Since we have a thread dedicated to unfething the notoriously poor internal balance of the Tyranid book I've thought, well the Orks are another xenos race in need of some love and they're tied with Tyranids for my favorite race, so why not work on updating their aging book to keep up with the times?

This is a general discussion thread to updating the Orks into being a full 6th edition army. Here we shall discuss warlord traits, special characters, fixing old units and bringing in new ones, translating forge world units into codex standard, apocalypse, wargear, and of course fluff.


CODEX

ORKS

Flash gitz:

~Gitfinda: Flash Git weapons are twin linked
~Shootier: +1 strength
~More Dakka: +1 shots
~Blasta: As per usual, but the Gitz can choose not to fire it by passing a leadership test.
~Megablasta: Able to optionally fire a Plasma Kannon type small blast
~Kombi Weapons: Some kombi-weapon is strapped to the shoota.
~Multi-barrels: The weapon fires 1d6 shots instead of 1d3. However for every pair of ones in the squads shooting one gun has jammed and cannot fire next turn. Something like that
~Longa Barrel: Weapon range increased by 6" (base range is 24 or 36?)

To start off, I'm thinking of instead of having a specific hard boyz unit, it'll instead be an upgrade for shoota and slugga boyz and have a bit of a price reduction given the vast amounts of AP4 in the current meta. One mob of 30 hard boyz currently is something of a points sink, when by all means it should be something that ought to make your enemies sweat in terror.

Storm boyz:

Rule: Aim for the flyboy:

A squad of Stormboyz may elect to fly and attack a zooming flyer or swooping monstrous creature in the assault phase if they pass a LD check, if the check is failed the Boyz have had a change of heart and look for another target (may assault a target they can assault normally without any penalty). If the Leadership check is passed and the Boyz make their charge do the following:

-Count how many Boyz are within assault range (as per normal assault rules) every boy that is in assault range gets a auto S6 hit on the flyer, the boyz out of combat are considered to have flown up but missed their target.

-No matter the result of the combat, if the flyer is destroyed or if the flyer manages to survive the combat all the Boyz that were able to assault the flyer are removed as casualties as they have ended up as greasy green smears decorating the enemy flyer or caught in the dramatic explosion of the destroyed flyer or crushed by the monstrous flyers dead body.

Runtz mob:

 Dakkamite wrote:
Replacement for "Gretchin Mob", first draft.

Runtz Mob

"Runtz" is a word used by Orks to describe all the small, annoying creatures that infest any given Greenskin camp. When the time comes for battle, Ork Slavers (known as Runtherds) and Squig-Farmers (Pigdoks) assemble da runtz into mobz and use them for mine clearance, mobile cover, and any number of other horrible tasks



~Unit Type: Troops, Infantry
~Unit Size: One Runtherd or Pigdok, and between five and thirty Gretchin or Squigs (unit may contain a mixture of these)
~Wargear: Gretchin are equipped with a Grot Blasta. Runtherds have a Slugga, Grabba Stikk, and Squig Hound. Pigdoks have an 'urty syringe and Pigdok's tools

Grabba Stikk: Runtherds may choose to exchange all of their attacks in a melee phase for the same number of Grabba Atakks. Grabba Atakks are resolved at initiative step 10 against any model within 2" of the Runtherd, and roll to-hit like any other melee attack. However, if you hit, no wounds are inflicted ~ instead reduce the INT and attacks of the target by 1 (to a minimum of 1). This does not work on any model with a Strength value double or higher that of the Runtherd. You may freely choose which model or models within 2" to target, there is no need to spread the attacks evenly, though you must decide who to attack before rolling any to-hit dice.

Squig Hound: If you fail a morale test, remove 1d3 Gretchin to attempt the test again. A Squig Hound also counts as a Squig for the purposes of Get 'em boy and Gone Wild - note that it *will* be removed in the latter case.

Pigdok's Toolz: Pigdok's spend their whole lives raising Squigs, and the frequent and bloody fights in the Squig Pens have taught them a thing or three about patching up wounded beasts! Each set of Pigdok's tools confers a 6+ Feel No Pain effect on the Squigs in the unit. This effect will stack, becoming 5+ with two sets, and 4+ with three sets Remember, you cannot take Feel No Pain saves against Instant Death, which will affect Squigs a heck of a lot with only T2.

~Special Rules: Furious Charge (Orks, Squigs), Beasts (Squigs), Stealthed (Gretchin), It's a Runts Life (Gretchin, Squigs), Get 'em boy! (Squigs), Gone Wild! (Squigs)

It's a Runts Life: If a Runtz Mob is in close combat with the enemy, any number of your units may shoot at that enemy unit as per usual with non-template weapons. Any shots fired in this fashion are resolved as snap-shooting in every regard, except on a to-hit roll of 1 or 2, remove the closest model from the Runtz unit as a casualty. If any units choose to shoot in this fashion, even if no hits are scored and no Runtz removed, the Runtz Mob must pass a morale test at the end of the shooting phase or flee from combat. Count all casualties recieved from shooting into this combat towards Combat Resolution in the following melee phase.

Errata: If any other friendly unit is in the combat, or any IC attached to this unit, then you cannot fire into the combat. If multiple Runtz units are involved in the same combat, only remove one model per to-hit roll of 1, not one from each unit. A Runtz mob cannot fire while in close combat to take advantage of this rule!

Get 'em boy!: If an enemy unit of infantry attempts to flee a combat with a Runtz mob, roll 3d6 and compare this value to the number of Squigs in the unit. If it is lower, reduce the opponent's INT value by half (round up) for the purposes of attempting to break from combat, and in addition, inflict a number of wounds on the fleeing unit equal to the amount you beat this roll by (armour saves may be taken as usual)

Gone Wild!: If a Runtz mob ever fails a morale test and flees, the Squigs in the unit go wild and attack everything around them! Remove every Squig model from the unit as a casualty, and for every three squigs removed in this fashion, inflict 1d6 S3 automatic hits on every unit (friend or foe) within 6" of a model from the Runtz mob as well as the Runtz mob itself!

Errata: Roll all the dice only once, not seperately for each unit

~Options
Add Gretchin or Squigs to the unit for...........................................................3 points per model

For every ten Squigs in the unit, you may add one Pigdok for.........................10 points
For every ten Gretchin in the unit, you may add one Runtherd for...................10 points

For every ten Gretchin in the unit, you may join two of them into a weapons team armed with;
A Grotzooka..............................................................................................20 points
A Rokkit Launcha.......................................................................................10 points
A Big Shoota.............................................................................................5 points

Gretchin Weapons Teams

Gretchin Weapon Teams count as regular Gretchin for the purposes of being attacked, though they may only suffer Instant Death from blast and template weapons. If a wound is recieved by the unit (and doesn't cause Instant Death), roll a dice on the following chart;
1-2: A Grot has been cut down, but another takes his place! Remove one Gretchin from the unit and the team remains intact
3-4: The gun has been smashed! Remove the team, but add two Gretchin to the unit
5-6: The entire team has just gone SPLAT. Remove it as a casualty

If a Runtz mob runs during the shooting phase, any Grot Weapons Teams it possesses will be dissolved, adding two Grots to the unit. If a Runtz mob flees at any point, dissolve all Grot Weapons teams in the same manner.

Thoughts?

Man I was tossing up making this thread myself. Consider me on board.

On 'ard boys, I think it should costs just two points per model, three at most. A 50% price hike to raise durability by "fifty percent" isn't very efficient because for starters, it's not also raising offense or mobility at all, and on top of that the forementioned worthlessness of 4+ due to the surplus of high RoF/blast AP4. As it is it's a rather crap upgrade and it's never even crossed my mind to use it.

