Got the rulebook in hand and reading the stuff about power weapons. Dont see any 5++ as people have been talking about.
When it comes to power weapons you have to determine what kind of power weapon it is. The rule book says look at the model, if its a sword or dagger its a power sword. If its an ax or halbard its a power ax and if its a club or mace its a power maul. Listen below for convinence.

The issue here is that in your army list it still says power weapon. So you can make an army list, say guard and see what your opponent is playing and take out models accordingly. You are playing against orks, man I need some help wounding, take mauls. You are facing Deathwing, man I need the axes. You are facing Sisters and maybe it is best to go with swords. All are power weapons and so your list has not changed, only the models you took out of your case.


Sword S= AP3
Ax S+1 AP2 I1
Maul S+2 AP4

Well all in the name of selling more models. Now you need three times the models or weapon arms of magmatized.

Now this is the inevitable question, what about armies where older models have all kinds of crazy weapons. For example, I have a couple of these commissars.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warhammer-Imperial-Guard-Commissar-with-Axe-/310384538097?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item48445c31f1

Those are clearly axes these guys are toting, but will they really count as a power axe? I can see this being abused by modeling to advantage a bit for other armies, although I can't lie I'd much rather have power axes on my guardsmen than Power Swords, as that lets them hit as hard as a space marine, with only a slightly slower reaction time (whoop de doo, I swing the same time as orks )

MrMoustaffa wrote:Now this is the inevitable question, what about armies where older models have all kinds of crazy weapons. For example, I have a couple of these commissars.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warhammer-Imperial-Guard-Commissar-with-Axe-/310384538097?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item48445c31f1

Those are clearly axes these guys are toting, but will they really count as a power axe? I can see this being abused by modeling to advantage a bit for other armies, although I can't lie I'd much rather have power axes on my guardsmen than Power Swords, as that lets them hit as hard as a space marine, with only a slightly slower reaction time (whoop de doo, I swing the same time as orks )

that is a power axe if its a power weapon. If you want a sword you have to model a sword. The rules are the rules, even my dark eldar are going to have to start modeling up some power axes.

Thats kinda cool not gunna lie. Im sure these things (or their equivalents as i cannot see Eldar using power axes and mauls really push it too) will be fixed as the new codexes are released. So far the more i learn about 6th the more excited i get, cant wait to finally get my hands on the book in a couple days

It gets sticky in places though.

The power weapon from the Scourges box is a spear IIRC.

Will most likely be FAQd for things like the Dark Eldar spears.

In the case of Space Marines, I can imagine it being highly abused till you guys get your next update.

Sounds really stupid to me. There are lots of armies out there that have no access to axes or mauls in their kits at all. Eldar and Dark Eldar come to mind immediately. Seems like SM armies are going to have an advantage in terms of the diversity available to them in yet another way. I understand that most Xenos armies are fairly specialist, but it seems like in the face of no +2 saves and our basic power weapons not penetrating terminator armour the "special" part is being emphasized.

Howling Banshee exarch (old style model) has an axe, the new version has a 2-bladed staff/sword thing. It's kinda hard to see what's supposed to count as what until we see the FAQ.

Shandara wrote:Howling Banshee exarch (old style model) has an axe, the new version has a 2-bladed staff/sword thing. It's kinda hard to see what's supposed to count as what until we see the FAQ.

The Eldar codex says it count's as a power weapon that grants +2 strength. I'm thinking it will be FAQ'd as a sword though.

I'm thinking of the old incubi models with the axes: Their power weapons give an additional +1 S as well as being power weapons. Would this mean +2 S as if you give them swords instead they still get +1 S.

The newer codexes will have different upgrade costs, until then this could be abused quite a bit

p_gray99 wrote:I'm thinking of the old incubi models with the axes: Their power weapons give an additional +1 S as well as being power weapons. Would this mean +2 S as if you give them swords instead they still get +1 S.

I'm wondering the same thing, but with SW Frost Axes. Are these S6 now (S7 when mounted on a Thunderwolf)? As they also grant +1 S to the user.

OTOH it appears CSM Termies got the short end of the stick (again). Sucks to be you with all those Mauls.

Yeah, but I expect this will inspire quite a bit of conversion.

Actually there is only one maul in the csm term set, the rest are axes.
But looking at all the hype about power axes, are they that good? Don't they strike at the same time as power fists, being ini 1 and all?

AL-PiXeL01 wrote:Actually there is only one maul in the csm term set, the rest are axes.
But looking at all the hype about power axes, are they that good? Don't they strike at the same time as power fists, being ini 1 and all?

My thoughts exactly.. why take a power axe over a power fist in the first place?

Hmm, Vanguard veterans with power axes? Free I10 attack on the charge? Ooo....

Or banshees with axes... Who cares about I1? I'm I10 coz of masks xD

But, I think this could be cool. I think you should have to state what type the power weapon is in the list.

Von Chogg

Power axes may be lesser S power fists now, but they're 15pts cheaper, and if the rules are the same as 5th edition you can still get +1 attack for extra cc weapon with them, something you couldn't with power fists.

p_gray99 wrote:Power axes may be lesser S power fists now, but they're 15pts cheaper, and if the rules are the same as 5th edition you can still get +1 attack for extra cc weapon with them, something you couldn't with power fists.

In most SM codecies they're only 10 points cheaper. In my experience fists have usually been better than PW's in general on things like sergeants.

I wonder what this means for sanguinary guard.

Eidolon wrote:I wonder what this means for sanguinary guard.

The 2+ combined with the ability to take AP2 axes makes them veritable terminator killers (Thinking more Chaos Terminators and the like, going against regulars will pretty much see both sides wiping each other out, with the powerfists coming out on top in all likelihood), or pretty much anything with a 3+ or better save.

Also, the power axes could be used by armies without power fists e.g. eldar.

p_gray99 wrote:Also, the power axes could be used by armies without power fists e.g. eldar.

I believe the Eldar have a powerfist that the striking scorpion exarch can take, but that's about it. Could be useful for Dire Avengers and the like.

The more rules that were are seeing, the more 6th edition reminds me of 2nd edition. Woohoo for 2nd Ed reboot!

Never played 2nd but from what little I know, it does seem more like that. Even though they may have goofed up in a few places (they always do) this edition is by-and-large seeming a lot more fun and interesting than the current (or the last 3 in general).

May I ask how you got the rulebook so early?

Yeah, I was wondering that as well.

KrimsunBaron wrote:May I ask how you got the rulebook so early?

He got the collectors edition early??

MrMoustaffa wrote:Now this is the inevitable question, what about armies where older models have all kinds of crazy weapons. For example, I have a couple of these commissars.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warhammer-Imperial-Guard-Commissar-with-Axe-/310384538097?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item48445c31f1

Those are clearly axes these guys are toting, but will they really count as a power axe? I can see this being abused by modeling to advantage a bit for other armies, although I can't lie I'd much rather have power axes on my guardsmen than Power Swords, as that lets them hit as hard as a space marine, with only a slightly slower reaction time (whoop de doo, I swing the same time as orks )

I have one of them too. AP2 ccw and hand flamer ftw

The collectors edition was sold before the normal one? Or are you questioning how he did?
Sort of shows you didn't read the first post where he says he has rulebook in hand

KrimsunBaron wrote:The collectors edition was sold before the normal one? Or are you questioning how he did?
Sort of shows you didn't read the first post where he says he has rulebook in hand

He's asking how he got the rulebook so early.

