I was wondering f there are any loyal SM left who lived through the Horus Heresy without hiding in the warp or being put into a dreadnaught coffin.

There was some guy in one of the Dark Angels novels who was supposedly around when the Emprah was still alive and kicking. He's locked up with Luther now, though (If memory serves me correctly).

IDK if there are actually any loyalists marines still kicking around from the Heresy, but the BA codex says that Dante is currently considered the oldest living marine at over 1000 years old.

I don't believe there is. The closest we have to that is the primarch of Dark Angels and Calgar whom is almost dead. Both are primarchs though ha ha. If memory serves me, the oldest non-dread loyalist is Dante. Whom is only about 1100 years old.

Chalk it up to chaos for better extended health benefits

Bjorne The Fell Handed was mates with Russ so he wins

Bjorn the Fell-handed is a dreadnought over 10,000 years old. He brofisted Russ for petes sake.
If dreadnoughts aren't considered "living" to you (like many others) than Commander Dante. 1100 years and counting.

How old is Draigo, since the warp destors time?

Bjorne The Fell Handed was mates with Russ so he wins

Interesting. I did not know that. I suppose that would make him the oldest (depending on what your definition of "living" is lol).

 Messy0 wrote:
How old is Draigo, since the warp destors time?

Believe he's been a GK for just shy of 300 years?
EDIT: 200 years via lexicanum

Lysander had a bit of a time warp, didn't he?

 pretre wrote:
Lysander had a bit of a time warp, didn't he?

1,000 years
you don't truly age in the warp though

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Lysander had a bit of a time warp, didn't he?

1,000 years
you don't truly age in the warp though

Yeah, just going off of who's been around the longest. Either way, Bjorn wins.

There was a marine the BT found during the Crusade of the Ophidium Gulf. He wore an ancient suit of power armour and then the DA stole him and that was it. The crusade went missing after departure from realspace. That dude must have been pretty old.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
There was a marine the BT found during the Crusade of the Ophidium Gulf. He wore an ancient suit of power armour and then the DA stole him and that was it. The crusade went missing after departure from realspace. That dude must have been pretty old.

when did the crusade happen? lexicanum doesn't say

No one's really sure if he's been hiding out in the warp or if he's still loyal, but Cypher is likely just as old as Bjorn.

 Korros wrote:
No one's really sure if he's been hiding out in the warp or if he's still loyal, but Cypher is likely just as old as Bjorn.

Loyalty is definitely the question there.

 pretre wrote:

 Korros wrote:
No one's really sure if he's been hiding out in the warp or if he's still loyal, but Cypher is likely just as old as Bjorn.

Loyalty is definitely the question there.

But in all fairness he hasn't aged 10,000 years like bjorn has. I bet hes only been out of the warp a few hundred, tops.

There used to be a BA character called Veteran Sergeant Cleutin, who was the bearer of the shroud of Sanguinius, he was counted the oldest living Space Marine not interred in a dreadnaught.
He was the Sgt in charge of Dantes scout squad at one point.

 StarTrotter wrote:
I don't believe there is. The closest we have to that is the primarch of Dark Angels and Calgar whom is almost dead. Both are primarchs though ha ha. If memory serves me, the oldest non-dread loyalist is Dante. Whom is only about 1100 years old.

'Calgar'+'Primarch'?!?!?!?! It was Guilliman ._. But anyway, yeah, I think it's either Bjorn or Danté..

Abbadon is still alive and kicking, and NOT trapped in a metal box like Bjorn is.

Loyalists only.

I guess it'd be Abbadon then, he played a role in the actual Heresy and is still mucking about at full strength. He's not loyalist though, I know.

Ah. Missed that.

Bjorn, then, if we're only counting Space Marines.

Lion El'Johnson and Roboute Guilliman if we're talking living loyalist Primarchs, although both are currently in stasis.

Spoiler for Nick Kyme's 'Salamander':



So, until that point - he would have been the oldest loyalist marine alive.

Well, the problem with that is we would then have to find out the age of that guy at Istvaan and compare it to Bjorn's age at the same time. Luckily he is dead.

OP specified no dreadnoughts, so it's Dante unless Cypher is loyal

How did I miss that? Yeah, Dante then.

If the Sanguinor is Askellon than he would be the oldest non-dreadnought loyalist marine.

Look at these people who disregard the OP.

Dante is the most concrete answer we can have.

Maybe Luther, if you for some reason count him.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Look at these people who disregard the OP.

Dante is the most concrete answer we can have.

Maybe Luther, if you for some reason count him.

Certainly Luther wouldn't apply as he was touched by Chaos, which although he couldn't strike his Primarch down due to guilt...I can't consider him Loyalist. So it is Dante for those that don't believe Cypher is Loyal.

I do believe Cypher is loyal, so my answer is Cypher.

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Look at these people who disregard the OP.

Dante is the most concrete answer we can have.

Maybe Luther, if you for some reason count him.

Certainly Luther wouldn't apply as he was touched by Chaos, which although he couldn't strike his Primarch down due to guilt...I can't consider him Loyalist. So it is Dante for those that don't believe Cypher is Loyal.

I do believe Cypher is loyal, so my answer is Cypher.

if Dante's 1100 years old, and we are counting beings in the warp, my vote (cypher aside) is Lysander. Warp time 1k years, plus the time before his capture (he was a battle-hardened captain) he has to be older. Lexicanum puts his first notable action as a sgt of the 3rd stardate 567 M40, so factoring in scout training, his (at least) 13 year pilgrimage and the time to advance, i'd say he is prob close to 1500 years old.

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
Certainly Luther wouldn't apply as he was touched by Chaos, which although he couldn't strike his Primarch down due to guilt...I can't consider him Loyalist. So it is Dante for those that don't believe Cypher is Loyal.

I do believe Cypher is loyal, so my answer is Cypher.

