Thunderfrog wrote:The only rumor I really want to see confirmed at this point is the Allies table and rules.

I can live/adjust to everything else. I just want to see the chart. I think it's funny how many marines will suddenly become friends with the Space Wolves and Blood Angels.

I could see my Grey Knights becoming friends with IG. Depending on how 6th edition works and the following ork faq/errata goes I may have 7-8k pts of Orks to trade for IG. Obviously I'll be playtest with the Orks before I make decisions, but its something to think about. lol

Dantalian wrote:I just remember that overwatch in 2nd ed was only a -1 modified shot of models that had prepared overwatch (tokens). This shot could be taken on any model that was in LoS, not just assaulting or moving closer. So basically it was free shots at the enemy during their movement phase.

I thought that if you chose to go on overwatch in that edition you could do nothing in your turn.

Standard and Gamer's edition is Mat Ward's 40k rules.
Collector's edition is pancake version ...

Just kidding

Altruizine wrote:Nothin' beats a prerelease RaW debate...

Pretty much...

Wait a minute - let me get this straight. My Nobs get a nerf to FNP from 4+ to 5+ and then you say "but it's effective against anything that doesn't cause instant death!"

Wait a !@#$ing minute, Grey Knights have Force Weapons, and Force Weapons inflict instant death. !@#$! !@#$@$@

Wait a !@#$ing minute, Grey Knights have Force Weapons, and Force Weapons inflict instant death. !@#$! !@#$@$@

It's not like you were getting any saves against those force weapons before, so I'm not sure what it has to do with FNP receiving a minor and in fact quite justified nerf. Assuming your Nobz have 4+ saves and FNP, for every ten basic hits that have managed to wound your Nobz, you take 0.83 more unsaved wounds than before because of the weakened FNP. I don't think it's something to cry yourself to sleep about.

Therion wrote:

Wait a !@#$ing minute, Grey Knights have Force Weapons, and Force Weapons inflict instant death. !@#$! !@#$@$@

It's not like you were getting any saves against those force weapons before, so I'm not sure what it has to do with FNP receiving a minor and in fact quite justified nerf. Assuming your Nobz have 4+ saves and FNP, for every ten basic hits that have managed to wound your Nobz, you take 0.83 more unsaved wounds than before because of the weakened FNP. I don't think it's something to cry yourself to sleep about.

4/6 = .5
5/6 = .33

Fishboy wrote:

Dantalian wrote:I just remember that overwatch in 2nd ed was only a -1 modified shot of models that had prepared overwatch (tokens). This shot could be taken on any model that was in LoS, not just assaulting or moving closer. So basically it was free shots at the enemy during their movement phase.

I thought that if you chose to go on overwatch in that edition you could do nothing in your turn.

This is indeed how it worked. You would do this for people who were out of range of your guns or were hiding behind LOS blocking terrain. So it for the most part eliminated the potential of a person to run cover to cover against you.

Fishboy wrote:

Dantalian wrote:I just remember that overwatch in 2nd ed was only a -1 modified shot of models that had prepared overwatch (tokens). This shot could be taken on any model that was in LoS, not just assaulting or moving closer. So basically it was free shots at the enemy during their movement phase.

I thought that if you chose to go on overwatch in that edition you could do nothing in your turn.

Nothing but shoot the other guy during their turn! The glory years! Add "krak shot" IG special rule and reroll misses!

Nerfing saves is a bit of a good thing all around for game balance, minus de wyches.... They really relied on that fnp save. But we'll see! 6th sounds great

Zid wrote:Nerfing saves is a bit of a good thing all around for game balance, minus de wyches.... They really relied on that fnp save. But we'll see! 6th sounds great

So Spess Mehreens get 4+ savez nao?

TedNugent wrote:4/6 = .5
5/6 = .33

4/6 = 0.66
5/6 = 0.83

Personally I think reducing FNP from 4+ to 5+ is a misguided attempt at 'balance'. The more elegant solution would be to simply make FNP a type of saving throw (like Armour, Cover, etc.) and then the X+ value would be done on a case-by-case basis. The rule would be something like:

"A Feel No Pain save can be taken in addition to any other save a model is allowed. It cannot be taken if the hit would cause Instant Death."

This would mean that you could still have Wyches with a 4+ FNP save, but allow for units that might be too powerful or durable with a 4+ to be reduced, or even for some extra-tough units to gain higher FNP saves. We've been playing this way for years now, and the system works perfectly.

Granularity with saving throws helps the game, and is better than these pendulum swing attempts at fixing things.

TedNugent wrote:So Spess Mehreens get 4+ savez nao?

Was it your intent to misspell every word in this post? I ask because you missed two of them.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Personally I think reducing FNP from 4+ to 5+ is a misguided attempt at 'balance'. The more elegant solution would be to simply make FNP a type of saving throw (like Armour, Cover, etc.) and then the X+ value would be done on a case-by-case basis. The rule would be something like:

In my opinion the only thing they had to do was make it fall off from attacks at strength double toughness, and AP2+. That way, FNP would still stick to Nobs in CC against GKs but it would be appropriately nerfed to compensate for the effects of instant death, thus balancing the transaction.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

TedNugent wrote:So Spess Mehreens get 4+ savez nao?

Was it your intent to misspell every word in this post? I ask because you missed two of them.

I dont see why Space Wolves dont get pyromancy..........with the chaoticness of their weather and there love for the elements I can see them having fun throwing a fireball up someones arse

Kroothawk wrote:Standard and Gamer's edition is Mat Ward's 40k rules.
Collector's edition is pancake version ...

Just kidding

Oh you!

H.B.M.C. wrote:Personally I think reducing FNP from 4+ to 5+ is a misguided attempt at 'balance'. The more elegant solution would be to simply make FNP a type of saving throw (like Armour, Cover, etc.) and then the X+ value would be done on a case-by-case basis. The rule would be something like:

"A Feel No Pain save can be taken in addition to any other save a model is allowed. It cannot be taken if the hit would cause Instant Death."

This would mean that you could still have Wyches with a 4+ FNP save, but allow for units that might be too powerful or durable with a 4+ to be reduced, or even for some extra-tough units to gain higher FNP saves. We've been playing this way for years now, and the system works perfectly.

Granularity with saving throws helps the game, and is better than these pendulum swing attempts at fixing things.

TedNugent wrote:So Spess Mehreens get 4+ savez nao?

Was it your intent to misspell every word in this post? I ask because you missed two of them.

I agree completely. I had hoped this was the system they would use. I guess they've still left the door open to make that distinction within codexes, but since they made it so prevalent a rule over the last few years that seems that is really unlikely. As a Death Guard player that's disappointing. Thing is the slight buff with AP1 and AP2 not ignoring FNP doesn't really make sense.

I like a lot of the changes rumored so far but there are a handful where it seems they've made a change just for the sake of change, and FNP seems to be among them. I guess we'll see how it all shakes out in a week.

I think that AP1 and 2 ignoring FNP was great, it was a sensible way for standard troops to be able to dent Blood Angel bubbles and kill Nobs/Paladins.

Now Plasma guns are kinda iffy.

And at the same time I still get screwed against Grey Knights. This rule makes me sad.

LakotaWolf wrote:I dont see why Space Wolves dont get pyromancy..........with the chaoticness of their weather and there love for the elements I can see them having fun throwing a fireball up someones arse

It's because they're the winter/snow/ice/crushing ice cold waves of water kinda people.

Salamanders are the pyros, we all know that.

@H.B.M.C: well done. Well done.

I'm noticing something looking at the names/fragmented text of the generic psychic powers.

Most of them already exist in game. - catalyst, leech essence, vortex of doom, avenger, null zone, machine curse, blood lance, all have homologous powers to the different disciplines. We don't know what the primaris powers are (the ones you're allowed to swap any roll on the chart for) but i assume they're basic, like fireball or something.

This makes me much more hopeful for the future of 40K - the closest thing i see to purple sun of xereus is the vortex of doom and it's range is only 12". The hallucination power that eldar have access to is VERY intimidating, but it's just psychotroke grenades (basically). Also as the level 6 power on the chart, it will probably be more difficult to cast...maybe?

Still none of these look like they'll break the game. It does look like i'll be Allying my tau and necrons with my blood angels frequently, if allowed.

pretre wrote:@H.B.M.C: well done. Well done.

tetrisphreak wrote:I'm noticing something looking at the names/fragmented text of the generic psychic powers.

Most of them already exist in game. - catalyst, leech essence, vortex of doom, avenger, null zone, machine curse, blood lance, all have homologous powers to the different disciplines. We don't know what the primaris powers are (the ones you're allowed to swap any roll on the chart for) but i assume they're basic, like fireball or something.

This makes me much more hopeful for the future of 40K - the closest thing i see to purple sun of xereus is the vortex of doom and it's range is only 12". The hallucination power that eldar have access to is VERY intimidating, but it's just psychotroke grenades (basically). Also as the level 6 power on the chart, it will probably be more difficult to cast...maybe?

Still none of these look like they'll break the game. It does look like i'll be Allying my tau and necrons with my blood angels frequently, if allowed.

Uhh I saw one listed as Puppet master that seemed like it was about to say it assumed control of a squad (similar to Necrons). That intimidates me that some psychers can do that with squads of men.

Dantalian wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:I'm noticing something looking at the names/fragmented text of the generic psychic powers.

Most of them already exist in game. - catalyst, leech essence, vortex of doom, avenger, null zone, machine curse, blood lance, all have homologous powers to the different disciplines. We don't know what the primaris powers are (the ones you're allowed to swap any roll on the chart for) but i assume they're basic, like fireball or something.

This makes me much more hopeful for the future of 40K - the closest thing i see to purple sun of xereus is the vortex of doom and it's range is only 12". The hallucination power that eldar have access to is VERY intimidating, but it's just psychotroke grenades (basically). Also as the level 6 power on the chart, it will probably be more difficult to cast...maybe?

Still none of these look like they'll break the game. It does look like i'll be Allying my tau and necrons with my blood angels frequently, if allowed.

Uhh I saw one listed as Puppet master that seemed like it was about to say it assumed control of a squad (similar to Necrons). That intimidates me that some psychers can do that with squads of men.

Psychic hoods are going to be musts for any large game.

In smaller games, maybe not as much depending on the opponent. After all the psyker becomes a very hot target, and i bet that puppet master spell has a range of 12". Gotta get close, and in so doing he's gotta stare down your guns.

Here to the hope that Tau will have a natural save/immunity to mind control psycher abilities. I mean their fluff completely supports immunity :\

tetrisphreak wrote:

Dantalian wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:I'm noticing something looking at the names/fragmented text of the generic psychic powers.

Most of them already exist in game. - catalyst, leech essence, vortex of doom, avenger, null zone, machine curse, blood lance, all have homologous powers to the different disciplines. We don't know what the primaris powers are (the ones you're allowed to swap any roll on the chart for) but i assume they're basic, like fireball or something.

This makes me much more hopeful for the future of 40K - the closest thing i see to purple sun of xereus is the vortex of doom and it's range is only 12". The hallucination power that eldar have access to is VERY intimidating, but it's just psychotroke grenades (basically). Also as the level 6 power on the chart, it will probably be more difficult to cast...maybe?

Still none of these look like they'll break the game. It does look like i'll be Allying my tau and necrons with my blood angels frequently, if allowed.

Uhh I saw one listed as Puppet master that seemed like it was about to say it assumed control of a squad (similar to Necrons). That intimidates me that some psychers can do that with squads of men.

Psychic hoods are going to be musts for any large game.

In smaller games, maybe not as much depending on the opponent. After all the psyker becomes a very hot target, and i bet that puppet master spell has a range of 12". Gotta get close, and in so doing he's gotta stare down your guns.

I bet Tyranids will have a nice psychic advantage with Shadow in the Warp. I bet they beefed up Perils as well though :p

TedNugent wrote:I think that AP1 and 2 ignoring FNP was great, it was a sensible way for standard troops to be able to dent Blood Angel bubbles and kill Nobs/Paladins.

Now Plasma guns are kinda iffy.

And at the same time I still get screwed against Grey Knights. This rule makes me sad.

How are they iffy?
They still are going to cause wounds on 2+ on most thing and Pen every armor out there, but Invs. So GK dont loose their FNP, anthing with a T3 or less will still be ID.

Not to mention it sounds like AP2 is getting a buff against vehicles.

Ah as much as I thought I would try to avoid buying into the hype of this release I have now:

Painted and based two more units for my army.

Saved enough money for either the standard or collectors rulebook (I am a sucker for hard back books with great illustrations.)

Organised transport into town this weekend to the new games workshop in Auckland for a nosey and maybe a pre-order.

This is in comparison to the two games of warhammer 40k I have had over the six months after taking up Magic the Gathering.

These teaser clips may be lame in every sense of the word and games workshop may be backwards with their marketing campaigns but in reality they have worked in getting me interested in the game again.

So far, I don't see anything that is going to make a huge difference in what I take.

I need to understand hull points better, if that makes it in. I could be dropping melta for flamer or plasma if you lose hull points with a glance.

I also would like to see the allies rule so I can min/max that in my lists as well. I would love to mix gk strike squads in with my space wolves. I will see how to min/max that with trading in the gkss's powers for 6th ed ones. I wonder how that rule is worded. Might be interesting to swap out fortitude for a 6th ed power.

However, Coteaz with a bunch of power axe wielding crusaders seems...quite interesting.

I don't get how you can say the marketing campaigns are backwards when you just said it has pulled back you into the game.
It seems to me the marketing is working a treat and there is heaps of hype about the book and despite the "lame " teasers.

spiraleddie wrote:I don't get how you can say the marketing campaigns are backwards when you just said it has pulled back you into the game.
It seems to me the marketing is working a treat and there is heaps of hype about the book and despite the "lame " teasers.

That's not the marketing. It's the very leaks that GW is trying to prevent that are getting people into the game.

If GW's method actually worked, all you'd have is an apparent date, some pretty pictures, and some music from DoWII. And you can't forget ASTARTES! ASTARTES!

spiraleddie wrote:I don't get how you can say the marketing campaigns are backwards when you just said it has pulled back you into the game.
It seems to me the marketing is working a treat and there is heaps of hype about the book and despite the "lame " teasers.

...and outrage and negativity...

As a Tyranid player, I've been excited and let down this rumor season so many times that I simply stopped caring...
Some people still have hope that the new 6thEd rules may have some changes positive to the game.

Rumor are rumors and they vary in reliability. Many of us are playing other games in addition to 40k and pretty much all we care about in 40k is oftentimes the assurance that there may be new models coming out for the armies we have collected, who, in turn, are now collecting dust.

Absolutionis wrote:

spiraleddie wrote:I don't get how you can say the marketing campaigns are backwards when you just said it has pulled back you into the game.
It seems to me the marketing is working a treat and there is heaps of hype about the book and despite the "lame " teasers.

...and outrage and negativity...

As a Tyranid player, I've been excited and let down this rumor season so many times that I simply stopped caring...
Some people still have hope that the new 6thEd rules may have some changes positive to the game.

Rumor are rumors and they vary in reliability. Many of us are playing other games in addition to 40k and pretty much all we care about in 40k is oftentimes the assurance that there may be new models coming out for the armies we have collected, who, in turn, are now collecting dust.

This is true.

However, if the relentless rumor is true, logan and long fangs just got an 11 on their dial!

I can't believe just how much better space wolves are getting with the 'rumors'. It's certainly making me a rumor monger now!

Changes to FNP sounds like a good balance to me. On one hand it's nerfed down to a 5+, and on the other hand it's improved in that it ignores AP1 and AP2.

Plague marines, nurgle deamons, and TMC seem to be the real winners here. As for the rest it's going to vary a lot depending on the situation.