A friend explained/confirmed rumours for me the other day because he went down to a GW and you can see the rulebook there. Might be how he's done it here, unless the pre-orders do get it early or something.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:A friend explained/confirmed rumours for me the other day because he went down to a GW and you can see the rulebook there. Might be how he's done it here, unless the pre-orders do get it early or something.

They mailed mine 2 days ago, so it's possible his got there early.

I got told that even if the book is in the building, I can't collect it until Saturday.

As for power weapons, what would the arm-spikes on a Warp Spider be?

Whichever you want, I expect

What benefits does the hand flamer give in the new edition? I have bunch I removed back in the day, would be cool to use them again

UMM d3 hits on snapfire or overwatch (not sure which) is pretty darn cool.

Von Chogg wrote:Hmm, Vanguard veterans with power axes? Free I10 attack on the charge? Ooo....

Or banshees with axes... Who cares about I1? I'm I10 coz of masks xD

But, I think this could be cool. I think you should have to state what type the power weapon is in the list.

Von Chogg

If axes follow the same rules as fists then you wouldn't be ini 10 as wargear cannot increase your ini (according to the 5th rulebook at least) so you have a swing at ini1 with s4 instead of s6 ... Axes will probably be two handed as well do no bonus for having a pistol.

So, except for the price, why not just use a fist!

Banshees can't get fists.


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p_gray99 wrote:Whichever you want, I expect

The leaks have said that undefined or unusual power weapons fall under Power Swords.

Ah, shame. Oh well. I'm sure you could green stuff some axes on there somehow

Grimtuff wrote:

p_gray99 wrote:I'm thinking of the old incubi models with the axes: Their power weapons give an additional +1 S as well as being power weapons. Would this mean +2 S as if you give them swords instead they still get +1 S.

I'm wondering the same thing, but with SW Frost Axes. Are these S6 now (S7 when mounted on a Thunderwolf)? As they also grant +1 S to the user.

OTOH it appears CSM Termies got the short end of the stick (again). Sucks to be you with all those Mauls.

False, only NORMAL power weapons can be axes, mauls or swords. Anything that is special, but also a power weapon is AP 3, with its own special rule

I don't think these changes will have an incredibly massive effect in-game. It might make us take a few different wargear choices, and play certain units more cautiously/use them different, but on the whole I expect this won't change much. Adds some nice flavour, though. Mind you that comes from an Meq point of view.

Grey Knight players will have a headache keeping track of all those weapons though.

wierd.,.. i liek the looks of axes better on my sang guard and when i put em together it was astetic... guess i'll be dissolving that superglue and magnetising now for options. cool that its new rules lame that its making them more expensive and in a sense nerfing them and upping the cost for the same functionality assuming it is true

This sudden differentiation of power-weaponry is incredibly annoying to me.

Despite my rank-descriptor, I usually play Marines. Back in the day when you simply had generic Power Weapon, Power Fist, Lightning Claw and THammer I made an aesthetic choice to replace all Power Weapons with things shaped like Axes - because the Axe is my DIY Chapter's symbol.

Now, by the rules, I'm stuck with with something that - while getting other buffs - strikes at I1. DO NOT WANT.

I am not changing any of my models because of this sudden shift in the rules - all my opponents are being told that an Axe = Sword. I might use the new Axe rules as a one-off item, but in these circumstances the model will have a differently colored blade to mark the difference.

I was planning on competing with this edition, but to avoid WYSIWYG problems I'll stick with friendly games.

I can understand how people who used to play Squats or Lost and the Damned feel.

/csb

Then that effectively means a SW with a frost axe is treated like it has a power sword with +1S... is this correct even though its an Axe type weapon?

EDIT: This seems a little haphazard to me... like they didn't actually think it through... they should have just made TWO different power weapons AP3 swords, AP2 +1S I1 Axes, feth mauls they are useless now. (being pretty much the only army that has them in any number is Chaos Space Marines... Terminators that effectively have a +2S ccw against MEQ armies) Plus to get into the logic of it a Maul is a heavier weapon than an Axe... if anything that should be the I1 weapon with +2S and AP2, Axes should just be +1S AP3 OR +2S AP2 two handed.... would that not be simpler?

Scott wrote:This sudden differentiation of power-weaponry is incredibly annoying to me.

Despite my rank-descriptor, I usually play Marines. Back in the day when you simply had generic Power Weapon, Power Fist, Lightning Claw and THammer I made an aesthetic choice to replace all Power Weapons with things shaped like Axes - because the Axe is my DIY Chapter's symbol.

I don't think you get to say back in the day if you're only referring to 5th edition. Different types of PW are an older part of 40k that is returning.

I am not changing any of my models because of this sudden shift in the rules - all my opponents are being told that an Axe = Sword. I might use the new Axe rules as a one-off item, but in these circumstances the model will have a differently colored blade to mark the difference.

Umm. Hope you're only playing friendly games. Again though, having to change models is part of edition and codex change. I have had to change my armies many times over the years, snipping off bits or buying new units to accomodate changes. It is part of the game.

I can understand how people who used to play Squats or Lost and the Damned feel.

Really, no you can't. You're complaining about having to change some wargear, which is a simple swap. They had to change their entire army. Complete lack of perspective.

Frankly I'm just wondering where the thought process for axes being I1 came from.

Take Khorne Berzerkers with their rather unfriendly chain axes. They're swinging away at I5 on the charge, and I'm inclined to believe that a chainaxe isn't going to be much heavier or more cumbersome than a power axe. Especially not in the hands of the superhumanly fast and strong astartes. They should've done something along the lines of axe gives AP2 but is two-handed, forgoing the reduced initiative and increased strength altogether - that's powerfist/thunder hammer territory.

Also, what does this mean for beatsticks like Draigo (and GK's in general)? Force weapons are power weapons first and foremost, so they'll generally be AP3 unless force weapon's get some other AP bonus. That's going to hurt Draigowing forces if they find themselves against units such as Terminators + Lysander (I have a feeling that unit will be an effective anti-deathstar unit in this edition) if they can't even touch 2+.

It'll be interesting what errata SW Frost Axes/Frost Swords get. According to the rulebook, they count as power weapons but grant the bearer +1 S without any Initiative penalty. They cost a few points more than regular power weapons too. Will those stats stay the same? Will they count as Power Axes that strike at normal Initiative? Power Swords with an AP buff? Will stats for a Frost Maul be released?

this his to be the most stupid rule for 6th ed I've seen so far -.-

my slaanesh termies have power whips.......what the hell am I supposed to do now :/

all my deathguard champs have scyths....again......what do I count these as?

serioulsy......who ever thought this was a good idea for a rule?

StoneRaizer wrote:It'll be interesting what errata SW Frost Axes/Frost Swords get. According to the rulebook, they count as power weapons but grant the bearer +1 S without any Initiative penalty. They cost a few points more than regular power weapons too. Will those stats stay the same? Will they count as Power Axes that strike at normal Initiative? Power Swords with an AP buff? Will stats for a Frost Maul be released?

They'll probably be ruled as "Unique by own codex rules" AP3.

Whatever they rule on special power weapons, all i know is I'm going to round up my dozens of Terminators and wreck havoc against higher initiative PW squads that previously would've cut them apart.

