Hi all,

Version 6.1 is now out; attached below.

6.1 is largely 6.0 with better formatting. 6.2 should bring revisions and additions to fluff, alongside multiple special characters.

Cheers,

Disty

Dude, looking forward to it, I love to see fans doing stuff instead of GW, lol. Ok, I'll play; does it include any kind of Sphess Meehhhreeens?

Yay! I got a bite

*Ahem* I meant to say...

No.

Is this going to be a Fandex for an existing Faction (or part of a faction, e.g. a Chapter or Craftworld) who do not have a dedicated codex currently?

No.

Is it for an outdated (as in terminated) Warhammer 40k force? (Squats, Malal specific chaos force ect..)

No.

(Although you touched upon a related aspect!)

Are you creating your own race? (this has caught my attention, I likes me some puzzle games)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or does it have something to do with Malal? ( I love his story just wish he would come back)

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
Are you creating your own race? (this has caught my attention, I likes me some puzzle games)

Strictly speaking, no.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
Or does it have something to do with Malal? ( I love his story just wish he would come back)

Malal may play a part in proceedings... Although I've taken massive liberties with both his backstory and the 40k lore in general, so no promises that you'll like it!

hmmm.... So its an existing race then? does it have its own codex, or is it just a portion of a codex (ie you can make sallies from the SM dex but they don't have their own) OR is it the fallen Dark Angles?

Yes/No/Maybe only Thatguyhsagun

Muwhahahah

dang it... ok:
Is it an existing codex? If no, an existing race?
Is it the Fallen Dark Angles?

No. Yes. No.

Ok so not space marines...
Is it a Tau Empire race?

No.

Is it a race that has shown up in rumors within the last year?

Good example is Demiurg.

I wasn't aware the Demiurg were rumours were as recent as a year ago! I'm going to say a hesitant no.

Feth this is secret... is it in the fluff of any of the dexes?

Yes.

Is it xenos?
Is it EoM?

Yes.
No.

So its not tau, is it any form of eldar?

No.

(Also I'm off to bed so don't expect a further reply until later)

P.s. Thanks for the enthusiasm!

God dang...so to recap:
No Sphes Marhines
No IoM
Not Tau
Not Eldar
Is it a Tyranid unit? if so,perhaps the old genestealer cults?

Better recap:

Race currently exists within fluff.
Fandex does not cover a faction with a currently supported codex.
Fandex is Xeno in origin, not IoM.

Going to ask a couple of questions here:
Does the 'faction' represented by the fandex have representations in more than one codex?
Does the 'faction' represented by the fandex appear in more than one Games Workshop official book? (Black Library is included)
Does the 'faction' represented by the fandex have any 'official' models (which is to say, produced by Games Workshop or Forge World)?

And a couple of guesses:
Slann?
Hrud?
Slaugth?
Megarachnid?
Old Ones?
Jokaero?!?

Huh some of those I have forgotten about. Aren't slann from WHFB?
As for the questions, you phrased them much better than I could have (the book and model question are the reason I came back to the thread) I'm really looking fwd to seeing this fandex

Thatguysagun wrote:
Is it a Tyranid unit? if so,perhaps the old genestealer cults?

No.

Nice recap Prince, as for your questions:

PrinceOfMadness wrote:
Does the 'faction' represented by the fandex have representations in more than one codex?

Maybe (I'm going to assume representation is anything and codex is not necessarily current)

PrinceOfMadness wrote:
Does the 'faction' represented by the fandex appear in more than one Games Workshop official book? (Black Library is included)

Yes.

PrinceOfMadness wrote:
Does the 'faction' represented by the fandex have any 'official' models (which is to say, produced by Games Workshop or Forge World)?

No.

PrinceOfMadness wrote:
And a couple of guesses:
Slann?
Hrud?
Slaugth?
Megarachnid?
Old Ones?
Jokaero?!?

Your grape shot approach has paid dividends but I'll also answer in a similar manner. Four clear misses, one hit firmly in the fluff and the other is a direct hit, sinking my battleship.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
Aren't slann from WHFB?

They are, the Old ones are often considered their 40K mirror.

Oh, please let it be Slaugh! We all like maggot-creatures that eat faces, don't we?

In all seriousness, I'll be looking out for this.

Painbiro wrote:
Oh, please let it be Slaugh! We all like maggot-creatures that eat faces, don't we?

In all seriousness, I'll be looking out for this.

Damn right we do! Sadly though it's not the Slaugh.

Is it the Hrud? A Hrud force worshipping Malal? Is it true that the Hrudworship a C'tan (heard that somewhere)?

will it include these? http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:Umbra_in_battle.jpg

My money's on Megarachnids though, almost unheard of, don't have a model (but starship troopers "bugs" would fit the bill ), ruling out Slann and Jokaero, he said it wasn't Slaugth, and Hrud seem too uniform imho. As for the Old Ones, would be impossible to do a good dex for a race that can just Create an entire race (or two) of beings to fight for them.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
As for the Old Ones, would be impossible to do a good dex for a race that can just Create an entire race (or two)

Or three...

 disty wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
As for the Old Ones, would be impossible to do a good dex for a race that can just Create an entire race (or two)

Or three...

It would be a truly amazing dex... like tervigons but with armies instead of 2d6 units...

I wanty Hruds, Space Skavens FTW !
because if it's skaven, you can include as many obscure and easy to misinterpret rules as you want

TanKoL wrote:
I wanty Hruds, Space Skavens FTW !
because if it's skaven, you can include as many obscure and easy to misinterpret rules as you want

Skaven are cowardly, Hruds seem more like ogres imho. big, ugly and dangerous Also, skaven are steampunk-techies whereas Hrud don't seem to have any tech at all (at least 10,000 years ago...)

TanKoL wrote:
I wanty Hruds, Space Skavens FTW !
because if it's skaven, you can include as many obscure and easy to misinterpret rules as you want

Haha! On reflection that's probably closer to the truth than I'd like to admit!

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
Skaven are cowardly, Hruds seem more like ogres imho. big, ugly and dangerous Also, skaven are steampunk-techies whereas Hrud don't seem to have any tech at all (at least 10,000 years ago...)

Hrud are stated to be quite diminutive and cowardly, originally thought of as "Space Skaven", although GW tried to distance the two later on. According to GW fluff their technology is based around using junk although the Fusil rifles are a piece of tech the imperium can't recreate and covert them greatly for their quality.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Is it the Hrud? A Hrud force worshipping Malal? Is it true that the Hrudworship a C'tan (heard that somewhere)?

will it include these? http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:Umbra_in_battle.jpg

Sorry Alex, somehow I completely missed your post!

It is indeed the Hrud. They don't technically worship Malal, at least not the majority of them, but there is a pact. There is a Cult dedicated to Qah, which is intrinsic to Malal, but they're more puppet like than anything.

The Umbra are most certainly an option! They come in two flavours: Shades and Shadows.

Edit: Ninja'd! Partial credit for grapeshot guessing?

PrinceOfMadness wrote:
Edit: Ninja'd! Partial credit for grapeshot guessing?

Haha, everyone gets credit for their sterling work!

Now... If only I could figure out how to change the thread's title...

Edit the first post

You can change the subject there.

Hah, found it, thanks! Not sure why but I was expecting something a little more complicated there.

Ok, we should start with the basic troops. Are they close combat or shooty? Elite or hoarde? Armour save? Ward save?

From what i know about Hrud, this is my idea.

Combat-y, with upgrade to a gun from a few points.
They would be a bit of both, think dark eldar points. about 9 pts. Bad armour save, relying on cover. maybe an army-wide 6+ ward and army wide stealth.

I would think they should be BS 3, because although its not shown much BS4 is superhuman, for very good creatures.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Ok, we should start with the basic troops. Are they close combat or shooty? Elite or hoarde? Armour save? Ward save?

From what i know about Hrud, this is my idea.

Combat-y, with upgrade to a gun from a few points.
They would be a bit of both, think dark eldar points. about 9 pts. Bad armour save, relying on cover. maybe an army-wide 6+ ward and army wide stealth.

I would think they should be BS 3, because although its not shown much BS4 is superhuman, for very good creatures.

Hah, actually quite scary! I've already fleshed out all the units and points cost. The "basic troops" so to speak, which I've called Hrud Animals, have the following profile:

WS: 3
BS: 3
S: 2
T: 2
W: 1
I: 3
A: 1
Ld: 8
Sv: 6++ (inv)

Points: 5

Unit size: 10-30

There's a few special rules they have including stealth.

So we agree on quite a few points!

Although I've kept them pretty squishy with a pretty piss poor gun (Scavanged firearms: Range 12" Str3 AP - Assault)
Their strength lies in cheap fodder, with a few nasty surprises hidden amongst their ranks....