Wyches will do very well now against power weapons and rending attacks, but not do as well against a large volume of fire. I like that fluff wise. The wyches become even more of an elite CC unit when in CC, and less of a tank when it comes to charging across no man land against huge volumes of firepower.

infinite_array wrote:That's not the marketing. It's the very leaks that GW is trying to prevent that are getting people into the game

Exactly. GW's 'marketing' strategy of not revealing anything until just before release would (arguably) work if the information didn't get out anyway. But as it is, the leaks are still happening, so then when GW start their last minute 'Psst, we're releasing something exciting, but it's a mystery!' push, it's just ridiculous and irritating. We already know what it is, and we've just had several weeks or months of sitting around waiting for GW to get around to actually showing us something concrete.

GW were worried about people losing interest if they announce new stuff too far in advance... but the current system, where the new stuff gets spoilered anyway just without as much concrete information is more likely to cause people to lose interest while they wait for GW to decide to fill in the gaps in what they already know.

I keep thinking that overwatch is a USR that allows a unit to use it's BS for the Snap Fire rule.

I wonder how the Snap Fire rule will interact with the Targeting Array for the Tau. Will they then get a BS 2?

The thing is there is all this outrage and fuming but I bet 99% of the ragers and fumers will still buy the new books etc.

*searches for 'raging' and 'fuming'*

*is unable to locate any*


Hmm... I see some critical discussion of things people aren't too enthusiastic about. No raging and certainly no fuming.

Methinks you're just looking to start a fight.

Ah, internet fisticuffs.

'Tis the sport of the electron-aristocracy.

'You there, scoundrel! You have offended what little morals the interblag requires me to possess! I challenge you to a flame war, tomorrow at dawn! The subject is your choice, you cur!'

H.B.M.C. wrote:*searches for 'raging' and 'fuming'*

*is unable to locate any*


Hmm... I see some critical discussion of things people aren't too enthusiastic about. No raging and certainly no fuming.

Methinks you're just looking to start a fight.

Precisely. People will hate 6th edition, but they will still play it. Why? Because the hipsters who play Warhamordes get pretty annoying pretty quick.

spiraleddie wrote:The thing is there is all this outrage and fuming but I bet 99% of the ragers and fumers will still buy the new books etc.

You will find the internet far less puzzling if you don't assume that any critical comment is spawned from a frothing rage.

There is a very large divide between being critical of something and raging about it.

Mandor wrote:Short summary on generating psychic powers:

* For each eligible psyker, you may chose to either use your codex powers or replace all of them with rulebook powers;
* You get a fixed number of random powers from disciplines available to your army;
* You may chose the discipline for every power you generate (aka for each roll).

Number of powers generated
Two powers: Librarian (Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Marines, Space Wolves), Primaris Psyker, Coteaz, Ezekiel, Mephiston, Njal, Typhus
Three powers: Ahriman, Tigurius
Four powers: Eldrad
Equal to mastery level: Librarian (Grey Knights), Inquisitors (Grey Knights)
Equal to number of purchased powers in codex: Chaos Space Marines (any psyker), Farseer
Equal to number of powers in codex (including purchased powers): Tyranids (any psyker)

pretre wrote:Seems like eldar get the new ones in addition.

This says replace for each faction, including Eldar.

makes this an easy choice for me, since I run Njal...access to all 6 Space Wolf powers to use as I want, or 2 random ones from a discpline? no thanks...

warpcrafter wrote:Precisely. People will hate 6th edition, but they will still play it. Why? Because the hipsters who play Warhamordes get pretty annoying pretty quick.

And now you're just trying to start a fight. What the hell has any of this got to do with PP games?

I cant wait to see what fielding a Seer Council on Jet Bikes will be like.

I had been considering selling my Eldar army. Glad I didn't...

I don't know H.B.M.C.
I'm pretty raged still about allies given the current rules in WD are all there is to them. I'm hoping there is a lot more stuff to allies than "choose and HQ and Troop choice, then feel free to the rest after that." There needs to be more restrictions, price increase or some buff to armies going it solo. There was one person in all the questions asked to reps that stated there will be some restrictions based on how friendly they are to each other, let's hope that balances things out well. But from how I see it all Imperium races will be on top of the charts with each other which is rather painful for xenos.

I'm going to hate allies no matter what, I just want the book to come out to know how much I'm going to hate it.

You don't like the (potential) allies rules, but you're not foaming at the mouth calling for Ward's head (well, no more than any of us normally would).

I mean I'm probably gonna hate the whole thing - a book filled to the gills with wonderful concepts and great ideas but all horrifically executed and flawed - but I'm not declaring a blood fued on anyone or engaging local hitmen to take out the developers.

I'm just hoping that eventually people might understand that "criticism" =/= "hate".

I must say that I am not a fan of most of the stuff I have read. Allies is just a pain in the butt if you ask me. (maybe a marketing thing for GW I am guessing, selling more models) I have never really used Psykers at all and this whole random thing is going to make sure I don't pick up any. I am also not a fan of the idea of purchasing terrain for you army.(another money making scheme for GW, buy our cool terrain that you can add to your army now) I thought soliders were supposed to adapt to there suroundings? Random terrrain? really? Seems like assault based armies are pretty much going to be few and far between. Random charges? Really? Seems like its back to 3rd with shooty army against shooty army. Granted there will be more moving then I saw in 3rd. I really hate the front to back wounds. That is so lame on sooooo many levels. To take something that worked like we had in 5th( minus the multi plasma hits problem) and to make it so lame as to do this. It just makes me alittle sad inside. I can honestly say that I am actually depressed from this. I will look into 6th ed when it comes out, but I am not thrilled about what I am hearing.

You have a positively Rosy view of the world Dantalian.
i on the other hand think most of the changes sound good. I already sold my nids so i am not ticked off about the nerf that the rules seem to present. Orks, meh. Probably suffer a mild nerf. Space marines still seem pretty solid and since i play chaos, any change is good.

I hope they manage to get all the DE's updated for this edition, so eventually, they can update and balance a system that isn't so damn crufty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruft

Seriously, if they fixed their release cycle it might actually allow them to write a tight ruleset that doesn't have to account and balance for codexs written nearly a decade and two editions ago.

Sigh well at least I play Tau and BT, assuming either army eventually gets an update I should be covered which ever way 6th pushes the game (ie mech vs infantry, and/or assault vs shooty).

I'm screwed on the psyker front though, if that becomes a big thing


Also I had a thought on allies and the fluff in a alot of the past few codexs- Dark Eldar Teaming up with Tau, Blood Angels kickin it with Necrons etc. Could this have been an attempt to set up fluff which covered allies rules that allow factions you wouldn't have thought of as fighting together as doing so? Might explain why such things totoally came outa left field.

schadenfreude wrote:Changes to FNP sounds like a good balance to me. On one hand it's nerfed down to a 5+, and on the other hand it's improved in that it ignores AP1 and AP2.

Plague marines, nurgle deamons, and TMC seem to be the real winners here. As for the rest it's going to vary a lot depending on the situation.

Wyches will do very well now against power weapons and rending attacks, but not do as well against a large volume of fire. I like that fluff wise. The wyches become even more of an elite CC unit when in CC, and less of a tank when it comes to charging across no man land against huge volumes of firepower.

I don't know, as a DE player, none of the rumoured changes sound like good news to my assault units. I'm new, but I'm failing to see how wyches would become an elite CC, less of a tank, certainly... but what rumoured changes is improving a wych unit? Power weapon rumour is still all over the place, but worst case scenario is our agoniser losing the guarantee'd wound on termies. But if I have to wager a guess, you're talking about the 2D6"(re-rollable thanks to fleet) charge.. but...

I'd say, on average, we'd be getting 6-8" on 2D6, which is all good and well. However, would DE players really count on that chance of a >6" roll? Isn't the reason that not many DE players footlog their wyches exactly because of their fragile nature out of combat? Unlike tougher units, failing a charge means losing the unit in shootings the next turn... So, is that chance of getting >6" really worth it? You could be disembarking for an assault from >12" away, but what if both your run and charge failed? You'd stopped a few inches off, then lose an entire unit. Not to mention now we have a chance of failing a <6" charge if the dice god really hates you that day. So, your safest bet is still to park your boat close, disembark at a distance that you could get a fairly certain assault, which would mean... wyches didn't really gain a huge boost in charge distance(unless you like your chances), but gained a chance to fail at a formerly safe distance(6"), as well as a weaker FNP.

I'm not saying 2D6" charge is a disadvantage for all CC units, but for wyches, who are fragile and not in large number, I'd definitely say random charge is more a nerf than a buff.

On the other hand, if you look at, say, any MEq with FNP, then FNP actually got buffed for them, as they can actually survive power weapon wounds.

Of course, I'm not gonna mash the panic button over rumours, but I certainly wouldn't say things are looking up for my plan to build an assault-heavy DE army at the moment. It looks like DE has just gone from glass cannon/hammer to thin ice cannon/hammer, all they gotta do is add in auto-wound rolls each turn for DE. -after all, fluff-wise, they're literally dying, are they not?- then my "thin-ice" label would actually be true: easier to break than glass, may even shatter/melt on its own!

I've gotta say, these rumors, and their confirmations from WD, have me really pumped for 6th edition. And yes, I am pre-ordering the book tomorrow at my FLGS.

I can't wait to pull out my Primaris Psyker and give him some actually useful powers for starters! Maybe some ratlings for directed fire and choosing their target on 6's. Oh and since I play infantry guard, I love the changes to rapid fire and also the snap and defensive fires. Yes, please, I dare you to charge my 30 strong units with a Commissar in tow!

The Warlord idea is really cool as well, I'm happy with that since it gives some extra "character" to our characters.

In short, a lot of the rules remind me of the zaniness of Rogue Trader. I feel like a lot of the issues that people are having is with the randomness of some of the proposed changes. I feel like if you're looking at WH40k for a balanced ruleset that was your first mistake. If you also are trying to do competitive games with a ruleset you know isn't balanced, that's another mistake. "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" is what comes to mind.

On the bright side, I feel like 6th is going to allow for a lot of fun storytelling which is the most important part of the game for me!

Baronyu wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:Changes to FNP sounds like a good balance to me. On one hand it's nerfed down to a 5+, and on the other hand it's improved in that it ignores AP1 and AP2.

Plague marines, nurgle deamons, and TMC seem to be the real winners here. As for the rest it's going to vary a lot depending on the situation.

Wyches will do very well now against power weapons and rending attacks, but not do as well against a large volume of fire. I like that fluff wise. The wyches become even more of an elite CC unit when in CC, and less of a tank when it comes to charging across no man land against huge volumes of firepower.

I don't know, as a DE player, none of the rumoured changes sound like good news to my assault units. I'm new, but I'm failing to see how wyches would become an elite CC, less of a tank, certainly... but what rumoured changes is improving a wych unit? Power weapon rumour is still all over the place, but worst case scenario is our agoniser losing the guarantee'd wound on termies. But if I have to wager a guess, you're talking about the 2D6"(re-rollable thanks to fleet) charge.. but...

I'd say, on average, we'd be getting 6-8" on 2D6, which is all good and well. However, would DE players really count on that chance of a >6" roll? Isn't the reason that not many DE players footlog their wyches exactly because of their fragile nature out of combat? Unlike tougher units, failing a charge means losing the unit in shootings the next turn... So, is that chance of getting >6" really worth it? You could be disembarking for an assault from >12" away, but what if both your run and charge failed? You'd stopped a few inches off, then lose an entire unit. Not to mention now we have a chance of failing a <6" charge if the dice god really hates you that day. So, your safest bet is still to park your boat close, disembark at a distance that you could get a fairly certain assault, which would mean... wyches didn't really gain a huge boost in charge distance(unless you like your chances), but gained a chance to fail at a formerly safe distance(6"), as well as a weaker FNP.

I'm not saying 2D6" charge is a disadvantage for all CC units, but for wyches, who are fragile and not in large number, I'd definitely say random charge is more a nerf than a buff.

On the other hand, if you look at, say, any MEq with FNP, then FNP actually got buffed for them, as they can actually survive power weapon wounds.

Of course, I'm not gonna mash the panic button over rumours, but I certainly wouldn't say things are looking up for my plan to build an assault-heavy DE army at the moment. It looks like DE has just gone from glass cannon/hammer to thin ice cannon/hammer, all they gotta do is add in auto-wound rolls each turn for DE. -after all, fluff-wise, they're literally dying, are they not?- then my "thin-ice" label would actually be true: easier to break than glass, may even shatter/melt on its own!

Wyches should perform better against all power weapon units. It's also going to largely depend on how the fleet rules turn out. If it's 2" extra movement and rerolls to charge distance it's going to be good news. Also as much as wyches lose grotesques gain. T5 FNP can still gain FNP against power weapons, power fists, melta guns, and plasma guns.

Odd no one is discussing the german 6th edition rulebook leak.

Ozeo wrote:Odd no one is discussing the german 6th edition rulebook leak.

1. I imagine most of us don't speak/read German
2. Possible mod unhappyness discussing released rules.
3. What rulebook?! OMFG LINK!

Vaktathi wrote:

Lockark wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:
Which is about all the meltavet squad is good for, the MC can engage a much larger array of opponents more effectively and doesn't care about stuff like smoke launchers and does have opportunities for auto-hits (yes, tanks do get stunned in this game, and yes, sometimes they don't move so they can shoot). Lets also not forget that there are cheaper MC's than 200pts that are perfectly capable, such as CSM daemon princes, 6 attacks on a charge with wings at S6 for 140pt khornate DP, what's not to like?

Notice I did bring up issues of MC cost earlier as well. Notice nobody is opining about the poor Canoptek Spiders getting nerfed at 50pts each with S6 T6 W3 A2(3?) 3+ each? No, it's the fact that they did stuff like cost carnifex's that get 1 more wound and 1 or 2 more attacks and a largely pointless S9 at triple the price.

Um. Truth be told MC's are prety "meh" in 5th has been my experience.... Missile Spam is fairly common since it is effective ageist armies who are heavy on both Tank and Infantry. Even more so ageist the very mec heavy armies of 5th. Missile Spam also has the added bonous that it will also drop alot of thows T6/+3Sv MC's VERY quickly.

I get people argue that MC's are the be all end all in CC but the problem is CC MC's have a VERY hard time getting their in the face of punishing missile spam.

I am also not convinced they are even that much of the be all end all in CC. Large Squads with hidden power fists (I.E. Orks) and the dreaded Thunder-naders can easily make a joke out of most CC MC's.

So to me seeing MC's losing their 2D6 Armour pen is kinda concerning since that was one of the few things they had going for them. To me the Slam Attack is only a proper replacement to the 2D6 Armour pen, if vehicles are also easier to hit in CC now.

Those are primarily issues of A: Missile spam being way too cheap and capable in a couple of armies, B: Costs, and C: crazy invul saves being made widely available (such as in the case of TH/SS termi's and thunder wolves, which really are MC's in and of themselves for all practical purposes aside from armor pen). Not every army can slap in 15 BS4 krak missiles in 420pts, most MC's certainly aren't going to face a flurry of missiles against Chaos, Eldar, Necron, Ork, Daemon, Tau, Sisters, etc armies. Even most IG armies you're mostly facing (typically) either pie-plates that'll do 1 wound to an MC or lots of multilaser/heavy bolters/autocannon fire that's not wounding on 2's and not punching through the armor, with few *long* range AP2/3 guns, as missile launchers aren't widely available in the IG codex and are generally considered overcosted, and Lascannons you typically only see either on vendettas so there will be only 9 or you'll see them in infantry armies that won't have much in the way of stuff that MC's are great against anyway.

Essentially the issue is that yeah, TWC's with SS's backed up by cheap, plentiful and highly effective heavy weapons troops make life awful for MC's. Not every army has shock troops that can shrug off MC attacks and absurdly undercosted heavy weapons troops.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you that alot of the problems MC's currently have stem from other army lists more then the core rules. But the problem is that it's not just the Space Wolves who give MC's the big "Eff Uwe".

