Been reading the wiki out of boredom in the office and came across a few loyalist chapters who use berserker-like tactics and have gained for themselves a reputation for carnage and devastation that even other imperial forces would think twice or even refuse to ask for their assistance.

Which basically brought to mind which of these chapters would be considered the most savage(not sure if that'd be the correct term) but not in the sense that they charge headlong into battle without any tactics like khorne berserkers.

Added space wolves into the mix since they're still considered berserkers by a lot of people in the imperium even though unlike the other chapters in the list they actually care about their allies and civilians caught in the midst of their battles

Feel free to put any other chapters that fall into the category i might have missed into mix

My vote goes to Flesh tearers

Flesh Tearers, no questions.

Given it's a poll I'd wager Blood Angels should be up there, too. Read an interesting short story in the WD once about how other Imperial troops perceive them after witnessing their close combat capabilities.

Yeah. But flesh tearers are Blood angels without their artistic side... Just the black Rage and extra crazy sauce.

That being said I agree they should be on the poll.

I would go for Flesh Tearers as well, but the Black Templars ain't kosher as well. The Marines Malevolent are just cynical, apart for that, they seem pretty standard. Dark Angels can often go over the top to maintain their secret eliminating loyal Imperials just for that. Iron Hands are also something I would rather not see in combat.

Flesh Tearers definitely!

Flesh Tearers, beyond a doubt.

Yup, flesh tearers

Tearers.

I'm getting tempted to play them as right after they fall to chaos. They are pretty borderline..

Grey Knights can be described as savage at times. They've killed as many of the Imperium as Chaos over the years to preserve their secret. Like DA+++

Fleh Tearers are borderline World Eaters though.

I think we've got to define what "savage" means, here. Grey Knights, or any other Imperial force that does this, aren't "savage" just because they are ruthless and pragmatic in doing what they are supposed to do.

From how I understood OP, this thread is about those Marines who get "out of control" during the fight, surrendering discipline and martial focus to some base instinct or berserker battle rage.

Fair enough, but whoever is on the recieving end of a Force Sword would disagree. Anyway, I believe Flesh Tearers are the most savage. Their symbol is a saw blade. /thread.

 Eetion wrote:
My vote goes to Flesh tearers

Million times this, when they lost their minds to red thirst they eat their own allies.

Carcaradons and Flesh tearers

Minotaurs. They're basically World Eaters. Not to mention forbidden from entering the Realm of Ultramar on pain of death.

Added Flesh Tearer as requested

Voted Carcharodons btw.

One worth mentioning (but probably not worth adding to the poll) is the Mortifactors. They're an Ultramarines successor that are so crazy, they scare the flip out of the Ultramarines.

No White Scars? They're pretty much Mongolians in space.

 Harriticus wrote:
No White Scars? They're pretty much Mongolians in space.

Well, the Ultramarines haven't forbidden them from entering their realm (Minotaurs), been talked down by Salamanders (Marines Malevolent), or involved in incidents with the church's over-zealous 'Amazon Brigades' (Space Wolves and Flesh Tearers).

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
Minotaurs. They're basically World Eaters. Not to mention forbidden from entering the Realm of Ultramar on pain of death.

It should be mentioned that the Ultramarine's banhammer was likely brought down because they publicly insulted Marneus Calgar, who is a very proud and pompous chap. Not to mention most Space Marines also hate them because they're pretty much the High Lords' favorite. They just have a golden stick up their asses because they have the full support of the highest echelon of Imperial rule. Their brutality on the battlefield is less "savagery" and more "we know we can get away with it, so let's do it". They're brutal and antagonistic for sure but they're nowhere close to World Eaters. The World Eaters were on a class all their own as far as savagery on the battlefield. The chapter that most exemplifies "savagery" on the battlefield would be the Flesh Tearers, no questions asked.

You don't go around insulting other chapters' leaders and then expect no reprisal for doing so. As for being the High Lords' favorites...the other chapters (and the Inquisition) have the right to be suspicious: one of the reasons Space Marines are allowed to be semi-autonomous in the first place is because their loyalty to the Emperor himself comes before their loyalty to any other Imperial organization. In a way, the Astartes are supposed to be the Emperor's private army. By seemingly currying the favor of the High Lords, they appear to subvert the Astartes principle of 'Emperor and Imperium first, politics second'.

Heh they also provoked a Second Founding Chapter of Ultramarine decent the Genesis Chapter, so basically they are the lapdogs of the High Lords, doesn't mean they are World Eaters though despite their martial prowess, smooth move.