Alternatively, one less point, however the added weight of the armour impedes the boyz in some way. Slow and Purposeful might do the trick but it may also be a bit on the excessive side.

Another thing to look at could be some kind of combat shield. I really like the idea of a bunch of hard as nails Orks forming a screen for the rest of your boys.

Ah yes, 'Ard Boyz in the space marine game used shields. Perhaps they could be a special unit that not only have better armor saves (but no sluggaz) but can give improved cover saves for the boyz behind them?

Also I'm thinking of having a set of armor and cybork upgrades for nobz.

'Naff armor (5+ save, cheap)
'Eavy armor (4+)
Supa armor (looted power armor, 3+)
Mega armor (2+)

'Naff Cyborks (6++)
'Eavy cybork (5++)
Supa cybork (4++)
Mega cybork (3++)

And instead of meganobz being a distinct unit, they're simply nobz with Mega armor/cybork. You could have both, but it'd be expensive.

4+ armour on everyone for cheap as nuts would be an issue since that negates standard infantry weapons, i.e a boltgun or even a pulse rifle. So I think 6+ is fine and just having 1 unit with the option for eavy armour is okay. 2pts may be too cheap, but even then I probably still wouldn't take it. There's many options to get cover saves (5+ sure, but its the equal of a guardsmen) and having every guy with eavy armour would make them too expensive and you'd have fewer guys.
There's only a few things I think that should be changed which would make orks decent, and still have some diversity in their builds.

Overall codex traits:
+1 initiative on the charge. They shouldn't be base 3 IMO, since then does that mean nobs should be I4? I dont think so, nor do I think nobs should be the same as a regular boy. Alternatively, make it that in charging in a WAAAGH phase they get +I1 as they're just that more amped. It would also make the waaagh phase useful, which would be a nice change.

Units:
HQs - I'm mostly happy with, only thing would change is a points cost reduction to weirdboys. Also a warboss on a bike allows bikers to be troops (like a marine biker captain)

Elites
Nobs - reduce base cost to 15pts, everything else as is.
Meganobs - option to take a bosspole. I dont feel they should get the option for a painboy, could make them too good so stick with it having to be a special character.
Burnaboys - same but option for dedicated trukk transport
Lootas - no change
Tankbustas - either points reduction to about 10-12pts, or an upgrade in the weapon to S9. Dedicated trukk option (may make me consider a tankhammer on a boarding plank )
Kommandos - stealth USR

Troops
Boys - option to take burna upgrade
Grots - no change
Trukk - point drop to 30 or comes with built in ram

FA
Stormboys - drop cost to 9-10pts and drop cost or zagstruk
Buggies - no change
Warbikes - return of fearlessness, no points change
Deffkoptas - addition of nob leader option & bosspole, PK cost drops to 20pts for normal boys.
Jets - points drop or AV11 on front

Heavy
battlewagon - no base points change, price drop for killkannon or an increase in range
Dread - AV13 on front
Kans - larger unit size, kustom mega blastas for +15pts, rokkits for +10pts
Big guns - no change
Looted wagon - AV12 on front
Flash gits - dont even try...

Mostly I feel just a few things have become to expensive to be worthwhile, so just need their points dropped a little, then others which are too fragile, toughened up a little. The main issue is an overall inability to handle tanks at range. This could easily be remedied by changing the tankbustas, could also make them a must include unit so GW would actually sell some! I would prefer them to become S9 than a points drop and with the option for a dedicated trukk, would probably consider them (keep the squig bombs as is).

For units to include:
Grot bombs - a purchasable upgrade for warbuggies
Painboss - an average HQ, but can give FNP to a unit
Bigga guns - another heavy support choice but not taken as a unit like the big guns batteries. So similar to the DKOK artillery; like they can get a trio of basilisks but as artillery, not on a chimera chassis, the ork counter part would be supa-kannons/lobbas/zapp guns or whatever. Would have to be done carefully to not make big guns redundant so way higher cost. Like <1000pts big guns are all that's needed, but >1000pts a bigga bun battery may be needed to pop russes and the big guns can still stick to their chimeras or what have you.
As far as an MC goes... dont really want/feel we need one. Definitely wouldn't want a walker type that just makes deff dreads useless, but a squig does have potential through it being an MC that doubles as a transport. Some interesting opportunities lie here.

So this would give the options to make viable horde, biker, trukk rush or gunline lists IMO.

That should get the ball rolling...





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Looking at that, I wouldn't really want to mess around with the saves.
Take this
Nob - mega armour, mega cybork
That a dude with a S9 PK on the charge, 2W, 2+ and a 3++. What would that cost? Like at least 60 points, probably more I'd imagine. 6+ saves I don't think anyone would bother with and a 3+ just doesn't fit in with the ork character to me.
Invul saves will always be expensive to give to guys, 6+ is almost meaningless and would be only put on things like regular boys, probably bumping them up to 8-9pts a pop. 5+ is fine, terminator equivalent. Then 3+ and 4+ would be just too expensive to give out.
Maybe if you wanted to have some sort of shield equivalent that's swapped out for a slugga I'd either go:
same as a marine combat shield (6++ not great sure, but you're not paying extra for a naff cybork upgrade)
or gives +1 to save in CC, so an 'ard boy with shields would be 3+ in CC.

This is what I have in mind for 'ard boyz. May have balance issues so have at it!

'ard boyz (1-2pts): grants a 4+ save and the boy can opt to trade his choppa for a 'eavy shield (or just get a shield?) for an additional point or two

Orks are strong, but the sheer weight of armour plates that make up a suit of 'eavy armour is enough to slow even them down. Any Ork boy (not Nobs) with 'eavy armour gain the slow and purposeful special rule.

Kombat Shields are huge, solid slabs of metal that make the boyz behind them almost impervious to enermy fire. An Ork equipped with a Kombat shield gains +1 toughness if in base to base contact with another two Orks with Kombat shields (like that DA rule). Any mob equipped with kombat shields adds +1 to it's cover save and confers that same bonus to any unit that the enermy fires through the shielded unit to hit. However, Kombat shields slow da boyz down even more and force them to move as though they are in difficult terrain at all times.

As for armour, I find it quite nice not to have MEQ in our list. With Cybork I feel having more than perhaps two ranks of it is too much. To borrow an idea from IA: 8, how about any Cybork can be given/recieves an upgrade from a list or from a random chart? The ones they had were;

Turbo Killaz; Unit gains fleet but suffers 1d3 wounds when it runs

Tinboy Brutes: T5 but slow and purposeful

Given the nature of Orks I personally think a random table of add-ons would work, but that said, Turbo Killaz is just trash though I do like the name. The better cybork upgrade might give the unit a re-roll, on the cybork chart. Note that doubles would/could/should cause cybork mishaps ~ squig brain transplant anyone?

I've started looking through that thread where people post what they want / ideas for the new GW Ork codex. Something that caught my eye was a Warboss retinue. You could take Nobs, meks, doks, and weirdboys at least, and then split them off to lead other units. Could perhaps replace the usual method of just getting a 'Nob leader'? Would absolutely love any chance to take more weirdboys thats for sure.

Given the recent nerfs to fleet I'd say having it suffer wounds for fleet alone wouldn't be terribly useful. But perhaps having it allow you to run and assault once again would be worth it? It'd be unique, and well worth the wounds you'd suffer to surprise someone who thought they were safe.

I seem to have missed Rahxephons post...

Pretty much thats all good stuff man, though its too broad to comment on all of it. Mainly I'd add "Orks now have frag and krak stikkbomms" and "swap Lootas and Killa Kan FoC slots" to it. Kans really don't warrent a heavy slot, either FA or Elites, and Lootas are well and truly the most Heavy Support unit in our entire dex.

