However, it's worth remembering that if a model has two or more melee weapons he gains +1 attack in close combat.
Engaged models with two single-handed weapons get +1 attack. Models with more than two weapons gain no additional benefit; you only get one extra Attack, even if you have four arms and a sword in each.
As far as I can see, if you can only use two weapons. So he would have to choose which two of the three he would attack with in the combat.
Actually I was referring to something similar to the rules on P.42 about fighting with two single handed weapons.
Vehicle squadrons work just like infantry units for the porpoise of allocating impacts and resolving armor penetration (closest to farthest).
In the edition of paper cars, this makes them unbelievable resistant. How, when simply put you form them in arrow head shape, once the vehicle at front takes 1 or 2 glancing, you rotate he front position. Combine this with the fact that glancing no longer bothers the vehicle and that pen chart is now harder to destroy the vehicle, and they just became some really tough "$%"$#%". Imagine a squadron of 3 bare bones demolishers, you will need to do 6 glancing hits on AV14 before the NEXT one kill a tank. Not only that but inmovilized no longer kills the vehicle, from there on that vehicle acts on its own rather than as part of the squadron.
Before i get my panties all bunched up over these new rules changes, i am going to spend some time with the rules book and really go over it with a fine tooth comb. THen Marinade over the rules, etc. That said....
Fortifications will now be super fun to make. Cant wait to bust out a Nurgle Bastion using bits from city fight and a ton of green stuff.
Seems like they made wound allocation in melee over intensive and the Uber Nerf to Vehicles was a bit excessive.
Joey wrote:Every single person I've spoken to is positive about the new rules, myself included. They seem pretty cool and balancing.
Only the internet disagrees
I really don't see a lot of doomsayers even here. I know you've tried to pick a few fights, but I'm just not seeing the waves of suicide cults that you are.
Griever wrote:
azazel the cat wrote:There ya go, Tyranid players: The psyker power "Iron Arm". Now your MCs don't get ID'd and it's really freaking tough to wound them. Endurance and Warp Speed also make some MCs a little scary, too.
ALSO: I would love to know what "Strikedown" refers to, as well as the "Beam"-type of weapon (but I'm sure we can guess it's like the Death Ray or JotWW)
The issue with this is that MC's and Tyranid's don't just benefit from these powers, almost every gets them.
Other than the Tyranids, only Vanilla Marines, SW, BA and IG get those powers. And I just don't see SW ever swapping out their currently-awesome list of powers to roll the dice and hope for something good.
Red Comet wrote:I think Halberds are considered Power Axes from what I remember. So essentially Halberds go down to I1 but then back up to I3...but that's if the rulebook rules take precedence over whatever is written in the codex
No no no. From the rules posted in this thread somewhere, it is almost certain that force weapon halberds will be treated as AP3 +2I weapons.
Joey wrote:Every single person I've spoken to is positive about the new rules, myself included. They seem pretty cool and balancing.
Only the internet disagrees
I really don't see a lot of doomsayers even here. I know you've tried to pick a few fights, but I'm just not seeing the waves of suicide cults that you are.
Griever wrote:
azazel the cat wrote:There ya go, Tyranid players: The psyker power "Iron Arm". Now your MCs don't get ID'd and it's really freaking tough to wound them. Endurance and Warp Speed also make some MCs a little scary, too.
ALSO: I would love to know what "Strikedown" refers to, as well as the "Beam"-type of weapon (but I'm sure we can guess it's like the Death Ray or JotWW)
The issue with this is that MC's and Tyranid's don't just benefit from these powers, almost every gets them.
Other than the Tyranids, only Vanilla Marines, SW, BA and IG get those powers. And I just don't see SW ever swapping out their currently-awesome list of powers to roll the dice and hope for something good.
I'm thinking Tyranids are the only army that can really benefit from Telekinetics. It primarily provides powers for situations the Imperials are already strong in. That said, I doubt many people will risk rolling on the TK table hoping for Telekine Forcefield(Gaunts with 5+ invulnerable that bounce back Overwatch shots) when they're much more likely to get a solid option from Telepathy or Biomancy.
Dang. I would've hoped GW would provide a few more fortifications, even if they don't yet have models for them.
I guess Xenos Fortifications can be my next Proposed Rules project then.
Ork Bastions and the Tellyporta, Tyranids Spores/Nodes and the Tentacle thing off Half Life, Necron Obelisks, Tau Bunkers and Turrets, Eldar Shield Generators, Dark Eldar House of Stationary Daggers, this could be fun...
Praxiss wrote:OOh. Question regardign glancing hits and Hull points..
Does the rulebook mention Super Heavies at all? We've all been waiting to see if Entropic Striek gets FAQ's vs super-heavies....what about gauss induce glancing hits?
I'm assuming these do nothing agsainst Structure Points and just auto remove Hull Points. Which means that for SuperHeavies you still roll on the damage table as normal for Glancing Hits.
I've seen about 10 people asking these questions and no answer. Especialy what the 6e says about gauss, would appreciate an answer, thanks.
Ya know, I was looking at the whole flyers hit on a 6+ thing, and I was wondering:
Does it specify whether it is a 6 to hit, or does it say use a BS1?
Both are the same thing essentially, but it makes a big difference for BS modifiers making flyers easier to hit. Think Tau targeting matrix (or whatever the real name is).
Joey wrote:Every single person I've spoken to is positive about the new rules, myself included. They seem pretty cool and balancing.
Only the internet disagrees
I really don't see a lot of doomsayers even here. I know you've tried to pick a few fights, but I'm just not seeing the waves of suicide cults that you are.
Griever wrote:
azazel the cat wrote:There ya go, Tyranid players: The psyker power "Iron Arm". Now your MCs don't get ID'd and it's really freaking tough to wound them. Endurance and Warp Speed also make some MCs a little scary, too.
ALSO: I would love to know what "Strikedown" refers to, as well as the "Beam"-type of weapon (but I'm sure we can guess it's like the Death Ray or JotWW)
The issue with this is that MC's and Tyranid's don't just benefit from these powers, almost every gets them.
Other than the Tyranids, only Vanilla Marines, SW, BA and IG get those powers. And I just don't see SW ever swapping out their currently-awesome list of powers to roll the dice and hope for something good.
I would, i would rather twin link my 5 long fangs o my gray hunters when assaulting/shooting than get 1d6 str 7 shots (average 3). So i depends what the role of the Rune priest is going to be. SW lore has no buff or debuffs, they are mostly shooting attacks, force multipliers tend to be better than flat out damage.
I think the new rules are alright for the most part, but im worried about my orks and having to take casualties from the front during shooting even. That with the random charge range is gonna lead to many disappointing assault phases.
Truffle wrote:Got the rulebook in front of me. I just have to ask why Games workshop thinks tanks have to be like a sheet of glass. Uber nerf with the hull points system I think. Sad face :( Unless some one can point out that i have misread?
Not misread...but think about this, as many have not;
Until you destroy a tank, it is very hard to stop it.
Glances have zero chance of suppressing them. Think about that.
Missiles will never, ever, stop a land raider from moving or shooting.
It will take almost 24 missile hits to get the needed four glances to remove the hull points.
So, yes, you can now (almost) reliably kill vehicles with concentrated fire...but it is much harder to stop them.
Red Comet wrote:I think Halberds are considered Power Axes from what I remember. So essentially Halberds go down to I1 but then back up to I3...but that's if the rulebook rules take precedence over whatever is written in the codex
No no no. From the rules posted in this thread somewhere, it is almost certain that force weapon halberds will be treated as AP3 +2I weapons.
How so? Aren't halberds Unwieldy? I'm hoping you are right though since I really want to build a 50 Man Strong Purifier Spam list.
Praxiss wrote:OOh. Question regardign glancing hits and Hull points..
Does the rulebook mention Super Heavies at all? We've all been waiting to see if Entropic Striek gets FAQ's vs super-heavies....what about gauss induce glancing hits?
I'm assuming these do nothing agsainst Structure Points and just auto remove Hull Points. Which means that for SuperHeavies you still roll on the damage table as normal for Glancing Hits.
I've seen about 10 people asking these questions and no answer. Especialy what the 6e says about gauss, would appreciate an answer, thanks.
Truffle wrote:Got the rulebook in front of me. I just have to ask why Games workshop thinks tanks have to be like a sheet of glass. Uber nerf with the hull points system I think. Sad face :( Unless some one can point out that i have misread?
Not misread...but think about this, as many have not;
Until you destroy a tank, it is very hard to stop it.
Glances have zero chance of suppressing them. Think about that.
Missiles will never, ever, stop a land raider from moving or shooting.
It will take almost 24 missile hits to get the needed four glances to remove the hull points.
So, yes, you can now (almost) reliably kill vehicles with concentrated fire...but it is much harder to stop them.
True true. Im not thinking of the big tanks though I am more thinking of longevity of say a rhino or a chimera. Chimera for sure some gaks gonna get its side so easy. I see there being many auto cannons popping up now and stuff light that. I may very well completely remove my lemanruss tanks (depending on playtesting of course) or squad them up. I just dont see why they had to do it tanks are quite frail anyway if you get near them which is gonna be easier now with super fast jetbikes and stuff thats ap 2 getting a plus 1 on the damage roll and ap 1 getting a plus 2.
I had hoped this version may be less melta spam but with that baby bonus Im keeping mine.
I do however like pretty much everything else in the book. Just not takes tanks are boned
Just realized that the rules for handling wound allocation when two models are the same distance away from the attacker is completely different in assault and shooting.
Shooting: Roll randomly to determine the target between all eligible models. (IE, those that tie in distance away from the enemy unit) Continue this method until there is a clear cut closest.
Assault: (This WILL slow things much more than the shooting wound allocation..) Wounds must be allocated to a model in base to base contact with the attacker. If there are multiple models, the owner of the models being attacked gets to choose where the wounds go. If there are no models in b2b, apply to the closest enemy.
Where this will suck is units with a lot of mixed wargear.
"Okay.. My front rank power sword guy attacks. Who takes the wounds? Okay, now my front ranked falchion guys. Now my stave guys.. Okay, your turn since were at the same initiative... Okay, now to the next initiative step..
Billagio wrote:I think the new rules are alright for the most part, but im worried about my orks and having to take casualties from the front during shooting even. That with the random charge range is gonna lead to many disappointing assault phases.
1) Your average charge range from from 6" to 7", that's not bad.
2) Overwatch is BS 1. If you charge a full squad of Space marines and they rapid fire you, that's 1.6 dead boyz. From a 10 man squad. It's not that bad.
Red Comet wrote:I think Halberds are considered Power Axes from what I remember. So essentially Halberds go down to I1 but then back up to I3...but that's if the rulebook rules take precedence over whatever is written in the codex
No no no. From the rules posted in this thread somewhere, it is almost certain that force weapon halberds will be treated as AP3 +2I weapons.
How so? Aren't halberds Unwieldy? I'm hoping you are right though since I really want to build a 50 Man Strong Purifier Spam list.
Regular power halberds / axes are unwieldly, but under the rules for force weapons the book says force weapons are like regular power weapons with their special rules on top. GK halberds are force weapons with other special rules, so the force weapon entry should control, meaning they should be AP3 +2I Force weapons. They will explain in the FAQ to make sure everyone is on the same page.
Thunderfrog wrote:"Okay.. My front rank power sword guy attacks. Who takes the wounds? Okay, now my front ranked falchion guys. Now my stave guys.. Okay, your turn since were at the same initiative... Okay, now to the next initiative step..
Power swords and falchions have the same AP value and same initiative value so shouldn't they be rolled at the same time?
Truffle wrote:Got the rulebook in front of me. I just have to ask why Games workshop thinks tanks have to be like a sheet of glass. Uber nerf with the hull points system I think. Sad face :( Unless some one can point out that i have misread?
Not misread...but think about this, as many have not;
Until you destroy a tank, it is very hard to stop it.
Glances have zero chance of suppressing them. Think about that.
Missiles will never, ever, stop a land raider from moving or shooting.
It will take almost 24 missile hits to get the needed four glances to remove the hull points.
So, yes, you can now (almost) reliably kill vehicles with concentrated fire...but it is much harder to stop them.
I think people will start using as much auto-glance as they can. Friday I plan to test my theory that Eldar Vibro Cannons will bring the pain. Taking 3 full batteries is 9 auto-glances that don't require a roll to hit if the enemy is within 36 inches. They'll get concentrated down sure, but they should get a chance to kill their points back easily enough. Plus those things are ruled via FAQ as able to hit enemies (your own units) and anything in CC underneath the 36 inch line. Take that flyers.
Billagio wrote:I think the new rules are alright for the most part, but im worried about my orks and having to take casualties from the front during shooting even. That with the random charge range is gonna lead to many disappointing assault phases.
1) Your average charge range from from 6" to 7", that's not bad.
2) Overwatch is BS 1. If you charge a full squad of Space marines and they rapid fire you, that's 1.6 dead boyz. From a 10 man squad. It's not that bad.
Even better if you have a full unit of Shootaz when changed thats 60 shot at BS1 instead of BS2, not bad.
Billagio wrote:I think the new rules are alright for the most part, but im worried about my orks and having to take casualties from the front during shooting even. That with the random charge range is gonna lead to many disappointing assault phases.
1) Your average charge range from from 6" to 7", that's not bad.
2) Overwatch is BS 1. If you charge a full squad of Space marines and they rapid fire you, that's 1.6 dead boyz. From a 10 man squad. It's not that bad.
I would be more worried about chasing down the smurfs while taking hot lead to the face than the overwatch eventual wound.
Truck Rush will be the ONLY viable ork tact, and that is a bad thing.
Red Comet wrote:I think Halberds are considered Power Axes from what I remember. So essentially Halberds go down to I1 but then back up to I3...but that's if the rulebook rules take precedence over whatever is written in the codex
No no no. From the rules posted in this thread somewhere, it is almost certain that force weapon halberds will be treated as AP3 +2I weapons.
How so? Aren't halberds Unwieldy? I'm hoping you are right though since I really want to build a 50 Man Strong Purifier Spam list.
Regular power halberds / axes are unwieldly, but under the rules for force weapons the book says force weapons are like regular power weapons with their special rules on top. GK halberds are force weapons with other special rules, so the force weapon entry should control, meaning they should be AP3 +2I Force weapons. They will explain in the FAQ to make sure everyone is on the same page.
I really hope that's the case! I'll have to look at that page again and re-read it!
I just looked at it and it seems like your interpretation is correct because all of the Nemesis Force Weapons have unique rules for themselves in CC so they are all treated as AP3 Melee Weapons with whatever else the entry describes.
Thunderfrog wrote:"Okay.. My front rank power sword guy attacks. Who takes the wounds? Okay, now my front ranked falchion guys. Now my stave guys.. Okay, your turn since were at the same initiative... Okay, now to the next initiative step..
Power swords and falchions have the same AP value and same initiative value so shouldn't they be rolled at the same time?
Ah, probably. I hadn't thought of that, and no one takes Falchions anyways. lol. Remember the huge debate on whether or not they gave two extra attacks or one? Anyways, I was thinking it would matter because of this..
FFFFSSSS
XXXXXXXXX
F = Falchion, S = Sword
X = Enemy mooks.
Since the Falchion owners have 3 attacks charging instead of 2, they can potentially take out individually modeled enemies in front of them and then spread into the back rank if all goes well. Wouldnt it affect who the swords can hit on their swings?
But what you said makes sense. Here's 20 Str 4 AP 3 attacks. Allocate away from front to back.
Billagio wrote:I think the new rules are alright for the most part, but im worried about my orks and having to take casualties from the front during shooting even. That with the random charge range is gonna lead to many disappointing assault phases.
1) Your average charge range from from 6" to 7", that's not bad.
2) Overwatch is BS 1. If you charge a full squad of Space marines and they rapid fire you, that's 1.6 dead boyz. From a 10 man squad. It's not that bad.
Wrong. There was no "average" charge range before. It was always 6.
Now, you have a chance to roll a 2, or a 12. Just because 2 dice tend to roll an average of 7 doesn't mean they will all the time.
Staves are actually very powerful now. If you can counter move them into contact with your opponents power weapon, or power fist all wounds from that guy have to go through the stave first. In essence you can use the stave to protect the rest of the squad.
I like how wound allocation has been streamlined, and in essence it has become much more tactical. Now a bike squad is actually quite powerful for its ability to be tactically placed. Same for CC as tactical placement will be key even 1-2 turns before you plan to assault. Another level of playing(like the 3d chess) compared to before and I am excited. Also the order you have your opponent take wounds in the shooting phase will be very tactical as well. If you want to try and get through the mooks and auto fail the actual target, make them take the bolters first. However if you want to risk it more you make the front guys take the no save wounds and then have your actual target take the bolter wounds. Very exciting.
If they are the same strength and AP I believe they are rolled for together, so the falcions/sword issue probably would not come up.
FAQs should be up in the next 24 hours or so(assuming they are aiming for midnight in Australia but that is pure conjecture)
Praxiss wrote:OOh. Question regardign glancing hits and Hull points..
Does the rulebook mention Super Heavies at all? We've all been waiting to see if Entropic Striek gets FAQ's vs super-heavies....what about gauss induce glancing hits?
