From August 17th, Games Workshop are changing their trade terms. This will effect the way that New Release information will be handled.
After August 17th, any shop selling White Dwarf or any New release item before the release date, discussing New Release information or posting images on Facebook, forums etc before release date will be punished by not being allowed to stock New Releases for 6 months !
Seems like they are not pleased with all those White Dwarf scans heralding new releases recently. Could even cover the infamous Beast of War "drawings" in the way it is formulated.
[edit]
The confirmation via Warseer via Kroothawk
Kroothawk wrote:It is official now (posted by store owner xxRavenxx over at Warseer):
Be aware that discussing Dakka rumours instore is now a capital crime not tolerated by GW management. Thank you for your cooperation
Well, not that I think GW's stance on pre-release info is smart
If a business or individal signs a non-disclosure agreement they should stick to it. This might make business owners more concerned with enforcing this.
(but my guess is it will only be applied to 'small fry'. would the so called GW cash-monster really stop selling if it cost money?)
This seems like a scare tactic more than being plausible. If a random person posts all the information on a website containing the new White Dwarf pictures, how much effort does anyone really think that GW is going to invest to determine which store did it knowing specifically it will cost them money?
If GW is coming down to hollow threats, they need to look at thier marketing a bit more deeply...
From August 17th, Games Workshop are changing their trade terms. This will effect the way that New Release information will be handled.
After August 17th, any shop selling White Dwarf or any New release item before the release date, discussing New Release information or posting images on Facebook, forums etc before release date will be punished by not being allowed to stock New Releases for 6 months !
Seems like they are not pleased with all those White Dwarf scans heralding new releases recently. Could even cover the infamous Beast of War "drawings" in the way it is formulated.
If GW sent an email to store manager informing them of changes to their terms, it would be worded a lot more formally than that "email".
And it definitely wouldn't end in an exclamation mark.
"Scans appeared again!"
"Again?"
"Yes, again!"
"Start calling retailers. I'm sure once we've called them all we'll get to the bottom of this."
"I'm sure the retailer responsible for this will be 100% honest."
"Of course they will."
"How many have we got to call?"
"A little over 600. In this region. I'll get on the horn to GWUK and tell 'em to start calling Europe!"
"Good idea!"
I'm not sure I understand why GW seems so focused on hiding information about new releases. Shouldn't it be the other way around, to hype up potential sales and get customers more exited? It'd be akin to the video game industry blacking out all information about the next AAA title, only to have it drop in stores one day with no warning whatsoever.
As a potential customer, I'd love at least *some* information on what's being released in the months ahead, so that I can plan my hobby budget and start thinking about new unit/army possibilities.
Mr. Grey wrote:I'm not sure I understand why GW seems so focused on hiding information about new releases. Shouldn't it be the other way around, to hype up potential sales and get customers more exited? It'd be akin to the video game industry blacking out all information about the next AAA title, only to have it drop in stores one day with no warning whatsoever.
As a potential customer, I'd love at least *some* information on what's being released in the months ahead, so that I can plan my hobby budget and start thinking about new unit/army possibilities.
This is what they want to avoid. They do not want you cherry picking what you want to buy. They hope you will go OH! SHINY at every new release and pick it up regardless.
Well, actually, maybe instead of havng their web monkeys surf he web for "illegal scans" they could put them to work doing something useful like posting a PDF of the damn Ork Flyers...
CT GAMER wrote:Well, actually, maybe instead of havng their web monkeys surf he web for "illegal scans" they could put them to work doing something useful like posting a PDF of the damn Ork Flyers...
I wouldn't worry about that. They're going to release those rules.
It's to protect their market, if they said right in two months time we will be doing a Black Templars release:
Suddenly all the independent moulding companies are marketing a Knight Templar in space insignia pack! So all the people looking to do a new BT army buy the insignia pack cos it's a lot cheaper than the GW conversion pack.
The theory is that if they don't tell anyone what the new release is the competition doesn't have time to prepare.
GW dont have the man power to govern indy stores and they sure in hell wont spend the money to get secret shoppers to do it. Pure GW crap scare tactics as usual.
Seems like they are not pleased with all those White Dwarf scans heralding new releases recently. Could even cover the infamous Beast of War "drawings" in the way it is formulated.
If GW sent an email to store manager informing them of changes to their terms, it would be worded a lot more formally than that "email".
And it definitely wouldn't end in an exclamation mark.
True enough. Along with the effect/affect mix-up, it might just be a bogus thing and not actually a true GW email. Please not the "allegedly" I included precisely because I am not in a position to verify if this is legit or not.
In all seriousness, what would make more sense is if they do what map companies do and publish slight flaws, so they make a slight error on the page with the next hot information on it. Then when it hits the net they look at it, determine what error it is, look up which Indy that version was given and rain the full wrath of the GW thought police upon their heads!
That said, it would take a lot of time to determine that amount of different errors, possibly a code printed discreetly somewhere...
One point that I missed the first time - if this is accurate, it actually says the retailers are not allowed to mention items that GW has already put up for pre-order.
Pffft, GW might be horrible, but not as stupid as some of the die-hards would love to make it out. Six months of not selling latest releases, the big cash-candy cows? Come on now, think!
We've got a "FLGS" that did that for a long time, GW simply demoted it from premiere store to regular store status when it still meant something.
Mr. Grey wrote:I'm not sure I understand why GW seems so focused on hiding information about new releases. Shouldn't it be the other way around, to hype up potential sales and get customers more exited? It'd be akin to the video game industry blacking out all information about the next AAA title, only to have it drop in stores one day with no warning whatsoever.
My opinion is that they should shoot for a middle ground. I'm all about controlling your message, but GW could build more buzz about products (especially big things like army releases) shortly before release and still keep a firm hand on the wheel. Virtually all their customers know they're on a monthly release cycle. So why the monthly pretense that they aren't?
If any of this has to do with leaked WD scans, that's kinda ironic considering the company is relying on a monthly print magazine as a primary method of communicating with its customers. But hey, I was fond of the '80s too.
GW could do better while still achieving their goals and it wouldn't have to break the bank. Maybe that digital agency will change GW's thinking, but I'm skeptical that they'll listen. Believe me when I say that clients don't listen.
There was a "store owner" last month that did a video in his store showing the new white dwarf days before its release date. All they have to do is figure out who and where this is... But does this effect me from wanting that issue of the White Dwarf?? Not at all...What really ticks me off is the fact I have a subscription and it takes weeks after the stores get them to receive mine in the mail, with the fact I live less than two hours from Memphis their main distribution center.
This is stupid, where are they staying tight lipped instead of hyping up their new releases. It seems all they really care about is looking like a premium brand as an excuse for high prices instead of following legitimate and strong business strategies which will be good for the long run of the company and the market. Making hollow threats is not very professional!
Genoside07 wrote:There was a "store owner" last month that did a video in his store showing the new white dwarf days before its release date. All they have to do is figure out who and where this is... But does this effect me from wanting that issue of the White Dwarf?? Not at all...What really ticks me off is the fact I have a subscription and it takes weeks after the stores get them to receive mine in the mail, with the fact I live less than two hours from Memphis their main distribution center.
They really screw over their customers on the White Dwarf subscription. I will not subscribe again when I can get White Dwarf from my FLGS the day of release instead of a week after with the subscription.
"Scans appeared again!"
"Again?"
"Yes, again!"
"Start calling retailers. I'm sure once we've called them all we'll get to the bottom of this."
"I'm sure the retailer responsible for this will be 100% honest."
"Of course they will."
"How many have we got to call?"
"A little over 600. In this region. I'll get on the horn to GWUK and tell 'em to start calling Europe!"
"Good idea!"
"With the way this Internet thing's going we may have to take on another person!"
GW, there is no amount of facepalming we can do if this is true.
heartserenade wrote:Can't they just do their previous properly and you know, try to market their own stuff?
I don't know if you checked this month's White Dwarf. The first 24 pages are nothing but marketing. Not that I think this is the way to go about it, because the information is basically less than what you get on their own website, on the very same day as the drop day for WD.
And while I'm at it, who's the genius who used a two page spread for The Hobbit and basically makes the two central characters unviewable? I understand this is probably pre-existing material, but it just looks bad that I have to literally stretch the magazine to even see Thorin Oakenshield correctly.
Getting into Magic the Gathering shows me quite a contrast in approaches. When there's a new release coming for Magic there's a date set well in advance and some little spoilers, and a few weeks before hand the cards for the new set are gradually revealed a few each day. Then a week before the release they support pre-release events in stores everywhere so you can get a few packs of the new set and promotional cards for that specific event. Then they do something similar for the actual release.
GW do none of this. They clamp down on all information until they decide to put it in their monthly sales catalogue. Then the stuff is available on the day if you want to go and buy it.
GW just don't manage any hype or try to engage their customers. Each event from Magic is memorable, they make it eventful and you feel part of something when getting involved, and you get some promotional bits and pieces as extra reward. GW simply don't foster any community with their releases, their White Dwarf is about as exciting as the new Argos catalogue.
"Scans appeared again!"
"Again?"
"Yes, again!"
"Start calling retailers. I'm sure once we've called them all we'll get to the bottom of this."
"I'm sure the retailer responsible for this will be 100% honest."
"Of course they will."
"How many have we got to call?"
"A little over 600. In this region. I'll get on the horn to GWUK and tell 'em to start calling Europe!"
"Good idea!"
Right, it would be impossible to police which makes me think BS. I would expect some kind of blog post by one of the big retailers (Wayland or Maelstrom) if it is true, they would tend to not take this type of crap lightly.
It might be an attempt again to start hitting the independents however, which have been making a bit of a renaissance in the UK over the past 3-4 years. Remember many of those were forced out and closed down in the 90's here in the UK when a GW store opened near them, and it might be that GW are trying to do something similar again?
So ANYBODY who puts images of new release on the internet BEFORE the release date will not be allowed to sell new releases for 6 months.