Terminator heavy armies.. they get to be awesome again. (Dark Angels notwithstanding)

DPBellathrom wrote:this his to be the most stupid rule for 6th ed I've seen so far -.-

my slaanesh termies have power whips.......what the hell am I supposed to do now :/

all my deathguard champs have scyths....again......what do I count these as?

serioulsy......who ever thought this was a good idea for a rule?

Again, weapons that don't fall into Axe/Maul/Sword fall under Sword. So your whips and scythes? Swords. Unless you want to 'Counts As' them.

Deep breaths.

The power maul hasn't had much discussion. Do people feel it's a "meh" option because of the abundance of Meq, making it a niche weapon?

I sure know I'll be finding that one power maul I have lying around and assembling myself a brand new SM captain and a couple squads to kick-start my Storm Lords at some point.

Also, I think the maul makes the vanilla SM Relic Blade obsolete. Sure, the Relic blade has AP3.. but it's two-handed and costs 15 extra points over the maul, when effectively they do the same thing.. +2 strength PW.

Relic blade will definitely still have a place. AP3 is a big deal. I think it will be good in squads where there are a mix of power weapons for some transport power.

For example, I may put one or two in my battle conclave so I can do something about transports and walkers.

DPBellathrom wrote:this his to be the most stupid rule for 6th ed I've seen so far -.-

my slaanesh termies have power whips.......what the hell am I supposed to do now :/

all my deathguard champs have scyths....again......what do I count these as?

serioulsy......who ever thought this was a good idea for a rule?

I believe these rules may come from Matt Ward, I'm not bashing the guy I just think it comes from him being as he is the biggest 2nd Ed fan on the development and design team. Back then standard space marines came under an 'Ultramarine codex' a lot like the current codex being 'Ultramarines and friends' which makes me think a lot of inspiration is taken from 2nd Ed...

pretre wrote:Relic blade will definitely still have a place. AP3 is a big deal. I think it will be good in squads where there are a mix of power weapons for some transport power.

For example, I may put one or two in my battle conclave so I can do something about transports and walkers.

Dunno Pretre.. relic blade captains aren't even that good, when there are units/special characters that are far better beatsticks. At most, the captain can augment an assault/terminator squad adding some more wounds and extra attacks. That and grant command squads for special weapon fun.

Also, captains can only specifically take power swords.. hoping this gets errata'd to any power weapon.. if not, then the relic blade retains its value.

Also.. I'm not looking forward to necron lychguard. They were a pain before, but now they get +1 strength and have their meagre I2 reduced by 1 as a pay-off?

JbR of the Endless Spire wrote:

DPBellathrom wrote:this his to be the most stupid rule for 6th ed I've seen so far -.-

my slaanesh termies have power whips.......what the hell am I supposed to do now :/

all my deathguard champs have scyths....again......what do I count these as?

serioulsy......who ever thought this was a good idea for a rule?

I believe these rules may come from Matt Ward, I'm not bashing the guy I just think it comes from him being as he is the biggest 2nd Ed fan on the development and design team. Back then standard space marines came under an 'Ultramarine codex' a lot like the current codex being 'Ultramarines and friends' which makes me think a lot of inspiration is taken from 2nd Ed...

Really now, are you people going to chalk everything up to him? Seriously? Do I need a water bottle to spritz you folk as soon as you come out with theories like this?

JbR of the Endless Spire wrote:I believe these rules may come from Matt Ward, I'm not bashing the guy I just think it comes from him being as he is the biggest 2nd Ed fan on the development and design team. Back then standard space marines came under an 'Ultramarine codex' a lot like the current codex being 'Ultramarines and friends' which makes me think a lot of inspiration is taken from 2nd Ed...

Except, as proven previously, the newest C:SM has the least percentage of Ultramarine pages and least percentage of UM characters to all the previous editions, including C: Ultramarines, iirc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

pretre wrote:Relic blade will definitely still have a place. AP3 is a big deal. I think it will be good in squads where there are a mix of power weapons for some transport power.

For example, I may put one or two in my battle conclave so I can do something about transports and walkers.

Dunno Pretre.. relic blade captains aren't even that good, when there are units/special characters that are far better beatsticks. At most, the captain can augment an assault/terminator squad adding some more wounds and extra attacks. That and grant command squads for special weapon fun.

Also, captains can only specifically take power swords.. hoping this gets errata'd to any power weapon.. if not, then the relic blade retains its value.

Also.. I'm not looking forward to necron lychguard. They were a pain before, but now they get +1 strength and have their meagre I2 reduced by 1 as a pay-off?

Relic Blades generally only see use on Vulkan and Bike Captains, but yeah.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:A friend explained/confirmed rumours for me the other day because he went down to a GW and you can see the rulebook there. Might be how he's done it here, unless the pre-orders do get it early or something.

was at my local GW posting with my phone...

pretre wrote:

DPBellathrom wrote:this his to be the most stupid rule for 6th ed I've seen so far -.-

my slaanesh termies have power whips.......what the hell am I supposed to do now :/

all my deathguard champs have scyths....again......what do I count these as?

serioulsy......who ever thought this was a good idea for a rule?

Again, weapons that don't fall into Axe/Maul/Sword fall under Sword. So your whips and scythes? Swords. Unless you want to 'Counts As' them.

Deep breaths.

so my whips count as swords......yay for logic :3 but really I cant see why these rules were necessary in the first place. and also, an axe makes you I1 :? I thought the rule for this sort of thing was and axe swingsslower than a sword and a maul swings slower than an axe. -1I would have been better.....and AP4 for a maul is just wrong

AL-PiXeL01 wrote:

Von Chogg wrote:Hmm, Vanguard veterans with power axes? Free I10 attack on the charge? Ooo....

Or banshees with axes... Who cares about I1? I'm I10 coz of masks xD

But, I think this could be cool. I think you should have to state what type the power weapon is in the list.

Von Chogg

If axes follow the same rules as fists then you wouldn't be ini 10 as wargear cannot increase your ini (according to the 5th rulebook at least) so you have a swing at ini1 with s4 instead of s6 ... Axes will probably be two handed as well do no bonus for having a pistol.

So, except for the price, why not just use a fist!

power axes are single handed, can be used with a pistol, +1str and init 1

DPBellathrom wrote:so my whips count as swords......yay for logic :3 but really I cant see why these rules were necessary in the first place. and also, an axe makes you I1 :? I thought the rule for this sort of thing was and axe swingsslower than a sword and a maul swings slower than an axe. -1I would have been better.....and AP4 for a maul is just wrong

You're thinking of Skyrim. lol

Why is it wrong? Blunt weapons do not penetrate armor, they crush things on the other side of the armor. Hence, lower AP and higher strength. Axes, on the other hand, cut through armor, but are slower to swing. Makes sense to me.

DPBellathrom wrote:

pretre wrote:

DPBellathrom wrote:this his to be the most stupid rule for 6th ed I've seen so far -.-

my slaanesh termies have power whips.......what the hell am I supposed to do now :/

all my deathguard champs have scyths....again......what do I count these as?

serioulsy......who ever thought this was a good idea for a rule?

Again, weapons that don't fall into Axe/Maul/Sword fall under Sword. So your whips and scythes? Swords. Unless you want to 'Counts As' them.

