So one of my FLGS got this letter from GW warning against selling WD's and new Releases before 12:01 Saturday morning.

Hello Everyone,

As many of you already know we are implementing street dates for all of our New Release products as well as the White Dwarf Magazine effective 09/17/2012. These street dates will apply to all new releases and White Dwarf Magazines going forward and will be similar to the street date that everyone saw with the Limited Edition version of Dark Vengeance. All of these products will have a street date of 12:01 AM that Saturday. Until this day and time, these products cannot be sold.

An account that violates a street date will be subject to repercussions that start with losing the ability to purchase all New Releases until 30 days after their release for a time period of 6 months. Outlets that break street dates multiple times could be subject to loss of their account status with Games Workshop.

We are implementing these street dates to drive enthusiastic, excited hobbyists into your brick and mortar store(s). We look forward to helping you capitalize on this excitement. Please contact your Account Manager to discuss how we can help you further.

Thank you for taking the time to read this email and please let us know if you have any questions.

Sincerely,

Games Workshop NAS Trade Sales

So products cannot be sold until their agreed-upon release date...isn't that how it's always been anyway?

More or less. It's just never been enforced too strictly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

We are implementing these street dates to drive enthusiastic, excited hobbyists into your brick and mortar store(s).

Because nothing scores you sales like refusing to sell something to the guy standing in front of you with cash in hand, and telling him to come back tomorrow.

 insaniak wrote:
Because nothing scores you sales like refusing to sell something to the guy standing in front of you with cash in hand, and telling him to come back tomorrow.

Dont advertise that you have product that isn't for sale yet and you wont have that problem.

skarsol wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Because nothing scores you sales like refusing to sell something to the guy standing in front of you with cash in hand, and telling him to come back tomorrow.

Dont advertise that you have product that isn't for sale yet and you wont have that problem.

Regular customers know EXACTLY when their FLGS gets it's shipment, no advertising required.

I don't get how GW would know if the sale was cash. Maybe they got Alpha Legion plants within the stores or something, LOL, but seriously I got a guy at a local videogame shop who sells games when he gets them-you just have to pay cash. Most FLGS could fudge the books until the release date comes through.

this policy has been in place for a while now

 Lordhat wrote:

skarsol wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Because nothing scores you sales like refusing to sell something to the guy standing in front of you with cash in hand, and telling him to come back tomorrow.

Dont advertise that you have product that isn't for sale yet and you wont have that problem.

Regular customers know EXACTLY when their FLGS gets it's shipment, no advertising required.

Regular customers wouldn't complain about their store owner not wanting to get in trouble and, assuming everyone follows street date, it's not like they can buy it elsewhere, so no business lost.

skarsol wrote:

 Lordhat wrote:

skarsol wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Because nothing scores you sales like refusing to sell something to the guy standing in front of you with cash in hand, and telling him to come back tomorrow.

Dont advertise that you have product that isn't for sale yet and you wont have that problem.

Regular customers know EXACTLY when their FLGS gets it's shipment, no advertising required.

Regular customers wouldn't complain about their store owner not wanting to get in trouble and, assuming everyone follows street date, it's not like they can buy it elsewhere, so no business lost.

That's a big assumption.

 Lordhat wrote:
That's a big assumption.

If it ends up being a false assumption, then there's nothing really to worry about then, as the policy will be effectively ignored.

skarsol wrote:
Dont advertise that you have product that isn't for sale yet and you wont have that problem.

The stack of boxes with the GW logo on them that the courier just wheeled in on a trolley might be a bit of a giveaway.

Or that outdated way of finding out if a store has received something yet by asking if they have it yet. To which the answer is going to be; Yes, but I can't sell it to you until tomorrow. Which is stupid.

Set street dates don't actually accomplish anything useful for anybody concerned, unless you have a limited release product that is going to sell out fast. For a normal release, the only side-effect of selling, say, a White Dwarf magazine the day before the 'official' release is that somebody has a copy of White Dwarf the day before its official release date. It's not exactly going to stop the Earth's core from spinning.

The bottom line is it's GW making more PR decisions that make me wonder if they even have a marketing department or if they're just frakking stupid. Maybe a bunch of monkeys in suits, I don't know.

No, from GW's (limited) point of view, it does make sense.

If Johnny public can go to his FLGS on a Friday and pick up his shinies then, what reason does he have to go into his nearest GW store and get them on the Saturday?

However, if, like me, the FLGS sells at prices lower than the GW store, Johnny will just wait until Saturday and still get them in his FLGS.

Despite GW thinking this is a smart move, it's still not doing them any favours!

I really don't see too mich of a problem here. No one bitches when movies have to come out on a certain date, and mamy film distributors monitor DVD sales very tightly.

The only problem I see is rival stores reporting each other to GW to gain local market advantage.

Videogames also have street dates. It's funny watching (via the internet) as one retailer or another breaks the date for a game, then they all go for it once word gets out. Funny how EA, Activision, Ubisoft, despite being much larger than GW can't push their retailers around. Unlike GW, which relies on their retailers predominantly being small niche hobby stores which they can bully. Also why GW got laughed out of Wal-Mart during negotiations to stock their product years ago...

 Lordhat wrote:
So one of my FLGS got this letter from GW warning against selling WD's and new Releases before 12:01 Saturday morning.

Hello Everyone,

As many of you already know we are implementing street dates for all of our New Release products as well as the White Dwarf Magazine effective 09/17/2012. These street dates will apply to all new releases and White Dwarf Magazines going forward and will be similar to the street date that everyone saw with the Limited Edition version of Dark Vengeance. All of these products will have a street date of 12:01 AM that Saturday. Until this day and time, these products cannot be sold.

An account that violates a street date will be subject to repercussions that start with losing the ability to purchase all New Releases until 30 days after their release for a time period of 6 months. Outlets that break street dates multiple times could be subject to loss of their account status with Games Workshop.

We are implementing these street dates to drive enthusiastic, excited hobbyists into your brick and mortar store(s). We look forward to helping you capitalize on this excitement. Please contact your Account Manager to discuss how we can help you further.

Thank you for taking the time to read this email and please let us know if you have any questions.

Sincerely,

Games Workshop NAS Trade Sales

Thats nothing. Standard issue form letter.

Funny how "The Hobby" wants to tell someone how to run thier business, though.

Want to tell me exactly how I can't play in a tourny because I don't use GW paint, now? LOL....

Question I would ask is- SO by this letter, ARE we going to get a direct delivery date that is going to be getting our products in on time, then, or are we going to get the SOP delay excuses as to how I can't have a magazine or product on the rack by the release dates....?

as with limits on products....

to think of a few.

 Lordhat wrote:

skarsol wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Because nothing scores you sales like refusing to sell something to the guy standing in front of you with cash in hand, and telling him to come back tomorrow.

Dont advertise that you have product that isn't for sale yet and you wont have that problem.

Regular customers know EXACTLY when their FLGS gets it's shipment, no advertising required.

Then they also know EXACTLY when the release date will be, no advertising required, so blaming Games Workshop for them coming in before that date and expecting special treatment is nonsensical.

This is standard practice for videogames, and has been for years. Crikey videogame publishers go after the customers who play games before the release date, nevermind the stores.

 scipio.au wrote:
Videogames also have street dates. It's funny watching (via the internet) as one retailer or another breaks the date for a game, then they all go for it once word gets out. Funny how EA, Activision, Ubisoft, despite being much larger than GW can't push their retailers around. Unlike GW, which relies on their retailers predominantly being small niche hobby stores which they can bully. Also why GW got laughed out of Wal-Mart during negotiations to stock their product years ago...

Yeah, that's the way of it, all those stores follow the initial store in breaking the release date because they're all such badass rebels.

