TBD wrote:Is the Twin Linked Heavy Gauss Cannon now perhaps worth it over the Heat Ray on the Triarch Stalker?

I am building on and have a bit of a dilemma which one to put on.

Depends on your playing style. I like the TL heavy gauss because I keep Stalkers back and try not to get them ahead of my firing line, but the AP1 melta is devastating and d3 auto hits from the flamer is really nice. Magnetize and get both!

Not to mention range

The 36" vs 24" is quite nice.

It is nice, however I have found that 42 vrs 30 is not as much of a difference(factor in 6 inch movement to threat ranges, trust me it makes a big difference when looking at weapons)

Also most of the time I have found either my opponent is closing on me, or I am closing on them so that extra 12 inches doesnt come up as much.

Also just being able to hit twice is such a huge thing, you have no idea how nice that is.

Also the alternate firing mode.

If they were the same points I would say it is a dilemma. But with most of my lists I find myself trying to fight to make even 5 points available and its just not worth it for the +15.(I also run two so its +30 for me)

Last game I played I had to think about it also.

I ended up going MM.

Great Deceiver wrote:

Sasori wrote:
Well, with Preferred enemy being granted by the Destroyer Lord, and a Res Orb, they shoot up significantly in effectiveness. I wouldn't take them without one. You go from missing 1/3rd of the time, to pretty much missing 1/6th with your AP2 shots, and you only fail to wound 1/6th of the time in Melee, and Shooting. It's really really nice. The Dlord will also have almost everything bounce off of him, if you have him in the front. Their Melee isn't super effective, since they only have two attacks on the Charge, but between their shooting, and the Destroyer lord, they will chew through just about anything. I'd still stay away from TH/SS Termies, but most other elite squads, you should be able to take out without to much trouble.

They are a lot more killy than Wraiths, but Wraiths are going to be the better choice if you don't want to bring a Destroyer Lord with them. I'd say Wraiths are also a Tad more survivable, with their 3++, but TP are T5, with a 4+ RP, so it ends up being fairly close, Mathwise.

I think Wraiths will still be the better option. The I dropping coils, which you get to determine every fight phase if it's applied first or last is awesome, the 3++, S6 rending, etc. I guess Praetorians aren't total junk now. Also, with outflank now applied to attached squad members, stick a blob of 20 Flayed Ones with a MSS, Res orb, and warscythe lord and we have a pretty excellent tarpit unit.

Wraiths are still good now, no doubt they got better in fact, but the line is a lot more blurry than before, in regards to what is "better." TPs will do much better against most things with a 2+ save, such as Sanguinary guard, that we may be seeing more of, where the Wraiths would take a while to whittle them down. They also don't compete for the same slot, which is nice.

Keep in mind, you cannot attach Royal Court members, to Flayed ones, so it would have to be an Overlord.

Hm....actually thinking about having 1 unit of Wraiths less and taking a squad of TP instead for an all-comers list. Then again, this would force me to also bring a Night Scythe.Or Veiltek.

You don't want your TP to walk.

How has no one mentioned deathmarks in a night scythe yet?

Put 2 despairteks from 2 courts with them, no need for veil. When the scythe enters, zoom 24", deploy 6" and laugh hysterically. 2 of 3 table deployments you will be in range of the enemy for flamers. Otherwise, cruise and jink, and drop them perfectly accruately on top of the deathstar unit you want to disappear next turn.

Sigvatr wrote:Hm....actually thinking about having 1 unit of Wraiths less and taking a squad of TP instead for an all-comers list. Then again, this would force me to also bring a Night Scythe.Or Veiltek.

You don't want your TP to walk.

They are Jump infantry, they move just as fast as Wraiths. Only take TPs if you are Taking a kitted out Dlord with them, though.

I forgot about the RC lords.

i think i'll give my c'tan shard a whirl, since they can Wrath and challenge to fish out threats

6th didn't make them less expensive, but it sure did make them more fun!

Also I am finding that now that night fight isnt as special the second court(and mandatory pulse) is also not as big a deal

Still not sure on allies or not. My two other armies are death guard and orks. Really tough call cause I am seeing myself dropping at least 500 points on either side and it really takes a chunk of your forces.

The changes to the Command Barge are neat but I still don't think they are that good. Nothing I can find in the rules prevents the enemy for attacking the Chariot in CC. Against any infantry with Krak grenades this could be a risky proposition, as the chariot is likely to get blown up before the lord even gets to swing.

My thoughts: (hopefully I'm not too late to this party)

Warriors: Silver Tide is back! Thanks to the effect of Gauss on Hull Points, a 20-strong Warrior squad can really bring some hurt, especially with the inclusion of Snap Fire and Defensive Fire.

Immortals: I still think Tesla is where these guys belong, so I don't see anything changing for them. I think that Snap Fire and Defensive Fire really does make Tesla king against everything without an AV rating.

Deathmarks: Somehow, they became even more amazing than they were before. Being able to RF at 24" is absolutely lethal. But I still think the Death & Despair combo is their wheelhouse.

Triarch Praetorian: I agree with Sasori here. These guys with a fully-kitted D.Lord are actually worth their points now.

Lychguard: I just don't see these guys getting much use. They can't do anything that someone else in the codex can't do better.

Flayed Ones: I maintain my stance that they are the worst unit in the codex.

C'Tan: They really didn't lose anything, or gain anything other than the Smash Attack. But they still will drop to volume of fire too easy.

Destroyers: These guys are absolutely incredible now that PE works in shooting, and the gauss can strip a hull point. They've got tons of utility, are extremely mobile, and pose a threat to generally everything.

Heavy Destroyers: I thought they were pretty great before they gained PE for their shooting.

Tomb Blades: I still like the idea of taking Particle Beamers with these guys, and they are pretty cheap. But again, they are still competing with much, much better units for the same slot.

Wraiths: Okay, so Whip Coils just don't care what kind of Initiative buffs the enemy gets, and the Wraiths now get a Hammer of Wrath attack, at Str 6. Even if Rending doesn't apply, that's still a free attack the Wraiths get, and it's not like they weren't freakin' awesome to begin with.

Scarabs: No longer taking additional fearless wounds, and their increased speed now makes Scarabs even more offensive. Additionally, it only takes 4 to mathematically wreck a Land Raider. However, defensive fire from Flamestorm cannons will end these guys in a hurry now.

Monolith: Nothing frustrates me more than the Monolith. It just isn't good, and it really should be. I know that AV 14 is nothing to sneeze at, and I know that it can Snap Fire after firing its Particle Whip, but not being able to use the Eternity Gate as a Defensive/Snap Fire really sucks. Living Metal really takes a hit as well, considering every pen hit removes a Hull Point irrespective of Living Metal. And still no Deep Strike protection. Nobody will ever use the Monolith when compared to...

Doom Scythe: This thing is a monster. There is no other way to describe it. The TL Tesla Destructor is one of the best AA guns out there right now, and it can be Snap Fired. And the Death Ray, well, we've always known how awesome it was. Shame it can't be Snap Fired, but that would have been absolutely broken.

Night Scythe: This is pretty much the best transport in the game right now. It takes a 6 to hit it without the Skyfire ability, It can move its cargo 24" and still disembark, its demise doesn't kill its cargo, and it's got that wonderful TL Tesla Destructor. And it's only 100 points. That really is just obscene.

Doomsday Ark: Now that blasts always hit at full-strength, this is a pretty great weapon for making craters where your opponent's models used to be, especially combined with the new rules for Night Fighting to protect it. I can see this thing wrecking a lot of parking lots on the other end of the table.

Ghost Ark: I still don't like these, but now that Silver Tide is viable, maybe it'll have some benefit.

Tomb Spyders: They gained the Smash rule for MCs, and really lost nothing. Same as before.


I'll give some thoughts to HQs & Crypteks next time.

Sasori wrote:

Sigvatr wrote:Hm....actually thinking about having 1 unit of Wraiths less and taking a squad of TP instead for an all-comers list. Then again, this would force me to also bring a Night Scythe.Or Veiltek.

You don't want your TP to walk.

They are Jump infantry, they move just as fast as Wraiths. Only take TPs if you are Taking a kitted out Dlord with them, though.

Wraiths have a 3++ compared to the TP's 3+, making them more resilent to shooting.

Sigvatr wrote:

Sasori wrote:

Sigvatr wrote:Hm....actually thinking about having 1 unit of Wraiths less and taking a squad of TP instead for an all-comers list. Then again, this would force me to also bring a Night Scythe.Or Veiltek.

You don't want your TP to walk.

They are Jump infantry, they move just as fast as Wraiths. Only take TPs if you are Taking a kitted out Dlord with them, though.

Wraiths have a 3++ compared to the TP's 3+, making them more resilent to shooting.

Well, it makes them resilient to some shooting. Keep in mind, that with a Dlord out in front, Taking all those non AP1-2 hits, it can take a long time to get through his 2+. ShadarLogoth has done the math on this before, and it was a lot closer than it appears at first.

Well, it makes them resilient to some shooting. Keep in mind, that with a Dlord out in front, Taking all those non AP1-2 hits, it can take a long time to get through his 2+. ShadarLogoth has done the math on this before, and it was a lot closer than it appears at first.