Well that means that the GW Online Store will not be selling any new releases for the next 6 months seeing how they put images up a week before release.
Howard A Treesong wrote:Getting into Magic the Gathering shows me quite a contrast in approaches. When there's a new release coming for Magic there's a date set well in advance and some little spoilers, and a few weeks before hand the cards for the new set are gradually revealed a few each day. Then a week before the release they support pre-release events in stores everywhere so you can get a few packs of the new set and promotional cards for that specific event. Then they do something similar for the actual release.
Decipher Games did this when they had the Star Wars CCG license. It generated a lot of excitement in my play-group.
heartserenade wrote:Can't they just do their previous properly and you know, try to market their own stuff?
I don't know if you checked this month's White Dwarf. The first 24 pages are nothing but marketing. Not that I think this is the way to go about it, because the information is basically less than what you get on their own website, on the very same day as the drop day for WD.
And while I'm at it, who's the genius who used a two page spread for The Hobbit and basically makes the two central characters unviewable? I understand this is probably pre-existing material, but it just looks bad that I have to literally stretch the magazine to even see Thorin Oakenshield correctly.
I mean with teasers and spoilers. Leaks wouldn't be much of a problem if you are giving the public information yourself, information which you can control.
As Howard A Treesong said, it's very different from other hobby games, like M:tG and now even Infinity.
Really all it would take is some anonymous store keeper/worker to take captures in a nondescript room and then email through a proxy or post them photos online from behind a proxy. Good luck tracing that GW!
I think GW employs some sort of magic "inverse sales" ability, to allow them to continue to make money while being so horrendously bad at marketing.
I daresay that if you are worried about third-party bitz makers beating you to the punch, oh,no.... mayhaps you should be more competitive, with your giant budget for advertising and much greater volume, if teeny little companies with shoestring budgets are actually hurting your bottom line.
I think GW is assuming that they are so completely awesome in this industry that they don't need previews to get people exited about their stuff. Evidently people just show up at the door with money in fist to buy the first new thing they see.
As for the age of "free" PDF's being dead.....well, that's mostly just GW. There are major games who put their entire rulebook online.
I'm just pissed about the lack of accessible PDF's. I'll gladly pay GW for some PDF's that I can look at on my home computer and then print out to use at the table. I'll never be able to afford an IPad, and I really don't care about GW's unholy terror that someone will illegally share a PDF of some pages from a WD issue.
Once a White Dwarf issue is out of print, the rules therin shouldn't be only for those with fancy electronics, while at the same time it's sad that GW basically has to issue WD-only rules for new releases just so people will buy their $10US ad pamphlet.
I'm willing to bet they're going to try to do the hype thing in-house with those youtube video teasers they keep doing. Part of hype is word of mouth, and if the only word is "weird and vague GW teaser video on youtube" that's not really going to send the buzz of excitement out. I swear, GWs marketing department is filled with bad ideas.
However, forcing heavy restrictions on game stores that sell your product with hollow threats that they couldn't follow through with even if they tried will most definitely lead to more game stores having that much respect for GW and their policies.
From August 17th, Games Workshop are changing their trade terms. This will effect the way that New Release information will be handled.
After August 17th, any shop selling White Dwarf or any New release item before the release date, discussing New Release information or posting images on Facebook, forums etc before release date will be punished by not being allowed to stock New Releases for 6 months !
Seems like they are not pleased with all those White Dwarf scans heralding new releases recently. Could even cover the infamous Beast of War "drawings" in the way it is formulated.
News to me. And lets think about this for a moment.....
GW tells me nothing about new releases. So how could I talk about them, discuss them, or post an image of them? I can only discuss rumors, re-post unofficial images, or speculate on rumors. Unless I, as a store owner, discuss NOTHING AT ALL about GW, and what they might put out, how can I avoid accidentally talking about what might come out ?
Chase wrote:I manage a store and have not received that email.
I imagine it's for actual GW stores, and would get filtered through to indies eventually (if real). I have noticed certain staff get VERY pissy if you even try to talk about something upcoming. GW want the full wrath of their Gestapo to come down on this new fangled Internet and it's free speech.
VermGho5t wrote:Really all it would take is some anonymous store keeper/worker to take captures in a nondescript room and then email through a proxy or post them photos online from behind a proxy. Good luck tracing that GW!
Take pictures in white room on generic folding table.
Go into photo editing software and remove exif data.
GW doesn't want anyone to know that everything in the Dark Angels book will be called DARK******* .....
Dark Missiles from the Dark Launchers shooting into the Dark.
Dark Rounds that cause DARK when they hit a unit forcing them to use the new rule Dark Blindess with is WAY worse than regular blindness or even night fighting.
There's even a section where the Dark Angels team up with Dark Eldar, because you know... they are DARK, and they Brofist across the Dark Eye of Terror (which is WAY darker than the normal Eye of Terror) and fight an army of Dark Apostles who aren't quite Dark enough so they must be purged.
GW is the only company that I know of that thinks marketing is bad for business. They have no presence beyond stores and fan sites, and they do exactly nil to generate interest and excitement among their own fan base (sic). And they wonder why that base is shrinking. Meanwhile other companies promote their games outside the wargaming community, generate buzz, and erode the Warhammer player base. Is this supposed to be some master plan on the part of GW that transcends our measly mortal comprehension?
They used to have sneak-previews, well, more like a single piece of art work of the army that would be released next month on the last page of WD. It wasn't much, but at least it gave you the heads-up as to what army would get released in 30 days. Nowadays there's not even that... Once a month, they simply descend from their ivory tower and grace us with a set of releases and, I suppose, expect us to be grateful that they released anything?
News to me. And lets think about this for a moment.....
Thank you, kind sir.
TalonZahn wrote: There's even a section where the Dark Angels team up with Dark Eldar, because you know... they are DARK, and they Brofist across the Dark Eye of Terror (which is WAY darker than the normal Eye of Terror) and fight an army of Dark Apostles who aren't quite Dark enough so they must be purged.
OK, I can't take it anymore.
Post less things like this in News and Rumors, please.
Chase wrote:I manage a store and have not received that email.
I imagine it's for actual GW stores, and would get filtered through to indies eventually (if real). I have noticed certain staff get VERY pissy if you even try to talk about something upcoming. GW want the full wrath of their Gestapo to come down on this new fangled Internet and it's free speech.
This 'email' is so completely fake. It makes absolutely no sense for GW to threaten a six month ban on the sale of new releases, when that would damage them financially. And the idea that they would threaten this to their OWN STORES is beyond absurd. I imagine any threats made in a real scenario would revolve around firing staff rather than hamstringing their own retail establishments.
Bull dinky. This aint true....that email is hocum in its current format, like a parent having a tantrum. It may be a paraphrased copy of the ACTUAL email at best.
TBH.. I think GW are concerned if anything about their Hobbit stuff, as they will have a lot of the inside scoop on that, so if things get out early it could well effect their relationship with New Line (I wasn't around gaming forums for the LOTR pre-release rumour days) unless of course they've actually seeming done everything in their power to stop it.
Ultimately the only way two people can keep a secret is if they're both dead. So i'd actually say the entire idea about secret developments are flawed from the start.. they'd be better off feeding us things slowly pre-release to reduce our hunts for more info.
kronk wrote:Post less things like this in News and Rumors, please.
I barely post at all, anywhere.
I was just giving pretre what he wanted and tried to lighten the thread a little. Which, this thread should be closed anyway as it's not news or rumors of any value, and the NOT-Rumor has been debunked.
Lighten up Francis.
You can PM me if you want the real version of my response.
1)Company that sells things doesn't like things leaking
2)Solve problem by intentionally selling LESS.
3)???
4)Profit?
Why would anyone buy this? And as previously mentioned, they don't even tell their own store managers anything, let alone indy retailers. So how can they leak that which isn't given?
Chase wrote:I manage a store and have not received that email.
I imagine it's for actual GW stores, and would get filtered through to indies eventually (if real). I have noticed certain staff get VERY pissy if you even try to talk about something upcoming. GW want the full wrath of their Gestapo to come down on this new fangled Internet and it's free speech.
So GW would shut out it's own store for 6 months then, to punish them?
Does the E-mail indicate whether they threw their toys out of the pram before or after they came to this decision? Additionally, now that they’ve successfully spited their face, have they managed to find a surgeon who can reattach their nose?
Mr. Grey wrote:I'm not sure I understand why GW seems so focused on hiding information about new releases. Shouldn't it be the other way around, to hype up potential sales and get customers more exited? It'd be akin to the video game industry blacking out all information about the next AAA title, only to have it drop in stores one day with no warning whatsoever.
As a potential customer, I'd love at least *some* information on what's being released in the months ahead, so that I can plan my hobby budget and start thinking about new unit/army possibilities.
This is what they want to avoid. They do not want you cherry picking what you want to buy. They hope you will go OH! SHINY at every new release and pick it up regardless.
In other words, GW thinks you are dumb.
cute-hydra wrote:It's to protect their market, if they said right in two months time we will be doing a Black Templars release:
Suddenly all the independent moulding companies are marketing a Knight Templar in space insignia pack! So all the people looking to do a new BT army buy the insignia pack cos it's a lot cheaper than the GW conversion pack.
The theory is that if they don't tell anyone what the new release is the competition doesn't have time to prepare.
(not my opinion of whether it's right etc)
C-Hydra
Yeah, but if GW suddenly releases BT shoulder pads that are finecast and/or stupidly expensive, third party companies will still make their own versions, and people will still buy these third-party versions cheaper. I doubt any sort of heads up will affect that.
Howard A Treesong wrote:Getting into Magic the Gathering shows me quite a contrast in approaches. When there's a new release coming for Magic there's a date set well in advance and some little spoilers, and a few weeks before hand the cards for the new set are gradually revealed a few each day. Then a week before the release they support pre-release events in stores everywhere so you can get a few packs of the new set and promotional cards for that specific event. Then they do something similar for the actual release.
