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Post by: Melissia
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/09/employment-rate-young-adults_n_1264241.html Are you young and looking for work? You're in good company.
Just 54 percent of Americans ages 18 to 24 currently have jobs, according to a study released Thursday by the Pew Research Center. That's the lowest employment rate for this age group since the government began keeping track in 1948. And it's a sharp drop from the 62 percent who had jobs in 2007 -- suggesting the recession is crippling career prospects for a broad swath of young people who were still in high school or college when the downturn began.
"They had the misfortune to be born at a time that would dump them into this labor market as young people," said Heidi Shierholz, a labor market economist at the Economic Policy Institute. "If we stay on the track that we're on, this cohort is not going to outpace their parents."
The Pew study arrives just days after the Labor Department's monthly jobs report, which showed the national unemployment rate trending down for a fifth straight month -- a change that many took as a sign that the economy is finally beginning to right itself. Yet joblessness is still high, and financial security remains out of reach for millions more people than just a few years ago.
Young adults were largely spared the collapse in wealth that many older Americans went through when the housing market imploded. Still, in some ways they have it the worst of any demographic. Besides the historically low employment rate for people in their late-teens and early-20s -- which is, incidentally, about 15 percentage points below the general employment rate for working-age adults, according to Pew -- the recession has eroded young workers' paychecks to a far greater degree than any other age group.
Among adults ages 18 to 34, more than a third say they have gone back to school in the face of a tough labor market, the Pew study notes. Nearly a quarter have taken an unpaid job or moved back in with parents. One in five have put off having a child or getting married due to economic concerns.
Still, the young people surveyed by Pew seem remarkably optimistic.
A full 88 percent say they're either making enough to suit their needs now, or expect to in the future. And 60 percent of people ages 18 to 34 say their children will have a better standard of living than them. That prediction is notably more confident than that of people ages 35 and older, of whom only 43 percent have a similarly hopeful view.
Young people are probably correct to say that their earning power will grow as they age, said Shierholz. But a wealth of research suggests that young people who enter the job market during a recession face years of wages that are lower than people who got there slightly sooner and had a chance to establish themselves. People who graduated and kicked off their job search in 2009 or 2010 are likely to experience pay 10 to 15 percent lower than their peers', for as much as a decade after leaving school.
If all of this seems like grim news for young people, they can at least take comfort knowing that older generations seem to recognize their struggles.
The Pew study found that among the general population, 41 percent of people think young adults have it tougher than anyone in the current job market, and a growing number of parents say they believe children should aim for economic independence by age 25, rather than a younger age.
Part of that cross-generational commiseration may come from the fact that huge segments of the national population are struggling financially right now. Shierholz told The Huffington Post that the obstacles faced by young job-seekers reflect the muted health of the overall economy.
"Things were not so great even before the recession hit," she said, citing the growth of the wage gap and the decline of labor unions -- trends that predate the current slump by several decades -- as factors keeping the lower and middle classes from achieving greater economic buoyancy. "If you want to move the dial on what's going on with young workers' unemployment, you need to help the labor market more broadly."
edit: Derpity derp, that was an unfortunate typo. Fixed the title of the thread to be less misleading.
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Post by: juraigamer
You know, with 95% of jobs that aren't fast food requiring experience, it's no wonder the younger generation can't find work.
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Post by: Shadowseer_Kim
A large part of why teens/young adults can not find jobs is the ever increasing minimum wage.
It continues to hurt the minorities and youth.
I can hire pretty much any neighborhood kid to help me do some work around my house for $5 an hour. Basic, really no training needed work.
If I wanted to hire that same kid in my shop, I would have to pay him I think $8.80 or $9.15. I forget what the minimum here is at the moment, then I would also need to pay half of his contribution to medicare, social security, workers comp, etc, making it about $13 an hour to hire a kid who does not know how to do anything and needs training.
The kids work is worth about $4-$5 an hour, but it is illegal to pay him that, so better to hire someone who already has skills, and needs less training.
This is not news.
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Post by: Melissia
Shadowseer_Kim wrote:A large part of why teens/young adults can not find jobs is the ever increasing minimum wage.
That's a pathetic little scapegoat at best. Minimum wage has stagnated; at best, it fails to keep up with inflation. And your theory doesn't pan out. Georgia has a lower minimum wage than Texas but has more unemployment than Texas, New York, etc., which have higher minimum wages, do. And even then, trying to make ends meet on 7.25 an hour when your employer only gives you 20 hours a week doesn't work.
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Post by: Shadowseer_Kim
The point of an entry level no skill job is not to make ends meet, but to give you the oppurtunity to gain some skills first hand from working. Entry level jobs are supposed to be for teens and young adults who have zero to no living expenses. You know, living with parents, or a quad or studio apartment.
Then after figuring out they want more in life, they are supposed to strive to move on to better employment.
So don't give me your garbage about trying to make ends meet on $7.25 an hour 20 hours a week aka $500 a month. I can find a room for rent at any given time for about $300-$350 with utilities included, less in a lot of places. More in some.
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Post by: Melissia
Shadowseer_Kim wrote:The point of an entry level no skill job is not to make ends meet
And yet,, despite your lame excuse of an explanation, it still needs to.
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Post by: youbedead
Shadowseer_Kim wrote:The point of an entry level no skill job is not to make ends meet, but to give you the oppurtunity to gain some skills first hand from working. Entry level jobs are supposed to be for teens and young adults who have zero to no living expenses. You know, living with parents, or a quad or studio apartment.
Then after figuring out they want more in life, they are supposed to strive to move on to better employment.
So don't give me your garbage about trying to make ends meet on $7.25 an hour 20 hours a week aka $500 a month. I can find a room for rent at any given time for about $300-$350 with utilities included, less in a lot of places. More in some.
So you are left with 150 dollars or less a month to cover all other expenses, including food, gas, medical,or any other things that can pop, good luck.
To borrow an expression form our British cousins thats bollocks
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Post by: Shadowseer_Kim
That would be your decision to have such expensive living conditions on such a wage. You can find proper housing for less. I gave a worst case scenario.
If you go with best case, aka free, living with parents, then you have $500 to do with whatever you like.
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Post by: youbedead
Shadowseer_Kim wrote:That would be your decision to have such expensive living conditions on such a wage. You can find proper housing for less. I gave a worst case scenario.
If you go with best case, aka free, living with parents, then you have $500 to do with whatever you like.
Cheapest apartments around here, 134 a week. Your original argument was that minimum wage is hurting the economy and that 500 dollars a month is enough to live on. So once again your argument is full of gak.
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Post by: Shadowseer_Kim
I realize most of you will never be convinced.
I never said the minimum wage was hurting the economy, I said it was probably the largest contributor to the high % of teen unemployment.
You may all continue on your belief that if only the minimum wage was higher, everything would be better. Ask yourself, what is a reasonable minimum wage? You all say it needs to be something you can live on, some people say it needs to be able to support a family.
So what is reasonable? $20 an hour? $40 an hour? $100 an hour? Tell your legislators to stop mucking about with these small 10 cents an hour increases in minimum wage and just step it up to whatever your number is.
Goodluck.
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Post by: deathholydeath
Shadowseer_Kim wrote:
So don't give me your garbage about trying to make ends meet on $7.25 an hour 20 hours a week aka $500 a month. I can find a room for rent at any given time for about $300-$350 with utilities included, less in a lot of places. More in some.
Please share. I would love to see this. Even the gakiest places in Louisiana have a rent of at least 600$ a month and that doesn't include utilities beyond water-- and this when Louisiana is basically the &*#hole of the United States. My experience with other places is limited to CO, and the rates here are quite expensive.
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Post by: MrDwhitey
Wait, I remember someone pulling a sort of "incredibly low cost living standard" thing before to support an argument, and being completely and utterly wrong and roundly refuted on all the costs.
Who was that again?
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Post by: Horst
yea, minimum wage won't pay for gak. However, its pretty easy for people to get a job that pays $13-15 an hour (assuming they have SOME marketable skill, and SOME work experience somewhere) which can pay the bills comfortably.
Of course, many people at the end of this demographic (the 18-24 demographic) have hefty student loans, and so require $25-$30 an hour jobs to make ends meet.
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Post by: MrDwhitey
How do student loans work over there? Do you only start paying them off once you hit a certain wage level?
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Post by: Horst
MrDwhitey wrote:How do student loans work over there? Do you only start paying them off once you hit a certain wage level?
haha, I wish. No, you start paying them off 6 months after you stop going to school full time.
If you can't get a job to pay it off... well your fethed. Go back to school again I guess?
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Post by: Ouze
Melissia wrote:Shadowseer_Kim wrote:A large part of why teens/young adults can not find jobs is the ever increasing minimum wage.
your theory doesn't pan out. Georgia has a lower minimum wage than Texas but has more unemployment than Texas, New York, etc., which have higher minimum wages, do.
QFT; since this was a great point and so was completely ignored.
so far as paying back student loans; Horst made it sound like your boned if you can't pay it back but you can apply for various different things to (temporarily) either pay it back partially or not at all for some durations. Look into income-based repayment, in which payments are lessened or completely stop until you hit a certain income threshold. You must apply for one every year, and the interest doesn't stop; but it only takes a single double sided form and you must supply a tax return.
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Post by: rubiksnoob
Please, please tell me where to find a place for 300 bucks a month! Despite the fact that they apparently abound, I have not been able to find any.
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Post by: Fafnir
I'd kill for a place that's $500 a month. My roommate and I pay $1000 a month for a piece of gak apartment that can't even guarantee hot water.
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Post by: Jihadin
They found that 75 percent of American young adults do not qualify to serve in the military because they have criminal records, are physically unfit or — the biggest reason — have inadequate levels of education. One out of every four American students fails to get the high school diploma needed to join the military.
This includes about half of the nation’s black and Hispanic students, who drop out of high school. Even more disturbing is the report’s finding that 30 percent of the young people graduating from America’s high schools don’t do well enough in math, science and English on the aptitude test to serve in the military.
Found this bit reading another article
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Post by: TheWildHost
Jihadin wrote:They found that 75 percent of American young adults do not qualify to serve in the military because they have criminal records, are physically unfit or — the biggest reason — have inadequate levels of education. One out of every four American students fails to get the high school diploma needed to join the military.
Found this bit reading another article
+
Well... good thing my problem is fixable.
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Post by: youbedead
Jihadin wrote:They found that 75 percent of American young adults do not qualify to serve in the military because they have criminal records, are physically unfit or — the biggest reason — have inadequate levels of education. One out of every four American students fails to get the high school diploma needed to join the military.
This includes about half of the nation’s black and Hispanic students, who drop out of high school. Even more disturbing is the report’s finding that 30 percent of the young people graduating from America’s high schools don’t do well enough in math, science and English on the aptitude test to serve in the military.
Found this bit reading another article
I mean no offense, but how can one-third of potential recruits be so dumb that they can even be a grunt, seriously. Thats just ... I have no words
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Post by: TheWildHost
youbedead wrote:Jihadin wrote:They found that 75 percent of American young adults do not qualify to serve in the military because they have criminal records, are physically unfit or — the biggest reason — have inadequate levels of education. One out of every four American students fails to get the high school diploma needed to join the military.
This includes about half of the nation’s black and Hispanic students, who drop out of high school. Even more disturbing is the report’s finding that 30 percent of the young people graduating from America’s high schools don’t do well enough in math, science and English on the aptitude test to serve in the military.
