Nemesis Daemon Hammer on a Nemisis Dreadknight.

Total point sink.

It literally does nothing for the model.

Webway Portal.

... Too soon?

DeathReaper wrote:Nemesis Daemon Hammer on a Nemisis Dreadknight.

Total point sink.

It literally does nothing for the model.

Reducing enemy MC to initiative 1 isn't exactly "useless".
A lot of these things aren't.
Some guy was complaining about re-rolling to wound being useless on TMC

No. You are all wrong. The worst piece of Wargear in the game is Digital Weapons, specificially Digital Weapons when taken on a Brotherhood Champion: For 5 points, you are allowed to re-roll a single wound in Close Combat, yet your Anointed Blade, your default weapon, already allows you to re-roll all wounds in Close Combat. I have discussed this with people at the local GW, and even the staff couldn't conceive why this was included in the Champion's entry.

Testify wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:Nemesis Daemon Hammer on a Nemisis Dreadknight.

Total point sink.

It literally does nothing for the model.

Reducing enemy MC to initiative 1 isn't exactly "useless".
A lot of these things aren't.
Some guy was complaining about re-rolling to wound being useless on TMC

Damn the selective reading around here... I said it "used" to be in regards to poison and it was in 5th because you had the choice of wounding on 2s in most cases with an MC or wounding on 4s with rerolls because of the wording of the rule. That is why I mentioned the Avatar because in 5th most of the time it was the only thing you ran up against where the 4 plus rerollable made sense for an MC because you were not wounding on 2s. In 6th poison is much better for MCs.

Exergy wrote:Envenomed blades. Vehicle upgrade for DE
Any enemy takes a str 4 ap - hit if they roll a 1 to hit against the vehicle.
10 points

That upgrade is 5 Points, I think.
Still a mediocre upgrade, though.

Vepr wrote:

Testify wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:Nemesis Daemon Hammer on a Nemisis Dreadknight.

Total point sink.

It literally does nothing for the model.

Reducing enemy MC to initiative 1 isn't exactly "useless".
A lot of these things aren't.
Some guy was complaining about re-rolling to wound being useless on TMC

Damn the selective reading around here... I said it "used" to be in regards to poison and it was in 5th because you had the choice of wounding on 2s in most cases with an MC or wounding on 4s with rerolls because of the wording of the rule. That is why I mentioned the Avatar because in 5th most of the time it was the only thing you ran up against where the 4 plus rerollable made sense for an MC because you were not wounding on 2s. In 6th poison is much better for MCs.

The rules for poison were the same in 5th ed. But I get your point, so I now declare this topic dead! No more posts about poison.

Hunchkrot wrote:

Vepr wrote:

Testify wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:Nemesis Daemon Hammer on a Nemisis Dreadknight.

Total point sink.

It literally does nothing for the model.

Reducing enemy MC to initiative 1 isn't exactly "useless".
A lot of these things aren't.
Some guy was complaining about re-rolling to wound being useless on TMC

Damn the selective reading around here... I said it "used" to be in regards to poison and it was in 5th because you had the choice of wounding on 2s in most cases with an MC or wounding on 4s with rerolls because of the wording of the rule. That is why I mentioned the Avatar because in 5th most of the time it was the only thing you ran up against where the 4 plus rerollable made sense for an MC because you were not wounding on 2s. In 6th poison is much better for MCs.

The rules for poison were the same in 5th ed. But I get your point, so I now declare this topic dead! No more posts about poison.

I hate to bring back the dead on the topic of poison but I thought in 6th it took into account strength vs toughness so you would get the 2 plus to wound and a reroll if you had poison now unlike 5th with the straight 4 plus.

Vepr wrote:

Hunchkrot wrote:

Vepr wrote:

Testify wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:Nemesis Daemon Hammer on a Nemisis Dreadknight.

Total point sink.

It literally does nothing for the model.

Reducing enemy MC to initiative 1 isn't exactly "useless".
A lot of these things aren't.
Some guy was complaining about re-rolling to wound being useless on TMC

Damn the selective reading around here... I said it "used" to be in regards to poison and it was in 5th because you had the choice of wounding on 2s in most cases with an MC or wounding on 4s with rerolls because of the wording of the rule. That is why I mentioned the Avatar because in 5th most of the time it was the only thing you ran up against where the 4 plus rerollable made sense for an MC because you were not wounding on 2s. In 6th poison is much better for MCs.

The rules for poison were the same in 5th ed. But I get your point, so I now declare this topic dead! No more posts about poison.