What a load of nonsense. Do you have any idea the hectic scramble that goes on at the retailers' various HQ's as they desperately seek the permission of the publisher to break the date when a competitor does it? Do you have any idea of the penalties they have to deal with if they don't ask permission? When a Retailer breaks a street date for a game, it always traces back to the machinations of some donkey-cave Regional Manager or incompetent store staff, sadly only the store staff ever seem to lose their jobs over it.

So what are we talking about here? 24/ 48 hours before official release dates?

These street dates will apply to all new releases and White Dwarf Magazines going forward and will be similar to the street date that everyone saw with the Limited Edition version of Dark Vengeance.

I think GW corporate just likes to have the image in their heads of legions of crazed fanboys lined up outside stores anxiously awaiting their releases.

Sorry GW, if you want that response to your products start selling console games or Apple products.

We are implementing these street dates to drive enthusiastic, excited hobbyists into your brick and mortar store(s).

That sounds pretty, but its not actually true. We always get our shipments on Friday and had never gotten pushback on selling as soon as we got them, but now that a GW store is opening in our area the sell-on date is being enforced. We have no problem with this, but this policy isn't doing anything to help *our* brick and mortar store - its to help *their* brick and mortar store.

We were open til midnight on Fridays anyway, now we'll be open til 1am and just sell the new stuff then.

 scipio.au wrote:
Videogames also have street dates. It's funny watching (via the internet) as one retailer or another breaks the date for a game, then they all go for it once word gets out. Funny how EA, Activision, Ubisoft, despite being much larger than GW can't push their retailers around. Unlike GW, which relies on their retailers predominantly being small niche hobby stores which they can bully. Also why GW got laughed out of Wal-Mart during negotiations to stock their product years ago...

Lol. They do bully retailers. As the UK retailer game lol

 scipio.au wrote:
Videogames also have street dates. It's funny watching (via the internet) as one retailer or another breaks the date for a game, then they all go for it once word gets out. Funny how EA, Activision, Ubisoft, despite being much larger than GW can't push their retailers around. Unlike GW, which relies on their retailers predominantly being small niche hobby stores which they can bully. Also why GW got laughed out of Wal-Mart during negotiations to stock their product years ago...

I was not aware of that. GW tried to push into Wal-Mart? That would have been huge in terms of sales number for them, no? Imagine the dividends then...

 Conrad Turner wrote:
No, from GW's (limited) point of view, it does make sense.

If Johnny public can go to his FLGS on a Friday and pick up his shinies then, what reason does he have to go into his nearest GW store and get them on the Saturday?

However, if, like me, the FLGS sells at prices lower than the GW store, Johnny will just wait until Saturday and still get them in his FLGS.

Despite GW thinking this is a smart move, it's still not doing them any favours!

No....
It doesn't matter to GW where you buy your models; a GW store or an independant, as long as you're buying them. If GW were so against indies why do they insist on expanding their trade accounts year after year..?

GW want a single release date for their new models, books etc. They want to do it because it builds excitement / enthusiasm for that day and they can make a big deal of it.
Is it such a big problem for indies to respect the wishes of the company who's product they're selling and release it on that day?

 scipio.au wrote:
Videogames also have street dates. It's funny watching (via the internet) as one retailer or another breaks the date for a game, then they all go for it once word gets out. Funny how EA, Activision, Ubisoft, despite being much larger than GW can't push their retailers around. Unlike GW, which relies on their retailers predominantly being small niche hobby stores which they can bully. Also why GW got laughed out of Wal-Mart during negotiations to stock their product years ago...

Its not usually major retaillers that break street dates rather that it happanes at store level through poorly trained staff and the customers that prey on here to help doris when they they know COD: Grand Theft Mario is due out. Indies have been very guilty of breaking street dates on high profile releases, they usually get punished in some way, but a lot buy grey anyeway.

I cant see GW breaking its own street dates, apart from some store managers jumping the gun, so FLGS should abide by the same conditions.

TBF pulishers got around indies breaking street dates by delivering on day of release, Imagine GW organising that!

I don't have a problem with this. I think their no-leaks strategy is dumb and stupid and impossible to boot, but nonetheless they made a strategic business decision that this is how they want to do it; and the vendors they sell them to agree to this when they agree to carry GWS merchandise. It's not any more outrageous then when EA started sending games later to Gamestops that were known to break street dates; a wholly reasonable thing to do.

 Lorizael wrote:
Is it such a big problem for indies to respect the wishes of the company who's product they're selling and release it on that day?

When it results in turning away sales because of some arbitrary sales cut-off, yes, it's a problem. Making it harder for people to sell your product is never a good thing.

If GW really want to make sure that product is not sold before a particular date, all they have to do is not deliver it until that date. I work in the transport industry... delivering on a specific date is not exactly an unusual set-up.

Penalizing retailers because they're too lazy to co-ordinate their own deliveries? That way lies madness.

This is basically people with ridiculous things that only make sense to them coming into conflict with the other.

Seems perfectly acceptable, if the manufacture and holder of your trade account tells you that the release day for this release is "x" whats the problem? would apple have done any different if they found O2 offering the Iphone5 a few days before official release day? it levels the field, its much worse in the UK, indies are not allowed to take pre orders before GW launch there own pre orders because certain companies use the leaks from WD to get the drop of GW .
Dont forget GW hates indies and if they could they would drop them like a bad smell,the fact they havent managed to force more of them out of selling GW stock for a discount still amazes me.

 insaniak wrote:
More or less. It's just never been enforced too strictly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

We are implementing these street dates to drive enthusiastic, excited hobbyists into your brick and mortar store(s).

Because nothing scores you sales like refusing to sell something to the guy standing in front of you with cash in hand, and telling him to come back tomorrow.

NO, it hasn't been like this. And there was no enforcement because FLGS in the US were told for decades that they could put product out as soon as they got it.

The street date was only for GW stores. I asked about this every year and made sure of the rules.

They just changed the rules.

 swordwind99 wrote:
Seems perfectly acceptable, if the manufacture and holder of your trade account tells you that the release day for this release is "x" whats the problem?

The problem is that the retailer is then expected to store a product that they can't sell yet. A problem that can be avoided if the supplier simply co-ordinates their deliveries so that the product gets to the store when it is supposed to.

Having a set release date is fine. Expecting retailers to make up for the deficiencies in your supply chain is not.

 ironicsilence wrote:
this policy has been in place for a while now

No, no it hasn't. This policy just took effect, and has not been in place for the last decade, at least.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For all of you saying "But movies...video games..." etc

Realize that those industries actually give retailers information on the products coming out. They can take pre-orders of the products from customers. They can advertsie the products ahead of time. They can plan release parties, and schedule events around the product releases to enhance sales.


We can't do any of those fething things. GW hasn't even sent me product info on the Chaos release yet, and won't talk about it. All my info came from the White Dwarf.

I'd kill for the support that video, movie and other successful entertainment industries give to their retailers.

 Conrad Turner wrote:
No, from GW's (limited) point of view, it does make sense.

If Johnny public can go to his FLGS on a Friday and pick up his shinies then, what reason does he have to go into his nearest GW store and get them on the Saturday?

However, if, like me, the FLGS sells at prices lower than the GW store, Johnny will just wait until Saturday and still get them in his FLGS.

Despite GW thinking this is a smart move, it's still not doing them any favours!

This assumes there *is* a GW store nearby. In the US, there's only a couple metro areas and a scattering of random backwoods stores on the east coast that have GW stores. In most of the US, it's several hundred miles to the nearest *actual* GW store. Hell, where I live, in a metro area with more than 3 million people, there only 4 or 5 FLG's that even have GW stuff, only 2 that people ever really play at, and no GW store without driving 200 miles north.

 swordwind99 wrote:

Dont forget GW hates indies and if they could they would drop them like a bad smell,the fact they havent managed to force more of them out of selling GW stock for a discount still amazes me.