The Jets though... the Blitzabomma needs a serious boost because a single S7 AP4 melta attack just doesn't cut it because it doesn't get a single bonus point on the pen chart. The Burna bomma should perhaps come with rokkits for free because without them its trash, and with them its overcosted as hell.

Stealth for Kommandos is good, and to that I add "Make goddamn Snikrot assault from outflanking again!". I was also tossing about a special rule for Kommandos the other day... essentially some bonus if they assault from out of cover. But I gotta work on it a bit more before I post it up.

Perhaps give Big Gun batteries the option of upgrading one gun to a Bigga Gun? The gun gets ded killy but also gets hot or something. The thing about Orks is that they're inefficient - for instance, no burnas in with the boys where they'd be amazing, but we can take a whole bloody unit of the things where they are much less efficient. So I reckon that theme should be continued, and along those lines, stick that one long range super kannon in with the standard ones.

The boyz you call 'ard boyz from the space marine game are known as Skarr boyz, more ferious than normal boyz

True about the other jets and a reasonable idea about the big guns. But as far as stikkbombs go, I cannot see much use for them. With I2, I dont think frag would help much, and being able to throw one is kinda useless anyway. Krak would be mega crazy though. Dread charges in, nek minnit... 30 kraks in the face. In the last codex you were able to get stikkbombas, cant remember if they had krak though...

How about including a new walker or MC? ^^

The last thing Orks need is some new huge MC that renders all other walkers in the codex useless. If anything, give the Killa Kans and Deff Dread some much needed buffs.


Although that potato head model is pretty sweet...

Squiggoths are probably a good candidate for the big Ork MC, I'd suggest being able to slap armor and cybork bits on them though. An 'ard squiggoth would be fairly amusing.

 Kain wrote:
Squiggoths are probably a good candidate for the big Ork MC, I'd suggest being able to slap armor and cybork bits on them though. An 'ard squiggoth would be fairly amusing.

A toughness 7 instead of Toughness 6 and 1-2 more wounds like the normal Big squiggoth, have a transport cap of 12 instead of 10 5 meganobz + a mega warboss would be neet to transport with it.

Also in need of unfething; Flash gitz, compared to Lootaz they're an absolute joke for their points cost. And as someone who can fondly remember the death machines they were in Dawn of War that's just sad.

Firstly they need a points docking, they cost way too much. The upgrades needed to make them effective in the first place are especially in need of becoming cheaper, and even when fully upgraded they're rather underwhelming, so we may need to adjust their capabilities to make them competetive.

One thing I think Flash Gitz need more of is well...dakka. They just don't throw out enough volume of shots. Not for their extreme cost anyway.

Move flash gitz to ellite, add kaptin badruk as a HQ(maybe flash gitz like troops like warboss does nobz)

Special warlord trait: In the unit wich Kaptin Badruk is leading Increase their assault weapons shots by 1.

Just a tought ^^ afterall... he's known for taking more dakka with him

Flash gitz, increase their range to 30, and Bs2/3. They are known for being the most shootiest orks Even better at aiming than lootas They could have a uppgrade to get High single str shot ap(?) with Get's hot or
3 shots with str 5/6 ap d6.

As you said Kain, Reduced cost for how they are today, that'd be good and i would take em more often, just a shame to skip a battlewagon for their cause :/

 rahxephon wrote:
True about the other jets and a reasonable idea about the big guns. But as far as stikkbombs go, I cannot see much use for them. With I2, I dont think frag would help much, and being able to throw one is kinda useless anyway. Krak would be mega crazy though. Dread charges in, nek minnit... 30 kraks in the face. In the last codex you were able to get stikkbombas, cant remember if they had krak though...

Nah they're frag only. Every other faction gets krak grenades without a second thought, I figure the Orks are entitled to the same treatment. Why give us the worthless grenade and not the decent one?

 Kain wrote:
Also in need of unfething; Flash gitz

Definitely. But I'd like to see them buffed without resorting to BS 3 because thats just unOrky.

Another good candidate for random weapon tables tbh, and perhaps random shots like the Loota instead of assault one. Flash Gitz have a variety of random guns cobbled together from a dozen different Mekboys probably on a dozen different planets. I'd say they come with one random upgrade as standard, but you can buy more random upgrades, upgrade re-rolls, and also for a higher price specific upgrades that you want. I'd also love to see certain upgrades that you roll randomly stacking ~ if someone happens to get four shootiers and has S10 Flash Gitz thats just hilarious!

Potential ideas off the top of my head;

~Gitfinda: Flash Git weapons are twin linked
~Shootier: +1 strength
~More Dakka: +1 shots
~Blasta: As per usual, but the Gitz can choose not to fire it by passing a leadership test.
~Megablasta: Able to optionally fire a Plasma Kannon type small blast
~Kombi Weapons: Some kombi-weapon is strapped to the shoota.
~Multi-barrels: The weapon fires 1d6 shots instead of 1d3. However for every pair of ones in the squads shooting one gun has jammed and cannot fire next turn. Something like that
~Longa Barrel: Weapon range increased by 6" (base range is 24 or 36?)

I really do like the idea of Badrukk upping the dakka of his unit. Perhaps twin linked if the Gitz don't already get it as standard or as a random upgrade?

The boyz you call 'ard boyz from the space marine game are known as Skarr boyz, more ferious than normal boyz

I remember these from like 3rd edition. Orks part way between boy and Nob, they had S4 but still only W1. Wouldn't mind bringing these back tbh.

So what do you guys think of the 'ard boyz sofar? Would also like to hear from non-Ork players who may happen to be reading the thread.

Also I've thought that the Melta probably should be an ork weapon somewhere. I mean, it even has a kind of orky spelling.

Now it shouldn't be ubiqutous, but I can see some flash gitz or mekboyz carrying around some. Or maybe some tankbustaz.

It's not like Meltas are particularly complicated, they're apparently very simple to make and make reliable, given that unlike plasmaguns they don't have gets hot and don't need specialist forges to make.

While we're on Tankbustaz, Tankbustaz definitely should have Tank and Monster hunters. Because they make a living out of killing things like Leman Russ tanks and Carnifexes. Their rules ought to reflect that!

And I can see your flash gitz table working. I'd definitely pay for some if I could get those options without breaking my points bank.

One thing from dawn of war I'd like to see in the tabletop would be the Beamy deffgun. It'd be a lascannon equivalent in the same way the deffgun is an autocannon equivalent. Can go from being significantly worse to significantly better depending on how the dice gods favor you, but you can have a LOT of them.

15 Lootaz with beamy deffguns ought to get those rip tides sweating.

I'm also thinking of having a smoke bomm upgrade for boyz which creates a cover save like a defensive grenade, or maybe even screws with overwatch so that you can get in there and chop them gitz behind their walls without worrying about overwatch so much?

I'm liking the beamy deffgun thing actually. Ditto for Tankbustas targetting MC as well as tanks ~ pretty much just "big targets" in general which fits with their fluff. They certainly need something better than that garbage rokkit launcha though.

Smokebomms sounds like a Kommando upgrade to me. Imagine them infiltrating into position and tossing smoke at the right moment. The smoke clouds could give any number of bonuses... at the very least shrouded, if not flat out blocking LoS or limiting it to X" past the clouds.

1. Different Types of Boyz (Troops) - Weird Boyz, Spanna (Mek) Boyz, Pain Boyz, Kommando Boyz, Freeboota Boyz, or Burna (Belchas) Boyz, Taken in groups 10-30. Only a Boy (not a boss or Nob) can take/keep Objectives. The boyz do not have to all be of the same type (except Kommando boyz)Optional for every 10 boyz of same type, they can take 1 nob boss of same type.

