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Post by: Jihadin
Mitt Romney called on Harry Reid Tuesday to reveal the source for his claim that the Republican presidential candidate has not paid taxes for 10 years, stepping up pressure as two major fact-check sites ruled Reid had no basis for the "incendiary" allegation.
Romney, in an interview with Fox News, said he doesn't believe Reid has a credible source but urged the Senate Democratic leader to reveal who it is.
"I don't really believe that he's got any kind of a credible source," Romney said. "I don't know who gave him this line of reasoning, whether it came from the White House or the DNC or a staffer, but he ought to say where it came from, and then we can find out whether that person has any credibility. I know they don't."
He said Reid also has "lost a lot of credibility."
Romney's latest comments came as two major fact-check sites knocked down Reid's comments, which the senator amplified by repeating them last week on the Senate floor. Reid has said his source is an investor with Romney's former venture capital company Bain.
But PolitiFact wrote that it is "far-fetched" to believe Romney paid no taxes for 10 years. Further, the article stated the obvious -- "Reid has produced no evidence to back up his claim other than attribution to a shadowy anonymous source."
PolitiFact concluded: "Reid has made an extreme claim with nothing solid to back it up." They gave the accusation a "Pants on Fire!" rating.
The Washington Post's fact-check column, too, gave Reid's remark the equivalent of a "Pants on Fire!" score. The Post gave it "four Pinocchios," which is the newspaper's score for a claim they knock down.
"Without seeing Romney's taxes, we cannot definitively prove Reid incorrect. But tax experts say his claim is highly improbable. Reid also has made no effort to explain why his unnamed source would be credible. So, in the absence of more information, it appears he has no basis to make his incendiary claim," the Post wrote.
The White House, meanwhile, has distanced itself from Reid's remark. Press Secretary Jay Carney said Monday the Senate Democratic leader "speaks for himself."
House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi, though, has defended Reid. She told The Huffington Post that Reid made a "true" statement.
"Somebody told him. It is a fact," she said.
Like other Democratic officials, Pelosi said Romney can either prove or disprove the claim by releasing more tax returns.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/07/romney-calls-on-reid-to-reveal-source-as-fact-check-sites-challenge-tax-claim/#ixzz22srESWrE
House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi, though, has defended Reid. She told The Huffington Post that Reid made a "true" statement.
"Somebody told him. It is a fact," she said.
I'm sorry. This made me laugh with coffee in my mouth
Case of beer says Romney has ten years tax returns in a folder waiting to see how many Democrats can get on the wagon before he flames them
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Post by: Frazzled
His tax returns will show lots of offshore cash and minimal tax actually paid. The follow on issues will be demands for his account information and some nits and nats.
How this relates TO THE ACTUAL ISSUES FACING THE NATION we'll never know.
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Post by: hotsauceman1
Frazzled, When have issues ever had a place in politics? ITs ALL chracter Traits.
But why should romney expect us to pay taxes when he doesnt?
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Post by: Jihadin
But why should romney expect us to pay taxes when we assumed he doesnt?
Fixed
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Post by: whembly
Also, the only thing he needs to do is release the normal financial disclosures that public officials are required to do when running for office, which he did. (to show that there's no potential conflict of interests)
He also released his last 2 years of his tax returns, which is not required, but customary from prior presidential elections.
This is nothing more than a deflection and class warfare...
Caveat: If he does release his last 10 years of tax record... I hope it show that he maximized his tax savings. I want a president that is smart/savvy enough to take advantage of legal tax strategies.
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Post by: hotsauceman1
Well all he has to do is show us his tax returns(And al the money he has hidden away offshores) and we can solve this.
If he did nothing wrong he should just bring them out.
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Post by: d-usa
Wait, FoxNews cares about having sources now?
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Post by: SilverMK2
Frazzled wrote:His tax returns will show lots of offshore cash and minimal tax actually paid. The follow on issues will be demands for his account information and some nits and nats.
How this relates TO THE ACTUAL ISSUES FACING THE NATION we'll never know.
Well, given taxation is vital to the nation I would assume anyone dodging out of paying large amounts of tax using legal loopholes (ie pretty much everyone who earns enough to hire an accountant) who is "exposed" so it can be seen exactly how much they are getting out of paying, especially if it is a lot, and they are very high profile, may lead to some tax reform to help ensure that everyone pays what they "should", rather than as little as they can get away with by paying someone to engage in what amounts to legal fraud...
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Post by: Jihadin
Well all he has to do is show us his tax returns(And al the money we assumed he has hidden away offshores) and we can solve this.
If he did nothing wrong he should just bring them out.
Fixed again 
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Post by: Lynata
Politicians should call out each other for stating BS more often. I'm surprised the Democrats haven't done so more often, given the opportunities.
In fact, I think there should be a law covering false claims, requiring the violating party to pay a fee and (more importantly) launch a campaign of similar coverage to publicly withdraw them.
With all the dirt and money involved in this election, it kinda makes you wonder how the next one will look like. That really oughta change.
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Post by: d-usa
Frazzled wrote:His tax returns will show lots of offshore cash and minimal tax actually paid. The follow on issues will be demands for his account information and some nits and nats.
How this relates TO THE ACTUAL ISSUES FACING THE NATION we'll never know.
Obama has a birth certificate, high school and college transcripts, and thesis sitting in a box, just waiting to let it all out to make the republicans look foolish.
How this relates TO THE ACTUAL ISSUES FACING THE NATION we'll never know.
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Post by: whembly
hotsauceman1 wrote:Frazzled, When have issues ever had a place in politics? ITs ALL chracter Traits.
But why should romney expect us to pay taxes when he doesnt?
Are you implying that he's a criminal?
What we have is a (so far) baseless accusation. And now, Romney is being pressured to prove is innocence.
Doesn't this seem wrong to you?
