I just got off the phone with GW. At first I thought it was a bad, and late, april fools joke. But its really happening.

They didn't make enough Tau. They shipped it to their Retail Stores. They took orders and sold it through mailorder.

When they ship orders to FLGS, they start with the furthest away, who need 3-4 days. And they ran out.

Most stores aren't getting anything but the Codex. My stores that has carried GW for 25 years are some of those.

Might be a week, might be 2 or 3. No one has an answer.

WHAT YOU CAN DO:

1) Don't harass your local store, don't vent and scream. Not the store's fault, and we don't need to relive the nightmare.
(If the store owner is venting, feel free to join in !)

2) Buy your codex, plan your army. Try not to sneak down to the local GW to grab some models.

3) If you really can't wait, then please don't be an utter fool and show up with the models to play with at your FLGS, and throw salt in the wound.

4) Give your FLGS an order for the new product you want and be patient.

5) Forgive your local store owner if he seems a touch...angry....all weekend.

This is very sad news, Mike.

I hope it all works out for you, man!

I have to wonder how much of this was bad planning and how much was an intentional attempt to siphon business away from FLGS's into GW stores.

I know, I know, incompetence is more common than malice, but GW's pattern of behavior towards independent retailers has been horrible over the last <insert period of time here>.

 Magc8Ball wrote:
I have to wonder how much of this was bad planning and how much was an intentional attempt to siphon business away from FLGS's into GW stores.

I know, I know, incompetence is more common than malice, but GW's pattern of behavior towards independent retailers has been horrible over the last <insert period of time here>.

People ordering direct from GW aren't getting there orders through either.

 Magc8Ball wrote:
I have to wonder how much of this was bad planning and how much was an intentional attempt to siphon business away from FLGS's into GW stores.

I know, I know, incompetence is more common than malice, but GW's pattern of behavior towards independent retailers has been horrible over the last <insert period of time here>.

If they would have had someone guarantee if they made 100 widgets they would have sold 100 widgets, they would have made 100 widgets. They simply didn't make enough.

People should pay where they play and just place their order with their FLGS and wait it out. It happens. GW is not the only vendor to have stocking issues.

This certainly blows. And on the heels of recent GW news doesn't do anything to improve GW's image.

Personally, I can't help but think that GW couldn't have seen this coming and couldn't have done something to head this off. At the -very- least GW could hold off on thier own sales until thier FLGS folks have stock to support the kickout.

As far as I can tell, GW isn't doing this and doesn't seem overly concerned about lost sales to an FLGS when the local GW store front will stand to gain the sale.

 Magc8Ball wrote:
I have to wonder how much of this was bad planning and how much was an intentional attempt to siphon business away from FLGS's into GW stores.

My first thought as well.

GW cashes in the gotta get it now mentality with the release, and then unloads what is left in the factory to the FLGS a month later....

UK FLGS aren't getting (all) the stuff either, and my local GW apparently hasn't got all they asked for either when asked (if you want a riptide, don't bother coming in, we're not going to have enough)

It really does look like they massivly underestimated how many units they needed (or they had a manufacturing or transport faliure)

or with all the other releases every month they've hit the 'oops not enough time to make things' wall. I suspect we may now see a slowdown from the big release/new book every month model

 mikhaila wrote:

WHAT YOU CAN DO:

1) Don't harass your local store, don't vent and scream. Not the store's fault, and we don't need to relive the nightmare.
(If the store owner is venting, feel free to join in !)

2) Buy your codex, plan your army. Try not to sneak down to the local GW to grab some models.

3) If you really can't wait, then please don't be an utter fool and show up with the models to play with at your FLGS, and throw salt in the wound.

4) Give your FLGS an order for the new product you want and be patient.

5) Forgive your local store owner if he seems a touch...angry....all weekend.

Follow these steps, people.

Pick up the books. Give them a good, solid readthrough. Plan out what you want to do. Take your time with it.

Don't decide you just have to go get a Riptide or something right then and there. Support your local shop.

Getting the codex alone will make the happy, as for the models I can wait just fine.

Course GW dicking over everyone either on purpose or not isn't helping.

Did they really think few would buy tau? Have they been online at all?

Wow. Just ...wow.

I'm a little astonished at this turn of events.

I'm real sorry to hear about this Mike. You've supported GW for decades and have an enormous fanbase for your stores. I can only imagine the headache this is causing.

 mikhaila wrote:
I just got off the phone with GW. At first I thought it was a bad, and late, april fools joke. But its really happening.

They didn't make enough Tau. They shipped it to their Retail Stores. They took orders and sold it through mailorder.

When they ship orders to FLGS, they start with the furthest away, who need 3-4 days. And they ran out.

Most stores aren't getting anything but the Codex. My stores that has carried GW for 25 years are some of those.

Funny how coincidence and random work, it is always the FLGS that get screwed...

xxvaderxx wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:
I just got off the phone with GW. At first I thought it was a bad, and late, april fools joke. But its really happening.

They didn't make enough Tau. They shipped it to their Retail Stores. They took orders and sold it through mailorder.

When they ship orders to FLGS, they start with the furthest away, who need 3-4 days. And they ran out.

Most stores aren't getting anything but the Codex. My stores that has carried GW for 25 years are some of those.

Funny how coincidence and random work, it is always the FLGS that get screwed...

Yeah...

Except if you read the preorder page, right now, on Games Workshop's own site for European customers--they cannot fulfill stock directly from them.

The local GW for me as well is not going to have all the stock that they were supposed to be allocated.

Support your local store.

Do not buy from a GW store.

Wait a little while, make the purchase, help the guy to stay open and provide you with a place to play...

GW is doing away with gaming instore, support your local friendly games store, it's enlightened self interest, to keep other ranges easily accessible and maintain somewhere to play.

I think this is a result of GW's isolation from the gamer base..the vet gamers that is, and this is a example of a large number of established gamers leaping at a new and long awaited update..and shock its not the poster boy army of 40k the SM, so sure it caught GW with its pants down.

Will they learn from this...nah, but I chalk it up to accidental, incompetent, malicious, unintentional goof up.

no tinfoil hats required.

Another example of why communicating with your customers is a good idea. Market research is not a new concept GW.

Wow, I was just going to go to my local store to pre-order. :(

 Magc8Ball wrote:
I have to wonder how much of this was bad planning and how much was an intentional attempt to siphon business away from FLGS's into GW stores.

This was my first thought. GW always take care of their own first.

Any vets wanna share the story with the yung'uns about all the Falcons that ended up on the ocean floor? Remember that?

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

 Flashman wrote:
Another example of why communicating with your customers is a good idea. Market research is not a new concept GW.

Isn't market research done on the internet? Ya know that thing that GW thinks doesn't exist besides games-workshop.com, forgeworld.co.uk, and blacklibrary.com


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Wow, I was just going to go to my local store to pre-order. :(

Still do that, unless it's a local GW, then don't do that... Drive out of your way to support the little guy... or take a bus, busing is safe right?

You guys act like GW is the only company to not have enough of a product at launch. This happens. And it's the first time I can remember it happening with a launch product since I've been collecting for the last 15+ years (granted only been paying attention for the last 10 or so). Chill out, support your local store. At least the book is available in proper numbers (which really makes me think that the production run numbers weren't properly set-up for this many large releases in a row). Codexes are easy to ensure proper numbers, new kits not so much.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Flashman wrote:
Another example of why communicating with your customers is a good idea. Market research is not a new concept GW.

Isn't market research done on the internet? Ya know that thing that GW thinks doesn't exist besides games-workshop.com, forgeworld.co.uk, and blacklibrary.com


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Wow, I was just going to go to my local store to pre-order. :(

Still do that, unless it's a local GW, then don't do that... Drive out of your way to support the little guy... or take a bus, busing is safe right?

Ok OT, Bussing Sucks, it taks two hours to get from my school to home, when it is a 15 minute drive.
but i still will. but im sad about not getting it in time :(

Keep calm, game on.

But i wanted to use my riptide in a tourney :(
Oh well i will have plenty of other toys, like AP1 sniper rifles

Mik, while I respect you and agree with what you're saying, did we really need a third N&R thread about it?

 Hulksmash wrote:
You guys act like GW is the only company to not have enough of a product at launch. This happens. And it's the first time I can remember it happening with a launch product since I've been collecting for the last 15+ years (granted only been paying attention for the last 10 or so). Chill out, support your local store. At least the book is available in proper numbers (which really makes me think that the production run numbers weren't properly set-up for this many large releases in a row). Codexes are easy to ensure proper numbers, new kits not so much.

Your post has the core of my skeptisim about this "failure to launch". GW has been doing this for -years- without a hickup. New race, new codex, new editions...all have launched without major supply issues.

Now comes a major relaunch and somehow we are to believe that they so blatently failed at production or knowing how much to produce that not only can they not ship to FLGs, they can't fill thier own preorders?

And thier response isn't to push back the release it is to "be patient. we don't know how long you need to be patient, just be patient." All the while their corporate brick and mortar shops have the new releases in stock and will be selling?

Sorry. It's tooooo neat and tidy for them in my opinion. If this truely is a production issue, then push the release date back and hold sales from the corporate shops. They won't because they know they can steal sales from the FLGS where they have corporate shops in the area.

US stores too huh. So Europe and the us for now not getting products for there customers. GW say they cant fulfil their stores either but I doubt it very much, from the 3 local GW`s each manager I know very well and they said GW`s will have what they need.
It is GW`s attempt to get folks in their shops to pay full retail. Nothing more, nothing less

This really does suck :/

At least you get the codex at your store though, wayland games arent getting anything until the 15th, :/ I still kept my order with them the same, bar the codex, which I will have to get from GW on the day (no stores in my area other than GW or online, and I play at GW and a local club anyway)

I feel really bad for all the independent retailers getting screwed by this, im sure half of it IS a ploy by GW to deliberately screw them over and make people buy from their own site at full retail value, with the "lack of products" on their site either being just because they deliberately didnt make enough or because they need an excuse for screwing the independents over.

Really sucks :( glad I don't play tau!

I know shortages happen.. but with all the other feldercarb lately my tinfoil hat is telling me that this was all planned for a quick cash grab, max profit at full retail and let those little people at the indie stores fend for themselves a while...

I think people are a bit malicious, My bet is that they thought tau just wouldnt sell.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I think people are a bit malicious, My bet is that they thought tau just wouldnt sell.

But... They have proof that if they update an army, people will buy it... Dark Eldar, Necrons, Grey Knights... All old codices that were updated within the past 2.5 years that hadn't been updated in years that sold well... Unless I'm misremembering those sales numbers .

I mean tau players are die hard people, why wouldn't they celebrate the fact their army was being updated?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I think people are a bit malicious, My bet is that they thought tau just wouldnt sell.

Or their rapid fire release schedule they've been going for is taxing their production capacity.

Either way their stores getting the product first, and the independents not getting anything is very not cool.

It could be as simple as they are having production issues.