I hate to bring back the dead on the topic of poison but I thought in 6th it took into account strength vs toughness so you would get the 2 plus to wound and a reroll if you had poison now unlike 5th with the straight 4 plus.

I thought that but I looked it up and it did in fact flat out ignore Strength and Toughness when rolling to wound, though the re-roll was there so it'd still wound T4 and below 75% of the time, compared to 83% of the time for Strength vs Toughness. So still not exactly a waste unless you NEVER saw anything T5 or above.

Testify wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:Nemesis Daemon Hammer on a Nemisis Dreadknight.

Total point sink.

It literally does nothing for the model.

Reducing enemy MC to initiative 1 isn't exactly "useless".
A lot of these things aren't.
Some guy was complaining about re-rolling to wound being useless on TMC

Considering the Doomfists give you the same Str, the Daemonhammer is not worth its points.

I'm gonna go with another vote for Digital Weapons on the GK Brotherhood Champion. It's a piece of wargear in one of the "designed with 6th in mind" codices, and yet for some reason, they saw fit to make an option that does absolutely nothing in 5th or 6th edition.

At least Target Lock and those types of gear are non-functional because they referenced rules that no longer exist and/or have been FAQ'd to not do anything. Digiweapons on a Brotherhood Champion haven't done anything since the book's creation and won't do anything in 6th edition either. It's really quite silly.

DeathReaper wrote:

Testify wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:Nemesis Daemon Hammer on a Nemisis Dreadknight.

Total point sink.

It literally does nothing for the model.

Reducing enemy MC to initiative 1 isn't exactly "useless".
A lot of these things aren't.
Some guy was complaining about re-rolling to wound being useless on TMC

Considering the Doomfists give you the same Str, the Daemonhammer is not worth its points.

You didn't say that...you said "It literally does nothing for the model.". That's factually incorrect.

If you knew you were up against Deamons or Tyranids it'd probably be worth it.

Tau Target lock

It's a special power, but it's an upgrade none the less.

I'm going to throw my vote in for the Intercept Exarch power for Swooping Hawks. I use Swooping Hawks, so this is not for any hate for the unit, no matter how bad they are (I think they've improved in 6th ed, but hey).

What intercept does is it allows you to allows you to always hit vehicles without a WS on the roll of a 4+ at worst, but now that you always hit said vehicles on a 3+ at worst, you are paying points for something that is completely unusable. Admittedly it's only 5pts, but you're still paying to do nothing.

Testify wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:

Testify wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:Nemesis Daemon Hammer on a Nemisis Dreadknight.

Total point sink.

It literally does nothing for the model.

Reducing enemy MC to initiative 1 isn't exactly "useless".
A lot of these things aren't.
Some guy was complaining about re-rolling to wound being useless on TMC

Considering the Doomfists give you the same Str, the Daemonhammer is not worth its points.

You didn't say that...you said "It literally does nothing for the model.". That's factually incorrect.

If you knew you were up against Deamons or Tyranids it'd probably be worth it.

Not even worth it for Daemons or Nids.

Things die in the first round to a charging dreadknight, so reducing the Initiative is useless.

Well most 4th ed books and earlier have simply useless options, just how it works. They are all in a first place tie.

davou wrote:Tau Target lock

After reading and rereading the FAQ, I believe the entry removing FAQ on the Target lock was screwup that made it past proof and now screws Tau. I suspect who ever did that entry just saw the end of the Target lock section about Target priority copy pasted the C&C entry. Shadow sun still has the advanced target lock and vehicles still get Target lock and Sniper drones still have target lock on there unit entry. If it was a mistake I don't see it ever getting corrected.


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DOOMBREAD wrote:

Exergy wrote:Envenomed blades. Vehicle upgrade for DE
Any enemy takes a str 4 ap - hit if they roll a 1 to hit against the vehicle.
10 points

That upgrade is 5 Points, I think.
Still a mediocre upgrade, though.

This has improved in 6th, with CC now being such a good way for horde/swarm units to take out vehicles.

Condemnor Boltgun for the SoB. A single shot, S5 AP- weapon that causes a Perils of the Warp on an unsaved wound. If the opposing player actually has a psyker in his army, you'd need a 6 to hit to allocate the wound to the psyker (since it's unlikely that he's not part of a unit), then you'd need to wound him, and then he would need to fail his armor save to trigger the PotW effect. All this for 15 points? I'll take a dozen!

Transdimensional beamer.

Its a short ranged heavy weapon...on a assault unit.

Jayden63 wrote:Ork combi rokkit. Its a weapon that hits once every three games.