It's asinine... it's the same thing when some righty folks are pushing the "Reid is a pederast, it's true 'cuz I saw it on the internet... why doesn't he deny this?" meme.
This is gutter politics at its worst... or McCarythism...
Again, it serves as a distraction. We're talking about this instead of Obama's record. Automatically Appended Next Post: d-usa wrote:Frazzled wrote:His tax returns will show lots of offshore cash and minimal tax actually paid. The follow on issues will be demands for his account information and some nits and nats.
How this relates TO THE ACTUAL ISSUES FACING THE NATION we'll never know.
Obama has a birth certificate, high school and college transcripts, and thesis sitting in a box, just waiting to let it all out to make the republicans look foolish.
How this relates TO THE ACTUAL ISSUES FACING THE NATION we'll never know.
So... is this payback?
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Post by: d-usa
No, it's ironic that all the people I know that are bitching about this are the same people that still post on Facebook that Obama is not a citizen and was only admitted to college because hisar affirmative action and that he had horrible grades and his thesis was about destroying America.
It's not payback, it's just ironic that after all that crap the same people suddenly care about proof and sources for baseless allegations.
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Post by: Crablezworth
The guy who claims his business skills will save the economy if he's elected president (Romney) basically looks like he's a massive part of the problem.
He can gak all over Harry Reid all he wants and in all honesty he probably should because Harry Reid is a dick but at the end of the day Reid wins. If he was smart he would have ignored it unless he actually planned on releasing his taxes and making Reid look like a fool. He's only amplifying the “what if” of all this every time he makes some macho rant telling Reid to put up or shut up.
You had plenty of media perceived as “left leaning” or “liberal” come out against Reid on this(Anderson Cooper, Jon Stewart), but the problem is they’re still amplifying the whole thing by just talking about it. It was more a chance for them to look bipartisan while still kind of sticking it to Romney.
If this was a court case and Reid was a witness and Romney was the defendant, the smart defence lawyer is not going to have any questions for Reid if he can’t discredit him reliably and he’s simply going to say “no further questions” to get his ass off the stand as quick as possible so the Jury will hopefully make as little of the testimony as possible.
Let's be honest here, Romney attended a fund raiser by one of the biggest "birthers" out there (Trump). If his surrogates get to believe and state absolutely crazy gak about Obama, the well has been poisoned for a while.
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Post by: CT GAMER
"I don't really believe that he's got any kind of a credible source," Romney said. "I don't know who gave him this line of reasoning, whether it came from the White House or the DNC or a staffer, but he ought to say where it came from, and then we can find out whether that person has any credibility.
The irony of uttering this while on Fox News is mind-blowing...
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Post by: Lynata
whembly wrote:So... is this payback?
The hostile and corrupted climate in this election seems to whip everyone into a frenzy.
I recall Obama being opposed to Super PACs as well, as he considered them undemocratical and giving the lobbies/industry too much influence.
Now he's using them himself to keep up with the Republican campaign. 
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Post by: gorgon
Frazzled wrote:His tax returns will show lots of offshore cash and minimal tax actually paid. The follow on issues will be demands for his account information and some nits and nats.
How this relates TO THE ACTUAL ISSUES FACING THE NATION we'll never know.
I'll bite, at least in terms of the overall Bain issue.
1. Unemployment is a real issue.
2. Romney says he'll create jobs if elected.
3. Records may show he made untold millions at Bain (while paying little in taxes) while laying off thousands of American workers.
Does #3 mean he can't do #2, or that he'll do more of #3 if elected? Of course not. Is this a completely legit line of attack against a campaign focusing on economic issues and unemployment? Yes, it is, and the GOP would do the exact same thing if the situation was reversed.
It points to a fundamental problem with the candidate's record and message. They don't actually quite line up. The Dems have been beating the heck outta the Bain issue because they see it as a way to rob Romney of his perceived greatest strength. This is right outta the Rove playbook.
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Post by: Ahtman
Lynata wrote:I recall Obama being opposed to Super PACs as well, as he considered them undemocratical and giving the lobbies/industry too much influence.
Now he's using them himself to keep up with the Republican campaign.
But as part of that discussion he also said that to not use them would mean losing every single time; only a fool goes into a fight with both arms tied behind their back. They are a reality of politics and all the rhetoric in the world doesn't remove them from the equation. At least this instance the politician is up front about it. There is a history of politicians having to make compromises going back to, well, the stone age. Nit picking this one is just being blinded by paritsan glasses. Besides, neither Romney nor Obama use them, as they are separate entities from the campaigns, and it would be illegal for either of them to coordinate with them. The voters created this 'game', it is the politicians that have to work within it. We are just as at fault as they are for making them absolutely necessary to run a national campaign.
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Post by: Frazzled
hotsauceman1 wrote:Well all he has to do is show us his tax returns(And al the money he has hidden away offshores) and we can solve this.
If he did nothing wrong he should just bring them out.
I heard you stopped beating your wife. All you have to do is prove you didn't. Automatically Appended Next Post: SilverMK2 wrote:Frazzled wrote:His tax returns will show lots of offshore cash and minimal tax actually paid. The follow on issues will be demands for his account information and some nits and nats.
How this relates TO THE ACTUAL ISSUES FACING THE NATION we'll never know.
Well, given taxation is vital to the nation I would assume anyone dodging out of paying large amounts of tax using legal loopholes (ie pretty much everyone who earns enough to hire an accountant) who is "exposed" so it can be seen exactly how much they are getting out of paying, especially if it is a lot, and they are very high profile, may lead to some tax reform to help ensure that everyone pays what they "should", rather than as little as they can get away with by paying someone to engage in what amounts to legal fraud...
So you didn't vote for John Kerry I take it, or any member of Congress. Else I might have to question the veracity of your statement. Automatically Appended Next Post: d-usa wrote:Frazzled wrote:His tax returns will show lots of offshore cash and minimal tax actually paid. The follow on issues will be demands for his account information and some nits and nats.