Deep breaths.

so my whips count as swords......yay for logic :3 but really I cant see why these rules were necessary in the first place. and also, an axe makes you I1 :? I thought the rule for this sort of thing was and axe swingsslower than a sword and a maul swings slower than an axe. -1I would have been better.....and AP4 for a maul is just wrong

It is a bit messed up, honestly if they were going to do this they should've gone the full way and detailed every type of weapon (normal or otherwise) and just done a few pages on it. But this will likely have about half a page dedicated to it, and no more.

Mace seems fine to me, as it doesn't sheer through armour; rather it relies on repetitive, heavy blows to take down its target. Essentially the bridge between bog standard CCW's and thunder hammers.

Axe I1 is meh.. but I don't think it'll be as detrimental as many of us think.

pretre wrote:

DPBellathrom wrote:so my whips count as swords......yay for logic :3 but really I cant see why these rules were necessary in the first place. and also, an axe makes you I1 :? I thought the rule for this sort of thing was and axe swingsslower than a sword and a maul swings slower than an axe. -1I would have been better.....and AP4 for a maul is just wrong

You're thinking of Skyrim. lol

Why is it wrong? Blunt weapons do not penetrate armor, they crush things on the other side of the armor. Hence, lower AP and higher strength. Axes, on the other hand, cut through armor, but are slower to swing. Makes sense to me.

Ninja'd me..

Still, axes should have definitely had AP2 but only -1 initiative, -2 at a painful stretch. But right down to I1 just makes it redundant next to the powerfist for me. I'll gladly pay the 10 points for Sx2 over just +2.

I thought the power axe was MINUS 1 Initiative, Not reduced to initiative 1. For example, If you gave it to an IG sargeant, he would go from I3, to I 2.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:It is a bit messed up, honestly if they were going to do this they should've gone the full way and detailed every type of weapon (normal or otherwise) and just done a few pages on it. But this will likely have about half a page dedicated to it, and no more.

Mace seems fine to me, as it doesn't sheer through armour; rather it relies on repetitive, heavy blows to take down its target. Essentially the bridge between bog standard CCW's and thunder hammers.

Axe I1 is meh.. but I don't think it'll be as detrimental as many of us think.

A few pages of types of power weapons? Geeze. Let's keep it somewhat simple.

Still, axes should have definitely had AP2 but only -1 initiative, -2 at a painful stretch. But right down to I1 just makes it redundant next to the powerfist for me. I'll gladly pay the 10 points for S8 over just +2.

AP2 is really good though. It has the advantage of +1 attack over a power fist as well.

MrMoustaffa wrote:I thought the power axe was MINUS 1 Initiative, Not reduced to initiative 1. For example, If you gave it to an IG sargeant, he would go from I3, to I 2.

Sadly not, seems axe wielders suddenly attack with the speed of a building.

pretre wrote:

DPBellathrom wrote:so my whips count as swords......yay for logic :3 but really I cant see why these rules were necessary in the first place. and also, an axe makes you I1 :? I thought the rule for this sort of thing was and axe swingsslower than a sword and a maul swings slower than an axe. -1I would have been better.....and AP4 for a maul is just wrong

You're thinking of Skyrim. lol

Why is it wrong? Blunt weapons do not penetrate armor, they crush things on the other side of the armor. Hence, lower AP and higher strength. Axes, on the other hand, cut through armor, but are slower to swing. Makes sense to me.

yeah I was but its true.....sort of :3

but I1 rather than -1I really makes no sense to me for the axe. also for blunt weapons I was thinking it would just smash through the armour and cause plenty of damage on what was inside too :/ that being said I suppose tau armour is easyer to smash through than power armour.

some kind of WFB str VS save modifyer would have been more appropriate IMO

MrMoustaffa wrote:I thought the power axe was MINUS 1 Initiative, Not reduced to initiative 1. For example, If you gave it to an IG sargeant, he would go from I3, to I 2.

It might be. Hard to say without the book.

pretre wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:It is a bit messed up, honestly if they were going to do this they should've gone the full way and detailed every type of weapon (normal or otherwise) and just done a few pages on it. But this will likely have about half a page dedicated to it, and no more.

Mace seems fine to me, as it doesn't sheer through armour; rather it relies on repetitive, heavy blows to take down its target. Essentially the bridge between bog standard CCW's and thunder hammers.

Axe I1 is meh.. but I don't think it'll be as detrimental as many of us think.

A few pages of types of power weapons? Geeze. Let's keep it somewhat simple.

I meant normal CCW's as well, as they'd invariably have to have some sort of different effect with axe/sword/mace system due to lack of AP. Or perhaps axes would have AP5, swords AP6 and mace's just +2S. It could work.

Still, axes should have definitely had AP2 but only -1 initiative, -2 at a painful stretch. But right down to I1 just makes it redundant next to the powerfist for me. I'll gladly pay the 10 points for S8 over just +2.

AP2 is really good though. It has the advantage of +1 attack over a power fist as well.

You're right, but a powerfist is more multi-purpose as it can go tank hunting and frankly that +1S means nothing on most units if you get stuck against a MC or dreadnought.

pretre wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:It is a bit messed up, honestly if they were going to do this they should've gone the full way and detailed every type of weapon (normal or otherwise) and just done a few pages on it. But this will likely have about half a page dedicated to it, and no more.

Mace seems fine to me, as it doesn't sheer through armour; rather it relies on repetitive, heavy blows to take down its target. Essentially the bridge between bog standard CCW's and thunder hammers.

Axe I1 is meh.. but I don't think it'll be as detrimental as many of us think.

A few pages of types of power weapons? Geeze. Let's keep it somewhat simple.

Still, axes should have definitely had AP2 but only -1 initiative, -2 at a painful stretch. But right down to I1 just makes it redundant next to the powerfist for me. I'll gladly pay the 10 points for S8 over just +2.

AP2 is really good though. It has the advantage of +1 attack over a power fist as well.

I dunno, WFB has 2 pages of weapons and it works fine for me :3 less confusion and more interesting rules

To the OP with book... does the new shiny say anything about power weapons with rules already stated in the codex?

Example GK weapons, force weapons in general, etc?

It would seem 'odd' to me if say a sergent could previously buy a power weapon... but now can buy a power weapon / axe / maul all for the same cost, and the modeling of the weapon is the only distinguishing element. If that is the case, I can see a lot of "counts as" discussions in our local group.

Luckily, I don't play any of the big tourny's anymore... so I won't be changing swords for axes, or mauls or tripling up models to have the different options anytime soon. I'm thankful to have a group of gamers for many years that are all the same mindset in the area.

Cheers,

pretre wrote:

MrMoustaffa wrote:I thought the power axe was MINUS 1 Initiative, Not reduced to initiative 1. For example, If you gave it to an IG sargeant, he would go from I3, to I 2.

It might be. Hard to say without the book.

I'm pretty sure it was confirmed I1, but if it's just -1I then that'd be brilliant.

Non-standard power weapons are generally considered Power Swords unless stated otherwise.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

pretre wrote:

MrMoustaffa wrote:I thought the power axe was MINUS 1 Initiative, Not reduced to initiative 1. For example, If you gave it to an IG sargeant, he would go from I3, to I 2.

It might be. Hard to say without the book.

I'm pretty sure it was confirmed I1, but if it's just -1I then that'd be brilliant.

if it is I'll be happy, but like you said I1 and +2str < I1 x2 str :/

Darkvoidof40k wrote:The power maul hasn't had much discussion. Do people feel it's a "meh" option because of the abundance of Meq, making it a niche weapon?

