I know there was a topic previously about the best 1v1 combat HQ, because I posted in it, I'm saying, which is the best HQ *overall*, so you can factor in psykers, special abilities etc which help your army.. In my opinion, Skarbrand, he's just a combat tank, absolutely unstoppable, hits Swarmy on 3s, wounds on 4s, my friend disagrees xD

My vote (from experience only) is Vulkan. Great character and so many buffs. Any list that is built around his abilities is pretty tough.

Almost forgot to say: Mephiston. A librarian with the statline of an MC.. He has 5 attacks, T5, S5!! And he has 3 psychic power (which I usually roll on the Biomancy table to get either Endurance or Iron Arm, which are both awesome!!)

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
I know there was a topic previously about the best 1v1 combat HQ, because I posted in it, I'm saying, which is the best HQ *overall*, so you can factor in psykers, special abilities etc which help your army.. In my opinion, Skarbrand, he's just a combat tank, absolutely unstoppable, hits Swarmy on 3s, wounds on 4s, my friend disagrees xD

Skarbrand hits on 3's with rr's wounds on 2's(fleshbane)

Eldrad by a MILE. No other HQ comes close to the amount of hatred Eldrad brings to the table. What a D*ck.

Best HQ overall:

Rune Priest. 100 points for a 4+ psychic negation, divination table or JotWW, wounds daemons on 2+ in CC. The ability to join blob squads and dish out ATSKNF.

Like, what can compete in efficiency? They're fantastic HQ choices that aren't just points efficient, but also highly adaptable to multiple situations. The icing on the cake, is that you can take two per HQ FOC slot.

I'm intrigued to see Eldrad. For some reason I've not encountered an Eldar player since...3rd edition, so I have no idea how good he can be in game.

It depends on what you mean by "overall." Do you mean fluff+model+abilities+tactics? Or just strictly in a battlefield army setting?

For main characters I would say:

For fun time murder I would say Ghazkull Thrakka is pretty cool. He's got some fun flavor rules and can krump stuff pretty hard.

For being a massive d***k Draigo is pretty high up there with his fluff and combat stuff (less so now). Same with Creed in Apoc

Guys like Vulkan He'Stan, Sammael, Belial, Shadowsun etc. are good because they are decent heroes but give great rules to your army as a whole (terminators / bikes as troops, or masive buffs to weapons etc).

For wackiness / fun, someone like Old Zogwart can be hilarious too.

It really depends on what you value, but those are a few to bring up.

In just blanketed HQs I would say that Rune Priests take the cake (as do most SW units) simply because they are so damn efficient for their cost and have a great selection of powers to choose from, which makes them even better. Plus, in a competitive setting, you can take up to four under 2000 points and they are perfect for spamming in lists due to their efficiency.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Eldrad by a MILE. No other HQ comes close to the amount of hatred Eldrad brings to the table. What a D*ck.

He does do all of these things, but he's FAR too easy to kill in my opinion, just put a unit of CSMs with Uber Grit into his unit and he'll die, especially if they're supported by a (cheap) character like Kharn..

Coteaz.

For 100pts, what you get from him isn't even funny.

And, in a statline, math hammer combat setting stylie, no fluff involved, just the best HQ (in your opinion) in the game ;3

Counting Special Characteters? Coteaz, Huron, or Eldrad probably.

Normal HQs? Rune Priest.

Best HQ?

Celestine.

Best Warlord period and cheap as all hell. Plus she's pretty killy and synergizes great with any unit she can attach to.

If she had EW, the game would implode.

Eldrad easy to kill??? Tell that to his 3+ re-rollable invul! And yeah a CC monster like Kharn will kill him, but not as fast as you think. Getting wounds past that 3+ re-rollable is hard and being t4(!) he wont be insta-gibbed by him.

But he is mainly a support character who is the master of the psychic phase. While he is on the field other psychers are irrelevant *except other elder* thanks to RoW, RoWitnessing make him super reliable and having ALL the elder powers is just dandy. Have you seen the damage a full squadron of warwalkers with scatter lasers does with guide? Not to mention he can skip these to go full rule book for a great chance of invisibility or misfortune, or any number of EXTREAMLY potent powers. I'd even say he is one of the few units keeping elder competitive!

Id say eldrad, vulkan, rune priests or a tervigon. They offer alot to the army as whole. Not the best fighters however.

I would say Typhus.
Xtra tough, Zombie maker, murders in cc, psyker ML2...

Logan Grimnar, the great wolf. /thread

I like a level 3 Chaos Sorcerer. Cheap and can buff up their squad. I don't need a beast on combat from my HQ. Just make the other units better.

I'm going to say Abaddon, despite his lack of arms he wrecks in combat and makes chosen troops, which means 5 plasma guns in one squad as a troop choice.

 Jabbdo wrote:
Coteaz.

For 100pts, what you get from him isn't even funny.

Exactly my thought. He's a bargain for what you get. There is a corresponding thread at the 40k discussion board.

Eldrad, Corteza, Rune Priest, all good

New ideas
CCS, 50 points for 7 wounds a bunch of guns and so many special abilities. Pretty awesome

Baron. 2++, stealth, hit and run, assault and defensive grenades to the whole unit, jump troop, +1 to go first for 100 points. He isnt bad.

1v1 against other HQ's? Overlord with mindleshackle scarabs 2+ armor and 3+ invul with warscythe... Kill yourself why dont ya!

I don't think anyone has agreed with anyone else yet except Eldrad and Corteaz (GK char??), loving this discussion :3

I'll throw a vote for Eldrad. He is an absolute beast. Re-rolling saves, re-rolling to hit, and/or re-rolling to wound. In combat he tends to do better than I expect due to his great save, t4 (impressive for Eldar), and ignoring armor saves he can hold his own.

Dark Angel Librarian, 60 points of re-rollable to hit goodness.

Illuminor Szeras. Hands down.

/thread

I agree with the op. Skarbrand is an absolute beast. And giving everyone within 12 rage is brilliant if you use it right

Coteaz. So much for so little.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
Coteaz. So much for so little.

On a more serious note, I really, really love Imotekh. He makes my CC crons work the way they are suppose to, single handedly, by himself, and he is one of the hardiest Warlords in the game (with a chrono backing him up of course). He's pricey, but man, he exerts his influence on every one of your units via night fighting protection, and every one of there units via lighting. Not to mention the buffs he brings to a Warrior blob.

I love me some Imo.

