Like in the title - how would you counter balance him and general stupidness which they done...I' mean like Mortarion round 2, give him to Magnus or Abaddon or maybe get someone like Kharn to deal with him....
(probably Draigo would win all this fights:-)....

Easy, just make a part II in the up coming Chaos Codex.

Something like Mortarion was following Tzeentch's secret plan and threw the fight as a loss on purpose etc etc.

Simultaneously "fixing" the GK fluff while making the new Chaos fluff "BAD ASS"

and the cycle continues xD

LunaHound wrote:Easy, just make a part II in the up coming Chaos Codex.

Something like Mortarion was following Tzeentch's secret plan and threw the fight as a loss on purpose etc etc.

Simultaneously "fixing" the GK fluff while making the new Chaos fluff "BAD ASS"

and the cycle continues xD

Oooo it sounds to sweet......

The easy way to fix his fluff is to simply say he's an unknowing pawn of the chaos gods.

Yes, it would involve Tzeentch, but its not like mortarion would have to throw the fight. The specifics of the Mortarion vs Draigo fight isnt know, but I could see how Tzeentch could see that Draigo would encounter Mortarion, and how he could want Mortarion defeated, to weaken one of Nurgle's champions.

So, all he would have to do is encourage a rebellion, and time it so some daemon attempts to kill him right before Draigo arrives. Obviously, the hapless daemon tool fails, and Mortarion wins, but he is weakened in the process, enough for a Grand Master of the Grey Knights to defeat him.

All his supposed "victories" in the warp... orchestrated by Tzeentch, who subtly weakens his enemies, or pacifies the warp around him to recover from fights. One day, he will see a situation he assumes he can win, because he has won so many before, and will engage in the fight.... and Tzeentch will have forseen this, and instead stacked the odds against Draigo, so he dies.

I would first make him slowly but surely being corrupted by Tzentech. And with each time he is summoned he is closer to being consumed by the chaos and turning on his brothers.
Also have Khorne come by and sit on him.

hotsauceman1 wrote:I would first make him slowly but surely being corrupted by Tzentech. And with each time he is summoned he is closer to being consumed by the chaos and turning on his brothers.
Also have Khorne come by and sit on him.

I'm still of the school of thought that grey knights are incorruptable.

The new fluff involving purifiers is stupid ><

There's nothing wrong with it.

I really like the idea of him being trapped in the Warp, every victory he earns being meaningless. How long before he simply gives up? The Warp is the Chaos Gods playground. He's only there because they want him to be. Sooner or later, after the hundred thousandth time he's defeated the same Daemon, he'll give up. He'll sit down and say "What's the point? I'm not even banishing them from the real world. They just come straight back".

And what then?

I think Draigo could become the very first Grey Knight to fall to Chaos.

Of course, it's a bit silly that he comes back into the real world on occasion, but how else do you make him a playable character?

Horst wrote:

I'm still of the school of thought that grey knights are incorruptable.

The new fluff involving purifiers is stupid ><

I don't mind it. To some Grey Knights, the temptations of the dark gods are a very real concern that occupies much of their time and willpower. Only through a continuous and concentrated effort do they resist. To others, the temptation of Chaos fall on deaf ears. These are the purifiers.

It's like anything in life. For some people, doing the "right thing" takes a lot of willpower. For others, it's just natural.

Kaldor wrote:There's nothing wrong with it.

That's fething right.

I want you to try to imagine the most badass cover to a metal album ever conceived of. That is Kaldor Draigo.

Complaining about Kaldor Draigo is like complaining about Doomrider. If you don't know who that is or don't understand what I mean then ... man, I just don't know. Maybe you're too cool to be playing with toy soldiers.

Easy fix.

There is no Draigo. He is a mythical character whose stories are told to new GKs to inspire them to achieve greatness.

DeffDred wrote:He is a mythical character whose stories are told to new GKs to inspire them to achieve greatness.

That's not going to work for people who misunderstand 40k, er, I mean, hate the Draigo fluff. You see, they think the story itself is absolutely ridiculous. So if GK actually pass that kind of story around themselves and see it as inspirational then that makes the GK ridiculous.

Wasn't that already the case with the new fluff?

And point proven.

Kaldor wrote:There's nothing wrong with it.

This. I've never understood why it's so incomprehensible that a guy who's the best of the best of the Imperium's Daemonhunters, a guy whose mere presence is painful to daemons, his very bones etched with anti-demonic wards, managed to banish a daemon Primarch who'd just gone to town beating the previous Supreme Grand Master to death. It'd stand to reason that fighting two guys (the best two) whose very reason to exist is to make you as miserable as possible would weaken you quite a bit. I don't ever see anyone complaining that Khârn's fluff is a bit OTT (Which, let's face it, it is. Love the guy though), despite him killing everything in his way and then some. Is it just some sort of irrational hatred against "good" (very arguably) heroes being as strong (or silly, you choose) as some of their evil counterparts? Is it just "it's new therefore it sucks"? Is it something I've missed completely?

I've never understood why it's so incomprehensible that a guy who can just hurrrr his way through everything Chaos throws at him is laem.

A bottle full of whiteout is the best start, and from there build up a create something new,
WE can rebuild him
Stronger, Faster, Tougher, for he shall be named EMPRAH...
But in all serious just give him a good background not over the top a he is set to go.

BlaxicanX wrote:I've never understood why it's so incomprehensible that a guy who can just hurrrr his way through everything Chaos throws at him is laem.

The same way that Khârn "hurrs" his way through everything? Or Ghazghkull? The difference being, of course, that Khârn actually kills stuff, instead of having his work undone with ease.

Why is it that everytime the Imperium has someone that's good enough to take on a major enemy one on one it's reviled like hell (Mephiston, Calgar, Draigo, Tigurius), but when some non-Imperium dude does something equally ridiculous (Ghazghkull, Swarmlord, fething Maugan Ra not to mention Eldrad) it's generally ignored?

I wish his backstory got fleshed out, and he was that kid who the Grey Knights found in the torn up commune in a short story in the back of an old WD (the daemonhunters one I think, with DH v Eldar battle report). I loved that story, and it would fit Draigo I think

motyak wrote:I wish his backstory got fleshed out, and he was that kid who the Grey Knights found in the torn up commune in a short story in the back of an old WD (the daemonhunters one I think, with DH v Eldar battle report). I loved that story, and it would fit Draigo I think

That I can agree with.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:I've never understood why it's so incomprehensible that a guy who can just hurrrr his way through everything Chaos throws at him is laem.

The same way that Khârn "hurrs" his way through everything? Or Ghazghkull? The difference being, of course, that Khârn actually kills stuff, instead of having his work undone with ease.

Why is it that everytime the Imperium has someone that's good enough to take on a major enemy one on one it's reviled like hell (Mephiston, Calgar, Draigo, Tigurius), but when some non-Imperium dude does something equally ridiculous (Ghazghkull, Swarmlord, fething Maugan Ra not to mention Eldrad) it's generally ignored?

Easy

Ghazghull: universally liked (pretty much) as his fluff is both cool and fits the fluff nicely,
Swarmlord: Also fits the fluff nicely as the big daddy superbug in a race of superbugs
Maugan ra: Again fits the fluff AND cut a trygon in half with his axe.. awsome
Eldrad: once again fluff doeth fit well with the rest of 40k
Kharn: This guy rocks the casbar... nuff said

Draigo: A primarch.. really? a bloody Deamon primarch??? walks though the warp fighting unlimited deamons.. um ok, oh and he isnt a spirit going through the warp that would disipate his corporial boby into itty bitty ickle bits of .. well nothing, he is alive and walking around..in the warp.

So basically Draigos fluff breaks a bunch of the main themes of 40k, just so matt ward could have a special little snow flake.

motyak wrote:I wish his backstory got fleshed out, and he was that kid who the Grey Knights found in the torn up commune in a short story in the back of an old WD (the daemonhunters one I think, with DH v Eldar battle report). I loved that story, and it would fit Draigo I think

Agreed. He simply needs to have some characterization other than being the greatest Grey Knight that every lived. As it stands, we know of some things that he did, but not much about him personally. Maybe Black Library will give us a book that expands on him and gives him some deep, personal struggles he must face while being trapped within the Warp.

Formosa wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:I've never understood why it's so incomprehensible that a guy who can just hurrrr his way through everything Chaos throws at him is laem.

The same way that Khârn "hurrs" his way through everything? Or Ghazghkull? The difference being, of course, that Khârn actually kills stuff, instead of having his work undone with ease.

Why is it that everytime the Imperium has someone that's good enough to take on a major enemy one on one it's reviled like hell (Mephiston, Calgar, Draigo, Tigurius), but when some non-Imperium dude does something equally ridiculous (Ghazghkull, Swarmlord, fething Maugan Ra not to mention Eldrad) it's generally ignored?

Easy

Ghazghull: universally liked (pretty much) as his fluff is both cool and fits the fluff nicely,
Swarmlord: Also fits the fluff nicely as the big daddy superbug in a race of superbugs
Maugan ra: Again fits the fluff AND cut a trygon in half with his axe.. awsome
Eldrad: once again fluff doeth fit well with the rest of 40k
Kharn: This guy rocks the casbar... nuff said

Draigo: A primarch.. really? a bloody Deamon primarch??? walks though the warp fighting unlimited deamons.. um ok, oh and he isnt a spirit going through the warp that would disipate his corporial boby into itty bitty ickle bits of .. well nothing, he is alive and walking around..in the warp.

So basically Draigos fluff breaks a bunch of the main themes of 40k, just so matt ward could have a special little snow flake.

The same way that Maugan Ra held back an entire Tyranid Hive Fleet from a planet BY HIMSELF? This is what I'm talking about, it's just silly that that "fits the fluff" and is "awesome", whereas the Imperial counterparts are "bad Mary Sues".

Where is that fluff about Maugan Ra? eldar codex?

BlaxicanX wrote:I've never understood why it's so incomprehensible that a guy who can just hurrrr his way through everything Chaos throws at him is laem.

It would be, but that's not what Draigo is.

After a titanic clash of forces, Draigo banished Mortarion. So what? That's pretty much exactly what happened during the first war for Armageddon and no one complains about that.

Later, Draigo was trapped in the Warp, where he is a toy for the Chaos gods. You think they couldn't just disintegrate him if they wanted? Of course they could.

But they don't want to. They have all eternity to make him repeat the same battles over and over, and see just how long it takes for his will to break.

I think a lot of the problem stems from its fanboy nature, if it had been written a little less, exuberant shall we say, with a little more thought into its execution, it would be fine.

This is the case with the codex itself in my opinion, a little more time providing a better explanation and half the hatred towards it wouldn't have happened.

It's reviled because it's relatively new. In nine years, kids will think Draigo is awesome and talk about Fifth Edition was a golden age for 40k.

Manchu wrote:It's reviled because it's relatively new. In nine years, kids will think Draigo is awesome and talk about Fifth Edition was a golden age for 40k.

Totally, new kid's will all be GK fanboys just because of him ,btw ALL the epic-great characters have other side of the coin( read :weaknesses or stupidity ) even the meatbag Emperor when he was almost snuffed by a world biggest ork and was outdrinked by Russ:-)
But Draigo would probably outdrink Russ and fart a psykic storm which would kill all of Khorne's bloodthirsters.....

DarthMarko wrote:

Manchu wrote:It's reviled because it's relatively new. In nine years, kids will think Draigo is awesome and talk about Fifth Edition was a golden age for 40k.

Totally, new kid's will all be GK fanboys just because of him ,btw ALL the epic-great characters have other side of the coin( read :weaknesses or stupidity ) even the meatbag Emperor when he was almost snuffed by a world biggest ork and was outdrinked by Russ:-)
But Draigo would probably outdrink Russ and fart a psykic storm which would kill all of Khorne's bloodthirsters.....

What's Khârn's bad side? Maugan Ra's? Ghazghkull's? The Swarmlord's? And that's not even including the fact that all Draigo ever does in the Warp is completely pointless.

MarkyMark wrote:Where is that fluff about Maugan Ra? eldar codex?

Tyranid 5th edition.

What's Khârn's bad side?

Uh..I can't think of any, I mean he dies occasionally, get's brought back, shattered two entire legions by himself in one battle..

Kharn was owned by Loken ( it was hersey I know, but still )
and how can you like a guy who has no flaws?

I think if we look at the facts of Draigo story, it's not that bad, or as over the top as any other champion.
I mean he is suppose to be the greatest master of the Grey Knights, who are like space marines on steroids with psychic powers and the best possible armament that the imperium can provide.

My problem with it is the way its written. It really feels like ward was trying really hard, to hard actualy, to make us see how good Draigo is.
If it was written in a more neutral, more unbiased style, I honestly think I would have enjoyed the read.

Well thats my 2 cents anyway. We just have to remeber Ward isn't an exelent writer. He has lots of ideas, but he has trouble putting them down on papper.
He will get better, with practise.
And in any case, you can't play 40k and enjoy the fluff, and moan about something being ott.
Thats like saying I LIKE ICECREAM, but this one is to cold.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Kaldor wrote:There's nothing wrong with it.