How this relates TO THE ACTUAL ISSUES FACING THE NATION we'll never know.
Obama has a birth certificate, high school and college transcripts, and thesis sitting in a box, just waiting to let it all out to make the republicans look foolish.
How this relates TO THE ACTUAL ISSUES FACING THE NATION we'll never know.
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Post by: Jihadin
heard you stopped beating your wife. All you have to do is prove you didn't.
All they have to do is say on the senate floor to avoid reprecussion like Reid did
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Post by: Frazzled
d-usa wrote:No, it's ironic that all the people I know that are bitching about this are the same people that still post on Facebook that Obama is not a citizen and was only admitted to college because hisar affirmative action and that he had horrible grades and his thesis was about destroying America.
It's not payback, it's just ironic that after all that crap the same people suddenly care about proof and sources for baseless allegations.
I don't and I'm bitching about the tax record nonsense. Reid did this on the Senate floor because he couldn't be prosecuted when giving a speech on the Senate floor.
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Post by: hotsauceman1
Frazzled wrote:hotsauceman1 wrote:Well all he has to do is show us his tax returns(And al the money he has hidden away offshores) and we can solve this.
If he did nothing wrong he should just bring them out.
I heard you stopped beating your wife. All you have to do is prove you didn't.
I have a question, where is this imaginary wife you think i have?
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Post by: SilverMK2
Frazzled wrote:So you didn't vote for John Kerry I take it, or any member of Congress. Else I might have to question the veracity of your statement.
*looks at his flag*
Nope, I didn't vote for any of them. And you call yourselves a democracy! 
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Post by: Frazzled
Crablezworth wrote:The guy who claims his business skills will save the economy if he's elected president (Romney) basically looks like he's a massive part of the problem.
He can gak all over Harry Reid all he wants and in all honesty he probably should because Harry Reid is a dick but at the end of the day Reid wins. If he was smart he would have ignored it unless he actually planned on releasing his taxes and making Reid look like a fool. He's only amplifying the “what if” of all this every time he makes some macho rant telling Reid to put up or shut up.
You had plenty of media perceived as “left leaning” or “liberal” come out against Reid on this(Anderson Cooper, Jon Stewart), but the problem is they’re still amplifying the whole thing by just talking about it. It was more a chance for them to look bipartisan while still kind of sticking it to Romney.
If this was a court case and Reid was a witness and Romney was the defendant, the smart defence lawyer is not going to have any questions for Reid if he can’t discredit him reliably and he’s simply going to say “no further questions” to get his ass off the stand as quick as possible so the Jury will hopefully make as little of the testimony as possible.
Let's be honest here, Romney attended a fund raiser by one of the biggest "birthers" out there (Trump). If his surrogates get to believe and state absolutely crazy gak about Obama, the well has been poisoned for a while.
The economy has deep deep structural problems. Thats the problem. His taxes have nmothing to do with it. indeed, if one is cutting out loopholes you'd go to him. After all, if you want to stop a thief getting into your house , hire a thief to show you its weaknesses. .
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Post by: Jihadin
have a question, where is this imaginary wife you think i have?
Not you Sauce lol he refering to Reid
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Post by: Frazzled
hotsauceman1 wrote:Frazzled wrote:hotsauceman1 wrote:Well all he has to do is show us his tax returns(And al the money he has hidden away offshores) and we can solve this.
If he did nothing wrong he should just bring them out.
I heard you stopped beating your wife. All you have to do is prove you didn't.
I have a question, where is this imaginary wife you think i have?
I don't know, what did you do with her now?  I used to love her, but I had to kill her...
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Post by: Jihadin
Wait....Hotsauce misplaced a wife?
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Post by: Ahtman
whembly wrote:Also, the only thing he needs to do is release the normal financial disclosures that public officials are required to do when running for office, which he did. (to show that there's no potential conflict of interests)
He also released his last 2 years of his tax returns, which is not required, but customary from prior presidential elections.
His father released 12 years of taxes and the Bushes released 10 years, just as two examples. He isn't following the customary by any stretch.
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Post by: Grakmar
1) I'm sure Reid told the truth. Someone told him that Romney hadn't paid taxes. That doesn't mean that person is credible, or had any proof themselves.
2) I'm sure Romney used all sorts of tax loopholes to keep his tax obligation to a minimum. Pretty much everyone assumes that, and it's not really news.
3) Romney should refute this claim, because it's painfully obvious to show he paid some tax in the past 10 years. Not because he's obligated to, but just for the lulz. All he has to do is show he paid sales tax on a candy bar, or paid his property tax, or that tax they put on your phone or cable or water or electric bill. Hell, I don't think it's possible to go 8 hours in the US without paying some tax.
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Post by: Ouze
I think he definitely should release his records. What's he got to hide, right? What's the big deal, this whole thing would go away as soon as he released them, right? Why is he spending so much money to prevent them from being released?
Did I miss any GOP talking points about Obama's birth certificate from the last 4 years, give or take?
Also, remember.... long form only, please.
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Post by: Frazzled
Jihadin wrote:Wait....Hotsauce misplaced a wife?
Maybe she's buried right there by his side?
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Post by: LordofHats
"Somebody told him. It is a fact," she said.
Damnit Nancy. It was starting to look like you might actually grow a brain, but then you opened your mouth again and something innately stupid came out of it.
Now, onto Romney. I think only a fool, or a fanboi would claim Romney paid all his taxes. Surely he's managed to slip some of his income. But there is no way in hell someone with his profile goes ten years and pays nothing.
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Post by: d-usa
Was it not a fact that somebody told him?
He spoke the truth, somebody said that Romney paid no taxes. Reid didn't lie. He didn't say Romney paid no taxes, he said "somebody told me Romney has not paid taxes".
Sounds like perfectly fine GOP logic to me.