Rune Priest, Dark Angels Librarian, Coteuz, Eldrad, Sevrin Loth, Destroyer Lord, and the Baron.

Point for point first prize goes to Coteaz. Eldrad is good but more than double Coteaz in points.

Space Marine Librarians, a brilliant force multiplier.
Pedro Kantor, makes sternguard scoring, and who doesn't like sternguard?
Vulkan is great with an army built around him
Zahndrehk is my favourite Necron HQ, handing out USR's to friendlies, and stripping them from enemies, and phased reinforcements, and his synergy with Obyron, who is nasty to boot makes him one of the best Necron HQ's, probably a little more situational than the stormlord, but very strong.
Eldrad is a nightmare!

I'm not so sure you can say there is a 'best' hq, there are so many variables to take into account. certainly there are very strong choices, and weak ones, but i doubt there is a best

I gotta say Eldrad is sounding better and better, but my choice still rests on Skarbrand, no other HQ could beat him 1 on 1 in combat, and I think he could easily take entire squads down with him, and he really makes back his points too.. A lot of HQs coming up here that I hadn't thought of before, Necron ones (Wardex), GK ones (Wardex), SM ones (Wardex), there seems to be a trend on who makes the 'best ' HQs for the least points.. xD Not seen the Smurf Daddy come up yet, is this because people don't like him or because he's just really bad? :S

I just had a quick read and I fail to see what is so special about eldrad....

 Juggalo17 wrote:
I just had a quick read and I fail to see what is so special about eldrad....

Probably because you're a juggalo.

Slights to intelligence and taste aside; The ability to cast two of the same psychic power a turn, + normal farseer schtick.

And so much hatred

I fail to see what my taste in music has to with anything at all. And the fact that you assume im of lesser intelligence simply based on user name only makes you look immature and pathetic. That being said I see that he can cast multiple powers etc but I still think compared to some of the other HQs mentioned he is somewhat under par

 Juggalo17 wrote:
I fail to see what my taste in music has to with anything at all. And the fact that you assume im of lesser intelligence simply based on user name only makes you look immature and pathetic. That being said I see that he can cast multiple powers etc but I still think compared to some of the other HQs mentioned he is somewhat under par

Cast multiple Psychic powers, 4 Divination powers, and Runes of Warding, which cripples enemy psykers, makes him a very good HQ. He is quite heap for what he does.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

 Juggalo17 wrote:
I just had a quick read and I fail to see what is so special about eldrad....

Probably because you're a juggalo.

Slights to intelligence and taste aside; The ability to cast two of the same psychic power a turn, + normal farseer schtick.

Its nothing to do with him being a juggalo he plays khorne marines and daemons hence only worrying about models statlines rather than their special abilities and powers

ShadarLogoth wrote:

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
Coteaz. So much for so little.

On a more serious note, I really, really love Imotekh. He makes my CC crons work the way they are suppose to, single handedly, by himself, and he is one of the hardiest Warlords in the game (with a chrono backing him up of course). He's pricey, but man, he exerts his influence on every one of your units via night fighting protection, and every one of there units via lighting. Not to mention the buffs he brings to a Warrior blob.

I love me some Imo.

As do I, as you can probably tell from my username

Everyone knows that the correct answer is Kheradruakh.

Slightly off here, as the Overlords are great, but dont compare to the other HQs listed. I will say that the MSS is the best piece of war gear in the game, bar none.

As to the topic, eh, Id have to go with Trayzn. The survivability he brings is unmatchable in any of the HQs, plus, *IF* he gets to attack, chances are hes gona wreck a blob.

Eldrad is not the most points cheap character but for what he does, he's still a bargain. Boardwide anti-psyker ability is good, sticking him to a D-Cannon squad to abuse T7? Even better.

This thread probably would have been better as,
"Who is the best HQ for each codex"
and then had a head-to-head elimination tournament to see who the winner would be.

Anyway, if we're talking CC, then an Overlord bearing Mindshackle Scarabs wins hands down.
If it's tactical superiority, then I'm not sure (I'd vote Zahndrekh, but there's probably better HQ out there... I'm hearing good/broken things about this Eldrad guy... but who knows what will happen once the new Elder dex drops?)

Hang on what what? Space Marine Librarians...????

Way more expensive than a Dark Angels Librarian to name one but more than that, I can't figure out how to use him really well. That is quite possibly more my failure than theirs.

Coteaz is great but at T3 he is a touch weak but I can really get him, bubble wrap him in henchmen and go to town and use all those multipliers. But a SM Librarian.

Some one help me out.

I'm just going to say creed, he's even got a body guard but c'mon a man who can anything even emperor titans
behind sandbags which are behind the enemy deserves a medal......CCCRRREEEEEEEEEEDDDDD

+he beat tzeentch in chess

but c'mon a man who can anything even emperor titans
behind sandbags which are behind the enemy deserves a medal

That makes absolutely no sense.

Marbo. Not a HQ choice, but.. MARBO

This thread has veered so far off a discussion of competitive HQs and become just another ' MY HQ IZ BESTEST' thread.

There should be a poll here to figure it out.

 wuestenfux wrote:
There should be a poll here to figure it out.

EXACTLY.

Best HQ in BA: level 1 libby. /cry

 skoffs wrote:
This thread probably would have been better as,
"Who is the best HQ for each codex"
and then had a head-to-head elimination tournament to see who the winner would be.

Anyway, if we're talking CC, then an Overlord bearing Mindshackle Scarabs wins hands down.
If it's tactical superiority, then I'm not sure (I'd vote Zahndrekh, but there's probably better HQ out there... I'm hearing good/broken things about this Eldrad guy... but who knows what will happen once the new Elder dex drops?)

head to head would be rough with drazher (no clue how to spell without codex) the elite incubi hq (240pts holy crap) the stats and abilies are pretty legit though.

Exalbaru wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
This thread probably would have been better as,
"Who is the best HQ for each codex"
and then had a head-to-head elimination tournament to see who the winner would be.

Anyway, if we're talking CC, then an Overlord bearing Mindshackle Scarabs wins hands down.
If it's tactical superiority, then I'm not sure (I'd vote Zahndrekh, but there's probably better HQ out there... I'm hearing good/broken things about this Eldrad guy... but who knows what will happen once the new Elder dex drops?)

head to head would be rough with drazher (no clue how to spell without codex) the elite incubi hq (240pts holy crap) the stats and abilies are pretty legit though.