Yeah I haven't sat down and worked it all out with the cover save differences, but intuitively anytime TPs would get a 5+ cover, Wraiths will probably be more resilient against the the AP 3 or lower stuff, 4+ cover will keep them pretty close (as that was the assumption in 5th), and 3+ cover (>24" Night Fighting for instance) will make the TP's the clear winners, particularly with a Res Orb. T5, 3+ cover save, 4+ RP is pretty damn nasty. Can't gtg for a 2+ though, sorry Cylon Police Force .

Ghost ark with 5 warriors and 2 stormteks has been lovely for me. 3-4 of those on the board with 12" move + 12" flat out. Next turn rapid fire and put down 10 gauss flayer shots and 8 S5 haywire shots per unit (bonus points for getting the rapid fires off from your gauss flayer arrays on the GA as well). You are pretty much killing a vehicle per unit (and then some with squadrons) or tossing down a nice mass of anti-infantry fire. Slip the two overlords into one of the GAs and add a couple of lightning fields to the crypteks in there. Good times

My friend is starting to dread facing my necrons in 6th, especially as he had a hard time beating them in 5th (when he won against them, which was once)

I played my first game last night and am amazed at how good Necrons have become. I just threw a bunch of units together to try as many as possible.

Wraiths with a Dlord are just plain power. Enough said.

Annihilation Barges are basically guaranteed to wreck one transport per turn.

Scythes are fun and deadly - either type is awesome.

I am in love with Immortals with Gauss and Destroyers now. The versatility and power that these guys have is amazing.

The main problem I faced was that every individual unit made its points back so quickly that no one particular unit was able to shine because everything my opponent fielded was gone.....

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Well, it makes them resilient to some shooting. Keep in mind, that with a Dlord out in front, Taking all those non AP1-2 hits, it can take a long time to get through his 2+. ShadarLogoth has done the math on this before, and it was a lot closer than it appears at first.

Yeah I haven't sat down and worked it all out with the cover save differences, but intuitively anytime TPs would get a 5+ cover, Wraiths will probably be more resilient against the the AP 3 or lower stuff, 4+ cover will keep them pretty close (as that was the assumption in 5th), and 3+ cover (>24" Night Fighting for instance) will make the TP's the clear winners, particularly with a Res Orb. T5, 3+ cover save, 4+ RP is pretty damn nasty. Can't gtg for a 2+ though, sorry Cylon Police Force .

Question... how (if at all) does the Wraith's ability to ignore terrain play into your evaluations? I mean... being able to travel through a wall to ambush a unit is pretty darn good!

Anpu-adom wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Well, it makes them resilient to some shooting. Keep in mind, that with a Dlord out in front, Taking all those non AP1-2 hits, it can take a long time to get through his 2+. ShadarLogoth has done the math on this before, and it was a lot closer than it appears at first.

Yeah I haven't sat down and worked it all out with the cover save differences, but intuitively anytime TPs would get a 5+ cover, Wraiths will probably be more resilient against the the AP 3 or lower stuff, 4+ cover will keep them pretty close (as that was the assumption in 5th), and 3+ cover (>24" Night Fighting for instance) will make the TP's the clear winners, particularly with a Res Orb. T5, 3+ cover save, 4+ RP is pretty damn nasty. Can't gtg for a 2+ though, sorry Cylon Police Force .

Question... how (if at all) does the Wraith's ability to ignore terrain play into your evaluations? I mean... being able to travel through a wall to ambush a unit is pretty darn good!

Absolutely. It's really a die to bullets when in LOS comparison. Now the TP's can fly over the wall as well, but you're absolutely right, no one can take advantage of LOS blocking impassible terrain quite like Wraiths.

So what is considered Unique Wargear Options to the Crypteks? Cause the way it is written in the book it seems like you can only have 1 of each type of Cryptek per Court, but I've seen talk of multiple Storm or Destruction Teks across this forum.

Any help would be appreciated!

rybackstun wrote:So what is considered Unique Wargear Options to the Crypteks? Cause the way it is written in the book it seems like you can only have 1 of each type of Cryptek per Court, but I've seen talk of multiple Storm or Destruction Teks across this forum.

Any help would be appreciated!

Only the stuff you pay for is unique wargear. So, for example, you could have 5 Destroteks, but only one of them could have the Solar Pulse or 18" Moral check thingy whose name escapes me. To clarify, two different guys could each have one, or one guy could have both.

Now if you have 2 Overlords, and 2 Courts, each court can take a unique once.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Anpu-adom wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Well, it makes them resilient to some shooting. Keep in mind, that with a Dlord out in front, Taking all those non AP1-2 hits, it can take a long time to get through his 2+. ShadarLogoth has done the math on this before, and it was a lot closer than it appears at first.

Yeah I haven't sat down and worked it all out with the cover save differences, but intuitively anytime TPs would get a 5+ cover, Wraiths will probably be more resilient against the the AP 3 or lower stuff, 4+ cover will keep them pretty close (as that was the assumption in 5th), and 3+ cover (>24" Night Fighting for instance) will make the TP's the clear winners, particularly with a Res Orb. T5, 3+ cover save, 4+ RP is pretty damn nasty. Can't gtg for a 2+ though, sorry Cylon Police Force .

Question... how (if at all) does the Wraith's ability to ignore terrain play into your evaluations? I mean... being able to travel through a wall to ambush a unit is pretty darn good!

Absolutely. It's really a die to bullets when in LOS comparison. Now the TP's can fly over the wall as well, but you're absolutely right, no one can take advantage of LOS blocking impassible terrain quite like Wraiths.

Through the wall. Not over it.

Something I wanted to check - Hyperphase Swords are classed as 'Power Weapons'. Given the new rules for power weapons, does this mean we can shenanigan them as Power Axes? I'm not entirely up on how it works.

Drachii wrote:Something I wanted to check - Hyperphase Swords are classed as 'Power Weapons'. Given the new rules for power weapons, does this mean we can shenanigan them as Power Axes? I'm not entirely up on how it works.

Hyperphase Swords are really Power Axes? Well, it's said that rules-lawyering and farting have a lot in common. If you have to push too hard then it's probably crap.

azazel the cat wrote:However, defensive fire from Flamestorm cannons will end these guys in a hurry now.

Vehicles can't Overwatch... is that what you are referring to?

Remember you cant assault units you cant see so wraiths cant assault through walls. Also remember that its if you pass through difficult terrain you take the test, not if you are slowed by it. Wraiths don't ignore terrain(c'tan do) however they are not slowed by it.

Anpu-adom wrote:

Drachii wrote:Something I wanted to check - Hyperphase Swords are classed as 'Power Weapons'. Given the new rules for power weapons, does this mean we can shenanigan them as Power Axes? I'm not entirely up on how it works.

Hyperphase Swords are really Power Axes? Well, it's said that rules-lawyering and farting have a lot in common. If you have to push too hard then it's probably crap.

Thank you for your entirely unhelpful comment. Given that people are swapping out left right and centre for Power Axes where previously it was always Swords because they did pretty much the same thing, I am unsurprisingly interested in seeing if it can work for Lychguard. And hey, look, a hyperphase axe! Oh dear, I think I just overloaded my brain with the power of imagination. Woops. I think it'd be quite fun to model, too.

Drachii wrote:Something I wanted to check - Hyperphase Swords are classed as 'Power Weapons'. Given the new rules for power weapons, does this mean we can shenanigan them as Power Axes? I'm not entirely up on how it works.

If you want to take a step on the TFG path...go ahead

Sure, RAW, it might even be legal to some, but if someone walked up to my face claiming that his Hyperphase SWORDS suddenly were axes...well, there are plenty of other players to play with.

There is nothing wrong with modeling for optics, but people only want the axes because they are far superior to swords. And that's downright lame, sorry. What further bothers me is that people claim they look like axes when they were clearly modeled after egyptian swords...

Sigvatr wrote:

Drachii wrote:Something I wanted to check - Hyperphase Swords are classed as 'Power Weapons'. Given the new rules for power weapons, does this mean we can shenanigan them as Power Axes? I'm not entirely up on how it works.

If you want to take a step on the TFG path...go ahead

Sure, RAW, it might even be legal to some, but if someone walked up to my face claiming that his Hyperphase SWORDS suddenly were axes...well, there are plenty of other players to play with.

There is nothing wrong with modeling for optics, but people only want the axes because they are far superior to swords. And that's downright lame, sorry. What further bothers me is that people claim they look like axes when they were clearly modeled after egyptian swords...

Power Swords going to AP3's seriously damaged their ability to do what I take them for - fight Terminators and other CC nasties. I like the Hyperphase Shield aesthetic (and the sword, of course), but if they can't do what I need them to do, I'm looking at either switching them to Warscythes or just dropping them for something like Wraiths + Destroyer Lord. I'd rather not do that, which is why I'm interested in getting some form of Power Axe going.

But hey, I've been fielding Sword + Board Lychguard, Praetorians and Destroyers since the new codex. Check me out in all my TFG glory!

Well I'm glad I discovered this thread (even though I am 4 pages late). Been busy throwing my opinion around in the nid and GK thread even though Necrons are my primary army.