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Post by: sirlynchmob
LordofHats wrote:"Somebody told him. It is a fact," she said.
Damnit Nancy. It was starting to look like you might actually grow a brain, but then you opened your mouth again and something innately stupid came out of it.
Now, onto Romney. I think only a fool, or a fanboi would claim Romney paid all his taxes. Surely he's managed to slip some of his income. But there is no way in hell someone with his profile goes ten years and pays nothing.
I wouldn't make that claim. Didn't Obama have a heck of a time trying to find a democrat who paid taxes to fill a cabinet position? apparently senators and congressmen have problems paying taxes.
So its not outside the realm of possibilities that Romney has went a few years without paying any taxes. It's not like he's already done some magic with his money to get his IRA.
http://www.jasonmorrison.net/content/2012/a-little-math-on-mitt-romneys-ira/
"I ran across this article on Mitt Romney’s $101-million IRA and it led me to comment on Google Plus. The max yearly contribution for an IRA is $5000 (with some caveats) so it’s hard to see how one could get from there to $101,000,000 without something a bit more creative going on"
With this kind of stuff going on, he probably gets money back from the government.
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Post by: LordofHats
I was pointing out Nancy's stupidity, not Reid's. Granted, Reid is being kind of stupid making a statement like that too, cause walking into the senate and saying in front of the nation that "a guy like totally told me Romney hasn't paid taxes in ten years" is really really dumb no matter how you cut it.
Mostly I just hate Nancy Pelosi because I honestly think Sarah Palin is a smarter human being, and that really says something about what I think about Pelosi.
If I were to come to you and say that " Some guy told me Obama was born in Kenya," I'd be called an idiot by anyone with half a brain, especially if I was a senator and said it in the Senate.
The silliness of this situation though is kind of funny 
Sounds like perfectly fine GOP logic to me.
Double standard and all that.
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Post by: Do_I_Not_Like_That
I thought Romney was in hiding/disgraced after his London comments?  What happened to the Mitt hits the fan campaign?? You cannot take this guy seriously after what he said about London? America is lucky we didn't send a gunboat up the Potemac for his insults
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Post by: LoneLictor
If Romney insists that Reid is lying, why doesn't he just release his returns and prove him wrong?
Yeah, his tax returns are either as bad as what Reid said or worse.
The reason this matters? It's more of a character thing. Another character thing about Romney is that he said he wants to lower taxes on the top 5% and raise them on everyone else, because of some trickle down bs. Despite the fact that all the money from the rich doesn't trickle down, it goes to offshore tax havens. He would know.
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Post by: LordofHats
So its not outside the realm of possibilities that Romney has went a few years without paying any taxes. It's not like he's already done some magic with his money to get his IRA.
I'm sure he's gone most of his adult life without paying all of his taxes. The rich never do. But there is no way in hell that he's never paid any taxes in the last 10 years. It's practically impossible.
BTW: There's more than one kind of IRA. One kind, allows the holder to make investments using their IRA, which can cause an IRA to accrue huge amounts in a short time with proper management.
If Romney insists that Reid is lying, why doesn't he just release his returns and prove him wrong?
"Obama could just release his birth certificate!"
But of course when people demand that everyone just looks at them like they're crazy. Romney, or anyone for that matter, should not be forced to prove they are not a alien from Jupiter here to anally probe Kim Kardashian to see if 42 is the secret of life or automatically be shipped off to Area 51 for study.
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Post by: Gen. Lee Losing
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:I thought Romney was in hiding/disgraced after his London comments? What happened to the Mitt hits the fan campaign?? You cannot take this guy seriously after what he said about London? America is lucky we didn't send a gunboat up the Potemac for his insults
An insult to find that the contracted security company couldn't come up with half the people it promised as 'disconcerting'? You get offended way too easy!
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Post by: Do_I_Not_Like_That
It's sad that American politics has been reduced to scrutinizing tax returns. To be fair, Western politics in general suffers from a lack of ideas and vision. But god, what a choice for the American public come November :(
I yearn for the days of Jimmy Carter!!!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ Gen Lee, if anything it made me laugh. There was a lot of phoney outrage, mostly stirred up by the newspapers, but the reactions it caused on American news networks were quite funny.
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Post by: CT GAMER
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:It's sad that American politics has been reduced to scrutinizing tax returns. To be fair, Western politics in general suffers from a lack of ideas and vision. But god, what a choice for the American public come November :(
Given the economy and the mud being slung from both sides concerning it it only makes sense...
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Post by: Ahtman
LordofHats wrote:If Romney insists that Reid is lying, why doesn't he just release his returns and prove him wrong?
"Obama could just release his birth certificate!"
Didn't he? If they didn't how is Jumping Joe the Sheriff* calling it a fake? This issue was building before Reid said anything, as it was already noted that he had released the least amount of tax filings of any president in decades, by only releasing the minimum required by law. Considering all other candidates have released more it looks suspicious even without bizarre accusations for congress. G.W. Bush was a pretty secretive guy and he released 10 years of tax filings. Now McCain also technically only released 2 years, but that is because he released his taxes while in the Senate so they were already available. This isn't some mundane CEO position where just doing the minimum legal requirements is enough. Perception in politics is important and can be costly. Look at how many believed Obama was (and is) a secret Muslim even though it is total bs. Even Republicans have been calling on him to release his taxes. He gains nothing by hiding them, and loses a lot of credibility by ignoring the issue at this point. It will just hang over the campaign like a poison cloud. I have no doubt that some Democrats are relishing the role reversal, even if it is a little apples and oranges if you go beyond the surface.
*I can't remember his last name and don't feel like Googling it atm.
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Post by: Do_I_Not_Like_That
Well, it doesn't have to be that way. The state of the current American economy is nothing compared to the 1930s, and yet, FDR stepped up to the plate and promised action to turn it around. Now, the merits and problems with new deal are neither here nor there, but if you compare the calibre of politician from then, to now, Romney and Obama are political pygmies. They stand for nothing, they represent nothing, they believe in nothing. That's not a slur against America. For the past 30-40 years, politicians in the western world have become beholden to the market. More so now the cold war is over.
