Ok, so I thought of this a joke to begin with, but then realized its actually pretty powerful:

Epidemius 110
Herald of Nurgle, Aura of Decay 85

(15) Plaguebearers, Chaos Icon 250
(15) Plaguebearers, Chaos Icon 250
(10) Plaguebearers 150
(10) Plaguebearers 150
(7) Plaguebearers 105
(6) Plaguebearers 90

(12) Screamers 192
(12) Screamers 192
(12) Screamers 192

Big Mek, bosspole 40
(30) Grots, 4x Runtherd 120

Aegis Defence line, Comms relay 70

= 1996

Looks like complete gak, right? Lots of Plaguebearers who won't do crap, a pile of Screamers, and some random Grots.

Well, wait for it, it gets better. A lot better

Split your waves like this:
Epi+Herald of Nurgle+1x15 PB, 2x10 PB, 2x Screamers
1x15 PB, 1x7 PB, 1x6 PB, 1x Screamers

Deploy your Grots around the Aegis line for cover saves. Hope for the right wave. If you get the wrong one, oh well, you've got a rerollable 3+ for Epi next turn.

When Epi comes in, proceed as follows:

DS his squad near the Grots. Move the Grots into a clump near him and the Herald, try to get them all within 6" of both of them (they should be on the edge of the PB unit). Activate Aura of Decay on both Epi and the Herald, causing str2 hits on every enemy model within 6". Yes, the Grots count as enemy models

Kill around 25 Grots on average. You now have maximum Tally, so your PB's now wound on 2+ in CC, ignore armor saves, and have a 3+ FnP against EVERYTHING except str10. Charge forward, profit. (Remember to run the surviving Grots out of 6" from Epi's squad, so on a roll of 1 don't stand around doing nothing.)

The Screamers are there to break vehicles. You PB's will murder anything else.

Sure, Flyers are hard to deal with, just camp objectives and roll saves. If you're placing KP's, you can just concede

I'd actually like to try this out, as not many armies can deal with (essentially) 63 THSS running at them. (t5 5++ 3+ FnP is around as effective as t4 2+ against torrent, against high str/low AP the PB's are far better. They wound on 2+ in CC at ap2, but get to strike at i2 ) Don't get me wrong, this isn't the greatest list ever, but it would sure be awesome to play with

So, what do you guys think? Is this "The gak" or just plain old gak? D

I must admire your creativity- and the idea of sacrificing a herd of grots to papa nurgle sounds rather appropriate. Not sure how I'd react if you pulled it on me, given how unexpected it is. I think I'd just have to hope that you'd stay out of range. Or that I'd brought some vindicators that you hadn't already busted.

Definitely style points, the substance doesn't really matter after that does it?

Pretty cool design. I did something similar in a team game w/ a spawn sorc. and a grot mob back in 3.5 with fun results.

I like the screamers as your AT. This list is ridiculous and awesome at the same time. You will destroy assaulty armies, and close-range shooting armies. Your biggest weakness? Epi himself. As an infantry with t5 w3 and 5+/5+ save, he will die to 30 bolter shots (40 if behind the aegis). He can't join squads, which makes him prey for ling range armies (Hello, tau broadsides!). After he's dead, your army kind of collapses. What are your ideas? Hide him behind a juicy piece of terrain?

If that's the case, your biggest weakness would be fast armies, deep-strikers, flyers, or outflankers. Anyone that can angle a shot to hit him. Try to find a way around this weakness and your list will be nasty. How about take double FOC, and add some allied plaguemarine bikers? Or better yet, Plague Terminators! They will be an excellent bodyguard. You can also block LOS using metal bawkses. Just a suggestion. Good luck, and enjoy this army. Seems really good vs Space Pups and the like.

dnptan wrote:Your biggest weakness? Epi himself. As an infantry with t5 w3 and 5+/5+ save, he will die to 30 bolter shots (40 if behind the aegis). He can't join squads, which makes him prey for ling range armies (Hello, tau broadsides!). After he's dead, your army kind of collapses. What are your ideas? Hide him behind a juicy piece of terrain?

If that's the case, your biggest weakness would be fast armies, deep-strikers, flyers, or outflankers. Anyone that can angle a shot to hit him. Try to find a way around this weakness and your list will be nasty. How about take double FOC, and add some allied plaguemarine bikers? Or better yet, Plague Terminators! They will be an excellent bodyguard. You can also block LOS using metal bawkses. Just a suggestion. Good luck, and enjoy this army. Seems really good vs Space Pups and the like.

Epidemus would work much better in a death guard army. Lots of bolters and as you said plague terminators to up the tally. Hell take 3 squads of havocs with autocannons and mark of nurgle and watch the tally fly. As for protecting Epi, easy with a CSM army, just build a rhino wall around him full of plague marines.

Just checked the Codex, Epidemius is an IC, so he'll be joined to one of the big 15 man PB squads.


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The problem with Epi in a Chaos army is that you actually have to kill 20 of your opponents models to get the benefits. Against hordes its not that hard, but against marines, 20 guys is usually about half/a third of their whole army. By taking grots you get your tally up as soon as you come on.

Yeah he's an IC, but still if he's in front, he can die pretty fast with the new shooting rules. Consider getting a bastion? For 75 points, you can put him in an AV14 thing with infinite hull points at the backfield.

I'll probably stick him right at the back of the unit, and if a random Ordnance shot or sneaky side shot does manage to hit him, with Look out Sir, Eternal warrior, 3 wounds and a 5++/3+ FnP, he should be pretty hard to kill.

fun list...would be interesting to see this being played and what your opponent could do about it. All I know is that if I was playing this list I would put everything on Epidimius. I good opponent should be able to hunt him down by turn 4, and since he's soft in general....he might die.

But yeah, 10 for style...you'll beat a ton of people who aren't familiar with how you operate. Fun for sure....

Interesting concept. I like it! Might have to give it a try, though I will probably combine it with the Flying Circus:

Fateweaver
Epidemius
Big Mek

4x10 of plaguebearers
9x Nurglings
29x Grots, 2x Runtherds

3x Nurgle Flying DP's - (1 w/Aura)


BTW, you can only get max 3 runtherds. That'll save you 10pts.

This is epic

I'd consider taking a unit of loota's though. Even out the sizes of the PB units and try to get 10 in for additional transport hunting and some much needed ranged support. Seeing as you've already taken (and made brilliant use of) the HQ + Troop allies "tax", you just as well take the oppertunity to cash in another briliant Ork unit. They can provide something Daemons struggle to bring to the table themselves, and aren't too expensive.

Exalted, this is boss!

This is possibly the most interesting list I've seen in my whole time playing 40k hahaha.
Would love to see it in action.