I have to say I like the idea of putting Deathmarks in a Scythe now. Tried it in 5th and wasn't very impressed. It was too hit or miss for me. I'm guessing that in 6th it will be a lot more viable since there will likely be less mech, more infantry and you can pinpoint insert them next to your chosen unit from reserve and up to 36" away. Brutal! It is also how I now visualize Lychguard being used.

Any other combos people are looking at? The only thing of note I see is that since our anti-mech is built standard into our Troops choices we don't have to pain ourselves with choosing between anti-tank or anti-infantry like other armies do. It's a huge advantage. The other stuff mentioned so far is pretty standard from 5th, even if the rules have buffed the effectiveness somewhat.

Anti-Vehicle Squad.

Stormtek, Veiltek, 10 Warriors. Kill every vehicle in 1 turn.

Not sure of its been mentioned, but warscythes are AP1, which is now huge. Both armband and +2 to the damage chart makes these guys better vehicle killers than MCs now. Praetarians look really good now, so I'll definitely be fielding more of them.

I think that the meta is going to shift away from vehicles (at least ground-based ones). For many armies, it'll be a hard habit to kick. We'll also see a reduction in the amount of melta (a lot of people are trying to use Stormteks as melta... and it would would, but the meta is going to go away from that!)

MSU is dead and even if it isn't we don't need to concentrate on popping vehicles anymore (we have that in spades). You need to make sure that we can handle Lots of MEQ.

EDIT:
I've given it more thought and this is what I've come up with. I don't think that Heavy Gauss Cannons are worth 20 more points on a Destroyer. I would much rather have the volume of fire knowing that wrecked results are just another unit's shooting away. I feel the same with Eldrich Lances without Solar Pulses (it could be just me, but the Eldrich Lances I've used in the past always roll 1's). By rolling more dice, we can get a more statistically average result. It sucks to give up the range, though.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

rybackstun wrote:So what is considered Unique Wargear Options to the Crypteks? Cause the way it is written in the book it seems like you can only have 1 of each type of Cryptek per Court, but I've seen talk of multiple Storm or Destruction Teks across this forum.

Any help would be appreciated!

Only the stuff you pay for is unique wargear. So, for example, you could have 5 Destroteks, but only one of them could have the Solar Pulse or 18" Moral check thingy whose name escapes me. To clarify, two different guys could each have one, or one guy could have both.

Now if you have 2 Overlords, and 2 Courts, each court can take a unique once.

Thank you very much for your answer. This should have been clarified in the FAQ as it is not entirely clear in the main book.

rybackstun wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:

rybackstun wrote:So what is considered Unique Wargear Options to the Crypteks? Cause the way it is written in the book it seems like you can only have 1 of each type of Cryptek per Court, but I've seen talk of multiple Storm or Destruction Teks across this forum.

Any help would be appreciated!

Only the stuff you pay for is unique wargear. So, for example, you could have 5 Destroteks, but only one of them could have the Solar Pulse or 18" Moral check thingy whose name escapes me. To clarify, two different guys could each have one, or one guy could have both.

Now if you have 2 Overlords, and 2 Courts, each court can take a unique once.

Thank you very much for your answer. This should have been clarified in the FAQ as it is not entirely clear in the main book.

It is, in the questions part.

Given that Vehicles are easier to destroy, the shift to AP2 weapons is also something the Necrons have quite a bit of, with Heavy Destroyers, Doom Scythes, Doomsday Arks, Warscythes, Rods of Covenant, Tachyon Arrows (though these are still mediocre), Eldritch Lances, etc.

Oh, and let's not forget that you can still assault out of open-topped vehicles, so that full warscythe/sempiternal weave lord court with an OL w/ Res orb and gear can be in a Ghost Ark, move 6", disembark, move another 6", then charge.

i agree they should not be used as axes.

however the models weapon looks like an axe not a kopesh or any other style of eastern sword. Clearly an axe. imo, lol.

Clearly a sword in the game however.

Anpu-adom wrote:
EDIT:
I've given it more thought and this is what I've come up with. I don't think that Heavy Gauss Cannons are worth 20 more points on a Destroyer. I would much rather have the volume of fire knowing that wrecked results are just another unit's shooting away. I feel the same with Eldrich Lances without Solar Pulses (it could be just me, but the Eldrich Lances I've used in the past always roll 1's). By rolling more dice, we can get a more statistically average result. It sucks to give up the range, though.

I was thinking that at first, but 5 Destroyers isn't quite enough for 3 Hull Points, however 2 HDs/3Ds is almost perfect. Plus a couple Heavies gives you some good Term killing, and all indications seem to point to Terms being mighty popular on 6th.

After rewriting the GK thread *phew tired* I've decided to head across the dark side and embrace the necrons as wierdly enough we can be allies of convenience.

While overall synergy isn't too great, I'm wondering if anyone has any good combos between the two.

My basic premis is a combination of necron assault and fast moving elements backed up by GK twin linked and psycannon shooting. Initially was going to go with purifiers but I can barely squeeze in two squads so trying all sorts of wierd combos.

So far really thinking of including a triarch stalker to twin linke alot of stuff but not sure if affect GK as it just says friendly and I happen to like the model as a good fire magnet while the AV12 deads take things apart in the back

Thinking of throwing in:

Lord (with weave + scythe + mss) + barge
6 wraiths
Immortals as ground pounders with lance tek's (prob 2 squads)
Doom scythe

At higher points I was thinking of writing world scape c'tan (can you reposition allies using his grand illusion?)
and a death star with 5 lords and all with weave + scythes + MSS stealing a ride (ghost ark) from a squad of warriors. Also throught of putting in a cryptek of eternity with timeplinter cloak but it eats up a ton of points.

What do you guys think would work well with a GK detatchment (meaning what units do you think complement necrons well?)

The working theory on allies in this Edition: They are a great way to cover shortcomings in your main codex.

Corollary: Codex's with few weaknesses will gain little value from allies. Grey Knights fall into this category. There is some nit-picking you can do, but, without being able to buff one another, GK don't really gain a lot from 'Crons, and vise versa.

I suppose necrons lack quality, cheap CC units that can be taken en masse. Coateaz and DCA could make up for that. But I would say Ork Boys would do the same job for cheaper. Necrons have no quality psychic defense, but The Aegis isn't much better. That role would be better served with some Space Wolves (Kept at least 6" away at all times).

I also suppose GK might benefit from cheap flyers.

For the most part, however, they both are elite, 24" shooty armies with expensive, but high quality CC units. I think that GW knew that both of these armies are quite powerful now, which I believe was the reasoning behind neither army having any Battle Brothers. They just don't need the help.

After reading through the thread, there are still a couple of things I'm not sure on:

-Deep Striking Fliers: would you ever want to do this? Surely a flyer doesn't have to worry about sitting above terrain or models. It's flying, for cripes sake! What does it care what's 100 feet below it on the ground.

-The Monolith being "heavy": what exactly does this do apart from making it slow? (if a thousand ton chuck of metal falling from the sky lands on a Grot, I still don't see how the Grot is fine, but the Monolith can potentially explode).

-Harbinger tiers: (in descending order) Storm-tek, Despair-tek, Lance/Pulse-tek, Chrono-tek, Transmog-tek? What do people think? Any potential new combos, like Dlords + TPs?


And I don't know about guys, but the thought of running (at the 2000+ point level) a deathstar of 4 Overlords (all decked out), 8 Lords (all decked out), and 8 Crypteks (a fruit salad of Harbingers) just makes me giddy with excitement.

skoffs wrote:
-The Monolith being "heavy": what exactly does this do apart from making it slow? (if a thousand ton chuck of metal falling from the sky lands on a Grot, I still don't see how the Grot is fine, but the Monolith can potentially explode).

Always counts as having been stationary when firing, even when having moved 6'' before.

-Harbinger tiers: (in descending order) Storm-tek, Despair-tek, Lance/Pulse-tek, Chrono-tek, Transmog-tek? What do people think? Any potential new combos, like Dlords + TPs?

Using a sort of "shock squad" now and in the last 2 games, it was pretty efficient. 10 Warriors, Veiltek, Stormtek...you know the rest Deepstrike, shoot, blow stuff up with a 100% chance. Almost.

I'm looking at some of the (previously) lower tier Crypteks in a new light. Transmogrification and Storm Crypteks suddenly became pretty awesome and even moreso with their specialist gear.

2 Transmogrification teks reduce assault moves by 2D3 as well as being able to make opponents move through difficult terrain.

2 Storm Teks can reliably take out any vehicle in a single shooting phase. 2 Lightning fields also protect the unit from assault pretty darn nicely (which is actually a huge boon considering the range of the weapon).

Sorry if this is a repeat, but some question of Triarch Stalkers and if they got better.
I say yes.
They are a force multiplier, so in order for them to get better, other units have to get better. I think Stalkers with Destroyers are a good combo. You get re-roll on hits and then re-roll on 1's to wound because of PE.
They are awesome with any tesla weapon, including flyers.
They are just a fantastic unit.

Got in a game against Orks today, and I'd say it went pretty well.

The Chariot worked out pretty well for me, I think Overall, it's beneficial. True, we can't sweep like we used to be able to, but we can more than make up for that with everything else in our codex.