2. Nobs are basically just stronger boyz with better weapons that only care about fighting not objectives. They can be Nob Bikkers, Weird Nobs, Mek Nobs, Meganobs, Mad Doks, Kommando Nobs, Flash Gitz or Burna (Belchas) Nobs. These can be an elite groups 3-15 (bikkers are 3-10) or as a boss.

3. Lootas - gain 'gets hot' and become heavy support. Get a dedicated transport (preferably the battlewagon) - Can take 1 Mek Nob as boss.

4. All Meks (Note Spanna Boys are not Meks) can take KFF instead of shoota and change their choppa for a burna, Only a Big Mek can take Shokk Attack Gun

5. Def Dreads become Elites and can be taken in units of 1-3. If the Def Dread doesn't explode a Mek can sacrifice himself to bring it back to life. Spanna Boyz 6+, Mek Nob 4+, Big Mek 2+. They can also switch out 1 ranged weapon for their own. for example a KFF. If they fail both figures are removed from the board.

6. Killa Kanz become Fast Attack 18" MV and can be taken in units of 1-6. They also can become grot transports (instead of taking a ranged attack) holding 5 grots per Kan.

7. Grotz lose the mandatory Runtheard, instead it's optional, though 19 grotz can still only take 1 boy. With a boy type in the squad, Killa Kanz can not be used as Transports. Even though Grotz are a troop choice they can no longer take or hold objectives. For every 10 grot 1 get the option of a grotzooka

8. Flash Gitz become Elites (Gitz Nobs, Freebooter Boyz) Badrukk can only be taken with Gitz Nobs.

9. When a figure with a Burna (Belcha) is killed roll d6 4+ he explodes (Blast, no deviation, ignores cover at Strength of weapon)

10. Big Meks, Warbosses, and Thraka can no longer make elite units Troops. If Gutsmek is taken all Troops must be warbikkers.

11. Non dedicated vehicle can be armed with Lifta-Droppas

12. The best for last The Shokk Attack Gun. Must purchase a large number of snotling to use this weapon. Snotlings can be used for non targeted attacks but not look out sir. 1:1 Boom (hole under mek) and 6:6 Raargh are both deviating attacks - whatever is under the template is removed from game (each use 10 snotlings). 1:2 (opponent chooses 1 figure) and 5:6 Bzzap Figure takes a str 10 attack - only invulnerable saves (each use 10 snotlings). 2:2 Oops (opponent chooses placement of the Template (no deviation). Only the figures under the template take a Strength 10 attack - no look out sir (uses 10 snotlings). 5:5 this is a non deviating Str 10 attack - no look out sir (uses 10 snotlings). 2:3 Sploosh snotlings become a spray of blood and bones, do no damage affected unit(s) (including vehicles can take NO action for 1 turn (uses 5 snotlings). 3:3 Zoink Big Mek and unit (no snotlings) are transported into base-to-base contact with the unit under the hole of the template (no deviation, no furious charge, uses 6 snotlings) 4:4 brings the target unit into base-to-base contact with the Big Mek - move snotlings if needed (uses 8 snotlings). All other attack use the same number of snotlings as str. If there aren't enough snotlings for the attack the str is the number of remaining snotlings with a deviation roll. Boom and Raargh do not open a portal instead resolves as a normal attack. 3:3 and 4:4 still transport but not in Base-to-Base. for example if 2 snotlings were needed, the moving unit is 2" away from target.

I would love to get some feedback and read more suggestions - thank you

I like most of those ideas, except for

~Killa Kans moving 18" (wut?)

~Gretchin cannot hold objectives (kinda what they're for, doing all the boring jobs so da boyz can go fight)

~Snotling Big Mek thing seems overly complicated. I'd just make it that if the Big Mek fires the SAG within 6" of Gretchin or Snotlings (if it was an actual unit) you can sacrifice a number of models to alter the effect of the gun somehow

yeah 18" is way off for Killa Kanz but with a Jump Pack option how about 12" instead?

The Gretchin I've given a lot of thought to. But the only reason they do those boring jobs is because the boys are making them, Basically they do as little as possible so they wont get killed. Also they tend to not go above the call of duty, that might get them notice which will probably also get them killed. So yes the Gretchins would take an objective only if an Ork Boy is watching them. So basically the Boy would need to be there to take the objective. The change of a RuntHerder to a choice of types of boys fixes that problem and it sets up that if he dies the objective is no longer taken.

Ah the Shokk Attack Gun. A wonderful gun that originally you had to roll to see what table you were rolling on. then you rolled to see how much damage you caused. Then you had to roll again to see if there were side effects, if there were side effects you had to roll to see what they were. One attack 15 minutes and boy was it always insane to use. With the latest codex they got rid of all that. gone are the days of Machine Gun shooting snotlings, opening portals to lets the deamons in, or having a random unit spend time to pull rabid snotlings out of their armor. Now we got a 3% chance (or once every 50 games) something incredible will happen. Otherwise, it's just a waste of 60 points, where for 10 more points you get a Big Mek with a KFF and a Burna - that you put with a Meganob Unit and a Battlewagon Def rolla and race it across the board. (and there's nothing wrong with that)

Call me an old fart, but I really miss the versatility and randomness with the ork. I miss not really knowing what's going to happen. They really have become way too organized and if you don't take Lootas, you really don't stand a chance. With that said you are right, it's way to complicated, but it needs to be fixed so that people will start taking it again.

LOL, jump-packing grot carrying Killa Kans sounds more silly than useful. I love it! Naturally they'll take dangerous terrain when they land and if they crash when assaulting they just mince up whatever they hit!

As for Grots, Orks won't do any of that stuff either if they don't have to. I think the way the current dex represents Gretchin cowardice and laziness (terrible Ld) is fine.

I'd be very happy to see more SAG shenanigans. Could just make it complicated for the sake of pointless Orky complexity. Roll on a table that directs you to other tables which in turn can direct you back to the first table... way I see it, 6th edition is the edition of random charts, and nobody does random charts like da boyz.

Edit: I looked back over your ideas man, and I gotta say I really like 1 & 2 in particular. Currently our boyz do all the fighting and the Nobs kinda do nothing by comparison. Rather than just a specialized unit I'd rather see Nobs more widespread and taking on many of the close combat roles. I'd also probably just make "Kommando" an upgrade available on top of being whatever type of boy or nob, one that grants stealth and move through cover or something, rather than forcing a unit to be 100% "kommando" and 0% doks, meks, etc.

Lootas with gets hot... srsly will just kill them, i can vouch for a ...malfuction that this loota guy wont get to shot this turn cuz his dakka jammed... but gets hot will outright kill them all :/

I might as well throw in my two cents. My ideas might be a little bland, but all be happy if anyone is willing to slog through them and critique.

Special rules:

Waaagh! (I've been kicking around ideas on how the Waaagh! might work, but I think the idea I like the most is a variance on the 3rd edition rules)

During the Player's sub-charge phase, after all charges have been declared but before Overwatch is rolled, for all charging units with the Waaagh! rule roll a 3d6 die test to the mob's size. If the roll is less than or equal to the the number of models in the squad, a Waaagh! has been declared. A unit that Waaagh!s gain +1 to Initiative and Fleet for that round of combat

Choppas
If an Ork unit successfully charges a unit, any melee weapon with the Choppa special rule in the unit reduced their AP by 1

Choppa S:user Ap: 6, Choppas
Big Choppa S:+2 Ap: 5, Choppas
(And any other melee weapon that might fit. For the sake of avoiding an argument, any kind of "mashas" or blunt weapons on a model still counts as a choppa so long as it's the same rules and size as it's bladed counter part)

Mob Rule (same as before. Can't hurt perfection )

"I'z the boss" A rule given to Warbosses, Big mekz, and nobz
When ever an Ork unit with a model with the "I'z the boss" fails a charge or a leadership test, you may choose to inflict a wound on that unit (not on the model with the "I'z the boss" rule) in order to reroll that charge or leadership test.
(this kinda replaced the boss pole, but the boss pole gets re-purposed in this version)

HQ
Warboss (I love the warboss, and for the most part he doesn't need a change, so the ideas are more optional upgrades than flat buffs)

Stats: Same as before
New rule: Calling the Waaagh!: Once per game, a warboss may call the Waaagh!, sending the boys into a frenzy. All Waaagh! test automatically pass that turn. Multiple warbosses can call the Waaagh! on different turns.