GW do none of this. They clamp down on all information until they decide to put it in their monthly sales catalogue. Then the stuff is available on the day if you want to go and buy it.
GW just don't manage any hype or try to engage their customers. Each event from Magic is memorable, they make it eventful and you feel part of something when getting involved, and you get some promotional bits and pieces as extra reward. GW simply don't foster any community with their releases, their White Dwarf is about as exciting as the new Argos catalogue.
I think you know as well as I do that it is impossible for GW to be awesome like WotC. Miniature games and CCG's are too different, TOO DIFFERENT I SAY!
Once again.. does GW not realise that most (if not all) of these independent stores sell items other than GW brand? In between this, the complete lack of info on new releases (which must have made planning anything difficult, even prior to this), and the Finecast quality control issues, it is almost like they want to stop anything other than their own stores selling their goods. And you have to ask, is that the plan?
If I were a store owner and received this kind of desultory bull-crap, it would make me put every effort I could into getting my clientele into playing other games.
This is all so GW will keep 'Smaug' a secret as long as humanly possible for the new hobbit movies since there is a good chance GW will have to see the model and produce prototypes long before the public sees images of him.
If New Wave is forcing secrecy on GW... then this is what they have to do to keep the people whose licenses they hold happy. Doesn't seem unreasonable in the slightest. We all *KNOW* why GW is doing this... people just want to piss and moan about it.
If you are a store owner, and you have access to proprietary trade secrets... keep it to yourself and everything will be ok?
Noisy_Marine wrote:I'm sure the 5 people who play LotR care deeply about a Smaug model.
No... it isn't the 5 people who play LotR, it is the MILLLIONS of people who want to see the Hobbit movie who won't have any idea what Smaug looks like except for some quick teasers in a trailer, and then a picture of GW's model which shows a highly detailed full version of Smaug is circulated all around the internet before the movie is released and before anyone sees what he looks like, basically being the lone source of a massive spoiler New Wave would rather keep secret.
You know... like last time with the previous movies... when New wave gak a brick... you know the exact reason the current policy is in place.
nkelsch wrote:... people just want to piss and moan about it.
Yeah. I'm sure that's the reason.
And store owners also love being kept in the dark and threatened at the same time. Any who don't just want to 'piss and moan'.
nkelsch wrote:No... it isn't the 5 people who play LotR, it is the MILLLIONS of people who want to see the Hobbit movie who won't have any idea what Smaug looks like except for some quick teasers in a trailer, and then a picture of GW's model which shows a highly detailed full version of Smaug is circulated all around the internet before the movie is released and before anyone sees what he looks like, basically being the lone source of a massive spoiler New Wave would rather keep secret.
Yeah, and I'm sure that the vast majority of people who are going to see The Hobbit don't even know that GWexists.
Noisy_Marine wrote:I'm sure the 5 people who play LotR care deeply about a Smaug model.
No... it isn't the 5 people who play LotR, it is the MILLLIONS of people who want to see the Hobbit movie who won't have any idea what Smaug looks like except for some quick teasers in a trailer, and then a picture of GW's model which shows a highly detailed full version of Smaug is circulated all around the internet before the movie is released and before anyone sees what he looks like, basically being the lone source of a massive spoiler New Wave would rather keep secret.
You know... like last time with the previous movies... when New wave gak a brick... you know the exact reason the current policy is in place.
New LINE. Get the name of the company correct that you're white knighting please.
Yeah, and I'm sure that the vast majority of people who are going to see The Hobbit don't even know that GWexists.
Which is why GW's recent model release list is front page on every LotR fansite on the internet... Sure they have never heard of them. Don't purposfully be obtuse as we all know the history with the spoilers for LotR...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grimtuff wrote:
nkelsch wrote:
Noisy_Marine wrote:I'm sure the 5 people who play LotR care deeply about a Smaug model.
No... it isn't the 5 people who play LotR, it is the MILLLIONS of people who want to see the Hobbit movie who won't have any idea what Smaug looks like except for some quick teasers in a trailer, and then a picture of GW's model which shows a highly detailed full version of Smaug is circulated all around the internet before the movie is released and before anyone sees what he looks like, basically being the lone source of a massive spoiler New Wave would rather keep secret.
You know... like last time with the previous movies... when New wave gak a brick... you know the exact reason the current policy is in place.
New LINE. Get the name of the company correct that you're white knighting please.
Sorry, Doesn't change the issue at hand... I am not sure why LotR spoilers being squashed is a 'surprise' to you guys, we have all known about this being the motivation behind this policy for a while... and considering the model list that JUST hit and how it totally made the rounds on the internet... not surprised there was a response. It makes perfect sense why this happened even if you don't want to agree with it.
Yeah, and I'm sure that the vast majority of people who are going to see The Hobbit don't even know that GWexists.
Which is why GW's recent model release list is front page on every LotR fansite on the internet... Sure they have never heard of them. Don't purposfully be obtuse as we all know the history with the spoilers for LotR...
Do we really need to draw you a diagram?
The vast majority of people that will see this movie will not go on LOTR fansites and/or be aware of GW's existence. Sure there will be groups that cross over one another, but Johnny-come-lately-cinema-goer has probably never even heard of GW.
Here's the active part of your post. LotR fansites.
The Lord of the Rings movies didn't make their money due to LotR die-hards seeing the film 50 times each. They made their money based on broad appeal. So, as I said, the vast majority of people who will go to see The Hobbit probably don't even know that there is a table top game or that the company making it even exists. More people will probably buy the crappy video game tie-in than will ever know about GW's game.
First of all, (not that I'm protecting them) offenders will not be banned from selling any new releases for 6 months. Rather, for the new six months, they will only be able to start selling new releases at a point 30 days after they are released normally.
Second.....how the flaming hell is GW expecting to police this???!!
I think GW wants us to love them and despair. We love their models, but despair at the prices, information blackouts, and general stupidity of the company. And that there is a LotR reference.
Here's the active part of your post. LotR fansites.
The Lord of the Rings movies didn't make their money due to LotR die-hards seeing the film 50 times each. They made their money based on broad appeal. So, as I said, the vast majority of people who will go to see The Hobbit probably don't even know that there is a table top game or that the company making it even exists. More people will probably buy the crappy video game tie-in than will ever know about GW's game.
That's not obtuse nkelsch. That's reality.
A picture of smaug will be a trending article on every facebook feed in america the same way every other movie spoiler is... The GW model list for the Hobbit has blown up all over the internet.
New Line doesn't want that to happen. Hence the policy... New Line totally is allowed to be paranoid about spoilers, movie companies go to extreme lengths to prevent movie spoilers...
Here's the active part of your post. LotR fansites.
The Lord of the Rings movies didn't make their money due to LotR die-hards seeing the film 50 times each. They made their money based on broad appeal. So, as I said, the vast majority of people who will go to see The Hobbit probably don't even know that there is a table top game or that the company making it even exists. More people will probably buy the crappy video game tie-in than will ever know about GW's game.
That's not obtuse nkelsch. That's reality.
A picture of smaug will be a trending article on every facebook feed in america the same way every other movie spoiler is... The GW model list for the Hobbit has blown up all over the internet.
New Line doesn't want that to happen. Hence the policy... New Line totally is allowed to be paranoid about spoilers, movie companies go to extreme lengths to prevent movie spoilers...
And you and I both know it won't work. There will be a spoiler pic of Smaug. New Line might as well release it on their website and say, "Here it is! It's Smaug! No need for you to see the movie now!"
Just like the reveal of the Helm's Deep stuff ruined The Two Towers and was reported everything and... oh wait no it didn't.
One of us: Did you know that Games Workshop's LotR miniature game revealed the Helm's Deep explosives/Uruk-Hai guys before the movie game out?
Joe Average: What's a Games Workshop?
Even More Average Joe: What's an Uruk-Hai? Is that the dwarf guy? I like the dwarf guy. He's funny and his axe is cool.
New Line doesn't want that to happen. Hence the policy... New Line totally is allowed to be paranoid about spoilers, movie companies go to extreme lengths to prevent movie spoilers...
And you and I both know it won't work. There will be a spoiler pic of Smaug. New Line might as well release it on their website and say, "Here it is! It's Smaug! No need for you to see the movie now!"
And if they find out the source... then those people might have their business impacted. If you are not a business with a trade account or don't have access to trade secrets... who cares?
Sit back and wait for the spoilers and enjoy them when they happen.
Here's the active part of your post. LotR fansites.
The Lord of the Rings movies didn't make their money due to LotR die-hards seeing the film 50 times each. They made their money based on broad appeal. So, as I said, the vast majority of people who will go to see The Hobbit probably don't even know that there is a table top game or that the company making it even exists. More people will probably buy the crappy video game tie-in than will ever know about GW's game.
That's not obtuse nkelsch. That's reality.
And let's face it, it's not like the die-hards will stop going to see the movie 50 times each if they get an early shot of Smaug anyway.
nkelsch wrote:If you are not a business with a trade account or don't have access to trade secrets... who cares?
I'm sorry, you keep saying this. Since when did White Dwarf and the contents it contains (which is partially what this policy is to stop, Indies getting their WD's early and can thus put up pre orders early) become a "trade secret"? If you think WD should be classed as such you're really at the GW sack more than I thought.
Honestly, most of this is just restricting the sale of product prior to the street date. Something stores should be doing anyway if that is the wishes of the parent company.
It is similar to what other companies have on releases. It's why stores hold a midnight draft for new magic sets.
Because prior to the street date stores are restricted from selling it and you don't want to be caught as a store selling Magic early. Other high demand products have similar restrictions on release and sale.
Coming on the heels of the release of 6th edition where there was a wide disparity between when people got copies. Along with a good deal of negative feedback towards GW on why so and so has the book 2 days earlier when I pre-ordered mine and it's still not here, etc.. I can see GW adopting a more formal and restrictive sales process for new releases.
