Alright so a friend of mine is drawing deep from GWs teat, spending thousands to buy virtually every new Chaos Daemon and Greater Daemon for his pay to win army.

One model that scares the bajeezes out of me is his super Nurgle daemon, whatever its called, which with the "Iron Arm" upgrade becomes nothing less than Toughness 10 (armour save and WS unknown), which I know for certain will be in his army. I think it spawns Nurglings and/or drops massive low strength or poisoned pie plates as well.

How on earth do I counter this thing with my boyz? I'm coming up with nothing and need your help.

For reference purposes, since few of us face T10 on a daily basis...
Under STR 7 does nothing at all
STR 7 wounds on 6+
STR 8 wounds on 6+
STR 9 wounds on 5+
STR 10 wounds on 4+

Sofar mass Loota or big choppa spam or crushing it repeatedly with a tide of battlewagons seems to be my only hope. I typically deal with tough guys using PK, but in this case they're only worth it on the big boss, having exactly zero to-wound advantage over big choppas when used on Nobz.

Any and all cheese is permitted and I can counts-as any model as virtually anything else, blocks of wood as vehicles and so on, so anything goes.

Pay to win? Daemons? Have you even seen the new codex? Pay to win is CSM/Necron army and even that is not going to win without a decent amount of skill. The new daemons are mid tier but with some really cool new models.

T10 can be a pain for orks to KILL but they can keep it tied up all game with a single decently sized boyz unit. The unclean one just doesn't have enough attacks to deal with a big mob of boyz.

How do you work that out? Nobz w/PK are str9 on the charge, str8 otherwise and str7 on the charge with a big choppa, str6 otherwise, huge difference.

I think you're talking about a Great Unclean One. The greater daemon that hurls nurglings can't get to T10 since it has no access to biomancy, only nurgle powers.

The Great Unclean One still has to roll for iron arm on the powers chart and then needs to roll a 5 or 6 to get to T10. So it won't happen every game, nor will it happen every turn if he has iron arm. Otherwise it doesn't have a ton of attacks and still moves 6+D6 from running. Treat it like any other death star unit. Run away from it and ignore it.

By ignoring him and using the speed from your Trukks, wagons and bikers to maneuver and kill his scoring units, and unless you have killed his FMC w/Lootas (I assume he will have 1 as a GUO makes Nurgle DP HS) I wouldn't waste their shots on him. It is extremely slow and isn't even guaranteed to get Iron Arm. I saw a similar matchup and the daemon player got soundly beaten as he couldn't catch up with all the trukks and battle-wagons with his GUO,


Automatically Appended Next Post:

bogalubov wrote:
Istill moves 6+D6 from running.

Daemon of Nurgle gives Slow and purposeful USR, so it can't run BTW

 CaptainJay wrote:
How do you work that out? Nobz w/PK are str9 on the charge, str8 otherwise and str7 on the charge with a big choppa, str6 otherwise, huge difference.

Ah forgot about furious charge. That is quite a difference.

Treat it like any other death star unit. Run away from it and ignore it.

T10 can be a pain for orks to KILL but they can keep it tied up all game with a single decently sized boyz unit. The unclean one just doesn't have enough attacks to deal with a big mob of boyz.

Alright, so don't try to kill it, try to 'neutralize' it. Got ya

 ansacs wrote:
Pay to win? Daemons? Have you even seen the new codex? Pay to win is CSM/Necron army and even that is not going to win without a decent amount of skill. The new daemons are mid tier but with some really cool new models.

T10 can be a pain for orks to KILL but they can keep it tied up all game with a single decently sized boyz unit. The unclean one just doesn't have enough attacks to deal with a big mob of boyz.

I agree. Go give Papa Nurgle a group hug with 30 Boyz. Who cares if he kills 5 a turn? You've got plenty more!

Or, use massed Loota fire. S7 needs sixes to wound, but you're bound to get a few if you bring a couple units.

bogalubov wrote:

The Great Unclean One still has to roll for iron arm on the powers chart and then needs to roll a 5 or 6 to get to T10. So it won't happen every game, nor will it happen every turn if he has iron arm. Otherwise it doesn't have a ton of attacks and still moves 6+D6 from running. Treat it like any other death star unit. Run away from it and ignore it.

DoN have S&P which means they can't run, if you keep moving the big fatty will never catch you

Let's assume you need a 4+ to hit and a 6+ to wound, with a 3+ save, and 5 wounds. (I'm uncertain of GUO's new stats but this probably isnt far off)


That's about 190 attacks needed. How many Boyz are needed to do that, let's say in 2 game turns aka 4 turns of combat? (and I'm assuming the GUO can kill 4-5 Boyz per turn).

Don't kill it. The two best ways of dealing with a GUO are to either kite it (S&P means it can't run so it moves sloooow) or throw a blob of boyz on it to tie it up. With level 3 and a few gifts, he is going to run ~250 points so sacrificing 30 orks to him isn't a big deal. If he parks his GUO on an objective then just happily ignore that objective and watch as your opponent spent 250 points on a body guard for a scoring unit.

