today i bought a Imperial guard army containing the following:
4-6 infantry squads
2 platoon command squad
1 company command squad
1 shadowsword
2 leman russ
1 stormtrooper squad
and i have master of the fleet, master of ordenance some commisars and a Valkyrie
also a lot of heavy weapons, 4x heavy bolter, 2 or 3 autocannon, and 2 mortars
also should i use the banner bearers in command squads, and vox casters etc?
Well, if you have a bunch of infantry, but no chimeras, then you should probably run them as infantry platoons, rather than as veterans. Just take bare-bones platoons, and then shove a heavy weapon into every place you can put them. Buying some more of those (and especially getting yourself some special weapons) would probably be your next move.
As for the rest, I'd use the russes and stormtroopers and perhaps the valkyrie counts-ased a vendetta, or not, depending.
It doesn't seem like you have a lot of bad stuff with what you got, so I'd probably just field everything and see what feels best for you.
The important question is what is your budget for buying more stuff. You're going to need to spend more money no matter what you do, whether it's additional weapon upgrades (you don't seem to have melta/plasma, and your heavy weapons need to be ACs or LCs) or transport vehicles or something else entirely, so before you can pick a strategy and list you need to decide which strategies you can afford. Telling you to play Chimera vet spam isn't going to be very useful if you can't afford to buy Chimeras, for example.
standards if you're running foot guard, no otherwise. Don't bother with voxes at all. Only in some lists might you come across needing them, but until that day, don't bother modelling any.
That's a pretty solid start to an IG army OP. Pretty much everything in there will be useful.
Any idea what kind of army you wanted to run? You've got a good start to a general foot guard list, but it'll need more guardsmen.
Also, you want as many meltas, plasma, autocannons, and lascannons as possible. You can never have too many of any of those. They're the workhorse weapons for our infantry and are what you will win or lose by.
Oh you've probably got just enough to run a 1,000pts list with that, ignoring the shadowsword.
Yes, I just said 1,000pts. And that would be with 2 decent platoons, the stormtrooper squad, a CCS, and both the leman russes, as I'm guessing you probably don't have enough of the main 4 weapons to bring them in every slot.
Welcome to the Imperial Guard. We have more models than most armies have common sense.
Your big 4 weapons that you want to take are Autocannons, Meltaguns, Plasma guns, and lascannons. All are powerful, and fill multiple roles. What ratio of each that you take depends on the player. All are very strong weapons that fill several roles, and they're what give guardsmen their killing power. Same goes for other armies, but it's even more important IG, since we can bring so many.
Here's a rough list that I came up with to show you something you could field to get used to how your army plays. Pretty much everything you have is in here. You might have to proxy the lascannons and a couple plasma/melta, but I tried to keep close to what it sounds like you have
Spoiler:
+++ No Name (1000pts) +++
+++ 1000pt Imperial Guard 5th Ed (2009) Roster (Standard) +++
Selections:
+ HQ + (90pts)
* Company Command Squad (90pts)
Lascannon, Regimental Standard, Sniper Rifle
* Company Commander
Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol
* Leman Russ Squadron (150pts)
* Leman Russ
Heavy Bolter
* Leman Russ Squadron (150pts)
* Leman Russ
Heavy Bolter
That's a pretty solid all around list, and while it probably still has some fat here and there (an aegis for this army would be awesome for example) this would be a great list to get used to your guard army, as it has a bit of everything.
Your big 4 weapons that you want to take are Autocannons, Meltaguns, Plasma guns, and lascannons. All are powerful, and fill multiple roles. What ratio of each that you take depends on the player. All are very strong weapons that fill several roles, and they're what give guardsmen their killing power. Same goes for other armies, but it's even more important IG, since we can bring so many.
Here's a rough list that I came up with to show you something you could field to get used to how your army plays. Pretty much everything you have is in here. You might have to proxy the lascannons and a couple plasma/melta, but I tried to keep close to what it sounds like you have
Spoiler:
+++ No Name (1000pts) +++ +++ 1000pt Imperial Guard 5th Ed (2009) Roster (Standard) +++
Selections:
+ HQ + (90pts)
* Company Command Squad (90pts) Lascannon, Regimental Standard, Sniper Rifle * Company Commander Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol
* Leman Russ Squadron (150pts) * Leman Russ Heavy Bolter
* Leman Russ Squadron (150pts) * Leman Russ Heavy Bolter
That's a pretty solid all around list, and while it probably still has some fat here and there (an aegis for this army would be awesome for example) this would be a great list to get used to your guard army, as it has a bit of everything.
thanks that sounds good, i'll try that list soon and i get a aegis defence line today, so thats all good!