This. I've never understood why it's so incomprehensible that a guy who's the best of the best of the Imperium's Daemonhunters, a guy whose mere presence is painful to daemons, his very bones etched with anti-demonic wards, managed to banish a daemon Primarch who'd just gone to town beating the previous Supreme Grand Master to death. It'd stand to reason that fighting two guys (the best two) whose very reason to exist is to make you as miserable as possible would weaken you quite a bit.

Why does he remain Grand Master of a Chapter when he's not there?

Just Dave wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Kaldor wrote:There's nothing wrong with it.

This. I've never understood why it's so incomprehensible that a guy who's the best of the best of the Imperium's Daemonhunters, a guy whose mere presence is painful to daemons, his very bones etched with anti-demonic wards, managed to banish a daemon Primarch who'd just gone to town beating the previous Supreme Grand Master to death. It'd stand to reason that fighting two guys (the best two) whose very reason to exist is to make you as miserable as possible would weaken you quite a bit.

Why does he remain Grand Master of a Chapter when he's not there?

Because you're Supreme Grand Master for life? It's easily explainable by just assuming that someone else runs the Chapter anyway.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Kaldor wrote:There's nothing wrong with it.

This. I've never understood why it's so incomprehensible that a guy who's the best of the best of the Imperium's Daemonhunters, a guy whose mere presence is painful to daemons, his very bones etched with anti-demonic wards, managed to banish a daemon Primarch who'd just gone to town beating the previous Supreme Grand Master to death. It'd stand to reason that fighting two guys (the best two) whose very reason to exist is to make you as miserable as possible would weaken you quite a bit. I don't ever see anyone complaining that Khârn's fluff is a bit OTT (Which, let's face it, it is. Love the guy though), despite him killing everything in his way and then some. Is it just some sort of irrational hatred against "good" (very arguably) heroes being as strong (or silly, you choose) as some of their evil counterparts? Is it just "it's new therefore it sucks"? Is it something I've missed completely?

Mortarion is not a daemon.

He is the avatar of Nurgle. He is DEATH ITSELF.

Draigo is a complete rip-off of the story of Hercules where Herc fights Death to save a friends life.

Herc pins Death to the ground outside of his friends house for like a year or something while something else is going on... it's been a few years since I've read my mythology books.

I don't have a problem with most of the Draigo fluff. Just the Mortarion battle and the whole burning down the gardens of Nurgle ect.

Kaldor wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:I've never understood why it's so incomprehensible that a guy who can just hurrrr his way through everything Chaos throws at him is laem.

It would be, but that's not what Draigo is.

After a titanic clash of forces, Draigo banished Mortarion. So what? That's pretty much exactly what happened during the first war for Armageddon and no one complains about that.

Later, Draigo was trapped in the Warp, where he is a toy for the Chaos gods. You think they couldn't just disintegrate him if they wanted? Of course they could.

But they don't want to. They have all eternity to make him repeat the same battles over and over, and see just how long it takes for his will to break.

That was 109 Grey Knights, of which only 13 survived. Plus as you see in The Emperor's Gift, even that victory was barely won.

The Draigo vs Mortarion thing is worse because it's more embarrassing to an established villain (carving his name in his heart? really?), and also because there's no indication was anyone other then Draigo after he killed the previous Supreme Grand Master. If they expanded upon it rather then making it a little blurb it might be more passable.

I would improve it by making his feats a bit less ridiculous and make it seem like he's not just rampaging around the Warp with impunity, so much so that Daemons now seem to be avoiding him altogether. Have the fortress of M'Kachen reappear as if nothing happened a short time after Draigo destroys it. Have him lose an arm and show a struggle. Right now he's basically unstoppable.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:I've never understood why it's so incomprehensible that a guy who can just hurrrr his way through everything Chaos throws at him is laem.

The same way that Khârn "hurrs" his way through everything? Or Ghazghkull? The difference being, of course, that Khârn actually kills stuff, instead of having his work undone with ease.

Why is it that everytime the Imperium has someone that's good enough to take on a major enemy one on one it's reviled like hell (Mephiston, Calgar, Draigo, Tigurius), but when some non-Imperium dude does something equally ridiculous (Ghazghkull, Swarmlord, fething Maugan Ra not to mention Eldrad) it's generally ignored?

- Kharn doesn't huurr his way through everything. He's a formidaable fighter, but has never defeated anyone note worthy.

- Ghazzy doesn't hurr his way through everything. He's already lost one war and been stalemated in his second one, he's now running for his life from Yarrick and the Black Templars.

- Swarmlord has never killed anyone of note.

-Maugan Ra has never killed anyone of note.

-Eldrad never killed anyone of note, and is now dead and having his feet tickled for all eternally by Slaanesh.

Are there any more unsuccessful connections you'd like to make?

BlaxicanX wrote:Eldrad never killed anyone of note, and is now dead and having his feet tickled for all eternally by Slaanesh.

That's a weird image.

Myabe if it was revealed that he's become sort of warp entity and that how he's suviving in there.

Mortarion is not a daemon.

He is the avatar of Nurgle. He is DEATH ITSELF.

Not really, he is indeed a Daemon, by that logic Angron should be FURY ITSELF but rather than being the most high of champions Khorne pays more attention to his underling Kharn the Betrayer.

Draigo is a complete rip-off of the story of Hercules where Herc fights Death to save a friends life.

Herc pins Death to the ground outside of his friends house for like a year or something while something else is going on... it's been a few years since I've read my mythology books.

Wrong hero Sisyphus tricked Thanatos into his own chains in Tartarus (that Zeus planned for him) thus preventing death (until Ares got pissed off at the deathless carnage)

Though you might be talking more about where Heracles beat him to gain the right to revive Alkestis. Which is the same idea, but with less pinning for a year

DeffDred wrote:
Mortarion is not a daemon.

He is the avatar of Nurgle. He is DEATH ITSELF.

Draigo is not a Space Marine, he is the will of the Emperor made manifest, the tip of his spear, the gauntlet about his fist.


See how silly that sounds?

BlaxicanX wrote:-Maugan Ra has never killed anyone of note.

Nah, he just held an entire planet from a Hive Fleet by himself, totally not noteworthy at all.

Harriticus wrote:The Draigo vs Mortarion thing is worse because it's more embarrassing to an established villain (carving his name in his heart? really?), and also because there's no indication was anyone other then Draigo after he killed the previous Supreme Grand Master. If they expanded upon it rather then making it a little blurb it might be more passable.

Yep, a Grand Master and the Supreme Grand Master were totally just milling about all alone and were then rudely interrupted by a Daemon Primarch.

Harriticus wrote:I would improve it by making his feats a bit less ridiculous and make it seem like he's not just rampaging around the Warp with impunity, so much so that Daemons now seem to be avoiding him altogether. Have the fortress of M'Kachen reappear as if nothing happened a short time after Draigo destroys it. Have him lose an arm and show a struggle. Right now he's basically unstoppable.

The stuff DOES return. The Codex even says so.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:-Maugan Ra has never killed anyone of note.

Nah, he just held an entire planet from a Hive Fleet by himself, totally not noteworthy at all.

It was a splinter fleet from Leviathan, not a Hive Fleet, and it was of unknown size and force disposition.

Try again, sir.

BlaxicanX wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:-Maugan Ra has never killed anyone of note.

Nah, he just held an entire planet from a Hive Fleet by himself, totally not noteworthy at all.

It was a splinter fleet from Leviathan, not a Hive Fleet, and it was of unknown size and force disposition.

Try again, sir.

Hive Fleet Gorgon was a Splinter Fleet yet it alone wrecked Tau to devastating number.

Most splinter fleets comprise as few as a dozen Hive Ships. Yet even a dozen of these massive bioships are more than capable of overruning a life-bearing world and harvesting all of its biomass so that it can grow into an even larger and more dangerous threat.

If he beat a Splinter Fleet, that's pretty powerful, even if it was JUST ONE HIVE SHIP

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:-Maugan Ra has never killed anyone of note.

Nah, he just held an entire planet from a Hive Fleet by himself, totally not noteworthy at all.

It was a splinter fleet from Leviathan, not a Hive Fleet, and it was of unknown size and force disposition.

Try again, sir.

Hive Fleet Gorgon was a Splinter Fleet yet it alone wrecked Tau to devastating number.

Most splinter fleets comprise as few as a dozen Hive Ships. Yet even a dozen of these massive bioships are more than capable of overruning a life-bearing world and harvesting all of its biomass so that it can grow into an even larger and more dangerous threat.

If he beat a Splinter Fleet, that's pretty powerful, even if it was JUST ONE HIVE SHIP

And yet we're not talking about Gorgon, thus that is irrelevant.

As well, by your own cited source, it says"most" splinter fleets have X amount of forces, not all, to which I again point out that the actual size and disposition of the fleet Ra destroyed is undefined.

Try again, sir.

BlaxicanX wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:-Maugan Ra has never killed anyone of note.

Nah, he just held an entire planet from a Hive Fleet by himself, totally not noteworthy at all.

It was a splinter fleet from Leviathan, not a Hive Fleet, and it was of unknown size and force disposition.

Try again, sir.

Hive Fleet Gorgon was a Splinter Fleet yet it alone wrecked Tau to devastating number.

Most splinter fleets comprise as few as a dozen Hive Ships. Yet even a dozen of these massive bioships are more than capable of overruning a life-bearing world and harvesting all of its biomass so that it can grow into an even larger and more dangerous threat.

If he beat a Splinter Fleet, that's pretty powerful, even if it was JUST ONE HIVE SHIP

And yet we're not talking about Gorgon, thus that is irrelevant.

As well, by your own cited source, it says"most" splinter fleets have X amount of forces, not all, to which I again point out that the actual size and disposition of the fleet Ra destroyed is undefined.

Try again, sir.

You apparently missed my last sentence, so I'll reiterate it because you concentrated on the strawman portion that you could use to try and ignore it. Even if it was just ONE HIVE SHIP (Which wouldn't make it a Splinter Fleet, but I digress) He beat back an entire ship that had already conquered his squads, and was already across the entire world.

Strawman doesn't mean what you think it means

So what? You're acting like he was in a room filled with a million tyranids and he killed every one of them one by one while evading their attacks like a Jedi, or something. If they were spread across an entire planet then obviously he wasn't fighting the whole swarm by itself, only specific pockets of them at a time, which makes perfect sense. We all know Yriel utterly broke the back of a real Hive Fleet, Kraken, purely by killing a single synapse creature- the Hive Tyrant.

It's more than feasible that Maugan Ra did the exact same thing. No where in the fluff does it state that he single-handily annihilated that entire splinter fleet- only that he drove it off the planet. Please don't exaggerate the feat. It's impressive, but not as impressive as people in this thread are trying to make it.

We all know Yriel utterly broke the back of a real Hive Fleet, Kraken, purely by killing a single synapse creature- the Hive Tyrant.
It's more than feasible that Maugan Ra did the exact same thing. No where in the fluff does it state that he single-handily annihilated that entire splinter fleet- only that he drove it off the planet. Please don't exaggerate the feat. It's impressive, but not as impressive as people in this thread are trying to make it.

First off, he was backed up by an entire Eldar Fleet and army, he wasn't by himself all by his lonesome. Two they beat it's hive ships in orbit completely before landing, thus eliminating the main norn queens and the main synapse that could be provided from orbit, not to mention eliminating all chance of reinforcement and more synapse creatures to be provided. Three he beat the modified hive tyrant on the planet with a special Spear of Twilight, which damned himself and was the only thing that could harm the thing at the time.

The main thing that broke was the fact that the Entire Hive Fleet in Orbit was Destroyed first, than the Hive Tyrant on the planet Lysander

Meugan Ra drove off an entire splinter fleet (or one ship) By himself, no reinforcements, no Eldar Corsairs backing him up from the skies driving off the pods and the actual ship itself.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

DeffDred wrote:
Mortarion is not a daemon.

He is the avatar of Nurgle. He is DEATH ITSELF.

Draigo is not a Space Marine, he is the will of the Emperor made manifest, the tip of his spear, the gauntlet about his fist.


See how silly that sounds?.

Yeah it does sound silly because Draigo is just a GK. He isn't someone greated by a demi-god to become a demi-god and then granted god-hood by a god.

Mortarion is death itself. I'm not making a bold claim. I'm just telling you how it is.

"...that one whose name is Death itself; Mortarion. He send the tendrils of his horror and disease through all the dimensions, harvesting fear and dispair for his master, the God of Decay. His heinous touch reaches through the Aethyr, contaminating all it passes. I have seen the strange and vast vessels that sail the Aethyr's tides, and I have witnessed the effect of Mortarion's touch upon them." Liber Chaotica Volume 3 - Nurgle.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:First off, he was backed up by an entire Eldar Fleet and army, he wasn't by himself all by his lonesome. Two they beat it's hive ships in orbit completely before landing, thus eliminating the main norn queens and the main synapse that could be provided from orbit, not to mention eliminating all chance of reinforcement and more synapse creatures to be provided. Three he beat the modified hive tyrant on the planet with a special Spear of Twilight, which damned himself and was the only thing that could harm the thing at the time.