Slight correction - it was LUTHER who couldn't strike the Primarch down. Luther is, of course, still kicking but sitting in near-stasis so I doubt he counts here.
Cypher may not have been in the Warp, he may have, we can't say for sure - but he is DEFINITELY under the watchful eye of the Chaos Gods. So you can't really claim his age is purely down to him being a Marine.

I seem to recall there being something in a Codex about Marines getting too old for active duty after so many hundred years of service, and so it stands to reason that Marines can die of old age as well. This being the case, you're not going to find anyone alive from the Heresy without there being SOME kind of extenuating circumstances.

The Sanguinor may be a good call - his longevity is probably supernatural, but it just might not be, and he's been around longer than Dante. Also it's worth bearing in mind that Dante's 1100 years has bounced more than once between it being his time as a Marine total, or just his time as Chapter Master.

 Super Ready wrote:

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
Certainly Luther wouldn't apply as he was touched by Chaos, which although he couldn't strike his Primarch down due to guilt...I can't consider him Loyalist. So it is Dante for those that don't believe Cypher is Loyal.

I do believe Cypher is loyal, so my answer is Cypher.

Slight correction - it was LUTHER who couldn't strike the Primarch down. Luther is, of course, still kicking but sitting in near-stasis so I doubt he counts here.
Cypher may not have been in the Warp, he may have, we can't say for sure - but he is DEFINITELY under the watchful eye of the Chaos Gods. So you can't really claim his age is purely down to him being a Marine.

I seem to recall there being something in a Codex about Marines getting too old for active duty after so many hundred years of service, and so it stands to reason that Marines can die of old age as well. This being the case, you're not going to find anyone alive from the Heresy without there being SOME kind of extenuating circumstances.

The Sanguinor may be a good call - his longevity is probably supernatural, but it just might not be, and he's been around longer than Dante. Also it's worth bearing in mind that Dante's 1100 years has bounced more than once between it being his time as a Marine total, or just his time as Chapter Master.

Not sure on this so leaving my nose out

Theres conflicting sources. Some places we have 600+ year old marines "retiring" others we have them balls-deep in a horde of ork cracking heads, claiming they cant die of old age. I haven't seen many of the former, but plenty of the latter, so who knows.

Do any sources list the sanguinators age? he's like a living saint so who knows how long he's been kickin. As for Dante Lexicanum claims he's RULED for 1100 years, meaning he could be one old bastard. no record of first action though

Some marines are too valuable )Due tot heir experience) to waste on just fighting. They retire from active duty to train the new recruits of the chapter.

Whole freaking 13 Co of SW + Lysander....

If you want to take Black Library into consideration with whatever conflicts may come with it, here was the story I mentioned earlier:

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Merir_Astelan

It's hard for me to pin him as anything other than a loyalist, though. The guy was all about the Emprah and extremely skeptical of Lion. Then again, Lion El'Jerkson can go eat it. Anyway, pretty good story, in my opinion. Poor Chaplain Boreas though.

zatazuken wrote:
If you want to take Black Library into consideration with whatever conflicts may come with it, here was the story I mentioned earlier:

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Merir_Astelan

It's hard for me to pin him as anything other than a loyalist, though. The guy was all about the Emprah and extremely skeptical of Lion. Then again, Lion El'Jerkson can go eat it. Anyway, pretty good story, in my opinion. Poor Chaplain Boreas though.

o and this too....

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Look at these people who disregard the OP.

Dante is the most concrete answer we can have.

Maybe Luther, if you for some reason count him.

Certainly Luther wouldn't apply as he was touched by Chaos, which although he couldn't strike his Primarch down due to guilt...I can't consider him Loyalist. So it is Dante for those that don't believe Cypher is Loyal.

I do believe Cypher is loyal, so my answer is Cypher.

if Dante's 1100 years old, and we are counting beings in the warp, my vote (cypher aside) is Lysander. Warp time 1k years, plus the time before his capture (he was a battle-hardened captain) he has to be older. Lexicanum puts his first notable action as a sgt of the 3rd stardate 567 M40, so factoring in scout training, his (at least) 13 year pilgrimage and the time to advance, i'd say he is prob close to 1500 years old.

Dante is older than Lysander. He isn't 1100 years old, he's been chapter master for over 1100 years, and his codex entry specifically mentions that even Lysander does not remember a time that Dante was not chapter master of the Blood Angels.

 Orblivion wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Look at these people who disregard the OP.

Dante is the most concrete answer we can have.

Maybe Luther, if you for some reason count him.

Certainly Luther wouldn't apply as he was touched by Chaos, which although he couldn't strike his Primarch down due to guilt...I can't consider him Loyalist. So it is Dante for those that don't believe Cypher is Loyal.

I do believe Cypher is loyal, so my answer is Cypher.

if Dante's 1100 years old, and we are counting beings in the warp, my vote (cypher aside) is Lysander. Warp time 1k years, plus the time before his capture (he was a battle-hardened captain) he has to be older. Lexicanum puts his first notable action as a sgt of the 3rd stardate 567 M40, so factoring in scout training, his (at least) 13 year pilgrimage and the time to advance, i'd say he is prob close to 1500 years old.

Dante is older than Lysander. He isn't 1100 years old, he's been chapter master for over 1100 years, and his codex entry specifically mentions that even Lysander does not remember a time that Dante was not chapter master of the Blood Angels.

Lysanders first action of note was as a sergeant in 567 M40, and prior to that he had to be trained as a scout, do a 13-year pilgrimage that saw his parents lives end, and do time in the assault and devastator squads, then rise through the ranks to a Sgt of the 3rd. So if he's not as old hes pretty darn close. and he most assuredly would have been around before dante was CM

tommse wrote:
I was wondering f there are any loyal SM left who lived through the Horus Heresy without hiding in the warp or being put into a dreadnaught coffin.

LOL at people ignoring the OP, par for the course.

Luther was not a SM, he was too old to get the full treatment.