Jarl Marius wrote: i thought i had enough for 2 platoons?
or am i mistaken ?
You do, but at low points levels like this, it's hard to get a second one without losing points for cool stuff. Plus, you want something scoring riding in the vendetta. Throwing a meltavet squad in the vendetta gives you a second troop, a scoring unit in a vendetta, more points to put into your main platoon, and the vets will do more damage than anything else you could load in that vendetta. By taking your vet squad in the vendetta, your single platoon is more flexible than if you had to take 2 smaller ones. Plus, it just looks really awesome seeing those vets jump out and absolutely wreck something the turn they arrive. Basically, they're a second set of stormtroopers, except they've got more bodies, score, and have a 3rd meltagun.
For the platoon example, if I've got two 20 man platoons, I can only do two 20 man blobs. If I take a single 40 man platoon, I can blob those 4 squads into a massive 40 man blob, two 20 man blobs, a 30 man blob and a 10 man blob, a 20 and two 10's, etc. Just lets you be more flexible. Nothing wrong with taking 2 platoons though.
Jarl Marius wrote: and by the way, are medpacks any use? i think they are quite expensive in points
No, they're way too expensive. Rule #1 of IG: you don't win with fancy tricks, you win by sheer brutal efficiency of firepower. It is very rare that you'll ever buy an upgrade that doesn't directly involve getting another gun.
Ignore people telling you not to take vox. Firing 27 shots instead of 18 is going to get you more kills, anything that helps you achieve this a good thing IMHO. Also, I'd avoid the Master of Ordnance simply because his attack, while powerful, is wildly inaccurate. Play with what you've got, you'll quickly figure out what you need
Build what you've got, play a few games, get a feel for the army, then decide what you want to do with it. Aircraft/anti-aircraft and bodies are probably the first thing to address.
Ignore the snipers and grenade launchers, they suck and should never be used. What you need to do now is get more melta and plasma, about 10x of each is probably a decent short-term goal.
Ignore the snipers and grenade launchers, they suck and should never be used. What you need to do now is get more melta and plasma, about 10x of each is probably a decent short-term goal.
Knows what he's talking about.
Guardsman Bane wrote:Ignore people telling you not to take vox. Firing 27 shots instead of 18 is going to get you more kills, anything that helps you achieve this a good thing IMHO. Also, I'd avoid the Master of Ordnance simply because his attack, while powerful, is wildly inaccurate. Play with what you've got, you'll quickly figure out what you need
Doesn't.
Vox casters are effectively a 7.5 (minimum) point upgrade; one for the command squad, and one for each squad you plan on issuing orders to, and assuming you intend to issue orders to at least two squads other than the company commander.
Now, if you are going with a blob of 30+ guardsmen, then sure, a vox caster is worth it, because BiD is twin linking 3+ heavy and special weapons. FRFSRF is doubling 18+ lasguns firing effectiveness. You see where I'm going. 8+ orders are decent. 8+ rerollable are just a little more decent, and that's not worth the points on a 50pt squad with lasguns.
Voxes: Blobs? Sure. Individual squads; no.
Now, Peregrine, though put bluntly, is right; unfortunately, as cool as they are, snipers and GL's are rather awful. Sure, you can have arguments for them; ie. "Oh, GL's pair with ACs well" and "Snipers can rend!" but really, they're not worth it. Sadly, again, despite being cool, missile launchers and heavy bolters aren't good either.
What you want is
A lot of:
Lascannons
Plasmaguns
Some:
Meltaguns
Autocannons
A few:
Flamers
I also suggest magnetizing the leman russ; including the sponson weapons, because as of now sponsons are useless (for the most part) but some expect that to be fixed. And for the chimeras, I'd say Multilaser with Hull Heavy Bolter.
Oh, and enjoy the vendetta
Automatically Appended Next Post: OP, did you mention what style of Guard you're intending to play?
Mech, Foot, Gunline, and Aircav are the traditional archetypes, and the successful ones at that.
Jarl Marius wrote: ah i will work to that goal then , i will make a few heavy bolters to autokcannons, i think i have some bits extra so should work.
i intend to do foot guard, en veteran squads in the 2 chimera's
If you can; I'd grab another vet squad in a chimera or two; saturate targets a little bit. 2 chimeras are easy to pick off; 4-5 becomes a lot to deal with.
Jarl Marius wrote: in general, do i want them on my leman russes and chimera?
