Being a robo-sapien, aka Necron, I will start with Necron tactics for beating down this new Tau MC.

Before the new Tau Codex came out, I already knew we Necrons may be in for a fight when I saw rumors of an 'uber suit'. I hoped that it would be a vehicle, like a Dreadnought or Maulerfiend, but since we had no such luck its time to suck it up and come up with a way to fight this new enemy.

The Necrons codex already has some difficulty with MCs and it only gets harder when said MC has a 2+ armor save.

Until now, that hasn't really been too hard to avoid because there aren't very many MCs that fit that profile -

- Tyrannofex: Not very popular with Tyranid players it seems
- Hive Tyrant: Can have a 2+ save, but I don' think I've ever seen anyone take a Hive Tyrant who didn't have wings, especially not in 6th Ed.
- Nemesis Dreadknight: a tough cookie, but his 5+ invuln meant that most rending hits would cause a wound, so Deathmarks and Wraiths with Whip Coils are a solid counter for this guy

Which brings us to our new foe, the XV104 Riptide. With his T6 5 Wounds 2+ armor and possible 3+ invulnerable save, he is now easily the hardest monstrous creature to crack. For shear durability, I think only a Greater Unclean One who has Iron Arm and re-rollable invulnerable is tougher.

So how do we kill this guy?

I did some dice rolling and was disappointed in the repeated results I saw.

I'll start with the ones I was pretty sure would fail.

Heavy Destroyers - that 3+ invulnerable kills these guys. They simply do not cause nearly enough damage to justify their cost and almost never survive the Riptides return fire.

Destroyer Lord - I actually thought this may be the answer, but it wasn't. Armed with Mindshackle, the Riptide still passes his Ld check about half the time, and usually puts a wound on the Destroyer Lord when he hits back and the Lord usually puts one on him with his Warscythe. This means that all the Destroyer Lord does is tie him up for about 4-5 Assault phases before he gets killed and the Riptide starts shooting at you again.

Scarab Swarms - These little guys actually did better than I thought, but still I don't think they are the answer. Most of the time, the scarabs would put a wound on him at some point, making his armor save -. The problem here is two fold. Firstly, the Riptide is instantly killing bases, so you are in a race against time to put a wound on him so afterwords he can be killed with shooting. Secondly, he still has the 3+ invulnerable, meaning he is never going to be without a decent save.

Lychguard - The Lychguard had by far the best results in CC usually killing it in 1 or 2 rounds of close combat, but I'm pretty sure they are never, ever going to make it to the Riptide before they get killed. Even getting their own Nightscythe to drop them right next to the Riptide, he can move 4d6 to get away, so even after paying 100 points for that Nightscythe gets you nothing.

There are a few other things I didn't try. Such as C'tan Shards which would surely beat him down in CC, but once again would never make it there. Or massed Tesla Destructor fire, which would take so much fire power to get passed that 2+ I really don't think its worth it.

Now for the real best chances we've got.

Deathmarks - I tried this about 7-8 times, each time assuming the Deathmarks get within rapid fire range before taking any damage themselves, which because of Deepstrike and Nightscythes is fairly easy to do. Now for the depressing part. On average, a 10 man squad of Deathmarks usually put 2 wounds on him, 2 wounds...... That's all. Sometimes they would put more, sometimes they would cause no wounds. After that, I really don't think Deathmarks are the answer.

Wraiths - When I did rolls for the Wraiths, I did it using different squad sizes. This fight is usually a total stalemate. A squad of 2 Wraiths would usually cause 0 wounds and take 0 in return, and thus stay in CC forever. A squad of 3 Wraiths was pretty much the same, maybe causing a wound here and there, but not enough to kill it. 4 Wraiths would usually kill it, but only after about 6-8 assault phases, that's 4 turns. After that I decided to just try it with max Wraith squad size, 6 Wraiths. A squad of 6 Wraiths would usually kill him in 2 rounds of CC and take 0 wounds in return. This is the first thing I think really came out as a good answer for the Riptide.

This last one took me by surprise, but had good results.

Necron Overlord on Catacomb Command Barge - With MSS, Phase Shifter and Warscythe, I was pleasantly surprised to see that an Overlord would usually kill the Riptide in about 4 rounds of CC. That Phase Shifter is what swings the fight decisively in the Overlords favor.

So there you have it.

Small squads of Wraiths if you are ok with just holding him down forever, big squads of Wraiths if you want to kill him. Or, Overlord on Catacomb Command Barge.

What is your plan to kill the XV104 Riptide?

Wraithguard + doom Unless he is eternal warrior? Possibly using null zone and a force weapon could do the trick as well.

First, he doesnt always have a 3++ save. He could actually end up failing that and taking a wound.

Dlord with some scarabs is usually the best way to kill tough MCs. Dlord can take the few wounds that the riptide can put out, the scarabs knock off the armor save, then eat it.

For the wraiths, did you factor in smash? Sure the riptide gets less attacks, but doing twice as effective attacks in return.

Generally the best way to deal with 2+ MCS in shooting is quantity of high str. With all the S7 shooting that Crons can get, you can put quite a few wounds on the riptide in a turn before the riptide can get assaulted .The S7 shooting is rarely going to have better targets as new tau is generally less about transports and more about vehicles being fire support.

Keep in mind the cost of the riptide. Its ~200 points. If he has more than one, hes spending a good portion of his army on them.


For eldar, harlequins still eat him with doom. It takes 1 full game turn to kill him in assault and he really does nothing to the harlequins in return, either in shooting or melee. Marker lights will be a problem, but those are first priority dead for my whole army.

Corsairs are going to have a problem with him, but between warp hunder's ID, Nightwings, misfortune, psychic shreak, and dropped fire dragon suicide squads i should be fine.

For IG.... ignore it for the most part. Who cares about S8 AP2 blasts when im sitting behind a line that gives 2+ cover to inf and 4+ to AV14 russes.

Did you factor in fnp to that math?

 spears wrote:
Did you factor in fnp to that math?

Wow, no I didn't. That makes it even worse.

@Zephoid

He pretty much is going to have that 3++ all the time. Nova-charge on Ion Accelerator is really not worth it. That Invulnerable is by far the best choice.

The Destroyer Lord loses, pull out some dice and see for yourself. Not having a invulnerable save kills him.

Yes, I did factor in Smash for the Wraiths, that 3++ on Wraiths is quite handy.

Well, how about this? The GKs Vinidicare Assassin has one type of shot that takes away an invulnerable save. For you necrons, take Gk as allies, use scarabs to take his armor away, and Vindicare for the invulnerable.

For CSM.

My best guess would be having Abaddon, Kharn, maybe typhus, or a defiler get him. Another idea that oculd work is a bunch of Khorne Berzerkers. A tarpit could be Cultists getting him tied up every turn with a unit of 5-10 cultists is a funny thought, because he can never shoot.

 Typhus the Betrayer wrote:
Well, how about this? The GKs Vinidicare Assassin has one type of shot that takes away an invulnerable save. For you necrons, take Gk as allies, use scarabs to take his armor away, and Vindicare for the invulnerable.

For CSM.

My best guess would be having Abaddon, Kharn, maybe typhus, or a defiler get him. Another idea that oculd work is a bunch of Khorne Berzerkers. A tarpit could be Cultists getting him tied up every turn with a unit of 5-10 cultists is a funny thought, because he can never shoot.

The Vindicares shield penetrator only removes a piece of wargear that grants an invulnerable save. The 3++ comes from Nova Reactor which is a special rule, not wargear...strangely enough.

 zephoid wrote:
First, he doesnt always have a 3++ save. He could actually end up failing that and taking a wound.

For IG.... ignore it for the most part. Who cares about S8 AP2 blasts when im sitting behind a line that gives 2+ cover to inf and 4+ to AV14 russes.

Yeah because the rest of the army does not have gear that removes cover....oh wait how about a commander with a drone controller and a 6 Drone markerlight hitting on 2+ and then that means at least 5 hit. 2 ML removes cover, and 3 ML to Improve the BS to 6. Oh look dead IG 75% of time.

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

 Typhus the Betrayer wrote:
Well, how about this? The GKs Vinidicare Assassin has one type of shot that takes away an invulnerable save. For you necrons, take Gk as allies, use scarabs to take his armor away, and Vindicare for the invulnerable.

For CSM.

My best guess would be having Abaddon, Kharn, maybe typhus, or a defiler get him. Another idea that oculd work is a bunch of Khorne Berzerkers. A tarpit could be Cultists getting him tied up every turn with a unit of 5-10 cultists is a funny thought, because he can never shoot.

The Vindicares shield penetrator only removes a piece of wargear that grants an invulnerable save. The 3++ comes from Nova Reactor which is a special rule, not wargear...strangely enough.

Oh, I didn't know that. I was thinking and thinking and I could have a solution. Rad grenades with GK take -1 T if you charge. This could be useful with a GK allies/ army. Have a chapter master or captain, idk it doesn't matter so much, give them a daemon hammer and put them in a terminator squad with all daemon hammers. This has 13 s8 attacks with AP2 and instant death if you activate the weapons. This most likely kills him in one turn. IDK his I or that, but my guess is it would work. If he has a higher initiative than I thought, then have a grand master with terminator squad with all of them having halberds for the initiative. For this, you have to pass the test for force weapons, or you could choose to have falchions for the pure amount of attacks on the charge and hope there is one left.

For the Math on those 3. I don't know the Riptides' stats, but here is the GK, assuming they charge each turn and pass their tests.

Grandmaster with rad grenades, 5 terminators, all have daemonhammers and force weapon test: 19 S8, AP2, ID, attacks at I 1, hitting against a T5 MC.

Grandmaster, 5 terminators, all with falchions and force weapon test: 31 S4, AP3, ID, attacks at I 5/4, hitting against a T6 MC.

Grandmaster, 5 terminators, all with halberds and force weapon test: 19 S5, AP2, ID, attacks hitting at I 3 (I think), against a T6 MC.

These all seem to work enough so that it dies easily, unless the damn suit has eternal warrior.

Honestly, you don't really *HAVE* to take it down. Just keep it stuck in combat and you've stopped it from participating in firing - good enough if you ask me. Otherwise, Necrons are going to have a tough time taking it down.

I don't have the Necron Codex to hand, so I can't look for any neat tricks, but I would think something in the Cryptek or C'Tan abilities might hold an answer. Outside of Necrons, one thing occurred to me almost straight away - it's vulnerable to Instant Death despite having T6. We're talking things like Force Weapons, wargear with the Instant Death ability... and so on. These only have to cause a single wound in order to down the thing, so even with a 3++ it's a valid tactic to try if you can pile enough attempts on the thing.

Grey Knights in particular are going to have a field day with it, along with properly kitted out Daemons.

 Typhus the Betrayer wrote:

For the Math on those 3. I don't know the Riptides' stats, but here is the GK, assuming they charge each turn and pass their tests.

Grandmaster with rad grenades, 5 terminators, all have daemonhammers and force weapon test: 19 S8, AP2, ID, attacks at I 1, hitting against a T5 MC.
Grandmaster, 5 terminators, all with falchions and force weapon test: 31 S4, AP3, ID, attacks at I 5/4, hitting against a T6 MC.
Grandmaster, 5 terminators, all with halberds and force weapon test: 19 S5, AP2, ID, attacks hitting at I 3 (I think), against a T6 MC.
These all seem to work enough so that it dies easily, unless the damn suit has eternal warrior.

Nem. Halberd is S4 AP3 +2 init, so you're swinging on init 6.

My plan is staff of warding. S4 AP3, 2+ invul in combat. Then a daemon hammer or two in the unit.

-Matt

thejughead wrote:
First, he doesnt always have a 3++ save. He could actually end up failing that and taking a wound.

