Juan Diaz has left GW and is now working for Zenit Miniatures in Spain.

From the Kensei Indiegogo campaign:

Zenit Miniatures wrote:The sculptor Juan Diaz will work for us, making some of our new miniatures for Kensei and Nemesis. He will also do some of the creatures of the indiegogo campaign. Thanks to all of you!

Juan Diaz (on the right):

Here his personal statement as translated by a friend:
http://www.spanish-team.com/foro/viewtopic.php?p=308707#308707

Juan Diaz wrote:Hello

Now it’s official, today I have stopped working for GW . After 16 years of hard struggle for the Emperor, I’ve decided to try new horizons. Hatsetsut (nickname of his wife/girlfriend) and me will soldier on at Tiny Tales Studio (their own brand), and Zenit / Kensei gets a new sculptor. Thais (again, his w/GF) and me are thinking about giving sculpting courses in the future. (...)

There are still some of my Citadel models due to be released, the Games Day exclusive model being one of them. I hope you’ll like them.

Lots of love to all whom have followed my work in this company, especially to Hatsetsut for being an advisory/sculptor “behind the scene”, and without her help many of the models from recent years wouldn't be what they have become.

The sculptor formerly known as “Juan Díaz”

(annotations added in italics)

Maybe Zenit Miniatures has some use for cute scantly clad dancing female daemons with claws

There was a time I knew the whole GW sculpting team like the back of my hand. Not personally of course, but I could tell who did any given miniature at a glance.

But that was 10 years ago. Now I'm surprised Juan still worked for them up until now.

GW's loss is everyone else's gain. Hopefully, he'll start doing a bit of freelance and start spreading his talent around

Definitely a big loss, I thought he was one of their best sculptors.

Fantastic sculptor. Sorry to see him leave GW but look forward to what he does next.

Good luck, Mr Diaz.

Is there a particular reason his fiancee's nickname is of an Ancient Egyptian despot/ruler?

It truly is GW's loss.

I hope we see him go on to do a similar thing to Studio McVey, he has the talent to add some excellent models to the community.

So glad he left GW! I haven't wanted to buy anything of theirs for a while except for things he did. Now I am safe on that front!

Of course it means Zenit will once again threaten my wallet's integrity

I was happy to hear this news, I backed the Kensei project and I'm sure it will turn out great.

I've never really followed individual sculptors at GW, what are some of his models?

I wasn't even aware he still worked with them. Then again, maybe we can get some third party not-Daemonettes from Diaz.

Any hopes of decent female models from GW have just severely diminished it seems.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I've never really followed individual sculptors at GW, what are some of his models?

For plastic kits, its often multiple sculptors. He worked on Hellions and Scourges, for example, but not exclusively him. He also did a lot of the old (now Finecast) Eldar Aspect Warriors (Banshees, Fire Dragons, Scorpions) back in the day.

Here are some characters that seem to be his work alone.

Wow yes.. those are some cracking sculpts..

Bad news for GW I suppose (they all leave in the end though.. except for Jervis! ) although at least he is staying in the industry, and fans of his work will be able to get it from elsewhere.

He likes humans with their mouths open

I am quite shocked with the news, I would think they would keep him with any means necessary.

So that leaves only Jes in GW.....


Ok, I do not want him to leave from his really great position, but I can only imagine what Jes could do outside GW.

The fact that a spanish company is able to pull in some talent when our economy is doing the exact opposite speaks volumes of Zenit Miniatures. I wish the best for Diaz in his new endeavor

 Zweischneid wrote:


For plastic kits, its often multiple sculptors. He worked on Hellions and Scourges, for example, but not exclusively him. He also did a lot of the old (now Finecast) Eldar Aspect Warriors (Banshees, Fire Dragons, Scorpions) back in the day.

You sure about that? I thought they were still using all 2nd Edition Goodwin sculpts.

~Eric

 Zweischneid wrote:

Spoiler:

This is my favorite GW model.

Best of luck to him and his family.

That is a real loss to GW.The termie chaplain is one of the most iconic mini's i have ever seen and was the first mini i ever purchased.As for colonel Straken well Catachans are ace imo.
I wonder If seb or a couple of the others will be able to fill Juans mighty big shoes.

He did some fabulous work no doubt about it. Sorry to see him go, but GW has been a revolving door of employee's over the past few years.

To be fair it's always been this way.. not just sculptors, but artists, games-makers, even authors.

Eventually bigger $ or more creative freedoms lure them away, although we shouldn't discount that (like the gaming stores themselves) GW has always served as a great gateway into the industry for a lot of talented people.

 oni wrote:
GW has been a revolving door of employee's over the past few years.

It also seems that it's becoming much harder to get hired by GW as a sculptor, but that might be just the experience a couple of sculptors I know had. I know what your going to say, that they weren't good enough, but they seemed to be good enough for companies like PP and others.

