So, I have been considering purchasing foam trays to transport my O&G army in. The army contains 90 Orcs (Black/Savage/regular) and 160 Night Goblins, plus a Black Orc Warboss, a Black Orc Battlestandard bearer, and about 8 Goblin characters, and a Doom Diver. I'm not interested in a case, as I can just make one myself.

My question is this: which company makes a better product? Battlefoam is pretty well known and loved(?), but they really charge a lot of money for their product. Their standard trays which cost $15 can only hold about 60 Night Goblins, so if I wanted to have all of my army encased in trays I could be spending well over $80.

KR seems to have much more reasonable prices: their Core Set F2HS-M can hold approx. 108 Orcs, be they Blorcs, Savages, or just plain 'ol boys and it costs just $30. However, KR also seems much less well known than Battlefoam, and their cases/trays are a little on the utilitarian side.

So, does anyone on here have a solid recommendation for me? Remember, I am looking for affordability here.

Thanks!

_Tim?

KR, everytime.

Affordability and Battlefoam to not mix. That's about the most expensive foam storage option there is that would still be portable.

I have Battlefoam products and I have never had cause to complain. I have shipped a Battlefoam bag via UPS and haven't had a problem. I've dropped the bags, carried them around like luggage, dropped things on them, and have never had a model break.

I have no experience with KR, but I can say that I have been quite satisfied with my Battlefoam products. There's a few things I would nitpick, but as for protecting my models, Battlefoam has given me no problems whatsoever. In fact, having had Battlefoam bags for a while now, I have a tendency to treat my model bag with far less care than I used to because the product simply inspires confidence.

I have also never had a bag rip, tear, or fail in any way.

I prefer battlefoam

especially after using GW cases lol!

Portable Warfare!

SickSix wrote:Portable Warfare!

Care to elaborate?

I've only looked at them because they offer a pink bag for my wife. But when I realized that no battlefoam trays could fit inside, I passed. I have no real interest in the Pluck Foam.

The KR foam is nice, but it's a bit too soft for my tastes and doesn't have a rigid bottom which I personally prefer. I hate their bags, which is why I never get any, and their trays don't fit any of the battlefoam bags either. If they did, I'd buy more of em.

KR isn't a BAD case, but their structural integrity is reinforced by cardboard boxes your miniatures slide into. That may bother some people. Our DA player has one and it suits him just fine.

I've got two BF cases, and had a handful of Sabol cases throughout a couple years. Gave the Sabol stuff to my roommate when I got the BF ones. I like them. They feel sturdy and put up with the abuse I deal to them. The 1520 is nice because of the rollers, and the 720 is nice because it folds out when it opens, so the front AND top are both open, making it easier to cram those last two sheets of foam in there.

Since you just want the foam specifically, the easiest deciding factor would be whether you want custom cut foam or not. If you want to pony up for foam, then go for BF. If you're just thinking pluckfoam, then go cheap and get the KR (or even Sabol if you can get a deal on it). No reason not to.

When I think about the cost of BF compared to a cheaper product, I look at how much more I was able to fit onto a BF tray compared to a Sabol size tray. Don't get me wrong, I have and love my Portable Warfare case and the Blufoam is the best pluck foam I've ever used, but I prefer the BF bags I've owned for army size games like 40k, or for when you have a large collection of models you want to transport. I did see one of the KR backpacks over the weekend, and thought it was pretty nice though.

My vote is Battlefoam. I own and have used pretty much all the alternatives(home made, magnetized tool boxes, tackle boxes, KR, Sabol, Portable Warfare, GW, a few lesser known cases) and Battlefoam is the best hands down.

I've only used Sabol and Battlefoam and my preference for Battlefoam is simply that it can carry more models than an Army Transport - important for an ork army. I have no experience with KR.

What I CAN tell you, is that my friend had his battlefoam full of necrons knocked off his motorcycle while riding home in a storm. Not only was the case undamaged by the fall, but the miniatures were undamaged too.

I have a KR Multicase and a BF 432, and Battlefoam gets my vote every time, no questions.

For me, its an investment, and BF feels infinitely sturdier and built to last over my KR.

Read through this thread -> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/453130.page
Synopsis: Battlefoam is too expensive, what is a good alternative?
Answer: 90% people said they liked KR much better and it was cheaper.

Oh, and just buy the foam, its a little foolish to buy the cases (they are way overpriced), I just use a small luggage suitcase.

If you learn how to take care of KR you are golden

Ryan_A wrote:Read through this thread -> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/453130.page
Synopsis: Battlefoam is too expensive, what is a good alternative?
Answer: 90% people said they liked KR much better and it was cheaper.

Oh, and just buy the foam, its a little foolish to buy the cases (they are way overpriced), I just use a small luggage suitcase.

Yeah, You also have people suggesting cotton fluff in cardboard in that thread. Not sure I'd trust their opinion on anything.

I would have to say KR every time.

The cases are ideal for storage as well as transport.

Also KR are very keen to sponsor events and build good will with the gaming community. They have helped with prize support for my last couple of tournaments.

leontheconfused wrote:I would have to say KR every time.

The cases are ideal for storage as well as transport.

Also KR are very keen to sponsor events and build good will with the gaming community. They have helped with prize support for my last couple of tournaments.

Cause BattleFoam doesn't sponsor anything
Or do anything else within the gaming community .
And they're definitely not good for storage or transport .
And they certainly don't make a model designed to go on a plane

They're more expensive. They're also custom cut, the foam is more durable, and the bags are of higher quality. Make of it what you will. If you don't feel they're worth it for the money you want to pay, then perhaps another option is better for you. Doesn't change the fact that BattleFoam is still the highest quality on the market.

hotsauceman1 wrote:If you learn how to take care of KR you are golden

You shouldn't need to learn how to take care of something that is essentially a portable padded cupboard. It should protect what's in it and stand up to punishment when being lugged around. If a case doesn't do that, it's failed it's selling point.

Battle foam cases do this.

-Loki- wrote:

hotsauceman1 wrote:If you learn how to take care of KR you are golden

You shouldn't need to learn how to take care of something that is essentially a portable padded cupboard. It should protect what's in it and stand up to punishment when being lugged around. If a case doesn't do that, it's failed it's selling point.

Battle foam cases do this.

I'm pretty neutral here, but if the cardboard boxes are sat in one of their aluminium cases then what's the problem? From what I've seen of those cases they are practically bulletproof.

cincydooley wrote:

Ryan_A wrote:Read through this thread -> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/453130.page
Synopsis: Battlefoam is too expensive, what is a good alternative?
Answer: 90% people said they liked KR much better and it was cheaper.

Oh, and just buy the foam, its a little foolish to buy the cases (they are way overpriced), I just use a small luggage suitcase.

Yeah, You also have people suggesting cotton fluff in cardboard in that thread. Not sure I'd trust their opinion on anything.

The forum wasn't on the exact same topic so don't be so critical. And besides doing what you are suggesting isn't at all logical, it would be similar to say "This thread shouldn't be read or considered because somebody mentioned stepping on your models and not carring, so nobodies oppinions on this thread are valid." I have no idea why you think the thread should be ignored or why you posted that except maybe for the reason to ?troll?

ruminator wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

hotsauceman1 wrote:If you learn how to take care of KR you are golden

You shouldn't need to learn how to take care of something that is essentially a portable padded cupboard. It should protect what's in it and stand up to punishment when being lugged around. If a case doesn't do that, it's failed it's selling point.

Battle foam cases do this.

I'm pretty neutral here, but if the cardboard boxes are sat in one of their aluminium cases then what's the problem? From what I've seen of those cases they are practically bulletproof.

Not having a dig really at KR itself, just that comment. If you need to learn how to take care of something that's meant to be protecting something else, how well can it be protecting it?

-Loki- wrote:

Not having a dig really at KR itself, just that comment. If you need to learn how to take care of something that's meant to be protecting something else, how well can it be protecting it?

I agree. Battlefoam is virtually idiot proof. All you have to do is make sure you model fits comfortably in a given cell and fill the bag up with trays. Previous bags that I have had just aren't sturdy. I can't chuck them in the closet and pile stuff on top of them. The Battlefoam bags are not rigid metal cases, but they are surprisingly sturdy, so much so that I don't really think I would ever need a more solid bag, unless I intended to run over my model case with a truck, and that isn't really the point. The point is that you can handle a Battlefoam bag roughly and your models will be safe. It will even stand up to unlucky accidents. I wouldn't bat an eye about rolling my Battlefoam bag packed full of models down a flight of stairs.

Battlefoam bags are an investment for your models. It looks like most of your army would fit in a PAK 432, figuring two night goblin trays and three black orc trays, or something similar. That's $144 for the bag and the trays, and you can probably pick it up when there's a sale or something.

You can always go with standard trays designed for another army if it has the cells that you need. I regularly use a Space Marine tray for my IG models, and lots of other models as well, because I like the assortment of cell sizes. Some of my models have rather dynamic poses and I need the variation. I put Heavy Gear Blitz! models into an IG heavy weapon tray with some home made dividers in the cells. In a pinch, you can fit a Chimera into a Leman Russ tank cell. If the model fits comfortably in the cell, then you can put it in the cell with no problem. Romeo at Battlefoam designs the trays based off of the "standard" models, and the company typically does a pretty good job, but the point is that buying a Battlefoam bag for one army does not always mean that the trays are shoehorned into only being usable for those models.