Warboss upgrades (You may only pick one. You buy them during list making so no picking them before a match)
Dead 'ard: The wasboss has +1 toughness. When a unit successfully Waaagh!s, they gain +1 toughness for that combat round
Poison drinka: The warboss and the unit he is attached to is immune to the Posion special rule (any poison weapon that does not have a Str characteristic counts as str 3. When a unit successfully Waaagh!s, they are immune to the Poison special rule. for that combat round
Loota: Designate a Vehicle at the beginning of the match. If that vehicle is immobilized, wrecked, or explodes, place a marker next to that vehicle. This marker counts as a separate objective for the Ork army, and may be captured by any troops, Lootas squads, or the warboss with this rule
Flash Boss: The warboss's weapons and the unit he is attached to have their AP reduced by 1. When a unit successfully Waaagh!s, their melee weapons have their Ap reduced by 1 for that combat round (this stacks with the Choppas rule)
Speed King: the warboss and the unit he's attached to and any vehicle he is embarked on have skillful rider. All vehicles in the army may add +1 inch to their move in their movement phase but do not incur penalties for this extra inch. This stacks with Red Paint Job.
Sneaky: During deployment, d3 ork units in the Warboss' detachment may move 6 inches immediately after all units have been placed (including infiltrating units). When a unit successfully Waaagh!s, they count as having assault grenades

New equipment:
Boss pole: Any unit with a boss pole counts as having an additional model for Waaagh! tests. Boss poles stack
Gruesome trophy: The warboss and the unit he's attached to count as having assault and defensive grenades
Warbosses may also buy most item from the armory

Big Mek:

Stats: same
Mek tools are the same, SAG and KFF are the same

New rules (these apply to all meks, not just big meks)
Sabotage: If in base contact with an enemy vehicle (or when using a boarding plank), A mek, instead of attacking, may instead make a special attack. On roll of +3, the vehicle suffers a weapon destroy result, with no save allowed. If a six is rolled, the vehicle is immobilized. this does not reduced the vehicle's hull points.
Overclock: In the movement phase, the Mek may pick one weapon on a model in any unit the mek is attached to or a vehicle he is embarked on, to increase it's rate of fire by 1 in the following shooting phase. This include his own weapon.
When a Big Mek is equipped with a warbike, any warbike unit he is attached to may move an additional 6" while turbo boosting
When a Big mek is equipped with Mega armor, any Mega armored unit his is attached to lose their unwieldy rule on their power klaw

New equipment (big mek only)
Teleporta: A mek and any unit he is attached to may be moved to another location on the board as if they had deep-striked. If the Mek is held in reserved, the Mek and one unit of the play's choice may deep strike when he is deployed from reserve
Gear Stoppa:
Range: 30" S:5 Ap:- Power Drain*
*Any vehicle hit by the Gear Stoppa must remain stationary for the following turn.
Mek boys also keep their old equipment options

Weirdboy: moved to elite. He'll get a spot when I move on to elites.

I'll finish this up in another post

Some of those rules man... they are fantastic. In particular I really like the new WAAAGH and having the boss call a WAAAGH instead of a weirdboy, makes a ton of sense in both cases.

Perhaps we could add to that somehow? If multiple units WAAAGH successfully within a certain distance of one another they get a bonus to combat resolution?

Can't help but notice that you've got a specific rule for each klan on the warboss. Very nice touch.

I also really, really like the idea of giving bonuses to the unit if you give a mek a bike or Mega Armour ~ I mean he's just so useless with that stuff now it makes a fantastic change. I reckon losing unwieldly might be a bit much though... perhaps he supercharges their Mega Armour and removes S&P at a cost of 1d3 S1 hits every time the unit runs or runs down an enermy unit? (sort of like their superchargers from Dawn of War). Likewise turboboost an extra d6 inches, on a 1 someones engine has exploded and they take an S3 hit.

Looking forward to the next post man. This is some great stuff.

Edit: For the Warboss' snakebites poison drinka special rule, perhaps add poison attacks to the mix? As it stands, noone will take it except against specific armies (*cough* dark eldar *cough*). Poison attacks for da boss (and his unit?) as well as for any unit during its WAAAGH

I think 'ard boy'z should be a flat cost, to upgrade a unit, say, 30 points to make any infantry style unit 'ard. That means it's better for huge boytz mobs, but not as good for the things like burnas, lootas, and such. I'd also like it if say, it was 60 points to upgrade to 'ard boyz, but 30 if you have a big mek, due to the spare parts he would have to kit them all out

So much Mek love ITT.

I'll add my 2c; under the previously mentioned overclokk rule, a Mek can also choose to improve the speed of a vehicle at the risk of it becoming immobilized.

Turbo-boosted deff dreads charging down the field? Yes please

 Dakkamite wrote:
LOL, jump-packing grot carrying Killa Kans sounds more silly than useful. I love it! Naturally they'll take dangerous terrain when they land and if they crash when assaulting they just mince up whatever they hit!

Silly over useful, I think is the gretchin mantra. Basically the sillier they are the more I want to field them.

 Dakkamite wrote:

As for Grots, Orks won't do any of that stuff either if they don't have to. I think the way the current dex represents Gretchin cowardice and laziness (terrible Ld) is fine.

I believe Ork Boys will do anything they believe will elevate them. If the Gretchins have an ork boy in their unit, they can take objectives. Just like with Nobs, if there is still 1 ork boy alive, they can still take objectives.

 Dakkamite wrote:

I'd be very happy to see more SAG shenanigans. Could just make it complicated for the sake of pointless Orky complexity. Roll on a table that directs you to other tables which in turn can direct you back to the first table... way I see it, 6th edition is the edition of random charts, and nobody does random charts like da boyz.

I'm going to have to dig up my old "'ere we go" codex but as I remembered it (and my memory of games I played 25 years ago could be fuzzy - we also had house rules mixed in there) there were 6 charts for effects. each of them had 11 possible outcomes. If you succeed in rolling an attack you then had to roll for strength 2d6 -1 (Str 11 was instant death no save). To finish it all off you then rolled on the Malfunction chart which could possibly have you rolling again on the 6 charts (with 11 outcomes) and a roll for damage against you. Like I said before insane but always worth it to field at least one. I don't remember deviation rolls or that it effected more than one unit. But I remember the Mek with a SAG was a solo unit. And you thought my chart was complicated.

 Dakkamite wrote:

Edit: I looked back over your ideas man, and I gotta say I really like 1 & 2 in particular. Currently our boyz do all the fighting and the Nobs kinda do nothing by comparison. Rather than just a specialized unit I'd rather see Nobs more widespread and taking on many of the close combat roles. I'd also probably just make "Kommando" an upgrade available on top of being whatever type of boy or nob, one that grants stealth and move through cover or something, rather than forcing a unit to be 100% "kommando" and 0% doks, meks, etc.