Yeah because the rest of the army does not have gear that removes cover....oh wait how about a commander with a drone controller and a 6 Drone markerlight hitting on 2+ and then that means at least 5 hit. 2 ML removes cover, and 3 ML to Improve the BS to 6. Oh look dead IG 75% of time.

Congrats, you now spent ~400 points to kill a guardsman squad. And while the riptide is strong, the commander isnt. Pretty much the obvious tactic vs tau at this point is shoot the markerlights. They are mostly on things that arent particularly hard to get rid of. Between some thudd guns and some heavy artillery, i will have no problem at all killing that commander, even if he tries to get out of sight. Guard outshoots tau any day of the week.

Isnt the inv off the reactor? If so, it still has that chance to activate every turn. If it fails, throw everything at it while its inv is lower and its already taken a wound.


I didnt look, but is the riptide a character? Seems silly if he is, but that hasnt ever stopped gw.

Enfeeble. Enfeeble and anything S10, unless I am lucky enough to get a few Enfeebles, then the Hive Guard can have fun with it. JSJ means nothing to them, heh. This hinges on proper rolls, though, so I might just have to punch it a lot. Poison will be handy for this one.

Poison gargoyles might be my answer, but only trying it out will tell. I usually try overloading the tau with bodies, and it has been a viable tactic so far... not sure if this will change. Flamersuits have been problematic.

The entire codex is built with ML multipliers. implying that point for point comparison is they way to judge its effectiveness is not really grasping the concept of Tau tactics.

For Wolves, TWC and/or a decently tooled-up Lord look like the way to go. A Lone Wolf can probably kill or severely hurt it as well.

For Guard... shot it. AP2 preferably.

For Nids, assault it with your MCs or Genestealers.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
For Wolves, TWC and/or a decently tooled-up Lord look like the way to go. A Lone Wolf can probably kill or severely hurt it as well.

For Guard... shot it. AP2 preferably.

For Nids, assault it with your MCs or Genestealers.

Or you could do it the easy way and just jaws his ass lol. Tau are not known for their speed.

More importantly though the OP was asking for necron advice, or implied it anyway. I don't think any thing imperial has an issue killing that thing.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
For Wolves, TWC and/or a decently tooled-up Lord look like the way to go. A Lone Wolf can probably kill or severely hurt it as well.

For Guard... shot it. AP2 preferably.

For Nids, assault it with your MCs or Genestealers.

Or you could do it the easy way and just jaws his ass lol. Tau are not known for their speed.

More importantly though the OP was asking for necron advice, or implied it anyway. I don't think any thing imperial has an issue killing that thing.

No no, I was just wondering what anyone is planning to do, regardless of army.

@SBG, what I wouldn't give for some Enfeeble. Hit him with it just once, and then splat him with a Doomscythe. If only it where that easy.

My heavy bolter Retributor squad would have a good time with one. Or failing that, an Exorcist barrage or two should do the trick.

Tie him up with Ogryns! But that means you would have to take them in the first place...

Dark Eldar laugh at Tau, an Archon with his court and a husk blade will kill him on the charge

i dnt play crons but my friend does, and every time he faces GK his has his Destroyer Lord own the GK player's DKs via mindshackles. Ive never seen that fail since its a 3D6 leadership test, and it completely negates the model and usually kills itself.

Yes, if it fails then whoops sorry destroyer lord is dead. The odds of it failing are even less than him wiffing enough 2+ saves from random infantry using Gauss or Tesla trying to get lucky.

Jaws of the World Wolf, meet initiative two.

As an Eldar player, my pathfinders will shoot at nothing else until it's down.

Also, the typical Eldar approach. Fire Dragons. Fire Dragons solve all.

I think taking it down is going to be a lot harder than people actually think. With jsj it will be very hard to catch him for an assault and with a 72'' gun he can jump across the board and still fire just fine. How often have you guys caught crisis suits in close combat? One unit alone will not outrun him.

For shooting, he out ranges most guns. Threats to him will be high priority targets because once those are gone he can go around smashing face. Also you can take more than one.

Shoot it with my riptides first I guess.

Still waiting on my dex

Does the Riptide move like normal Infantry or does he have jetpacks or something? If its just 6inch move than any biker force could easily catch it even with its jsj

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Still waiting on my dex

Does the Riptide move like normal Infantry or does he have jetpacks or something? If its just 6inch move than any biker force could easily catch it even with its jsj

Riptides are Jet Pack MCs.

Plan 1: DP --> JotWW

Plan 2: Plasma

Plan 3: Vendettas

Plan 4: Tarpit

Jetpack? K that could be hard to catch even for my bikernobz lol (which isnt the optimum group for MC killing anyway cuz of Smash attacks)

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
For Wolves, TWC and/or a decently tooled-up Lord look like the way to go. A Lone Wolf can probably kill or severely hurt it as well.

For Guard... shot it. AP2 preferably.

For Nids, assault it with your MCs or Genestealers.

Or you could do it the easy way and just jaws his ass lol. Tau are not known for their speed.

More importantly though the OP was asking for necron advice, or implied it anyway. I don't think any thing imperial has an issue killing that thing.

No no, I was just wondering what anyone is planning to do, regardless of army.

@SBG, what I wouldn't give for some Enfeeble. Hit him with it just once, and then splat him with a Doomscythe. If only it where that easy.

Yeah, enfeeble is amazing. Now I know it will work well once, but then getting into range after they realize what it does will be hard. My psykers are likely going to be high priority targets... and that jsj is really going to be difficult to work around. Swarms of gaunts might help limit movement, however.

Venoms! Always Venoms!

Then he is as hard to kill as 5 termies. I've never had trouble killing 5 termies with mass fire. Or maybe i can get at him with my Huskblade Archon and Instant Death him, and get a str 6 Archon

I haven't bothered to read through all of these but from what I went through I didn't see it.

Grey Knights Librarian : Warp Rift. Initiative 2?... test please,... removed from play. GG

Transdimensional beamer, maybe? Or a tes lab? Those are risky, but they may do the trick.

Zoanthropes in a Spore with 3x Psychic screach. Not sure what the leadership is on it but could force a lot of invuns.

Most of this thread is just implying you'll ever get the chance to charge a Riptide.

Well Librarian in a Storm Raven casting shrouding for a 2+ cover when it comes in, or in a Landraider popping smoke and shrouding. Not to mention the termies or whatever is accompanying him and their force weapons as mentioned earlier. I'd probably want to take it with Purifiers for the extra attacks.

Its all speculative though, I don't know what the opponent would do to try and counter it. Anyway, by discussing ways to take it down we're giving these Tau guys ideas of what to expect!

FuzzyLogik wrote:
Well Librarian in a Storm Raven casting shrouding for a 2+ cover when it comes in, or in a Landraider popping smoke and shrouding. Not to mention the termies or whatever is accompanying him and their force weapons as mentioned earlier. I'd probably want to take it with Purifiers for the extra attacks.

Its all speculative though, I don't know what the opponent would do to try and counter it. Anyway, by discussing ways to take it down we're giving these Tau guys ideas of what to expect!

Is shrouding cast in the shooting or movement phase? If your libby just came in from reserves then he can't cast anything done at the beginning of the movement phase.

Your landraider will probably have its cover stripped by the myriad of markerlights. Don't rely on cover against Tau.

You generally take on the riptide like any other MC. You use massed poison shots and hard melee units to kill it or you use large fearless blobby squads to tie it up.

 gpfunk wrote:

FuzzyLogik wrote:
Well Librarian in a Storm Raven casting shrouding for a 2+ cover when it comes in, or in a Landraider popping smoke and shrouding. Not to mention the termies or whatever is accompanying him and their force weapons as mentioned earlier. I'd probably want to take it with Purifiers for the extra attacks.

Its all speculative though, I don't know what the opponent would do to try and counter it. Anyway, by discussing ways to take it down we're giving these Tau guys ideas of what to expect!

Is shrouding cast in the shooting or movement phase? If your libby just came in from reserves then he can't cast anything done at the beginning of the movement phase.

Your landraider will probably have its cover stripped by the myriad of markerlights. Don't rely on cover against Tau.

You generally take on the riptide like any other MC. You use massed poison shots and hard melee units to kill it or you use large fearless blobby squads to tie it up.

Shrouding is used in your opponents shooting phase.

When you plan to assault a riptide, I advise you plan for the massed support fire of his entire army as well. Assaulting the tau is not as easy as it used to be.

cryhavok wrote:
When you plan to assault a riptide, I advise you plan for the massed support fire of his entire army as well. Assaulting the tau is not as easy as it used to be.

That's just the thing. Nothing in the Tau codex really worries me like the Riptide does. Due to Nightscythes and Veilteks, I'm not worried about getting close enough to rapid fire pretty much everything else the Tau have straight into oblivions sweet embrace. So, with some average rolling, I should have killed anything else that's nearby, but then again, s*** happens.

Tessaract Labyrinth
Vortex grenade (apoc)
Wraiths
Monolith's Gate of Infinity

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

cryhavok wrote:
When you plan to assault a riptide, I advise you plan for the massed support fire of his entire army as well. Assaulting the tau is not as easy as it used to be.

That's just the thing. Nothing in the Tau codex really worries me like the Riptide does. Due to Nightscythes and Veilteks, I'm not worried about getting close enough to rapid fire pretty much everything else the Tau have straight into oblivions sweet embrace. So, with some average rolling, I should have killed anything else that's nearby, but then again, s*** happens.

Maybe it is just me, but it seems like planning for all other threats to be killed of is a silly way of planning your tactics. I apologize if Im reading it wrong, but it seems like your plan is for the tau to lay down and die without fighting back(okay I might be exaggerating a little). But with thier new codex, they are far too much of an integrated force to be able to fight them that way. They are a very mobile army, even thier firewarriors if an ethereal is around. You can't assume any fight will be x vs y with them. Especially if, god forbid, the other units in support fire range are two more riptides (something I plan on doing). Shooting them to death will likely be far, far more viable than assaulting them.

hmmmm would a black knight squad be an option? because rad grenades and plasma can take it down like a sack of rocks I think.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Jaws of the World Wolf, meet initiative two.

Weapon with a 60" range, meet Jaws.

Using Dark Eldar;

Ravagers - Disintegrator Cannons
Raiders - Splinter Racks + Full Kabalites
Scourges - Standard Shardcarbines


Using Eldar;

3x War Walkers - Scatter Lasers + Guide / Prescience (well that's pretty much Eldar's answer to most stuff, for every awesome unit they have they have 2 dust collecters)

The Dark Angels answer:

6x Ravenwing Black Knights w/ 5x Plasma, Talons 1x Grenade launcher
Mastery Level 2 Librarian on bike.

Rad grenade from the black knights plus reroll saves divination power would be how I would attack that beast. So it's got JSJ? I don't care. Heck I don't care if I do kill it in a charge. If anything I would use it to keep my Knights out of fire during his turn then Hit and Run out to shoot again.

Hitting on 3+ rerolling, wounding on 2+ ignoring his his armor save and forcing him to reroll his successful invul saves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Throw in Prescience for rerolls on the charge if I decide to do so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rending is still very nice.

Are Jump Infantry (Jet Pack) immune to JotWW?

No, they're not.

Black Knights are good MC hunters, but you're forgetting it has a 2+ 3++ and your Knights don't get a save against its attacks, so you'll be losing a bike each phase.

Not to mention the BS2 Overwatch from its supporting units- and the Stealth/Shrouded from invis can be removed by Markerlights. The best chance is for the Librarian to hit it. Where are you getting re-roll invulnerable saves from? Allied Null Zone SM Librarian?

 McNinja wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Jaws of the World Wolf, meet initiative two.

Weapon with a 60" range, meet Jaws.