I remember reading a bit about the Hrud from heresy background (the Iron Warriors killed a load of them just before finding out that Olympia had rebelled if I recall).

I will be interested to see what comes of this.

maybe make a packmaster-esque squad leader who pushes them forward? With, say a "poking stick(ccw)"? and id say give the guns 24" range to at least be up to standard with most other codex's base firearms (cant think of one for less than 24 actually, unless you count cultists but if it is an upgrade maybe make it 24"?) Any ideas for HQ/Elite based units? those would be interesting to see

A phrase about great minds comes to me, but for the life of me can't remember it

They are....very weak. While i dont see the full rules they look very weak to fire. Im also not sure what they want to do, tarpitting with numbers wont work because they arn't fearless, they will be run down. God knows they arn't shooters or will be good in CC.

I think they NEED a delivery of some sort, inflatrate sounds like a good place to start. Even being that weak a hoarde of 30 showing up close to your army in area terrain would be a bit worrying. Also i have an idea to make them a bit of a threat in CC. To represent there entropic field any enemy model in base contact with a Hrud at the end of an assult phase must roll a dice, on a 6 they take a wound. And maybe something like a 5+ poisen in CC, this would take them up to say 6 points. Because there is still the MASSIVE problem of losing combat and being run down.

Eldar shuriken catapults and avenger catapults both have less than 24" range (12" and 18" respectively) and are basic firearms (hopefully this will be remedied in their next codex).

Also I believe shootas are 18" assault 2.

How about keeping hrud weapons short ranged (12-18") but let them run and shoot as in the fluff Hrud are supposed to be super agile aren't they?

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
maybe make a packmaster-esque squad leader who pushes them forward? With, say a "poking stick(ccw)"? and id say give the guns 24" range to at least be up to standard with most other codex's base firearms (cant think of one for less than 24 actually, unless you count cultists but if it is an upgrade maybe make it 24"?) Any ideas for HQ/Elite based units? those would be interesting to see

I'm not altering any of the units yet; I'll drop it and see how it's received. I've got so much work on my hands as it is (currently day two at work, not actually doing any work, just revising the draft!)

I've tried to focus on synergy within the 'dex itself so not everything will be obvious until it's released. The main strength of the Animal unit is they're the only way to purchase "Chanters" (up to three per squad) who can deal some serious damage. Also for every 10 animals one can be equipped with a pseudo-powerweapon/fist.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
A phrase about great minds comes to me, but for the life of me can't remember it

They are....very weak. While i dont see the full rules they look very weak to fire. Im also not sure what they want to do, tarpitting with numbers wont work because they arn't fearless, they will be run down. God knows they arn't shooters or will be good in CC.

I think they NEED a delivery of some sort, inflatrate sounds like a good place to start. Even being that weak a hoarde of 30 showing up close to your army in area terrain would be a bit worrying. Also i have an idea to make them a bit of a threat in CC. To represent there entropic field any enemy model in base contact with a Hrud at the end of an assult phase must roll a dice, on a 6 they take a wound. And maybe something like a 5+ poisen in CC, this would take them up to say 6 points. Because there is still the MASSIVE problem of losing combat and being run down.

Haha, great minds indeed
They're a pretty basic unit, and fairly cheap! In isolation I can see why people would worry but I think once you see the mechanics behind the Chanters you'll see they're capable of robust survivability combined with becoming a slightly worrying sight for your opponent if they come too close. There's very few entries in 'dex that are amazing in isolation, I wanted to create something a bit more nuanced, not just point and click.

rohansoldier wrote:How about keeping hrud weapons short ranged (12-18") but let them run and shoot as in the fluff Hrud are supposed to be super agile aren't they?

I think they're fairly agile yes. The 12" was intended to reflect their ability to see during the day coupled with their weak frame; essentially just carrying cut down guns and pistols. There is also army wide night-fighting.

*Edited for spelling and clarity of thought, someone shouted "HOME TIME." and I immediately hit post and ran for the exit *

Your making hrud!? awesome! I cant wait to playtest them!

Hi guys,

Just thought I'd post a quick update: about 70% of the 'dex's revision is complete. Still loads to do and I'm probably behind where I wanted to be but luckily I have the next two days off work so time to push on!

KOVAV wrote:
Your making hrud!? awesome! I cant wait to playtest them!

Excellent! It's going to need a lot of play testing; I can roll dice by myself all I want, it doesn't come close to the level of testing it really requires.

I'll send some PM's out to people involved in this thread as I require some names for Imperial guard commanders and the such like! I can't see many usable usernames so if people are happy to give me their real (possibly partial) names I'll incorporate them somehow.

KOVAV... Nah... Vavok... That works Congratulations, you're now (backwards) a famous weapon!

 disty wrote:
Excellent! It's going to need a lot of play testing; I can roll dice by myself all I want, it doesn't come close to the level of testing it really requires.

I'll send some PM's out to people involved in this thread as I require some names for Imperial guard commanders and the such like! I can't see many usable usernames so if people are happy to give me their real (possibly partial) names I'll incorporate them somehow.

KOVAV... Nah... Vavok... That works Congratulations, you're now (backwards) a famous weapon!

DIBS!!! Sargent major Alex Walace ready to push his armoured collum into the Hrud infestation

Also i'd love to see a sneek preview of the Umbra, im wondering where they will fit into the FoC. They could easily be a HQ like the avatar, or an elite choice like dreadnoughts or a heavy like a trygon. I take it they are going to be monsterous creatures right? They look pritty monsterous in the picture

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:


DIBS!!! Sargent major Alex Walace ready to push his armoured collum into the Hrud infestation

Also i'd love to see a sneek preview of the Umbra, im wondering where they will fit into the FoC. They could easily be a HQ like the avatar, or an elite choice like dreadnoughts or a heavy like a trygon. I take it they are going to be monsterous creatures right? They look pritty monsterous in the picture

Haha, sadly there's no such heroics up for grabs! There's either the story of an arrogant Commander who pays the price for his pride or a quote from a rather unsympathetic Commissar

If neither of those sound to your liking I can hold Commander Walace in reserve until something else comes up? Ohhh, now I think about it I've not added a name for the Commander of the Mordant Acid dogs!

As for your request, well they've been done so I don't see why not (C&P'd directly from word so formatting may bit a little ropey!):

Shade of Qah

When the gods of chaos collectively pounced upon the isolated Qah they tore through the old god like a pack of primitive beasts, shredding its carcass into tiny shards and scattering the remains like flotsam throughout the warp. Over millennia these remnants garnered stray warp energy, allowing the fragments to coalesce together. Eventually these pieces reach a critical mass, manifesting a nascent sentience and rediscovered purpose. Once they’ve attained a certain size they can be sensed by His Voice and drawn through the Warp and into the Materium.

Shades of Qah are as bafflingly beautiful to behold as they are horrifically unnerving to fight. Perfect spheres of glossy, polished, pitch black glass that float a few feet above the ground, they move without sound. Physically they display the properties of a viscous fluid, able to manipulate and compress its form into any shape it desires whilst maintaining the ability to solidify instantaneously if required. This ability allows them to flow across the battlefield, hindered by neither the densest of natural barriers nor nigh impregnable fortifications.

Its objectives are survival and reunification and to this end the Shades hide themselves in the deepest recesses of the warren, commonly lining the walls of the Sanctum, giving the appearance of a shiny tar like fluid. Despite this mandate the shades are often found on the battlefield. A Chaos god’s lust for conflict doesn’t diminish with death and it’s this desire that drives them to into the maelstrom of battle, comforted by the knowledge that if the Hrud survive and propagate, more will be summoned.

Those survivors who’ve fought the Umbra before recognise the need to engage from afar; without a method of ranged attack they’re more easily dealt with at distance. Their bizarre ability to absorb or quell direct energy weapons provides such an effective counter measure that weapon saturation is advised; generals who don’t prioritise this foe often pay the ultimate price for they can close a gap with frightening speed and are a lethal adversity in close quarters.
When toe to toe with its opponents the shade manipulates and solidifies its form into hooks, jagged hands and wrapping tentacles, ferociously targeting exposed flesh and chinks in armour. These attacks are delivered from any part of its spherical body, appearing without indication or predictable direction, making it impossible to gain an advantage on the faceless mass. Only the highest of skilled combatants can expect to rely upon their martial prowess to best a shade; for everyone else there’s only hope their armour holds out against the hail of disorientating blows.

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
6 0 5 5 3 6 4 10 4++


“Umbra” is an umbrella term for both Shades and Shadows of Qah. Any reference to Umbra refers to both units.

• Rending • Ignorance is bliss (Page..)
• Fleet • Fearless
• Counter-attack
• A Taste of Home – Any psyker within 12” of an Umbra takes psychic tests on 3D6. Any wound taken from Perils of the Warp attacks within 12” of an Umbra model also restores a wound to the Umbra unit. If more than one Umbra unit is present the Hrud player may freely decide which model gains the wound.