We must be on the same wave length, exactly what I thought for Kommandos, Storm Boys would be the same, rockitt packs must be purchaced by entire squad. Warbikkers will remain Fast Attack, you can choose your nob (which could be a Mad Dok). Only with Gutsmek do warbikkers become troops and can take objectives. IA8 has Zhadsnark again for him all Troops must be warbikkers.

Thank you

Playing space marine really makes me wish stormboyz and other jump infantry could assault fliers. Because hot damn was the valkyrie ride sequence awesome.

I kind of wish they repeated it later with some Chaos raptors to shoot down though.

To fix the codex all Ork boyz should be str 4, Nobs str 5 and warboss Str 6, Sluggars should be assault 2 and the WAAAGH needs to change the 2d6 roll for assaulting to just 12".
Other rules i would like to see are

All Orks get the USR FNP and a Mad Dok (painboy) let you re-roll the USR FNP
Nobs and Mega Nobs each modle get a grot upgrade that give them the USR look out sir rule on 4+ (the Nob uses the grot as a human shield) the grot always dies they don't have to roll to wound

A New USR "Orks Don't Aim At Their Target They Point And Shoot" ( Orks always use there BS 2 for Snap Fire ) e.g. Lootas can move and shoot, Ork can Shoot at flyers on BS 2
Grot Blastas are lasguns

Also Kult rules

Deathskulls all Orks get a 6++ and Lootas are Troops

Goffs all Orkz Boyz can be 'Ard boyz and 1 unit is upgraded for free

Evil Sunz any unit can have a Trukk as a dedicated Transport
all Trukk must have red paint job

Bad Moonz have Flash Gitz as Troops and All Flash Gitz are upgraded with More Dakka, Shootier and Blastas for free

Snakebites all Weird Boyz are upgraded to warpheads for free and can be taken as HS and FA and well as HQ. All Vehicle upgrades cost double including weapons

Blood Axes have Kommandos as Troops all Boyz are LD9 and Warbosses and Nobs are LD 10

Freebootaz can make a single unit Troops from anywere in the codex (e.g. Warboss or Killa Kans

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
Waaagh!: During the Player's sub-charge phase, after all charges have been declared but before Overwatch is rolled, for all charging units with the Waaagh! rule roll a 3d6 die test to the mob's size. If the roll is less than or equal to the the number of models in the squad, a Waaagh! has been declared. A unit that Waaagh!s gain +1 to Initiative and Fleet for that round of combat

I'm a bit torn, because right now Waaagh! is pretty useless unless you have Dakkajets. If you roll a 1 on the charge (even if you reroll the 1) one of your orks takes a wound. Weirdboy, because they are weird have 1 talent that's they can cast additional Waaagh! Ok that's what we have right now. I still believe that Waaagh! should be a once per game (except Weird Boys). I think it should last for 2 melee rounds. So I agree that you can only declare Waaagh! in your Sub-charge phase and it should last until the end of your next melee phase.
It should grant Auto Initiative not just +1. If the enemy unit is destroyed and there are attacks left over, the mob will then attack themselves with the remaining attacks (even if there is only 1 ork in the unit). If any orks shoot at an enemy they must make a charge attack towards them (they do not have to reroll) on a roll of a 1, one member in the unit takes a wound roll, save only on invulnerable. Weirdboy can still roll a second Waaagh! and Thraka's Waaagh! remains the same.

I could take or leave the change with choppas, they are makeshift weapons any improvement should probably have a down side like breaking.

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
"I'z the boss" A rule given to Warbosses, Big mekz, and nobz
When ever an Ork unit with a model with the "I'z the boss" fails a charge or a leadership test, you may choose to inflict a wound on that unit (not on the model with the "I'z the boss" rule) in order to reroll that charge or leadership test. (this kinda replaced the boss pole, but the boss pole gets re-purposed in this version)

I like the name "I'z Da Boss" better than Bosspole (anything with the word pole in it makes me think I'm going to a strip club

I don't like the idea of multiple Waaagh!'s Once per game unless the Weirdboy is feeling weird. I think giving a warboss more options is a good idea, the only problem I see is that currently the warboss has a lot of options. Giving them the Kommando option, or a Rokkit Pack might be fun. But most of the options will probably just not be used - partly because of cost and partly because of limitations. I know I would always just take the increased toughness.

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
New rules (these apply to all meks, not just big meks)
Sabotage: If in base contact with an enemy vehicle (or when using a boarding plank), A mek, instead of attacking, may instead make a special attack. On roll of +3, the vehicle suffers a weapon destroy result, with no save allowed. If a six is rolled, the vehicle is immobilized. this does not reduced the vehicle's hull points.
Overclock: In the movement phase, the Mek may pick one weapon on a model in any unit the mek is attached to or a vehicle he is embarked on, to increase it's rate of fire by 1 in the following shooting phase. This include his own weapon.
When a Big Mek is equipped with a warbike, any warbike unit he is attached to may move an additional 6" while turbo boosting
When a Big mek is equipped with Mega armor, any Mega armored unit his is attached to lose their unwieldy rule on their power klaw

I like Sabotage, but it works too well, it should be a reverse repair 4+ and a roll -1 on the penetration chart no hull point damage unless vehicle is already immobilized or weapons destroyed, then it loses 1 hull point.
Overclock again need to add d6 on roll of 1, the weapon is destroyed
Turbo boost should also get a d6 roll on a 1, one of the bikes in the unit is immobilized
Megaarmor also should do d6 on roll of a 1 remove 1 mega armor figure from unit.

Orks aren't any fun if things can't go wrong, otherwise you might as well play space marines.

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
New equipment (big mek only)
Teleporta: A mek and any unit he is attached to may be moved to another location on the board as if they had deep-striked. If the Mek is held in reserved, the Mek and one unit of the play's choice may deep strike when he is deployed from reserve

Yikes! Deep Strike. I personally wouldn't ever take it. Where I would use the Teleprta is with the KFF as a side effect. For example whenever a unit under the protection of the KFF is shot at roll 2d6, snake eyes the unit is teleported to base-to-base with the attacking unit. No charge bonuses. Vehicles are unaffected but the Unit inside is transported.

Gear Stoppa - I agree that the Orks need more vehicle damagers, but that's what tankbusters are for. Gear Stoppa sounds very expensive and against Demons or Tyranids it's useless.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

notyorkskargrinironhide wrote:
To fix the codex all Ork boyz should be str 4, Nobs str 5 and warboss Str 6, Sluggars should be assault 2 and the WAAAGH needs to change the 2d6 roll for assaulting to just 12".

So boys should cost 25 points each, Nobs would cost 50 each, and warboss would cost an additional 80. I don't know how I would price sluggas probably give each figure a +5 unless they take Shootas. So Waaagh! would automatically succeed and no chance of in fighting within the orks. I've been kinda hoping they would make things cheaper and not go the other way. So no chance to make a horde

Normally, I would go through the list but it's all the same stuff, every powerful item is free. If gamesworkshop thinks even one of these overpowered in your dreams ideas are viable. Ork would become too expensive and way overpowered to even play. I would actually have to stop playing them because they wouldn't be any fun anymore.

I really do like the multi-WAAAGH over single WAAAGHs, but Sleg has a point that if your large boyz mobs are getting guaranteed fleet and improvements to INT it'll be reflected in a price hike for boyz.

It should grant Auto Initiative not just +1. If the enemy unit is destroyed and there are attacks left over, the mob will then attack themselves with the remaining attacks (even if there is only 1 ork in the unit).

+1 to this. That really is a fantastic idea man. Only problem is when they send that decimated unit of IG into the path of your boyz, and if you charge it more Orks then 'umies are gonna go down...