I believe it is Bjorn the Fell-Handed. If you consider him to still be a Space Marine as he is of course in Dreadnought armour. However a Space Marine none the less. I am pretty sure it states that he is the oldest serving, surviving member of the Imperium currently, in the Codex: Space Wolves.

JWhex wrote:

tommse wrote:
I was wondering f there are any loyal SM left who lived through the Horus Heresy without hiding in the warp or being put into a dreadnaught coffin.

LOL at people ignoring the OP, par for the course.

Luther was not a SM, he was too old to get the full treatment.

Mountain-Breaker wrote:I believe it is Bjorn the Fell-Handed. If you consider him to still be a Space Marine as he is of course in Dreadnought armour. However a Space Marine none the less. I am pretty sure it states that he is the oldest serving, surviving member of the Imperium currently, in the Codex: Space Wolves.

Lol right underneath!

People are also ignoring the fact the OP Mentioning that it excludes anyone hiding out in the warp - that excludes Lysander & Cypher due to spending extended time in the warp (where time is irrelevant and 1,000 years can be a year realtime) doesn't it?

Dante seems like a safe choice.

I must say that while you're commenting on how other people are ignoring the OP, you aren't really doing much to help either. OP was asking for loyal SMs that have lived through the Heresy and aren't interred into a Dreadnought.

Dante certainly didn't live through the heresy.
What he is is one of, if not the longest-lived loyalist SM currently.

Gravius of the salamanders was sustained by his Sus-An membrane, he was basically dead, and it was a BL novel so it's not official fluff.

amudkipz wrote:
Gravius of the salamanders was sustained by his Sus-An membrane, he was basically dead, and it was a BL novel so it's not official fluff.

Well there is no "official" fluff. There is background published by GW et al and there is fan fiction. GW has never come out and clarified what is canonical or "official" and probably never will. Because there are so many inconsistencies, errors, retcons, Matt Ward BS, C.S. Goto etc, everyone pretty much has to decide what they view is reasonable.

Some people take a codex only approach some people include BL books.

If i remember correctly wasn't there a group of space wolves found by Ragnar Blackmane that had been hunting for Magnus The Red or some other chaos lord since just after the heresy occurred ? Also they took their orders directly from Russ. Although for them it had "only" been several thousand years due to warp distortion , in real space it had been 10,000 years at least since their departure.

Yeah, I forgot about the 13th Great Company.

They'd be the winners.

How are people so confused by 'loyal' and 'not dreadnaught'

the amount of people suggesting Bjorn and Abaddon makes me question the education systems in the Western World.

It's probably Dante, he's been Chapter Master for 1100 years, so he'd be at least 1200.

To answer the OP totally since a lot of people seem to be getting all in a twist about it.
No. There was a Salamanders guy in a BL book but he died.
The oldest SM outside of a dreadnought, that is loyal, and hasn't had any warpmuckiytimeabout stuff is Dante and he is probably around 1,500 considering (Total guess) very few SM are chapter masters under the age of 300 or so...

Would members of the thirteenth SW count as they are still loyal?

stichfitz wrote:
Would members of the thirteenth SW count as they are still loyal?

They're certainly the oldest loyalists yes, but the OP specified no warp shenanigans.

But Matthew Ward says that the Ultramarines are the best so you should all obviously realise that Marneus Calgar is the oldest...

CloudRider wrote:
But Matthew Ward says that the Ultramarines are the best so you should all obviously realise that Marneus Calgar is the oldest...

He also wrote Dante being the oldest

stichfitz wrote:
Would members of the thirteenth SW count as they are still loyal?


They're certainly the oldest loyalists yes, but the OP specified no warp shenanigans.

Opps, sorry missed that one.

CloudRider wrote:
But Matthew Ward says that the Ultramarines are the best so you should all obviously realise that Marneus Calgar is the oldest...

From the Ultramarines, Chaplain Cassius is listed as being the oldest active member of the the chapter, and he's approaching four centuries of age. Sgt. Talion is noted as serving under three different chapter masters.

In the 3rd ed C:SM there is a brief timeline with some of Calgar's deeds, the first entry is 698.M41

Looking in my 2nd ed "Angels of Death" codex, we have a contender.

Veteran sergeant Cleutin, Guardian of the shroud of Sanguinius.

He is the most senior of the BA sergeants, and is rumored to be the sarge in charge is Dante's squad when he joined the chapter as a scout.

Dante is listed in two different places as either being nearly 1,100 years old, or having ruled the chapter for the same. No idea if the modern codex clarifies this

 thenoobbomb wrote:

CloudRider wrote:
But Matthew Ward says that the Ultramarines are the best so you should all obviously realise that Marneus Calgar is the oldest...

He also wrote Dante being the oldest

Nope... that particular bit of writing dates aaaaaaaall the way back to 2nd ed. A lot of the fluff in the current BA Codex is a direct copy/paste.

Dante is the oldest because he and his dark chicken boys keep ducking the big fights so ofcourse he lives longer.

Just kidding....................no, not really.

Prophet of Khaine wrote:
Dante is the oldest because he and his dark chicken boys keep ducking the big fights so ofcourse he lives longer.

Just kidding....................no, not really.

He's about to lead the defense of Baal with all BA successors against a tyranid hive fleet. Yeah, they're shying away from heavy fighting (and casualties) at the moment because its that or Sanguinus gets nom'd by a ripper and who knows what the feth the 'nids could mutate from Primarch DNA. I for one do not want to see that.

I'm going to echo the Dante call as unless the Azkellion is Sanguinor theory is ever confirmed in future HHS/scouring era fluff, then all the HH era loyalists have perished between then and the 40k now!

When I read the Sanguinor theory I thought it was cool bit of fluff anyway

Okay, so it's Dante, but what about Custodes? Do they do anything other than guard the palace. If not then some of them could date to the time of the heresy.