Oh I should add, these guys are infantry in the Elites section and currently at 150 points for a squad of three; no options. I've been toying increasing rending up to full blown ignores armour but such a decision would have to be made later after some play testing! (Shadows are in Heavy and most certainly are Monstrous creatures.)

Love the fluff for them. The stat-line is good but im feeling they need something...more. Something to give them an edge in combat, other-wise things like this tend to suffer from Ogryn syndrome. A few options would be shrouded to get it to combat in one piece, also means having a big unit would work well. Maybe a tyranid like lash whip (everything in base contact goes to I 1) would make it a good deathstar unit. On that note can Hrud IC join the shades?

Also Loving the Taste of Home ability, really characterful and helpful for a army with little psy-defence. This ability wont come into play however till at least turn 2-3, i was thinking maybe you could make them jump troops to make them fast outriders to the Hrud force, drawing fire onto there 4++.

Really good, you've got me excited for the full version

They seem a bit OP to me. Especially if you add "ignores armour saves". Do they need to be INT 6? Or STR 5? Or WS 6? To me, a shapeshifting blob like that would be more "a buckload of weak attacks" than any of that. Then again I don't know the fluff behind the Hrud except to say fuckyesspaceskavenitsaboutbloodytime!

Like the guy above me, I reckon ToH is a great rule.

Post more, fandexes are one of the few things I still enjoy in this hobby. But seriously, why not upgrade to 6th edition before you release?

Well, the umbra are shardes of a god. So, the closest comparisons will be the C'tan shardes and the avatar of Khain, care to look at there profiles? Now look at these, do they still look OP? By that standard they should be kicking at least WS 8 and S6 T7. Also, i dont think they will get ignore armour, they dont need it. rending is enough, it also makes them kickass against vehicals, i dont know if this was intended. Rolling a 6 means 11+d3, easily penning most back armour, not a bad thing, just pointing it out.

So, yeah the stats are justified. I just dont know where he will start with the points, most homebrew units have a starting point then add points for extra stuff. I can't imagin anything close to these but i'd be imagining around 60 pts each.

AlexisAwsome,
You suggest they need something "more".

They have an ability "ignorance is bliss" which we are ignorant of the effect off. They might already have "more"!

Disty,

I love the idea, and am quite excited! I have allways liked the Hrud stuff, I hadn't heard of those Umbra, but they are also very, very cool.

Will they get some sort of unit that blows itself up? I allways felt that kamakazis were sort of missing from 40k.

Woah! Loads of action

Right I'll multiquote and go through some of the points.

ALEXisAWESOME wrote:Love the fluff for them. The stat-line is good but im feeling they need something...more. Something to give them an edge in combat, other-wise things like this tend to suffer from Ogryn syndrome. A few options would be shrouded to get it to combat in one piece, also means having a big unit would work well. Maybe a tyranid like lash whip (everything in base contact goes to I 1) would make it a good deathstar unit. On that note can Hrud IC join the shades?

Also Loving the Taste of Home ability, really characterful and helpful for a army with little psy-defence. This ability wont come into play however till at least turn 2-3, i was thinking maybe you could make them jump troops to make them fast outriders to the Hrud force, drawing fire onto there 4++.

Really good, you've got me excited for the full version

It's a difficult one to gauge; I wanted them to be devastating in combat, mincing though everything but the most dedicated of assault troops. However if I combined this with the ability to easily get there in a flash then I'd feel they'd be a little unbalanced, there should be certain units you'd look at and think "I don't fancy my chances alone, best back them up". Keep these ideas though and if they fail abysmally in play testing they'll be bumped up

Also there's no reason why IC's can't join, although only one Hrud IC has fleet.

Dakkamite wrote:They seem a bit OP to me. Especially if you add "ignores armour saves". Do they need to be INT 6? Or STR 5? Or WS 6? To me, a shapeshifting blob like that would be more "a buckload of weak attacks" than any of that. Then again I don't know the fluff behind the Hrud except to say fuckyesspaceskavenitsaboutbloodytime!

Like the guy above me, I reckon ToH is a great rule.

Post more, fandexes are one of the few things I still enjoy in this hobby. But seriously, why not upgrade to 6th edition before you release?

Haha, underpowered and OP, I actually find this quite reassuring! I wanted them to be a bit OP for their points in combat but getting there was an intentional problem, so I'm going to take this as a promising sign. The WS6 I6 is to represent how difficult they are to fight; you throw a punch, it moves the goal and clips you round the ear for good measure. STR5 because I felt it reflects a powerful entity but not monsterously powerful (marines STR4; Lictor STR6).

Haha, well I'll be the first to say the fluff is bastardised in places; the (my) Hrud in general aren't anything like the Skaven, more of an Ant colony (They also breed giant ants, but more on that later..). The Skaven element definitely comes into play with the Gifted sub cult, the rest of the warren gets on rather amiably (sorry!)

As for why I haven't updated it, well if anyone wanted to play it with 5e they can! Plus, I know many of you are thinking this whole two week thing is just me being a bit lazy but the current dex stands at (not including a few filler stories): 111 pages, 43,877 words (yes I got carried away). Hopefully I'll have a bit more time when it's released to take a step back, gain feedback and then tweak it all, bringing it in line.

Dast wrote:AlexisAwsome,
You suggest they need something "more".

They have an ability "ignorance is bliss" which we are ignorant of the effect off. They might already have "more"!

Disty,

I love the idea, and am quite excited! I have allways liked the Hrud stuff, I hadn't heard of those Umbra, but they are also very, very cool.

Will they get some sort of unit that blows itself up? I allways felt that kamakazis were sort of missing from 40k.

Ah yes, Ignorance is Bliss! That's in the Shadows entry (So both of their entries didn't spill over a page):

•Ignorance is bliss – The Umbra treats all area terrain as open ground. They may also move directly though impassable terrain but may not end their movement phase inside of it.

Haha, the blow-yourself-up unit is one of my considerations for a 6e slot, although making it work effectively could prove troublesome...

ALEXisAWESOME wrote:Well, the umbra are shardes of a god. So, the closest comparisons will be the C'tan shardes and the avatar of Khain, care to look at there profiles? Now look at these, do they still look OP? By that standard they should be kicking at least WS 8 and S6 T7. Also, i dont think they will get ignore armour, they dont need it. rending is enough, it also makes them kickass against vehicals, i dont know if this was intended. Rolling a 6 means 11+d3, easily penning most back armour, not a bad thing, just pointing it out.

So, yeah the stats are justified. I just dont know where he will start with the points, most homebrew units have a starting point then add points for extra stuff. I can't imagin anything close to these but i'd be imagining around 60 pts each.

Str 5 rending was indeed intentionally to help with vehicles. As for the increased stats, WS8 doesn't do an awful lot in terms of mechanics unless paired against other ultra high WS models, STR6 and T7 encroaches into the Shadows territory! The points cost was in the previous post; 150 for three, no more, no less, no addons *hides from sight*

As a side note just wanted to thank you all for your input so far, looking forward to everyone getting their teeth into it!

 disty wrote:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Ok, we should start with the basic troops. Are they close combat or shooty? Elite or hoarde? Armour save? Ward save?

From what i know about Hrud, this is my idea.

Combat-y, with upgrade to a gun from a few points.
They would be a bit of both, think dark eldar points. about 9 pts. Bad armour save, relying on cover. maybe an army-wide 6+ ward and army wide stealth.

I would think they should be BS 3, because although its not shown much BS4 is superhuman, for very good creatures.

Hah, actually quite scary! I've already fleshed out all the units and points cost. The "basic troops" so to speak, which I've called Hrud Animals, have the following profile:
HRUD/Gretchin
WS: 3/2
BS: 3/3
S: 2/2
T: 2/2
W: 1/1
I: 3/2
A: 1/1
Ld: 8/5
Sv: 6++ (inv)/-

Points: 5

Unit size: 10-30

There's a few special rules they have including stealth.

So we agree on quite a few points!

Although I've kept them pretty squishy with a pretty piss poor gun (Scavanged firearms: Range 12" Str3 AP - Assault)
Their strength lies in cheap fodder, with a few nasty surprises hidden amongst their ranks....

"Assault": make it assault 2. then it'd be virtually the same as a shotgun. + read a story featuring the Hrud, it claimed (vague-ish) that the Hrud had basic rifles that fired many rounds. by being assault - or assault 1 it is worse than s shotgun (by 1 shot) it'd make your Hrud basic infantry more worthwhile to actually field them. kind of a cheap "perk" if you take them over some other more elite/expensively equipped units. the way they are with that example profile looks like a grot with slightly better weapons and profile and 2pts more in cost for basic infantry with an INv save at 5 points per basic trooper seems too cheap in points. STR/T 2 isn't going to do much either. at STR 3 ranged 12" AP- Assault 1 also means they probably wont actually shoot anything maybe replace "rifle" on these infantry with close combat weapons and a pistol or increase range to 18" and make it assault 2, keeping it Str 3. just an idea.