True ideology is dead and buried. If Romney is a genuine Republican, then my name's Frazz and I have a 'I love Texas' tattoo on my backside!
Similary, if Obama is a democrat, my name's George Washington!
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Post by: gorgon
Ouze wrote:I think he definitely should release his records. What's he got to hide, right? What's the big deal, this whole thing would go away as soon as he released them, right? Why is he spending so much money to prevent them from being released?
Considering that the Dems have gotten some traction on this issue, I think it's safe to say that the Romney team has discussed it at length and decided that to do so would be worse. I have read that some in the GOP disagree and think he just needs to release them, deal with whatever, and then move on.
I tend to agree, but then I don't know what's in there. There may be ample fodder for 1000 more commercials, who knows. Obviously, it's a bit of a catch-22 for Romney, and this is why the Dems aren't remotely done with this story.
Maybe none of this is fair to Romney, but I tend to chalk it up to being the downside to running a mega-rich guy for POTUS. There are probably some skeletons in the closet pertaining to how someone gets that wealthy that aren't going to play well with the average voter, especially in slow economies.
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Post by: LordofHats
Ahtman wrote:Didn't he? If they didn't how is Jumping Joe the Sheriff* calling it a fake?
That's not my point. My point is that the argument "just release the papers" is just a statement to prove guilt, cause of course he's guilty, why else wouldn't he release them? It's stupid, especially since it'll probably go the same way as Obama's Birth Certificate.It's stupid game he shouldn't have to play, but of course, Obama and Reid probably know they can score points by playing it while Romney refuses to play.
I tend to agree, but then I don't know what's in there. There may be ample fodder for 1000 more commercials, who knows. Obviously, it's a bit of a catch-22 for Romney, and this is why the Dems aren't remotely done with this story.
Honestly, I'll bet Romney has made political donations in the past that now, with a run for president, would backfire on him. Romney isn't a conservative, he's really a moderate, but he has to play the conservative game to even have a shot at being a Republican president. He's probably donated to charities and fund raisers that Republican voters might not approve of and used them as tax write offs.
He also probably doesn't want people to see just how rich he really is, so that wouldn't surprise me either.
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Post by: sourclams
I would guess that he paid very little in tax through 2008 given that he was probably largely 'in' a market that cratered, just like everyone else. That would have been written off as a loss. Similarly, since he's largely an investment holder, he is likely taxed at the lower capital gains rate through that entire period, just like Warren Buffett.
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Post by: Ahtman
LordofHats wrote:Ahtman wrote:Didn't he? If they didn't how is Jumping Joe the Sheriff* calling it a fake?
That's not my point.
I wasn't saying Romney was guilty, just that I thought Obama had released his birth certificate. I don't care if he releases his returns or not. I'm interested in how it will play out in the same way that a person views a science experiment. I just don't see an upside to the whole thing at this point, unless he has some huge skeletons in his closet, in which case it would be good to keep towing the line about doing the minimum required by law and hoping to get in under the wire.
LordofHats wrote:He also probably doesn't want people to see just how rich he really is, so that wouldn't surprise me either.
I don't really buy that. We already know he is insanely rich, and trying to pretend otherwise just makes him seem out of touch, and maybe a bit effete. Acknowledging his wealth would probably get more people to like him than trying to be a regular Joe. Donating to charities that other, less moderate Republicans might not like is certainly a possibility, but I doubt that it would be the only thing that would hold them back.
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Post by: Melissia
Reid should reveal her source, honestly.
If she has a reliable source, they should blow the whistle and then we can punish Romney's company.
IF.
Companies are punished far too lightly these days. We need to start revoking their license to do business instead of merely tossing out fines.
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Post by: LordofHats
Did Reid get a sex change
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Post by: Jihadin
Mel......Reid is a he....
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Post by: Ahtman
Jihadin wrote:Mel......Reid is a he....
Can we really know without seeing a birth certificate? 
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Post by: Melissia
Dunno why I siad she. Honestly though, I don't care. They're not my representative so I don't pay much attention to them.
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Post by: LordofHats
Ahtman wrote:Jihadin wrote:Mel......Reid is a he....
Can we really know without seeing a birth certificate?
Wait, your right.
I demand Reid prove he's not a woman! How can we trust a majority leader who lies about her biology!
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Post by: hotsauceman1
Frazzled wrote:Jihadin wrote:Wait....Hotsauce misplaced a wife?
Maybe she's buried right there by his side?
Im just flattered you guys think im good enough to be in a relationship.
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Post by: d-usa
I say screw evidence for anything, make all the accusations you can!
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Post by: Frazzled
Bonus question - which group's "I Used to Love Her" had those lyrics (no intranetz peaking!)
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Post by: Lynata
Ahtman wrote:But as part of that discussion he also said that to not use them would mean losing every single time; only a fool goes into a fight with both arms tied behind their back. They are a reality of politics and all the rhetoric in the world doesn't remove them from the equation. At least this instance the politician is up front about it. There is a history of politicians having to make compromises going back to, well, the stone age. Nit picking this one is just being blinded by paritsan glasses.
I'm not nitpicking, I just think it's sad that he feels he has to make compromises like this one. It's obvious he'll never be able to raise as much money as the Republicans anyways - might at well stay true to his ideals.
Yes, not doing so potentially puts him at a disadvantage compared to his opponent. But the same goes for a lot of other dirty tricks.
Ahtman wrote:Besides, neither Romney nor Obama use them, as they are separate entities from the campaigns, and it would be illegal for either of them to coordinate with them.