Definitely a 10 for creativity.

i LOVE this idea. Feeding grots to papa nurgle is awesome-sauce.

One idea though...Could you use guardsmen instead of grots? That way, you could take some other stuff in your allied list which might give you some shootiness. Sacrifice a platoon of guardsmen as planned, but add some hydras (for AA) or a second platoon with some plasma or something.

You could even model the guardsmen as chaos cultists! You could use renegades!

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Chaos/CHAOS_RENEGADES/RENEGADE-MILITIA-ICONS-AND-ASSAULT-WEAPONS.html

For the HQ, you could have a primaris psyker and use one of these models..

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Chaos/CHAOS_RENEGADES/RENEGADE_ROGUE_PSYKERS.html

The more I think about it, the more I want to steal your idea.

What about using conscript's with Commander Chenkov's "Send in the Next Wave"? Would that work, too?

The problem with Chenkov is he is not an Ally of Desperation, so AoE effects do not work on him like they do with the Orks. Really any unit with some dirt cheap troops would work.

I might make a slight change and add in some Beasts of Nurgle - which are really good with the tally being up there - and use some Nurgle Princes with Wings (no other abilities really needed - maybe an extra Aura of Decay).

Not just that, but gretchins are T2, meaning they succumb to Aura of Decay much easier.

And if you really want, add a dakkajet or something like that or have the big mek man a quad-gun and the gretchins behind the Aegis defense line for some 3+ G-t-G cover.

Okay, so...now for the obvious question. How do you deal with Manticores?

If you combined it with fate weaver and just chill in his bubble you could deal with them with your re-roll inv deamons all have invs right?

Fateweaver allows you to re-roll all saves (armor, cover, invuln), not just invuln.

This topic has made my day. Allies can be a lot funner when closely examined

1st I would like to say I love this concept but I do not think it is supported by the rules. Aura of decay is a ranged attack so doesn't it need an enemy in range for you to activate it? Allies do not count as enemies for shooting (but they do take damage if they are hit) so I do not see tnis working unless you're within 6" of an opponets modle.

Xanowrath wrote:1st I would like to say I love this concept but I do not think it is supported by the rules. Aura of decay is a ranged attack so doesn't it need an enemy in range for you to activate it? Allies do not count as enemies for shooting (but they do take damage if they are hit) so I do not see tnis working unless you're within 6" of an opponets modle.

Allies of Convenience and Desperate Allies actually count as enemy units. The only thing you can't do to them is assault them, shoot at them and use psychic powers that affect them directly. However, if you use area affect powers, then those powers can affect your allies just as they can affect your enemies. Aura is a ranged attack that affects an area. Thus it can affect your own "allies".

Does Aura of decay as been FAQed regarding the "been in CC both EPIDEMIUS and the TARGET"?

I hope so otherwise the whole setup wouldn't work as you'll can't assault allies.

Not to mention that you'll can't assault at all after deep striking.

Thanks for the replies guys! =)

The Lootas are a good suggestion, I'd probably pick up a Battlewagon for them to cruise around in and shoot Flyers.

Guardsmen wouldn't work as well as the Grots IMO, as Aura wounds them on 5+ and they get their 5+ save as well. Grots I wound on 4's and kill immediately.

I considered Fateweaver, but IMO just taking another 22 Plaguebearers was more efficient. Especially as I'd have to play the army pretty clumped up to get the most out of Weavers bubble.

Its possible that RAW, the PB's always get their FnP, as they are Eternal warriors and ignore ID. Could be wrong though, don't have my rulebook with me to check the exact wording.

Aura is a shooting attack that may be used in CC, which hits EVERY enemy model within 6". You don't have to specify a target for it AFAIK, so RAW it should hit the Grots.

Jabbdo wrote:I considered Fateweaver, but IMO just taking another 22 Plaguebearers was more efficient. Especially as I'd have to play the army pretty clumped up to get the most out of Weavers bubble.

It's a huge investment, no doubth but I would still give it a try. Once opened this 3d I immediately tryed to couple both of the HQ with also a solid CSM detachment of plague marines and Nurgle Terminators. Wow.

However:

Jabbdo wrote:Aura is a shooting attack that may be used in CC, which hits EVERY enemy model within 6". You don't have to specify a target for it AFAIK, so RAW it should hit the Grots.

Well.. no, not properly.

Page 75 Daemons codex, Aura of Decay description, second sentence:
Aura of Decay is a ranged weapon, but the Daemon must be in close combat at the time it use it, as may the target. When used, all enemy models within 6" of the Daemon automatically suffer a Strenght 2 hit at AP-..

If my english comprehension is at least decent it just means that you wouldn't be able to use this power until you'll enter in CC with an enemy.

So you'll can't:
- assault in CC after arrived by deep strike;
- assault an allied detachment, even if considered for all other purpouses as an enemy.

However you'll can:
- popping on a Skyfire platform with the Grots just close and than, the turn after assault a very uncareful adversary with both the Epidemius and the Grots units;
- BE assaulted by a suicidal adversary the turn just after your poppin' in by deep strike and then, accidentally, touch the Grots unit within the 6" round range assuming that they too are going to be assaulted in the same phase.


I honestly don't think this could be considered a viable option.
Unfortunately.

Actually you need a target within 6" to cast aura. You do not have to be in cc. If the grpots are also within 6" they will be affected. I cannot see in my codex where it states that you must be in cc in order to use the aura. It is a shooting attack.

Page 75, Aura of Decay description.

Toban wrote:

Page 75 Daemons codex, Aura of Decay description, second sentence:
Aura of Decay is a ranged weapon, but the Daemon must be in close combat at the time it use it, as may the target. When used, all enemy models within 6" of the Daemon automatically suffer a Strenght 2 hit at AP-..

Its "May be" not "Must be"

or at least my Codex says that

Just played a game with my version of the "Plague Bomb". My list was along the lines of this:

Fateweaver
Epidemius
Big Mek

3x13 Plaguebearers (1 Icon)
9x Nurglings
25x Grots, 2x Runtherds

3x Nurgle Flying DP's - (1 w/Aura, 2 w/Breath)


An unsual list that went up against another unusual list - horde Kroot-orcs! His list?


Shas'el - 2x TL-Missiles, Flamer
Biker Warboss

5x Nob Bikers - 2x PK, Bosspole, Waagh Banner, Painboy

12x Fire Warriors
5x20 Kroots
2x30 Ork Boys - PK Nobs

Bastion w/Quad-guns


Be sure to look out for my battle report, coming soon! (I will link it here).

Exalted, this is just too creative!

REDACTED.

Well done Jabbdo, well done.

This is the most creative list I've seen in a long time.