 Orkimedes1000 wrote:

HRUD/Gretchin/Guardsman
WS: 3/2/3
BS: 3/3/3
S: 2/2/3
T: 2/2/3
W: 1/1/1
I: 3/2/3
A: 1/1/1
Ld: 8/5/7
Sv: 6++/-/5+
Pts: 5/3/5

Unit size: 10-30


"Assault": make it assault 2. then it'd be virtually the same as a shotgun. + read a story featuring the Hrud, it claimed (vague-ish) that the Hrud had basic rifles that fired many rounds. by being assault - or assault 1 it is worse than s shotgun (by 1 shot) it'd make your Hrud basic infantry more worthwhile to actually field them. kind of a cheap "perk" if you take them over some other more elite/expensively equipped units. the way they are with that example profile looks like a grot with slightly better weapons and profile and 2pts more in cost for basic infantry with an INv save at 5 points per basic trooper seems too cheap in points. STR/T 2 isn't going to do much either. at STR 3 ranged 12" AP- Assault 1 also means they probably wont actually shoot anything maybe replace "rifle" on these infantry with close combat weapons and a pistol or increase range to 18" and make it assault 2, keeping it Str 3. just an idea.

Hi Orkimedes, thanks for posting! I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting, are they too cheap in their current form or just a bit useless? I could improve them and then indeed they'd come with a larger price tag, but I ideally see them as cheap, rubbish and somewhat resilient. Their options however can make them a very flexible and deadly unit, as well as a force multiplier, in the hands of a competent commander.

It should be noted that I'm after a certain uniqueness in the stat line; I'd rather they had a different feel to other core troops. I've added a Guardsman to your example as way of comparison, I think I've priced them right about 5pts but we shall see; come the 7th I hope it all becomes apparent

Personally, I think 5pts for that statline is fair, if not overcosted when compared to the guardsman.

However, if the gun is S3 R12 A1 (have I read that quote right?) then the unit should be cheaper or the gun improved.

I'd suggest either 4pts per model, or perhaps as Orkimedes said make it a pistol, and give them the option of a CCW for +1 points?

Edit: While I think a 6++ is a great way to differential your crappy basic troops from that of other sides, I don't know if it makes sense particularly. I'd be more inclined to give 6+ FNP unless these creatures have like a forcefield or daemonic influence or some such thing that would grant inv saves.

vovak! cool. so, are these shards of a god Shaggoth like?

Message removed (noticed delay message)

Hey guys, well since its been bumped I might as well come out of hiding (was hoping this would slip under the radar so I could apologise and release at the same time).

Been a mixture of a few real-life issues and underestimating just how long those "finishing touches" take! It's been time well spent though as I keep picking up on conflicts and tweaking a few ideas. Hopefully with you Sunday if not a touch sooner.

Well, I've been staring at the "finished" article for a while but my drawings certainly aren't going to get magically better the harder I stare. Best thing to do now is bite the bullet and throw it out to the wolves

Have fun and let me know what you think. In particular points costings: I think I've taken "throwing dice to represent contrived situations by my myself" about as far as I can.

 disty wrote:

 Orkimedes1000 wrote:

HRUD/Gretchin/Guardsman
WS: 3/2/3
BS: 3/3/3
S: 2/2/3
T: 2/2/3
W: 1/1/1
I: 3/2/3
A: 1/1/1
Ld: 8/5/7
Sv: 6++/-/5+
Pts: 5/3/5

Unit size: 10-30


"Assault": make it assault 2. then it'd be virtually the same as a shotgun. + read a story featuring the Hrud, it claimed (vague-ish) that the Hrud had basic rifles that fired many rounds. by being assault - or assault 1 it is worse than s shotgun (by 1 shot) it'd make your Hrud basic infantry more worthwhile to actually field them. kind of a cheap "perk" if you take them over some other more elite/expensively equipped units. the way they are with that example profile looks like a grot with slightly better weapons and profile and 2pts more in cost for basic infantry with an INv save at 5 points per basic trooper seems too cheap in points. STR/T 2 isn't going to do much either. at STR 3 ranged 12" AP- Assault 1 also means they probably wont actually shoot anything maybe replace "rifle" on these infantry with close combat weapons and a pistol or increase range to 18" and make it assault 2, keeping it Str 3. just an idea.

Hi Orkimedes, thanks for posting! I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting, are they too cheap in their current form or just a bit useless? I could improve them and then indeed they'd come with a larger price tag, but I ideally see them as cheap, rubbish and somewhat resilient. Their options however can make them a very flexible and deadly unit, as well as a force multiplier, in the hands of a competent commander.

It should be noted that I'm after a certain uniqueness in the stat line; I'd rather they had a different feel to other core troops. I've added a Guardsman to your example as way of comparison, I think I've priced them right about 5pts but we shall see; come the 7th I hope it all becomes apparent

i simply mean't (apologies for long winded explanation) they are a bit weak as line infantry. to make them more useful make their assault weapons assault 2. (then their weapons are virtually the same as a shotgun statwise)

i agree if they were improved the points cost might change. to counter the extra benefit over a similar unit without [said rules?]. i hope to read the finished result as i have alway's been a fan of alternate Xenos in wh40k


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 disty wrote:
Hi all,

So as the title suggests I'm intending to release my Fandex on the 7th of April; a project I've been working on (or more aptly “off”) for the past two years.

I can imagine some of you are already shouting at your monitors, “why post now if it’s still two weeks away?” “Why have you not told us anything about this Fandex? You know we despise the GW approach towards marketing!” I’m afraid all I can offer you is my sincerest apologies. The ‘dex is completely drafted but is in need of formatting, revising and if there’s time, some of my horrific hand drawn art (The whole thing looks less convincing without art).

My hope for this thread (prior to the 7th) is thus:

1) To give myself a deadline. If I've set a target then it’s far more likely it’ll get finished as I have an aversion to breaking them.
2) Drum up some interest! I couldn't think of anything worse than just releasing it to a wall of silence. Hopefully with people already involved someone will at least say “We waited for that? It’s utterly horrible. I need to find better ways to procrastinate!”
3) If I have any last minute questions hopefully there’ll be someone capable of answering them.

So, how should I involve you? Well, since you’re not aware of the name of the Fandex, nor the Chapter/Craftworld/Regiment /Cult/Order/Clan/Species/Detachment/Dynasty/Civilisation/ Caste/Fleet/Squats its contents cover, we can play a game!

Ask a question or take a guess at either name and I’ll answer with Yes/No/Maybe (If you want to ask other questions not connected to the name game I’ll obviously answer in full). Winners will get a mention in the ‘dex or possibly have their name morphed into a character/item for the future. High levels of commitment may also be rewarded.

I should point out the ‘dex has been written for 5e and will be released that way; I’ll tidy it up for 6th (including adding some units I've got in mind and story progression) after a few months.
Without further ado, let the guessing/abuse/silence commence!

Cheers,

Disty

Ok so i have read 50% and skimmed through another 15% but what i have seen thus far is pretty awesome [not much i have issue with at present time]. one thing blared out at me while reading it. Super Metroid. this army seems almost written as a metroid come 40k xenos race handbook. i am by no means opposed to such, i forsee this army being very colourful and you have done a mighty fine explanation of a minor or next to unknown race/faction within 40k lore. [even if this is just my perception of the moment]

 Orkimedes1000 wrote:


Ok so i have read 50% and skimmed through another 15% but what i have seen thus far is pretty awesome [not much i have issue with at present time]. one thing blared out at me while reading it. Super Metroid. this army seems almost written as a metroid come 40k xenos race handbook. i am by no means opposed to such, i forsee this army being very colourful and you have done a mighty fine explanation of a minor or next to unknown race/faction within 40k lore. [even if this is just my perception of the moment]

Glad you've enjoyed it so far! I'm afraid I'll have to plead ignorance to the Super Metroid vibe as I never owned a SNES (Sacrilege I know but Amiga 500 for life!). I'm aware it's a really well-loved and respected title though so I'll happily take such comparisons

Good work thus far. 136 pages is allot!

Wish I could see it. My internet security tells me its bugged and when I say open anyway it errors out. Will try to open it on my iPad later and see what its all about!

KOVAV wrote:Good work thus far. 136 pages is allot!

Plenty to get through, so get cracking

Thatguyhsagun wrote:Wish I could see it. My internet security tells me its bugged and when I say open anyway it errors out. Will try to open it on my iPad later and see what its all about!