Even if they aren't World Eaters, being the High Lords' lapdogs would mean censure not only from their fellow Astartes, but also from the Ordo Hereticus. Space Marines are supposed to be loyal to the Emperor, not the High Lords. There's no way the Ordo Hereticus would fail to see a similar situation between the Minotaurs and the old 'Brides of the Emperor'. Heck, we can even draw a connection to the traitor legions, when most of their legionaries placed loyalty to their Primarchs above their loyalty to the Emperor.

Flesh Tearers. Space Sharks are a distant second.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
Even if they aren't World Eaters, being the High Lords' lapdogs would mean censure not only from their fellow Astartes, but also from the Ordo Hereticus. Space Marines are supposed to be loyal to the Emperor, not the High Lords. There's no way the Ordo Hereticus would fail to see a similar situation between the Minotaurs and the old 'Brides of the Emperor'. Heck, we can even draw a connection to the traitor legions, when most of their legionaries placed loyalty to their Primarchs above their loyalty to the Emperor.

I don't think they would dance or provide more exotic pleasures for the High Lords. At least I hope not.

And there is a different matter having thousands of Brides as opposed to a single chapter they pick to go and exterminate other chapters.

 Beaviz81 wrote:


And there is a different matter having thousands of Brides as opposed to a single chapter they pick to go and exterminate other chapters.

I doubt the Ordo Hereticus would accept that as an excuse...moreover, there's every possibility the High Lords might be using their influence and authority to mask building up/expanding the chapter like how Huron Blackheart tried. They can you know: the High Lords have should have access to the gene-seed vaults on Mars.

Seems to be your interpretation, I have little problem with it, and mind you a representative of the Inquisition is sitting amongst the High Lords, so it seems okay with me. If you so dislike, it, then just regard it a s fanfiction.

 Beaviz81 wrote:
Seems to be your interpretation, I have little problem with it, and mind you a representative of the Inquisition is sitting amongst the High Lords, so it seems okay with me. If you so dislike, it, then just regard it a s fanfiction.

He/she's not always present, and there are times when they have to be elsewhere.

Please be advised that the Minotaurs have two distinct periods in their history: From their founding until M38, they were known as unreliable and obsessed with close-bombat -- their reputation in those days is pretty well the same as the current reputation of the Flesh Tearers. When the Minotaurs reappeared as an extremely well-armed force, they remained brutal but their approach had become more "considered and controlled."

Perhaps they might have been the equals in savagery of the Flesh Tearers in millenia past but they can no longer compete for that dubious honor.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:
Seems to be your interpretation, I have little problem with it, and mind you a representative of the Inquisition is sitting amongst the High Lords, so it seems okay with me. If you so dislike, it, then just regard it a s fanfiction.

He/she's not always present, and there are times when they have to be elsewhere.

A High Lord can't just take a day off. That's not how it works. They sit likely in endless meeting debating where to point the next crusade at and other boring stuff you don't really wanna know about. And it's not a chapter answering to just one person, they answer to all the High Lords.

The truth is, none of us knows how the High Lords work.

Space Sharks. Sheer malicious brutality with power armor...

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Inquisitorial_Representative#.UPJ9z_IQGVo

According to the article (whose reference is the Thorian Sourcebook), there are times when the Inquisitorial Representative leaves Terra to attend to his/her duties in the Inquisition. There were also times (like during the events that led to the Age of Apostasy and during the Wars of Vindication) when the position of Inquisitorial Representative was vacant due to the Inquisition being busy elsewhere.

Admiral Valerian wrote:By seemingly currying the favor of the High Lords, they appear to subvert the Astartes principle of 'Emperor and Imperium first, politics second'.

That's ... not how it was described, at least not from how I understood it.
The High Lords are the Emperor's representatives, interpreting his divine will and basically passing along his orders (or so the official story goes), which basically makes them the Emperor's mouthpiece. Defying the will of the Senatorum Imperialis thus means defying the Emperor Himself.

The High Lords have in the past ordered Space Marine Chapters around, they hold the key to sponsoring subsequent Foundings, and they make sure that a minimum of the Codex Astartes' decrees are followed by all Chapters - especially the geneseed purity checks. GW's "Imperial hierarchy" charts have always attached the Adeptus Astartes to the Adeptus Terra, from the 2E Codex Imperialis right to the current 6E rulebook. Some of them may not always play ball and value their sense of independence a little too much, but the High Lords' authority remains the law. Just like it works with the Astartes' relationship with the Inquisition.