Found this bit reading another article
I mean no offense, but how can one-third of potential recruits be so dumb that they can even be a grunt, seriously. Thats just ... I have no words
Most young people my age just don't care, plain and simple.
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Post by: Jihadin
Dumb might not be it...unfit...criminal record already..
ASVAB test description Barney level
Hello Future Marine,
I want to clarify and try to put a stop to this statement that you need a 32 on the ASVAB.
NO friends. You need a 32 on the AFQT. The AFQT is the Armed Forces Qualification Test.
When you take the total ASVAB part of that test taking time is taking the AFQT. All the AFQT does is tell the military whether you have enough "smarts" to be in the service.
If you make the minimum AFQT test score of 32% out of 99% possible then you are mentally qualified to enter the Marines. Any more over the minimum score is nice to know but you can get in with a 32%.
Now, what IS the ASVAB? The ASVAB is the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery. It is these test questions (I think I remember that there are 200 questions) that you have to answer which will tell the military where your interests and aptitudes lie.
The ASVAB has 4 scores: There is a score for Mechanical interests; Electrical interests; Administrative interests; and General interests. From these scores the service wants to "guide" you into the jobs (MOS in the Army and Marines) that you score the highest in because that will ensure that you can be successful in that field.
Also, there are a number of sub scores that the Navy and Army and Marines use to determine which MOS or Navy Rating you are most qualified to enter.
In the Marines these are the sub scores from the ASVAB:
The ASVAB subtests for determining the composites are: General Science (GS), Arithmetic Reasoning (AR), Word Knowledge (WK), Paragraph Comprehension (PC), Numerical Operations (NO), Coding Speed (CS), Auto and Shop Information (AS), Mathematics Knowledge (MK), Mechanical Comprehension (MC), Electronics Information (EI), and Sum of Word Knowledge and Paragraph Comprehension, scaled (VE).
Current aptitude area composites used for MOS selection for the Marine Corps are as follows:
CL- Clerical, Administrative, Supply & Finance - NO + CS + VE (Note: CL Score was eliminated in late 2002. All job Marine Corps requirements that required a CL score were changed to GT Score at this time. The score requirements are the same. In other words, if a job previously required a CL score of 90, then it was changed to require a GT score of 90).
EL -Electronics Repair, Missile Repair, Electronics and Communications -GS+AR+MK+EI
MM - Mechanical Maintenance, Construction, Utility and Chemical Maintenance (hazmat) - GS+AS+MK+MC
GT - General Technical, Special and Officer Programs - VE+AR
To be in Marine Infantry MOS 0311 you need a GT score of 80.
I believe that the military is misleading when it refers to the ASVAB score by the AFQT score.
What they should do to end the confusion is to TELL you that your AFQT score to qualify to enter the military is: and then give you that number.
Then, they should tell you your real ASVAB scores to help you select the military job that you are most qualified to enter and that you have the highest chance of succeeding in.
Remember this: Everybody in the Marines is an Infantry man. You all have to learn combat skills.
Don't just give up on the other very important Marine MOS (jobs). If your ASVAB scores qualify you for a job in the Marines other than being in the Infantry then go for it.
Once you make the minimum AFQT score of 32% I don't care if you got a 50% or an 80%. All I know as a recruiter would be that I can enlist you into the Marines because you MADE the minimum or better.
Next, I want to help you get assigned to the best MOS field that will make you the most successful Marine for the Corps.
To me the ASVAB 4 area scores and the sub scores are the most important thing to consider in picking a Marine Corps MOS.
Go for your highest skill and aptitude interest area.
Semper Fi,
Larry Smith
Senior Master Sergeant, USAF (Ret.)
First Sergeant
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Post by: youbedead
Jihadin wrote:Dumb might not be it...unfit...criminal record already..
ASVAB test description Barney level
Hello Future Marine,
I want to clarify and try to put a stop to this statement that you need a 32 on the ASVAB.
NO friends. You need a 32 on the AFQT. The AFQT is the Armed Forces Qualification Test.
When you take the total ASVAB part of that test taking time is taking the AFQT. All the AFQT does is tell the military whether you have enough "smarts" to be in the service.
If you make the minimum AFQT test score of 32% out of 99% possible then you are mentally qualified to enter the Marines. Any more over the minimum score is nice to know but you can get in with a 32%.
Now, what IS the ASVAB? The ASVAB is the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery. It is these test questions (I think I remember that there are 200 questions) that you have to answer which will tell the military where your interests and aptitudes lie.
The ASVAB has 4 scores: There is a score for Mechanical interests; Electrical interests; Administrative interests; and General interests. From these scores the service wants to "guide" you into the jobs (MOS in the Army and Marines) that you score the highest in because that will ensure that you can be successful in that field.
Also, there are a number of sub scores that the Navy and Army and Marines use to determine which MOS or Navy Rating you are most qualified to enter.
In the Marines these are the sub scores from the ASVAB:
The ASVAB subtests for determining the composites are: General Science (GS), Arithmetic Reasoning (AR), Word Knowledge (WK), Paragraph Comprehension (PC), Numerical Operations (NO), Coding Speed (CS), Auto and Shop Information (AS), Mathematics Knowledge (MK), Mechanical Comprehension (MC), Electronics Information (EI), and Sum of Word Knowledge and Paragraph Comprehension, scaled (VE).
Current aptitude area composites used for MOS selection for the Marine Corps are as follows:
CL- Clerical, Administrative, Supply & Finance - NO + CS + VE (Note: CL Score was eliminated in late 2002. All job Marine Corps requirements that required a CL score were changed to GT Score at this time. The score requirements are the same. In other words, if a job previously required a CL score of 90, then it was changed to require a GT score of 90).
EL -Electronics Repair, Missile Repair, Electronics and Communications -GS+AR+MK+EI
MM - Mechanical Maintenance, Construction, Utility and Chemical Maintenance (hazmat) - GS+AS+MK+MC
GT - General Technical, Special and Officer Programs - VE+AR
To be in Marine Infantry MOS 0311 you need a GT score of 80.
I believe that the military is misleading when it refers to the ASVAB score by the AFQT score.
What they should do to end the confusion is to TELL you that your AFQT score to qualify to enter the military is: and then give you that number.
Then, they should tell you your real ASVAB scores to help you select the military job that you are most qualified to enter and that you have the highest chance of succeeding in.
Remember this: Everybody in the Marines is an Infantry man. You all have to learn combat skills.
Don't just give up on the other very important Marine MOS (jobs). If your ASVAB scores qualify you for a job in the Marines other than being in the Infantry then go for it.
Once you make the minimum AFQT score of 32% I don't care if you got a 50% or an 80%. All I know as a recruiter would be that I can enlist you into the Marines because you MADE the minimum or better.
Next, I want to help you get assigned to the best MOS field that will make you the most successful Marine for the Corps.
To me the ASVAB 4 area scores and the sub scores are the most important thing to consider in picking a Marine Corps MOS.
Go for your highest skill and aptitude interest area.
Semper Fi,
Larry Smith
Senior Master Sergeant, USAF (Ret.)
First Sergeant
I was talking about the second bit, "Even more disturbing is the report’s finding that 30 percent of the young people graduating from America’s high schools don’t do well enough in math, science and English on the aptitude test to serve in the military."
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Post by: Jihadin
AAhhh kk I'm tracking now. More I think about mor I don't like the idea there be a seperation of UNeducated american and educated americans down the road. Like (I hate to loosely term this) A worker class and a easy life class..eerrrr caste
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Post by: TheWildHost
Jihadin wrote:AAhhh kk I'm tracking now. More I think about mor I don't like the idea there be a seperation of educated american and educated americans down the road. Like (I hate to loosely term this) A worker class and a easy life class..eerrrr caste
Well, it's a rough life, but someones got to live it.
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Post by: LordofHats
Yep. I'm working part time nights at FedEx loading trucks because even when I can get a job interview (which is maybe 1 out of every 15 applications I fill out) I usually lose the job to someone older with more experience. Lots of jobs I don't get considered for at all probably cause they say they want experience I don't have.
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Post by: TheWildHost
LordofHats wrote:Yep. I'm working part time nights at FedEx loading trucks because even when I can get a job interview (which is maybe 1 out of every 15 applications I fill out) I usually lose the job to someone older with more experience. Lots of jobs I don't get considered for at all probably cause they say they want experience I don't have.
Could it be possible to lie about your experience? I may sound dumb by saying this, but it would make sense.
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Post by: LordofHats
Most places I end up signing up for say they'll do a background check. They probably don't, but its generally a risk I won't take.
Part of it though is that a lot of really good companies to work for (like FedEx and UPS) only hire from within. They make you work the crappy part time job loading trucks to get considered for full time work and management. Sometimes you have to accept that you're going to have to have a  job for a year or two to get something remotely decent and a lot of people I know aren't willing to do that. They go to college graduate, and expect to earn $80,000 a year off the bat.
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Post by: Jihadin
Bah little over two months left before I venture out in the world for...a...j...o....b...I've gone over my resume so many times now its not even funny. I actually want an office job, making decent money and not living paycheck to paycheck. As long as I can bank a couple hundred a month I would feel like I'm breaking even
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Post by: TheWildHost
LordofHats wrote:Most places I end up signing up for say they'll do a background check. They probably don't, but its generally a risk I won't take.
Well, think about it this way
You lie-
They perform BR Check, you lose.
They don't, you win.
You don't lie-
They perform BR check, you lose.
They don't, you lose.
EDIT: I don't want to sound like a D-bag here, but this is just a 14 year olds advice, take it with a grain of salt ( I think thats how the saying goes...)
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Post by: LordofHats
The problem is that there are only a few companies that do background checks (like Infomart, FedEx and the like don't actually do it, they hire some other company to do it for them). If I lie, and I get caught, my name gets flagged, and then any subsequent check it will be noted that I had made claims in the past that weren't true.
Hell I couldn't even get a security company to confirm my internship at USAHEC, and that counted against me in a later background check.
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Post by: Jihadin
If you really want to know what would pop on a background check...act like your attempting to join the National Guard. Recruiter will pull up a background sheet for you and discuss it with you on what he can and cannot do to get you in. Then you have a closure on the unknowing
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Post by: KingKodo
LordofHats wrote:Most places I end up signing up for say they'll do a background check. They probably don't, but its generally a risk I won't take.
Part of it though is that a lot of really good companies to work for (like FedEx and UPS) only hire from within. They make you work the crappy part time job loading trucks to get considered for full time work and management. Sometimes you have to accept that you're going to have to have a job for a year or two to get something remotely decent and a lot of people I know aren't willing to do that. They go to college graduate, and expect to earn $80,000 a year off the bat.
I worked at UPS for six years right when I graduated Highschool. I was hired on an airport with about 27 other kids my age. Literally all of them quit after the first few weeks besides one guy named Kyle, who is now a supervisor making 1600 a month working part time (we calculated that he is making roughly 24$ per hour). Those 26 kids that quit missed out on excellent health care, dental, vision, life and lifetime disability, stock options, retirement packages, and a 500$ pension at 5 years. They also missed out on college sponsorship programs that could pay for a bachelor's degree at UCONN or Central, in addition to $200 per credit taken at any college (that is a free 2 year degree at a CT Community college, which is why I wanted to get hired in the first place). These benefits are given to part time employees. The job is very hard, but for a time investment of 15 hours per week, I think it worth it for just about anyone.