^^have to agree

For orks..
'ard case. I get to pay 15 points to remove my ability to assault out of my wagon and shoot all my guns?! Yeah....

'ard boyz. The drawing point of boyz is that they are cheap. I don't look at boyz and think, "Hmm, these things really need an easily ignorable 4+ save, and i'm willing to pay 4 points to get it!

'eavy armour on pretty much anything, for most of the reasons above.

Stikkbomm chucka's and wreckin' balls. Stikkbomms are dumb, and wreckin' balls, while ballsy and cool, are just not worth having pretty much ever. Oh, and the grabbin' klaw. I used one once to grab an eldar skimmer. But otherwise, it should be avioded.

IG Infantry Heavy Flamer. Because why not waste 15 points instead of spending 5 points on a normal flamer.

EnormousName wrote:Dark eldar orb of despair or dark gate.

Dark gate is a S10 large blast with a 12" range...

Orb of despair is a S10 AP1 blast that wounds against ld... 6" range.

Just imagine how easily those scatter on your own guys.

OK now imagine it was a large blast with a 6" range. Now you know how IG feel with Demo charges. Either way a S10 blast is nothing to sneeze at, even with such a low range.


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Mohoc wrote:IG Infantry Heavy Flamer. Because why not waste 15 points instead of spending 5 points on a normal flamer.

20 points! Even worse haha`

hotsauceman1 wrote:Heavy bolter, Its only str 5 and ap 4. Not enough to take out even marines.

even marines!

when you start your comparison with god like super humans fully encased in inches of armor you are going to be disapointed.


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the_Armyman wrote:Condemnor Boltgun for the SoB. A single shot, S5 AP- weapon that causes a Perils of the Warp on an unsaved wound. If the opposing player actually has a psyker in his army, you'd need a 6 to hit to allocate the wound to the psyker (since it's unlikely that he's not part of a unit), then you'd need to wound him, and then he would need to fail his armor save to trigger the PotW effect. All this for 15 points? I'll take a dozen!

or you use it against Grey Knights, Psyker Battle Squads and Eldar Seer Councils. Rack up those wounds!

Also, the bolt pistol for anything in the imperial guard. Pay 2 points to screw up list making and make rolling for shooting super annoying and tedious.

Exergy wrote:

the_Armyman wrote:Condemnor Boltgun for the SoB. A single shot, S5 AP- weapon that causes a Perils of the Warp on an unsaved wound. If the opposing player actually has a psyker in
his army, you'd need a 6 to hit to allocate the wound to the psyker (since it's unlikely that he's not part of a unit), then you'd need to wound him, and then he would need to fail his armor save to trigger the PotW effect. All this for 15 points? I'll take a dozen!

or you use it against Grey Knights, Psyker Battle Squads and Eldar Seer Councils. Rack up those wounds!

You forgot that it only works against multi-wound psykers. All others will be dead by the unsaved wound, so they won't actually care about the perils.

Edit: fixed my quotes

Back in 5th ed, it was that tau pulse pistol. I don't have a codex, so I'll have to have a tau player flesh this out, but I was under the impression that it only worked if you took a certain HQ that nobody took, or it only worked if the guy survived escaping from his suit, or something. It was a weapon that was almost never, ever actually used, and when it was, it was still a worthless pistol that wasn't likely to kill anything.

I don't know if 6th ed has made a new worse one.

Ailaros wrote:Back in 5th ed, it was that tau pulse pistol. I don't have a codex, so I'll have to have a tau player flesh this out, but I was under the impression that it only worked if you took a certain HQ that nobody took, or it only worked if the guy survived escaping from his suit, or something. It was a weapon that was almost never, ever actually used, and when it was, it was still a worthless pistol that wasn't likely to kill anything.

I don't know if 6th ed has made a new worse one.

I own the codex, but i don't much look at it. I'll check it for you.

EDIT: it is only available on the spotter for sniper drones, (they don't seem to be used much) and for suits equipted with an ejection system. It's a 15 point upgrade that can only be taken once in the entire army, and only on an independent character without a unit. When you lose your last wound from a non-instant death shooting attack, you lose the toughness and strength of the suit, lose your armor save, and have nothing but a pulse pistol, which is just a pistol version of the pulse rifle. So for it to be used, you'd have to have a commander rolling solo, all by himself, and pay 15 points so that when he dies, which will happen quickly, him being alone and all, you don't lose him entirely. You get a firewarrior without armor and without a decent gun. So you pay more than a firewarrior to, apon death, turn your lone commander into.... worse than a firewarrior.