I hesitate to name them since I don't want to spoil their chances if they ever reapply at GW, or any other company, but from their description they felt like they were getting jerked around by a recruiter and never even got to talk to someone at the studio level.

 Pacific wrote:
GW has always served as a great gateway into the industry for a lot of talented people.

Sort of like Saturday Night Live. Not as good as the rest of the industry, but it's mainstream and everybody knows about it.

 prplehippo wrote:
I hesitate to name them since I don't want to spoil their chances if they ever reapply at GW, or any other company, but from their description they felt like they were getting jerked around by a recruiter and never even got to talk to someone at the studio level.

This is the chosen modus operandi for pretty much all big companies that deal in creative aspects, with very few exceptions. I bounced off HR people after getting a direct invite from a creative director to discuss a project or employment multiple times. Okay, once the HR person turned out to be pretty awesome, but more often than not it's some penpusher with no idea. Just the way of things...

 Taarnak wrote:


You sure about that? I thought they were still using all 2nd Edition Goodwin sculpts.

~Eric

2006 releases by Games Workshop. "JD" is Juan Diaz. "JG" is Goodwin. A few others as well.

December 2006
*Eldar - Wraithlord (JG & MF)
*Eldar - Howling Banshees (JD)
*Eldar - Fire Dragons (JD)
*Eldar - Autarch (JG)

November 2006: Eldar (4th edition) (PK)
*Eldar - War Walkers (JG & MF)
*Eldar - Dire Avengers (MH)
*Eldar - Prince Yriel (JG)
*Eldar - Autarch (JG)
*Eldar - Farseers (3) (MF)
*Eldar - Striking Scorpions (JD)
*Eldar - Dark Reapers (MH)
*Eldar - Ranger (MF)
*Eldar - Bonesinger

2006 Aspect Warriors and the old 2nd Edition stuff is close. So arguably they are JG sculpts, as JD stuck close to the original. But GW is not actually using the old sculpts.

Fire Dragons for example are a bit beefier since 2006, have a cloth-thing between their legs etc.. . Scorpions are also notably different. All have more detail now, etc...

Eldar sculpts are old. But they are not THAT old.

Old Fire Dragons and Scorpions


"New" Fire Dragons


"New" Scorpions

Well that's a shame he's sculpted some of my favourite pieces in the GW line including most of my slaanesh army, as has been mentioned I'm not holding out high hopes for any decent female sculpts from GW now. Never heard of the company he's now moving too so I'll have to see what he makes for them now I guess.

 Zweischneid wrote:

A whole bunch of useful information.

Interesting. Thanks for taking the time to dig all that up. I didn't realize that much had been redone. Which, I suppose, is a testament to Mr. Diaz's skill.

~Eric

There have actually been two different Aspect releases since the 2nd Ed Jes sculpts.

There was a set released with the 3rd edition codex, that was mostly pretty bad. These were amongst Diaz's first sculpts with GW, done during his 'training' period with Gary Morley and as a result they looked so much like Gary Morley odd-week sculpts that most people thought they were done by him instead. (Morley had a bit of a hit-and-miss track record with his sculpts... he would turn out something absolutely spectacular, and then the next sculpt would be something really nasty, and he had a fondness for peculiar, awkward poses, which was really evident in the first Diaz Aspects).

Pretty much everything Diaz sculpted after that has been awesome.

 Ignatius-Grulgor wrote:
Never heard of the company he's now moving too so I'll have to see what he makes for them now I guess.

It is this company from Spain: http://www.zenitminiatures.es/
They make two tabletop games.
Nemesis is a Fantasy skirmish game with unusual teams. http://nemesis.zenitminiatures.es/en/
(Orphans on stilts faction)


Kensei is a 28mm historical Japan tabletop http://kensei.zenitminiatures.es/en/
Recently, an Indiegogo campaign ended to add Fantasy monsters to Kensei. http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/kensei-fantasy-creatures--2





Juan Diaz will work on both games, but in the near future all the new Kensei monsters will certainly be the focus of the company and Juan.

Did Juan Diaz do work for Avatars of War?

Or am I getting him mixed up with another Spaniard?

The Spanish and French both have some great sculptors.

Avatars of War was founded by a Spanish ex-GW sculptor, Felix Paniagua (who sculpted some of the best Trollslayers, then started with trollslayers in his own company). Juan Diaz never sculpted for them.

Avatars of War is Felix Paniagua.

Doesn't bode well for GW, losing their best sculptor. Jes is still the master but he doesn't really sculpt anymore. Maybe he'll start again.

Nocturnus wrote:
Doesn't bode well for GW, losing their best sculptor. Jes is still the master but he doesn't really sculpt anymore. Maybe he'll start again.

I thought he designed most of the new Dark Eldar range?