Oh come on.
http://www.iwatchnews.org/2012/01/13/7866/rules-against-coordination-between-super-pacs-candidates-tough-enforce
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/20/colbert-super-pac_n_1215975.html
You know, it's almost gotten to a point where you can do away with elections altogether and have citizens buy shares in a corporate government. Wouldn't that be more efficient? And totally non-socialist!
PS: Sheesh, Colbert is awesome. I need to watch more of this guy.
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Post by: LordofHats
You can never have too much Colbert
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Post by: sirlynchmob
Frazzled wrote:Bonus question - which group's "I Used to Love Her" had those lyrics (no intranetz peaking!)
GNR, I wouldn't think you'd know that group, I think they came around after 8 tracks
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Post by: Jihadin
Holy crap...I remember the 8 track in my mom and dad's car.....
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Post by: Ahtman
Lynata wrote:I just think it's sad that he feels he has to make compromises like this one.
Romney has to make the same compromises.
Lynata wrote:It's obvious he'll never be able to raise as much money as the Republicans anyways.
He raised a lot of money last time, and is raising many again. This isn't about campaign financing, it is about third party spoilers, more or less.
Lynata wrote:might at well stay true to his ideals.
Hark! Do you hear it? It is the mating call of a losing campaign. Part of being a professional politician, hell an adult, is knowing when to compromise, and when not to. We don't exist alone here so on occasion we have have to take into account others.
Lynata wrote:Yes, not doing so potentially puts him at a disadvantage compared to his opponent. But the same goes for a lot of other dirty tricks.
It isn't potential disadvantage, it is just flat out a disadvantage. It also isn't a dirty trick, just a sad state of modern post-Citizens United ruling. Recognizing how ridiculious it is doesn't mean it is like throwing mud in someones eye during a football game.
Lynata wrote:You know, it's almost gotten to a point where you can do away with elections altogether and have citizens buy shares in a corporate government. Wouldn't that be more efficient? And totally non-socialist!
PS: Sheesh, Colbert is awesome. I need to watch more of this guy.
I was being a bit cheeky becuase they keep referring to it as 'Obama's' or 'Romney's', when technically they are separate entities. Colbert's ongoing bits on Super and Spooky PACs are amazing, and a little frightening.
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Post by: Frazzled
sirlynchmob wrote:Frazzled wrote:Bonus question - which group's "I Used to Love Her" had those lyrics (no intranetz peaking!)
GNR, I wouldn't think you'd know that group, I think they came around after 8 tracks
Mmm 8 tracks. Memories of Freddy Fender, Johnny Cash, Waylong Jennings, and Janis Joplin flooding into my mind. Thank you for that.
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Post by: Lynata
Ahtman wrote:Romney has to make the same compromises.
Which is why *I* wouldn't vote him.
Ahtman wrote:He raised a lot of money last time, and is raising many again. This isn't about campaign financing, it is about third party spoilers, more or less.
Oh come on. Whose name is on the cheque is completely irrelevant when everyone knows what the money is meant for.
Denying the threat that Super PACs are posing to the fundamental concepts of democracy is taking another brick out of the wall. 
Ahtman wrote:It also isn't a dirty trick, just a sad state of modern post-Citizens United ruling.
From where I stand it's legalised corruption.
A candidate now just has to promise the corporations whatever and they're free to fund his campaign with all the money they made on the backs of the voters - said money then being used to brainwash the very same people via media spin. A vicious cycle.
I mean ... dammit, I know that corporations donating money to a party has always been part of the game - but that it can now be done in broad daylight is just flat wrong.
And no, don't fall back to the supposed lack of connection between the PACs and the party now. You of all people should know that things are not that honest.
Here's another bit of political satire - with a dark undertone: http://www.cap-news.com/story.php?id=201202002
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Post by: streamdragon
LordofHats wrote:Ahtman wrote:Jihadin wrote:Mel......Reid is a he....
Can we really know without seeing a birth certificate?
Wait, your right.
I demand Reid prove he's not a woman! How can we trust a majority leader who lies about her biology!
Ask yourself: Do you really want a 72 year old man to drop his trousers to prove to you his gender?
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Post by: Jihadin
Can do it on the Senate floor and no one can really say a dang thing
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Post by: streamdragon
It's less the legality and more "who really wants to see a 72 year old man's wang?"
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Post by: LoneLictor
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Post by: Ahtman
LoneLictor wrote:I think this matters a lot more than Romney's tax returns.
It all matters to varying degrees, unless one is a single issue voter, in which case nothing else matters, including your link if it doesn't effect the one issue.
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Post by: d-usa
The majority of people are single issue voters.
Is he a republican or a democrat.
Only thing that matters for too many people.
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Post by: sebster
Reid's handling of the issue has been terrible. The Democrats have already scored a lot of points against Romney on this, and managed to frame the perception of Romney away from 'the kind of can-do businessman who can take us out of economic hardship' and into 'the kind of businessman who outsources jobs and pays too few taxes who put us into this mess in the first place'. There's no need to oversell that point, and yet Reid does that anyway, by making a specific claim about Romney with no evidence to back it up, which in turns gives FOX news scope to challenge this, and thereby throw some level of doubt over the whole campaign. I've always wondered why Republicans went after Pelosi so strongly. She was always a stronger performer than Reid. Automatically Appended Next Post: whembly wrote:Caveat: If he does release his last 10 years of tax record... I hope it show that he maximized his tax savings. I want a president that is smart/savvy enough to take advantage of legal tax strategies.
Your mistake there is in assuming tax strategies exist in some kind of bubble, completing outside of human intervention. We write the tax laws that produce those tax strategies, and can change them when they produce results that aren't desirable. I mean, if it was discovered that Romney earned 50 million in 2008 and paid $37 in tax, it'd be complete nonsense to say 'it was all legal, nothing to see here'... it'd demand a major review of the tax code. That's the point here, not 'were his returns legal?' but 'is the amount of tax he paid considered reasonable to most Americans?' Oh, and complaining about class warfare is just silly. Progressive tax isn't class warfare. Seizing the land of the aristocracy and handing out parcels of it to the serfs, nationalising the assets of wealthy industrialist, lining up bankers in a firing line... that's class warfare. Use words according to their actual meaning, please.