AegisGrimm wrote:Well, how about the auspex, as it doesn't exist anymore other than as a bit to add character?

When I had an extra few points I would buy it (and for my older books that have wargear I still do) It was great when I played Nids, and now with a person I know who likes to play a large scout marine army, it's good to get an extra shot off at the start. I mean I take anything else if I can, but when the option is there, I dont shrug and say "never mind"

Nemesis Force Halberd is a pretty terrible piece of wargear, same for psychotroke and rad grenades.

Eidolon wrote:Nemesis Force Halberd is a pretty terrible piece of wargear, same for psychotroke and rad grenades.

The worst piece of wargear for you to take, not your opponant to face.

hotsauceman1 wrote:Heavy bolter, Its only str 5 and ap 4. Not enough to take out even marines.

I have yet to see any IG. Ork or Marine player run at a sqaud wit h4 Heavy Bolters. Even on Heavy Bolter is enough to take it easy around. 3 shots, wound easy enough, and well, even a Lasegun can take down a Termie if you make him roll enough saves, so HEavy Bolter with it's rang will make back it's points.

Jayden63 wrote:Ork combi rokkit. Its a weapon that hits once every three games.

ha, fully agreed!! But so worth the 5 points when it hits!

I like the digital lasers or grenade launchers you can get for the chapter master's command squad. Never seen them used, waste of the paper they're written on.

loota boy wrote:

Ailaros wrote:Back in 5th ed, it was that tau pulse pistol. I don't have a codex, so I'll have to have a tau player flesh this out, but I was under the impression that it only worked if you took a certain HQ that nobody took, or it only worked if the guy survived escaping from his suit, or something. It was a weapon that was almost never, ever actually used, and when it was, it was still a worthless pistol that wasn't likely to kill anything.

I don't know if 6th ed has made a new worse one.

I own the codex, but i don't much look at it. I'll check it for you.

EDIT: it is only available on the spotter for sniper drones, (they don't seem to be used much) and for suits equipted with an ejection system. It's a 15 point upgrade that can only be taken once in the entire army, and only on an independent character without a unit. When you lose your last wound from a non-instant death shooting attack, you lose the toughness and strength of the suit, lose your armor save, and have nothing but a pulse pistol, which is just a pistol version of the pulse rifle. So for it to be used, you'd have to have a commander rolling solo, all by himself, and pay 15 points so that when he dies, which will happen quickly, him being alone and all, you don't lose him entirely. You get a firewarrior without armor and without a decent gun. So you pay more than a firewarrior to, apon death, turn your lone commander into.... worse than a firewarrior.

Hey you may talk down about it but i still remember one game with my friend i ahd 1 termi left contesting an objective and he had fired everything he had at it without making a wound. This was turn 6 and if he didn't killl it the game would have been a draw. Just as he was about to concede to a draw he remembered his sniper drone controller had that pistol and lo and behold the scrawnty little guy manage to kill the termie!

loota boy wrote:It's a 15 point upgrade that can only be taken once in the entire army, and only on an independent character without a unit. When you lose your last wound from a non-instant death shooting attack, you lose the toughness and strength of the suit, lose your armor save, and have nothing but a pulse pistol, which is just a pistol version of the pulse rifle. So for it to be used, you'd have to have a commander rolling solo, all by himself, and pay 15 points so that when he dies, which will happen quickly, him being alone and all, you don't lose him entirely. You get a firewarrior without armor and without a decent gun. So you pay more than a firewarrior to, apon death, turn your lone commander into.... worse than a firewarrior.

Yeah, that's the one. The wargear that you have to make your HQ much worse to have access to, and then have to pay more points.

... just for it to have a small chance of doing practically nothing.

I haven't seen anything here yet that's worse than that.

loota boy wrote:For orks..
'ard case. I get to pay 15 points to remove my ability to assault out of my wagon and shoot all my guns?! Yeah....

'ard boyz. The drawing point of boyz is that they are cheap. I don't look at boyz and think, "Hmm, these things really need an easily ignorable 4+ save, and i'm willing to pay 4 points to get it!

'eavy armour on pretty much anything, for most of the reasons above.

Stikkbomm chucka's and wreckin' balls. Stikkbomms are dumb, and wreckin' balls, while ballsy and cool, are just not worth having pretty much ever. Oh, and the grabbin' klaw. I used one once to grab an eldar skimmer. But otherwise, it should be avioded.

disagree on the grabba claw.. if you grab a flier which raw you can ... roll up to a flier withing 2 inches... on a 4+ it cna't move next turn, a flier that can't move is destroyed

Stikkbombz are frag grenades. I've never seen anyone complain about being able to give a whole squad assault grenades before (even if it is only for a turn..)