I sure know I'll be finding that one power maul I have lying around and assembling myself a brand new SM captain and a couple squads to kick-start my Storm Lords at some point.

Also, I think the maul makes the vanilla SM Relic Blade obsolete. Sure, the Relic blade has AP3.. but it's two-handed and costs 15 extra points over the maul, when effectively they do the same thing.. +2 strength PW.

again my point is that you can swap out mauls for axes or swords without tailoring your list. Your list says a power weapon and then you bring out a model and you "look at the model" to determine what kind of power weapon they have. So as you see your opponent pull out his guard you can get as many power mauls as you want for wounding on 2s.

I'm sure they will be correcting a lot of things via FAQ/erratas and whatnot. For example a Nemesis force sword would be ap3 striking at regular initiative and give +1 to invul save in cc. Now lets look at the halberd.. wait no boost to invul save and essentially -1 initiative... well that seems a bit silly. I'm hoping this gets fixed in a fairly timely manner. I didn't model my TDA units differently for wound shinanigans but I did use mostly halberds for the I6. If it stands that they must stay at I3 There will be a whole lot of unhappy GK players out there.

Exergy wrote:again my point is that you can swap out mauls for axes or swords without tailoring your list. Your list says a power weapon and then you bring out a model and you "look at the model" to determine what kind of power weapon they have. So as you see your opponent pull out his guard you can get as many power mauls as you want for wounding on 2s.

Umm. No. You can't do that. You would need to specify in your list all the wargear you are taking. Not to mention that if your model has a maul, it is a maul.

i heard anything can be wounded by anything now, does that mean grots could beat a bio-titan to death!!??

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

pretre wrote:

MrMoustaffa wrote:I thought the power axe was MINUS 1 Initiative, Not reduced to initiative 1. For example, If you gave it to an IG sargeant, he would go from I3, to I 2.

It might be. Hard to say without the book.

I'm pretty sure it was confirmed I1, but if it's just -1I then that'd be brilliant.

its init 1. It has the same "unwieldy rule" as a powerfist but lacks its "specialist weapon rule"
unwieldy makes you init 1
specialist means you only get +1 attack from having 2.

Exergy wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:The power maul hasn't had much discussion. Do people feel it's a "meh" option because of the abundance of Meq, making it a niche weapon?

I sure know I'll be finding that one power maul I have lying around and assembling myself a brand new SM captain and a couple squads to kick-start my Storm Lords at some point.

Also, I think the maul makes the vanilla SM Relic Blade obsolete. Sure, the Relic blade has AP3.. but it's two-handed and costs 15 extra points over the maul, when effectively they do the same thing.. +2 strength PW.

again my point is that you can swap out mauls for axes or swords without tailoring your list. Your list says a power weapon and then you bring out a model and you "look at the model" to determine what kind of power weapon they have. So as you see your opponent pull out his guard you can get as many power mauls as you want for wounding on 2s.

Bad sportsmanship, right there.

What Petre said, too.

lukyboi wrote:i heard anything can be wounded by anything now, does that mean grots could beat a bio-titan to death!!??

That's not correct. The wound chart is the same.

pretre wrote:

Exergy wrote:again my point is that you can swap out mauls for axes or swords without tailoring your list. Your list says a power weapon and then you bring out a model and you "look at the model" to determine what kind of power weapon they have. So as you see your opponent pull out his guard you can get as many power mauls as you want for wounding on 2s.

Umm. No. You can't do that. You would need to specify in your list all the wargear you are taking. Not to mention that if your model has a maul, it is a maul.

in your list it's a power weapon.

lukyboi wrote:i heard anything can be wounded by anything now, does that mean grots could beat a bio-titan to death!!??

I don't think you're in the right thread for that question...

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

Exergy wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:The power maul hasn't had much discussion. Do people feel it's a "meh" option because of the abundance of Meq, making it a niche weapon?

I sure know I'll be finding that one power maul I have lying around and assembling myself a brand new SM captain and a couple squads to kick-start my Storm Lords at some point.

Also, I think the maul makes the vanilla SM Relic Blade obsolete. Sure, the Relic blade has AP3.. but it's two-handed and costs 15 extra points over the maul, when effectively they do the same thing.. +2 strength PW.

again my point is that you can swap out mauls for axes or swords without tailoring your list. Your list says a power weapon and then you bring out a model and you "look at the model" to determine what kind of power weapon they have. So as you see your opponent pull out his guard you can get as many power mauls as you want for wounding on 2s.

Bad sportsmanship, right there.

What Petre said, too.

100% agree on the bad sportsmanship, but im just bringing this up. Hope it gets FAQed soon.

lukyboi wrote:i heard anything can be wounded by anything now, does that mean grots could beat a bio-titan to death!!??

Technically yes, a to-wound roll of 6 wounds automatically.. I believe that was in previous editions as well. Not the worst but not the most sensible rule.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

lukyboi wrote:i heard anything can be wounded by anything now, does that mean grots could beat a bio-titan to death!!??

Technically yes, a to-wound roll of 6 wounds automatically.. I believe that was in previous editions as well. Not the worst but not the most sensible rule.

nope changed in WHFB 8th. Rending always wounded on a 6 but it use to be that a wraithlord could walk through anything with str4 or less.

Exergy wrote:in your list it's a power weapon.

Not in 6th edition, it isn't. Pretty sure it says if it isn't specified, it is a sword. Pretty sure if you want to take a maul or axe, you need to specifiy in your list. Again, we have to wait for the book, but good luck getting away with that.

Also, are you going to magnetize your guys so you can swap the weapons when you see what your opponent is playing?

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

lukyboi wrote:i heard anything can be wounded by anything now, does that mean grots could beat a bio-titan to death!!??

Technically yes, a to-wound roll of 6 wounds automatically.. I believe that was in previous editions as well. Not the worst but not the most sensible rule.

Umm. Just going to leave this here:

(removed the pic, but a couple of you saw it so know that there is still a to-wound chart and it doesn't allow you to do that)

pretre wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

lukyboi wrote:i heard anything can be wounded by anything now, does that mean grots could beat a bio-titan to death!!??

Technically yes, a to-wound roll of 6 wounds automatically.. I believe that was in previous editions as well. Not the worst but not the most sensible rule.

Umm. Just going to leave this here:

thank god for that, the idea of a grot being able to kill my wraith lord would have been the last straw :3

Exergy wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

lukyboi wrote:i heard anything can be wounded by anything now, does that mean grots could beat a bio-titan to death!!??

Technically yes, a to-wound roll of 6 wounds automatically.. I believe that was in previous editions as well. Not the worst but not the most sensible rule.

nope changed in WHFB 8th. Rending always wounded on a 6 but it use to be that a wraithlord could walk through anything with str4 or less.

Not sure what WHFB has to do with this.

pretre wrote:

Exergy wrote:in your list it's a power weapon.

Not in 6th edition, it isn't. Pretty sure it says if it isn't specified, it is a sword. Pretty sure if you want to take a maul or axe, you need to specifiy in your list. Again, we have to wait for the book, but good luck getting away with that.

Also, are you going to magnetize your guys so you can swap the weapons when you see what your opponent is playing?

Likely not, as I have never magnetized before. Though if I had the know-how I'd consider it depending on the unit.

pretre wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

lukyboi wrote:i heard anything can be wounded by anything now, does that mean grots could beat a bio-titan to death!!??