No they don't.
They actively seek out more trade accounts/indoes to sell their product through. They want other people to sell their stuff.
Check the list of indies selling GW stuff in the latest WD and compare that to 6 months ago. You'll see that they're expanding their trade accounts. Hardly the actions of a company that hates indies...

"Street Dates" for products is hardly a new concept, nor are penalties for breaking them. I just wish GW's street date wasn't a weekend, because anyone ordering these things and not going into a store then has to wait even longer for them to show up.

This is also part of the "plan" to drive in-store traffic, as opposed to online sales.

Lorizael wrote:Check the list of indies selling GW stuff in the latest WD and compare that to 6 months ago. You'll see that they're expanding their trade accounts.

Six months ago White Dwarf was only listing the new retailers. This is the first time in a while they've listed all of the existing retailers in White Dwarf.

 Lorizael wrote:

 swordwind99 wrote:

Dont forget GW hates indies and if they could they would drop them like a bad smell,the fact they havent managed to force more of them out of selling GW stock for a discount still amazes me.

No they don't.
They actively seek out more trade accounts/indoes to sell their product through. They want other people to sell their stuff.
Check the list of indies selling GW stuff in the latest WD and compare that to 6 months ago. You'll see that they're expanding their trade accounts. Hardly the actions of a company that hates indies...

You beat me to it, sensible post. Corporations love cashflow, this would also go some way to levelling the playing field for games stores (some has to get the first delivery after all).

How will GW detect non compliance; other game store will probably do this for them.

I wonder how many people complaining about this like being Jonny-big-banana who get their stuff first from their "connections". It is Serioz bidnezz after all.

As with most GW related news I'll think I'll be filing this one under storm in a tea cup.

 Vaktathi wrote:
This assumes there *is* a GW store nearby. In the US, there's only a couple metro areas and a scattering of random backwoods stores on the east coast that have GW stores. In most of the US, it's several hundred miles to the nearest *actual* GW store. Hell, where I live, in a metro area with more than 3 million people, there only 4 or 5 FLG's that even have GW stuff, only 2 that people ever really play at, and no GW store without driving 200 miles north.

Not entirely. It is still just a question of scale. My home is in Warminster, my nearest GW store to that is Bath (about 18 miles) My nearest GW stocking FLGS is in Westbury (about 5 miles) and they sell cheaper. OK, they might not have all the range, but they have most of the new stuff. And that is why I was saying that the move was still not doing GW any favours. So what if I have to wait another day or so to get GW models from my FLGS, I'll wait, save on petrol, and get them cheaper!

 scipio.au wrote:
Videogames also have street dates. It's funny watching (via the internet) as one retailer or another breaks the date for a game, then they all go for it once word gets out. Funny how EA, Activision, Ubisoft, despite being much larger than GW can't push their retailers around. Unlike GW, which relies on their retailers predominantly being small niche hobby stores which they can bully. Also why GW got laughed out of Wal-Mart during negotiations to stock their product years ago...

Woah, a little more on this Wal-Mart thing?

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

 Lordhat wrote:

skarsol wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Because nothing scores you sales like refusing to sell something to the guy standing in front of you with cash in hand, and telling him to come back tomorrow.

Dont advertise that you have product that isn't for sale yet and you wont have that problem.

Regular customers know EXACTLY when their FLGS gets it's shipment, no advertising required.

Just because customers know when a delivery arrives doesn't mean they have a right to the stock straight away, whether they've got cash in hand or not. Would you rather wait a few days or find out your FLGS has eventually closed because they've lost 6 months of sales through impatience?

The point of not selling something before 12.01 is stupid though, a lot of GW stuff is announced on Saturday's, which are typical gaming stores busiest days, so GW really expect staff to go ahead and re-arrange displays for new stock? pfft


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 swordwind99 wrote:

Dont forget GW hates indies and if they could they would drop them like a bad smell,the fact they havent managed to force more of them out of selling GW stock for a discount still amazes me.

What?? That's absolute rubbish, I work in a place that sells GW stuff. I got on rather well with the sales rep and as long as you meet certain standards set by GW then you'll the equivalent of a power seller. So if you came into the store and said, "I want a £5.50 pack of space marines" ordinarily you'd have to wait until the store generated a £100 order, but with this 'power seller' status you can order it right away, the store doesn't pay for shipping fees and the customer gets their item within a few days, rather than weeks.

The stores also have access to the Direct Only sales, that were only available through the GW website or on those instore order points.

So to say they hates indies is the possible the stupidest thing I've heard.ever. GW make money regardless of whatever the indie sells them for, Dark Vengeance costs £31 in trade value, they don't care if you sell it for £32 because they've got the £31 they set as a price. It's the indies who'll be affected because of a slightly reduced margin, unless they sell loads of stock and it'll be worth it.

 Ghaz wrote:
Six months ago White Dwarf was only listing the new retailers. This is the first time in a while they've listed all of the existing retailers in White Dwarf.

Not true for germany, where all German GW stores and retailers were listed.
Current White Dwarf goes further and lists every GW store and GW retailer of the whole world, with address and telephone, taking 11 pages for that, which may be a regular feature!

In the UK they have been doing that since at least the Necrons came out, which means it is rather expensive for what used to be a hobby magazine but is now a getting to be a GW catalogue with a battle report or other feature thrown in.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
Six months ago White Dwarf was only listing the new retailers. This is the first time in a while they've listed all of the existing retailers in White Dwarf.

Not true for germany, where all German GW stores and retailers were listed.
Current White Dwarf goes further and lists every GW store and GW retailer of the whole world, with address and telephone, taking 11 pages for that, which may be a regular feature!

Yep, until the current issue there was only a single page of retailers in the US White Dwar for quite some time. Half the page was all of the GW stores and the other half was just the new independent retailers. Of course there's a few more independent retailers in the US than there is in Germany I believe

 NAVARRO wrote:
So what are we talking about here? 24/ 48 hours before official release dates?

Independent retailers can sell the stuff as soon as the stock comes in. I bought Dark Vengeance 2 days before it supposedly went on sale. I just happened to be in the store when the UPS truck came in.

 mikhaila wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:
this policy has been in place for a while now

No, no it hasn't. This policy just took effect, and has not been in place for the last decade, at least.

my local gaming store has been getting these type of notices for the last 3 years, maybe they are just special

 Ghaz wrote:

Lorizael wrote:Check the list of indies selling GW stuff in the latest WD and compare that to 6 months ago. You'll see that they're expanding their trade accounts.

Six months ago White Dwarf was only listing the new retailers. This is the first time in a while they've listed all of the existing retailers in White Dwarf.

UK White Dwarf has always listed all independant stockists.

The OZ one always used to as a well. Around when I stopped buying White Dwarf, it had shrunk to a depressingly small list compared to what it used to be.

I wonder when they are going to sanction Apple. I got my WD through the App Store/Newstand at 10:25PM on Friday...

It says they can't sell the merchandise until the said date. This probably doesn't prevent store owners from displaying the merchandise or putting it on "layaway" with the condition that it cannot leave the store (and thus complete the transaction) until the stated time and date. I know this prevents people from getting models and books early, but it also makes them not have to wait around for that specific minute and then rush for the goods. Only problem is I doubt GW would like this at all; especially when LGSs start having massive back orders of models that they shouldn't be selling yet.

I'll ask a different question to those that think this is a load of rubbish/stupid/idiotic or whatever load of bilge your throwing out today.

What makes you so special that you deserve to get new stuff before everyone else?