The main thing that broke was the fact that the Entire Hive Fleet in Orbit was Destroyed first, than the Hive Tyrant on the planet Lysander

Meugan Ra drove off an entire splinter fleet (or one ship) By himself, no reinforcements, no Eldar Corsairs backing him up from the skies driving off the pods and the actual ship itself.

No, actually. That's incorrect. The fluff makes it clear that while the Corsairs destroying the Hive Fleet's ships cut off the Tyranids reinforcements, there was already more than enough Tyranids already on the Craftworld to easily slaughter the remnants of Iyanden as well as Yriel's reinforcements. The Eldar had won the battle in Space, but the Tyranids were still winning on the Craftworld itself by a huge margin, and there was nothing the Corsairs could do about it. The only reason Iyanden survived Kraken was because Yriel managed to kill the Hive Tyrant, which single handily crippled the Tyranid forces on the Craftworld. By the time Yriel engaged the Tyrant, the Eldar battlelines had been completely overrun, so no, he wasn't "supported by an army" when he killed the Tyrant. He basically just cut a swathe through the Tyran'ts guard and then killed it in single combat, and that ended the fight.

Similarly, if a force that's infinitely smaller than Kraken is spread out over an entire planet, then obviously the number of Tyranids doesn't matter. Maugan Ra need only fight the main Synapse creature on the planet and whatever Tyranids are surrounding it at the time. Again, while that's obviously highly impressive, it isn't nearly as impressive as people are making it out to be, especially for an immortal Phoenix Lord who's been fighting for like 30,000 years.

Just Dave wrote:

Why does he remain Grand Master of a Chapter when he's not there?

The CEO of a company doesn't get replaced when his Executives handle everything...

Iranna.

BlaxicanX wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:First off, he was backed up by an entire Eldar Fleet and army, he wasn't by himself all by his lonesome. Two they beat it's hive ships in orbit completely before landing, thus eliminating the main norn queens and the main synapse that could be provided from orbit, not to mention eliminating all chance of reinforcement and more synapse creatures to be provided. Three he beat the modified hive tyrant on the planet with a special Spear of Twilight, which damned himself and was the only thing that could harm the thing at the time.

The main thing that broke was the fact that the Entire Hive Fleet in Orbit was Destroyed first, than the Hive Tyrant on the planet Lysander

Meugan Ra drove off an entire splinter fleet (or one ship) By himself, no reinforcements, no Eldar Corsairs backing him up from the skies driving off the pods and the actual ship itself.

No, actually. That's incorrect. The fluff makes it clear that while the Corsairs destroying the Hive Fleet's ships cut off the Tyranids reinforcements, there was already more than enough Tyranids already on the Craftworld to easily slaughter the remnants of Iyanden as well as Yriel's reinforcements. The Eldar had won the battle in Space, but the Tyranids were still winning on the Craftworld itself by a huge margin, and there was nothing the Corsairs could do about it. The only reason Iyanden survived Kraken was because Yriel managed to kill the Hive Tyrant, which single handily crippled the Tyranid forces on the Craftworld. By the time Yriel engaged the Tyrant, the Eldar battlelines had been completely overrun, so no, he wasn't "supported by an army" when he killed the Tyrant. He basically just cut a swathe through the Tyran'ts guard and then killed it in single combat, and that ended the fight.

Similarly, if a force that's infinitely smaller than Kraken is spread out over an entire planet, then obviously the number of Tyranids doesn't matter. Maugan Ra need only fight the main Synapse creature on the planet and whatever Tyranids are surrounding it at the time. Again, while that's obviously highly impressive, it isn't nearly as impressive as people are making it out to be, especially for an immortal Phoenix Lord who's been fighting for like 30,000 years.

Not quite, clearly states in the fluff (funnily enough I read that story a few hours ago) that the tyranid survivors were hunted and elimated, although it does state it was a one sided battle it is hardly 'that ended the fight' unless the remaining, which would be a LOT, tyranids put the white flag up?, it even states the remaining tyranids revert back to their base instinct.

You are assuming you know the size of the tyranids on Stormvald you dont and nor does anyone else, but it the other fluff it shows how adaptable the tyranids are and how they view the gaunts as cannon fodder, the synpase creature wont show himself until he thinks he will win.

It's amusing that people are still trying to use logic to either support or go against the Draigo bit of background. It's quite obviously meant to be banzai, batman-KAPOW, bible-epic rolled into one, and not taken literally. Everything we know about the warp, as described in every piece of background in every book where it has been described, has shown the warp to be utterly inimical to life - read any one of the accounts of ships where the gellar field has failed even for a moment, and that is only with partial exposure, and the results are deadly. In Deliverance Lost (to cite one example) where a ship went into the warp unprotected - in the chaotic matter of the immaterium the crew are killed horribly in moments. So, 'bestriding the warp' is essentially the equivalent of going for a dip in molten rock, wearing a pair of speedos.

So, I think the key to 'repairing' Draigo's fluff is to realise that it's not meant to be taken literally. Once you do that, in the same way that Marneus Calgar didn't really stop an entire Ork army on his own for a day and a night, and that it is the kind of thing that would be whispered in the space marine-playground between excitable initiates, then the whole thing becomes easier to digest. To view it in any other way is laughable, and cheapens the whole 40k universe and background.

Personally thought, and I think even viewed in that context, I think it goes too far. As though over-excitable 13-year old fans had been sat around a table drunk, and spent hours trying to come up with the most ridiculous, over the top example of badassery possible, no matter how improbable.

Question:
What is the most inhospitable place in the universe? More dangerous than the core of a supernova, more feared than death itself?
Answer: The warp.

Question:
Who are the hardest baddasses in the galaxy?
Answer: The Primarchs. Make it one of the daemon ones, so he's immortal like. And, not one of the wimpy ones like Lorgar. Make it Mortarion, who has often been depicted as death/the grim reaper himself in daemon form. That's right, so he has basically killed death. And, even though he has been a daemon for ten thousand years, Mortarion still has a heart. Which heart by the way? It doesn't matter, but he carves his name onto it, with a swiss army knife. Then he leaves him, 'just'.

As a rule of thumb, if you can imagine reading it in a Black Library novel, then it's fair to assume that it could be a historical account. Let's face it, if this bit of background was written in anything other than a shiny and expensive codex, and in particular if it had been posted on this website as fanfic, then it would get absolutely ripped to pieces. The only rational response to it, if you consider yourself to be a fan of the 40k universe at all, is to laugh along with it and recognise it for what it is; a ridiculous series of hyperbole, not meant to be taken seriously, and surely designed to enrage internet fan communities everywhere

Okay so the short version:

Draigo gets yanked into the Warp by that one Daemon. After putting up one hell of a fight in the Warp, he finally falls. However, the Emperor - in his corpse state - is able to partially secure Draigo's soul and creates him into a sort of eternal champion. Now, this "angel" (daemon really) of the Emperor's silently battles the spawn of chaos, damned to eternally repeat his last moments of life, always to fall, always to rise again to resume his battle. At times when the Immaterium rips it's way into the Materium, Draigo can be seen keeping occupied many a daemon in battle, staunching the flow of chaos just enough that the Imperium has hope to close up these rifts. The Grey Knights, knowing full well what Draigo has become, have sworn off appointing a new Grand Master for as long as this shell of Draigo battles chaos, he is their leader and inspiration reminding them that not even in death does duty end.

Okay, here is how Draigo should end:

Lord Kaldor Draigo felt his presence well before he saw the warmonger come. Still, he gripped his sword all the more tightly.

The Fields of Pleasure were simply one more daemon warped land that Lord Kaldor Draigo had to cross again for the hundredth time. Each sinuous stalk of wild flower wafted with the twisted pleasures of the God of Pleasure. Flairs of color danced in the sky above, and the menagerie of twisted abominations that flitted through the long grass moaned in desire and frolicked in unabashed bliss. What few sentient minions of Slaanesh were around knew well to steer clear of the Grey Knight lord as he stood atop a hillock, the perfume scented breezes wafting around the mighty mortal. His personal conviction so strong, the landscape of changing tactile senses never bothered him.

If he wanted to, the land would burn under his righteous might. Everything would twist to his immense psychic powers and quash under his master crafted weapons. The Emperor’s hand could reach out and smite anything Draigo wanted.

But the Chapter Master learned constraint and patience in his permanent wandering of the Warp. Giving in to personal vices would only play into the hands of one or more of the Chaos Gods, using him as an instrument in their Great Game. Destruction was fleeting here, and one or more desecrated landscapes would replace the one that the warrior destroyed.

The presence finally appeared as a silhouette against the mad skyline, persistently drudging towards Draigo, hours away from the Chapter Master’s location yet inexorably coming. He emanated hate and rage that spanned eons; it would have done the Lord of Battle proud to see such brimming animosity. But Draigo knew that was only a small fraction of the man’s real desire. It wasn’t just murderous rage that drove the ancient warrior. His plans to upend the Imperium spoke of an intellect far beyond normal web weavers. His swath of death and destruction fed the maggots and worms that grew in his wake. And above all that, his desire for revenge drove him, pushed him continuously on a singular path that would do nothing less than conquer the galaxy and destroy every fabrication created by the Emperor.

Lord Kaldor Draigo would not allow that.

Hours passed and the sky shifted from day to night three times while the Grey Knight waited, the figure growing larger and larger as he approached. His ornamented terminator armor becoming the first distinct outlines he could see. The amazing and deathly daemonic weapon that always danced through the bodies of enemies and soaked in their blood came unsheathed not too long after. And his eyes. When Draigo finally locked stares with the dark warlord, he knew he saw the end of everything within, of a pain that went far beyond mortal memory and transcended anything that the Grey Knight ever thought a human could possess.

Draigo stood less than twenty paces from the man as he stared up the small incline that Draigo perched upon, the pink sun dipping in the horizon for the fourth time since the Grey Knight entered Slaanesh’s realm.

“You know I will not allow you to pursue your agenda, Abbadon,” said the Grey Knight.

The Warmaster smiled a rictus grin. “Heh, you think you can stop my grand design? Why do you think I sought you out? Why would I find a single person trapped within the warp and unable to influence anything outside his cage?”

“Because you knew I could still stop you before you even began. You know my cage opens from time to time, and I use that window of opportunity very well.”

Abbadon barked a laugh. “Hah! The cage only opens when my masters desire to play with their dog. Do you think anything you have done when free was not seen by Tzeentch or fed the needs of any of the other gods?”

The armored space marine shook his head. “Your false conviction clouds you from the truth. You eat the lies of the Lord of Lies, and then come before me thinking that what they whisper in your ear will come to fruition? What happened during your last Crusade, Warmaster?”

The Chaos champion’s smile wavered into a grin and his eyes flickered briefly in a wince. Draigo knew that the last attempt to secure the Cadian gate and unleash hell across the expanse of the Imperium ended in stalemate and then disaster. It took the combined might of the Segmentum Obscurus to drive back the forces of Chaos, but it was accomplished after much bloodshed had occurred.

“As always, it was planned out,” Abbadon said. “Defeat is but momentary for me, as I have outlived all mere mortals and slew all my rivals before my wrath. Those I let live are no consequence to me, and things left unconquered are done by my grand design.

“That is why I come to you today, dear Draigo.” His smile grew wider as he brought his sword Drach'nyento bear, the daemon contained within growing thirsty for souls.

“You will not kill me today, and you will not leave here to continue your plans.” Draigo brought his own mighty weapon to bear, the Titansword.

In one final maniacal burst of laughter, Abbadon leaped into the air, raising his massive sword to strike in one hand. His other armored gauntlet with sharp talons popped off several bolter rounds in midflight, smacking into the nigh impenetrable storm shield that Draigo raised.

Roaring in defiance, the Grey Knight lit his sword with azure flames, conjuring his massive psychic energy for the first strike. Planting his feet, he pulled back and swung his own sword, its tip raking the ground as it rose to meet the strike of the Warmaster.

Purified metal pounded against unholy metal as the two swords met, the weight of Abbadon’s fall and heavy terminator armor pushed Draigo back. Getting back on his feet, the fallen space marine wasted no time in executing his next attack, spinning with sword and clawed hand as he began to assail the floundering Chapter Master.

But the holy warrior of the Imperium was not easy prey. The initial strike over, he began parrying the Warmaster’s every assault, his shield coming up to pick off the sword and his Titansword to fend off the claw. He kept a defensive stance, assessing his foe as Abbadon struck time and time again without finding a flaw in his defense.

Snarling, Abbadon executed a roundhouse swing with his sword, the massive weapon flaring with purple energy as he sought the killing blow. He was met with the blazing shield of the Grey Knight, its emblazed sigil flaring into blinding light as the weapon contacted, and then was repulsed by the gifted buffer.

Draigo wasted no time, and stabbed forward with his sword, plunging it into the terminator armor of the Warmaster. At the last second, Abbadon grasped the Titansword with his clawed hand, the Talons of Horus, and through sheer strength, prevented the weapon from diving in deeper. Draigo pushed harder, causing the Chaos traitor to bend to his knees, his sword arm paralyzed and his other hand barely keeping the sword from inflicting a mortal wound. Both men locked stares, determination and bitterness crossing Abbadon’s face as he looked into the visored visage of the Grey Knight Chapter Master. Both of them knew what was to come next.