Also, he needs to roll Iron Arm and then roll a 3 on D3 to get T10. That's not outside the realm of possibility but you shouldn't assume that it is always going to be T10 all the time. On a turn where he fails his psychic test and cant cast Iron Arm or rolls a 1 you can shoot the stuffing out of him with Lootas if you really want to kill him.

You can try to attack him with a Nob squad on a low toughness turn as well, but I'm not sure I would recommend it.

 azazel the cat wrote:
Let's assume you need a 4+ to hit and a 6+ to wound, with a 3+ save, and 5 wounds. (I'm uncertain of GUO's new stats but this probably isnt far off)


That's about 190 attacks needed. How many Boyz are needed to do that, let's say in 2 game turns aka 4 turns of combat? (and I'm assuming the GUO can kill 4-5 Boyz per turn).

Boyz can't scratch T10, only the PK would work. And it needs 6s to wound(5s on the charge)


Anyway, ignore it or tie it up. Let him kill 5 boyz a round. With a mob of 30 that will be 4 rounds of CC before you start taking Ld tests.

He may not get Iron Arm, and he may not pass the psychic test every turn.

The GUO only has 5 attacks anyway (okay, 6 if you want to spend at least 30pts on two magic weapons). So he'd still have to roll off his socks and/or get the Warp Speed psychic power to even kill 5 boys per round. Average is only ~2.8 dead orks per round with 5A.

Of course, this is analyzing in a vacuum, and other units might pitch in to help, but the advice given in the thread is solid; he's a lot of points, slow as heck, and not very effective against big horde units which are Fearless.

So in reality its going to take more like 6-8 rounds to get the boys down to taking Ld tests.

I'll also mention that krak grenades also work in melee now. Not sure who can have them in the ork codex, but a few dozen S6 attacks might hurt him pretty bad.

Ghaz will do the job.

Any warboss with a powerklaw and an attack squig in a group of boys with a nob will eat his lunch. Nob denies the challenge and the warboss hits him with 5 s10 attacks every round. If you want to soften him up ram him with a deffrolla first.

The Daemon player picks who denies, he'll pick the Warboss every time.

Way to deal with a GUO. Ready? Get a 30 man mob of Boyz and tarpit him.

That's all.

Ok i was reading some of the above comments...got a little bored...and skipped to post my reply.


Orks excel at rolling fregging heaps of dice.
I am an Ork/Necron player, and believe you me, it is not that hard to roll 6's if you have a lot of dice (Necron's glancing Land Raiders to death on 6's because of Gauss.).

Lootaz are perfect, roll a 5 or 6 = 3 shots each. Lets say that there is a unit of 10 Lootaz, they roll a 5 = 3 shots each. That means 30 shots. Theoretically that means 10 shots hit. That means at least one 6 should be (theoretically rolled).

This is just a suggestion: Necron Allies
Get a triarch stalker with TL Gauss Cannon (S9). If you hit it, that could be a wound, but, for the remainder of that phase (i don't know if all or just necrons that shoot) all shots against that hit target is TL. Lootaz with TL could be brutal.

Then get a AoBR or equivalent Stat Warboss, maybe even in a Nob Squad with PK, and kill dat thang.
Charging Warboss with Pk = 5 S10 attacks. That could do something.

Generally keep away from it. If you want to kill it, don't direct too much of your force, as the enemy is probably taking it just to distract you/kill you. So ignore/keep away from it if you have neither of the aformentioned squads.


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 TedNugent wrote:
Way to deal with a GUO. Ready? Get a 30 man mob of Boyz and tarpit him..

or this could work...

Zogwort can turn him into a squig.

Dakka jet could put some wounds on it as well. Might even really hurt it on the waaaagh

krazykishere wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Daemon player picks who denies, he'll pick the Warboss every time.

That is false. The daemon can only challenge the controlling player picks who accepts or denies

Yes, if he accepts he picks who accepts. If he declines, the player that issued the challange picks a character to sit out.

krazykishere wrote:
Dakka jet could put some wounds on it as well. Might even really hurt it on the waaaagh

You really should read BRB pg 64 again...

then get a towel for that egg.

bogalubov wrote:
I think you're talking about a Great Unclean One. The greater daemon that hurls nurglings can't get to T10 since it has no access to biomancy, only nurgle powers.

The Great Unclean One still has to roll for iron arm on the powers chart and then needs to roll a 5 or 6 to get to T10. So it won't happen every game, nor will it happen every turn if he has iron arm. Otherwise it doesn't have a ton of attacks and still moves 6+D6 from running. Treat it like any other death star unit. Run away from it and ignore it.

The Great Unclean is toughness 6

 whitedragon wrote:
Zogwort can turn him into a squig.

Doesn't Zoggy only work on ICs? The GDs aren't ICs.

 mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:

bogalubov wrote:
I think you're talking about a Great Unclean One. The greater daemon that hurls nurglings can't get to T10 since it has no access to biomancy, only nurgle powers.