It could be less simple and directly related to recent months were stores have been having difficulty stocking the most popular plastic kits (fliers, Aegis Defense Lines, etc) but GW stores apparently haven't been, according to a number of anecdotes.

I'm not sure what I believe at this point, so I'll watch. However, Tin Foil is only good for keeping a casserole hot. If you want to protect yourselves from Government Brain Waves, shower often. Also, beer.

I understand demand exceeding initial production. It happens... a lot! In fact I think it's quite cool that GW sold out of their initial production. It makes me feel as though the state of the hobby and GW isn't as bleak and desolate as everyone (Dakka) makes it out to be.

 mikhaila wrote:

When they ship orders to FLGS, they start with the furthest away, who need 3-4 days. And they ran out.

But this ^

This is the most poorly conceived 'method' of distribution I've ever heard of.

 juraigamer wrote:
Getting the codex alone will make the happy, as for the models I can wait just fine.

Course GW dicking over everyone either on purpose or not isn't helping.

Did they really think few would buy tau? Have they been online at all?

They're not space marines, so some GW bigwig probably had a conversation that went something like this:


"So, these new tau models.. how big do we want the production run.. 100k units or 50k?"

"Are those the new space marines?"

"Er, no.. they're the anime fish aliens"

"Wha.. oh yeah, those guys. Well, they're not space marines are they?"

"No...."

"10k units, if its not space marines its gonna be a slow month, don't want that unsellable crap stuck in the warehouse for months like dreadfleet"

"But sir, the internet..."

"The internet can stfu, I've had it with the idiots on there. 10k units, and less backchatting in future please".

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
I think this is a result of GW's isolation from the gamer base..the vet gamers that is, and this is a example of a large number of established gamers leaping at a new and long awaited update..and shock its not the poster boy army of 40k the SM, so sure it caught GW with its pants down.

Will they learn from this...nah, but I chalk it up to accidental, incompetent, malicious, unintentional goof up.

no tinfoil hats required.

I agree. They think xenos don't sell. They put off tau for years thinking it wouldn't sell. This response is bigger than they expected.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 oni wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:

When they ship orders to FLGS, they start with the furthest away, who need 3-4 days. And they ran out.

But this ^

This is the most poorly conceived 'method' of distribution I've ever heard of.

This is normal for a strict release date. You want everything to arrive at roughly the same time, so you stagger your shipments from the longest to the shortest. Pre-ordered videogames and books are often shipped this way.

Well, I just visited my flgs to ask about the tau.

The manager was aware of the shortage but showed me where it says orders placed before Tuesday 4pm were not affected.

Just to make sure he called his supplier but got the voicemail.

I'll be getting a call later today if my order isnt coming... Right now just crossing my fingers lol

If only one could figure out a way to estimate customer demand ahead of time. Perhaps announce future releases with, say, a month of lead time. Maybe even allow people to order things a month early, giving you cash in hand and three extra weeks to resolve any production issues.

But of course, that would be un-possible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCrDeMLgVZQ

So, Games workshop has sent out stock to some stores, ran out, and now everyone's saying Games Workshop should magically call it all back and ensure none of it is sold (Making this muck up cost even more than it already will) so its a fair release? Some Indie stores got stock. Thats been said. Stop deliberately trying to find a way to make GW look even more like the corporate evil you already try so hard to do (Not saying they aren't shoddy sometimes, but this is just ridiculous)

 mikhaila wrote:


3) If you really can't wait, then please don't be an utter fool and show up with the models to play with at your FLGS, and throw salt in the wound.

I agree with everything about your post except this. If some stores are running tournaments within the next few weeks, and die-hard Tau players really want to use their new toys in said tournaments, they shouldn't be considered 'utter fools'. You'd still be getting business from the entry fees, and perhaps the store owner could be smart enough to provide an 'extra' discount to anyone who sees that new Riptide during the tournament and really wants one if they just wait until that store gets it in stock.

 Oaka wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:


3) If you really can't wait, then please don't be an utter fool and show up with the models to play with at your FLGS, and throw salt in the wound.

I agree with everything about your post except this. If some stores are running tournaments within the next few weeks, and die-hard Tau players really want to use their new toys in said tournaments, they shouldn't be considered 'utter fools'. You'd still be getting business from the entry fees, and perhaps the store owner could be smart enough to provide an 'extra' discount to anyone who sees that new Riptide during the tournament and really wants one if they just wait until that store gets it in stock.

While I sympathize with your position, you gotta look at it from mikhaila's perspective. If his store doesn't have a product and people are using it, those are potential sales that he's missing out on. Imagine that someone with a Riptide (or some other new kit) plays someone who doesn't have it. After the game, the second player asks the first where he got the cool new model, and the first player points the second towards a GW store or some other retailer that was luckier in terms of being able to get stock. This might actively drive business away from mikhaila!

Similarly, I've seen a lot of stores disallow FW models in local events-- not because FW is unbalanced (though that's a different issue), but because they don't like promoting things that they can't sell themselves. If you're running a tournament, why use it as advertising for things that you can't provide?

I'm sorry, this is my fault, guys; every time I'm tempted to break my self-imposed GW ban, something like this happens to remind me why I shouldn't. It's like they know some how. And while I'd like to think that GW didn't do this in a deliberate attempt to screw over indies (though my inner cynic is screaming this very thing, especially because GW Stores certainly haven't had this problem), I do have to shake my head that they can't keep up with demand when they control pretty much every step of the process.

So I guess this is the proof that a one week pre-order period is insufficient to gauge levels of demand and set manufacture quantites accordingly. It was always going to bite then in the ass at some point. This is of course assuming incompetence, if this is intentional I don't see GWs relationship with FLGS's improving any.

 oni wrote:
I understand demand exceeding initial production. It happens... a lot! In fact I think it's quite cool that GW sold out of their initial production. It makes me feel as though the state of the hobby and GW isn't as bleak and desolate as everyone (Dakka) makes it out to be.

 mikhaila wrote:

When they ship orders to FLGS, they start with the furthest away, who need 3-4 days. And they ran out.

But this ^

This is the most poorly conceived 'method' of distribution I've ever heard of.

Not really, it seems to be intended to get the stuff to everyone at the same time. Start with the furthest away, then ship the closer places and everyone gets the product at roughly he sme ime. I do a lot of shipping in the wine industry and we do it the same way. On Monday's the east coast orders go out, Tuesday is the Midwest, then the west and southwest on Wednesday.

I wonder if stock levels will return to normal once the new "don't sell to Australia or Canada" rules kick in...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I wonder if stock levels will return to normal once the new "don't sell to Australia or Canada" rules kick in...

That's actually a really good point. I wonder if the surge in demand had anything to do with people trying to get their models before the June changes took hold.

 Kingsley wrote:

 Oaka wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:


3) If you really can't wait, then please don't be an utter fool and show up with the models to play with at your FLGS, and throw salt in the wound.

I agree with everything about your post except this. If some stores are running tournaments within the next few weeks, and die-hard Tau players really want to use their new toys in said tournaments, they shouldn't be considered 'utter fools'. You'd still be getting business from the entry fees, and perhaps the store owner could be smart enough to provide an 'extra' discount to anyone who sees that new Riptide during the tournament and really wants one if they just wait until that store gets it in stock.

While I sympathize with your position, you gotta look at it from mikhaila's perspective. If his store doesn't have a product and people are using it, those are potential sales that he's missing out on. Imagine that someone with a Riptide (or some other new kit) plays someone who doesn't have it. After the game, the second player asks the first where he got the cool new model, and the first player points the second towards a GW store or some other retailer that was luckier in terms of being able to get stock. This might actively drive business away from mikhaila!

Similarly, I've seen a lot of stores disallow FW models in local events-- not because FW is unbalanced (though that's a different issue), but because they don't like promoting things that they can't sell themselves. If you're running a tournament, why use it as advertising for things that you can't provide?

Sorry, seemed like common sense not to rub salt in a wound. This move by GW, intentional or not, is going to cause a lot of strain on your local store.

If I ran a tournament, people could use the new codex and run whatever models they got from wherever.

But if you don't need to use the model, remember that GW just reamed your local store. Do you really want to walk in this weekend and rub their noses in it? If you want to run a riptide just proxy a dreadnaught or something.

 Ozymandias wrote:

 oni wrote:
I understand demand exceeding initial production. It happens... a lot! In fact I think it's quite cool that GW sold out of their initial production. It makes me feel as though the state of the hobby and GW isn't as bleak and desolate as everyone (Dakka) makes it out to be.

 mikhaila wrote:

When they ship orders to FLGS, they start with the furthest away, who need 3-4 days. And they ran out.

But this ^

This is the most poorly conceived 'method' of distribution I've ever heard of.

Not really, it seems to be intended to get the stuff to everyone at the same time. Start with the furthest away, then ship the closer places and everyone gets the product at roughly he sme ime. I do a lot of shipping in the wine industry and we do it the same way. On Monday's the east coast orders go out, Tuesday is the Midwest, then the west and southwest on Wednesday.

I agree, it sounds like a method of shipping so that everyone can release at the same time.

Except that they follow it up with "oh well, not everyone can get it at the same time. Might as well sell what we have in our shops and then, if the FLGS still wants its order, we can get it to them in 3 weeks or when we get around to it."

Rented Tritium wrote:

 oni wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:

When they ship orders to FLGS, they start with the furthest away, who need 3-4 days. And they ran out.

But this ^

This is the most poorly conceived 'method' of distribution I've ever heard of.

This is normal for a strict release date. You want everything to arrive at roughly the same time, so you stagger your shipments from the longest to the shortest. Pre-ordered videogames and books are often shipped this way.

This may be the case, but I fully expect they have their order allotments tallied and rationed before shipping. GW just started grabbing from the pile and suddenly... The pile is gone.

Shotgun wrote:
This certainly blows. And on the heels of recent GW news doesn't do anything to improve GW's image.

Personally, I can't help but think that GW couldn't have seen this coming and couldn't have done something to head this off. At the -very- least GW could hold off on thier own sales until thier FLGS folks have stock to support the kickout.

As far as I can tell, GW isn't doing this and doesn't seem overly concerned about lost sales to an FLGS when the local GW store front will stand to gain the sale.

I'm tempted to see this as a combination of incompetence and malice - though who knows in what proportions...

I have zero interest in Tau, so it doesn't affect me, but it is one more brick in the wall of GW's awful business practices. I'm glad I already have most of what I need/want from GW's range for my two main armies (Necrons - nearly every unit great, and CSM - most new stuff is awful) but this kind of nonsense only makes me want to avoid dealing with them in the future.

Good thing there's Dream Forge!

-C6

I'd bet real good money that GW store will have a nice shiney shelf of tau...

Wow.... This just continues to play into my theory that GW is F'ed and desperate. Deliberately under produce and route stock to your own stores to maximize short term profit.

GW is the last company I would expect to have production issues.

Will have to see how my local FLGS makes out this Friday.

Look at this ethereal, take a deep breath.
Can you feel, how the calm spreads and you have the patience to wait for the new tau products to arrive?