Priest in a drop pod 1st turn...there's your Jaws

 skycapt44 wrote:

 McNinja wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Jaws of the World Wolf, meet initiative two.

Weapon with a 60" range, meet Jaws.

Priest in a drop pod 1st turn...there's your Jaws

massed Interceptor from every suit on the table might cause problems with your drop pods.

Black knights sound like the best option. With deamons, I was thinking instakilling plague drones myself. Grimoire them before they head in. Grimoired seekers might do the job too.

I wonder how a dread knight would fare in a matchup against one.

 McNinja wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Jaws of the World Wolf, meet initiative two.

Weapon with a 60" range, meet Jaws.

I guess you never have seen a 35pt drop pod used before


Automatically Appended Next Post:

cryhavok wrote:

 skycapt44 wrote:

 McNinja wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Jaws of the World Wolf, meet initiative two.

Weapon with a 60" range, meet Jaws.

Priest in a drop pod 1st turn...there's your Jaws

massed Interceptor from every suit on the table might cause problems with your drop pods.

Black knights sound like the best option. With deamons, I was thinking instakilling plague drones myself. Grimoire them before they head in. Grimoired seekers might do the job too.

I wonder how a dread knight would fare in a matchup against one.

Lol this is rapidly becoming a school ground show down of whos dad is biggest and strongest. I still think DP armies hard counter the tau, they can't deal with that much pressure turn one I mean I run 2 priests at 1500, now I am considering 3. If I pod in and jaws that many times I can wipe half your army out with 3 models. interceptor sounds great until you remember you have bs3 so key marker lights need to hit that turn and if they are attached to suits with interceptor then good for you you can have the pod lol, next turn your shooting will suffer greatly.

Not to change the game, but my Riptide isn't going anywhere without a friend. Say hello to the tag team of Rip Tide and Lysander!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

cryhavok wrote:. I wonder how a dread knight would fare in a matchup against one.

The Riptide would get 1 maybe 2 rounds of shooting off against the Dreadknight before the DK forced him into close combat then the DK could just force weapon him. No contest.

valace2 wrote:
Not to change the game, but my Riptide isn't going anywhere without a friend. Say hello to the tag team of Rip Tide and Lysander!


[.

Hes a MC so you can't join him. Though the drones make this a bit beardy I'd still say no but I am sure it will blow out now ha ha.

 skycapt44 wrote:

 McNinja wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Jaws of the World Wolf, meet initiative two.

Weapon with a 60" range, meet Jaws.

Priest in a drop pod 1st turn...there's your Jaws

Tau are battle brothers with eldar.... Unless I remember incorrectly they have some of the best anti-psychic in the game.

 Red Corsair wrote:

valace2 wrote:
Not to change the game, but my Riptide isn't going anywhere without a friend. Say hello to the tag team of Rip Tide and Lysander!


[.

Hes a MC so you can't join him. Though the drones make this a bit beardy I'd still say no but I am sure it will blow out now ha ha.

LOL Once he buys those drones he is a unit lol and as such ICs can join the unit hehe.

Think of it this way, the Grey Knight Mordrak in not an IC but once he buys his ghost knights he is considered a unit and can be joined by ICs. Kind of the same thing going on with the Riptide.

Why would you put Lysander with him? To twiddle his thumbs waiting for someone to assault him?

Baring outside (allied) interference, and assuming that the tau could not deal with them before they get it off, yes jotww would indeed make them cry. I think you are underestimating thier ability to deal with a drop pod assault though. Also my tau have a farseer running around with them, can't speak for anyone elses.

cryhavok wrote:
Baring outside (allied) interference, and assuming that the tau could not deal with them before they get it off, yes jotww would indeed make them cry. I think you are underestimating thier ability to deal with a drop pod assault though. Also my tau have a farseer running around with them, can't speak for anyone elses.

Well to start, I consider the tau codex as codex: Tau allies as they are now the village bicycle to 40k armies IMO. So generally yes I agree they will have allies but I think the most common will end up being marines as the ability for the new tau characters to dole out USR in seeming broken ways is just being touched on and I think some silly combinations are going to arise. Also note that tau still have a weakness in regards to their troops, not at holding home court but at taking away distant objectives, I think space marines fill this roll best.

In regards to drop pods, as tau I would be more afraid of the actual marines then the psychers, pods of stern guard or wolf guard will really hurt turn one unless you castle up and bubble wrap really well. This of course causes issues of its own in objective missions, in any case I am excited to see what blossoms from this release as it really is going to shake up 40k. I am just dreading seeing the ubiquitous tau allied detachments that I fear are going to arise.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Why would you put Lysander with him? To twiddle his thumbs waiting for someone to assault him?

The question is why in the heck wouldn't you? Stupid fun for everyone, and while we are at it we can add in Farsight and Shadowsun!!!!!!

Now the whole mess gets to infiltrate to bwahahahahaha.

Eldar laugh at the riptide for our WW with guided SL just dakka you to oblivion. If that doesn't work then pathfinders will take out the last crawling riptide. Still not working? Deeptrike those spiders for more str 6 shots! Still not dead? Well if we got the quad gun and fire drags behind it w/ exarch (all the fixins) then it should surely die! still alive? Dear god man your dice is loaded!

Lol, Riptide is 72" away and none of those things you shot can reach him.

I never knew a table was 72" long.....Lets just assume that in the 1/3 chance it is long ways and on a 6x4 table, that the pathfinders don't infiltrate, walkers move and the quad gun is in the back field...we still got warp spiders that can at least bring it down a peg or two and then jump into cover.

72" range doesnt mean the model is always 72" away... its 48" - base diameter at most 95% of the time... get over it

my lemen russes have 72" range, yet peopl ehave no problem engaging them with lascannons,

tactics man... if that riptide is 72" away from me, I win, its not anywhere near an opbjective if its sitting the back corner, and in any deployment other then the short table edges, its only 48" away

the rip tide is powerful, but very easy to deal with if you have a TAC army that has dealth with a t6 2+ monstrous creature before

same strategies that work against nids, GK dreadknights, demon princes ect.. will all work on rip tides.

I also forget that if the riptide comes into wraithcannon or d-cannon range and we get an unsaved 6 then riptide goes....bye bye.

I think the thing that makes the Riptide super tough is not its defensive stats (which are really good, especially with FNP), it's that it's a shoot-first unit. It comes with close to the heaviest firepower in a Codex of firepower units. Most every other MC spends a few turns getting into position, then goes for a close combat payoff, the trick is to tarpit them or intercept them. The Riptide just hangs out, meting out the pain from Turn 1. You have to chase it down with assault units, and get those assault units through one of the better anti-infantry armies in the game. If you finally catch this thing, with it moving and firing the whole time, it won't be before it's had a chance to kill a bunch of units itself, so it ends up being a bit of a hollow victory. There's a few hard counters (Jaws), but I think anyone who deals with it like a "normal" MC will get badly stomped. The more I think about it, the more I think it's probably the most reliable Big Gun in the game, thanks to tank-like long-range heavy weapons, jet-pack mobility, near small-arms immunity, and more resistance to AT weapons than anything in its weight class.

Here's the foundation for the new Tau: HQ suits with bodyguard units of Crisis suits, 3 Riptides, Fire Warriors/Kroot units on foot, Missilesides with Missile Drones, and an Aegis Defence Line with Quad Gun. Extra points to whatever you want to specialise your army towards. They're going to give a game to anyone whether the opponent has units that can attempt to deal with the Riptides or not.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
No, they're not.

Black Knights are good MC hunters, but you're forgetting it has a 2+ 3++ and your Knights don't get a save against its attacks, so you'll be losing a bike each phase.

Not to mention the BS2 Overwatch from its supporting units- and the Stealth/Shrouded from invis can be removed by Markerlights. The best chance is for the Librarian to hit it. Where are you getting re-roll invulnerable saves from? Allied Null Zone SM Librarian?

IIRC (I don't have the BRB at work) there is a divination malediction that forces rerolls of all saves. There is also a blessing IIRC that gives the whole unit a 4++ invul save. Granted these tactics all rely on luck on the Divination power table. If I was really worried about making armor saves you can put a techmarine on a bike with a powerfield generator with the rest of the squad and call it a day (not a bad little deathstar there, may have to give it a try).

But I was just going on how to handle the Riptide not the whole Tau army.

As for marker lights, well, I'd have some higher priority targets on the table to worry about as well as the black knights. Deathwing on your doorstep for one. Two TL heavy flamers are a beast against Tau infantry.

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

cryhavok wrote:
When you plan to assault a riptide, I advise you plan for the massed support fire of his entire army as well. Assaulting the tau is not as easy as it used to be.

That's just the thing. Nothing in the Tau codex really worries me like the Riptide does. Due to Nightscythes and Veilteks, I'm not worried about getting close enough to rapid fire pretty much everything else the Tau have straight into oblivions sweet embrace. So, with some average rolling, I should have killed anything else that's nearby, but then again, s*** happens.

yeah well you should be, the suit bomb with mr no scatter is going to hit hard also and he can have both, dont worry tau will be hard as nails in a skilled generals hands...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
the othe thing is that the riptide isn't alone, you will not be able to force your whole army against him while ignoring the rest. But tbh those lone-counter droppods will be blown out of the sky by most Tau lists.

However i would consider a Riptide as ally in my cron armie, muhaha, shackle those young tau puppies and use them...

easysauce wrote:
72" range doesnt mean the model is always 72" away... its 48" - base diameter at most 95% of the time... get over it

my lemen russes have 72" range, yet peopl ehave no problem engaging them with lascannons,

my basilisk has 160" range and gets killed on turn one more often than not.

 Red Corsair wrote:

cryhavok wrote:
Baring outside (allied) interference, and assuming that the tau could not deal with them before they get it off, yes jotww would indeed make them cry. I think you are underestimating thier ability to deal with a drop pod assault though. Also my tau have a farseer running around with them, can't speak for anyone elses.

Well to start, I consider the tau codex as codex: Tau allies as they are now the village bicycle to 40k armies IMO. So generally yes I agree they will have allies but I think the most common will end up being marines as the ability for the new tau characters to dole out USR in seeming broken ways is just being touched on and I think some silly combinations are going to arise. Also note that tau still have a weakness in regards to their troops, not at holding home court but at taking away distant objectives, I think space marines fill this roll best.

In regards to drop pods, as tau I would be more afraid of the actual marines then the psychers, pods of stern guard or wolf guard will really hurt turn one unless you castle up and bubble wrap really well. This of course causes issues of its own in objective missions, in any case I am excited to see what blossoms from this release as it really is going to shake up 40k. I am just dreading seeing the ubiquitous tau allied detachments that I fear are going to arise.

Indeed I am looking forward to playtesting all this theory crafting. I'll keep your advice in mind when I do. I'll never claim to be the most experienced player, so you could very well prove correct. I have about six lists that I'm in the process of testing out, and I haven't gotten to the riptide lists yet. Coming from chaos deamons I am wary of fielding too many points into MC, they are rarely as durable as thier hype suggests, and need a good list capitolizing on what they do.

 Exergy wrote:

easysauce wrote:
72" range doesnt mean the model is always 72" away... its 48" - base diameter at most 95% of the time... get over it

my lemen russes have 72" range, yet peopl ehave no problem engaging them with lascannons,

my basilisk has 160" range and gets killed on turn one more often than not.

yes so do mine, very good point! range isnt everything!

riptides are part of the changing meta in 6th,

If you are not mobile or long ranged enough to engage something far away, your army is not really TAC to begin with

while they are a strong unit, they will take wounds to nova generator, and will die to any real CC unit or your standard anti tank/terminator ranged weapons.

ranged, and flyers were very strong up till now, still will be but just not in such a lopsided way with so many things stuck with previous edition rules.

we now get more AA, and there will be a shift a bit as mobility becomes more important, and CC get a bit more useful again

I like the people talking about drop pods as an answer because Tau players never learned how to bubblewrap our strategic assets... The riptide starts the game on the table edge, behind 3 units of firewarriors (with supporting fire) who are behind an ADL. Everybody mentioned supported by Aun Va and a fireblade or two thrown in and hammerheads on the flanks to take out opposing armor.