So I'm assuming you DSed within 6" of a legal target with epi/herald and then moved/ran the grots up close enough for the aura also? It's a bit tricky but I guess it can be done.

Ok, battle report is out.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/464118.page

It'll be finished in a couple of days.

Nice!

I haven't had time to playtest it at all myself yet, as I've been caught up playing lots of practice matches for the ETC, and assembling/painting the fleet of Cron Scythes I'm taking to a tournament next week, but after that I'll try and get some games in with it, and maybe take it to tournament later this year, just for the lol factor

Jabdo, I have to say this is brilliant.

Str10 pie plates are your only problem.

However, a couple of flaws.

You really should be going first and you need to get epi fisrt turn.

This leaves you with less than a 50% success rate.

Could the Grots go in a bastion with some sort of Teleport Homer? I don't have 6th Ed yet, but they could sit until Epi makes his entrence...

However, a couple of flaws.

More than a couple. You have virtually no AA. Your plague bearers can be tank shocked off the table. You still have to get a legitimate target within 6" of the aura and your grots within 6". I would expect a turn two or three tally at the quickest. That leaves your opponent the opportunity to do some early damage. Now some of these problems could be mitigated by shoring up your Ork attachment. Dakkajets, big guns and lootas would be welcome and would take some heat off epi. I think DPs are better than screamers. But the core concept has some merit.

felixcat wrote:

However, a couple of flaws.

More than a couple. You have virtually no AA. Your plague bearers can be tank shocked off the table. You still have to get a legitimate target within 6" of the aura and your grots within 6". I would expect a turn two or three tally at the quickest. That leaves your opponent the opportunity to do some early damage. Now some of these problems could be mitigated by shoring up your Ork attachment. Dakkajets, big guns and lootas would be welcome and would take some heat off epi. I think DPs are better than screamers. But the core concept has some merit.

How would his plague bearers be tank shocked off the table? They're fearless.

I would also back Daemon Princes, with MoN and flight they could be pretty brutal once the tally gets going and fit with the Nurgle theme of the list.

amasokka88 wrote:How would his plague bearers be tank shocked off the table? They're fearless.

I would also back Daemon Princes, with MoN and flight they could be pretty brutal once the tally gets going and fit with the Nurgle theme of the list.

I could be wrong, but I think you can still force fearless units to move via tank shock. You can't make them flee, but if you end the tank shock where the unit is, they have to move out of the way of the tank.

Also, a Daemon Prince won't benefit too much from the tally. I think the only benefit would be wounding in CC on a 2+, and ignoring armor on shooting, which depending on what gift you give them isn't anything new. I'd still put a few in there, just because I love them though.

undertow wrote:

amasokka88 wrote:How would his plague bearers be tank shocked off the table? They're fearless.

I would also back Daemon Princes, with MoN and flight they could be pretty brutal once the tally gets going and fit with the Nurgle theme of the list.

I could be wrong, but I think you can still force fearless units to move via tank shock. You can't make them flee, but if you end the tank shock where the unit is, they have to move out of the way of the tank.

You just have to move them out of the way, which is usually to the side of the tank. To actually tank shock them off the board you would have to have them blocked on both sides of their unit and shock them up the middle, AND it would need to be near the board edge. Somehow, I don't see this happening.

AFAIK, I don't need to have any unit near me to activate Aura of Decay. It just hits any enemy model within 6".

Aura of Decay: "..is a ranged weapon, but the Daemon may be in close combat at the time he uses it, as may the targets. When used, all enemy models within 6" suffer...". Nothing says that I need to have a target for the power, if you read it RAW. Same thing as the Doom Scythe's Death ray, you draw the line, and if there's no one under it then no one is hit. No targeting necessary.




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Also, Epidemius will either come on on turn 1, or on turn 2 with a rerollable 3+. So you're pretty likely to get your tally up quite quickly.

I asked this question in the rules forum because I was of the opinion that perhaps it did not. Here was the only reply:

All shooting ranged attacks require a target.

1) It is a ranged weapon (and therefore a shooting attack) and it does need LOS as per the daemon FAQ.

2) If you try to shoot something further than the listed range of the weapon with a shooting attack: (6th ed BRB) "...at least one weapon must be in range of the target unit. If no weapons are in range, then a different target must be chosen..." then you must select another target. So no you cannot target something further than 6 inches away.

I want this to work, I really do. But I cant find the rule in the book where desperate allies count as enemies for shooting attacks. As far as I can tell, they can't be harmed by his aura of decay.

OK first off cheese but other then that the look on the other guys face should be priceless.

Igenstilch wrote:I want this to work, I really do. But I cant find the rule in the book where desperate allies count as enemies for shooting attacks. As far as I can tell, they can't be harmed by his aura of decay.

Could be from these 2 passages.

"Desperate Allies are treated exactly like Allies of Convenience" plus One Eye Open.

"Units in your army treat Allies of Convenience as enemy units that cannot be charged, shot, targeted with psychic powers or have templates or blast markers placed over them."

I don't think Aura of Decay shoots at all nor does it target so... seems legit. I just hope the same thing can be done with Chaos Cultists.

Lou_Cypher wrote:

Igenstilch wrote:I want this to work, I really do. But I cant find the rule in the book where desperate allies count as enemies for shooting attacks. As far as I can tell, they can't be harmed by his aura of decay.

Could be from these 2 passages.

"Desperate Allies are treated exactly like Allies of Convenience" plus One Eye Open.

"Units in your army treat Allies of Convenience as enemy units that cannot be charged, shot, targeted with psychic powers or have templates or blast markers placed over them."

I don't think Aura of Decay shoots at all nor does it target so... seems legit. I just hope the same thing can be done with Chaos Cultists.

Ah, Cant believe I missed that. This, will be, so awesome =D

felixcat wrote:
I asked this question in the rules forum because I was of the opinion that perhaps it did not. Here was the only reply:

All shooting ranged attacks require a target.

1) It is a ranged weapon (and therefore a shooting attack) and it does need LOS as per the daemon FAQ.

2) If you try to shoot something further than the listed range of the weapon with a shooting attack: (6th ed BRB) "...at least one weapon must be in range of the target unit. If no weapons are in range, then a different target must be chosen..." then you must select another target. So no you cannot target something further than 6 inches away.

Its the same thing as a Doom Scythe. You pick the first point, draw a 3D6" line, then see if there was anyone under it. Its completely possible that the Doom Scythe might miss because of this (ie, the Rhino you were trying to shoot was 16" away, and you rolled 3 ones on your 3D6", so your line doesn't touch it. The shooting attack is still legal, as the wording on the way it shoots is different from ordinary weapons that require BS rolls to hit, or templates that require scatter rolls.