Oh dear, that's not good. Did you manage to get it working?

just read all 135 pages (136 was blank lol) and lived every bit of it! Bit disappointed I let my men down though... But things happen and sacrifices have to be made. Unfortunately I was one of them

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
just read all 135 pages (136 was blank lol) and lived every bit of it! Bit disappointed I let my men down though... But things happen and sacrifices have to be made. Unfortunately I was one of them

That was some quick reading, good work! Hah, 136 is indeed blank, it's mostly a throw-back from when I was transporting drafts to and from work in my bag, acting as a dirt shield and somewhere to scribble additional notes

Life in the Imperial Guard: it's never easy but that's how we like it

 disty wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
just read all 135 pages (136 was blank lol) and lived every bit of it! Bit disappointed I let my men down though... But things happen and sacrifices have to be made. Unfortunately I was one of them

That was some quick reading, good work! Hah, 136 is indeed blank, it's mostly a throwover from when I was transforting drafts to and from work in my bag, acting as a dirt shield and somewhere to scribble additional notes

Life in the Imperial Guard: it's never easy but that's how we like it

It is indeed. And just imagine the Catacheans home-planet. I bet its even worse!

I am really, really enjoying what I have read so far. Most fandexes are very, very one dimensional. This has several things going on, with the tamed animals, the umbra, the Mojjom tree and even some actual machinery.

I particularly like the pheromone tracers.

I skimmed it. Was impressed enough that I'm going to go back over it in detail. We need more fandexes like this man, I'd happily play against it

Dast wrote:I am really, really enjoying what I have read so far. Most fandexes are very, very one dimensional. This has several things going on, with the tamed animals, the umbra, the Mojjom tree and even some actual machinery.

I particularly like the pheromone tracers.

I'm glad your enjoying it! I tried to build up something a bit varied but also rooted in working necessity; everything should have a purpose!

Dakkamite wrote:I skimmed it. Was impressed enough that I'm going to go back over it in detail. We need more fandexes like this man, I'd happily play against it

Excellent news

If you could both post some feedback when you've sieved through in detail I'd be very appreciative as I'm not getting a lot of other comments :(

Hello again,

I have given the whole thing a read through. I really, really like it. The Mojom tree is a fantastic idea, the creatures they use are all nice and different and are all well done.

You have found a niche that really makes them feel different from every other 40k faction.

I am not really able to offer much rules balance advice as I haven't played with them, but conceptually the rules are all nice and pretty.

Things I would change:
-Right at the begining the fight between whats his name and the old ones in order to escape. I woul prefer if this bit, instead of being written in "normal" mode was written in a highly legendary and epic way. This would give people the ability to choose to intereret it as just a legend, or as an actual event, depending on their choice.
Once he gets closer to the present and fighting antara and necrons I thought it got much, much better.

Also, where do you come up with the names? They are vaguely lovecraftian, but are pronouncable (I think, I haven't actually tried but reading them I think they are pronouncable.)

Anyway, It was a very good read. Hope this feedback helps,

Dast

Dast wrote:
Hello again,

I have given the whole thing a read through. I really, really like it. The Mojom tree is a fantastic idea, the creatures they use are all nice and different and are all well done.

You have found a niche that really makes them feel different from every other 40k faction.

Hey Dast, thanks for the reply! Glad you liked it!

Dast wrote:
I am not really able to offer much rules balance advice as I haven't played with them, but conceptually the rules are all nice and pretty.

I'm very much in the same boat, not had a whole lot of time for play testing. If you've got a spare few minutes though I'd appreciate it if you tried to build the most unbalanced army list you could, really try and break the 'dex. I've made several but there's bound to be unintentional combinations that I've missed.

Dast wrote:
Things I would change:
-Right at the begining the fight between whats his name and the old ones in order to escape. I woul prefer if this bit, instead of being written in "normal" mode was written in a highly legendary and epic way. This would give people the ability to choose to intereret it as just a legend, or as an actual event, depending on their choice.
Once he gets closer to the present and fighting antara and necrons I thought it got much, much better.

I think I see what you mean, I'm not intending to go over and re-do the fluff as a priority (although every time I glance at it I see something wrong!) but when I do I'll send you a PM for ideas and direction.

Dast wrote:
Also, where do you come up with the names? They are vaguely lovecraftian, but are pronouncable (I think, I haven't actually tried but reading them I think they are pronouncable.)

Any names in particular? The names of the Hrud are mostly just made up by myself scribbling down jumbled letters, prefixes and suffixes until I see something I like. The only directly lovecraftian reference is the Cthacean (amalgamation of Cthulu and Crustacean). There's loads of amalgamations and obscure pop culture references laced through it though, bonus points if people can spot them

Dast wrote:
Anyway, It was a very good read. Hope this feedback helps

All feedback helps, even one word replies will spur me on knowing that someone's going to read it!

Currently I'm slowly adjusting a few rules to bring them in line with 6e whilst creating three new units. I'm having a little difficulty in creating decent and unique warlord traits so any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

disty

Need help writing fluff? I can do fluff for you.

Hi Kain, thanks for the post.

That's a very kind offer. The fluff has already been fleshed out but feel free to submit revisions and alternatives. You could even create background stories about other notable Cerberons and their migratory rampages! Something I intend to do some distance in the future is to create backgrounds and a timeline of famous battles and events based upon table top outcomes.

 disty wrote:

I'm having a little difficulty in creating decent and unique warlord traits so any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

So I had a little think over the weekend and have drafted a list of 8 possible warlord traits for your scrutiny.

1) “Tomorrow’s Harvest” More than one Mojjom fruit can be consumed per turn per unit.
2) “From the smallest ant to the tallest tree” – Swarms and fauna are no longer vulnerable to blasts and templates.
3) “Blood brothers” – Allies chosen from Codex: Chaos Demons and Codex: Chaos Space Marines are considered battle brothers instead of Desperate allies.
4) “By example” – When an enemy character is slain by the warlord in a duel, all units within 12” gain fearless until the beginning of the next game turn.
5) “Vay Jaakell” – One unit gains infiltrate
6) “Vay Quomb” – The warlord and any unit he’s joined with have the poisoned (4+) special rule to their close combat attacks. Models already with poisoned attacks gain Poisoned (2+)
7) “Vay Velotck” – The warlord and any unit he’s joined with gain the Monster hunter special rule. The Warlord gains Eternal warrior.
8) “Vay Pjorous” – The warlord may choose to have enemy models arriving via outflank re-roll which table edge they arrive from. Add +1 when rolling to penetrate fortifications with an Av value.

Let me know what you think. If anyone has additional traits please share them (the fluffier the better!) and in due course we'll have a poll to decide which 6 should make the cut.

Cheers,

disty

Just give me a bit to look over what you have and I can put out some Blurbs and short stories for you.

 disty wrote:
Hi Kain, thanks for the post.

That's a very kind offer. The fluff has already been fleshed out but feel free to submit revisions and alternatives. You could even create background stories about other notable Cerberons and their migratory rampages! Something I intend to do some distance in the future is to create backgrounds and a timeline of famous battles and events based upon table top outcomes.

 disty wrote:

I'm having a little difficulty in creating decent and unique warlord traits so any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

So I had a little think over the weekend and have drafted a list of 8 possible warlord traits for your scrutiny.

1) “Tomorrow’s Harvest” More than one Mojjom fruit can be consumed per turn per unit.
2) “From the smallest ant to the tallest tree” – Swarms and fauna are no longer vulnerable to blasts and templates.
3) “Blood brothers” – Allies chosen from Codex: Chaos Demons and Codex: Chaos Space Marines are considered battle brothers instead of Desperate allies.
4) “By example” – When an enemy character is slain by the warlord in a duel, all units within 12” gain fearless until the beginning of the next game turn.
5) “Vay Jaakell” – One unit gains infiltrate
6) “Vay Quomb” – The warlord and any unit he’s joined with have the poisoned (4+) special rule to their close combat attacks. Models already with poisoned attacks gain Poisoned (2+)
7) “Vay Velotck” – The warlord and any unit he’s joined with gain the Monster hunter special rule. The Warlord gains Eternal warrior.
8) “Vay Pjorous” – The warlord may choose to have enemy models arriving via outflank re-roll which table edge they arrive from. Add +1 when rolling to penetrate fortifications with an Av value.

Let me know what you think. If anyone has additional traits please share them (the fluffier the better!) and in due course we'll have a poll to decide which 6 should make the cut.