“I know you will not yield, corrupted one. Destroying you bodily will not end you either. I will enter your mind and strip it clean, killing you in soul before I rend your body asunder. You are a fool for challenging me,” said Draigo as his entire body became a beacon of pure light, his psychic powers rippling outward as he reached deep inside of himself to draw out all that he was, all that he fought for, and all that he intended to do to end the threat of the Warmaster before he could launch his latest plan to destroy the Imperium.

Abbadon’s mouth trickled with blood. And yet he smiled widely. He dropped his sword while Draigo became an incandescent bonfire of righteous might, and reached into a side pouch for a small device, pulling out a cube of pitch black nothingness.

“And you are a fool for thinking I came to kill you. I intend to use you instead.”

Too late, Draigo saw the miniature weapon, and tried to pull back his sword amidst the swirl of fire and energy that swirled like a tempest between the two of them. How did Abbadon manage to acquire such a device he thought as his sword would not budge, the Chaos Warmaster’s grip still remaining strong.

Abbadon tossed the tiny cube with his free hand, and the thing smacked Draigo in his face. Instantaneously, the weapon flared with anti- light, darkness spawned from the strongest black holes and unholier than any nightmare conjured by mortal sin. It consumed the emanations of Draigo, and then consumed the Chapter Master itself as the darkness leaked into the armor and body of the stricken man. Draigo’s body shook and shuddered as it attempted to fight the encroaching darkness, but it was futile. The cube was attracted to powerful psychic emanations, completely harmless against those without any psychic capabilities. To a man like Draigo, it was a potent weapon more powerful than any Daemon spawned creation was capable of doing to the indomitable man.

With one final shudder, Lord Kaldor Draigo slumped. Abbadon pulled the sword out of his gut and wrenched it from his foe’s limp hand and tossed it aside. Rising, he stood over the dull eyed Draigo as the cube remained firmly fastened to the defeated man’s head.

“The Oblivion Cube was supposed to be the Necrotyr’s final answer to the threat of the Warp millions of years ago. It was to fuel a device the size of a planetary system, sundering the link between the Warp and reality for all time. At the end of the War of Heaven, the Eldar Gods spirited the core of the weapon away, hiding it from time and space itself so no one may ever use it.”

“Tzeentch however saw where it was hidden. Nigh infinite strings of fate were pulled so that the chance would come for me to obtain the cube. I did not hesitate.”

Draigo’s eyes shifted upward, gaining a glimmer of consciousness as his body still did not respond.

Abbadon laughed. “You will not die, as the device was never meant to be used without being contained within a greater weapon. But for my needs, the condensed essence of a dozen black holes is sufficient enough for me to suck out every ounce of psychic energy that you wield. With it, I can go forward with my plans to destroy the Imperium…and it will be all thanks to your own power!”

The Grey Knight Chapter Master, the strongest space marine in all the living Imperium, managed to twitch a single finger as his determination fought against the paralysis, his body and mind unable to break the mental lock encasing him.

The Warmaster grabbed the lifeless champion and pulled his head up to eye level. “It is futile Draigo. You cannot escape the Oblivion Cube. So long as you are glued to it, you’re incapable of doing anything. But in order for it to work, I need you alive and attached to the device. So…”

With one heave, Abbadon hoisted Draigo’s body upon his shoulder. Turning, the Chaos Warmaster walked back the way he came.

“You will be coming with me,” he continued. “Since I still have need of you, I will be giving you a front row seat to the end. Not only will you be the cause of it, but you will watch every single second of my grand design play out. And all you can do is watch, watch as I do what Horus could not and take everything the Emperor ever made and turn it to dust.”

Draigo raged, yelling and screaming inside the prison that was his mind, completely and utterly helpless as he sagged across the back of the man who promised to end everything that the Grey Knight fought to protect.

Rewrite it in language that doesn't make Draigo out to be DA BADDEST OF DA BAD DUDES and instead plays on the sisyphean nature of his story.

Instead of it coming off like an author's literary masturbation to his own creation, it could sound like the actual tragic story it is.

Fanboys wouldn't need to defend it if the concept had been properly executed. It's actually a pretty good idea, but is written in such terrible language that instead focuses on Draigo's achievements instead of the hopeless nature of his struggle.

MarkyMark wrote:Not quite, clearly states in the fluff (funnily enough I read that story a few hours ago) that the tyranid survivors were hunted and elimated, although it does state it was a one sided battle it is hardly 'that ended the fight' unless the remaining, which would be a LOT, tyranids put the white flag up?, it even states the remaining tyranids revert back to their base instinct.

I stated that the death of the Tyrant "broke the back" of the Tyranid forces on the Craftworld, thus, everything you've said here is irrelevant to my post.

You are assuming you know the size of the tyranids on Stormvald you dont

I specifically said in one of my posts above that we don't know how big the Tyranid force was on Stormvlad, so you're being rather disingenuous here.

but it the other fluff it shows how adaptable the tyranids are and how they view the gaunts as cannon fodder, the synpase creature wont show himself until he thinks he will win.

Maugan Ra was the only enemy opposing the Tyranid on the entire planet. That is obviously a scenario in which the Tyranid would "think it's won". You're speaking nonsense here, sir.

Doesnt need the language changed, just expanded same as maugan ra with the whole stopped a splinter of a hive fleet, so yes i agree the execution was bad, it makes it sound like he did it cause he could and thats that.

Pacific wrote:It's amusing that people are still trying to use logic to either support or go against the Draigo bit of background. It's quite obviously meant to be banzai, batman-KAPOW, bible-epic rolled into one, and not taken literally. Everything we know about the warp, as described in every piece of background in every book where it has been described, has shown the warp to be utterly inimical to life - read any one of the accounts of ships where the gellar field has failed even for a moment, and that is only with partial exposure, and the results are deadly. In Deliverance Lost (to cite one example) where a ship went into the warp unprotected - in the chaotic matter of the immaterium the crew are killed horribly in moments. So, 'bestriding the warp' is essentially the equivalent of going for a dip in molten rock, wearing a pair of speedos.

Not quite. In the second book of the Night Lords trilogy, one of the Astral Claw traitors gets caught outside of a ship during warp-flight. He isn't killed- merely transformed into a Nurgle-corrupted beast.

So, while the Warp is obviously hostile to living creatures, an individual can certainly survive in it, with the right powers backing him. That would fit the theory that Draigo is being aided by the Emperor or even the Chaos Gods themselves.

I'd use the childhood prayer-wish-fulfilment angle.

"Please grud, make it didn't happen."

The only way to fix the Draigo fluff is to make it never have been. but I say this of pretty much all fluff post 2nd ed.

Draigo awakens to find that all the time he spent killing what he thought were Daemons, were actually Space Marines and Humans

Then the hand of Tzeentch's champion pats him on the shoulder, and says "Well Done"

Easiest way to fix Draigo fluff would be to just make him an Ultramarine. You wouldn't even need to change any of the fluff that's already there. All Ward would have to do is add a single sentence to the end of Draigo's excerpt: "Secretly, he was an Ultramarine." Done. We'd all reaad that and go "Oooooh, this all makes sense now."

Harriticus wrote:That was 109 Grey Knights, of which only 13 survived. Plus as you see in The Emperor's Gift, even that victory was barely won.

And how many were at the Draigo/Mortarion battle? You really think Mortarion would enter the real world for anything other than a truly major incursion? You really think the Supreme Grandmaster of the Grey Knights was just going for a walk by himself? The event was clearly a major battle between the two factions

Right now he's basically unstoppable.

But useless. All that power, but he's completely impotent. That's much more interesting to me.

BlaxicanX wrote:[ I again point out that the actual size and disposition of the fleet Ra destroyed is undefined.

How could the size of the force he destroyed possibly matter? Think of the smallest possible splinter fleet: A single ship. Now explain to me how on earth a single person is going to be able to destroy that ship?

Pacific wrote:Everything we know about the warp, as described in every piece of background in every book where it has been described, has shown the warp to be utterly inimical to life

So what assumptions can we draw that?

That he violates every known law? Probably not.

That it's allegorical or mythological in nature? Nothing to suggest that.

That the Chaos Gods want him to be there? The only possible explanation, IMO.

Ok, I'm fine with Draigo's perpetual struggles in the warp. It's a stalemate essentially. But, the Mortarion bit is over the top. I believe in the codex he is described as "single handedly smashing through the primarchs body guard and bearing him to the ground, where he carved Geronimo's name into his black heart." Or something like that. That, that is wrong. No one tackles a primarch. Not only that, but to hold him still and sign his heart? I think a coalition of like 20 chapter masters managed to RESTRAIN a daemonic Fulgrim, and lost several members at that time. And that was because Fulgrim basically let them.

Here's what it should be. Kaldor Draigo leads a strike Force of Paladins that overcome the bodyguard, and in the end Draigo manages to wound Mortarion by throwing his sword into his chest. The resulting banishment creates a warp portal that sucks them both into the warp. Of the other Paladins, only Draigo survives.

Im hoping the "write his name" part is just to make it sound cool. I could understand, with maybe 50 paladins distracting Mortarion, Draigo sneaking in a blow that knicked his heart.

Kaldor wrote:How could the size of the force he destroyed possibly matter? Think of the smallest possible splinter fleet: A single ship. Now explain to me how on earth a single person is going to be able to destroy that ship?

Ever play against Tyranid armies?

As Hans Gruber would say......

Shoot....
The....
Synapse...
Creatures. ........
( it was even easier before as they had way less SC, mostly Hive Tyrants.

jifel wrote: I think a coalition of like 20 chapter masters managed to RESTRAIN a daemonic Fulgrim, and lost several members at that time. And that was because Fulgrim basically let them.

Where did you hear that? I mean Fulgrim's a badass (knocked out Ferrus Manus, later cut his head off, strangled an Avatar of Khaine to death, as a daemon slit Girlyman's throat, and lives on a pleasure world, a true pimp), but as far as I know he hasn't left the warp since he poisoned Guilleman.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LunaHound wrote:

Kaldor wrote:How could the size of the force he destroyed possibly matter? Think of the smallest possible splinter fleet: A single ship. Now explain to me how on earth a single person is going to be able to destroy that ship?

Ever play against Tyranid armies?

Shoot
The
Synapse
Creatures.
( it was even easier before as they had way less SC, mostly Hive Tyrants.

Knowing him he probably picked off the synapses creatures from hilarious ranges and if one assumes he has to kill everything, spends the next few months hunting down the remnants of the hive fleet.

BlaxicanX wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:Not quite, clearly states in the fluff (funnily enough I read that story a few hours ago) that the tyranid survivors were hunted and elimated, although it does state it was a one sided battle it is hardly 'that ended the fight' unless the remaining, which would be a LOT, tyranids put the white flag up?, it even states the remaining tyranids revert back to their base instinct.

I stated that the death of the Tyrant "broke the back" of the Tyranid forces on the Craftworld, thus, everything you've said here is irrelevant to my post.

You are assuming you know the size of the tyranids on Stormvald you dont

I specifically said in one of my posts above that we don't know how big the Tyranid force was on Stormvlad, so you're being rather disingenuous here.

but it the other fluff it shows how adaptable the tyranids are and how they view the gaunts as cannon fodder, the synpase creature wont show himself until he thinks he will win.

Maugan Ra was the only enemy opposing the Tyranid on the entire planet. That is obviously a scenario in which the Tyranid would "think it's won". You're speaking nonsense here, sir.

Your exact words were "He basically just cut a swathe through the Tyran'ts guard and then killed it in single combat, and that ended the fight." As I said it hardly "ended the fight"

Then you go on to say Maugan Ra would only need to kill one synpase creature to end the fight without knowing the size of the TYranid army you cannot know how many synpase creatures there would be

I disagree with your last point as well your telling me they will send the biggest creature to consume Maugan ra when most of the fluff states they use the Gaunts as cannon fodder thats hardly nonsense

Also, would the nids really bother sending their most nasty bug against 1 guy?

Anyway, after reading for a bit, this is how I'd repair it.
Draigo isn't actually Draigo.

Long Version, Tzeentch (Spelling) wants to control the Grey Knights, but they can't possess the Grand Master. Instead, they lock him up.
He then replaces him with a Daemon on the battlefeild. This is a strong Lord of Change so it can withstand the wards the Grey Knights use.
Being a daemon, though, it can't last for ever in the Materium, and, with the Grey Knight's wards weakening it, returns to the Immaterium.
All that stuff about Draigo doing all that stuff is just:
a. Draigo bragging, cuz he's like that
b. Draigo's daily exercise Tzeentch gives him, even prisoners are entitled to 1 hr of exercise everyday!
c. Made up stories by the Lord of Change to make the other Grey Knights respect him.

Matt.Kingsley wrote:Also, would the nids really bother sending their most nasty bug against 1 guy?

Anyway, after reading for a bit, this is how I'd repair it.
Draigo isn't actually Draigo.

Long Version, Tzeentch (Spelling) wants to control the Grey Knights, but they can't possess the Grand Master. Instead, they lock him up.
He then replaces him with a Daemon on the battlefeild. This is a strong Lord of Change so it can withstand the wards the Grey Knights use.
Being a daemon, though, it can't last for ever in the Materium, and, with the Grey Knight's wards weakening it, returns to the Immaterium.
All that stuff about Draigo doing all that stuff is just:
a. Draigo bragging, cuz he's like that
b. Draigo's daily exercise Tzeentch gives him, even prisoners are entitled to 1 hr of exercise everyday!
c. Made up stories by the Lord of Change to make the other Grey Knights respect him.