Aura of Decay: "..is a ranged weapon, but the Daemon may be in close combat at the time he uses it, as may the targets. When used, ALL enemy models within 6" suffer...".

The keyword here is ALL. It means I don't have to specify any targets, as I actually CAN'T specify targets, the word ALL clearly prohibits me from doing so. When I activate the power, EVERY enemy model within 6" takes the hit. It's the same thing, as, say, the SW Psychic power Thunderclap:

"A Rune Priest may use Thunderclap as a Psychic shooting attack. Place the large blast marker so it is touching the Rune Priest. Any enemy model touched by the marker takes a s3 ap5 hit."

So, I roll my Psychic test, then place the marker. I can place the marker even if the nearest enemy model is 70" away, nowhere does it specify that there have to be enemy models within reach of the blast marker. Obviously, if there are none, then the power does nothing, but you get the point.

It's not the same as thunderclap at all. The daemon FaQ says a shooting attack requires a target. There are no exceptions. Yes, it will affect the grots within 6" but you still need another target within range.


[

felixcat wrote:It's not the same as thunderclap at all. The daemon FaQ says a shooting attack requires a target. There are no exceptions. Yes, it will affect the grots within 6" but you still need another target within range.


[

Care to quote the FAQ? I just checked it, the only reference to Daemonic shooting attacks I can find is that Aura of Decay requires LOS.

Actually I rechecked the FaQ - seems it may indeed not require a target despite needing LoS. This seems strange but I think until FaQed you might be right. I was confusing LoS with a targeted ability. .

Honestly, aside from the 3 princes, this list doesnt scare me too much. As a guard/marine player who still uses plenty of armor in 6th, you have no anti-armor aside from CC really. You stand the chance of being wiped the turn your first wave comes in unless you hide everything behind cover. This list is neither fluffy nor viable but it is kind of funny so...bravo.

Fantastic idea

BTW you should get FNP against S10. The debate is that Daemons are immune to the effects of Instant Death therefore S10 doesn't inflict Instant Death and you get FNP.

Yeah, I think if you read the Eternal warrior rule RAW they would get FnP against str10, but then again some TO's might rule against you, as its not completely clear. In our gaming group we agree it works though.




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godzilla757 wrote:Honestly, aside from the 3 princes, this list doesnt scare me too much. As a guard/marine player who still uses plenty of armor in 6th, you have no anti-armor aside from CC really. You stand the chance of being wiped the turn your first wave comes in unless you hide everything behind cover. This list is neither fluffy nor viable but it is kind of funny so...bravo.

This is how I would run it at 2k, tweaked from the original list:

Epidemius 110
Herald of Nurgle, Aura of Decay 85

(14) Plaguebearers, Chaos Icon 235
(14) Plaguebearers, Chaos Icon 235
(8) Plaguebearers 120
(8) Plaguebearers 120

(12) Screamers 192
(12) Screamers 192
(12) Screamers 192

Big Mek 35
(15) Lootas 225
(27) Grots, 2x Runtherd 99
Battlewagon 90

Aegis Defence line, Comms relay 70

= 2000

Dropped some PB's, picked up Lootas to be able to deal with 1-2 Flyers, and to have some long ranged presence in case your Screamers can't reach a tank or something. The BW is there because its cheap and keeps your Lootas really safe against some lists.

Waves go:

Epi+Herald+14x PB, 2x12 Screamers
14x PB, 2x 8 PB, 1x12 Screamers

If Epi comes down first turn, you get the Tally boost on t2. If you get the wrong wave, you've got a rerollable 3+ to bring him in on t2, and you get Tally up on t3. If going first, that's either 1-2 rounds of shooting without 3+ FnP up. Second, 2-3 rounds. Either way, I don't really see how you intend to table this list, even if going first, you're still looking at 29 Grots laughing at you from GtG behind 3+ cover, and Lootas sitting in their BW scratching their asses.

TBH, I don't really see many balanced marine lists beating this. IG has a better chance, but I'd still say the Daemons have the upper hand, except against something ridiculous like 9 Vendettas. Feel free to post a list and prove me wrong, though

Seeing as you are bunching 29 grots + 2 herds behind an Aegis line I think any list with a flamer that can reach you before Epidemius is in will be able to kill off the grots before you can get any tally up.

My preference: Dreadknight with Heavy Incinerator and Teleporter

If I see my opponent has something that will reach and kill my Grots, I'll probably just hide them in a corner somewhere, behind the BW to block LOS to them. Also, the Aegis line is actually tall enough to block LOS to Grots completely (I think, don't have the model to check atm). If it is, that would be hilarious

Without being too well-versed in the intricacies of Chaos Demons, I have to say that IMO this to concept is hilarious and exactly what 40k should embody!

Consider this exalted, I'll be watching for some more battle reports to appear and show off the insanity of this list. Personally I'd love to fight it and see if I could stave off the implacable advance of Nurgle.

I dunno; it's cool and all but what happens on a first turn DS libby that hits him with JotWW or Warp Rift....Epi has a low I after all.... I know I'd sacrifice a libby if it meant winning the game.

If Aura needs LoS, wouldnt that mean it needs a target?

What motivated the unusual plaguebearer division? You split them into squads of 14 and 8, but you can take them in squads of anywhere from 5-20.

I can't quite understand why. Could you enlighten me?

This list is pretty awesome. My friend Nick just won the first 6th ed tourney I played in with a similar list.

It does have a couple issues if you don't get the preferred wave or if you go second and your opponent manages to kill your grots.

Well, this combo isn't legal in the way that most people are trying to pull it off, but points for creativity. There's nothing in the description of Aura of Decay that says you get to ignore the normal rules for shooting, so you need to have a valid target. Allies can't be targeted, so you can't activate Aura of Decay to kill your Grots unless there is also an enemy unit within 6" of your caster.

The Grots do make an interesting insurance policy-- you can run them behind your real units and thereby make the enemy very afraid of getting close to you-- but you can't just immediately kill them to power up.

IMO most of you are forgetting the one main idea to this list: Shock and Awe. If someone came up to you and wanted a 2k game and said he was fielding daemons, you would automatically think you had a free win in the bag. That is where his idea is coming from. To completely change your gameplan. Yes, he did not put in any real AA, but even if he lost he changed your ideas and misconceptions about daemons. Brilliant idea for a list I've seen in a long time.

@Fetterkey: Actually, you do not need an enemy in range in order to use the ability, all you require is an enemy within line of sight as this ability is especially unique in that it is a shooting attack that can even be used in close combat, breaking the normal shooting rules.

The FAQ states that only line of sight is required, and it has no effect with regards to what the rest of whomever he is attached to fires at(assuming he is attached to a unit that can fire weapons) and ALL units around him are effected. So if you cna see an enemy, you can activate the ability, it doesnt hit the target but zaps all the grots.