Thus it is my belief that there could be repercussions for being "too close" to the High Lords ... just not from the Inquisition, but rather from certain other borderline-heretic Chapters who could regard such affiliation as treason towards their Brother-Marines from the more independent Chapters. I'm sure there are quite a few Space Marines who think that an Astartes should always come before "outside" Imperial authorities, as a matter of (misguided) respect and honour. The 40k version of bros before hoes, if you will.

@Lynata

AFAIK the Space Marines are like the Inquisition; while technically under the High Lords' authority, traditionally both the Inquisition and the Space Marines answer to the Emperor alone, so while they follow the High Lords' decrees, if they go too far (like during the Age of Apostasy when the High Lords had basically become yes-men for Vandire), both organizations could kick ass, so to speak. As I recall, the Astartes did just that along with the Mechanicum at the end of the Age of Apostasy (the Inquisition was busy elsewhere). And there was that whole fiasco with Saint Basilius; there was nothing the High Lords could do (or rather, they apparently didn't do anything at all, no idea why) to stop the furious survivors from declaring said saint a 'false idol' and ruthlessly destroying his legacy.

You are claiming the Inquisition and the Astartes are much the same? Wow, news for me. The Inquisition had some Astartes in their ranks originally, but it ended there. Now the Astartes are just a rapid-reacting response-force for the IOM doing the precision-strikes so many books are written about. While the Inquisition hunts witches, xenos and demons, with or without the help of Asartes.

I said they're like the Inquisition, a semi-autonomous organization. Did you even read my post? Or if you did, have you perhaps never taken reading comprehension classes?

I read your post, and I asked a sensible question. The Space Marines have things monitoring them, Inquisition, AdMech and such. That's for sure, they are given relatively free hands, but not entirely as if they try to deviate too much from the Codex Astartes things tends to go awry, but that's old news, and you don't need to take everything I write as a personal attack. I was merely pointing out the danger of comparing the Astartes with the Inquisition.

Nothing wrong with comparing the two, since apart from the Adeptus Mechanicus, only the Space Marines match the Inquisition's semi-autonomy from the rest of the Imperial hierarchy.

EDIT: Not to mention religious independence. Lots of spank from the Ecclesiarchy I hear, though the Astartes don't seem to care, and as someone who came to 40k from the Horus Heresy novels, I approve: screw the Ecclesiarchy.

Compare them instead to the Adepta Sororitas, they have relative freedom in their conduct of warfare and can conduct their own investigations into the Eccleschiarchy.

As for the second part, that's the Space Marine-POV, for a normal person the God-Emperor is a living god. He eventually embraced religion because humans needed something to believe in. And WH30k is a lot different from the decaying IOM of wh40k, not much but roughly the same place, but infinately more horrible.

 Beaviz81 wrote:
Compare them instead to the Adepta Sororitas, they have relative freedom in their conduct of warfare and can conduct their own investigations into the Eccleschiarchy.

Ugh. I hate those girls (or their organization). They're basically Word Bearers 2.0.

And WH30k is a lot different from the decaying IOM of wh40k, not much but roughly the same place, but infinately more horrible.

No kidding. For starters, Legiones Astartes sounds and functions better and more badass than Adeptus Astartes. Not to mention they had nice tech. Then it was an age of progress. Of hope. Of reclamation, exploration, and conquest (ok, so they still do that now, but back then, conquering the galaxy for Mankind actually meant something). If it wasn't for BFG, I'd probably stick to the Horus Heresy novels and to gak with the 41st Millennium.

Whoa flesh tearers shot to the top of the polls since i added them lol

Angry marines. No one else comes close.

 undead flesh addict wrote:
Angry marines. No one else comes close.

If they were an official chapter, i wouldn't have started this poll anymore

This thread could double as 'which chapter has the worst name'.

Fluffwise all marines are pretty savage if you get on the wrong side of them, neckbeard opinions aside the Gauntlets of Ultramar sure would make a mess.

In descending order:

Angry Marines
Mortifactors
Flesh Tearers

The Angry Marines are non-canon and just made for fun,nothing else. If they shall be included, then the Female Marines with PMS should top the list.

Disclaimer this is a joke, nothing else so please not be offended.

I'm surprised the Knights of Blood haven't been mentioned. Surely they would trump the Flesh Tearers for bloodthirsty brutality. Since they are really just the version of the Flesh Tearers that was so bloodthirsty and brutal, they actually managed to get themselves kicked out of the imperium and declared renegade by the high lords.

Maybe being declared renegade disqualifies them from being on the list. However, on the other hand... They are still loyal chapter. They never abandoned the imperium. It just got fed up of them.

It's hard to comment on the Knights of Blood given how little information is available. But the Flesh Tearers ... well, their founding Chapter Master was best friends with Kharn, after all, and the very name of the Chapter comes from him being called "the Flesh Tearer" in pit fights with World Eaters.