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Post by: youbedead
Once again the modern Democratic party show that they are really bad at the game of politics. It was, as you said, extremely harmful to the democratic campaign and they really should be trying to present a united front, which is something they are really bad at.
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Post by: LordofHats
I've always wondered why Republicans went after Pelosi so strongly. She was always a stronger performer than Reid.
Probably because she's kind of a twit. Basically a walking blow horn that just spews nonsense (I actually don't think she's an idiot, she just says idiotic things). I don't follow Reid at all, so I have no idea if he's worse
Once again the modern Democratic party show that they are really bad at the game of politics. It was, as you said, extremely harmful to the democratic campaign and they really should be trying to present a united front, which is something they are really bad at.
Well sure, but they don't have to be good at it. They just have to be better than the Republicans
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Post by: youbedead
LordofHats wrote:I've always wondered why Republicans went after Pelosi so strongly. She was always a stronger performer than Reid.
Probably because she's kind of a twit. Basically a walking blow horn that just spews nonsense (I actually don't think she's an idiot, she just says idiotic things). I don't follow Reid at all, so I have no idea if he's worse
Once again the modern Democratic party show that they are really bad at the game of politics. It was, as you said, extremely harmful to the democratic campaign and they really should be trying to present a united front, which is something they are really bad at.
Well sure, but they don't have to be good at it. They just have to be better than the Republicans
The republicans as a party are significantly better at politics then the Democrats, when the dems had a super majority they still bowed to republican pressure despite no republican would vote for their bills
“It's not that the Democrats are playing checkers and the Republicans are playing chess. It's that the Republicans are playing chess and the Democrats are in the nurse's office because once again they glued their balls to their thighs.”-Jon Stewart
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Post by: juraigamer
This is too simple, just reveal the requested information and move on.
If you can't reveal something, it sounds like you're hiding something.
And to the notion that revealing the documents is only adding fuel to the fire, I agree, don't you all remember how long fox news talked and displayed a certain birth certificate? Did it matter? No it didn't, and only a crazed billionaire with a toupee talks about it anymore.
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Post by: Jihadin
Problem with that if Romney shows his pass ten year tax return how many would believe it was "doctored" or fake
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Post by: Melissia
Of course it was doctored.
Before it was submitted to the IRS.
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Post by: Jihadin
Then we're all guilty of doctoring our tax returns
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Post by: Frazzled
Wait we're supposed to file tax returns?
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Post by: Jihadin
I had fun filling out my tax returns. All my 40K purchases was a tax deduction. All 3.5K worth
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Post by: Ouze
Jihadin wrote:Problem with that if Romney shows his pass ten year tax return how many would believe it was "doctored" or fake
I know just the guy for checking that out.
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Post by: Jihadin
Before I click on that Ouze I'm guessing Apaio
edit
I WIN!!!!
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Post by: Ouze
Well, it was him or Orly Taitz, and he seems to like the attention more.
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Post by: Jihadin
Yes. Yes. He does. I think age is effecting his mind at times.
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Post by: whembly
Wasn't this in a different thread? 
sebster wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
whembly wrote:Caveat: If he does release his last 10 years of tax record... I hope it show that he maximized his tax savings. I want a president that is smart/savvy enough to take advantage of legal tax strategies.
Your mistake there is in assuming tax strategies exist in some kind of bubble, completing outside of human intervention. We write the tax laws that produce those tax strategies, and can change them when they produce results that aren't desirable. I mean, if it was discovered that Romney earned 50 million in 2008 and paid $37 in tax, it'd be complete nonsense to say 'it was all legal, nothing to see here'... it'd demand a major review of the tax code.
That's the point here, not 'were his returns legal?' but 'is the amount of tax he paid considered reasonable to most Americans?'
Yes... I see your drift here... but, why blame him for taking advantage of something legal. If we don't like it, it needs to change.
I think I mentioned in the other thread that I'd advocate just keeping the same tax bracket and just remove ALL deductions/loopholes.
Oh, and complaining about class warfare is just silly. Progressive tax isn't class warfare. Seizing the land of the aristocracy and handing out parcels of it to the serfs, nationalising the assets of wealthy industrialist, lining up bankers in a firing line... that's class warfare. Use words according to their actual meaning, please.
Mea culpa... you're right... for some reason in my sleep deprived state I've latched onto that concept. I think what I was really driving at (and it's not exactly right), is that the "social engineering" onto the tax code is the problem. This spawns all sorts of (in my opinion) undesirable behaviors, such as legally mitigating your tax liabilities. Everyone does it... it's just that the super rich benefits from that even more. THATS where the angst comes from...
Back to the OP: It's August... I think that Romney is just embarrassed that he has too much money and maximized his tax strategy legally (as any wealthy or big corporation does). He should release them now, call out Reid's bluff.
Yeah, Romney will look bad in the short term that "he's just another rich white guy"... but, I don't think it's that damaging because we already know he's filthy rich. Better release it now, take his licking in August where no one will remember in November.
Then, it'll essentially show that Reid has no credibility from this point forward and we'll question every future accusations.
And oh... stop this "I'll release this if you release Obama's sealed record"... meh... who cares.
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Post by: SilverMK2
whembly wrote:Yes... I see your drift here... but, why blame him for taking advantage of something legal. If we don't like it, it needs to change.
The problem being that the people this benefits most by keeping things as they are, are those in charge of being able to change it. Same reason that you probably will not see any change to the stupid way that companies are protected in the US; today's sentate/congress/etc is tomorrow's (and probably yesterday's) board members.