Even putting Space Wolves aside, Missile Spam is something you see alot in 'nillia, BA, and (Deathwing) DA. Grey Knights also get a honourable Mention due to their Super Force Weapons. (Even the Deamon Prince/Avatar don't get off easy due to Grey Knights Anti-Demon Abilities.) Black Templar Also got acess to cheap Cyclon Missile launchers and TH/SS due to their errta.

Chaos Space Marines also get a honorable mention, because any Chaos Army Worth it's Salt is going to be 2 Lash Scor and 9 oblits. I've killed Many MC's by pulling them into the Rapid Fire Range of my 9 oblits, or just dropping them with the 9 las-shots 1st turn. The only time I ever get into CC with a MC is because I pulled a squad of gaunts next to a fex, so I could muti-assault and throw everything into the gaunts. Because I like killing fexs with no retreat wounds when I can't be bothered to shoot at them with Oblits.

I'm not going to debate the IG's Anti-MC ability. The army lists that can come out of that book can very so wildly, that even saying a IG army is mostly "multilaser/heavy bolters/autocannon fire" is not even that accurate. For IG their anti-MC ability real comes down to the individual lists. Heck, for some IG lists you can even end up crateing a strong Anti-MC list by mistake.

As for Tau, I don't play ageist them very often or even know their book very well. But..... Isn't the common tactic for Tau is to load up their crisis suits with twin linked Plasma guns and Missile Launchers? The few times I've play ageist Tau Armies it seems to me their is a reason why Crisis suits are a popular choice.

I will admit thow. Having just seen the rumour about flying MC's needing 6's to hit in the shooting phase is nice. But other wise I don't see Walking MC's becoming a popular choice agien any time soon.

IIRC

Necrons used to be hurt by ap1/2 back in the day
now they dont care.

It seems wyches got the same kind of treatment.

I am assuming the idea is to balance everything out. Plasma/metla are now ignored by BA/DE/NIDS and are thus wasted. But in a TAC list we now have to consider termies being more prevalent so we still need low ap weapons.

I get the Idea but it realy hurts those armies. FNP not only kept troops alive but it forced your oppoenent to use big guns on little guys. Now my wyches wont attrach any heavy fire leaving my ravagers out to bear.

Carnage43 wrote:

Ozeo wrote:Odd no one is discussing the german 6th edition rulebook leak.

1. I imagine most of us don't speak/read German
2. Possible mod unhappyness discussing released rules.
3. What rulebook?! OMFG LINK!

Yeah, see I keep hearing about the german 6th edition leak but I haven't seen anything yet. Granted I looked for all of 1 minute for it

Ozeo wrote:Odd no one is discussing the german 6th edition rulebook leak.

Thus far, there hasn't been any real evidence that this leak is even real. The only link I've found to it was a troll/rickroll.

Fetterkey wrote:

Ozeo wrote:Odd no one is discussing the german 6th edition rulebook leak.

Thus far, there hasn't been any real evidence that this leak is even real. The only link I've found to it was a troll/rickroll.

Hahaha I'd laugh so hard if there was another GW teaser and it was just a rickroll

H.B.M.C. wrote:You don't like the (potential) allies rules, but you're not foaming at the mouth calling for Ward's head (well, no more than any of us normally would).

I mean I'm probably gonna hate the whole thing - a book filled to the gills with wonderful concepts and great ideas but all horrifically executed and flawed - but I'm not declaring a blood fued on anyone or engaging local hitmen to take out the developers.

I'm just hoping that eventually people might understand that "criticism" =/= "hate".

At least your lucky enough to have local hitmen.

On the brightside, I guess I can start shoehorning all those DE units I think are decidedly better than Eldar equivilents into my own lists.

Man, I know it probably wouldnt work, but if I could squeeze my seer council into a DE assault transport.. or hell, like someone else said earlier, a LR or a Stormraven!

I'm curious as to how the allies will work, when someone takes an ally HQ who has a special FOC manipulation effect. Doesn't someone from the BA allow you to take DC Dreads as a troops choice? Because that would be kinda funny.

You get a extra FOC slot for all the units outside you codex that you want to take.

Let's say they only give 1 detachment slot

That mean that for my Tyranid I would only be able to take one squad of broadsides.

At the same time, if a bring all 3 of my Zoanthrope Broods, I can add another brood and call it a detachment. Saying it's from another swarm.

EDIT: There has to be a limit on what you can take in you're detachments. I'm seeing Eldar in LRs, I'm seeing GKs with Ghaz'grall, I'm seeing Genestealers in LRs

broodstar wrote:You get a extra FOC slot for all the units outside you codex that you want to take.

Let's say they only give 1 detachment slot

That mean that for my Tyranid I would only be able to take one squad of broadsides.

At the same time, if a bring all 3 of my Zoanthrope Broods, I can add another brood and call it a detachment. Saying it's from another swarm.

Tau and Nids as allies - hardly imaginable.

wuestenfux wrote:

broodstar wrote:You get a extra FOC slot for all the units outside you codex that you want to take.

Let's say they only give 1 detachment slot

That mean that for my Tyranid I would only be able to take one squad of broadsides.

At the same time, if a bring all 3 of my Zoanthrope Broods, I can add another brood and call it a detachment. Saying it's from another swarm.

Tau and Nids as allies - hardly imaginable.

Just making an example. In fluff, Tau and Tyranids absolutely hate eachother.

TBH I'm trying my best not to get worked up in any way about the rumours. Not that I don't love hearing them and how the changes will affect the game, I do. But equally drawing conclusions from a rule (or rules) which may or may not be 100% accurate and are looked at in a total vacuum seems like a pretty pointless exercise.

That said though I am off tonight to get my advance-order in a day early.

Thanks to Kroot for the thread.

Lukus83 wrote:TBH I'm trying my best not to get worked up in any way about the rumours. Not that I don't love hearing them and how the changes will affect the game, I do. But equally drawing conclusions from a rule (or rules) which may or may not be 100% accurate and are looked at in a total vacuum seems like a pretty pointless exercise.

That said though I am off tonight to get my advance-order in a day early.

Thanks to Kroot for the thread.

That's actually a good way to deal with this. Speculations and drawing conclusion from a rumored rule set are a waste of time. This is why I'm not following this thread ... *cough* *cough*

wuestenfux wrote: Tau and Nids as allies - hardly imaginable.

Seriously, I'm wondering If this is why necrons suddenly got all personable (and teamed up with the BA ). Ward may have actually been directed to write stories like this in his codexes to pave the way for new allies rules in the fluff.

Granted it might imply alot of foresight on the part of GW, but I gotta imagine that the problem of the high buy in cost for second armies had to have occured to the brass a while back. Ally rules as a way of helping fix this problem w thier buisness plan coulda been one of the first ideas for 6th.

I dunno if you remember but in 3rd ( a little bit) and 4th( a bit more) there where allready rules for allies in certain codexes...

And nobody found it strange at the time, it was even customary, people found it stranger when they got the Allies rules out of said codexes with 5th.

Now we get them back and people arn't still satisfied...,man do players are an ungratefull bunch...

Restrictions?, there allready is in some sens, that you can only take 1 of each slot in allies, and i can bet that there will be ruling that will prevent army's to get benefits from their allies global rules, like FoC modifications and stuff.

Now if you really don't like allies in your army, and don't want to play against someone who does use them, you can always houserule it into a "solo" army encounter, juste speak with the damn guy who is siting next/infront of you...S P E A K I N G ..., you now the thing normal human beings does...well generaly.

CorvidMP wrote:

wuestenfux wrote: Tau and Nids as allies - hardly imaginable.

Seriously, I'm wondering If this is why necrons suddenly got all personable (and teamed up with the BA ). Ward may have actually been directed to write stories like this in his codexes to pave the way for new allies rules in the fluff.

Granted it might imply alot of foresight on the part of GW, but I gotta imagine that the problem of the high buy in cost for second armies had to have occured to the brass a while back. Ally rules as a way of helping fix this problem w thier buisness plan coulda been one of the first ideas for 6th.

In fact, the allies rule could become profitable for GW. Instead of affording a whole new army, you only need a detachment of unit (flyers all the way).

H.B.M.C. wrote:

warpcrafter wrote:Precisely. People will hate 6th edition, but they will still play it. Why? Because the hipsters who play Warhamordes get pretty annoying pretty quick.

And now you're just trying to start a fight. What the hell has any of this got to do with PP games?

I'm just remarking on my experience with the people who play at my FLGS on a regular basis. They're not bad people, just young and fixated on worthless cultural values. Besides, YOU start fights on Dakka all the time.

Slayer le boucher wrote:
Now if you really don't like allies in your army, and don't want to play against someone who does use them, you can always houserule it into a "solo" army encounter, juste speak with the damn guy who is siting next/infront of you...S P E A K I N G ..., you now the thing normal human beings does...well generaly.

Dude, you need to calm down. You're taking this way to seriously.

Slayer le boucher wrote:I dunno if you remember but in 3rd ( a little bit) and 4th( a bit more) there where allready rules for allies in certain codexes...

And nobody found it strange at the time, it was even customary, people found it stranger when they got the Allies rules out of said codexes with 5th.

Now we get them back and people arn't still satisfied...,man do players are an ungratefull bunch...

Restrictions?, there allready is in some sens, that you can only take 1 of each slot in allies, and i can bet that there will be ruling that will prevent army's to get benefits from their allies global rules, like FoC modifications and stuff.

Now if you really don't like allies in your army, and don't want to play against someone who does use them, you can always houserule it into a "solo" army encounter, juste speak with the damn guy who is siting next/infront of you...S P E A K I N G ..., you now the thing normal human beings does...well generaly.

Sure some codices had allies, their codices were balanced for it. Not every codex currently out was made with allies in mind.

I played in 2nd, no one liked allies. And I don't know who wanted them back, because no one I know wants allies back. Removal of Allies was the best thing warhammer ever did.

Also it's always good to pull the "houserule" card out, but this isn't debating FW model use. Allies is now in the core rules, it would be a dick move to ask someone to not use a valid army list. I for one am not a dick that would complain about people following core rules of the game.

Now sit down and shut up, because you really need to calm down.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:I must say that I am not a fan of most of the stuff I have read. Allies is just a pain in the butt if you ask me. (maybe a marketing thing for GW I am guessing, selling more models) I have never really used Psykers at all and this whole random thing is going to make sure I don't pick up any. I am also not a fan of the idea of purchasing terrain for you army.(another money making scheme for GW, buy our cool terrain that you can add to your army now) I thought soliders were supposed to adapt to there suroundings? Random terrrain? really? Seems like assault based armies are pretty much going to be few and far between. Random charges? Really? Seems like its back to 3rd with shooty army against shooty army. Granted there will be more moving then I saw in 3rd. I really hate the front to back wounds. That is so lame on sooooo many levels. To take something that worked like we had in 5th( minus the multi plasma hits problem) and to make it so lame as to do this. It just makes me alittle sad inside. I can honestly say that I am actually depressed from this. I will look into 6th ed when it comes out, but I am not thrilled about what I am hearing.

I concur. I'm just disappointed that they haven't taken the opportunity to clarify the rules and reduce the room for ambiguity in future - instead of just bolting on a few new features added transparently to sell more models (allies, flyers, psykers). Sure GW do make their rules to sell models, but there's no reason why they can't be structured properly too.

True story... a few of us at our local club have recently gotten back into Epic, using the 'new' Armageddon rules. After 2-3 games we found that we were double checking the rules far less than in a normal 40k game, despite playing 40k basically every week for years. That's because E:A is a great example of how to streamline a rules system without losing game depth. Most USR's are in the main rulebook where everyone can learn them, and any army special rules apply to a whole army rather than individual units. It really helps to make the game more enjoyable when you don't need to stop to check the exact phrasing of special rules that only apply to one unit you've never seen before, then argue over which ambiguous rule takes priority.

Question here for someone in the know (not related to any of the ongoing conversations from the last few pages):

I didn't see anything in the summary about how the psychic cards are going to work, and I didn't think asking about it warranted a whole new thread. Anyway, my question is: Will we be forced to buy the pack of cards, or are all the "universal" psychic powers included in the rulebook?

We now return you to your scheduled programming...

It looks like all the powers will be in the rulebook, the cards are just for reference.

Although I actually want the cards as 8 quid isn't that bad, they look cool, and shuffling and dealing out what psychic powers you use sounds better than rolling for them.

Interestingly, haven't heard anything about Heavy Vehicles (ala the Monolith), which I remember some people were hoping to see in 6th...

Therion wrote:

I am going to guess possibly that this DOES work...as it would explain the cost of the doom scythe a bit more.

Snap fire with both the death ray and the tesla destructor is just so ridiculous It's like those guns were designed to be snap fired. There's either no penalty (death ray) or only a minor penalty (twin-linked tesla) for having BS1.

Agreed. I think that will be huge.
Necrons seem to be benefitting a lot from these rumours, which may not be good considering they were well balanced in 5th.

wuestenfux wrote:

Lukus83 wrote:TBH I'm trying my best not to get worked up in any way about the rumours. Not that I don't love hearing them and how the changes will affect the game, I do. But equally drawing conclusions from a rule (or rules) which may or may not be 100% accurate and are looked at in a total vacuum seems like a pretty pointless exercise.

That said though I am off tonight to get my advance-order in a day early.

Thanks to Kroot for the thread.

That's actually a good way to deal with this. Speculations and drawing conclusion from a rumored rule set are a waste of time. This is why I'm not following this thread ... *cough* *cough*

I disagree.
They may be rumours but - particularly considering their source(s) - they can be very accurate. So long as you don't go too far in the conclusions you draw (such as claiming to shelve your army or that X unit/rule is broken), I don't think reading & drawing conclusions is a waste of time at all.

It is a waste of time if you have the willpower to wait the grand total of seven days and read the book in the flesh.

Just Dave wrote:Interestingly, haven't heard anything about Heavy Vehicles (ala the Monolith), which I remember some people were hoping to see in 6th...

I never got the hype about that at all. Heavy is defined in the Codex, why would it herald in some great new change ( )?

I just read that right, every psyker in the Tyranid book will be able to take powers up to the amount they have/ can purchase?
so lets have look see shall we:
hive tyrant = 2 rolls
tervigon = 3 rolls (if i read correctly of course)
brood lord = 2 rolls
zoanthrope = 2 rolls
swarm lord = 4 rolls
that's right? well if i want to pretty much get the psychic power version of magical-wonder-grenades (grey knights) i will simple take 2 tervigon, 2 flyrant, 3 broodlords and a brood of zoanthrope ? that's 22 rolls for that table? i don't mind this here's hoping that there will be a movement base effect / terrain doesn't reduce my I anymore as it would make me start my tyranids back up, and if the allies are logical ( i know i shouldn't get my hopes up ) I'll be able to use a detachment of imperial guard as cultist for genestealers as i play a reverse heavy list representing the hive fleet landing on the planet?

Also i found one problem with allies, know every one will simply take a GK terminator squad + an inquisitor with MAGICAL-WONDER-GRENADES....I'm scared =P.

wuestenfux wrote:

CorvidMP wrote:

wuestenfux wrote: Tau and Nids as allies - hardly imaginable.

Seriously, I'm wondering If this is why necrons suddenly got all personable (and teamed up with the BA ). Ward may have actually been directed to write stories like this in his codexes to pave the way for new allies rules in the fluff.

Granted it might imply alot of foresight on the part of GW, but I gotta imagine that the problem of the high buy in cost for second armies had to have occured to the brass a while back. Ally rules as a way of helping fix this problem w thier buisness plan coulda been one of the first ideas for 6th.

In fact, the allies rule could become profitable for GW. Instead of affording a whole new army, you only need a detachment of unit (flyers all the way).