The trays do not degrade, they stand up to an amazing amount of abuse, they do not get glue on your models, and they offer fantastic protection.

Of course, what you are looking for is a recommendation for something other than Battlefoam, so this is not terribly helpful. The only other not-so-helpful thing I will say is that Battlefoam is more expansive than other army transport products, but not always by much.

I love me some battlefoam. I have never used of handled Kr in real life so I have no opinion there.

KR gets my vote. I've got one of them briefcase style affairs, and it's usually packed with my WIP models. I've had it tossed around, dropped it (butterfingers, me), and my godchildren have used it as a kicking bag (stopped them quick there), and it's held up remarkably well. The models inside have survived all the time.

It's now scuffed and scratched and dented, but I love my KR. It's due for replacing soon, though - one of the hinges is starting to die.

Ryan_A wrote:

cincydooley wrote:

Ryan_A wrote:Read through this thread -> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/453130.page
Synopsis: Battlefoam is too expensive, what is a good alternative?
Answer: 90% people said they liked KR much better and it was cheaper.

Oh, and just buy the foam, its a little foolish to buy the cases (they are way overpriced), I just use a small luggage suitcase.

Yeah, You also have people suggesting cotton fluff in cardboard in that thread. Not sure I'd trust their opinion on anything.

The forum wasn't on the exact same topic so don't be so critical. And besides doing what you are suggesting isn't at all logical, it would be similar to say "This thread shouldn't be read or considered because somebody mentioned stepping on your models and not carring, so nobodies oppinions on this thread are valid." I have no idea why you think the thread should be ignored or why you posted that except maybe for the reason to ?troll?

I'm sorry. I should have put the at the end to let you know I was being sarcastic.

#failuresoftheinternetconversation

cincydooley wrote:
I'm sorry. I should have put the at the end to let you know I was being sarcastic.

#failuresoftheinternetconversation

long night for me, stress, my brain dead sorry for being so brief and rude.
Ugh, its 7am and I havn't slept at all.

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote: My question is this: which company makes a better product?

Depends how you judge 'better product'.

Battlefoam bags have a better 'feel' to them, and a better build quality than the equivalent KR bag (Kaiser or backpack). Battlefoam foam is harder and feels more expansive than the soft, blue KR foam. So I'd say that the 'quality' of the materials is better in Battlefoam.

However, this doesn't actually translate into better protection for your models.

The Battlefoam system has quite spacious, hard foam slots in a canvas bag. The KR system has soft blue foam that 'hugs' your models restricting all movement, which is then placed in hard card cases, which (if you carry them) are then transported in a canvas bag. I'd say this KR system offers better actual protection and the whole system (say, a Kaiser 2 bag with two KR Multicases) is about the same cost as a standard Battlefoam bag.

The KR system has the advantage of modularity as well. Each of my armies fits in either one or two KR card Multicases, and I store them in these. When I want to play a game, I just slot the multicases into my Kaiser bag and go. This means I only ever have to buy one transport bag, and when I build new armies I just buy another card case.

ArbitorIan wrote:

The Battlefoam system has quite spacious, hard foam slots in a canvas bag. The KR system has soft blue foam that 'hugs' your models restricting all movement, which is then placed in hard card cases, which (if you carry them) are then transported in a canvas bag. I'd say this KR system offers better actual protection and the whole system (say, a Kaiser 2 bag with two KR Multicases) is about the same cost as a standard Battlefoam bag.

The problem with foam that "hugs", is it can cause paint to rub off. Also, Battle Foam slots may seem spacious, but the models aren't moving around like you seem to think. I've intentionally shaken my trays around with little to no model jiggle to show how well they work to people asking about it(pretty much my entire group has switched from Sabol to Battle Foam after they saw and asked about my various cases).

I can't really comment on Battlefoam, as I haven't bought one of their cases before. However, I do have to say that I got one of the double aluminium cases from KR last year and I'm really pleased with it, so much better than the GW ones that I was using before.

The KR trays/cardboard inserts are designed to be modular. You can use them to store stuff at home and then just take what you need in your aluminium case. You really don't just wander round carrying a cardboard box unless you're a cheapskate though. You can happily stand on the aluminium case without it breaking so not sure why anyone's worried about this.

On soft backpacks the battlefoam overall package does seem a quality prduct, but you are paying more - so a good package if you can get all your army in one case and won't chop and change all that often. If you flit from unit to unit - army to army then the modular basis of KR comes into it's own.

Tim, is there a particular reason you aren't interested in Sabol? I've used Sabol trays and bags for sometime and find them very useful. They'd have my vote.

Platuan4th wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:

The Battlefoam system has quite spacious, hard foam slots in a canvas bag. The KR system has soft blue foam that 'hugs' your models restricting all movement, which is then placed in hard card cases, which (if you carry them) are then transported in a canvas bag. I'd say this KR system offers better actual protection and the whole system (say, a Kaiser 2 bag with two KR Multicases) is about the same cost as a standard Battlefoam bag.

The problem with foam that "hugs", is it can cause paint to rub off. Also, Battle Foam slots may seem spacious, but the models aren't moving around like you seem to think. I've intentionally shaken my trays around with little to no model jiggle to show how well they work to people asking about it(pretty much my entire group has switched from Sabol to Battle Foam after they saw and asked about my various cases).

Ok, makes sense.

Though I must say, I've never experienced paint rubbing off in my blue foam - you can, of course, order a number of different sizes of compartment, but I pack them pretty tightly. And no jiggle at all...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ruminator wrote:The KR trays/cardboard inserts are designed to be modular. You can use them to store stuff at home and then just take what you need in your aluminium case. You really don't just wander round carrying a cardboard box unless you're a cheapskate though. You can happily stand on the aluminium case without it breaking so not sure why anyone's worried about this.

Weirdly, I'm not a fan of the aluminium cases - they have no advantage over Battlefoam in 'modularity', since in both situations, you need to to swap trays of models into your case.

I'd always use the Multicase/Kaiser bag combo, which gives me storage/army/case modularity as well as the ability to swap trays as you describe.

The aluminum cases ARE pretty tough though - if we're looking at serious protection, then the alumnium KR cases and the plastic GW cases are the 'hardest' on the market...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and guys

PLEASE add your reviews and recommendations to this article - http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Model_Case_Reviews_and_Recommendations

This question comes up every couple of weeks, so it would be great to have everyone's opinions in the same place!

I've got 4 or 5 different Battlefoam cases that I use for transport. Most of my armies are now permanently in Battlefoam trays for normal storage and I just slide them into whatever case fits what I'm using that day. It's a great system.

When you consider that these armies can and will last you the rest of your life, it makes sense to spend a little cash on storage. It's a long term investment to protect a long term investment.

I started with Sabol. I tried KR. I now use Battlefoam. Doesn't mean you should, but I doubt you'd be sorry... I don't know anyone that's bought Battlefoam cases and then regretted it. Normally they get hooked and try and move everything to Battlefoam.

From this thread, I take it then that Battlefoam>KR>Sabol. I'm pretty much new to gaming myself and will probably need to invest in some sort of army cary case for the future.

spacewolf407 wrote:From this thread, I take it then that Battlefoam>KR>Sabol. I'm pretty much new to gaming myself and will probably need to invest in some sort of army cary case for the future.

Again, from the thread, it depends what you're looking for

Cases that feel/look nice?

Battlefoam > KR

But, I'd still argue that for actual protection of models, or for storage/modularity

KR > Battlefoam



To be honest, both systems are decent miniature storage systems - capable of keeping models safe from harm, having options for storage and modularity (since Battlefoam started selling KR-style card storage boxes for their trays), and being expandable. One just costs twice as much.

/facetiousness

As the others say. I've tried both. Battlefoam is more expensive but in general higher quality, KR is cheaper and quite decent for the price.

I would go with KR, even if you do have an extra $150 to throw away (depending on your army's size) wouldn't you rather spend that $150 on more models, a videogame station, a new army, etc? I know I plan to spend about $80 on KR in the next couple days, I priced it out on BF and they wanted me to pay over $160. I think I'll save myself about $80, and besides, KR protects your models better anyway (tighter fit), of course, it is debatable.

ArbitorIan wrote:But, I'd still argue that for actual protection of models, or for storage/modularity

Semi rigid foam beats soft foam for protection every day. Whether it hugs it or not, it's left to the case only to do the protection, rather than the case and the foam together. Seeing as there's people already posted in this thread about shaking and roughly moving Battlefoam cases with nary a scratch on a model, I think you're taking the wrong message if you think Battlefoam doesn't protect. Or selectively ignoring posts that disagree with you.

-Loki- wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:But, I'd still argue that for actual protection of models, or for storage/modularity

Semi rigid foam beats soft foam for protection every day. Whether it hugs it or not, it's left to the case only to do the protection, rather than the case and the foam together. Seeing as there's people already posted in this thread about shaking and roughly moving Battlefoam cases with nary a scratch on a model, I think you're taking the wrong message if you think Battlefoam doesn't protect. Or selectively ignoring posts that disagree with you.