Something to keep in mind is that this age group tends to be employed "under the table". Look at almost any landscaping or delivery company and you will find a massive percentage of people ages 18-24 working there who, according to the state, are registered as unemployed.
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Post by: Melissia
Horst wrote:yea, minimum wage won't pay for gak. However, its pretty easy for people to get a job that pays $13-15 an hour (assuming they have SOME marketable skill, and SOME work experience somewhere) which can pay the bills comfortably.
Not even with "some work experience somewhere" is it EASY to find a job. I have five summers worth of work experience, but I haven't been able to find a job in the past three years. I've tried quite hard to find it, as well, even going so far as to look at the lowest of the low, IE, fast food jobs, manual labor jobs, etc.
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Post by: hotsauceman1
Right around the time i as a workable age(2008 roughly) i looked all over, applied everywhere, and well, they always went to people looking for more flexible hours. The only reason i got my job(working at the campus cafeteria) is because i had my mom know the boss and they have 20 students who are on and off and they always need a spot to fill. But heck, im learning how to cook clean and prep food on a flame grill, The guy who is teaching me that says bosses look for those who know how to do that.
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Post by: Thaanos
Fafnir wrote:I'd kill for a place that's $500 a month. My roommate and I pay $1000 a month for a piece of gak apartment that can't even guarantee hot water.
In Hamilton Ontario there are one bedroom apartments that are about $500 a month, but those apartments are pretty bad(bug infested, no shower, just bathtubs, mysterious smells in the halls......) Most decent apartments will be at least $700 for a one bedroom, or a two bedroom for $900. And that's the city with the highest poverty rate in the entire nation. Toronto's even more expensive.
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Post by: Bromsy
If I was 18 again I'd totes be on a rig out in the Dakotas right now.
Author and Great Plains scholar Clay Jenkinson says this gold rush could be around for more than 20 years. "Someone driving a water truck now who's 19 years old can make $85,000, $100,000, $120,000 a year, plus get a vehicle and fuel," he says.
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Post by: Kovnik Obama
Thaanos wrote:Fafnir wrote:I'd kill for a place that's $500 a month. My roommate and I pay $1000 a month for a piece of gak apartment that can't even guarantee hot water.
In Hamilton Ontario there are one bedroom apartments that are about $500 a month, but those apartments are pretty bad(bug infested, no shower, just bathtubs, mysterious smells in the halls......) Most decent apartments will be at least $700 for a one bedroom, or a two bedroom for $900. And that's the city with the highest poverty rate in the entire nation. Toronto's even more expensive.
My studio appartment is 610$ no utilities. And I looked long for something cheaper that didn't involve 2 hours of commuting every day...
Admittedly, I now live right in front of Mont-Royal, which with Sainte-Catherine Street forms the 1 square kilometer containing the highest number of drop dead gorgeous women in the country... So I might be broke, but I'm happy broke 
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Post by: Jihadin
Those (some) that are coming out of highschool are short termed oriented it seems. Worry about the "now" and not the "later". The actual "work" might not what they perceived for the "pay". Also their "freedom" as in 9-5 and weekend off. The other downer is recieving a paycheck and noticing how much in taxes they're paying which result in less "fun coupons" (money). Starting off is a bummer.
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Post by: Testify
I think it's an incredible coincidence that young people are lazy and don't want to do gakky low-paid jobs...at the exact same time as there are none of these jobs around 
If you advertised around here for a minimum wage factory job you'd have dozens of applicants.
Admitidly though, young people are lazy feckless morons.
The quality of modern education is astoundingly bad too. One girl at our work has a B in English but can't write sentances properly. We let her do the facebook shoutouts (modern media yo) for a while until they realised virtually all of them were miss-spelt and completely unpunctuated.
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Post by: TheWildHost
Testify wrote:I think it's an incredible coincidence that young people are lazy and don't want to do gakky low-paid jobs...at the exact same time as there are none of these jobs around If you advertised around here for a minimum wage factory job you'd have dozens of applicants. Admitidly though, young people are lazy feckless morons. The quality of modern education is astoundingly bad too. One girl at our work has a B in English but can't write sentances properly. We let her do the facebook shoutouts (modern media yo) for a while until they realised virtually all of them were miss-spelt and completely unpunctuated.
Forum grammar Nazis will change that.... Hell, I've learned more about writing properly on the internet than in last year[']s[Mod: it's a possessive] English class! But yes most young people are lazy gak heads (I spend all day on my arse.)
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Post by: Kilkrazy
I wouldn't worry too much.
My generation's career prospects were "ruined for life" by graduating into the early 80s recession, followed by the early 90s recession and the early 2000s recession. It seemed gakky at the time, but we managed to survive somehow.
Once the economy makes an uptick people will start to get hired again.
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Post by: Surtur
Shadowseer_Kim wrote:The point of an entry level no skill job is not to make ends meet, but to give you the oppurtunity to gain some skills first hand from working. Entry level jobs are supposed to be for teens and young adults who have zero to no living expenses. You know, living with parents, or a quad or studio apartment.
Then after figuring out they want more in life, they are supposed to strive to move on to better employment.
So don't give me your garbage about trying to make ends meet on $7.25 an hour 20 hours a week aka $500 a month. I can find a room for rent at any given time for about $300-$350 with utilities included, less in a lot of places. More in some.
California, min wage $8.00, cost of a single apartment is approx 1k a month, double about 1.2k. Full time minimum wage is scraping by after food, household supplies, rent, gas and maintenance.
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Post by: ShumaGorath
youbedead wrote:Shadowseer_Kim wrote:That would be your decision to have such expensive living conditions on such a wage. You can find proper housing for less. I gave a worst case scenario.
If you go with best case, aka free, living with parents, then you have $500 to do with whatever you like.
Cheapest apartments around here, 134 a week. Your original argument was that minimum wage is hurting the economy and that 500 dollars a month is enough to live on. So once again your argument is full of gak.
Do you live on the bottom of the ocean? Where the hell is rent that cheap?
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Post by: Testify
ShumaGorath wrote:youbedead wrote:Shadowseer_Kim wrote:That would be your decision to have such expensive living conditions on such a wage. You can find proper housing for less. I gave a worst case scenario.
If you go with best case, aka free, living with parents, then you have $500 to do with whatever you like.
Cheapest apartments around here, 134 a week. Your original argument was that minimum wage is hurting the economy and that 500 dollars a month is enough to live on. So once again your argument is full of gak.
Do you live on the bottom of the ocean? Where the hell is rent that cheap?
Even though I disagree with everything that guy said...
Derby has places for 104 USD a week:
http://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/details/15949813?search_identifier=BjlTX/AUAKtgr3DLJMgEKw
Right next to the city centre too. There's plenty of others in that price range.
We don't all live in North Lundun, yo'know 
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Post by: ShumaGorath
Testify wrote:ShumaGorath wrote:youbedead wrote:Shadowseer_Kim wrote:That would be your decision to have such expensive living conditions on such a wage. You can find proper housing for less. I gave a worst case scenario.
If you go with best case, aka free, living with parents, then you have $500 to do with whatever you like.
Cheapest apartments around here, 134 a week. Your original argument was that minimum wage is hurting the economy and that 500 dollars a month is enough to live on. So once again your argument is full of gak.
Do you live on the bottom of the ocean? Where the hell is rent that cheap?
Even though I disagree with everything that guy said...
Derby has places for 104 USD a week:
http://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/details/15949813?search_identifier=BjlTX/AUAKtgr3DLJMgEKw
Right next to the city centre too. There's plenty of others in that price range.
We don't all live in North Lundun, yo'know
Rent in the UK is cheap  . I was paying six times that up until a month ago.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Not where I live. I'm paying £1,100 a month for a two bed flat in Reading.
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Post by: Melissia
Testify wrote:I think it's an incredible coincidence that young people are lazy
That's a cute little lie you tell yourself so you can look down on young people.
Young people are no more or less lazy than they have always been.
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Post by: TheWildHost
Melissia wrote:Testify wrote:I think it's an incredible coincidence that young people are lazy
That's a cute little lie you tell yourself so you can look down on young people.
Young people are no more or less lazy than they have always been.
Nope, we are lazy-er.
EDIT: As a whole group.
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Post by: Melissia
As a group, we really aren't.
Our opportunities are lower, but that doesn't mean we're lazier.
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Post by: TheWildHost
Melissia wrote:As a group, we really aren't.
Our opportunities are lower, but that doesn't mean we're lazier.
Our opportunities? For what? I never said jobs, just lazy.
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Post by: Melissia
I've seen no evidence that the current group of youths is any lazier than any other group of youths in the past.
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Post by: Testify
Melissia wrote:Testify wrote:I think it's an incredible coincidence that young people are lazy
That's a cute little lie you tell yourself so you can look down on young people.
Young people are no more or less lazy than they have always been.
Way to just ignore literally everything that I said in that post.
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Post by: Melissia
When the premise of your entire post is false, what else can I say?
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Post by: TheWildHost
Melissia wrote:I've seen no evidence that the current group of youths is any lazier than any other group of youths in the past.
High obesity rates, and even then there are a ton of pot heads who do nothing but sit around all day ( Not all pot heads, but I know a few who have spent two days locked in their rooms doing nothing but smoking pot and eating lays.
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Post by: Testify
I was contrasting the claim of right-wing commentators with the actual facts of low unemployment - that IF young people ARE lazy then it's a shocking coincidence that it's happened when there are no jobs for them to go into.
I'm 23 and I spent 2 years being unemployed so please don't tell me about how hard it is to find work okay? Automatically Appended Next Post: TheWildHost wrote:Melissia wrote:I've seen no evidence that the current group of youths is any lazier than any other group of youths in the past.
High obesity rates, and even then there are a ton of pot heads who do nothing but sit around all day ( Not all pot heads, but I know a few who have spent two days locked in their rooms doing nothing but smoking pot and eating lays.
Sending off a CV takes like 20 seconds. Smoking weed doesn't make you less likely to apply for jobs.
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Post by: Melissia
TheWildHost wrote:High obesity rates
Doesn't indicate laziness. It indicates a poor diet. TheWildHost wrote:and even then there are a ton of pot heads
The highest figure I could find is one in ten youths. That is not exactly a very sizable minority.
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Post by: TheWildHost
Melissia wrote:TheWildHost wrote:High obesity rates
Doesn't indicate laziness. It indicates a poor diet.
Poor diet? Poor diet can be negated with moderate exercise, plus you can have a poor diet and not be obese.
TheWildHost wrote:and even then there are a ton of pot heads
The highest figure I could find is one in ten youths. That is not exactly a very sizable minority. ( I am not good at quoting But you said this)
One out of ten is a fairly large part, granted it is a small minority.
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Post by: ShumaGorath
Testify wrote:Melissia wrote:Testify wrote:I think it's an incredible coincidence that young people are lazy
That's a cute little lie you tell yourself so you can look down on young people. Young people are no more or less lazy than they have always been.
Way to just ignore literally everything that I said in that post.
I think why I don't like posting on this forum is because you people have the ability to ignore the fact that only 2 of the six years in 18-24 are teen years and instead just flop around arguing whether teen people are lazy. Not that either of you back up your claims in any way at all anyway.