Wrecking balls are a bit hit-and-miss, but they've done me good service over the years (wrecked a Lith with one IIRC, from a throwaway trukk left over from a boyz squad). They aren't reliable, but they are damn orky

Grabbing Klaws are, for me, a must Remember that if you are grabbing a skimmer they can't move (if it works). No move = no jink save. It also equals being autohit in cc.

Grab with BW, then run a deffrolla over it on your next turn, as it won't have moved

Exergy wrote:

hotsauceman1 wrote:Heavy bolter, Its only str 5 and ap 4. Not enough to take out even marines.

even marines!

when you start your comparison with god like super humans fully encased in inches of armor you are going to be disapointed.

Ok, let me rephrase that, for me its useless. All i play against is marines.

Exergy wrote:

hotsauceman1 wrote:Heavy bolter, Its only str 5 and ap 4. Not enough to take out even marines.

even marines!

when you start your comparison with god like super humans fully encased in inches of armor you are going to be disapointed.

Yeah, because Marines are so hard to kill in this game. T4 3+ Save isn't actually that durable, I've noticed.

Harder than anyone else, for stock troops

Not everyone has bags of AP3 lying around that aren't also anti-tank weapons, being used to kill the SM vehicles

Sure, they're killable, but most anti-infantry weapons won't do the job too well. You either need mass fire, or light anti-tank weapons or better/dedicated anti-heavy-infantry weapons to kill them effectively.

Heavy bolters aren't bad as weapons go, but their intended niche is mowing down lightly to mid armoured infantry and paper thin vehicles.

The most useless piece of wargear for sixth ed has to be extra armour for vehicals.

BlackRaven1987!! wrote:The most useless piece of wargear for sixth ed has to be extra armour for vehicals.

Pretty much that, I my 4 years of playing 40k. I have yet to have seen somebody take it.

I used to take the equivilent for my ork BW's, as they relied on movement, but not so much on shooting in 5th.

No reason really to take them for 6th

Command and control node.

Ascalam wrote:I used to take the equivilent for my ork BW's, as they relied on movement, but not so much on shooting in 5th.

No reason really to take them for 6th

Yeah, i'm thinking that with the points you've brought up on grabbin' klaws, i may sub out the points for one of those. Also, would you say that the mandatory big shoota to stop weapon destroyed results from being immobilized is no longer mandatory?

I wouls till take one, but YMMV.

Deathrolla wagons need to stay mobile, so i'd leave it on for those. That said they'll likely die to glances more than outright pen kills these days. I've only lost one to a pen (firedragons) but several to glancedeaths.

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but the worst wargear (I believe) has to go to the honor blade in the tau codex. Not because of what it does, it is okay, but because of who could get it. Essentially, you paid 10 points to give your spiritual leader of your army +2 S. This is the guy who, if he dies, half your army goes fleeing into a corner to cry, do you really want him in CC?

...thats a really good point actually...

Well played sir... well played.

No, it makes sense, actually.

If you're bringing an HQ that has the possibility of causing half your army to run away, then you better make sure it stays alive. The blade here is an insurance policy to make sure that last tac marine or single remaining guardsman from a blob doesn't single-handedly trigger this horrific event by doing nothing more than making it into close combat.

It's an insurance policy against disaster, not the worst possible piece of wargear.

These days, Krak Grenades on a Black Templars Chaplain. Yay, a S6 AP4 attack, totally not worse than the Crozius he's got base!

loota boy wrote:For orks..
'ard case. I get to pay 15 points to remove my ability to assault out of my wagon and shoot all my guns?! Yeah....

'ard boyz. The drawing point of boyz is that they are cheap. I don't look at boyz and think, "Hmm, these things really need an easily ignorable 4+ save, and i'm willing to pay 4 points to get it!

'eavy armour on pretty much anything, for most of the reasons above.

Stikkbomm chucka's and wreckin' balls. Stikkbomms are dumb, and wreckin' balls, while ballsy and cool, are just not worth having pretty much ever. Oh, and the grabbin' klaw. I used one once to grab an eldar skimmer. But otherwise, it should be avioded.

I think there's something odd with your reasoning here. Some of those upgrades are bad or side-grades. They may not be your cookie-cutter standard choice, but worst in 40k is far from their description. 4+ save isn't a bad save at all. Most weapons are AP5, meaning 5+ and 6+ saves are redundant to the point where I often think "what the hell are GW thinking?!" but AP4 is actually pretty damned decent.