I'm assuming these do nothing agsainst Structure Points and just auto remove Hull Points. Which means that for SuperHeavies you still roll on the damage table as normal for Glancing Hits.
I've seen about 10 people asking these questions and no answer. Especialy what the 6e says about gauss, would appreciate an answer, thanks.
Read the first page.
fyi I did, I hav eread everything on it, there are only rumors about Gauss and hull points, and many of the rumors were from the leaked "no holds barred" 6e v0.01, so those arne't the final rules, I was asking to hear from somebody with the rule book on these topics.
Matt.Kingsley wrote:I'm one of the few who LIKES most the rules, I just hate random charge and random psychic powers
I'm not keen on vehicles getting more fragile, but am happy to hold off judgement on that one until I try the new rules on the table. Random charge just replaces not being able to pre-measure, so I see no problem there. And random Psychic Powers were how it worked when I started in 2nd edition, so I have no problem with that either... Sure, it can be frustrating when you don't draw the specific powers you want... but that's ultimately no different from the frustration of spending a whole game rolling 1s for every 2nd armour save...
From what I've seen so far, really the only part of the new rules I've seen that I don't like is the slowed-down wound allocation for complex units. Which is doubly disappointing since it's the main thing I was hoping they would fix this edition.
They ahve not changed at all really. From what I can see anyway Basicly you say how far your tank shocking then you move in a straight line enemy takes test or runs like they used to 1 model can death or glory if they stun imobilize or destroy the tank they are ok if not they die. Rest of squad moves out of the way same as they did tank then keep going until it has reached the distance state or gets to impassable terrain or board edge.
Matt.Kingsley wrote:I'm one of the few who LIKES most the rules, I just hate random charge and random psychic powers
I'm not keen on vehicles getting more fragile, but am happy to hold off judgement on that one until I try the new rules on the table. Random charge just replaces not being able to pre-measure, so I see no problem there. And random Psychic Powers were how it worked when I started in 2nd edition, so I have no problem with that either... Sure, it can be frustrating when you don't draw the specific powers you want... but that's ultimately no different from the frustration of spending a whole game rolling 1s for every 2nd armour save...
From what I've seen so far, really the only part of the new rules I've seen that I don't like is the slowed-down wound allocation for complex units. Which is doubly disappointing since it's the main thing I was hoping they would fix this edition.
This is going to work like magic in Fantasy, you either choose the lore for your spells in general IF you can generate many (3+), or you choose it strictly for its signature if you only generate a few (2-). If you have a 2 powers psichic (basically every one except GK), they gave you 3/4 new spells to choose from and a pool to generate another one at random.
Joey wrote:Are tank shocks still in? God I hope so.
Yes, you automatically hit the unit and the Glass tank breaks down...
insaniak wrote:but that's ultimately no different from the frustration of spending a whole game rolling 1s for every 2nd armour save...
So now you've got both.
And random movement with that kind of variance is pure aggravation. If they wanted random and force us to roll 2d6 every time, they might have as well go for something like 6"+(2") and a Ld check to see if you get the extra 2" when moving. There - random within reason. Not to mention you could actually have different +(X) values for different wargear, like jump packs, instead of having less variance, which makes no sense in relation to flavor.
Actually, make it 6"(1") for infantry. Pass Ld check - assault 6+1. Lose LD check - assault 6-1. Make it 2 for jump infantry, 3 for beasts and bikes.
Did some theory hammer today at the store, final game of 40k so to speak.
Necron Warriors (10-12) slapped my LR Demolisher 3HP removed, 5th edition saw 2 stuns and a shaken.
I feel that Heavy Tanks take a hit (250 points is a lot.) and with Gauss being the new Black, you are looking at a meta shift (duh)
However, Lighter vehicles i think are just as viable but maybe a little expensive.
(3 glances and my vehicle crew/Veterans weren't doing anything anyway in 5th) its just now are they worth the 55 points when instead i can get another squad of dudes??
too many questions and not enough complete information.
Oh I meant tank ram, sorry.
Tank ramming is awesome
Automatically Appended Next Post:
RegulusBlack wrote:
Necron Warriors (10-12) slapped my LR Demolisher 3HP removed, 5th edition saw 2 stuns and a shaken.
3 glancing hits meant a 50% chance to have that demolisher cannon removed altogether.
You guys are viewing glancing hits with rose tinted glasses. On a battle tank/artillery they had a 1/6 chance of basically removing it from play, against trainsports they had a 1/6 chance of immobilising them (Lol immobilise Land Raider turn 1 with lucky missile shot).
Truffle wrote:Yes they are still in see my post a few up.
Love that auto hit and glass tank breaks down
I think the hull points thing should be a per turn they have x amount of hull points.
I would not mind that much if you could group vehicles in Squadrons at will, like in spearhead. As they stand now, anything bellow armor 13 does not make sense bringing it to the table. Vehicle squadrons are too big of an advantage now.
Billagio wrote:I think the new rules are alright for the most part, but im worried about my orks and having to take casualties from the front during shooting even. That with the random charge range is gonna lead to many disappointing assault phases.
1) Your average charge range from from 6" to 7", that's not bad.
2) Overwatch is BS 1. If you charge a full squad of Space marines and they rapid fire you, that's 1.6 dead boyz. From a 10 man squad. It's not that bad.
Wrong. There was no "average" charge range before. It was always 6.
Now, you have a chance to roll a 2, or a 12. Just because 2 dice tend to roll an average of 7 doesn't mean they will all the time.
You must not be good at math.
6 6 6 6 6
What's the average of these numbers? Hint: I already gave you the answer.
BlueRift wrote:Looking at the (possibly illegal) pictures of the rule book linked by primalexile, I am very surprised to see that you perform overwatch shooting BEFORE you roll to see if you get in base contact for charging.
I play Tau and even I will feel bad when I shoot the crap out of someone (relatively) then they don't even get to assault me.
I will not feel bad in the slightest and I hope snap fire includes the use of networked markerlights.
Since the Falchion owners have 3 attacks charging instead of 2, they can potentially take out individually modeled enemies in front of them and then spread into the back rank if all goes well. Wouldnt it affect who the swords can hit on their swings?
But what you said makes sense. Here's 20 Str 4 AP 3 attacks. Allocate away from front to back.
Well I don't know about making sense, it depends on how the rules go (bit surprised they haven't been explained further). If the falchions need to be rolled separately from the swords, that's really an argument for rolling every single dude individually. Since the left most falchion guy could hit with everything, but the right most falchion could miss with everything, which would effect where the wounds go. That of course would be a horrible, slow system, so I don't think it will work that way. But what about this:
Leth wrote:Staves are actually very powerful now. If you can counter move them into contact with your opponents power weapon, or power fist all wounds from that guy have to go through the stave first. In essence you can use the stave to protect the rest of the squad.
Wouldn't that mean that a single model in the defending unit will get multiple wounds allocated to it in one initiative phase? I know under the current rules that is not allowed (except for defending ICs).
Since wounds allocate at each initiative step if there are multiple steps then your stave has a chance to save multiple times, assuming he stays on the front rank when new combatants step up.
IE, he could live through the halberds, the swords, and the powerfist.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Then again, that maybe points to the model by model resolution.
XXXXX
XXSXX
since the stave is base to base with three enemy models, he is equidistant from 3 attackers, and you can put all those wounds on him since it becomes your choice?
Skipping ahead a few pages, since I've been reading instead of catching up, so apologies if this has been addressed already.
I see nothing in the book limiting saves to no better than 2+, nor making 1s automatically fail.
A Necron Overlord with a Sempiternal Weave in a CCB "chariot" (assuming it gets FAQed to be a chariot) has a 1+ save. Yay.
If you see something preventing this other than "sensible play", do speak up.
I don't see anything that says you take the best armour save. So perhaps Lychguard can now opt to 'shield parry' shots that would normally plink off of their armour.
But then I haven't had the book long, so may have just not yet noticed those parts yet.
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Skipping ahead a few pages, since I've been reading instead of catching up, so apologies if this has been addressed already.
I see nothing in the book limiting saves to no better than 2+, nor making 1s automatically fail.
A Necron Overlord with a Sempiternal Weave in a CCB "chariot" (assuming it gets FAQed to be a chariot) has a 1+ save. Yay.
If you see something preventing this other than "sensible play", do speak up.
I don't see anything that says you take the best armour save. So perhaps Lychguard can now opt to 'shield parry' shots that would normally plink off of their armour.
But then I haven't had the book long, so may have just not yet noticed those parts yet.
Insight?
I'd bet everything I own that everything you just posted about is incorrect.
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Skipping ahead a few pages, since I've been reading instead of catching up, so apologies if this has been addressed already.
I see nothing in the book limiting saves to no better than 2+, nor making 1s automatically fail. A Necron Overlord with a Sempiternal Weave in a CCB "chariot" (assuming it gets FAQed to be a chariot) has a 1+ save. Yay. If you see something preventing this other than "sensible play", do speak up.
I don't see anything that says you take the best armour save. So perhaps Lychguard can now opt to 'shield parry' shots that would normally plink off of their armour.
But then I haven't had the book long, so may have just not yet noticed those parts yet.
Insight?
1 will automatically fail, that's not going to change. If it is possible to get a 1+ save the benefit will be only losing your armour save to AP1 weaponry. It's a possibility but I wouldn't count on it.
I see nothing in the book limiting saves to no better than 2+, nor making 1s automatically fail.
That would be a silly oversight on behalf of the designers. I'd assume it would get FAQ'd to either fail on 1's but be safe from AP2, or that saves can't get better than 2+. If it didn't there would be very few ways to kill that guy (AP1 ranged weapons and rending close combat attacks). I don't think there will be any close combat weapons that straight up ignore armour saves after all erratas and such are out.
There's also the outside chance that they really wanted him to have that super save because he loses that save once you pop his chariot and that's not hard at all.
I just realized that Howling Banshees modeled with Power Axes are going to be disgusting on the charge. Now they hit at Str4 I10 on the charge and their weapons are AP2 so they tear through everything. At this point all they need is Doom and it will not end well for the enemy forces!
Why do people keep saying the FAQ's are down? I've checked Austrailia, England, and the US but I still can see the ones updated in January 2012. Am I missing something?
Red Comet wrote:I think Halberds are considered Power Axes from what I remember. So essentially Halberds go down to I1 but then back up to I3...but that's if the rulebook rules take precedence over whatever is written in the codex
No, as Force Weapons with additional special rules, they are just AP 3 weapons using their own special rules, so the Force Halberds will still be I6 and will be AP3, pending the FAQ changing that.
Vladsimpaler wrote:I just realized that Howling Banshees modeled with Power Axes are going to be disgusting on the charge. Now they hit at Str4 I10 on the charge and their weapons are AP2 so they tear through everything. At this point all they need is Doom and it will not end well for the enemy forces!
Huh. Could've sworn they had Power Swords specifically, but checking it just says "Power Weapon".
I wonder how the axe's I1 interacts with the masks.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Damn, nevermind on the save. Page 2 mentions something about armour saves being able to "run from 2+ through 6+ to -".
Not that I didn't expect it would get fixed, but still would've been an amusing note if you had to roll 18 1+'s after being wounded.
xlEternitylx wrote:Ya know, I was looking at the whole flyers hit on a 6+ thing, and I was wondering:
Does it specify whether it is a 6 to hit, or does it say use a BS1?
Both are the same thing essentially, but it makes a big difference for BS modifiers making flyers easier to hit. Think Tau targeting matrix (or whatever the real name is).
Edit: targeting array, that's it.
The wording is "If a model is forced to make Snap Shots rather than shoot normally, then its Ballistic Skill is counted as being 1 for the purpose of those shots"
I think you could make cases each way for BS modifiers either working or not working.
Vladsimpaler wrote:I just realized that Howling Banshees modeled with Power Axes are going to be disgusting on the charge. Now they hit at Str4 I10 on the charge and their weapons are AP2 so they tear through everything. At this point all they need is Doom and it will not end well for the enemy forces!
Huh. Could've sworn they had Power Swords specifically, but checking it just says "Power Weapon".
I wonder how the axe's I1 interacts with the masks.
Oooh, that is true. That's what the FAQs that are coming out are for haha
GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:all you have to do is get jammy and then you kill a LR
What's changed there?
6 to penetrate, 6 to kill, you jammy ******.
I'm talking about those S8 Missiles or the Gauss which always glances on a 6, you'd have to get like 9 or 10 glancing hit's to kill a LR if you're lucky because you need to destroy 4 weapons and immobilise it but now it'll be much easier.
Each Krak Missile has a 2/3*1/6 chance of glancing a Land Raider, that's 0.11. To put it another way, if you want to glance a LR to death, you'd need 4/0.11 shots, or 36 shots. Given 4 guys in a LF squad, that's 9 turns of shooting, or 4.5 turns for two squads, assuming no cover whatsoever.
So you can fire two squads of Long Fangs at a Land Raider and blow it up turn 5...if you want to do that, go nuts. I'd rather blow it up turn 2 with melta before its occupants come out and kill me.
numbers and statistics are all great, but there still is the possibility of wrecking with the first few shots. And we all know that guy who is so lucky to roll those three 6's in a row.
xxvaderxx wrote:Anyone else thinks this edition we will be trading Silver GK for Silver Necron as the dominant color for 40K?
Ever since just after their most recent codex, the Necrons have been in the top tier (although at the bottom of it. 4th place, I think, after SW, GK and IG). From what I've gleaned of 6th Ed., I think that IG will be the strongest codex, simply because they can do everything that everyone else can, and they can usually do it for a cheaper price, and therefore in larger numbers. I think that Necrons and Space Wolves and Grey Knights will all get the next three spots, though I'm not certain in what order. Either way, the top tier of the 4 strongest armies will be the same in July as it was in January.
This is, of course, discounting ally-bolstered armies.
If all IoMMLs are able to take Flakk missiles, then I would expect to see SW Rune Priests (as they are the best psychic defense in 40k now, after Eldrad) with a unit of GH and LFs as one of the most commonly seen allies; right behind Necrons (Overlord + CCB + 5-man Warrior squad in a Night Scythe) and IG (cheap anti-air armour).
And thanks to snap fire and overwatch/defensive fire, I foresee TL being the name of the game in this edition. I expect the GK psyrifleman dread to be a truly evil force to be reckoned with just from its ability to snapfire and then fire regularly, particularly in light of the fact that glances can easily bring down armour, and there is a chance that these dreads will gain skyfire.
Troller wrote:
numbers and statistics are all great, but there still is the possibility of wrecking with the first few shots. And we all know that guy who is so lucky to roll those three 6's in a row.
Really? Given your name, I'll just let you have that one.
In assault models follow the closest to closest rule. If everyone has the same armor save it does not matter. However if it is different then it is handled the same way as shooting. The difference is that since there are a bunch of models in base to base(all equal distance) the defender gets to pick who takes the first wounds, and thus who takes the initial saves. This only applies until the different armor save dies and then the rest of the wounds carry over to everyone else.
Example
Lets say you have Squad 1 of marines in combat with Squad 2
Squad one has a combat shield.
Squad two has a power weapon
Assuming everyone is in base to base and the person gets two power weapon wounds, you could put the first one on the combat shield to try and get any save, if you pass then the next one has to go on him, if he passes that one, now he keeps taking wounds until he fails I believe.
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:I wonder if these rules break Tau Stealth Suits or if the method for rolling spotting is specific enough despite the "as if fighting at night" part.
You really won't know until the FAQ, I imagine it will deal with the situation, personally I expect to see them gain the shrouded USR which gives them +2 to cover saves (for a 5+ cover save in open terrain)
Automatically Appended Next Post: The classification of characteristic modifiers now includes rules that set you to a certain characteristic (e.g. "the model is Strength 7") and in the order of operations clarifies that anything which sets you to a specific value is done after multiplication and addition, so as to override those two modifier types.
Drunkspleen wrote:The classification of characteristic modifiers now includes rules that set you to a certain characteristic (e.g. "the model is Strength 7") and in the order of operations clarifies that anything which sets you to a specific value is done after multiplication and addition, so as to override those two modifier types.
Billagio wrote:I think the new rules are alright for the most part, but im worried about my orks and having to take casualties from the front during shooting even. That with the random charge range is gonna lead to many disappointing assault phases.
1) Your average charge range from from 6" to 7", that's not bad.
2) Overwatch is BS 1. If you charge a full squad of Space marines and they rapid fire you, that's 1.6 dead boyz. From a 10 man squad. It's not that bad.
I was talking more about as I move the boyz across the field. If I have to take from the front row, I will lose a few inches that I might need to get the charge off. If I put in transports It could be better I suppose, but hull points :/ Plus now obscured is 5+ so kff isnt as effective. I guess ill just have to see how it all plays out.
Unsure if this got mentioned in the pages I skipped over, but Defensive Grenades have Stealth as long as they are within 8" of the unit firing at them and haven't gone to ground (in addition to the usual assault use).
Krak, Plasma, and Melta grenades(/bombs) can be used against MCs.
In addition to the bit about throwing them that I believe has already been mentioned.
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Unsure if this got mentioned in the pages I skipped over, but Defensive Grenades have Stealth as long as they are within 8" of the unit firing at them and haven't gone to ground (in addition to the usual assault use).