That sounds stupid "Hurr, the most incorruptible humans to chaos are all actually being controlled by chaos hurr." Just take it at face value, he is trapped in the warp, can never escape for more than a battle, and everything he does in there is meaningless. You killed all of Slaanesh's personal handmaidens? Well they just respawn back at Slaanesh's pleasure palace. You just stabbed a greater daemon in the face? He just respawns with no injuries. The whole point behind Draigo is that his battle is futile, whenever he wins a battle in the warp it means nothing, he isn't saving lives, he isn't stopping the daemon for good, he is simply forcing it to respawn back at their base. I see chaos as trying to corrupt him by simply breaking him slowly, they aren't directly controlling him, they aren't hoping to bring down the Grey Knights, they are just chaos gods, and this is how they roll. Plus a chaos grey knight would be a very powerful force alone.

I would make him the son of a mortal and a greater daemon, that way you could actually explain his stats.

Make it so that Mortarion was proving a point to the grey knights as he and his legion simply get back up, re-attach their nurgly limbs and walk back into the warp laughing with nothing changed.

Make it clear that his actions in the warp are favored by the gods rather than abhorred. The guys starts killing Khorne's daemons, Khorne is gonna want him to get some more skulls. He's not that picky. Slannesh reveling in Draigo's devotion to the emperor as he goes through the temptations. etc

Buttons wrote:

jifel wrote: I think a coalition of like 20 chapter masters managed to RESTRAIN a daemonic Fulgrim, and lost several members at that time. And that was because Fulgrim basically let them.

Where did you hear that? I mean Fulgrim's a badass (knocked out Ferrus Manus, later cut his head off, strangled an Avatar of Khaine to death, as a daemon slit Girlyman's throat, and lives on a pleasure world, a true pimp), but as far as I know he hasn't left the warp since he poisoned Guilleman.

It's in The Primarchs anthology. Long story short:

Best way to repair the Draigo fluff? Change it so that he was able to banish Mortarion, but remove any talk about carving his name in any organs, that bit is just juvenile in tone. Then change the story so that it was the banishment of Mortarion that caused him to be pulled into the Warp, that changes things so that he was still able to take out a daemon primarch, but the primarch still got in the last hit, makes it more of a pyrrhic victory.
For bonus points they could give Draigo the daemon special rule and force him to be deployed from reserve and deep striking (with adjustments points and to rules so he can't mishap). That would set things up so that he's a GK Legion of the Damned (or whatever those SM dudes are) type guy, and gets rid of the issue of how he is able to walk around the warp without being shredded into his component atoms.

daveNYC wrote:

Buttons wrote:

jifel wrote: I think a coalition of like 20 chapter masters managed to RESTRAIN a daemonic Fulgrim, and lost several members at that time. And that was because Fulgrim basically let them.

Where did you hear that? I mean Fulgrim's a badass (knocked out Ferrus Manus, later cut his head off, strangled an Avatar of Khaine to death, as a daemon slit Girlyman's throat, and lives on a pleasure world, a true pimp), but as far as I know he hasn't left the warp since he poisoned Guilleman.

It's in The Primarchs anthology. Long story short:

Spoiler:

Post Istvaan, a bunch of the honchos of the EC have decided that Fulgrim isn't really Fulgrim, so they jump him, tie him up, and torture him to try and kick the daemon out. At the end of the story Fulgrim breaks out of his restraints with such ease that it's obvious that he was just toying with them. And yeah, he beats everyone down without even breaking a sweat, and that's with him holding back so he can monologue and because he doesn't actually want to kill everyone.

Best way to repair the Draigo fluff? Change it so that he was able to banish Mortarion, but remove any talk about carving his name in any organs, that bit is just juvenile in tone. Then change the story so that it was the banishment of Mortarion that caused him to be pulled into the Warp, that changes things so that he was still able to take out a daemon primarch, but the primarch still got in the last hit, makes it more of a pyrrhic victory.
For bonus points they could give Draigo the daemon special rule and force him to be deployed from reserve and deep striking (with adjustments points and to rules so he can't mishap). That would set things up so that he's a GK Legion of the Damned (or whatever those SM dudes are) type guy, and gets rid of the issue of how he is able to walk around the warp without being shredded into his component atoms.

Basically, this. This would be good. Mayben not a daemon rules wise, but yeah make him die and go back into the warp. Then again, they already have the one dude who randomly comes back to life.

Surtur wrote:I would make him the son of a mortal and a greater daemon, that way you could actually explain his stats.

Make it so that Mortarion was proving a point to the grey knights as he and his legion simply get back up, re-attach their nurgly limbs and walk back into the warp laughing with nothing changed.

Make it clear that his actions in the warp are favored by the gods rather than abhorred. The guys starts killing Khorne's daemons, Khorne is gonna want him to get some more skulls. He's not that picky. Slannesh reveling in Draigo's devotion to the emperor as he goes through the temptations. etc

Yepp

Buttons wrote:

Matt.Kingsley wrote:Also, would the nids really bother sending their most nasty bug against 1 guy?

Anyway, after reading for a bit, this is how I'd repair it.
Draigo isn't actually Draigo.

Long Version, Tzeentch (Spelling) wants to control the Grey Knights, but they can't possess the Grand Master. Instead, they lock him up.
He then replaces him with a Daemon on the battlefeild. This is a strong Lord of Change so it can withstand the wards the Grey Knights use.
Being a daemon, though, it can't last for ever in the Materium, and, with the Grey Knight's wards weakening it, returns to the Immaterium.
All that stuff about Draigo doing all that stuff is just:
a. Draigo bragging, cuz he's like that
b. Draigo's daily exercise Tzeentch gives him, even prisoners are entitled to 1 hr of exercise everyday!
c. Made up stories by the Lord of Change to make the other Grey Knights respect him.

That sounds stupid "Hurr, the most incorruptible humans to chaos are all actually being controlled by chaos hurr." Just take it at face value, he is trapped in the warp, can never escape for more than a battle, and everything he does in there is meaningless. You killed all of Slaanesh's personal handmaidens? Well they just respawn back at Slaanesh's pleasure palace. You just stabbed a greater daemon in the face? He just respawns with no injuries. The whole point behind Draigo is that his battle is futile, whenever he wins a battle in the warp it means nothing, he isn't saving lives, he isn't stopping the daemon for good, he is simply forcing it to respawn back at their base. I see chaos as trying to corrupt him by simply breaking him slowly, they aren't directly controlling him, they aren't hoping to bring down the Grey Knights, they are just chaos gods, and this is how they roll. Plus a chaos grey knight would be a very powerful force alone.

It's meant to be stupid. I could never take Draigo seriously, even if I could repair his fluff!

Without drastically changing it;

Ahh, new brothers. Let me tell you the story of our grand master.
*insert bit from back of the WD re: finding the kid, replacing his name with Kaldor Draigo*.
Keep the first 2 paragraphs more or less. Third paragraph remove the heart writing bit, have him beat mortarion back from the corpse of the old GM and save the body instead, in doing so was knocked into a warp rift by the butt of Mortarioon's scythe or something.
Began his timeless crusade, despite his efforts all his successes were undone, all his advances stymied by the powers of the warp. Despite this, with faith as his sword and the emperor as his shield, he continues his battle against Chaos, and will until his dying day.

There, no heart-writing or destruction of super important things in the warp (even if they do get remade), be non-specific, let the reader imagine what he has managed to destroy and then had to watch regrow, emphasizes the pointlessness of it, no major world ending changes.

Kaldor wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:I've never understood why it's so incomprehensible that a guy who can just hurrrr his way through everything Chaos throws at him is laem.

It would be, but that's not what Draigo is.

After a titanic clash of forces, Draigo banished Mortarion. So what? That's pretty much exactly what happened during the first war for Armageddon and no one complains about that.

Later, Draigo was trapped in the Warp, where he is a toy for the Chaos gods. You think they couldn't just disintegrate him if they wanted? Of course they could.

But they don't want to. They have all eternity to make him repeat the same battles over and over, and see just how long it takes for his will to break.

Yeah but when they banished Angron, it took 100 grey knights to do it, and only a few survived. Draigo did it all by himself. And now he wanders the warp inexplicably not turning into a chaos spawn like everyone else who's ever been sucked into the warp.

Manchu wrote:It's reviled because it's relatively new. In nine years, kids will think Draigo is awesome and talk about Fifth Edition was a golden age for 40k.

Nah, in 9 years Dragio will probably be upgraded to the new Emperor.

And for those people who think Kharn doesn't have a bad side ... he kills everyone he knows! How is that not a bad side? Why anyone would bother to fight along side him is beyond me.

Have ADB write a book about the confrontation between the GK and Mortarion and its immediate aftermath, we should get something decent going then.

Harriticus wrote:Have ADB write a book about the confrontation between the GK and Mortarion and its immediate aftermath, we should get something decent going then.

I agree.

Noisy_Marine wrote:Yeah but when they banished Angron, it took 100 grey knights to do it, and only a few survived. Draigo did it all by himself.

Oh really? He was just wandering along on some planet, all by himself, and happened to see Mortarion on the other side of the street?

No.

And now he wanders the warp inexplicably not turning into a chaos spawn like everyone else who's ever been sucked into the warp.

Gosh, I wonder why? Maybe the Chaos Gods want him there?

How would I fix it?
I'd make this canon:
Maybe NSFW

While this would require a substantial "reskinning" of the Draigo backstory, I think you could make him interesting and heroic, without sounding so hyperbolically awesome.

First, remove him from the warp. Instead, Draigo has been granted access to the Black Library and has been given secret routes within the webway. People believe that he is able to vanish within the warp, and he allows this belief to spread, because it protects the truth (no one goes looking for webway portals when they think warp rifts are involved). The Harlequins and Draigo have come to some understanding, but no one, not even other members of the Order, are privy to precisely what this agreement entails.

Second, treat Mortarion's heart like the one of a mummy, embalmed in a canopic jar, or like a liche's phylactery, for those of you D&D players. Draigo didn't actually jump Mortarion and whack open his rib cage and autograph one of his organs. Instead, his superior knowledge of the daemonic allowed him to locate the Primarch's heart. Mortarion, bloated with the horrible vitality granted to one of Nurgle's servants, isn't really killable in any normal means, and banishment is, at best, a temporary solution for any daemon. However, by carving these names into Mortarion's indestructible heart, Draigo costs Mortarion a lot of 'face'. His calculated insult both enrages Mortarion, and makes him, his legion, and his patron look weaker and less capable to other Chaos powers and renegades. It's basically a calculated insult, and a big "FU" to a Traitor Primarch. Perhaps Mortarion even used his excised, but still mortal heart, as an anchor to the material world, making him impossible to banish. The carving could have been used to break or weaken this connection (or could even be part of a larger ritual working that the Grey Knights are still engaged upon).

Thus, Draigo remains pretty cool. He also has a mysterious backstory and questionable alliances (which now seem required for Grey Knights). The 'heart carving' becomes less of a moment of sheer badassery and more of an example of Grey Knights exploiting their knowledge of the Daemonic (like researching True Names).

Well, to be fair, angron IS the best fighter of the primarchs, so it's need an absurd amount of GK to banish him

Harriticus wrote:Have ADB write a book about the confrontation between the GK and Mortarion and its immediate aftermath, we should get something decent going then.

He already put down OP -Gk in Emperor's gift - but I' agree and btw very smart answer,hats down to you Sir


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Exalted Pariah wrote:Well, to be fair, angron IS the best fighter of the primarchs, so it's need an absurd amount of GK to banish him

that's just like your opinion,dude

I dont think the Draigo stuff is TOO bad, there have been other worse ones (canis wolfborn springs t mind).

All I think needs to be done is to remove the heart-carving bit, a small "scratch" would be OK. They should also make it clear that it is Draigo's Soul and not his physical body which fights eternally in the warp (It helps to explain why he can never return to the material universe). As mentioned, standing unprotected in the warp would be like jumping into a plasma reactor.

Ignore Draigo and talk about a character with "character"....

I would make him able to fly, make him 3 feet taller, and call him the II Primarch coming back to whoop the gak out of his fallen brothers

Read The Emperor's Gift. The Draigo Mortarion is about a million times worse after reading the description of the attack on Angron.

You put a primarch in a story, you better bring the grade-A writing.

daveNYC wrote:Read The Emperor's Gift. The Draigo Mortarion is about a million times worse after reading the description of the attack on Angron.

You put a primarch in a story, you better bring the grade-A writing.

Oh really, and how would you propose to do that in a single paragraph?

Kaldor wrote:

daveNYC wrote:Read The Emperor's Gift. The Draigo Mortarion is about a million times worse after reading the description of the attack on Angron.

You put a primarch in a story, you better bring the grade-A writing.

Oh really, and how would you propose to do that in a single paragraph?

Book on that matter maybe !?