The 'Ard case is true that it doesn't make much sense as of 5th edition and onwards, but the number of fire points isn't affected that much since you don't get many rules for how it's affected. It's still an upgrade, which is a whole bunch more if you compare to Intercept or Surprise Assault or one of those nifty Tau target priority things.

Stikkbomb Chukka can let you take out a powerfist before it can do anything. Not bad, but makes more sense for a higher initiative army.

Wreckingball is a free S9 attack to anything close to the vehicle. Got 10 points left, why not? Probably don't in a codex where you don't need 100 points to do something worthwhile, though.

Grabbin' Klaw combined with a Boarding Plank and a nob or boss of some description inside? Think outside the box. Think holding the box. And punching it. Hard.

Luide wrote:

Exergy wrote:

the_Armyman wrote:Condemnor Boltgun for the SoB. A single shot, S5 AP- weapon that causes a Perils of the Warp on an unsaved wound. If the opposing player actually has a psyker in
his army, you'd need a 6 to hit to allocate the wound to the psyker (since it's unlikely that he's not part of a unit), then you'd need to wound him, and then he would need to fail his armor save to trigger the PotW effect. All this for 15 points? I'll take a dozen!

or you use it against Grey Knights, Psyker Battle Squads and Eldar Seer Councils. Rack up those wounds!

You forgot that it only works against multi-wound psykers. All others will be dead by the unsaved wound, so they won't actually care about the perils.

Edit: fixed my quotes

I'm fairly certain it'll work great on a Brotherhood of Psychers. That means a seer council isn't very good for this reason, but since Grey Knights and PBS resolve perils of the warp against the unit and not individuals... Oh, and if you really want to you can dictate the order of shooting saves conducted so that the pistol shot is more likely to hit Eldrad or that Rune Priest. It's not a cookie-cutter, but it's not completely useless (see above) or a direct downgrade (see previously mentioned Digital Weapon).


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AlmightyWalrus wrote:These days, Krak Grenades on a Black Templars Chaplain. Yay, a S6 AP4 attack, totally not worse than the Crozius he's got base!

Am I reading the Crozius wrong? It's a power weapon, a melee weapon, right, and doesn't have a range value anywhere near 8", right? I can't find any Black Templar Chaplain, did you mean Castellan or Champion?

Mahtamori wrote:

loota boy wrote:For orks..
'ard case. I get to pay 15 points to remove my ability to assault out of my wagon and shoot all my guns?! Yeah....

'ard boyz. The drawing point of boyz is that they are cheap. I don't look at boyz and think, "Hmm, these things really need an easily ignorable 4+ save, and i'm willing to pay 4 points to get it!

'eavy armour on pretty much anything, for most of the reasons above.

Stikkbomm chucka's and wreckin' balls. Stikkbomms are dumb, and wreckin' balls, while ballsy and cool, are just not worth having pretty much ever. Oh, and the grabbin' klaw. I used one once to grab an eldar skimmer. But otherwise, it should be avioded.

I think there's something odd with your reasoning here. Some of those upgrades are bad or side-grades. They may not be your cookie-cutter standard choice, but worst in 40k is far from their description. 4+ save isn't a bad save at all. Most weapons are AP5, meaning 5+ and 6+ saves are redundant to the point where I often think "what the hell are GW thinking?!" but AP4 is actually pretty damned decent.

The 'Ard case is true that it doesn't make much sense as of 5th edition and onwards, but the number of fire points isn't affected that much since you don't get many rules for how it's affected. It's still an upgrade, which is a whole bunch more if you compare to Intercept or Surprise Assault or one of those nifty Tau target priority things.

Stikkbomb Chukka can let you take out a powerfist before it can do anything. Not bad, but makes more sense for a higher initiative army.

Wreckingball is a free S9 attack to anything close to the vehicle. Got 10 points left, why not? Probably don't in a codex where you don't need 100 points to do something worthwhile, though.

Grabbin' Klaw combined with a Boarding Plank and a nob or boss of some description inside? Think outside the box. Think holding the box. And punching it. Hard.

Best I could come up with for orks. We don't have anything as hilariously useless as some of the tau upgrades or tyranid morphs. Just listed the worst things i could think of in the dex.

Mahtamori wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:These days, Krak Grenades on a Black Templars Chaplain. Yay, a S6 AP4 attack, totally not worse than the Crozius he's got base!