Oldest Space Marine is Arik Taranus/Babu Dhakal and his 2nd in command. Both are original Thunder Warriors. Now whether you want to count him as loyal that is a another question. The only reason he isn't loyal is the Emporer betrayed him.

cadbren wrote:
Okay, so it's Dante, but what about Custodes? Do they do anything other than guard the palace. If not then some of them could date to the time of the heresy.

Not really. Every once in awhile, one of them leaves Terra on a super-secret mission to wreck someone's face (always another human, I believe) for messing up too badly in some manner that does not draw the attention of other Imperial organizations.... but mostly they just guard the Emperor and the Golden Throne.

I suspect Grimnar comes close to Dante, but doesn't quite take the cake.

Abdaziel Magron was the DA marine mentioned in the first reply. He was a sgt in the 31st and was found and killed in the 41st. He was "sleep" through that time but I think it counts.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
Bjorn the Fell-handed is a dreadnought over 10,000 years old. He brofisted Russ for petes sake.
If dreadnoughts aren't considered "living" to you (like many others) than Commander Dante. 1100 years and counting.

The Dark Angels Primarch is still alive and is been guarded by the watchers as it states in the DA codex, he's in cryosleep or something

"The final secret known only to a very select few is that, buried even deeper within the Rock than Luther, Jonson lies sleeping, waiting with the Watchers in the Dark for the time when he will be needed again, to lead the Dark Angels in a new and greater crusade. Save the Watchers in the Dark, only the Emperor knows of this secret"

 pities2004 wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
Bjorn the Fell-handed is a dreadnought over 10,000 years old. He brofisted Russ for petes sake.
If dreadnoughts aren't considered "living" to you (like many others) than Commander Dante. 1100 years and counting.

The Dark Angels Primarch is still alive and is been guarded by the watchers as it states in the DA codex, he's in cryosleep or something

"The final secret known only to a very select few is that, buried even deeper within the Rock than Luther, Jonson lies sleeping, waiting with the Watchers in the Dark for the time when he will be needed again, to lead the Dark Angels in a new and greater crusade. Save the Watchers in the Dark, only the Emperor knows of this secret"

If the Primarchs count, then we DA have the record.

I stil say Babu Dhakal wins it as he was a Thunder Marine before any of those others even existed and he is still alive. Only the Emporer pre-dates him.

He is also not tainted by Chaos.

Is he still alive in M41?

Depends where you want to go with this one.

Gulliman was mortally wounded and is in a stasis field so I guess he should win, but he's not going anywhere so he's pretty useless.

All of the missing primarch's shouldn't count because they're still 'Missing'

Bjorn is oldest recorded still serving spacemarine in the imperium however he's been interred into a dreadnought.

Dante is the oldest recorded space marine whom is not interred in a dreadnought chassis.

Anyone else agree?

Thunder Warriors were designed to die after a period of time in which their metabolism would go into a 'self destruct'. The way I remember it from 'The Outcast Dead' is that they were always meant to be disposable and for the Terran Wars only, with the Space Marine replacing them ultimately. Though not as powerful in a one to one comparison the Marines were longer lived to the point where only the most grevious wounds wound cause fatalities, hence this discussion on who's the oldest I guess.

My point begin that I thought Thunder Warriors burned out and died...

At the end of The Outcast Dead it was hinted that Babu was in the process of genetic work to increase his lifespan. Although he appeared to succeed at the end of the book it would be anyone's guess that he could then survive on Terra hiding for another 10k years!

Yeah at the end he got the gland so it was hinted he could solve the cancer problem and extend his life span. He disappeared. I'll bet he'll be back. Yes he was still alive in M41.

How old would he be if he was a Thunder Warrior? Three to four thousand years old?

Isn't Garro supposed to still be alive? And he's technically still loyal to the emperor.

It's a pity we don't have ages for some of the other characters in Codex: Marines. I mean, Cassius is so old that he calls Marneus Calgar 'Young Calgar'.

I mean, when you are so old you don't even have to call the Chapter Master by his official title, even if you are the Master of Sanctity...

However, I'm pretty sure the oldest pair with actual dates in their fluff blurb (that aren't Dreads) are Dante and Logan Grimnar.

tommse wrote:
I was wondering f there are any loyal SM left who lived through the Horus Heresy without hiding in the warp or being put into a dreadnaught coffin.

There are no loyalist space marines that fit these parameters.

The oldest is Dante at around 1100 years.

 Mythra wrote:
Yes he was still alive in M41.

There is no reason to expect him to be alive and certainly nothing published by GW that supports your statement that he is definitively alive in M41.

Crazyterran wrote:
It's a pity we don't have ages for some of the other characters in Codex: Marines. I mean, Cassius is so old that he calls Marneus Calgar 'Young Calgar'.

Cassius is the oldest non-dreadnought UM at barely 400 and looks like a grumpy old man. Ultramarines just don't live as long as the Blood Angels or Space Wolves. One might even think the UM, being the measuring stick and all, represent what ages your average marine can expect to reach.

Spetulhu wrote:


Cassius is the oldest non-dreadnought UM at barely 400 and looks like a grumpy old man. Ultramarines just don't live as long as the Blood Angels or Space Wolves. One might even think the UM, being the measuring stick and all, represent what ages your average marine can expect to reach.

Oh definitely. I'd expect standard Space Marines having maximum lifespan of about 500 years.

I'm bringing this thread back up because I just remembered the SW 13th Company that disappeared during the HH and re-emerged during the EoT campaign a few years back....all of these guys are technically 10,000 years old, right? And Wolf Lord Bulveye and his priests probably (I'm guessing) have been fighting since the founding of the SW? Or are they not considered normal marines because so many of them are Wulfen?

They have been in the warp so they don't count.

I've read through all the posts, and I have to say it amuses me that whilst everyone is raging about others suggesting characters that have warp travelled, they don't seem to realise that no marine fits all the criteria as stated by the OP, for the simple reason that ALL Space Marines have been in the warp. The warp is traveled in when Space Marines are re-deploying to warzones, ergo, none fit the bill.