DarthMarko wrote:

Kaldor wrote:

daveNYC wrote:Read The Emperor's Gift. The Draigo Mortarion is about a million times worse after reading the description of the attack on Angron.

You put a primarch in a story, you better bring the grade-A writing.

Oh really, and how would you propose to do that in a single paragraph?

Book on that matter maybe !?

Do you mean he should have written a book on the topic? He can't, it is codex fluff. Everything is a 1 paragraph thing really, it would severely limit any writer.

motyak wrote:

DarthMarko wrote:

Kaldor wrote:

daveNYC wrote:Read The Emperor's Gift. The Draigo Mortarion is about a million times worse after reading the description of the attack on Angron.

You put a primarch in a story, you better bring the grade-A writing.

Oh really, and how would you propose to do that in a single paragraph?

Book on that matter maybe !?

Do you mean he should have written a book on the topic? He can't, it is codex fluff. Everything is a 1 paragraph thing really, it would severely limit any writer.

Although... getting ADB to do a book on the subject would rock my socks off!

And mine. Our socks would be well rocked off.

Kaldor wrote:

daveNYC wrote:Read The Emperor's Gift. The Draigo Mortarion is about a million times worse after reading the description of the attack on Angron.

You put a primarch in a story, you better bring the grade-A writing.

Oh really, and how would you propose to do that in a single paragraph?

If you can't write such a huge, momumental conflict between a primarch and Draigo in a piece of writing bigger than a paragraph, don't try and cram it into one, simple.

TheRobotLol wrote:If you can't write such a huge, momumental conflict between a primarch and Draigo in a piece of writing bigger than a paragraph, don't try and cram it into one, simple.

Why not? That's how pretty much every story in 40K started. Heck, even the Horus Heresy started out as a single sentence.

Similar events to Draigo vs Morty have happened in the past: Angron and the first war for Armageddon.

So it's just a matter of assuming that this was a similar event. The gaps can be filled in at a later date.

Kaldor wrote:

TheRobotLol wrote:If you can't write such a huge, momumental conflict between a primarch and Draigo in a piece of writing bigger than a paragraph, don't try and cram it into one, simple.

Why not? That's how pretty much every story in 40K started. Heck, even the Horus Heresy started out as a single sentence.

Similar events to Draigo vs Morty have happened in the past: Angron and the first war for Armageddon.

So it's just a matter of assuming that this was a similar event. The gaps can be filled in at a later date.

Fair enough, only time will tell then.

If they haven't done anything in 10 years, then I'll continue this argument.

TheRobotLol wrote:

Kaldor wrote:

TheRobotLol wrote:If you can't write such a huge, momumental conflict between a primarch and Draigo in a piece of writing bigger than a paragraph, don't try and cram it into one, simple.

Why not? That's how pretty much every story in 40K started. Heck, even the Horus Heresy started out as a single sentence.

Similar events to Draigo vs Morty have happened in the past: Angron and the first war for Armageddon.

So it's just a matter of assuming that this was a similar event. The gaps can be filled in at a later date.

Fair enough, only time will tell then.

If they haven't done anything in 10 years, then I'll continue this argument.

lol, fair enough!

Draigo is the anthropomorphic embodiment of the Imperium, in-universe, and 40k, to us.

In-universe: the Imperium is in a never ending struggle against foes who seem like they should be able be crushed by, yet here they still are.

Outside: 40k is all about being ridiculously over the top. The whole setting is built on this principle. 40k goes to 11.

DarknessEternal wrote:Draigo is the anthropomorphic embodiment of the Imperium, in-universe, and 40k, to us.

In-universe: the Imperium is in a never ending struggle against foes who seem like they should be able be crushed by, yet here they still are.

Outside: 40k is all about being ridiculously over the top. The whole setting is built on this principle. 40k goes to 11.

Maybe - but even so, there has to be some kind of balance or hierarchy.....like you can't go over-over the top

The Imperium is not impervious to corruption, in fact it's very corrupt. Draigo is so pure he can survive indefinately inside the imaterium. Draigo isn't a metaphor for anything except awesomeness.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The Imperium is not impervious to corruption, in fact it's very corrupt. Draigo is so pure he can survive indefinately inside the imaterium. Draigo isn't a metaphor for anything except awesomeness.

And that is painful truth, nothing else....

DarthMarko wrote:
Maybe - but even so, there has to be some kind of balance or hierarchy.....like you can't go over-over the top

Yes, you can. That's the point.

MarkyMark wrote:Where is that fluff about Maugan Ra? eldar codex?

Tyranid one. P28.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:The same way that Khârn "hurrs" his way through everything? Or Ghazghkull? The difference being, of course, that Khârn actually kills stuff, instead of having his work undone with ease.

Why is it that everytime the Imperium has someone that's good enough to take on a major enemy one on one it's reviled like hell (Mephiston, Calgar, Draigo, Tigurius), but when some non-Imperium dude does something equally ridiculous (Ghazghkull, Swarmlord, fething Maugan Ra not to mention Eldrad) it's generally ignored?

As for this I suspect why is that.
Both those groups are beyond reason (40k reason) powerful, but there is a slight difference what they actually defeat. (Not entirely true, but at least what is perceived by "the community").
Yes, the first group has major victories, but mainly against huge amounts of unnamed background.
Calgar beats the Avatar. The most powerful combat entity of Eldar. He killed M'kar. Permanently.
Tigurius does things with Hive Mind that only the Emperor would be able to do.
Draigo -up Montarion. What is supposed to be more powerful in Chaos (apart from the gods themselves) than Daemon Primarchs?

How about Maugan Ra? What named character did he defeat? Eldrad? Kharn? Ghazghkull? Abaddon? Even if they did defeat something it was because they had the upper hand all along and their defeated adversary probably escaped alive anyway. They barely, almost killed them but didn't.
Nobody cares how many Putty Patrollers evil guys defeated. Imperial guys go against big guys, while being at disadvantage and go with style (bare handed, heart carving...)

Like I said before, this may not be accurate, more like perceived. The point still stands.

EDIT:
Wow, this thread has 4 pages and I replied to a post week old when people already moved on. I really need to wake up before posting, disregard this post :(

DarknessEternal wrote:Draigo is the anthropomorphic embodiment of the Imperium, in-universe, and 40k, to us.

In-universe: the Imperium is in a never ending struggle against foes who seem like they should be able be crushed by, yet here they still are.

Outside: 40k is all about being ridiculously over the top. The whole setting is built on this principle. 40k goes to 11.

Actually I would say quite the opposite, and I ask in fact where you have got that impression from? 40k is all about the lone struggle in the massive universe against ridiculous odds, it is about failing and dying in that struggle, and as the quote says 'alone and unremembered'. If anything, the 'character' in understated in amongst those massively theatrical surroundings - the Primarchs and the glorious legions they once lead are long gone, the industry and technology a poor and fading resemblance of its former self, and the long and slow sinking towards destruction lies ahead. It is not about Michael Bay moments, of Bond emerging from the water pouting in his swimming trunks and firing a machine gun in each hand, or in this case an indestructible good guy 'bestriding' the most inhospitable place in the universe to kill one of its most dangerous adversaries. And I think that, perhaps subconsciously or on some other level, this is the problem that many readers have with Draigo and other bits of Matt Ward background - they don't fit, don't measure up to the ethos and character of the background that has come before.

The obvious exception of this is in the satire.. because with all extremely bleak stories you need some alleviation to give the reader a break. 'Sly Marbo' as the obvious parody, the ork warlord travelling back in time to kill himself so he can have a back-up of his favourite gun. Both of these are examples of more relatively modern writing that 'get' the original concept of the 40k universe - yes it is extremely dark, but then there are the occasional bits of obvious satire within that. Draigo kind of falls awkwardly between stables, of sounding like some kind of heroic, biblical character that is at odds with so much background around him but also can't be classed as any kind of satire. His character archetype should be fighting Megatron, or Skeletor, or perhaps fascists on the beaches of Normandy in a Battle Comic, and in my view not something now recognised as a 'canon' part of the background material. So, my criticism isn't that it is a crappy piece of writing, or that it has perhaps been overly condensed, but more that it doesn't 'fit' into the rest of the 40k universe.

I don't want it to change, because it makes for epic pictures.

Although I'm with Kaldor in the fact that the Chaos gods want him stuck there, seeing all of his efforts are for naught, and eventually hoping to tempt him to give in.

He'd be one super-mean Daemon Prince.

The last picture I do in my Draigo series, I plan to have him in a moment of depressive contemplation.

Manchu wrote:Complaining about Kaldor Draigo is like complaining about Doomrider. If you don't know who that is or don't understand what I mean then ... man, I just don't know. Maybe you're too cool to be playing with toy soldiers.

Yeah, remember that time when Doomrider overcame the Emperor's psychic might to break through the webway gate in the Imperial Palace thus becoming the first daemon to set foot upon Terra in 10 millenia? And remember how he totally killed all the custodes in the room single-handedly, did some donuts around the Golden Throne, bent the Emperor over and carved "FULGRIM" on his buttcheeks before squeeling a rad air-guitar riff, popping a wheelie and riding back to his cocaine planet? And remember how henceforth from that day on he always shows up at the same hour on the same day every year to repeat this feat, and even though the custodes are aware of this fact and muster the entire Terran defense infrastructure every year to stop him, he defeats them every single time with ease? I'm trying to remember which edition that was.

Kaldor wrote:

motyak wrote:

DarthMarko wrote:

Kaldor wrote:

daveNYC wrote:Read The Emperor's Gift. The Draigo Mortarion is about a million times worse after reading the description of the attack on Angron.

You put a primarch in a story, you better bring the grade-A writing.

Oh really, and how would you propose to do that in a single paragraph?

Book on that matter maybe !?

Do you mean he should have written a book on the topic? He can't, it is codex fluff. Everything is a 1 paragraph thing really, it would severely limit any writer.

Although... getting ADB to do a book on the subject would rock my socks off!

Good luck with that. ADB had been planning on writing a number of GK books, but when the Draigo story in the GK codex came out it kind of soured him on GKs.

DeffDred wrote:Easy fix.

There is no Draigo. He is a mythical character whose stories are told to new GKs to inspire them to achieve greatness.

I have been advocating this as well

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Manchu wrote:Complaining about Kaldor Draigo is like complaining about Doomrider. If you don't know who that is or don't understand what I mean then ... man, I just don't know. Maybe you're too cool to be playing with toy soldiers.

Yeah, remember that time when Doomrider overcame the Emperor's psychic might to break through the webway gate in the Imperial Palace thus becoming the first daemon to set foot upon Terra in 10 millenia? And remember how he totally killed all the custodes in the room single-handedly, did some donuts around the Golden Throne, bent the Emperor over and carved "FULGRIM" on his buttcheeks before squeeling a rad air-guitar riff, popping a wheelie and riding back to his cocaine planet? And remember how henceforth from that day on he always shows up at the same hour on the same day every year to repeat this feat, and even though the custodes are aware of this fact and muster the entire Terran defense infrastructure every year to stop him, he defeats them every single time with ease? I'm trying to remember which edition that was.

I think we can all agree that the new Chaos dex would massively benefit from this bit of background..

(And the amusing thing is that there would still be people who would actually try and defend it )

Pacific wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Manchu wrote:Complaining about Kaldor Draigo is like complaining about Doomrider. If you don't know who that is or don't understand what I mean then ... man, I just don't know. Maybe you're too cool to be playing with toy soldiers.

Yeah, remember that time when Doomrider overcame the Emperor's psychic might to break through the webway gate in the Imperial Palace thus becoming the first daemon to set foot upon Terra in 10 millenia? And remember how he totally killed all the custodes in the room single-handedly, did some donuts around the Golden Throne, bent the Emperor over and carved "FULGRIM" on his buttcheeks before squeeling a rad air-guitar riff, popping a wheelie and riding back to his cocaine planet? And remember how henceforth from that day on he always shows up at the same hour on the same day every year to repeat this feat, and even though the custodes are aware of this fact and muster the entire Terran defense infrastructure every year to stop him, he defeats them every single time with ease? I'm trying to remember which edition that was.

I think we can all agree that the new Chaos dex would massively benefit from this bit of background..

(And the amusing thing is that there would still be people who would actually try and defend it )

The funny thing is that what I just wrote doesn't even come close to the feats that Draigo has accomplished. Seriously, the only thing the guy hasn't done is permanently destroy the Realm of Chaos and kill the Chaos gods. Evidently this "failure" causes some to view him as some kind of tragic character for some inexplicable reason. Is Kharn a tragic character because he'll never succeed in taking every single skull in the entire galaxy? Is swarmlord a tragic character because he hasn't succeeded in eating every single carbon based lifeform in the universe?

You literally cannot write a character more powerful than Draigo without destroying the setting. And this is the only reason why Matt Ward had to put in the part about the Realm of Chaos regenerating - if it wasn't for this little bit of plot armor Chaos would cease to exist as a faction, all but destroyed by the invincible Draigo. "Don't worry daemon players! Everything grows back! Rest easy - we aren't squatting Draigoing your army! Honest!"

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:The funny thing is that what I just wrote doesn't even come close to the feats that Draigo has accomplished.

Huh?