I actually have a GK HQ beautifully painted and converted by a bud of mine (he painted it etc as part of a swap, cause at the time my painting sucked), along with a unit of the old metal grey knights, and an assassin I bougt to ally up w my Black Templars. Due to a deployment followed by a trip to the police accademy I never even finished assembling them, let alone got the chance to field them before they erata'd the alliance rules out of the old dex.
The alliance rules may actually have me going out to buy a box or two of GK so I can finally have my Black Templars crusade that worked for/with the inquisition that I always wanted. Kinda excited really, as I greatly enjoyed the idea.

oldone wrote:I just read that right, every psyker in the Tyranid book will be able to take powers up to the amount they have/ can purchase?
so lets have look see shall we:
hive tyrant = 2 rolls
tervigon = 3 rolls (if i read correctly of course)
brood lord = 2 rolls
zoanthrope = 2 rolls
swarm lord = 4 rolls
that's right? well if i want to pretty much get the psychic power version of magical-wonder-grenades (grey knights) i will simple take 2 tervigon, 2 flyrant, 3 broodlords and a brood of zoanthrope ? that's 22 rolls for that table? i don't mind this here's hoping that there will be a movement base effect / terrain doesn't reduce my I anymore as it would make me start my tyranids back up, and if the allies are logical ( i know i shouldn't get my hopes up ) I'll be able to use a detachment of imperial guard as cultist for genestealers as i play a reverse heavy list representing the hive fleet landing on the planet?

Also i found one problem with allies, know every one will simply take a GK terminator squad + an inquisitor with MAGICAL-WONDER-GRENADES....I'm scared =P.

Sounds about right on psychics. But you do not gain these new powers, you replace all of your current ones. Note that for the Tervigon, you'd have to buy Catalyst and Onslaught before swapping them out.

No allies at all for Tyranids apparently.

And yes, all kinds of cheese can be expected from the rumoured ally rules.

That why i said logical because of the genestealer cults but its simply people basing the idea that tyranids can't have allies because of the double tournament pack that came out a few weeks ago and I'm sure as its really only friendly games i play now i could ask my opponent very nicely =P. As your avatar is dark eldar i just thought of something, what is the fething point to flicker fields now?

oldone wrote:I just read that right, every psyker in the Tyranid book will be able to take powers up to the amount they have/ can purchase?
so lets have look see shall we:
hive tyrant = 2 rolls
tervigon = 3 rolls (if i read correctly of course)
brood lord = 2 rolls
zoanthrope = 2 rolls
swarm lord = 4 rolls
that's right? well if i want to pretty much get the psychic power version of magical-wonder-grenades (grey knights) i will simple take 2 tervigon, 2 flyrant, 3 broodlords and a brood of zoanthrope ? that's 22 rolls for that table? i don't mind this here's hoping that there will be a movement base effect / terrain doesn't reduce my I anymore as it would make me start my tyranids back up, and if the allies are logical ( i know i shouldn't get my hopes up ) I'll be able to use a detachment of imperial guard as cultist for genestealers as i play a reverse heavy list representing the hive fleet landing on the planet?.

If you can replace some of your powers that could be rather powerful for Zoanthropes / Swarmlord. I never use Psychic Scream, The Horror and very rarely use Warp Blast. Replacing those with some of the nastier lores should be amusing. Especially if Zoanthropes get to roll individually...

oldone wrote:As your avatar is dark eldar i just thought of something, what is the fething point to flicker fields now?

Yeah, good question. The rumoured "jink" save is a cover save though, so some things might ignore them (Hydras for example, but possibly all guns with the new Skyfire rule). And flicker fields could still work in CC.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mandor wrote:Short summary on generating psychic powers:

* For each eligible psyker, you may chose to either use your codex powers or replace all of them with rulebook powers;
* You get a fixed number of random powers from disciplines available to your army;
* You may chose the discipline for every power you generate (aka for each roll).

Number of powers generated
Two powers: Librarian (Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Marines, Space Wolves), Primaris Psyker, Coteaz, Ezekiel, Mephiston, Njal, Typhus
Three powers: Ahriman, Tigurius
Four powers: Eldrad
Equal to mastery level: Librarian (Grey Knights), Inquisitors (Grey Knights)
Equal to number of purchased powers in codex: Chaos Space Marines (any psyker), Farseer
Equal to number of powers in codex (including purchased powers): Tyranids (any psyker)

xttz wrote:If you can replace some of your powers that could be rather powerful for Zoanthropes / Swarmlord. I never use Psychic Scream, The Horror and very rarely use Warp Blast. Replacing those with some of the nastier lores should be amusing. Especially if Zoanthropes get to roll individually...

You can choose per psyker to keep your powers or replace them with rulebook powers. But if you replace them, you replace all of them.

Mandor wrote:

oldone wrote:As your avatar is dark eldar i just thought of something, what is the fething point to flicker fields now?

Yeah, good question. The rumoured "jink" save is a cover save though, so some things might ignore them (Hydras for example, but possibly all guns with the new Skyfire rule). And flicker fields could still work in CC.

Good point, i was thinking if it is just and ++5 for combat its not worth the ten points but with every and their mothers now having access to hydras and skyfire its probably still going to be needed =/

and i did forget one the Doom which i think will be a brilliant choice this edition as cover saves are going down, vehicles by the looks of things are getting worse and he can get a power that doesn't kill him as he is a psyker. =D

oldone wrote:and i did forget one the Doom which i think will be a brilliant choice this edition as cover saves are going down, vehicles by the looks of things are getting worse and he can get a power that doesn't kill him as he is a psyker. =D

Also, we don't know much (or rather anything) about transports/transported units yet.

Dantalian wrote:I played in 2nd, no one liked allies.

My experience was apparently quite different to yours. Imperial Agents were very popular throughout 2nd edition, and many other armies incorporated allies while people built up 2nd armies or when they wanted to play something a little larger than they had a single force for.

Also I have noticed that the new psychic powers have a variable warp-charge cost to them; I'm assuming that this is similar to the old force-card mechanic back in 2nd edition where powers had a "cost" to cast.

So, anyone know how this would work? Is it based off of psychic mastery level or will it be some sort of power-pool/dice pool like for WHF?

insaniak wrote:

Dantalian wrote:I played in 2nd, no one liked allies.

My experience was apparently quite different to yours. Imperial Agents were very popular throughout 2nd edition, and many other armies incorporated allies while people built up 2nd armies or when they wanted to play something a little larger than they had a single force for.

Yeah, ditto here. I loved the ability to bring in other units when something new and cool came out. I had several Eldar units that battled alongside my brother's Space Marine forces.

I'm also super psyched that this allies rule brings daemons back to Chaos Space Marine forces. Add in some all=plastic Thousand Sons and I am starting a Tzeentchian army tomorrow!

SaintTom wrote:

LakotaWolf wrote:I dont see why Space Wolves dont get pyromancy..........with the chaoticness of their weather and there love for the elements I can see them having fun throwing a fireball up someones arse

It's because they're the winter/snow/ice/crushing ice cold waves of water kinda people.

Salamanders are the pyros, we all know that.

Also, the codex powers are already loaded with blasting powers. When you have Jaws, Living Lightning, and Muderous Hurricane, who needs more offensive powers. What the list was missing was the utility that buffs your block of Grey Hunters or Long Fangs, particularly powers that can be used in you opponent's turn. I can't imagine I'll part with the Codex lore, but you never know.

Scottywan82 wrote:

insaniak wrote:

Dantalian wrote:I played in 2nd, no one liked allies.

My experience was apparently quite different to yours. Imperial Agents were very popular throughout 2nd edition, and many other armies incorporated allies while people built up 2nd armies or when they wanted to play something a little larger than they had a single force for.

Yeah, ditto here. I loved the ability to bring in other units when something new and cool came out. I had several Eldar units that battled alongside my brother's Space Marine forces.

I'm also super psyched that this allies rule brings daemons back to Chaos Space Marine forces. Add in some all=plastic Thousand Sons and I am starting a Tzeentchian army tomorrow!

This is what I'm most psyched for. My Word Bearers can get lots of new daemons, and I can start my Death Guard and get GUOs and Plaguebearers!

Cerebrium wrote:

Scottywan82 wrote:

insaniak wrote:

Dantalian wrote:I played in 2nd, no one liked allies.

My experience was apparently quite different to yours. Imperial Agents were very popular throughout 2nd edition, and many other armies incorporated allies while people built up 2nd armies or when they wanted to play something a little larger than they had a single force for.

Yeah, ditto here. I loved the ability to bring in other units when something new and cool came out. I had several Eldar units that battled alongside my brother's Space Marine forces.

I'm also super psyched that this allies rule brings daemons back to Chaos Space Marine forces. Add in some all=plastic Thousand Sons and I am starting a Tzeentchian army tomorrow!

This is what I'm most psyched for. My Word Bearers can get lots of new daemons, and I can start my Death Guard and get GUOs and Plaguebearers!

However, there then is the problem with allies apparently being unlikely to be allowed in tournaments, if that is your thing...

insaniak wrote:

Dantalian wrote:I played in 2nd, no one liked allies.

My experience was apparently quite different to yours. Imperial Agents were very popular throughout 2nd edition, and many other armies incorporated allies while people built up 2nd armies or when they wanted to play something a little larger than they had a single force for.

I guess it really depends who you played against back then.

There were a few guys that started taking all the most powerful characters from different books into their army, like a Harlequin Solitaire, etc, and then would do horrible things like cover the table in blind grenade markers to prevent any shooting and then absolutely decimate anything in CC that tried to come through the smoke with their uber-characters.

In general, I think ally rules are a terrible reason because of the way that GW updates their codexes one at a time over many years you never know what horrific combination will be found (and you know the designers won't find it) and once it happens we're then all stuck with it for many, many years. If they were doing something crazy like putting out all their codexes at the same time (not that I think that is actually a good idea either) then having an allies rule could totally work, but I'm skeptical about any kind of ally rule working well now.

But we shall see what kind of restrictions are in place to hopefully make this rule work. As always, I hope for the best.

Just Dave wrote:

Cerebrium wrote:

Scottywan82 wrote:

insaniak wrote:

Dantalian wrote:I played in 2nd, no one liked allies.

My experience was apparently quite different to yours. Imperial Agents were very popular throughout 2nd edition, and many other armies incorporated allies while people built up 2nd armies or when they wanted to play something a little larger than they had a single force for.

Yeah, ditto here. I loved the ability to bring in other units when something new and cool came out. I had several Eldar units that battled alongside my brother's Space Marine forces.

I'm also super psyched that this allies rule brings daemons back to Chaos Space Marine forces. Add in some all=plastic Thousand Sons and I am starting a Tzeentchian army tomorrow!

This is what I'm most psyched for. My Word Bearers can get lots of new daemons, and I can start my Death Guard and get GUOs and Plaguebearers!

However, there then is the problem with allies apparently being unlikely to be allowed in tournaments, if that is your thing...

I don't do tournaments, so moot point for me.

I must admit - I do like alot of things that have been mentioned on the first page - it does seem to be coming back to that of the earlier editions some of which I remember fondly.

Looking forward to Allies myself - good fluff /story potential and as I collect all armies can mix and match stuff

Do like the Challenge rules - very fitting for the 40K fluff

Given the seeming importance of Psykers (which I am ambilvant about as its one of things that has driven me away from WFB) not sure how Tau work.

So is premeasuring in ? crossed fingers it is

Will likely get the collectors edition and wait for the mini rulebook in the boxed set again for actual gaming

infinite_array wrote:There are three categories of allies. Lots of potential, I am not sure of the chart off the top of my head. CSM do get traitor guard, I also believe Demons. Tau have SM and Eldar. Lots of other arrangements. Tyranids get no one....but lots of Monstrous creature special rules added for their pleasure. Stomp, Impact Hits etc.

This is my sad face.

No cults for me. No Orks with their caged Tyranid pit beasts to unleash for me.

Impact hits could be interesting though. Now if ID rules have changed... then Tyranids got a whole lot more going for them.

Had a flick through, most of the info from the magazine has been mentioned.

But I also noticed :

Troops are the scoring units, still. However it seems that in some ( ?) of the scenarios they aren't the only scoring units. The " The big guns never tire" ( IIRC) scenario heavy choices -- " even vehicles/tanks" -- heavy choices are also scoring. In another mission fast attack units count as scoring as well, but there's a KP related drawback to them.

Deep striking mishaps occur to the demon player, no indication that this is unique to them -- although demons do cause fear apparently ( which leads one to wonder if units that have recently been classified as daemonic in recent codices will also cause fear ? BIt of a possible boost for the Avatar perhaps ?). In the report this results in the units being placed by the IMperial player.

Advanced ordered my copy. Managed to get a sneak viewing of the rule book also. Acute senses is now a re-roll to outflanking. Tons of USRs now...I mean pages and pages. Didn't get the chance to read more, but I did see 2 vector strike type rules. Hatred is in there also.

Cypher's Sword wrote:

Testify wrote:

xttz wrote:

Cypher's Sword wrote:

xttz wrote:All this bitching about who gets what psychic powers is silly. Not only do the new rules still allow you to use your old 'fluffy' powers from the codex, but we also know that any new codex will come written with the new system in mind. An Eldar revamp can't be *that* far away, and I have no doubt they'll get more than enough powers to make them FOTM again.

In other news, has anyone seen any recent details on changes to Instant Death? This has been the subject of many previous rumours, and my 'nids will cry if this edition still doesn't let them beat grey knights.

what ARE the changes to instant death xttz? please tell.

I'm asking if anyone has seen any changes to ID from the myriad of different rumour threads this week. It's very possible I missed something skipping through 40+ pages of random notes!

Pretty sure the rumour mill is saying that ID causes an additional wound for every point above double strength.
For example, Strength 8 vs T4 will cause 2 wounds, Strength 9 vs T4 will cause 3 wounds, etc.

OMG if thats true then my eldar ACTUALLY HAVE A CHANCE!

Well, the Doom of Malantai looks even more absurdly powerful now.

And when do the rules really come out so we can stop all this speculation? Tomorrow?
So far things sound good in 6th. I too look forward to rolling my CSM lesser demons back over into Plague bearers along with my greater demon into a Greater Unclean One. Ready made allies, all i have to do is buy the codex.
Not a bad thing... unless you consider the buff that crons are getting. Here is to hoping the new CSM dex is bad ass.

2 weeks time. Pre-orders start tomorrow.

Cerebrium wrote:2 weeks time. Pre-orders start tomorrow.

I thought they're out the 30th, so in one week's time.

I'm not sure, I've heard either.

It's 1 week out. June. 30 is actual release day.

Pages and pages of new USRs, eh? Looks like a FAQ dump will come along giving sky fire, hatred, and other USRs to existing codices.

tetrisphreak wrote:It's 1 week out. June. 30 is actual release day.

Pages and pages of new USRs, eh? Looks like a FAQ dump will come along giving sky fire, hatred, and other USRs to existing codices.

Don't forget psychic mastery levels to make psykers all work the same.

It looked like they had dumped pretty much every special rule in that section, including weapon types (melta, etc) and even ones that are vehicle related.

Vehicle bane and Infantry bane were 2 new ones: Vehicle bane is 2D6 penetration. Infantry bane was wound on 2+.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ooh, I just recalled another: Missile lock. Scatter for blasts is a flat out 2D6, but missile lock reduces this to a simple D6.

And I think I'm out. Probably won't get the chance to see the book till it's release now. But at least in the meantime I get to assemble lots of Scythes and Wraiths. Today has been productive.

Lukus83 wrote:It looked like they had dumped pretty much every special rule in that section, including weapon types (melta, etc) and even ones that are vehicle related.

Vehicle bane and Infantry bane were 2 new ones: Vehicle bane is 2D6 penetration. Infantry bane was wound on 2+.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ooh, I just recalled another: Missile lock. Scatter for blasts is a flat out 2D6, but missile lock reduces this to a simple D6.