The Great Unclean One still has to roll for iron arm on the powers chart and then needs to roll a 5 or 6 to get to T10. So it won't happen every game, nor will it happen every turn if he has iron arm. Otherwise it doesn't have a ton of attacks and still moves 6+D6 from running. Treat it like any other death star unit. Run away from it and ignore it.

The Great Unclean is toughness 6

No, he's 7.

 Mannahnin wrote:

 whitedragon wrote:
Zogwort can turn him into a squig.

Doesn't Zoggy only work on ICs? The GDs aren't ICs.

Correct... only ICs.

Is there any ICs in the new codex?

Heralds, of course.

 Mannahnin wrote:
Heralds, of course.

Wait... heralds can be spammed like no tomorrow...right? 3/HQ slot?

Hmmmm... Zoggy might be fun to field in a friendly game.

 mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:

bogalubov wrote:
I think you're talking about a Great Unclean One. The greater daemon that hurls nurglings can't get to T10 since it has no access to biomancy, only nurgle powers.

The Great Unclean One still has to roll for iron arm on the powers chart and then needs to roll a 5 or 6 to get to T10. So it won't happen every game, nor will it happen every turn if he has iron arm. Otherwise it doesn't have a ton of attacks and still moves 6+D6 from running. Treat it like any other death star unit. Run away from it and ignore it.

The Great Unclean is toughness 6

He is Toughness 7 in the new codex. Greater Rewards can give him +1 W, it will not die, FNP 4+, reroll inv save, or a 3+ armor save. Biomancy can give him +D3 Str/Toughness (thus 7 + 3 = 10), Eternal warrior, FNP, it will not die, or +D3 Init/Attacks.

 Grey Templar wrote:

krazykishere wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Daemon player picks who denies, he'll pick the Warboss every time.

That is false. The daemon can only challenge the controlling player picks who accepts or denies

Yes, if he accepts he picks who accepts. If he declines, the player that issued the challange picks a character to sit out.

Where is this rule coming from?

Have I misread challenges?

The only rule I am aware of that lets the daemon player pick who takes the challenge is from the Slaanesh Loci of beguilement. And the GUO is nurgle.... so wondering how you got to this.

The Slannesh dude picks who accepts.

You always get to pick who declines.

Re-read how challenges and declining works.

Painboys have poisoned weapons

davou wrote:
Painboys have poisoned weapons

If that is true, it will work wonders against a T10 GUO

Painboys are characters and can be challenged. There's also only one unit in the dex that can get Painboyz and that's Nobz.

Getting into combat with that thing with anything other than sacrificial boyz would be ill-advised. He could smash your Nobz and thereby deny them their FNP save as well as causing instant death. Would you really rather have a Nob that dies in one wound with a single 5+ invulnerable save or would you rather have X numbers of wounds via Boyz?

 Green is Best! wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

krazykishere wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Daemon player picks who denies, he'll pick the Warboss every time.

That is false. The daemon can only challenge the controlling player picks who accepts or denies

Yes, if he accepts he picks who accepts. If he declines, the player that issued the challange picks a character to sit out.

Where is this rule coming from?

Have I misread challenges?

The only rule I am aware of that lets the daemon player pick who takes the challenge is from the Slaanesh Loci of beguilement. And the GUO is nurgle.... so wondering how you got to this.

i just had a re-read he is right pg 64 of the BRB and its in bold under refusing

Blob it down with boys. Also, is not the death rolla S10?

Ghazzy!

and is it an ic? if so Old z can also work wonders

Definitely Ghazz, 7 S10 attacks on the charge, declare a Waaagh and get a 2+ invul. Or could go 2 Warbosses in a blob of boys with a nob. Keep refusing challenges and still have one Warboss hitting him.

Tarpit it with a giant unit of Grots.

There's nothing more annoying than having your giant, bad-ass character stuck fighting off a bunch of tiny orks for 4 turns.....then, when he finally breaks free, smash him in the face with a Deffrolla.

Couldn't I accept the challenge, and have up to six re-rolls (one for every five dudes watching the challenge IIRC) from all the Ork Boyz sitting around doing nothing? Especially with Ghaz, thats practically six bonus attacks. I'd rather Gaz attacked +6 times than the boyz launched however many useless attacks

the thing about the 30boyz bubblewrap is you cannot charge something that cannot potentially hurt it - so long as your nob stays the hell away from it and keeps denying a challenge, you arent forced to disengage (not sure how that works) since boyz cant hurt it.

Can the GUO even roll for brb spells? i know the reason my weirdboyz cant is because nothing in the FAQ, BRB, or Codex says i can do it (as its a permissive-based ruleset i must be told i can to do it)

Also if he has Ironarm every single time i'd call him out on cheating because youre suppose to roll for powers in the open before a game begins, i sincerely doubt he got a 1 on a D6 every single game.

EDIT: You could have Ghaz face him and use the 30boyz as a reroll, im not sure if you'd kill him though. Ghaz is a badass but he is far from THE badass HQ since he lacks the MC title which opens a vast amount of options. At best, it would put one hell of a hurtin on him though.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
the thing about the 30boyz bubblewrap is you cannot charge something that cannot potentially hurt it - so long as your nob stays the hell away from it and keeps denying a challenge, you arent forced to disengage (not sure how that works) since boyz cant hurt it.