I faced two flyers, and I didn't have any of my own. The Tesla Destructors worked pretty well, and the Regular Carbines finished them off. I'd have to say though, against AV12, we probably would be better Served with something like Gauss blasters on the Immortals. I'm still not sure which choice I'm going to take for my standard choice. I think with the Points I'm saving, by not having to stick two lanceteks every squad, I'll likely take Immortals over Warriors now as my Troops. I feel like the sturdier troops are gong to be more beneficial.

The Destroyer Lord and the TP's continued to be a beatstick. No one wants to accept a challenge from a D.Lord.

Here's a couple more...

-Invasion Beams: as far as dropping off infantry, it IS only where the Night Scythe stopped?

-Royal Court members and Challenges: can they issue them?

-Mindschakle Scarabs and Challenges: what's the order thing work out? if it goes
CHALLENGE --> MINDSHACKLE SCARABS
no prob.
If the other way around, no quite so useful (could end up MSS some guy who's not even involved).

skoffs wrote:-Invasion Beams: as far as dropping off infantry, it IS only where the Night Scythe stopped?

6 inches from the base of the Night Scythe

skoffs wrote:-Royal Court members and Challenges: can they issue them?

Yes, they are Characters.

skoffs wrote:-Mindschakle Scarabs and Challenges: what's the order thing work out? if it goes
CHALLENGE --> MINDSHACKLE SCARABS
no prob.
If the other way around, no quite so useful (could end up MSS some guy who's not even involved).

To the best of my knowledge and all the reading I've done....They both happen at the same time, so the order is up to the player who's turn it currently is. Although, everyone I've played against so far hasn't had a problem with MSS going after the challenge, so...

After reading this thread, I'm going to add my two cents.

1) We have a gak ton of AP1/things that glance really easily. Goodbye vehicles (yay)

2) MitM. I think, reading the rules, FAQ & dex at once, you can use it off a CCB. I think, as I interpret it.

WOuld anyone here want to drop a skyshield as far forward as possible and deepstrike a flier on it?

Dragoon65 wrote:WOuld anyone here want to drop a skyshield as far forward as possible and deepstrike a flier on it?

Not DS a Flyer, no. I might be temted to drop it in one corner on my board edge with a Doom Ark & a lith on it for area denial

Here's a nice little Deathstar I just picked up on:

Zahndrekh
D- Lord w/ MSS and Weave
20x Warriors

This unit can do it all. D-lord is a Challenge machine and buffs the unit with preferred enemy. Zahndrekh can give Tank Hunters which is now pretty sick. Low S high volume gauss weapons benefit the most as opposed to high S low volume due to the changes of Tank Hunters. This unit can easily destroy any vehicle at the 24" (or 30") range quite reliably.

Thinking of incorporating this into my flier list:

Zahndrekh

Royal Court
1x Harbinger of Destruction Cryptek w/ Solar Pulse
2x Harbinger of Despair Teks

D- Lord
MSS
Weave

5x Deathmarks w/ Scythe
5x Deathmarks w/ Scythe

20x Warriors
10x Warriors
5x Immortals w/ Tesla Carbines

Doom Scythe
Doom Scythe
Doom Scythe

Speaking of Deathstars, how's Royal Court Disco Inferno looking now at the 2000 point level?

8 Lords all armed to the teeth, 5 Crypteks of all the various flavors, lead by potentially 4 to 5 ICs?
Is there anything that can stop that?

A well-placed Bastion-Breacher Medusa battery. 3x S10 AP1 5" pie plates. If not fethed up by scatter, it should statistically wipe it off the board (until EL kicks off)

skoffs wrote:Here's a couple more...
-Royal Court members and Challenges: can they issue them?

They're characters, so yes, they can issue and receive challenges

skoffs wrote:
-Mindschakle Scarabs and Challenges: what's the order thing work out? if it goes
CHALLENGE --> MINDSHACKLE SCARABS
no prob.
If the other way around, no quite so useful (could end up MSS some guy who's not even involved).

Current player always chooses the order of resolving. So in your turn, it's Challenge -> MSS. In your opponents turn MSS -> Challenge. Very rarely you might want to do it some other way.

IHateNids wrote:After reading this thread, I'm going to add my two cents.
2) MitM. I think, reading the rules, FAQ & dex at once, you can use it off a CCB. I think, as I interpret it.

6e works exactly same way as 5e did post-FAQ. So no MitM while embarked. Same goes for Coteaz' "I've been Excepting You".
(No permission is given to draw LOS from embarked model except for shooting and PSA)

Luide wrote:

IHateNids wrote:After reading this thread, I'm going to add my two cents.
2) MitM. I think, reading the rules, FAQ & dex at once, you can use it off a CCB. I think, as I interpret it.

6e works exactly same way as 5e did post-FAQ. So no MitM while embarked. Same goes for Coteaz' "I've been Excepting You".
(No permission is given to draw LOS from embarked model except for shooting and PSA)

I dunno, if a character on a Chariot can assault while embarked, how is it he has to get off to use his power?
this is DEFINITELY something that needs to be addressed.

skoffs wrote:Speaking of Deathstars, how's Royal Court Disco Inferno looking now at the 2000 point level?

8 Lords all armed to the teeth, 5 Crypteks of all the various flavors, lead by potentially 4 to 5 ICs?
Is there anything that can stop that?

AP 2 / AP 1 pie plates

Sigvatr wrote:

skoffs wrote:Speaking of Deathstars, how's Royal Court Disco Inferno looking now at the 2000 point level?

8 Lords all armed to the teeth, 5 Crypteks of all the various flavors, lead by potentially 4 to 5 ICs?
Is there anything that can stop that?

AP 2 / AP 1 pie plates

Considering that everything model in the Royal Court has Ever-Living and would be standing back up on a 4+, those pie plates would only do so much. Assuming they actually killed any models, because at least half of the models have a 3+ invuln saves.

Well, how did he manage to get 8 lords in 1 unit?

BarBoBot wrote:Well, how did he manage to get 8 lords in 1 unit?

Narnian Space Magic.

I think he was putting two courts together. Max per RC is 5 lords and 5 Crypteks.

Luide wrote:
6e works exactly same way as 5e did post-FAQ. So no MitM while embarked. Same goes for Coteaz' "I've been Excepting You".
(No permission is given to draw LOS from embarked model except for shooting and PSA)

Where does it say that you can't?

Sigvatr wrote:

Luide wrote:
6e works exactly same way as 5e did post-FAQ. So no MitM while embarked. Same goes for Coteaz' "I've been Excepting You".
(No permission is given to draw LOS from embarked model except for shooting and PSA)

Where does it say that you can't?

Wrong question. "Where does it say that you can?" would be the correct one.
Answer is nowhere, and because 40k is permissive ruleset, therefore you can't.

There is very good example showing example of this on page 67:
"Unless otherwise stated, the Psyker must have line of sight to his target. This means that a Psyker embarked on a Transport can only target himself, his vehicle or another unit embarked on the same vehicle as the Psyker".
MitM works exactly the same: You need LOS and this means Anrakyr could only target himself or his CBC with it.

Point of order: Coteazs' 'I've Been Expecting You' rule is explicitly a shooting attack, and normal Transport-LOS rules for such should apply. Other than that i agree with you, no MitM for Anrakyr in transports unless he gets a FAQ update somewhere along the way.

Luide wrote:
Wrong question. "Where does it say that you can?" would be the correct one.
Answer is nowhere, and because 40k is permissive ruleset, therefore you can't.

There is very good example showing example of this on page 67:
"Unless otherwise stated, the Psyker must have line of sight to his target. This means that a Psyker embarked on a Transport can only target himself, his vehicle or another unit embarked on the same vehicle as the Psyker".
MitM works exactly the same: You need LOS and this means Anrakyr could only target himself or his CBC with it.

So what exactly keeps me from smashing my opponent's minis off the board?

Certainly a hyperbole, no offense,, yet I don't buy the "Rules need to be stated part" unless there's a specific part telling me that you don't get LOS out of a transport.

...and seriously, not getting LOS out from a CCB is downright bs logic-wise.

Not wanting to be your local pariah/TFG?

i agree it doesn't make logical sense that you cannot draw LOS for special (non-shooting) abilities from a transport, but 'logical sense' doesn't appear to feature in rules creation as much as one would think it should.

I don't see how's that TFG. It's not bending any rules as of now - my main gripe is that it was in the old FAQ and then was left out in the current one which might be a sign for it still being allowed.

I'm not fielding him anyway as we play w/o special characters, but I just want to get the rules straight.

/e: It's not even a normal transporter. It's open-topped...and...SWEET C'TAN, look at the model GW. No LOS? COME ON.

I'm sorry, i believe you understand quite well that knocking your opponents' carefully crafted models from the board is not going to win you points with your fellow gamers...

The problem your not understanding is that to do ANYTHING in 40k, you must have permission to do it.

There are rules for vehicles that allow ranged weapons and psychic shooting attacks to be used while embarked in a transport.

There are no rules that allow you to do anything else but shoot a weapon or use a PSA while embarked, so you may not do anything but that.