Weird how so many internet neckbeards have better marketing techniques than a profit making public company. I assume you guys are all on mega salaries.
While I don't really care enough to enter the argument completely, that's not a logically sound argument.
Just because a company is making a profit doesn't mean that it is doing so in an efficient and effective way. It could be making a profit DESPITE its practices, based off of a different variable.
That's true, but given the amount of highly skilled marketing people there are floating around, it's unlikely that GW's marketing strategy is ineffective.
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Ehsteve wrote:
Kroothawk wrote:
Be aware that discussing Dakka rumours instore is now a capital crime not tolerated by GW management. Thank you for your cooperation
Remind me how we're all benefitting again?
Remember everyone, buying GW models is a sacred priviledge.
I am astounded by the new levels of paranoia in GWHQ.
Yeah, why the hell wouldn't they want to be sued by New Line Cinema? Pussies.
Testify wrote:Weird how so many internet neckbeards have better marketing techniques than a profit making public company. I assume you guys are all on mega salaries.
GW is tiny midget of a company. Their relative market cap and yearly revenue is less than a single Super Walmart location.
I'll trust the 100+ year proven marketing approach of the established companies out there who know that building excitement in advance is a good thing.
Testify wrote:Weird how so many internet neckbeards have better marketing techniques than a profit making public company. I assume you guys are all on mega salaries.
GW is tiny midget of a company. Their relative market cap and yearly revenue is less than a single Walmart location.
I'll trust the 100+ year proven marketing approach of the established companies out there who know that building excitement in advance is a good thing.
Well okay...what percentage of people watching tv are going to buy a sofa in the next year or so? Maybe about 10%.
What percentage of people watching tv are going to buy tabletop minitures? 1%? 0.1%? Less?
There simply aren't enough media streams available that would offer a decent rate of return, with the exception of a miniature-based magazine like, you know...White Dwarf.
And GW's revenue is ~£140m. Any company with a revenue that large is going to be damn sure they know what they're doing.
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Melissia wrote:
Testify wrote:That's true, but given the amount of highly skilled marketing people there are floating around,
At OTHER companies.
I could find 2 or 3 unemployed marketing graduates in my facebook friends alone. People skilled in marketing are hardly hard to come by.
Testify wrote:
Well okay...what percentage of people watching tv are going to buy a sofa in the next year or so? Maybe about 10%.
What percentage of people watching tv are going to buy tabletop minitures? 1%? 0.1%? Less?
There simply aren't enough media streams available that would offer a decent rate of return, with the exception of a miniature-based magazine like, you know...White Dwarf.
*facepalm* My point has nothing to do with traditional advertising mediums like television commercials, but proven marketing approaches.
GW has the opportunity for all sorts of online buzz. People into miniature games are often tech savvy and likely to use social media. Other companies would kill for that kind of an audience and would gladly feed information to bloggers and certain well followed twitter accounts.
However you have to advertise to get people excited about your product in advance, you do it.
You're the one who insulted a bunch of people and pointed to GW's profitability as proof that no one here could be right in criticizing GW's approach. I simply pointed out that GW is a tiny company and their approach flies in the face of how products have been successfully sold for over a century.
If GW wants less people to talk about their product over a smaller period of time, that's their choice.
Yeah it's a shame they haven't released youtube video spoilers or anything. Double shameful they haven't used modern media like, i dunno, facebook, in order to plug this directly to the user.
Yeah, I'm sure Testify's unemployed, inexperienced, fresh graduate friends could revolutionize GW's marketing. But I think GW is full up on marketing folks who don't know what they are doing right now.
I don't know, I kind of like their current marketing scheme. It's allowed me to ignore the hype they created before (when I did buy just about every army they came out with, because of the hype and early looks at the models) and instead of saving some of my hobby money for them, I gladly spend it on other companies who are giving me lots of pre-release information...
Well for apparent lack of excitement that surrounds GW new releases there is a lot of blogs, forums, miniature websites (including retailers) that talk a lot about the new releases even through the appraent lack of " marketing".
I think GW have cornered their marketing perfectly with marketing designed to get all the involved parties discussing the upcoming releases, every releases everyone bemoans GW's "stoopid marketing" , but there is a lot of hubbub about it and everyone still buys their crack. I think they have the internet using wargamers figured out. let them hype themselves into a mouth frothing frenzy then let me at it on release. I don't think gw cares if you hate them as long as you like their minis and you are motivated enought to buy them which I think everyone is.
I think many small miniature gaming companies would sacrifice a small child if they could even get partial access to the hordes that GW could have if they acted like it was 1998 again.
frozenwastes wrote:Not make stupid policies and threaten their independent retailers with penalties that will make both of them less money?
That's not a marketing policy, try again.
(Also, are you serious? You think a company should just ignore leaks? Even when that means being sued by New Line Cinema?)
I'm facepalming again. It's like we're not even talking about the same thing.
Leaks come from inside. An independent stockist should never be able to leak anything because anything sent to them should be stuff ready for public consumption.
And yes, it should be a marketing policy to not threaten your independent stockists with penalties if they tell their customers about upcoming products.
I think Privateer has a pretty good model. Every day they post an "insider" article that has some sort of information about their products or events. Then they post preview pictures of models that are not going to be released for some time. Then they have pictures again of what the new releases actually are. I know local stores have big preorders already for some of the Hordes Gargantuans that don't even have prices or product codes yet.
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spiraleddie wrote:Well for apparent lack of excitement that surrounds GW new releases there is a lot of blogs, forums, miniature websites (including retailers) that talk a lot about the new releases even through the appraent lack of " marketing".
I think GW have cornered their marketing perfectly with marketing designed to get all the involved parties discussing the upcoming releases, every releases everyone bemoans GW's "stoopid marketing" , but there is a lot of hubbub about it and everyone still buys their crack. I think they have the internet using wargamers figured out. let them hype themselves into a mouth frothing frenzy then let me at it on release. I don't think gw cares if you hate them as long as you like their minis and you are motivated enought to buy them which I think everyone is.
GW has had a good year, but they're still way, way down from their heights. Their after inflation growth is less than a percent for 2011-2012.
And people don't just keep buying. If you factor in the price increases and look at their yearly revenue, their sales of individual units sold has likely halved over the last 8 years or so. Less people are buying less. GW then increases the price to make up the difference and make a bit more money. The cycle repeats year over year.
There are tons of life-long hobbyists out there that would make great customers for GW, but they've chosen to go after the kiddy market. They expect the majority of their customers to never play the rules (Jervis in 2008 called these people "craft hobbyists" and said they make up two thirds of their customers) and they expect people to quit within a couple years of their first purchase as they discover girls and beer and the like.
People will indeed still talk about their product, but now they're going to be talking about it for a shorter period of time, and by extension, with fewer people. Local stores can no longer drum up sales for future releases in advance. Instead they have to wait until GW says it's okay, and then they'll have to compete with GW direct as the first exposure to the new models will be GW's website and White Dwarf.
Frozenwastes - Honestly man I think we're being trolled. I can't explain it any other way. Best to just ignore him for the time being lest the smell of red herring rub off on us.
From August 17th, Games Workshop are changing their trade terms. This will effect the way that New Release information will be handled.
After August 17th, any shop selling White Dwarf or any New release item before the release date, discussing New Release information or posting images on Facebook, forums etc before release date will be punished by not being allowed to stock New Releases for 6 months !
I have no problem with this. The people at GWS retail stores are employees of the company, and doing the things above significantly weaken the strategy of the corporation they work for.
I'm not defending the strategy, it's utterly asinine. But it's not for the toes to question where the foot walks.
Question - the email specifically singles out trade accounts. I have several newsagents near me that always release white dwarf as soon as it arrives, which is generally a week before. Would they be trade accounts? Because there's a hell of a lot of them for GW to try and monitor.
I think White Dwarf distribution is mostly managed through the folk they get to do their publishing. As in, the non-GW company you ring up when you want to get your subscription changed in some form.
Of course, if GW if GW realises that white dwarf is out a week early some places then they might start clamping down on that.
From August 17th, Games Workshop are changing their trade terms. This will effect the way that New Release information will be handled.
After August 17th, any shop selling White Dwarf or any New release item before the release date, discussing New Release information or posting images on Facebook, forums etc before release date will be punished by not being allowed to stock New Releases for 6 months !
I have no problem with this. The people at GWS retail stores are employees of the company, and doing the things above significantly weaken the strategy of the corporation they work for.
I'm not defending the strategy, it's utterly asinine. But it's not for the toes to question where the foot walks.
Erm ... that is for their trade customers, i.e. independent stores. And restricting free speech of customers is not a small thing.
If a store gets suspended from selling GW products the only thing that will happen is GW losing sales and customers switching to other miniature games that store owners will then promote instead of 40K/WHF. The effect of impulse buys is underestimated massively here.
I understand GW doesn't want stuff to come out ahead of time, and they are entitled to that, but as usual they are being morons about it. These leaks only happen in the first place because GW doesn't preview a decent damn's worth of anything. How many times can one shoot himself in the foot and not learn from it?
They way GW is set up is by having their Trade Sales department and Mail Order departments buy their stock from GW manufacturing (many companies work this way).
This means that their own Mail Order department is a trade account and is breaching the rules set out in that letter/email by posting product a week before the release.
It might sound like I'm taking the piss but this will provide retailers with a good starting point to fight this nonsense.
Despite having personal experience of stores where GW came down like a big sack of ... erm.. spuds on independent retailers in the past, trying to drive them out of business in the 90's, and having heard many other accounts of the same thing there has often been a fair amount of disbelief from others with no experience of it to question if and whyGW would do such a thing.
I hope this document puts any such questions about the mindset of the company we are dealing with here to rest, and the level of self-importance and aggrandisement they must possess. And as I have said, it is completely failing to consider that these independent retailers, who have supported GW closely for so long for mutual benefit, actually have a massive range of other manufacturers to fall back on.