I think this is more a side effect of GW trying to squeeze a LOT of updates out in one year than anything of malice. Their own draconian ways of operating are hurting them bad. But really, think about all the releases in the last 6 months. They're not really as big a company as they act like they are, and I believe they spread themselves too thin, then tried to give what they actually did get made to their own stores first to make as much profit as possible. GW really needs to get rid of their weird "Let's have our own shops" idea, and just give the local shops more help to push their product. There's not even a GW store within a hundred miles from where I live. It's nothing but locals. And every single one of them is worthy of my cash in some way, even if they don't have GW products. Modeling supplies are always nice.

 Hulksmash wrote:
You guys act like GW is the only company to not have enough of a product at launch. This happens. And it's the first time I can remember it happening with a launch product since I've been collecting for the last 15+ years (granted only been paying attention for the last 10 or so)

You obviously weren't paying attention when Death from the Skies was released earlier this year...

I think they just weren't prepared for Tau to actually be as popular as they are given how little it's been selling in the past year or so. I mean I'm genuinely surprised at it.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Support your local store.

Do not buy from a GW store.

Wait a little while, make the purchase, help the guy to stay open and provide you with a place to play...

GW is doing away with gaming instore, support your local friendly games store, it's enlightened self interest, to keep other ranges easily accessible and maintain somewhere to play.

This, in a nutshell.

 insaniak wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
You guys act like GW is the only company to not have enough of a product at launch. This happens. And it's the first time I can remember it happening with a launch product since I've been collecting for the last 15+ years (granted only been paying attention for the last 10 or so)

You obviously weren't paying attention when Death from the Skies was released earlier this year...

"Launch Product". Maybe I wasn't clear with that. Meaning new codexes with their associated launch. Death from the Skies wasn't a general release item from the start. Unlike their new products that go with codexes. But yeah, be snarky when the intent of the comment was pretty obvious.

As for purchasing I'm still going to be purchasing my Codex and some standard stuff from my local stores and I'll wait for my pre-order from Frontline whenever they can get it to me

There is one way to know if this was intentional or not: review the next report to the investors and see if it proudly proclaims how the Tau release was such a massive success that they sold out before it even launched. Then you'll know they planned an intentional shortage of the product.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
There is one way to know if this was intentional or not: review the next report to the investors and see if it proudly proclaims how the Tau release was such a massive success that they sold out before it even launched. Then you'll know they planned an intentional shortage of the product.

Because it could not be accidental and touted the same way?

Hopefully you'll be able to look over the Codex and advise your customers what units you actually think will be good. I know it's a bit of a crap silver lining for such a dark cloud, but hopefully it's something.

I take it you didn't even get replenishment of existing Tau product? Fire Warriors, Stealth Suits etc etc

I can wait. I need the time to dig out my Tau army anyway, and I'm not at all sure where a goodly part of it is (HH turrets, my broadsides, crisis suits, etc).

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Wait a little while, make the purchase, help the guy to stay open and provide you with a place to play...

GW is doing away with gaming instore, support your local friendly games store, it's enlightened self interest, to keep other ranges easily accessible and maintain somewhere to play.

Sadly the concept of a "local store" is something of a rarity in our neck of the woods.

I'll bet the recasters have supply in notime

At the rate they are going you will have to recast if you want a second model.

one of my walls has fresh dents in it from the news I got today

Couldn't they have used the money they saved from shutting down the freeloading online sellers to make sure they had enough product for the brick and mortar stores they supported with that policy?

/snark

This sucks, I've confirmed with a half dozen local gaming stores in Ontario and so far all of them are right on track for getting what they ordered.


<Start Soapbox>

I stopped playing Warhammer 40,000 and even I am going to say some of the conspiracy theories and allegations being made towards Games Workshop are fairly out of this world. You know when you're out with a group of people and some guy starts talking about how Reptoids are taking our skin and controlling our leaders? That's what these threads are starting to sound like.

What drives me insane is some of the same people bashing GW will go defend other companies for this EXACT same kind of shortage or failure to deliver a product on time. Yet I have not found another company who will offer the level of customer service as Games Workshop does. Most companies will make you wait weeks for the single part you are missing on a kit, what does GW do? Often send you an entirely new kit.

Let's be reasonable here guys. This is not a conspiracy meant to destroy the FLGS or anyone else.


P.S. If this truly was an intentional act to destroy FLGS then I think those guys talking about the Reptoid Aliens controlling our leaders are on to something.

<End Soapbox>


(Also, I am very sorry to any retailers here on Dakka who did not get their products, GW should do something to make up the loss of sales to you.)

 IdentifyZero wrote:
You know when you're out with a group of people and some guy starts talking about how Reptoids are taking our skin and controlling our leaders?

 motyak wrote:

 IdentifyZero wrote:
You know when you're out with a group of people and some guy starts talking about how Reptoids are taking our skin and controlling our leaders?

Epic pic.

 IdentifyZero wrote:
Let's be reasonable here guys. This is not a conspiracy meant to destroy the FLGS or anyone else.

You know what, it probably isn't. As has been pointed out there are a half dozen other reasons that could be why this has happened. I'm still getting out my tinfoil hat and saying intentional though because there is a point where 'never attribute to malice what can be attributed to ignorance' simply stops working to defend something. This has happened right off the back of GW putting into place all those policies in the US to stop me buying from people over there, they don't get the benefit of the doubt in my mind.

I have to agree that this is intentional on GW's part. A conspiracy theory it may be, but GW's past actions give it some very strong legs to stand, and run, on. Other companies may have made similar mistakes, but they don't have GW's history.

I think I need to invest in tin.

 mikhaila wrote:

Big post

So, because some store got hurt feelings from not being able to get the new model i should just axe it?
By this logic i shouldn't play conversions, because they cant possibly sell that model.
Im sorry,, but what right does a store have to tell me i cant play with something i bought.
Gaming stores have to expect that not everything will be bought from them.

 jonolikespie wrote:

 IdentifyZero wrote:
Let's be reasonable here guys. This is not a conspiracy meant to destroy the FLGS or anyone else.

You know what, it probably isn't. As has been pointed out there are a half dozen other reasons that could be why this has happened. I'm still getting out my tinfoil hat and saying intentional though because there is a point where 'never attribute to malice what can be attributed to ignorance' simply stops working to defend something. This has happened right off the back of GW putting into place all those policies in the US to stop me buying from people over there, they don't get the benefit of the doubt in my mind.

Fellow Australian buyer here, and member of the 'no conspiracy here' camp. It's only likely to be a delay of a few weeks. If it truly was a conspiracy, I don't think they'd be giving them product inside of a fortnight. And again, as an Australian, resellers can still buy them from GW and resell them on eBay to us relatively cheaply.

I've always fallen very much into to the “never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to incompetence” camp, but even I can’t deny that this is just a little too ‘off’ for a simple mistake. You’re really going to tell me that just after these new sales terms get announced that suddenly they’re having stock shortages to everyone but themselves? I bet the stock shortages will get 'sorted out' as soon as the new sales terms go into effect as well.

I guess we’ll see if there are more stock shortages for next month’s big relief.

 IdentifyZero wrote:
What drives me insane is some of the same people bashing GW will go defend other companies for this EXACT same kind of shortage or failure to deliver a product on time.

Citation needed.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:

Big post

So, because some store got hurt feelings from not being able to get the new model i should just axe it?
By this logic i shouldn't play conversions, because they cant possibly sell that model.
Im sorry,, but what right does a store have to tell me i cant play with something i bought.
Gaming stores have to expect that not everything will be bought from them.

I think the point here is GW are a big evil (I'm talking about all the other stuff they do, not pushing the conspiracy theory here) company trying to push FLGSs out of the equation, we shouldn't let them. If you play at a LGS you should wait a few weeks and buy from them because if GW gets their way that store won't be there much longer and you'll have nowhere to play.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 IdentifyZero wrote:
What drives me insane is some of the same people bashing GW will go defend other companies for this EXACT same kind of shortage or failure to deliver a product on time.

Citation needed.

If I had to guess I would assume he means a particular company that's the second most popular (in NA, anyway) and their constant supply shortages due to high demand.

The difference between that company and GW is that company still manages to make sure that all FLGS manage to get new releases, instead of supplying their own (hypothetical, in this case) chain of retail outlets and basically waving their genitals at FLGS, while simultaneously stopping that mean ol' internet from "ruining the hobby".

Oh im not buying from Gw, I got it from an independent who assures my my order is coming.
What im saying is that stores shouldnt get upset because someone shows up with a model they dont have.

 jonolikespie wrote:

 IdentifyZero wrote:
Let's be reasonable here guys. This is not a conspiracy meant to destroy the FLGS or anyone else.

You know what, it probably isn't. As has been pointed out there are a half dozen other reasons that could be why this has happened. I'm still getting out my tinfoil hat and saying intentional though because there is a point where 'never attribute to malice what can be attributed to ignorance' simply stops working to defend something. This has happened right off the back of GW putting into place all those policies in the US to stop me buying from people over there, they don't get the benefit of the doubt in my mind.

HMMMMMMMMMMMM I wonder if that policy has something to do with what HMBC mentioned a page back about there being a severe lack of FLGS in Australia.

This is poor planning, obviously they under-estimated the demand for tau based on sales from the last few years and it's biting them in the ass. Since they've even had to stop selling to some markets due to selling out online this is obviously not an intentional plan to screw independents, it's simple miscalculation of demand.

Also....for the record....asking the internet would have been frakking pointless, you ask folks if they would buy a product and you'll get a 1000 yes's but when the time to slap money down comes you'll be lucky if you get 50. You want REAL data you base it on sales numbers, those are at least reliable.

Don't blame the LFGS for what GW is doing.

The revenue streamlining process shall continue and these kinds of actions from the corporation will escalate. There will be more so called hiccups to the LFGS.

What I expect is some of those hardcore people making a rush to those GW stores to get their items before it is "sold" out. Man this is going to look so good to GW's bottom line.

I expect more of these kinds of actions coming from Games Workshop in the near future.

TBH,, I think GW is nearing the point where they realize they need to change or adapt sooon or fall behind.
We are already seeing it with the rapid release schedule.

 Adam LongWalker wrote:
Don't blame the LFGS for what GW is doing.

The revenue streamlining process shall continue and these kinds of actions from the corporation will escalate. There will be more so called hiccups to the LFGS.

What I expect is some of those hardcore people making a rush to those GW stores to get their items before it is "sold" out. Man this is going to look so good to GW's bottom line.

I expect more of these kinds of actions coming from Games Workshop in the near future.

I didn't see anyone blaming the FLGS (if that is what you mean by LFGS).

I do see people encouraging others not to buy product from Games workshop though.

I'll be interested to see if my loot comes in on time. My FLGS is nearly as far away from GW US as it can get and still be in the contiguous US, so if they did ship to the further shops first, I'd think I'm at a higher likelihood of getting my own stuff. It'll be a small data point in assessing the truth of what folks have been told.

 IdentifyZero wrote:

 Adam LongWalker wrote:
Don't blame the LFGS for what GW is doing.