It's that simple.

I think it's stupid that you can't use abilities from an open topped transport, but GW just released the new rules, and it's the same as last edition. If they wanted you to use non-shooting abilities from open topped transports, they would have written it into the rules.

This is nothing new, and it didn't just slip by unnoticed. It's how they want the rules to be... For better or worse

Looking forward to the FAQ update then (also: Skyfire on Heavy Destroyers, please.).

With all due respect to RAW, it's complete bullcrap. So, you can hold a gun out of a firing point / open-topped vehicle and aim at stuff yet can't draw normal LOS?

...and seriously, the model -_-

GW, master of fack ups.

Can someone post a link to a pic of the model. I cant find it, even on GW.

here it is (from the GW website): http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2003406a_99120110013_CommandBarge01_445x319.jpg

Not getting LOS on a CCB, you read it here first

I meant the Anrakyr model. it was showed in WD, so my mate was saying, and I hoped someone would have a pic of him

Sigvatr wrote:Looking forward to the FAQ update then (also: Skyfire on Heavy Destroyers, please.).

With all due respect to RAW, it's complete bullcrap. So, you can hold a gun out of a firing point / open-topped vehicle and aim at stuff yet can't draw normal LOS?

...and seriously, the model -_-

GW, master of fack ups.

Are you expecting a realistic tabletop war experience?

Im sure you have heard it before, but I'll repeat it.

40k does not use real world logic. The amount of things that are not realistic are plentiful. If you start picking the game apart based on what would be realistic in real life, your in for a huge disappointment.

skoffs wrote:Speaking of Deathstars, how's Royal Court Disco Inferno looking now at the 2000 point level?

8 Lords all armed to the teeth, 5 Crypteks of all the various flavors, lead by potentially 4 to 5 ICs?
Is there anything that can stop that?

First off, I think he's talking about a double force chart game:
Royal Court #1: 5 Lords + 5 Crypteks
From Royal Court #2: +1 Lord
From Royal Court #3: +1 Lord
From Royal Court #4: +1 Lord
Total 8 Lords and 5 Crypteks... however the rules don't say that Royal Court members can 'join a Royal Court'... only squads of Deathmarks, Lychguard, Immortals, and Warriors.

BarBoBot wrote:

Sigvatr wrote:Looking forward to the FAQ update then (also: Skyfire on Heavy Destroyers, please.).

With all due respect to RAW, it's complete bullcrap. So, you can hold a gun out of a firing point / open-topped vehicle and aim at stuff yet can't draw normal LOS?

...and seriously, the model -_-

GW, master of fack ups.

Are you expecting a realistic tabletop war experience?

Im sure you have heard it before, but I'll repeat it.

40k does not use real world logic. The amount of things that are not realistic are plentiful. If you start picking the game apart based on what would be realistic in real life, your in for a huge disappointment.

Yet the game used and continues to use True Line of Sight.

Furthermore, every single fantasy/sci-fi game bases its physics and laws of nature upon those found in our would/planet/universe/place. Just because Daemons or another parallel dimension exists does not exempt the game from having a firm grasp on the laws of physics, much less sight. Granted, the writers at GW seem to not have the Science Channel (and perhaps haven't heard anything about science in the last... decade or so),

Was there a change to wording? Last time i remember reading about transport and LOS there were fire points mentioned - as in, you can't trace LOS from fire points.
Also, last time i checked there are no firepoints on open-topped vehickles. Not in rules, not on models.

Anyway, what i was thinking about is something along the lines of 4 Ghost Arcs with 5 warriors, 1 Overlord, and 4 Royal Court members in each. At 2k, of course. Haven't run the numberson it yet, though. What woould be the best curt loadout for this setup, though? Even simple "lords with scythes/mss" would be brutal, but i do believe that's not the limit.

Sigvatr wrote:

Luide wrote:
Wrong question. "Where does it say that you can?" would be the correct one.
Answer is nowhere, and because 40k is permissive ruleset, therefore you can't.

There is very good example showing example of this on page 67:
"Unless otherwise stated, the Psyker must have line of sight to his target. This means that a Psyker embarked on a Transport can only target himself, his vehicle or another unit embarked on the same vehicle as the Psyker".
MitM works exactly the same: You need LOS and this means Anrakyr could only target himself or his CBC with it.

So what exactly keeps me from smashing my opponent's minis off the board?

Fact that there is no rule allowing you to do it. Exactly same as with Anrakyr and MitM.

Sigvatr wrote:
Certainly a hyperbole, no offense,, yet I don't buy the "Rules need to be stated part" unless there's a specific part telling me that you don't get LOS out of a transport.

Then you've completely misunderstood how permissive ruleset works. There is no specific part in rules that tells you that you don't get LOS out of transport. Neither is there specific part of rules that says "You can smash your opponents minis". Therefore, you can't do either.
To recap: In permissive rulesset, to do anything, you need rule that gives you permission to do it.

Sigvatr wrote:...and seriously, not getting LOS out from a CCB is downright bs logic-wise.

Don't mix logic and 40k. You'll only get huge headache. Fact that opponents cannot draw LOS to models embarked in open-topped transports is just as bs, but you don't see any Necron players complaining about that, do you?
40k has huge amount of unrealistic rules that only exists to streamline game or for balance reasons. This is just one of them.
(Disclaimer: 40k also has huge amount of unrealistic rules that exist for no good reason that I can see).

Survivor19 wrote: Also, last time i checked there are no firepoints on open-topped vehickles. Not in rules, not on models.

Open-topped vehicles do not have specific Fire Points, that is true. But this does not matter, because even in open-topped you're only given permission to draw LOS for shooting attacks. So still no MitM.

Anpu-adom wrote:

skoffs wrote:Speaking of Deathstars, how's Royal Court Disco Inferno looking now at the 2000 point level?

8 Lords all armed to the teeth, 5 Crypteks of all the various flavors, lead by potentially 4 to 5 ICs?
Is there anything that can stop that?

First off, I think he's talking about a double force chart game:
Royal Court #1: 5 Lords + 5 Crypteks
From Royal Court #2: +1 Lord
From Royal Court #3: +1 Lord
From Royal Court #4: +1 Lord
Total 8 Lords and 5 Crypteks... however the rules don't say that Royal Court members can 'join a Royal Court'... only squads of Deathmarks, Lychguard, Immortals, and Warriors.

oh son of a bitch.
Yes, that is how I had thought I might be able to get away with it... without realizing that nowhere in the codex does it say anything about Court members being able to join other Royal Courts.
*sigh*
Well, at least I might be able to field 4 RCDIs, then?
(that's still pretty tough to deal with, right?)

ITT: people citing real-world logic instead of reading the damn rules.

It's a game, there are rules that may or may not match up with reality. It's like arguing that queens shouldn't be able to move so far on a chessboard because they're not as well-trained as knights.

Whats your general thoughts on Lynchguards/Preaetorians?

Are they worth their points in this edition? what unit would you take?

TheAzathoth wrote:Whats your general thoughts on Lynchguards/Preaetorians?

Are they worth their points in this edition? what unit would you take?

I think someone already answered your question in another thread when you asked it: the best use of the box is to make Crypteks, the second best choice being Praetorians (only if accompanied by a Dlord), third being counter-assault Lychguard.

skoffs wrote:

TheAzathoth wrote:Whats your general thoughts on Lynchguards/Preaetorians?

Are they worth their points in this edition? what unit would you take?

I think someone already answered your question in another thread when you asked it: the best use of the box is to make Crypteks, the second best choice being Praetorians (only if accompanied by a Dlord), third being counter-assault Lychguard.

Wow really? i asked in another thread but i though no one replied it, sorry!

And thanks a lot for your response!

Use Hyperphase Swords as Power Axes, and viola Lychguard are viable again. The Initiative loss is nothing to worried about with Necrons.

Gangrel767 wrote:Use Hyperphase Swords as Power Axes, and viola Lychguard are viable again.

... dude, that is very TFG, right there.
(I mean, seriously, just look at the name of the weapon, for C'tan's sake!)

Gangrel767 wrote:Use Hyperphase Swords as Power Axes, and viola Lychguard are viable again. The Initiative loss is nothing to worried about with Necrons.

Necron digital codex confirms they are just AP 3. Sorry

skoffs wrote:

Gangrel767 wrote:Use Hyperphase Swords as Power Axes, and viola Lychguard are viable again.

... dude, that is very TFG, right there.
(I mean, seriously, just look at the name of the weapon, for C'tan's sake!)

Not TFG, it's illegal. Hyperphase Swords are classified as AP 3 power weapons.

Gangrel767 wrote:Use Hyperphase Swords as Power Axes, and viola Lychguard are viable again. The Initiative loss is nothing to worried about with Necrons.

I don't think it's a TFG argument at all and makes sense RAW. However, we got a stealth update in the digital codex which specifically lists HPSs as AP3 powerswords unfortunately.

I know a guy who'll let me use them as axes XD

Lychguards with warscythes are not a good option? i like the +2 S and the AP1, but initiative and wounds doesnt seem to help these poor guys.

Which is why they need the invuns from the Shield. Even nerfed, Power Weapons still go through

TheAzathoth wrote:Lychguards with warscythes are not a good option? i like the +2 S and the AP1, but initiative and wounds doesnt seem to help these poor guys.