Designers don't always sculpt as well. It's more to do with coming up with the overall themes and nailing down how units will look in concept art... also things like how the models will actually fit together for certain kits, I still remember all the excitement when Jes' Vyper jetbike was the first GW kit with *fully movable parts*! :O

These themes then get sent off to the sculptors for them to "bring them to life".

 prplehippo wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:
Doesn't bode well for GW, losing their best sculptor. Jes is still the master but he doesn't really sculpt anymore. Maybe he'll start again.

I thought he designed most of the new Dark Eldar range?

Jes Goodwin designed most the Dark Eldar range. Diaz sculpted a large portion of it. Sad to see Diaz go, but feel that GW's designs as of recent have been far to timid and unimaginative of recent to take advantage of his talents. Personally think the Dark Eldar release was the last release to really pull out all the stops. But then it looks like most designs since are more done/inspired by John Blanche and not Jes Goodwin.

That being said, have not been too impressed with Zenit's concept art either and has never been to my liking. Interested to see what he does for them. Will be well done no doubt, but don't think it will grab me. More intrigued by this personal line he will be producing. Curious to see what work he likes to do by himself and not directed by others.

 Super Ready wrote:
Designers don't always sculpt as well. It's more to do with coming up with the overall themes and nailing down how units will look in concept art... also things like how the models will actually fit together for certain kits, I still remember all the excitement when Jes' Vyper jetbike was the first GW kit with *fully movable parts*! :O

These themes then get sent off to the sculptors for them to "bring them to life".

Exactly. Jes is the brains behind all of their good stuff. He just doesn't sculpt much. His concept art is what he does mostly now.

Nocturnus wrote:


Exactly. Jes is the brains behind all of their good stuff. He just doesn't sculpt much. His concept art is what he does mostly now.

I'm not sure he is even allowed to do that much these days. The Helldrake and the Wraithknight both seemed to have only a single rough sketch. He normally seemed to have far more detailed design art on older works. Think he is being forced to produce more figures with less art/thought which is sad. Have his Coffee Table book and always hoped there would be a second one.

Nocturnus wrote:
Doesn't bode well for GW, losing their best sculptor. Jes is still the master but he doesn't really sculpt anymore. Maybe he'll start again.

Yep, I agree. GW has lost a great deal of talent over the years from the design studio. It's questionable how much of an impact rules have on retail sales (Not that it doesn't--just what impact it is).

However, there is no doubt the aesthetic of a model affects sales of said model---and Juan was (IMO) their best. What a loss for GW.

So who's still sculpting for GW?

I know they have more digital sculptors now, but who are the traditional sculptors in the studio?

Regular, aka traditional, sculpting in clay is a dying art and for a good reason.

A digital 3D image can easily be transferred to machines that produce the molds. That image is less likely to have odd imperfections that show up later and is certainly much easier to reproduce consistent molds over time without worrying about a "master" sculpt.

I do wish Juan well; however, if GW's intent is to go full digital (as they should be doing) then if he doesn't have CAD skills he was probably in a dead in job anyway. Quite frankly when I got into this hobby a few years ago I was surprised that they weren't already doing CAD for everything.

 Super Ready wrote:
, I still remember all the excitement when Jes' Vyper jetbike was the first GW kit with *fully movable parts*! :O

It wasn't, though.

The original Predator and Land Raider had movable sponsons and turrets. And they predate the Vyper considerably.

clively wrote:
Regular, aka traditional, sculpting in clay is a dying art and for a good reason.

It really isn't and there is no reason it should. You are either misinformed or talking out your ass.

clively wrote:

A digital 3D image can easily be transferred to machines that produce the molds. That image is less likely to have odd imperfections that show up later and is certainly much easier to reproduce consistent molds over time without worrying about a "master" sculpt.

A mold can be tooled directly from the 3d file, true. There are few toolmakers who work in miniatures that do that, from what I've seen. Wargames Factory is the only one I've heard of doing it so far for certain. GW might, but I've not had any confirmation of that.

It isn't a magic "Good Model" button, in either case. Far from it. The sculptor needs to be able to use the software effectively, sculpt his models so that they are workable at wargaming scales (which is a good deal trickier than it sounds), then he needs to be aware of what will and will not work in either a 3d print, or tooled directly into a steel mold (two very different beasts).

If you are really interested, I suggest you investigate it more.

~Eric

Nocturnus wrote:
Doesn't bode well for GW, losing their best sculptor. Jes is still the master but he doesn't really sculpt anymore. Maybe he'll start again.

Aaragorn Marks would like to speak to you.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Is there a particular reason his fiancee's nickname is of an Ancient Egyptian despot/ruler?

Well his name on the spanish forum is senor Massage, so i guess he is giving here a lot of "foot" massages

Looking forward to releases from his own company!

 cincydooley wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:
Doesn't bode well for GW, losing their best sculptor. Jes is still the master but he doesn't really sculpt anymore. Maybe he'll start again.