Am I reading the Crozius wrong? It's a power weapon, a melee weapon, right, and doesn't have a range value anywhere near 8", right? I can't find any Black Templar Chaplain, did you mean Castellan or Champion?

Oh, meh, forgot that you could throw grenades now. At any rate, all Crozius Arcanums have been FAQ'd to Power Mauls, so S+2 AP4. Master of Sanctity/Reclusiarch=Chaplain.

Probably a Lasblaster on an Eldar Autarch. It's essentially a glorified lasgun. It costs 1 point. Why would you take this when you can take a Death Spinner or Fusion Gun?

The Shuriken Pistol he has as standard is more likely to kill something than a Lasblaster.

Jayden63 wrote:Ork combi rokkit. Its a weapon that hits once every three games.

I lol'd thanks, and yes, not a big fan of it, but I do have three on my meganobs for the average 1 hit a game. If you think about it, 3 combi rokkits are 15 points the exact cost of a hunter killer missle and combined with a better chance to hit. So maybe the hunter killer missile should be on the list?

For me , giving my Dark Reaper Exarch a Shuriken Cannon has always made me scratch my head . Sure , it's free , but your giving up his basic Reaper Launcher for it .

I've always heard it said that psilencers are a waste of points even when they're free. I'm inclined to agree with them.

While both of those are not worth while wargear changes I think it's hard to say a psilencer is worthless. I mean it can do damage to things, right? So it isn't all that bad. However, it isn't free and still sucks! But a Heavy 6 weapon does have its uses!

I think stuff that's been mentioned before that has no purpose (Tau's Command and control node: FAQ "This piece of wargear no longer has any effect) or has very little purpose (Night shields on DE vehicles now as they get a 5+ Jink save anyways) is what was originally being focused on.

Think you mean Flickerfields there. Night shields are the ones that reduce the enemy's range.

The flickerfield still has a use. I put them on my more important transports to stop them from getting blown away automatically on turn one if i go second... They are also good aganst stuff that ignores cover like flamers and hive guard

The Jink save only works if you are moving. If not, you be hosed IIRC...

Oh because of all those static DE vehicles =P And you know that vehicles are top priority for my flamers!

The only real reason I can imagine taking them is that it helps against dangerous terrain tests and Hive Guard, both of which seem pretty unlikely to me.

Note sure if this counts but Castellan Crowe's sword - its a basic CCW that buffs the enemy. No, seriously.

Iron Halo in C:BT
You are paying 25 points for a piece of wargear you can only have one per army, and yet you can take a Storm Shield for 15p, which gives a better invulnerable save, even though you can't get an extra attack for having two weapons (which AAC covers up anyway).

Dozer Blades in C:IG
They cost 10 points and the only thing they do is let you reroll failed difficult terrain tests. For starters, why would you drive around in difficult terrain anyway? That's what Guardmen are for. Besides, in that particular army, one could take so much better (and more) stuff for ten points.

Hunter-killer missile in various Codices
Well, this thing is something you could argue about. A few people will tell you it is useful, while others will say its a waste of 10 points for a BS3 Krak missile with a single shot only.

felixander wrote:Oh because of all those static DE vehicles =P And you know that vehicles are top priority for my flamers!

The only real reason I can imagine taking them is that it helps against dangerous terrain tests and Hive Guard, both of which seem pretty unlikely to me.

Never played second AS DE, have you?

They haven't moved yet, so no Jink allowed. They go down fast to long ranged fire until they get to move, as they are a tinfoil packet that can't dodge yet. Stunned or Immobilized DE vehicles also lose Jink, and it's not exactly hard to achieve that on an open-topped AV 10 skimmer

Night shields mitigate this a bit, but there are a lot of long ranged guns that will still be in range nonetheless. There's a reason flickerfields went on everything that could mount them in 5th

Heavy flamers and Flamestorm cannons can down DE vehicles fast, as most only have 2-3 HP. They can even take more than one out at a time, if they were close together and/or already damaged.

YMMV, of course, but i'm betting you've never played as DE vs creative opponents

I actually play DE frequently. I just never get first move for it to matter! I hadn't thought of that. I still think that if your opponent is blowing a single S5 hit on a Venom then obviously it's last ditch for knocking that vehicle down, which is sad for them anyways.
I don't think it's a matter of creativity. More so of desperation =D

Often it's a hull-mounted H flamer btrying to toast a venom as it cruises in for the kill, with a load of Haywire wyches

If you're in range, you may as well shoot it, and i've lost Venoms to Burnaboyz and Kombi-skorchas (and burna bommas) before

BlackRaven1987!! wrote:The most useless piece of wargear for sixth ed has to be extra armour for vehicals.