The revenue streamlining process shall continue and these kinds of actions from the corporation will escalate. There will be more so called hiccups to the LFGS.

What I expect is some of those hardcore people making a rush to those GW stores to get their items before it is "sold" out. Man this is going to look so good to GW's bottom line.

I expect more of these kinds of actions coming from Games Workshop in the near future.

I didn't see anyone blaming the FLGS (if that is what you mean by LFGS).

I do see people encouraging others not to buy product from Games workshop though.

People are going to buy as they deemed as they will as the hardcore are going to get the item's regardless of whom is saying what.

Orktavius wrote:
HMMMMMMMMMMMM I wonder if that policy has something to do with what HMBC mentioned a page back about there being a severe lack of FLGS in Australia.

Your powers of deductive reasoning continue to astound me.

Munga wrote:
I think this is more a side effect of GW trying to squeeze a LOT of updates out in one year than anything of malice. Their own draconian ways of operating are hurting them bad. But really, think about all the releases in the last 6 months. They're not really as big a company as they act like they are, and I believe they spread themselves too thin, then tried to give what they actually did get made to their own stores first to make as much profit as possible. GW really needs to get rid of their weird "Let's have our own shops" idea, and just give the local shops more help to push their product. There's not even a GW store within a hundred miles from where I live. It's nothing but locals. And every single one of them is worthy of my cash in some way, even if they don't have GW products. Modeling supplies are always nice.

The lack of official notice and time to place pre-orders also hurts.

GW's current system basically requires them to predict demand since stores only have a week to place their orders.

Compare with comics where stores place their orders 3 months out.

My two cents...I pre-ordered stuff and look like I will be getting it tomorrow. I will likely have it assembled and ready for action for a tourney this weekend...i will be using the new models without the slightest twinge of guilt because I ordered without any knowledge that GW had planned these shenanigans.

I am very sorry that not everyone will have theirs immediately, but should my $85 model sit at home for some in protest while others use a dreadnaught proxy? I say no...and for those that wo der why i couldn't just wait for the release...I wanted the cillecter's codex and couldn't control the impulse once I was there.

Our rep here in central iowa told us we were getting everything we ordered, but that there would be delays on any additional orders after that. Was quite adamant that there would be no delays on the initial delivery. No idea what will actually happen though.

 Sergeant Horse wrote:
one of my walls has fresh dents in it from the news I got today

What do you think are the chances that the GW store one suburb over will be well stocked with all the newest tau gadgets? So many stores on the North side of Atlanta but only the company store is likely to get stock in sufficient quantities.

 warboss wrote:


What do you think are the chances that the GW store one suburb over will be well stocked with all the newest tau gadgets? So many stores on the North side of Atlanta but only the company store is likely to get stock in sufficient quantities.

That is how it is going down in my neck of the woods. Local GW store confirms that stock will be ready to go at launch while the neither of the two bigger FLGS (one of which has a huge online retail presence) will be getting their stock any time soon. Miniature Market sent emails out saying that they would not have any stock, and pre-orders would be delayed; also that their GW representative could not give them timeline for their order to be fulfilled.

Yeah, I very much doubt that GW planned to have any sort of shortage - it's still in their best interests to get all that extra product out there, whoever its sold through. However, they are going to exploit the hell out of it, and favor their own stores over independent stockists, and pull try to pull more customers back to the GW brick and mortars. It's turning their problem into an opportunity, which really isn't going to make those independents feel any better about GW.

It was only a matter of time before GWs "no pre-release info till it's coming out" strategy backfired on them. I'd be willing to bet real money some suit in GW HQ crunched the numbers for how Tau have been selling the last few years and projected sales using whatever standard formula they use to plan releases, but they didn't realize just how incredibly popular Tau had originally been and how completely UNpopular they have been under 5th and 6th ed. If the accounting guys have poor data to base their projected sales on and are as out of touch with the playerbase as everyone is pretty sure they are then I'm not one bit surprised this happened.

People WANT to play Tau, they look awesome! But they have also outright sucked for 2 editions now. The current tau codex wasn't exactly a powerhouse when it released in 4th and it's only gotten worse as editions made it weaker and new codexes made the competition stronger. So now you have a new codex (presumably following the NewStuffRoxxors! train that everything since Space Wolves has followed) combined with some new hotness models and it was bound to bring back all the anime fanboys. Hell, it almost makes ME want to redo my tau army and I don't even play 40k anymore!

Could it be malice? Possibly, I wouldn't put it past GW. But I think it is actually FAR more likely to do with GW completely missing the mark on their projected sales. If only there was some sort of system where you could announce releases a few months ahead of time and guage interest beforehand. Perhaps have a system where you could order the stuff, but do it previous to release somehow. Alas, such technology is too far out of reach for a small mom & pop garage company like Games Workshop.

Wait, wait , wait!...
Did I see it confirmed that the Memphis facility is no longer producing plastics?
When the hell did that happen?
And how much of a drop in sales volume would that require?
If anything is an indicator that GW doesn't sell as much, this is a big one.

As far as buying stuff from GW and showing up at the FLGS with it, that is just rude when the FLGS has no opportunity to buy, and based on the pricing, is losing thousands of dollars off this incident.

I am not thinking it is definitely a GW conspiracy to screw FLGSs, but it makes the spidey sense tingle. It's too similar to what happened when new GWs opened down the street from FLGSs back in the late 90's.

With the amount of Tau players who got shafted in recent rulesets, it's no surprise they want to get back up to speed when they get the chance.

With more hype, they can gauge the level of interest, and get their manufacture orders in place in time.
No hype, no clue.

Stoopid GW.

Orktavius wrote:

Also....for the record....asking the internet would have been frakking pointless, you ask folks if they would buy a product and you'll get a 1000 yes's but when the time to slap money down comes you'll be lucky if you get 50. You want REAL data you base it on sales numbers, those are at least reliable.

Yeah, it's not like there's a whole industry based around market research, and figuring our what customers are likely to buy...

The most likely issue here is probably their manufacturing arm is having issues produce all these models, and then the next line of models, and the next after it.

You will never hear a company as small as GW tell anyone (nor really have anyone care to investigate unlike Apple for example) what is clogging the pipelines on a product release. I know from the point of view of my company, we always have shortages and issues with the warehouse and manufacturing arms getting product to retail because of various issues that arrive.

Pushing the manufacturing capacity of the Tau line followed by and preceded by multitudes of other models might be straining their ability to keep up with demand.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
they’re having stock shortages to everyone but themselves?

I guess GW's own webstore doesn't count as "themself."

I was in GW yesterday and the manager of my local said they weren't getting vast quantities in themselves and that the web sales had already sold out in the uk. GW just completely misunderstood their market again, not sure why anyone is surprised lol.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:

Big post

So, because some store got hurt feelings from not being able to get the new model i should just axe it?
By this logic i shouldn't play conversions, because they cant possibly sell that model.
Im sorry,, but what right does a store have to tell me i cant play with something i bought.
Gaming stores have to expect that not everything will be bought from them.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Oh im not buying from Gw, I got it from an independent who assures my my order is coming.
What im saying is that stores shouldnt get upset because someone shows up with a model they dont have.

I suppose it depends on how considerate a person you are.

One of the other threads on this topic started with an email from Alexi, the owner of Dark Sphere. Now, I know Alexi reasonably well, he is a nice enough bloke. We aren't close mates or anything, but I wouldn't want to deliberately upset him. Hell, I've even met his Mum when she has helped out at the store and she is a lovely lady, and I know Andy, who works there, quite well. Now, there is nothing stopping me taking Riptides to the store to play, but it would be a slap in the face for them that I don't think they deserve. Now, maybe a tournament would be different, but I would suggest that for friendly gaming, you don't need your Riptide yet. I used to play quite a lot of DnD in the store there, and Andy would regularly stay back for little or no extra wages to enable us to do so. As a result, I buy stuff from the store that I could get elsewhere. Not everything, but quite a few things. Why would I want to say to them that even though they will put themselves out for me, I will not do the same for them. Bad enough to not buy a Riptide at Dark Sphere (not that I want one), but to take it to the store and show them that I didn't wait for them is just mean.

It is not always about your "rights" or what you are entitled to do, but about being considerate, and thinking about what you are able to do.

Orktavius wrote:
You want REAL data you base it on sales numbers, those are at least reliable.

And your "real data" will be equally pointless, because you're talking about an army that went through an entire edition without an update. If Tau sales were low it's because the army hasn't gotten new rules or models in years, not because the army itself is unpopular and won't sell anymore.

 Sidstyler wrote:

Orktavius wrote:
You want REAL data you base it on sales numbers, those are at least reliable.

And your "real data" will be equally pointless, because you're talking about an army that went through an entire edition without an update. If Tau sales were low it's because the army hasn't gotten new rules or models in years, not because the army itself is unpopular and won't sell anymore.

His real data and your real date are just as garbage in the real world, so there is no sense in trying to use actual logic or fact to discuss an illogical topic where we have none of the facts.

Nothing in this post is based upon facts, not even the FLGS claiming they will lose 'hundreds' (Unless they had pre-orders and people CANCEL those pre-orders without a doubt and then they should wonder about the loyalty of their customers), a product release was no guarantee of any sales.

Guess what, GW is not the first company to experience a shortage of stock. They won't be the last.

I am sure in this great conspiracy to screw the FLGS, they also forgot to make enough stock for their own stores, ya? Oh wait... it seems they did.

When it really comes down to it, if GW truly wants to cut off all non GW stores from its products..it can, they make the stuff, they can choose to sell it or supply it how they like (baring any specific contracts and such).

If they wanted to they could have just made the Tau launch a GW limited only one, and keep it all to themselves, would it hurt the over all sales, maybe..but they would cut out the middleman.

That may be what eventually GW will do, and if so why not just rip the bandaid off all in one go, and not in little increments.

As much as I dislike some of GW's protocols and procedures, I think this time it just falls to a penny pinching sales figure and a underestimated demand, it just smells of cutbacks and dumb calls.

Just my opinion of course.

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
When it really comes down to it, if GW truly wants to cut off all non GW stores from its products..it can, they make the stuff, they can choose to sell it or supply it how they like (baring any specific contracts and such).

If they wanted to they could have just made the Tau launch a GW limited only one, and keep it all to themselves, would it hurt the over all sales, maybe..but they would cut out the middleman.

That may be what eventually GW will do, and if so why not just rip the bandaid off all in one go, and not in little increments.

As much as I dislike some of GW's protocols and procedures, I think this time it just falls to a penny pinching sales figure and a underestimated demand, it just smells of cutbacks and dumb calls.

Just my opinion of course.

VERY Sensible Opinion.

I think so far GW has not been shy about announcing when they are purposely screwing retailers over.

Orktavius wrote:

This is poor planning, obviously they under-estimated the demand for tau based on sales from the last few years and it's biting them in the ass. Since they've even had to stop selling to some markets due to selling out online this is obviously not an intentional plan to screw independents, it's simple miscalculation of demand.