The custom cut trays from BF I have for a great many models/vehicles are perfect. They fit like a glove. Hard to damage anything like that (although I do tend to prop up models with flying bases/long stems/wobbly proportions so they are snug top and bottom as well).

I picked up the battle foam stacker box and a tray for my assault marines. I personally think that this is one of my better hobby investments... Much better than the plano (walmart pistol case).

I've never even seen a Battlefoam case, let alone use one so I can't make that comparison, but I love my KR cases, and don't have an issue with paint rubbing.

It's the modularity that wins it for me - I have a single Kaiser2 bag, then my various armies are sorted into their own cardboard cases (one for my two Uncharted Seas fleets, a couple for my Confrontation, etc). Whatever I'm playing I just put into the bag and off I go. I also have an Aquila for skirmish games - if I want something specific out of my big cases I can just pull the tray, stick it in the Aquila and take that.

Battlefoam has really nice cases, but they're not that cheap, and they can take a while to deliver (and often take a good while for custom tray orders).

KR cases have good sized soft foam trays (I fit around 80 base infantry to a tray (2 to a slot)), and personally like the Alluminium and modular card cases.

They're also cheaper than Battlefoam, which is a major plus for me.

-Loki- wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:But, I'd still argue that for actual protection of models, or for storage/modularity

Semi rigid foam beats soft foam for protection every day. Whether it hugs it or not, it's left to the case only to do the protection, rather than the case and the foam together. Seeing as there's people already posted in this thread about shaking and roughly moving Battlefoam cases with nary a scratch on a model, I think you're taking the wrong message if you think Battlefoam doesn't protect. Or selectively ignoring posts that disagree with you.

Sorry, I have friends who use Battlefoam, I've seen their custom trays, etc, I even have a Pack Mini myself. I'm not saying that 'Battlefoam doesn't protect'.

However, I think I wasn't making my point clear.

Both systems offer as much protection as you're ever likely to need for your models. There are plenty of people posting on here on both sides who will say that they've never had a problem with either system. In a straight out contest, I would say that the KR full system offers slightly better protection (soft foam, rigid card case & canvas bag vs semi-rigid foam & canvas bag), but it's a moot point. You'd have to be doing the case some serious, regular damage to actually see a difference, and in that case you're better off going for a hard plastic or metal case (like the KR aluminium, or the GW plastic case).

Battlefoam costs significantly more. It doesn't offer significantly more protection.

Though both companies offer large ranges of custom foam to fit certain models/armies, Battlefoam's custom foam service is better and their pre-cut range bigger. Though both companies have very modular and easily storable systems, KRs modularity and storability is slightly better (no tray swapping when you get home).

Battlefoam's range is less confusing - KR is well known for having a confusing tray naming system if you're not used to it. Battlefoam look cooler, and it's made of more expensive materials. If these last few points justify the 50/60% price jump for you, then go for it.

ArbitorIan wrote:KRs modularity and storability is slightly better (no tray swapping when you get home).

How is there no tray swapping when KRs modularity is built around tray swapping? Sure, you're swapping groups of trays at a time, but the whole KR experience is based around storing trays in bundles in cardboard boxes, and swapping them in and out of a hard case when you want to use whatever is in those bundles. It's tray swapping, even if they're grouped in cardboard boxes.

If you're sticking with a single case of either company, and you have a significantly large collection, you'll be doing plenty of tray swapping with both products. The question is - are you sure you won't be transporting unneeded trays when you group them into carboard boxes, or do you want the flexibility of swapping per tray.

I don't use any foam currently, and am concerned about paint rubbing off. I've heard the KR foam is softer and helps avoid this. Can anyone who has used it (or preferably, both) confirm that or comment on it?

I use Battlefoam, and I'll be honest, I've had paint rub off one model - a primed finecast Hive Guard. My finished and sealed models haven't had the problem, so I'm willing to put it down to the primer not sticking to the finecast resin as well as it should have, likely due to release agents.

I've used GW mostly cases over the years, and some pluckfoam stuff from a branch I cant remember the name of. But if you really want a quality product that keeps your models safe, has loads of room and is build to last then Battlefoam is simply best. People tend to nag about prices, but guys, seriously. A good product costs money. And please dont gimme that BS that you dont need to fork over a lot of cash for something good. You want quallity, you pay for it. And battlefoam has quality to spare. even if their infomercials are cheesy as all hell

I most would just repeat what AribtorIan has posted so will just add +1 to that and add that I thought that KR does custom cut trays too if that is a big driver for you.

Oh and in terms of survivability, my guard currently reside in a KR cardcase that has been ripped since the day I got it (freebie from Wayland), If it has held out inspite of the damage for 3 years or tournament i'd say an undammaged one will okay.

RiTides wrote:I don't use any foam currently, and am concerned about paint rubbing off. I've heard the KR foam is softer and helps avoid this. Can anyone who has used it (or preferably, both) confirm that or comment on it?

I'm on my 5th/6th KR case and have never had that to be a problem. I would love to say that was down to properly varnishing but I never quite get round to that!

As for BF I did look into them and tried them out but chose not go with it on aesthetics and soft bags. The foam always seemed fine though.

-Loki- wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:KRs modularity and storability is slightly better (no tray swapping when you get home).

How is there no tray swapping when KRs modularity is built around tray swapping? Sure, you're swapping groups of trays at a time, but the whole KR experience is based around storing trays in bundles in cardboard boxes, and swapping them in and out of a hard case when you want to use whatever is in those bundles. It's tray swapping, even if they're grouped in cardboard boxes.

If you're sticking with a single case of either company, and you have a significantly large collection, you'll be doing plenty of tray swapping with both products. The question is - are you sure you won't be transporting unneeded trays when you group them into carboard boxes, or do you want the flexibility of swapping per tray.

The system you describe is only the case with the aluminium cases.

In the KR Kaiser/card case system, the canvas bags (the Kaiser bags) carry the card cases, not the individual trays. So, when I want to play with my CSM army, I pick the card CSM army box off the shelf and drop it in the Kaiser bag, and then leave. No trays are taken out or swapped between cases. No models are taken out and swapped. All my armies are stored in the card cases, which are very cheap. I only have to buy a Kaiser bag once. My Kaiser bag expands to hold one or two card cases (for big armies). I have a very large collection - 8 armies or so, and maybe 13 card cases. I almost never have to do any tray swapping.

In the BF system, using their card storage, you need to take the individual trays out of the canvas bag and put them into a storage box on your shelf. Either that, or you buy a whole BF bag for each army at great expense. As I said, it's such a small difference it doesn't really matter - swapping BF trays takes a matter of minutes. But I'd say the KR one is more modular, because of the lack of tray-swapping

The KR Aluminium cases are a whole other thing - they are much more like BF in that they hold trays and, assuming you still store in cardboard cases, you'd need to swap trays like in the BF system. I don't use their aluminium cases.

I agree your point that you don't want to be carrying around 'empties' when you don't need to. Surely this is a problem with both systems though? If you buy a Pack 432, and then you want to put your small, two tray, 1000pt army in it, you're going to have to pad out the rest with empties, or buy a smaller BF case as well?

I do have the Ali KR case as well. It's prett damn good and doesn't really look like a box of toys which is nice.

Swapping trays in and out really is the work of a few seconds so no biggy.

That's said I don't use it often because the card cases really are robust enough for all my uses, especially now I have the backpack as well.

notprop wrote:I do have the Ali KR case as well. It's prett damn good and doesn't really look like a box of toys which is nice.

Swapping trays in and out really is the work of a few seconds so no biggy.

That's said I don't use it often because the card cases really are robust enough for all my uses, especially now I have the backpack as well.

I don't know if you've tried, but do the Card KR cases fit into the Alluminium cases? (I'm assuming not, but if they do....)

ArbitorIan wrote:The system you describe is only the case with the aluminium cases.

In the KR Kaiser/card case system, the canvas bags (the Kaiser bags) carry the card cases, not the individual trays. So, when I want to play with my CSM army, I pick the card CSM army box off the shelf and drop it in the Kaiser bag, and then leave. No trays are taken out or swapped between cases. No models are taken out and swapped. All my armies are stored in the card cases, which are very cheap. I only have to buy a Kaiser bag once. My Kaiser bag expands to hold one or two card cases (for big armies). I have a very large collection - 8 armies or so, and maybe 13 card cases. I almost never have to do any tray swapping.

Purely semantics. You're still tray swapping. Whether they're individual trays or in a box system, if you are swapping those in and out of the case that you're actually holding them all in to transport somewhere, you're swapping those trays in and out of the case as needed, whether they're bundled in a cardboard box or individual.

While you have a point about needing to pad out a battlefoam case with empty trays, I'd much rather that than take trays full of models Im not using and leave them sitting to the side of a shop while I play. If someone grabs my bag and runs, they get some empty trays. If it was a KR case with some trays of models in there that were brought along because I'd bundled them with trays of models I wanted to use, they'd get my trays and a bunch of my models.

-Loki- wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:The system you describe is only the case with the aluminium cases.