Krak, Plasma, and Melta grenades(/bombs) can be used against MCs.
In addition to the bit about throwing them that I believe has already been mentioned.
Note: You can't throw Melta, they are like Thermite charges you have to fix them to a vehicle (or a Hive Tyrant's face)
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Unsure if this got mentioned in the pages I skipped over, but Defensive Grenades have Stealth as long as they are within 8" of the unit firing at them and haven't gone to ground (in addition to the usual assault use).
Krak, Plasma, and Melta grenades(/bombs) can be used against MCs.
In addition to the bit about throwing them that I believe has already been mentioned.
Note: You can't throw Melta, they are like Thermite charges you have to fix them to a vehicle (or a Hive Tyrant's face)
Am I missing something--or after skimming it, it looks like you allocate unsaved wounds---not saving throws. So for example, a unique Paladin squad won't do anything in the new set as;
I did 20 wounds, roll your saves
You failed 4 saves, allocate to the closest model until he's dead, then next closest
Two Paladins (closest to the unit) die
That is much quicker than the current version.
That's provided they all have the same armor saving throw, haven't read/seen the mixed armor units yet.
AgeOfEgos wrote:Am I missing something--or after skimming it, it looks like you allocate unsaved wounds---not saving throws. So for example, a unique Paladin squad won't do anything in the new set as;
I did 20 wounds, roll your saves
You failed 4 saves, allocate to the closest model until he's dead, then next closest
Two Paladins (closest to the unit) die
That is much quicker than the current version.
That's provided they all have the same armor saving throw, haven't read/seen the mixed armor units yet.
This is how me and yermom played it yesterday, we thought it was a great addition to speed up gameplay. The only time you need to be careful with doing this is when you have a unit with mixed armor types. But if the max wounds you could take wouldn't touch a model with different armor, then you can easily roll them all at once and just remove as necessary.
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:
Huh. Could've sworn they had Power Swords specifically, but checking it just says "Power Weapon".
I wonder how the axe's I1 interacts with the masks.
Do you get to choose...?
Does anyone have confirmation that Power Weapons can = anything we like?
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:
Huh. Could've sworn they had Power Swords specifically, but checking it just says "Power Weapon".
I wonder how the axe's I1 interacts with the masks.
Do you get to choose...?
Does anyone have confirmation that Power Weapons can = anything we like?
I suspect this'll be touched upon in the FAQs. I sure hope so at least.
Regular power halberds / axes are unwieldly, but under the rules for force weapons the book says force weapons are like regular power weapons with their special rules on top. GK halberds are force weapons with other special rules, so the force weapon entry should control, meaning they should be AP3 +2I Force weapons. They will explain in the FAQ to make sure everyone is on the same page.
That entry says explicitly that force halberds count as force axes.
TedNugent wrote:That entry says explicitly that force halberds count as force axes.
No it doesn't it says "If a model's wargear says it has a Force weapon that has no further special rules, look at the model to tell which type of Force weapon it has: ... if it's an axe or halberd, it's a Force Axe"
Since the Nemesis Force Halberd does indeed have further special rules, it's not covered by this, and is instead covered by the later statement which says
"If a Force weapon has its own unique close combat rules, treat it as an AP 3 Melee weapon with the additional rules and characteristics presented in its entry"
Regular power halberds / axes are unwieldly, but under the rules for force weapons the book says force weapons are like regular power weapons with their special rules on top. GK halberds are force weapons with other special rules, so the force weapon entry should control, meaning they should be AP3 +2I Force weapons. They will explain in the FAQ to make sure everyone is on the same page.
That entry says explicitly that force halberds count as force axes.
They have their own unique rules, thus the "Unusual Force Weapons" rule kicks in. Nemesis ones, anyway. I suppose if you had some SM librarian with a "Force Halberd" it would just be a normal force axe.
Grimgob wrote:Why do people keep saying the FAQ's are down? I've checked Austrailia, England, and the US but I still can see the ones updated in January 2012. Am I missing something?
Yeah, as far as I can tell its still the same FAQ's from January 2012
Where did you read people talking about the new FAQ's?
Grimgob wrote:Why do people keep saying the FAQ's are down? I've checked Austrailia, England, and the US but I still can see the ones updated in January 2012. Am I missing something?
Yeah, as far as I can tell its still the same FAQ's from January 2012
Where did you read people talking about the new FAQ's?
Bell of Lost Souls keep insisting the old ones have been pulled down. They are idiots. The comments on those articles are full of people refuting that claim.
Why you would publish such a thing without taking the minute or so to go to the GWFAQ page and check for yourself is beyond me.
Grimgob wrote:Why do people keep saying the FAQ's are down? I've checked Austrailia, England, and the US but I still can see the ones updated in January 2012. Am I missing something?
Yeah, as far as I can tell its still the same FAQ's from January 2012
Where did you read people talking about the new FAQ's?
Not the new FAQ's, they wont be up till saturday. I just thought I read that the old FAQ's were taken off the website and it was a good sign that the new ones would be up as soon as the new edition came out. I still see the old ones up so I guess its not true.
Grimgob wrote:Why do people keep saying the FAQ's are down? I've checked Austrailia, England, and the US but I still can see the ones updated in January 2012. Am I missing something?
Yeah, as far as I can tell its still the same FAQ's from January 2012
Where did you read people talking about the new FAQ's?
Not the new FAQ's, they wont be up till saturday. I just thought I read that the old FAQ's were taken off the website and it was a good sign that the new ones would be up as soon as the new edition came out. I still see the old ones up so I guess its not true.
Funny, everyone keeps assuming that the FAQs are coming out with the rulebook. The source I hear and trust says that they won't be out until the end of July.
Drunkspleen wrote:The classification of characteristic modifiers now includes rules that set you to a certain characteristic (e.g. "the model is Strength 7") and in the order of operations clarifies that anything which sets you to a specific value is done after multiplication and addition, so as to override those two modifier types.
If my Wraiths had mouths they would smile.
Well, that also clears up any confusion about what effect markerlights will have during snapfire. (the answer is: none)
And my Wraiths do have mouths, and they are smiling.
Drunkspleen wrote:The classification of characteristic modifiers now includes rules that set you to a certain characteristic (e.g. "the model is Strength 7") and in the order of operations clarifies that anything which sets you to a specific value is done after multiplication and addition, so as to override those two modifier types.
If my Wraiths had mouths they would smile.
Well, that also clears up any confusion about what effect markerlights will have during snapfire. (the answer is: none)
And my Wraiths do have mouths, and they are smiling.
I keep forgetting about my poor Wraith Classic.
At least I have them around if I ever want to use 18 at a time...
Grimgob wrote:Why do people keep saying the FAQ's are down? I've checked Austrailia, England, and the US but I still can see the ones updated in January 2012. Am I missing something?
Yeah, as far as I can tell its still the same FAQ's from January 2012
Where did you read people talking about the new FAQ's?
Bell of Lost Souls keep insisting the old ones have been pulled down. They are idiots. The comments on those articles are full of people refuting that claim.
Why you would publish such a thing without taking the minute or so to go to the GWFAQ page and check for yourself is beyond me.
I really do hope the FAQ's will be released around the same time as the rulebook as there are still too many things that need to be cleared up and waiting weeks for an answer will be incident annoying
Thunderfrog wrote:"Okay.. My front rank power sword guy attacks. Who takes the wounds? Okay, now my front ranked falchion guys. Now my stave guys.. Okay, your turn since were at the same initiative... Okay, now to the next initiative step..
Power swords and falchions have the same AP value and same initiative value so shouldn't they be rolled at the same time?
Ah, probably. I hadn't thought of that, and no one takes Falchions anyways. lol. Remember the huge debate on whether or not they gave two extra attacks or one? Anyways, I was thinking it would matter because of this..
FFFFSSSS
XXXXXXXXX
F = Falchion, S = Sword
X = Enemy mooks.
Since the Falchion owners have 3 attacks charging instead of 2, they can potentially take out individually modeled enemies in front of them and then spread into the back rank if all goes well. Wouldnt it affect who the swords can hit on their swings?
But what you said makes sense. Here's 20 Str 4 AP 3 attacks. Allocate away from front to back.
That's not what scares me about that system what scares me is when a warding stave (who is still a MEQ) is in the front rank and can roll individually until he absorbs every F'ing attack or dies. Maybe I am over thinking or missed something but as long as he is in the front with say, 5 lighting claw terminators attacking his squad, what stops him from taking each save until he bites it?
Thunderfrog wrote:"Okay.. My front rank power sword guy attacks. Who takes the wounds? Okay, now my front ranked falchion guys. Now my stave guys.. Okay, your turn since were at the same initiative... Okay, now to the next initiative step..
Power swords and falchions have the same AP value and same initiative value so shouldn't they be rolled at the same time?
Ah, probably. I hadn't thought of that, and no one takes Falchions anyways. lol. Remember the huge debate on whether or not they gave two extra attacks or one? Anyways, I was thinking it would matter because of this..
FFFFSSSS
XXXXXXXXX
F = Falchion, S = Sword
X = Enemy mooks.
Since the Falchion owners have 3 attacks charging instead of 2, they can potentially take out individually modeled enemies in front of them and then spread into the back rank if all goes well. Wouldnt it affect who the swords can hit on their swings?
But what you said makes sense. Here's 20 Str 4 AP 3 attacks. Allocate away from front to back.
That's not what scares me about that system what scares me is when a warding stave (who is still a MEQ) is in the front rank and can roll individually until he absorbs every F'ing attack or dies. Maybe I am over thinking or missed something but as long as he is in the front with say, 5 lighting claw terminators attacking his squad, what stops him from taking each save until he bites it?
From the sound of it, you would assault, the warding staff would get in btb with one terminator. You move the other in btb with other members of the squad.. The ruling saying that wounds are taken on the model in base to base, or on the closest if not in base to base, would mean taht the staff guy can only take up to the number of wounds caused by the guy in base with him, as long as everyone else is in btb or closer to a different model. At least thats my take on it from this thread.
I cannot read 173 posts but i just want to say that i just finished learning most of the rules for 5th ed, and now to find out 6th ed is ocming out i am really bummed out, also the idea of a chaos army having csm, daemons, and orks is the dumbest thing ive ever seen, this 6th ed is crazy, if grey knights werent over powered enough, now youll have people finding the most unbeatable list with GREYKNIGHTS WITH RAILGUNS.. str 10 ap 1.... what a frigin joke, terminators deep striking your face with warriors at their backs, with tau jump HQ... how is this balanced at all....... im quiting warhammer now. awesome
But it says to roll to hit and wound all at once with like weapons, so a unit with all the same power weapon would roll all at once not separate. So the owning player now decides and picks him because hes in the front rank and rolls saves until he croaks, if this is the case then maybe now people will see the value of a warding staff even with it's ap4.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Frecklesonfire wrote:I cannot read 173 posts but i just want to say that i just finished learning most of the rules for 5th ed, and now to find out 6th ed is ocming out i am really bummed out, also the idea of a chaos army having csm, daemons, and orks is the dumbest thing ive ever seen, this 6th ed is crazy, if grey knights werent over powered enough, now youll have people finding the most unbeatable list with GREYKNIGHTS WITH RAILGUNS.. str 10 ap 1.... what a frigin joke, terminators deep striking your face with warriors at their backs, with tau jump HQ... how is this balanced at all....... im quiting warhammer now. awesome
I hope you brought your hard hat because I think your sky is on it's way down
Frecklesonfire wrote:I cannot read 173 posts but i just want to say that i just finished learning most of the rules for 5th ed, and now to find out 6th ed is ocming out i am really bummed out, also the idea of a chaos army having csm, daemons, and orks is the dumbest thing ive ever seen, this 6th ed is crazy, if grey knights werent over powered enough, now youll have people finding the most unbeatable list with GREYKNIGHTS WITH RAILGUNS.. str 10 ap 1.... what a frigin joke, terminators deep striking your face with warriors at their backs, with tau jump HQ... how is this balanced at all....... im quiting warhammer now. awesome
But if everybody can do it, doesn't that make it balanced?
Frecklesonfire wrote:I cannot read 173 posts but i just want to say that i just finished learning most of the rules for 5th ed, and now to find out 6th ed is ocming out i am really bummed out, also the idea of a chaos army having csm, daemons, and orks is the dumbest thing ive ever seen, this 6th ed is crazy, if grey knights werent over powered enough, now youll have people finding the most unbeatable list with GREYKNIGHTS WITH RAILGUNS.. str 10 ap 1.... what a frigin joke, terminators deep striking your face with warriors at their backs, with tau jump HQ... how is this balanced at all....... im quiting warhammer now. awesome
Since you're rage-quitting anyway, how about you send your toys to me?
xxvaderxx wrote:Anyone else thinks this edition we will be trading Silver GK for Silver Necron as the dominant color for 40K?
Ever since just after their most recent codex, the Necrons have been in the top tier (although at the bottom of it. 4th place, I think, after SW, GK and IG). From what I've gleaned of 6th Ed., I think that IG will be the strongest codex, simply because they can do everything that everyone else can, and they can usually do it for a cheaper price, and therefore in larger numbers. I think that Necrons and Space Wolves and Grey Knights will all get the next three spots, though I'm not certain in what order. Either way, the top tier of the 4 strongest armies will be the same in July as it was in January.
This is, of course, discounting ally-bolstered armies.
If all IoMMLs are able to take Flakk missiles, then I would expect to see SW Rune Priests (as they are the best psychic defense in 40k now, after Eldrad) with a unit of GH and LFs as one of the most commonly seen allies; right behind Necrons (Overlord + CCB + 5-man Warrior squad in a Night Scythe) and IG (cheap anti-air armour).
I have to say that the CCB really got rained in in 6th. Still good, definitely took a hit though. It can only perform sweeps in the movement phase, all vehicles cap at 12" in the movement phase with options for further movement. This means they can't hop around the table killing what ever they chose anymore. Best case scenario is set up turn one for turn two (not much different) But now your opponent can react and make sure that 12" isn't enough to clear your hull or unit. Huge... And night fight got hosed IMO, really don't think necrons are going to be in the top four for long personally, at best they are 4.
Frecklesonfire wrote:I cannot read 173 posts but i just want to say that i just finished learning most of the rules for 5th ed, and now to find out 6th ed is ocming out i am really bummed out, also the idea of a chaos army having csm, daemons, and orks is the dumbest thing ive ever seen, this 6th ed is crazy, if grey knights werent over powered enough, now youll have people finding the most unbeatable list with GREYKNIGHTS WITH RAILGUNS.. str 10 ap 1.... what a frigin joke, terminators deep striking your face with warriors at their backs, with tau jump HQ... how is this balanced at all....... im quiting warhammer now. awesome
But if everybody can do it, doesn't that make it balanced?
Potentially. However based on the types of comments I have seen posted here and elsewhere it will facilitate dillholes powergaming...
Game balance is important, but so should be maintaining the spirit and integrity of the setting.
But then maybe GW finally said "f*uck it, nobody reads all this fluff or cares abot it anyways so lets throw all the models in a pile and play whatever we want".
Frecklesonfire wrote:I cannot read 173 posts but i just want to say that i just finished learning most of the rules for 5th ed, and now to find out 6th ed is ocming out i am really bummed out, also the idea of a chaos army having csm, daemons, and orks is the dumbest thing ive ever seen, this 6th ed is crazy, if grey knights werent over powered enough, now youll have people finding the most unbeatable list with GREYKNIGHTS WITH RAILGUNS.. str 10 ap 1.... what a frigin joke, terminators deep striking your face with warriors at their backs, with tau jump HQ... how is this balanced at all....... im quiting warhammer now. awesome
If you don't like it, play 5th with your friends, quit or change games Raging doesn't really help any
Frecklesonfire wrote:I cannot read 173 posts but i just want to say that i just finished learning most of the rules for 5th ed, and now to find out 6th ed is ocming out i am really bummed out, also the idea of a chaos army having csm, daemons, and orks is the dumbest thing ive ever seen, this 6th ed is crazy, if grey knights werent over powered enough, now youll have people finding the most unbeatable list with GREYKNIGHTS WITH RAILGUNS.. str 10 ap 1.... what a frigin joke, terminators deep striking your face with warriors at their backs, with tau jump HQ... how is this balanced at all....... im quiting warhammer now. awesome
But if everybody can do it, doesn't that make it balanced?
Well not everyone is doing it. Everyone has the chance to, Yes. Doesn't mean that they will. I don't think they are needed in such a small game. If it were a mega battle or a super large scale 5k plus sure I don't see a problem.
I do like the possibilities with fluff amries. it does open up alot of options for players to help create a better fluff army. The problem I see with it is its going to be abused( to some extent anyways). I am not a tourney player or a WAAC player either. I tend to play for fluff but I do also like to win( who doesn't?) So I am kind of in the middles as it could be cool to add some Looted stuff back to the Ork army I have. But it is still alittle silly in my eyes.
It is really only a marketing scheme by GW to sell more models. But its a damn good done.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Big shout-out to Milsims in Australia for shipping their books on Friday afternoon so that people who pre-ordered it won't get it by the weekend.