Head to head against ANYTHING carrying MSS would mean all it would take is one failed leadership test (taken on 3D6, no less) and it would be all over, though...

Gotta agree with the Eldrad votes. HATE trying to kill that little (*&@#$.

Lord of Change, Greater Daemon of Tzeentch with one lesser daemonic reward, two greater daemonic rewards and mastery level 3 is a pretty impressive HQ.

Good chance of having two of +1 wound and it will not die, 4+ FNP, re-roll failed saves or a 3+ save.

S8 AP2 with 5 attacks in close combat. WS6 I6. T6.

Brings divination so prescience to buff either himself or his army. Can get Bolt of Tzeentch to snipe heavy weapons and icons, or flickering fire for a ton of S5 AP4 shooting. Possibility of getting S8 AP1 18" lance to shoot down flyers or land raiders.

Flies 24" and can really pick his combats, tough to kill without skyfire, can kill just about anything.

 Nitros14 wrote:
Lord of Change, Greater Daemon of Tzeentch with one lesser daemonic reward, two greater daemonic rewards and mastery level 3 is a pretty impressive HQ.

Good chance of having two of +1 wound and it will not die, 4+ FNP, re-roll failed saves or a 3+ save.

S8 AP2 with 5 attacks in close combat. WS6 I6. T6.

Brings divination so prescience to buff either himself or his army. Can get Bolt of Tzeentch to snipe heavy weapons and icons, or flickering fire for a ton of S5 AP4 shooting. Possibility of getting S8 AP1 18" lance to shoot down flyers or land raiders.

Flies 24" and can really pick his combats, tough to kill without skyfire, can kill just about anything.

very true

 Nitros14 wrote:
Lord of Change, Greater Daemon of Tzeentch with one lesser daemonic reward, two greater daemonic rewards and mastery level 3 is a pretty impressive HQ.

Good chance of having two of +1 wound and it will not die, 4+ FNP, re-roll failed saves or a 3+ save.

S8 AP2 with 5 attacks in close combat. WS6 I6. T6.

Brings divination so prescience to buff either himself or his army. Can get Bolt of Tzeentch to snipe heavy weapons and icons, or flickering fire for a ton of S5 AP4 shooting. Possibility of getting S8 AP1 18" lance to shoot down flyers or land raiders.

Flies 24" and can really pick his combats, tough to kill without skyfire, can kill just about anything.

Unless GK or a Farseer with runes of warding are around.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Nitros14 wrote:
Lord of Change, Greater Daemon of Tzeentch with one lesser daemonic reward, two greater daemonic rewards and mastery level 3 is a pretty impressive HQ.

Good chance of having two of +1 wound and it will not die, 4+ FNP, re-roll failed saves or a 3+ save.

S8 AP2 with 5 attacks in close combat. WS6 I6. T6.

Brings divination so prescience to buff either himself or his army. Can get Bolt of Tzeentch to snipe heavy weapons and icons, or flickering fire for a ton of S5 AP4 shooting. Possibility of getting S8 AP1 18" lance to shoot down flyers or land raiders.

Flies 24" and can really pick his combats, tough to kill without skyfire, can kill just about anything.

Unless GK or a Farseer with runes of warding are around.

I played a LoC against GK recently (my last game actually), and it's just a matter of using his mobility to pick your fights. It's obviously not a great match up, but he can kite like a champion.

Runes of Warding, yeah, you've now got a 300 point vector strike. Ha. (I'm bringing my Demon Flying Circus against a Dark Harliestar on Friday, not looking to losing all my shooting)

Best in DE: Baron. He's cheap, helps his unit, gives +1 to go first and is decent in a fight.

Best in Eldar: Eldrad (we'll see what happens to him though).

I would do a poll, but I have ABSOLUTELY no idea how, only been on this thing for a couple of weeks xD If I could I would to be honest, but I don't think I'd be able to list down all the viable HQs, I don't know that much about the game.. Maybe I should take a look, figure it out, and then take all the HQs mentioned here and make a new topic with a poll?? :3

 wuestenfux wrote:
There should be a poll here to figure it out.

There should be a poll to figure out who committed the crime!
Unfortunately a poll would just be "I like this guy the most" rather than who is the most competitive HQ. In the end, it's rather a pointless question considering that you can't just take an HQ. If I could bring Eldrad on his own I totally would. Unfortunately I don't think he's worth guardians, rangers or dire avengers.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Unless GK or a Farseer with runes of warding are around.

Runes of Warding probably won't exist in a month and +3 leadership to psychic tests means he isn't too worried about the Aegis. Sure getting instant death'd sucks but he can really pick his fights since he's a flyer and is still more than capable of murdering most grey knight units.

I think Azrael, the Dark Angels Supreme grand Master. He is powerful with good wargear, and the ablity to make the Deathwing and Ravenwing troops. He can also pick his Dark angels warlord trait and can let any Dark Angels can use his leadership. He cant be beat imo.

Insane Smile wrote:
I think Azrael, the Dark Angels Supreme grand Master. He is powerful with good wargear, and the ablity to make the Deathwing and Ravenwing troops. He can also pick his Dark angels warlord trait and can let any Dark Angels can use his leadership. He cant be beat imo.

Failbaddon The Armless Warlord or Skarbrand could hand his ass to him on a silver platter if they got into Combat.. And, I've never played against DA (except that one time..) and they didn't use Azrael, so, I can't really judge on the support side of things x)

Eldrad takes the top (in my mind)....coming from a Tyranid player....and Swarmlord is pretty bada$$....

Forcing re-rolls of invulns, 4++, the ability to get Iron Arm AND Endurance, plus the ability to dish out preferred enemy or furious charge... Pretty beast....

I havn't played Failbaddon, so I can't judge him either, but see that bikes and terminators can be scoring units makes a very strong team.

Insane Smile wrote:
I havn't played Failbaddon, so I can't judge him either, but see that bikes and terminators can be scoring units makes a very strong team.

You've never played against Failbaddon?? How is this possible?? He's one of the best CSM characters, and one of the best killy characters too, I'm really surprised nobody has taken you on yet ;D

How is the Swarmlord not entering this discussion? I hate that thing.

However, this is such a biased discussion since the point values for each HQ vary so much. Is it fair to say that Eldrad is superior to St. Celestine, even though he costs twice as much? He should be superior and that is why you pay for him.

St. Celestine, while easy to kill (over and over again), is extremely annoying, keeps coming back, can be very killy against non-terminators.... AND is only 115 points.