All he's done is banish Mortarion and that Greater Daemon of Tzeench. How do you think he's surviving in the Warp? It is, after all, physically impossible. His very atoms should be torn one from the other. So how is he there? The only possible explanation is that the lords of the Warp, the Chaos Gods, want him to be there.

How long can one man continue to repeat the same tasks over and over before he loses motivation? What happens to him when he does? This is a much more interesting question than "How do we kill him?"

Or the Emperor is keeping him alive because he's so pure/kawaii/faithful.

Kaldor wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:The funny thing is that what I just wrote doesn't even come close to the feats that Draigo has accomplished.

Huh?

All he's done is banish Mortarion and that Greater Daemon of Tzeench. How do you think he's surviving in the Warp? It is, after all, physically impossible. His very atoms should be torn one from the other. So how is he there? The only possible explanation is that the lords of the Warp, the Chaos Gods, want him to be there.

How long can one man continue to repeat the same tasks over and over before he loses motivation? What happens to him when he does? This is a much more interesting question than "How do we kill him?"

Draigo daemon prince... would please the Chaos gods quite greatly, I imagine.

One of the Chaos gods is trying to engineer his fall, and its probably Tzeentch.

Kaldor.. I think you are giving it far more thought than the original writer gave to it..

daedalus-templarius wrote:

Kaldor wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:The funny thing is that what I just wrote doesn't even come close to the feats that Draigo has accomplished.

Huh?

All he's done is banish Mortarion and that Greater Daemon of Tzeench. How do you think he's surviving in the Warp? It is, after all, physically impossible. His very atoms should be torn one from the other. So how is he there? The only possible explanation is that the lords of the Warp, the Chaos Gods, want him to be there.

How long can one man continue to repeat the same tasks over and over before he loses motivation? What happens to him when he does? This is a much more interesting question than "How do we kill him?"

Draigo daemon prince... would please the Chaos gods quite greatly, I imagine.

One of the Chaos gods is trying to engineer his fall, and its probably Tzeentch.

Hm,no way he would be a D-prince ,then it would be like 10 times over-over-over the top with OP department...He is more like champ of chaos candidate....

Kaldor wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:The funny thing is that what I just wrote doesn't even come close to the feats that Draigo has accomplished.

Huh?

All he's done is banish Mortarion and that Greater Daemon of Tzeench.

He doesn't just banish Mortarion, he rapes Mortarion. Alone and unaided he kills Mortarion's bodyguard, knocks the daemon primarch to the ground, holds him down as if he were his kid brother and carves a name on his heart.

And that's not all he's done either. He walks around the Warp destroying the Realm of Chaos with impunity and the Chaos gods themselves are powerless to stop him. No one else in the setting - not even the Emperor - has ever been able to do this.

Kaldor wrote:How do you think he's surviving in the Warp? It is, after all, physically impossible. His very atoms should be torn one from the other. So how is he there? The only possible explanation is that the lords of the Warp, the Chaos Gods, want him to be there.

It's not physically impossible. Not for Kaldor omfgawesomesauce Draigo. It is stated that he is immune to the will of the Chaos gods. He is able to survive in the Warp because he really is just that powerful.

And by the way, that's cognitive dissonance you're experiencing. The only explanation is that the Chaos gods want him there - surely Draigo can't be that powerful! Well guess what - he is.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Kaldor wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:The funny thing is that what I just wrote doesn't even come close to the feats that Draigo has accomplished.

Huh?

All he's done is banish Mortarion and that Greater Daemon of Tzeench.

He doesn't just banish Mortarion, he rapes Mortarion. Alone and unaided he kills Mortarion's bodyguard, knocks the daemon primarch to the ground, holds him down as if he were his kid brother and carves a name on his heart.

Source? All it says is that he carves Geronitan's name on the heart, for all we know Mortarion might already be "dead" when that happens.

And, again, he just finished killing off the previous GKSGM.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Kaldor wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:The funny thing is that what I just wrote doesn't even come close to the feats that Draigo has accomplished.

Huh?

All he's done is banish Mortarion and that Greater Daemon of Tzeench.

He doesn't just banish Mortarion, he rapes Mortarion. Alone and unaided he kills Mortarion's bodyguard, knocks the daemon primarch to the ground, holds him down as if he were his kid brother and carves a name on his heart.

Source? All it says is that he carves Geronitan's name on the heart, for all we know Mortarion might already be "dead" when that happens.

And, again, he just finished killing off the previous GKSGM.

Mortarion can't be dead,he IS f***n "death " and he can only be banished, not slashed to death, IFRC

DarthMarko wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Kaldor wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:The funny thing is that what I just wrote doesn't even come close to the feats that Draigo has accomplished.

Huh?

All he's done is banish Mortarion and that Greater Daemon of Tzeench.

He doesn't just banish Mortarion, he rapes Mortarion. Alone and unaided he kills Mortarion's bodyguard, knocks the daemon primarch to the ground, holds him down as if he were his kid brother and carves a name on his heart.

Source? All it says is that he carves Geronitan's name on the heart, for all we know Mortarion might already be "dead" when that happens.

And, again, he just finished killing off the previous GKSGM.

Mortarion can't be dead,he IS f***n "death " and he can only be banished, not slashed to death, IFRC

Hence "dead", as in his physical body being dead but him retreating to the Warp to come back later.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

DarthMarko wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Kaldor wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:The funny thing is that what I just wrote doesn't even come close to the feats that Draigo has accomplished.

Huh?

All he's done is banish Mortarion and that Greater Daemon of Tzeench.

He doesn't just banish Mortarion, he rapes Mortarion. Alone and unaided he kills Mortarion's bodyguard, knocks the daemon primarch to the ground, holds him down as if he were his kid brother and carves a name on his heart.

Source? All it says is that he carves Geronitan's name on the heart, for all we know Mortarion might already be "dead" when that happens.

And, again, he just finished killing off the previous GKSGM.

Mortarion can't be dead,he IS f***n "death " and he can only be banished, not slashed to death, IFRC

Hence "dead", as in his physical body being dead but him retreating to the Warp to come back later.

Hm so you think something like necrofilia?

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Kaldor wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:The funny thing is that what I just wrote doesn't even come close to the feats that Draigo has accomplished.

Huh?

All he's done is banish Mortarion and that Greater Daemon of Tzeench.

He doesn't just banish Mortarion, he rapes Mortarion. Alone and unaided he kills Mortarion's bodyguard, knocks the daemon primarch to the ground, holds him down as if he were his kid brother and carves a name on his heart.

And that's not all he's done either. He walks around the Warp destroying the Realm of Chaos with impunity and the Chaos gods themselves are powerless to stop him. No one else in the setting - not even the Emperor - has ever been able to do this.

Kaldor wrote:How do you think he's surviving in the Warp? It is, after all, physically impossible. His very atoms should be torn one from the other. So how is he there? The only possible explanation is that the lords of the Warp, the Chaos Gods, want him to be there.

It's not physically impossible. Not for Kaldor omfgawesomesauce Draigo. It is stated that he is immune to the will of the Chaos gods. He is able to survive in the Warp because he really is just that powerful.

And by the way, that's cognitive dissonance you're experiencing. The only explanation is that the Chaos gods want him there - surely Draigo can't be that powerful! Well guess what - he is.

I don't think you're supposed to take everything about the potential power of the fiction characters so seriously... I mean really, Ward is obviously just trying to pump up Draigo to unimaginable levels with those passages; he isn't really THAT powerful. These are stories told by the Grey Knights; he could be doing nothing in the Chaos Wastes, and just thinks he is!

However, I am still going to say the Chaos gods allow him to be there and are slowly trying to break him with the intent of turning him into a champion of Chaos or a Daemon Prince.

Pacific wrote:Kaldor.. I think you are giving it far more thought than the original writer gave to it..

lol, probably!

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:He doesn't just banish Mortarion, he rapes Mortarion. Alone and unaided he kills Mortarion's bodyguard, knocks the daemon primarch to the ground, holds him down as if he were his kid brother and carves a name on his heart.

Kinda like how Brother Captain Taremar, alone and unaided, defeated Angron in single combat?

Except Draigo doesn't die in the process, and defiles Mortarion's remains after the fight by carving Geronitan's name on his heart.

And that's not all he's done either. He walks around the Warp destroying the Realm of Chaos with impunity and the Chaos gods themselves are powerless to stop him. No one else in the setting - not even the Emperor - has ever been able to do this.

The warp has no gravity, no atmosphere, no physics, no consistency. Draigo could not survive there unless it was formed (by someone who could form it) into an environment that he could survive in.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

He doesn't just banish Mortarion, he rapes Mortarion. Alone and unaided he kills Mortarion's bodyguard, knocks the daemon primarch to the ground, holds him down as if he were his kid brother and carves a name on his heart.

And that's not all he's done either. He walks around the Warp destroying the Realm of Chaos with impunity and the Chaos gods themselves are powerless to stop him. No one else in the setting - not even the Emperor - has ever been able to do this.

True Dat. Ward made Draigo effectively more powerful than the Emperor. That's the problem. No one should be more powerful than the Big E. Except maybe the Chaos gods, but that is another thread.

Noisy_Marine wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

He doesn't just banish Mortarion, he rapes Mortarion. Alone and unaided he kills Mortarion's bodyguard, knocks the daemon primarch to the ground, holds him down as if he were his kid brother and carves a name on his heart.

And that's not all he's done either. He walks around the Warp destroying the Realm of Chaos with impunity and the Chaos gods themselves are powerless to stop him. No one else in the setting - not even the Emperor - has ever been able to do this.

True Dat. Ward made Draigo effectively more powerful than the Emperor. That's the problem. No one should be more powerful than the Big E. Except maybe the Chaos gods, but that is another thread.

Hyperbole much? How is he more powerful than the Emperor? The Emperor made the entire World Eaters Legion kneel before him with a snap of his fingers, he completely erased Horus while the latter was under the effects of some serious Chaos Kool-aid.

Besides, why would the Emperor bother destroying stuff that will just fix itself again? I don't know how many times it's been said, but nothing Draigo does in the Warp matters at all.

Kaldor wrote:
The warp has no gravity, no atmosphere, no physics, no consistency. Draigo could not survive there unless it was formed (by someone who could form it) into an environment that he could survive in.

Draigo's a psyker, couldn't he form a small bubble of real-space around himself?

DarthMarko wrote:Mortarion can't be dead,he IS f***n "death " and he can only be banished, not slashed to death, IFRC

I don't understand your fascination with Mortarion being death. There's no such thing in 40K. He's a Primarch corrupted by Nurgle and ascended into being a Daemon Prince. That may give him certain abilities as well as immortality, but it also gives him certain weaknesses.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Besides, why would the Emperor bother destroying stuff that will just fix itself again? I don't know how many times it's been said, but nothing Draigo does in the Warp matters at all.

I've heard that in Collected Visions ( I think) that the Emperors Psychic might was in fact devastating the Realms of Chaos, although I haven't read the passage myself.

Draigo's a psyker, couldn't he form a small bubble of real-space around himself?

Doing so permanently would be a drain, and is a bit hard to swallow if he has to sleep or gets tired. That said, if the real world laws don't apply, would he need to sleep or anything, or is his body just constantly maintained (if it is indeed his material body)?

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Noisy_Marine wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

He doesn't just banish Mortarion, he rapes Mortarion. Alone and unaided he kills Mortarion's bodyguard, knocks the daemon primarch to the ground, holds him down as if he were his kid brother and carves a name on his heart.

And that's not all he's done either. He walks around the Warp destroying the Realm of Chaos with impunity and the Chaos gods themselves are powerless to stop him. No one else in the setting - not even the Emperor - has ever been able to do this.

True Dat. Ward made Draigo effectively more powerful than the Emperor. That's the problem. No one should be more powerful than the Big E. Except maybe the Chaos gods, but that is another thread.

Hyperbole much? How is he more powerful than the Emperor? The Emperor made the entire World Eaters Legion kneel before him with a snap of his fingers, he completely erased Horus while the latter was under the effects of some serious Chaos Kool-aid.

Besides, why would the Emperor bother destroying stuff that will just fix itself again? I don't know how many times it's been said, but nothing Draigo does in the Warp matters at all.

It was Word Bearers. Anyway, anyone who gets sucked into the warp is supposed to turn into a spawn or come out as some sort of mutated monstrositie. And even the Emperor didn't ever choose to enter the warp, as far as we know. Draigo should've been spawned the moment he entered the warp, regardless of how powerful he is. The fact that nothing he does matters is irrelevant. He shouldn't have been able to do anything in the first place. Because that is how the warp is supposed to work. Now if Draigo can walk around the warp doing stuff, maybe other characters could do it too? Maybe next we will see Tigurius or some other psyker running around in the warp for gaks and giggles. And that just isn't supposed to happen. What of the rules of the setting is that anything that goes into the warp dies a horrible death or gets mutated and comes back out as something else entirely.

So Ward breaks a fundamental rule of the setting and people are ok with that? Would you like it if he next wrote that the Eldar are not dying, and are actually making a huge comeback? Or that Orks are actually a race of miners and craftsman? Can you imagine the backlash that would cause from Ork players?

AlmightyWalrus wrote:I don't know how many times it's been said, but nothing Draigo does in the Warp matters at all.