Sure it would be nice if GW gave indy's a little more frigging notice, but lets face it...GW has enough trouble trusting staffers not to leak stuff so obviously they can't trust indies if every letter they send em winds up on the internet. Pretty sure GW instituted these draconian leak prevention measures to prevent new line cinema from pulling the LOTR license and crushing GW like a bug, after all, GW WAS the source of the early peak at the ringwraiths before the LOTR movies came out, if smog gets leaked the same way you can bet GW will have to pay some hefty damn penalties to New Line Cinema in response.

Street dates are there for reasons that have been well explained by Lorizael already. GW's only other alternative besides trusting stockists to respect it is to simply ensure they don't get their shipments until day of or after and no one wants to see that.

Orktavius wrote:
I'll ask a different question to those that think this is a load of rubbish/stupid/idiotic or whatever load of bilge your throwing out today.

What makes you so special that you deserve to get new stuff before everyone else?

Sure it would be nice if GW gave indy's a little more frigging notice, but lets face it...GW has enough trouble trusting staffers not to leak stuff so obviously they can't trust indies if every letter they send em winds up on the internet. Pretty sure GW instituted these draconian leak prevention measures to prevent new line cinema from pulling the LOTR license and crushing GW like a bug, after all, GW WAS the source of the early peak at the ringwraiths before the LOTR movies came out, if smog gets leaked the same way you can bet GW will have to pay some hefty damn penalties to New Line Cinema in response.

Street dates are there for reasons that have been well explained by Lorizael already. GW's only other alternative besides trusting stockists to respect it is to simply ensure they don't get their shipments until day of or after and no one wants to see that.

Thats the thing, though.

No one here is saying that they are special. The past actions from GW were that they sent out a little note on what was coming out to the stores, then had to go about getting it to said store. WE as in general public, buying some miniatures got our info from coming from the White Dwarf, got a sneak peak of a few units, and the direction in advance, before even having to go the route of trying to get it out. Rumors and backdoor talk comes with a product like miniatures.

What GW is trying to do is stifle all conversation on thier upcoming, and future releases. It isn't about what WE want. it is just a conglomerate company trying to dictate by the boot to smaller distribution points in between gamers and the company.

Since they want to "adapt" a policy of ... "WE will tell you what you need to know", then you can not only expect MORE people trying to leak it, but it might as well be a given that it should be expected...

As to thier issues from , "New Line"... thats not even part of this conversation. GW decided that they NOW, after no matter how long, that they want to "Enforce" a sales date.

We are talking miniatures. period. Wharhammer 40,000, WFB, Specialist stuff, etc. GW's on thier own when it comes to the movie products, they knew that going in, and they can suck that egg if and when it comes again.( If they didn't learn thier lession with the ringwraths, then thats entirly on them.) They have enough experience running off with the C and D machine to even ride that train.


From my point of view, and a long time buyer-

Its being one sided in a two sided conversation, if you want to get down to it.

You can't just arbitrarily tell someone, hey, we are sending you a shipment, but you have to sit on it for a month/ week/ year/ or however long, before WE tell you to sell it. That is dictating how someone else runs thier shop. Might go well for thier stores, but we are talking Brick and Morter stores that are quite literally fighting for sales. They are fighting for sales from GW's own stores, competing stores, the internet, and pretty much being told to suck it, based on an arbitrary date.

I see you taking an adversarial stance on the question, and thats exactly the same question, but from a different angle that a guy who is fighting to make bank on this stuff and sell it to "Little Timmy" is asking.

"What makes this product so special that I have to wait two more weeks and ask someone I don't even know, who is trying to dictate how I make bank how I do business... When they never did this to me before?"

And this is why easter eggs are in the stores just after Christmas, and christmas stock in September.

It used to be that Christmas stock was not put on shelves before 4th December, but stores had to order that stock in November.

Wholesalers wanted more notice as to what retailers wanted, and so asked them to order earlier. Retailers didn't want to have stock hanging around, and didn't want to order something in October, have to pay for it in november, and not get it delivered until December, so had it delivered earlier and put it on the shelves as soon as it came in.

These days, of course, with JIT deliveries it should be possible for companies like GW to deliver on day of release. However, retailers are going to complain about that. Why should they either be forced to close stores so they can ensure product is not walking whilst they are checking and displaying new deliveries, or take the risk of excess "Shrinkage", or stay working late the night before and get the delivery in, checked, and displayed after hours on the night before release.

Either way, this could end up costing smaller independants, who them will be forced to re-evaluate if it makes economic sense for them to deal with GW. This would then mean we all could have to rely more on on-line retail or longer drives to get GW models.

I personally don't think that either is a particularly good outcome for GW.

(And I speak from experience, my parents were self-employed newsagents for 18 years, I saw these things happening)

Orktavius wrote:
What makes you so special that you deserve to get new stuff before everyone else?

I think you may have misunderstood how retail works.

Nobody is thinking they are special. There's a very simple principle at work: I want something. Store has something. If store will sell it to me, then I will buy it.

Street dates serve no useful purpose beyond (if your product is in high enough demand) forcing a few more people into your store on a given day. Which will still happen if you decide to sell some of your stock to customers who happen to be in the store the day before.

 insaniak wrote:

Orktavius wrote:
What makes you so special that you deserve to get new stuff before everyone else?

I think you may have misunderstood how retail works.

Nobody is thinking they are special. There's a very simple principle at work: I want something. Store has something. If store will sell it to me, then I will buy it.

Street dates serve no useful purpose beyond (if your product is in high enough demand) forcing a few more people into your store on a given day. Which will still happen if you decide to sell some of your stock to customers who happen to be in the store the day before.

I don't know, Insaniak.

A release date known in advance should help generate hype, allow a retailer to plan special opening hours and promotions/activities. It can help increase revenue by having specific order incentives and cross promotions and help boost sales for those stores willing to put a bit of thought and graft into it. (that's how I would do it anyway).

If a plan is in place for a release on x day, why should it be okay for retailers to jump the gun, obvioulsy the store is looking to maximise their own profit potential but on a straight sale basis stores will ultimately loose out.

For those with stores, or in retail, perhaps you can answer this.

Is there anything stopping savvy store owners from informing the keen eyed purchaser that in order for him to make the sale he will need to issue a written receipt post dated for the release day? Then do all the electronic bookkeeping on that day later?

I.e. Release is on X date, Average Johnny Consumer comes in and Smart Store Owner Bob says "Now Johnny, here is a receipt dated X despite it actually being Y, just so I can sell this to you now. If you don't accept this then I can't sell it to you until X.". Johnny agrees to keep mum about it, pays (in cash maybe unless Bob can delay EFTPOS or Credit transactions somehow), and Bob does the bookkeeping on X date as if he made the sale then.

Could they do that?

Not unreasonable that they control the sale date on new product. Hardly the only industry where that happens. However, that this somehow encourages more footfall for the independent LGS is nuts. Just say "we're protecting our IP and if you don't like it dont sell it" rather than spuriously making out it's helping the retailers ...

 Atma01 wrote:
For those with stores, or in retail, perhaps you can answer this.

Is there anything stopping savvy store owners from informing the keen eyed purchaser that in order for him to make the sale he will need to issue a written receipt post dated for the release day? Then do all the electronic bookkeeping on that day later?

I.e. Release is on X date, Average Johnny Consumer comes in and Smart Store Owner Bob says "Now Johnny, here is a receipt dated X despite it actually being Y, just so I can sell this to you now. If you don't accept this then I can't sell it to you until X.". Johnny agrees to keep mum about it, pays (in cash maybe unless Bob can delay EFTPOS or Credit transactions somehow), and Bob does the bookkeeping on X date as if he made the sale then.

Could they do that?