Guys, Lamenters.

Seriously.

They are weeping-ladies. Paid to weep and scratch their cheeks at funerals. Seriously.

*room goes silent*

"That's not funny!"

*Malakim runs from thread sobbing*

"No one understand us!"

 Manchu wrote:
The truth is, none of us knows how the High Lords work.

Let me play a song for them on the galaxies smallest violin.

I'm gonna say the poor Guardsman who has is innards eaten by a Brain-eater worm has it a bit tougher then a High Lord in his luxurious palace safe on Terra.

Their working conditions aren't the issue; the rules of procedure they follow is -- and we know nothing about it.

Well on the tabletop they would be tougher than any Space Marine, and only something really powerful could beat them.

 Beaviz81 wrote:
Well on the tabletop they would be tougher than any Space Marine, and only something really powerful could beat them.

Not to sidetrack the topic, but I think a Space Marine could probably beat up the Ecclesiarch.

Yeah but not on the tabletop.

Dem Flesh Tearers be pretty damn narly dudes. They definitely have my vote.

My vote? Angry Marines.

 Manchu wrote:
*room goes silent*

"That's not funny!"

*Malakim runs from thread sobbing*

"No one understand us!"

Hahaha bloody hilarious. Man I laughed hard about this one.

 Manchu wrote:
Their working conditions aren't the issue; the rules of procedure they follow is -- and we know nothing about it.

Their rules of procedure are quite simple: whatever they want.

Angry Marines. It's the only way to be sure.

Marines Malevolent hands down, the flesh tearers suffer basically from a mental disorder, the Malevolent not only have total lack of regard for life but pretty much hate it, seeing all imperial citizens as borderline guilty of treason, just some deserving death more than others.

I voted Carcharodons. When I first read about them, they instantly became one of my favorites. Their entry into the Badab War and subsequent execution of the war was really cool imho. Sure there are the Flesh Tearers but their savagery just seems more wanton and mindless. For me, in the 40K Millennium, Imperial forces prone to savagery do so consciously and without remorse but also fight intelligently. For me, the fact that the Carcharodons operate in the dark space above the galaxy, makes their savagery on the battlefield very real and calculated as a result of whatever they regularly encounter in their area of operations above the galaxy.

My vote went to The Minotaurs, they redefine Anger and Awesome all in Power Armour shaped little packets......

Flesh Tearer's hands down. BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD G- ..... EMPEROR!!!!

Angry marines.

Always angry, all the time.

 Ninjacommando wrote:
Angry marines.

Always angry, all the time.

NOT ANGRY ENOUGH!

Angry Marines don't count. If we're going to count non-existent chapters then how about we just make one up called the "Most Savage Loyalists" and boom there's the clear answer.

Manchu, don't be silly.

Ascalam
Gargantuan Gargant

Waagh Grabwotz : 83100 and climbing

Im Sorry im new and this is probably a stupid question but do you mean to say you have 83 thousand points worth of orks....?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ascalam
Gargantuan Gargant

Waagh Grabwotz : 83100 and climbing

Im Sorry im new and this is probably a stupid question but do you mean to say you have 83 thousand points worth of orks....?

Probably Space Wolves, they seem a bit radical.

Flesh Tearers, they literally tear flesh, they like it so much they named themselves that.

Sw can be the most Savage when they want to be,

Knights of Blood are on the same scale as Flesh Tearers IMO.

Carcharodons, Space Wolves and Minotaurs basically use controlled aggression and savagery as a tactic right? Flesh tearers are more like borderline berserkers, which kinda makes it more reasonable why they're top on the polls even when i added the late

P.S
I voted Carcharodons myself

I would have to say the Space Wolves are a good consideration due to their role as described in the HH novels. They are the Emperor's big stick for dealing with unruly legions and took out an entire home world of a legion steeped in the powers of the mystic chaos. It was the Sons of Russ sent out to the different legions to dispatch disloyal Primarchs if the need should arise and only a squad at that. Had Horus not made them unavailable to a large extent, I'm sure that it would be these "Hounds of War" to met out the punishment to Horus had things progressed differently. It explains why they had to be dealt with so carefully in the outset of the Heresy. Then there is the Wulfen...

Knights of Blood are currently excommunicae traitoris due to their excessive savagery. Gabriel Seth has actually patched up the Flesh Tearer image recently by ensuring they avoid taking to the battlefield alongside allies and reducing collateral damage. They are making a real effort to avoid the same fate of the KoB this in itself lends them civilised points. The Blood Drinkers are pretty nuts as they have a lot of vampiric ritual.