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

 Typhus the Betrayer wrote:
Well, how about this? The GKs Vinidicare Assassin has one type of shot that takes away an invulnerable save. For you necrons, take Gk as allies, use scarabs to take his armor away, and Vindicare for the invulnerable.

For CSM.

My best guess would be having Abaddon, Kharn, maybe typhus, or a defiler get him. Another idea that oculd work is a bunch of Khorne Berzerkers. A tarpit could be Cultists getting him tied up every turn with a unit of 5-10 cultists is a funny thought, because he can never shoot.

The Vindicares shield penetrator only removes a piece of wargear that grants an invulnerable save. The 3++ comes from Nova Reactor which is a special rule, not wargear...strangely enough.

The Novacharged Ion Accelerator is a Str: 9 AP 2 Large Blase that can have interceptor on it. It will always be worth it, especially in an army that lost a good chuck of it's 9+ Str shooting. Secondly the Invulnerable save actually does come from a piece of wargear. The Riptide Shield Generator. It's normally a 5+, but the Nova Reactor turns it into a 3+. However it is still the same piece of wargear, and if it can't use the 5+ it can't get the 3+.

I think your best tactic is double-tap plasma... but the trick is getting enough of it on a super-fast death machine before your guys are dead.

Deepstrike plasma-cide Chaos Terminators?
Deepstrike plasma raptors?
Autocannon spam (ugh, this is a terrible idea)?
What does a pask-punisher boat put out on this thing?

Enfeeble/shoot also seems very viable.

The Riptide is a shooting unit through and through. It's really weak in close combat. WS2, I2, and 3 attacks? He gets to hit almost everyone on 4's, many on 5's, and with only 3 attacks, he will probably only do one wound. If he gets in with a unit of TH/SS terminators, he is going down real fast. All he needs to do is lose by one wound (not that hard, since he won't be doing any), fail his Ld 9 (which is going to be at most 8), and then get swept. And I just remembered that terminators can't sweep, but many other similar units can. The point still stands.

Even worse, he will be tarpitted by anything. Anything. 5 tactical marines? He will only kill 1 a turn. Guardsmen? Oh great he splatted 2. Anything with an invulnerable save? My point is he's a push over in combat.

If the riptide is supposed to be a meat shield for tau to keep the rest of the gun line out of CC then wouldn't chasing it further away from the other units its supposed to be protecting be an effective tactic? So just deepstriking next to it and letting it fall back for a turn while you go and chew up something else would be a good strategy.

 agnosto wrote:
I like the people talking about drop pods as an answer because Tau players never learned how to bubblewrap our strategic assets... The riptide starts the game on the table edge, behind 3 units of firewarriors (with supporting fire) who are behind an ADL. Everybody mentioned supported by Aun Va and a fireblade or two thrown in and hammerheads on the flanks to take out opposing armor.

Yes and this doesn't gain you any objectives does it. Tau are still very much a slow army and DP armies can easily get first blood and line breaker from you cramping up in one corner. I personally think DP armies are one of the best builds in 6th because they can really dominate in objective games by making your opponent bubble wrap himself into immobility.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PraetorDave wrote:
The Riptide is a shooting unit through and through. It's really weak in close combat. WS2, I2, and 3 attacks? He gets to hit almost everyone on 4's, many on 5's, and with only 3 attacks, he will probably only do one wound. If he gets in with a unit of TH/SS terminators, he is going down real fast. All he needs to do is lose by one wound (not that hard, since he won't be doing any), fail his Ld 9 (which is going to be at most 8), and then get swept. And I just remembered that terminators can't sweep, but many other similar units can. The point still stands.

Even worse, he will be tarpitted by anything. Anything. 5 tactical marines? He will only kill 1 a turn. Guardsmen? Oh great he splatted 2. Anything with an invulnerable save? My point is he's a push over in combat.

This was more my point with DP armies, they focus on bubble wrapping the RT with precious troops and I will just ruin all the troops turn one lol. I think he will work best on the flanks where he can draw units away from your troops and add fire from range that is hard to ignore.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
I like the people talking about drop pods as an answer because Tau players never learned how to bubblewrap our strategic assets... The riptide starts the game on the table edge, behind 3 units of firewarriors (with supporting fire) who are behind an ADL. Everybody mentioned supported by Aun Va and a fireblade or two thrown in and hammerheads on the flanks to take out opposing armor.

Yes and this doesn't gain you any objectives does it. Tau are still very much a slow army and DP armies can easily get first blood and line breaker from you cramping up in one corner. I personally think DP armies are one of the best builds in 6th because they can really dominate in objective games by making your opponent bubble wrap himself into immobility.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PraetorDave wrote:
The Riptide is a shooting unit through and through. It's really weak in close combat. WS2, I2, and 3 attacks? He gets to hit almost everyone on 4's, many on 5's, and with only 3 attacks, he will probably only do one wound. If he gets in with a unit of TH/SS terminators, he is going down real fast. All he needs to do is lose by one wound (not that hard, since he won't be doing any), fail his Ld 9 (which is going to be at most 8), and then get swept. And I just remembered that terminators can't sweep, but many other similar units can. The point still stands.

Even worse, he will be tarpitted by anything. Anything. 5 tactical marines? He will only kill 1 a turn. Guardsmen? Oh great he splatted 2. Anything with an invulnerable save? My point is he's a push over in combat.

This was more my point with DP armies, they focus on bubble wrapping the RT with precious troops and I will just ruin all the troops turn one lol. I think he will work best on the flanks where he can draw units away from your troops and add fire from range that is hard to ignore.

Funny thing about kroot....cheap, troops that can hold objectives and can pop up in interesting places. You do have a point; the new edition will require me to reexamine my strategies with the army.

I actually love the new kroot. The krootox is basically an auto canon with the new rapid fire rules so infiltrating them will get you 3 cheap auto canons that can hit side armor and hurt MC for dirt cheap. I think they will still be key if playing a pure tau army but with allies not so much.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I actually love the new kroot. The krootox is basically an auto canon with the new rapid fire rules so infiltrating them will get you 3 cheap auto canons that can hit side armor and hurt MC for dirt cheap. I think they will still be key if playing a pure tau army but with allies not so much.

Let's not derail this thread, but kroot are horrible. For 2 more points, you can have a 4+ save, a great gun, and the supporting fire rule. Krootox are decent, but having the 60 points of ablative wounds really isn't worth it.

Well, after reading through 3 pages, I think I know the best answers.

Anything like warp rift, jotww, or test that removes. However the CSM's black mace wouldn't work because he's T6.

Vinidcare assassin taking out his invulnerable save.

Force weapons that are ap 2 such as GK termies with hammers or falchions for number of attacks.

Tarpit.

Drop pod his sorry ass.

 TheMind wrote:

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

 Typhus the Betrayer wrote:
Well, how about this? The GKs Vinidicare Assassin has one type of shot that takes away an invulnerable save. For you necrons, take Gk as allies, use scarabs to take his armor away, and Vindicare for the invulnerable.

For CSM.

My best guess would be having Abaddon, Kharn, maybe typhus, or a defiler get him. Another idea that oculd work is a bunch of Khorne Berzerkers. A tarpit could be Cultists getting him tied up every turn with a unit of 5-10 cultists is a funny thought, because he can never shoot.

The Vindicares shield penetrator only removes a piece of wargear that grants an invulnerable save. The 3++ comes from Nova Reactor which is a special rule, not wargear...strangely enough.

The Novacharged Ion Accelerator is a Str: 9 AP 2 Large Blase that can have interceptor on it. It will always be worth it, especially in an army that lost a good chuck of it's 9+ Str shooting. Secondly the Invulnerable save actually does come from a piece of wargear. The Riptide Shield Generator. It's normally a 5+, but the Nova Reactor turns it into a 3+. However it is still the same piece of wargear, and if it can't use the 5+ it can't get the 3+.

Where does it say that the Nova Reactor's 3++ comes from the Riptide Shield Generator?

 TheMind wrote:

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

 Typhus the Betrayer wrote:
Well, how about this? The GKs Vinidicare Assassin has one type of shot that takes away an invulnerable save. For you necrons, take Gk as allies, use scarabs to take his armor away, and Vindicare for the invulnerable.

For CSM.

My best guess would be having Abaddon, Kharn, maybe typhus, or a defiler get him. Another idea that oculd work is a bunch of Khorne Berzerkers. A tarpit could be Cultists getting him tied up every turn with a unit of 5-10 cultists is a funny thought, because he can never shoot.

The Vindicares shield penetrator only removes a piece of wargear that grants an invulnerable save. The 3++ comes from Nova Reactor which is a special rule, not wargear...strangely enough.

The Novacharged Ion Accelerator is a Str: 9 AP 2 Large Blase that can have interceptor on it. It will always be worth it, especially in an army that lost a good chuck of it's 9+ Str shooting. Secondly the Invulnerable save actually does come from a piece of wargear. The Riptide Shield Generator. It's normally a 5+, but the Nova Reactor turns it into a 3+. However it is still the same piece of wargear, and if it can't use the 5+ it can't get the 3+.

Re-read this myself, and your wrong. The Nova Reactor gives him the Nova Shield which grants the 3++. It's totally separate from the Riptide Shield Generator which gives it it's 5++.

Yeah, it would be nice to take a dirt cheap Grey Knights allied detachment just for the Vindicare and take away his shield, but not that easy I guess.

 Typhus the Betrayer wrote:
However the CSM's black mace wouldn't work because he's T6.

It could still work. 5 + D6 Attacks with Fleshbane should be enough to take down the Riptide in one attack. Just hope the Daemon survives when the Riptide decides to smash and Instant-Kill it.

Chaos Deamon Prine, mon, balesword.

With my slaanesh daemons if I ever face it (likely as I have at least 2 tau players in the club I go to) I'll just send a squad of daemonettes and a herald with witstealer and beguilement

bunch of rending attacks + re-rolls to hit + failed Ini test upon wounding means another wound = hopefully he's hurt.

And if fiends = I 0 works, then good tactic so he can't hit you back.


Not reliable, but safer, and can easily tie him up.

Is he fearless? if not then he can (even if it is a small chance) fail his fear test and become WS1... but anyway.

Tessaract Labrinyth?

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:
Yeah, it would be nice to take a dirt cheap Grey Knights allied detachment just for the Vindicare and take away his shield, but not that easy I guess.

Coteaz, 3x Warrior Acolytes with nothing, Vindicare - 269pts

Inquisitor, 5 man Strike Squad with nothing, Vindicare - 270pts

After reading this I'm not seeing a very strong TAC list for guard if you don't use artillery platforms (ie the toughness based ones). The one battle against tau even with lots of flyers cost me dearly.

Tesla Destructors. Personally, I use 6 of them in my Necron list, so it should be dead in about two turns.

Funny enough, the Riptide is useless against my Necron army because there's not much for him to shoot at. So option B is to just ignore it.

Not much for it to shoot at? Either you run one weird off the wall necron army that still works, or the tau player doesnt know what he/she is doing.

The cron players near me are going to hate it when i fiend this thing because their doom arks and command barges are going to melt.

Lou_Cypher wrote:

 Typhus the Betrayer wrote:
However the CSM's black mace wouldn't work because he's T6.