Great job there.
Bummer, I ordered from blackcultist.com.au, first time I ever have, shipped them by end of wednesday and I got my book on thursday, really happy with them.
I'd suggest people check it out, it also seems to be one of the few ways to get cheaper than retail finecast in Australia and the guy running the store who seems to be a good bloke says he will arrange replacements for any bad miscasts.
What I really want to know is that if I haven't moved my Rhino and I disembark my marines, can they assault that turn. I have heard rumors of not being abile to. I need a confirmation. This is pretty big, imo.
Drunkspleen wrote:The classification of characteristic modifiers now includes rules that set you to a certain characteristic (e.g. "the model is Strength 7") and in the order of operations clarifies that anything which sets you to a specific value is done after multiplication and addition, so as to override those two modifier types.
If my Wraiths had mouths they would smile.
Well, that also clears up any confusion about what effect markerlights will have during snapfire. (the answer is: none)
And my Wraiths do have mouths, and they are smiling.
not sure i understand, though it is getting late for me. it's about whip coils, right?
Of all the weird words that seem to be used on this forum since I joined a month ago I think rage-quitting is my favourite.
They should add it as an actual USR!
Anyway all this talk about which builds will be the fiercest and not much talk about which ones will be tactically interesting. I am quite new to 40k and I only found out GK's were supposedly OP because I went to a gaming club in Beijing and 3 out of 6 guys were using them. This kind of behaviour makes me not want to ever play this game.
I actually played my first game (ok i had played 1 or 2 times before 10 years ago) against a Dark Eldar player there who (again I am going to use words i picked up from here) mech spammed. He also (I later found out) was playing with illegal troop choices (just 2x3 warriors) just so he could fill the list with more "cheese". I barely did anything to him but I can hardly believe he took great pride in beating me... or did he?
Do so many people seriously play with the expressed desire to win by letting the army do all the work. What is the point? Do people enjoy winning this way that much? Maybe it shows that the game is more broken as a tactical game than I thought it was.
I personally think its sad that people just buy the cheese armies. I just brought Necrons because I had be given some of the way old ones before so thought i'd be cheaper to just build from there but now everyone says they are OP i would have preferred to go with Nid's or Orks just cause they look fun. Well I guess i could buys some Orks now anyway :-)
Drunkspleen wrote:The classification of characteristic modifiers now includes rules that set you to a certain characteristic (e.g. "the model is Strength 7") and in the order of operations clarifies that anything which sets you to a specific value is done after multiplication and addition, so as to override those two modifier types.
If my Wraiths had mouths they would smile.
Well, that also clears up any confusion about what effect markerlights will have during snapfire. (the answer is: none)
And my Wraiths do have mouths, and they are smiling.
not sure i understand, though it is getting late for me. it's about whip coils, right?
Yeah he is but if they don't have priority for how "Specific Value Increases" and "Specific Value Decreases" interact, then we would still need an FAQ on things like Eldar Banshees and Psychic Powers that increase Initiative to a specific amount
Zanderchief wrote:I personally think its sad that people just buy the cheese armies. I just brought Necrons because I had be given some of the way old ones before so thought i'd be cheaper to just build from there but now everyone says they are OP i would have preferred to go with Nid's or Orks just cause they look fun. Well I guess i could buys some Orks now anyway :-)
So play the army like you like. Just because it has the potential for cheese doesn't mean you're going to use them in an abusive way.
Coyote81 wrote:What I really want to know is that if I haven't moved my Rhino and I disembark my marines, can they assault that turn. I have heard rumors of not being abile to. I need a confirmation. This is pretty big, imo.
That is correct, you cannot declare a charge on any turn where you disembarked from a vehicle (unless it is open topped or otherwise has the assault vehicle USR)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
tetrisphreak wrote:Jet Packs (IE tau) -- Their assault move is now 2d6". Can they re-roll one or both dice like jump packers can?
No they cannot re-roll at all.
Note too that jump pack units only get the re-roll of assault dice and hammer of wrath if they forego using their jump packs in the movement phase to move 12 inches (i.e. Jump Pack Infantry will only be able to move 6 inches and will feel the effects of difficult terrain if they want to have the re-roll). A lot of people seem to be overlooking the fact that you have to choose whether you use your Jump Packs in the movement or assault phase, not both.
Coyote81 wrote:What I really want to know is that if I haven't moved my Rhino and I disembark my marines, can they assault that turn. I have heard rumors of not being abile to. I need a confirmation. This is pretty big, imo.
That is correct, you cannot declare a charge on any turn where you disembarked from a vehicle (unless it is open topped or otherwise has the assault vehicle USR)
Does anyone else think this is a bit giong to far? With it being even easier to take out a Rhino (or transport equivalent w/o assault ramps), do we really need a garunteed free round of shooting against any assault units using those types of transports? I don't have any idea how Banshees will be effective if I get a free round of throwing bullets into them no matter what the eldar player tries to do about it...
Yes playing the army you like... I was just wondering if people like playing "cheese" armies that much. Seems people are trying to at least figure out the combos that do this. In Beijing it seems for sure that GK armies are (or maybe were) very popular a month or so back.
Noir Eternal wrote:Does anyone else think this is a bit giong to far? With it being even easier to take out a Rhino (or transport equivalent w/o assault ramps), do we really need a garunteed free round of shooting against any assault units using those types of transports? I don't have any idea how Banshees will be effective if I get a free round of throwing bullets into them no matter what the eldar player tries to do about it...
I think it probably is a bit too much, I mean, if you let a falcon full of banshees park that close to you without popping it open and mopping the banshees up in your ensuing turn, you deserve to get charged. But it is in keeping with the order of the day and not allowing infiltrators, scouts, or units arriving from reserve to launch an assault in the first turn following those things happening.
Coyote81 wrote:What I really want to know is that if I haven't moved my Rhino and I disembark my marines, can they assault that turn. I have heard rumors of not being abile to. I need a confirmation. This is pretty big, imo.
That is correct, you cannot declare a charge on any turn where you disembarked from a vehicle (unless it is open topped or otherwise has the assault vehicle USR)
This is terrible, Getting to and assaulting shooting armies just became terribly hard.
I think the transport thing is problematic because of how disembarking works.
Can't disembark if it moves over 6"? So if I have a transport full of troops, I need to take a turn to fly it somewhere, a turn to disembark, and -then- I can assault?
Noir Eternal wrote:Does anyone else think this is a bit giong to far? With it being even easier to take out a Rhino (or transport equivalent w/o assault ramps), do we really need a garunteed free round of shooting against any assault units using those types of transports? I don't have any idea how Banshees will be effective if I get a free round of throwing bullets into them no matter what the eldar player tries to do about it...
I think it probably is a bit too much, I mean, if you let a falcon full of banshees park that close to you without popping it open and mopping the banshees up in your ensuing turn, you deserve to get charged. But it is in keeping with the order of the day and not allowing infiltrators, scouts, or units arriving from reserve to launch an assault in the first turn following those things happening.
It feels like hand holding though. I don't often lose games because I am stupid enough to let someone "easily" outflank my army to deal a killing blow on turn 2 or 3. Same with things like Falcon/Rhino rush tactics. The enemy player is sitting on a prayer that your not going to be able to pop those transports in one turn. Now there is no tactics to it at all. I can let the Falcons rush up, twittle my thumbs a bit, and wait for the contents to get out so I can shoot them to death and counter charge.
Hopefully when I get the rulebook on Sat there will be new tactical options that don't include just walking across the table like in fantasy.
Drunkspleen wrote:The classification of characteristic modifiers now includes rules that set you to a certain characteristic (e.g. "the model is Strength 7") and in the order of operations clarifies that anything which sets you to a specific value is done after multiplication and addition, so as to override those two modifier types.
If my Wraiths had mouths they would smile.
Well, that also clears up any confusion about what effect markerlights will have during snapfire. (the answer is: none)
And my Wraiths do have mouths, and they are smiling.
not sure i understand, though it is getting late for me. it's about whip coils, right?
It means that no matter how you've buffed your initiative, the Whip Coils will make it zero. So GK with halberd = Wraiths don't care!
Gw must hate assaults. Wow! Can't assault the turn you come in from reserve, can't assault when you outflank, can't even assault the same turn you disembark even if the vehicle didn't move. What's up with that GW?
I don't understand all the rage over allies. I've played lots of 2v2 or 3v3 battles where people playing on one side or the other had nothing to do at all with what army they brought. It's not a historical re-enactment, so who cares. I like the fact that I can now mix my Orks and Dark Eldar, and I'm going to do it no matter what anybody else thinks. Foooey on rage-quitters!
balsak_da_mighty wrote:Gw must hate assaults. Wow! Can't assault the turn you come in from reserve, can't assault when you outflank, can't even assault the same turn you disembark even if the vehicle didn't move. What's up with that GW?
Seems a lot harsh to me.
We'll see how it works, I'm sure you can assault out of vehicles in certain situations, but they're not as common anymore. Basically 6th punishes you for spamming tin cans; no more "I'm gonna hole up, blow you away, then jump out and kill you"
So I got challenged to fill a double FOC without allies using orks
Heres waht i managed
[spoiler][spoiler]
Created with BattleScribe[/spoiler][/spoiler]
I dont know if this change is a good thing or a bad thing. It seems 2500 is a better time for the double but meh. I wont complain if i can take more lootas.
Now the question is how does a kan wall fair
5+ cover
weaker vehicles
unknown squadron rules
warpcrafter wrote:I don't understand all the rage over allies. I've played lots of 2v2 or 3v3 battles where people playing on one side or the other had nothing to do at all with what army they brought. It's not a historical re-enactment, so who cares. I like the fact that I can now mix my Orks and Dark Eldar, and I'm going to do it no matter what anybody else thinks. Foooey on rage-quitters!
I don't like it because its not need in such a small army, bigger ones sure. Is it going to be abused, I am pretty darn sure it will. And I think that is that main problem with it. I am not sure it will balance things or make it worse. Especially for those people that choose not to do or can't becasue all they have is that one army.
Ascalam wrote:It pretty much puts the final nail in the coffin of WWPDE, if true,
They hinge heavily on being able to assault after coming through the WWP.
I'm going to have to sit down with the new book and my dexes, and carefully figure out what still works, if anything,
My DE will go from blazing up the field in their raiders, firing off some shots and assaulting in true DE style to huddle in the raiders to get at least two turns of shooting off before assaulting the severely weakened enemy squads knowing you'll be lucky to lose one model due to snap fire
Don't really like it to be honest, but I'll be damned if I'll allow GW to make me retire my wych army!
I can understand not assaulting out of a transport that's moved... but not being able to disembark and assault from a transport that hasn't moved? That seems overly harsh.
Ascalam wrote:It pretty much puts the final nail in the coffin of WWPDE, if true,
They hinge heavily on being able to assault after coming through the WWP.
I'm going to have to sit down with the new book and my dexes, and carefully figure out what still works, if anything,
My DE will go from blazing up the field in their raiders, firing off some shots and assaulting in true DE style to huddle in the raiders to get at least two turns of shooting off before assaulting the severely weakened enemy squads knowing you'll be lucky to lose one model due to snap fire
Don't really like it to be honest, but I'll be damned if I'll allow GW to make me retire my wych army!
Yay for adaptive tactics!
Remember the imperials have the same rules of warfare you do too, it will affect their current "show up and win" strategies as well.
Tetris who did you order form that you will hey tour book tomorrow? Doc Brown that list looks sooooo boring to play against, As for the not being able to assault after disembarking? I think that it is more than fair. It is kind of silly that every transport in 5th can do that. Trukks have to be worth it somewhat they now go no faster than rhinos, fire at a whoping +1 bs, have less armor and, are open toped and more likely to not even last 1 hit much less a volley from bolters. On a side note I wonder if having all hull points destroyed counts as wreaked and makes the trukk ramshackle?
H.B.M.C. wrote:I can understand not assaulting out of a transport that's moved... but not being able to disembark and assault from a transport that hasn't moved? That seems overly harsh.
rothrich wrote:Tetris who did you order form that you will hey tour book tomorrow? Doc Brown that list looks sooooo boring to play against, As for the not being able to assault after disembarking? I think that it is more than fair. It is kind of silly that every transport in 5th can do that. Trukks have to be worth it somewhat they now go no faster than rhinos, fire at a whoping +1 bs, have less armor and, are open toped and more likely to not even last 1 hit much less a volley from bolters. On a side note I wonder if having all hull points destroyed counts as wreaked and makes the trukk ramshackle?
3rd Party FLGS gets GW shipments on Fridays. I'm anticipating my book will be on that truck tomorrow.
You know, I feel like GW missed a chance to make each race's tactics more unique.
Vehicles, for instance:
Make the Imperial vehicles tough to hurt. They're all about slapping on thicker plates and the brute force method of handling things. Give them high armour (13 on most non-transports, more 14s than anyone else) and maybe 1 more HP than other races.
Make the Eldar vehicles tough to hit. Fast, jink saves and maneuverability, get trashed when you do manage to get a shot to stick but tough to make it stick in the first place.
Make give the Tau vehicles toys to deal with things. Some sort of decoy launchers or glitter bombs or whatever it us they use, negate the first glance each turn on a 4+ or something.
Make Necron vehicles tough to keep down, needing sustained fire to put them in the ground rather than attrition. Give them It Will Not Die or something similar, letting them regenerate hull points.
Make Ork vehicles dirt cheap, expendable, and with rules that assume they're going to blow up, like Ramshackle.
I realize some of this is represented here and there, but I feel like they could've done so much more with it. Instead it seems like they were afraid of vehicles in 5E and overreacted, to the point that you need to try really hard to justify taking, for instance, Eldar transports; not that they die too easily, I think that's around where it should be, but they just aren't that useful for getting troops to where they can do things in a timely manner, since they have to pause between each step of: move, disembark, assault.
H.B.M.C. wrote:I can understand not assaulting out of a transport that's moved... but not being able to disembark and assault from a transport that hasn't moved? That seems overly harsh.
welcome to 40k 2+ av14 edtion
Take a LR or die to missiles.
Take a LR or be assaulted.
Tale a LR or dont use melta.
Take Termies with powerfists or take plasma
USE THE EXPENSIVE STUFF!!!!
Dont play cheap FNP now amorsave armies
Dont play cover reliant armies
Dont play psykerless armies
BUY MARINES, THE BIG ONES.
No seriously some of this sounds good but im planning on needing allot of AP2 and NO ASSAULT UNITS
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:You know, I feel like GW missed a chance to make each race's tactics more unique.
Vehicles, for instance:
Make the Imperial vehicles tough to hurt. They're all about slapping on thicker plates and the brute force method of handling things. Give them high armour (13 on most non-transports, more 14s than anyone else) and maybe 1 more HP than other races.
Make the Eldar vehicles tough to hit. Fast, jink saves and maneuverability, get trashed when you do manage to get a shot to stick but tough to make it stick in the first place.
Make give the Tau vehicles toys to deal with things. Some sort of decoy launchers or glitter bombs or whatever it us they use, negate the first glance each turn on a 4+ or something.
Make Necron vehicles tough to keep down, needing sustained fire to put them in the ground rather than attrition. Give them It Will Not Die or something similar, letting them regenerate hull points.
Make Ork vehicles dirt cheap, expendable, and with rules that assume they're going to blow up, like Ramshackle.
I realize some of this is represented here and there, but I feel like they could've done so much more with it. Instead it seems like they were afraid of vehicles in 5E and overreacted, to the point that you need to try really hard to justify taking, for instance, Eldar transports; not that they die too easily, I think that's around where it should be, but they just aren't that useful for getting troops to where they can do things in a timely manner, since they have to pause between each step of: move, disembark, assault.
This would be what a competant GW would have already done. Now it requires rewrites entirely.
We all know rhinos are to cheap and too good
even chimeras are way to cheap comparitavely
the worst part is the armies that are most durable on foot have the cheapest vehicles
balsak_da_mighty wrote:Gw must hate assaults. Wow! Can't assault the turn you come in from reserve, can't assault when you outflank, can't even assault the same turn you disembark even if the vehicle didn't move. What's up with that GW?
Seems a lot harsh to me.
It's kind of swinging the pendulum heavily to the other side of the "assault vs. shooting" balance.
In all likelihood codexes will trickle out with special rules that ignore the assault hardships introduced in this edition. Much like most assault themed units could basically ignore pinning checks in 3rd, 4th, and 5th.
If things get too extreme, we might see a mid-edition White Dwarf that changes things up along the lines of the revised vehicle rules in 3rd edition.
The "old guard" of Games Workshop have always felt battles should end in melee, so I doubt a shooting centric metagame will last for too long.
tetrisphreak wrote:No word on Jet Packs re rolling their 2d6 assault move? I guess i'll have to wait until i get my book tomorrow...
Drunkspleen wrote:
tetrisphreak wrote:Jet Packs (IE tau) -- Their assault move is now 2d6". Can they re-roll one or both dice like jump packers can?
No they cannot re-roll at all.
Note too that jump pack units only get the re-roll of assault dice and hammer of wrath if they forego using their jump packs in the movement phase to move 12 inches (i.e. Jump Pack Infantry will only be able to move 6 inches and will feel the effects of difficult terrain if they want to have the re-roll). A lot of people seem to be overlooking the fact that you have to choose whether you use your Jump Packs in the movement or assault phase, not both.