Yep, i've been swayed that way too gameandwatch. I saw shooting attack and LoS and made an assumption that is not RAW. Nowhere is a target mentioned in aura's description. The FaQ just says LoS is needed. The list has been used at a RTT - link is posted in the battle report thread. I'm definitely going to put a revised list together to test now. Fateweaver is a brilliant inclusion IMHO.

gameandwatch wrote:@Fetterkey: Actually, you do not need an enemy in range in order to use the ability, all you require is an enemy within line of sight as this ability is especially unique in that it is a shooting attack that can even be used in close combat, breaking the normal shooting rules. The FAQ states that only line of sight is required, and it has no effect with regards to what the rest of whomever he is attached to fires at(assuming he is attached to a unit that can fire weapons) and ALL units around him are effected. So if you cna see an enemy, you can activate the ability, it doesnt hit the target but zaps all the grots.

Close, but not quite. The FAQ states that line of sight is required for Aura of Decay, not that line of sight is the only requirement. The main rulebook clearly states that "any model that is found to be out of range of all visible enemy targets in the target unit doesn't shoot." Therefore, you have to be within 6" of your target-- which cannot be the Gretchin-- to fire the Aura of Decay. As per the FAQ, the rest of your unit can engage a different target if applicable, and the Aura affects units other than the original target, but you still have to be in range of a valid enemy target to use the ability in the first place.

Very creative idea. Can't wait for that extremely unique battle report jy2.

Report's done. We made some mistakes in our game, but I noted it in our game.

Thanks to Jabbdo for coming up with this idea and also for pointing out one of my mistakes in the game.

Fetterkey wrote:

gameandwatch wrote:@Fetterkey: Actually, you do not need an enemy in range in order to use the ability, all you require is an enemy within line of sight as this ability is especially unique in that it is a shooting attack that can even be used in close combat, breaking the normal shooting rules. The FAQ states that only line of sight is required, and it has no effect with regards to what the rest of whomever he is attached to fires at(assuming he is attached to a unit that can fire weapons) and ALL units around him are effected. So if you cna see an enemy, you can activate the ability, it doesnt hit the target but zaps all the grots.

Close, but not quite. The FAQ states that line of sight is required for Aura of Decay, not that line of sight is the only requirement. The main rulebook clearly states that "any model that is found to be out of range of all visible enemy targets in the target unit doesn't shoot." Therefore, you have to be within 6" of your target-- which cannot be the Gretchin-- to fire the Aura of Decay. As per the FAQ, the rest of your unit can engage a different target if applicable, and the Aura affects units other than the original target, but you still have to be in range of a valid enemy target to use the ability in the first place.

This is incorrect for one reason, what you are specifically quoting in the rulebook refers to the "choosing a target" givin specific weapons characteristics. This ability is treated as a ranged weapon, but it has no profile. Now there is a discrepency in the chaos demons text stating about it being used in close combat, and how "as may be the target." Which contradicts the next statement of it hitting ALL models within 6". This is another key to the use of the weapon. It does not target units, as per normal shooting rules, it targets models and specifically all models within 6". In characteristic it is more akin to a nova psychic power than anything else, except that it is a ranged weapon that can be used in close combat(contradicting the rulebook as far as shooting into and out of close combat.).

Remember one key fact here though with regards to how the game is played. Codex trumps rulebook in all respects, and therefore since the aura of decay entry states " When used, ALL enemy MODELS within 6" suffer a strength 2 with ap-" (not a blast as it does not scatter, not a shot since it does not require rolling to hit, and targets all models in 6" automatically) you do not follow the normal rulebook step by step process when resolving the attack.

Codex trumps rulebook, but 40k is a permissive rules set-- you may only do something if the rules say you can. The only exception to the normal rules granted by the Codex is that the firer and the target may be in close combat. The rules for the Aura of Decay do not explicitly state that you may fire it without picking a target or that you may fire it without being in range of the selected target, so you cannot do so.

All models within 6" are hit when the power is used, but to use the power in the first place, you have to select a valid target within the power's range.

phantommaster wrote:BTW you should get FNP against S10. The debate is that Daemons are immune to the effects of Instant Death therefore S10 doesn't inflict Instant Death and you get FNP.

Jabbdo wrote:Yeah, I think if you read the Eternal warrior rule RAW they would get FnP against str10, but then again some TO's might rule against you, as its not completely clear. In our gaming group we agree it works though.

Let's not bring that discussion into this thread. There is a happy one on YMDC where it belongs, and so far the general consensus leans more towards no FNP save (if going by strict numbers of posts one way or the other).


I wonder how useful a Land Pad would be for this list... You could still get the Comm Relay, and with a raised platform with wall to hide the Grots behind...

Wow... A rare case of easter-egging that leads to wonderful resuls!!! The idea of sacrificing people to Nurgle is wonderful and very daemonish... The main problem with this list is... the new Chaos demons dex that will be out in less than a month... :( ... I hope this will work anyway...

Seems that demons are getting new figures and rules update this White Dwarf. So until the new rules are released, the plague bomb still works. I have yet to see if the update will change Aura of Decay. (still watching the video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EP9QhcKf20k&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lECkhAw3qQw&feature=plcp

Igenstilch wrote:Seems that demons are getting new figures and rules update this White Dwarf. So until the new rules are released, the plague bomb still works. I have yet to see if the update will change Aura of Decay. (still watching the video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EP9QhcKf20k&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lECkhAw3qQw&feature=plcp

My understanding of it is that only new units will be added to the 40k side. On the fantasy side they are rebalancing Flamers but the codex for the most part is staying the same.

What do you guys mean there's no reference to targets in Aura of Decay? It's right in the second line of the rules.

"Aura of Decay is a ranged weapon, but the Daemon may be in close combat at the time it uses it, as may thetargets."

The rule is telling you that you can use the ability while in close combat, as well as targeting an enemy unit in close combat, but it is clearly telling you that you have to have a target. If you didn't, they wouldn't have bothered referencing "targets"; they would have left that word out and just skipped to the next line regarding all enemy units in range.

sweet idea

I'm going to have to go with omerakk and say no, it doesn't work. The power specifies that it has targets, and has been FAQ'd to say that it requires LOS, meaning LOS to the targets, which, under the shooting rules, must be in range of the attack, and which cannot be your allies. That means you need to have a target and the Grots within 6", which leaves me to believe that Epidemus & Nurgle Marines is a better option.

I agree with your logic to the point where you assume that Aura of Decay is a shooting attack. It occurs during the shooting phase, and it requires a target, and that target must be in LoS. But because we have not established that aura of decay is a shooting attack, we cannot assume that the effect fails if the target is not within range.