It could still work. 5 + D6 Attacks with Fleshbane should be enough to take down the Riptide in one attack. Just hope the Daemon survives when the Riptide decides to smash and Instant-Kill it.

would be better to run the murder sword. Str8 or 10 ap2 ID will make short work of him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Honestly from the sounds of it the new Riptide sounds very tough to kill at range. Still difficult to kill in combat.

The shooting is nasty, but so is the shooting from a lot of Tau stuff. I think it is probably better to tarpit if possible and if not kill the easier crisis suits first. Their firepower to survivability is greater.

If you see a time of opportunity when its sheild is only 5++ you can blast it and try to kill it. If it has the 3++ up you will want to dakka it with AP- weapons.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Not much for it to shoot at? Either you run one weird off the wall necron army that still works, or the tau player doesnt know what he/she is doing.

The cron players near me are going to hate it when i fiend this thing because their doom arks and command barges are going to melt.

3 Anni Barges, DLord and Wraiths, Cultists behind an Aegis, Daemon Prince with wings are all I have on the board on Turn 1. (3 Scythes full of troops and a Heldrake in reserve).

Either the Riptide overcharges and Tries to break AV13, or pie plates the Wraiths with their 3++, or pie plates the cultists (which generally won't happen since they always sit behind something that blocks LOS). Prince is always out of LOS, and flies forward.

The cultists are probably the best choice if he can markerlight them, but none of them are spectacular for him to shoot at.

I am looking at my Dark Eldar and I see a pretty average unit that can bring some pain to the riptide fast;

8 wyches with a hydra gauntlet and hekatrix with an agoniser, a haemi with a liquifier gun and an archon with a husk blade and blast pistol. all in a raider with aethersails and a flickerfield.

this unit will move forward up to and behind the riptide to stay out of the way, then the next turn they will jump out and assault the riptide, as long as the archon can cause a wound it will die without eternal warrior, minus that they squad can do some hurt to it.

the only downside that I see to this is the fragility to overwatch and other shooting, this may be best saved after the battle has been engaged for a turn or two and then unleash the attack, then the tau will be more spread out and less capable to counter the assault boat.

second to this is a good number of lance shots should do some good damage to this, again it may take a couple of turns but you make it so he looses that 2+ base save and either uses the 5+ or is forced to risk a wound for the 3++

i know their may be better armies for this or better units, but this is what i have with what models i got and it isn't to bad IMO.

 chaplaincliff wrote:
I am looking at my Dark Eldar and I see a pretty average unit that can bring some pain to the riptide fast;

8 wyches with a hydra gauntlet and hekatrix with an agoniser, a haemi with a liquifier gun and an archon with a husk blade and blast pistol. all in a raider with aethersails and a flickerfield.

this unit will move forward up to and behind the riptide to stay out of the way, then the next turn they will jump out and assault the riptide, as long as the archon can cause a wound it will die without eternal warrior, minus that they squad can do some hurt to it.

the only downside that I see to this is the fragility to overwatch and other shooting, this may be best saved after the battle has been engaged for a turn or two and then unleash the attack, then the tau will be more spread out and less capable to counter the assault boat.

second to this is a good number of lance shots should do some good damage to this, again it may take a couple of turns but you make it so he looses that 2+ base save and either uses the 5+ or is forced to risk a wound for the 3++

i know their may be better armies for this or better units, but this is what i have with what models i got and it isn't to bad IMO.

Of course you have an easy way to kill the Riptide. He is an MC, and you're playing Dark Eldar. You guys laugh at MCs and the average Carnifex has nightmares about splinter weapons.

Why do people say JotWW? I thought jump troops are immune?

Kevlar wrote:
Why do people say JotWW? I thought jump troops are immune?

Flying monstruous creatures are immune to JOTWW , while jump / jet pack units are not.

Kevlar wrote:
Why do people say JotWW? I thought jump troops are immune?

Jump Troops are not their own unit type anymore, they are an add - on to an existing unit type
e.g.
Last edition assault marines were unit type: Jump Infantry
This edition assault marines are unit type: Infantry (Jump)

Jaws won't do a single thing to him if he counts as jump troop. It doesn't efefct jump troops so that's out of the question.
See above someone saying it's not but i'm sure i saw that it doesn't effect jump troops at all.
Any faq ruling how that works versus jaws now then? Since if it's only the fact that they changed from jump infantry to infantry (jump) it seems the rule shoudl still apply and it's just wishful rule tweaking that says it hits jump infantry. I'm off the fang myself but umtil I can see any evidence that it will work as hitting jump infantry I will play it as before.

do the same I do to other Big Beasties: Fire Everything at it.

but most likely itll be the job of my Annibarges to force it to the ground.

Ive had a single barge shoot down my opponants Flyrant (Warlord) from full wounds with its first shot in the game. Kinda weird how snapshots gives better hits than Full BS

It's not a flyer.

He's not fearless. You can force pinning tests on him with snipers, barrage, powers, anything that causes pinning.

For Nids, I've been thinking:

He is only Ld9 at most I think. Using Zoanthropes with Warp Lances, or a Doom with Spirit Leech/Psychic Shriek is a good way to put one down by forcing invul saves.

A Mawloc is actually a decent choice against Tau, assuming you take a Swarmlord or Hive Commander upgrade - he stays safe on your first turn, then pops up from underground. Doesn't have to attack the Riptide, but disrupting Tau forces - and they hate that.

Outflanking might also work - a Tervigon with Psychic Shriek outflanking may catch a Riptide and hit him with more wounds. Life Leech, Puppet Master, Terrify are also all useful skills against a Riptide. Imagine being able to use him to shoot his own models...

If you use puppet master on a riptide, can you force him to use his reactor for a chance to cause a wound? Also, if you did this, wouldn't it leave him vulnerable in close combat as he would lose the 3++ save if he had gained it the previous turn?

Seems like telepathy has a lot of answers for the riptide. Terrify, psychic scream, puppet master, and hallucination all seem like great ways to shut him down.

Ai, pity I have orks and necrons.

Though Orks have the Shokk attack gun and Zzap cannons (finally, they might be useful!), so they win out there.

Orks should do pretty well to be honest. I know from experience that a single pass of a DakkaJet on a WAAGH can down a lot of 2+ Saves, so 2 of them should easily mince a Riptide in one Turn (or one will on a Waagh)

@Biophysical: All I have to do to force a similar number of wounds is make myself Snapshot, which is as easy as move 12"

Gah. I'm not really looking forward to facing this thing at all. We have a fair few Tau Players in our local meta and more are joining the so called Greater Good. We're having a Tau-themed game this Saturday and you can be assured that there'll be plenty of the buggers there.

I really only play Orks in 40k at the moment. The 3++ is really annoying though, otherwise I'd just set about with Power Klaws or just force them ones with massed attacks. Hopefully, if I can get first turn, I should be able to get there in time. After all, every unit in my army, with the exception of lootas, is fast. And red. The latter is more important.

At the end of the day though, it is an elite choice meaning that in no circumstances can it claim objectives (which is what most of the missions are). If you can focus on the job in hand, you may be able to win the battle, even if you don't take out the Riptide(s).

 IHateNids wrote:
Orks should do pretty well to be honest. I know from experience that a single pass of a DakkaJet on a WAAGH can down a lot of 2+ Saves, so 2 of them should easily mince a Riptide in one Turn (or one will on a Waagh)

The problem with that is that the Riptide's Toughness 6 means that it is far more resilient than most 2+ save models. A Dakkajet on a Waaaagh! turn fires 18 shots; two fire 36. 36 shots * 3/4 hits = 27 hits * 1/2 wounds = 13.5 wounds * 1/6 failed saves = 2.25 wounds get through. If the Riptide has a stimulant injector, the numbers get worse.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

staticchange wrote:
If you use puppet master on a riptide, can you force him to use his reactor for a chance to cause a wound? Also, if you did this, wouldn't it leave him vulnerable in close combat as he would lose the 3++ save if he had gained it the previous turn?

No, the reactor is used in the movement phase and isn't part of a shooting attack.

All of those "remove instantly without any saves, other than ID weapons" seems good.

Black mace

Monolith portal thingy

JotWW

Would Tank Shocking the Riptide with an Ork Battle Wagon equiped with a Def Rolla be an option for an Ork player to deal with the Riptide? That would be what? D6 S10 AP 1/2 hits if it decides to get out of the way?

 Typhus the Betrayer wrote:
All of those "remove instantly without any saves, other than ID weapons" seems good.

Black mace

Monolith portal thingy

JotWW

Black Mace is a toughness test, it is unlikely to fail
Monolith is a strength test, and the monolith is very slow, it is unlikely to fail
Jaws works great


ID works good. Murder Sword, powered up Huskblad, Fleshguantlets why not.

Hmm, is the riptide immune to sweeping advances? If not then that's one way to defeat it, assuming it fails it's leadership test (unlikely...)

He isnt fearless.

Simply drag a large ish unit wide enough to assault a unit and the riptide at the same time, smash the unit in combat, chase down the riptide.
Even with fearless models, it builds wounds like crazy.


Failing that, any Initiative tests work well, or "removed from play" like wraith weapons or force weapons to some extent.

 Exergy wrote:

 Typhus the Betrayer wrote:
All of those "remove instantly without any saves, other than ID weapons" seems good.

Black mace

Monolith portal thingy

JotWW

Black Mace is a toughness test, it is unlikely to fail
Monolith is a strength test, and the monolith is very slow, it is unlikely to fail
Jaws works great


ID works good. Murder Sword, powered up Huskblad, Fleshguantlets why not.

Yeah I was going to point out that the Monolith's Portal of Exile requires a strength test, so it is very unlikely that the Riptide will fail that test.

Riptides aint that scary.. they are like dreadknights... iv'e had shootas to Pinn him down before! QUANITY KILLS QUALLITY! sorry but it's true.

FOR THA WAAAAAAAAAGH!

Gotta agree with mostly everyone... Kill it like you kill a Dreadknight.

Tac. marines with krak grenades do the job nicely.

Lucarikx

Cause them to lose combat, they dont have fearless, so if they lose by a wound you can overrun them as they flee, easy way to get rid of nasty Riptides.

Does it have eternal warrior? If not, plenty of instant death weapons out there that only need to get one wound on it.

Or else, tie it up.

It's initiative 2 right? A C'tan Shard with Time's Arrow will make it vanish instantly with a 66% chance. Try to move the shard through LoS blocking terrain to get to it I suppose. Send whip coil wraiths after it first to pin it down and stop it from 4d6'ing away from the shard. The wraiths will make its I even worse. It has to roll a 1 to keep existing then.

Tesseract labrinth.
Have the overlord ride a sea of scarabs then lock the riptide in a pokeball.

My way of dealing with a Dreadknight is Ghazzy, i dont think that would be as viable against a Riptide since it has a 3++.

However i dont think it would pose as big of a severe annoyance/threat as a DK because it doesnt instantly jump across the table and get locked in combat with one of my elites so i cant shoot the damn thing. The few times ive been allowed to fire at the dang thing ive taken it down or almost killed it.

That being said my lootas probably wont shoot at it till later in the game. Why? Its one model with limited attacks. I find i do much better sending the first/second volley of my lootas into troops or lighter elites just to thin numbers down vastly. Every time i aim them at bigger units off the bat they always fail me

As for the Monolith thing - isnt that a very short range? how the hell would you reach the Riptide with that slow and virtually useless behemoth in 6th?

 Exergy wrote:

 Typhus the Betrayer wrote:
All of those "remove instantly without any saves, other than ID weapons" seems good.

Black mace

Monolith portal thingy

JotWW

Black Mace is a toughness test, it is unlikely to fail
Monolith is a strength test, and the monolith is very slow, it is unlikely to fail
Jaws works great


ID works good. Murder Sword, powered up Huskblad, Fleshguantlets why not.