Aaragorn Marks would like to speak to you.

Any models he made for GW?

 Taarnak wrote:
A mold can be tooled directly from the 3d file, true. There are few toolmakers who work in miniatures that do that, from what I've seen. Wargames Factory is the only one I've heard of doing it so far for certain. GW might, but I've not had any confirmation of that.

The last I recall the GW studio saying about it, they were using 3D modelling to design the master models, but were printing them for final tweaking and still making the moulds the old fashioned way.

That may have changed by now, though. Cutting the mould directly from the 3D file would certainly be a time-saver.

Yes, but requires specialized personnel and software, on the other hand GWs recent sprews are way to cluttered to be done the old way so some computer assistance at least is used.

 insaniak wrote:

The last I recall the GW studio saying about it, they were using 3D modelling to design the master models, but were printing them for final tweaking and still making the moulds the old fashioned way.

That may have changed by now, though. Cutting the mould directly from the 3D file would certainly be a time-saver.

It's pretty obvious from how well the newest kits go together that they're tooling direct. Have been since the Necrosphynx at least, probably earlier.

 Taarnak wrote:

clively wrote:
Regular, aka traditional, sculpting in clay is a dying art and for a good reason.

It really isn't and there is no reason it should. You are either misinformed or talking out your ass.


~Eric

I was about to reply to clively but then I decided to not waste my time... but your post sums up perfectly what I had in mind...

 insaniak wrote:

 Taarnak wrote:
A mold can be tooled directly from the 3d file, true. There are few toolmakers who work in miniatures that do that, from what I've seen. Wargames Factory is the only one I've heard of doing it so far for certain. GW might, but I've not had any confirmation of that.

The last I recall the GW studio saying about it, they were using 3D modelling to design the master models, but were printing them for final tweaking and still making the moulds the old fashioned way.

That may have changed by now, though. Cutting the mould directly from the 3D file would certainly be a time-saver.

Maybe they don't have tooling with enough precision to do that or maybe it's too costly or time consuming to do the CAM to do it like that.

clively wrote:
Regular, aka traditional, sculpting in clay is a dying art and for a good reason.

A digital 3D image can easily be transferred to machines that produce the molds. That image is less likely to have odd imperfections that show up later and is certainly much easier to reproduce consistent molds over time without worrying about a "master" sculpt.

I do wish Juan well; however, if GW's intent is to go full digital (as they should be doing) then if he doesn't have CAD skills he was probably in a dead in job anyway. Quite frankly when I got into this hobby a few years ago I was surprised that they weren't already doing CAD for everything.

I think it's important not to confuse 'cheaper' with 'better'. Corvus Belli's Infinity miniatures are, what many would argue, some of the most detailed sculpts in the industry. With I believe one exception (a new boxset), their entire range is still sculpted using conventional methods.

Believe Studio McVey and the Kingdom Death ranges also?

The new TAGs are digitally sculpted and the new weapons IIRC are prototyped at digital level in order to have consistency among the sculpts but otherwise pure old fashion goodness.

Each sculpting type has its place in the world, its advantages and disadvantages and as always both can be used together for better results.

Some more background, as gathered from this Spanish forum: http://www.spanish-team.com/foro/
He said he had the feeling something would die inside, if he had worked much longer for GW. He thought of leaving GW for 2 years. Seems there is indeed more control on what sculptors and artists can do at GW, leading to more standardized products and harming creativity.

This is what I heard from someone reading it and not a literal translation. Anyone can check his posts under the name "Señor Massage" there. This thread especially: http://www.spanish-team.com/foro/viewtopic.php?t=16945 . They are in Spanish though.

 Pacific wrote:

clively wrote:
Regular, aka traditional, sculpting in clay is a dying art and for a good reason.

A digital 3D image can easily be transferred to machines that produce the molds. That image is less likely to have odd imperfections that show up later and is certainly much easier to reproduce consistent molds over time without worrying about a "master" sculpt.

I do wish Juan well; however, if GW's intent is to go full digital (as they should be doing) then if he doesn't have CAD skills he was probably in a dead in job anyway. Quite frankly when I got into this hobby a few years ago I was surprised that they weren't already doing CAD for everything.

I think it's important not to confuse 'cheaper' with 'better'. Corvus Belli's Infinity miniatures are, what many would argue, some of the most detailed sculpts in the industry. With I believe one exception (a new boxset), their entire range is still sculpted using conventional methods.

Believe Studio McVey and the Kingdom Death ranges also?

A fair amount of the kingdom death models are digitally sculpted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Some more background, as gathered from this Spanish forum: http://www.spanish-team.com/foro/
He said he had the feeling something would die inside, if he had worked much longer for GW. He thought of leaving GW for 2 years. Seems there is indeed more control on what sculptors and artists can do at GW, leading to more standardized products and harming creativity.