They're good for very specific purposes, like tearing up vehicles. The problem is the necron codex has so many better options for taking out a parking lot. Sword/shield is the superior loadout, with added Court Lords/Overlords if you need the warscythe.

but are they really worth their 40 pts each? sorry for so many questions, im new and i just bought a pack of lych/praetors, and i want to make sure that i build the right ones haha.

TheAzathoth wrote:but are they really worth their 40 pts each? sorry for so many questions, im new and i just bought a pack of lych/praetors, and i want to make sure that i build the right ones haha.

It depends what you want to do with them. They're not going to hold off an ork horde all by themselves, but they'll certainly clean up the contents of a scoring unit's transport quickly and efficiently.


You can't just ask "is this unit good" without some idea of what you need the unit to accomplish.

skoffs wrote:

Anpu-adom wrote:

skoffs wrote:Speaking of Deathstars, how's Royal Court Disco Inferno looking now at the 2000 point level?

8 Lords all armed to the teeth, 5 Crypteks of all the various flavors, lead by potentially 4 to 5 ICs?
Is there anything that can stop that?

First off, I think he's talking about a double force chart game:
Royal Court #1: 5 Lords + 5 Crypteks
From Royal Court #2: +1 Lord
From Royal Court #3: +1 Lord
From Royal Court #4: +1 Lord
Total 8 Lords and 5 Crypteks... however the rules don't say that Royal Court members can 'join a Royal Court'... only squads of Deathmarks, Lychguard, Immortals, and Warriors.

oh son of a bitch.
Yes, that is how I had thought I might be able to get away with it... without realizing that nowhere in the codex does it say anything about Court members being able to join other Royal Courts.
*sigh*
Well, at least I might be able to field 4 RCDIs, then?
(that's still pretty tough to deal with, right?)

The real problem with a deathstar for us is that we don't have any 2 wound infantry models to form the unit around. If lychguard or Court Lords had 2 wounds we'd be set. We just can't allocate wounds effectively like a squad of nob bikers or paladins.
The strength of Necrons is going to be shooting and flyers. We need to focus on those things. I'm really afraid that Necrons were written so strong because we don't have the ally options of the other top 5th edition codexes.

Kinda lame they update the codex without updating the FAQ. So now we're going to HAVE to buy the POS iPad in order to play 40k properly? Come on GW...

Gangrel767 wrote:Kinda lame they update the codex without updating the FAQ. So now we're going to HAVE to buy the POS iPad in order to play 40k properly? Come on GW...

Yes lets jump to conclusions after only one day

I'm not jumping to conclusions, several people just reported they updated the codex. and they did not update the FAQs.. I just checked.

I do not have an iPad and I won't be owning one, probably ever, so unless they update the FAQs more often (and really, who is against that?), the people with iPads and inflated costed codexs are going to get a cleaner ruleset. It just doesn't seem right.

I think it's a poor poor business model.

p.s. I don't want to hi-jack the thread any more than i just did to complain about this, but it just seems silly that a company which does everything it can to space out the FAQ updates, will update an electronic document. It just makes no sense, other than they want you to buy this new toy.

Let's think positively and assume that they are currently working on FAQ v.1.1 and decided to leak a bit info in the digital codex.

...and let's be extremely positive and hope for Heavy Destroyers getting Skyfire and Interceptor!

Sigvatr wrote:Let's think positively and assume that they are currently working on FAQ v.1.1 and decided to leak a bit info in the digital codex.

...and let's be extremely positive and hope for Heavy Destroyers getting Skyfire and Interceptor!

Bingo. I'm sure they'll be releasing updates to many of the FAQs within the next few weeks.

I'm sure they've found (or people have found) mannnnnyyyyy things requiring updates already. Remember, they're updating something like 15 FAQs at a TIME with this new edition. Can't be that simple!

Gangrel767 wrote:I'm not jumping to conclusions, several people just reported they updated the codex. and they did not update the FAQs.. I just checked.

That is true, but you are jumping to conclusions that GW will not update their FAQs

Are they sluggish? Yes. Efficiency is not GW's forte. But that is far from "iPad users will have direct access to exclusive rules for several weeks" if that was what you are getting at. And if anyone has access to the internet, then I bet they'll have access to forums where people have ipad codexes anyways

As a side note I do not own the digital copies, nor do I ever intend to

Anyways back to necron stuff!

buddha wrote:

Gangrel767 wrote:Use Hyperphase Swords as Power Axes, and viola Lychguard are viable again. The Initiative loss is nothing to worried about with Necrons.

I don't think it's a TFG argument at all and makes sense RAW. However, we got a stealth update in the digital codex which specifically lists HPSs as AP3 powerswords unfortunately.

And they are still perfectly viable as Sword and Board, just bring Warscythe/MSS Lord/Overlords with them for your anti-term needs. MeQ (and worse) is still the most prolific armor save in the game, not 2+...

Oh, I'm not worried about them, just voicing the options which were there until GW updated the online codex.

I quite like Sword and Board anyways. Necrons tarpit other armies deathstars and throw our CC guys against the softer stuff (which is where deathstars shine anyway)

They're still Ideal for eliminating most enemy troop choices.... but then again so are so many other thing in that codex.

Speaking of CC, has any necron player found a way to make Obyron worth it? Outside of challenges, he's not worth his points unless he teleports everyturn. His Counter-blow only works on misses against HIM, not his unit, so nobody every swing at him so I dont get my bonus attacks ;(

Exalted Pariah wrote:Speaking of CC, has any necron player found a way to make Obyron worth it? Outside of challenges, he's not worth his points unless he teleports everyturn. His Counter-blow only works on misses against HIM, not his unit, so nobody every swing at him so I dont get my bonus attacks ;(

I honesty think that our Generic HQ choices are better than any of our special characters.

Oby's pretty salty in CC, as most weapons either strike after him or bounce off his save.

That being said I tend to agree with Sasori hear (although I still like my Imo list). For a few points over Oby you can have a DLord that buffs a squad with Preferred Enemy and Res Orb, has a Semp Weave, and is much faster/more versatile.

Nemesor and Trazyn are still buzzing in my 6th edition head, and Orikan gets a bit more interesting now that people can't null deploy you.

But DLords and Barge Lords are just solid contributors.

Oby does have a Semp Weave as standard, and his ability is vs him or is unit. Throwing him headlong into a IG Blob with 5 Swordguard will wreck face. 15 Attacks from Lychguard (shields to return any Plasma Overwatch shots) + 4 attacks for Oby's charge + 6 for Oby's ability (as more than six are guaranteed to miss) = 25 3+ to hit 2+ to wound power hits = one most-dead blob

Is it a good idea to take the 2+ and the 3++ for the overlord? or thats too much?

TheAzathoth wrote:Is it a good idea to take the 2+ and the 3++ for the overlord? or thats too much?

Take them both, and throw in a Cryptek with a Chronometron (or two!) and you have a mini-Fateweaver unit.

You could have a respectable "Deathstar" using Lychguard and Royal Court. 10 man Lychguard unit, armed with your choice of boards or scythes. 4 Overlords packed with all the close combat bling (SW, MSS, WS, PS), 3 bringing Stormteks with Lightning Fields/Ether Crystals, the last bringing another Lord with an Orb. Granted, that unit runs real close to 1500 points, and you still need a way to get them across the board, but it would be super killy!

Is it just me, or does the Tesseract Labyrinth seem to be a far better buy for Necron lords now? It works really well as a counter-charge piece of equipment, especially against single-model units like MCs. Combined with a Stormtek with Lightning Field, (and MSS) you could kill a Hive Tyrant in a single round of combat after it takes lightning hits, then the MSS makes it hit itself, then it gets sucked into the Tesseract.

McNinja wrote:Is it just me, or does the Tesseract Labyrinth seem to be a far better buy for Necron lords now? It works really well as a counter-charge piece of equipment, especially against single-model units like MCs. Combined with a Stormtek with Lightning Field, (and MSS) you could kill a Hive Tyrant in a single round of combat after it takes lightning hits, then the MSS makes it hit itself, then it gets sucked into the Tesseract.

I haven't looked at the rules in while, it's ICs and MCs only right? Not normal charters. I've always shied away from it because it seemed to situational, but I definitely think 6th warrants a second look.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

McNinja wrote:Is it just me, or does the Tesseract Labyrinth seem to be a far better buy for Necron lords now? It works really well as a counter-charge piece of equipment, especially against single-model units like MCs. Combined with a Stormtek with Lightning Field, (and MSS) you could kill a Hive Tyrant in a single round of combat after it takes lightning hits, then the MSS makes it hit itself, then it gets sucked into the Tesseract.

I haven't looked at the rules in while, it's ICs and MCs only right? Not normal charters. I've always shied away from it because it seemed to situational, but I definitely think 6th warrants a second look.

Nope, it says characters or monstrous creature in BC. Definitely more worth it in 6th.

Does anyone else think the Night scythes rules still aren't properly explained.

It has 2 problems from what I see.

1 The nightscythe is a transport but there is no way to embark units on it. The only way to do so is to have them deployed inside.