Technically yes, a to-wound roll of 6 wounds automatically.. I believe that was in previous editions as well. Not the worst but not the most sensible rule.

Umm. Just going to leave this here:

Guess I was wrong. Was going off a rumour I read the other day.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:Guess I was wrong. Was going off a rumour I read the other day.

Remember, deep breaths and don't count on anything until the book is in your hand and the FAQ is out.

pretre wrote:

Exergy wrote:in your list it's a power weapon.

Not in 6th edition, it isn't. Pretty sure it says if it isn't specified, it is a sword. Pretty sure if you want to take a maul or axe, you need to specifiy in your list. Again, we have to wait for the book, but good luck getting away with that.

Also, are you going to magnetize your guys so you can swap the weapons when you see what your opponent is playing?

I play DE and am getting out of the agonizer/power weapon business all together and calling all my greeny special ccw venom blades until I figure out what to do. If I wanted to do the PW thing, I have more than enough models to pull out whatever I like.

pretre wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:Guess I was wrong. Was going off a rumour I read the other day.

Remember, deep breaths and don't count on anything until the book is in your hand and the FAQ is out.

Problem for me is I won't be buying the BRB, too expensive for me. I'm stuck waiting for september for the starter set(s) to be released, in which case I'll be picking up the chaos one to get models and the small rulebook. If they only do one set and put the DA in there too, well, I'll be ecstatic.

$75 for 4 years of entertainment is too expensive? Might be in the wrong hobby.

pretre wrote:$75 for 4 years of entertainment is too expensive? Might be in the wrong hobby.

£45 for me.. and although I could walk out the house and buy it right now, I've yet to buy a BRB over 3 editions. This hobby's expensive enough without paying the same for a book that I can get with a whole bunch of minis as well.

He has a point. £45 for the book OR £65 for the book and the models and the templates and the dice and some objective markers and all the other jazz too... PLUS you can sell the other army on Ebay...

JbR of the Endless Spire wrote:He has a point. £45 for the book OR £65 for the book and the models and the templates and the dice and some objective markers and all the other jazz too... PLUS you can sell the other army on Ebay...

Not to mention when AoBR came out it was £40, and £30 on sites like Weyland games.

I'm presuming that in September they'll stick to form and start off with the starter sets at a low price, then they'll take a hike up the expense mountain.

Really hoping they just do one set, after all I can't see how anyone could learn from the starter set with just one army. Unless they try and force you to buy both, but I doubt that'd be very successful.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

pretre wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:Guess I was wrong. Was going off a rumour I read the other day.

Remember, deep breaths and don't count on anything until the book is in your hand and the FAQ is out.

Problem for me is I won't be buying the BRB, too expensive for me. I'm stuck waiting for september for the starter set(s) to be released, in which case I'll be picking up the chaos one to get models and the small rulebook. If they only do one set and put the DA in there too, well, I'll be ecstatic.

im waiting for the starter set too. if there are cultists in there and they look anything like my imagination I am going to be fielding an entire army of them and so am going to be buying a TON of them.

pretre wrote:useless nonsense somehow related to my post

You assume too much. Learn to read.

@Scott: Umm. No idea what point you're actually referring to. You might want to work on the quoting and paraphrasing bit of your posts.

One thing I have to question about is the whole Chaos don't have Thunder Hammers or shields of any kind. Why is this? TH/SS was around before the heresy as was man portable Pcannons (though in VERY limited number) so why is it that chaos can't take them? Or just come up with an equivalent... Maul = Hammer rather than getting its own set of rules.

EDIT: I get that they are trying to differentiate the two armies, but surely they could just do something like a SW codex or BA codex for chaos. A debased version of the original codex with added chaos specific units and removed Loyalist specific units (such as vanguard and sternguards). Like how SW can get thunderwolves and BA deathcompany, instead put in possessed, cultists, chosen etc. change the names and tweak the rules for certain loyalist items etc. Simples.

Exergy wrote:Got the rulebook in hand and reading the stuff about power weapons. Dont see any 5++ as people have been talking about.
When it comes to power weapons you have to determine what kind of power weapon it is. The rule book says look at the model, if its a sword or dagger its a power sword. If its an ax or halbard its a power ax and if its a club or mace its a power maul. Listen below for convinence.

The issue here is that in your army list it still says power weapon. So you can make an army list, say guard and see what your opponent is playing and take out models accordingly. You are playing against orks, man I need some help wounding, take mauls. You are facing Deathwing, man I need the axes. You are facing Sisters and maybe it is best to go with swords. All are power weapons and so your list has not changed, only the models you took out of your case.


Sword S= AP3
Ax S+1 AP2 I1
Maul S+2 AP4

I dont know what all the complaining is about (directed to the whiners, not OP). Anything that adds a little more variety and variation into the game is fine by me. I saw the dumming down of weapons and power weaponry as something that made the game more dull.

Just to reiterate that this is a throw back to 2nd Edition I dug out my 2nd ed. reference card. Lets take a look shall we:

Any SWORD type weapon, gave you a parry (opponent rerolls one die to hit, against you.) not sure if P-Swords give you a 5+ invuln, but would be similar.
Power Axe - str 6, -3 save mod (if used 2 handed) OR str 5, -2 save mod (one handed use)
Power Fist - str 8, -5 save mod, NO INITIATIVE NEGATIVE (Hail to the king baby!)
Power Maul - Str 5, -3 save mod
Power Sword - Str 5, -3 Save mod, gives you a PARRY

just for comparison's sake, chainswords use to be a str 4, -1 save mod, and PARRY. made it worth it to give to a guardsman
Also in 2nd Pistols could be used in CC, so you give your space marine SRG a chainsword and plasma pistol, he hit at str 6 in combat, got a parry and NO GETS HOT.

Back in the day you either took a P-Fist or a P-Sword, Axes were used as a rarity (i had a couple Death co with them) NO ONE TOOK MAULS, unless you were a fool (no parry, and i think the same point cost as a p-sword, or very close)

So I see a lot of the same kinds of things being brought back in a more streamlined fashion.

I like!


lol now looking back, i forgot about long and short ranges, Ogryn's Ripper gun, short range 0-6 inches AUTO HIT lol

man I miss 2nd ed, gonna have to go back and find someone to play some small games with. The game was literally HERO HAMMER. my space marine capt kills your entire team, game over lol.

the thing that gets me is that larger games will now take a lot longer to play with all this added complexity

JbR of the Endless Spire wrote:One thing I have to question about is the whole Chaos don't have Thunder Hammers or shields of any kind. Why is this? TH/SS was around before the heresy as was man portable Pcannons (though in VERY limited number) so why is it that chaos can't take them? Or just come up with an equivalent... Maul = Hammer rather than getting its own set of rules.

EDIT: I get that they are trying to differentiate the two armies, but surely they could just do something like a SW codex or BA codex for chaos. A debased version of the original codex with added chaos specific units and removed Loyalist specific units (such as vanguard and sternguards). Like how SW can get thunderwolves and BA deathcompany, instead put in possessed, cultists, chosen etc. change the names and tweak the rules for certain loyalist items etc. Simples.

Simply put.. the current chaos codex is trash. It's still a competitive army book.. but it's just not chaos. In the 3rd ed codex they didn't have that stuff still, but there were a lot of other awesome things to off-set that.. such as daemonic gifts (I am a BIG fan of these), legion rules and such.