I suppose you could...
Opponent takes first turn. You move Wave Serpent 6", disembark 6", run rerollable d6". Hope to weather the shooting. Next turn move 6", assault rerollable 2d6". For a reach of 18+3d6", all rerollable.
Still seems like a stretch to use non-'assault' vehicles, though. A shame for armies that just don't have those, but that have assault troops that won't survive the walk across the board.
orkcommander wrote:If I want an imp guard infantry squad as an ally for my orks do I have to take it in a platoon or can I buy it by itself?
I would think you would have to buy the whole platoon along with Command, or you could just do a vet sqaud.
I was thinking you could because you can buy them as a separate unit its just that if you play an imp guard army they have to be part of a platoon. Of course you need an HQ with it.
tetrisphreak wrote:No word on Jet Packs re rolling their 2d6 assault move? I guess i'll have to wait until i get my book tomorrow...
Drunkspleen wrote:
tetrisphreak wrote:Jet Packs (IE tau) -- Their assault move is now 2d6". Can they re-roll one or both dice like jump packers can?
No they cannot re-roll at all.
Note too that jump pack units only get the re-roll of assault dice and hammer of wrath if they forego using their jump packs in the movement phase to move 12 inches (i.e. Jump Pack Infantry will only be able to move 6 inches and will feel the effects of difficult terrain if they want to have the re-roll). A lot of people seem to be overlooking the fact that you have to choose whether you use your Jump Packs in the movement or assault phase, not both.
Thanks for the clarification, DrunkSpleen. I was hoping since Jet Packs are a subset of Jumpers in 5th they'd remain so in 6th...
balsak_da_mighty wrote:Gw must hate assaults. Wow! Can't assault the turn you come in from reserve, can't assault when you outflank, can't even assault the same turn you disembark even if the vehicle didn't move. What's up with that GW?
Seems a lot harsh to me.
It's kind of swinging the pendulum heavily to the other side of the "assault vs. shooting" balance.
In all likelihood codexes will trickle out with special rules that ignore the assault hardships introduced in this edition. Much like most assault themed units could basically ignore pinning checks in 3rd, 4th, and 5th.
If things get too extreme, we might see a mid-edition White Dwarf that changes things up along the lines of the revised vehicle rules in 3rd edition.
The "old guard" of Games Workshop have always felt battles should end in melee, so I doubt a shooting centric metagame will last for too long.
So what your saying is they want a CC that is basically one model vs one model? After both armies have shot each other to death you charge in with you 2 models left in each unit. This really resembles 3rd alot, but with more USR.
docbrown wrote:This would be what a competant GW would have already done. Now it requires rewrites entirely.
I know GW considers itself a model company, not a game company.
I know it's easy to look at a painting and say "Pfft, I could do better."
I know I'm probably not seeing all the reasons behind their decisions this edition.
But I still feel like I could've done better.
Makes me wonder how much they listen to their playtesters.
orkcommander wrote:If I want an imp guard infantry squad as an ally for my orks do I have to take it in a platoon or can I buy it by itself?
I would think you would have to buy the whole platoon along with Command, or you could just do a vet sqaud.
I was thinking you could because you can buy them as a separate unit its just that if you play an imp guard army they have to be part of a platoon.
Nope the platoon is bought with 2 infantry squads as well as there command squad. They can then add up to 3 more infantry squads to the platoon. If all you want is 10 guard, then buy Vets with no upgrades. Cheap but you still get the models.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Makes me wonder how much they listen to their playtesters.
tetrisphreak wrote:Thanks for the clarification, DrunkSpleen. I was hoping since Jet Packs are a subset of Jumpers in 5th they'd remain so in 6th...
Not the case anymore, while still having some similarities, they inherit nothing from the Jump Pack rules anymore, and are a stand alone type with their own complete rule set.
I don't see hammer of wrath being all that useful. one attack at I 10 is nice and all but compared to having a 24 inch assault threat (that is a 30 in threat for the orkses y'all) I feel like i is nominal. I guess sphece mharines v sphece mhareines could make it usefull posabally taking out a power weapon or something (seems like a big gamble) but for those of us with what will now be no save... whats the point? I'm just guessing here but the reg ccwap must be 6 cuse why would you ever let an ork have a save. my poor orks there 6 save is now a - save cause i see no situations where a 6 save will ever be of use. Not that it was super useful before but at least you had a chance to save in cc in 5th.
Ascalam wrote:It pretty much puts the final nail in the coffin of WWPDE, if true,
They hinge heavily on being able to assault after coming through the WWP.
I'm going to have to sit down with the new book and my dexes, and carefully figure out what still works, if anything,
My DE will go from blazing up the field in their raiders, firing off some shots and assaulting in true DE style to huddle in the raiders to get at least two turns of shooting off before assaulting the severely weakened enemy squads knowing you'll be lucky to lose one model due to snap fire
Don't really like it to be honest, but I'll be damned if I'll allow GW to make me retire my wych army!
Yay for adaptive tactics!
Remember the imperials have the same rules of warfare you do too, it will affect their current "show up and win" strategies as well.
Stupid Imperials and their sudden ability to run marathons!
For around ten years DE we're all about the lightning attacks, alpha-striking everywhere and generally being a nuisance
The new codex came out and this was reinforced massively
Now, GW obviously decided that Imperials don't have it easy enough as it currently stands, so making everyone as fast as the DE is just a big f**k you to everyone who likes some challenge!
acctually pre realization 6th was coming me and a buddy began making our own game.
it had things like:
purchased buffs and off board items(artilery etc)
unit speed ratings
buying models in bulk and aranging into units as seen fit (within army constrictions)
strength of hit determines vehicle damage
specific aiming
conditional cover
buff centered hq's
d20 morale
propoganda and orders
weather effects
conditional aiming roles (speed size cover etc affect rolls)
roll to hit then defender rolls an armour save that changes based on strength of hit.
on and on
but after allot of what we heard from 6th we felt that 40k would be good enough as it had allot of core things we wanted new.
Frecklesonfire wrote:I cannot read 173 posts but i just want to say that i just finished learning most of the rules for 5th ed, and now to find out 6th ed is ocming out i am really bummed out, also the idea of a chaos army having csm, daemons, and orks is the dumbest thing ive ever seen, this 6th ed is crazy, if grey knights werent over powered enough, now youll have people finding the most unbeatable list with GREYKNIGHTS WITH RAILGUNS.. str 10 ap 1.... what a frigin joke, terminators deep striking your face with warriors at their backs, with tau jump HQ... how is this balanced at all....... im quiting warhammer now. awesome
Since you're rage-quitting anyway, how about you send your toys to me?
I was going to say he'd missed the forums of whatever MMO he'd subscribed to.
Also, those of us who've been playing since the RT days(Well, Space Marine in my case.) thought CSM and Daemons being separate armies and no one getting Bloodaxe mercs was the craziness.
And why would Grey Knights buy broadsides when they can just roll up Crush or Vortex on the Telekinetics table?
H.B.M.C. wrote:Big shout-out to Milsims in Australia for shipping their books on Friday afternoon so that people who pre-ordered it won't get it by the weekend.
Great job there.
Mine was marked as shipped first thing this morning, but yeah, still not getting here today, obviously. Of course, I have no idea when they received their stock, either.
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:You know, I feel like GW missed a chance to make each race's tactics more unique.
Vehicles, for instance:
[SNIP]
I realize some of this is represented here and there, but I feel like they could've done so much more with it. Instead it seems like they were afraid of vehicles in 5E and overreacted, to the point that you need to try really hard to justify taking, for instance, Eldar transports; not that they die too easily, I think that's around where it should be, but they just aren't that useful for getting troops to where they can do things in a timely manner, since they have to pause between each step of: move, disembark,
assault.
If I were writing a set of vehicle rules that's sort of the way I'd go. Oh wait... I did write a set of vehicle rules. Silly me.
In all seriousness though Nightbringer's Chosen, I think you've hit the nail right on the head. I've been disappointed with 40K's vehicle rules since 3rd Ed, let alone the glass-hammers of 4th Ed or the cluster-feth of 5th Ed. I think that 6th, from what we've heard, is a massive improvement (despite Hull Points being a near-deal breaker for me). I just know that they could be so much more, and I like your ideas.
docbrown wrote:acctually pre realization 6th was coming me and a buddy began making our own game.
it had things like:
purchased buffs and off board items(artilery etc)
unit speed ratings
buying models in bulk and aranging into units as seen fit (within army constrictions)
strength of hit determines vehicle damage
specific aiming
conditional cover
buff centered hq's
d20 morale
propoganda and orders
weather effects
conditional aiming roles (speed size cover etc affect rolls)
roll to hit then defender rolls an armour save that changes based on strength of hit.
on and on
but after allot of what we heard from 6th we felt that 40k would be good enough as it had allot of core things we wanted new.
docbrown wrote:acctually pre realization 6th was coming me and a buddy began making our own game.
it had things like:
purchased buffs and off board items(artilery etc)
unit speed ratings
buying models in bulk and aranging into units as seen fit (within army constrictions)
strength of hit determines vehicle damage
specific aiming
conditional cover
buff centered hq's
d20 morale
propoganda and orders
weather effects
conditional aiming roles (speed size cover etc affect rolls)
roll to hit then defender rolls an armour save that changes based on strength of hit.
on and on
but after allot of what we heard from 6th we felt that 40k would be good enough as it had allot of core things we wanted new.
orkcommander wrote:If I want an imp guard infantry squad as an ally for my orks do I have to take it in a platoon or can I buy it by itself?
I would think you would have to buy the whole platoon along with Command, or you could just do a vet sqaud.
I was thinking you could because you can buy them as a separate unit its just that if you play an imp guard army they have to be part of a platoon.
Nope the platoon is bought with 2 infantry squads as well as there command squad. They can then add up to 3 more infantry squads to the platoon. If all you want is 10 guard, then buy Vets with no upgrades. Cheap but you still get the models.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Makes me wonder how much they listen to their playtesters.
balsak_the_mighty wrote: They have playtesters? When did this happens?
=====Quotings not working, this is from Quilava1===== Yes, they are called studio employees. They fight for money and...nope, just money. While they SHOULD have outside players come and beta test, they want to keep it secret so nope. That leaves a bunch of british dudes who's priorities are: 1) make money 2) make the game "cinematic" its a table top game with plastic models GW, theres nothing cinematic about a forrest munching on my marines
Little off topic but what edition do I have to buy to get Simon's T-shirt with the Grey Hunter statline on it? They could make an absolute KILLING selling those for most armies' troops.
So shooting at fliers is at BS1 regardless of modifiers huh? Well then. That sucks, to say the least. I was sort of hoping that between a targeting array and twin linked goodieness, that a 5+ rerollable Str10 AP1 would be my answer to anything up in the air. I guess I'll just have to stick with my pulse-laser spam on the Hornet, and guide the heck out of them. I'm too lazy to do the math, but against an AV12 flier, 12 Str 8 AP 2 guided shots should do something...
Edit: can someone do the math? It dawned on me that I forgot about their 3+ evade or whatever. Now I'm curious as to what all that shooting amounts to.
"If a model is not specifically stated as having a weapon with the Melee type, it is treated as being armed with a single close combat weapon."
but then:
"A pistol can be used as a close combat weapon. If this is done, use the profile given above (CCW profile is above) - the Strength, AP, and special rules of the pistol's Shooting profile are ignored."
It then goes on to talk about two or more Melee weapons giving +1 Attack.
So...wait.
Wraiths have no CCW. So the first bit says they get one.
Then the next bit says that a pistol can be used as one.
Do my Wraiths get an extra attack with Particle Casters now? Or is the pistol enough of a CCW to make them not get the generic CCW?
rothrich wrote:I don't see hammer of wrath being all that useful. one attack at I 10 is nice and all but compared to having a 24 inch assault threat (that is a 30 in threat for the orkses y'all) I feel like i is nominal. I guess sphece mharines v sphece mhareines could make it usefull posabally taking out a power weapon or something (seems like a big gamble) but for those of us with what will now be no save... whats the point? I'm just guessing here but the reg ccwap must be 6 cuse why would you ever let an ork have a save. my poor orks there 6 save is now a - save cause i see no situations where a 6 save will ever be of use. Not that it was super useful before but at least you had a chance to save in cc in 5th.
Most melee weapons are still AP -
Your Orks with their low Initiative arguably benefit more from Hammer of Wrath than Marines do, and marines benefit more than my Dark Eldar Hellions do.
Eternity, Tau Seeker Missiles are resolved at BS5. Is that trumped by the BS1 thing? (not that I'm actually asking you, it's more a question for the purposes of rhetoric)
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Do my Wraiths get an extra attack with Particle Casters now? Or is the pistol enough of a CCW to make them not get the generic CCW?
do you have to give up a models regular attacks to use it? I'm still not sold on H.O.W. I guess play testing will tell the tale. I'm just excited to be able to dust off those stormboys knowing that they are one of the ork's best units now and one of the fastest assault units in the game.
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Eternity, Tau Seeker Missiles are resolved at BS5. Is that trumped by the BS1 thing? (not that I'm actually asking you, it's more a question for the purposes of rhetoric)
Sure but you have to hit with Markers first. Which would fall under the BS1 I would think. So you need the 6 to hit with the Marker then you could throw the Seeker missle and hit on a 2+. But of course this is just me thinking with the rules that I know of right now.
"If a model is not specifically stated as having a weapon with the Melee type, it is treated as being armed with a single close combat weapon."
but then:
"A pistol can be used as a close combat weapon. If this is done, use the profile given above (CCW profile is above) - the Strength, AP, and special rules of the pistol's Shooting profile are ignored."
It then goes on to talk about two or more Melee weapons giving +1 Attack.
So...wait.
Wraiths have no CCW. So the first bit says they get one.
Then the next bit says that a pistol can be used as one.
Do my Wraiths get an extra attack with Particle Casters now? Or is the pistol enough of a CCW to make them not get the generic CCW?
Wow, not having the rulebook I can't give an answer to that but as a Necron player that will be the first think I look up in the rules if someone doesn't provide you an answer.
Would certainly make a reason to taking casters in addition to the Whips though. Still no idea of what those rediculous 15 point Beamers where ever thought up for though
rothrich wrote:do you have to give up a models regular attacks to use it? I'm still not sold on H.O.W. I guess play testing will tell the tale. I'm just excited to be able to dust off those stormboys knowing that they are one of the ork's best units now and one of the fastest assault units in the game.
Just don't use Zagstruk. He won't be able to assault the turn he comes in from reserve. Unless they FAQ that he can of course.
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:p.51:
"If a model is not specifically stated as having a weapon with the Melee type, it is treated as being armed with a single close combat weapon."
but then:
"A pistol can be used as a close combat weapon. If this is done, use the profile given above (CCW profile is above) - the Strength, AP, and special rules of the pistol's Shooting profile are ignored."
It then goes on to talk about two or more Melee weapons giving +1 Attack.
So...wait.
Wraiths have no CCW. So the first bit says they get one.
Then the next bit says that a pistol can be used as one.
Do my Wraiths get an extra attack with Particle Casters now? Or is the pistol enough of a CCW to make them not get the generic CCW?
Wow, obviously not owning the rulebook I have no idea but as a Necron player that will be the one of the first things I look up in the rules if someone doesn't provide you an answer.
Would certainly make a reason to taking casters in addition to the Whips though. Still no idea of what those rediculous 15 point Beamers where ever thought up for though
rothrich wrote:do you have to give up a models regular attacks to use it? I'm still not sold on H.O.W. I guess play testing will tell the tale. I'm just excited to be able to dust off those stormboys knowing that they are one of the ork's best units now and one of the fastest assault units in the game.
The Hammer of Wrath attack is made in addition to your normal attacks at Initiative 10.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Do my Wraiths get an extra attack with Particle Casters now? Or is the pistol enough of a CCW to make them not get the generic CCW?
RAW, probably yes, but people will argue it, I imagine a FAQ will address it though, otherwise tactical marines just got a pretty significant stealth buff into Assault Marines with boltguns.
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Unsure if this got mentioned in the pages I skipped over, but Defensive Grenades have Stealth as long as they are within 8" of the unit firing at them and haven't gone to ground (in addition to the usual assault use).
Krak, Plasma, and Melta grenades(/bombs) can be used against MCs.
In addition to the bit about throwing them that I believe has already been mentioned.
So I state on my turn that the squad is tossing a Defensive grenade, and then on the opponent's turn any unit within 8" firing weapons before (presumably) assaulting treats it as having Stealth?
Or do I have to target a unit that's already within 8" on my turn?
RogueRegault wrote:So I state on my turn that the squad is tossing a Defensive grenade, and then on the opponent's turn any unit within 8" firing weapons before (presumably) assaulting treats it as having Stealth?
Or do I have to target a unit that's already within 8" on my turn?
Neither, if any unit is within 8 inches of the squad they are targetting and that squad has defensive grenades, the target unit will benefit from stealth.
Also, if the unit with the defensive grenades has gone to ground it doesn't work, so no stacking those two cover increasers.