Again, same thing can be done a whole lot cheaper by using Grots. That Runtherd and his prod wounding on 4+ is enough to charge.

57 points (don't have my codex, so going off memory) to neuter a MC seems like a much better tarpit than the boyz, and lets you use said boyz for krumpin' elsewhere.

Man, that sounds like a fantastic idea. Absolutely fantastic! Could possibly be spamworthy in this case - I now know he's fielding a bunch of tarpit worthy stuff, plus theres a crapload of hideous 2nd edition grots online selling for next to nothing.

God, I always wondered why they put that grot prod thing on the runtherd. Seemed like such a pointless weapon. Now I know otherwise!

Just got the guy's army list off of him. He feels so confident about the outcome of the battle that he's told me what he's fielding in advance.

"A Great unclean one
Bloodthirster
2 squads of 10 bloodletters
2 squads of PlaugeBearers
one skull cannon
2 daemon princes one of khorne one of nurgle"

So GUO and Bloodthirster look like brilliant targets, would the Daemon Princes be worth drowning in grots as well?

I haven't the faintest clue what anything else is / is capable of so Ork counters for them or just general information about those units would be appreciated as well

 Dakkamite wrote:
Man, that sounds like a fantastic idea. Absolutely fantastic! Could possibly be spamworthy in this case - I now know he's fielding a bunch of tarpit worthy stuff, plus theres a crapload of hideous 2nd edition grots online selling for next to nothing.

God, I always wondered why they put that grot prod thing on the runtherd. Seemed like such a pointless weapon. Now I know otherwise!

Just got the guy's army list off of him. He feels so confident about the outcome of the battle that he's told me what he's fielding in advance.

"A Great unclean one
Bloodthirster
2 squads of 10 bloodletters
2 squads of PlaugeBearers
one skull cannon
2 daemon princes one of khorne one of nurgle"

So GUO and Bloodthirster look like brilliant targets, would the Daemon Princes be worth drowning in grots as well?

I haven't the faintest clue what anything else is / is capable of so Ork counters for them or just general information about those units would be appreciated as well

That will depend. Unfortunately I don't know that Daemon 'dex all that well -- but for the Bloodletters and PlagueBearers, you could probably put some hurt on them with Lootas.

I've run lists in the past that really worked on Tarpitting to some success. I would take a lot of Grots and tie up the big guys for a couple of turns while my elites and boyz took care of the "little stuff". Once they finished, I consolidated them on the tarpits to finish those off through sheer number of dice rolls.

While not the most tactical, it worked fairly well and was a pain for some of my opponents to deal with.

Usually ran the following "core":

Ghaz

3x mobs of 30 shoota boyz
3x mobs of 19 grots
2x mobs of 15 Lootas

That gave me a pretty good shooty green tide army for right around 1500 points as well as 177 models on the board. Movement phase was a PITA, but it was fun.

Add to that a few specialized units (Kommandos, Stormboys, Rokkit buggies, Deffkoptas etc.) or maybe another HQ like Zogwort and you have a fun list that should do well against your opponent IMO.

What is the point limit you guys are playing?

With Orks, if you HAVE to face it,...

power klaws, power klaws, power klaws, then bash his face with some deff rolla's, tank hunter tank hammers! Deff dread, killa kans in CC, hope for a awesome roll with the shokk atack gun.. Hope for a lucky roll on a zzzap gun... Maybe boom guns and rokkits can do some damage,... Throw ghazkull in his face or a mega armor warboss,..

There are a lot of options but most come with the risk of uncertainty,...And a guarantee that you will lose orks..

Personally i would throw a squad of 20 boyz with the mad dok at him and keep him stuck...and hopefully do some wounding before he releases my boyz from their misery..

What good will a greater daemon do if he cant use it properly.... and 20 boyz are only 120 points.... The mad dok will cost some but will make sure they dont die as easy and will keep em from running when they fall below 11 boyz....

well as others have said warbosses, tarpits etc, or lootas- in short lots of dice...

if those DPs are flying then we are in another ball game altogether...

on a more fun note, his list is ripe for being trolled by Dark Eldar (if you had allies hint hint ) all those high toughness models mean nowt to splinter weapons- i'd make him cry

Ally dark Eldar, Take a Heamon, shoot it with a Hex rifle. And watch him roll a 6 on his wounds characteristic. I do not think i have ever had an opponent as mad at me in my history of playing 40k when i pulled it off playing my DE.

For troops, take warriors with splinter poison 4+, or even wracks with h2h poison four, and the Champ can have a flesh gauntlet. Poison 4, instant death.

Assuming, you dont wanna ally DE.

Lootas, Mega armor Nobz with Pk, Def Dreads.

I mean if your opponent with the great unclean one, takes all biomancy. Then he has no offense range spells. Just avoid the Green blob. He can only move 6 a turn, he cant run, just stay 12" away from him.

 NickTheButcher wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
the thing about the 30boyz bubblewrap is you cannot charge something that cannot potentially hurt it - so long as your nob stays the hell away from it and keeps denying a challenge, you arent forced to disengage (not sure how that works) since boyz cant hurt it.