Well, I'm gonna try to avoid the fail then.

Insane Smile wrote:
Well, I'm gonna try to avoid the fail then.

He's an extremely good character ;D And, you'll have to battle against him eventually.. He's inevitable


Automatically Appended Next Post:

roxor08 wrote:
Eldrad takes the top (in my mind)....coming from a Tyranid player....and Swarmlord is pretty bada$$....

Forcing re-rolls of invulns, 4++, the ability to get Iron Arm AND Endurance, plus the ability to dish out preferred enemy or furious charge... Pretty beast....

Swarmy has no Eternal Warrior=Owned by anything S10 ;D

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

Insane Smile wrote:
Well, I'm gonna try to avoid the fail then.

Forcing re-rolls of invulns, 4++, the ability to get Iron Arm AND Endurance, plus the ability to dish out preferred enemy or furious charge... Pretty beast....

Swarmy has no Eternal Warrior=Owned by anything S10 ;D

Well he is T6 so unless you have Enfeeble to go with your S10 i would suggest getting a force weapon instead.

Green is Best! wrote:How is the Swarmlord not entering this discussion? I hate that thing.

However, this is such a biased discussion since the point values for each HQ vary so much. Is it fair to say that Eldrad is superior to St. Celestine, even though he costs twice as much? He should be superior and that is why you pay for him.

St. Celestine, while easy to kill (over and over again), is extremely annoying, keeps coming back, can be very killy against non-terminators.... AND is only 115 points.

Insane Smile wrote:Well, I'm gonna try to avoid the fail then.

Forgot about that toughness, but yeah, a Libby or even Grey Knights would whup him ;3

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

Insane Smile wrote:
Well, I'm gonna try to avoid the fail then.

He's an extremely good character ;D And, you'll have to battle against him eventually.. He's inevitable


Automatically Appended Next Post:

roxor08 wrote:
Eldrad takes the top (in my mind)....coming from a Tyranid player....and Swarmlord is pretty bada$$....

Forcing re-rolls of invulns, 4++, the ability to get Iron Arm AND Endurance, plus the ability to dish out preferred enemy or furious charge... Pretty beast....

Swarmy has no Eternal Warrior=Owned by anything S10 ;D

Uh...the Swarmlord is T6 so it can't be instant deathed by S10 since there's the S characteristic can never go past 10 (short of Apocalypse with D weaponry) and therefore no conventional weapon can go past double his toughness. Also he can roll 4 times on the Biomancy chart meaning he has an incredibly high chance of rolling Iron Arm which gives him Eternal Warrior AND D3+S and T, making him almost nigh invulnerable to conventional weaponry and eliminating his weakness towards force/instant death weapons. Throw in the possibility of Endurance or Warp Speed which either gives him an additional layer of defense with It Will Not Die and FNP or +D3 attacks/initiative makes him able to both strike first hard and being able to take any blows back in return with almost complete impunity. Also force weapons used against him in the case where he doesn't get Iron Arm have to pass a psychic test on a 3D6 due to Shadow in the Warp meaning it is that much harder pulling off a successful kill even from guys like Grey Knights.

 Havok210 wrote:
My vote (from experience only) is Vulkan. Great character and so many buffs. Any list that is built around his abilities is pretty tough.

+1

Vulkan was the gak 5e.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Juggalo17 wrote:
I fail to see what my taste in music has to with anything at all. And the fact that you assume im of lesser intelligence simply based on user name only makes you look immature and pathetic. That being said I see that he can cast multiple powers etc but I still think compared to some of the other HQs mentioned he is somewhat under par

The run-on sentences and bad grammar did it for me.

Lysander hands down, S10 thunderhammer wielding beast, drop him with a pod of sternguard and see the tears in your opponents eyes...

Point for point a Tau Ethereal - 12" L10 and subborn bubble, with great special abilities and warlord traits all for 50 points.

azala wrote:
Point for point a Tau Ethereal - 12" L10 and subborn bubble, with great special abilities and warlord traits all for 50 points.

dude I was literally about to post the same thing.....

azala wrote:
Point for point a Tau Ethereal - 12" L10 and subborn bubble, with great special abilities and warlord traits all for 50 points.

Gives up 2 vps when he dies, and die he will. When your opponent gets two vps to your one for Slay the Warlord, you lose every time.

GK's with Brotherhood Banner auto pass there Force Weapon test so won't suffer any modifiers to psychic tests. So unless the Swarm Lord has the EW power up he is toast.

There is only one option: Mars Alpha pattern Leman Russ Vanquisher company command tank. If STR 8 AP 2 from across the table won't get you the beast hunter shells (instant death blast) will. Plus, any HQ that is not this model automatically loses on style points:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

Green is Best! wrote:How is the Swarmlord not entering this discussion? I hate that thing.

However, this is such a biased discussion since the point values for each HQ vary so much. Is it fair to say that Eldrad is superior to St. Celestine, even though he costs twice as much? He should be superior and that is why you pay for him.

St. Celestine, while easy to kill (over and over again), is extremely annoying, keeps coming back, can be very killy against non-terminators.... AND is only 115 points.

Insane Smile wrote:Well, I'm gonna try to avoid the fail then.

Forgot about that toughness, but yeah, a Libby or even Grey Knights would whup him ;3

Yeah but no....he's got 4 chances at Iron Arm which grants Eternal Warrior....Not to mention T of at least 7.... Good luck.

I still have to say Eldrad probably has more utility, but Swarmlord is probably 2nd best regarding combat effectiveness and overall board control simply because of his board presence...

roxor08 wrote:

Yeah but no....he's got 4 chances at Iron Arm which grants Eternal Warrior....Not to mention T of at least 7.... Good luck.

I still have to say Eldrad probably has more utility, but Swarmlord is probably 2nd best regarding combat effectiveness and overall board control simply because of his board presence...

He seems kinda vulnerable to any sort of AP3 high strength. 4 wounds no invulnerable at range right? Predator Annihilator will kill him on turn 2-3.

 Nitros14 wrote:

roxor08 wrote:

Yeah but no....he's got 4 chances at Iron Arm which grants Eternal Warrior....Not to mention T of at least 7.... Good luck.

I still have to say Eldrad probably has more utility, but Swarmlord is probably 2nd best regarding combat effectiveness and overall board control simply because of his board presence...

He seems kinda vulnerable to any sort of AP3 high strength. 4 wounds no invulnerable at range right? Predator Annihilator will kill him on turn 2-3.