In absence of such evidence, we do what the codex tells us to do -- that is, we inflict an S2 wound on every enemy model within 6". Which means the grots bite it en masse.

Edit: I rescind my previous position. Well argued.

Igenstilch wrote:Seems that demons are getting new figures and rules update this White Dwarf. So until the new rules are released, the plague bomb still works. I have yet to see if the update will change Aura of Decay. (still watching the video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EP9QhcKf20k&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lECkhAw3qQw&feature=plcp

Nope. No change to AoD.
New rules for flamers, new rules for screamers, a few new chariot units.

The second list with lootas and a BW is much better. The biggest problem the first list had is a strong dependence on grots. If the grots are shot up, then your really out of luck. One IG manticore and that's good game. The BW helps a great deal as you can stick your grots in them if needed.

I can also see you running this list with guard. While they get saves and have a higher toughness, you can still get lots of them. Just blob up 50 of them and then drop a few DPs with AoD and Eppi next to them.

Jabbdo wrote:The problem with Epi in a Chaos army is that you actually have to kill 20 of your opponents models to get the benefits. Against hordes its not that hard, but against marines, 20 guys is usually about half/a third of their whole army. By taking grots you get your tally up as soon as you come on.

Let's see what happens in the new Codex - you could get the best of both world by maybe sacrificing Cultists instead of Grots?

Corollax wrote:I agree with your logic to the point where you assume that Aura of Decay is a shooting attack. It occurs during the shooting phase, and it requires a target, and that target must be in LoS. But because we have not established that aura of decay is a shooting attack, we cannot assume that the effect fails if the target is not within range.

In absence of such evidence, we do what the codex tells us to do -- that is, we inflict an S2 wound on every enemy model within 6". Which means the grots bite it en masse.

Page 75 of the Daemon Codex:

"Aura of Decay is a ranged weapon"

Page 12 of the Rule Book:

"If no units are in range, a new target must be chosen"


Unlike other abilities that happen during the shooting phase, this one is clearly defined as a ranged weapon with reference to a target and line of sight.
Ranged Weapon
Target
Line of Sight
You have to ignore 3 things written in the codex and rulebook for this strategy to work, so I can't say I'm really comfortable with the idea. If I were you, I wouldn't plan on using this tactic for very long. Just look at what happened with Grey Knights and that whole scout-shunt idea last year.

Yeah. The combo doesn't work, guys. Keep in mind that it's still potentially dangerous-- you can run the Grots behind your casters and the enemy has to kill them before your Aura of Decay casters get within 6" of enemy units, at which point they can activate the combo-- but it's not crazy powerful.

Except I'm not allowed to declare targets, even if I wanted to. The power specifically states that it hits all enemy models within 6". It is IMPOSSIBLE to actually specify targets for it. Normal shooting weapons are required to choose a target, then you check range etc. Aura goes around this, as it doesn't have a set range value that you have to measure to check whether you can use it (it just works in a certain range), and it specifies the models that are hit by it, ie EVERY enemy model within 6". With a normal weapon you gotta pick a target unit to shoot at, with Aura that choice is already made for you, it hits all models within 6".

The word "target" that is in the FAQ references that LOS is needed just means that Aura can't hit models that are out of your LOS, like behind a wall.

6" is not a set range? It clearly states that models in combat may also be targeted. By using the word targeted in additional to normal restrictions, it implies that if the target is not in combat, it follows regular targeting rules as stated in the rule book.

IF it were just an auto area of effect, you would not need line of sight as it would just go off. But the FAQ clearly states that "Yes" you need Line of Sight.

It is a clever list and congrats on making it. But it is illegal.

Pick your cake:
So my murderous hurricane still effects the target even though I'm well out of 18" right? I mean, if you dont need to target me like normal rules, why do I have to limit myself to range restrictions too?

So GK grenades effect every single enemy unit in your army when you assault me right? Because it just says it effects enemy units and last I checked...all your models are or are part of a unit. Why do I have to just limit it to the unit that assaults me? It doesn't say this....

I mean if you don't need to target me, can be out of range, and still have your ranged attack go off...why do I have to limit myself?

Set range as in "OK, I'm withing range, so now I can fire etc.." Its range is just "if you are in 6", you get hit".

The thing that seems to be throwing people off is the use of the word "target" in the rules wording. In context, its clearly meant to mean "model that is within 6" and will be hit by Aura", not "model that I am tarageting" as the wording specifically states that you CANNOT pick specific targets. The word "target" in the wording is just used in the LOS and CC referencing parts, where it is used to explain whether models in CC or behind a wall would be hit.

you are clearly overlooking that Aura of Decay is a ranged weapon. NOT an area of effect weapon.

There are two types of main attacks; close combat attacks and shooting(ranged) attacks.

This is not close combat so we've narrowed it down to a shooting attack.

Now following shooting rules:
Check line of sight to opponent - yes we need this
Check range to opponent - yes we need this
Roll to hit - yes, but we AUTOMATICALLY hit
Roll to wound - yes if we make it this far

Aura of Decay stops at checkpoint #2 because it does not have range to the opponent.


Now If I'm within 6" and so are your grots, hey by all means you can kill them too. But if I'm not in the 6", then you cannot make the attack.

Blast weapons hit ALL models under the template. It can hit multiple squads, doesn't mean I needed to target both. I still need to be able to target at lease one though. I can't just shoot it into empty space. Neither can aura of decay just cast into empty space. Same concept.

Except there are exceptions to ordinary shooting rules, such as the Doom Scythes Death ray. Aura falls into it too, as it affects EVERY ENEMY MODEL WITHIN 6". To have to measure range to a target, you first have to DECLARE a target, which is IMPOSSIBLE with Aura, as it hits EVERY ENEMY MODEL WITHIN 6". It is not an ordinary shooting attack, as it has no set range value in its weapon profile (it doesn't even have a profile) it doesn't fire a specific amount of shots, and your BS value has no effect on Aura, as it inflicts hits straight away.

Hitting every model within 6" has no bearing on a target. Jaws only needs to draw a line. I still need to target a squad though before I do it and then I auto hit everything in that 24" as well. This is literally identical but instead of a 24" line that auto hits, you have a 6" radius that auto hits. Both of us still need to target.

And again...you HAVE A SET RANGE VALUE of 6"....You cannot go beyond this can you? Hence it is a SET VALUE.

I am using your words to prove a point.

If you want to compare this to a Doom Scythe - tell me where it SPECIFICALLY states that you DO NOT need to pick a target. Doom Scythe clearly says "any point on the battlefield." Therefore it has an exception. Where does it say this for aura of decay?