The codex explicitly states that zagstruck can attack after deep striking... No FAQ needed. he circumvented that rule in 5th and unless the FAQ him then I seen o reason that he would not in 6th.
Automatically Appended Next Post: But he is a waste of points anyway when you have a 30 in assault threat to begin with... at the same time 12 in assault range means he may be able to reach more units to assault after ds
The big winner for hammer of wrath is going to be tyranid gargoyles. They are the cheapest unit that can take it, and the largest unit. For about the same # of points 10 assault marines can gain hammer, or 20 decked out FC/poison attack gargoyles with 20 autohits.
"for the duration of the challenge, these two models are considered to be in base contact only with each other"
Mindshackle Scarabs and declaring challenges seem to trigger at the same step in the phase, at the beginning of the phase before blows are struck. I -believe- that if I'm the active player I choose the order of things, though am not positive.
So as long as it's my turn (perhaps even if it's not, stupid timing...), I can take an enemy character into a private room, introduce him to his new best friend the scarab, and then watch him tear himself apart like Rumpelstiltskin?
I dunno, 15 points is pretty steep for that...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Noir Eternal wrote:
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:
Noir Eternal wrote:Still no idea of what those rediculous 15 point Beamers where ever thought up for though
To be fair, at least you can Snap Fire them now.
Does that prevent us from assaulting with our wraiths though? If so I definitely still call useless
Yes, but if you're like 10 inches away and already used your 'jump packs' it might be worth it to just toss out some shots.
Not worth the points, but not completely useless I suppose.
Same with Orikan's. At least he can toss out a shot now and then and maybe it'll exile something.
rothrich wrote:But he is a waste of points anyway when you have a 30 in assault threat to begin with... at the same time 12 in assault range means he may be able to reach more units to assault after ds
I think you are getting a bit ahead of yourself with this 30 inch assault threat...
If you move 12 inches, with the bonus D6 from the Ork rokkit packs, then you aren't getting a re-roll on your assault range, making your already unlikely 12 inch assault even less likely, most of the time you are just going to get shot by overwatch, I'm really not going to feel threatened by being 30 inches away from a storm boyz squad.
With the large number of armies that can ally with Eldar and the increase in significance of psychic powers I'm taking a random guess that runes of warding will be FAQ nerfed down to a much shorter range (probably 12 or 24")
Noir Eternal wrote:the pistols are 6", whats the range of the Beamers, I thought those were only 6" as well
12" on both, actually.
LOL, thats good, I have always thought they were only 6" for some reason.....
Well the pistols are great, but 15 points for a 1/6 chance to hit and then hit a completely random model to take a characterisitc test that it will have at least a 50% chance of passing. Yeah, thats points well spent
xlEternitylx wrote:Ya know, I was looking at the whole flyers hit on a 6+ thing, and I was wondering:
Does it specify whether it is a 6 to hit, or does it say use a BS1?
Both are the same thing essentially, but it makes a big difference for BS modifiers making flyers easier to hit. Think Tau targeting matrix (or whatever the real name is).
Edit: targeting array, that's it.
The wording is "If a model is forced to make Snap Shots rather than shoot normally, then its Ballistic Skill is counted as being 1 for the purpose of those shots"
I think you could make cases each way for BS modifiers either working or not working.
So I'm not sure. Without reading all the rules relevant to both fliers in conjunction with that quote above, it's difficult to say. I now I'm sure as rain going to be argueing that it's at BS5.
Now, if we had the wording on the "to shoot fliers" part, we could maybe clear this up. (hint hint )
Automatically Appended Next Post:
schadenfreude wrote:With the large number of armies that can ally with Eldar and the increase in significance of psychic powers I'm taking a random guess that runes of warding will be FAQ nerfed down to a much shorter range (probably 12 or 24")
If they darned well nerf my RoWarding cause everybody and their dog wants them, I'd rather give up Allies doggonnit. That is honestly one thing that I've treasured so dearly when facing other psychers, cause it's the only "fair" system. Outright cancel a power on a 4+? That's a load. At least with RoWarding you have a chance!!
Wraithlord w/ Flamer x2, ShuriCannon and Wraithsword Wraithlord w/ Flamer x2, ShuriCannon and Wraithsword Wraithlord w/ Flamer x2, ShuriCannon and Wraithsword Wraithlord w/ Flamer x2, ShuriCannon and Wraithsword Wraithlord w/ Flamer x2, Bright Lance and ELM Wraithlord w/ Flamer x2, Bright Lance and ELM
Leaves about 23 points left over @ 2000 w/ double force org.
The 2x Flamer gives 2d3 autohits as snapfire plus the weapon payload of the MC. That's a lot of T8 and T6. Plus wraithguard are MC's, so they gain AP2 and fear, hammer of wrath, move through cover, relentless and smash special rules. True, you couldnt hit a flyer with it very reliably but if you hit it's going to strip a hull point 3+ and a pen on a 5+. Anyways, never said it was a min/max list. And only 38 models! Put one unit up front and give them fortune.
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Hey Tau players, does Overwatch make Vespids actually usable now, or is it not enough, especially with armor that Bolters cut through?
A single shot each at Assault 1? Not really I don't think. Max size is 10 right? That means 10/6 = 1.67 Hits, 1.11 Wounds. One MEQ dies, but they still hit you at near full strength.
Edit: ninja'd by Fetter. Not as "scientifically proven" as mine, but same point
Wasn't sure, hadn't done the math on them and didn't have the codex handy. Had never fought against them, always thought it was a shame they were always left on their planet.
Oh well. Here's hoping for the new codex.
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Hey Tau players, does Overwatch make Vespids actually usable now, or is it not enough, especially with armor that Bolters cut through?
HA
i laughed good their
no they arent
they cannot do anything other then hurt 1/2 marines
they are terrbile in assault
thy die
there expensive even for tau
and the compete with the one unit that can make them even hit.
If you want vespid to be good make neron blasters templates
THAT would fix them.
xlEternitylx wrote:So I'm not sure. Without reading all the rules relevant to both fliers in conjunction with that quote above, it's difficult to say. I now I'm sure as rain going to be argueing that it's at BS5.
Now, if we had the wording on the "to shoot fliers" part, we could maybe clear this up. (hint hint )
The Flyer rules make no difference, but anyway they just say "Shots resolved at a Zooming Flyer can only be resolved as Snap Shots"
Seeker Missiles IMO have a stronger case, since snap shot treats the models BS as a certain number, whereas Seeker Missiles just tell you to resolve the attacks at a certain assumed BS.
I think most modifiers like the targetting array would however be overridden.
Still reading through the Flyer rules and trying to piece things together from various parts of my book.
Is this correct?:
So, I zoom onto the board with my Doom Scythe. It goes 36".
I can fire both of my weapons.
I come under fire. I can Evade for a 5+ cover, but then can only Snap Fire next turn, and only the Tesla Destructor, since the Death Ray doesn't use BS.
Had I, the turn I zoomed on, moved Flat Out, it'd be a 4+ cover, but would I have been able to shoot at all? Only Snap Shoot?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
TheRedDevil wrote: Wait, looking over those pictures, I'm failling to see any restrictions on assaulting after running. Is it on another page not shown, or am I blind?
Perhaps I'm going blind, it's late, whatever excuse you want to buy, but where does it say that Seeker Missiles use a set BS? I can't find that under it's entry or in an FAQ.
Either way, here's banking on modifiers counting (and to heck freezing over).
(Oh, and irrespective of the outcome of this^^, I;m still hoping one not as lazy as I can work out the math on 12 Str 8 AP 2 shots at BS1 to see if it hurts a flier. Thanks in advance lol)
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Still reading through the Flyer rules and trying to piece things together from various parts of my book.
Is this correct?:
So, I zoom onto the board with my Doom Scythe. It goes 36".
I can fire both of my weapons.
I come under fire. I can Evade for a 5+ cover, but then can only Snap Fire next turn, and only the Tesla Destructor, since the Death Ray doesn't use BS.
Had I, the turn I zoomed on, moved Flat Out, it'd be a 4+ cover, but would I have been able to shoot at all? Only Snap Shoot?
Good catch on the Death Ray not being firable by Snap Shot, I had overlooked that.
Correct, if you had gone Flat out it would be 4+, but as Flat out is done instead of shooting you could not have even fired Snap Shots.
Am I missing something, or can Lootas overwatch?
Aside from the beautifully orky image of firing missiles into the faces of enemies like 3" away from you, that seems like it'll make them a lot more assault resistant.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
xlEternitylx wrote:Perhaps I'm going blind, it's late, whatever excuse you want to buy, but where does it say that Seeker Missiles use a set BS?
Entry for Markerlights.
Man, that book is laid out terribly.
xlEternitylx wrote:Perhaps I'm going blind, it's late, whatever excuse you want to buy, but where does it say that Seeker Missiles use a set BS? I can't find that under it's entry or in an FAQ.
Either way, here's banking on modifiers counting (and to heck freezing over).
(Oh, and irrespective of the outcome of this^^, I;m still hoping one not as lazy as I can work out the math on 12 Str 8 AP 2 shots at BS1 to see if it hurts a flier. Thanks in advance lol)
It's in the Markerlight rules:
"... fire a single seeker missile at the marked unit. This shooting is resolved normally in all regards at an assumed Ballistic Skill of 5."
xlEternitylx wrote:work out the math on 12 Str 8 AP 2 shots at BS1 to see if it hurts a flier.
2 of them hit. 1 of those penetrates. 1/3 chance of crashing it. Less chance if it takes evasive maneuvers, but then it sucks at shooting you next turn.
"A Zooming (i.e. not Hovering) Flyer can never move less than 18"."
"Passengers cannot disembark a transport if it moves over 6"." (paraphrased)
So...there is no scenario in which a Night Scythe's occupants can be deployed, aside from it crashing and them going back into Reserve.
Thanks, GW. Love you.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Is it too late to hope for an Edition x.5 update like Dark Eldar got before the most recent book? It seems my codex has more than a few issues.
I hope your just missing something because that makes no sense at all and I would be extremely suprised if GW missed something so obvious. Even for GW that would be extremely stupid to miss ruleswise
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:"Supersonic Flyers cannot enter Hover mode."
"A Zooming (i.e. not Hovering) Flyer can never move less than 18"."
"Passengers cannot disembark a transport if it moves over 6"." (paraphrased)
So...there is no scenario in which a Night Scythe's occupants can be deployed, aside from it crashing and them going back into Reserve.
Thanks, GW. Love you.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Is it too late to hope for an Edition x.5 update like Dark Eldar got before the most recent book? It seems my codex has more than a few issues.
If this sticks then those Necron spammy all flyers lists suddenly go out the window eh?
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:I suppose you could...
Opponent takes first turn. You move Wave Serpent 6", disembark 6", run rerollable d6". Hope to weather the shooting. Next turn move 6", assault rerollable 2d6". For a reach of 18+3d6", all rerollable.
Still seems like a stretch to use non-'assault' vehicles, though. A shame for armies that just don't have those, but that have assault troops that won't survive the walk across the board.
With something like a Rhino you can do even better:
Move 6" --> Disembark 6" --> Flat Out 6" --> Run D6" and take cover behind the Rhino.
Edit: unless you can't move Flat Out after unloading a squad
Quick thing before I go back to work. After reading exactly how taking armor saves on units works from shooting. What stops me from putting a tough character like Captain Sicarius leading a unit on foot and walking them across the table? You have to kill him first before anyone else takes wounds. 2+ saves FnP 4++ 3wounds. He could absorb a lot of fire before falling and allowing my unit to move across the table unharmed.
With this is mind, have characters become the meat shields of 6th ed? Discuss?
Coyote81 wrote:Quick thing before I go back to work. After reading exactly how taking armor saves on units works from shooting. What stops me from putting a tough character like Captain Sicarius leading a unit on foot and walking them across the table? You have to kill him first before anyone else takes wounds. 2+ saves FnP 4++ 3wounds. He could absorb a lot of fire before falling and allowing my unit to move across the table unharmed.
With this is mind, have characters become the meat shields of 6th ed? Discuss?
Why is your opponent not slightly maneuvering to the side to shoot around Cato?
Oh, or is this your strategy against bad players?
I hope your just missing something because that makes no sense at all and I would be extremely suprised if GW missed something so obvious. Even for GW that would be extremely stupid to miss ruleswise
Maybe ya'all missed the part about flyers entering hover mode to move like normal skimmers. It's been known for days now.
Coyote81 wrote:Quick thing before I go back to work. After reading exactly how taking armor saves on units works from shooting. What stops me from putting a tough character like Captain Sicarius leading a unit on foot and walking them across the table? You have to kill him first before anyone else takes wounds. 2+ saves FnP 4++ 3wounds. He could absorb a lot of fire before falling and allowing my unit to move across the table unharmed.
With this is mind, have characters become the meat shields of 6th ed? Discuss?
I think certainly you will see this happening a bit, a particularly tough IC can take a lot of punishment, and even when they eventually fail their saves and/or FNP you can just roll a 2+ to throw it off onto some schmuck in the unit, but he can't be the front guy everywhere, good maneuvering will let you get stuck into the more fragile squad behind him.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Irdiumstern wrote:Maybe ya'all missed the part about flyers entering hover mode to move like normal skimmers. It's been known for days now.
Maybe Ya'all missed the part where flyers have to specifically have the Hover type to be able to do so, and the Night Scythe does not.
I hope your just missing something because that makes no sense at all and I would be extremely suprised if GW missed something so obvious. Even for GW that would be extremely stupid to miss ruleswise
Maybe ya'all missed the part about flyers entering hover mode to move like normal skimmers. It's been known for days now.
That's a special rule not a given attribute of flyers.
I STILL HAVE YET to see anyone with a book explain what gauss weapons will do in 6e. The only thing I have seen is those with rumors, and I have read the first 20 pagus and the last 80. There isn't anything from people who had the book. Somebody with the book please answer, its been asked over 20 times.
So how, exactly, do your psykers get access to the powers in the book?
Do you have to 'trade' in your codex powers? Can you trade in some but not all? How many BRB powers do you get in return?
Also, if you roll and don't like your BRB power; can you then decide to take the Primary power?
I STILL HAVE YET to see anyone with a book explain what gauss weapons will do in 6e. The only thing I have seen is those with rumors, and I have read the first 20 pagus and the last 80. There isn't anything from people who had the book. Somebody with the book please answer, its been asked over 20 times.
They do what they do in the necron codex, glance on a 6.
I STILL HAVE YET to see anyone with a book explain what gauss weapons will do in 6e. The only thing I have seen is those with rumors, and I have read the first 20 pagus and the last 80. There isn't anything from people who had the book. Somebody with the book please answer, its been asked over 20 times.
They do what they do in the necron codex, glance on a 6.
I STILL HAVE YET to see anyone with a book explain what gauss weapons will do in 6e. The only thing I have seen is those with rumors, and I have read the first 20 pagus and the last 80. There isn't anything from people who had the book. Somebody with the book please answer, its been asked over 20 times.
They do what they do in the necron codex, glance on a 6.
did somebody with a book confirm this?
I've had a quick flick through the book, if you still dont believe me, pm someone you who know has the book and ask them.
As a side note there is a pistol rule called gunslinger that lets a model with two pistols fire both of them in the same shooting phase
I STILL HAVE YET to see anyone with a book explain what gauss weapons will do in 6e. The only thing I have seen is those with rumors, and I have read the first 20 pagus and the last 80. There isn't anything from people who had the book. Somebody with the book please answer, its been asked over 20 times.
They do what they do in the necron codex, glance on a 6.
did somebody with a book confirm this?
All the rule book summary on weapons say is that they ahve the gauss special rule, that rule isnt coverd anywhere else in the rulebook therefore is is the codex rule IE glance on 6 to wound that applies
coredump wrote:So how, exactly, do your psykers get access to the powers in the book?
Do you have to 'trade' in your codex powers? Can you trade in some but not all? How many BRB powers do you get in return?
Also, if you roll and don't like your BRB power; can you then decide to take the Primary power?
Thank you
you avhe as many phycic powers as you can buy in your codex you can exchange any of these powers unless specified otherwise against one from the rulebook.chose a allowed dicipline roll a d6 if you like the power keep it otherwise pick the primaris power of the dicipline continou untill you are happy
xlEternitylx wrote:
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:"Supersonic Flyers cannot enter Hover mode."
"A Zooming (i.e. not Hovering) Flyer can never move less than 18"."
"Passengers cannot disembark a transport if it moves over 6"." (paraphrased)
So...there is no scenario in which a Night Scythe's occupants can be deployed, aside from it crashing and them going back into Reserve.
Thanks, GW. Love you.
Well, there's always keeping them out of the transport to start with, I suppose.
Well you can disembark BEFORE! the flyer moves for example, there is no rule disallowing a squad from disembarking from a flyer, it evens say in the rules that a flyers accses point is the base.
so yes you can disembark so long as the flyer hasnt moved, after the disembark is done then the flyer must move 18" or crash.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And yes i have a copy of the rule book, i ahve to demo the new game tommorrow so is hard core studying it as i write this
coredump wrote:Could you double check that? A lot of other sources were saying that you can only disembark if the flyer is in Hover mode; not Zoom mode.