In the KR Kaiser/card case system, the canvas bags (the Kaiser bags) carry the card cases, not the individual trays. So, when I want to play with my CSM army, I pick the card CSM army box off the shelf and drop it in the Kaiser bag, and then leave. No trays are taken out or swapped between cases. No models are taken out and swapped. All my armies are stored in the card cases, which are very cheap. I only have to buy a Kaiser bag once. My Kaiser bag expands to hold one or two card cases (for big armies). I have a very large collection - 8 armies or so, and maybe 13 card cases. I almost never have to do any tray swapping.

Purely semantics. You're still tray swapping. Whether they're individual trays or in a box system, if you are swapping those in and out of the case that you're actually holding them all in to transport somewhere, you're swapping those trays in and out of the case as needed, whether they're bundled in a cardboard box or individual.

It's not semantics. There is definitely a difference between picking a box off a shelf, and having to open up said box and swap trays in and out of it with other boxes. One takes longer than the other.

-Loki- wrote:While you have a point about needing to pad out a battlefoam case with empty trays, I'd much rather that than take trays full of models Im not using and leave them sitting to the side of a shop while I play. If someone grabs my bag and runs, they get some empty trays. If it was a KR case with some trays of models in there that were brought along because I'd bundled them with trays of models I wanted to use, they'd get my trays and a bunch of my models.

I don't know why this isn't the case with both systems? Why do you think a KR case couldn't be padded out with empty foam, in exactly the same way?

If 'empty sections' is a problem, then surely the best solution is multiple, smaller cases? Or expandable cases? I have both of those options, since a standard KR case = half a pack 432. If I have an army of say, 150 models, I just take one case, collapse my bag to fit one, and there's no empty foam. With a pack 432 I'd have to fill the rest of the case with empty foam and take along a bag twice the size I need? Or buy a separate, smaller BF case.

I mean, all this is moot - it really makes no difference to your model-packing experience, but for the sake of accuracy, I'd say that the KR system is more modular.

Its a tough choice. I was set on buying a BF bag at one point then my buddy mentions KR's stuff is cheaper and seems to hold a lot. Just from their websites I can tell you that I like the BF trays because they seem more modular (talking about the pluck foam). But the KR bags and cases look sturdy enough and aren't that hard on the eyes...in fact I kind of like the look of the aluminum case... reminds me of my old tool box when I was in trade school... Now THAT was a sturdy 'bag'.

...in the meantime, I'm a Sabol guy. Its kind of what I started out with and its what I know.

You could do what I did when I didn't have a tray for some models I was working on: Cardboard box + layers of towels. haha

KF, if just for the fact that I have seen correspondence from the Battlefoam team on various message boards, and heard their podcast 40k radio. The owner comes across as an arrogant douche.

Not to mention another employee, co-host of the 40k radio podcast is also a dick. After an unsuccessful court case where Battlefoam tried to sue outrider and were told by the judge to go an 'take some sober reflection'. He posted this message on these forums...

Kinghammer wrote:

outriderhobbies wrote:@Kinghammer

Since you work for Battle Foam, LLC, why don't you tell us if the Warstore got the same C&D.

Oh, and by the way everyone, I got the same letter yesterday as well. And in case you all didn't know, Kinghammer is Kyle Kinghorn. Formerly of Empire Games in Arizona, and current employee of Battle Foam, LLC.

Brian Wade,

Not formerly of Empire games. The same store where you came to sell you crap foam and we told you to beat street. Your the same B. wade who toured BF facility and then went and "started" his own company, then admitted on a podcast it was not his idea and you stole it. The same devout Mormon that use fowl language and lied in a civil court case where I was a witness to. Not very pious. thank god you had your buddy judge rule in your favor than later had the case relocated and thrown out because it was garbage.

If you wanted to air stuff we can do this.

I think the expensive prices are to account for the gakker tax the staff at battlefoam must owe in spades.

cincydooley wrote:

SickSix wrote:Portable Warfare!

Care to elaborate?

I've only looked at them because they offer a pink bag for my wife. But when I realized that no battlefoam trays could fit inside, I passed. I have no real interest in the Pluck Foam.

The KR foam is nice, but it's a bit too soft for my tastes and doesn't have a rigid bottom which I personally prefer. I hate their bags, which is why I never get any, and their trays don't fit any of the battlefoam bags either. If they did, I'd buy more of em.

Battlefoam is way overpriced. PortableWarfare's foam is of great quality. The trays are cheap, and I have figured out that I could build extra trays with the plucked out foam lol.

If you have the money to throw away, sure go with battlefoam. I like to try and get the most I can for my money, and I also like to be different. I love my bag and will probably get another as my army is getting fairly big.

SickSix wrote:Battlefoam is way overpriced. [...]

If you have the money to throw away, sure go with battlefoam. I like to try and get the most I can for my money, and I also like to be different.

You sure about that?

The Portable Warfare Sergeant bag holds 12" of foam, same as the Battle Foam 720 - so at $87.95 it seems like a much better deal than the BF 720 which is 149.99 (both with pluck foam loadout). However - the Portable Warfare trays are only 13"x7.5", while the BF trays are 15.5"x12".

Now, I'm not used to imperial units, so correct me if I'm wrong, but:

PWF Sergeant: 13 * 7.5 * 12 = 1170 cubic inches => 13.30 cubic inches per dollar.
BF 720: 15.5 * 12 * 12 = 2232 cubic inches => 14.88 cubic inches per dollar.
and for fun, the BF 432: 15.5 * 12 * 7.5 = 1395 cubic inches => 13.55 cubic inches per dollar ($102.99).

Also, it's really when you start using the (more space effective) army-specific or custom trays that BF really shines, and the BF bags look a lot sturdier than the PWF one.


Of course, if you have the pink bag it's totally worth it.

+1 (like the eighth person to agree) with ArbitorIan. What he is saying is making complete sense and its true.

I hate to say it at this point I think Loki is just saying whatever he can to make himself not feel bad about buying an inferior product for more money. He bought BF and now is realizing he may have made a wrong choice and this explains why his defensivness of it is slowly becoming offensive at people and is offensive to people.

KR is better. Yes battlefoam is more expensive, but it is worse than KR. Just because BF is made out of more expensive materials does not mean it is better, and in this case, its not better, its worse. If KR costed more than BF I would still purchase KR.

Ryan_A wrote:
KR is better. Yes battlefoam is more expensive, but it is worse than KR.

There are some of us who don't think in completely black and white terms. KR is not better than BF, in the same way BF is not better than KR. I have a KR case and a BF case and my BF case is hands down a better product. That's my experience and 0.02$, just as yours is that KR is a better product. Your opinion is not fact and stating it as such does not make it so.

Blacksails wrote:

Ryan_A wrote:
KR is better. Yes battlefoam is more expensive, but it is worse than KR.

There are some of us who don't think in completely black and white terms. KR is not better than BF, in the same way BF is not better than KR. I have a KR case and a BF case and my BF case is hands down a better product. That's my experience and 0.02$, just as yours is that KR is a better product. Your opinion is not fact and stating it as such does not make it so.

No, it really is a better product. KR does its job much better than battlefoam, it protects the models better and its modularity is supreme. While BF is a more expensive foam and has many positives compared to KR, the positives are not favorable for protecting miniatures.

Lets be utilitarian here, KR has many more important aspects of model protection than BF, though BF is an exellent product, and they both do their job supremely, KR does have a few advantages that bring it over the top compared to BF (I won't list these advantages and comparisons, they've been done several times in this thread), but don't be fooled, THERE IS A BETTER PRODUCT, in EVERY comparison. Lets be honest, one does the job it is designed to do much better. SURE there are scenarios in which BF is better, but WHAT MATTERS, is BY IN LARGE FOR THE MOST PART, which one is better? The answer is KR.

Ryan_A wrote:

Blacksails wrote:

Ryan_A wrote:
KR is better. Yes battlefoam is more expensive, but it is worse than KR.

There are some of us who don't think in completely black and white terms. KR is not better than BF, in the same way BF is not better than KR. I have a KR case and a BF case and my BF case is hands down a better product. That's my experience and 0.02$, just as yours is that KR is a better product. Your opinion is not fact and stating it as such does not make it so.

No, it really is a better product. KR does its job much better than battlefoam, it protects the models better and its modularity is supreme. While BF is a more expensive foam and has many positives compared to KR, the positives are not favorable for protecting miniatures.

Lets be utilitarian here, KR has many more important aspects of model protection than BF, though BF is an exellent product, and they both do their job supremely, KR does have a few advantages that bring it over the top compared to BF (I won't list these advantages and comparisons, they've been done several times in this thread), but don't be fooled, THERE IS A BETTER PRODUCT, in EVERY comparison. Lets be honest, one does the job it is designed to do much better. SURE there are scenarios in which BF is better, but WHAT MATTERS, is BY IN LARGE FOR THE MOST PART, which one is better? The answer is KR.

Well, I'll continue to disagree. I prefer the much sturdier and often custom cut BattleFoam. Their canvas bags are VASTLY superior to the Kaisers or the Portable Warfares or the Sabols, all of which are glorified lunch boxes/coolers. The BattleFoam bags are reinforced. I have no interest in any of the aluminum boxes as A) I've read more than a few accounts of hinges becoming defective and B) they're only accessible by taking all the trays out at once.