Add sorcerors and remove murder sword. Murder Sword is only against a character or IC, and since the riptide is a MC, no dice.

TH/SS termies always work too, guarenteed 3++ is better than a 16.67% chance for 3++, and Str 8 will still wound on 2s and require that 5++. At least 5 TH/SS guys will be enough for a single riptide.

Wait the Riptide isnt a character? I find that to be bullcrap. The dreadknight is a character and thats what makes it so freakin tough for us orks in melee because it always challenges out our PK nob.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Wait the Riptide isnt a character? I find that to be bullcrap. The dreadknight is a character and thats what makes it so freakin tough for us orks in melee because it always challenges out our PK nob.

Yep, its a jetpack MC. Makes sense, since the cowardly tau don't want their suit getting crinkled by a PK totting nob/warboss.

well thats good news for my orks bad for my tau (waiting on my dex thats why i didnt know).

Thats a major weakness. I cant believe they wouldnt make them a character since challenges are so gamechangingly strong in a fight. So now if i catch him with a boyz group he WILL get hit by my pk nob unless he was in front or didnt pile in far enough. Every other MC is a character and challenges him out.

 IHateNids wrote:

@Biophysical: All I have to do to force a similar number of wounds is make myself Snapshot, which is as easy as move 12"

Ah, yes, you make an excellent point. I still think it will be tough to get through T6, 2+ save, FNP platform that doesn't need to get close to do it's job. It can surely be done, but it's not a very efficient use of fire.

Definitely would focus on trying to melee it to death. It's a MC but it's still Tau.

Librarians with force weapons comes to mind since the Riptide is not am Eternal Warrior.

Yep my plan seems solid seeming it isn't fearless and it's Tau (low I)

Horde of Daemonettes, Alluress with Witstealer Sword, Herald with Beguilement and Witsealer Sword

Herald strikes first with it's rending attacks, if 1 unsaved wound is made then the beast has to pass an I test or take another wound... Them the Alluress attacks, same thing. Then Daemonettes hit it with their rending attacks... Oh and they all re-roll failed to hit rolls.

If it's not dead and it runs I'll almost always sweep it.

As an Ork player, I will say: as usual. Spam it to death with Lootas. Saturation will do the job. And a SAG could make the job as well

I played against one last night. Chaos spawn with Mark of Nurgle were very effective against it. Fast enough to chase it down, and once it's locked in combat it's pretty easy to tarpit. It's damage output in close combat is pretty underwealming - low ws means it's usually needing 4+ to hit, and it's only doing 3 attacks.

Kroot with sniper ammo will prolly do the job. : )

All of you are proposing solutions which do not take into account its' 72" range and JSJ.

Charge it. Hilarious. How are you ever going to get into charge range short of a A) Stormraven and a minor miracle and B) Caestus Assault Ram?

Lootas are what, 48"? Stand off 49" and drop insta-death pie plate on your Lootas, then JSJ 2D6 backwards.

Chaos Spawn. They have no save against a shooting army which can Overwatch every unit in the army at BS 2.

You're assuming solutions for a Dreadknight work against Riptides, but Dreadknights don't have an effective 72" range.

Also, I'm not sure what crack you're on, but here's news: Monstrous Creatures are fearless.

Well now that I have a seeker herald I'm switching Daemonettes for seekers and giving the herald a steed.


It's got, what? 6" (realised that unlike jump, jet doesn't have the 12" movement bit, so seekers are faster than a riptide) move, 2D6 Thrust move? I've got 12" move D6 + 6" run move, & fleet.

72" is not going to be usful either, the average gaming board is 48" width-ways, so unless it's shooting from one corner to another diagonally or length ways it's not really a big woop.

Also, they have fear, not fearless, big difference.

Yep, Seekers + herald is looking good

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
All of you are proposing solutions which do not take into account its' 72" range and JSJ.

Charge it. Hilarious. How are you ever going to get into charge range short of a A) Stormraven and a minor miracle and B) Caestus Assault Ram?

Lootas are what, 48"? Stand off 49" and drop insta-death pie plate on your Lootas, then JSJ 2D6 backwards.

Chaos Spawn. They have no save against a shooting army which can Overwatch every unit in the army at BS 2.

You're assuming solutions for a Dreadknight work against Riptides, but Dreadknights don't have an effective 72" range.

Also, I'm not sure what crack you're on, but here's news: Monstrous Creatures are fearless.

Anything that can go 12" in the movement phase has a pretty good chance of chasing it down even on a flat, empty table, never mind one packed with units and terrain.

On a 6*4 table, well placed lootas with 48" range are going to cover most of the table. It's take some very careful army placement to allow the riptide to stay 49" at all times.

Spawn have no save, but they do have toughness 6. Say you've got 100 overwatch shots hitting on bs2, that's still only 33 hits, and if you're wounding on 5+ that's 11 wounds. Realistically, there's a good chance you'll only be wounding on 6+, which is only 5 wounds. Regarless, that means a good chance of 2-3 models left in a 5 spawn unit. Even if you manage to totally wipe out that squad, it's only worth 180 points, and the next unit I assault your army with gets no overwatch unless Tau have some crazy new rule I'm missing. In the game I played last night I charged a riptide which had about 4 squads of firewarriors and kroot nearby to overwatch. All they did was strip off a couple of wounds from 1 model and the rest quite happily tied up the riptide and eventually killed it.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Lootas are what, 48"? Stand off 49" and drop insta-death pie plate on your Lootas, then JSJ 2D6 backwards.

If my opponent spends his Riptide's time shooting at my Lootas, I will be a very happy Warboss indeed.

Creed some Demolishers on the side and a Primaris Psyker to enfeeble it to T5... ID time

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
All of you are proposing solutions which do not take into account its' 72" range and JSJ.

Charge it. Hilarious. How are you ever going to get into charge range short of a A) Stormraven and a minor miracle and B) Caestus Assault Ram?
Any beast or cav unit will do it, 12" a turn + run + not slowed by terrain.

Lootas are what, 48"? Stand off 49" and drop insta-death pie plate on your Lootas, then JSJ 2D6 backwards.
Nice favour you just did for the Ork player

Chaos Spawn. They have no save against a shooting army which can Overwatch every unit in the army at BS 2.
See above about beasts and cav

You're assuming solutions for a Dreadknight work against Riptides, but Dreadknights don't have an effective 72" range.
Range isn't everything, Riptides and Dreadknights are roughly as durable as each other, except that a dread knight is going to be much more manouverable when you take terrain and its shunt into account.

Also, I'm not sure what crack you're on, but here's news: Monstrous Creatures are fearless.
No, they most certainly are not, that being said, Dreadknights and Riptides are the only MCs that happen to not be fearless

For my Eldar I am looking at scatter lasers to force saves on it (the 1s will come) or units of deep striking warp spiders to blast it and jump away.

Watch out for the interceptor suits though.

I know that riptides have longer range than war walkers but the walkers can outflank if necessary to close the gap and maybe use an autarch to improve the reserve roll.

Also as an aside, how about mind war? I know it is short range but a seer on a bike could get close and zap the buggers brain (as long as it doesn't have the 3++ up) with some semi decent rolling.

While we are talking about seers on bikes, a reasonable sized seer council with fortune up and maybe doom could probably get in and witchblade it to death. If not they would at least hold it up for a long while with 4++ rerollable.

Plus with their invuln save they don't care one jot about markerlights reducing cover saves!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The alternative would be to use telepathy powers on it as others have suggested.

I also think a couple of wraithlords with star cannons and bright lances for the ap2 might have a shot against it.

 The Shadow wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Lootas are what, 48"? Stand off 49" and drop insta-death pie plate on your Lootas, then JSJ 2D6 backwards.

If my opponent spends his Riptide's time shooting at my Lootas, I will be a very happy Warboss indeed.

Same

Im not firing my lootas at the riptide, my boyz and bikerz will deal with him. I want my lootas thinning down the ranks BEHIND the Riptide so the supporting overwatch is less effective and theres less fire from the numbers for when my hordes reach their gunline anyway. If he wastes all his fire dealing with my lootas, i'll still sweep over him because my 80+ boyz and my 6 bikerz will overrun him. Unless i wiff every single intervening model cover save, biker save, and/or he gets a REDICULOUS amount of overwatch wounds, he wont fend off that many boyz in charge range.
I say intervening model save because unless he is on a hill he will be shooting through his "kroot wall" that im seeing people favor atm. Intervening model 5+ cover save is ANY model not in the firing unit, friendly or not.

Deep strike deathmarks near the riptide
Night Scythe deploy 10+ warriors near riptide
Triarch Stalker hits Riptide - anything that shoots at the riptide is Tl,
should damage it

ALLIES?

Plus maybe the Tau player wants one to DISTRACT you from rest of the army. Continue on the objective. Implacable advance mode initiated.

I would probably just throw beast hunter shells at it until it failed an inv and died. 72" small blast at bs4 will probably hit, 2+ to wound and a 3++/5++ save or 4+ cover. Instant death tank shells are fun. Probably be most effective if I have the first turn, so that the nova reactor isn't online yet. Would also use the concentrate fire order to force rerolls on cover saves.

Other than that, probably just ignore it and kill all of the marker lights and troops.

 MoonlightSonata wrote:
It's initiative 2 right? A C'tan Shard with Time's Arrow will make it vanish instantly with a 66% chance. Try to move the shard through LoS blocking terrain to get to it I suppose. Send whip coil wraiths after it first to pin it down and stop it from 4d6'ing away from the shard. The wraiths will make its I even worse. It has to roll a 1 to keep existing then.

if it is in BTB with a wraith with whip coil it cannot be shot.

Beast hunter shells?

 Krellnus wrote:
Beast hunter shells?

An upgraded ammo type for command or commissar vanquishers from the ABG list.

Ah, thought it was from IA, thanks.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

Chaos Spawn. They have no save against a shooting army which can Overwatch every unit in the army at BS 2.

unless they are charging through terrain, which they love to do. You can use your market lights to take off the cover save but then you dont have enough to get BS2. 5 spawn is 180 points. They will be chasing things down supported by other things, you only get to over watch one thing per turn.

My "plan" for dealing with a riptide will probably end up being my plan against every other big unit that I cannot handel...

Try really hard not to get tunnel vision, and focus on engaging the rest of the army, and keep my units cheap enough and my fire power spread out enough that I don't get gutted by a volly or two. Its served me well so far.

on Another note, until the Eldar Codex gets redone, a Full Jetseer Council will still be very difficult for Tau to deal with. With a turbo boost can be right in Tau's face turn 1, with a 3+/4++ save with a re-roll from fortune to soak fire, and can beat any tau unit they catch in close combat. Pretty solid unit which can apply a lot of pressure to things like a Riptide, and the rest of the Tau gunline and take a ton of pressure off of the rest of the squishy elves.

Do you guys really think I will leave my riptide without support? All of these cavalry threats won't make it across the board. I play with 11 Markerlights firing at BS 5 (Commander/drone controller with 2 attached to 3 Crisis suits with 6 drones; 3 Marksmens from SDT @ BS 5). I can light up what I want and remove cover with emough to up BS of Hammerhead with an overcharged Ion cannon. Only problem I will concede is those units with Invuls.

Also, for any one using deepstrike/droppod. the Riptide can carry interceptor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 akaean wrote:
My "plan" for dealing with a riptide will probably end up being my plan against every other big unit that I cannot handel...

Try really hard not to get tunnel vision, and focus on engaging the rest of the army, and keep my units cheap enough and my fire power spread out enough that I don't get gutted by a volly or two. Its served me well so far.

on Another note, until the Eldar Codex gets redone, a Full Jetseer Council will still be very difficult for Tau to deal with. With a turbo boost can be right in Tau's face turn 1, with a 3+/4++ save with a re-roll from fortune to soak fire, and can beat any tau unit they catch in close combat. Pretty solid unit which can apply a lot of pressure to things like a Riptide, and the rest of the Tau gunline and take a ton of pressure off of the rest of the squishy elves.