2. From what the rules as they stand, if the Nightsythe is destroyed then the units inside will suffer S10 aP2 wounds then be placed in reserve.

obsidianaura wrote:Does anyone else think the Night scythes rules still aren't properly explained.

It has 2 problems from what I see.

1 The nightscythe is a transport but there is no way to embark units on it. The only way to do so is to have them deployed inside.

When I saw the invasion beams, I was a little bummed but mostly excited. For me, it's explained fine, the NS is a drop-off only transport. I would like to be able to put a unit back in, but it's not intended to pick them back up again, which is okay because it still has the best gun the Necrons have access to, so pick the spot on the board that you want the unit, bring it in and drop that unit off the same turn. Now the NS flies around killing things and frustrating your enemy.

obsidianaura wrote:
2. From what the rules as they stand, if the Nightsythe is destroyed then the units inside will suffer S10 aP2 wounds then be placed in reserve.

Don't feed the trolls. There is a whole 'nother thread that is discussing this very idea.

However, this will never be an issue for me, since I don't plan to have a unit inside my NS past the movement phase it enters play (and if my NS gets destroyed before I drop off my guys, that is entirely my fault, even Interceptor type guns fire at the end of my movement, so my unit is out already). My whole purpose for the NS will be to deploy a unit anywhere on the table. With a 36" NS move plus a 6" disembark rule, I can put a unit within rapid fire (12") range of the whole table if my edge is the long edge and most of the table if it's short edge. No reason to go more than 24" in most cases.

I get the feeling that GW didn't intend for it to have a drop off only role as it can carry jetbikes and things.

As for the 2nd issue I just dont want someone arguing it against me :(

PrinceOfMadness wrote:You could have a respectable "Deathstar" using Lychguard and Royal Court. 10 man Lychguard unit, armed with your choice of boards or scythes. 4 Overlords packed with all the close combat bling (SW, MSS, WS, PS), 3 bringing Stormteks with Lightning Fields/Ether Crystals, the last bringing another Lord with an Orb.

I'd have 3 Overlords with CC gubbinz (out front to troll the shooting) + Anrakyr (a bit further back with the Lychguard, to give the unit FC and deal with that Tank). Boardguard if you ask me.

Granted, that unit runs real close to 1500 points, and you still need a way to get them across the board, but it would be super killy!

Stick em in a Nightscythe. Problem Solved

@Tye_Informer: Link please?

McNinja wrote:Is it just me, or does the Tesseract Labyrinth seem to be a far better buy for Necron lords now? It works really well as a counter-charge piece of equipment, especially against single-model units like MCs. Combined with a Stormtek with Lightning Field, (and MSS) you could kill a Hive Tyrant in a single round of combat after it takes lightning hits, then the MSS makes it hit itself, then it gets sucked into the Tesseract.

Tesseract is one of the most undervalued pieces of wargear in my opinion. It's purpose is to kill ICs who have ridiculous re-rollable or super low saves that even a decked out CC overlord would struggle to bring down. My first example is a DE archon with shadowfield. It doesn't matter that I score 3 wounds with my warscythe if he can just save them all, but tesseract levels the playing field. Got an annoying saga of the bear SW character that just won't go down, suck him into oblivion. That's its main use in my view in that it just eliminates any saves an enemy can make which, for the most part, is how ICs survive.

IHateNids wrote:
I meant the Anrakyr model. it was showed in WD, so my mate was saying, and I hoped someone would have a pic of him

Here you go, also from the GW site: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2450296a_99800110017_AnrakyrTraveller01_445x319.jpg

Although this combo is very expensive, I have played a few games with it and it has worked quite well(especially for the relic mission)

I run Nemesor with a small unit of immortals with chronotek and veil tek

I run obyron with a large unit of gauss immortals with a chronotek and overlord with weave shifter orb MSS and warscythe.

Nemesor deep strikes in, chrono to land in a pretty good condition. Obyron safe lands, with the overlord with weave on the outside facing my opponent. Very few people really want to charge a unit with obyron and a necron overlord. The unit shoots whatever it is, usually dropping it cause if I have it going against a tank I give the gauss immortals tank hunter. Next turn Obyron and the overlord join together and go wreck face. If I want I have obyron charge a unit that I don't worry about the overwatch, I have seen him eat entire units by himself solo. With the change to power weapons he has become much more powerful since you need an axe or a fist to hurt him and even most ICs dont have to weapon skill to kill him in one round.

edit: Sorry about the poor grammar trying to complete a post before I had to leave

Neorealist wrote:

IHateNids wrote:
I meant the Anrakyr model. it was showed in WD, so my mate was saying, and I hoped someone would have a pic of him

Here you go, also from the GW site: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2450296a_99800110017_AnrakyrTraveller01_445x319.jpg

Thanks. He looks better than I expected

Yeah i do enjoy his look too. he is one of the cooler Necron HQs in my opinion so it's nice that they've done him justice.

Leth wrote:Although this combo is very expensive, I have played a few games with it and it has worked quite well(especially for the relic mission)

I run Nemesor with a small unit of immortals with chronotek and veil tek

I run obyron with a large unit of gauss immortals with a chronotek and overlord with weave shifter orb MSS and warscythe.

Nemesor deep strikes in, chrono to land in a pretty good condition. Obyron safe lands, with the overlord with weave on the outside facing my opponent. Very few people really want to charge a unit with obyron and a necron overlord. The unit shoots whatever it is, usually dropping it cause if I have it going against a tank I give the gauss immortals tank hunter. Next turn Obyron and the overlord join together and go wreck face. If I want I have obyron charge a unit that I don't worry about the overwatch, I have seen him eat entire units by himself solo. With the change to power weapons he has become much more powerful since you need an axe or a fist to hurt him and even most ICs dont have to weapon skill to kill him in one round.

Leth,
I really like that unit. I've been using Tesla Immortals with Veilteks since the codex came out, but they always seemed to lack some punch. Overall, I think that I like your arrangement better than Obyron with a unit of Lychguard (as I unusually see). Rather than a veiltek, I'm seeing people propose using a NightScythe for Namesor. It's more expensive, but you could replace the veiltek with a stormtek to wreck the vehicles better.

Anpu-adom wrote:

Leth wrote:Although this combo is very expensive, I have played a few games with it and it has worked quite well(especially for the relic mission)

I run Nemesor with a small unit of immortals with chronotek and veil tek

I run obyron with a large unit of gauss immortals with a chronotek and overlord with weave shifter orb MSS and warscythe.

Nemesor deep strikes in, chrono to land in a pretty good condition. Obyron safe lands, with the overlord with weave on the outside facing my opponent. Very few people really want to charge a unit with obyron and a necron overlord. The unit shoots whatever it is, usually dropping it cause if I have it going against a tank I give the gauss immortals tank hunter. Next turn Obyron and the overlord join together and go wreck face. If I want I have obyron charge a unit that I don't worry about the overwatch, I have seen him eat entire units by himself solo. With the change to power weapons he has become much more powerful since you need an axe or a fist to hurt him and even most ICs dont have to weapon skill to kill him in one round.

Leth,
I really like that unit. I've been using Tesla Immortals with Veilteks since the codex came out, but they always seemed to lack some punch. Overall, I think that I like your arrangement better than Obyron with a unit of Lychguard (as I unusually see). Rather than a veiltek, I'm seeing people propose using a NightScythe for Namesor. It's more expensive, but you could replace the veiltek with a stormtek to wreck the vehicles better.

The only problem with using a vieltek to re-roll scatter is that you cannot do that, even in 6th. Fleet allows you do do so. The Chronometron does not, and has never allowed you to do that.

Mmm... I'm gonna try a Triple Court list this coming weekend. Honestly, I'd run Obyron if I had his model (gotta invest in one I reckon) for a third HQ in leu of a Veiltek/Overlord, but hey, gotta deal with what I have.....

I am using it to re-roll one of the d6s in the scatter, not the scatter die or the entire roll. Chronometron works fine for that.

6th will seriously buff Warriors, and I doubt Scarab Farm will be nearly as good.

DOOMBREAD wrote:6th will seriously buff Warriors, and I doubt Scarab Farm will be nearly as good.

Even with the fearless bump? Now we can tarpit anything... forever, or as long as needed.

Gangrel767 wrote:

DOOMBREAD wrote:6th will seriously buff Warriors, and I doubt Scarab Farm will be nearly as good.

Even with the fearless bump? Now we can tarpit anything... forever, or as long as needed.

Until they all die to the S6 Mauls everyone seems to be following in love with .

The removal of Stealth concerns me the most, though the changes to Nightfighting may mitigate that a bit. I think overall I like their new assault movement better.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Gangrel767 wrote:

DOOMBREAD wrote:6th will seriously buff Warriors, and I doubt Scarab Farm will be nearly as good.

Even with the fearless bump? Now we can tarpit anything... forever, or as long as needed.

Until they all die to the S6 Mauls everyone seems to be following in love with .

The removal of Stealth concerns me the most, though the changes to Nightfighting may mitigate that a bit. I think overall I like their new assault movement better.