Again, same thing can be done a whole lot cheaper by using Grots. That Runtherd and his prod wounding on 4+ is enough to charge.

57 points (don't have my codex, so going off memory) to neuter a MC seems like a much better tarpit than the boyz, and lets you use said boyz for krumpin' elsewhere.

Grotz aren't fearless, will run away. Also, they don't have nice things like waaaagh to get them into that charge, or a dedicated transport to get them across the board in time. UNfortunately, grots have only one place in the new codex, and that's to man the big guns/killakans

The Demon Princes are only T5 and maybe T6 for Nurgle, so they can be taken care of by enough Boyz.

davou wrote:

 NickTheButcher wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
the thing about the 30boyz bubblewrap is you cannot charge something that cannot potentially hurt it - so long as your nob stays the hell away from it and keeps denying a challenge, you arent forced to disengage (not sure how that works) since boyz cant hurt it.

Again, same thing can be done a whole lot cheaper by using Grots. That Runtherd and his prod wounding on 4+ is enough to charge.

57 points (don't have my codex, so going off memory) to neuter a MC seems like a much better tarpit than the boyz, and lets you use said boyz for krumpin' elsewhere.

Grotz aren't fearless, will run away. Also, they don't have nice things like waaaagh to get them into that charge, or a dedicated transport to get them across the board in time. UNfortunately, grots have only one place in the new codex, and that's to man the big guns/killakans

I completely forgot that was FAQ'd (it's been awhile since I've played Orks)

So with that in mind, I suppose a mob of 30 boyz would be the way to go. Maybe instead of a PK, you could use a Big Choppa to save points since they would be locked in compbat for a good portion of the game (and since you will be denying any challenges)

Anyone suggesting Killa Kans, Deff Dreads, Meganobz or non-Bike/Ghazghkull Warbosses might want to reread the Smash rule and realize what it means for their suggestions...

 Vineheart01 wrote:
the thing about the 30boyz bubblewrap is you cannot charge something that cannot potentially hurt it - so long as your nob stays the hell away from it and keeps denying a challenge, you arent forced to disengage (not sure how that works) since boyz cant hurt it.

You are never forced to disengage. You cannot assault a vehicle you cannot hurt. Otherwise it's fair game.

I'd ignore the hell out of the GUO and deal with the winged beasties first. Enough Lootas should put them down though.

Wait, you can't even declare a charge against something you cant hurt?

No, scratch that...see my edit. I should have known not to take his word for it...lol

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
the thing about the 30boyz bubblewrap is you cannot charge something that cannot potentially hurt it - so long as your nob stays the hell away from it and keeps denying a challenge, you arent forced to disengage (not sure how that works) since boyz cant hurt it.

You are never forced to disengage. You cannot assault a vehicle you cannot hurt. Otherwise it's fair game.

I'd ignore the hell out of the GUO and deal with the winged beasties first. Enough Lootas should put them down though.

You actually don't have to be able to hurt a target to charge it.

Don't use Grots, they arn't fearless.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
the thing about the 30boyz bubblewrap is you cannot charge something that cannot potentially hurt it - so long as your nob stays the hell away from it and keeps denying a challenge, you arent forced to disengage (not sure how that works) since boyz cant hurt it.

You are never forced to disengage. You cannot assault a vehicle you cannot hurt. Otherwise it's fair game.

I'd ignore the hell out of the GUO and deal with the winged beasties first. Enough Lootas should put them down though.

You actually don't have to be able to hurt a target to charge it.

If its a vehicle you do.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
the thing about the 30boyz bubblewrap is you cannot charge something that cannot potentially hurt it - so long as your nob stays the hell away from it and keeps denying a challenge, you arent forced to disengage (not sure how that works) since boyz cant hurt it.

You are never forced to disengage. You cannot assault a vehicle you cannot hurt. Otherwise it's fair game.

I'd ignore the hell out of the GUO and deal with the winged beasties first. Enough Lootas should put them down though.

You actually don't have to be able to hurt a target to charge it.

If its a vehicle you do.

BRB says you do, FAQ says you don't.

Which deals with the general Assault rules on pg 20. Then the specific rules for vehicles forbid it.

Happens all the time.

So that bloodthirster is going to be a pain, as will the DPs, but only alightly less so. He's running a flying circus list, so basically shoot his flying mcs down, then engage. If you can get the charge you're good, but keep in mind the BT is T6 with five wounds and 7 attacks on the charge.

Jesus.

First of all it's a points sink for at best a 50% chance to get the power.

Just use deffrollas and/or power klaws to kill it.

Try to multi-assault it and something else you can kill, win the combat and force daemonic instability.

If you win combat by enough to force an Instability test that has a chance of any serious damage you probably killed him with normal attacks.

That is why I said multi-assault. Beat up another unit (say horrors) and force him to take an instability test without wounding him at all.

So you will be banking on that he has another unit nearby that you can beat up.

That will work only once if he's got any skill at all. After that, he'll keep his GUO far away from other units.