I'm tying to figure out in which if these scenarios you refer to is KR so superior to BattleFoam. Battle foam is plenty modular, no less so than KR. Having boxes doesn't make it any more modular. Battlefoams canvas bags are, again, much more durable than any other on the market and, oh yeah, come with a lifetime warranty if they were to rip (which I've never seen or heard of).

As to Romeo being "a douche:" simply put, he isn't. He's a bit loud and a bit in your face, but he genuinely cares about his customers and the gaming market, and is a really nice dude in person. And that's not just while he's trying to sell you something.

All the capital letters really convinced me, thanks!

They're both very good products. Battlefoam is more expensive and Romeo... well, there's more than enough muddled fact and opinion about him out there, and I don't need to repeat it. If you want to see how deep that rabbit hole goes, you can dig around on Google.

Frankly, I go with KR. It's cheaper, still a very good product, there's no negative PR to speak of, they support tournaments and the larger gaming community, and they even sponsor my favorite 40k podcast; The Independent Characters. I've never been disappointed with any purchase I've made from them.

cincydooley wrote:Having boxes doesn't make it any more modular.

But that's exactly what does make it more modular, surely?

Further to my previous post here I've been researching into the new KR Dropzone Commander boxes - when my army expands I can just buy one of those boxes (with customised trays to fit my army), then drop it into my bag whenever I'm playing.

Ryan_A wrote:+1 (like the eighth person to agree) with ArbitorIan. What he is saying is making complete sense and its true.

I hate to say it at this point I think Loki is just saying whatever he can to make himself not feel bad about buying an inferior product for more money.

You think wrong. I simply see no real difference between swapping Packs of foam trays in and out of a case to individual trays. Each have their drawbacks and benefits. Personally, I prefer swapping individual trays, packs makes no sense to me unless your army never changes. And inferior product? Yeah, have fun thinking that. I could easily Turn your overly defensive argument back on you the same way, but it doesn't do the thread much good.

Swapping trays of models is going to happen with any case you buy - if it's a major selling point to you, you need to consider if you want to swap them in groups for KR or individually for other brands.

The boxes are a nice feature - sure you are going to swap trays around within the boxes (and of course you can with KR), but depending on how organised you are it might be nice to have a row of boxes that are labled Ork infantry, Ork vehicules, Space Marines, Space wolves, etc. rather than looking a stack of foam looking for the tray of burnas that you know are in there somewhere. The cardboard boxes also feel like a slightly better storage solution, as you have some protection for the foam without having to buy more transport bags.

I have a KR double backpack myself which seems quite good and flexible, I am by no means a high standard painter, so I probably wouldn't notice if paint got slightly rubbed, and I am in the UK (not sure whether it makes much of a difference, but KR seem cheaper in sterling terms.)

You do however need to workout which solution will fit your army better. Battle foam have a good website where you can see what you will get, and know that it will fit, KR requires a little bit more transalation into their tray numbering system. This is quite intuitive once you get it, and has been helped by thier "what fits" page. My advice on KR is get half trays (more flexibility), and realise that there are two groups of trays the thirds (3s and 5s - the 5s being twice as big so 2/3rd of a case height) and the quarters (2s and 4s - i.e. halves and quarters) and you cant mix them in the same stack.


TLDR - I got KR and am happy with it.

That's another thing that stopped me getting a KR case - they're cryptic tray system. I looked at the case and tray pages for half an hour and couldn't figure it out. Went to battlefoams site and within a few minutes knew the case size I wanted, what initial load out and what laser cut trays I'd want for my Nids and Vampire Counts. Neither of which are an easily transportable army.

I bought a set of KR cases for my various armies, and I'm very satisfied of it. No experience with other cases (except GW cases, which were really taking too much space)

This will be in line with ArbitratorIan comments, but I think the main advantage is that you essentially buy
- a single bag (in my case a size 3 bag)
- various custom cardboard boxes for the models (11 boxes to be precise)

Say I want to play my tyranids, then I just put the 3 tyranid boxes in the bag and I'm ready.
The swap is really fast and easy, and I find it more convenient to swap boxes than trays (especially when loaded with metal models).

The Boxes outside the bag are really easy to store, as they are rectangular.

Adapting the foam trays/boxes to your various models takes time, but I find it worth it.

Many good arguments for both cases here. The only argument that makes me shake my head is this:

"Which company is a better solution?"

"Romeo was an a-hole on the Internet once!"

*facepalm*

The Battlefoam prices start to look much better when I realized that ordering a 'custom loadout' bag can also include at least 5 custom trays. The custom trays being one of the biggest values of Battlefoam and some of their competitors, really.

I'm considering picking up a Pack GO at some point, and realized that it's basically 5 custom trays at list price (and the custom trays are mcuhc ooler than pluck foam,a s wella s a bit more space efficient if designed right) with a bag for $20 or so.

Still a luxury item, though. I would never think less of a gamer that used a GW case, converted toolbox, etc.... Although I might suggest upgrading if their solution is too cumbersome.

d-usa wrote:Many good arguments for both cases here. The only argument that makes me shake my head is this:

"Which company is a better solution?"

"Romeo was an a-hole on the Internet once!"

*facepalm*

It's a valid reason for making the decision who to buy from. Do/will you support the people who run/own the company?

12thRonin wrote:

d-usa wrote:Many good arguments for both cases here. The only argument that makes me shake my head is this:

"Which company is a better solution?"

"Romeo was an a-hole on the Internet once!"

*facepalm*

It's a valid reason for making the decision who to buy from. Do/will you support the people who run/own the company?

If you say so. What it isn't is a valid response to the question. Your personal opinion on the owner of the company has ZERO bearing on the quality of the product.

For example, I happened to think that Steve Jobs was a terrible terrible human being and it colors my attitude, even now, of Apple. That doesn't mean that I don't recognize that their hardware is vastly superior to most of the stuff other vendors offer.

12thRonin wrote:

d-usa wrote:Many good arguments for both cases here. The only argument that makes me shake my head is this:

"Which company is a better solution?"

"Romeo was an a-hole on the Internet once!"

*facepalm*

It's a valid reason for making the decision who to buy from. Do/will you support the people who run/own the company?

And does nothing to answer the question of "what company has the better solution".

"what company would you buy from" is a different question than "what company has the better bag"

Ah sweet, FOAM WARS err III or is it IV or V now, no VI that's it!

These are always fun. The candle that burns so brightly doth burn so quick.

TLDR: IBL

How do KR cases fare when used as carry-on luggage on airlines? I'm looking at the Battlefoam Privateer Press bag and it looks like a perfect option for carry-on luggage. I'm interested how KR would compare in that regard.

haendas wrote:How do KR cases fare when used as carry-on luggage on airlines? I'm looking at the Battlefoam Privateer Press bag and it looks like a perfect option for carry-on luggage. I'm interested how KR would compare in that regard.

I can only give you my experiences with the Battlefoam bags, I hope somebody can give you more insight to the KR cases.

The PACK AIR is advertised as being a carry on compatible bag, and it is build to comply with FAA standards for carry-on. But be advised that airlines often have their own guidelines, and small regional jets are especially likely to have different standards. One of our mods had to check his AIR while flying Delta, but Southwest Airlines will let you carry it on.

I have the PACK GO, which is a little smaller and is build more like a back bag. Had no problem carrying it on the plane with Frontier. My second flight didn't have room for it in the plane so it got gate checked and spend the next two flights in luggage, going through the airport system and got thrown around a lot. Even with that I didn't see any damage on it and the minis held up fine. Biggest downside that I can see between a GO and an AIR is that the GO doesn't have wheels or a handle like a carry-on suitcase would. So it gets heavy if you are carrying it around the airport during a long layover.

Battle Foam all the way for me. Though I do not have hands on experience with KR, I've seen their stuff reviewed on video and I'm not overly impressed.

One of nicest things about the Battle Foam cases are all the pockets and such you can put your books, dice and templates in. No need to have additional bags.

Love my portable warfare solution and next one is KR, battlefoam is way to expensive and the diference in price is just to much... The diference will be used to fund, you know, miniatures.

ruminator wrote:I'm pretty neutral here, but if the cardboard boxes are sat in one of their aluminium cases then what's the problem? From what I've seen of those cases they are practically bulletproof.

Sadly, they're not. I've had one serious structural failure on mine (the plastic corner piece broke, leading to two sides becoming unstuck) and no end of cosmetic problems (unsightly scratches, warped hinges, and the thin black aluminum sheeting coming loose from the hardboard underneath it leading to bulging, rippling and peeling). Since another one of the corners has cracked and likely to shatter entirely sometime in the future, I am likely to have to resort to another round of repairs to keep it functional.

Brother SRM wrote: they support tournaments and the larger gaming community,

So does Battlefoam, to be fair. Not only do they host a convention/tournament(Wild West Shootout) and own a FLGS, they're also out at various other events, provide prize support for the big 'cons, and host 40K Radio.