TheLionOfTheForest wrote:

Exergy wrote:Got the rulebook in hand and reading the stuff about power weapons. Dont see any 5++ as people have been talking about.
When it comes to power weapons you have to determine what kind of power weapon it is. The rule book says look at the model, if its a sword or dagger its a power sword. If its an ax or halbard its a power ax and if its a club or mace its a power maul. Listen below for convinence.

The issue here is that in your army list it still says power weapon. So you can make an army list, say guard and see what your opponent is playing and take out models accordingly. You are playing against orks, man I need some help wounding, take mauls. You are facing Deathwing, man I need the axes. You are facing Sisters and maybe it is best to go with swords. All are power weapons and so your list has not changed, only the models you took out of your case.


Sword S= AP3
Ax S+1 AP2 I1
Maul S+2 AP4

I dont know what all the complaining is about (directed to the whiners, not OP). Anything that adds a little more variety and variation into the game is fine by me. I saw the dumming down of weapons and power weaponry as something that made the game more dull.

Just to reiterate that this is a throw back to 2nd Edition I dug out my 2nd ed. reference card. Lets take a look shall we:

Any SWORD type weapon, gave you a parry (opponent rerolls one die to hit, against you.) not sure if P-Swords give you a 5+ invuln, but would be similar.
Power Axe - str 6, -3 save mod (if used 2 handed) OR str 5, -2 save mod (one handed use)
Power Fist - str 8, -5 save mod, NO INITIATIVE NEGATIVE (Hail to the king baby!)
Power Maul - Str 5, -3 save mod
Power Sword - Str 5, -3 Save mod, gives you a PARRY

just for comparison's sake, chainswords use to be a str 4, -1 save mod, and PARRY. made it worth it to give to a guardsman
Also in 2nd Pistols could be used in CC, so you give your space marine SRG a chainsword and plasma pistol, he hit at str 6 in combat, got a parry and NO GETS HOT.

Back in the day you either took a P-Fist or a P-Sword, Axes were used as a rarity (i had a couple Death co with them) NO ONE TOOK MAULS, unless you were a fool (no parry, and i think the same point cost as a p-sword, or very close)

So I see a lot of the same kinds of things being brought back in a more streamlined fashion.

I like!


lol now looking back, i forgot about long and short ranges, Ogryn's Ripper gun, short range 0-6 inches AUTO HIT lol

man I miss 2nd ed, gonna have to go back and find someone to play some small games with. The game was literally HERO HAMMER. my space marine capt kills your entire team, game over lol.

Heh.. haven't seen 2nd ed rules before but those seem pretty similar to Necromunda, if it's anything like that then I'd love to give it a go. Is there anywhere to get the rules? Preferably a PDF.

lukyboi wrote:the thing that gets me is that larger games will now take a lot longer to play with all this added complexity

It's not that much more complex.. besides, anything over 2000 always took quite awhile, unless you're some sort of fast tournament player.

but i have no self restraint!

i start setting up on a 6x4 table, and suddenly its full of tanks!

seroiusly though, its hard enough keeping track of who ran, who moved, and who shot without adding in having to remember to alter profiles for different power weapons and suchlike

Pen and paper is your friend.

You just need 3 different models for the guy in question, or magnets.

But GW will probably clarify that you need to write what the weapon is down in your army list.

lukyboi wrote:but i have no self restraint!

i start setting up on a 6x4 table, and suddenly its full of tanks!

seroiusly though, its hard enough keeping track of who ran, who moved, and who shot without adding in having to remember to alter profiles for different power weapons and suchlike

Honestly invest in an extra set of dice devise a system that tellwho did what so you can remember.

They have squad markers in the boxed sets probably. Just to make noting squad actions easier I suspect.

EDIT: also try ebay there are places you can buy sets of markers for your army. Like a run marker, hiding marker etc.

There are lots of 3rd party markers avaliable for real cheap.

The quote I was looking for.

"A Powerweapon is either a powersword, a poweraxe, a powermace or a powerlance depending on what the model seem's to be equipped with. If the rules state that your model wields a powerweapon, bend down and inspect your model - if it seems to be fielding a club, it's a powermace, if it wields a spear, it's a powerlance"

lukyboi wrote:the thing that gets me is that larger games will now take a lot longer to play with all this added complexity

Not really. Things will be dying much quicker, especially since cover saves are getting universally lowered.

yeah, I think 6th will be geared to faster gameplay. Which encourages bigger games, which encourages you to buy more models.

kinda like 8th edition for Fantesy. The rules encourage a bigger game because of the ease of playing with bigger units.


A shrewd marketing plan by GW while also catering to people who already have huge model collections. My armored company playing friend will be happy he can fit all of his LRBTs in a legal list.

How does this work with staffs?????
Or a chaplains force weapon.

Those will have +2Str and be AP4.

hotsauceman1 wrote:How does this work with staffs?????
Or a chaplains force weapon.

It's covered in the book. And chaplains don't have FW.

Typo
But thanks. one more day, i cant wait. im taking a 2 hour bus ride to get it.

I for one will not be changing my models around for this. I will print out my list in sheet form for my competitor, and it will tell them what the models have. I play mainly with friends, but even outside of that unless I'm going to a hardcore tournament I think they would understand...I don't want my Banshees to have anything other than a Power Sword.

Exergy wrote:The quote I was looking for.

"A Powerweapon is either a powersword, a poweraxe, a powermace or a powerlance depending on what the model seem's to be equipped with. If the rules state that your model wields a powerweapon, bend down and inspect your model - if it seems to be fielding a club, it's a powermace, if it wields a spear, it's a powerlance"

What's this powerlance?

See Shining Spears and Autharchs for Powerlances.

Ah, I'm guessing AP3 and +2 or +3 strength on the charge if memory serves.

I kinda hope it's whatever your model has, I'll switch all my IG sergeants swords out with axes and with Straken my 30 man blobs will be getting 16 S5 AP2 attacks on the charge. Take that, Paladins!

tuebor wrote:I kinda hope it's whatever your model has, I'll switch all my IG sergeants swords out with axes and with Straken my 30 man blobs will be getting 16 S5 AP2 attacks on the charge. Take that, Paladins!

Initiative 1, AFAIK, not -1 initiative.

Still, nasty punch.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

tuebor wrote:I kinda hope it's whatever your model has, I'll switch all my IG sergeants swords out with axes and with Straken my 30 man blobs will be getting 16 S5 AP2 attacks on the charge. Take that, Paladins!

Initiative 1, AFAIK, not -1 initiative.

Still, nasty punch.

I1 and I3 may as well be the same thing 99% of the time. The only time it would matter is when charging Orks and even then the S5 is probably worth it.

I3 means you go before the fist.

pretre wrote:I3 means you go before the fist.

For a power blob that hardly matters, I'll gladly lose a couple extra ablative Guardsmen in order to hit that much harder.

e: For expensive units like Marines and the like it's a more difficult choice but for a power blob I think the power axe is pretty much a no brainer.

pretre wrote:I3 means you go before the fist.

Most things with I1 fists and the like will munch through them I3 or not, so they may as well go I1 and have a chance to kill those terminators/lychguard/etc because they're going to bite it anyway.