 Grey Templar wrote:
So you will be banking on that he has another unit nearby that you can beat up.

That will work only once if he's got any skill at all. After that, he'll keep his GUO far away from other units.

Mistakes can be made in 40k.

 Grey Templar wrote:
So you will be banking on that he has another unit nearby that you can beat up.

That will work only once if he's got any skill at all. After that, he'll keep his GUO far away from other units.

It was the preferred tactic against TMCs in 5th. It's not like it's a new idea.
And if it worked half as often as people said it did in 5th it'll be effective in 6th.

So use some poisoned weapons. The Dark Eldar splinter weapons wound on a 4+, regardless of toughness. I think the Sternguard's Hellfire rounds or whatever (they have a poisoned one) wounds on a 2+. I think Sniper weapons wound on a 2+ too, I dunno (I don't have them in my army). 'Nids are obviously loaded with poisoned things everywhere.

You can also use Fleshbane weapons if you have them (wound on a 2+).

Anyway, the Great Unclean One is a very slow, lumbering thing, which is easily tarpitted by infantry blobs. By the time it's done killing 30 Orks, the game will probably be over. You don't have to kill the Greater Demon to win y'know; you need to fulfill the objectives in time.

remember your not gonna infantry blob a GUO. any decent player is gonna surround him with beast of nurgle. If you do not think thats a big deal re-read "attention seeker" entry on the Beast of nurgle.

Kill everything else first.

The most amusing solution: surrounding it with grots. GUO charges the grots, grots run, GUO cannot run them down because of s&p. Grots regroup rinse repeat.

Realistically tarpit it with boys. 6 attacks/turn will average about 4 dead orks with slightly above average rolls. It cannot run so if it enters combat turn 3 and goes until turn 7 that's only 28 dead orcs. Orks lose about a 200 point unit and a 300 point deamon does nothing else that game.

Unless beasts of nurgle join the fight. Best kill those first.

If the beasts join the fight, beat up the beasts for easy combat resolution and pop the GUO with Instability wounds.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
If the beasts join the fight, beat up the beasts for easy combat resolution and pop the GUO with Instability wounds.

We must play two different types of games... beast are t5, with 5++. A majority is gonna hit back. And a Guo, is going to have 6-9 attacks back, with spells from Bio. Meaning hes gonna do 4-6 perhaps 7 wounds alone.
Also remember All Nurgle have defense grenades... no charge bonus attacks.
A mob charging not getting +1 bonus attack really hurts.

anyway this is all hypothetical, but i dont see how anyone would run the GUO without a beast of nurgle escort. Or Plague drone screen at the very least.

For what its worth, i would also throw in a herald with grimoire exalted gift and try to keep pumping my GUO with a 3+ invul.

I like the thought of a GUO losing wounds do to DI, i just dont see it happening. So i state again, as stated earlier in this discussion. Poison, or ID attacks are your best bet against a GUO.

Or another DP


Cheers.

T5 with a 5+ save with 4 wounds, at 52 points per model. The save being invulnerable is meaningless. 29 Orks 87 attacks, for 58 hits and 9 or 10 wounds, which it might save 3, inflicting 6, which kills at least 1 beast. Meanwhile, the beasts kill 1 ork each. The Nob gets obliterated by the GD in a challenge, so unless there are at least 4 beasts, the orks win combat, and Instability kicks in.

Even with Shoota Boyz, the orks take 58 swings, land 38 hits, do 6 wounds, get 2 saved and kill 1 beast, requiring there to be at least 2 beasts in the unit to draw the combat.

Assuming he gets Warp Speed and Iron Arm, and casts both of them, he's a minimum of 215 points, along with 104 points for the 2 beasts to draw against Shoota Boyz, or 208 points to draw against Slugga Boyz.

Needing 6s to wound is the only thing that even remotely slows the orks down.. If you can keep the beasts out by assaulting them with something like a unit of Deffkoptas or warbikes, and can instead multi-assault into something like plaguebearers, the GUO is done. You just need a character to feed the greater daemon and a massive punching bag unit to pour wounds into.

.

Beast are I2, they go same time as orks. A unit of 6 does 6d6+6 attacks. Whats average? 27 hits? Thats 13-14 wounds, orks save 2 maybe 3.... thats 11-12 wounds by my calculations. ( i know their 52 points a model, but you run 6. I run 6 drones currently and they are 52 (with upgrades) also and well worth it) But you are correct there does have to be 5+. I mean why bother running anything less if your a nurgle player.

Not to mention if you some how do win combat.. its by 1 or 2... hell lets say 5 (which is very unlikely, i'd bet non existent...) but lets say he loses by 5. That makes his leadership a 4. Average roll on 2d6 is 7... so the Guo takes 3 wounds from DI (hes still there)... Next round, nite nite orks. No more challenges.

I mean we can throw math back and fourth, but if we are then lets do it from a non-favorable standpoint. Nurgle players will run more then 4 beast and Beast kill more then 5 orks...

Poison, Instant death weapons, or another GD is the way to kill that GUO. assuming you are gonna ally.