Be careful what you wish for, the trend that GW is taking is away from one trick pony armies. Jetseer Council will be a problem, but it might get a nerf bat so its not OP.

For marines and chaos marines couldn't you just plasma spam the riptide?

For instance 5 havocs with 4 plasma guns (champ can't have a plasma gun) in rapid fire range, thats 8 plasma shots. You will probably hit with 6 or 5 shots and then wound on 3+ which would be about 4 or 3 wounds. The riptide would then have no armor save. I know about its 3++ nova reacter thingy, but, i thought that it wasn't always active. and you do have to remember that people do fail saves.

The gets hot rule wouldn't really do anything cause you would get a 3+ save against it.

how will you get five havocs into rapid-fire range of a Riptide, pray tell? Foot slog? Rhino? Land Raider?

How about 12 lascannons? I'm pretty sure that would do it.

Lucarikx

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
how will you get five havocs into rapid-fire range of a Riptide, pray tell? Foot slog? Rhino? Land Raider?

on a 4*6 table with cover, starting 12" in you can either foot slog it in backing the tide into a corner, Flat out a rhino first turn and jump out turn 2, or infiltrate as chaos often can infiltrate d3 infantry units.
A simple havoc squad costs less than a riptide, and the riptide cannot kill it in a single turn. If the rest of the tau army focuses on such a low point cost threat then the rest of the tau army isnt firing at the rest of the chaos army.

Might not kill it in one turn, but it'll sure hurt it.

Depends on which ++ save the thing is using that turn.

Same goes with my Dark Lances

 Lucarikx wrote:
How about 12 lascannons? I'm pretty sure that would do it.

Lucarikx

you mean 4 vendettas, yeah 4 vendettas would do it.

 Lucarikx wrote:
How about 12 lascannons? I'm pretty sure that would do it.

Lucarikx

I'm looking forward to pimpslapping the thing's knee with Powerklaws too

 Ascalam wrote:
Might not kill it in one turn, but it'll sure hurt it.

Depends on which ++ save the thing is using that turn.

Same goes with my Dark Lances

the thing is you know if it has a 5++ or a 3++ that turn, so you can plan your shooting accordingly. When it has the 3++ up, it isnt really worth shooting, but once it's down to the 5++ it is time to kill it.

 Exergy wrote:

 Ascalam wrote:
Might not kill it in one turn, but it'll sure hurt it.

Depends on which ++ save the thing is using that turn.

Same goes with my Dark Lances

the thing is you know if it has a 5++ or a 3++ that turn, so you can plan your shooting accordingly. When it has the 3++ up, it isnt really worth shooting, but once it's down to the 5++ it is time to kill it.

True enough. It's not like I can't find something else to vaporise while it turtles..


Yurtle the Riptide

It seems like the real solution to the Riptide is to ignore it until your opponent doesn't activate the 3++. If your opponent gives it FNP you might as well not bother at all. It is probably the most resilient unit in the game.

The only sure way to deal with it efficiently is to ID it somehow (still very difficult through a 3++ and 5+ FNP), or to disable it through powers.

If I was a Tau player bringing WAAC lists, I would bring three riptides in every list. This gives you a heavy support base to your army that realistically can't be killed. I'm honestly not sure what GW was thinking (beyond $$). Who gives a T6 model 5 wounds, 2+/3++, and the option for FNP? And a jump pack? and a str8 ap2 pie plate?

This entire thread is people grasping at straws and elaborate vacuum scenarios that even still would probably only kill it in 2-3 turns of concentrated effort. God help you if your opponent takes 3 of them.

 Eldarslayer26 wrote:
For marines and chaos marines couldn't you just plasma spam the riptide?

For instance 5 havocs with 4 plasma guns (champ can't have a plasma gun) in rapid fire range, thats 8 plasma shots. You will probably hit with 6 or 5 shots and then wound on 3+ which would be about 4 or 3 wounds. The riptide would then have no armor save. I know about its 3++ nova reacter thingy, but, i thought that it wasn't always active. and you do have to remember that people do fail saves.

The gets hot rule wouldn't really do anything cause you would get a 3+ save against it.

Ignoring logistics, I don't think this is a good example. 8 shots at BS4 is 5.28 hits / 3.48 wounds and 1.33 Gets Hot. Riptide has a normal 5++, the 3++ is Nova specific, so that's down to 2.30 (5++) / 1.74 (3++) unsaved wounds. Riptide can have Stimulant Injector (FNP), knocking it down to 1.53 / 1.16 wounds. If I'm going to take a solo Riptide, I'm going to try and give it a Stimulant Injector.

Also, you say people fail saves, then ignore failing the save for Gets Hot.

God I hope all my opoonents are stupid enough to run their awesome close combat units at my mobile Riptide (Don't forget it can move 4d6 in the assault phase if it uses it's nova charge). You run straight at him, while my markerlights and templates murder your marine/orks/nids/whatever.

I recommend you shoot him to death, close combat isn't really going to be an option.

One does not simply out-shoot Tau...

Man, I took out a Riptide over the weekend with 15 Plaguebearers. WS3 I3 and poison meant that with the charge I took out 1 or two wounds, and proceeded to tarpit it with one or two more wounds a turn.

Surprisingly good, because in that instance the PB's weren't useful for much else by that stage.

 Monkee wrote:
Man, I took out a Riptide over the weekend with 15 Plaguebearers. WS3 I3 and poison meant that with the charge I took out 1 or two wounds, and proceeded to tarpit it with one or two more wounds a turn.

Surprisingly good, because in that instance the PB's weren't useful for much else by that stage.

I think you have it right here. Why worry about killing it when you can just get in CC with it and prevent it from hurting anything. For Daemons it seems that Nurgle and Slaanesh will take the thing down pretty well. If it isn't immune to instant death, plague drones could get a lucky shot, or worst cast you throw a bloodthirster at it.

I always think CC is going to be the way forward for it - few armies can bring enough high strength weapons to get through T6, 2+ 3++.

Demons in particular seem to have less to worry about the riptide than most. With cheap, fast units with invulnerables the St8 AP2 is just overkill.

Conversly, with those blast templates and interceptor I'd think it's death incarnate towards deep striking terminators; the only way they'd survive is if you can precision strike them out of LoS which isn't going to be practical often.

Overall, I think the Riptide is a nasty unit, but by no means overpowered and about right for it's points.

@ Asmodai,

I would use a rhino transport and try to use cover as much as possible.

@Quark,

I see what you mean about how many saves it gets...
What chance do you think a defiler has?

Yeah, I agree with it being balanced and all too.

I don't understand why people say S8 Large Pie Plate this, 4D6 Jump that, 3++ there...

First of all he can only choose one per turn, so if he drops pie plates on you he can only jump 2D6 and has 5++ which might be more than likely for heavy weapons to punch through depending on the terrain.

If he doesn't he gets like 3 shots at S7 I believe?
That's only a strong shooting, but that's it.
And doesn't stop the person from advancing.

4D6 is good but losing out on the S8 Large Blast and 3++ means that I'd be pretty happy about that.

It's a really great unit but is it that overpowered?
Not really.

Its S7AP2 Hvy3 usually

S8AP2 Pie on overcharge

S9AP2 Ordnance Pie on Nova

 Makutsu wrote:
Yeah, I agree with it being balanced and all too.

I don't understand why people say S8 Large Pie Plate this, 4D6 Jump that, 3++ there...

First of all he can only choose one per turn, so if he drops pie plates on you he can only jump 2D6 and has 5++ which might be more than likely for heavy weapons to punch through depending on the terrain.

The riptide can overcharge the Ion for an S8 AP3 pie plate and Nova Charge for the 4d6 or 3++ in the same turn.

Its AP2, on all three of its profiles

 Makutsu wrote:
Yeah, I agree with it being balanced and all too.

I don't understand why people say S8 Large Pie Plate this, 4D6 Jump that, 3++ there...

First of all he can only choose one per turn, so if he drops pie plates on you he can only jump 2D6 and has 5++ which might be more than likely for heavy weapons to punch through depending on the terrain.

If he doesn't he gets like 3 shots at S7 I believe?
That's only a strong shooting, but that's it.
And doesn't stop the person from advancing.

4D6 is good but losing out on the S8 Large Blast and 3++ means that I'd be pretty happy about that.

It's a really great unit but is it that overpowered?
Not really.

The S8 AP2 is not nova; its merely overcharged.

Overcharge is an ability all ion weapons get.

 IHateNids wrote:
Its AP2, on all three of its profiles

Thanks. I keep thinking about the Ion hammerhead.

Okay, so trying to work with you guys here to beat the G*d D*mn Gundam, remember each turn it has a 33% chance to hurt itself with no saves allowable except a 33% chance FNP. It then has to choose which item to accelorate. So if they choose the invul, they cannot super jump move in assault (which they will not use due to getting overwatch), fire its fusion or plasma twice, or nova charge it's big gun. Only option is sustained fire but those are shots that can be used to take out other targets. It's on the field to draw your attention away from the objective takers or denial units.

Edit: possible option to take it down, is there any abilities that cause gets hot on a 2? Overcharging creates gets hot, so the likely hood that the riptide will fire it's burst in over is unlikely, yes 12 shots (12 possible gets hots that could kill the model.) Overcharing the ion, makes a large blast weapon with 1 chance to get hot (more likely to be used regularly.) Turn 1, it will overcharge the ion, 60" S8 AP 3, to take out troop movers. Turn 2+, it will likely take it's invuln save.

I hadn't actually realised it was either a 3++ or the 4D6, I thought it could do both in one turn.

If that's the case, it opens up more options to take it down; if it opts for the 3++ it's easier to catch for CC to tarpit, and if it opts for the jump it's lascannon/ plasma time. Actually, if I was using one of these then I think I'd almost always go for the 3++ rather than the jump.

Yeah, but if you see a bunch of TH/SS Termies will be in Assault range of you next turn, you choose Jump, walk backwards, drop an Overcharged Pieplate on them, then jump 4D6 futhur away

It's 4d6 in the assault move. Broadsides could still overwatch for it.

As an eldar player i am not fearing this over grown armoured amphibian, we have many tool for the job depending on the range, i will list them for other eldar players but always remember that divination and standard eldar powers need to be in effect to really ruin the tau's fun.

firstly Pathfinders!!!!!! ap1 round combined with guide, doom and misfortune will result in pain for this guy
secondly Scatter lasers with combined with above power, this one will destroy whole group of terminators so why not him.

i wont mention things like harlequins and wraithguard as its unlikely the tau player would allow his riptide to get close to them

i think main point here is that you have so treat him like a over grown termie, so bumper amounts of strengh 6+ fire power so with massed diced you can get him failing saves, and there gonna hate pathfinders because GK's and DW hate them, and so do nurgle bikers.......and infact pathfinders are just awesome

Well fought tau 3 times today with necrons. The new tau super gundamn killed it self once due to faulty parts in the reactor. Beat it self up due to MSS and died from a overlord and wariths. And turned into swiss cheese from Tesla fire from barges and scythes.

So all kidding aside I was worried about the xv104 since well people here play the band wagon. After watching it die horribly from CC and ranged I'm not impressed. Other players using nids and chaos gave me a smile as xv104s dropped. My personal favorite was daemons vs tau when a daemon prince made the xv104 its *****. My .02 cents, bottle caps, copper, credits, souls what ever you barter with.

lynxstrife wrote:
My .02 cents, bottle caps, copper, credits, souls what ever you barter with.

I approve.