This is what I heard from someone reading it and not a literal translation. Anyone can check his posts under the name "Señor Massage" there. This thread especially: http://www.spanish-team.com/foro/viewtopic.php?t=16945 . They are in Spanish though.

Is this really a surprise? But the trade off is, of course, job security and a salaried job.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Some more background, as gathered from this Spanish forum: http://www.spanish-team.com/foro/
He said he had the feeling something would die inside, if he had worked much longer for GW. He thought of leaving GW for 2 years. Seems there is indeed more control on what sculptors and artists can do at GW, leading to more standardized products and harming creativity.

This is what I heard from someone reading it and not a literal translation. Anyone can check his posts under the name "Señor Massage" there. This thread especially: http://www.spanish-team.com/foro/viewtopic.php?t=16945 . They are in Spanish though.

Is this really a surprise? But the trade off is, of course, job security and a salaried job.

Job security still exists? I digress.
Yes, making a living of just sculpting can be a very complicated thing specially if you are looking for a certain level of life. I think its more aimed for those with a freelancer spirit and less for those looking for permanent jobs.

Asking an artist to sell artistic freedom for a 9-5 job is not a good idea. Or as Bryan Ansell said to Rick Priestley about Games Workshop's design studio:

Rick Priestley wrote:Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there!

That's why we now get so many copypaste sculpts, so many "just add skulls and candles to the storm talon", so many uninspired toy-like giant models. Because lawyers and managers try to tell artists how proper artistic work functions. Now compare the skullmower (July apocalypse release) to the creative explosion of the Raging Heroes kickstarter and you see a difference.

He maybe was the only sculptor at GW to make "realistic" models( well...realistic has can be).

Every single of the models he made are Real master pieces, would loved to see him do a new Kharn or Abby really...

 Kroothawk wrote:
Asking an artist to sell artistic freedom for a 9-5 job is not a good idea. Or as Bryan Ansell said to Rick Priestley about Games Workshop's design studio:

Rick Priestley wrote:Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there!

That's why we now get so many copypaste sculpts, so many "just add skulls and candles to the storm talon", so many uninspired toy-like giant models. Because lawyers and managers try to tell artists how proper artistic work functions. Now compare the skullmower (July apocalypse release) to the creative explosion of the Raging Heroes kickstarter and you see a difference.

That's great and all. But having some business infrastructure and business acumen ensures debacles like Gates of Anteres don't happy.

And despite being very excited about the Raging Heroes stuff, I'll reserve my judgement until everything is fulfilled in a timely fashion. Their inability to properly update a simple KS page doesn't exactly bode well....

 Kroothawk wrote:
Asking an artist to sell artistic freedom for a 9-5 job is not a good idea. Or as Bryan Ansell said to Rick Priestley about Games Workshop's design studio:

Rick Priestley wrote:Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there!

That's why we now get so many copypaste sculpts, so many "just add skulls and candles to the storm talon", so many uninspired toy-like giant models. Because lawyers and managers try to tell artists how proper artistic work functions.

Isn't that part of the contract they sign in the first place? I remember something along the lines " anything you sculpt, even not GW related etc is automatically GW property"??
I can only imagine the nightmare to work restrained in such a way.

 cincydooley wrote:
That's great and all. But having some business infrastructure and business acumen ensures debacles like Gates of Anteres don't happy.

At GW, managers fail at their job (like growing business by standard marketing strategies) AND keep the creative staff from doing their job as well. And it is past midnight at Raging Heroes office, so blaming them for sleeping at night is a bit unfair.

Managers failing, eh?

You're like, entitled to your opinion man.

The rich get richer. Love just about every single sculpt Zenit has put out

 NAVARRO wrote:
I remember something along the lines " anything you sculpt, even not GW related etc is automatically GW property"??

Well, that's totally illegal so could be true considering GW legal practices. Sort of a pre-emptive C&D/repossession verdict.

@HMV: I assume that clause is only valid for the duration of the contract.

I've seen companies outside the miniature wargaming industry enforce similar clauses to prevent their creative personnel from freelancing. I don't know the technicalities, but sounds legal to me.

Of course, in the current environment, it also makes working for such a company quite an unattractive prospect.

Yeah, I've heard of similar constrictions on 'creative' contracts. Helps prevent people from walking off with a portfolio they have developed on company time and claiming that it's all their own private work.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
I remember something along the lines " anything you sculpt, even not GW related etc is automatically GW property"??

Well, that's totally illegal so could be true considering GW legal practices. Sort of a pre-emptive C&D/repossession verdict.

Is it? I know at every company I have worked at as part of being hired, had to sign an agreement that any patentable ideas I develop are property of the company. I know similar contracts exist for friends that work in the creative fields.