I'll wait....

I'm saying that I don't have to specify a target, as I can't specify a target. Therefore I have no unit to measure range to to see if the power works, as I'm not targeting anyone.

feth it, this is going nowhere. Until FAQ'd, I'll just keep playing it so it works on the Grots, because otherwise the list is crap

Nowhere does it say you do not have to specify a target.

If you do not then you are clearly going beyond the rules laid out in the BRB.

Choosing to disobey the law does not make it legal. But as they say, everything is legal until you get caught. Good luck with it.

and with that I take a bow....

ArbitorIan wrote:

Jabbdo wrote:The problem with Epi in a Chaos army is that you actually have to kill 20 of your opponents models to get the benefits. Against hordes its not that hard, but against marines, 20 guys is usually about half/a third of their whole army. By taking grots you get your tally up as soon as you come on.

Let's see what happens in the new Codex - you could get the best of both world by maybe sacrificing Cultists instead of Grots?

1) There is no new Daemon Codex, it's just an update to Screamers, Flamers, and rules for the chariots and Fantasy Soulgrinder

2) Cultists will be in Codex: CSM, which is not part of this discussion.

Jabbdo wrote:I'm saying that I don't have to specify a target, as I can't specify a target. Therefore I have no unit to measure range to to see if the power works, as I'm not targeting anyone.

Actually, nothing about Aura of Decay says you can't specify a target. Therefore, you have to specify a target just as any other attack would-- it's just not hugely relevant, as other units within 6" are also hit. The key part here is that if your specified target is out of range, you can't use the attack, as per the basic shooting rules.

I must be missing something because the exact wording of Aura of Decay is:

Aura of Decay is a ranged weapon, but the Daemon may in close combat at the time it uses it, as may the targets. When used, all enemy models within 6" of the Daemon automatically suffer a Strength 2 hit with Ap- (roll to wound as normal)

It is very clear that
1) You have to use it like a ranged weapon
2) Ranged weapon requires: LOS, target in range, target not in CC
3) Remove "Target not in CC" restriction

Until Aura of Decay says that it removes "Target in range" restriction, it cannot be used without having a target within range.

Jabbdo wrote:feth it, this is going nowhere. Until FAQ'd, I'll just keep playing it so it works on the Grots, because otherwise the list is crap

Edit: Stepping out of this thread

Differing rules interpretation != cheating. But hey, I guess you're TFG who gets all huffy about this stuff.

Until Aura of Decay says that it removes "Target in range" restriction, it cannot be used without having a target within range.

Exactly. That's the part he keeps missing when he uses the Death Ray comparison; the Death Ray specifically replaces the target in range rule with a different one, while Aura and the accompanying FAQ all point to the same shooting restriction

Stay on-topic, folks. If you're reaching for pejorative labels instead of reasoned argument, you're going to get in trouble.

Sounds like a hell of alot of fun

This is disappointing. I really liked this list and felt that it had was a well-balanced representation of what two decade old codices could do together. I don't really want to admit the combo doesn't work, but the arguments here have managed to convince me.

Ironically, my boyfriend feels the opposite way. Go figure!

leohart wrote:I must be missing something because the exact wording of Aura of Decay is:

Aura of Decay is a ranged weapon, but the Daemon may in close combat at the time it uses it, as may the targets. When used, all enemy models within 6" of the Daemon automatically suffer a Strength 2 hit with Ap- (roll to wound as normal)

It is very clear that
1) You have to use it like a ranged weapon
2) Ranged weapon requires: LOS, target in range, target not in CC
3) Remove "Target not in CC" restriction

Until Aura of Decay says that it removes "Target in range" restriction, it cannot be used without having a target within range.

I think the combo works. Aura of Decay doesn't have a shooting profile or a range listed. It hits everything within 6", but that doesn't mean that its range is 6". Being a ranged weapon still tells you what phase to use the ability, that it counts as a shooting attack for that model (as far as "actions" are concerned), and that if you run you can't do it. It doesn't explicitly remove the Target in Range restriction because it has to be de facto removed since there is no range listed.

Emperor awfulness wrote:

leohart wrote:I must be missing something because the exact wording of Aura of Decay is:

Aura of Decay is a ranged weapon, but the Daemon may in close combat at the time it uses it, as may the targets. When used, all enemy models within 6" of the Daemon automatically suffer a Strength 2 hit with Ap- (roll to wound as normal)

It is very clear that
1) You have to use it like a ranged weapon
2) Ranged weapon requires: LOS, target in range, target not in CC
3) Remove "Target not in CC" restriction

Until Aura of Decay says that it removes "Target in range" restriction, it cannot be used without having a target within range.

I think the combo works. Aura of Decay doesn't have a shooting profile or a range listed. It hits everything within 6", but that doesn't mean that its range is 6". Being a ranged weapon still tells you what phase to use the ability, that it counts as a shooting attack for that model (as far as "actions" are concerned), and that if you run you can't do it. It doesn't explicitly remove the Target in Range restriction because it has to be de facto removed since there is no range listed.

I believe that 6" is the range in question here. That said, if the weapon doesn't have a range, then RAW it can't be fired, because the target will never be in range and thus you aren't allowed to use the weapon.

To further compound the problem, Aura of Decay clearly isn't a shooting weapon:

A shooting weapon always has one of the following types:
Assault, Heavy, Ordnance, Pistol, Rapid Fire or Salvo. These
rules (found on the next two pages) measure a weapon's
ponability and affect the way they can be fired, depending
whether or not the model carrying them moved that rurn. A
shooting weapon can only be used to make Shooting attacks.

People in my area are arguing Aura Of Decay doesn't do anything at all at the moment

TzeentchNet wrote:Differing rules interpretation != cheating. But hey, I guess you're TFG who gets all huffy about this stuff.

Actually, different rules interpretation in cases where the rules are not 100% clear = differing opinions on how the rules interact.

The rule is not 100% clear, and I can see both sides of the argument, but I choose to believe that it would work, as that is how I interpret the wording. I've written out why I think it works multiple times, and you guys have written out your view. Think this is really gonna go anywhere? If you think it doesn't work, that's fine, no problem, but don't keep preaching your version on how it should be interpreted on the thread. Let the people who want to talk about the list do so.

@ TzeentchNet

So, because I see a rule working a different way than you do, you insult me in a condescending manner? Cool bro, mature stuff

Meh, if someone brought this out against me I'd allow it, just for the potential fluff value.

I would too. But then, I also play with a house rule where wyches/bloodbrides/succubi get their dodge save against overwatch, Ghost Arks are 3 HP, and AV14-13-11 Leman Russ are HP4, and Screamers can assault flyers.