Nope, 5 wounds. Don't forget with Biomancy he also has a high chance of regaining wounds from powers such as Soul Leech (S6 AP2 Assault 2 shots that let you regain a wound for each one that kills a model) or Endurance which not only give him FNP as an additional layer of defence from spammed high range weaponry but also It Will Not Die meaning he has a ton of chances to curb back a lot of damage you inflict upon him (which can be tough especially if he rolls high on Iron Arm, at T9 even Lascannons only wound on a 4+!). And also to be realistic you're rarely ever going to see the Swarmlord without his bodyguard of Tyrant Guard to soak up some shots for him which often makes claims of him being shot to death as a solo MC from range moot. Because in that case every heavy combat HQ could be killed easily by themselves on foot (i.e. Abbadon without a retinue/Land Raider, Draigo w/out Paladins, Ghazghkull without a Battlewagon/Nobz) but you don't factor that in because of course they're going to be in some type of transport/unit. In the same case we have to assume this applies to the Swarmlord to prevent it from being seen out of a realistic game setting.

im going to say swarmlord as not only is he amazing in combat WITHOUT psychic powers and nigh unbeatable with them, but also 18" synapse? prefered enemy/furious charge to a friendly unit? AND +1 to reserves and rerolls for outflanking! i think he's the best HQ for over all utility. combat monster, powerful psyker, very hard to kill and buffs your army all for only 15 points more than abbadon (who incidentally he would whup in a challenge)
oh and he has shadow in the warp aswell!

People keep saying: Vulkan, IF a list is made around him.. I don't really understand this as all he gives are TL Meltas and Flamers??? Could I have an example of such a list and how it would work on the tabletop, as I am interested :S

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
People keep saying: Vulkan, IF a list is made around him.. I don't really understand this as all he gives are TL Meltas and Flamers??? Could I have an example of such a list and how it would work on the tabletop, as I am interested :S

He also gives master crafted thunderhammers, which are quite good given that people love them some TH/SS termies. Anyways, I havnt had much experience with him, but if you get some sternguard with combi meltas, Termies in a LRR and some other meltas scatter around (like on land speeders or in tac squads/dreads in drop pods) I can see him doing very well.

 Nitros14 wrote:


Runes of Warding probably won't exist in a month .

Gotta say I much prefer this new Eldar codex to play against. +2 to deny the witch once a game isn't quite as scary

 Nitros14 wrote:

 Nitros14 wrote:


Runes of Warding probably won't exist in a month .

Gotta say I much prefer this new Eldar codex to play against. +2 to deny the witch once a game isn't quite as scary

Yeah, the Tzeentch Flying Circus and Heraldstar lists just got a LOT more lethal.

It has got to be Inquisitor Coteaz. He has a thunder-hammer, a 2+ save, he unlocks henchmen as troops, is a mastery level 2 psyker with divination and has a bunch of other abilities. For what you get, he is worth over 200 points quite easily. As he is only 100 points, he is an auto-take.

A special mention goes out to St Celestine, a tau commander with marker drones and a vanquisher command tank with beast hunter shells, but nothing is as good value as Coteaz.

We should just compare the hard stats and abilities. Honestly?
You're saying some librarian could spank an overlord, abaddon, and an avatar?
No way.

 poppa G wrote:
We should just compare the hard stats and abilities. Honestly?
You're saying some librarian could spank an overlord, abaddon, and an avatar?
No way.

Sure, Coteaz loses in close combat to hideously expensive HQs designed for melee, but he is by far the best overall HQ in the game. This thread is titled best overall HQ, so when you take into account everything he brings to an army for only 100 points, there is no-one better than Coteaz.

 reddwarf54 wrote:

 poppa G wrote:
We should just compare the hard stats and abilities. Honestly?
You're saying some librarian could spank an overlord, abaddon, and an avatar?
No way.

Sure, Coteaz loses in close combat to hideously expensive HQs designed for melee, but he is by far the best overall HQ in the game. This thread is titled best overall HQ, so when you take into account everything he brings to an army for only 100 points, there is no-one better than Coteaz.

Shrug. I agree that he isn't an auto disqualifier because he can't beat a melee beatstick in combat...but IDK if he's the best overall (he's certainly on the short list though)

A 100 point Rune Priest brings you similar utility (less utility buffing, better offense with codex powers, best anti psycher in the game, better in combat)
A 300 point Fateweaver arguably brings you 3x the Force multiplication (8 psychic powers, two incredible reroll abilities, the ability to become invulnerable and troll your opponent)
A Dark Angels Librarian does much of what Coteuz does for even cheaper
The Baron is incredible for a similar cost.
There's more. Coteaz is great, but is not "by far" the best.

anonymou5 wrote:

 reddwarf54 wrote:

 poppa G wrote:
We should just compare the hard stats and abilities. Honestly?
You're saying some librarian could spank an overlord, abaddon, and an avatar?
No way.

Sure, Coteaz loses in close combat to hideously expensive HQs designed for melee, but he is by far the best overall HQ in the game. This thread is titled best overall HQ, so when you take into account everything he brings to an army for only 100 points, there is no-one better than Coteaz.

Shrug. I agree that he isn't an auto disqualifier because he can't beat a melee beatstick in combat...but IDK if he's the best overall (he's certainly on the short list though)

A 100 point Rune Priest brings you similar utility (less utility buffing, better offense with codex powers, best anti psycher in the game, better in combat)

Coteaz has a Daemon Hammer, an additional wound and 2+ armour without paying extra for it, how is the Rune Priest better in combat?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

anonymou5 wrote:

 reddwarf54 wrote:

 poppa G wrote:
We should just compare the hard stats and abilities. Honestly?
You're saying some librarian could spank an overlord, abaddon, and an avatar?
No way.

Sure, Coteaz loses in close combat to hideously expensive HQs designed for melee, but he is by far the best overall HQ in the game. This thread is titled best overall HQ, so when you take into account everything he brings to an army for only 100 points, there is no-one better than Coteaz.

Shrug. I agree that he isn't an auto disqualifier because he can't beat a melee beatstick in combat...but IDK if he's the best overall (he's certainly on the short list though)

A 100 point Rune Priest brings you similar utility (less utility buffing, better offense with codex powers, best anti psycher in the game, better in combat)

Coteaz has a Daemon Hammer, an additional wound and 2+ armour without paying extra for it, how is the Rune Priest better in combat?