This kind of trick is reminiscent of the way that GW treated independents in the 90's - 'you need us more than we need you, now put up or shut up' attitude can only serve to polarise the independent retailers against them, much as the crappy ordering system and quality control issues of Finecast have done more recently.
Pacific wrote:the level of self-importance and aggrandisement they must possess.
So trying to enforce a valid agreement is a sign of self-importance now?
Look, I don't like the info embargo one bit, but if it's there, GW has the right to ask people who agreed to conform to their rules to actually do so in reality.
Pacific wrote:the level of self-importance and aggrandisement they must possess.
So trying to enforce a valid agreement is a sign of self-importance now?
Look, I don't like the info embargo one bit, but if it's there, GW has the right to ask people who agreed to conform to their rules to actually do so in reality.
This.
I like their "tight-policy" as little as anyone from a "hobbyist perspective". But its their show and noone is forcing you to sell their stuff.
Can you imagine what happens to an authorized Apple-dealer that breaks their security to spoil Tim Cook's next "surprise reveal" of the iPone5 or whatever...
(and while we're at it, Apple seems to be another company that has done reasonably well with a "keep your secrets close" policy... against all dakka-marketing wisdom).
Well, that was the point I was trying to make really. 15+ years ago when GW was heavy handed with independents the latter had no other options really.. yes there were some, and I know many tried to take the D&D or even model railway routes instead and move away from wargaming, but they had to put up or shut up with the policies.
In 2012 the situation is very much different. The wolves are sniffing around at the door, and the kind of policies doled out with this and others over the last year or so are giving more encouragement than ever for that independent shop owner to open that door and let them in.
His Master's Voice - yes, this is absolutely GW's right. But, I'm trying to make the point that it might ultimately be a bit self-defeating in view of the wider wargaming industry and GW's position within it.
ceorron wrote:Well I think this only proves one thing and that the list released to the net with the Hobbit info and future 40k releases is true.
This is a clear reaction to that information release.
GW will be absolutely fuming, smoke out of the ears. Really the information is being polite with it as it isn't speaking to the guilty party.
There will no doubt have fired a few over this.
Not that I'm doubting you or anything but the news of this "tightening of the leaks" as it were dropped a couple of days before the 40k/Hobbit goldmine. Unless GW was aware that something got out before it hit the net.
Zweischneid wrote:(and while we're at it, Apple seems to be another company that has done reasonably well with a "keep your secrets close" policy... against all dakka-marketing wisdom).
This is WAY off mark here.
Apple doesn't do well because they are all "secretive and shiz" with their upcoming stuff.
Apple sells you an image, a lifestyle change, and not their product. They tell you if you by a Mac, you're cool and are a rebel for not buying into PC, Android, or that "junk" that everyone else uses. So if you want to be a unique snowflake that's special, and let everyone know it, buy Apple products! They are the "nice" company and not that big, evil Microsoft. The irony is that Apple is just as big and Evil as Microsoft, if not more.
However, I agree that FLGS should not break street date selling of items. They should be allowed to advertise upcoming stuff. It doesn't make much sense that GW stores can have a launch party planned/advertised ahead of time, and then tell FLGS they can't do the same.
Kroothawk wrote:Erm ... that is for their trade customers, i.e. independent stores. And restricting free speech of customers is not a small thing.
Thank you for the clarification. That being said, it doesn't change my mind that they are well within their rights to do this. The retailers are always welcome to walk away and not carry GWS if they do not like the terms. If they accept the contract, they also accept the terms that come with it (ie, diminished speech).
I see the posted rules as utterly and wholly reasonable pursuant to their corporate strategy regarding new releases. Again, I think it's a stupid strategy, but that's their right.
ceorron wrote:GW will be absolutely fuming, smoke out of the ears.
Which is funny, because knowing that Tau might be close to release (if the models spoiled were indeed a second wave) has helped keep me around a little longer. I did buy the 6th edition rulebook but I'm not exactly happy with the changes (contemplated taking it back to the store without even cracking the plastic at one point), and I'm so frustrated by the fact that Dark Eldar are crap now, a mere two years after a new codex and an entire revamp of the miniature line, I was seriously thinking about taking a few Dakka poster's advice and quitting the game for the next 4 years. I mean there have been rumors of Tau getting updated but they seem to keep getting pushed back and I was tired of waiting.
Tau are my favorite army and I'm more than bored with them at this point. I don't know if I'll keep playing or not when they do get updated, I feel like I got burned kinda bad when I bought into Dark Eldar and other than Necrons I can't think of any xenos that got updates during 5th that were actually worth a gak after the fact (Tyranids aren't, and uh...wait, really, was that it? Who else got updated besides DE, Nids, and Necrons, I can't remember.), but I do wanna see the new models at least.
I mean yeah, there's that whole New Line thing, that's bad news, but I can't be the only one who saw some of the new stuff and felt genuine excitement for once. It doesn't rival the kind of feeling when Dark Eldar were getting shown off at Games Day for me, but it's pretty much the high point of the past couple of years so it's close enough, lol.
My local store was explaining this new policy to us last week, mostly focusing on how the Game Palor down the street was continually breaking street dates, accepting preorders before product was officially announced, and what not.
Part of me though "okay this sort of makes sense."
Another part said "why don't you just announce stuff before rumors start flying?"
Zweischneid wrote:(and while we're at it, Apple seems to be another company that has done reasonably well with a "keep your secrets close" policy... against all dakka-marketing wisdom).
This is WAY off mark here.
Apple doesn't do well because they are all "secretive and shiz" with their upcoming stuff.
Apple sells you an image, a lifestyle change, and not their product. They tell you if you by a Mac, you're cool and are a rebel for not buying into PC, Android, or that "junk" that everyone else uses. So if you want to be a unique snowflake that's special, and let everyone know it, buy Apple products! They are the "nice" company and not that big, evil Microsoft. The irony is that Apple is just as big and Evil as Microsoft, if not more.
However, I agree that FLGS should not break street date selling of items. They should be allowed to advertise upcoming stuff. It doesn't make much sense that GW stores can have a launch party planned/advertised ahead of time, and then tell FLGS they can't do the same.
That is one part of it, but not all. (Just like GW isn't "just" secrecy).
Apple has also ALWAYS been about making a buzz. Old Steve Jobs "new-product-presentation" were virtually staged circus shows. Thousands upon thousands of tech-bloggers would count the seconds until Jobs went up his stage and then stream his every word across the net. When some time ago an iPhone3 or iPhone4 (cant remember) was found "pre-release", it created a huge splash.
Sure, Apple does more than "just" keep its release-pipeline tight. But it does as well consider a "no-leaks-before-we-release" it a very important aspect of its product launch- and marketing strategy.
So your grand strategy, the thing that Games Workshop is doing wrong...genuinely is clamping down on leaks? Despite the fact that they've been in trouble before for leaking things with the LOTR? Do you also critisise them for charging for their products? Or paying a wage to their staff?
And *you* are calling *me* a troll?
I'm sorry but if your idea of marketing is to allow leaks, it somewhat invalidates your critisism of GW's marketing.
I'm wondering why requiring stores to keep street date is a bad thing? People do realize that there are actual heavy financial penalties for releases videos early right? Costs that basically make it unreasonable to release early as any gains and then some are eaten by the penalty.
As for the advertising early since most stores don't know for sure what's coming out before the white dwarf comes in I'm again not seeing the issue. Just don't take pre-orders based on rumors and it's not an issue. Funny how there are so many tales of woe on here but the store owners I know geniunely like GW Direct and are very happy with them as a distributor.
Releases are revealed a week before release on the GW website (as it is now) and each month a handfull of random shops (chosen by the trade sales team) will receive a single model, part of a model or sprue a week in advance of the website reveal.
That way we as the customer will be visiting shops to see if they got a preview, browsing the internet to find pictures and the retailer will feel special because he got a preview to create buzz in his shop.
In this way GW control the "leaks" and what they are.
I know this is just wish-listing, but I like this idea more than a full information black out.
LordofHats wrote:
Another part said "why don't you just announce stuff before rumors start flying?"
Everything has to have an announcement date - that's common practice. Usually in GW's case it seems to be 3-6 months after the product itself is finished and "good to go".
There's little point in announcing something that far in advance of its release, since the week before it's released you'd essentially have to re-announce it.
You also need a comfortable "buffer" period in which you can change something if something else goes horribly wrong.
It's a different league... but Spartan Games kept quiet about the Dystopian Legions game until todays Gen-Con(?) reveal. The game, rules, 4 factions, loads of minis is out in October. So they must've been working on it for a while.
Noone is griping about Spartan Games hurting their customers and the buzz so far seems to be positive by and large.
6 months without products? Yeah, and them there will be a gap, costumers in the area will not have GW products to buy for 6 months. They will obviously buy from other store... no, they will not try new games...
But hey, we all know GW is the only miniatures company in the town... right?
So, who the manager of that stupid company? Every time i try to like GW they show me another reason to dont like them...
It's a different league... but Spartan Games kept quiet about the Dystopian Legions game until todays Gen-Con(?) reveal. The game, rules, 4 factions, loads of minis is out in October. So they must've been working on it for a while.
Noone is griping about Spartan Games hurting their customers and the buzz so far seems to be positive by and large.
You just like to argue for the sake of it don'tcha?
Had Spartan announced said game using GW's timeframe (so, let's say last week of September) you might have a point, but seeing as we're approx 2 months away from release that's ample time to build up hype, just like, I dunno, let's pick another company not entirely at random, Hawk Wargames. GW is an anomaly in this industry.
I firmly believe at some point they have looked at the way Apple does things and goes "Hey we want to be like that" but not looked at why Apple operates the way it does in the industry it is in.