Nothing at all. My own local GW did this with certain things, esp. the old army boxes. You'd pay in cash and they'd cut the barcode off the box and stick them both in the store's safe. When Saturday rolled around they simply scanned the barcode at opening time as if the sale was made then and no-one was any the wiser.

Might not work in today's GW environment, but I know this was in practice as little as 6-7 years ago.


I've said it before, but this just smacks of GW trying to be like Apple again. GW are not Apple, they never will be. It always seems to me like GW views Apple as being the cool kid on the block and trying to emulate them in every way, even though their businesses, whilst similar niche markets and simply too different to operate in the same way.

 mikhaila wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:
this policy has been in place for a while now

No, no it hasn't. This policy just took effect, and has not been in place for the last decade, at least.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For all of you saying "But movies...video games..." etc

Realize that those industries actually give retailers information on the products coming out. They can take pre-orders of the products from customers. They can advertsie the products ahead of time. They can plan release parties, and schedule events around the product releases to enhance sales.


We can't do any of those fething things. GW hasn't even sent me product info on the Chaos release yet, and won't talk about it. All my info came from the White Dwarf.

I'd kill for the support that video, movie and other successful entertainment industries give to their retailers.

Guess it escapes many of you that movies, books, etc are intellectual property, too? Anyone remember the Harry Potter early release debacle?

Just stop whining about the lack of pre-release info. There are probably just as many reasons why it doesn't come out as there are the reasons leaks get out i the first place. Once this stuff comes out, the wailing will cease, until the next release andnit will start anew...

 vitki wrote:
I wonder when they are going to sanction Apple. I got my WD through the App Store/Newstand at 10:25PM on Friday...

You're in the US? Not that big a deal. It was Saturday in the UK already most like.

Either way, I don't think they need to sanction Apple. Apple will understand and seek to implement any privacy requests GW may or may not have.

How long do you think your store would be an "official Apple retailer" after you dare spoil stuff for the next iPhone, iPad or whatever Apple is putting out before ol' Cook had one of his "just-like-Steve-did-it"-presentation shows?

I think GW need Apple far more than Apple need GW - even if they did release it early, there isn't really much GW can threaten Apple with.

I can completely understand why GW are doing this - they want all the attention, and they want to stop the massive leaks WEEKS in advance of every significant release they've had all this year.

But the thing is, they'll send you the stock, they'll tell you to hold onto it for a day, two days, three or four days BUT they still want paying 30 days after you get the stock in, by the time it's gone on sale you'll only have 25 days, or 21 days to pay it all off.

So there's more pressure for an indie to choose the 'popular' stuff, or maybe even none at all and wait a bit to see what sells well, in case it all fails miserably and is left to collect dust on a shelf, leaving them out of pocket


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 filbert wrote:
I think GW need Apple far more than Apple need GW - even if they did release it early, there isn't really much GW can threaten Apple with.

Another dude made the point on here that by the time that bloke got his copy of WD on the app store, it was probably already Saturday in the UK anyway - which is release date. Plus GW control all their content, if it's on the App Store it's because they put it there, not because Apple released it early.

The whole apple thing is nothing at all to do with the letters indie stores are getting

 stubacca wrote:

But the thing is, they'll send you the stock, they'll tell you to hold onto it for a day, two days, three or four days BUT they still want paying 30 days after you get the stock in, by the time it's gone on sale you'll only have 25 days, or 21 days to pay it all off.

It'd be great of all industries worked that way. Back when I ran an Anime/Nerd shop Navarre, AAAnime, RoBBY, and Hobby Link Japan wouldn't ship without payment upfront.

All of which had specified release dates for products.... and all of which gave at least 90 days notice of when something would be coming out.

 Cyporiean wrote:

 stubacca wrote:

But the thing is, they'll send you the stock, they'll tell you to hold onto it for a day, two days, three or four days BUT they still want paying 30 days after you get the stock in, by the time it's gone on sale you'll only have 25 days, or 21 days to pay it all off.

It'd be great of all industries worked that way. Back when I ran an Anime/Nerd shop Navarre, AAAnime, RoBBY, and Hobby Link Japan wouldn't ship without payment upfront.

All of which had specified release dates for products.... and all of which gave at least 90 days notice of when something would be coming out.

That's what annoyed me about GW with the new paint range earlier this year, absolutely no notice at all, and then BOOM! "you need 145 paints at £7.44 for a pack of six, oh, and a stand" I think it worked out to nearly £2000, god knows what that cost was the the US/Australia 0_o

 Mr. Burning wrote:
A release date known in advance should help generate hype, allow a retailer to plan special opening hours and promotions/activities. It can help increase revenue by having specific order incentives and cross promotions and help boost sales for those stores willing to put a bit of thought and graft into it. (that's how I would do it anyway).

Yes indeed, you can do all of that with a known release date. Whether or not there is an embargo on selling the product if it happens to arrive a day early makes little difference to that.

If a plan is in place for a release on x day, why should it be okay for retailers to jump the gun, obvioulsy the store is looking to maximise their own profit potential but on a straight sale basis stores will ultimately loose out.

If the stock is sent to the store, why is it ok for the supplier to expect the retailer to provide free warehousing until such time as the supplier deems it acceptable for them to start selling their product?

Again, if you want your product to be sold from a specific date, then just send it to the store for delivery on that date, or late the day before. All of the cloak and dagger, 'we'll cut you off if you sell stuff early, it's for your own good! The whole hobby will crash and burn if someone, somewhere, has a Chaos codex a day early!' nonsense is completely unprofessional, and just as completely unecessary.

 insaniak wrote:

If the stock is sent to the store, why is it ok for the supplier to expect the retailer to provide free warehousing until such time as the supplier deems it acceptable for them to start selling their product?

Again, if you want your product to be sold from a specific date, then just send it to the store for delivery on that date, or late the day before. All of the cloak and dagger, 'we'll cut you off if you sell stuff early, it's for your own good! The whole hobby will crash and burn if someone, somewhere, has a Chaos codex a day early!' nonsense is completely unprofessional, and just as completely unecessary.

Have you never bought a video game? This kinda stuff is as common as it gets. Midnight releases for big games become more like parties and most retailers still hold to the 12:01AM release time. Yes, people complain, but it sounds more like that kid in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory: "I want it now!"

I do however have problems with having no official word on any new releases until they're pretty much on the shelves. GW could be spending a lot more time ramping up the hype machine and telling me how awesome their shiny new pieces of plastic/resin are before they're released.

While a bit of pre-release publicity would be nice video game levels would be rubbish

That would let GW put up inflated stats and rules (the how great our new game will be hype) that are dramatically downgraded for the actual release but they don't have to publicise that)

It's why i've pretty much given up buying games until 3-4 months after they come out (well that and the game breaking bugs)

 JustPlainJim wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

If the stock is sent to the store, why is it ok for the supplier to expect the retailer to provide free warehousing until such time as the supplier deems it acceptable for them to start selling their product?

Again, if you want your product to be sold from a specific date, then just send it to the store for delivery on that date, or late the day before. All of the cloak and dagger, 'we'll cut you off if you sell stuff early, it's for your own good! The whole hobby will crash and burn if someone, somewhere, has a Chaos codex a day early!' nonsense is completely unprofessional, and just as completely unecessary.

Have you never bought a video game? This kinda stuff is as common as it gets. Midnight releases for big games become more like parties and most retailers still hold to the 12:01AM release time. Yes, people complain, but it sounds more like that kid in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory: "I want it now!"

I do however have problems with having no official word on any new releases until they're pretty much on the shelves. GW could be spending a lot more time ramping up the hype machine and telling me how awesome their shiny new pieces of plastic/resin are before they're released.