I honestly forget about the Artificer armor when I wrote that. I was just thinking T3 and a S6 hammer weren't really that impressive. Coteaz is better in combat (in most situations), but I think my point about him still stands.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

anonymou5 wrote:

 reddwarf54 wrote:

 poppa G wrote:
We should just compare the hard stats and abilities. Honestly?
You're saying some librarian could spank an overlord, abaddon, and an avatar?
No way.

Sure, Coteaz loses in close combat to hideously expensive HQs designed for melee, but he is by far the best overall HQ in the game. This thread is titled best overall HQ, so when you take into account everything he brings to an army for only 100 points, there is no-one better than Coteaz.

Shrug. I agree that he isn't an auto disqualifier because he can't beat a melee beatstick in combat...but IDK if he's the best overall (he's certainly on the short list though)

A 100 point Rune Priest brings you similar utility (less utility buffing, better offense with codex powers, best anti psycher in the game, better in combat)

Coteaz has a Daemon Hammer, an additional wound and 2+ armour without paying extra for it, how is the Rune Priest better in combat?

I gotta' say, for what you get, T4 with a 3+ and Instant Deathing while ignoring 3+ saves is pretty damn good for 100pts... Especially considering you can take like, 3 of them, and they have a hell of a lot of cool upgrades with the word 'wolf' in them xD

I'm an Eldar player and wanna support Eldrad but, since the nerf (slight), Coteaz (Cortez) wins it for me.

Cortez is ok as a beatstick but, the changes he can make to an Inquisitorial army would make him a bargain at 200 points.

For what he brings to the army, no one does as much as the 50-pt Ethereal.

 jy2 wrote:
For what he brings to the army, no one does as much as the 50-pt Ethereal.

Inquisior Corteaz begs to differ. He feels that for his points he could easily kill 2 Ethereals in combat, and provides better buffs

Im gonna say the necron royal court is the best its still an hq and very versatile

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
For what he brings to the army, no one does as much as the 50-pt Ethereal.

Inquisior Corteaz begs to differ. He feels that for his points he could easily kill 2 Ethereals in combat, and provides better buffs

abbadon could kill Corteaz and the 2 Ethereals in combat, but being good in combat is only part of what makes something the best HQ overall.

Im going to have to go with an ethereal(have you experienced the joy of the greater good today? No?(36 firewarriors jump out of transports within 15 inches) to bad!), a jetbike farseer(Twin linking, giving rerolls to wound, fleshbane haywire, mindwar, can drop these anywhere) , or a mark'O rain squad(6 markerlights mean my 3 firewarrior squads within 15 inches of you with an ethereal are more effecient)

Another vote for St celestine from me. At 115 pts she is an auto include in every single sob list. She can hunt anything with a high toughness, and destroys meq units in combat. But the most important things for her relate to her immortality.

As she can always come back there is no danger in sending her at anything in the game...anything. She can do damage to most things one way or another, and is just a pain when she holds up whole units. If she dies so what? She'll be back next turn. Also I don't know another character choice that has 14 wounds ( how many celestine got in my last battle).

Oh and she's got a heavy flamer for s**its and giggles!

Best HQ as stand alone?, or best HQ for what it brings to a given army?.

If its the second would have to agree Etheral is the best, I do like Fateweaver as well, recently tourny has re ignited my love for his one dice re roll. Love it when a opponent finally thinks he has killed my Daemon prince after tanking 50 odd wounds and him still have one wound left and sweeping a unit (my dice rolls in that game, unreal!).

I find the GUO is the best HQ for a warlord.
Its durable enough to make it a real PITA for your opponent to score 'Slay the Warlord'.
Its strong enough to sit in the middle of the board and say "Get off my lawn!" to any enemies that get close.

Another awesome HQ is Abbadon. Hes an IC and can beat the face of nearly every other IC in the game.

Another awesome HQ is a LoC. If you get the right power/gifts, it can destroy nearly anything.

 labmouse42 wrote:
I find the GUO is the best HQ for a warlord.
Its durable enough to make it a real PITA for your opponent to score 'Slay the Warlord'.
Its strong enough to sit in the middle of the board and say "Get off my lawn!" to any enemies that get close.

Another awesome HQ is Abbadon. Hes an IC and can beat the face of nearly every other IC in the game.

Another awesome HQ is a LoC. If you get the right power/gifts, it can destroy nearly anything.

I have to say yes, throw in a vote for the Greater Unclean One, it really is remarkable! It's just so hard to kill, it took shots from a land raider, a predator, two squads of chaos space marines with heavy bolters and a squad of cultists with autoguns ^_^

Don't forget, a GUO with its toe in difficult terrain has a 3+ cover save.

You can also get that same cover save from having models in front of the GUO.

Finally it can go to ground for a 2+ cover save when really needed.

Coteaz, his wargear alone makes him worth the 100 points...now add in abilities like shooting units that appear from reserves and disintegrating GKs largest weakness.

Point for point I don't think there's an argument.

 labmouse42 wrote:
Don't forget, a GUO with its toe in difficult terrain has a 3+ cover save.

You can also get that same cover save from having models in front of the GUO.

Finally it can go to ground for a 2+ cover save when really needed.

Slow and Purposeful means no going to ground

Now he might not be the best one on one, but i love what farsight can do, (and no, not a farsight bomb either.) when he comes in imma gonna say he and his 3 tl plamsa rifle buds here and tear you a new one with 8 fairly accurate, without markerlights by the way, s6 ap2 shots, then when you try and assault him, hes got the dawn blade, s5 ap2 hits at int, which is a 5, and has like 5 attacks with ws 5 as well.

anonymou5 wrote:
Slow and Purposeful means no going to ground

Really? Where did you read that? If in a rulebook, what page? If in a FAQ, which one?

Edit : I just double checked the main 40k FAQ and the rulebook and don't see anything in regards to this. That's fairly significant as it applies to plague bearers as well -- which is why I'm curious to know where you found that ruling.

 labmouse42 wrote:

anonymou5 wrote:
Slow and Purposeful means no going to ground

Really? Where did you read that? If in a rulebook, what page? If in a FAQ, which one?

Edit : I just double checked the main 40k FAQ and the rulebook and don't see anything in regards to this. That's fairly significant as it applies to plague bearers as well -- which is why I'm curious to know where you found that ruling.

I'm kind of glad you replied, I think I've been playing this wrong. I just checked myself and you're right, it does not say that. I may have to reconsider plaguebearers...