Grimtuff wrote:
Had Spartan announced said game using GW's timeframe (so, let's say last week of September) you might have a point, but seeing as we're approx 2 months away from release that's ample time to build up hype, just like, I dunno, let's pick another company not entirely at random, Hawk Wargames. GW is an anomaly in this industry.
To be fair, 6th edition took everyone by surprise.
No, wait.
Grimtuff wrote:
Had Spartan announced said game using GW's timeframe (so, let's say last week of September) you might have a point, but seeing as we're approx 2 months away from release that's ample time to build up hype, just like, I dunno, let's pick another company not entirely at random, Hawk Wargames. GW is an anomaly in this industry.
To be fair, 6th edition took everyone by surprise.
No, wait.
So then, riddle me this: prior to one week before it's preorder (which was a clusterfeth to begin with) what did GW do in any OFFICIAL CAPACITY to acknowledge it's existence and market it?
Hulksmash wrote:People do realize that there are actual heavy financial penalties for releases videos early right? Costs that basically make it unreasonable to release early as any gains and then some are eaten by the penalty.
Cash flow. Having income means you're getting interest off of it, even if you're having to (possibly) pay a penalty later. Penalties and fees like this are accounted for as "Revenue Adjustments" which will hit the balance sheet later, has no effect on the current period Statement of Cash Flows. They also have the opportunity to shift more units that way.
I feel this news needs some kind of word play on a Star Wars Quote between Leia and Tarkin, something about tightening grips and slipping through fingers.
Grimtuff wrote:
Had Spartan announced said game using GW's timeframe (so, let's say last week of September) you might have a point, but seeing as we're approx 2 months away from release that's ample time to build up hype, just like, I dunno, let's pick another company not entirely at random, Hawk Wargames. GW is an anomaly in this industry.
To be fair, 6th edition took everyone by surprise.
No, wait.
So then, riddle me this: prior to one week before it's preorder (which was a clusterfeth to begin with) what did GW do in any OFFICIAL CAPACITY to acknowledge it's existence and market it?
Hm?
Riddle me this - why spend money on something that's public knowledge? To the extent that redshirts were advising people to hold off buying the 5th edition box set?
Everyone knew 6th was coming. A lot of the rumours may well have been sanctioned leaks - we don't know. What we do know is that, regardless of what GW did or did not do, it was bloody successful. Both the GW's I went into on the day of release had sold out.
It's an horrribly unpleasant policy... but it's an effective one... Deal with it guys... GW is a company that has to sell stuff and they wouldn't do anything that would make them sell less.
GW is not losing customers with the "no-rumours" policy... they are instead gaining.
For example... Rumours caused a 90 euros loss to gw in my case... Some month ago I was wondering about buying the Chaos battleforce but when I saw the rumours I said to myself ... let's wait the starter box and the new chaos minis... Without rumours I would have bought the Chaos Battleforce AND the new starter set (since I would have bought it anyway... knowing its release and contents in advance made me able to avoid another buy)
GW wants to capitalise on the "OH SHINT" factor and impulse buying... they don't want us to have the opportunity to make a "buy plan" because they would sell less stuff...
You're simply wrong. Penalties in the film industry were per film pre-released. For rentals in particular (as this is the industry I was intimately familiar with) as the cost was per film put out so if a small time rental store put out 3 copies of something they got hit for several thousand dollars per copy. You can't make that much money off of this and so it can actually put small time businesses out of business.
And if it was worth it why don't major retailers release early and damn the date? Answer, it's not. The cost is outrageous for a reason.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:I feel this news needs some kind of word play on a Star Wars Quote between Leia and Tarkin, something about tightening grips and slipping through fingers.
Go for it: I already used the one between Vader and Lando.
punkow wrote:
For example... Rumours caused a 90 euros loss to gw in my case... Some month ago I was wondering about buying the Chaos battleforce but when I saw the rumours I said to myself ... let's wait the starter box and the new chaos minis... Without rumours I would have bought the Chaos Battleforce AND the new starter set (since I would have bought it anyway... knowing its release and contents in advance made me able to avoid another buy)
GW wants to capitalise on the "OH SHINT" factor and impulse buying... they don't want us to have the opportunity to make a "buy plan" because they would sell less stuff...
On the flip side I spent about £400 earlier this spring (may into June time) because rumours of 6th saying it was about to drop.
If I didn't know 6th wasn't coming, I wouldn't have got anything, but the chatting about the rumours and info that was being leaked through got my 40K excitement going again, so I splashed out on several things I'd been considering for a while.
Okay I'm one of those who has seen the GW release schedule they've had going for a while now, so I knew 6th was due this year anyways, (as I've noted elsewhere, expect Warhammer 9th in 2014 ) but the chatting about the rumours inspired me to go spend.
Although I should note both our examples are not really any sign of if GW's ploys are working or not.
You just like to argue for the sake of it don'tcha?
Indeed. I am here to argue, see things from different perspectives and hear different arguments.
You, in contrast, seem only interested in having people acknowledge your brilliance and supreme knowledge, as you clearly have already formed the one possible opinion anyone could possible have on this subject it seem.
You're simply wrong. Penalties in the film industry were per film pre-released. For rentals in particular (as this is the industry I was intimately familiar with) as the cost was per film put out so if a small time rental store put out 3 copies of something they got hit for several thousand dollars per copy. You can't make that much money off of this and so it can actually put small time businesses out of business.
And if it was worth it why don't major retailers release early and damn the date? Answer, it's not. The cost is outrageous for a reason.
Actually, I'm not. You asked the "why" I was explaining the accounting side of it on a retailer and the impact of a penaltry can be gamed away through accounting tricks to have no real impact on your balance sheet. Rental agreements are a whole different animal and was not mentioned in your example. And Gamestop and other large gaming retailers break release dates on an a somewhat regular basis depending on the game and the local environments. Mom & Pop shops are an entirely different kind of organization from a major retailer as well and the penalties for a crafty M&P shop will be pretty much nothing. Get one who can't game the contract and the system, yeah they're likely hosed.
Testify wrote:
So your grand strategy, the thing that Games Workshop is doing wrong...genuinely is clamping down on leaks? Despite the fact that they've been in trouble before for leaking things with the LOTR? Do you also critisise them for charging for their products? Or paying a wage to their staff?
And *you* are calling *me* a troll?
I'm sorry but if your idea of marketing is to allow leaks, it somewhat invalidates your critisism of GW's marketing.
This.... just doesn't make any sense.
I think we're having a failure of communication here. Like we're not even in the same conversation.
Stop trying to win the Internet message board game and actually take the time to understand what people are saying.
I'm saying that leaks are an internal issue. Nothing that gets sent to an independent retailer or distributor should be considered secret. It's already leaving Games Workshop PLC and going to another legal entity. GW's attempt to control what another party does with information they get from GW (ie., the policy not to talk about new releases until they appear in White Dwarf and the pre-order date rolls around) is ridiculous.
When people have criticized GW's approach, you've gone onto a crazy tangent that if you criticize something, you have to offer up a fully developed alternative. That's just not reasonable or logical.
So that's why everyone you've been talking to has just been pointing at general proven marketing approaches that have held up for over a century. I even gave an example (Privateer Press) of a miniatures company that is pursuing such a strategy where they share things in all sorts of stages of development and availability. There are distributors who publish their future products sometimes five months ahead of time and PP doesn't try to stop them because they know that people talking about their products is a good thing for sales.
I don't know what more you want here. Or even really what your point is anymore. I don't know why you brought up paying staff or changing products. It literally makes no sense in the context of anything either of us has said.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Testify wrote:
Riddle me this - why spend money on something that's public knowledge? To the extent that redshirts were advising people to hold off buying the 5th edition box set?
Everyone knew 6th was coming. A lot of the rumours may well have been sanctioned leaks - we don't know. What we do know is that, regardless of what GW did or did not do, it was bloody successful. Both the GW's I went into on the day of release had sold out.
You just made the case for a successful product launch that included lots of advance knowledge and speculation.
Under the current policy if an independent store would have told their customer that 6th edition was over and that starter wasn't the best buy, GW would sanction them and not ship them new releases until a month after their release date for 6 months.
People knew about 6th edition in advance-- in advance of the pre-order date-- and it sold well (atleast in the two GWs you went to). So why sanction people for talking about it in advance?
Testify wrote:
So your grand strategy, the thing that Games Workshop is doing wrong...genuinely is clamping down on leaks? Despite the fact that they've been in trouble before for leaking things with the LOTR? Do you also critisise them for charging for their products? Or paying a wage to their staff?
And *you* are calling *me* a troll?
I'm sorry but if your idea of marketing is to allow leaks, it somewhat invalidates your critisism of GW's marketing.
This.... just doesn't make any sense.
I think we're having a failure of communication here. Like we're not even in the same conversation.
Stop trying to win the Internet message board game and actually take the time to understand what people are saying.
I'm saying that leaks are an internal issue. Nothing that gets sent to an independent retailer or distributor should be considered secret. It's already leaving Games Workshop PLC and going to another legal entity. GW's attempt to control what another party does with information they get from GW (ie., the policy not to talk about new releases until they appear in White Dwarf and the pre-order date rolls around) is ridiculous.
When people have criticized GW's approach, you've gone onto a crazy tangent that if you criticize something, you have to offer up a fully developed alternative. That's just not reasonable or logical.
So that's why everyone you've been talking to has just been pointing at general proven marketing approaches that have held up for over a century. I even gave an example (Privateer Press) of a miniatures company that is pursuing such a strategy where they share things in all sorts of stages of development and availability. There are distributors who publish their future products sometimes five months ahead of time and PP doesn't try to stop them because they know that people talking about their products is a good thing for sales.
I don't know what more you want here. Or even really what your point is anymore. I don't know why you brought up paying staff or changing products. It literally makes no sense in the context of anything either of us has said.
Not even slightly.
What do you think would happen if a games retailer leaked information about the new Call of Duty before launch date? And did so consistently?