Not really. There are better places to spend those 10pts. If it's a vetsquad in a chimera for example, you could buy an Autocannon instead, and that essentially gives you a pintle mounted autocannon, which is WAY more useful, and that's if you're talking upgrades for things that would help the chimera. Those 10pts could go to giving your CCS a melta for "just in case", a vox for a blob and a CCS you know you'll be doing orders with a lot, or any number of things.
That's why you'll see IG players look at anything that's not a gun as a waste of points. Because with IG, literally every point counts. Simply put, we can bring so much firepower it causes other armies to weep tears of rage. We make our army scary by taking so many weapons that they just can't be shut down. Why bother spending 30pts on vox units, when I could buy 3 autocannons instead? Why bother with krak grenades when I could get that squad a meltagun instead? Why bother throwing heavy bolter sponsons on the russ, when that could get me a lascannon in a squad instead? Etc.
I will say though, a pair of voxes probably won't break your list. It's when you start taking them on every single unit that they really start to screw you over. Because if you're not careful, you can easily sink 50+points into trying to make a comprehensive vox network.
Which is really the biggest thing to watch with IG. We have so many upgrades available for each squad it's mind boggling. It takes a lot of self restraint to take only what you need. Because if you're not careful, all of the sudden your CCS has a medic, a standard, 2 plasma guns, 2 body guards, an astropath and officer of the fleet, carapace armor and camo cloaks, and a commander with fist, plasma pistol and melta bombs. Check out some of the "competitive" IG lists. Simply put, it's insane how much firepower an IG player can pack in when they set their minds to it. I guarantee you, if it's an upgrade, it IS a gun. It will also have lots of "copy paste", where the guy took a squad, multiplied it by 3, and then moved on to the next unit. It's just how this army works.
Remember, if you take 3 units to do a job:
1. The first will die, horribly.
2. The second will whiff, horribly, then die.
3. The third will probably pull it off, if only because you've used up all your allotted potential for failure for that turn.
alright!, with that in mind i try to build a list!
in a squad of 20 infantry, is it any use to take a comissar?
and is it worth giving him a power fist?
Unfortunately, regular commissars cant take fists. As for whether he's needed in a 20 man blob. Probably not. You can get a regimental standard on your CCS that will do his job almost as well for much cheaper, and affect multiple units.
Although I will admit, I still take them at time's out of nostalgia's sake, I don't really feel like I need them much anymore. Rerolling LD 8 is close enough to rerolling LD 9 that I don't really miss it.
Just make sure you're making the most of his abilities. People constantly whine about challenges and precise shooting, but I've found in practice that it's not quite as common as one would think, especially in friendly games. Give him a power axe/mace, and throw a couple maces on your sarges, and you have a decently cheap unit to protect your tanks from assaults and slow down the charger for a couple of turns.
i'll see how they work out, think i take one in it for coolness rating
Careful; those words are unfortunately the downfall of many a guard player. One or two "I took them for awesomes" is fine; but if one isn't careful, they can find themselves with a pile of scout sentinels, a Leman Russ punisher, and a squad of Ogryn because they are cool; and viola, your list is broken.
i try to make sure i don get tempted to that!
im only on 2 sniper special wep squads end a commissar
rest is dedicated to shooting the hell out of the opponent in a cheap way !
well, tbh i think 2 plasma and a flamer is better then a commissar, but i need more plasma en meltas, and don't know where to get them, for a reasonable price
2 leman russ wit hheavy bolters, lascannon and heavy bolter sponsons
Pretty crisp list.
Only things I'd touch up are:
Flip the CCS flamer and the PCS vox for another Meltagun for the vets. 3 meltas on vets is a big danger to enemy armor. the PCS doesn't really need to do orders; the CCS has got that covered.
The Leman russes don't really have any use for the extra weapons; they can only fire one ordinance weapon (the cannon) and the others have to snap shoot. Those 70 points will get you a lot of goodies elsewhere (a chimera for those vets, and three more flamers for your infantry squad?)
Jarl Marius wrote: yes i know about the russes, but the sponsons are glued on by the previoud owner, sadly
they can shoot the main cannon and the lascannon on full ballistic skill right? something to do with lumbering behemoth
Peep the FAQ on GW's site. Lumbering Behemoth is gone. Ordinance weapon, and everything else snap shoots :(
I'd take a hobby saw to your sponsons and lascannon, slice 'em at the base, and slap in some magnets. That way you're still WYSIWYG, but you have the choice of sponsons if they ever get good again; and I have hope they will one day.