And I think I'm out. Probably won't get the chance to see the book till it's release now. But at least in the meantime I get to assemble lots of Scythes and Wraiths. Today has been productive.

Thanks for the insights, Lukus. Blasts don't get a BS reduction, interesting.

broodstar wrote:In fluff, Tau and Tyranids absolutely hate eachother.

The Tyranid don't 'hate' anyone. They're just hungry.

warpcrafter wrote:Besides, YOU start fights on Dakka all the time.

Pfft! I finish fights.

(/Internet Tough Guy)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Scottywan82 wrote:

insaniak wrote:

Dantalian wrote:I played in 2nd, no one liked allies.

My experience was apparently quite different to yours. Imperial Agents were very popular throughout 2nd edition, and many other armies incorporated allies while people built up 2nd armies or when they wanted to play something a little larger than they had a single force for.

Yeah, ditto here. I loved the ability to bring in other units when something new and cool came out. I had several Eldar units that battled alongside my brother's Space Marine forces.

My Guard army was led by an Inquisitor Lord for as long as I can remember. The Allies rules in 2nd Ed were fun. But let's not kid ourselves about them being balanced. They weren't, as an army's deficiencies could eliminated by taking units from other books. The Daemonhunter/Witch Hunter allies rules weren't balanced either, and these 6th Ed ones won't be at all.

Hey just had a thought regarding vehicle damage tables: as there is no glancing hit dice, what if glances don't roll on the chart? What if they just remove a hull point?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

broodstar wrote:In fluff, Tau and Tyranids absolutely hate eachother.

The Tyranid don't 'hate' anyone. They're just hungry.

warpcrafter wrote:Besides, YOU start fights on Dakka all the time.

Pfft! I finish fights.

(/Internet Tough Guy)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Scottywan82 wrote:

insaniak wrote:

Dantalian wrote:I played in 2nd, no one liked allies.

My experience was apparently quite different to yours. Imperial Agents were very popular throughout 2nd edition, and many other armies incorporated allies while people built up 2nd armies or when they wanted to play something a little larger than they had a single force for.

Yeah, ditto here. I loved the ability to bring in other units when something new and cool came out. I had several Eldar units that battled alongside my brother's Space Marine forces.

My Guard army was led by an Inquisitor Lord for as long as I can remember. The Allies rules in 2nd Ed were fun. But let's not kid ourselves about them being balanced. They weren't, as an army's deficiencies could eliminated by taking units from other books. The Daemonhunter/Witch Hunter allies rules weren't balanced either, and these 6th Ed ones won't be at all.

A ha! If every army shores up weaknesses then don't you think that makes everyone competitive or balanced? I do

H.B.M.C. wrote:

broodstar wrote:In fluff, Tau and Tyranids absolutely hate eachother.

The Tyranid don't 'hate' anyone. They're just hungry.

Whether Tyranid have the capacity for emotion doesn't matter.

The point is they arn't exactly buddies.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
My Guard army was led by an Inquisitor Lord for as long as I can remember. The Allies rules in 2nd Ed were fun. But let's not kid ourselves about them being balanced. They weren't, as an army's deficiencies could eliminated by taking units from other books. The Daemonhunter/Witch Hunter allies rules weren't balanced either, and these 6th Ed ones won't be at all.

Thanks, this pretty much sums up my feelings. It doesn't add any balance to the game, it just makes it bland in my opinion.

What if they just remove a hull point?

That's possible because we've heard from the rumours that Gauss weapons remove a hull point on a to penetrate roll of 6. That might completely supercede the 'glancing hit on a roll of 6' from the codex. Now if that was the case then we need to know what happens when you're reduced to zero hull points. Does the tank get destroyed automatically, or does every glance count as a penetrating hit afterwards, or what? This could also mean that guys like NIB were right and that every weapon with worse AP than 3 can only glance. However like I said we don't know if that's necessarily a bad thing at all, or how bad thing it is.

We've also heard the term critical hit being used. I could speculate that we no longer have glances and penetrating hits but hits and critical hits. A critical hit rolls on the chart to see what happens and a hit just removes a hull point. When hull points are gone everything is a critical. Makes sense?

Any idea if the wound allocation has been changed?

I'm trying to think of ways the rules could help my lovely bugs out, i thinking if instant death, vehicle damage chart and assaulting through terrain change that will make bugs a some what competitive book =)
Also just had a thought, do you think you be able to overwatch and counter charge? or will it be a one or the other type thing but you can chose?

oldone wrote:I'm trying to think of ways the rules could help my lovely bugs out, i thinking if instant death, vehicle damage chart and assaulting through terrain change that will make bugs a some what competitive book =)
Also just had a thought, do you think you be able to overwatch and counter charge? or will it be a one or the other type thing but you can chose?

The foreboding psychic power does exactly that - it gives over watch (at normal bs) plus counter attack. Makes the enemy think twice before charging in.

oldone wrote:I'm trying to think of ways the rules could help my lovely bugs out, i thinking if instant death, vehicle damage chart and assaulting through terrain change that will make bugs a some what competitive book =)
Also just had a thought, do you think you be able to overwatch and counter charge? or will it be a one or the other type thing but you can chose?

I'd guess you can do both. 10 Grey Hunters first shoot the Stealers 20 times with their boltguns and kill 0.83 models, then they counter-charge and if they're in cover they strike first. Overwatch isn't as big deal as people are making it out to be. BS1 and squad sizes traditionally being quite small makes it a cinematic addition to the game that in vast mast majority of the cases won't decide the outcome of the following assault.

Byte wrote:KrootHawk- This is the best 6th edition rumor thread ever! One stop shop. Well done!

So far I'm liking it very much. At least we aren't hearing, O it's dumbed down, beer and pretzels, marketing for 9 year olds...

From the rumors I suspect GW has really step up the "gaming" side of 40K.

I'm in!

I feel the complete opposite. All of these rumours seem geared thus far to toning down the "game" elements and toning up the RPG elements and adding more randomness and more "cinematic" events as well as the usual pendulum wing of "flog what didn't sell laste dition by making it better now."

The more I read the more I dislike these rules and this is the first rule set I have ever felt that way regarding.

tetrisphreak wrote:

oldone wrote:I'm trying to think of ways the rules could help my lovely bugs out, i thinking if instant death, vehicle damage chart and assaulting through terrain change that will make bugs a some what competitive book =)
Also just had a thought, do you think you be able to overwatch and counter charge? or will it be a one or the other type thing but you can chose?

The foreboding psychic power does exactly that - it gives over watch (at normal bs) plus counter attack. Makes the enemy think twice before charging in.

And suddenly, Termagants become even scarier.

Gonna have to model an entire brood flicking the bird to swap out for those moments...maybe with a Tervigon rubbing its claws ala Dastardly and Muttley....

yeah it was more for the hope i would be counter charged by by Friends space wolves as much =P

tetrisphreak wrote:

oldone wrote:I'm trying to think of ways the rules could help my lovely bugs out, i thinking if instant death, vehicle damage chart and assaulting through terrain change that will make bugs a some what competitive book =)
Also just had a thought, do you think you be able to overwatch and counter charge? or will it be a one or the other type thing but you can chose?

The foreboding psychic power does exactly that - it gives over watch (at normal bs) plus counter attack. Makes the enemy think twice before charging in.

Bad news for bugs ...

Now good news for bugs

Tyrants flying 24" and doing sweep attacks

Double ws hit on 5s, triple hit on 6s. Paroxysm = hit gaunts on 6s

With preferred enemy bs3 hits on 3s, bs4 hits on 2s.

Brood lords might have access to new psychic powers

Here is a crazy ally thought.

Imagine Eldrad and a few buddies hanging out with GK Paladins..... Fortune and Doom FTW.....



Oh and on another note. I spoke with the owner of my FLGS last night. They are a partner lvl store and were told they can't put in the stores pre-order till Monday, does this sound right to anyone else?

If snap fire rules are true for flamers....3 auto hits...burna boyz are going to have a couple nice choices to make when they're charged...

15 burna boyz = 45 auto hits

or go with power weapon attacks at ap 3

sounds like da boyz have a counter for purifying flame

Does no one read the rules in the various Codices these days? Fortune doesn't work with anything that isn't an Eldar unit, so that's not going to happen.

ladz, random one, anyone informed what time the preorder goes up on GW website ? is that 12.00 tonight or some point tomorrow?

Therion wrote:

What if they just remove a hull point?

That's possible because we've heard from the rumours that Gauss weapons remove a hull point on a to penetrate roll of 6. That might completely supercede the 'glancing hit on a roll of 6' from the codex. Now if that was the case then we need to know what happens when you're reduced to zero hull points. Does the tank get destroyed automatically, or does every glance count as a penetrating hit afterwards, or what? This could also mean that guys like NIB were right and that every weapon with worse AP than 3 can only glance. However like I said we don't know if that's necessarily a bad thing at all, or how bad thing it is.

We've also heard the term critical hit being used. I could speculate that we no longer have glances and penetrating hits but hits and critical hits. A critical hit rolls on the chart to see what happens and a hit just removes a hull point. When hull points are gone everything is a critical. Makes sense?

Makes so much sense it is probably better than the actual rules!

hell so long as all the new rules help mitigate one of the things in this game i dislike.... seeing who will win at the army list stage, randomness may help this a little.


Allies will be great too as i can include some SW stuff (grey hunters and maybe a wolflord) in my DA army, just no aliens of any kind though (this includes the stupid thunderwolves) or abhumans

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Does no one read the rules in the various Codices these days? Fortune doesn't work with anything that isn't an Eldar unit, so that's not going to happen.

yea...but think about Dooming something that your Draigo wing is about to hit......

drorain wrote:If snap fire rules are true for flamers....3 auto hits...burna boyz are going to have a couple nice choices to make when they're charged...

15 burna boyz = 45 auto hits

or go with power weapon attacks at ap 3

sounds like da boyz have a counter for purifying flame

Not 3. d3.

god.ra wrote:ladz, random one, anyone informed what time the preorder goes up on GW website ? is that 12.00 tonight or some point tomorrow?

Good question

Some people were mentioning that their local GW's are staying open til after midnight, so it might mean they go up on the website then too. I have no idea when they put their normal preorders up so I'm going to check at midnight and if it isn't up around then I'll force myself to wake up a 7 on a Saturday to try again then

Why is everybody complaining? IF yOu don't like allies, don't take them. simple as that.

Find it odd that assault marines get an impact hit when assaulting. But I suppose it sorta make sense (DOW2 fell hammer mine mission comes to mind).

TechMarine1 wrote:Why is everybody complaining? IF yOu don't like allies, don't take them. simple as that.

Find it odd that assault marines get an impact hit when assaulting. But I suppose it sorta make sense (DOW2 fell hammer mine mission comes to mind).

In the 5th rules, the description for jump infantry states they traverse the last yards of an assault on foot. I guess worldwide doctrines realized that they can just crash in from the sky when going into combat, which would explain the I10 impact hits.

Gorechild wrote:

god.ra wrote:ladz, random one, anyone informed what time the preorder goes up on GW website ? is that 12.00 tonight or some point tomorrow?

Good question

Some people were mentioning that their local GW's are staying open til after midnight, so it might mean they go up on the website then too. I have no idea when they put their normal preorders up so I'm going to check at midnight and if it isn't up around then I'll force myself to wake up a 7 on a Saturday to try again then

Same here, ... only 4000 Collectors edition in stock , they are going to disappear from GW preorders web like hot cakes, need to get myself Collectors and Gamers edition btw funny number 4000 for collectors, well assuming that 40000 would not be called collectors then

Thamor wrote:Any idea if the wound allocation has been changed?

Kroothawk wrote:

Wound Allocation is closest to furthest.

Cerebrium wrote:

Scottywan82 wrote:

insaniak wrote:

Dantalian wrote:I played in 2nd, no one liked allies.

My experience was apparently quite different to yours. Imperial Agents were very popular throughout 2nd edition, and many other armies incorporated allies while people built up 2nd armies or when they wanted to play something a little larger than they had a single force for.

Yeah, ditto here. I loved the ability to bring in other units when something new and cool came out. I had several Eldar units that battled alongside my brother's Space Marine forces.

I'm also super psyched that this allies rule brings daemons back to Chaos Space Marine forces. Add in some all=plastic Thousand Sons and I am starting a Tzeentchian army tomorrow!

This is what I'm most psyched for. My Word Bearers can get lots of new daemons, and I can start my Death Guard and get GUOs and Plaguebearers!

I play mono nurgle and I'm hoping they FAQ the tallyman.. not that I'd complain about wound on 2+ ignore armor saves bolter fire.. but I'm sure other might have something to say.. lol

insaniak wrote:

Lovepug13 wrote:My Orks will be packed away as well....... till we see a codex in 2014

The rumours so far are pushing me entirely the other way... It looks like it might be time to dust the Boyz off again!

No more wound allocation making it take two and a half hours to resolve damage against Nobz? Yay!
2/3D6 charge with free I10 attacks? Stormboyz say Yes, please!
Battlewagons, Dredds and Trukks still shooting (at a BS that's only marginally worse than what they started with anyway?) while stunned? Woot, I say!
Defensive Burna attacks? Oh yes, indeedy!

I'm changing the marker on the 'Today's 40K Excitement Rating' sign from 'Apathetic' to 'WAAAGH!!!'

the only thing i would change in these is Kroot gun assult 2 18"
but otherwise think it would make tau very good and fun again

xttz wrote:

balsak_da_mighty wrote:I must say that I am not a fan of most of the stuff I have read. Allies is just a pain in the butt if you ask me. (maybe a marketing thing for GW I am guessing, selling more models) I have never really used Psykers at all and this whole random thing is going to make sure I don't pick up any. I am also not a fan of the idea of purchasing terrain for you army.(another money making scheme for GW, buy our cool terrain that you can add to your army now) I thought soliders were supposed to adapt to there suroundings? Random terrrain? really? Seems like assault based armies are pretty much going to be few and far between. Random charges? Really? Seems like its back to 3rd with shooty army against shooty army. Granted there will be more moving then I saw in 3rd. I really hate the front to back wounds. That is so lame on sooooo many levels. To take something that worked like we had in 5th( minus the multi plasma hits problem) and to make it so lame as to do this. It just makes me alittle sad inside. I can honestly say that I am actually depressed from this. I will look into 6th ed when it comes out, but I am not thrilled about what I am hearing.

I concur. I'm just disappointed that they haven't taken the opportunity to clarify the rules and reduce the room for ambiguity in future - instead of just bolting on a few new features added transparently to sell more models (allies, flyers, psykers). Sure GW do make their rules to sell models, but there's no reason why they can't be structured properly too.

True story... a few of us at our local club have recently gotten back into Epic, using the 'new' Armageddon rules. After 2-3 games we found that we were double checking the rules far less than in a normal 40k game, despite playing 40k basically every week for years. That's because E:A is a great example of how to streamline a rules system without losing game depth. Most USR's are in the main rulebook where everyone can learn them, and any army special rules apply to a whole army rather than individual units. It really helps to make the game more enjoyable when you don't need to stop to check the exact phrasing of special rules that only apply to one unit you've never seen before, then argue over which ambiguous rule takes priority.

I like a lot of things that I hear. However, I agree with you that the biggest changes are mostly bolt-on additions, and that they missed an opportunity to clean up and repair the rust on some of the game's core mechanics. But that's the reality with their core games...they have too many constraints on them, and GW isn't going to roll the dice (so to speak) by doing a sweeping overhaul of its biggest cash cow. The pancake edition showed the designers are capable of making repairs...they just aren't interested in actually making them due to business reasons.

It's not an accident that their non-core games tend to be much better written games. They don't have all the baggage and financial considerations.

Testify wrote:

pretre wrote:Snapshot is supposedly different than the fire at people while they are charging fire.

Snapshot allows heavy weapons to shoot at BS1 if they've moved. Stand and fire is...stand and fire.