Curious, where will people get all these power axes? They're not the easiest to come by, at least kit-wise. Where do people buy them?

seems pretty simple to me

Eldar exarch will prob get an AP2 weapon and still keep his +2 str

frost blades being space wolves will probably get ap2 and still get the +1 str for a total of +2 str... cos well there space wolves right lol (this is a joke btw, they will prob get +1 str and ap2, its there own special pw after all)


i suppose what im saying is, if your book has a "special" kind of PS, Axe, Spear or what ever, they are prob going to just FAQ it to have a AP value rather than say "your sword of secrets is now just a power sword, ignore its previous rules"

Im almost certain that relic blades will get ap2 though as a 2 handed weapon, same with the executioners glaive etc

If Relic blades and the like get AP2, you can count on seeing them a lot more.

I have a feeling they'll just be AP3 though, retaining their own bonuses.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:If Relic blades and the like get AP2, you can count on seeing them a lot more.

I have a feeling they'll just be AP3 though, retaining their own bonuses.

yeah your probably right, im just going from a fantasy kind of idea, it feels like a "great weapon" so if it does go ap2 it may be i1 possibly, i think that would be a good trade off, str6 (most of the time) and ap2 would be a great bonus

New rule sounds interesting. I suppose it'll be hard for some armies to field all 3 until we see what new model kits they come up with. That or they could make these guys an ally option for all forces

Darkvoidof40k wrote:Curious, where will people get all these power axes? They're not the easiest to come by, at least kit-wise. Where do people buy them?

Extensive bits box or fantasy bits are probably the easiest way.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

Exergy wrote:The quote I was looking for.

"A Powerweapon is either a powersword, a poweraxe, a powermace or a powerlance depending on what the model seem's to be equipped with. If the rules state that your model wields a powerweapon, bend down and inspect your model - if it seems to be fielding a club, it's a powermace, if it wields a spear, it's a powerlance"

What's this powerlance?

power lances have a different profile the turn they charge. I remember them being rather meh, definitly very meh on the turns they dont charge.

so does this mean warsythes are now s8 i1? Or does it mean hyperphase swords are ap3?

Warscythes follow their own rules. they are neither power nor force weapons.

They are CCWs that ignore armor saves, give +2Str, and 2D6 for armor penetration. Whole heartedly better then all other CCWs in 6th edition.

I actually got a bit worried about the Shrikes I was putting together to go Terminator hunting - Adrenal Glands and Lashwhip/Bonesword. I've got plenty to deal with power armour, but they were to be my Terminator slayers.

Then I went and reread the entry for Boneswords. They're not called power weapons anywhere in their description, it just very specifically says no armour saves can be taken against them. So unless FAQ'd to be power weapons, Tyranid players should be safe with their Boneswords.

edit - Just read the FAQ, Boneswords weren't mentioned. Looks like my Terminator slayer squad still works.

I haven't got my 6th edition yet, but from reading this it looks like my bloodletters got boned. AP3 hellblades? Gah. :(

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

AL-PiXeL01 wrote:Actually there is only one maul in the csm term set, the rest are axes.
But looking at all the hype about power axes, are they that good? Don't they strike at the same time as power fists, being ini 1 and all?

My thoughts exactly.. why take a power axe over a power fist in the first place?

Power fist costs 5 points more? Get pretty much the same result with +2 S at 5 points less in the guard army....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Daedricbob wrote:I haven't got my 6th edition yet, but from reading this it looks like my bloodletters got boned. AP3 hellblades? Gah. :(

Why? Because they can't kill terminators? Make a couple of them axes instead?

sfshilo wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

AL-PiXeL01 wrote:Actually there is only one maul in the csm term set, the rest are axes.
But looking at all the hype about power axes, are they that good? Don't they strike at the same time as power fists, being ini 1 and all?

My thoughts exactly.. why take a power axe over a power fist in the first place?

Power fist costs 5 points more? Get pretty much the same result with +2 S at 5 points less in the guard army....

For IG, yes, I can understand it. I was thinking for Marines, as I primarily play them.

sfshilo wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

AL-PiXeL01 wrote:Actually there is only one maul in the csm term set, the rest are axes.
But looking at all the hype about power axes, are they that good? Don't they strike at the same time as power fists, being ini 1 and all?

My thoughts exactly.. why take a power axe over a power fist in the first place?

Power fist costs 5 points more? Get pretty much the same result with +2 S at 5 points less in the guard army....

Powerfists dont get +1 attack for 2 close combat weapons. Power axes do. So a SM sergaent could have 2 attacks at str8 or 3 attacks at str5. All at init 1 and ap2.

Exergy wrote:

sfshilo wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

AL-PiXeL01 wrote:Actually there is only one maul in the csm term set, the rest are axes.
But looking at all the hype about power axes, are they that good? Don't they strike at the same time as power fists, being ini 1 and all?

My thoughts exactly.. why take a power axe over a power fist in the first place?

Power fist costs 5 points more? Get pretty much the same result with +2 S at 5 points less in the guard army....

Powerfists dont get +1 attack for 2 close combat weapons. Power axes do. So a SM sergaent could have 2 attacks at str8 or 3 attacks at str5. All at init 1 and ap2.

True, but I'd rather have a hidden PF in my tactical squad. They're the bane of roaming monstrous creatures and liable to get at least one kill against your standard infantry. Sure, varies in potency depending on whether you're against Meq or Geq, but it's worth it over all.

Daedricbob wrote:I haven't got my 6th edition yet, but from reading this it looks like my bloodletters got boned. AP3 hellblades? Gah. :(

My Bloodletters are the old ones, from when they had axes...

should be fun

This change just makes it seem that they are promoting "modeling for an advantage" instead of something looking cool. Yes, SM now have a decision between power weapons, but any army that has low initiative will now model their power weapons as an Axe. There is really no reason for blob sargents not to be toting axes.

Slightly off topic, but the AP3 of power swords have made Banshees completely useless. Banshees and Striking Scorpons when you ran the numbers always were at about the same level against MEQ; Banshees really shined against TEQ. With AP3 and no assaulting out of transports, there is truly no reason to use Banshees. I was hoping that in the FAQ that Eldar and Dark Eldar power weapons would count as AP2, but that did not happen.

Ascalam wrote:

Daedricbob wrote:I haven't got my 6th edition yet, but from reading this it looks like my bloodletters got boned. AP3 hellblades? Gah. :(

My Bloodletters are the old ones, from when they had axes...

should be fun

How's that Initiative 1 working out for you?

Kaldor wrote:

Ascalam wrote:

Daedricbob wrote:I haven't got my 6th edition yet, but from reading this it looks like my bloodletters got boned. AP3 hellblades? Gah. :(

My Bloodletters are the old ones, from when they had axes...

should be fun

How's that Initiative 1 working out for you?

As a player who has made several Daemon armies, I'm surprised by all the complaining over bloodletters going AP3. Just take daemonettes or other high attack/rending units for bashing TEQ, or a bloodthirster if your running a mono build.

Kaldor wrote:

Ascalam wrote:

Daedricbob wrote:I haven't got my 6th edition yet, but from reading this it looks like my bloodletters got boned. AP3 hellblades? Gah. :(

My Bloodletters are the old ones, from when they had axes...

should be fun

How's that Initiative 1 working out for you?

As a primarily Ork player i'm kindof used to it


At least 'letters get an invulnerable save

It's still a nerf on the carve up termies front, but buffing their strength by one might be worth it for some uses


Frankly my Daemons have been boned so long, it really doesn't make much difference to bone them further any more..