I'm going to say most vehicles in general

Digital Weapons on a Brotherhood Champion. 1 reroll to wound on a model that, thanks to his Annointed Blade, already gets to reroll to wound.

Legion of Damnation wrote:Note sure if this counts but Castellan Crowe's sword - its a basic CCW that buffs the enemy. No, seriously.

It is probably the worse. Crowe is just pretty bad. The only reason I take him is to make purifiers troops.





And the psilencer has got to be the worst. Heavy 6 S4 Ap-. For 15 points? (Correct me if im wrong) Ive found it only to be good when converting it to a psycannon.

Those 15 points Heavy Weapons for Wraiths. I can't even recall the name of those gakky guys.

^Transdimensional beamer.

For Guard, I'd say the most useless piece of gear is the vox caster, simply for the fact that you need one for every squad if you're going to take it, and that gets expensive fast - especially if you're doing MSU - for a re-roll that you might not use. It also takes up a special slot in the command squad/s you put it in, because you need to put it in a command squad if you want to use it.

For BT, it used to be Master-Crafted, because who doesn't love paying 15 points when the vow makes you re-roll to hit. Now it may be the sacred standard, just because losing combat for us is infrequent and with the new fearless we aren't going anywhere.

papathrax wrote:
For Guard, I'd say the most useless piece of gear is the vox caster, simply for the fact that you need one for every squad if you're going to take it, and that gets expensive fast - especially if you're doing MSU - for a re-roll that you might not use. It also takes up a special slot in the command squad/s you put it in, because you need to put it in a command squad if you want to use it.

I love my Vox casters. They are definitely not useless.

Mohoc wrote:

papathrax wrote:
For Guard, I'd say the most useless piece of gear is the vox caster, simply for the fact that you need one for every squad if you're going to take it, and that gets expensive fast - especially if you're doing MSU - for a re-roll that you might not use. It also takes up a special slot in the command squad/s you put it in, because you need to put it in a command squad if you want to use it.

I love my Vox casters. They are definitely not useless.

Agreed, they may be useless in a mech list, but they are very good when you run multiple footslogging Infantry platoons, which rely heavily on orders issued by the officers. In a list like that, there is nothing more annoying than an order which could have for example brought down a monstrous creature or an IC before it could have wreaked havoc among your troops.

Besides Vox casters are not that expensive. Lets assume you got a CCS, two platoons with two PCS and six IS in total. The Vox network in this case costs 45 points, which is not even a lot considering you have twice as better changes to successfully issue orders. Even an Infantry squad costs more than that. Besides, the only choices you are going to equip your PCS/CCS would be either flamers, snipers or GLs, right? Otherwise you would require a Chimera if you wanted to roll a melta PCS, for example. Veterans are better off with melta/plasma because of their BS4. A PCS with two flamers, a vox and one HF is as destructive as one with three flamers and a HF, or four flamers. One more template isn't going to turn the tide for you anyway, so that is still an entirely competitive alternative.

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:

Mohoc wrote:

papathrax wrote:
For Guard, I'd say the most useless piece of gear is the vox caster, simply for the fact that you need one for every squad if you're going to take it, and that gets expensive fast - especially if you're doing MSU - for a re-roll that you might not use. It also takes up a special slot in the command squad/s you put it in, because you need to put it in a command squad if you want to use it.

I love my Vox casters. They are definitely not useless.

Agreed, they may be useless in a mech list, but they are very good when you run multiple footslogging Infantry platoons, which rely heavily on orders issued by the officers. In a list like that, there is nothing more annoying than an order which could have for example brought down a monstrous creature or an IC before it could have wreaked havoc among your troops.

Besides Vox casters are not that expensive. Lets assume you got a CCS, two platoons with two PCS and six IS in total. The Vox network in this case costs 45 points, which is not even a lot considering you have twice as better changes to successfully issue orders. Even an Infantry squad costs more than that. Besides, the only choices you are going to equip your PCS/CCS would be either flamers, snipers or GLs, right? Otherwise you would require a Chimera if you wanted to roll a melta PCS, for example. Veterans are better off with melta/plasma because of their BS4. A PCS with two flamers, a vox and one HF is as destructive as one with three flamers and a HF, or four flamers. One more template isn't going to turn the tide for you anyway, so that is still an entirely competitive alternative.

In addition, you only put Vox Casters on things that need them. For example, if I am going to deploy a few squads outside of command range, they don't get the Vox Casters.