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Post by: Melissia
I'm not the one making the claim in the first place, Shuma. I quote:
Melissia wrote:I've seen no evidence that the current group of youths is any lazier than any other group of youths in the past.
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Post by: Testify
ShumaGorath wrote:Testify wrote:Melissia wrote:Testify wrote:I think it's an incredible coincidence that young people are lazy
That's a cute little lie you tell yourself so you can look down on young people.
Young people are no more or less lazy than they have always been.
Way to just ignore literally everything that I said in that post.
I think why I don't like posting on this forum is because you people have the ability to ignore the fact that only 2 of the six years in 18-24 are teen years and instead just flop around arguing whether teen people are lazy. Not that either of you back up your claims in any way at all anyway.
Are you doubting that youth unemployment is high?
Or that there is a shortage of low-skilled jobs traditionally filled by young people?
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Post by: ShumaGorath
Melissia wrote:TheWildHost wrote:High obesity rates
Doesn't indicate laziness. It indicates a poor diet. TheWildHost wrote:and even then there are a ton of pot heads
The highest figure I could find is one in ten youths. That is not exactly a very sizable minority.
Obesity is an artefact of diet and a lack of regular exercise as influenced by the modern globalized economies push towards less manual and more sedentary labor. As for pot, it's not a youth affliction, it's a generational one that's moved into people in their late 20s by now. The young aren't really dramatically more likely to smoke weed, if anything they're logically less so as they have less floating cash and they're still under closer parental scrutiny. Automatically Appended Next Post: Testify wrote:ShumaGorath wrote:Testify wrote:Melissia wrote:Testify wrote:I think it's an incredible coincidence that young people are lazy
That's a cute little lie you tell yourself so you can look down on young people.
Young people are no more or less lazy than they have always been.
Way to just ignore literally everything that I said in that post.
I think why I don't like posting on this forum is because you people have the ability to ignore the fact that only 2 of the six years in 18-24 are teen years and instead just flop around arguing whether teen people are lazy. Not that either of you back up your claims in any way at all anyway.
Are you doubting that youth unemployment is high?
Or that there is a shortage of low-skilled jobs traditionally filled by young people?
I'm arguing that the couple of you are having a pointless and meaningless side argument because of a seeming lack of ability to interface with the actual content of the topic.
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Post by: Testify
ShumaGorath wrote:
I'm arguing that the couple of you are having a pointless and meaningless side argument because of a seeming lack of ability to interface with the actual content of the topic.
Not really an arguement, Melissa just miss-understood something I said. No harm done.
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Post by: youbedead
ShumaGorath wrote:youbedead wrote:Shadowseer_Kim wrote:That would be your decision to have such expensive living conditions on such a wage. You can find proper housing for less. I gave a worst case scenario.
If you go with best case, aka free, living with parents, then you have $500 to do with whatever you like.
Cheapest apartments around here, 134 a week. Your original argument was that minimum wage is hurting the economy and that 500 dollars a month is enough to live on. So once again your argument is full of gak.
Do you live on the bottom of the ocean? Where the hell is rent that cheap?
Phoenix, Arizona. You can find pretty cheap housing in certain areas. Though I live an ahwatukee so house prices are stupidly inflated around here.
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Post by: Jihadin
18 is the start of adulthood. At 18 you can die in service for your country. At 21 you can legally drink...which still makes me chuckle but hey its the law.
There is a mark between this generation of youth to youths twenty years ago.
Back then
1. Parents were allowed to "beat" their kids for screwing up.
2. Parents grounding their kids when they screw up in school.
3. Fast food (BK, McD's what have you) was seen as a treat
4. No PS, Xbox, or 400 channels to choose from
5. Schooling was better (fear of getting grounded or ass beaten plays a part)
6. Hanging out with friends involve playing tackle football
7. Who had the coolest BMX/freestyle bike
8. Actually had to crack the book open and read to do homework and hope you had the encycopedia collection to get those essay done (Fear of getting grounded or your ass beaten plays into it)
9. Milk/water/tea was the norm at dinner
10. Respect
to name a few. Take a today youth back to that time...poor kid be hanging from the closest rafter/tree/lightpole/stairwell/whatever has the height to do the job
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Post by: Melissia
Which is little more than unfounded arrogance really.
I did more manual labor to earn my college tuition than most youths in those years, myself., and I was certainly not alone in this.
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Post by: Jihadin
But that was within your sphere Mel. Also I don't know how old you are. Soon as I posted the above comment I also remember where I am now with what I have and bouncing against what I know with all my highschool friends back then. I know a few that would probaly kill themselves if WoW stops, couple of them are diabetic now due to all the freaking soda they drink, one thats quite a pothead, few with some drinking issue, few that literally never progressed after highschool.
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Post by: TheWildHost
Jihadin wrote:18 is the start of adulthood. At 18 you can die in service for your country. At 21 you can legally drink...which still makes me chuckle but hey its the law.
There is a mark between this generation of youth to youths twenty years ago.
Back then
1. Parents were allowed to "beat" their kids for screwing up.
2. Parents grounding their kids when they screw up in school.
3. Fast food (BK, McD's what have you) was seen as a treat
4. No PS, Xbox, or 400 channels to choose from
5. Schooling was better (fear of getting grounded or ass beaten plays a part)
6. Hanging out with friends involve playing tackle football
7. Who had the coolest BMX/freestyle bike
8. Actually had to crack the book open and read to do homework and hope you had the encycopedia collection to get those essay done (Fear of getting grounded or your ass beaten plays into it)
9. Milk/water/tea was the norm at dinner
10. Respect
to name a few. Take a today youth back to that time...poor kid be hanging from the closest rafter/tree/lightpole/stairwell/whatever has the height to do the job
Honestly, I think after a few days, I would be fine with that, well, maybe a few weeks.
Looking back at my previous posts after thinking about them I realize, i'm an idiot.
I think the problem is that some people don't look/try hard enough, or have a narrow selection of the job they want.
If gak hits the fan I am just going to go to trade school, learn to be a pipe fitter like my dad, brother, and great grand-father. Now it isn't necessarily the persons fault if they can't find a job, economy's tough, but if you know the right people (You don't even have to do that) you can find something.
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Post by: d-usa
I am a pretty obese fattie, always have been. Never been "lazy" though.
I have worked 40+ hours a week since I turned 17 (14 years ago), I spend 5 of those years also going to school full time. 5 of those years were spend running my fat & lazy butt into burning buildings to save lives as a hobby (volunteer firefighter), spend 20+ hours a week doing that in addition to working full time because I enjoyed helping my fellow man.
I run, I have done a few 5k's, looking forward to a half marathon in April. I work out and eat pretty decent. And despite all of that I am still obese. Sucks, but that is life.
Obesity is not an indicator of lazyness. Plenty of skinny lazy people out there. Just bugs me that people assume that fattie here must be doing nothing but sit on his behind all day because he is fat.
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Post by: KingKodo
How the hell is 10% a small minority? I do not understand young people nowadays, and I am one of them dangit! Automatically Appended Next Post: d-usa wrote:I am a pretty obese fattie, always have been. Never been "lazy" though.
I have worked 40+ hours a week since I turned 17 (14 years ago), I spend 5 of those years also going to school full time. 5 of those years were spend running my fat & lazy butt into burning buildings to save lives as a hobby (volunteer firefighter), spend 20+ hours a week doing that in addition to working full time because I enjoyed helping my fellow man.
I run, I have done a few 5k's, looking forward to a half marathon in April. I work out and eat pretty decent. And despite all of that I am still obese. Sucks, but that is life.
Obesity is not an indicator of lazyness. Plenty of skinny lazy people out there. Just bugs me that people assume that fattie here must be doing nothing but sit on his behind all day because he is fat.
If you do not mind me asking, how tall are you and how much do you weigh? I am 6'4" and weigh in at 250Lbs. I can bench around 300lbs any day of the week. My doctor recently told me that I am on the verge of being obese -_-
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Post by: d-usa
I'm flat out on the fat side. 5'10 and 275.
I will admit to being out of shape any day of the week, but call me lazy and I get pissed. 
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Post by: deathholydeath
Jihadin wrote:
There is a mark between this generation of youth to youths twenty years ago.
Back then
1. Parents were allowed to "beat" their kids for screwing up.
No. No, they weren't.
Jihadin wrote:2. Parents grounding their kids when they screw up in school.
Parents still do this.
Jihadin wrote:3. Fast food (BK, McD's what have you) was seen as a treat
What decade are you talking about? Twenty years ago was 1992, not 1952.
Jihadin wrote:4. No PS, Xbox, or 400 channels to choose from
Just NES, Genesis, SNES, Arcades, and a couple hundred stations.
Jihadin wrote:5. Schooling was better (fear of getting grounded or ass beaten plays a part)
In the late 80s and early 90s? Really? Where are you living? Riverdale?
Jihadin wrote:6. Hanging out with friends involve playing tackle football
Yeah, if you like that kind of thing. Not everyone does. That same 10% we discussed earlier spent their days listening to Nirvana and smoking pot while the nerds read comic books and *gasp* played video games.
Jihadin wrote:7. Who had the coolest BMX/freestyle bike
More personal flavor.
Jihadin wrote:8. Actually had to crack the book open and read to do homework and hope you had the encycopedia collection to get those essay done (Fear of getting grounded or your ass beaten plays into it)
Yeah, now those crazy kids just have to use that newfangled encyclopedia called the interwebs-- a source every bit as unreliable as Encyclopedia Brittanica.
Jihadin wrote:9. Milk/water/tea was the norm at dinner
Do we not drink these things anymore?
Jihadin wrote:10. Respect
... Right 
Jihadin wrote:Take a today youth back to that time...poor kid be hanging from the closest rafter/tree/lightpole/stairwell/whatever has the height to do the job
Technology addiction is something I can agree with you about. Ever seen Hot Tub Timemachine?
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Post by: Jihadin
Active life style doesn't mean your lazy. You spend like 4-5 hrs at a site (guessing) putting out a fire wearing a your gear and what not. I say you have pretty strong cardio. Heck I spend an hour in the morning doing unit PT and pretty much sit behind a desk all day...actually I use to. Currently I'm a bit busted up from an IED two years ago and still recovering. I'm not lazy though. I do enjoy my down time as much as anybody. Think lazy is being applied to young individuals who do not put forward an effort to actually improve their current situation nor willing to make the sacrifice. Individuals looking for high pay minimum work Like someone posted on here spending two years as busboy and another spending a couple years at FEDEX.
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Post by: Kovnik Obama
KingKodo wrote:How the hell is 10% a small minority? I do not understand young people nowadays, and I am one of them dangit!
Wait wut...? You'd like to claim that 10% is a large minority? As opposed to, let's say, 30-49% ???
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Post by: d-usa
Jihadin wrote:Active life style doesn't mean your lazy. You spend like 4-5 hrs at a site (guessing) putting out a fire wearing a your gear and what not. I say you have pretty strong cardio. Heck I spend an hour in the morning doing unit PT and pretty much sit behind a desk all day...actually I use to. Currently I'm a bit busted up from an IED two years ago and still recovering. I'm not lazy though. I do enjoy my down time as much as anybody. Think lazy is being applied to young individuals who do not put forward an effort to actually improve their current situation nor willing to make the sacrifice. Individuals looking for high pay minimum work Like someone posted on here spending two years as busboy and another spending a couple years at FEDEX.