However, pedantic point aside, Dante has got to be the closest to fitting all criteria aside from the HH point.

Cleutin was never listed as killed or dead anywhere. And he was alive just a short time ago, so he probably still is.

Cleutin was the veteran Sergeant in charge of the Scout squad Dante was in.

 81Northman wrote:
Depends where you want to go with this one.

Gulliman was mortally wounded and is in a stasis field so I guess he should win, but he's not going anywhere so he's pretty useless.

All of the missing primarch's shouldn't count because they're still 'Missing'

Bjorn is oldest recorded still serving spacemarine in the imperium however he's been interred into a dreadnought.

Dante is the oldest recorded space marine whom is not interred in a dreadnought chassis.

Anyone else agree?

Do Thousand Sons count as 'still living'? Because they spend loooooads of time in realspace, and yeah, they kinda come back after a while.. Even some of the sorcerers are still alive from the pre-heresy ;D

The Sanguinor has been hinted at maybe being Azkellon which wold make him older even than Bjorn

The Sanguinor is also "hinted" to be a psychic manifestation... The only way the Sanguinor could be Azkellon is if he is effectively pulling a Draigo and chilling in the warp. In short, no one knows what the Sanguinor is, the whole Azkellon thing is just the Sanguinary Guard's wishful, or even cult, thinking.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
I've read through all the posts, and I have to say it amuses me that whilst everyone is raging about others suggesting characters that have warp travelled, they don't seem to realise that no marine fits all the criteria as stated by the OP, for the simple reason that ALL Space Marines have been in the warp. The warp is traveled in when Space Marines are re-deploying to warzones, ergo, none fit the bill.

However, pedantic point aside, Dante has got to be the closest to fitting all criteria aside from the HH point.

Yes but dipping in and out is vastly different from staying there for an extended period...

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Cleutin was never listed as killed or dead anywhere. And he was alive just a short time ago, so he probably still is.

Cleutin was the veteran Sergeant in charge of the Scout squad Dante was in.

While Cleutin isn't specifically mentioned as now dead, it can be deduced from the fluff quotes that mark Dante as the oldest living Space Marine that we've seen since. If I recall correctly, the 2nd ed Codex that had Cleutin referred to Dante specifically as the oldest *Chapter Master* instead.

Tankred ENDURES.

tommse wrote:
I was wondering f there are any loyal SM left who lived through the Horus Heresy without hiding in the warp or being put into a dreadnaught coffin.

Maybe, but doubtful. Dante is currently the oldest known living Space Marine. He's been the Chapter Master of the Blood Angels for over 1100 years. Lysander was lost in the warp for 1000+ years and it is specifically stated that he does not remember a time where Dante was not the Blood Angels' Chapter Master. Lysander himself was a Sergeant in the 3rd Company of the Imperial Fists during 567.M40 and made Captain of the 2nd Company during 585.M40. Sometime after that he becomes Captain of the 1st Company and some time after that is lost in the warp. No dates are given for either event.

Given the Horus Heresy happened in M31, even Dante likely wasn't born when it happened. Dante has been a Chapter Master since M40, the tail end of M39 if you want to be optimistic and push things to the limit. That's still over 7000 years after the Horus Heresy.

So I seriously doubt that any individual has existed for that long unless they were A) lost in the warp so time did not affect them (in which case, 13th Company of the Space Wolves would qualify to the man) or B) interred in a Dreadnought or other form of stasis (and again Space Wolves win, with Bjorn the Fell-Hand being a member of the Wolf Guard of Leman Russ and handed the title of Chapter Master by Russ himself).

 Super Ready wrote:
Slight correction - it was LUTHER who couldn't strike the Primarch down. Luther is, of course, still kicking but sitting in near-stasis so I doubt he counts here.
Cypher may not have been in the Warp, he may have, we can't say for sure - but he is DEFINITELY under the watchful eye of the Chaos Gods. So you can't really claim his age is purely down to him being a Marine.

Actully, that's up for debate. SOMETHING is watching over him, but no one knows if it's the Chaos Gods, the Emperor or some unknown third party. Personally, I think the Watchers in the Dark have something to do with it.

 cowmonaut wrote:

tommse wrote:
I was wondering f there are any loyal SM left who lived through the Horus Heresy without hiding in the warp or being put into a dreadnaught coffin.

Maybe, but doubtful. Dante is currently the oldest known living Space Marine. He's been the Chapter Master of the Blood Angels for over 1100 years. Lysander was lost in the warp for 1000+ years and it is specifically stated that he does not remember a time where Dante was not the Blood Angels' Chapter Master. Lysander himself was a Sergeant in the 3rd Company of the Imperial Fists during 567.M40 and made Captain of the 2nd Company during 585.M40. Sometime after that he becomes Captain of the 1st Company and some time after that is lost in the warp. No dates are given for either event.

Given the Horus Heresy happened in M31, even Dante likely wasn't born when it happened. Dante has been a Chapter Master since M40, the tail end of M39 if you want to be optimistic and push things to the limit. That's still over 7000 years after the Horus Heresy.

So I seriously doubt that any individual has existed for that long unless they were A) lost in the warp so time did not affect them (in which case, 13th Company of the Space Wolves would qualify to the man) or B) interred in a Dreadnought or other form of stasis (and again Space Wolves win, with Bjorn the Fell-Hand being a member of the Wolf Guard of Leman Russ and handed the title of Chapter Master by Russ himself).

as I have said though, the sanguinor may actually be Azkellon and if so he is older than Bjorn.

The Sanguinor is also definitely not mortal in the standard sense. Whether he's some sort of "good" daemon, a personification of Warp energy coalesced into a given form based on the Blood Angel's beliefs, the ghost of Sanguinius or whatever-the-feth... he/it is not a non-Warp-using, non-Dread, flesh-and-blood Space Marine.