On topic, it's good to see someone bring back actual positive response and not just chicken little preaching.

lynxstrife wrote:
Well fought tau 3 times today with necrons. The new tau super gundamn killed it self once due to faulty parts in the reactor. Beat it self up due to MSS and died from a overlord and wariths. And turned into swiss cheese from Tesla fire from barges and scythes.

So all kidding aside I was worried about the xv104 since well people here play the band wagon. After watching it die horribly from CC and ranged I'm not impressed. Other players using nids and chaos gave me a smile as xv104s dropped. My personal favorite was daemons vs tau when a daemon prince made the xv104 its *****. My .02 cents, bottle caps, copper, credits, souls what ever you barter with.

Well congratulations on using the most overpowered units from 5th ed to beat a new 6th edition unit. Best enjoy your necron cheese while it lasts.

Flying MCs are obviously a big threat to Riptides, but I can safely assume failure to wrap. Daemon Princes kill things in CC? Gosh, what a revelation!

I fought Tau today and my opponent ran two riptides. I found that plasma guns do the job nicely. BiD from a plasma toting CCS and that riptide was having to roll a whole lot of invuls.

Demolishers also work well for hitting the riptide and it's drone friends. I was putting three wounds on the unit no problem with one tank.

I do wonder how effective Shadowsun attached to a Riptide would be. A high damage skirmisher with a 3D6 escape movement and a 2+ cover, a 3++ save at T6, and twinlinked everything would be a pain to deal with.

It could either act as a good decoy to protect your main troops/objectives, or a mean target popper.

I guess weapons that ignore cover like the vindicator would be your best bet for that, or if they could catch, TH/SS Termies.

Edit: Spelling, Grammar, Sleep Needed.

@happygrunt

can you remember how many plasma guns you used? I would like to try that tactic out.

 Eldarslayer26 wrote:
@happygrunt

can you remember how many plasma guns you used? I would like to try that tactic out.

This was outside of 12", but I assume if I had been within twelve the damage would have been higher, but I needed up shooting what I believe was seven plasma guns in that way. I may have also fired three more without orders. It did take several turns to kill the Riptide.

Ok thnx for the reply. I will try it with about 4 plasma gun havocs if i get the chance to play against the riptide.

Thought this might be appropriate:



------------------

But to contribute, from my own experience you've got to force saves. There's no point waiting until your opponent doesn't go with the 3++, because if he's got any sense, he almost always will. Force the 3++ saves with AP2 shooting and it should go down if you focus enough fire on it. That said, doing so normally isn't the best plan. As I said before in this thread, Riptides will never be able to capture objectives. Focus on the mission and the Riptide might not even need killing.

 The Shadow wrote:
Thought this might be appropriate:



------------------

But to contribute, from my own experience you've got to force saves. There's no point waiting until your opponent doesn't go with the 3++, because if he's got any sense, he almost always will. Force the 3++ saves with AP2 shooting and it should go down if you focus enough fire on it. That said, doing so normally isn't the best plan. As I said before in this thread, Riptides will never be able to capture objectives. Focus on the mission and the Riptide might not even need killing.

That is an awesome picture, if you don't mind, I would like to use it for my sig.

On Topic:
That probably is the best course of action against a Riptide, if the Tau player is smart, it will stay out of sight from the big things. Otherwise it will act as the bait for a Mont'ka with people wanting to kill the Tau's fancy new toy.

I don't remember exactly where, but I saw a few of you Tau players saying you where planning on using the Str 9 Ap 2 Ordnance on enemy Flyers. I'm pretty sure you cannot hit Flyers with template weapons.

Unless it goes into Hover Mode, but otherwise no you cant

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

lynxstrife wrote:
Well fought tau 3 times today with necrons. The new tau super gundamn killed it self once due to faulty parts in the reactor. Beat it self up due to MSS and died from a overlord and wariths. And turned into swiss cheese from Tesla fire from barges and scythes.

So all kidding aside I was worried about the xv104 since well people here play the band wagon. After watching it die horribly from CC and ranged I'm not impressed. Other players using nids and chaos gave me a smile as xv104s dropped. My personal favorite was daemons vs tau when a daemon prince made the xv104 its *****. My .02 cents, bottle caps, copper, credits, souls what ever you barter with.

Well congratulations on using the most overpowered units from 5th ed to beat a new 6th edition unit. Best enjoy your necron cheese while it lasts.

Flying MCs are obviously a big threat to Riptides, but I can safely assume failure to wrap. Daemon Princes kill things in CC? Gosh, what a revelation!

Sounds like you don't like necrons or get beat by them to much. And why not contribute other then troll and be a ass.

So back on topic stern guard vets with Lysander rick roll rip tides with bolter drill and hell fighter rounds.

Correct ,as per the SW FAQ
Q. If the unit type that a Wolf Priest’s Oath of
War affects is declared to be Bikes, does the unit
gain the benefit against Jetbikes, and vice versa?
A. Yes, because Jetbikes is a subcategory of the
‘Bike’ unit type. Similarly, ‘Beasts & Cavalry’ are
the same unit type, and ‘Jet Packs’ are a
subcategory of the ‘Jump Infantry’ unit type. A
Wolf Priest that has sworn his oath against one
will still get the benefit of the oath against the
other.

This is for everyone pushing the use of jotww and other psychic abilities forcing an Initiative check that doesn't effect jump infantry. just and FYI for them and Tau players so it doesn't take them by supprise in a tournament.

sadly that's an old FAQ and the Riptide isn't Jump Infantry, it's Jet Pack infantry which is still susceptible to JOTWW, although this is subject to the tourney, of course.

Actually, it's a jet pack monstrous creature, but can still be jaws'd if your not careful.

As an ork and CSM player I've been considering two tactics:
ORKS
Full unit of stormboysz with the special leader so they can attack when they deep strike + get hammer or wrath and the iniative order power claw attack in the first turn. (presuming the tau are not tooled up for intercepting too much).

CSM
Leader in the unit with sigil and a decent power weapon, MoT.
Anything unit with the demon and/or fear rule ideally which you can MoT for a 4+ inv save. Such as: possessed for the S5 and possible load of attacks.
Raptors MoK- as you can stuff 2 melta and a plasmapistol into the unit to soften it up, get the hammer of wrath attacks and then you are a little stuffed.
Warptalons MoT

Each relies on masses of basic attacks + hammer or wrath (not the possessed but CSMs need to find a use for them).
Relies on the lord challenging and surviving.
Relies on the riptide failing its fear test and striking with WS1.
Anything large unit with Demon rule+ MoT is going to be able to stay in close combat long enough to tie the riptide up for several turns.

The other combination I was considering was bikes with MoN + lord giving 2plasma gun and 2 combi-plastma (8) shots to try and weaken before going into combat. The bikes would need the icon to cause fear but don't get the 4+ inv svae of the other units. So it relies on the shooting to weaken.

The only problem is getting to the riptide, I'm working on this!
Presuming all the CSM options would be on the board, possible shieled with rhinos to get them a turn away from shooting. Not too worried about tailoring to take out a ripe tide beacause if any of these units got to the tau line thye would rip through it.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
sadly that's an old FAQ and the Riptide isn't Jump Infantry, it's Jet Pack infantry which is still susceptible to JOTWW, although this is subject to the tourney, of course.

And as it is a MC it is plus one to the JOTWW test remember so its a 3 and under to pass not 2.

 Jasper wrote:
ORKS
Full unit of stormboysz with the special leader so they can attack when they deep strike + get hammer or wrath and the iniative order power claw attack in the first turn. (presuming the tau are not tooled up for intercepting too much).

A Riptide will be able to drop an Overcharged (S8AP2) Pieplate on you lovely deep strike formation if it has a 15 point upgrade.

So bad idea, sorry for raining on your parade

That's alright boys are cheap and I have lots and lots.

Stormboyz with Boss Zagstruk are not cheap, and thats what he was on about...

Did some practice rolls with maxed Sniper Drones. The new drone controller is pretty nifty being on a BS5 spotter and has given me some okay results.

 IHateNids wrote:

 Jasper wrote:
ORKS
Full unit of stormboysz with the special leader so they can attack when they deep strike + get hammer or wrath and the iniative order power claw attack in the first turn. (presuming the tau are not tooled up for intercepting too much).

A Riptide will be able to drop an Overcharged (S8AP2) Pieplate on you lovely deep strike formation if it has a 15 point upgrade.

So bad idea, sorry for raining on your parade

I was under the impression that with the special leader they could deepstrike straight into an assault. But it is a bit weak as the powertalons need to do the damage for the weight of attacks to then knock out the riptide (and it needs to not have interceptor as I pointed out. I'll put it in the bold idea pigeon hole and bring it out for fun one day.

Zagstruk and his squad can charge the turn the deepstrike, losing some boys in the process, of course

I think you'll see interceptor on most riptides, it's just a really useful upgrade. Speaking against Zagstruk in particular, it is a good deterrent. Zagstruk doesnt deepstrike straight into assault, he can charge on the turn he deepstrikes, which is quite a difference. He'll still be sitting there with his whole squad in base contact, ripe for a pie-plating. Now the plate probably won't kill the whole unit outright (you're likely to roll at least one 1 to wound) but you'll kill most of it, if it hits. Riptide's secondary weapon system may well finish the job. If it doesn't, whatever is left of the Zagstruk squad may break. If they don't break, then you'll get a charge off, and hopefully not lose the last ork or two to supporting fire overwatch.

My gut feeling is that it's a gamble. If the pie plate hits, even if Zagstruk himself lives through it I don't think he'll kill the Riptide on his own. If it misses, he will probably do ok, or at least tarpit for a bit. Most Ork players I've met are the gambling type, so give it a whirl

Intercepter on the riptide is crazy. I cant believe i was initially taking skyfire over it lol.

Any deepstriking (or drop pod for that matter) units will fear this thing. Str8 AP2 pi plate will usually hit the entire deepstriked/droppodded unit unless you scatter like hell. What unit except a MC would survive that if it bullseyed or hit majority of the unit?

Also i found something interesting. Most tau probably wont do it as it requires an HQ slot, but if a commander is playing the buffboy role and following the riptide he can give it a 50-50 chance to Hit and Run away from combat. Vectored Retro-thrusters only say the riptide himself cannot take the upgrade, it does not say he cannot benefit from the rule Hit and Run as it only requires 1 model to have it. This is a 5pt upgrade too.

Im doing it solely because i only have 1 riptide anyway and its part of an ork army not solid tau, so it isnt even my warlord im doing it with.

lynxstrife wrote:
So back on topic stern guard vets with Lysander rick roll rip tides with bolter drill and hell fighter rounds.

I actually suppose that one should use combi-plas with sternguard. I did some mathhammer on this awhile back, and 5 combi-plas sternguard can really hurt a riptide (forgot to take FnP into account however). They, combined with shooting from a Las-pred or two can just about take it out in one turn. I'd also switch out lysander for 2-3 more guys with combi-plas for insurance reasons, since if you take out the riptide, your group will die horribly to the rest of the stuff firing back at you; you would't want your 200+ point HQ/warlord dying just for sitting next to your sternguard.

Black knights. If they can get in they can kill it pretty good, take it down to toughness 5 so wound on 2's AP2 twin linked plasmas then charge. Sheild up or down doesn't really matter. Only problem being they rely heavily on cover saves to get close and with those pesky markerlights....

For CSM (I know, you have to roll for spells, but on the off chance the Dice gods are kind or your opponent lets you select your spells...)

Sorcerer
MoN
Mastery Level 3
- Iron Arm
- Leech Life
- Gift of Contagion
Force Axe/Powerfist
Bike
Spell Familiar
Sigil of Corruption
(Enjoy your WraithLord/Old C'tan on a bike)