Alessio Cavatore mentioned in interviews that GW had first right to publish any game ideas he came up. They passed on Loka and that is why he was able to publish it independently. It is likely such a contract exists with sculptors as well.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
I remember something along the lines " anything you sculpt, even not GW related etc is automatically GW property"??

Well, that's totally illegal so could be true considering GW legal practices. Sort of a pre-emptive C&D/repossession verdict.

That's nonsense: The Perry Twins have a complete company producing non-GW miniatures.
UK law allows people to give all their copyright to someone else though, while in German law you always keep copyright on your own creations no matter what (gave the killing blow to the German 40k fan movie).

 Kroothawk wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
I remember something along the lines " anything you sculpt, even not GW related etc is automatically GW property"??

Well, that's totally illegal so could be true considering GW legal practices. Sort of a pre-emptive C&D/repossession verdict.

That's nonsense: The Perry Twins have a complete company producing non-GW miniatures.
UK law allows people to give all their copyright to someone else though, while in German law you always keep copyright on your own creations no matter what (gave the killing blow to the German 40k fan movie).

You never know how individual employment contracts might work. The Perrys have been at GW for a hell of a long time, so I wouldn't be surprised if their contracts, (like Blanche's) were very differently worded and structured when compared to newer employees. We know that Rick Priestly had a non-compete clause in his contract after he left, which is why he could only work on things like Black Powder, Bolt Action, etc for a long time. The Perry's business is selling historical figures to historical gamers.

 Kroothawk wrote:

That's why we now get so many copypaste sculpts, so many "just add skulls and candles to the storm talon"....

I remember 25+ years old Citadel catalogues with C&P sculpts - slight alterations to heads, spears etc. And 'Just Add Skulls' is hardly new to the Imperium/Chaos dynamic.

So, I don't think it is fair to blame current management for that. However, I don't think 3-D sculpting is helping.

Some of their best models ever (even to this day, IMO) are C&P of other models. Look at Jes' old-school chaos champions for example.

There are far less C+P sculpts now than there used to be in my experience!

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
@HMV: I assume that clause is only valid for the duration of the contract.

I've seen companies outside the miniature wargaming industry enforce similar clauses to prevent their creative personnel from freelancing. I don't know the technicalities, but sounds legal to me.

Of course, in the current environment, it also makes working for such a company quite an unattractive prospect.

Those kinds of contracts are almost universal. A good number will allow outside work with non-competing companies when approved by a manager, but this is common, and legal, as part of the normal "work for hire" contract. There are plenty, more heinous rights grabs going on within the world of IP than this, and plenty of companies who are even more rapacious than GW - for instance, Google, who have pushed a huge rights land grab in the UK, known as Orphan Rights, where they get to make money from, say, the photos you might post online.

The clause about owning all sculpts/game design whilst working for GW even applied to retail staff.

 Azazelx wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
I remember something along the lines " anything you sculpt, even not GW related etc is automatically GW property"??

Well, that's totally illegal so could be true considering GW legal practices. Sort of a pre-emptive C&D/repossession verdict.

That's nonsense: The Perry Twins have a complete company producing non-GW miniatures.
UK law allows people to give all their copyright to someone else though, while in German law you always keep copyright on your own creations no matter what (gave the killing blow to the German 40k fan movie).

You never know how individual employment contracts might work. The Perrys have been at GW for a hell of a long time, so I wouldn't be surprised if their contracts, (like Blanche's) were very differently worded and structured when compared to newer employees. We know that Rick Priestly had a non-compete clause in his contract after he left, which is why he could only work on things like Black Powder, Bolt Action, etc for a long time. The Perry's business is selling historical figures to historical gamers.

Word on the street was at the time the Perry twins said: "Let us do our sidebusiness or we leave."

Makes perfect sense, and people need to remember, the old guard (Perrys, Jes, the Morrisons, Blanche) were the cornerstone of the company in so many ways. They had (and still have) a lot more "pull" then the more recent hires. Marauder miniatures were the Morrison's own line for a few years, but got folded back in with GW proper, so their contracts/personal IP rights obviously changed way back when. It's also why you don't see the Perrys putting out sci-fi or fantasy figures, and it's hardcore historical all the time within their own range.

silent25 wrote:
Is it? I know at every company I have worked at as part of being hired, had to sign an agreement that any patentable ideas I develop are property of the company. I know similar contracts exist for friends that work in the creative fields.

Those clauses are closely tied to non competition rules, but there is no way your company can blanket claim your IP* unless you a) bring it up within the company, b) try to market it outside of the company without relevant contractual provisions and/or using company IP.


*except when they do it and you're too poor to challenge that.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Asking an artist to sell artistic freedom for a 9-5 job is not a good idea. Or as Bryan Ansell said to Rick Priestley about Games Workshop's design studio:

Rick Priestley wrote:Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there!