Also....for the record....asking the internet would have been frakking pointless, you ask folks if they would buy a product and you'll get a 1000 yes's but when the time to slap money down comes you'll be lucky if you get 50. You want REAL data you base it on sales numbers, those are at least reliable.

Root cause analysis + Process improvement are principal management mantras these days, have been for a long time, if they can't even recognize that the line received no updates or publicity for years and that therefore 'sales in the last few years' would give them flawed data, then they need a corporate beheading. It reads like they've not undergone serious auditing for a long time, that, like so many other recent practices, reeks of a yesman culture endemic of a stagnant and inward looking company. Self aggrandizing is a dangerous thing, most other large companies have done away with that sort of thing and focused on complaint recognition and improvement, instead of sticking their fingers in their ears and pretending it's the late 80s... Then again, how old is the board??? Oh yeah, red braces and brick phones. Stagnant.

This sort of balls up, if indeed it is a balls up and not some shady tactic, is demonstrative of a company living in a vacuum and refusing to engage or understand it's customer. It's incompetent. When was the last time you completed an online survey for GW? Or opened a box of product with a feedback form? I've no recollection of ever doing that and that's weird, for a PLC retailer, really bloody weird.

The product is one in a long line of releases, it's is not limited product, it doesn't have a shelf life or freshness, it's going to be on sale for a long time... There is no excuse for this level of bungling.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
When it really comes down to it, if GW truly wants to cut off all non GW stores from its products..it can, they make the stuff, they can choose to sell it or supply it how they like (baring any specific contracts and such).

If they wanted to they could have just made the Tau launch a GW limited only one, and keep it all to themselves, would it hurt the over all sales, maybe..but they would cut out the middleman.

That may be what eventually GW will do, and if so why not just rip the bandaid off all in one go, and not in little increments.

As much as I dislike some of GW's protocols and procedures, I think this time it just falls to a penny pinching sales figure and a underestimated demand, it just smells of cutbacks and dumb calls.

Just my opinion of course.

They may be testing the waters on this, the company is highly conservative and resistant to change, so they could well be engineering that situation to see how it affects sale of the product, pulling this stunt to observe what happens when they remove the 3rd parties from their sales and how that reflects on their own stores. It may be a test run.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

This sort of balls up, if indeed it is a balls up and not some shady tactic, is demonstrative of a company living in a vacuum and refusing to engage or understand it's customer. It's incompetent. When was the last time you completed an online survey for GW? Or opened a box of product with a feedback form? I've no recollection of ever doing that and that's weird, for a PLC retailer, really bloody weird.

You know, I had never noticed the lack of those things, but you're right. Almost everyone else is trying to collect customer feedback. All I can think of that GW collects would be sales data, information about miscasts, and what people put in their wish list. Normally I ignore the darn things, but I probably would put in the effort to fill one out for GW.

That said I'm not sure I've had a feedback form stuffed into the box of any of my miniatures or board games, so it's not really GW doing something weird and wacky on their own.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Orktavius wrote:

This is poor planning, obviously they under-estimated the demand for tau based on sales from the last few years and it's biting them in the ass. Since they've even had to stop selling to some markets due to selling out online this is obviously not an intentional plan to screw independents, it's simple miscalculation of demand.

Also....for the record....asking the internet would have been frakking pointless, you ask folks if they would buy a product and you'll get a 1000 yes's but when the time to slap money down comes you'll be lucky if you get 50. You want REAL data you base it on sales numbers, those are at least reliable.

Root cause analysis + Process improvement are principal management mantras these days, have been for a long time, if they can't even recognize that the line received no updates or publicity for years and that therefore 'sales in the last few years' would give them flawed data, then they need a corporate beheading. It reads like they've not undergone serious auditing for a long time, that, like so many other recent practices, reeks of a yesman culture endemic of a stagnant and inward looking company. Self aggrandizing is a dangerous thing, most other large companies have done away with that sort of thing and focused on complaint recognition and improvement, instead of sticking their fingers in their ears and pretending it's the late 80s... Then again, how old is the board??? Oh yeah, red braces and brick phones. Stagnant.

This sort of balls up, if indeed it is a balls up and not some shady tactic, is demonstrative of a company living in a vacuum and refusing to engage or understand it's customer. It's incompetent. When was the last time you completed an online survey for GW? Or opened a box of product with a feedback form? I've no recollection of ever doing that and that's weird, for a PLC retailer, really bloody weird.

The product is one in a long line of releases, it's is not limited product, it doesn't have a shelf life or freshness, it's going to be on sale for a long time... There is no excuse for this level of bungling.

GW does what they do because they can do it and the vast majority of people in the wargaming community will still support them. The fact is many people have been involved in the GW hobby for decades and GW seems to be content with the position they hold.

It's obvious they don't care about feedback or building hype. They know they don't need to. For every veteran gamer that moves into another system, someone else is dropping money into GW as their entry into wargaming.

What other miniatures company has stores all over the entire world? Bad business practices or not, they recognize they are an industry giant who can do what they want and it blew up with this situation. Somehow I don't think it will change anything.

Maybe someone could help me out here because there is something I just don't understand in all of this.

There are some stores getting nothing, no Codicies, no models, Zilch.
There are other stores getting Codicies and maybe a few other small bits.

GW's own website doesn't have all the models, but the standard codex is unaffected.

People are saying that GW stores will have whatever they pre-ordered, but the independants are losing out.

If this is down to GW underestimating demand and frelling up the numbers, are we expected to believe that some GW executive expects each Tau player to want only a single Riptide OR a single aircraft, but multiple Codicies? After all, they seem to have been more accurate with the number of Codicies they required printing than the number of models they needed to produce. Not that they have had enough of the Codicies printed, from what I heard. Most of the models should have been produced in greater numbers than the number of codicies, with special characters being the only reasonable exception to this as they couldn't expect people to pick up multiple copies of "Longstrike" for the same army. The Riptide may also fall into this category as I don't know if you are allowed more than 1 in a force.

I just don't believe that anyone with that sort of power is actually that stupid. whilst the Codex is from a different production stream to the models, it is much more likely that something unexpected happened to decrease availablility of the models which didn't affect the ability to produce and ship the codecies. As shipping could well be done by the same route for both codicies and models, it seems to convenient that only models were affected in that manner, so it is more likely a problem in production.

Yes, I wanted this to be a great release, but even as someone who has a sizeable Tau force from their first release, I don't relish paying £50 for a big battlesuit, £40 each on fighters or bombers (OK, I should be able to magnetise the weapons and make them swapable, but even so!), £30 each to replace the Broadsides I had with much more versatile models, £20 on the Pathfinder Team to get the cool new drone for the Devilfish, £30 on the Codex itself, £25 on the Battlesuit commander, and £20 on characters. That's best part of £300 and I already have two or three squads of firewarriors, several XV8's, and a squad of Kroot. To start this army from scratch and make a versatile and competetive force could well cost £500.

If stores are getting at least the codex then all hope isn't lost. Grab other models (either GW or not) and get some alien auxileries into your Tau force. AT43 Karmans have fantastic broadside and crisis suit stand ins, as are UNA TAC arms, Redblock Kollossus, and others. I've been looking at Dust Tactic's Grim Reapers as suit stand ins. A huge ammount of model kits can make riptides, infinity has tons of good firewarrior/pathfinder models as does Mercs Minis.

You can still suppory your FLGS, get an added fluff bonus (really mixing in all kinds of odd Xenos is the Tau way of Empire), and for those who think this is all an evil plot you keep your money out of GW's hands. My Tau have plent of non GW minis plus plenty of GW minis. Branching out is cheeper and lets me put in models I like that still well represent the model it replaces.

 IdentifyZero wrote:
GW does what they do because they can do it and the vast majority of people in the wargaming community will still support them. The fact is many people have been involved in the GW hobby for decades and GW seems to be content with the position they hold.

It's obvious they don't care about feedback or building hype. They know they don't need to. For every veteran gamer that moves into another system, someone else is dropping money into GW as their entry into wargaming.

What other miniatures company has stores all over the entire world? Bad business practices or not, they recognize they are an industry giant who can do what they want and it blew up with this situation. Somehow I don't think it will change anything.

An important tidbit of wisdom for GW (and any stock market investor) to remember is: "Past performance is not a guarantee of future results"

Today, they enjoy a dominant market position that allows them to be anti-consumer, anti-independent store and anti-Internet. This does not mean that those actions will not result in an erosion of that market position, which will eventually push the company past a tipping point that it's reluctance to change won't magnify into a full-blown collapse. Nor, in fairness, is that doomsday scenario a certainty either.

However, you do not maintain a position by weakening it which appears to be the direction GW is taking their brand. GW is no where near as dominant in the marketplace as they were even five years ago and their own policies are very much to blame for it. They've had a series of pretty impressive blunders with the models (Dreadfleet, the Hobbit, Tau, etc), and head-scratching policies that have resulted in yet more ill-will and mistakes. A probably very accurate opinion is that the current Tau shortage is not malice, but GW's short pre-order window policy coming back to bite them. This is a company that shows no sign of learning from these errors, which simply means they will be repeated. Most people here do not want to see GW fail, but when they do so little to help themselves it's hard to muster much sympathy for them.

 Sergeant Horse wrote:
one of my walls has fresh dents in it from the news I got today

My company makes a number of product that will help you fix that wall, depending on the size of the dents. You can use the remainder on terrain projects.

Very good points in the OP..

And yes, don't be the guy that shows up to your FLGS that didn't get any inventory with your new Tau models. Seems like common sense, but some people are idiots.

 IdentifyZero wrote:

GW does what they do because they can do it and the vast majority of people in the wargaming community will still support them. The fact is many people have been involved in the GW hobby for decades and GW seems to be content with the position they hold.

It's obvious they don't care about feedback or building hype. They know they don't need to. For every veteran gamer that moves into another system, someone else is dropping money into GW as their entry into wargaming.

What other miniatures company has stores all over the entire world? Bad business practices or not, they recognize they are an industry giant who can do what they want and it blew up with this situation. Somehow I don't think it will change anything.

Being content.
Because they can.
Don't care about feedback.

Empires, historical and business alike, fall when they turn inwards, stagnate and assume themselves eternal. GW only exist in this position for lack of a challenger of sufficient potence, there are several rivals out there all providing a piece of the puzzle but, as of yet, none of them have got it together and offered cheaper, better or as well sculpted, easily obtained miniatures.

Too many are focused on their own games systems, GW openly states 'we are a mini company' because that's where the money is, when a company produces good sculpts, cheaper than GW, that can be used in GW's widely played games systems, that's when the real challenge happens and that's when I can rejoice to see GW revitalize it's self into a better firm, or mourn it's passing and watch what happens to it's IP as the doors are thrown wide open.

Like i said, I think GW is at a turning point, I honestly see them changing for the better in the next few years.

Whether the delay was intentional or not, these things happen in business. Suck it up a wait a few more weeks you crybabies!

.....at least you don't play Bretonnians.