Then again, thats exactly how I want this game to be played. Maybe even force the boyz to charge an enermy during the WAAAGH if one is close enough, and they must move closer to the enermy?

I'll certainly be watching this thread :thumsup:

And, I'm also pretty keen to have the Waagh force things to charge.

Or, how about, a Waagh is declared after all charges have been made. You roll 2D6 and add one for every Ork Unit that charged (successfully) that turn. You'd have a chart, starting at 7 perhaps, indicating the power of your Waaggh! A bit complicated perhaps, but I think it'd be fun. I guess the chart would be something like this.

Note: If you roll a result, you also apply all the results of a lower value. So, if you rolled an 8, you'd get re-rolls of 1s and +1 Initiative

7 - +1 Initiative
8 - Re-rolls of 1 to hit
9 - Re-rolls of 1 to wound
10 - +1 Strength
11+ - +1 Attack

All effects last for 1 phase

And perhaps Ghazghul would have a special rule allowing you to re-roll the 2D6 for the Waaghh!

I'd personally count unsuccessful charges too. Remember, with Orks its the thought that counts.

Maybe if the WAAAGH gets too strong, every unit is forced to make a charge or move towards the nearest enermy ~ resolved as a free 1d6" movement. Can mess with gunline type units such as Lootas

 Dakkamite wrote:
Some of those rules man... they are fantastic. In particular I really like the new WAAAGH and having the boss call a WAAAGH instead of a weirdboy, makes a ton of sense in both cases.

Perhaps we could add to that somehow? If multiple units WAAAGH successfully within a certain distance of one another they get a bonus to combat resolution?

Can't help but notice that you've got a specific rule for each klan on the warboss. Very nice touch.

I also really, really like the idea of giving bonuses to the unit if you give a mek a bike or Mega Armour ~ I mean he's just so useless with that stuff now it makes a fantastic change. I reckon losing unwieldly might be a bit much though... perhaps he supercharges their Mega Armour and removes S&P at a cost of 1d3 S1 hits every time the unit runs or runs down an enermy unit? (sort of like their superchargers from Dawn of War). Likewise turboboost an extra d6 inches, on a 1 someones engine has exploded and they take an S3 hit.

Looking forward to the next post man. This is some great stuff.

Edit: For the Warboss' snakebites poison drinka special rule, perhaps add poison attacks to the mix? As it stands, noone will take it except against specific armies (*cough* dark eldar *cough*). Poison attacks for da boss (and his unit?) as well as for any unit during its WAAAGH

Thanks man, I've actually been thinking about these ideas since 5th edition, so reading that is a real compliment

I was actually thinking about that after I wrote the Waaagh! rule. I love the idea of a "rolling Waaagh!", where you get the most out of the Waaagh! if you assault in one wave. Perhaps units 6" from the Waaagh!ing unit (including the waaagh!ing unit) count as having 1 more to combat resolution. (stacks up to 3)

That was the intention for the wasboss upgrades, yes. However they would cost points to get, since I do want the generic warboss to still be a viable choice (and I was very disappointed when they made Daemon Princes have to be dedicated to a god.)
As for poison drinker, yeah, it is a little weak sauce as is. Perhaps all melee weapons of the warboss and the unit he's attached gain Posion (+5), and any unit that Waaagh!s does too for a combat round. Only Poison +5 though, since I don't want to ape Dark Eldar's style.

The bonus to biker and mega meks is definitely one of my favorite ideas, since they absolutely get no love now. Your idea for the biker sound a bit better than mine, still adds a bonus with a little chance to problems. With Mega amor, I agree that losing unweildly might be overpowered. But the idea you have I already though for an item mega armored units can take. Perhaps a MABM can give mega armored units fleet?

I'll finish then up in a bit, real life calls

Adding to the biker thing;

"If a 1 is rolled, nominate one biker before moving the unit. This biker has gone out of control, and zooms his full movement and turbo-boost distance in a random direction (you choose if a hit is rolled). If the biker hits the edge of the board, a ruin or building or other piece of sizeable terrain he is destroyed, and if he hits a unit (friend or foe!) he inflicts (damage) and is wiped out as well.

If he survives his trip, simply treat him as an out of coherency model which must always move towards it's unit until it regains coherency"

Also, Fightaz, Fighta bommerz, and Bommers ditch their Big shootas for Supa shootas for less dinky dakka.

Because it makes no sense for the grot plane to carry bigger guns than the one flown by Orks.

I've been reading NetEpic rules for Orks, and they give them instinctive behaviour if outside of the command radius of a Nob.

I reckon that'd be interesting and fluffy and help balance out any bonuses to WAAAGH and what not that we give the boyz. What do you think?

^ If they're feral orks, maybe. But we're not playing fantasy.

Eh? Are you referring to animosity by any chance?

Orks are pretty straightforward creatures, it would make sense to me that without a Nob to boss 'em around, they'd just go charge at the nearest enermy or something. Perhaps they'd require a leadership test, if they pass they follow orders and if not, WAAAAGH DAKKADAKKADAKKA DA ORKS

Nah, the savage orks. Dudes who run around in underwear and run at people with giant sticks.

I would disagree about it fitting thematically. A normal space ork does have a degree of self control and awareness and can make choices about what it wants to do. They're educated somewhat you could say through experience. So alone, an ork is probably quite cowardly, hence the mob rule, but with a couple of lads around will go do whatever they want. A nob is not needed to tell them to go from A to B. A feral ork on the other hand, who's lacked the interaction of others and hence lacks any sort of experience from them would behave in a more primitive, instinctive manner.

Anyway, fluff is subjective. In-game instinctual behaviour would be lame. It would just put more pressure on nobs. If it dies, you're kinda out of luck so where a barrage weapon may have needed to 20 boys before forcing a Ld test and rendering the mob not so useful, it could just snipe the nob and then the units kapoof. Thats not just for barrage weapons of course, there are many ways to get rid of 1 particular guy in a unit.

Like you said, it's subjective. I personally see them as more of a force of nature, and individual boyz or units of boyz would simply crash against the nearest enermy without the coherent leadership structure provided by a Warboss and his Nobz. Thats just how they appear to me in the fluff. Instinctive behaviour in this case isn't representative of Orks being dumb animals controlled by synapse, but of Orks just being Orks whenever da boss ain't lookin.

I'd also give different behaviour to different units. Tankbustas for instance essentially apply "Glory Hogs", and have to move towards, shoot and assault the nearest tank or MC. Meks might be drawn towards the nearest Ork vehicle in order to 'start fixin' it. Lootas would likewise be drawn towards any wreck within LoS and a certain distance, otherwise they hunker down and shoot. Maybe an 'animosity' type effect as annoying as that would be.

By applying penalties like this, we'd have a fair bit of scope to improve on the boyz via a stuff like a stronger WAAAGH using the sort of ideas that were posted earlier, and it would raise tactical choices about what exactly you use to lead the boyz mobz.

I'm thinking each Klanz' waaagh should be a bit different. A Goff waaagh is all about getting stukk in an' choppin' dem boyz gudd. But a deathskull waaagh probably involves a lot of looting and taking away metuhl bawkses. While a Bad Moonz waaagh brings a lotta dakka.

 Kain wrote:
I'm thinking each Klanz' waaagh should be a bit different. A Goff waaagh is all about getting stukk in an' choppin' dem boyz gudd. But a deathskull waaagh probably involves a lot of looting and taking away metuhl bawkses. While a Bad Moonz waaagh brings a lotta dakka.

Codex supplements, anyone?