Generally speaking, 6e is an incredibly solid edition. They did a sketchy job of adapting the old rulebooks, though.

Jabbdo wrote:

TzeentchNet wrote:Differing rules interpretation != cheating. But hey, I guess you're TFG who gets all huffy about this stuff.

Actually, different rules interpretation in cases where the rules are not 100% clear = differing opinions on how the rules interact.

The rule is not 100% clear, and I can see both sides of the argument, but I choose to believe that it would work, as that is how I interpret the wording. I've written out why I think it works multiple times, and you guys have written out your view. Think this is really gonna go anywhere? If you think it doesn't work, that's fine, no problem, but don't keep preaching your version on how it should be interpreted on the thread. Let the people who want to talk about the list do so.

@ TzeentchNet

So, because I see a rule working a different way than you do, you insult me in a condescending manner? Cool bro, mature stuff

Actually, he is doing the opposite. != means "not equal to" it was the poster before him that was making the assumption that you were a cheater.

tedurur wrote:

Jabbdo wrote:

TzeentchNet wrote:Differing rules interpretation != cheating. But hey, I guess you're TFG who gets all huffy about this stuff.

Actually, different rules interpretation in cases where the rules are not 100% clear = differing opinions on how the rules interact.

The rule is not 100% clear, and I can see both sides of the argument, but I choose to believe that it would work, as that is how I interpret the wording. I've written out why I think it works multiple times, and you guys have written out your view. Think this is really gonna go anywhere? If you think it doesn't work, that's fine, no problem, but don't keep preaching your version on how it should be interpreted on the thread. Let the people who want to talk about the list do so.

@ TzeentchNet

So, because I see a rule working a different way than you do, you insult me in a condescending manner? Cool bro, mature stuff

Actually, he is doing the opposite. != means "not equal to" it was the poster before him that was making the assumption that you were a cheater.

Ah, my bad, missed the !. But yeah, until this gets a FAQ (and it probably never will) there's no clear-cut answer.

Also in the chaos daemon codex it says "automatically suffer" the hits. The automatic part does suggest that it effects anyone in 6" without the stuff leading up to that hence the "automatic"

As well as this the FAQ also implies that aura of decay skips the targeting stage by the bit which says:

Q: Does Aura Of Decay limit what the rest of the unit can shoot and assault that turn
A: No

However if it was targeting the enemy unit then the unit would only be able to assault that enemy.

Trolltastic... I am not a big fan of Daemons (one way or another) but I have to give you 10/10 for creativity, 10/10 for style, 10/10 for ridiculousness. Papa Nurgle likes them Grots!

I would LOVE to see this army on the other side of the table... much more amusing (although just as deadly) than a TH/SS Termie spam list.

Thanks for the replies guys

I redesigned the list a bit to take advantage of the awesome new screamer rules. The Aegis line is also missing from this list, as I'm not sure how many tournaments in Finland will allow fortifications and we're playtesting without them in case they get banned so we aren't reliant on them. The loss of the Comm relay hurts, but what can you do.

Epidemius 110
Fateweaver 333

(12) Plaguebearers, Icon 205
(5) Plaguebearers 75
(5) Plaguebearers 75
(5) Plaguebearers 75
(9) Nurglings 117
(9) Nurglings 117

(8) Screamers 200
(8) Screamers 200
(8) Screamers 200

Big mek 35
(29) Grots, 2x runtherd 107

= 1849

So waves go:

1. Epi+12PB, Weaver, 3x screamer
2. 3x 5PB, 2x Nurglings

If you get the right wave, drop Weaver right up close to your opponent and flatout the Screamers (after dropping into safe positions) into his bubble and right up in your opponents face. Your opponent then has to deal with them, leaving you free to set up the Plague bomb and start moving your Nurgle stuff into position to finish him once the Screamers die (if they die, they're pretty fething scary) If he neglects to deal with the Screamers and shoots your Nurgle crap, then they'll rape his whole army. If he shoots them (which he should) then the Nurgle stuff is free to set up Tally and move up. Either way, its win-win.

Wrong wave, drop the Nurglings close to put a bit of pressure on (they don't get any survivability bonus from Tally so might as well) and hide the small PB squads.

You're helpless against Flyers, true, but with 36" movement on the Screamers (move+turbo) and premeasuring you should be able to limit the amount of targets they can actually fire on, by blocking their minimum 18" moves and forcing them to either fly over or fire on less valuable targets. On the other hand, nothing in the army really even fears Vendettas, only really Night scythes are sort of scary, and even then you still win objective games with a bit of smart maneuvering.

Comments, criticisms?

PS. I came across this on BOLS a couple of weeks ago, make me laugh: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/07/nurgle-daemon-and-allied-orks.html

I mean come on, if you're gonna steal the list at least change the text a bit, instead of just cntrl+C the whole thing word for word

You need a chaos lord in there so you can try and get the Invisiblity physic talent.

You can give your Screamers a 3++ cover save from shooting.
And it makes the models they are in CC with have WS1 base.

Oh and then you should look at Flamers... they are 9-10 points cheaper per model... and they have AP2 flamers that glance on a 4+, you should be able to glance down a LR in 1 round of shooting. Oh.. and who in there right mind would charge them, so they can overwatch 6-,8 or 9 d3 AP2 flamers at you..... it's slowed.

And if you want to keep all of that alive... put Fateweaver in the middle so you can re-roll all of your saves...

 Jabbdo wrote:
PS. I came across this on BOLS a couple of weeks ago, make me laugh: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/07/nurgle-daemon-and-allied-orks.html

I mean come on, if you're gonna steal the list at least change the text a bit, instead of just cntrl+C the whole thing word for word

Seeing as the OP here was posted on the 17th July and the BoLS post on the 26th I'd say that it was BoLS that did the copying.

Since Jabbdo is the OP of this thread. What he meant was that BOLS indeed copied his stuff.

Good point, my bad. Man I'm failing hard today .

I originally saw this list on BoLs and then discovered this thread later. I think its at once lulzy, cheesy, and fluffy. It needs 3x Flying Nurgle Daemon Princes for AA imo though.

 Amaya wrote:
I originally saw this list on BoLs and then discovered this thread later. I think its at once lulzy, cheesy, and fluffy. It needs 3x Flying Nurgle Daemon Princes for AA imo though.

Thanks

IDK about the Princes, they're not very point efficient AA (str6 vector strikes aren't that scary, especially when you pay ~200pts per Prince). In my experience Daemons just can't deal with Flyers at all without Allies, and even with Allies they really struggle at it.

Usually I'd only take a single Vendetta if allying with IG as its really point efficient at downing other Flyers, otherwise I just don't bother and try to kill everything my opponent has on the ground while trying to outmaneuver the Flyers.