Thx for the powers info...
in the flyer rules page 80-81 there are exactly one mention of transports ie if a zooming flyers crashes all models take a s10 noarmour save hit all other rules are therefore the normal transport rules
Normal disembarking rules p79
are:
unit must starts its movement phase embarked, on the vehicle and can disembark either before or after the transport has moves so long as it hasnt moved more than 6"
if the trasnport hasnt moved when you disembark it can thereafter move normal( but cannot tankshock or ram the turn a unit disembark from it)
Transports on flying base count the base as access point
models disembarking must end its move wholly within 6" from transport.
must end in coherency
So yes you can disembark from a flyer so long as it hasnt moved yet.
BTW important to remember you can NEVER! assult after disembarking from a vehicles unless it is a assultvehicle, (all opentopped are assult vehicles)
Thunderfrog wrote:Whoah. We had people with the book earlier saying that you COULD move vehicle 6, disembark, move 6, assault 2d6.
That was wrong?
I don't know, keep in mind Tunih has never posted before now (3 posts total in the last 5 minutes only) and hasn't supplied any pics so ?troll? I don't know, I'm not accusing I am just stating.
I STILL HAVE YET to see anyone with a book explain what gauss weapons will do in 6e. The only thing I have seen is those with rumors, and I have read the first 20 pagus and the last 80. There isn't anything from people who had the book. Somebody with the book please answer, its been asked over 20 times.
I fail to see whats confusing the weapon appendix lists them as gauss but the guass rules aren't in the 6th ed BRB the gauss effect as described in the codex is as written 100% compatible with 6th ed rules.
Thunderfrog wrote:Whoah. We had people with the book earlier saying that you COULD move vehicle 6, disembark, move 6, assault 2d6.
That was wrong?
In short yes direct quete
p 79 Disembarking restrictions after disembarking models can shoot, counting as haveing moved or choose to run in the subsequent shooting phase, but CANNOT declare a charge in the subsequent Assult phase.
Exeption p33 Assult vehicle passengers disembarking from Acces points on a vehicle with this special rule can charge on the tunr they do so even on a turn that the vehicle was destroyed ( if by some miracle the enemy bags your transport during your turn)
H.B.M.C. wrote:I can understand not assaulting out of a transport that's moved... but not being able to disembark and assault from a transport that hasn't moved? That seems overly harsh.
Oh by the Dark Gods hairy balls, please tell me its an error or a misunderstanding...
No it can't be...
My WE can't assault anymore after getting out the rhino?... F*** You GW, just go F*** yourselfs...
Yeah thats the way its looking right now. the next few weeks will tell us whether or not the assault nerf to vehicles takes them out of most lists forever or not..
What I don't get now is that if I move my Rhino up and then my opponent destroys it, can i then assault in my next assault phase? If so that seems incredibly backasswards to hope that your opponent blows up your transports so that you don't have to waste a 2nd turn disembarking from them
Yeah thats the way its looking right now. the next few weeks will tell us whether or not the assault nerf to vehicles takes them out of most lists forever or not..
What I don't get now is that if I move my Rhino up and then my opponent destroys it, can i then assault in my next assault phase? If so that seems incredibly backasswards to hope that your opponent blows up your transports so that you don't have to waste a 2nd turn disembarking from them
Pretty much so long as you make your pinning test, with the cavat i might have missed some line somewhere
Well use opentopped or landraiders those you still can assult from.
¨
it is worth noticing also that vehicles no longer contest objectives.
Well I will hold the swearing until I get a few games in and get a complete picture of how the game mechanics work together. Of course I would encourage you to at least give it a chance.
But yeah, if I have to bait my transports to be destroyed so that I can assault in my next turn. The game will go from this supposedly cinematic feel GW wants to just silly tactics for me
My biggest issue witht the changes to assaults out of vehicles is that at this point it looks like we have one of those ridiculous situations where you can potentially aid your opponent by popping one of their transports because as long as you pass the pinning test you will be able to assault next turn............
Slayer le boucher wrote:Ok...now we know it...GW hates CC army's...
First the stupid Overwatch rule, but i could get on with it, then the random assault, but i though Ok..., but now this?...
Sorry for the curse, but really thats it for me...
Whatcha play? I've been waiting for ebay to spike with army deals, as I'm looking to get INTO 40k with 6th. I played about 30 games of 5th total, since I only started in 2010. I got bored because I really really hated Rhino/Razor spam. This edition sounds like a godsend lol.
Btw, very creative string of curses... just one thing.. how often are families of cannibals rappers? I figure most cannibals are crazy hill people and I just don't see rap as their music of choice.
Btw, very creative string of curses... just one thing.. how often are families of cannibals rappers? I figure most cannibals are crazy hill people and I just don't see rap as their music of choice.
Dude's from Belgium, give him a break on the misspelling...
Yeah thats what I am seeing here to. Unless there is some special tactical rule wisdom in the book thats been missed. I find it completely stupid/unrealistic that its easy to charge out of a vehicle that you were inside after its been hit with a missile then just walking out the door.
Game wise its silly and fluff wise its just plain stupid
Yeah thats the way its looking right now. the next few weeks will tell us whether or not the assault nerf to vehicles takes them out of most lists forever or not..
What I don't get now is that if I move my Rhino up and then my opponent destroys it, can i then assault in my next assault phase? If so that seems incredibly backasswards to hope that your opponent blows up your transports so that you don't have to waste a 2nd turn disembarking from them
Pretty much so long as you make your pinning test, with the cavat i might have missed some line somewhere
Well use opentopped or landraiders those you still can assult from.
¨
it is worth noticing also that vehicles no longer contest objectives.[b] back in a few hours need toplay a game
What about units embarked in a transport. Can they contest or do they have to get out? Also, do you think the GK's and their GKGM's can still make their vehicles scoring? Surely so, because it's pretty specific in the codex.
Noir Eternal wrote:Well I will hold the swearing until I get a few games in and get a complete picture of how the game mechanics work together. Of course I would encourage you to at least give it a chance.
But yeah, if I have to bate my transports to be destroyed so that I can assault in my next turn. The game will go from this supposedly cinematic feel GW wants to just silly tactics for me
"So, I cant help but notice you moved up your Wave Serpent then spun it's ass around to face my lascannons.."
"OH NO. Horrible mistake on my part. No need to let me take it back. Damn the luck. I guess you'll be popping that thing this turn right?"
"What's in it?"
"Just my Seer Council and Yriel, nothing big. So should I just go ahead and pull it off the board or are you going to waste time rolling to shoot it with your last shots of the turn?"
"No way pal. Let them walk on out on their own. I'll shoot something else."
Yeah thats the way its looking right now. the next few weeks will tell us whether or not the assault nerf to vehicles takes them out of most lists forever or not..
What I don't get now is that if I move my Rhino up and then my opponent destroys it, can i then assault in my next assault phase? If so that seems incredibly backasswards to hope that your opponent blows up your transports so that you don't have to waste a 2nd turn disembarking from them
Pretty much so long as you make your pinning test, with the cavat i might have missed some line somewhere
Well use opentopped or landraiders those you still can assult from.
¨
it is worth noticing also that vehicles no longer contest objectives.[b] back in a few hours need toplay a game
What about units embarked in a transport. Can they contest or do they have to get out? Also, do you think the GK's and their GKGM's can still make their vehicles scoring? Surely so, because it's pretty specific in the codex.
units in vehicles cannot claim objectives.
all troops are scoring unless they are vehicles or are embarked in a vehicle.
but if you can make a unit/modell scoring it can still claim objective and contest a objective, there are 21 missions where bhicles can become scoring in the rule book.
for denial of scoring unless the vehicle is scoring it can never deny a scoring units its objective, same if its a scoring unit in a vehicle
Btw, very creative string of curses... just one thing.. how often are families of cannibals rappers? I figure most cannibals are crazy hill people and I just don't see rap as their music of choice.
Dude's from Belgium, give him a break on the misspelling...
Also, he plays Khorne berserkers.
Yikes. I can understand that being a deal breaker. I'd hold onto them though. they do have a new book around the corner.
FYI, I wasnt on him about his spelling really, I just thought how it read was funny.
Thunderfrog wrote:Yikes. I can understand that being a deal breaker. I'd hold onto them though. they do have a new book around the corner.
FYI, I wasnt on him about his spelling really, I just thought how it read was funny.
I am really getting the feeling that this is going to be a hot topic come saturday for many players at my store. Most obviously Eldar players with no options and many Marine players that don't want to be forced to spam Land Raiders and/or Ravens
tunih123 wrote:There are 21 missions where vehicles can become scoring in the rule book.
21 missions! And those are just the ones where vehicles become scoring!
Yay for variety!
6 missions in the new rulebook with 2 of those having vehicles as scoring units - heavy support in one, fast attack in another. transports still wont count unless they are bought from those sections
coredump wrote:Could you double check that? A lot of other sources were saying that you can only disembark if the flyer is in Hover mode; not Zoom mode.
Thx for the powers info...
in the flyer rules page 80-81 there are exactly one mention of transports ie if a zooming flyers crashes all models take a s10 noarmour save hit all other rules are therefore the normal transport rules
Normal disembarking rules p79
are:
unit must starts its movement phase embarked, on the vehicle and can disembark either before or after the transport has moves so long as it hasnt moved more than 6"
if the trasnport hasnt moved when you disembark it can thereafter move normal( but cannot tankshock or ram the turn a unit disembark from it)
Transports on flying base count the base as access point
models disembarking must end its move wholly within 6" from transport.
must end in coherency
So yes you can disembark from a flyer so long as it hasnt moved yet.
BTW important to remember you can NEVER! assult after disembarking from a vehicles unless it is a assultvehicle, (all opentopped are assult vehicles)
This is incorrect, you cannot do so.
The Flyer rules say "models cannot embark upon or disembark from a zooming flyer" and additionally "Flyers can usually only make a special kind of move called a Zoom, some can also Hover, Zooming...."
So unless you elect to hover following the hover rules, if you have a flyer you are Zooming, whether or not you have already moved the flyer has no bearing on the matter.
tunih123 wrote:There are 21 missions where vehicles can become scoring in the rule book.
21 missions! And those are just the ones where vehicles become scoring!
Yay for variety!
6 missions in the new rulebook with 2 of those having vehicles as scoring units - heavy support in one, fast attack in another. transports still wont count unless they are bought from those sections
DarkStarSabre wrote:See Ogre Butchers with Ironfists.
They said that was an oversight?
But left it just as it was because it wouldn't be fair for all those people who suddenly converted their butchers to have ironfists in the month after that army book was released. Then you have the back and forth nature of Tyranids and their FAQs. I really don't expect much from GW and common sense.
If you can really charge out of an exploded transport I don't expect any common sense in this new edition. Well, when compared that you can't charge out of one unless it gets wrecked/exploded.
Noir Eternal wrote:If you can really charge out of an exploded transport I don't expect any common sense in this new edition. Well, when compared that you can't charge out of one unless it gets wrecked/exploded.
Then what would you expect? The vehicle was destroyed on your opponent's turn; on your turn it's effectively not there anymore, so why would it be any different than what we've been playing in 5th unless I'm missing something?
Jidmah wrote:Would anyone with a rulebook please confirm whether you can charge on the turn you arrive from reserves?
No, no matter how many times you ask the same question.
Yeah people are having a real hard time with this one.......no the chances of you being able to assault with a unit without it being potentially subjected to enemy fire (and no not overwatch you will suffer that in addition) will be entirely dependant upon battlefield factors such as terrain and positioning fo said unit and your opponents. "Alpha" charging is going to be very uncommon.
ThirdUltra wrote:
Noir Eternal wrote:If you can really charge out of an exploded transport I don't expect any common sense in this new edition. Well, when compared that you can't charge out of one unless it gets wrecked/exploded.
Then what would you expect? The vehicle was destroyed on your opponent's turn; on your turn it's effectively not there anymore, so why would it be any different than what we've been playing in 5th unless I'm missing something?
What your missing is in 5th it makes no difference, in 6th we are essentially saying that if you drive your car to the end of the street then stop you will be able to get out next turn but not charge I guess the process of getting out is too difficult. But if while your sitting there waiting to get out I blow your car up your somehow more prepared to charge me....No this makes no sense from a realism perspective but far worse IMO presents the foolish situation where I'm better off not shooting at the trukk that just zoomed up to me because if i do the orks on board are more dangerous.....
Noir Eternal wrote:If you can really charge out of an exploded transport I don't expect any common sense in this new edition. Well, when compared that you can't charge out of one unless it gets wrecked/exploded.
You can't the rule forbids them from charging in "their subsequent assault phase" in the case that your transport died in your opponent's turn, your unit's subsequent assault phase is the one in your turn following your opponents.
Well that would be different then what others were saying.
If you still can't charge if your transport gets wrecked/expoded, then yeah thats fine becuase it doesn't feel like your getting extra penalized for your transports surviving.
I was mearly going off what others have said though so far.
Again, I will get to find out for sure on sat
Edit -
@Karl
In the case of your Orks that wouldn't matter anyways becuase Open-Topped has assault ramps
This is for Transports that do not have them, your rhinos and eldar transports for example
Noir Eternal wrote:If you can really charge out of an exploded transport I don't expect any common sense in this new edition. Well, when compared that you can't charge out of one unless it gets wrecked/exploded.
You can't the rule forbids them from charging in "their subsequent assault phase" in the case that your transport died in your opponent's turn, your unit's subsequent assault phase is the one in your turn following your opponents.
Cool that's much better I saw something along those lines but the wording was poor like you can't assault on the TURN your transport is wrecked which is very different.
coredump wrote:Could you double check that? A lot of other sources were saying that you can only disembark if the flyer is in Hover mode; not Zoom mode.
Thx for the powers info...
in the flyer rules page 80-81 there are exactly one mention of transports ie if a zooming flyers crashes all models take a s10 noarmour save hit all other rules are therefore the normal transport rules
Normal disembarking rules p79 are: unit must starts its movement phase embarked, on the vehicle and can disembark either before or after the transport has moves so long as it hasnt moved more than 6" if the trasnport hasnt moved when you disembark it can thereafter move normal( but cannot tankshock or ram the turn a unit disembark from it) Transports on flying base count the base as access point models disembarking must end its move wholly within 6" from transport. must end in coherency
So yes you can disembark from a flyer so long as it hasnt moved yet.
BTW important to remember you can NEVER! assult after disembarking from a vehicles unless it is a assultvehicle, (all opentopped are assult vehicles)
This is incorrect, you cannot do so.
The Flyer rules say "models cannot embark upon or disembark from a zooming flyer" and additionally "Flyers can usually only make a special kind of move called a Zoom, some can also Hover, Zooming...."
So unless you elect to hover following the hover rules, if you have a flyer you are Zooming, whether or not you have already moved the flyer has no bearing on the matter.
Maybe a "zooming flyer" is a flyer that has zoomed?
So you can disembark before you make your zooming move?
That is how I would read it and that would still make sense.
Just seems to me that a "zooming flier" is a different animal than a "flyer with the Zoom move". Maybe I am just turning into a rules lawyer here...
What your missing is in 5th it makes no difference, in 6th we are essentially saying that if you drive your car to the end of the street then stop you will be able to get out next turn but not charge I guess the process of getting out is too difficult. But if while your sitting there waiting to get out I blow your car up your somehow more prepared to charge me....No this makes no sense from a realism perspective but far worse IMO presents the foolish situation where I'm better off not shooting at the trukk that just zoomed up to me because if i do the orks on board are more dangerous.....
You misunderstood my answer; how is it different in 5th when your transport was destroyed during your opponent's turn, and then in your turn you assaulted?
The vehicle is gone, destroyed, therefore it appears not to be so limiting when trying to disembark and charge something when it's in pieces all around you. This was no different in 5th. You can't charge out of something that isn't there.
While I agree that in 6th the whole "you now cannot disembark and charge when the vehicle has not moved" rule kind of absurd and limiting, I find it odd that people are having a problem with the destroyed part of the equation.
In 3rd, one of the things i dreaded was trying to prevent orks, especially kult of speed, units from assaulting my IG lines. They would simply go flat-out, right up to my lines, begging me to destroy the transports to allow them to assault me. In 4th, they enacted the entangled rule to prevent this, but as we all know 4th had other issues besides this.
My point being, charging out of a wreck appears to be no different now than it was prior.....
Drunkspleen wrote:You can't the rule forbids them from charging in "their subsequent assault phase" in the case that your transport died in your opponent's turn, your unit's subsequent assault phase is the one in your turn following your opponents.
Not sure on that. That rule states you are forbidden from charging after you have disembarked. This is having your ride shot out from under you. To me that is two totally different things. The picture the new guy posted seems to follow this as it illustrates ways to disembark and none of them show a wrecked vehicle as far as I can see.
ThirdUltra wrote:
In 3rd, one of the things i dreaded was trying to prevent orks, especially kult of speed, units from assaulting my IG lines. They would simply go flat-out, right up to my lines, begging me to destroy the transports to allow them to assault me. In 4th, they enacted the entangled rule to prevent this, but as we all know 4th had other issues besides this.