Thing is though I completely disagree with the whole "BA successors are one step from damnation" viewpoint. I don't think that the KoB have fallen to chaos after all they returned to the Baal system when they heard it was threatened by the nids and Kha'Bandas invasion. They may be berserk mutters but chaos they ain't.

I gues the coin toss come down between flesh tearers and chaharadons.

Space Wolves are savage yes, but it is a controlled savagnes they unleash. They bleak compared to the fleash tearers. In the same token the minotaur are the token "bad cop" space marines (they have favoret enemies loyal space marines in the badab war) but they also loose out to their big brothers the chacaradons.

While the flesh tearers are berserkers shredding the opponent in a bloddy mellee it is nothing compared to the chacharadons during the badab war. The flesh tearers do not kill every last one of the opponents, even the civilians in the fluff. The chacharadons refuse to listen to orders once unleaches like ashark that has smelled blood, They even get the rage special rule once they have killed an opposing unit.

The only reason flesh tearers are getting so many votes is that the badab war books have not been read by as many as have read about the flesh tearers. So the tearers winn by good PR, but the throne should belong to the chacaradons. You do not belive me? Read up on them in the badab war.

I say Flesh Tearers, they are basically the Red Thirst and Black Rage incarnate. They lose so many members to these that there's only about 12 of them left now. They're more likely to eat your face at the end of the mission than shake your hand and say "Job well done."
Second goes to Minotaurs, just because they like go out at full strength and rip apart everything in sight. Gang of bastards the lot of them though.

Sir Samuel Buca, while you are right about the miniotaurs to go full streangth and rip everything apart they do not have anything in the chacharadons who will do so and more. Also, while the flesh tearers will eat your face off the chahcaradons will hunt down all your friends and kill them in a most grusome fassion.

 Niiai wrote:
Sir Samuel Buca, while you are right about the miniotaurs to go full streangth and rip everything apart they do not have anything in the chacharadons who will do so and more. Also, while the flesh tearers will eat your face off the chahcaradons will hunt down all your friends and kill them in a most gruesome fassion.

Its fashion.

On topic : I agree with Sir Samuel

I say Carcharodons, because as barbaric as other chapters can be, they can behave themselves enough to live inside the bounds of the Imperium. Carcharodons are out in the extragalactic void for a reason.

I think Flesh Tearers...

...are only winning because they've been fleshed out a lot. Carcharodons haven't, there's so little info on them. But based on what we do know about the Carcharodons, I think they are the most savage.

Charcarodons are pretty badass. And mean. And everything. Atleast the other chapter has something that resembles civilized behavior.

I think flesh tearers and Carcharodons would be on par with each other, would actually help though if we knew more about the latter chapter though

All that we know of the Carcharodons regarding this matter is that they were the most savage of the Chapters fighting the Badab War. Do you think that's a high standard or a low one? At least one SoB commander, meanwhile, considered the Flesh Tearers savage as compared to Orks.

During the Tranquility Campaign, the Fire Angels got so cheesed off at the Carcharodons for their methods of war, methods involving genocide, that blood was "shed between them in sporadic skirmishes" -IA 10.

That's still the Badab War ...

That's some colour into the standard you were asking about. And given the weapons, and names of said weapons, of their chapter master, I'd think the Carcharodons are safe in the bloodthirsty department, so I doubt it's like they were the most bloodthirsty people in a war full of gentlemen.

The Fire Angels' persepctive does not strike me as a particularly threshold.

 CuddlySquig wrote:
And given the weapons, and names of said weapons

By that standard, the BA are the most savage. They have the Blood Blooders of Bloody Blooding.

The Flesh Tearers' advantage remains they have more canonical material to source in such an argument.

 Manchu wrote:
By that standard, the BA are the most savage. They have the Blood Blooders of Bloody Blooding.

Not quite. The Carcharodons have the Blooded and Bloody Blood of Bloody Bloodletting. But they don't mention it.

 CuddlySquig wrote:
The Flesh Tearers' advantage remains they have more canonical material to source in such an argument.

By that argument, any Chapter you've barely heard of could be the most savage. Or the most anything, for that matter.

That's true. But then you'd get bad reviews on fanfiction.net for making a mary-sue chapter.

 CuddlySquig wrote:
That's true. But then you'd get bad reviews on fanfiction.net for making a mary-sue chapter.

So let's avoid writing bad Space Shark fanfics here.

Where are the Black Templars or the Dark Angels.

as much as i love the Black Templars or the dark angels, they're not exactly known for bringing about wanton carnage whereever they go to war, in my opinion anyway.