Cheers,

disty

I haven't had the chance to read through it as much as I'd like, but here are my quick opinions on your suggestions:
1. I can't remember exactly what this does, but I like that it's unique.
2. I like how this changes the dynamic of your army. I think it may be a little too strong though for a warlord trait. Maybe making it a 12" bubble would do the trick?
3. Not a huge fan of this. Although it is very fluffy, it dramatically changes the structure of your army and can be totally worthless if you happened to not take them as allies.
4. This seems pretty good, maybe make it a bit stronger though? The rulebook has a warlord trait that grants victory points if you win a duel, which is stronger than this.
5. I'd bump it to D3 units to make it the same as the CSM trait (pretty sure it's them.) Plus infiltrate isn't as strong as it used to be.
6. Incredibly strong trait, this really needs to be toned down. My suggestion is to make it only the warlord. I like adding poison though, I think it suits the army very well.
7. Eternal Warrior may be a bit strong for a free warlord trait, but I do like Monster Hunter. Not sure exactly how to go forward with this. Maybe give the warlord Preferred Enemy (Monstrous Creatures)
8. I'm good with this one. A little situational, but strong when it applies.


I hope this helps, I'm a big fan of what you've done so far.

Kain wrote:Just give me a bit to look over what you have and I can put out some Blurbs and short stories for you.

I look forward to seeing what you come up with!

rabid1903 wrote: I haven't had the chance to read through it as much as I'd like, but here are my quick opinions on your suggestions:

Hi Rabid! I know what you mean, I've been meaning to put myself about a bit more and comment on some other proposed rule threads but just haven't found the time :(

rabid1903 wrote:1. I can't remember exactly what this does, but I like that it's unique.

I intend to be adding a few more fruits in so hopefully it'll be more viable. Let me know if you have any more feelings about this one.

rabid1903 wrote:2. I like how this changes the dynamic of your army. I think it may be a little too strong though for a warlord trait. Maybe making it a 12" bubble would do the trick?

My concern with the 12" bubble is there's only one unit that produces swarms (with a second coming for 6.0) but I doubt they'll rarely be close enough to the warlord for this to have an affect, although I agree board-wide could be rather OTT... How about cutting out the fauna and having this instead: "Swarms within 6” of a unit with the Hrud special rule are no longer vulnerable to blasts and templates." - That way they're on a tactical leash, what do you think?

rabid1903 wrote:3. Not a huge fan of this. Although it is very fluffy, it dramatically changes the structure of your army and can be totally worthless if you happened to not take them as allies.

I agree, although I do like the mechanism to change the style of army. I'm now considering adding it to His Voice's unit entry as a special rule with the condition that it's only in effect if he's the sole Infestation HQ choice. Opinions?

rabid1903 wrote:4. This seems pretty good, maybe make it a bit stronger though? The rulebook has a warlord trait that grants victory points if you win a duel, which is stronger than this.

I see what you mean, it does lack something... Perhaps the Warlord gains Rampage after a successful duel until next turn? What do you think?

rabid1903 wrote:5. I'd bump it to D3 units to make it the same as the CSM trait (pretty sure it's them.) Plus infiltrate isn't as strong as it used to be.

Ah, thanks for the info! I shall indeed bump it up, but I like to be different.... How about also giving the Warlord Preferred Enemy: Necrons. Highly situational and only really put in for fluffy purposes. A little too much? What do you think?

rabid1903 wrote:6. Incredibly strong trait, this really needs to be toned down. My suggestion is to make it only the warlord. I like adding poison though, I think it suits the army very well.

On reflection I agree, but I'd like to give the army something as well... How about giving the warlord the poisoned (4+) special rule to its close combat attacks. Unit(s) the warlord is joined to improve their poisoned “to wound” roll by +1, to a maximum of 2+. Units without the poisoned special rule are unaffected. - That way it only really effects the Evergrowth units, which is fluffy, and also they're largely defensive units so I think it'll balance. What do you think?

rabid1903 wrote:7. Eternal Warrior may be a bit strong for a free warlord trait, but I do like Monster Hunter. Not sure exactly how to go forward with this. Maybe give the warlord Preferred Enemy (Monstrous Creatures)

Agreed, it sort of got tacked on because I didn't feel the trait was sufficiently strong enough and I couldn't think of what else to put Both PE and MH together? If so that seems a bit clunky. If I had to choose one I prefer MH if only for the name! maybe have it as MH/Tank Hunter (picking one during deployment)? That way it'll always be useful if not a little lacking.

rabid1903 wrote:8. I'm good with this one. A little situational, but strong when it applies.

Excellent.

rabid1903 wrote:I hope this helps, I'm a big fan of what you've done so far.

Helped masses, thanks again. Let me know what you think about the alterations.

Cheers,

disty

I thought about it all a bit more, let me know what you think

disty wrote:

rabid1903 wrote:1. I can't remember exactly what this does, but I like that it's unique.

I intend to be adding a few more fruits in so hopefully it'll be more viable. Let me know if you have any more feelings about this one.

I really need to scour through your codex before I can say anything remotely helpful on this one. It is unique enough that it will definitely need play tested.

disty wrote:

rabid1903 wrote:2. I like how this changes the dynamic of your army. I think it may be a little too strong though for a warlord trait. Maybe making it a 12" bubble would do the trick?

My concern with the 12" bubble is there's only one unit that produces swarms (with a second coming for 6.0) but I doubt they'll rarely be close enough to the warlord for this to have an affect, although I agree board-wide could be rather OTT... How about cutting out the fauna and having this instead: "Swarms within 6” of a unit with the Hrud special rule are no longer vulnerable to blasts and templates." - That way they're on a tactical leash, what do you think?

Seems like a pretty good compromise. Keeps a coherent army and isn't game breaking in a massive game. Once again is going to need play tested, but I think it's a step in the right direction.

disty wrote:

rabid1903 wrote:3. Not a huge fan of this. Although it is very fluffy, it dramatically changes the structure of your army and can be totally worthless if you happened to not take them as allies.

I agree, although I do like the mechanism to change the style of army. I'm now considering adding it to His Voice's unit entry as a special rule with the condition that it's only in effect if he's the sole Infestation HQ choice. Opinions?

Great change. It seemed like it should belong in the army, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it.

disty wrote:

rabid1903 wrote:4. This seems pretty good, maybe make it a bit stronger though? The rulebook has a warlord trait that grants victory points if you win a duel, which is stronger than this.

I see what you mean, it does lack something... Perhaps the Warlord gains Rampage after a successful duel until next turn? What do you think?

Rampage I feel is underused, and this makes it great for killing the sergeant then butchering the rest of the squad on the next turn. I like this change a lot.

disty wrote:

rabid1903 wrote:5. I'd bump it to D3 units to make it the same as the CSM trait (pretty sure it's them.) Plus infiltrate isn't as strong as it used to be.

Ah, thanks for the info! I shall indeed bump it up, but I like to be different.... How about also giving the Warlord Preferred Enemy: Necrons. Highly situational and only really put in for fluffy purposes. A little too much? What do you think?

I thought of a (hopefully) brilliant way to go with this. Keep it as one unit and add deep strike. Make it so if the unit can already infiltrate or deep strike that it can assault the turn it comes in. This will greatly limit the units may be able to break this by only letting a few assault out of reserves, but still gives it a use even when you don't have any of those units.

disty wrote:

rabid1903 wrote:6. Incredibly strong trait, this really needs to be toned down. My suggestion is to make it only the warlord. I like adding poison though, I think it suits the army very well.

On reflection I agree, but I'd like to give the army something as well... How about giving the warlord the poisoned (4+) special rule to its close combat attacks. Unit(s) the warlord is joined to improve their poisoned “to wound” roll by +1, to a maximum of 2+. Units without the poisoned special rule are unaffected. - That way it only really effects the Evergrowth units, which is fluffy, and also they're largely defensive units so I think it'll balance. What do you think?

That also sounds like a step in the right direction. Another thing you can do is instead change it from adding to the poison roll to replacing it with fleshbane. What I worry about isn't your ability to take out high toughness units, it's the reroll if your strength is equal or higher than your opponent's toughness. Adding +1 to the poison would make it so you'd wound most units 88% of the time assuming it is on a S 4 model. Meanwhile, fleshbane plateaus at 83% so you don't roflstomp low toughness units.

disty wrote:

rabid1903 wrote:7. Eternal Warrior may be a bit strong for a free warlord trait, but I do like Monster Hunter. Not sure exactly how to go forward with this. Maybe give the warlord Preferred Enemy (Monstrous Creatures)

Agreed, it sort of got tacked on because I didn't feel the trait was sufficiently strong enough and I couldn't think of what else to put Both PE and MH together? If so that seems a bit clunky. If I had to choose one I prefer MH if only for the name! maybe have it as MH/Tank Hunter (picking one during deployment)? That way it'll always be useful if not a little lacking.

Good change, and I agree that it was a bit clunky. Honestly maybe even just giving both MH and TH would do the trick. They aren't that strong of abilities to warrant being the sole benefit.

disty wrote:

Helped masses, thanks again. Let me know what you think about the alterations.

Cheers,

disty

Always glad to be of help, I know it feels like to put tons of time into things and fight for feedback on the forums.