Didn't they have to FAQ an exploit in 5th where people would deliberately ram cheap transports into enemy tanks/buildings to wreck them, allowing the occupants to charge in the same turn?
Post 06/29/2012 04:52:34 AM Subject: Re:6th edition rumour and news summary (1st post updated daily with new info!)
ThirdUltra wrote:
In 3rd, one of the things i dreaded was trying to prevent orks, especially kult of speed, units from assaulting my IG lines. They would simply go flat-out, right up to my lines, begging me to destroy the transports to allow them to assault me. In 4th, they enacted the entangled rule to prevent this, but as we all know 4th had other issues besides this.
xttz wrote:Didn't they have to FAQ an exploit in 5th where people would deliberately ram cheap transports into enemy tanks/buildings to wreck them, allowing the occupants to charge in the same turn?
Drunkspleen wrote:You can't the rule forbids them from charging in "their subsequent assault phase" in the case that your transport died in your opponent's turn, your unit's subsequent assault phase is the one in your turn following your opponents.
Not sure on that. That rule states you are forbidden from charging after you have disembarked. This is having your ride shot out from under you. To me that is two totally different things. The picture the new guy posted seems to follow this as it illustrates ways to disembark and none of them show a wrecked vehicle as far as I can see.
If you are wrecked you disembark, maybe if your tank explodes you could still charge, not if it is wrecked because then you disembark as part of it being wrecked
Drunkspleen wrote:You can't the rule forbids them from charging in "their subsequent assault phase" in the case that your transport died in your opponent's turn, your unit's subsequent assault phase is the one in your turn following your opponents.
Not sure on that. That rule states you are forbidden from charging after you have disembarked. This is having your ride shot out from under you. To me that is two totally different things. The picture the new guy posted seems to follow this as it illustrates ways to disembark and none of them show a wrecked vehicle as far as I can see.
If you are wrecked you disembark, maybe if your tank explodes you could still charge, not if it is wrecked because then you disembark as part of it being wrecked
Then it appears that 6th may have its Entangle rule after all if this is the case,
Jidmah wrote:Would anyone with a rulebook please confirm whether you can charge on the turn you arrive from reserves?
No, no matter how many times you ask the same question.
I'm very sorry for not keeping up with a thread that grows 10 pages whenever I go to sleep. I have not yet found anyone who actually has proven to have the book state this.
I have a question for those who have a copy of the rulebook in English.
May you return the exact wording of the 'FEARLESS' USR ???
I would appreciate. Because the Italian manual seems to have been mistranslated.
Cannot charge after disembarking? Weird fluff-breaking allies? Sudden changes to weapons?
All of this can easily be explained in the fluff. For example:
Brother Malthus held onto the railing inside the ancient Rhino hull as another searing blast of dark energy glanced off the APC's failing armour. The Rhino came to a dead halt.
"Sergeant Adoni," Malthus said. "We cannot take much more of this." "I agree Brother," Sergeant Adoni said, his armour the gleaming colours of the Flesh Tearers. "Let us take the battle to these insolent curs! Everyone out!"
There was a sharp hiss of air as the rear hatch to the Rhino fell away. In an instant the combat-squad came roaring out of the vehicle. Sergeant Adoni held his power axe, a weapon that in recent days had felt heavier than before, above his head, signalling his four battle brothers to follow him. Malthus roared in defiance, and loosed a shot from his missile launcher. Much like his Sergeant's power axe, his launcher had felt different in recent days; lighter, more capable of firing on the move. He did not understand why, but thanked the Emperor and the great Primarch for this boon.
Glowing bolts of energy traced past the combat squad as they ran a short distance from their stationary transport. Malthus glanced quickly to his right and found himself confronted with the horror of... a Soul Grinder?
"Sergeant!" the Marine cried in dismay. "The Dark Eldar! They ally with... their arch enemy?" "I do not understand it myself, Brother Malthus," Adoni said. "All across the sector armies are forming from forces none of us understand. I've seen Black Templars scorn Sisters of Battle, Necrons fighting back to back with Blood Angels, and the Ultramarines attempting to rescue Tau! Only the Tyranids remain alone." "Thank the Primarch for that!" "Indeed brother."
The squad came to a sudden halt.
"Sergeant?" Malthus said, his voice filled with worry as as a nimble group of Harlequins - supported by the Daemons of Slaanesh - moved on their position. "Why have we stopped?" "We just disembarked Brother Malthus," Adoni said. There was incredulity in his voice.
Nearby Sergeant Vake's Rhino exploded in a hail of molten shards. "By Ba'al's red sands Sergeant," Malthus said. "Sergeant Vake... they'll be cut to ribbons... wait... they're charging?" "Of course Malthus," Sergeant Adoni said. "Their transport was destroyed, fuelling their anger. We simply disembarked. We must wait a moment before charging." "But that doesn't make any-" "It is the will of the Emperor Brother Malthus!"
Moments later Sergeant Adoni and his squad were wiped out by the Harlequin/Daemonette tag team.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Cannot charge after disembarking?
Weird fluff-breaking allies?
Sudden changes to weapons?
All of this can easily be explained in the fluff. For example:
Brother Malthus held onto the railing inside the ancient Rhino hull as another searing blast of dark energy glanced off the APC's failing armour. The Rhino came to a dead halt.
"Sergeant Adoni," Malthus said. "We cannot take much more of this."
"I agree Brother," Sergeant Adoni said, his armour the gleaming colours of the Flesh Tearers. "Let us take the battle to these insolent curs! Everyone out!"
There was a sharp hiss of air as the rear hatch to the Rhino fell away. In an instant the combat-squad came roaring out of the vehicle. Sergeant Adoni held his power axe, a weapon that in recent days had felt heavier than before, above his head, signalling his four battle brothers to follow him. Malthus roared in defiance, and loosed a shot from his missile launcher. Much like his Sergeant's power axe, his launcher had felt different in recent days; lighter, more capable of firing on the move. He did not understand why, but thanked the Emperor and the great Primarch for this boon.
Glowing bolts of energy traced past the combat squad as they ran a short distance from their stationary transport. Malthus glanced quickly to his right and found himself confronted with the horror of... a Soul Grinder?
"Sergeant!" the Marine cried in dismay. "The Dark Eldar! They ally with... their arch enemy?"
"I do not understand it myself, Brother Malthus," Adoni said. "All across the sector armies are forming from forces none of us understand. I've seen Black Templars scorn Sisters of Battle, Necrons fighting back to back with Blood Angels, and the Ultramarines attempting to rescue Tau! Only the Tyranids remain alone."
"Thank the Primarch for that!"
"Indeed brother."
The squad came to a sudden halt.
"Sergeant?" Malthus said, his voice filled with worry as as a nimble group of Harlequins - supported by the Daemons of Slaanesh - moved on their position. "Why have we stopped?"
"We just disembarked Brother Malthus," Adoni said. There was incredulity in his voice.
Nearby Sergeant Vake's Rhino exploded in a hail of molten shards.
"By Ba'al's red sands Sergeant," Malthus said. "Sergeant Vake... they'll be cut to ribbons... wait... they're charging?"
"Of course Malthus," Sergeant Adoni said. "Their transport was destroyed, fuelling their anger. We simply disembarked. We must wait a moment before charging."
"But that doesn't make any-"
"It is the will of the Emperor Brother Malthus!"
Moments later Sergeant Adoni and his squad were wiped out by the Harlequin/Daemonette tag team.
Nothing else posted here will top this. Thread over.
To be fair it does seem stupid that you'd want to refrain from shooting at an enemy transport, prefering instead to wait for the assault troops to come out, not assault and get blown up.
You wanted an end to transport spam. You got it
I don't think anyone answered this yet, so at the fear of sounding repetitive, I'll reiterate: Can pinned units overwatch?
If only the answer would be "no", then there'd be all kinds of fun things to try, with hexrifles and ratlings and even the Reaper, pinning enemies down before your own assault troops swoop in. Alas.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Cannot charge after disembarking?
Weird fluff-breaking allies?
Sudden changes to weapons?
All of this can easily be explained in the fluff. For example:
Brother Malthus held onto the railing inside the ancient Rhino hull as another searing blast of dark energy glanced off the APC's failing armour. The Rhino came to a dead halt.
"Sergeant Adoni," Malthus said. "We cannot take much more of this."
"I agree Brother," Sergeant Adoni said, his armour the gleaming colours of the Flesh Tearers. "Let us take the battle to these insolent curs! Everyone out!"
There was a sharp hiss of air as the rear hatch to the Rhino fell away. In an instant the combat-squad came roaring out of the vehicle. Sergeant Adoni held his power axe, a weapon that in recent days had felt heavier than before, above his head, signalling his four battle brothers to follow him. Malthus roared in defiance, and loosed a shot from his missile launcher. Much like his Sergeant's power axe, his launcher had felt different in recent days; lighter, more capable of firing on the move. He did not understand why, but thanked the Emperor and the great Primarch for this boon.
Glowing bolts of energy traced past the combat squad as they ran a short distance from their stationary transport. Malthus glanced quickly to his right and found himself confronted with the horror of... a Soul Grinder?
"Sergeant!" the Marine cried in dismay. "The Dark Eldar! They ally with... their arch enemy?"
"I do not understand it myself, Brother Malthus," Adoni said. "All across the sector armies are forming from forces none of us understand. I've seen Black Templars scorn Sisters of Battle, Necrons fighting back to back with Blood Angels, and the Ultramarines attempting to rescue Tau! Only the Tyranids remain alone."
"Thank the Primarch for that!"
"Indeed brother."
The squad came to a sudden halt.
"Sergeant?" Malthus said, his voice filled with worry as as a nimble group of Harlequins - supported by the Daemons of Slaanesh - moved on their position. "Why have we stopped?"
"We just disembarked Brother Malthus," Adoni said. There was incredulity in his voice.
Nearby Sergeant Vake's Rhino exploded in a hail of molten shards.
"By Ba'al's red sands Sergeant," Malthus said. "Sergeant Vake... they'll be cut to ribbons... wait... they're charging?"
"Of course Malthus," Sergeant Adoni said. "Their transport was destroyed, fuelling their anger. We simply disembarked. We must wait a moment before charging."
"But that doesn't make any-"
"It is the will of the Emperor Brother Malthus!"
Moments later Sergeant Adoni and his squad were wiped out by the Harlequin/Daemonette tag team.
I think people are jumping to the wrong conclusions for the assault vehicles... I just read through the last few pages and it seems there's been an oversight.
You cannot assault out of a vehicle... okay no one is contesting this.
However, there seems to be an assault trait for vehicles that allows this. And earlier in the thread I believe someone mentioned that all open top vehicles have the assault trait. This would make sense for dedicated assault transports, like the landraider with the ramp, but tanks like the rhino are designed to move troops into position. It is not set up to dive into the heart of the enemy lines and deploy specialists rapidly so that they can take advantage of their close combat wargear, since it doesn't have the equivalent ramp that would let the troops get (literally) a running start.
Agamemnon2 wrote:I don't think anyone answered this yet, so at the fear of sounding repetitive, I'll reiterate: Can pinned units overwatch?
No.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Marrak wrote:I think people are jumping to the wrong conclusions for the assault vehicles... I just read through the last few pages and it seems there's been an oversight.
You cannot assault out of a vehicle... okay no one is contesting this.
However, there seems to be an assault trait for vehicles that allows this. And earlier in the thread I believe someone mentioned that all open top vehicles have the assault trait. This would make sense for dedicated assault transports, like the landraider with the ramp, but tanks like the rhino are designed to move troops into position. It is not set up to dive into the heart of the enemy lines and deploy specialists rapidly so that they can take advantage of their close combat wargear, since it doesn't have the equivalent ramp that would let the troops get (literally) a running start.
You mean it'll no longer be possible for a BA army to stuff themselves in half a dozen rhinos, go flat out towards the enemy and pop smoke, then get out and assault?
Good
Thunderfrog wrote:
Whatcha play? I've been waiting for ebay to spike with army deals, as I'm looking to get INTO 40k with 6th. I played about 30 games of 5th total, since I only started in 2010. I got bored because I really really hated Rhino/Razor spam. This edition sounds like a godsend lol.
Btw, very creative string of curses... just one thing.. how often are families of cannibals rappers? I figure most cannibals are crazy hill people and I just don't see rap as their music of choice.
Lol, love it.
In all honesty though, assault in this edition doesn't look too good so far. Lets go over what we've learned.
1) Weapons now have profiles with power weapons becoming AP3
2) Random Charges make charging an uncertainty
3) Can't assault from vehicles anymore, even if they haven't moved unless you have a special rule to let you, which a lot of vehicles don't
4) Moving through cover unlocks random events via mysterious terrain rules
5) Overwatch, enemies get to shoot at you while you charge (even if it is only at BS1)
6) Cover save reduced to 5+
7) Feel no pain reduced to 5+ (OK we get to take it on Plasma but the majority of wounds come from small fire really)
Perhaps other can fill out things I've missed.
On the other hand, they are some nice shooting buffs
1) Rapid fire weapons can move and fire at full range with one shot, two at half range (instead of 12")
2) Can move and fire heavy weapons at snapshot
3) Get to shoot at guys when they charge you at BS1
4) Tanks can move and fire more weapons.
6) Sniper weapons can choose their target on a roll of a 6
And I'm sure they are lots of other things I've probably missed.
I Need to play a few games first but it looks like I'm going to have to change my tactics to shooting now. Assault was already something I thought was underpowered. It was very easy to take an all shooting list in 5th edition but taking an assault list without transports was quite hard in a lot of respects. As a Blood Angel player I used to take assault squads with priests and lot of jumpers and getting them up the board was already hard enough with blast weapons shooting you off the table. The only difference was some armies used transports to get them up to assault instead but that looks like not a great option now.
On the other hand, Blood Angel Tactical Squads actually look like they could be used for once. DC will run with Bolters now probably.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
angryboy2k wrote:
Thunderfrog wrote:
Btw, very creative string of curses... just one thing.. how often are families of cannibals rappers? I figure most cannibals are crazy hill people and I just don't see rap as their music of choice.
Dude's from Belgium, give him a break on the misspelling...
Also, he plays Khorne berserkers.
Yep, they're screwed. Although perhaps they'll get a massive boast in the next chaos dex.
Agamemnon2 wrote:I don't think anyone answered this yet, so at the fear of sounding repetitive, I'll reiterate: Can pinned units overwatch?
No.
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Marrak wrote:I think people are jumping to the wrong conclusions for the assault vehicles... I just read through the last few pages and it seems there's been an oversight.
You cannot assault out of a vehicle... okay no one is contesting this.
However, there seems to be an assault trait for vehicles that allows this. And earlier in the thread I believe someone mentioned that all open top vehicles have the assault trait. This would make sense for dedicated assault transports, like the landraider with the ramp, but tanks like the rhino are designed to move troops into position. It is not set up to dive into the heart of the enemy lines and deploy specialists rapidly so that they can take advantage of their close combat wargear, since it doesn't have the equivalent ramp that would let the troops get (literally) a running start.
You mean it'll no longer be possible for a BA army to stuff themselves in half a dozen rhinos, go flat out towards the enemy and pop smoke, then get out and assault?
Good
Yeah I'm not having a whole lot of sympathy for that loss, but I play nids. I'm used to my assault units running across the fields like baby turtles who just hatched and are praying they get to water before the seagulls come for lunch.
DarthOvious wrote:
I Need to play a few games first but it looks like I'm going to have to change my tactics to shooting now. Assault was already something I thought was underpowered. It was very easy to take an all shooting list in 5th edition but taking an assault list without transports was quite hard in a lot of respects. As a Blood Angel player I used to take assault squads with priests and lot of jumpers and getting them up the board was already hard enough with blast weapons shooting you off the table. The only difference was some armies used transports to get them up to assault instead but that looks like not a great option now.
If a blood angel player couldn't jump pack across the board, with 4+ cover and FNP...you're doing it wrong. Seriously.
BA were overpowered precicely because they could get anywhere on the board by turn two and kill whatever was there, and they counted according to how shooty their opponents were. Against IG (especially foot) and tau, it was no contest. Against enemies that could hold their own in CC (eldar, GK etc), less so.
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Marrak wrote:
Yeah I'm not having a whole lot of sympathy for that loss, but I play nids. I'm used to my assault units running across the fields like baby turtles who just hatched and are praying they get to water before the seagulls come for lunch.
And now your outflanking genestealers can no longer assault. You genuinely have my sympathy The new codex, whenever that will be, will sort you out.
Thunderfrog wrote:
"So, I cant help but notice you moved up your Wave Serpent then spun it's ass around to face my lascannons.."
"OH NO. Horrible mistake on my part. No need to let me take it back. Damn the luck. I guess you'll be popping that thing this turn right?"
"What's in it?"
"Just my Seer Council and Yriel, nothing big. So should I just go ahead and pull it off the board or are you going to waste time rolling to shoot it with your last shots of the turn?"
"No way pal. Let them walk on out on their own. I'll shoot something else."
"Damn."
Lol
Guardman: Sir!!! The enemy have turned their Rhino so its rear armour is facing us.
Commissar: Don't shoot that thing, there must be something big inside of it.
Guardsman: Oh OK. We'll shoot that Dradnohgt over there instead.