 DX3 wrote:
Very good points in the OP..

And yes, don't be the guy that shows up to your FLGS that didn't get any inventory with your new Tau models. Seems like common sense, but some people are idiots.

What if Tau is my only army and i have the new codex? Am i just supposed to miss out on a few weeks of gaming and possible prizes so people until they get the tau stuff in?

 Fifty wrote:

I suppose it depends on how considerate a person you are.

One of the other threads on this topic started with an email from Alexi, the owner of Dark Sphere. Now, I know Alexi reasonably well, he is a nice enough bloke. We aren't close mates or anything, but I wouldn't want to deliberately upset him. Hell, I've even met his Mum when she has helped out at the store and she is a lovely lady, and I know Andy, who works there, quite well. Now, there is nothing stopping me taking Riptides to the store to play, but it would be a slap in the face for them that I don't think they deserve. Now, maybe a tournament would be different, but I would suggest that for friendly gaming, you don't need your Riptide yet. I used to play quite a lot of DnD in the store there, and Andy would regularly stay back for little or no extra wages to enable us to do so. As a result, I buy stuff from the store that I could get elsewhere. Not everything, but quite a few things. Why would I want to say to them that even though they will put themselves out for me, I will not do the same for them. Bad enough to not buy a Riptide at Dark Sphere (not that I want one), but to take it to the store and show them that I didn't wait for them is just mean.

It is not always about your "rights" or what you are entitled to do, but about being considerate, and thinking about what you are able to do.

Sounds a lot more like an issue of hypersensitivity rather than being considerate. Blaming your patrons for showing up with products that you can't offer and then insulting them on top of it is more than a little ridiculous.

Hey, hotsauceman1, you are 100% entitled to do whatever you like, I am sure.

Just as your FLGS, if he takes exception to you flouting your models at his store and feels you have slighted him, might not go out of his way to keep a his last XXX rules supplment or Ltd Ed Blood Bowl (for example) for you when another loyal customer also wants it. I wonder if you are the sort of person, though, who would think they had something reserved, then get surprised when the store owner instead sold the only copy in the local area to the guy who waited a fortnight for his Tau.

Of course, it may not happen this time, but if you want to have things your way this time, you will probably want it your way next time too, and such an attitude tends to come back to bite you on the arse.

As an example of the opposite, I was mentor to a new teacher about six years ago, and defended her from a lot of bullying, even having to go to the local education authority to stop the school breaking their own rules on how to treat her, let alone union rules. I was also the high-flyer at the school at the time in terms of promotion, etc... so I got away with it, and that teacher went to another school where she was very successful. A few years later though, our head teacher instructed us to cheat on internal tests and report fabricated data and I led the teacher rebellion that led to the head quitting her job. The chair of governors and new head teacher, however, bullied me out of my job, despite me having delivered massively record GCSE results for both of my cohorts, without skullduggery. I was desperate to leave, and got my opportunity at the school my friend had gone to, based initially on good reports from her about me. Good deeds come back to reward you, and being a bit selfish does too.

I mean, I am sure that if you genuinely had only Tau, and really really needed your Riptide to compete in a tournament, rather than just friendly play, and said to the store owner, "Hey Bob, sorry about using this Riptide, I know it is a bit cheeky, but there is really no way around it," then as long as you are a standup guy normally, the store owner would probably understand, even if he is a bit cheesed off, and would not hold it against you, but your whole attitude in this thread, through the admittedly and notoriously difficult lens of the internet, comes acress as "I'll do what I like, and stuff you and everyone else who doesn't like it, regardless of whether I might expect something from you in the future."

For whatever reason/conspiracy the release is delayed, I don't really mind. It will be awhile before I get around to picking up even the codex except to maybe read it at my FLGS. Most people I play with now still have old codexes and we come out relatively balanced, so why should I have the new one and they not? The only reason I would want the new 'dex is to see if it fares any better against my now TWO necron friends (ARRRGGHHH! NECRONS! WHHHYYY! *deep breath*) So for at least a little while I'll be running the old dex like a boss. I don't play competitive either so that wont be a problem. The more I see competitive players in warhammer the less I want to play it even casually. They just rub me the wrong way.

 Danny Internets wrote:
Sounds a lot more like an issue of hypersensitivity rather than being considerate. Blaming your patrons for showing up with products that you can't offer and then insulting them on top of it is more than a little ridiculous.

Really, I don't know at what point I even implied that Alexi or Andy might insult anyone who turned up with a Riptide. Think about it though, this is not just a hobby to them. This is how they make a living. It is, very literally, how they feed their families. Mikhaila feels he is likely to lose hundreds of dollars due to this, and I have no reason to doubt him. Dark Sphere is nowhere near as dependent on GW as it used to be, but I dare say Alexi will take a big hit. Now, I am not even sure Dark Sphere run any 40k tournaments, though I know they organise Apoc games. Stores offer prizes as an incentive to come to the store in the hope you will buy goods from them though. Sure, they wouldn't want to enforce a rule that everything must be bought from them, but why rub their nose in the fact that their business just took a big hit? Maybe it means they can't buy their new laptop, maybe it means they can't get their son those toys for his birthday, maybe it means Alexi works a couple of extra Saturdays and Andy gets fewer shifts, but this is a small company with real human concerns, not shareholders hoping for a dividend. It would not hurt to save using your Riptide for a fortnight if it shows at least a modicum of support for their situation, and, unless 100% necessary, maybe not using it in tournaments either. I mean, sure, do what you are entitled to, but as stated in my previous post, don't expect them to go out of their way for you next time either.

 kronk wrote:

 Sergeant Horse wrote:
one of my walls has fresh dents in it from the news I got today

My company makes a number of product that will help you fix that wall, depending on the size of the dents. You can use the remainder on terrain projects.

hahaha nice, now does your company make gauze because this morning my knuckles regret it

 Danny Internets wrote:

Sounds a lot more like an issue of hypersensitivity rather than being considerate. Blaming your patrons for showing up with products that you can't offer and then insulting them on top of it is more than a little ridiculous.

You are wrong.

I'm not even sure what this thread is about anymore, or if anything new can be said here.

My take is that customers are the least affected party. Both FLGS and GW will lose sales over this. Any customer that wants the merchandise will still get it, they'll just have to wait an extra week or two. So I get mikhaila's frustration. I don't get all the evil empire talk from people who probably wouldn't have rushed to get the shiny new boxed sets at release anyway.

But carry on with the ranting and conspiracies.

It's so kind of GW that they want to make some shelf space for Warzone at our FLGSs... Kudos to GW.

 gorgon wrote:
I'm not even sure what this thread is about anymore, or if anything new can be said here.

My take is that customers are the least affected party. Both FLGS and GW will lose sales over this. Any customer that wants the merchandise will still get it, they'll just have to wait an extra week or two. So I get mikhaila's frustration. I don't get all the evil empire talk from people who probably wouldn't have rushed to get the shiny new boxed sets at release anyway.

But carry on with the ranting and conspiracies.

So you don't understand that FLGS's getting no stock compared to GW stores getting "not all that we wanted and next restock will only be in two weeks so you better hurry up and buy buy buy before it all sells out", is another dick move in the part of GW towards the very LGS's that just last week they claimed were defending with their ban on bit and online sales?

You don't see any hypocrisy on this?

Even if we disregard all the conspiracy theories going around, the sensible moves of a PR conscious company faced with a stock issue would be to:

a) Delay the release until everyone gets the stock that they asked for;
b) Distribute available stock evenly for every retailer, both third party and in-house;

Even if this isn't a deliberate move to shift more sales to GW stores, they still handled the situation in about the worst way possible.

Two local stores (including Sergeant Horse here on dakka) have posted that the estimate they're getting is 3 weeks. One store isn't getting ANY plastics at all whereas the GW store 10 minutes away said they're just not getting as much as they wanted. See the difference? If GW can push a portion of the sales from an indy store to a company store, they make 40% more money from each one of those sales. Do I think that this is some huge conspiracy for the "greater good" of the GW bottom line and that GW purposely ran the product line short? No. Do I think that once GW realized they would run short that they earmarked the majority of their product for their own direct sale use for greater profit on the initial rush at the expense of indy stores? Absolutely.

Wait wait wait. You're telling me the company producing the product is going to have said product in their own stores before third parties will??!? Say it ain't so!

 cincydooley wrote:
Wait wait wait. You're telling me the company producing the product is going to have said product in their own stores before third parties will??!? Say it ain't so!

Worst example of completely missing the point of a thread I've ever seen.

 kronk wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
Wait wait wait. You're telling me the company producing the product is going to have said product in their own stores before third parties will??!? Say it ain't so!

Worst example of completely missing the point of a thread I've ever seen.

I think he gets the point. Just that there shouldn't be surprise that a business would first ensure their supply chain is satisfactory prior to a third party outlet.

It is a regretable miscalculation on demand pure and simple. All this underlying GW as a corporate giant with these vast marketing plans to remove sales from LGS is a bit far fetched and stated by someone that has never been in a corporate meeting for product launch and/or strategy. Yes the inherent goal is to deliver product in channels that maximize profit but each of those channels is sacred and necessary for the livelihood of the company. Simply sacrificing one like a cow and then starving your vertically integrated channel at the same time = HUGE MISS. Nothing sinister.

Given GW's history of P.R smokescreens and their efforts to funnel customers to their stores, both of which have been ramping up lately, I am surprised that there is a single person whose credulity is not strained.

Wake up.

Could a portion of the issue be the fact that the US plant is closed. It's relatively recent (6 months or so) and some stock issues have started happening in that time. Is GW production just not where it needs to be for so many consecutive releases added in to GW Europe/HQ not having a good grasp on the US market and causing a short out across the system?

Seems more reasonable than a conspiracy to drive sales into stores in areas they don't have stores....

 jgemrich wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
Wait wait wait. You're telling me the company producing the product is going to have said product in their own stores before third parties will??!? Say it ain't so!

Worst example of completely missing the point of a thread I've ever seen.

I think he gets the point. Just that there shouldn't be surprise that a business would first ensure their supply chain is satisfactory prior to a third party outlet.

It is a regretable miscalculation on demand pure and simple. All this underlying GW as a corporate giant with these vast marketing plans to remove sales from LGS is a bit far fetched and stated by someone that has never been in a corporate meeting for product launch and/or strategy. Yes the inherent goal is to deliver product in channels that maximize profit but each of those channels is sacred and necessary for the livelihood of the company. Simply sacrificing one like a cow and then starving your vertically integrated channel at the same time = HUGE MISS. Nothing sinister.

Nice words. Now explain how that wonderful business strategy gels with last weeks online and bit sales prohibition?

This & 6th Ed BS is why I put GW in the rear view mirror over a year ago. They're a mega-million dollar operation and they hand out juvenile excuses like 'we ran out' when it comes to a major release where, lo and behold, their stores get stocked but their independent retailers get hosed. And it's not the first time.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Could a portion of the issue be the fact that the US plant is closed. It's relatively recent (6 months or so) ...