I was mostly replying to the "Obesity is an indicator of lazyness" argument that was being made by some.
My favorite fires were brush/grass fires. 6 hours of chasing after fires in a brush truck, digging firelines with rakes and showels, running away from the flames. Those were good times.
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Post by: deathholydeath
d-usa wrote:Jihadin wrote:Active life style doesn't mean your lazy. You spend like 4-5 hrs at a site (guessing) putting out a fire wearing a your gear and what not. I say you have pretty strong cardio. Heck I spend an hour in the morning doing unit PT and pretty much sit behind a desk all day...actually I use to. Currently I'm a bit busted up from an IED two years ago and still recovering. I'm not lazy though. I do enjoy my down time as much as anybody. Think lazy is being applied to young individuals who do not put forward an effort to actually improve their current situation nor willing to make the sacrifice. Individuals looking for high pay minimum work Like someone posted on here spending two years as busboy and another spending a couple years at FEDEX.
I was mostly replying to the "Obesity is an indicator of lazyness" argument that was being made by some.
My favorite fires were brush/grass fires. 6 hours of chasing after fires in a brush truck, digging firelines with rakes and showels, running away from the flames. Those were good times.
In many cases, Obesity is a genetic or environmental issue and has little to do with how "in shape" one really is. Take Sumo Wrestlers for an example.
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Post by: Kovnik Obama
Jihadin wrote:Active life style doesn't mean your lazy. You spend like 4-5 hrs at a site (guessing) putting out a fire wearing a your gear and what not. I say you have pretty strong cardio. Heck I spend an hour in the morning doing unit PT and pretty much sit behind a desk all day...actually I use to. Currently I'm a bit busted up from an IED two years ago and still recovering. I'm not lazy though. I do enjoy my down time as much as anybody. Think lazy is being applied to young individuals who do not put forward an effort to actually improve their current situation nor willing to make the sacrifice. Individuals looking for high pay minimum work Like someone posted on here spending two years as busboy and another spending a couple years at FEDEX.
I resent being called lazy because I've worked a long time as a busboy. When you're 18, in College, and lives in a town with exactly 4 employers (2 restaurants, 1 convenience store and the town), you take what you can. Honestly this is pretty frakking insulting of you, you have not a single clue of the gak I went through with this job, or even that I ever complained because I wanted to obtain a better paying job for no work. What is it, you think your entitled to judge other's hardship because of yours? Well, to do that, you'd have to actually have an idea of other's hardship, and a reason to pass judgement.
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Post by: djones520
youbedead wrote:Jihadin wrote:They found that 75 percent of American young adults do not qualify to serve in the military because they have criminal records, are physically unfit or — the biggest reason — have inadequate levels of education. One out of every four American students fails to get the high school diploma needed to join the military.
This includes about half of the nation’s black and Hispanic students, who drop out of high school. Even more disturbing is the report’s finding that 30 percent of the young people graduating from America’s high schools don’t do well enough in math, science and English on the aptitude test to serve in the military.
Found this bit reading another article
I mean no offense, but how can one-third of potential recruits be so dumb that they can even be a grunt, seriously. Thats just ... I have no words
When my father was an Air Force recruiter a decade ago he told me that the national average on the ASVAB (test to get into the military) was well below the minimum Air Force standards. I imagine that it has only gotten worse since then. No job in the US military can be accomplished by a mouth breather who can't be bothered to do something as simple as complete High School, even those who are just the "grunts".
Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for apartments, there are 2 bedrooms in the town I live in (about 20 minutes from St. Louis) for $600. Should be easily obtainable for 2 room mates.
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Post by: Jihadin
Did you miss the sacrifice and time spent to get there piece?
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Post by: djones520
When I was 19 as an E-3 in the Air Force I was making $7.50 an hour based on my salary and the hours I worked in a month. I managed to pay car insurance, a new car payment, split rent/utilities/cable on an apartment with one other person, and still eat.
I was making $7.50 an hour working as a meteorologist forecasting for 13 differant military installations in a 6 state area. I cannot argue that Burger Flipper McGee at McDonalds was doing work that was on par with mine, but he was making atleast equal if not better pay.
Now as a 10 year E-5 I make roughly $29 an hour (nearly a third of that is based on cost of living in the area I live in, and is subject to change when I move). My current job is labelled as "Lead Weather Forecaster" for the largest military Air Operation Center in the world. I'm effectively responsible for providing weather protection/support for 150-200 aircraft flying anywhere in the world per given shift, and I mean anywhere. US, Antartica, Europe, Afghanistan, Australia, you name it we're flying there and I'm watching it. You think your local weather forecaster has a hard job working in one area, try this out. As my time spent on the job has increased, so has my experience, responsibilities, and pay.
I'm very much a supporter of you earn pay based apon what you do. Arguing that some guy lugging lumber around for 5-6 hours a day is entitled to $12-15 an hour is ludicrous in my opinion. If he can't find work any better then that is a result if his choices. He could have tried harder in school. And don't give me crap about being disadvantaged or something like that. I went to a public high school in the poorest county in Michigan, and still managed to graduate a semester early. My parents at the time had a combined salary of about $60k a year both working full time, so a free ride to college wasn't an option. I could still be at my high school taco bell job making minimum wage, but I made choices to apply myself, and provide a better life for myself and my family. I had just as many hurdles facing me as anyone else in this country, but I didn't make excuses about it, I just set out to find out what I could do, and I did it.
*knows that what I just posted will be unpopular with many here, but doesn't care.*
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Post by: Kovnik Obama
Jihadin wrote:Did you miss the sacrifice and time spent to get there piece?
Did you miss everything else in your own post??? You say young people are lazy because they want high paying job without work or sacrifice. Then you give me as an example. I mentionned my work as a busboy for two years as a suggestion to someone who said they had been unemployed for 2 years, since in my opinion working even an entry level job, in a well reputed place, is better than not working at all. How is that an indicator of my lazyness???
Not only did you fail the reading comprehension part of the test, you also managed to turn whatever you could take from it into an insult. 32% passing grade, heh? No frakking wonders...
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Post by: Ahtman
djones520 wrote:I was making $7.50 an hour working as a meteorologist forecasting for 13 differant military installations in a 6 state area. I cannot argue that Burger Flipper McGee at McDonalds was doing work that was on par with mine, but he was making atleast equal if not better pay.
He also didn't have a mess to go to if needed, military discount, health insurance, preferred interest rates, ect ect. There are more benifits to a given job than just the salary, and I would bet that being in the armed forces has more perks than being a burger flipper. Of course the burger flipper won't be arrested if he decides not to work, and other little freedoms such as that.
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Post by: djones520
Ahtman wrote:djones520 wrote:I was making $7.50 an hour working as a meteorologist forecasting for 13 differant military installations in a 6 state area. I cannot argue that Burger Flipper McGee at McDonalds was doing work that was on par with mine, but he was making atleast equal if not better pay.
He also didn't have a mess to go to if needed, military discount, health insurance, preferred interest rates, ect ect. There are more benifits to a given job than just the salary, and I would bet that being in the armed forces has more perks than being a burger flipper. Of course the burger flipper won't be arrested if he decides not to work, and other little freedoms such as that.
Bingo. Burger Flipper didn't give up a good chunk of his rights (1st Amendment, etc...). Burger Flipper doesn't have to be ready to be sent to a place where people are actively trying to saw your head off with a rusty fork. Burger Flippers contract doesn't have a clause that you have to specifically sign saying your acknowledge that you may be asked to kill people in your line of work. Burger Flipper gets paid extra for working more then 40 hours a week. When I was making that pay, I was working 48 hours a week, with no time and a half.
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Post by: J-Roc77
d-usa wrote:Jihadin wrote:Active life style doesn't mean your lazy. You spend like 4-5 hrs at a site (guessing) putting out a fire wearing a your gear and what not. I say you have pretty strong cardio. Heck I spend an hour in the morning doing unit PT and pretty much sit behind a desk all day...actually I use to. Currently I'm a bit busted up from an IED two years ago and still recovering. I'm not lazy though. I do enjoy my down time as much as anybody. Think lazy is being applied to young individuals who do not put forward an effort to actually improve their current situation nor willing to make the sacrifice. Individuals looking for high pay minimum work Like someone posted on here spending two years as busboy and another spending a couple years at FEDEX.
I was mostly replying to the "Obesity is an indicator of lazyness" argument that was being made by some. My favorite fires were brush/grass fires. 6 hours of chasing after fires in a brush truck, digging firelines with rakes and showels, running away from the flames. Those were good times.
WEWT! Fire for the win! I loved my time in fire management, one of the hardest jobs I have ever done. People tap out because of the heat and exercise requirements all the time. We had guys that didn't make it past the first day on a fire many a time. I agree with your post about obesity does not equal lazyness, some of my co workers were rotund but pulled their share of work all season. It boils down to determination in a job like that. That type of job gave me satisfaction at the end of the day I did not get at other jobs as you could see the work you did rather than stacks of papers that keep coming in and out. Whenever someone in my area is looking for a job I point out the EFF (Emergency Fire Fighter) program nearby, some take it and love it, others wash out and want to work in air conditioning despite the pay. Oh yeah, fire management over here takes people no experience necessary start at the bottom (9-13 dollars an hour is bottom depending on the position you apply for...not bad eh?) and a few years in you can have some quals a bit of a raise. Not for everybody, definitely not for the lazy. For the on topic portion of the comment, this type of work is seasonal for most of the workers. Unemployment for half of the year give or take a few months. As for obesity, BMI is not a good measurement. @KovnikObama, I think you are misreading Jihadin's post which is also quoted above. If I am not mistaken he is using you as the example of working jobs to get experience first like you did.
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Post by: deathholydeath
djones520 wrote:Ahtman wrote:djones520 wrote:I was making $7.50 an hour working as a meteorologist forecasting for 13 differant military installations in a 6 state area. I cannot argue that Burger Flipper McGee at McDonalds was doing work that was on par with mine, but he was making atleast equal if not better pay.
He also didn't have a mess to go to if needed, military discount, health insurance, preferred interest rates, ect ect. There are more benifits to a given job than just the salary, and I would bet that being in the armed forces has more perks than being a burger flipper. Of course the burger flipper won't be arrested if he decides not to work, and other little freedoms such as that.
Bingo. Burger Flipper didn't give up a good chunk of his rights (1st Amendment, etc...). Burger Flipper doesn't have to be ready to be sent to a place where people are actively trying to saw your head off with a rusty fork. Burger Flippers contract doesn't have a clause that you have to specifically sign saying your acknowledge that you may be asked to kill people in your line of work. Burger Flipper gets paid extra for working more then 40 hours a week. When I was making that pay, I was working 48 hours a week, with no time and a half.