Hey Rabid, thanks for even more input!
I also had a think (and a microscopic epiphany) so let's see where we're at...

In an attempt not to make this post massive I'll omit traits 1-4 and 8 which either seem fine in principle or have been removed.

5. Vay Jaakell

rabid1903 wrote:
I thought of a (hopefully) brilliant way to go with this. Keep it as one unit and add deep strike. Make it so if the unit can already infiltrate or deep strike that it can assault the turn it comes in. This will greatly limit the units may be able to break this by only letting a few assault out of reserves, but still gives it a use even when you don't have any of those units.

Interesting and justifiable in the fluff. I don't think there's a unit that deepstrikes in the 'dex but there's a certain amount of future proofing I'm all for.

6. Vay Quomb.

rabid1903 wrote:
That also sounds like a step in the right direction. Another thing you can do is instead change it from adding to the poison roll to replacing it with fleshbane. What I worry about isn't your ability to take out high toughness units, it's the reroll if your strength is equal or higher than your opponent's toughness. Adding +1 to the poison would make it so you'd wound most units 88% of the time assuming it is on a S 4 model. Meanwhile, fleshbane plateaus at 83% so you don't roflstomp low toughness units.

I can understand your concern with rerolls but I think in this instance Fleshbane would be OTT, my reasons being thusly: Only two units in the 'dex can utilise this trait, namely cultivators and Venocultralists. The cultivators base is S2 with S3 on the charge, although I expect with their special rules they'd be more likely to accept a charge than initiate it. Venocultralists are elites which only become really effective end game, and hit STR4 in turn 3. If your opponent hasn't dealt with them by then it's clearly a tactical choice, plus this would mean either the Warlord babysits them for a few turns or they slog it to his position.

7. Vay Velotck

rabid1903 wrote:
Good change, and I agree that it was a bit clunky. Honestly maybe even just giving both MH and TH would do the trick. They aren't that strong of abilities to warrant being the sole benefit.

Ok I'll include them both!

On to my micropithany: We're now down to seven, one needs to go. I looked at the "Tomorrow's harvest" trait and felt that, although it can lead to some crazy combos, it's highly situational and unlikely to be used. Then I looked at "From the smallest ant to the tallest tree"... Wait... Fruit... From the Mojjom tree? Coincidence? Too good to refuse!

Obviously it'll need play testing and balance but so far here's the revised table.

1) “From the smallest ant to the tallest tree” – Swarms within 6” of a unit with the Hrud special rule are no longer vulnerable to blasts and templates. The warlord may consume more than one Mojjom fruit per turn.
2) “By example” – When an enemy character is slain by the warlord in a duel, all units within 12” gain fearless and the warlord gains rampage. Effects last until the beginning of the next game turn.
3) “Vay Jaakell” – One unit may be given deepstrike before deployment. Units already with deepstrike may assault the turn they arrive from reserves.
4) “Vay Quomb” – The warlord gains the poisoned (4+) special rule to its close combat attacks. Unit(s) the warlord is joined to improve their poisoned “to wound” roll by +1, to a maximum of 2+. Units without the poisoned special rule are unaffected.
5) “Vay Velotck” – The warlord gains Monster hunter and Tank hunter.
6) “Vay Pjorous” – The warlord may choose to have enemy models arriving via outflank re-roll which table edge they arrive from. Add +1 when rolling to penetrate fortifications with an Av value.

rabid1903 wrote:Always glad to be of help, I know it feels like to put tons of time into things and fight for feedback on the forums.

Them feels, I know them. I noticed your 40k in 40 pages thread and have been meaning to get involved, hopefully I'll read through it in the coming few weeks and provide some feedback.! I already tip my hat to you, augmenting a current ruleset is one thing, completely revising it is another! Top work.

Cheers,

disty

Disty,

I apologize again for not being able to really dive into this, hopefully I can give it an in-depth read through tonight to try to help with more than just Warlord Traits. I feel that I've got a pretty decent sense of balance, so hopefully I can help out with that.

I'm very happy with the traits you have now, I think they're both balanced with each other and with other warlord traits. You essentially have broken it down to a spectrum of "buff the army" to "buff the character." The traits cover that spectrum very well, which I think is what GW should have strived for.

Last thing with Warlord Traits:
Generally the special characters are assigned a warlord trait. Have you thought about which ones will get what?


Anyways, onto some more things that I'll hopefully get to read into and answer on my own.

What are the primary builds you want the players to be able to do? Obviously you want everything to be balanced, but I feel that most codices have 2-3 builds and the armies that players choose are hybrids of those.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the ones that I could pick out were the following:
1 - Swarm list with lots of actual swarms and basically models to herd them.
2 - Elite army that starts weak but will ramp up and gain momentum as the battle continues. This is my favorite and if I play test this'll definitely be the route I'll go. The only other army I feel can have this play style is Dark Eldar with their pain tokens.
3 - A slow and terrifying wall of monsters protecting the rest of the army until you get close enough to strike. If the monsters make it they're going to put the hurt on the enemy, but their main purpose is to protect the rest of your army. This is the one I'm the least sure of.


If these are the three core builds you plan to use, I feel that they compliment each other well and will lend themselves to good hybrid choices for the players.

Wall of text, followed by the bottom line haha. Feel free to skip the wall of text, it's there to provide some food for thought.



All that wall of text brings me to a final question:
-Do you want the army choices to be more like pieces to a puzzle where each has their role to fill, or like a one man army where everything can handle anything to some extent.

I'm sure you've already thought about that and have the answer. I would just like to know it and your justification before I begin revising and providing suggestions

 rabid1903 wrote:
Disty,

I apologize again for not being able to really dive into this, hopefully I can give it an in-depth read through tonight to try to help with more than just Warlord Traits. I feel that I've got a pretty decent sense of balance, so hopefully I can help out with that.

Hi Rabid. No need to apologize, I appreciate the effort you're putting into this. I'm not too far off revising it for 6e now, barring writing additional fluff (which *shock*horror* progresses the story!) So you might feel you don't want to dive in quite yet if you haven't got the time. You're input is appreciated since I agree you seem to be a good judge of balance.

 rabid1903 wrote:
I'm very happy with the traits you have now, I think they're both balanced with each other and with other warlord traits. You essentially have broken it down to a spectrum of "buff the army" to "buff the character." The traits cover that spectrum very well, which I think is what GW should have strived for.

Last thing with Warlord Traits:
Generally the special characters are assigned a warlord trait. Have you thought about which ones will get what?


Anyways, onto some more things that I'll hopefully get to read into and answer on my own.

Good stuff, glad you think they work. As for the SC's... Well there aren't any yet! I'm not a very SC-centric person, I have plans to add a few in but nothing too soon. If there are to be any SC's I'd like the majority to evolve out of real table top occurrences and feats that defy the dice gods.

 rabid1903 wrote:
What are the primary builds you want the players to be able to do? Obviously you want everything to be balanced, but I feel that most codices have 2-3 builds and the armies that players choose are hybrids of those.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the ones that I could pick out were the following:
1 - Swarm list with lots of actual swarms and basically models to herd them.
2 - Elite army that starts weak but will ramp up and gain momentum as the battle continues. This is my favorite and if I play test this'll definitely be the route I'll go. The only other army I feel can have this play style is Dark Eldar with their pain tokens.
3 - A slow and terrifying wall of monsters protecting the rest of the army until you get close enough to strike. If the monsters make it they're going to put the hurt on the enemy, but their main purpose is to protect the rest of your army. This is the one I'm the least sure of.


If these are the three core builds you plan to use, I feel that they compliment each other well and will lend themselves to good hybrid choices for the players.

Whilst I agree that most codex's have 2-3 core builds I've not put much thought into what they would be! My main goal was more internal balance and synergy. I really want the reader to want to cram every unit into their list and be left with tough decisions on what to drop, no no-brainers, every entry is viable. Whether I've achieved this or not is another matter!

That said I wanted themed lists to be viable. The three you mentioned certainly should be, although perhaps not a 'purest' version (1. Swarms in the form of mass infantry is certainly viable; 2. Elite armies are definitely viable although the ramping is contained to a few units: Venocultralists, tooled up Cerberon, Caller of the depths - depending on definition; 3. Monster-mash is certainly one way to go although only three of the monstrous creatures can start on the board.) I was also focusing on fluff themed list so, although maybe not the most competitive, a player could create a mono Evergrowth/Shadow/Mechannibal list. I agree that hybrid lists are probably where the money is at in terms of power.

 rabid1903 wrote:
Balance things to make sure you consider:
Generally there should be at least two ways to take out aircraft, AV 14, and 2+ armor. You can have units dedicated to that or units that are just decent at it.
-For AA, I've always felt that these are the three a codex should choose 2 from:
---Dedicated air superiority flyer. It can hit ground targets obviously, but that's not what it's there for. Currently there aren't any great examples of this.
---Dedicated AAA ground unit. Think quad guns and the like. They are amazing at taking out air units and are very slow. This is where interceptor is critical.
---Highly mobile ground unit with AA capabilities. This is your jack-of-all-trades unit. Tau do this best with Skyfire on Crisis Suits. This is the most expensive option and is meant to have some kind of capability vs anything.