We don't really know if this is the case. How much effort does it take for the Chaos gods to regenerate their servants and their realms? For all we know Draigo might be preventing major daemonic incursions as the energy is instead being spent repairing all the damage he does.

But back to the original question of the topic, here's how I would repair Draigo's fluff. First off, Mortarion:

Mortarion is a plague victim. When he was stricken by the Destroyer Plague he called out to Nurgle for salvation. Nurgle answered him and Mortarion was gifted with power and immortality, but he was not cured. To this day he lapses in and out of delirium. As a servant of Nurgle disease is a source of immense strength for Mortarion, but this strength is unfocused, striking down victims indiscriminately like a scythe through wheat.

So basically Mortarion is senile. The reason why he fashions his daemon world into a replica of Barbarus is because half the time he believes it is Barbarus. His power waxes and wanes like pandemics of disease, but when his power is at its greatest he is also at his least lucid.

At the height of the Battle of Kornovin Mortarion is so delirious he begins reliving the siege of the Terra. When he strikes down Geronitan he believes he is striking down the false Emperor. And when he sees Draigo coming he mistakes him for Horus. "Horus, you are late! The battle is over!" Draigo begins smashing through Mortarion's bodyguard. Believing his brother to be in danger, Mortarion mistakes his bodyguard for the enemy and begins scything them down from behind. Draigo confronts the daemon primarch, sword raised. "Horus, my dear brother. At last we are victorious! The Emperor is no more!" Mortarion spreads his arms wide to embrace his brother...

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:I don't know how many times it's been said, but nothing Draigo does in the Warp matters at all.

We don't really know if this is the case. How much effort does it take for the Chaos gods to regenerate their servants and their realms? For all we know Draigo might be preventing major daemonic incursions as the energy is instead being spent repairing all the damage he does.

But back to the original question of the topic, here's how I would repair Draigo's fluff. First off, Mortarion:

Mortarion is a plague victim. When he was stricken by the Destroyer Plague he called out to Nurgle for salvation. Nurgle answered him and Mortarion was gifted with power and immortality, but he was not cured. To this day he lapses in and out of delirium. As a servant of Nurgle disease is a source of immense strength for Mortarion, but this strength is unfocused, striking down victims indiscriminately like a scythe through wheat.

So basically Mortarion is senile. The reason why he fashions his daemon world into a replica of Barbarus is because half the time he believes it is Barbarus. His power waxes and wanes like pandemics of disease, but when his power is at its greatest he is also at his least lucid.

At the height of the Battle of Kornovin Mortarion is so delirious he begins reliving the siege of the Terra. When he strikes down Geronitan he believes he is striking down the false Emperor. And when he sees Draigo coming he mistakes him for Horus. "Horus, you are late! The battle is over!" Draigo begins smashing through Mortarion's bodyguard. Believing his brother to be in danger, Mortarion mistakes his bodyguard for the enemy and begins scything them down from behind. Draigo confronts the daemon primarch, sword raised. "Horus, my dear brother. At last we are victorious! The Emperor is no more!" Mortarion spreads his arms wide to embrace his brother...

Source? Ty...

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
We don't really know if this is the case. How much effort does it take for the Chaos gods to regenerate their servants and their realms? For all we know Draigo might be preventing major daemonic incursions as the energy is instead being spent repairing all the damage he does.

It's never said. M'kar was the one who banished Draigo to the Warp, right? Would Tzeentch especially not then have any easy time of undoing the work of one of his own Greater Daemons if he so wished? Surely the Ruinous Powers, even if they can't kill Draigo (which I doubt) directly could revoke his banishment and stop bringing him back into the Warp (according to Lexicanum, M'kar eventually suffered a True Death, so why would his curse still work anyway?).

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:I don't know how many times it's been said, but nothing Draigo does in the Warp matters at all.

We don't really know if this is the case. How much effort does it take for the Chaos gods to regenerate their servants and their realms? For all we know Draigo might be preventing major daemonic incursions as the energy is instead being spent repairing all the damage he does.

But back to the original question of the topic, here's how I would repair Draigo's fluff. First off, Mortarion:

Mortarion is a plague victim. When he was stricken by the Destroyer Plague he called out to Nurgle for salvation. Nurgle answered him and Mortarion was gifted with power and immortality, but he was not cured. To this day he lapses in and out of delirium. As a servant of Nurgle disease is a source of immense strength for Mortarion, but this strength is unfocused, striking down victims indiscriminately like a scythe through wheat.

So basically Mortarion is senile. The reason why he fashions his daemon world into a replica of Barbarus is because half the time he believes it is Barbarus. His power waxes and wanes like pandemics of disease, but when his power is at its greatest he is also at his least lucid.

At the height of the Battle of Kornovin Mortarion is so delirious he begins reliving the siege of the Terra. When he strikes down Geronitan he believes he is striking down the false Emperor. And when he sees Draigo coming he mistakes him for Horus. "Horus, you are late! The battle is over!" Draigo begins smashing through Mortarion's bodyguard. Believing his brother to be in danger, Mortarion mistakes his bodyguard for the enemy and begins scything them down from behind. Draigo confronts the daemon primarch, sword raised. "Horus, my dear brother. At last we are victorious! The Emperor is no more!" Mortarion spreads his arms wide to embrace his brother...

That's not bad. It makes Mortarion powerful yet interesting because of his weakness.

 DarthMarko wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:I don't know how many times it's been said, but nothing Draigo does in the Warp matters at all.

We don't really know if this is the case. How much effort does it take for the Chaos gods to regenerate their servants and their realms? For all we know Draigo might be preventing major daemonic incursions as the energy is instead being spent repairing all the damage he does.

But back to the original question of the topic, here's how I would repair Draigo's fluff. First off, Mortarion:

Mortarion is a plague victim. When he was stricken by the Destroyer Plague he called out to Nurgle for salvation. Nurgle answered him and Mortarion was gifted with power and immortality, but he was not cured. To this day he lapses in and out of delirium. As a servant of Nurgle disease is a source of immense strength for Mortarion, but this strength is unfocused, striking down victims indiscriminately like a scythe through wheat.

So basically Mortarion is senile. The reason why he fashions his daemon world into a replica of Barbarus is because half the time he believes it is Barbarus. His power waxes and wanes like pandemics of disease, but when his power is at its greatest he is also at his least lucid.

At the height of the Battle of Kornovin Mortarion is so delirious he begins reliving the siege of the Terra. When he strikes down Geronitan he believes he is striking down the false Emperor. And when he sees Draigo coming he mistakes him for Horus. "Horus, you are late! The battle is over!" Draigo begins smashing through Mortarion's bodyguard. Believing his brother to be in danger, Mortarion mistakes his bodyguard for the enemy and begins scything them down from behind. Draigo confronts the daemon primarch, sword raised. "Horus, my dear brother. At last we are victorious! The Emperor is no more!" Mortarion spreads his arms wide to embrace his brother...

Source? Ty...

The source is me. This is how I would write Mortarion.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 DarthMarko wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:I don't know how many times it's been said, but nothing Draigo does in the Warp matters at all.

We don't really know if this is the case. How much effort does it take for the Chaos gods to regenerate their servants and their realms? For all we know Draigo might be preventing major daemonic incursions as the energy is instead being spent repairing all the damage he does.

But back to the original question of the topic, here's how I would repair Draigo's fluff. First off, Mortarion:

Mortarion is a plague victim. When he was stricken by the Destroyer Plague he called out to Nurgle for salvation. Nurgle answered him and Mortarion was gifted with power and immortality, but he was not cured. To this day he lapses in and out of delirium. As a servant of Nurgle disease is a source of immense strength for Mortarion, but this strength is unfocused, striking down victims indiscriminately like a scythe through wheat.

So basically Mortarion is senile. The reason why he fashions his daemon world into a replica of Barbarus is because half the time he believes it is Barbarus. His power waxes and wanes like pandemics of disease, but when his power is at its greatest he is also at his least lucid.

At the height of the Battle of Kornovin Mortarion is so delirious he begins reliving the siege of the Terra. When he strikes down Geronitan he believes he is striking down the false Emperor. And when he sees Draigo coming he mistakes him for Horus. "Horus, you are late! The battle is over!" Draigo begins smashing through Mortarion's bodyguard. Believing his brother to be in danger, Mortarion mistakes his bodyguard for the enemy and begins scything them down from behind. Draigo confronts the daemon primarch, sword raised. "Horus, my dear brother. At last we are victorious! The Emperor is no more!" Mortarion spreads his arms wide to embrace his brother...

Source? Ty...

The source is me. This is how I would write Mortarion.

Oooo,sorry didn't read whole your post - but c'mon, senile primarch:-)and ofc you have my compliments for imagination but just think how funny would that scene be....

Is it not written in the grey knights codex that there is a golden box with a sigil thats found on the golden throne that only the supreme grand master of the grey knights know the secret to? That box could explain why the chaos gods would want draigo alive because as long as he is technically alive the gk's dont have to appoint a new one. but draigo cant get to the box and work the secret if its needed.
Thus the secret box cant be used. The mortarion thing could be explained with mortarion getting cocky after killing the grand master and undeestimate what a lone grey knight could do with the right motivation and with his guard down.

On another note, didn't maugan rah drive the altaioc craftworld out of the eye right under the nose of slaanesh and everyone was totally fine afterwards?

Well if you could rewrite Draigo's fluff I would say simply remove the whole bitch slapping a Daemon Primarch bit. Seriously that would go a LONGGGGG way to making it better.

If you just want to add to it, edit it in a way.

Have in the Chaos Codex that Draigo hasnt actually done anything like that, that it has been Tzeentch fething with him "just as planned" to break him. The guy is awsome and COULD feth some gak up, so instead of wasting his subjects dealing wtih this guy, have him put Draigo in a mini alternate dimension type place where he thinks he is winning these battles and than watching right in front of his eyes and everything he just did is reversed. This will eventually break even the hardest warrior and than Tzeentch could just send someone and kill Draigo. Just as planned.

Or you could make it so that the Fateweaver dude was the guy who did this. I think that would do a good job saving Mortarion from looking like a fething failure, Chaos is really powerful and dangerous, yet Draigo still is pretty powerful


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:I don't know how many times it's been said, but nothing Draigo does in the Warp matters at all.

We don't really know if this is the case. How much effort does it take for the Chaos gods to regenerate their servants and their realms? For all we know Draigo might be preventing major daemonic incursions as the energy is instead being spent repairing all the damage he does.

But back to the original question of the topic, here's how I would repair Draigo's fluff. First off, Mortarion:

Mortarion is a plague victim. When he was stricken by the Destroyer Plague he called out to Nurgle for salvation. Nurgle answered him and Mortarion was gifted with power and immortality, but he was not cured. To this day he lapses in and out of delirium. As a servant of Nurgle disease is a source of immense strength for Mortarion, but this strength is unfocused, striking down victims indiscriminately like a scythe through wheat.

So basically Mortarion is senile. The reason why he fashions his daemon world into a replica of Barbarus is because half the time he believes it is Barbarus. His power waxes and wanes like pandemics of disease, but when his power is at its greatest he is also at his least lucid.

At the height of the Battle of Kornovin Mortarion is so delirious he begins reliving the siege of the Terra. When he strikes down Geronitan he believes he is striking down the false Emperor. And when he sees Draigo coming he mistakes him for Horus. "Horus, you are late! The battle is over!" Draigo begins smashing through Mortarion's bodyguard. Believing his brother to be in danger, Mortarion mistakes his bodyguard for the enemy and begins scything them down from behind. Draigo confronts the daemon primarch, sword raised. "Horus, my dear brother. At last we are victorious! The Emperor is no more!" Mortarion spreads his arms wide to embrace his brother...

Holy crap that is actually really good.

It finally gives an explanation why Mortarion is just sitting on his ass not doing anything. Its because he isnt himself anymore. I always had an issue that these great Primarchs who are made for war havnt done fething gak in the last 10,000 years with the exception of Angron who has come out to play like 3 times. Seriously if even 1 of the Loyalist Primarchs came back this war would go from Imperium being in a stalement to wiping the floor of these guys because the traitor Primarchs arnt doing anything and they have no reason given. (I wish they kind of just killed them off or something so they dont look like failures)

You know Im actually going to borrow this non-cannon fluff. Thank you lol

Boneville wrote:
On another note, didn't maugan rah drive the altaioc craftworld out of the eye right under the nose of slaanesh and everyone was totally fine afterwards?

It was a minor Craftworld called Altansar, not Alaitoc. And I wouldn't say that they were totally fine, because most Eldar treat them with suspicion and hostility due to their prolonged exposure to the Warp.

So, what if Draigo is actually just wandering between worlds in the Eye of Terror; kinda like how our Ultramarine pal Uriel Ventris had done.

He was thrown into 'the Warp', but he may have just ended up on a corrupted world in the EoT. I mean, reading about those places, they are pretty much just as f'ing crazy as what you'd imagine the pure warp to be.

Oceans of blood, jungles of bone and flesh, etc etc. Draigo could just be stomping around some of them, using Daemon portals to travel between them in some way. I mean heck, the 3rd Grey Knight novel, Alaric is basically on a world filled with oceans of blood and constantly warring daemon lords.