Also the Default nurgle spell, kills 2 orcs on the way in. If he rolled plague wind on the GUO. He would be ecstatic to see mobs of orks on the table (12" range, str1, ap2, poison 4 large blast) And he surrounds the GUO with the Beast and swarms so you cant even charge him if he gets to within 12".

Original poster, Look for things that dont require h2h Is my advice. Assuming you don't want to ally anything. Using strictly orcs? Drive by wrecking ball/hammers. Bomb Squigs, Dakka jets on the wagghhh. Deff Rollers, or lootas are superior then relying on 30 orcs.

This is also assuming your opponent IS screening his GUO, or has a Beast of nurgle unit nearby.

But even if he is in the open and you charge 30 orks. Hes gonna challenge you, sending your nob to the rear. He goes first and kills 5 orks. Thats 50 attacks back from you, if he has the Eternal Blade, which he should. He could make you be hitting on 5's.. Assuming he doesnt get the bonus 3 WS. you hit 25 times. You wound on 6's? (are orks str 3). You do 4 wounds. He saves 1, you are fearless. Hes gonna send help, if he doesn't, He challenges again sending your nob to the rear. killing 5 more orks on i4, you come back with 40 attacks, 20 hits, 3-4 wounds. So you may get him in 2 rounds. Maybe, if dice are with you. I highly doubt it. H2H is not the way for orks on this guy.

312 points of beasts plus a 215 point GUO that got the exact 2 powers it needed is a decent chunk of an army . At that point, no 30 orks won't handle it, but 500 points of shoota boyz is 60 orks and 2 power klaw nobz, with room to spare for a warboss with a power klaw.

58 orks throw 116 hits into the beasts for 19 wounds. The beasts save 6, take 12, and lose 3 beasts. They inflict 15 hits, for about 11 wounds back to the orks, killing 9 orks. The Nob adds 1 or 2 more with his power klaw, and the warboss adds 3 more S10 power klaw wounds after invuls. All told, the orks lose 11 wounds, inflict 26, and unless the GUO rolls snake-eyes, it dies outright to combat resolution, as do the other beasts.

Beasts are a neat idea, but they are a liability for greater daemons, and way, way too pricey to be used in large numbers.


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Why decline the challenge? Losing the nob doesn't break you. Losing the nob means he stays in combat with a mob of Boyz an extra round, giving you more time to kill the rest of the daemons.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
312 points of beasts plus a 215 point GUO that got the exact 2 powers it needed is a decent chunk of an army . At that point, no 30 orks won't handle it, but 500 points of shoota boyz is 60 orks and 2 power klaw nobz, with room to spare for a warboss with a power klaw.

58 orks throw 116 hits into the beasts for 19 wounds. The beasts save 6, take 12, and lose 3 beasts. They inflict 15 hits, for about 11 wounds back to the orks, killing 9 orks. The Nob adds 1 or 2 more with his power klaw, and the warboss adds 3 more S10 power klaw wounds after invuls. All told, the orks lose 11 wounds, inflict 26, and unless the GUO rolls snake-eyes, it dies outright to combat resolution, as do the other beasts.

Beasts are a neat idea, but they are a liability for greater daemons, and way, way too pricey to be used in large numbers.


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Why decline the challenge? Losing the nob doesn't break you. Losing the nob means he stays in combat with a mob of Boyz an extra round, giving you more time to kill the rest of the daemons.

We disagree with the usefulness and effectiveness on the beast them selves.

I run 3 daemons, 6 plague at 52 each, another fast attack with 15 models in the unit, some chariots and 3 troop choices in my 1850.

but we do agree on how many orks it takes to get to the center or a lolipop. LOL

And you are right about accepting the challenge it does tie it up another round. but when the orks finally lose, you dont want to lose on ork turn. ( also: do orks needs the nob alive for the mob rule, i honestly dont know?)

But honestly If GUO rolls one spell on the nurgle table, hes gonna love to see big units or orks no matter which one it is.

The great unclean one, isn't a unit for killing, it's a unit for tieing up, and hunting down very dangerous stuff with. The way to counter it, is to do exactly what it's not built for, which is killing weak hordes.

While you have no reliable access to instant death as orks, you do have models in abundance, so tie it up, and resign yourself to the fact that you are very unlikely to get slay the warlord.

Tieing up also works against all the other greater daemons, but they will have a better chance at chewing through orks, particularly the keeper of secret's, which is practically built for mowing it's way through cheap infantry.

In short, you will have an easier time with them than the average marine player for instance, due to an abundance of disposable troops.

What you would be hurt by most, is a lord of change, as it packs a metric ton of weaker shot's while it is flying, rather than a small number of high strength hit's while it is in combat. Fear the lord of change.

How many points is this thing worth?


Seems like if you wanted min points to kill the thing... send a biker boss after him.. 145-160 points vs.

or for a little more security thanks to the rerolls from get em boss, warboss backed by lots of boys/grots.... 235 points if you have a boss and 30 grots vs.


or in big games, send a few bosses at him, decline challenge and 1 round drown him in S10 PK attacks. (I would charge the bosses in solo, not as a unit, in case you lose so he doesn't sweep entire unit in a single roll in event you yahtzee to hit rolls)

Except that Orks are T4, so your odds of doing a huge amount of damage with Rancid Visitations is pretty small.