BaconUprising wrote:

 cowmonaut wrote:

tommse wrote:
I was wondering f there are any loyal SM left who lived through the Horus Heresy without hiding in the warp or being put into a dreadnaught coffin.

Maybe, but doubtful. Dante is currently the oldest known living Space Marine. He's been the Chapter Master of the Blood Angels for over 1100 years. Lysander was lost in the warp for 1000+ years and it is specifically stated that he does not remember a time where Dante was not the Blood Angels' Chapter Master. Lysander himself was a Sergeant in the 3rd Company of the Imperial Fists during 567.M40 and made Captain of the 2nd Company during 585.M40. Sometime after that he becomes Captain of the 1st Company and some time after that is lost in the warp. No dates are given for either event.

Given the Horus Heresy happened in M31, even Dante likely wasn't born when it happened. Dante has been a Chapter Master since M40, the tail end of M39 if you want to be optimistic and push things to the limit. That's still over 7000 years after the Horus Heresy.

So I seriously doubt that any individual has existed for that long unless they were A) lost in the warp so time did not affect them (in which case, 13th Company of the Space Wolves would qualify to the man) or B) interred in a Dreadnought or other form of stasis (and again Space Wolves win, with Bjorn the Fell-Hand being a member of the Wolf Guard of Leman Russ and handed the title of Chapter Master by Russ himself).

as I have said though, the sanguinor may actually be Azkellon and if so he is older than Bjorn.

NO - even if you ignore OP, his a freaking psychic construct...

It is hinted it at that the sanguinor may be him or his essence so...YES (but no seriously it's very unlikely to be him)

The Sanguinor, when he appears, manifests out of thin freaking air. There's no way this guy is a flesh-and-blood Space Marine that has been around since the Heresy without the use of the Warp or a Dreadnought.

That's why I said his essence...

He did not deny women his company, Mandrake, but he did deny them... his essence.

Now, I'm proabably going to be a little bit heretical here but... If Space Marines are formed from Primarch's DNA, and Primarchs are formed from the Emperor's DNA, and assuming the Emperor is still de facto alive (Though obviously he isn't too spritely these days) - Then does that not making him A) The oldest Space Marine (Since all Space Marines are derived from his DNA) B) Loyal - He is the Emperor after all, and C) Lived through the heresy and is still de facto alive.

Just a wild theory, feel free to pull it apart guys and, presumably, gals!

 Warpig1815 wrote:
Now, I'm proabably going to be a little bit heretical here but... If Space Marines are formed from Primarch's DNA, and Primarchs are formed from the Emperor's DNA, and assuming the Emperor is still de facto alive (Though obviously he isn't too spritely these days) - Then does that not making him A) The oldest Space Marine (Since all Space Marines are derived from his DNA) B) Loyal - He is the Emperor after all, and C) Lived through the heresy and is still de facto alive.

Just a wild theory, feel free to pull it apart guys and, presumably, gals!

And there is the answer boys and girls. the ultra ultra ultramarine.

41_WarGaming wrote:

 Warpig1815 wrote:
Now, I'm proabably going to be a little bit heretical here but... If Space Marines are formed from Primarch's DNA, and Primarchs are formed from the Emperor's DNA, and assuming the Emperor is still de facto alive (Though obviously he isn't too spritely these days) - Then does that not making him A) The oldest Space Marine (Since all Space Marines are derived from his DNA) B) Loyal - He is the Emperor after all, and C) Lived through the heresy and is still de facto alive.

Just a wild theory, feel free to pull it apart guys and, presumably, gals!

And there is the answer boys and girls. the ultra ultra ultramarine.

That's like saying Dogs are Bear-dogs.

Bear-dogs became Bears and Wolves.

Wolves became dogs.

So by that logic Dogs are domesticated Bears.

 DeffDred wrote:

41_WarGaming wrote:

 Warpig1815 wrote:
Now, I'm proabably going to be a little bit heretical here but... If Space Marines are formed from Primarch's DNA, and Primarchs are formed from the Emperor's DNA, and assuming the Emperor is still de facto alive (Though obviously he isn't too spritely these days) - Then does that not making him A) The oldest Space Marine (Since all Space Marines are derived from his DNA) B) Loyal - He is the Emperor after all, and C) Lived through the heresy and is still de facto alive.

Just a wild theory, feel free to pull it apart guys and, presumably, gals!

And there is the answer boys and girls. the ultra ultra ultramarine.

That's like saying Dogs are Bear-dogs.

Bear-dogs became Bears and Wolves.

Wolves became dogs.

So by that logic Dogs are domesticated Bears.

Sounds good to me!

Though no one would want to come over if I had a bear-dog.

@41_WarGaming - I'm not sure about bear dogs, but dogs are essentially 90% Wolf DNA, with only slight variation. There are also certain breeds of dog that have incredibly high muscle content (The English Bull Terrier, of which I am the proud owner of one, has the worlds highest muscle mass ratio of any breed of dog), so they're probably not too far off bear dogs!

 Warpig1815 wrote:
Now, I'm proabably going to be a little bit heretical here but... If Space Marines are formed from Primarch's DNA, and Primarchs are formed from the Emperor's DNA, and assuming the Emperor is still de facto alive (Though obviously he isn't too spritely these days) - Then does that not making him A) The oldest Space Marine (Since all Space Marines are derived from his DNA) B) Loyal - He is the Emperor after all, and C) Lived through the heresy and is still de facto alive.

Just a wild theory, feel free to pull it apart guys and, presumably, gals!

No, because Space Marines are not clones. They are implanted with geneseed that is based, in part, on the genetic material of the Primarchs, which is, in turn, based on genetic material of the Emperor, but any Space Marine begins life as a regular human being.