Possibly one of the few things my ork army likes in the new rules, my lootas can now run on from reserves and fire their deffguns rather than spending a turn sticking their thumbs up their arse.

BS 1....oh no, that such a huge step down from BS 2, however will we cope.

Defensive shooting I'm abivalent about, it will hurt my shoota boyz when charging but will help them when they get charged and getting charged is a problem for ork boyz. Although the change to charge ranges and fleet is going to make it harder for them to charge overall.

Oh and removal from the front is crippling as it makes it MUCH harder to charge a unit you just shot and will pick out the nob who does most of the damage himself.

I don't know why GW decided that characters with special wargear/weapons need to be able to be picked out from the squad. They wrote a rule expressly disallowing it in 3rd and have taken steps to make it more and more likely as the game ahs developed. Why? I don't see what the benefit is except to make untis built around specific guys with wargear (tac squads, ork mobs, devastators, grey hunter packs, sisters of battle squads, guard veterans) much more fragile and borderline useless whereas guys where everyone is armed the same (necrons, grey knights, tau) much better. Did GK and Necrons need a bump?

tetrisphreak wrote:

Lukus83 wrote:It looked like they had dumped pretty much every special rule in that section, including weapon types (melta, etc) and even ones that are vehicle related.

Vehicle bane and Infantry bane were 2 new ones: Vehicle bane is 2D6 penetration. Infantry bane was wound on 2+.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ooh, I just recalled another: Missile lock. Scatter for blasts is a flat out 2D6, but missile lock reduces this to a simple D6.

And I think I'm out. Probably won't get the chance to see the book till it's release now. But at least in the meantime I get to assemble lots of Scythes and Wraiths. Today has been productive.

Thanks for the insights, Lukus. Blasts don't get a BS reduction, interesting.

I'm guessing we're back to rolling on BS to hit like normal weapons.

I dont think my guardsmen are ever going to charge anything ever again with defensive fire. Why charge and die before I get to swing when I could let myself get charged and get off another round of shooting, even if it is at BS1

darefsky wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Does no one read the rules in the various Codices these days? Fortune doesn't work with anything that isn't an Eldar unit, so that's not going to happen.

yea...but think about Dooming something that your Draigo wing is about to hit......

I was thinking about adding Fateweaver to a chaos space marine army.

If Rapid Fire can now be done on the move at full range, Fateweaver plus Thousand Sons might be extremely annoying. A slow plodding wall of AP3 death with 3+/4+ re-rollable saves.(As an aside, Fateweaver's ability says all friendly units. I am not familiar with the allies rules of old. Would this apply?)

dajobe wrote:I dont think my guardsmen are ever going to charge anything ever again with defensive fire. Why charge and die before I get to swing when I could let myself get charged and get off another round of shooting, even if it is at BS1

You charge things with guardsmen?

Leggy wrote:

dajobe wrote:I dont think my guardsmen are ever going to charge anything ever again with defensive fire. Why charge and die before I get to swing when I could let myself get charged and get off another round of shooting, even if it is at BS1

You make your guardsmen charge things? Why, did they day something mast about your mum?

It is not very common, but yes there are times where charging is more beneficial than firing a few lasguns and maybe 1 melta if the other SW died. It has to be the right circumstances but it does happen.
with defensive fire i think charging vet squads will be even less common.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Does no one read the rules in the various Codices these days? Fortune doesn't work with anything that isn't an Eldar unit, so that's not going to happen.

True so now the debate as to whether or not DE count as Eldar. They are still dark ELDAR afterall. I would love to doom and fortune some wyches. Along with ignoring AP1/2 and PW they will be nearly impossible to take out. Then give them hydras and hope for rerolls to hit from the drugs! So I reroll everything bad for me

As for the whole agoniser thing (gotta stop taking nights off from dakka). It still hurts DE in a huge way. An agoniser is a POWER WEAPON that wounds on a 4+ regardless of S and T. So unless they update it to be AP 2, I will hate terminators with a passion. So either I can not shoot at tanks and use my only AT guns on them to ignore armor, or I can devote all of my firepower that would normally go to devs/longfangs/havocs etc to hopefully killing a couple of termis? It's not like I can take a PF, or chain fist. (Crosses Fingers)...*please let PW be AP 2, please let PW be AP 2*

I've seen Guard blobs charge and beat down Deathwing. You'll find that 80+ attacks with about 10-15 power weapon attacks hidden within is frighteningly effective.

More allies shenanigans, specifically with the Space Wolves:

- Taking Assault Marines and Bikes from vanilla Marines instead of our useless Skyclaws and Swiftclaws.
- Furioso Dreadnoughts?


Regarding the ability to fire at BS1 when getting charged:

- Will Preferred Enemy allow rerolls? What about the Eldar psychic power Guide?
- Can I shoot and Counter Charge?
- Can psykers use a psychic shooting attack, ie: Living Lightning?

I dunno how I feel about the psychic powers. A part of me is going oh cool, that should be pretty sweet. I just don't like that some armies can't use them..at all. It also doesn't help that all of my armies don't like psykers (coincidence) meaning I won't even get a chance to try out the new powers and instead will have the pleasure of rolling my eyes every time my opponents shoot magic lasers at me.

Leggy wrote:
You charge things with guardsmen?

Powerblobs!

Brother SRM wrote:

Leggy wrote:
You charge things with guardsmen?

Powerblobs!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWp1RMLuySc

How it happens irl.

WHFB has tiers of trust for allies, I wouldn't count on buffs working on allied forces. It's not like we are going to see BA priests attached to Necron units giving scarabs /lychguard/praetorians / royal court death stars fc and FNP

What are the known ally rules? All I could see on the OP was that 1 HQ and 1 troops were required.

I strongly suspect that there will be limitations on exactly what you can take as an ally due to the gamesmanship that unrestricted access would allow.

My Deathguard are definately getting some cultists now though

As far as I have read the allies rules stood at a required 1 HQ and 1 Troop from your chosen force, which allowed access to an optional 1 elite, 1 fast attack and 1 heavy support. I'm curious as to how well it will work and to what level allies can interact with each others units but as of now I'm remaining cautiously optimistic.

MadCowCrazy wrote:Bah, gimme a sec and I will simply copy paste them here.

Thanks for posting up the summary

docbrown wrote:IIRC

Necrons used to be hurt by ap1/2 back in the day
now they dont care.

It seems wyches got the same kind of treatment.

I am assuming the idea is to balance everything out. Plasma/metla are now ignored by BA/DE/NIDS and are thus wasted. But in a TAC list we now have to consider termies being more prevalent so we still need low ap weapons.

I get the Idea but it realy hurts those armies. FNP not only kept troops alive but it forced your oppoenent to use big guns on little guys. Now my wyches wont attrach any heavy fire leaving my ravagers out to bear.

:pinches his nose: No, I think you guys are all missing the point. Marines are getting a buff from this. Plasma rounds are S7, so they don't ID them, but they used to be a viable option against BA and DG. Now it will take lascannons to drop marines with FNP, and though the rerollable odds of survival are worse than before (by about 1/6) they still have a 3+ armor save to rely on. DG are still T5, meaning that RAILGUNS are needed to drop them reliably.

Meanwhile, plasma still hurts Wyches just as much (due to T3, not to mention IG, but they're gaining everywhere else, so...) and S6 shots are just as horrible as ever. When we actually get saves vs shooting, it's only a 5+ instead of a 4+. This means that snap fire wounds are even more likely to kill Wyches before they can even fight, lowering the likelyhood of them doing any damage at all. Sure, we can actually make saves against all PW equipped units, and adding a 1/3 chance is better than what we had before, but we're still losing more models to normal units than before. This means that any given wych squad has about one good charge in them ever, since they can't multi charge anymore (doubled up snapfire AND losing the charge bonus?!?) If Wyches charge termies (a dubious prospect in 5th, now suicidal) they could count on killing at least one. Now they can't even manage that. If they charge marines with FNP, the Hekatrix looses punch as well (god forbid you needed to bog down that unit of DG. Both would just bounce off of each other. Now it's pointless).

So Marines gain resistance to plasma and PW if they have FNP, Wyches gain resistance vs all PW, non-GW, non-MC models, but decreased survivability against everything else, including CHARGES for crying out loud. When an assault unit has to think twice about charging a unit, not because of its CC prowess, but because they're afraid of getting shot to pieces. I mean, as I've said, I can just move on to other choices in my army (no reason not to go full Venom spam now!) but as someone whose been playing since third, and has found all the comments about CC "dominating" 5th ed quaint, I just would rather not. I picked DE because I wanted a fragile, manuver intensive army that handled combined arms well. 6th ed removes the combined arms aspect and makes it a full shooting list. I expect that Incubi klaives will be AP2 in truth, but that still does very little to slow down FNP marines, who used to be the best reason for me to take them in the first place.

Necrons getting a boost, going from a solid book to early indications being "holy crap best X in the game" eh? Hunh. Mat Ward book. That is all.

And no. I won't be buying this until my concerns have been in some fashion ameliorated, contrary to the overly repetitious beliefs of those in the community. Some of us are not drooling, obsessed fanboys who will gobble up anything GW serves us with a smile. I can actually give them due credit where it is deserved (many models, much of 5th ed, pre-Ward fluff) but hold them accountable for everything: and not unreasonably so. I will review this book with friends, read it online, and then if it's worth it, I'll let GW have my money. Many of you will say "omg just wait for the book before you complain!" but as more and more corroberation comes in about these rumors, it would take a hell of alot of things that somehow DIDN'T get mentioned to redeem what I've seen so far. It's not ALL bad, but alot was changed to seemingly little point, and for the only real effect of marginalizing or outright neutering anything that wasn't an Imperial Army (or written by Ward), with only the barest tidbit thrown to the others.

God knows why FNP in particular wasn't just graded like Regen was in WHFB. 4+, 5+, 6+... not really that hard, guys. It's one of the few good ideas to come of 8e FB. Oh well, at least I get to ally with normal Eldar to cover the glaring holes in my codex so I can resist the Dwellers Below or Purple Sun or whatever lovely psychic powers everyone will be throwing around now. Rather than, yknow, expecting GW to write a balanced book/system for once. The only problem with "the rule of cool" is that what GW thinks is cool, and what _I_ think is cool, are sadly, RADICALLY different things.

I recall reading somewhere that allies are limited to 20% of the points in an army. How true that is I do not know. Was it White Dwarf?

Isn't there also a list of what armies can ally with each other and which ones can't?

Nagashek wrote:
:pinches his nose: No, I think you guys are all missing the point. Marines are getting a buff from this. Plasma rounds are S7, so they don't ID them, but they used to be a viable option against BA and DG. Now it will take lascannons to drop marines with FNP, and though the rerollable odds of survival are worse than before (by about 1/6) they still have a 3+ armor save to rely on. DG are still T5, meaning that RAILGUNS are needed to drop them reliably.

Meltaguns, Battlecannons, Demolishers...my guard won't struggle to deny FNP to BA.
Stop whinging, expand your repertoire.

Melcavuk wrote:As far as I have read the allies rules stood at a required 1 HQ and 1 Troop from your chosen force, which allowed access to an optional 1 elite, 1 fast attack and 1 heavy support.

Awe man...you mean I have to buy a rune priest AND and a GH squad in order to unlock a longfang squad...what a painful restriction [/sarcasm]

I have been reading all of this for a few years and I have predictions of how things are going to go for those who are willing to give it a try with an open mind.

Testify wrote:

Nagashek wrote:
:pinches his nose: No, I think you guys are all missing the point. Marines are getting a buff from this. Plasma rounds are S7, so they don't ID them, but they used to be a viable option against BA and DG. Now it will take lascannons to drop marines with FNP, and though the rerollable odds of survival are worse than before (by about 1/6) they still have a 3+ armor save to rely on. DG are still T5, meaning that RAILGUNS are needed to drop them reliably.

Meltaguns, Battlecannons, Demolishers...my guard won't struggle to deny FNP to BA.
Stop whinging, expand your repertoire.

By "repertoire" you clearly mean "play IG?"

I already said killing them in shooting won't be the issue, it will be HtH, while wyches take a comparitive hit, and Termies of all kinds get a boost. And DG (popular in my area, at least) are getting a heck of a bump.

'After the books have even comes out'.

Yup, standard demotivational poster.

Why is Batman fighting a shark? That just seems like a waste of his talents...

With a lightsabre no less!



BATMAN IS A JEDI!!!!!!!

Formosa wrote:hell so long as all the new rules help mitigate one of the things in this game i dislike.... seeing who will win at the army list stage, randomness may help this a little.


Allies will be great too as i can include some SW stuff (grey hunters and maybe a wolflord) in my DA army, just no aliens of any kind though (this includes the stupid thunderwolves) or abhumans

The last 2 games I have lost was because I did not go first. Razorback Spam crippled my entire fleet both times and could not move across the board. ><

Yes because thats the big question when he seems to have developed some sort of sabre made of light...

Anyway you say fighting, but he appears to be "riding" it?

A Dark knight indeed.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Just Dave wrote:Interestingly, haven't heard anything about Heavy Vehicles (ala the Monolith), which I remember some people were hoping to see in 6th...

I never got the hype about that at all. Heavy is defined in the Codex, why would it herald in some great new change ( )?

Monolith is now helped somewhat by Snapshot. It can come in from DS and shoot as if being stationary (so fire the Whip or the Flux Arc at normal BS) and should then be able to fire the other gun using Snapshot at BS1.......it depends if they change the ruling for Ordnance guns or not, as right now even with Snapshot you still wouldn't be able to fire anythgin else with the Whip.

What about things in the shooting phase? If you can fire shooting weapons at BS1, and the portal counts as a shooting attack, and you can user shooting attack via snapshot at Bs1 in addition to normal attacks........


Automatically Appended Next Post:
FNP "nerf"? Look at the Necrons Rp rule.

So the only thing that denies FNP now is double T? I can see hwo that now gives them a bonus to save against plasma and low Ap stuff - great.

But they are still just as vulnerable as befor to small arms fire,more so actualyl as the save has gone down from a 4+ to a 5+. So you can let rip with a S10 blast and hope to deny then the roll at all, or blast them with 20 S4 (for exampel) shots and watch as they have to roll a 5+ to save them.

Speaking a 'cron player we didn't have many shooting attacks that denied FNP anyway (lance and heavy gauss Cannon i think) so it's no massive loss.

wererat wrote:I dunno how I feel about the psychic powers. A part of me is going oh cool, that should be pretty sweet. I just don't like that some armies can't use them..at all. It also doesn't help that all of my armies don't like psykers (coincidence) meaning I won't even get a chance to try out the new powers and instead will have the pleasure of rolling my eyes every time my opponents shoot magic lasers at me.

If you read the information you would see that the psychic powers are dsigned to be used with as of yet unreleased codices, and have been made available in their current form 'for fun in the interim'. There a couple of armies with no powers available at all yes, but that is because those armies do not have any psykers. At all. Ever.
The fact that you have chosen armies that don't utilise psykers is your own decision, nothing to do with the rules. If you want to try out some of the new powers then utilise the Allies rules instead and bring in a psyker from another army.

Any word on official endorsement of Forge World units in regular games? Something to go along with the new stamps in the Imperial Armor Apoc Second Edition book?

Dog. wrote:

wererat wrote:I dunno how I feel about the psychic powers. A part of me is going oh cool, that should be pretty sweet. I just don't like that some armies can't use them..at all. It also doesn't help that all of my armies don't like psykers (coincidence) meaning I won't even get a chance to try out the new powers and instead will have the pleasure of rolling my eyes every time my opponents shoot magic lasers at me.