You can extrapolate this out to all of the above mentioned targets, and can even double up capabilities assuming they pay for it (a good combination is anti-AV 14 and 2+ armor.) These will really help make it so certain things aren't an auto-include because it's the only thing that can handle certain targets.

Everything else in the army can be used for the common things like transports and infantry. Additionally they can be used to create themes for your army and for scoring purposes.


The point I'm trying to make is an ideal codex should have roughly 3 options for everything. These should definitely overlap or else you end up like Tyranids with more options than you know what to do with (and most suck.) But they can't overlap too much or you end up like oldcrons where every army looks the same because you have no choices.

Your "wall of text" was nowhere near as bad as I was expecting, concise and useful!

I agree with you and have tried to provide a range of ways to deal with various adversaries, utilising various and varied methods, allowing the player to play the way he wants to. AA cover is something I'm currently working on, currently the Deathknell is what you would describe as an air superiority flyer, the Hrud specific fortification has two methods of dealing with flyers (both conventional gun or a platform that boosts a garrisoned His Shadows' powers, granting one of them Skyfire. I'm toying with other ideas as it's a little lacking, that said most armies struggle with a certain type of foe and I think flyers might be this. That said I certainly don't want any player to look across the table and think "flyers, auto loss." that's just poor design.

 rabid1903 wrote:
All that wall of text brings me to a final question:
-Do you want the army choices to be more like pieces to a puzzle where each has their role to fill, or like a one man army where everything can handle anything to some extent.

I'm sure you've already thought about that and have the answer. I would just like to know it and your justification before I begin revising and providing suggestions

Certainly the former, there are units that can perform a variety of roles but that's never been a goal, I dislike no-brainers. I want a 'dex that requires a good element of planning but also requires that player to think on their feet, reacting to developments as they arise, often asked to make difficult decisions. Ultimately the Infestation player should have an average deck but with enough aces up his sleeve that the opponent doesn't see coming.

looks good man

 Warp Angels wrote:
looks good man

Hi Warp Angels, thanks for reading

Sooooo...... 6.0 is out!

Inside not only can you find some updated and re-tweaked rules but three new units! Hurrah!

It's taken a bit longer than expected for the following reasons:

1) I won't lie, there's certainly a correlation between the amount of interest shown and how quickly my turnaround will be. The post has now achieved over 2300 views, which is awesome, but 85 replies, which is not, considering half of those are me
2) The weather's been nice! And if anyone know's the British, we're obsessed with the climate. I seem to have been in much demand as a dedicated BBQ chef at various get-togethers.
3) I'm not actually a big fan of 6e. The changes to the core set have been fine (at least non rage inducing) but I really dislike the flyers and Fortification implementations. The flyers seem so clunky and out of place, literally like they've been tacked on, whilst the ruleset for fortifications seems "hobbiest" for a better word. Not that I dislike the hobbiest side; I'm a massive 2e fan and I enjoy the detail and nuances that ruleset provides, but why, when the editions have been constantly streamlining, do you introduce such a throwback? Anyway, I think I've had a few vinos and I'm probably ranting now...
4) Shortly after Dast's post I began mulling over my no-SC decision... Then I had some ideas... Now I have seven unique SCs in the works. Damn you Dast! Is seven too many? I might put them up as a poll.

Anyway, as always, thanks for reading! I hope you enjoy.

Cheers,

disty

Oh, humanity...
Walls of unformated text. If you plan to improve it, please split text into two columns at least.

Disty you are the greatest sir. Although honestly I can't be bothered to read it I already know it is sweet and smooth just by looking at the contents and using the scroll bar to full effect. The names are really funny and fitting and perfect...I beckon, several hats off.

Mezmerro wrote:Oh, humanity...
Walls of unformated text. If you plan to improve it, please split text into two columns at least.

Haha! Oh, humanity? Someone's a touch theatrical. Formatting was at the bottom of my to-do list, mostly because I don't think the rewards outweigh the time taken and the subsequent annoyance caused when a large amount of re-working is required. Plus I lack sufficient pictures and extraneous descriptive texts to "plug the gaps". Never-the-less, since it's the only suggestion I've received, I'll bump it straight to the top.

IcyFireKnight wrote:Disty you are the greatest sir. Although honestly I can't be bothered to read it I already know it is sweet and smooth just by looking at the contents and using the scroll bar to full effect. The names are really funny and fitting and perfect...I beckon, several hats off.

I appreciate the comments and your refreshing honesty, I doth thy cap.

 disty wrote:
Never-the-less, since it's the only suggestion I've received, I'll bump it straight to the top.

Just because English is not my mother tongue, it' rather uncomfortable for me to read Engliish text in a single wide column.
You'd be surprised how many people with rather bad English read English sourcebooks of the settings they fond of.

 Mezmerro wrote:
Just because English is not my mother tongue, it' rather uncomfortable for me to read Engliish text in a single wide column.
You'd be surprised how many people with rather bad English read English sourcebooks of the settings they fond of.

Something I never really appreciated; thanks for bringing it to my attention. Currently hunting down pics to fill the gaping holes, hopefully I can get a formatted version out by the end of the week. I can't guarantee it'll be easier to read though; I'm pretty poor at formatting.

This is also under the premise that the text is worth reading, after scouring a couple of entries I'm not so certain! Some of those sentences were typed rather late at night....

Man I feel like that one guy in high school that promises to call but never does

Disty, I haven't forgotten about this thread. I have just been super busy and will hopefully be able to give it a really good scouring soon

Dosty pls

Can someone summarise the Hrrrrrrrrrud plot for me?

6.1 is out, available in the first post. Let me know if it reads/looks any better!

rabid1903 wrote:Man I feel like that one guy in high school that promises to call but never does

Disty, I haven't forgotten about this thread. I have just been super busy and will hopefully be able to give it a really good scouring soon

Your continued interest is more than enough! I've been meaning to reciprocate the favour but I've also been struggling for time. Got an ACL rebuild in September which will probably result in a few weeks off work; plenty of time to get caught up on painting and writing!

IcyFireKnight wrote:Dosty pls

Can someone summarise the Hrrrrrrrrrud plot for me?

Do you mean official canon or mine?

If you want a synopsis of mine...

War in heaven (Oldcrons v Old Ones).
Old ones design and breed a race of exceptional guerilla fighters.
Not as exceptional as expected.
Try to exterminate their "mistake".
Xluu (Hrud leader) leads a rebellion.
All killed except Xluu.
Hides on (and in) a rock for a long long time.
Eldar land on said rock.
TWOCs (takes) their ship.
Lands on planet. The locals aren't friendly.
Enslaves one (Snarlpit), before nearly being eaten by another (Anatra), then teaming with a third (Herasir), and finally beating the second (Anatra).
Creates lots of tribes and then try to forge an empire.
Wake up Necrons. Necrons be angry.
Chase Xluu and his people across the galaxy.
Destroy all of them except a few that land on a planet and Xluu.
Xluu suicides into command ship, although it's clear he's not going to make it.
Sends out a psychic scream into the warp.
Malal, who previously had his "twin brother" Qah chopped up by the four main chaos gods united, hears this.
Offers his power in exchange for servitude, Xluu, without option, agrees.
Malal extends his reach into the materium, destroys the Necron fleet, forces Xluu to battle a C'tan.
Malal munches upon said C'tan.
Xluu dies on the command ship as it drifts into a sun.
On the planet the remaining of the species, including the four best "generals", dominate the remaining Necrons, mostly due to an extremely favourable environment.
Planet is named Hrud and the species adopts this name.
They continue to migrate and raid, although they lost the use of the webway (mostly) as their psychically attuned navigators are now controlled by Malal.
The pieces of Qah are currently collating around planet Hrud; this will eventually cause the god to be reborn.

... I think that's everything....

Poifect k thanks

Hi Disty, I have actually made my own lore and Codices for the Hrud. Would you like to purview them? I would love to work with you on refining the Codices, and we took similar directions, both our Hrud have Strength and Toughness 2. Just message me, here or on Discord if you want, cleverandwitty_95959.

Calixtus wrote:
Hi Disty, I have actually made my own lore and Codices for the Hrud. Would you like to purview them? I would love to work with you on refining the Codices, and we took similar directions, both our Hrud have Strength and Toughness 2. Just message me, here or on Discord if you want, cleverandwitty_95959.

Note that you're responding to a 12 year old post.