That's why we now get so many copypaste sculpts, so many "just add skulls and candles to the storm talon", so many uninspired toy-like giant models. Because lawyers and managers try to tell artists how proper artistic work functions. Now compare the skullmower (July apocalypse release) to the creative explosion of the Raging Heroes kickstarter and you see a difference.

As a creative professional, I have no idea what you're going on about here.

Of course working for GW or any company stifles personal creativity. That's because you're working for them and receiving various types of compensation for it -- benefits, a healthy salary, paid vacation, etc. That's the entire point.
If you want to work without limits, you go into business for yourself. Another option is to do what Juan seems to be doing and going to a smaller shop where you can presumably have much more influence over your parameters, etc. But note that's not perfect freedom either.

I think -- as is commonplace around here -- some of you are making this to be about GW when it's about a creative pro who was ready for a change and more personal growth. And really, if working for GW is undesirable, then why do the creatives there stay at the company so freakin' long? Did someone say he was there for 15 years? That's a damn eternity, especially for creatives and their wandering eyes/minds, lol.

 gorgon wrote:
Of course working for GW or any company stifles personal creativity. That's because you're working for them and receiving various types of compensation for it -- benefits, a healthy salary, paid vacation, etc. That's the entire point.
If you want to work without limits, you go into business for yourself. Another option is to do what Juan seems to be doing and going to a smaller shop where you can presumably have much more influence over your parameters, etc. But note that's not perfect freedom either.

I think -- as is commonplace around here -- some of you are making this to be about GW when it's about a creative pro who was ready for a change and more personal growth. And really, if working for GW is undesirable, then why do the creatives there stay at the company so freakin' long? Did someone say he was there for 15 years? That's a damn eternity, especially for creatives and their wandering eyes/minds, lol.

GW isn't alone in this, PP (and probably several other companies) does the same thing to their sculptors. I mention PP specifically since I know several of the sculptors there and we've had this conversation before. The sculptors job is to sculpt the model that was already concepted and on their desk, they have little input in the design or look of the model unless there is a serious problem.

If there was an issue with the pose interfering with detail on the model or it just looks "weird" like armor plates not matching up properly due to the pose, since 2D drawings cannot accurately portray a 3D sculpt, the sculptor can give recommendations to fix it but otherwise has no real say in the rest of the design and have been told at times "That's not their job and to stay out of it".

Big loss. All hail the Hypno Toad

 His Master's Voice wrote:

silent25 wrote:
Is it? I know at every company I have worked at as part of being hired, had to sign an agreement that any patentable ideas I develop are property of the company. I know similar contracts exist for friends that work in the creative fields.

Those clauses are closely tied to non competition rules, but there is no way your company can blanket claim your IP* unless you a) bring it up within the company, b) try to market it outside of the company without relevant contractual provisions and/or using company IP.


*except when they do it and you're too poor to challenge that.

Except that GW is a miniature company and any miniatures a sculptor would try to sell miniatures on the side would fall under the non-competition clause.

The whole Bratz vs. Mattel case is a good example of companies being able to claim the IP of an employee. While MGA won on appeal, but only because the court felt Mattel's contract with the creator didn't contain sufficient language to cover the IP claim. Not because claiming IP's of employees is illegal.

silent25 wrote:
Except that GW is a miniature company and any miniatures a sculptor would try to sell miniatures on the side would fall under the non-competition clause.

Preventing an employee from marketing products is not the same as claiming copyright on very creation of said employee.

A company trying to lay claim to employee IP has to prove that said IP either directly contains IP owned by the employer or was created as a direct derivative of that IP. Going back to GW, any rule that states "everything you sculpt belongs to us" is hogwash and nothing more.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

silent25 wrote:
Except that GW is a miniature company and any miniatures a sculptor would try to sell miniatures on the side would fall under the non-competition clause.

Preventing an employee from marketing products is not the same as claiming copyright on very creation of said employee.

A company trying to lay claim to employee IP has to prove that said IP either directly contains IP owned by the employer or was created as a direct derivative of that IP. Going back to GW, any rule that states "everything you sculpt belongs to us" is hogwash and nothing more.

That's true - except where a contract says otherwise, which is increasingly the case. It's very common for creative contracts to try and claim IP generated outside of work hours, but within the term of employment.

Yeah, I imagine GW need the Perry's more than they need them. There's always going to be work for people with that talent and reputation.

On the topic of old GW staff. What happened to Aly and Trish Morrison?

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
It's very common for creative contracts to try and claim IP generated outside of work hours, but within the term of employment.

Seriously? Within EU? When did that practice start?

And more importantly, how is that even enforceable, not to mention in line with existing creative copyright laws?

Sad but true. Started at least 10 years ago, common in publishing and ad agencies.

With similar copyright disputes we've found German law in particular is much better, but these kinds of copyright land grabs are increasingly common in the UK (and the US).

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Yeah, I imagine GW need the Perry's more than they need them. There's always going to be work for people with that talent and reputation.