If you read the information you would see that the psychic powers are dsigned to be used with as of yet unreleased codices, and have been made available in their current form 'for fun in the interim'. There a couple of armies with no powers available at all yes, but that is because those armies do not have any psykers. At all. Ever.
The fact that you have chosen armies that don't utilise psykers is your own decision, nothing to do with the rules. If you want to try out some of the new powers then utilise the Allies rules instead and bring in a psyker from another army.

i for one am actually quite pleased the necrons dont have access to Psyker powers. It gives me less stuff to think about. Also i have never really bothed using them in my IW army (apart from Warptime on a DP).

I was hoping the Necrons would get some kind of boost to nullifying the powers as they dont technically have minds to warp or mess about with buy you can't have everything, and i think 'Crons are betting enough boosts in these rules to even things out.


EDIT - saying that, the anti-psyker upgrade on Spyders (gloom prism?) makes more sense and will see more use now.

So the rumour that power weapons are AP3 is true it would seem....

Delicious.

Meganobs, oh my lovely meganobs, my beautiful meganobs will be so happy.

I think new edition will at least spark some attention and will to play in my group. Change for a sake of change is good sometimes (damn you Tzeentch!)
One rule I'm really, really, reeeeaaaaly concerned about is needing good AP to penetrate. If that is true then Eldar lost Scatter Laser as anti-AV. This sucks and it sucks HARD.

Praxiss wrote:I was hoping the Necrons would get some kind of boost to nullifying the powers as they dont technically have minds to warp or mess about

Aren't Necrons very vulnerable to the warp powers fluff-wise?

Dribble Joy wrote:So the rumour that power weapons are AP3 is true it would seem....

Delicious.

Meganobs, oh my lovely meganobs, my beautiful meganobs will be so happy.

Excpet is the player you facing decised to field them as Poer Axes - in which case they are apparently AP2.

So a power sword give you "parry" which is a 5++........so we can expect to see all SM Captains and Chapter masters with power Axes now as they get a 4++ anyway. I see a boost in sales of SW axes on bitz sites for people remodelling.

Wytches won't have any problem with terminators. Take the venom blade (it was already better then the agonizer). You will get a 4+ followed by a 5+ with FNP (that is no longer cancelled) in hth with terminators. I expect that 15 wytches (about 200 pts) will beat TH/SS termies (about 200 pts) and come out on top. God forbid if you put the shardnet and impailers in there.

Good bye Relic Blade. Hello Relic Axe. Hmm, is Glaive Encarmine a blade or an axe?

Good thing I got a chapter of the master with stormshield and axe.

Thought - since Plasma no longer ignores FNP on MEQ, will they have gotten rid of Gets Hot!?
I hope so. Hate that stupid rule.

Testify wrote:Thought - since Plasma no longer ignores FNP on MEQ, will they have gotten rid of Gets Hot!?
I hope so. Hate that stupid rule.

I do to a point to, I love Plasma Spam. However I think has a place in the game.
1] Its Fluffy.
2] There would be no reason to take anything else other that the occasional Melta-Gun for Anti-TANK work.

Anpu42 wrote:

Testify wrote:Thought - since Plasma no longer ignores FNP on MEQ, will they have gotten rid of Gets Hot!?
I hope so. Hate that stupid rule.

I do to a point to, I love Plasma Spam. However I think has a place in the game.
1] Its Fluffy.
2] There would be no reason to take anything else other that the occasional Melta-Gun for Anti-TANK work.

The fact that it's 50% more points? At 15pts each, with GH!, they're not worth it, even with many of the rumored changes.

Nagashek wrote:DG are still T5, meaning that RAILGUNS are needed to drop them reliably.

Not necessarily, the current rule with Plague Marines is they count as T4 for the purposes of instant death.

Vaktathi wrote:

Anpu42 wrote:

Testify wrote:Thought - since Plasma no longer ignores FNP on MEQ, will they have gotten rid of Gets Hot!?
I hope so. Hate that stupid rule.

I do to a point to, I love Plasma Spam. However I think has a place in the game.
1] Its Fluffy.
2] There would be no reason to take anything else other that the occasional Melta-Gun for Anti-TANK work.

The fact that it's 50% more points? At 15pts each, with GH!, they're not worth it, even with many of the rumored changes.

I guess I am one those lucky ones that does well with Plasma. If they changed "Gets Hot" I will need even more Plasma Weapons.

Is hating the rules without seeing the rules a thing now?

I may have missed it; where are people getting that Power Swords are AP3 but Power Axes AP2?

Rumours....backed by......leaks......quantified by rumours.

Any word on new rules for walkers?
I am hoping Triach Stalkers get a buff in CC.
Something like all walkers double str or no save against would be awesome!

I don't run any plasma either, but with the rumours of Rapid Fire rules and Mechlists being nerfed, I've whipped up a quick 1850 list in BattleScribe for 6E:

HQ
Wolf Priest
Rune Priest (Chooser of the Slain, Living Lightning, Jaws)

Elites
Wolf Guard x4 (Power Fist, Combi-Melta)
Dreadnought (Dreadnought CCW w/ Heavy Flamer, Plasma Cannon)
Dreadnought (Dreadnought CCW w/ Heavy Flamer, Assault Cannon)

Troops
Grey Hunters x7 (Plasma Gun, Wolf Standard, MotW)
Grey Hunters x7 (Plasma Gun, Wolf Standard, MotW)
Grey Hunters x6 (Plasma Gun, Wolf Standard, MotW)
Grey Hunters x6 (Plasma Gun, Wolf Standard, MotW)

Fast Attack
Thunderwolf Cavalry x3 (Frost Axe, Storm Shield x3)

Heavy Support
Long Fangs x6 (5x Missile Launcher)
Long Fangs x6 (5x Missile Launcher)
Long Fangs x6 (5x Missile Launcher)

leohart wrote:Good bye Relic Blade. Hello Relic Axe. Hmm, is Glaive Encarmine a blade or an axe?

Good thing I got a chapter of the master with stormshield and axe.

A relic blade ins't a power weapon and power axes will have a drawback in comparison to power swords, probably the lack of a 'parry' save.

I don't have my codex handy but aren't plague Marines inherently T5?

No, Plague Marines are T4(5) with the current rulebook, thus they are T4 for the purposes of instant death.

Bad change is bad.

Plague Marines just get the Mark of Nurgle for free

They count as T5 for anything other then Instant Death weapons.

Hopefully with 6th + New Chaos Dex my Ksons will drop in price enough i can afford them as my 3rd squad. That or my billion CSM i have tucked away.

d-usa wrote:Is hating the rules without seeing the rules a thing now?

I see two sides to this:

1. Those that are discussing the rules.
2. Those that are attacking those discussing the rules.

Guess which side you're on?

Relic Blade probably won't be a power weapon. But currently it is a two-handed power weapon that gives +2 strength.

@StoneRazier: Why not take 10-man and get a free plasmagun. With your lord giving 12" of Ld10, you really don't need baby-sitting wolf guards. Or maybe 11 guys (dual plasma, combi-plas) behind Rhinos, the second they kill one guy, everybody hops onto the Rhino, if they don't, you have move and shoot 24" of 2x plasma gun.

I foresee rhino wall coming back.

Palindrome wrote:

leohart wrote:Good bye Relic Blade. Hello Relic Axe. Hmm, is Glaive Encarmine a blade or an axe?

Good thing I got a chapter of the master with stormshield and axe.

A relic blade ins't a power weapon and power axes will have a drawback in comparison to power swords, probably the lack of a 'parry' save.

But anyone who can take a Relic Blade already has a 4++ invul save thanks to their iron halo, so what's the point in the Parry save?

What is a relic Blade then? is it just listed as a sword that denies armour saves? Someone mentioned that the rule book has a list of every weapons and unit in the game so maybe that will list Relic Blades as a separate entity to power swords and power axes.

I'm hoping this means we will see a return of power mauls and other lovely things in the next Chaos 'dex as well (as they currently get the generic "power weapon" option).

H.B.M.C. wrote:

d-usa wrote:Is hating the rules without seeing the rules a thing now?

I see two sides to this:

1. Those that are discussing the rules.
2. Those that are attacking those discussing the rules.

Guess which side you're on?

I see three sides to this:

1) Those that are discussing the rules that are leaked.
2) Those that are discussing the rules that are leaked and are freaking out.
3) Those that are having some fun with people freaking out.

I am guessing that I am in both #1 and #3. I have talked about the actual rules (an example would be my post talking about how the D3 for flamers in defensive fire would be a good buff to counteract the nerf of removing models from the front row), and I have talked about how people should not freak out by a single rule when it gets leaked without knowing what the other rules are.

Well, as allies I want 9 IG flyers in my army.

For the record - the Axe-Power Sword variation isn't something I'm a fan of.

Considering that 3rd, 4th and 5th edition did away with it encouraging folks to make generic power weapons of any type for variety...it seems a huge backwards step.

Especially when you consider folks will have converted - it also doesn't differ for things like Mauls (Hi Chaos Terminators!), Scythes, Whips, Spears.....

We'll see. I don't like things being shoe-horned based on who converted what!

All my swords counts as Power Axes.

d-usa wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

d-usa wrote:Is hating the rules without seeing the rules a thing now?

I see two sides to this:

1. Those that are discussing the rules.
2. Those that are attacking those discussing the rules.

Guess which side you're on?

I see three sides to this:

1) Those that are discussing the rules that are leaked.
2) Those that are discussing the rules that are leaked and are freaking out.
3) Those that are having some fun with people freaking out.

I am guessing that I am in both #1 and #3. I have talked about the actual rules (an example would be my post talking about how the D3 for flamers in defensive fire would be a good buff to counteract the nerf of removing models from the front row), and I have talked about how people should not freak out by a single rule when it gets leaked without knowing what the other rules are.

I don't see any one getting "freaked" out. I see some people, like me not liking some of the rules. And I see some of you that do. That is what a discussion is about. Having both sides to something. You are going on the asumption that you like something also without hearing the whole story and rules about it. So which one of us is right or wrong? No one knows until its actually in the hands. Until then I am behind my choice to not like most of the rules changes. I dare you to tell me otherwise. But you are right the book might change olot of us dislikers minds, but then again your mind might change when you actually have that book in your hand as well.

otherwise........

does that cont as telling you?

RegulusBlack wrote:otherwise........

does that cont as telling you?

Nope!

Praxiss wrote:But anyone who can take a Relic Blade already has a 4++ invul save thanks to their iron halo, so what's the point in the Parry save?

Vanguard Veteran Sergeants and Honor Guard? Who knows, it's not even clear whether the relic blade will grant a parry save.

dang it!!!!

The new rule set allows GW to make money since it shifts the emphasis away to other kind of (competitive) lists. Moreover, the flyers are a new dimension to the game.

The rule set will have caveats and gaps as the current one and the ones before, but these holes and downsides are different from the former ones. One needs to live with it.

On the other hand, a new rule set is a chance to start an army anew, view it from a different angle, and adapt a few things here and there, and go out to test it. This is the exciting part of a new rule set.

DarkStarSabre wrote:For the record - the Axe-Power Sword variation isn't something I'm a fan of.

Considering that 3rd, 4th and 5th edition did away with it encouraging folks to make generic power weapons of any type for variety...it seems a huge backwards step.

Especially when you consider folks will have converted - it also doesn't differ for things like Mauls (Hi Chaos Terminators!), Scythes, Whips, Spears.....

We'll see. I don't like things being shoe-horned based on who converted what!

Again, pointless takign a powersword on a terminator as they get a 5++ anyway.

Praxiss wrote:

DarkStarSabre wrote:For the record - the Axe-Power Sword variation isn't something I'm a fan of.

Considering that 3rd, 4th and 5th edition did away with it encouraging folks to make generic power weapons of any type for variety...it seems a huge backwards step.

Especially when you consider folks will have converted - it also doesn't differ for things like Mauls (Hi Chaos Terminators!), Scythes, Whips, Spears.....

We'll see. I don't like things being shoe-horned based on who converted what!

Again, pointless takign a powersword on a terminator as they get a 5++ anyway.

A 5++ save is almost a waste, I never gonna make it when it gets grim.

Since Plasma is going to be less effective than it is right now(according to rumor), I'm hoping they remove Gets Hot.

While I deeply enjoy watching my guardsmen die, those guns are expensive.

wuestenfux wrote:

Praxiss wrote:

DarkStarSabre wrote:For the record - the Axe-Power Sword variation isn't something I'm a fan of.

Considering that 3rd, 4th and 5th edition did away with it encouraging folks to make generic power weapons of any type for variety...it seems a huge backwards step.

Especially when you consider folks will have converted - it also doesn't differ for things like Mauls (Hi Chaos Terminators!), Scythes, Whips, Spears.....

We'll see. I don't like things being shoe-horned based on who converted what!

Again, pointless takign a powersword on a terminator as they get a 5++ anyway.

A 5++ save is almost a waste, I never gonna make it when it gets grim.

Yeah, but my point is that if Power swords are Ap3 and give you a 5++, and an axe is Ap2 but no save...if you have a 5++ anyway why woudl you ever bother taking a sword? Especially when they are the exact same price (in current 'dexes anyway).

I can't see people taking powersword over Axes TBH. Having Ap2 on (for example) 3 attacks in CC is preferable to have a single 5++ save that you have pretty solid chance of failing anyway. i for one will be tryign to remodel all my power swords as axes.

xole wrote:Since Plasma is going to be less effective than it is right now(according to rumor), I'm hoping they remove Gets Hot.

I think cover being less of a factor also needs to figured into this equation.

I hope they increase Gets hot! so that it happens to the player as well as the model. Can they do that?

The parry save could always work like nemesis force swords and grant a +1 bonus to an existing invulnerable in CC.

Power axes may also refer to the two handed variety of power weapons, meaning they lose the extra attack from CC but gain AP2. Who knows though, just speculation.

I personally am wondering where people are seeing that power axes are directly interchangeable with power swords, or that they'd cost the same. or, for that matter that they're even options for any power sword user in particular.

solles wrote:I personally am wondering where people are seeing that power axes are directly interchangeable with power swords, or that they'd cost the same. or, for that matter that they're even options for any power sword user in particular.

It is speculation.

xole wrote:Since Plasma is going to be less effective than it is right now(according to rumor), I'm hoping they remove Gets Hot.

While I deeply enjoy watching my guardsmen die, those guns are expensive.

I don't there is going to be that much of nerf as people think.
The no longer working against FNP:
1] Yes there is a lot of FNP, I am seeing a DE player talking about how the 5+ is going to make his Wytches Plasma-Gun Fodder, but he will be getting it vs. PGs now.
2] I will still Bypass Terminator Armor and Artificer/Runic Army, with the Changes with Power Weapons, you are going to see a lot of that floating around [Along with Power Axes].
3] You are still going to be Wounding a lot of Single wound Models on a 2+, an a lot of Multi-Wound Models to.
4] With the changes to Rapid Fire, you will get a lot more shots off.
5] Apparently with the Changes with how Vehicles work you should be able to Plasma a Dread to Death.
Gets Hot Not Get Hot it mater not
It will not be matter to me other than I will probably be not using Melta-Guns as much.

pretre wrote:

solles wrote:I personally am wondering where people are seeing that power axes are directly interchangeable with power swords, or that they'd cost the same. or, for that matter that they're even options for any power sword user in particular.

It is speculation.

Admittedly so, and I've noticed they seem to be directly attempting to use the term "power weapon" where possible (see: sisters of battle faq - "power sword" changed to "power weapon") it isn't too far-fetched to get the option. Just thought perhaps there was something people were seeing outside of this that confirmed it.

solles wrote:I personally am wondering where people are seeing that power axes are directly interchangeable with power swords, or that they'd cost the same. or, for that matter that they're even options for any power sword user in particular.

valid point. I am going with it as it has never been specified that a model may take a "power sword for X points" or a "power axe for X points". AFAIK it usually just says "power weapon" and as such people model whatever weapon they want to (swords, spears, axes, flails etc etc).

The excpetion to this are armies liek GK where each of their differnt Force weapon options has a clear bonus to taking it, and therefore needs to be listed as separate entries.