Edit: If you want to kill hordes, bring a Lord of Change with a Staff of Change.

When it comes down to it, the GUO with upgrades, is now the single most survivable model in the game. Not the most dangerous by a long shot, but the most survivable.

The enemy is counting on you wasting resources trying to kill it. Don't play into their hands

I play it myself, and It's just bliss to see entire armies waste their shooting at it, for it to take maybe one wound or two max most times. Gives the rest of my army the time it needs.

 Evileyes wrote:
When it comes down to it, the GUO with upgrades, is now the single most survivable model in the game. Not the most dangerous by a long shot, but the most survivable.

I'd argue that Fateweaver when combined with the Grimoire of True Names effect is more survivable. An FMC with a 2++ that rerolls all save rolls of 1, with T5 and 5 (?) wounds is going to take forever to kill.

Why would you put a Nob with a Power Klaw in a tarpit unit?

That's a giant waste of points. The whole point is you want 20 Fearless wounds. Anything else would be pointless. There's nothing else in the Ork Codex that could hope to kill a GUO. They've given us the best tarpit unit out of any Codex, and you want to ruin it with a Power Fist?

Frankly, everything that's scary should be dealt with this way. 30 Ork Boyz. If he gets through that many, give him 30 more.

release the shock attack gun! why havent any said it yet, get that double six and toss it back into the warp! (small chanse but big fun)

because the SAG is unreliable as hell. I rarely put it on a single model unless its within a reasonable scater distance of other models or its the only thing in sight.

I just had a game where turn 1 (well, 2 i couldnt fire turn 1 cuz of nightfighting) i rolled snakeyes and wiped out half my ADL gunline i had set up. No idea how pissed i was.

Poison, Instant death weapons, or another GD is the way to kill that GUO. assuming you are gonna ally.

I will have Necron allies available, but Dark Eldar is also a possibility. Specifically a Destroyer Lord (with any gear), and Necron destroyers or heavy destroyers. Plus my Tin 'eads if he lets me use them.

Is a Nob needed for Mob Rule

Pretty sure it isn't.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
because the SAG is unreliable as hell. I rarely put it on a single model unless its within a reasonable scater distance of other models or its the only thing in sight.

I just had a game where turn 1 (well, 2 i couldnt fire turn 1 cuz of nightfighting) i rolled snakeyes and wiped out half my ADL gunline i had set up. No idea how pissed i was.

I hear ya. I remember a game in 5th where my Bomb squiq blew up a Trukk loaded with Boyz. Explosion killed 7 boyz. After that I added more blue paint to my army and stopped using bomb squigs.

Dem' Orks can be really unpredictable....but fun

No, Mob Rule is an ork rule for all orks. Only vehicles and grots lack it (they took it off the Runtherder i believe to avoid confusion about him being with 30+ models anyway). Nob is not needed for that.

Runtherder's default wargear remove 1 attack in btb. 3 herders equals minus 3 attack to a min. of 1. Could slow something big down?

Geezeso far everyone has skipped around my favorite Killing tarpit ..

30 Gretchin ..3 Runtheredz with Grot Prods..Mod Dok ...

Its pricey yes but its a situational Group ..its fearless and has rage ..it has several poison attacks ..and it has FNP ..yea so you will lose 4-9 grotz total ..but in 1-2 turns whatever its fighting is DEAD ...(10 poison attacks/turn)



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6 at ws 4 and 4 at ws 5 .

insead of Mad Doc you can use old Zog and either turn him into a squig or get a random number of additional poison attacks at 2+ ...either way hes dead before you have to make a leadership roll ..


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Hmn yep Mad Dok and the Grotz is the better choice ..they should have your nurgle deamon dead in one round and will then run to the next group and kill it ..This tarpit will keep going till its dead then Mad Dok joins the next blobby group and keeps the charge rolling ...

The GUO is going to either rip those ICs a new one or force them out of the challenges. That's not a good idea at all and, as has been mentioned, you can't Squigify the GUO since it's not an IC.

If the great unclean one can Issue challenges he is an Independat character .and therefore subject to be turned into a squiggy ...(see page 64 first line ..only a character can issue a challenge)
.other wise he cant do challenges ..simple easy peasy
.then yea so he makes mad dok not fight so its 6 Poison attacks might take two turns to kill him ..he still dies

Independent character does not equal character. Characters issue challenges. ICs can be squigged...

morfydd wrote:
If the great unclean one can Issue challenges he is an Independat character .and therefore subject to be turned into a squiggy ...(see page 64 first line ..only a character can issue a challenge)
.other wise he cant do challenges ..simple easy peasy
.then yea so he makes mad dok not fight so its 6 Poison attacks might take two turns to kill him ..he still dies

...Independent Character is a special rule, Character is a rule which is common to all Independent Characters, but not every Character is an Independent Character (eg, sergeants, Mephiston, Hive Tyrants, etc).