I'd stick with KR, I like their system alot, I have some Battlefoam trays(bought on black Friday), and while they are nice the KR systems protect my models just as well for 1/2 the cost.

Also the portable warfare, KR, and Sabol systems can all swap foam between their bags pretty easily while BattleFoam has its own scale.

R3con wrote:I
Also the portable warfare, KR, and Sabol systems can all swap foam between their bags pretty easily while BattleFoam has its own scale.

I do think that Battlefoam makes Sabol size trays, so you might even be able to buy the cases from the other companies and use BF trays with them.

But if you buy a BF case, then only BF trays will fit in it.

Found an interesting review article for sabol size trays on Dakka:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Sabol-sized_Foam_Tray_Comparison

d-usa wrote:"Romeo was an a-hole on the Internet once!"

*facepalm*

Once? The guy is a prick.

Glorioski wrote:

d-usa wrote:"Romeo was an a-hole on the Internet once!"

*facepalm*

Once? The guy is a prick.

And are his bags and trays going to fall apart every time he pisses of some random people on the internet?

It has nothing to do with his product, and nothing to do with the question "what bag is better".

d-usa wrote:

Glorioski wrote:

d-usa wrote:"Romeo was an a-hole on the Internet once!"

*facepalm*

Once? The guy is a prick.

And are his bags and trays going to fall apart every time he pisses of some random people on the internet?

It has nothing to do with his product, and nothing to do with the question "what bag is better".

Never saw that specific question in the OPs post. Did however see this:

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:Battlefoam is pretty well known and loved(?)

I'm sorry, I figured they were loved(?) because of quality, not because people love(?) Romeo...

Thread will probably be locked soon for being off topic at this rate.

I took it that the question mark in brackets was because the Op was unsure if they are loved or not. How I am going off topic for responding to a question in the original post is beyond me.

Glorioski wrote:

d-usa wrote:"Romeo was an a-hole on the Internet once!"

*facepalm*

Once? The guy is a prick.

So presumably you've spoken to him in person before and have interacted with him outside of the friendly confines of the internet?

Of course. I couldn't possibly have decided he was a prick without meeting him in person. No like everyone I make judgements about I wait untill I have had a chat, shared a bath and slept with them before I come to a conclusion on what I think of them. Did the same Piers Morgan and Fred West.

Wait, you slept with Romeo?

Sure. You can't decide what you think about someone until you go down on them. Right cincydooley?

Glorioski wrote:Never saw that specific question in the OPs post. Did however see this:

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:Battlefoam is pretty well known and loved(?)

That's got nothing to do with Romea either. Whether people like or hate him, he isn't a Battlefoam bag. He isn't the product.

Call me crazy, but I believe that yes, you actually need to meet someone before certifiably declaring they're a prick.

But maybe I'm just old fashioned.

cincydooley wrote:Call me crazy, but I believe that yes, you actually need to meet someone before certifiably declaring they're a prick.

But maybe I'm just old fashioned.

I'm sure Hitler was a fine and jolly person in person. I'm sure him and I could have enjoyed a fine number of things together and we could have been great friends! However, he was a monster and horrible person and I would not support anything he did.

It matters quite a lot how the owner and people running the company act. Not only does that have something to say about how they treat their costumers, but how they treat others. Do you really want to support a person who is vile and viscious? No, there are about ten million people who agree with me!

Ever heard of, "I don't shop at Wallmart," same principle.

So yes, how the owner acts at his worse is very important in deciding if the person is a good person or not.

Not just responding to you, but to everyone who is trying to underplay how Romeo acts to others in the company and his customers at his worse.

.....And he's currently contacting his lawyer about filing a C&D demand for this thread. lol Lookout DAKKA. Hope a mod lives in Antartica to answer to the courts!

gregor_xenos wrote:.....And he's currently contacting his lawyer about filing a C&D demand for this thread. lol Lookout DAKKA. Hope a mod lives in Antartica to answer to the courts!

lolololol. The funny part is, ITS PROBABLY TRUE!

Unless Romeo personally comes to my house and stomps my models, this has exactly zero bearing on how well his products perform.

You don't like him and think he's a fether, great for you.

But when people ask about how well a product works and protects models all those "I hate Romeo" posts don't do anything to answer that question.

d-usa wrote:Unless Romeo personally comes to my house and stomps my models, this has exactly zero bearing on how well his products perform.

You don't like him and think he's a fether, great for you.

But when people ask about how well a product works and protects models all those "I hate Romeo" posts don't do anything to answer that question.

Obviously you didn't read my post. people brag that, "I don't shop at Wallmart," for a reason. The same reason people don't want to buy from Romeo. And ya, seeing how his attutide works and hearing the numerable complaints about BF customer support (google it). But ya, some people don't buy BF for the same reason people don't shop at Wallmart, or why governments embargo countries that are less-than repputable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I chuckle now because I am currently starring at an add for BF on dakkadakka.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

d-usa wrote: But when people ask about how well a product works and protects models all those "I hate Romeo" posts don't do anything to answer that question.

But when people ask me a question, such as "what does x have to do with y," and than I answer the person's question, and somebody goes and sacrastically writes a reply about how my post deosn't have anything to do with the thread (even though it clearly does as it was answering somebodies question and/or replying to a comment), great for that guy, and what he posts doesn't do anything for this thread.

Ryan_A wrote:

d-usa wrote:Unless Romeo personally comes to my house and stomps my models, this has exactly zero bearing on how well his products perform.

You don't like him and think he's a fether, great for you.

But when people ask about how well a product works and protects models all those "I hate Romeo" posts don't do anything to answer that question.

Obviously you didn't read my post. people brag that, "I don't shop at Wallmart," for a reason. The same reason people don't want to buy from Romeo. And ya, seeing how his attutide works and hearing the numerable complaints about BF customer support (google it). But ya, some people don't buy BF for the same reason people don't shop at Wallmart, or why governments embargo countries that are less-than repputable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I chuckle now because I am currently starring at an add for BF on dakkadakka.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

d-usa wrote:Unless Romeo personally comes to my house and stomps my models, this has exactly zero bearing on how well his products perform.

You don't like him and think he's a fether, great for you.

But when people ask about how well a product works and protects models all those "I hate Romeo" posts don't do anything to answer that question.

But when people ask me a question, such as "what does x have to do with y," and than I answer it and somebody goes and sacrastically writes a reply about how my post deosn't have anything to do with the thread, great for that guy, and what he posts doesn't do anything to answer any of the questions on this thread.

"Does Wal-Mart sell Jeans?"

"I don't shop at Wal-Mart, they are evil"

"Thank you, that really answered my question!"

Yeah, I totally see your point. "Romeo is a fether." really gives an accurate and subjective review of how well his foam protects products, the quality of his bags, how they stand up as checked luggage in an airplane or any other practical question. I am sorry I ever doubted the wisdom of having an opinion about an individual replace any actual practical review of the product they sell.

Sorry I fail to understand how "Romeo is a fether" is an accurate answer to "What is the better bag".

d-usa wrote:

R3con wrote:I
Also the portable warfare, KR, and Sabol systems can all swap foam between their bags pretty easily while BattleFoam has its own scale.

I do think that Battlefoam makes Sabol size trays, so you might even be able to buy the cases from the other companies and use BF trays with them.

But if you buy a BF case, then only BF trays will fit in it.

Found an interesting review article for sabol size trays on Dakka:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Sabol-sized_Foam_Tray_Comparison

Ya I've read that one before its a great breakdown, but I'm cheap and KR and Sabol have done me well to date, I also had a issue with a sabol bag and they had a replacement shipped out within the week, and they let me keep the bag with a ripped stitch. From forum posts this seems a bit different from BF's return policies.

Also if your even thinking of buying BF make sure you wait for the black friday sale!

R3con wrote:

d-usa wrote:

R3con wrote:I
Also the portable warfare, KR, and Sabol systems can all swap foam between their bags pretty easily while BattleFoam has its own scale.

I do think that Battlefoam makes Sabol size trays, so you might even be able to buy the cases from the other companies and use BF trays with them.

But if you buy a BF case, then only BF trays will fit in it.

Found an interesting review article for sabol size trays on Dakka:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Sabol-sized_Foam_Tray_Comparison

Ya I've read that one before its a great breakdown, but I'm cheap and KR and Sabol have done me well to date, I also had a issue with a sabol bag and they had a replacement shipped out within the week, and they let me keep the bag with a ripped stitch. From forum posts this seems a bit different from BF's return policies.

Also if your even thinking of buying BF make sure you wait for the black friday sale!

I got a couple friends who use Sabol cases and they are usually happy with them. One of them has one BF tray for it that he ordered so he could custom cut it for a few models. Black Friday is the way to go with BF, especially if you are starting out from scratch and buying a bag and lots of foam.

d-usa wrote:Bla bla bla

Whatever, I'm done feeding the troll, I was answering somebodies question. And I actually HAVE submitted answers about my review and comparison of both products earlier in this thread, and what I did not say had already been said by Ian.

I won't be responding to anymore of your attempts to get a rise out of me.

The ironic part is you are the one trolling the thread.

-Loki- wrote:The ironic part is you are the one trolling the thread.

I laughed cause its true.