Anpu42 wrote:
1] Yes there is a lot of FNP, I am seeing a DE player talking about how the 5+ is going to make his Wytches Plasma-Gun Fodder, but he will be getting it vs. PGs now.

This is not correct. Plasma is still S7, and instant death still bypasses FNP. I've seen this mentioned quite a bit, so it is worth reminding that DE will not get FNP vs anything S6+, including plasma.

I'm sorry, i think i've managed to confuse myself somewhere along the way.

So what negates FNP now, allegedly? Just Double T?

I just have to mention that these rumors are turning me on. I can't wait.
I want 6th nyeow.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

d-usa wrote:Is hating the rules without seeing the rules a thing now?

I see two sides to this:

1. Those that are discussing and reacting to the rules completely out of context.
2. Those that are confused by the reactions of people in the #1 category.

Guess which side you're on?

Fixed that for you HBMC, kind of disappointed that you're not really seeing the full picture.

Where's my WD!?!

Whats' the point in having a sub if i dont get it a couple of days before Joe Bloggs can buy it in the store?!?

Oh I get my WD about a week after it comes out in the stores if not later. There was a time when I didn't get it until a week before the next months issue came out. Something is going on with them shipping the Mags out for sure.

Still hold out until I read the book and played a few games.

Now saying that, I can just picture the part in the front of the book on what can be used with the core book " All current 40K Codex and IA books".

Praxiss wrote:

solles wrote:I personally am wondering where people are seeing that power axes are directly interchangeable with power swords, or that they'd cost the same. or, for that matter that they're even options for any power sword user in particular.

valid point. I am going with it as it has never been specified that a model may take a "power sword for X points" or a "power axe for X points". AFAIK it usually just says "power weapon" and as such people model whatever weapon they want to (swords, spears, axes, flails etc etc).

The excpetion to this are armies liek GK where each of their differnt Force weapon options has a clear bonus to taking it, and therefore needs to be listed as separate entries.

I don't know about other codices, but unlike the sisters faq i mentioned prior, i just noticed the various inquisitors and acolytes of the grey knights codex have a purchase specifically for "power sword" that wasn't errata'd to say "power weapon"

Praxiss wrote:I'm sorry, i think i've managed to confuse myself somewhere along the way.

So what negates FNP now, allegedly? Just Double T?

Anything that causes Instant Death...so Double T as well as weapons or abilities that cause Instant Death like psychically enabled Force Weapons.

Prodigalson wrote:Wytches won't have any problem with terminators. Take the venom blade (it was already better then the agonizer). You will get a 4+ followed by a 5+ with FNP (that is no longer cancelled) in hth with terminators. I expect that 15 wytches (about 200 pts) will beat TH/SS termies (about 200 pts) and come out on top. God forbid if you put the shardnet and impailers in there.

.... A venom blade gives you 2+ poison, but allows saves as normal. There would be no change between taking one now, or with these rumored changes: the wyches die just as hard. With an Agonizer at least you had a good chance to kill one early. Without it... when you run the numbers, 15 wyches, even with the best drug they can get vs MEq (reroll wounds) fail to even win that combat, getting at best a tie. Thunderhammers are a terrible comparison in any event, as in 5th, and with the rumored changes TH will deny your FNP. The FNP changes come out to a wash (some good, some bad) with the bad mostly affecting T3 models (who were dying to S6 shooting anyway, but now die faster to lower S shots) and the good benefitting T4.

I suppose I can continue to weather people saying "Oh it's fine! I like these rules! You're being unreasonable for hating them without even seeing the book!" by countering with "Oh this sucks! I hate these rules! You're being unreasonable for liking them without even seeing the book!"

Works both ways. For now, there's no problem in discussing what the impact of these rumors are, (positive and negative) especially if they invalidate multiple sections of my chosen army with no real compensation. Notice I haven't gone TOO doom and gloom on the vehicle rules yet (as there's barely anything on them), nor the ally rules, despite the fact that they sound horrid, broken, impossible to manage, and awkwardly uncool. For every IG player happy to field GKs, there's a Tau player who'd rather just have a good codex on its own. If I wanted to play Spacewolves, I'd play Spacewolves. I shouldn't need Longfangs to cover the holes in my book. Oops, there I go again.

I'm happy that terrain is getting back to being varied again! But not excited about "mysterious terrain." I had my fill in WHFB, thanks.

I wonder, Will the Psychic Cards be required?

No.

wuestenfux wrote: a new rule set is a chance to start an army anew,

Thats what GW is hoping for. Change the rules enough that people need to buy new units, or in the case of tourney/WAAC guys whole new armies.

It will be interesting to see if the things that get buffed are the ones on the lower end of the sales figures. Lagging sales on a bunch of models?...change the rules to favor those models...now they sell big and you move stagnant inventory.

hotsauceman1 wrote:I wonder, Will the Psychic Cards be required?

Why would they be?

They are just print outs of what is in the main rule book...

hotsauceman1 wrote:I wonder, Will the Psychic Cards be required?

Only if you wish to re-enact Yu Gi Oh.

Yes Yu Gi Oh!

Im rewatching them all atm


Cant wait to get this collectors edition preordered already!

DarkStarSabre wrote:

hotsauceman1 wrote:I wonder, Will the Psychic Cards be required?

Only if you wish to re-enact Yu Gi Oh.

hey now yugioh was great back when I watched it! YOU ACTIVATED MY TRAP CARD!!! A COSTLY MISTAKE!!!

DarkStarSabre wrote:

hotsauceman1 wrote:I wonder, Will the Psychic Cards be required?

Only if you wish to re-enact Yu Gi Oh.

But I don't want to play a Tau/Nid list

gorgon wrote:

xole wrote:Since Plasma is going to be less effective than it is right now(according to rumor), I'm hoping they remove Gets Hot.

I think cover being less of a factor also needs to figured into this equation.

4+(1/2 chance) save equals 50% chance of death/life.

5+ save followed by 5+ save equals a 55.5% chance that one of the saves will be made, and a 44.4% chance of death.

They cost more in imperial codexes than melta guns, a value which will stay the same after 6th comes out. Changes to rapid fire could be interesting, but if there is a nerf to plasma overall it's not one it needed.

I suppose there isn't enough to go off of right now, maybe I'm just bitter about the last time I used plasma guns and two of my guardsmen died the same turn in the same squad

Thanks. I might get those later on. Also i wish i didnt just buy new dice and tape measurer. those look sweet.

Why do I feel that this ruleset has been specifically designed to nerd my particular army???
Not my codex as a whole, just MY army.
Wound allocation scres me over.
FNP 5+ screws me over
New cover saves screw me over.
ITS LIKE ITS BEEN DESIGNED THIS WAY! WHYYY LIFE???? WHYYYYYY?!?!?!

Because it has. GW is targetting you, walker90234 of Chester, Cheshire. They have decided to make your life miserable by 'nerd'ing it.

Just wait, it isn't over. Other companies will soon join suit.

pretre wrote:Because it has. GW is targetting you, walker90234 of Chester, Cheshire. They have decided to make your life miserable by 'nerd'ing it.

Just wait, it isn't over. Other companies will soon join suit.

You sir just win the best post of the year award

Therion wrote:

pretre wrote:Because it has. GW is targetting you, walker90234 of Chester, Cheshire. They have decided to make your life miserable by 'nerd'ing it.

Just wait, it isn't over. Other companies will soon join suit.

You sir just win the best post of the year award

But it is only June!

Joe Mama wrote:

Therion wrote:

pretre wrote:Because it has. GW is targetting you, walker90234 of Chester, Cheshire. They have decided to make your life miserable by 'nerd'ing it.

Just wait, it isn't over. Other companies will soon join suit.

You sir just win the best post of the year award

But it is only June!

Game over man, game over.

imweasel wrote:However, if the relentless rumor is true, logan and long fangs just got an 11 on their dial!

Eh? Someone explain this to me because I don't get it.

Watch bad units become good and vice versa so we all have to buy models :p

Joe Mama wrote:

imweasel wrote:However, if the relentless rumor is true, logan and long fangs just got an 11 on their dial!

Eh? Someone explain this to me because I don't get it.

It would mean "turned it up to 11", as in the long fang/logan combo got better. It is a reference to how some volume dials/other things only go up to 10.

There will be 'winners' and there will be 'loosers'. Most people will find they can adapt their tactics without much hassle, many will find that areas of their current armies that don't do so well or are largely ignored will perform better.

I'm probably a winner, at least when it comes to my DeffWing (or at least their survivability against PWs), but then I don't know how the vehicle rules and other changes will affect my army either.

leohart wrote:@Joe Mama: You and me both. I don't even know what 11 on their dial suppose to mean.

Classic 1980s movie: This is Spinal Tap! Go do a youtube search for Spinal Tap and This Dial Goes to 11.

Up to Eleven.

xole wrote:

Joe Mama wrote:

imweasel wrote:However, if the relentless rumor is true, logan and long fangs just got an 11 on their dial!

Eh? Someone explain this to me because I don't get it.

It would mean "turned it up to 11", as in the long fang/logan combo got better. It is a reference to how some volume dials/other things only go up to 10.

I get the 11 thing. Why would it make them better though?

Joe Mama wrote:

imweasel wrote:However, if the relentless rumor is true, logan and long fangs just got an 11 on their dial!

Eh? Someone explain this to me because I don't get it.

Yeah i am not sure either, they could all ready move and shoot with the relentless that Logan gave them. I do understand the dial to eleven reference though. Not sure it fits though.

Unless I missed something as well.

It seems to me that for every rule they fix, the end up breaking 3 in the process. I have to say that I'm very apprehensive about new editions at this point.

Joe Mama wrote:

xole wrote:

Joe Mama wrote:

imweasel wrote:However, if the relentless rumor is true, logan and long fangs just got an 11 on their dial!

Eh? Someone explain this to me because I don't get it.

It would mean "turned it up to 11", as in the long fang/logan combo got better. It is a reference to how some volume dials/other things only go up to 10.

I get the 11 thing. Why would it make them better though?

Because 11 is one more than 10, that's why.

d-usa wrote:Because 11 is one more than 10, that's why.

But why do the new rules raise their dial number from 10 to 11? I don't see how the new rules would help a Logan missile spam list, and I definitely didn't see anything new about Relentless that would help them...

pretre wrote:Because it has. GW is targetting you, walker90234 of Chester, Cheshire. They have decided to make your life miserable by 'nerd'ing it.

Just wait, it isn't over. Other companies will soon join suit.

Exactly. Wait until you see what's coming next, walker90234. This was just the opening salvo. Maybe next we infuriate you by changing the flavors -- just subtlely -- at your favorite food establishment. Maybe we drive you to the edge of madness by putting your second favorite TV program on long-term hiatus. Maybe we make life itself intolerable by changing the timing on your local traffic signals by a second or two.

Something wicked this way comes, walker90234.

Joe Mama wrote:I get the 11 thing. Why would it make them better though?

I think there was a not believable rumour about relentless giving one additional shot. This maybe?

I think there's a rumor that Relentless gives you a bonus shot if you stand still. So Logan + a LF squad will get up to 10 HW shots per turn (w/ split fire).

Ah, ok. So many rumors I can't keep track of them all...

Amerikon wrote:I think there's a rumor that Relentless gives you a bonus shot if you stand still. So Logan + a LF squad will get up to 10 HW shots per turn (w/ split fire).

I'm pretty sure that rumor was about Rapid Fire weapons.

Joe Mama wrote:Ah, ok. So many rumors I can't keep track of them all...

Yeah, and it doesn't help when half of them contradict the other half.

6th means that competitive players will pretty much have to buy all new armies while beer and pretzel players will be in the same boat that they were in. I have a pretty silly number of models so I know that I will be fine. Many of the posters here have a silly amount of models so they will be fine. the game has to be learned and more than a few games of 40k in 40 minutes will be played in my game group just to get the rules for different things down. I can't wait until this book is shipped to my house so I can read it and play my first game.

Amerikon wrote:I think there's a rumor that Relentless gives you a bonus shot if you stand still. So Logan + a LF squad will get up to 10 HW shots per turn (w/ split fire).

And if you charge them, you get 5 missiles to the face (or 1, considering they shoot at BS1)

Joe Mama wrote:Ah, ok. So many rumors I can't keep track of them all...

I wonder how many people will play the actual rules wrong, just because they will skim through the RB and instead of reading what is actually written, they will be like: "oh, just like in the rumours".

Macok wrote:

Joe Mama wrote:Ah, ok. So many rumors I can't keep track of them all...

I wonder how many people will play the actual rules wrong, just because they will skim through the RB and instead of reading what is actually written, they will be like: "oh, just like in the rumours".

Very many.

So assuming the psyker powers stuff is fairly legitimate, does that make Coteaz even better now? Him having hammerhand was basically a waste, though I guess Sanctuary was useful.

tetrisphreak wrote:

Macok wrote:

Joe Mama wrote:Ah, ok. So many rumors I can't keep track of them all...

I wonder how many people will play the actual rules wrong, just because they will skim through the RB and instead of reading what is actually written, they will be like: "oh, just like in the rumours".

Very many.

Just look at YMDC, how many people are still playing 5th Ed rules wrong .

Amerikon wrote:I think there's a rumor that Relentless gives you a bonus shot if you stand still. So Logan + a LF squad will get up to 10 HW shots per turn (w/ split fire).

There was a rumor that relentless gives 1 additional shot to rapid fire. 2 after moving, 3 standing still. The rumor I saw said nothing about ever weapon getting additional shots though.

It may seem like the sky is falling in here, but it's really nice outside. Panic, histrionics, and ragequit overwhelming the rumors threads is probably why games workshop pays such little attention to the online community. I've seen this in magic players, who complain how each new set has ruined and unbalanced magic forever, ostensibly because games will be unfair, but actually because they no longer have the edge they've cultivated by investing in power cards that are falling out of play.

I mean, I may be an donkey-cave, and I may be wrong, but I really just don't see a shake up to the system as being that bad, all of these rumors do seem like improvements to the game.

I'm just happy because the Ubiquitous 4+ cover saves and wound allocation bs of 5e were the worst offenders IMO and it seems like they've both been overhauled. Differentiating close combat weapons definitely sounds like an improvement to me. Allies seem like a great and fun way to expand armies, and the loosened FOC sounds like a great way to really explore some new configurations.

The focus on making games more cinematic gets a big thumbs up from me, because in the end, if I wanted to just play a purely competetive strategy game I'd play Go against a computer.

I love all of those who are going to ragequit, hello eBay!

What time do we expect GW to update the online store?

BladeWalker wrote:What time do we expect GW to update the online store?

7pm ET, or midnight Zulu.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:

BladeWalker wrote:What time do we expect GW to update the online store?

7pm ET, or midnight Zulu.

Thank you. Trying to squeeze in "OMGWTF 40k" around summer activities. Must have man purse!

I've really not seen many claim to ragequit or whatever.

Whilst some obviously - and sometimes understandably - are unhappy with some of the rumours, I've not seen many claim to ragequit.

Personally, I feel attributing Dakka/the online community/lots of people as being the ones rage quitting or getting upset is a mistake, much like the few actually getting upset over the rumours is a mistake.

Edit: Or what he said:

balsak_da_mighty wrote:

Anpu42 wrote:I love all of those who are going to ragequit, hello eBay!

I have been reading for a little while. Although I am one of the few that dislike some of the rules changes, I have yet to see anyone say they plan on "rage" quiting. Is it so hard for people to have a different opinion on something without being aquised of being insanely upset or something. Gessh!

Anpu42 wrote:I love all of those who are going to ragequit, hello eBay!

I have been reading for a little while. Although I am one of the few that dislike some of the rules changes, I have yet to see anyone say they plan on "rage" quiting. Is it so hard for people to have a different opinion on something without being aquised of being insanely upset or something. Gessh!