Right. You signed a contract mitigating a very few of your first amendment rights. You might also be required to kill people or be in a position in which you would be indirectly responsible for the deaths of others. But you knew this when you signed on. You chose to accept the terms to limit your rights in order to gain the benefits of the job. Likewise, a burger flipper limits his 1st amendment rights as well: He/she has only a limited capacity for free speech during the hours he/she works. He/she accepts that he/she might be injured in the job or subjected to abuse from customers in which case he/she will be eligible for worker's comp. So, in this manner, any worker limits their rights and accepts the responsibility to do things they would not ordinarily want to do (for example, cleaning toilets in a subway system) in exchange for pay. These workers are at least nominally aware of the contract that they're entering into. Just as you were. This makes your point of contention based on rights irrelevant-- it's a play across the field. However, no modern U.S. corporation gives ordinary workers regular hours above 39 a week-- if they do that the employees are "full time" and must be given benefits and over time pay. It's easier and cheaper to hire a large rotating crew of expendable people than a small one of crucial people. It eliminates a significant margin of cost and provides overlap in schedules for conflict. To reiterate the point: a single minimum wage job by itself is not enough to live off of.
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Post by: Ahtman
djones520 wrote:Ahtman wrote:djones520 wrote:I was making $7.50 an hour working as a meteorologist forecasting for 13 differant military installations in a 6 state area. I cannot argue that Burger Flipper McGee at McDonalds was doing work that was on par with mine, but he was making atleast equal if not better pay.
He also didn't have a mess to go to if needed, military discount, health insurance, preferred interest rates, ect ect. There are more benifits to a given job than just the salary, and I would bet that being in the armed forces has more perks than being a burger flipper. Of course the burger flipper won't be arrested if he decides not to work, and other little freedoms such as that.
Bingo. Burger Flipper didn't give up a good chunk of his rights (1st Amendment, etc...). Burger Flipper doesn't have to be ready to be sent to a place where people are actively trying to saw your head off with a rusty fork. Burger Flippers contract doesn't have a clause that you have to specifically sign saying your acknowledge that you may be asked to kill people in your line of work. Burger Flipper gets paid extra for working more then 40 hours a week. When I was making that pay, I was working 48 hours a week, with no time and a half.
The point isn't to create a false sense of superiority, but to realize that they aren't really comparable through only an hourly wage. Of course the burger flipper doesn't have to do all that stuff, but he also doesn't get the benefits either. The burger flipper also won't be able to get a no (or stupidly low) mortgage interest loan, college tuition, or any number of things that putting up with others do not. Terrorists want to kill all sorts of people, not just soldiers; you'll notice the victims of 9/11 and the Londom Train Bombing weren't service men and women. People volunteering for the service know that they are signing up for such scenarios, so it seems a bit odd to act like a martyr for having done it. It's like becoming a police officer and then complaining you have to deal with criminals.
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Post by: d-usa
Everybody knows that military service cannot be combared on a $ to $ basis with civilian jobs. There are a large number of benefits soldiers get in addition to their "hourly" pay as well as additional benefits after discharge.
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Post by: Kovnik Obama
J-Roc77 wrote:@KovnikObama, I think you are misreading Jihadin's post which is also quoted above. If I am not mistaken he is using you as the example of working jobs to get experience first like you did.
Honestly, if that's the meaning of it, then it's seriously poorly phrased :
'' [..] Think lazy is being applied to young individuals who do not put forward an effort to actually improve their current situation nor willing to make the sacrifice. Individuals looking for high pay minimum work Like someone posted on here spending two years as busboy and another spending a couple years at FEDEX. ''
When someone describes something, then immediatly uses the term 'Like', I'm assuming that it's a direct reference to what he was just describing.
I also doubt that given the fact the he could've simply replied : 'you misunderstood, I used you and Lordofhats as examples of the contrary'.
For feth's sake, I already have a bias against military types that I'm trying to work on, between that and the jarhead who came to talk to me this morning as I was taking a morning stroll in the park, completly cracked out of his mind, and who kept on repeating how great a person he was, and how lucky I was to talk to him, I'm not getting any better...
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Post by: TheWildHost
d-usa wrote:Everybody knows that military service cannot be combared on a $ to $ basis with civilian jobs. There are a large number of benefits soldiers get in addition to their "hourly" pay as well as additional benefits after discharge.
As my 7th grade science teacher put it (This was a few years ago, but this is a summarized version.)
"For 20 years of your life, the military will give you health benefits, housing, food, water, and at the age of 38 you can retire with a fat wallet and livable income, in exchange for this, you must trade the time most people consider the "Best" part of their lives for retiring 20 year early, and the chance that you won't make it out alive, I think of it as a fair trade."
He was a really cool guy, got fired, but that is ott.
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Post by: Testify
deathholydeath wrote:d-usa wrote:Jihadin wrote:Active life style doesn't mean your lazy. You spend like 4-5 hrs at a site (guessing) putting out a fire wearing a your gear and what not. I say you have pretty strong cardio. Heck I spend an hour in the morning doing unit PT and pretty much sit behind a desk all day...actually I use to. Currently I'm a bit busted up from an IED two years ago and still recovering. I'm not lazy though. I do enjoy my down time as much as anybody. Think lazy is being applied to young individuals who do not put forward an effort to actually improve their current situation nor willing to make the sacrifice. Individuals looking for high pay minimum work Like someone posted on here spending two years as busboy and another spending a couple years at FEDEX.
I was mostly replying to the "Obesity is an indicator of lazyness" argument that was being made by some.
My favorite fires were brush/grass fires. 6 hours of chasing after fires in a brush truck, digging firelines with rakes and showels, running away from the flames. Those were good times.
In many cases, Obesity is a genetic or environmental issue and has little to do with how "in shape" one really is. Take Sumo Wrestlers for an example.
No. When you eat more calories than you burn, you gain weight. Do this a lot and you get fat, do it more and you get obese.
There's also "technical" obesity using the BMI, but that doesn't distinguish between muscle and fat.
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Post by: dogma
deathholydeath wrote:
In many cases, Obesity is a genetic or environmental issue and has little to do with how "in shape" one really is. Take Sumo Wrestlers for an example.
Rikishi get paid to be obese, they're not a good example.
Horst wrote:
If you can't get a job to pay it off... well your fethed. Go back to school again I guess?
Blood from a stone. Automatically Appended Next Post: deathholydeath wrote:
Likewise, a burger flipper limits his 1st amendment rights as well: He/she has only a limited capacity for free speech during the hours he/she works.
The First Amendment doesn't protect you from the private limitation of speech.
deathholydeath wrote:
He/she accepts that he/she might be injured in the job or subjected to abuse from customers in which case he/she will be eligible for worker's comp.
No, workers' compensation is not mandatory with acceptance of a position.
deathholydeath wrote:
However, no modern U.S. corporation gives ordinary workers regular hours above 39 a week-- if they do that the employees are "full time" and must be given benefits and over time pay.
Full-time is defined by the employer in most cases. You can work more than 40 hours per week and still be part-time.
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Post by: mattyrm
deathholydeath wrote:
In many cases, Obesity is a genetic or environmental issue and has little to do with how "in shape" one really is. Take Sumo Wrestlers for an example.
Oh come on man! That's just PC nonsense... in many cases!? Hardly any!
Seriously.. SOME people are obese for genetic issues, but 99% of obese people are obese because the fat feths eat too many cakes and don't do enough exercise!
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Post by: Melissia
Or more likely they just eat too much greasy fast food and not enough exercise.
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Post by: mattyrm
Melissia wrote:Or more likely they just eat too much greasy fast food and not enough exercise.
Well, either or.
The point is, the overwhelming majority of obese people are obese through their own fault. I know its possible to have a glandular problem or something, but such things are incredibly rare.
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Post by: deathholydeath
dogma wrote:
Rikishi get paid to be obese, they're not a good example.
I should have separated those two statements. Rikishi are a good example of obese people who are fit. Here's a better example. A friend of mine has Grave's disease. He is what many would consider obese. However, he can benchpress an incredible amount and works 12 hour shifts as an engineer on a casino boat. I would consider him "in shape." dogma wrote:The First Amendment doesn't protect you from the private limitation of speech.
Not exactly what I was referencing. Private limitation of speech comes about through contractual obligations. It's a choice the individual makes when he accepts the terms of employment. It was a comparison to military employment. dogma wrote:No, workers' compensation is not mandatory with acceptance of a position.
Any company that doesn't want to be sued for liability issues provides worker's comp. dogma wrote:Full-time is defined by the employer in most cases. You can work more than 40 hours per week and still be part-time.
It is, that's true. That would be why I put "full time" in quotes. The Fair Labor Standards Act requires employers to pay time and a half to workers who work over 40 hours a week. So, most companies define full time as 40+ hours a week. Automatically Appended Next Post: mattyrm wrote:Melissia wrote:Or more likely they just eat too much greasy fast food and not enough exercise.
Well, either or. The point is, the overwhelming majority of obese people are obese through their own fault. I know its possible to have a glandular problem or something, but such things are incredibly rare.
It's much more difficult for a person to lose weight than it is to gain it. The human body is geared toward survival, storing fat for periods of low food intake. It's something a lot of people aren't aware of when they begin a diet. Going on a diet can actually cause one's metabolic rate to lower since the body thinks it's going through a scarcity period. Glandular problems also aren't that rare.
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Post by: dogma
deathholydeath wrote:
I should have separated those two statements. Rikishi are a good example of obese people who are fit. Here's a better example. A friend of mine has Grave's disease. He is what many would consider obese. However, he can benchpress an incredible amount and works 12 hour shifts as an engineer on a casino boat. I would consider him "in shape."
There's a good argument to be made that many outwardly fit people are obese, and that the same health issues apply. NFL linemen are good example of obese, but fit, people who suffer very high rates of health issues in their mid-lives.
deathholydeath wrote:
Any company that doesn't want to be sued for liability issues provides worker's comp.
That depends heavily on where you live, look at Texas.
deathholydeath wrote:
It's much more difficult for a person to lose weight than it is to gain it.
That depends on the person, and how much of that weight is fat. Its actually quite easy to lose weight if you're especially rotund. It really doesn't get difficult until you're under 10% body fat.
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Post by: DIDM
to think that only people living at home should make minimum wage is laughable at best. In a perfect world that would be true, but here in reality most everyone getting a new job these days is getting under 40 hours and getting paid minimum wage. I'm talking MOST people here. Sure there are a lot who have degrees and experience, but anyone else gets fethed hard. No full time cause they don't want to have to pay benefits, and no raises, cause hiring someone new is easier.
Maybe in little ol Springfield things may be different, but here in the city life sucks for a lot of people, especially young people. Lots of people work 2 jobs and still don't get 40 hours a week. There has been a change in company owners minds. Instead of making happy employees who grow your business you make pissed off employees who hate your company and tell everyone they know not to support it.
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Post by: Shadowseer_Kim
@didm - Firstly, hating life in the big city and finding it too difficult to make ends meet? Move.
Things are the same way in my town, most jobs out there start at minimum wage and are around 30 hours a week. It is no different. My primary point was that constantly increasing the minimum wage is part of the problem.
You know why we do not have teen age kids bagging groceries at the supermarket anymore? Because that work is not worth $7-$9 an hour, so that job combined with counting bottle returns by hand (which was much more pleasant than the machines) went away.
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Post by: DIDM
Shadowseer_Kim wrote:@didm - Firstly, hating life in the big city and finding it too difficult to make ends meet? Move.
Things are the same way in my town, most jobs out there start at minimum wage and are around 30 hours a week. It is no different. My primary point was that constantly increasing the minimum wage is part of the problem.