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Ghazghkull Thraka. WS6, T5, 4 wounds with Eternal warrior. He gets 7 str10 ap2 attacks on the charge, and can activate a 2+ invulnerable save at any moment in the game. His Waaagh makes the entire army fearless. He can destroy anyone in a challenge.

wheresmypulitzer wrote:
He can destroy anyone in a challenge.

Skarbrand.. Nuff said...

'Cept fer whereamypulitzer, yer all rootin' fer sum 'umie. Or a tree-huggin pansy (read Eldar). Everyone knows Green is da bestest as we get the koolest toys on our bosses. Dey may not be able to shoot as good as 'umies but they are great at krumpin!

Coteaz can radically change the character of an army by making a quirky retinue into standard troops. And there is so much you can do with it.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

wheresmypulitzer wrote:
He can destroy anyone in a challenge.

Skarbrand.. Nuff said...

No, Ghazghkull probably wins that.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

wheresmypulitzer wrote:
He can destroy anyone in a challenge.

Skarbrand.. Nuff said...

No, Ghazghkull probably wins that.

Really? I think Skarbrand would whup him.. Or even a Chaos Lord with the Murder Sword could probably have a good crack at Ghazkull :S

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

wheresmypulitzer wrote:
He can destroy anyone in a challenge.

Skarbrand.. Nuff said...

No, Ghazghkull probably wins that.

Really? I think Skarbrand would whup him.. Or even a Chaos Lord with the Murder Sword could probably have a good crack at Ghazkull :S

Ghazghkull is one of the few ICs who can fight Abaddon and win semi-reliably. Abaddon wins, but just barely IIRC. At any rate, the Chaos Lord is going to die to ID and Skarbrand will bounce off Ghazzy's 2++.

There is a character that can beat Ghazghkull fairly easily, Hulked out Swarmlord on Warp Speed+Iron Arm, to add insult to injury he can have Catalyst or Endurance slapped on him too.

Hence why I said IC and not Character. Regardless, Ghazghkull would take a fair chunk out of Swarmy before going down.

Best overall HQ, including army wide buffs, I have to say Vulkan.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Best overall HQ, including army wide buffs, I have to say Vulkan.

If you build an entire army list around him, I'd absolutely agree that he is amazing, also, why hasn't there been a shout-out to Lysander while we're on the subject of SM HQs?

IMP its Azrael. Buffs an army to have all Ld 10 and can bring Termies AND Bikes as troops. 4 Attacks 4 Wounds, awesome relics to give a squad a good invuln. 2+ Sv . Chooses a DA trait, great shooting weapon and CC weapon

 TechmarineNic wrote:
IMP its Azrael. Buffs an army to have all Ld 10 and can bring Termies AND Bikes as troops. 4 Attacks 4 Wounds, awesome relics to give a squad a good invuln. 2+ Sv . Chooses a DA trait, great shooting weapon and CC weapon

Ahh Azrael - the best model to target with Deathlleaper's "It's After Me!" ability. Nothing like knocking an entire army to Leadership 7 for all Leadership tests...

 Happyjew wrote:

 TechmarineNic wrote:
IMP its Azrael. Buffs an army to have all Ld 10 and can bring Termies AND Bikes as troops. 4 Attacks 4 Wounds, awesome relics to give a squad a good invuln. 2+ Sv . Chooses a DA trait, great shooting weapon and CC weapon

Ahh Azrael - the best model to target with Deathlleaper's "It's After Me!" ability. Nothing like knocking an entire army to Leadership 7 for all Leadership tests...

To be fair though, who uses Deathleaper? I've never seen him played competitively..

 labmouse42 wrote:

anonymou5 wrote:
Slow and Purposeful means no going to ground

Really? Where did you read that? If in a rulebook, what page? If in a FAQ, which one?

Edit : I just double checked the main 40k FAQ and the rulebook and don't see anything in regards to this. That's fairly significant as it applies to plague bearers as well -- which is why I'm curious to know where you found that ruling.

he is fearless, that prevents GTG

Lord of change with grimoire any day. Most of the time has a 2+ rerollable save strikes with lots of ap2 attacks and can buff the army. What more could you ask for in a HQ?

 Exergy wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:

anonymou5 wrote:
Slow and Purposeful means no going to ground

Really? Where did you read that? If in a rulebook, what page? If in a FAQ, which one?

Edit : I just double checked the main 40k FAQ and the rulebook and don't see anything in regards to this. That's fairly significant as it applies to plague bearers as well -- which is why I'm curious to know where you found that ruling.

he is fearless, that prevents GTG

Daemonic Instability =/= Fearless and the Great Unclean One will duck if he wants to.

On topic, another shout out for the Lord of Change. L3 Divination support, a profile worthy of a Daemon Lord and S8 AP2 at initiative. If that's not enough, a Grimoire and Forewarning (See L3 Divination) gets you the ever lovely 2++ rerollable Invul. Flying so snapshots, Vector Strikes, genuine firepower applications, excellent Warlord table...

Also it may not be the best HQ ever by my Keeper of Secrets with grimoire does me proud! In the last game I played her in she killed 10 Kabalite warriors, an archon, a full wound fully kitted out nurgle lord, a squad of 5 terminators and 6 plague marines before finally dying. Utter class!

BaconUprising wrote:
Lord of change with grimoire any day. Most of the time has a 2+ rerollable save strikes with lots of ap2 attacks and can buff the army. What more could you ask for in a HQ?

How does he get a 2++ rerollable? I know grimoire adds +2 (?) to invuls and deamons of tzeetch get to reroll 1s, but wouldnt that just give him a 3++? Sorry I dont play chaos so im not as knowledgeable.

He is a Divination psyker and so has access to Forewarning for a 4++ Invul. Slap the Grimoire on for +2 to your rolls, and Daemon of Tzeentch lets you reroll the 1's.

Granted that Forewarning is not guaranteed but you have a good ~73% chance of rolling it up with Mastery 3.

Alternatively you can wait until the Warp Storm blows a 4++ across your army, but that one's not so reliable..

 pretre wrote:
Best HQ?

Celestine.

Best Warlord period and cheap as all hell. Plus she's pretty killy and synergizes great with any unit she can attach to.

If she had EW, the game would implode.

For the best part of a year everyone including our local Sisters player thought that she did have Eternal Warrior and played it so without really reading the rules.

I should've punked that bitch in one shot so many times that it's not even funny.

Iranna.

Gotcha, wasnt sure how you got that last +1 invul. Good to know.