Back when I had a job in the heady days of a month ago, I remember being privy to information from other companies that we were expected not to leak - we were only a small company, as were they, so there was no written agreement or anything, but had we leaked that info they wouldn't have dealt with us ever again.
And GW consistently sell out of new releases in their stores. How does that point to a failing marketing strategy?
Testify wrote:Weird how so many internet neckbeards have better marketing techniques than a profit making public company. I assume you guys are all on mega salaries.
Well, I don't really do much strategy work anymore, but I am an experienced, employed, clean-shaven professional advertising copywriter. So am I still the "internet neckbeard" in this conversation, or would that be *you* now?
FWIW, I thought GW was far too liberal in the old days. I'm not a fan of showing off a product until it can be shown in the best possible light. First impressions count too much. You don't see automakers showing off half-finished cars, right? Maybe they show a prototype at a car show. But it's a finished prototype with a mirror-like finish and an attractive model draped all over it. Furthermore, I don't think it makes sense to show off new product too far in advance of its actual release date. So I can't really blame them for making major changes regarding their sneak peaks. Similarly, I tend to agree that they're right not to put much investment into traditional media advertising. The bang for the buck probably isn't there.
But I think it's completely fair to question whether they could do more in the 30 days or so leading up to a major release. There's an old communications axiom that says you can't NOT communicate. A blackout can help you *lose* control of your message, because people will interpret and assign meaning even to absolute silence. I think that by only barely hyping even their biggest releases, GW almost communicates that said releases aren't a big deal, if that makes any sense. Note that with their Space Hulk "mystery box," there *was* an offer being made of some amazing, life-changing product...we just weren't completely sure what it was. It's a fundamentally different approach than a near-blackout.
I also think that their reliance and focus on WD betrays a highly unidirectional and old-fashioned mindset, which might not be the best approach given the age and tech savviness of their average customer. Maybe their digital agency will help here, but agencies are only as good as their clients are willing. So I think the jury will out for quite some time.
It seems ridiculous that GW would have to have this level of secrecy about their products unrelated to the Hobbit. GW's policies almost certainly have to be in place because THEY want them that way. But then sometimes clients/companies make ridiculous demands. So you never know. The deal almost certainly means a lot more to GW than it does to New Line, so GW may be willing to do whatever it takes to appease them, and New Line might be acting like Sauron himself. So while I think it's fair to be critical of their approach to releases, it's also fair to say we may be missing some important information.
punkow wrote:It's an horrribly unpleasant policy... but it's an effective one... Deal with it guys... GW is a company that has to sell stuff and they wouldn't do anything that would make them sell less.
You are not serious, are you? Have you followed the GW business decisions over the last few years? Or the financial reports proving that they indeed sell less products each year (sometimes barely compensated by 10% price increases)?
GW is a company that sells less and less each year, and they don't do anything to change that, deal with it.
Anyway, here a better copy of the letter, provided by williamsond over at Warseer:
"Sensitive release dates"? My personal experience is that the average gamer is not aware of new releases, as there is no advertising. They are surprised when they are informed about a new edition of 40k. Thinking that GW products are perishable products losing value after a week is not what I experience.
Gamesworkshop has to be the most mean-spirited, anti-fanbase company I've come across, though obviously worse exist out there (somewhere).
And yes yes, you can try and explain to me how the Stasi-esque secrecy makes sense from a business standpoint (which is questionable) and how they're making money (which is true). Doesn't change what I said.
Harriticus wrote:Gamesworkshop has to be the most mean-spirited, anti-fanbase company I've come across, though obviously worse exist out there (somewhere).
And yes yes, you can try and explain to me how the Stasi-esque secrecy makes sense from a business standpoint (which is questionable) and how they're making money (which is true). Doesn't change what I said.
Games Workshop - We Really Hate Our Fans, But Love Their Money.
or maybe ...
Games Workshop - We Hate Our Job, But The Shareholders Whip Us!
Harriticus wrote:Gamesworkshop has to be the most mean-spirited, anti-fanbase company I've come across, though obviously worse exist out there (somewhere).
And yes yes, you can try and explain to me how the Stasi-esque secrecy makes sense from a business standpoint (which is questionable) and how they're making money (which is true). Doesn't change what I said.
Games Workshop - We Really Hate Our Fans, But Love Their Money.
or maybe ...
Games Workshop - We Hate Our Job, But The Shareholders Whip Us!
Games Workshop - We wish it was still 1998.
Games Workshop - Pay no attention to the other games behind the counter.
You are not serious, are you? Have you followed the GW business decisions over the last few years? Or the financial reports proving that they indeed sell less products each year (sometimes barely compensated by 10% price increases)?
GW is a company that sells less and less each year, and they don't do anything to change that, deal with it.
Well just goes to show that the corporation is hurting more than it wants the masses to know.
Been saying for quite awhile that they are losing their customer base regardless of their profitability.
Draconian policies are another symptom on just how hard up they are and the inability to adapt to current marketing strategies to make them competitive once again.
I bet the person who sent that out pressed "Send" on their way out the door for two weeks holiday laughing as their oppos would have to deal with the resultant e-mails.
Someone decided it was a policy but a blanket letter is not suitable. How many times have you been wound up by a blanket warning meant for a minority? Warnings should be sent to those who constantly breach release or advance order dates but penalising discussion? A step too far.
gorgon wrote:FWIW, I thought GW was far too liberal in the old days. I'm not a fan of showing off a product until it can be shown in the best possible light. First impressions count too much. You don't see automakers showing off half-finished cars, right? Maybe they show a prototype at a car show. But it's a finished prototype with a mirror-like finish and an attractive model draped all over it. Furthermore, I don't think it makes sense to show off new product too far in advance of its actual release date. So I can't really blame them for making major changes regarding their sneak peaks. Similarly, I tend to agree that they're right not to put much investment into traditional media advertising. The bang for the buck probably isn't there.
All good points. Sneak peaks would be nice, but we don't need to be shown stuff 6 months to a year in advance or anything...2-3 months before release sounds reasonable enough.
I kinda like the previews for Dark Eldar, personally. When the new DE were first revealed it was at Games Day (one of the last times they showed off anything new at Games Day IIRC), and over the course of the next month or so they were showing off concept art and videos on the website with Phil Kelly and Jes Goodwin talking about them. And then when the next wave came out (with the talos I think?) they showed some small "teaser" pics...I think the only part of the talos they showed was the carapace. In any case it wasn't the full model, but it was still something.
Then it turned into an e-mail where they basically just said "Grey Knights in April!", and nothing else until the models were up for advance order. And then...well, you know. :(
gorgon wrote:Note that with their Space Hulk "mystery box," there *was* an offer being made of some amazing, life-changing product...we just weren't completely sure what it was. It's a fundamentally different approach than a near-blackout.
I think Space Hulk could have been handled so much better...hell, revealing it a day or two sooner than they did would have been a huge improvement, because then it would have been something special for Games Day attendees. Could have even set up demos or something at the event.
GW is at Gen-Con right now. It is the largest single gaming convention in the world. With the world of table-top, role-playing, board and card games watching wouldn't now be a fantastic time to promote the hell out of themselves, specifically with the next major release - the new 40K starter set?
FFG had a new card game whose name I can't even recall, and they had a couple of pallets worth sitting on the show floor. They were gone in 9 minutes. Can you imagine how quickly a pile of 40K starter sets would last? Not even half that. And then pics would start showing up online, word of mouth would spread, and then when it goes go up for pre-order next week (25th right?), everyone will be chomping at the bit to put their orders through. It would be a marketing coup for GW, probably their first since the LotR magazine.
Unless I'm missing something - and if I am by all means tell me; I am happy to be proven wrong here - there is no harm in using a massive gaming show and trade convention to push their own product, especially one of the most anticipated releases of the year. And wouldn't they rather have the buzz around their game be the pile of starter sets that was there one minute but gone the next at Gen-Con - the year's fastest seller - than getting annoyed because some chucklehead's gone and scanned some WD pictures of the Chosen models, cropped 'em and put 'em on Warseer?
Please, if I'm wrong tell me, but tell me why I'm wrong.
H.B.M.C. wrote:GW is at Gen-Con right now. It is the largest single gaming convention in the world. With the world of table-top, role-playing, board and card games watching wouldn't now be a fantastic time to promote the hell out of themselves, specifically with the next major release - the new 40K starter set?
FFG had a new card game whose name I can't even recall, and they had a couple of pallets worth sitting on the show floor. They were gone in 9 minutes. Can you imagine how quickly a pile of 40K starter sets would last? Not even half that. And then pics would start showing up online, word of mouth would spread, and then when it goes go up for pre-order next week (25th right?), everyone will be chomping at the bit to put their orders through. It would be a marketing coup for GW, probably their first since the LotR magazine.
Unless I'm missing something - and if I am by all means tell me; I am happy to be proven wrong here - there is no harm in using a massive gaming show and trade convention to push their own product, especially one of the most anticipated releases of the year. And wouldn't they rather have the buzz around their game be the pile of starter sets that was there one minute but gone the next at Gen-Con - the year's fastest seller - than getting annoyed because some chucklehead's gone and scanned some WD pictures of the Chosen models, cropped 'em and put 'em on Warseer?
Please, if I'm wrong tell me, but tell me why I'm wrong.
Once again, GW, you lose out to PP as I'd imagine their Iron Kingdoms RPG is more or less in the lead as fastest sold out thing at Gencon.
Presumably a giant plastic, motorised groin. Fans can pay $50, then go and stand in front of it so it can be repeatedly thrust backwards and forwards into their face. Then they leave... or is that Gamesday?
It probably is a UK thing (the letter is from the UK Trade Team).
Notice the letter is actually about selling before official release dates.
Given at least two independent shops local to me were selling the 6th edition rules book on the Thursday evening and Friday before release (to preordering 'regulars', not the general public), i can actually see why GW are a bit narky about it (whether such pre-selling is a good thing or not from an individual customer's point of view would largely depend upon whether they are one of the 'in-crowd' at a particular shop or not).