Hey Hulk, when did that happen? I thought they'd only just made that plant within the last couple of years, why'd they shutter it so soon?

PhantomViper wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
I'm not even sure what this thread is about anymore, or if anything new can be said here.

My take is that customers are the least affected party. Both FLGS and GW will lose sales over this. Any customer that wants the merchandise will still get it, they'll just have to wait an extra week or two. So I get mikhaila's frustration. I don't get all the evil empire talk from people who probably wouldn't have rushed to get the shiny new boxed sets at release anyway.

But carry on with the ranting and conspiracies.

So you don't understand that FLGS's getting no stock compared to GW stores getting "not all that we wanted and next restock will only be in two weeks so you better hurry up and buy buy buy before it all sells out", is another dick move in the part of GW towards the very LGS's that just last week they claimed were defending with their ban on bit and online sales?

Actually my local GW said don't bother turning up if you're after a Riptide, we didn't get all we asked for and they're all spoken for

PhantomViper wrote:
Even if we disregard all the conspiracy theories going around, the sensible moves of a PR conscious company faced with a stock issue would be to:

a) Delay the release until everyone gets the stock that they asked for;
b) Distribute available stock evenly for every retailer, both third party and in-house;

Even if this isn't a deliberate move to shift more sales to GW stores, they still handled the situation in about the worst way possible.

 warboss wrote:
Two local stores (including Sergeant Horse here on dakka) have posted that the estimate they're getting is 3 weeks. One store isn't getting ANY plastics at all whereas the GW store 10 minutes away said they're just not getting as much as they wanted. See the difference? If GW can push a portion of the sales from an indy store to a company store, they make 40% more money from each one of those sales. Do I think that this is some huge conspiracy for the "greater good" of the GW bottom line and that GW purposely ran the product line short? No. Do I think that once GW realized they would run short that they earmarked the majority of their product for their own direct sale use for greater profit on the initial rush at the expense of indy stores? Absolutely.

Of course they're taking care of their own stores first. They should care more about customers being turned away at company stores than at other retailers. Because they're the stores with the Games Workshop name on them. Right?

Note that "PR" isn't really the right terminology here. Again, the public (i.e. customers) are inconvenienced somewhere no matter who gets the stock. The issue is between GW and retailers. And while I agree that this situation stinks for retailers, I don't see how customers more or less cutting-and-pasting old anti-GW rants is really helping them. If you feel strongly about this, perhaps you can visit your FLGS on Tau release day and buy something for another game system.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jgemrich wrote:
I think he gets the point. Just that there shouldn't be surprise that a business would first ensure their supply chain is satisfactory prior to a third party outlet.

It is a regretable miscalculation on demand pure and simple. All this underlying GW as a corporate giant with these vast marketing plans to remove sales from LGS is a bit far fetched and stated by someone that has never been in a corporate meeting for product launch and/or strategy. Yes the inherent goal is to deliver product in channels that maximize profit but each of those channels is sacred and necessary for the livelihood of the company. Simply sacrificing one like a cow and then starving your vertically integrated channel at the same time = HUGE MISS. Nothing sinister.

Well put. The phrase that was going around in my cranium was "falling on its sword." Some people might like to see that happen, but that doesn't make it sound business strategy.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
I'm not even sure what this thread is about anymore, or if anything new can be said here.

My take is that customers are the least affected party. Both FLGS and GW will lose sales over this. Any customer that wants the merchandise will still get it, they'll just have to wait an extra week or two. So I get mikhaila's frustration. I don't get all the evil empire talk from people who probably wouldn't have rushed to get the shiny new boxed sets at release anyway.

But carry on with the ranting and conspiracies.

So you don't understand that FLGS's getting no stock compared to GW stores getting "not all that we wanted and next restock will only be in two weeks so you better hurry up and buy buy buy before it all sells out", is another dick move in the part of GW towards the very LGS's that just last week they claimed were defending with their ban on bit and online sales?

Actually my local GW said don't bother turning up if you're after a Riptide, we didn't get all we asked for and they're all spoken for

Thank you for proving my point for me.

PhantomViper wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
I'm not even sure what this thread is about anymore, or if anything new can be said here.

My take is that customers are the least affected party. Both FLGS and GW will lose sales over this. Any customer that wants the merchandise will still get it, they'll just have to wait an extra week or two. So I get mikhaila's frustration. I don't get all the evil empire talk from people who probably wouldn't have rushed to get the shiny new boxed sets at release anyway.

But carry on with the ranting and conspiracies.

So you don't understand that FLGS's getting no stock compared to GW stores getting "not all that we wanted and next restock will only be in two weeks so you better hurry up and buy buy buy before it all sells out", is another dick move in the part of GW towards the very LGS's that just last week they claimed were defending with their ban on bit and online sales?

Actually my local GW said don't bother turning up if you're after a Riptide, we didn't get all we asked for and they're all spoken for

Thank you for proving my point for me.

He didn't prove your point though.

PhantomViper wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
I'm not even sure what this thread is about anymore, or if anything new can be said here.

My take is that customers are the least affected party. Both FLGS and GW will lose sales over this. Any customer that wants the merchandise will still get it, they'll just have to wait an extra week or two. So I get mikhaila's frustration. I don't get all the evil empire talk from people who probably wouldn't have rushed to get the shiny new boxed sets at release anyway.

But carry on with the ranting and conspiracies.

So you don't understand that FLGS's getting no stock compared to GW stores getting "not all that we wanted and next restock will only be in two weeks so you better hurry up and buy buy buy before it all sells out", is another dick move in the part of GW towards the very LGS's that just last week they claimed were defending with their ban on bit and online sales?

Actually my local GW said don't bother turning up if you're after a Riptide, we didn't get all we asked for and they're all spoken for

Thank you for proving my point for me.

To be fair, everyone wants a riptide. I don't play Tau, dislike most of the models, and even I want a riptide!

 Hulksmash wrote:
Could a portion of the issue be the fact that the US plant is closed. It's relatively recent (6 months or so) and some stock issues have started happening in that time. Is GW production just not where it needs to be for so many consecutive releases added in to GW Europe/HQ not having a good grasp on the US market and causing a short out across the system?

Seems more reasonable than a conspiracy to drive sales into stores in areas they don't have stores....

Not really I am afraid as the US plant only had about 50 IIRC or so of the more popular molds, Rhino, IG Infantry Tac marines etc. I think its pretty unlikely that a mold for a new release and basically untested ( via sales) product would be given a second mold from the start, those things can run around $40K each to make depending on what type of kit it is. Honestly they knew they were closing the plant and knew there would not be a second area for production so if any thing it would have increased the amount of production to compensate for the closing of the US facility. At least that would make sense. I have seen these machines work, they can crank out rhinos every 18 seconds, so i hardly think they ran out of time. The only thing i can think of at this time is that due to the increased amount of releases and the "elimination" of waves is that, provided they did not add new machines to the UK facility the production, the schedule to keep current kits in stock as well as produce new ones has made a bit of a log jam.

GW shops are auto stocked bases on their sales History, they don't get to pick and choose what they carry or how much they get of a new release, its all dictated to them and adjusted based on their sales history. Sure they are going to have some stock but if you think your gonna walk into a shop as see 40 boxes of riptides your crazy. Pre-orders are guaranteed if placed by the end of the weekend they are released for pre sale according to the website. What is the penalty if the products do not show up? No idea. But this notion that GW shops got " all they wanted " would only really apply to the pro-orders done before close of business on Easter Sunday, and that was a Holiday for the one man shops so they only got to do orders on Saturday. We will see if they really got all those pre-orders filled by this weekend. Its a ugly sitch all the way around.

I am also pretty sure that the B&M stores make a considerable amount of cash for GW and doing anything to directly "hurt" them is not in any business manual I have ever seen. It sucks to be sure but as for it being intentional, well every one is going to make their own mind up regardless of the evidence or lack there of. I have worked my share of B&M shops most carried FULL GW lines so I know very well what something like this does to those shops. Its not good. Hopefully this will not happen again.

A wise general once said.

"if it happens once its an accident, twice is a coincidence, three times is enemy action."

----

Personally I gave up GW games last July, right after the 6th Ed release/ Price hike. It was the straw that broke this camel's back.

Now I get that people still like GW games, and play them. Heck more power to you.

My issue is that FLGS (here in the US anyway) are great centers to get together meet new folks and have a great time. The owners work long hours, deal with IMHO extremely finicky customers, online retailers that are cheaper and in GW's case direct competition from the manufacturer.

Keep in mind that just because your FLGS is buying at wholesale doesn't mean that he is making a 40% profit on what you buy. The owner has to cover things like the lease, electricity, Interwebs that we all demand, overhead like stock, payroll, ect. He might make $2 on that $25 solo you just bought, and if you factor in the part where its been on the shelf for 6 month, he has actually probably lost a little or hopefully broke even on it.

This is why new releases are important for the FLGS they are items that can be turned over quickly (like same day) they kinda the life blood and where the FLGS get the money to do things like upgrade terrain, or put that TV in that you want so you can look at something while you are there for hours painting.

OTOH, we all get that "Oh shiny model, must have it now!" syndrome. but if you can hold off for just a bit it goes a long way to keeping your store open and the owner sane.

Pretty obvious this was all deliberate. The key is to just wait it out until your FLGS finally gets their Tau.

 Harriticus wrote:
Pretty obvious this was all deliberate. The key is to just wait it out until your FLGS finally gets their Tau.

Oh yeah, absolutely it was deliberate. It's so obvious that the way to make money is to not stock your stores, your independent stores, or your websites fully....

@Captain Vyper

But a lot of those basic molds being run off seperately at a different location took pressure off the main plant. If they didn't increase capacity (due to lower volumes or whatever) the shortage could easily shift to new releases. Especially on this release schedule.

@fifty if I reserved that order, then yes I would be surprised And angry. He had no right to sell my order. You act like IM going to go in laughing in everybody that I got it. I would just go into and play it.

PhantomViper wrote:

 jgemrich wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
Wait wait wait. You're telling me the company producing the product is going to have said product in their own stores before third parties will??!? Say it ain't so!

Worst example of completely missing the point of a thread I've ever seen.

I think he gets the point. Just that there shouldn't be surprise that a business would first ensure their supply chain is satisfactory prior to a third party outlet.

It is a regretable miscalculation on demand pure and simple. All this underlying GW as a corporate giant with these vast marketing plans to remove sales from LGS is a bit far fetched and stated by someone that has never been in a corporate meeting for product launch and/or strategy. Yes the inherent goal is to deliver product in channels that maximize profit but each of those channels is sacred and necessary for the livelihood of the company. Simply sacrificing one like a cow and then starving your vertically integrated channel at the same time = HUGE MISS. Nothing sinister.

Nice words. Now explain how that wonderful business strategy gels with last weeks online and bit sales prohibition?

Neither of those are consider by the GW corporation as a sales channel. GW has (since 2003 in US) disallowed shopping cart purchase of their products. GW sees stocked retail game stores (third party and corporate) as essential to their brand and the hobby. -

So this supports my supposition that GW would not inherently damage one of their desireable sales channel (LGS).