The problem I see with the current hype GW is building concerning its release schedule is this: They will invite you for a release party at the store, they even keep some stores open until midnight... for a pre-order. Just so you could stare at the GW website from the store and go "oooooh, shinies o' next week!" Waiting in line for a Harry Potter novel with hundreds of people, for video games with thousands of people and getting your stuff in exchange for money, that's fun and exciting. Getting an invoice and a piece of stale cake... not so much.

I would stay in the store all night with access to a bitz box to build and convert my newest kit, if I could plan my conversion ahead and they did the big midnight release thing, I really would. But right now there is zero advantage to reserving a copy of a 90$ heldrake that is not limited in any way shape or form. Even the limited editions could have been sent to stores only for release on the day and they would have sold just as well.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:


Just stop whining about the lack of pre-release info. There are probably just as many reasons why it doesn't come out as there are the reasons leaks get out i the first place. Once this stuff comes out, the wailing will cease, until the next release andnit will start anew...

SoloFalcon, you realise the guy is trying to run a store right?

I can completely sympathise with someone who has a shop to run, who probably has GW products down as one of his big money makers, and that company is doing absolutely nothing to help him make efforts to try and maximise that revenue.

The build up to the 6th edition box set was an absolute joke. There are still copies of the limited edition sat on the shelf at my local FLGS, and you have to reckon that if any attempt at marketing at all had happened then that would not be the case.

 Pacific wrote:

I can completely sympathise with someone who has a shop to run, who probably has GW products down as one of his big money makers, and that company is doing absolutely nothing to help him make efforts to try and maximise that revenue.

The build up to the 6th edition box set was an absolute joke. There are still copies of the limited edition sat on the shelf at my local FLGS, and you have to reckon that if any attempt at marketing at all had happened then that would not be the case.

QFT !! My FLGS still had Limited Edition Sets when I was there last, as well. From my microcosmic store community perspective, interest in GW has dropped precipitously in the last 12 - 18 months. Failcast was the start of it, all their subsequent paranoid and greedy policies have added to it, and the recent surprise releases of rediculously bad models seems to have solidified it.

"The King is dead. Long live the King(s) !! ". OK, overly dramatic but there are SO MANY new game systems that are producing amazing and different models to attract our interest and gaming dollar. GW has lost its edge and, rather than put resources into advertising and building up their product, they chose to flog the independant retailers and the fans of their product. Sorry, even the most loyal dog can only be kicked so long before biting and running away ....

The only gaming store I go to also has 4 limited edition copies of 6th on its shelf. Or it did a week ago, anyway. That store is also an hour and a half from me, and I would make my purchases on the days I was already up there, not making a special trip for release day. The day I was usually up there was Thursday-one day prior to when releases were usually put up before this new ruling. Sometimes I was able to get GW product on Thursday if it was in, sometimes not. But I wouldn't make a special trip two days later to get something that was in store Thursday that a company said I couldn't have. It's not just the cost of the box set for somebody like me-it's the cost of the box, plus the cost in gas (which costs a couple bucks for a 75 mile trip...). That's wasting money. Even if I'm lucky enough to have a 25% off coupon from the store, gas is a killer, plus additional wear and tear on my vehicle. GW (or any gaming company for that matter) tells me that their product is in, but I can't have it for 2 more days? Well, if I still want it, I'll buy it next time I'm in. But there is no guarantee.

On the plus side, my favorite store has a bunch of Mantic stuff on the shelf, so next time my 25% off coupon comes in...

 Myrthe wrote:


"The King is dead. Long live the King(s) !! ". OK, overly dramatic but there are SO MANY new game systems that are producing amazing and different models to attract our interest and gaming dollar. GW has lost its edge and, rather than put resources into advertising and building up their product, they chose to flog the independant retailers and the fans of their product. Sorry, even the most loyal dog can only be kicked so long before biting and running away ....

Having just come from GD UK, I have to disagree. The amount of people there, queuing for quite literally hours to throw ridiculous amounts of money at GW was just beyond belief.

The biggest seller was admittedly FW. They didnt do much advertising either and their GBP 50 Angron sold out in under 2 hours. That is over US$ 100.000,- on just one of the miniatures for sale before most people had even arrived. Crowds of people with 6, 7 or 8 bags stuffed full of GW boxes. Not even the new stuff. There was a bunch of guys dressed up as cosplay IG-Guardsman just packing at least a 100 or so boxes of IG tank-kits into a handcart to even be able to get it to their car. And they paid full retail price at the GW event for stuff that is so easy to have of a discounter or even eBay. Whole gaming/fan clubs with custom-made club-T-shirts, often 20 or 30 guys, who had come together, etc.., etc.. .

The vast majority of GW customers still simply dont quite live in the world of Kickstarters, Discounters and frugal online-bitz trading.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 Myrthe wrote:


"The King is dead. Long live the King(s) !! ". OK, overly dramatic but there are SO MANY new game systems that are producing amazing and different models to attract our interest and gaming dollar. GW has lost its edge and, rather than put resources into advertising and building up their product, they chose to flog the independant retailers and the fans of their product. Sorry, even the most loyal dog can only be kicked so long before biting and running away ....

Having just come from GD UK, I have to disagree. The amount of people there, queuing for quite literally hours to throw ridiculous amounts of money at GW was just beyond belief.

The biggest seller was admittedly FW. They didnt do much advertising either and their GBP 50 Angron sold out in under 2 hours. That is over US$ 100.000,- on just one of the miniatures for sale before most people had even arrived. Crowds of people with 6, 7 or 8 bags stuffed full of GW boxes. Not even the new stuff. There was a bunch of guys dressed up as cosplay IG-Guardsman just packing at least a 100 or so boxes of IG tank-kits into a handcart to even be able to get it to their car. And they paid full retail price at the GW event for stuff that is so easy to have of a discounter or even eBay. Whole gaming/fan clubs with custom-made club-T-shirts, often 20 or 30 guys, who had come together, etc.., etc.. .

The vast majority of GW customers still simply dont quite live in the world of Kickstarters, Discounters and frugal online-bitz trading.

Because they haven't woken up yet. I know, I was one of them until recently. They'll all feel MUCH better when they learn...

 Pacific wrote:


The build up to the 6th edition box set was an absolute joke. There are still copies of the limited edition sat on the shelf at my local FLGS, and you have to reckon that if any attempt at marketing at all had happened then that would not be the case.

No kidding. One of the stores here has at least 10 of the LE sets still available. And this is after they opened 6-7 of them to sell the components separately.

 timetowaste85 wrote:


Because they haven't woken up yet. I know, I was one of them until recently. They'll all feel MUCH better when they learn...

Or you could respect people for having their own opinions.

 Pacific wrote:

The build up to the 6th edition box set was an absolute joke. There are still copies of the limited edition sat on the shelf at my local FLGS, and you have to reckon that if any attempt at marketing at all had happened then that would not be the case.

Not to disagree, but even when GW had a relatively open information policy--this was the case.

I know for a fact that the old FLGS I frequented from 1997 to 2005, without fail, would end up with limited editions(most notably the old Army Boxes) sitting on the shelves.
Almost always it related to people expressing interest, the store owner acting on that interest after repeated confirmations from the customer and then the customer backing out for any number of reasons and the store having it sit on the shelves.

UltraPrime wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:


Because they haven't woken up yet. I know, I was one of them until recently. They'll all feel MUCH better when they learn...

Or you could respect people for having their own opinions.

I fail to see how that could be relevant.
Kidding. If you love the GW universe, and it's truly you that loves it...cool. If its GW brainwashing you that there is no other option and they keep telling you to continue loving them through all their crap, it's time to wake up.

 Zweischneid wrote:
Having just come from GD UK, I have to disagree. The amount of people there, queuing for quite literally hours to throw ridiculous amounts of money at GW was just beyond belief.