Stoupe wrote:

-Loki- wrote:The ironic part is you are the one trolling the thread.

I laughed cause its true.

Indeed.

Ryan_A wrote:
I'm sure Hitler was a fine and jolly person in person. I'm sure him and I could have enjoyed a fine number of things together and we could have been great friends! However, he was a monster and horrible person and I would not support anything he did.

Well, this tells me all I need to know about you.

If you're looking for the best bag for miniatures on the market, Battlefoam bags are far and away a higher quality product than any of the other ones which are, as I said before, glorified coolers. The Battlefoam Bags are effectively luggage designed to protect your miniatures (which remember, aren't cheap; you can bitch about that on another thread).

They also offer the highest diversity in custom cut product on the market, from my experience have exceptional customer service, have a trade in program if you'd like to trade in old bags (regardless of condition) and have a website that is easy to navigate and which affords you the opportunity to design your own trays online.

They are more expensive than every other brand out there, but in many cases only marginally, particularly when you consider that the Battlefoam bags are higher quality.

If you want a bag like a Kaiser, well guess what? Battlefoam sells one of those, too. It's called the Shield Bag, and with cut foam is $61--or about $20 less than the Portable Warfare Sergeant (it is 1" smaller). I'd compare it to the KR Kaiser, but I can't tell how big the damn bag is on the website. The pre-cut trays are $10.99 or 5 for $44, cheaper in a 5-pack than the Blu-Foam.

So, in the end, BattleFoam DOES offer an "affordable" bag on par with the Portable Warfare, KR Kaiser, and Sabol Coolerbag. If you want to compare something, compare the like model, the Shield, and not the superior in pretty much every single way PACK system.

KR foam is very affordable and very well done. Haven't purchased any custom trays, as my case is a GW big case. Shipping is ridiculously fast even at the free level.

I have no experience with KR multicase but Battlefoam while pricey does make good sturdy bags and nice custom foam.

I have two gripes with Battle Foam. One they use this hard foam which causes metal minis to chip fairly often. I have this problem with my warmachine and hordes minis that they keep chipping even when I seal them with Testor's Dullcote. I have gone back to Sabol foam for my Warmachine/hordes armies.

Two Battlefoam also took a long time several months to get me my stuff but I ordered on the Black Friday sale which probably meant they were swamped with sales but still that was ridiculous.

If you are not using metal minis and don't mind waiting and paying the price Battlefoam is great.

Just a tip - Dullcote doesn't really protect metal models from chipping. It's good on plastic and resin, but for metals you should have a good gloss on it for protection, and use Dullcote to bring the gloss off. It's not really a fault of the semi rigid foam, metal models are just more prone to damage.

cincydooley wrote:BATTLEFOAM IS AMAZING IN EVERY SINGLE POSSIBLE WAY. IT IS SUPERIOR IN EVERY WAY TO EVERYTHING ELSE EVER INVENTED. RAAAAAAA!

See, at least in my post I'm prepared to list the pros and cons of each system. I obviously support KR but I've had experience of both systems, and I concede that there are areas in which BF are superior and areas where KR are superior.

A post like yours (summarised above) is unconvincing because it offers little reason or evidence. Just rampant fanboyism. As I have said, BF materials are indeed superior, but that isn't the same thing as being the 'best system', since having more expensive materials doesn't actually translate into better protection, or modularity, etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

haendas wrote:How do KR cases fare when used as carry-on luggage on airlines? I'm looking at the Battlefoam Privateer Press bag and it looks like a perfect option for carry-on luggage. I'm interested how KR would compare in that regard.

BF have the advantage here - KR don't make any cases which are specifically designed as hand luggage. The standard KR card multicase, (160 marines or 240 guard), and it's carry cases (Kaiser 1 and Backpack 1) are significantly smaller than hand luggage requirements. It's definitely possibly to carry any of them on. A standard card case will easily fit in a hand-luggage sized suitcase.

TWO KR multicases, the Kaiser 2 or a fully loaded Backpack 2 will not fit in hand luggage. If the PACK 432 does, then BF have the advantage here.

Partly, this is probably because KR is a British company, where it's much less common to fly in-country to play games. Unless you're going from one end of the country to the other, it's easier to drive...

Personally, I have always flown with a single KR multicase stowed in my big suitcase in the hold. I've never had any damage to any of my models, despite how often my big suitcase must have been thrown around...!

Yes cincydooley's post comes across as if he has no experience of anything other than Battlefoam. Certainly not enough to brand the other products as "glorified coolers".

What I can't understand is how hard foam would be in any way a better idea than soft foam other than the fact you can hold the trays easier. The idea of putting your miniature in foam is they are flexible to give your minis a cushion and any knock the bag gets is also dampened. Hard foam will just carry any vibration the bag receives to your model.

Glorioski wrote:Yes cincydooley's post comes across as if he has no experience of anything other than Battlefoam. Certainly not enough to brand the other products as "glorified coolers".

What I can't understand is how hard foam would be in any way a better idea than soft foam other than the fact you can hold the trays easier. The idea of putting your miniature in foam is they are flexible to give your minis a cushion and any knock the bag gets is also dampened. Hard foam will just carry any vibration the bag receives to your model.

I don't think it's hard enough to carry the vibration. The fact that it's semi-rigid give the whole case more rigidity, which is an advantage in a canvas case. It's probably a bit more durable, and might be easier to cut weird shapes into? I don't know.

I agree, I prefer soft foam that presses on the model, holding it very tightly in place, and then a rigid case for, you know, rigidity....

Would you like me to bullet it out for you?

BattleFoam Pros
---PACK system bags are luggage quality and durable.
---BattleFoam Foam is denser than both KR foam and Sabol foam
---BattleFoam comes in hundreds of custom cut trays for multiple game systems
---BattleFoam offers a custom tray creator online so you can tailor any foam to your specific models.
----BattleFoam offers a budget bag, the Shield

BattleFoam cons
---more expensive than other bags
---no tray sized boxes to slide into bags?
---People that have never met Romeo, the owner of BattleFoam, compare him to hitler.

KR Pros
---Offers custom cut foam for a limited number of models ranges.
---foam comes in boxes allow for modularity.
---foam is an attractive blue color

KR Cons
---bags are not rigid and require interior boxes
---website does not make sizes apparent
---custom foam just as expensive as BattleFoam and is sometimes actually more expensive than BattleFoam

And yes. You read the last one correctly. To stow 3 chimeras and 3 russes in BattleFoam The tray is $24.99. To stow the same load out in KR you need 3 IG1+IG1 trays at $13 a piece, or $39 total.

You keep talking about modularity. Do I need to make a video about how easy it is to swap my foam in and out of a bag?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Glorioski wrote:Yes cincydooley's post comes across as if he has no experience of anything other than Battlefoam. Certainly not enough to brand the other products as "glorified coolers".

What I can't understand is how hard foam would be in any way a better idea than soft foam other than the fact you can hold the trays easier. The idea of putting your miniature in foam is they are flexible to give your minis a cushion and any knock the bag gets is also dampened. Hard foam will just carry any vibration the bag receives to your model.

Ive owned Sabol bags before. Had two Motor Pools. I checked KR out at GenCon last year. I wasn't impressed. By their bags, and their foam is softer than BattleFoam by a considerable amount. The Sabols are glorified coolers. They give away similar soft coolers as free gifts at baseball games in the states. I do not have experience with Portable Warfare, but again, they're soft bags that look like coolers, right down to the heat reflecting silver interior.

I also own 3 or 4 GW hard cases which now have GW sized BattleFoam in them.

Yes glorioskis post comes across as if he has no experience of anything other than KR. Certainky not enough to brand the other products as "less modular".

cincydooley wrote:Yes glorioskis post comes across as if he has no experience of anything other than KR. Certainky not enough to brand the other products as "less modular".

You're right, I don't. However unlike you I'm not making statements about products I know nothing about. Neither did I say anything about any product being "less modular", even if you do put it in quotation marks.

Glorioski wrote:

cincydooley wrote:Yes glorioskis post comes across as if he has no experience of anything other than KR. Certainky not enough to brand the other products as "less modular".

You're right, I don't. However unlike you I'm not making statements about products I know nothing about. Neither did I say anything about any product being "less modular", even if you put it in quotation marks.

Whereas I have experience with 4 different companies. Seems I may know what I'm talking about a bit more than you.

cincydooley wrote:

Glorioski wrote:

cincydooley wrote:Yes glorioskis post comes across as if he has no experience of anything other than KR. Certainky not enough to brand the other products as "less modular".

You're right, I don't. However unlike you I'm not making statements about products I know nothing about. Neither did I say anything about any product being "less modular", even if you put it in quotation marks.

Whereas I have experience with 4 different companies. Seems I may know what I'm talking about a bit more than you.

I'm not saying you don't. But then there's ArbitorIan who seems to know more than you and is presenting the pros and cons of each bag in a fair an unbiased manor. You are just coming across as a BattleFoam fanboy.

Glorioski wrote:

cincydooley wrote:

Glorioski wrote:

cincydooley wrote:Yes glorioskis post comes across as if he has no experience of anything other than KR. Certainky not enough to brand the other products as "less modular".