I agree, but I find Gauss is more than enough to wreck vehicles. Scarabs got better against vehicles, as when you wreck it, they cannot assault you the next turn. But Scarabs put themselves in a compromising position often.

Zid wrote:
I agree, but I find Gauss is more than enough to wreck vehicles. Scarabs got better against vehicles, as when you wreck it, they cannot assault you the next turn. But Scarabs put themselves in a compromising position often.

On the flip side though, they absolutely wreck parking lots now. If multi assaulting (and not getting +1 Attack) you need what, 3 Bases to wreck any AV 10 Rear vehicle? 12(2/3)=8{4 Entropic hits} so AV 6...8(1/2)=4 HPs. Thats...pretty frikken awesome. So a unit of 13 (10+ Spyders) could conceivably wreck 4 Vehicles in one turn. Not a whole lot of units in the game that can boast that kind of prowess.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Zid wrote:
I agree, but I find Gauss is more than enough to wreck vehicles. Scarabs got better against vehicles, as when you wreck it, they cannot assault you the next turn. But Scarabs put themselves in a compromising position often.

On the flip side though, they absolutely wreck parking lots now. If multi assaulting (and not getting +1 Attack) you need what, 3 Bases to wreck any AV 10 Rear vehicle? 12(2/3)=8{4 Entropic hits} so AV 6...8(1/2)=4 HPs. Thats...pretty frikken awesome. So a unit of 13 (10+ Spyders) could conceivably wreck 4 Vehicles in one turn. Not a whole lot of units in the game that can boast that kind of prowess.

I totally agree, I just feel that scarabs are good at killing mech, but not useful for much else. With the fearless changes foes can charge you to stay tied up for a couple turns so you cannot shoot at them. Course, there's always a bad for a good lol. If scarabs could only kill fliers :(

Sasori wrote:
They are a lot more killy than Wraiths, but Wraiths are going to be the better choice if you don't want to bring a Destroyer Lord with them. I'd say Wraiths are also a Tad more survivable, with their 3++, but TP are T5, with a 4+ RP, so it ends up being fairly close, Mathwise.

I really like the preats but Iam not fully convinced yet( but want to be ), so:
What is your average Squad size? Always using the RoDs?
And I think you are playing them more defensivly as a counter assault squad?

Hive2003 wrote:

Sasori wrote:
They are a lot more killy than Wraiths, but Wraiths are going to be the better choice if you don't want to bring a Destroyer Lord with them. I'd say Wraiths are also a Tad more survivable, with their 3++, but TP are T5, with a 4+ RP, so it ends up being fairly close, Mathwise.

I really like the preats but Iam not fully convinced yet( but want to be ), so:
What is your average Squad size? Always using the RoDs?
And I think you are playing them more defensivly as a counter assault squad?

I've been using them offensivly, with a squad size of 5-6. You really need the Dlord to go with them. They can function as a counter-assault unit, it really depends on the rest of your army setup, and your opponent. Proxy them a few times, to see if you end up liking them.

Sasori wrote:
I've been using them offensivly, with a squad size of 5-6. You really need the Dlord to go with them. They can function as a counter-assault unit, it really depends on the rest of your army setup, and your opponent. Proxy them a few times, to see if you end up liking them.

Pretty solid advice as always.

I've been (stubbornly) sticking with the VB/PC combo, but they basically double as the high AV contingency in my army, so that works pretty well. I run them in a heavy JI list, so I allocate about 800 to 900 points to TPs and Wraiths. I started with 6 TPs, but I've been slowly swapping Wraiths for more TPs. My reasoning is, since I've already bought the Res Orb and the Preferred enemy, each 40 pt TP body is a little better then each ~40 point Wraith body. However I need the Wraiths for WC's and cover walls still, so it's definitely a balancing act.

With all the obsession over the Necron French Breakfast, I think the Ghost Arks have flown under the radar. With the change to rapid fire, 4 hullpoints, 5+ Jink save, and players trying to fit in all the twin-linked Str7 they can to deal with flyers and Rhinos, the Ghost Ark/Warrior Phalanx is really powerful.

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:With all the obsession over the Necron French Breakfast, I think the Ghost Arks have flown under the radar. With the change to rapid fire, 4 hullpoints, 5+ Jink save, and players trying to fit in all the twin-linked Str7 they can to deal with flyers and Rhinos, the Ghost Ark/Warrior Phalanx is really powerful.

I agree. Add in the changes to Night Fighting and you can hang out 6" behind your Phalanx on the flanks and get that cover save to the 3+ range. Pretty bad ass.

Also, Overwatch makes those phalanxes a bit more respectable in CC, and Lords are challenge winners.

Ok, a bit off-topic, but what armies do you think will be good allies for Necrons?

IHateNids wrote:Ok, a bit off-topic, but what armies do you think will be good allies for Necrons?

Frankly I don't think necrons need any allies. Maybe just for flavor you can take some Tau for long range fire power or maybe orks for just bodies to suck up shots for them.

I can see some syndergy with GK using flamers/incinerators as necrons don't have that much deny cover abilities.

Haa anyone mentioned that annhilation barges are excellent anty-flyers? Played 2 last game, they killed 2 Vendettas and a Stormtalon. I mean, you roll 8 dices for 2 times, wich means you should get 2 or 3 six, so 6 or 9 hits at ST7, and you can glance them to death. And don't forget the hull mounted Gauss.

Drew77 wrote:Haa anyone mentioned that annhilation barges are excellent anty-flyers? Played 2 last game, they killed 2 Vendettas and a Stormtalon. I mean, you roll 8 dices for 2 times, wich means you should get 2 or 3 six, so 6 or 9 hits at ST7, and you can glance them to death. And don't forget the hull mounted Gauss.

I'm pretty sure I'd rather take the underslung tesla cannon. I mean, if you're going flyer hunting I'd rather have a 1/18 chance to have 3 str 6 shots and 3 chances to glance av 12 on a 6, than have a 1/18 chance to have a str 5 hit that has one chance to glance AV 11-14.

Yea I am having fun with ork allies. They are a nice source of cheap/durable scoring units. Will probably have to work in a annihilation barge for the anti-flyer capabilities(didn't really like them before, mainly cause people were spamming them)

I was thinking that a warboss with meganobz in a battle wagon would be a pretty solid offensive unit/great scoring unit. Even have the meganobz disembark and have the battlewagon deffrolla around and the warboss goes boarding planking.

Lots of combos abound. Also took a dakkajet, it was really nice in the necron army. The turn it wagghhhhs it just removes something

Yea, Crons are probably the army with the least need for allies. Unless you want some artillery or something

With all of the fun with Doomscythes, is barge spam not as viable anymore? Thinking of running a silly list with 6 A. Barges



*Yes I realize I still need 40 points somewhere

Barges try to tesla zap any infantry and the night scythes drop in warriors with 2 voltaicteks each to glance vehicles to death. Though all the barges will drop like flies when serious anti tank/blasts hit them

I reckon that'll be hilarious. As for 40 pts, put a lightning field on two of the Volteks, that way at least two of the Warrior squads have a small amount of assault defence, in addition to Overwatch. that'll leave 20 points for a T-Lab on one of the overlords, then he can go MC hunting.

tautemplar wrote:

Drew77 wrote:Haa anyone mentioned that annhilation barges are excellent anty-flyers? Played 2 last game, they killed 2 Vendettas and a Stormtalon. I mean, you roll 8 dices for 2 times, wich means you should get 2 or 3 six, so 6 or 9 hits at ST7, and you can glance them to death. And don't forget the hull mounted Gauss.

I'm pretty sure I'd rather take the underslung tesla cannon. I mean, if you're going flyer hunting I'd rather have a 1/18 chance to have 3 str 6 shots and 3 chances to glance av 12 on a 6, than have a 1/18 chance to have a str 5 hit that has one chance to glance AV 11-14.

Yep, but Gauss cannon are AP3, and once the flyers are gone, marines & friends won't love them, don't you agree?

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:With all the obsession over the Necron French Breakfast, I think the Ghost Arks have flown under the radar. With the change to rapid fire, 4 hullpoints, 5+ Jink save, and players trying to fit in all the twin-linked Str7 they can to deal with flyers and Rhinos, the Ghost Ark/Warrior Phalanx is really powerful.

I agree. Add in the changes to Night Fighting and you can hang out 6" behind your Phalanx on the flanks and get that cover save to the 3+ range. Pretty bad ass.

Also, Overwatch makes those phalanxes a bit more respectable in CC, and Lords are challenge winners.

In the 1500 point Mirror match I played last week, his one Ghost Ark was his Star Unit. Not only did it guard his scoring units until it was time to grab the objectives, but it also put out a lot of fire. We almost need to stop thinking of the Ghost Ark as transport and more of a light tank. I mean... it has an awesome volume of fire (which can head at up to 3 different targets each turn!) Plus it's very survivable, even against other Necron players.

It always has been a light tank. Hijack it for a Court full of LanceTeks, with some Warriors nearby to get repaired/take the assaults. Bingo

i ran a sqsuad of GK termies with libby attached as allies for my crons....they just rocked. - game was vrs orks, and those termies pretty much killed the entire ork army single handed. they did loose almost the entire squad...but still. they just WTHROFLPWNED whatever they looked at.