On the plus side, if you dump the two hull lascannons, that gets you enough points for three meltaguns. Dump the voxes and the flamer in the CCS, and you've got enough points for a lascannon for that CCS, a lascannon for the PCS (or 4 of some cheaper weapon), and still have enough for a third melta for that vet squad.
Unfortunately, no. Autocannons are in REALLY high demand right now, because there are lots of people out there making hydras and riflemen dreads and the like that are using guard autocannon bitz because they don't have models of their own.
You can get autocannon bitz, but not for really all that cheap anywhere.
Thankfully, most guard lists aren't going to need many autocannons (if any), so you shouldn't have to spend too much on them.
I've done the maths on that btw, AC's are *slightly*better against all comparable targets when we consider carrier cost on a IS. And by slightly I mean "just a tiny bit", as in neglible.
That's down to whether you want to make your ISs a threat to AV14 or give the points saved onto other things.
Blaggard wrote:I've done the maths on that btw, AC's are *slightly*better against all comparable targets
I saw the math, but didn't see how one would draw that conclusion from said math.
I've recently switched to only running lascannons, and in each of the past 5 games, my lascannons have beaten up stuff that my autocannons never could have. Throw in the fact that they blow up stuff faster (due to being able to wreck vehicles outright and ignoring armor saves on terminators), and the strategic impact has been WAY worth the few dozen extra points to upgrade the autocannons to real guns.
It really, really isn't a case of autocannons kill everything slightly better. It's a case of autocannons killing AV10 better, and then bouncing low-strength/crappy Ap shots off of everything else. Efficiency is a poor substitute for effectiveness.
If anything, what the OP should do is to buy more heavy weapons so that he can get more of the good guns, and then sell off the autocannons at a HUGE markup to someone desperate for a psyfleman.
I mean, I redid the maths with the carrier costs added in. Haven't posted those but the lines near enough are touching. Against all targets except AV14 the AC is just slightly better, as in neglible.
You've had a good run with LCs, and the lists you've been running mean they fill a roll which would otherwise be lacking. I'm not longer arguing against them but rather arguing for more weapons elsewhere with the savings made.
by the way, if my ccs heavy flamer hits allied units with the template, do thy get damage and if a Leman russ shot scatters on my other units?
what about that?
Actually not sure about the heavy flamer part (though I wouldn't advice on putting your Warlord anywhere close enough to use a heavy flamer) but the Leman russ bit, yes. If it scatters onto your dudes, they take the hit.
20 points for a heavy flamer isn't too hot though;
I'd actually use those 20 points and throw 4 flamers on a PCS. 4 flamers will do insanely more than 1 heavy flamer, and by putting it on a CCS, you not only make a mediocre squad pretty killy, but keep your warlord safe(r).
Get autocannons and lascannons. Try both, figure out which you like better. You'll inevitably need some of each, but you'll figure out which weapon you prefer pretty quickly.
People on here seem to be split right down the middle as to what the "superior" heavy weapon is. Truth be told, you cant go wrong with either.
And good luck finding cheap autocannons man, we've all been there.
One thing you could do is take your heavy bolters, take a small plastic tube and add it to the end, and change the ammo box to look more like an autocannon drum mag. The heavy weapon boxes come with extra autocannon mags, and that would let you get 6 autocannons per box if you're clever and decent at conversions.
I don't think you can put templates on your own units intentionally. only exception to that is if shooting out of a transport then it doesn't count as a hit (as long as it isn't blast). If they scatter then you take the hits.
blast i already thought so, we played like that, but i thought maybe you could fire a flamer trough your own squad, since you can always shoot trough your own units with bolters/lasguns, in the rulebook it states that they move out of the way or something
and having the flamer on the frontline makes him die fast
Blaggard wrote:I don't think you can put templates on your own units intentionally.
Yeah, this. I'm pretty sure that includes allies, but maybe it doesn't. After all, it says to treat them like enemy units (for non-battle-brothers).