You know why we do not have teen age kids bagging groceries at the supermarket anymore? Because that work is not worth $7-$9 an hour, so that job combined with counting bottle returns by hand (which was much more pleasant than the machines) went away.
currently happily employed
just saying, times they have changed. There is NO consideration to making your employees happy anymore. They have found ways to make employees do more work for less money because people will take it, cause there is nothing else. I have a good job and both my Dad's own their own businesses, I have talked to them a lot about this, and it is all across the board. Everyone works on a skeleton crew now, and is not compensated any more than they used to be.
Gone are the days when your boss had an open door policy and actually cared about their employees. We are in the drive through era of employment. If you don't like it pull forward, there are 30 people standing in line behind you.
and the only reason the minimum wages rises is because of that thing called inflation. When the cost of living raises faster than the minimum wage is when we start having problems. Unless you want the youth of the nation to eat gak food, mainly fast food, then they need money to go grocery shopping.
I grew up in WI, not sure if it is still the same there, but if you made tips in any way, no matter how much, they could pay you $3.33 an hour to work. Imagine being young and living in your own apartment, oh wait, you can't afford a one bedroom apartment, you need a few roommates. So you pay $350 a month in RENT, then utilities, they don't come with places anymore. Now you are sitting there at noon on a tuesday with no one in the place. Now imagine you get some customers in a day, but not much, since you know, we are in a recession and folks are stopping to go out to eat. In your 5 hour shift you may get $10 in tips, then your wage, a whole $16 bucks. Yea, real easy to live on, I spend more than that on beer some days.
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Post by: mattyrm
deathholydeath wrote:
It's much more difficult for a person to lose weight than it is to gain it. The human body is geared toward survival, storing fat for periods of low food intake. It's something a lot of people aren't aware of when they begin a diet. Going on a diet can actually cause one's metabolic rate to lower since the body thinks it's going through a scarcity period.
Glandular problems also aren't that rare.
Sure they are! Define "not that rare" for me.
I said 99%, Ill happily stick with that.
If you take 100 obese people, 99 of them are obese through poor diet/exercise regime. Maybe one of them has an actual medical issue.
Ergo, its very rare.
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Post by: Jihadin
Drink water
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Post by: Shadowseer_Kim
@Didm - I am glad to hear you are making it.
Most of us are struggling right now. Most other business owners I know think of thier employees like family and hope to never cut thier hours or fire them.
It can be tough though, and sometimes a cut in everyones hours makes more sense in your head than firing someone who doesn't really deserve it.
The entire economy sucks, and on inflation, I am afraid we have not really hit it yet.
Luckily, I have continued to find ways to trim stuff from my budget (about to go from cable internet to dsl.) I also rent a room in my house for $350 with utilities included, but from what everyone on here says, I should raise it to at least $400-450.
But yes overall I agree with you, the larger and larger less locally owned businesses are less friendly towards thier employees. My city is small enough that your average business still has someones name on it. You can on any given day, walk in as a customer and talk to the owner.
As for the food thing, I agree people should eat well, and I have proven rather reliably in other threads that you can actually eat better and more cheaply grocery shopping than fast food, boxed, prepared food.
I know in my area, and probably most others, they cut home ec from the schools. That and my mother are the places I learned to cook, sew, use metal and wood working tools, write a household budget, etc. It was mandatory for everyone.
Out of curiousity how many of you under 30 dakkanuts had to and did take cooking classes in school?
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Post by: Asherian Command
I am thankful that I have a job,
Most of my friends do not have a job. They kinda depend on their parents for money.
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Post by: Jihadin
Out of curiousity how many of you under 30 dakkanuts had to and did take cooking classes in school?
My mom trained me quite well...same as my dad....wait I'm 30 going on 42
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Post by: dogma
Shadowseer_Kim wrote:
Out of curiousity how many of you under 30 dakkanuts had to and did take cooking classes in school?
I did. We had to take a semester in junior high and a semester in high school, but in high school they didn't take attendance so it was basically a free period.
Honestly, I learned all my domestic skills from Bob Vila, Norm Abram, and Julia Child.
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Post by: Melissia
I learned from personal experience. My family never was much in to cooking meals, but I enjoy cooking for family...
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Post by: Asherian Command
Melissia wrote:I learned from personal experience. My family never was much in to cooking meals, but I enjoy cooking for family...
I am different than this. I love cooking, same with every single member of my family. We are Food Conquistadors. But thats off topic.
Cooking is taught at my school. But its retardly easy, and they have a final on the blasted thing. And it is difficult to everyone that has cooked before. Except for me. I took the test and I made a Green Curry for them and walked out with an A+
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Post by: Coolyo294
Shadowseer_Kim wrote:Out of curiousity how many of you under 30 dakkanuts had to and did take cooking classes in school?
I have. They're pretty fun.
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Post by: RatBot
Shadowseer_Kim wrote:
Out of curiousity how many of you under 30 dakkanuts had to and did take cooking classes in school?
Not cooking per se, but everyone in my High School had to take Home Ec or whatever they called it, and that involved a bit of cooking.
I guess I'm no longer in the "youth" demographic (I'll be 26 in September), but I can commiserate. I have a degree but it's pretty useless, worked a dead end job for a year that provided me with no transferable skills. That ended (contract with client ended, so at least I wasn't fired!), so I've been facing the conundrum of having a degree but no real skills and having to compete with dozens of other experienced people for any other job I apply to. I guess my best bet at this point is to go back to school and learn something useful, which I've applied to do... of course, now I'm going to be facing gigantic student loans, assuming I get in. Ugh. But really, I think at this point it's the best option.
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Post by: dogma
RatBot wrote: I guess my best bet at this point is to go back to school and learn something useful, which I've applied to do... of course, now I'm going to be facing gigantic student loans, assuming I get in. Ugh. But really, I think at this point it's the best option.
If you want to feel better, I graduated with 110-120k (can't recall exactly) in debt.
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Post by: Fafnir
I took home economics throughout junior high, but am terrible at sewing and even worse at cooking.
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Post by: Shadowseer_Kim
I feel much less depressed now. Thanks guys.
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Post by: Kovnik Obama
Shadowseer_Kim wrote:Out of curiousity how many of you under 30 dakkanuts had to and did take cooking classes in school?
I didn't, they phased out the course the year before I got into highschool, along Latin... I really wished I had some, maybe I'd be better at cooking. I'm just horrible at it really... just plain baaad... If what I'm cooking involves more than 3 ingredients, and maybe more than 4 seperates steps of preparation, you can be sure it's going to be crappy, and that at least half of it will be burned...
50% + of my meals are homemade thai soup w/ beef cubes and whatever appropriate vegetable I have on hand...
Maybe I could start a 'Help Kovnik Not Sucks With Food' thread... ? Automatically Appended Next Post: dogma wrote:If you want to feel better, I graduated with 110-120k (can't recall exactly) in debt.
Bloody hell 
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Post by: Jihadin
Dr. Dogma PHD Neurosurgeon.......I think not...Apothacary Dogma thats a nice shiney Reductor you have there. What Chapter?
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Post by: deathholydeath
dogma wrote:RatBot wrote: I guess my best bet at this point is to go back to school and learn something useful, which I've applied to do... of course, now I'm going to be facing gigantic student loans, assuming I get in. Ugh. But really, I think at this point it's the best option.
If you want to feel better, I graduated with 110-120k (can't recall exactly) in debt.
In total? Or just undergraduate?
I think my own debt is around 40k at this point. I've paid off a lot of it, but I had the benefit of several scholarships during school.
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Post by: RatBot
I feel I should add that, to make things more depressing for me, this decision to return to school comes after a year of being unable to find a job, due to the awesome and seemingly contradictory causes of having a degree and thus being overqualified for many jobs, while simultaneously not having enough experience and thus not being qualified for the rest.
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Post by: dogma
deathholydeath wrote:
In total? Or just undergraduate?
Undergraduate only. It was ~45k per year with room and board, and then reduced by some grants and scholarships. I paid ~5k first year, ~15k second year, ~35k third, and ~45k fourth; throw in interest and you get to my total debt (mostly private loans). Its been paid off for a couple years though.
I didn't pay for graduate school, the fine citizens of the United States paid me to tolerate their children (and paid off much of my privately held student debt).
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Post by: deathholydeath
mattyrm wrote:deathholydeath wrote:
It's much more difficult for a person to lose weight than it is to gain it. The human body is geared toward survival, storing fat for periods of low food intake. It's something a lot of people aren't aware of when they begin a diet. Going on a diet can actually cause one's metabolic rate to lower since the body thinks it's going through a scarcity period.
Glandular problems also aren't that rare.
Sure they are! Define "not that rare" for me. I said 99%, Ill happily stick with that. If you take 100 obese people, 99 of them are obese through poor diet/exercise regime. Maybe one of them has an actual medical issue. Ergo, its very rare.
2% of the world's females suffer from Graves' disease, so about 140,000,000 women worldwide. It's a bit rarer in males. That's only a single disorder and it creates a significant minority. Automatically Appended Next Post: dogma wrote:deathholydeath wrote:
In total? Or just undergraduate?
Undergraduate only. It was ~45k per year with room and board, and then reduced by some grants and scholarships. I paid ~5k first year, ~15k second year, ~35k third, and ~45k fourth; throw in interest and you get to my total debt (mostly private loans). Its been paid off for a couple years though. I didn't pay for graduate school, the fine citizens of the United States paid me to tolerate their children (and paid off much of my privately held student debt).
Sounds like you got out pretty well. A number of my friends have been unable to find sustainable jobs after graduation; I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.
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Post by: LordofHats
2% of the world's females suffer from Graves' disease, so about 140,000,000 women worldwide. It's a bit rarer in males. That's only a single disorder and it creates a significant minority.
Define significant. 140,000,000 is a significant number in and of itself. 2% however is an insignificant number, even if that number is 140,000,000. EDIT: Or as comrade Stalin says, a statistic 
Math is fun
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Post by: deathholydeath
LordofHats wrote:2% of the world's females suffer from Graves' disease, so about 140,000,000 women worldwide. It's a bit rarer in males. That's only a single disorder and it creates a significant minority.
Define significant. 140,000,000 is a significant number in and of itself. 2% however is an insignificant number, even if that number is 140,000,000. EDIT: Or as comrade Stalin says, a statistic
Math is fun
Significant is a relative term. It depends entirely on who is reading the statistics.
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Post by: Dreadwinter
mattyrm wrote:deathholydeath wrote:
In many cases, Obesity is a genetic or environmental issue and has little to do with how "in shape" one really is. Take Sumo Wrestlers for an example.
Oh come on man! That's just PC nonsense... in many cases!? Hardly any!
Seriously.. SOME people are obese for genetic issues, but 99% of obese people are obese because the fat feths eat too many cakes and don't do enough exercise!
Actually, genetic issues are not the only reason. I am considered obese. 5'10 240 pounds. The way I am built, 180 pounds is my ideal weight.
This is a pipe dream for me. Not because I am lazy, but because of my job. I work 12 hour shifts at night. I get home as the sun is coming up. I have about 2-3 hours after I get home to take care of daily things around the house before I need to be back in bed.
When I am off work, in order for me to have any recreational time with friends, I usually need to completely change up my sleeping schedule to hang out with them. Couple that with already having sleeping problems bases on my shift, and you have a terrible time. I can either stay up for a full 24 to 36 hours to re adjust while I am off work or I can stay on my normal schedule and be solitary and alone.