Hehe I know, it was just a theory

41_WarGaming wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:

41_WarGaming wrote:

 Warpig1815 wrote:
Now, I'm proabably going to be a little bit heretical here but... If Space Marines are formed from Primarch's DNA, and Primarchs are formed from the Emperor's DNA, and assuming the Emperor is still de facto alive (Though obviously he isn't too spritely these days) - Then does that not making him A) The oldest Space Marine (Since all Space Marines are derived from his DNA) B) Loyal - He is the Emperor after all, and C) Lived through the heresy and is still de facto alive.

Just a wild theory, feel free to pull it apart guys and, presumably, gals!

And there is the answer boys and girls. the ultra ultra ultramarine.

That's like saying Dogs are Bear-dogs.

Bear-dogs became Bears and Wolves.

Wolves became dogs.

So by that logic Dogs are domesticated Bears.

Sounds good to me!

Though no one would want to come over if I had a bear-dog.

i have a Karelian bear dog and its very nice. Gets on well with our cocker spaniel.

I vote for Fabius Bile.

Not loyal but thats a good point!
Although with all his fancy apothecary-necro shenanigans he is kind of cheating

No more so than any other Space Marine with his genetic modifications and rejuvenat-genetics.

I suppose Bile has *some* Warp-time, though I would assume, what with long-range deployments and all, that all Space Marines also have *some* Warp-time to account for their age, but not enough to seriously consider it cheating.

Pappa smurf Robert ? Very slim chance he's alive technically he's not dead cause he's frozen just before death.......

I vote for Dantioch! Well actually it is uknown what happend to him but if he's somehow alive then he's the oldest SM, non-dread ever and still loyal. Well loyal to emperor not to Perturabo so he's a traitor! But actually no old vets for loyalists. All old pricks serve chaos.

Just a living Space Marine (not a dreadnought) I remember reading the Death of Antagonis, and the oldest living space marine in their chapter was over 2000 years old


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Non-loyalist: Ahriman, Typhus, Kharn are still alive and kicking since the Horus Heresy..

I think Ahriman wins this one, as he was selected to be one of the first humans to be made into an astartes. And seeing as how he is also spend the most time out-of-warp in comparison to most of his 'chaos' brothers.
Real time, he would be over 11k years old at this point.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
Now, I'm proabably going to be a little bit heretical here but... If Space Marines are formed from Primarch's DNA, and Primarchs are formed from the Emperor's DNA, and assuming the Emperor is still de facto alive (Though obviously he isn't too spritely these days) - Then does that not making him A) The oldest Space Marine (Since all Space Marines are derived from his DNA) B) Loyal - He is the Emperor after all, and C) Lived through the heresy and is still de facto alive.

Just a wild theory, feel free to pull it apart guys and, presumably, gals!

Neither the Emperor nor the Primarchs are "Space Marines." They may be the individuals from which Astartes are derived, but that does not make them such. Just because you use a part from a Ford Escort on a Mustang, does not make the Escort a Mustang. The reverse is similarly true.

That said, I'm fairly certain the answer is:

1. Bjorn the Fel-Handed (if dreadnoughts count as "alive")

or

2. Dante

"I think Ahriman wins this one, as he was selected to be one of the first humans to be made into an astartes. And seeing as how he is also spend the most time out-of-warp in comparison to most of his 'chaos' brothers. Real time, he would be over 11k years old at this point."

Where does that quote come from? It doesn't make sense.

The first Space Marines are all from Earth. Made by the Emperor himself.

So if the Emperor was prepared to enter into a great crusade with a legion ready for each primarch found...

That'd put the count around 10,000 (roughly) marines times 20 primarchs.

So 200.000 astartes were created... probably before Ahriman was born.

Ahriman is from Earth. ....a retcon, apparently. He used to be from Prospero but then later fluff works made him from earth instead, I believe.

Apharious

because according to the HH books, he is still loyal

Old loyalist is Bjorn the Fell Handed at 10, 000+. And I coint him as alive because Mariines are dreadnoughted an inch from death. If he was dead when you put him in, he's still dead.

But if you're obstinate that he is not counted, then Dante at1100+ whatever he was before becoming Chapter Master. I perosnally reckon its about 1400.

TiamatRoar wrote:
Ahriman is from Earth. ....a retcon, apparently. He used to be from Prospero but then later fluff works made him from earth instead, I believe.

Well that's one of the many stupidest things I've heard in recent years. Was that a Mat Wardism?

Luther isn't a true sm, he was too old to undergo the enhancement procedures.

 Deadshot wrote:
Old loyalist is Bjorn the Fell Handed at 10, 000+. But if you're obstinate that he is not counted, then Dante at1100+ .

Well, those are the two most famous examples. The reason Dreadnoughts aren't counted is they're kept in stasis between battles. Bjorn is ancient but the Space Wolves usually only wake him up if there's a major battle coming, or once every century or so in order to tell the new pups about the Chapter history.

I particularly liked what Bjorn said to some Inquisitor who tried to talk sense into the SW after that Armageddon debacle... Inquisitor cools down the debate and introduces himself, asking for the name of the Dreadnought who seems to be the most senior there. Bjorn says "My name is engraved on my sarcofagus, little man".

Spetulhu wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Old loyalist is Bjorn the Fell Handed at 10, 000+. But if you're obstinate that he is not counted, then Dante at1100+ .

Well, those are the two most famous examples. The reason Dreadnoughts aren't counted is they're kept in stasis between battles. Bjorn is ancient but the Space Wolves usually only wake him up if there's a major battle coming, or once every century or so in order to tell the new pups about the Chapter history.

I particularly liked what Bjorn said to some Inquisitor who tried to talk sense into the SW after that Armageddon debacle... Inquisitor cools down the debate and introduces himself, asking for the name of the Dreadnought who seems to be the most senior there. Bjorn says "My name is engraved on my sarcofagus, little man".

At which point the Inquisitor replied with "TL;DR"?