As for cheap autocannons, if you're talking about wanting to take them on vehicles, you don't really need autocannons. Aluminum tubing can be found at any hardware store, and it's pretty easy to make autocannon barrels out of it.
i wanted some to to take in heavy weapon squad, but i think i'll just buy another box, dont feel like putting a lot of efford in saving a few euros
Automatically Appended Next Post: i removed the side sponson of my tanks, sadly there is a hole behind it, where you can glue a hatch over, but i dont have those hatches :(
and cant find em on ebay either
since i bought a baselisk i have less need for some heavy weapon squads..
i have the following problem; removed the side sponson of my tanks, sadly there is a hole behind it, where you can glue a hatch over, but i dont have those hatches :(
and cant find em on ebay either
and im wondering what the best loadout for chimeras is
Jarl Marius wrote: since i bought a baselisk i have less need for some heavy weapon squads..
i have the following problem; removed the side sponson of my tanks, sadly there is a hole behind it, where you can glue a hatch over, but i dont have those hatches :(
and cant find em on ebay either
and im wondering what the best loadout for chimeras is
look for the hatches on bits sites, i used the winged skull plates from an old and wrecked chimera to hide my port holes.
best load out for chimera?
camping: hull heavy bolter
assault: hull heavy flamer.
my friend was upset when he built his GK chimera with a heavy bolter turret, though better ap I pointed out it had a harder time hurting the tougher guys, who usually have better armour. anyway. EVERYONE gets a save against the ML though
Oh crap you've got the older style russes. Good luck with that man. I bought 4 of em off ebay not too long ago, and thankfully that got me enough hatches to solve my problem, but I don't have any spares otherwise I'd send them to you.
Probably best to just make your own or repurpose some other hatch off of say a vehicle upgrade sprue or something.
yes it sucks big time, could you take a look if you can find them on ebay? my ebay search skills are low couldnt find any
otherwise i think i have to improvise
Jarl Marius wrote: yes it sucks big time, could you take a look if you can find them on ebay? my ebay search skills are low couldnt find any
otherwise i think i have to improvise
Look for 'imperial guard vehicle bitz"
People tend to sell baggies of old bitz occassionally, and these oftentimes will have hatches, old spotlights, the old hunter killer missiles (which look awesome) and other cool bitz and bobs. That would probably be your best bet.
eradicator was range 24 or 36in and it was S6 and ignores cover and has Ap 4 so it good for infantry and super light armor if you get side or rear shots if possible.
Oh deffinitly, you could put bolter sponsons on the eradicator and have it a super infantry killer but a battle tank can kill MEQ effectivly with its s8 ap3 battle cannon that also insta kills a lot, and it can damage armor pretty well.
Oh im not saying it is useless, im just saying i would have the better all around unit for taking on my oponents because if your opponent has objectives in cover then he will know to direct his anti tank at the eradicator and then thats gunna be one dead tank. The rule that ive noticed for guard is taking more of something is better and I dont see fielding multiple eradicators as a good idea as feilding multiple LRBT or demolishers.
Next thing you know, Ailaros will be waving around his 6 eradicator list saying it's amazing and driving every IG player on the continent into a frothing rage
Wouldn't think they'd be all that good against marine armies, due to them not caring about cover unless your gun takes away their armour save. I'd rather them have a 4/5/6+ cover than 3+ armour. And they cost more than the bog standard. Although against Guard/Nids/Orks/Eldar they'd be all right. Although you could then bring a Collusus for the AP3, 20 points less but the lack of AV14.
won another game today, againt chaos 2 lrbt and baselisk pounding the enemy to oblivion, and 20 man guard squads with first rank FIRE! second rank FIRE! love fox casters for that few point by the way
Well, the eradicator does wound them on 2's still. Against space marines in cover, an eradicator will do virtually the same job as an LRBT.
Of course, you don't get those few squishy out-of-cover moments with the eradicator, and its going to have a harder time against vehicles, but for blowing non-MEq stuff off of an objective, it obviously does a much better job.
There's not a lot of situations where there'll get a 3+ cover save though, save being in fortifications or going to ground. The bog standard would do better against them and against anything with T5+
Against non meq? I agree they'd do much better than the bog standard.
What about 2 LRBT, 2 LREradicators, 2 LRDemolishers? There's your 6 AV14 where each is somewhat specialized for different infantry (2 of them being somewhat multi-role) for 950 points.
It leaves the list for spamming guardsmen out of the cornhole.
won another game today, againt chaos 2 lrbt and baselisk pounding the enemy to oblivion, and 20 man guard squads with first rank FIRE! second rank FIRE! love fox casters for that few point by the way
Take great care; it's easy to not recognize any flaws or shortcomings in your list if you are winning.
Whenever you play, don't think "Well, that unit got job X done." Instead think "That unit did job X alright, but is there anything or any configuration that could have done job X cheaper/faster/smarter?"
i try to do that!
i know for sure the dreadnought i took as allies can be left away next time, same for the sniper special wep squad, instead of those im just gonna take another lrbt , and im gonna make room for marbo