You're right, I don't. However unlike you I'm not making statements about products I know nothing about. Neither did I say anything about any product being "less modular", even if you put it in quotation marks.

Whereas I have experience with 4 different companies. Seems I may know what I'm talking about a bit more than you.

I'm not saying you don't. But then there's ArbitorIan who seems to know more than you and is presenting the pros and cons of each bag in a fair an unbiased manor. You are just coming across as a BattleFoam fanboy.

Really? Because it sounds to me like he hasn't actually used or owned anything but KR. And I just made bullet points of all the pros and cons for you. The only pro I can genuinely see for KR over BattleFoam is the price being cheaper, but the foam isn't even cheaper in many instances! Further, the kaiser bags aren't rigid, and you really can't reasonably compare them to the PACK bags which, as I've intimated multiple times, are more like luggage. To compare a BF bag to a KR bag you have to use a Shield, and thats cheaper!!!

cincydooley wrote:Further, the kaiser bags aren't rigid, and you really can't reasonably compare them to the PACK bags which, as I've intimated multiple times, are more like luggage. To compare a BF bag to a KR bag you have to use a Shield, and thats cheaper!!!

See your ranting on about things you have no idea about again. Kaiser bags are rigid, all of them. And if you want us to compare it with BF's shield bag please take note of the statement on their website:

this bag is not made with a hard plastic inner shell and will collapse when not filled with foam.

Can't imagine it's very rigid when the rigidity is provided by the foam itself.

Glorioski wrote:

cincydooley wrote:Further, the kaiser bags aren't rigid, and you really can't reasonably compare them to the PACK bags which, as I've intimated multiple times, are more like luggage. To compare a BF bag to a KR bag you have to use a Shield, and thats cheaper!!!

See your ranting on about things you have no idea about again. Kaiser bags are rigid, all of them. And if you want us to compare it with BF's shield bag please take note of the statement on their website:

this bag is not made with a hard plastic inner shell and will collapse when not filled with foam.

Can't imagine it's very rigid when the rigidity is provided by the foam itself.

I'm sorry, I should have been more specific. The Kaisers are not lined with rigid plastic.

They all make use of the card cases. The shield bag doesn't have rigid plastic.

Also it isn't cheaper either. The Kaiser case price includes international shipping. The BF Shield bag is 14 extra dollars for basic shipping in the US and 44 dollars to ship across the Atlantic.

That's my point, brah. I'm wholly aware that the Shield bag doesn't have the rigid plastic. That's why I said it was a better comparison to the Kaiser or the Portable Warfare or the Sabol bags.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Glorioski wrote:They all make use of the card cases. The shield bag doesn't have rigid plastic.

Also it isn't cheaper either. The Kaiser case price includes international shipping. The BF Shield bag is 14 extra dollars for basic shipping in the US and 44 dollars to ship across the Atlantic.

No. The foam is still cheaper. I can walk up to the BattleFoam booth at any number of conventions and buy it. Or I can have one of my LGS's order it for me and pick it up there. Citing shipping as your balance factor for price is simply grasping at straws.

How does a bag not being rigid make it a better comparison for a rigid bag?

Again, the Kaisers are not lined with plastic. They are, at best, semi rigid. They are not akin to the PACK system. This is my point.

Further, the Sabol is not line with plastic either. Hence the more appropriate comparison.

Do you really think a plastic lining sewn into a bag is going to be that much more rigid than the card cases in the Kaiser?

Failed comparison.

The Kaiser is rigid enough for most applications. if you want something more rigid then you will need the aluminium cases, plastic lining is hardly going to give you the extra rigidity you need, if anything.

Glorioski wrote:Do you really think a plastic lining sewn into a bag is going to be that much more rigid than the card cases in the Kaiser?

Failed comparison.

The Kaiser is rigid enough for most applications. if you want something more rigid then you will need the aluminium cases, plastic lining is hardly going to give you the extra rigidity you need, if anything.

So you've used em, right? And the kaiser relies on the card cases, right'? Not just the foam?

How does the kaiser do if I simply put some Sabol foam in there? Well?

The point remains that the Kaiser bag NEEDS the card cases to function correctly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Glorioski wrote:Do you really think a plastic lining sewn into a bag is going to be that much more rigid than the card cases in the Kaiser?

Failed comparison.

The Kaiser is rigid enough for most applications. if you want something more rigid then you will need the aluminium cases, plastic lining is hardly going to give you the extra rigidity you need, if anything.

Like air travel?

Are you talking about the aluminum cases that multiple people have reported having serious issues with the hinges on? The same ones that are more expensive than the BF Pack system bags of the same size?

Glorioski wrote:Do you really think a plastic lining sewn into a bag is going to be that much more rigid than the card cases in the Kaiser

Are you seriously implying that cardboard is as tough or rigid as hard plastic?

Okay. Lemme ask this : in the bf videos i found, they've loaded a bag with models then hucked it around.
:
I havent seen that elsewhere, mayhap my youtube fu is weak.

And in useless anedote: all sabol and kr 3+ year users bags are falling apart + replaced with bf bags. Maybe its a meta thing.

-Loki- wrote:

Glorioski wrote:Do you really think a plastic lining sewn into a bag is going to be that much more rigid than the card cases in the Kaiser

Are you seriously implying that cardboard is as tough or rigid as hard plastic?

Yeh, in this context. Sheets of plastic lining vs a 2ply card box structure, it makes little to no difference. Neither are going to like you sitting on it, both will suffer a few knocks.

gunslingerpro wrote:Okay. Lemme ask this : in the bf videos i found, they've loaded a bag with models then hucked it around.
:
I havent seen that elsewhere, mayhap my youtube fu is weak.

Must be:

http://www.krmulticase.com/about/casetesting.aspx

yeah,

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:...160 Night Goblins... Their standard trays which cost $15 can only hold about 60 Night Goblins...
_Tim?

They also sell a 90 model tray that would probabily be ideal for goblins. they hold my grots perfectly.



Regarding the KR battlefoam arguement.
KR have a cheaper system that is perfectly modular and the card cases stack great on shelves.
The cardboard cases protect perfectly fine against regular day to day model transporting concerns.
No one is doing an assault course carrying their minis so the Aluminium or GW hardcase is overkill!
I dislike the KR back pack, it looks like a cheap plastic school bag, but it is a lot cheaper and functionally perfect for the job.

I bought into the Battlefoam system.

I like the aesthetics of the bag... It looks the business, a military green mean bag
The BF foam is harder than the KR foam, it gives the BF bags extra rigidity and security for the minis. But it does flex to allow tight fitting too!


I think the tray creator on the battlefoam site is the dogs bollocks



I did a review of the PACK 432 -> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/450718.page

My only issue now is when my foam is not in use I stack all my trays ontop of each other on shelves.the KR system looks a lot tidier with cardboard boxes stacked.
BF recently started to copy KR and sell cardboard boxes for their foam, which are again overpriced, and unavailable to their UK customers.
but when they do sell here I'll measure up and if the boxes fit the shelves I'll get some and it'll look a lot more tidy.


Panic...

d-usa wrote:

haendas wrote:How do KR cases fare when used as carry-on luggage on airlines? I'm looking at the Battlefoam Privateer Press bag and it looks like a perfect option for carry-on luggage. I'm interested how KR would compare in that regard.

I can only give you my experiences with the Battlefoam bags, I hope somebody can give you more insight to the KR cases.

The PACK AIR is advertised as being a carry on compatible bag, and it is build to comply with FAA standards for carry-on. But be advised that airlines often have their own guidelines, and small regional jets are especially likely to have different standards. One of our mods had to check his AIR while flying Delta, but Southwest Airlines will let you carry it on.

I have the PACK GO, which is a little smaller and is build more like a back bag. Had no problem carrying it on the plane with Frontier. My second flight didn't have room for it in the plane so it got gate checked and spend the next two flights in luggage, going through the airport system and got thrown around a lot. Even with that I didn't see any damage on it and the minis held up fine. Biggest downside that I can see between a GO and an AIR is that the GO doesn't have wheels or a handle like a carry-on suitcase would. So it gets heavy if you are carrying it around the airport during a long layover.

ArbitorIan wrote:
BF have the advantage here - KR don't make any cases which are specifically designed as hand luggage. The standard KR card multicase, (160 marines or 240 guard), and it's carry cases (Kaiser 1 and Backpack 1) are significantly smaller than hand luggage requirements. It's definitely possibly to carry any of them on. A standard card case will easily fit in a hand-luggage sized suitcase.

TWO KR multicases, the Kaiser 2 or a fully loaded Backpack 2 will not fit in hand luggage. If the PACK 432 does, then BF have the advantage here.

Partly, this is probably because KR is a British company, where it's much less common to fly in-country to play games. Unless you're going from one end of the country to the other, it's easier to drive...

Personally, I have always flown with a single KR multicase stowed in my big suitcase in the hold. I've never had any damage to any of my models, despite how often my big suitcase must have been thrown around...!

Thanks very much to you both for the input on using these cases as luggage. Amidst it all, there is useful information and helpful people in this thread! It looks like I'm going battle foam. Now to decide between the pack air, pack go, and the privateer press bags. Thanks again.