Either way, I am usually left too tired to manage exercise because my body is having a hard time dealing with my current sleep schedule. When the sun first goes down, I start to get sleepy, because my body thinks that no sun time is sleepy time. This is usually after I have been awake 3 or so hours.
So, there is an environmental reason somebody could be obese. Another environmental reason could be allergies and sinuses, serious cases of this leave a lot of people too weak for many activities. Depression is another reason.
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Post by: dogma
deathholydeath wrote:A number of my friends have been unable to find sustainable jobs after graduation; I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.
Blood from a stone.
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Post by: Kovnik Obama
Dreadwinter wrote:
This is a pipe dream for me. Not because I am lazy, but because of my job. I work 12 hour shifts at night. I get home as the sun is coming up. I have about 2-3 hours after I get home to take care of daily things around the house before I need to be back in bed.
When I am off work, in order for me to have any recreational time with friends, I usually need to completely change up my sleeping schedule to hang out with them. Couple that with already having sleeping problems bases on my shift, and you have a terrible time. I can either stay up for a full 24 to 36 hours to re adjust while I am off work or I can stay on my normal schedule and be solitary and alone.
Either way, I am usually left too tired to manage exercise because my body is having a hard time dealing with my current sleep schedule. When the sun first goes down, I start to get sleepy, because my body thinks that no sun time is sleepy time. This is usually after I have been awake 3 or so hours.
I just started night shift. I've found that sleeping less actually helps a bit (around 6 hours a ''night''). Otherwise, any good tips to avoid feeling like a zombie?
The one thing I find is that I'm no longer hungry. I'll sometimes eat an apple when I should eat a meal, and even then, I'm forcing myself to...
10050
Post by: Dreadwinter
It is a tricky thing man. I can survive on 6 hours a night. I have also found that an hour or two nap and I am pretty good for 8 or so hours.
Eating is an issue because sometimes I forget to take food to work and don't realize I haven't eaten until 8 or so hours in to it. So make sure you remember you still need to eat, because that will hit you hard. Don't force yourself to eat too much. You can easily over eat in that case. If you just started, give yourself time to adjust to it. You still start to get your hunger back.
Summer isn't as bad as winter. You will really have trouble then. You go in to work at night and get off work with it still dark. Gotta make sure to get as much sun as you can. Drink plenty of vitamin c also. Odd sleep hours and lack of sun jacks up your immune system like you wouldn't believe. Grape juice and orange juice are your buddies.
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Post by: dogma
Kovnik Obama wrote:Otherwise, any good tips to avoid feeling like a zombie?
I don't work a night shift, but I do pull overnight "shifts" often. My suggestions are caffeine, water, and hourly breaks.
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Post by: Kovnik Obama
Dreadwinter wrote:It is a tricky thing man. I can survive on 6 hours a night. I have also found that an hour or two nap and I am pretty good for 8 or so hours.
Eating is an issue because sometimes I forget to take food to work and don't realize I haven't eaten until 8 or so hours in to it. So make sure you remember you still need to eat, because that will hit you hard. Don't force yourself to eat too much. You can easily over eat in that case. If you just started, give yourself time to adjust to it. You still start to get your hunger back.
Summer isn't as bad as winter. You will really have trouble then. You go in to work at night and get off work with it still dark. Gotta make sure to get as much sun as you can. Drink plenty of vitamin c also. Odd sleep hours and lack of sun jacks up your immune system like you wouldn't believe. Grape juice and orange juice are your buddies.
Thanks! I might not be doing this during the winter, unless the student strike continues, but if I do I'll make sure to do a crapload of snowshoeing during the day. And of course I've already caught a cold, despite the average temp outside being what, 27 degrees?
@Dogma ; Thanks too! Yeah caffeine is currently my greatest ally. I'll need to start doing more sports too, since I'm feeling completely wracked all the time...
7926
Post by: youbedead
Kovnik Obama wrote:Dreadwinter wrote:
This is a pipe dream for me. Not because I am lazy, but because of my job. I work 12 hour shifts at night. I get home as the sun is coming up. I have about 2-3 hours after I get home to take care of daily things around the house before I need to be back in bed.
When I am off work, in order for me to have any recreational time with friends, I usually need to completely change up my sleeping schedule to hang out with them. Couple that with already having sleeping problems bases on my shift, and you have a terrible time. I can either stay up for a full 24 to 36 hours to re adjust while I am off work or I can stay on my normal schedule and be solitary and alone.
Either way, I am usually left too tired to manage exercise because my body is having a hard time dealing with my current sleep schedule. When the sun first goes down, I start to get sleepy, because my body thinks that no sun time is sleepy time. This is usually after I have been awake 3 or so hours.
I just started night shift. I've found that sleeping less actually helps a bit (around 6 hours a ''night''). Otherwise, any good tips to avoid feeling like a zombie? The one thing I find is that I'm no longer hungry. I'll sometimes eat an apple when I should eat a meal, and even then, I'm forcing myself to...
Melatonin supplements work really well, you can find 'em at trader joes or most pharmacies. Take one pefer bed and not only will it knock you but it helps adjust you bodies circadian rhythm. Melatonin is the chemical your body produces that makes you drowsy and force you to actually sleep. Oh and if you do find yourself never encountering sun ever, then you might want to find someway to actually simulate sunlight, a sunlight bulb if possible. It may not effect you but a lot of people will go into horrible crippling depression during the winter months, especially if your asleep during daylight.
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Post by: Frazzled
Melissia wrote:Shadowseer_Kim wrote:The point of an entry level no skill job is not to make ends meet
And yet,, despite your lame excuse of an explanation, it still needs to.
No, it doesn't actually. Automatically Appended Next Post: Ouze wrote:Melissia wrote:Shadowseer_Kim wrote:A large part of why teens/young adults can not find jobs is the ever increasing minimum wage.
your theory doesn't pan out. Georgia has a lower minimum wage than Texas but has more unemployment than Texas, New York, etc., which have higher minimum wages, do.
QFT; since this was a great point and so was completely ignored.
so far as paying back student loans; Horst made it sound like your boned if you can't pay it back but you can apply for various different things to (temporarily) either pay it back partially or not at all for some durations. Look into income-based repayment, in which payments are lessened or completely stop until you hit a certain income threshold. You must apply for one every year, and the interest doesn't stop; but it only takes a single double sided form and you must supply a tax return.
Thats what happens when government takes over the loan business. If it were private, you'd just file. Automatically Appended Next Post: Melissia wrote:I've seen no evidence that the current group of youths is any lazier than any other group of youths in the past.
My neighbor belies that statement (unless we were always that lazy). Automatically Appended Next Post: There's an additional point you're not discussing.
Unless you have skills (technical/trade) you have to compete with people who may have literally risked their lives to get here to try to do the same job you're applying for. They are going to do a better job than you can, and are willing to be paid less to do it. Automatically Appended Next Post: Melissia wrote:I learned from personal experience. My family never was much in to cooking meals, but I enjoy cooking for family...
In my day of shining youth,cooking was for the wimminz. Hunting the mastadons was the job of the menz.
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Post by: Easy E
Back to the topic of youth unemployment, I have heard many journalist reports of older people staying in the workforce longer, while youth unemployment keeps rising. That seems inefficient for a society to operate.
In addition, as mor eand more of the simple work becomes automated, that leaves a serious gap at the lower end of the employment food chain.
How do you suppose society can adapt to these two changing conditions?
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Post by: Jihadin
Learn how to repair automated equipment
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Post by: Easy E
Oh, the Willy Wonka solution.
The problem is you only need a handful of repairmen for a multiple factories, where the factories use to employ many more people.
That's how an individual can solve for themselves, but what about the larger society?
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Post by: youbedead
Easy E wrote:Oh, the Willy Wonka solution.
The problem is you only need a handful of repairmen for a multiple factories, where the factories use to employ many more people.
That's how an individual can solve for themselves, but what about the larger society?
Hope you live long enough that fusion power and replicater's are invented then never worry about everything ever again
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Post by: Frazzled
Easy E wrote:Back to the topic of youth unemployment, I have heard many journalist reports of older people staying in the workforce longer, while youth unemployment keeps rising. That seems inefficient for a society to operate.
In addition, as mor eand more of the simple work becomes automated, that leaves a serious gap at the lower end of the employment food chain.
How do you suppose society can adapt to these two changing conditions?
Get rid of kids? Automatically Appended Next Post: Easy E wrote:Oh, the Willy Wonka solution.
The problem is you only need a handful of repairmen for a multiple factories, where the factories use to employ many more people.
That's how an individual can solve for themselves, but what about the larger society?
Gladiator Academy?
50512
Post by: Jihadin
Apply for positions that make the automated parts. The best bet the younger generation can do is project in advance where/what/when jobs are in demand. See what one skill they can learn that'll be able to branch off into other fields.
Example. I'm currently a 88N Movement Coordinator. Logistical.
Most people think trucks which is true
I know rail operations (it sucks) Space utilization on a rail flatbed can be interesting in figuring out. Most time its coming up with the right chain tie downs
I also know Seaport operation to load container ships
I also know Airport operations. I know what I can load and what I can't load on certain aircraft. In whatever configuration to maxumize loadout
I know HAZMAT. I can prepare and signed HAZDECS for dangerous cargo
lot more to it but thats an idea. Once you get a security clearence the ballfield just got bigger. Pay though is a big increase
So basically...research whats going to be in demand.2-3 down the road
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Post by: Easy E
Jihadin wrote:Apply for positions that make the automated parts. The best bet the younger generation can do is project in advance where/what/when jobs are in demand. See what one skill they can learn that'll be able to branch off into other fields.
Yeah, the problem is people are pretty bad at this predictign the future thing. HHowever, on that front I found this article from Forbes somewhat interesting.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/richkarlgaard/2012/02/22/manpowergroups-jeff-joerres-on-the-skills-gap/
here is another one about the dreaded "Plumber Gap" from Popular Mechanics...
http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/improvement/electrical-plumbing/4305487
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Post by: dogma
Frazzled wrote:My neighbor belies that statement (unless we were always that lazy).
And I'm 26 and "Dr." goes in front of my name.
There are always exceptions.
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Post by: Vulcan
TheWildHost wrote:LordofHats wrote:Yep. I'm working part time nights at FedEx loading trucks because even when I can get a job interview (which is maybe 1 out of every 15 applications I fill out) I usually lose the job to someone older with more experience. Lots of jobs I don't get considered for at all probably cause they say they want experience I don't have.
Could it be possible to lie about your experience? I may sound dumb by saying this, but it would make sense.
As soon as they catch you in the lie you're out the door with a bad reference. And it's remarkably easy to catch someone lying about their experience. Automatically Appended Next Post: I have recently given up on permanent employment and gone with a temp agency. It took them under an hour to find me a full-time, M-F 2nd shift position.
Granted, there's no telling how long it will last, but at least it's full time.
The bennies aren't all that great, but they are no worse than those available to the fast food places I've worked in the past... and the insurance costs about a THIRD of what the typical restaurant or retail job would offer.
And worst comes to worst, I'm no worse off than before. Best case it's a 'temp to hire' position and I can parlay my gained experience into a permanent position.
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Post by: Frazzled
dogma wrote:Frazzled wrote:My neighbor belies that statement (unless we were always that lazy).
And I'm 26 and "Dr." goes in front of my name.
There are always exceptions.
yea but you're not living next to frazzled, and worrying him about not getting off his lawn... 
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