Whether they are in stasis or not doesn't matter. They have still existed for X years. Stasis just stops their metabolism and degeneration of cells. So if ypu were to do carbon datingor something on Bjorn you may only get a result of 2000 years but he has still existed between 31, 000 AD or so to roughly 42, 000 AD and thus is to me 10k+

I'd say dread's don't count since (because they're in stasis), they exsist outside of time. The longest serving loyalist Space Marine is Dante, by a long shot, since dreads and spending time in the Wardiverse the Warp aren't allowed.

Look up the 13th company of space wolves. They chased after the thousand sons when they first fled prospero and have been fighting chaos in the time since.

Thunderwolf39 wrote:
Look up the 13th company of space wolves. They chased after the thousand sons when they first fled prospero and have been fighting chaos in the time since.

But they have been the in Warp for nearly the whole time, iirc, which means they don't count.

Tycho wrote:

Bjorne The Fell Handed was mates with Russ so he wins

Interesting. I did not know that. I suppose that would make him the oldest (depending on what your definition of "living" is lol).

He was the only one of Russ' wolf guard that didn't leave with him into the Eye of Terror. As has been said, if dreads count as living, than Bjorn wins by a landslide.

Basically, if Dreads count, then Bjorn wins.

If Dreads don't count, then Dante does.

There's a difference between "being around at the time of the Heresy" and experiencing the passage of 10,000 years.

The oldest loyalist is Dante. By "oldest" I mean the loyalist who has experienced the greatest passage of time (over 1,000 years)

It's funny how Dante is old but isn't an 'Eternal Warrior'.

That is precisely why he doesn't have it.

He's actually old to the point where he's becoming frail, for a space marine anyway.


A character with EW represents a marine in his absolute prime. He's been there and back again and been all toughened up by his experiences. Dante's done that too, but he's also freakin old and beginning to fade.

Actually the thought occurred to me that he probably doesn't have it for balance reasons. Consider that he already has a 2+ and 4++...giving him Eternal Warrior would put only Abaddon, Draigo and Lysander above him on the scale of Marine survivability. You'll notice that those three are in Termie armour so as well as not having a jump pack, they can't perform sweeping advances.

Dante is expensive enough as it is...

Lion El Johnson could technically be classed as "still living" given that he's asleep in the centre of The Rock, his wounds fully healed from his battle with Luther.

edit: disregard. I dun goofed

Dunno.

I'd still go with Cassius.

Technically, he's only a sprightly 400 years or so old, but he's the walking, living, breathing cliché of "I've been doing this since before your grandfather was born".

More bionics than flesh? Check.
Calling the Chapter Master things like "pub" or "young Calgar"? Check
Carries an old grudge most people only remember from the history books? Check
Weathered skin and white hear? Check


So yeah, if you'd make a 40K movie and want to include "the oldest guy", it'd be Cassius.

Guys like Dante have a lot more years, but I wouldn't envision them as "old". They'd be more "ageless" in some strange, unsettling way. But, to keep with the movie-analogy, you'd probably cast a younger guy for Dante than you would for Cassius.

 Zweischneid wrote:
Dunno.

I'd still go with Cassius.

Technically, he's only a sprightly 400 years or so old, but he's the walking, living, breathing cliché of "I've been doing this since before your grandfather was born".

More bionics than flesh? Check.
Calling the Chapter Master things like "pub" or "young Calgar"? Check
Carries an old grudge most people only remember from the history books? Check
Weathered skin and white hear? Check


So yeah, if you'd make a 40K movie and want to include "the oldest guy", it'd be Cassius.

Guys like Dante have a lot more years, but I wouldn't envision them as "old". They'd be more "ageless" in some strange, unsettling way. But, to keep with the movie-analogy, you'd probably cast a younger guy for Dante than you would for Cassius.

Interesting perspective. If you go with the "You are only as old as you feel" or "Age is a state of mind" you are correct. Dante aged enough to smite foes for the Emperor, then stopped. Cassius went right past "Get off my lawn, you young whippersnappers!" For casting decisions, or filling tropes, Cassius does take the cake.

 SabrX wrote:
It's funny how Dante is old but isn't an 'Eternal Warrior'.

because being old and being able to shrug off the pain that would otherwise incapacitate even the strongest of warriors are completely different things.

Dante is old, he has survived being wounded in battle, taken out of the fight, only to heal up later and come back.
Dante has no fluff about having his arm sliced off, and though gushing blood and in blinding pain able to will himself to fight for another 10 minutes of intense battle.

ID represents an attack being so grievous, so strong, that while it might not kill the target, it makes it impossible for them to continue to fight.

Dante is the oldest marine recognised properly who is not in a dreadnought suit, however sanguinor is probably older, if he is really human and not some other weird stuff.

Bjorn the fellhanded is the oldest in a dreadnought, but he is really starting to fall apart. he was around during the hearsay, something few, if any, others can claim outside of the imperium.

The swear filter is in place for a reason. --Janthkin

 Super Ready wrote:
Actually the thought occurred to me that he probably doesn't have it for balance reasons. Consider that he already has a 2+ and 4++...giving him Eternal Warrior would put only Abaddon, Draigo and Lysander above him on the scale of Marine survivability. You'll notice that those three are in Termie armour so as well as not having a jump pack, they can't perform sweeping advances.

Logan, Marneus Calgar, any Marine HQ on a bike and any Black Templars HQ with an Adamantine Mantle are also higher on the scale.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Look at these people who disregard the OP.

Dante is the most concrete answer we can have.

Maybe Luther, if you for some reason count him.

Yes, Dante is the oldest living loyal Space Marine and Bjorn is the oldest living sarcophagus bound SM from the HH.

ok, so its Dante
now whats the life expectancy of a guardsmen in battle?? haha

Probably Dante but I thought Sanginor if he was Azkaellon...

DeathCompanyFTW wrote:
Probably Dante but I thought Sanginor if he was Azkaellon...

This notion is probably due to the fact that the Sanguiniary Guard are crying over the fact he died, and have decided, in their ultimate wisdom and gold-ness, that the Sanguinor MUST BE AZKAELLON BECAUSE WE SAID SO x)