The biggest seller was admittedly FW. They didnt do much advertising either and their GBP 50 Angron sold out in under 2 hours. That is over US$ 100.000,- on just one of the miniatures for sale before most people had even arrived. Crowds of people with 6, 7 or 8 bags stuffed full of GW boxes. Not even the new stuff. There was a bunch of guys dressed up as cosplay IG-Guardsman just packing at least a 100 or so boxes of IG tank-kits into a handcart to even be able to get it to their car. And they paid full retail price at the GW event for stuff that is so easy to have of a discounter or even eBay. Whole gaming/fan clubs with custom-made club-T-shirts, often 20 or 30 guys, who had come together, etc.., etc.. .

The vast majority of GW customers still simply dont quite live in the world of Kickstarters, Discounters and frugal online-bitz trading.

Actually £50 is about US$81 ($1.62 to the £ at the moment), but even so I generally get your point. However, you do not make any allowance for people saving up and having a good time out. I used to go to just the one model show a year as it was the only one a friend of mine and I could both get to. Therefore we both saved up and spent a large chunk of our modelling budget at that one show where we could go a little crazy.

Since then I do not spend anywhere as much at any show, and I go to more than the one a year. I am finding it more difficult to spend money with GW, I have found other companies that I like the look of the models more, and give better value. Will I find the rules to be better, I don't currently know, but I am finding myself drifting away from the 'gaming' side of the hobby and more towards the painting awesome models side. And although GW has yet to stop producing models that spark something in my imagination, they are certainly doing so less often than they used to. Iron Core has spoken to me in a way WH40K hasn't for ..... well, probably since about the time the Tau came out originally. Mauser Earth have some cracking models, no game system I am aware of, just models begging to be built and detailed to amazing standards. I would have loved to get my hands on a "Knight Models" "Boba Fett" bust, but the line has been discontinued.

Maybe I can be tempted back, but that is going to take more effort than GW seem capable of making at the moment.

 Conrad Turner wrote:


Actually £50 is about US$81 ($1.62 to the £ at the moment), but even so I generally get your point. However, you do not make any allowance for people saving up and having a good time out. I used to go to just the one model show a year as it was the only one a friend of mine and I could both get to. Therefore we both saved up and spent a large chunk of our modelling budget at that one show where we could go a little crazy.

A) I read somewhere (Dakka) that they had 1500 Angrons. So by US$81,- it would be over US$ 120.000,- in under 2 hours. Not too shabby for a single 30mm mini in a fancy box.

B) If some people save up for a whole year to go on a splurge on Games Day.. perhaps. But that in itself tells you something about GW customers. These would be guys (and girls) who are not tempted by other temptations from cheaper and/or alternative games for a flull year, nor daunted by GW prices to head over to an online discounter. These people would be loyal fans steadfastly saving month after month to pay GW at premium prices just for the sake of "buying at the event" when they could simply whip out their mobile and get 20% right there. Not to mention not having to carry all the boxes back home yourself. The prospect of GW having thousands of customers like this is even more frightening than people just straining their credit card on the impulse of the moment.

 Zweischneid wrote:

B) If some people save up for a whole year to go on a splurge on Games Day.. perhaps. But that in itself tells you something about GW customers. These would be guys (and girls) who are not tempted by other temptations from cheaper and/or alternative games for a flull year, nor daunted by GW prices to head over to an online discounter. These people would be loyal fans steadfastly saving month after month to pay GW at premium prices just for the sake of "buying at the event" when they could simply whip out their mobile and get 20% right there. Not to mention not having to carry all the boxes back home yourself. The prospect of GW having thousands of customers like this is even more frightening than people just straining their credit card on the impulse of the moment.

Here's where you have the issue at taking this into account.

Angron? He's not going to be available at a 20% off retailer. In fact, he and the other Horus Heresy stuff was only available at the event.

FW is basically GW's "insert cash here" vending machine, because there is not really any independents/discounters out there willing to stock the stuff. The only competition they have are recasters--and the only people who buy from recasters knowingly are people who would not have been buying from FW anyways.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:

B) If some people save up for a whole year to go on a splurge on Games Day.. perhaps. But that in itself tells you something about GW customers. These would be guys (and girls) who are not tempted by other temptations from cheaper and/or alternative games for a flull year, nor daunted by GW prices to head over to an online discounter. These people would be loyal fans steadfastly saving month after month to pay GW at premium prices just for the sake of "buying at the event" when they could simply whip out their mobile and get 20% right there. Not to mention not having to carry all the boxes back home yourself. The prospect of GW having thousands of customers like this is even more frightening than people just straining their credit card on the impulse of the moment.

Here's where you have the issue at taking this into account.

Angron? He's not going to be available at a 20% off retailer. In fact, he and the other Horus Heresy stuff was only available at the event.

FW is basically GW's "insert cash here" vending machine, because there is not really any independents/discounters out there willing to stock the stuff. The only competition they have are recasters--and the only people who buy from recasters knowingly are people who would not have been buying from FW anyways.

Yes. But Angron is only the example I can try to get a measure of the price. But there were thousands of people just carrying boxes of Tau Battleforces or Fortress of Redemptions or - as described above - the 5 guys in full IG-cosplay who literally brought a handcart to drag away more Leman Russ and Chimera-kits than even 5 IG-Apoc armies could possibly ever use. No discount there. Not 1%. No "Buy 20 get 1 free". They still bought 20 of each of every Tank variation GW ever put out for IG it seems.

And yes, for FW, Angron sold out quickly. But Phantom Titans and Thunderhawks were also crossing the counter quite frequently.

And I do not really subscribe to the "saving-up-for-a-year"-theory. People buy a lot on impulse. If people would shop rationally, the entire marketing industry would be dead in the water (as would, on a smaller scale, the current Kickstarter phenomenon).

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:

The problem I see with the current hype GW is building concerning its release schedule is this: They will invite you for a release party at the store, they even keep some stores open until midnight... for a pre-order. Just so you could stare at the GW website from the store and go "oooooh, shinies o' next week!" Waiting in line for a Harry Potter novel with hundreds of people, for video games with thousands of people and getting your stuff in exchange for money, that's fun and exciting. Getting an invoice and a piece of stale cake... not so much.

I would stay in the store all night with access to a bitz box to build and convert my newest kit, if I could plan my conversion ahead and they did the big midnight release thing, I really would. But right now there is zero advantage to reserving a copy of a 90$ heldrake that is not limited in any way shape or form. Even the limited editions could have been sent to stores only for release on the day and they would have sold just as well.

I'll agree with you on this one. A midnight party for the honor of pre-ordering is bull-honkey. But then, I can also pre-order my shiny game months before-hand (and thankfully cancel a preorder if I think the game's going to suck.

 JustPlainJim wrote:
Have you never bought a video game? This kinda stuff is as common as it gets. Midnight releases for big games become more like parties and most retailers still hold to the 12:01AM release time. Yes, people complain, but it sounds more like that kid in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory: "I want it now!"

You've misunderstood my point. I'm not complaining about stores not selling me stuff early. I'm saying that a policy whereby stores are not allowed to sell product that they have sitting in the store until an arbitrary date is stupid, and potentially costs them sales. If I'm in the store, and I ask if they have a particular item yet, and they say 'Yes, but I can't sell it to you until tomorrow' then I'm not going to complain... but I'm also not going to buy it, obviously, because they're not selling it to me. The store trades the certainty of the customer standing in front of them waving money in their face for the possibility that this customer might come back tomorrow. And anyone who has spent any time in retail knows that the most important customer a store ever has is the one standing in the store right now with money in their hand.