GW trade statement wrote:Equally important to the success of GAMES WORKSHOP is a vibrant network of Retailers committed to preserving the integrity of the GAMES WORKSHOP brand and the promotion of the hobby that it serves.

The first thing I think of when reading about the Tau running out of product to sell? Well, it's how certain people always are willing to entirely axe an army (locally Black Templars are a good example) because "no one plays it". Well, I'm quite sure Tau hasn't sold much either in recent years, locally I've seen them on the table maybe twice in the last 9 months or so since I started playing.

And now here we have happening what I've always said in such discussions - update, and voila, sales take care of themselves. I mean even an idiot should be able to figure out that armies such as Tau or BT that haven't seen an update since the Neanderthals went extinct will not sell nearly as much as recently updated armies.

Also it goes to show that even GW has no idea how popular their armies actually are

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
@fifty if I reserved that order, then yes I would be surprised And angry. He had no right to sell my order. You act like IM going to go in laughing in everybody that I got it. I would just go into and play it.

I think that is my point - unless you've paid upfront, he has every right to sell your order to someone else, and he has every right to not even let you in his store, with or without the Riptide you may or may not buy from GW. (Also, reserved and ordered are not the same thing, though I admit they are very similar) I very much doubt they'd do it, as it would probably lose them at least some money, but every shop owner has the right to refuse service. As I said, maybe the internets is distorting the point you are trying to make, but it comes across as if you feel the owner of your local FLGS is an automaton whose sole purpose is to serve your gaming needs, and that he is privileged you should grace his store with your presence. Even "I would just go in and play it" shows that you haven't stopped to think that it might be a bit of a snub to the guy who has gone to the trouble of organising the tournament in which you are about to play. It is hardly the worst thing in the world, but it is not the nothing you make it out to be. I don't know why this bothers me so much, to be honest, but your attitude does upset me.

 Fifty wrote:
Snip.

Alright, I was under the impression, here reserve means you pay for it up-front and the product is set aside only for you. What im saying that the gamestores KNOW that they are unique in the way they offer a place to use their product, it is pretty much a requirement to run a game store. But in this day they also know that there are discount stores and retailers and things like ebay. They know that those services exist and steal sales from them. but they will continue to to let you play in hopes that you buy. So they shouldn't be upset when those models come up, nor should i be shamed for using a different method other then their store, I got the codex and Riptide for 110$ from a discount, it is coming late but im getting it for cheap. This is my preferred method because i work very little(18 hour weeks at 8.03$ a hour) so this is the only way i could afford both of those. I should not be shamed or feel bad because i did what was conviniant to me. Recently when I told someone my plan to buy at a store they shamed me because im not buying from the store that i was playing at(Little did they know i built 95% of my SM army there)
My point is, Stores and people should not feel sensitive when someone doesnt buy from them because it isnt a slight, just most likely what is convininat for them.

The way you have explained it there sounds more reasonable, and a lot less "FLGS can suck it". I would say too, that I don't think you should never use stuff from a store if you didn't buy it there, but using a Riptide in the next few days is a totally different kick in the teeth. As I said, I played DnD at Dark Sphere, which I feel fine about, despite buying few of the books there, but I bought most of my 40k stuff there. I'd feel a bit awkward playing a different game there that refused to let Dark Sphere stock their product...

PhantomViper wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
I'm not even sure what this thread is about anymore, or if anything new can be said here.

My take is that customers are the least affected party. Both FLGS and GW will lose sales over this. Any customer that wants the merchandise will still get it, they'll just have to wait an extra week or two. So I get mikhaila's frustration. I don't get all the evil empire talk from people who probably wouldn't have rushed to get the shiny new boxed sets at release anyway.

But carry on with the ranting and conspiracies.

So you don't understand that FLGS's getting no stock compared to GW stores getting "not all that we wanted and next restock will only be in two weeks so you better hurry up and buy buy buy before it all sells out", is another dick move in the part of GW towards the very LGS's that just last week they claimed were defending with their ban on bit and online sales?

Actually my local GW said don't bother turning up if you're after a Riptide, we didn't get all we asked for and they're all spoken for

Thank you for proving my point for me.

Um, he did the opposite...

 Lobukia wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
I'm not even sure what this thread is about anymore, or if anything new can be said here.

My take is that customers are the least affected party. Both FLGS and GW will lose sales over this. Any customer that wants the merchandise will still get it, they'll just have to wait an extra week or two. So I get mikhaila's frustration. I don't get all the evil empire talk from people who probably wouldn't have rushed to get the shiny new boxed sets at release anyway.

But carry on with the ranting and conspiracies.

So you don't understand that FLGS's getting no stock compared to GW stores getting "not all that we wanted and next restock will only be in two weeks so you better hurry up and buy buy buy before it all sells out", is another dick move in the part of GW towards the very LGS's that just last week they claimed were defending with their ban on bit and online sales?

Actually my local GW said don't bother turning up if you're after a Riptide, we didn't get all we asked for and they're all spoken for

Thank you for proving my point for me.

Um, he did the opposite...

No, it's an evil plot by GW, they're trying to confuse us! I'm not falling for it though, because I'm a potato!

Posted in wrong thread, sorry.

My argument is moot for me, My store is getting everything they ordered.
And im getting mine next wednesday. Oh well I needed to study this weekend.

 gorgon wrote:
I'm not even sure what this thread is about anymore, or if anything new can be said here.

My take is that customers are the least affected party. Both FLGS and GW will lose sales over this. Any customer that wants the merchandise will still get it, they'll just have to wait an extra week or two. So I get mikhaila's frustration. I don't get all the evil empire talk from people who probably wouldn't have rushed to get the shiny new boxed sets at release anyway.

But carry on with the ranting and conspiracies.

but if GW shops both the online and the brick and mortar ones gets resupplied faster then the FLGS , then people will just buy from them and FLGS may get the stuff in the end , but it lots of it will stay on the shelfs , because people will have already bought it from GW. No one is going to wait 3 weeks and then another 2-3 weeks when spring is near too many tournaments , too much free time .

Well one take home message for GW is.. ......

WOW they buy this stuff like mad at current prices there must be room for a price increase for sure!

Shhhh! You shouldn't joke about things like that!

All i have to say is watch the SAME thing happen to eldar because they dont learn.....silly GW

Sorry, but after my "F"LGS decided to ban Death From The Skies because they were mad, I've been left with a 80 dollar SM Stormraven I can't use.

They don't get my business, they're just as bad as GW in screwing their own customers. I'll be buying from Amazon or GW Direct.

 Sergeant Horse wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 Sergeant Horse wrote:
one of my walls has fresh dents in it from the news I got today

My company makes a number of product that will help you fix that wall, depending on the size of the dents. You can use the remainder on terrain projects.

hahaha nice, now does your company make gauze because this morning my knuckles regret it

Why use that when you could use this to cover up the holes. It'd help, right?

Shotgun wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
You guys act like GW is the only company to not have enough of a product at launch. This happens. And it's the first time I can remember it happening with a launch product since I've been collecting for the last 15+ years (granted only been paying attention for the last 10 or so). Chill out, support your local store. At least the book is available in proper numbers (which really makes me think that the production run numbers weren't properly set-up for this many large releases in a row). Codexes are easy to ensure proper numbers, new kits not so much.

Your post has the core of my skeptisim about this "failure to launch". GW has been doing this for -years- without a hickup. New race, new codex, new editions...all have launched without major supply issues.

Now comes a major relaunch and somehow we are to believe that they so blatently failed at production or knowing how much to produce that not only can they not ship to FLGs, they can't fill thier own preorders?

And thier response isn't to push back the release it is to "be patient. we don't know how long you need to be patient, just be patient." All the while their corporate brick and mortar shops have the new releases in stock and will be selling?

Sorry. It's tooooo neat and tidy for them in my opinion. If this truely is a production issue, then push the release date back and hold sales from the corporate shops. They won't because they know they can steal sales from the FLGS where they have corporate shops in the area.

This is a very convenient inconvenience for GW. Guess which army exceed all expectations... Tau... They got to screw over all stores in the US twice in two months?? For a company that has been running like a Swiss clock 15 years now it is hard to believe that this wasn't done with a little purpose thrown into the mix . All I can say guys is support your local shops cause when they go out of business hobby will die too.

Kinda seems messed up. My FLGS got pretty much pretty much all the new stuff except for the new pathfinders kit. Managed to pick up a codex, flyer, riptide, and a broadside on my midnight run there. Would have gotten more but my poor wallet is suffering from that expenditure

My local GW store got no tau at all. None.

I went to buy Codex from my FLGS (gotta read it so I can whine about it more), but they were all gone. Bleh.

My FLGS had plentiful new Tau. Multiples of each new box and multiples of the codex.

I assume Australia wasn't affected?

Indarys wrote:
Sorry, but after my "F"LGS decided to ban Death From The Skies because they were mad, I've been left with a 80 dollar SM Stormraven I can't use.

They don't get my business, they're just as bad as GW in screwing their own customers. I'll be buying from Amazon or GW Direct.

If I remember correctly, the Stormraven wasn't affected by Death from the Skies... It's in 2 legal codices... why can't you use it?

My FLGS only got in some of the new character/single sprue models and the codex, everything else was on back order. Which is a shame for him because all of my Malifaux players were drooling over it. And then they pulled out the codex. They still like it, but our Tau player doesn't like the changes. He said he'd get over it and would have to play with it.

 Alfndrate wrote:

Indarys wrote:
Sorry, but after my "F"LGS decided to ban Death From The Skies because they were mad, I've been left with a 80 dollar SM Stormraven I can't use.

They don't get my business, they're just as bad as GW in screwing their own customers. I'll be buying from Amazon or GW Direct.

If I remember correctly, the Stormraven wasn't affected by Death from the Skies... It's in 2 legal codices... why can't you use it?

Templars and Vanilla got access to it in DFTS.

 Alfndrate wrote:

If I remember correctly, the Stormraven wasn't affected by Death from the Skies... It's in 2 legal codices... why can't you use it?

I believe they updated the rules in Death from the Skies (and possibly in the digital products) to a different legal standard. It may not be significantly different but IIRC it is different according to the previous long thread about the book and it's release shenanigans.

 -Loki- wrote:
My FLGS had plentiful new Tau. Multiples of each new box and multiples of the codex.

I assume Australia wasn't affected?

Because our local price scared people off HAHA!

this is just more of GW trying to phase out the local store owners

 Backspacehacker wrote:
this is just more of GW trying to phase out the local store owners

Did you read the thread? Because both FLGS and GW stores were hit by the shortage.

1 small data point. Both of my regular stores, here in Las Vegas, got all the Tau they ordered. No GW stores in town, and we're a long way from GWUS HQ and shipping.

My eBay supplier contacted me.
I had ordered the Riptide, Pathfinders, and codex.
The codex is on its way.
He said his distributor will not have anything more for 3 weeks.