Notice the letter is actually about selling before official release dates.
Given at least two independent shops local to me were selling the 6th edition rules book on the Thursday evening and Friday before release (to preordering 'regulars', not the general public), i can actually see why GW are a bit narky about it (whether such pre-selling is a good thing or not from an individual customer's point of view would largely depend upon whether they are one of the 'in-crowd' at a particular shop or not).
Thing is, it's still ridiculously easy to bypass. A GW I once frequented did such a thing with army deals, when they came in on the thursday or friday all you had to do was pay in cash and they kept the box's barcode. Put the cash in the store's safe and scan the barcode through the till on saturday morning as soon as you open. No-one was the wiser.
Got a few army deals this way.
EDIT: Very nice on the new quote tracking function.
Sure, it can be bypassed. But it's surely not a thing to be encouraged -- unless of course you benefit. I know a lot of long time GW customers think they should get some sort of 'loyalty perks' (such as, for instance, getting new codices or rules a day or two early because the manager's their mate).
I don't actually care if folk are getting their books a bit early through slightly shady means -- GW still get their money so it's not like thieving via downloading codex pdfs. but equally i don't think it's unreasonable for GW to discourage this sort of thing either. However I know some people who were a bit narked that some folk were allowed to buy early whereas some (presumably not having passed some subjective measure of mateyness or loyalty) were not offered.
I know why the smaller shops do this, and I actually have some sympathy for them (their customers expect 'loyalty' to be rewarded not only by discounts but also preferential treatment, and if they dd not offer substantial discount and 'perks', they'd struggle to retain their 'loyal' customers. It's not easy being a small independent retailer where the customer is king).
I remember being on the GW boards when I was about 15 (damn that's nearly 9 years ago). People were saying GW was crashing then, too. Despite rising profits
I also fail to see how GW's marketing is rubbish when they sell out of new releases almost immediately. But I guess you guys know better
Testify wrote:I remember being on the GW boards when I was about 15 (damn that's nearly 9 years ago). People were saying GW was crashing then, too. Despite rising profits I also fail to see how GW's marketing is rubbish when they sell out of new releases almost immediately. But I guess you guys know better
1.) People notice that GW sells 5-10% less products for 7 years (barely compensated by price hikes of 10%) and think that this can't be good. They should sell about half the amount of products for about double the price by now, with respectively fewer customers. Noone spoke of an immediate crash, just an objectively happening demise.
2.) Why is selling 10.000 boxes of Space Hulk worse than selling 50.000? Hmmm, that's a tough one 3.) GW does no marketing or advertising. The times they sell best and gain the most new customers are, when others do the marketing and advertising (MB with Space Quest/Heroquest and DeAgostini with LOTR magazine).
Testify wrote: I remember being on the GW boards when I was about 15 (damn that's nearly 9 years ago). People were saying GW was crashing then, too. Despite rising profits
I also fail to see how GW's marketing is rubbish when they sell out of new releases almost immediately. But I guess you guys know better
I have to say the whole "Oh, I suppose you know better then do you?!" (said in Hattie Jacques' voice) every time someone voices an opinion that you don't agree with is starting to wear a little thin Testify. Could you at least try and make a logical argument as to why you think that?
It is possible that GW is making a mistake in not taking the marketing/hype building route. Am I sure about this? No, but my experience is telling me they most likely are, and you could make the argument that their sales would be even higher if they made any attempt to pull their fanbase into new releases. I mean this isn't exactly quantum theory we are dealing with here - the advantages of marketing and promotion of products, of creating a hunger, a desire, in the customer base, are integral components of the free market. Marketing is a massive business, and it would not exist if it was just suspended on half-proven theories and hot air.
But the point is, and I have mentioned this in another thread, and the root of this policy is that GW think they have a monopoly within the wargaming industry. This isn't my own thoughts, but rather the words of GW ex-big wig Rick Priestley, who said as much when he left the company a year ago or so, in an interview with 40K radio. As far as GW are concerned, they are the only company in the 'Hobby'. If you do have a monopoly, then the situation changes massively - the fanbase have no option other than to wait with baited breath for each new release, and as such I think the company would indeed benefit from not warning about upcoming releases, as it could impact the sales of those items already on sale.
But, and this is the key here, the industry has arguably never been less of a monopoly since the late 80's and early 90's when GW became the dominant figure in the fantasy miniature wargaming market. Nowadays some estimates place Privateer Press as having a similar market-share percentage to GW in the US, and the other companies have started to make some serious inroads. To give a personal example, I've heard from a friend at Games Day (who had spoken to one of the sculptors) that GW has had a 'Demiurg' (or otherwise 'dwarf in space' line) sat on the shelf and ready for release for some time. It's an army I've wanted for years, but it just so happens that Mantic have released their Forge Father range which is competing directly for demographic of fans who want dwarves in space suits with laser guns. Had I known GW had their own release coming further down the line, I might well have waited. Similarly, the Daemons release took me completely by surprise and I was kind of annoyed that I hadn't had at least a few weeks heads up. Again, I might have waited, but my 'hobby budget' (or the amount I can spend without going on to a diet of ramyen) had already gone a few weeks previously on the new Dropzone Commander (which was fantastically marketed) and one of the Kickstarters.
So, I think the 'no marketing' idea could be appropriate, but it is predicated and entirely reliant on GW being the only player in the marketplace. The moment that changes, then it completely loses its efficacy, depending on how large you view the demographic of wargaming fans who only know about GW to be. Again, in the age of the internet, I would argue that it has never been smaller.
There are many other pieces of evidence which would seem to corroborate this information: The lack of new games being released, the prices rises far and away above competition, the lack of creation of new technologies, the finecast quality-control issues. There are many more. All of these are evidence of a company that thinks it has nothing to fear from any other company within the industry. Unfortunately for GW this is not the case, and for each one of those things that other companies do 'better', they will lose customers. I for one would love them to realise that they have to fight for their throne - with new and dynamic releases, sensible pricing and release schedules, and really use their size and muscle to try and knock some of these younger upstarts out of the ring. Perhaps fortunately for the likes of Privateer Press, for Corvus Belli and Mantic amongst others, GW have been a little slow on the uptake and with each month that passes those other company's chance of success in the market place becomes more assured.
There are worrying precedents for GW in the gradual fall and decline of the motor industry here in the UK. In the latter's case it didn't happen overnight, and was a long, painful and drawn-out series of myopic management decisions. The similarities are many, and I can only hope (and I genuinely mean this - I want GW to do better) that they catch on to the warning signals faster than the now long deposed bosses of the likes of Austin, Rover and many more, who also thought their companies to be in the dominant position when controlling a massive market share.
My thoughts on the matter in any case, sorry for the bit of a wall o' text!
The bit about the Demiurge is hilarious if true. All these years people have been complaining about Squats and supposedly GW's been sitting on a new range of them the whole time. They were all like, "We could make money off of this .... but NAH."
From August 17th, Games Workshop are changing their trade terms. This will effect the way that New Release information will be handled.
After August 17th, any shop selling White Dwarf or any New release item before the release date, discussing New Release information or posting images on Facebook, forums etc before release date will be punished by not being allowed to stock New Releases for 6 months !
The word in this case should be "affect" not "effect".
Black Library seems to willingly engage in marketing. Their books are regular prizes for published letters in SFX magazine and the latest issue (226) has interviews with Nick Kyme and Gav Thorpe. The artwork for the upcoming Ravenwing novel is reproduced on one page and looks stunning. there is a full page advert for Pariah I fail to see why this approach cannot be used for the actual games and miniatures unless GW's fiction is not covered by any contract with New Line.
Black Library and Forgeworld both seem to treat their business like a traditional business. We often find out about upcoming novel or Forgeworld kits long before they can be preordered.
If you consult GW's financial report, both of these departments outperform the rest of GW.
Soooo not only are they going to punish the GW stores for the leakage that didnt really have to be a secret BUT they are also going to punish us! their own fanbase! Im sorry right, but Every person who gets a games day ticket now has to give a rant on at the people who made whatever THAT letter, and swear that they are going to switch to PP (even if they are not), its they ONLY way they will be able to listen (after all they are punishing/bullying us for their own failures).
Their Stalinist/Illuminati-like secrecy regime has to stop!!!
/Rant over (I apologise for the rant but we cant stand up to bully-company's like GW any longer!!!).
xxRavenxx wrote:Rumor has it that at least two stores had their orders of the new edition refused today for infringing the policy by taking preorders based on the leaked WD.
So... GW evidently means business this time.
www.greendragongames.co.uk wrote:They are indeed sticking to their word! They haven't refused us any orders but we got told not to put the standard edition online or action will be taken, we do however (like most retailers) have the limited edition available, problem-free.
Am I reading this right? Everyone knows there is both a "limited" and a standard edition of 40k, but noone is allowed to advertise the standard edition yet despite being able to advertise the "limited" edition?
Apparently so! GW Logic in full effect. Im sure they have their sales driven reasons behind it.
Testify wrote: I remember being on the GW boards when I was about 15 (damn that's nearly 9 years ago). People were saying GW was crashing then, too. Despite rising profits
I also fail to see how GW's marketing is rubbish when they sell out of new releases almost immediately. But I guess you guys know better
Dude, you're 24?!
With no wish to incite anything I genuinely had you pegged at about 15 from reading your posts in this thread. Suffice to say you appear to have a lot to learn about business and the world of commerce.
The fact is GW has an enviable position in its market. A quality product, a solid fanbase and a rich and complex IP. With very little effort it could simply overwhelm the competition by employing its superior resources.
What puzzles me is why it seems not to want to. Its like that bit in The Karate Kid when Mr Miagi has that bloke at his mercy and hooks his nose.
Even with my modest experience with marketing and business development I am convinced I could do better.