I'm aware that companies other than GW do this. That doesn't make it any less stupid, or GW's claim that it 'builds excitement and drives people into stores' any more true. The people who are interested in organised release events will still go to them if the item actually went on sale a little earlier, because they're there as much for the event as to purchase.

 insaniak wrote:
because they're there as much for the event as to purchase.

This is so true, it's painfully unfunny.

As an example, I used to work for Barnes and Noble during the Harry Potter/Twilight release years. The mad spectacle of the midnight parties is something that can't be properly be expressed in words, you really had to be there to know what it was like. We're talking news crews salivating at the chance to interview some random Joe who happened to be first in line levels of insanity. Half the people there were there just for the party and the theatrics surrounding it more than to actually buy the damn books.

However, to hold those parties, we had an entire side store room filled with useless stock under lock and key for 1-2 weeks. Stock we couldn't sell for fear not just of losing that publisher's product but getting our asses sued off by said publisher. Hell, you could be fired just for opening one of those boxes to look at the damned things.

This is why you see the same people at a magic release s you did the week before for prerelease events. The handouts are worse yet the same people go for the event more then the product.

 Zweischneid wrote:
A) I read somewhere (Dakka) that they had 1500 Angrons. So by US$81,- it would be over US$ 120.000,- in under 2 hours. Not too shabby for a single 30mm mini in a fancy box.

B) If some people save up for a whole year to go on a splurge on Games Day.. perhaps. But that in itself tells you something about GW customers. These would be guys (and girls) who are not tempted by other temptations from cheaper and/or alternative games for a flull year, nor daunted by GW prices to head over to an online discounter. These people would be loyal fans steadfastly saving month after month to pay GW at premium prices just for the sake of "buying at the event" when they could simply whip out their mobile and get 20% right there. Not to mention not having to carry all the boxes back home yourself. The prospect of GW having thousands of customers like this is even more frightening than people just straining their credit card on the impulse of the moment.

OK, yes. As you didn't put the number sold in your original post, I took the US$ to be 100, not 100,000. And I don't deny that GD relies heavily on impulse buying during GD, just that that is the only reason loads of stuff is sold. It can also be down to a form of 'one-up-manship' where you can let people know you have been able to afford more stuff than them - even to the extent of putting more than you can realistically afford on a credit card and taking the rest of the year to pay it off. I don't particularly understand it myself, especially with the prices of GW stuff these days (And I have to admit, it's been about 10 years since I went to a GD. I saved up to get FW stuff, they wouldn't sell me just the bits I wanted for a conversion, so I didn't spend as much as I had planned, and came home with money still in my pockets).

And personally, I have better things to spend £50 on than a single 30mm mini, no matter the manufacturer nor how fancy the box.

It is true that GW does not like having their own local store if they can use FLGS. They actually say as much in their business statement. They are for most a manufacturing company and any actually stores they run for the stuff they make is almost an after thought.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:

B) If some people save up for a whole year to go on a splurge on Games Day.. perhaps. But that in itself tells you something about GW customers. These would be guys (and girls) who are not tempted by other temptations from cheaper and/or alternative games for a flull year, nor daunted by GW prices to head over to an online discounter. These people would be loyal fans steadfastly saving month after month to pay GW at premium prices just for the sake of "buying at the event" when they could simply whip out their mobile and get 20% right there. Not to mention not having to carry all the boxes back home yourself. The prospect of GW having thousands of customers like this is even more frightening than people just straining their credit card on the impulse of the moment.

Here's where you have the issue at taking this into account.

Angron? He's not going to be available at a 20% off retailer. In fact, he and the other Horus Heresy stuff was only available at the event.

FW is basically GW's "insert cash here" vending machine, because there is not really any independents/discounters out there willing to stock the stuff. The only competition they have are recasters--and the only people who buy from recasters knowingly are people who would not have been buying from FW anyways.

That isnt true. Indies cannot stock Forgeworld. We would certainly stock most of the range given the chance.

 stubacca wrote:
I can completely understand why GW are doing this - they want all the attention, and they want to stop the massive leaks WEEKS in advance of every significant release they've had all this year.

But the thing is, they'll send you the stock, they'll tell you to hold onto it for a day, two days, three or four days BUT they still want paying 30 days after you get the stock in, by the time it's gone on sale you'll only have 25 days, or 21 days to pay it all off.

So there's more pressure for an indie to choose the 'popular' stuff, or maybe even none at all and wait a bit to see what sells well, in case it all fails miserably and is left to collect dust on a shelf, leaving them out of pocket

Dunno about overseas its 30 days after the end of the month in aus. So if you get invoiced for it on the 1st of june, your account is due on the 30th of july, effectively 2 months.

In the video game world it is easy to understand why they want a game to be released on a specific day. Many gamers do not hold on to games for a long time. If the game dribbled out of the supply chain, then the publishers could be hurt badly by used sales.

In other industries, release days are used as hype. The likely pay off news outlets to run 'stories' about the events. They also try to generate a mob experience which some people desire. (Things that other people like, are seen as desirable to people who cannot think for themselves.)

GW on the other hand does not use the media in this fashion. Players are less likely to buy a kit and then resell it a short while later, as it takes time to assemble, etc.

White Ninja wrote:
It is true that GW does not like having their own local store if they can use FLGS. They actually say as much in their business statement. They are for most a manufacturing company and any actually stores they run for the stuff they make is almost an after thought.

GW does not always practice what they preach. They frequently open stores in areas that have been 'scouted out' by FLGS, thus screwing over the FLGS.

 Zweischneid wrote:


A) I read somewhere (Dakka) that they had 1500 Angrons. So by US$81,- it would be over US$ 120.000,- in under 2 hours. Not too shabby for a single 30mm mini in a fancy box.

Funny. I heard they only had 200 to sell. If that is the case, then $16,200 for a couple of hours is nowhere as impressive.

Does anyone know how many they did take to GDUK?

 Conrad Turner wrote:
And this is why easter eggs are in the stores just after Christmas, and christmas stock in September.

It used to be that Christmas stock was not put on shelves before 4th December, but stores had to order that stock in November.

The main reason stock goes on the shelf so early for events like that is because by law you are required to have items on shelf at whatever price for a certain period of time (28 days IIRC) before you can promote it as being discounted.

I was told, from a source I consider unimpeachable that they brought 1500 Angron models, which sold out within 2 hours.

Also sold out of the 1000 copies of the HH book too, apparently.

People drop crazy money at these things. One person in the FW line I watched handed over £1300 cash for a veritable shopping list of products.

Guess I dropped about £150 on the day.

It's easily done... alas.

£50 for Angron? GW seemed to have done exactly what I hoped they wouldn't. Take an obviously popular figure like a Primarch and then make a small number and event exclusive and charge the earth, just so they can make it as hard as possible for people to buy.

GW really deserve all the third parties that are supplying the models they won't do properly.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
£50 for Angron? GW seemed to have done exactly what I hoped they wouldn't. Take an obviously popular figure like a Primarch and then make a small number and event exclusive and charge the earth, just so they can make it as hard as possible for people to buy.

GW really deserve all the third parties that are supplying the models they won't do properly.

Except it's not a small number run figure or event exclusive.

They had 1500 at GD UK as a prerelease, not 1500 produced period.

Forge World actively has stated that the Primarchs are not going to be limited editions.

Indeed.

Given the investment on this project I think we'll see FW keen to sell as many as they can.

I believe Angron, the other models they had on the day and possibly even a few more are supposed to be on general sale in... 2 weeks or so ?

.. One can possibly work this out by checking the dates of the next 2 GDs, IIRC Italy is the next one.. and somewhere else after that.

 Baragash wrote:
The main reason stock goes on the shelf so early for events like that is because by law you are required to have items on shelf at whatever price for a certain period of time (28 days IIRC) before you can promote it as being discounted.

6 weeks here in Oz.