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Post by: Huffy
Interestingly enough...I've heard a possible reason he wont release his returns is the Mormon Church. He is supposed to pay a tithe of all his income to the church. Were his tax returns to show he hasn't been doing that, he would lose his position as an elder of the church and likely be excommunicated.
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Post by: TheHammer
I find it hilarious that people think Harry Reid is hurting President Obama's chances in the election.
No one cares about Harry Reid. He's not on any ballots this year. Having him come out and just say crazy gak about Romney just keeps the conversation on how Romney is this weird millionaire, which is good for Obama.
This has also made it so Romney can't run on his success in Bain. Oh, this also doesn't help him any:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/08/mitt-romney-death-squads-bain_n_1710133.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular
I almost feel bad for Mitt Romney. He's a Mormon church leader who has made hundreds of millions of dollars in venture capital who can speak French and who became the governor of a New England state, and the only thing he can run on is how he "saved" the Olympics.
I'd feel bad for the guy if he actually believed in anything more than his own success.
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Post by: Lynata
Huh, I guess cynics would say that things are coming "full circle", when you think about stuff like Project FUBELT etc.
Also makes you wonder where the money for Romney's Super PACs is coming from, though.
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Post by: Ahtman
The secret of a great success for which you are at a loss to account is a crime that has never been found out, because it was properly executed. - Honoré de Balzac's Le Père Goriot
For the French readers:
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Post by: Ouze
As an update to this "story", Romney released his 2011 taxes on Friday. Lo and behold, he pays taxes.
I think Harry Reid owes Mr. Romney; and the American people, an apology for his shenanigans and/or nonsense.
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Post by: Frazzled
I don't think any Demcrat in his life has ever apologized. It was said on the Senate floor, so he couldn't be sued. As Muldoon said to the raptor that pops out of the bushes, "clever girl."
You know this campaign is getting tedious when even I am getting tired of it.
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Post by: Ouze
 Frazzled wrote:I don't think any Demcrat in his life has ever apologized. It was said on the Senate floor, so he couldn't be sued. As Muldoon said to the raptor that pops out of the bushes, "clever girl."
You know this campaign is getting tedious when even I am getting tired of it.
Underlining mine - that's not true. He said it in an interview with the Huffington Post. I thought the same thing and then checked it before I posted it here just to make sure someone else didn't call me out on that. So far as the other but, he can't be sued because Romney is a public figure and he hedged what he said a little - just enough to make Romney almost certainly unable to prevail.
Also, holy crap, it looks the MSM is actually calling for an apology as well. Google "harry reid mitt romney taxes 10 years" and look at news for some hits on that.
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Post by: Frazzled
 Ouze wrote: Frazzled wrote:I don't think any Demcrat in his life has ever apologized. It was said on the Senate floor, so he couldn't be sued. As Muldoon said to the raptor that pops out of the bushes, "clever girl."
You know this campaign is getting tedious when even I am getting tired of it.
Underlining mine - that's not true. He said it in an interview with the Huffington Post. I thought the same thing and then checked it before I posted it here just to make sure someone else didn't call me out on that. So far as the other but, he can't be sued because Romney is a public figure and he hedged what he said a little - just enough to make Romney almost certainly unable to prevail.
Also, holy crap, it looks the MSM is actually calling for an apology as well. Google "harry reid mitt romney taxes 10 years" and look at news for some hits on that.
The actual speech was made on the Senate floor.
The MSM may call for it, but they will never get it. Now in the Democrats' defense you'll never see an apology from a Republican either.
Reid is a crank and a failure as a President pro Tempore. Its like the entire Senate just quit doing anything after 2010.
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Post by: AgeOfEgos
 Huffy wrote:Interestingly enough...I've heard a possible reason he wont release his returns is the Mormon Church. He is supposed to pay a tithe of all his income to the church. Were his tax returns to show he hasn't been doing that, he would lose his position as an elder of the church and likely be excommunicated.
I doubt that. I would assume it's more than likely due to the 2009 tax amnesty--which would be very difficult for him to explain--and if true, end the disaster of the campaign his staff is running.
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Post by: dogma
Frazzled wrote:Its like the entire Senate just quit doing anything after 2010.
Oh, they did things, just no the things you want them to do.
However they did do what nearly every American wanted them to do.
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Post by: Jihadin
I think the very important issue of the Sportsman Bill took priority this time around.....
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Post by: d-usa
At least the senate killed the veterans bill last week. Those dang welfare queens need to quit mooching of the government, not like our wars caused their problems...
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Post by: whembly
 d-usa wrote:At least the senate killed the veterans bill last week. Those dang welfare queens need to quit mooching of the government, not like our wars caused their problems...
What was that bill about?
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Post by: youbedead
 whembly wrote: d-usa wrote:At least the senate killed the veterans bill last week. Those dang welfare queens need to quit mooching of the government, not like our wars caused their problems...
What was that bill about?
An extra 180 bucks a month to serviceman.
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Post by: whembly
Ah... I'm torn on the issue...
If there's one thing you won't get an argument from me... is whatever veterans needs, they should get.
It seems that procedurally, it would pass if they can figure out how to pay for it... (which usually means, what can we cut in order to fund this?).
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Post by: AduroT
Frazzled wrote:I don't think any Demcrat in his life has ever apologized. It was said on the Senate floor, so he couldn't be sued. As Muldoon said to the raptor that pops out of the bushes, "clever girl."
You know this campaign is getting tedious when even I am getting tired of it.
Then why do the Republicans always accuse Democrats of apologizing for America?
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Post by: Frazzled
 AduroT wrote: Frazzled wrote:I don't think any Demcrat in his life has ever apologized. It was said on the Senate floor, so he couldn't be sued. As Muldoon said to the raptor that pops out of the bushes, "clever girl."
You know this campaign is getting tedious when even I am getting tired of it.
Then why do the Republicans always accuse Democrats of apologizing for America?
Are they on camera? then the answer is simple: they are lying.
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