On the topic of old GW staff. What happened to Aly and Trish Morrison?

Aly and Trish still work for GW but they got divorced so look for Trish Carden, she had a fish monster thing on display at the Forge World open day. I wasn't aware that the Perry's were still working full time for GW. I think the only thing they do now is stuff relating to the Hobbit / LotR and I gather that that is because Peter Jackson is a fan. I'd be very intrigued about the contract on that work.

As for Juan, if you look at some of the lovely sculpts he's done and the original concept by Jes you'll notice there is very little change compared to a while back when the sculpts were adapted more as they went. Also I'd be curious about how much the older sculptors want to get involved with the CAD side of things. I know Aly did some work on the Goblin king's throne from the Hobbit box and helped with the CAD translation of the Perry Sculpts. Check out the Design Studio article in the back of December 2012 edition of White Dwarf for more on that (and Goblin poo).

Again it's common in University research contracts dating back 10-12 years in the UK

They have the absolute right to take forward any idea I come up with while I work for them though if they took one of my independent ideas(ie not related to the project I was paid to do) I would get a cut of whatever money it made (30-50% if I remember right).

They could also decide they didn't want the idea, if so I could then shop it around elsewhere.

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
Sad but true. Started at least 10 years ago, common in publishing and ad agencies.

With similar copyright disputes we've found German law in particular is much better, but these kinds of copyright land grabs are increasingly common in the UK (and the US).

Damn, it looks like I managed to go through three different creative jobs without signing away anything even remotely like that. And in an industry that's known to be anal about this stuff...

Feth this, I'm staying freelance.

I thought those sorts of contracts are to prevent you using company resources to develop things for personal gain. Something you develop entirely independently of them wouldn't be covered, though you might have to prove that. Of course if it's in a closely related field it might be hard to argue that your experience and knowledge gained from that company didn't contribute to you developing something in your own time for your own benefit.

 Zweischneid wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I've never really followed individual sculptors at GW, what are some of his models?

For plastic kits, its often multiple sculptors. He worked on Hellions and Scourges, for example, but not exclusively him. He also did a lot of the old (now Finecast) Eldar Aspect Warriors (Banshees, Fire Dragons, Scorpions) back in the day.

Here are some characters that seem to be his work alone.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

So basically most of the good models GW makes...

 His Master's Voice wrote:


Damn, it looks like I managed to go through three different creative jobs without signing away anything even remotely like that. And in an industry that's known to be anal about this stuff...

Feth this, I'm staying freelance.

yup, but as you mentioned you worked freelance, not as a full time employee. That's totally different story.

Looks like a great time to get back into Oriental Fantasy stuff. His work so far on the new company is stunning, and if that's the new cool, count me in.

Zenit has some pretty good looking figures, I especially am looking hard at those Ninja guys they have.

Still, it is not a good idea to alienate your customers and then your creative staff. It will eventually lead to models like this that don't sell:

 Przemas wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:


Damn, it looks like I managed to go through three different creative jobs without signing away anything even remotely like that. And in an industry that's known to be anal about this stuff...

Feth this, I'm staying freelance.

yup, but as you mentioned you worked freelance, not as a full time employee. That's totally different story.

Eh, no, those were full time jobs.

i would'nt say that the khornemower wont sell, alot of the older guys at my flgs who really enjoyed epic are planning to pic one up just for nostalgia. Will it sell in the truck loads? well we will have to see just how silly they make it rule wise, not everyone enjoys converting and will deal with this transformer that malfunctioned halfway through transforming if it means they get a competitive piece

On topic this is sad to hear as he was one of my favorites at GW aswell. It seems the CEO stepping down was the start of an avalanche

My job claims any writings or work that I come up with during weekdays, or on "their" equipment. Such as the Laptop I have to lease from them since they're too cheap to actually supply laptops to their employees, and presumably, anything I show to a colleague via their email system.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And yeah, that Khorne thing will sell. It's a bit early to be claiming otherwise, Kroot.

Gentlemen, here's the first miniature from Juan working for Zenit Miniatures in their Kensei line.

Wow that is slick.

Yes indeed, he looks like a very useful figure. Secret Tokugawa police, assassin, whatever you want. I've seen that archetype in so many anime. Can't wait to see more Diaz sculpting.

Fantastic work.

Well, this news has me even more interested in the Kensei offerings! They seem pricey, but if they're sculpted by someone like this, could be well worth it once they're up for normal sale.

How long did Juan Diaz yearn for sculpting a realistic miniature without skulls or headknots

 Kroothawk wrote:
How long did Juan Diaz yearn for sculpting a realistic miniature without skulls or headknots

He went through Detox

Looks nice! makes me think of those old samurai movies with Toshiro Mifune

To be hone4st his work was kinda hit and miss for me, but I did like the Terminator Chaplain. Hope he does well, striking out on his own.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com