 Billagio wrote:
Gotcha, wasnt sure how you got that last +1 invul. Good to know.

You do however get those instances where you fail to get forewarning, the grimoire trolls you and worsens your inv save and so does the warp storm...

BaconUprising wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
Gotcha, wasnt sure how you got that last +1 invul. Good to know.

You do however get those instances where you fail to get forewarning, the grimoire trolls you and worsens your inv save and so does the warp storm...

Not if you're running Fateweaver....

 Iranna wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Best HQ?

Celestine.

Best Warlord period and cheap as all hell. Plus she's pretty killy and synergizes great with any unit she can attach to.

If she had EW, the game would implode.

For the best part of a year everyone including our local Sisters player thought that she did have Eternal Warrior and played it so without really reading the rules.

I should've punked that bitch in one shot so many times that it's not even funny.

Iranna.

And then she gets up the next turn. Celestine is a reason unto herself to go second. 50% of the time she is a guaranteed objective denial tool even if she is dead.

Old Zogwort is da best.

Where did you go? silly squig commin to a HQ fight

anonymou5 wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
Gotcha, wasnt sure how you got that last +1 invul. Good to know.

You do however get those instances where you fail to get forewarning, the grimoire trolls you and worsens your inv save and so does the warp storm...

Not if you're running Fateweaver....

A LoC is far more effective for its points.

 Exergy wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:

anonymou5 wrote:
Slow and Purposeful means no going to ground

Really? Where did you read that? If in a rulebook, what page? If in a FAQ, which one?

Edit : I just double checked the main 40k FAQ and the rulebook and don't see anything in regards to this. That's fairly significant as it applies to plague bearers as well -- which is why I'm curious to know where you found that ruling.

he is fearless, that prevents GTG

On the other hand, 4++ guardsmen, .

BaconUprising wrote:

anonymou5 wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
Gotcha, wasnt sure how you got that last +1 invul. Good to know.

You do however get those instances where you fail to get forewarning, the grimoire trolls you and worsens your inv save and so does the warp storm...

Not if you're running Fateweaver....

A LoC is far more effective for its points.

My point was that if you were running FW, you wouldn't get trolled by the grimoire or the warp storm and could still build a 2++ LoC (I often run them together for this reason)

But there is no way that a LoC is more effective than FW, let alone "far" more. Fateweaver is worth 300 points solely for the two rerolls (making Grimoire and Grounding checks both 90% and turns the Warp Storm into a weapon), let alone everything else he brings.

I'm going to throw a vote out of left field here, I hope I don't look to ridiculous.

The ork warboss.

Soooo many options. He can get a bike, take biker nobz as troops for a death star that runs fast and hard, Mega armor, and meganobz on a trukk or battlewagon for a spearhead, and even with just ordinary nobz and painboys, can make a great way to hold an objective.

I'm not entirely crazy in my logic.

Kind of a fan of the tricked out GUO,myself , especially with Iron Arm...

Also ghazzy. Still a mean MOFO even with 6th.

 Exergy wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:

anonymou5 wrote:
Slow and Purposeful means no going to ground

Really? Where did you read that? If in a rulebook, what page? If in a FAQ, which one?

Edit : I just double checked the main 40k FAQ and the rulebook and don't see anything in regards to this. That's fairly significant as it applies to plague bearers as well -- which is why I'm curious to know where you found that ruling.

he is fearless, that prevents GTG

He used to be fearless, now no daemons are fearless as standard, so they can indeed go to ground

Swarm Lord eats everything. A monster in CC, instadeath WS9 , 4 psychic powers, biomancy up, 5 wounds, MC, a billion attacks, 're-roll your invulnerable sucker. On top of that he both supports his army and ails the enemy. 18" synapse messes up enemy psychic powers. Let's you add to your reserve roll, gives a unit within 12" a selection of 3 special rules, including preferred enemy, can have a retinue of T6 guards. And more. He's brutally effective, I just recently had him plow through deathwing knights, 3 tanks, a couple groups of marines, artillery, as well as characters, by himself, behind enemy lines. Never underestimate his might!!!!

Chaosnight1992 wrote:
18" synapse messes up enemy psychic powers.

Synapse is a different rule from Shadow in the Warp.
The Swarmlord's synapse range is 18", but his SitW range is still only 12".

Arson Fire wrote:

Chaosnight1992 wrote:
18" synapse messes up enemy psychic powers.

Synapse is a different rule from Shadow in the Warp.
The Swarmlord's synapse range is 18", but his SitW range is still only 12".

Holy pooh , my bad, your right! Haha I havent played my nids in a while, been messin with CSM, and BA haha

Autarch on bike with laughing god, banshee mask, fusion gun and fire saber. Billy badass right there

Crons have fantastic HQ; Destroyer Lords, Vanilla Overlords, Imo, Nemesor Zhandrekh.

Imotekh and Nemesor Zhandrek are a fantastic combo. Imo gives night fight protection, put him in a cron blob: they are now relentless. Add a 75 point Lord for Res Orb and Warscythe, and back them up by a Ghost Ark. Nemesor Zhandrek then gives this blob something like Stealth, and takes Night Vision from someone like Tau or DE. Nemesor can also sit in a blob backed up by a GA, while Vargard Obyron (who doesn't take an HQ spot if you take Nemesor) teleports around. Now instead of giving Imo Stealth, you could give Vargard's squad Tank Hunters. Consider that Land Raider dead. You have Longstrike in a Hammerhead? Have 40 shots with rerolls to 'wound'.

Anrakyr the Traveller can shoot one of your tanks weapons... Apocalypse game? I'll just shoot your forces with your own Titan.

Vanilla Overlords provide access to 5 Crypteks and 5 Lords for one HQ FOC slot. While not cost effective, Overlords are great. Upgrade them to get back up on a 4+ with D3 wounds, while having a 2+ and 3++ save.

However my overall favourite will be Nemesor and the Vargard Obyron bodyguard 'upgrade'. 345 points for total Badassery. Lets not forget that Vargard can get up to 10 S7 (S8 if you use Nemesor to give him Furious Charge) AP 2 attacks.

NECRONS YEA!

To say St. Celestine earns her points back is a grotesque understatement. She's a beast and if used with strategy in mind, she can hold up whole units, take out vehicles, or even take down other super tough characters. It might take her a few turns and a few deaths, but eventually she could kill almost anyone. And only 115 points? Its the only thing in the SOB codex that isn't over priced. For absolute annoyance and hindrance factor, she's top dog.