 The Shadow wrote:

 Kain wrote:
I'm thinking each Klanz' waaagh should be a bit different. A Goff waaagh is all about getting stukk in an' choppin' dem boyz gudd. But a deathskull waaagh probably involves a lot of looting and taking away metuhl bawkses. While a Bad Moonz waaagh brings a lotta dakka.

Codex supplements, anyone?

But then which Klan would be vanilla? It's not like IG, Chaos, or Space Marines where you have Cadians, the Black Legion, and Ultramarines to function as the bog standard.

Probably Goff.

But, in all honesty, I can actually see GW doing a Codex: Orks and then a supplement for Evil Sunz, since Evil Sunz have a lot of models related to them (bikers, trukks etc) and it's fairly easy to come up with a number of differences.

I also have an idea for looted Riptides/Dreadknights/Wraithknights/Daemonfiends to go with Ork Squiggoths, so da boyz can get in on this "shh we're not walkers" business.

But perhaps a uniquely orky should be a walker but is a MC anyway unit would be better?

Ew, making the Ork MC simply a looted MC from another faction?

Nah. By all means would be happy to have that as an option beside our monster squig

It'd be a way to ease people into seeing looted C'tan.

Or Looted An'ggrath, which I totally bought one just to do in order to see the double takes.

"Yes, I looted the champion of the blood god. What of it?"

Lol, looted c'tan.

I'm kind of doing that already. Got an "Avatar of Gork" underway for my Looted Necrons.

Looted An'ggrath has a weirdboy on his head bonking it to keep him in line and has all sortza orky gubbinz. And they tore out his right arm for a stompakannon and painfully put in a bellygun.

And a big ol' toof through his skull.

But he's being used to kill things so he's down with it.

But yeah, expanded looted rules are a must. Having to use LWs, Trakks, Trukks, Fortresses, and BWs for everything can't be allowed to stand any longer/

Bearing in mind we play a 40K version more akin to a 4th/5th edition hybrid, we have given the ork codex a facelift. Some of the changes include:

Orks can Mob Up! again.
Options added to boss - burna, rokkit pack, snazzgun.
Added a Painboss.
Big Mek can have a snazzgun, deffkopta, and can have mega armor in addition to KFF.
No limit on 'ardboyz.
3 gretchins in a mob can replace their blastas to crew a support weapon (either big shoota or grotzooka).
Transports can have 'runnin' boardz' which increase capacity 50%.
Meganobz can have a bosspole, and iron gobs (+1 Leadership) are back.
Burna boyz and lootaz (which are now heavy support) may have a nob.
Stormboyz and Kommandos are cheaper.
Looted vehicle loses 'don't press dat' and may upgrade armor.
Flash gitz may have a trukk or looted vehicle as transport, and are elites. Upgrades for snazzgun are cheaper.
Skarboyz are back.
Grot tanks, Mega deff dread and deff gunship added.
Zzap gun always hit's on a 3+ but if a '1' is rolled it hits the nearest unit, friend or foe.

Those are the basic changes we've used, but we have an untested unit: an ork tellyporta. Essentially a tank that can beam an adjacent infantry unit across the battlefield, much like a shokk attack gun (complete with crazy results when doubles are rolled). If a unit is upgraded with "homerz" it can be beamed (w/in LOS) from across the table to another location.

We also have a more fundamental change for the orks' basic stats if anyone is interested, but this is enough to digest for the moment!

Got a PDF by any chance?

I really like the idea of giving a Big Mek a deffkopta. Theres tons of little things like this that *should* happen and are awesome but that get overlooked and never thought about

I wish Orks had some kind of sniper unit. Grots maybe? They wouldn't have to work like normal snipers in the 40k sense, but it would be nice to be able to field a sniper or two...

Here are some things i wrote, i kinda lost interest in finishing this, i got to busy but it is full of ideas for Orks. Here are the rules they havent been play tested at all.

Ork Codex

 Dakkamite wrote:
I've been reading NetEpic rules for Orks, and they give them instinctive behaviour if outside of the command radius of a Nob. I reckon that'd be interesting and fluffy and help balance out any bonuses to WAAAGH and what not that we give the boyz. What do you think?

Are we Orks or Tyranids? Also what would their Intinctive behavior be, "Kill all non orks?"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That came out not as funny as planed and I'm a little late

The old Ork Codex, or one of them anyway, allowed you to actually purchase a unit (such as a Rhino - it gave you a list of possibilities) from other books, like the Guard or Marine Codex/ices. That could be the path we take for looted stuff, perhaps not going as far as that though.

The way you move units and such in 40k is indicative of a chain of command and communication system that the Orks simply wouldn't have.

While that can be ignored for the purposes of gameplay, we can also represent it (to a limited extent, for forementioned gameplay purposes) with "Wot do we do boyz? I know, lets go krump da umies!"

Also old Lootas had Imperial guns. All but one of my lootas is converted like this, so naturally I'd be a bit biased towards putting it back in...

Part two of Luke's Codex Ork

New HQ:
Speed Boss (Name pending. Something as a replacement for the wierdboy)
Stats: WS4 BS2 S4 T4 W3 I4 A4 LD9 SV6+

Equipment:
Choppa & slugga, may be replaced with shoota
May buy Rokkit pack
May buy same equipment as Warboss, bar megaarmor

Rules: Skillful Rider
Big Speeder: The Speed King allows one Fast Attack unit to be taken as a troop choice. He may also buy any vehicle as his own personal ride. Any vehicle he buys that does not have a transport capacity counts as a Chariot. He has the same access of upgrades from the vehicle entry.

Ambulophobia: Speed King often live their lives in or on a vehicle, and if forced to walk on his own two feet he becomes distracted and panics. If a Speed King is not in a vehicle or in assault he must take a morale test. Should he fail, he falls back. If there is an embarkable vehicle with in 6" he may regroup regardless of other conditions.

Troops:
Ork Boyz
Stats: same

For every 10 boys in in a squad, a boy may replace his equipment with:
Big shoota (same)
Rokkit launcha (same)
Burna (no long power weapon, see burna boy entry)
Big Choppa

Any unit make take 'eavy armor for 4 points

Runtherder squad:
May buy any combination of these three models:
Grot 3 pts
Squig 4pts
Snotlings 4pts

Gretchen
Stats: Same
Rules:
It's a grot's life.
It sucks, basicly. In any assault with a Runtherd mob, all overwatch shots must be aim and allocated to models with this rue first. In addition, the player may chose to remove any Grot models from the assault as if the unit has failed to reach the assault, loosing 3d6 Grot models

Sneaky Gitz: When the unit goes to ground, grots gain +2 to cover. This does not stack with area terrain.

Squigs
Stats: Beast, Ws: 3, Bs: 0, S:3, T:2, W:1 A:1 Ld 2 Sv-
Rules: Furious charge, Not scoring

Snotlings Infantry Ws:1 Bs:2, S:1, T:3, W: 3, A:1, Ld:2, Sv-
Rules: Swarms, SAG Ammo*
*When 6" within a SAG model, you may sacrifice 1d6 snotlings for +1 for the strength roll (this does not affect rolls on the misfire chart)

For every ten models in the squad, you may take a Runtherder
Stats: same
Runthereds may trade they grabba stick (same) for a grot prod or suppa serum
Grot prod
Str; User, AP-, poison +4, concussion

Suppa serum
The unit gains FNP (+6) and fearless

Tansport:
Trukks 30 pts
Everyone should get access to trukks

Vehicle Upgrades
Turbo Boosta: During the shooting phase, the unit may use it's Turbo boosta. Roll 1d6 and move the vehicle the amount shown on the die in inches. If a 1 is rolled, the vehicle may no longer use the upgrade as something has back fired and refuses to work (but the vehicle may still move the 1 inch). It the player wishes to use the Speed Boosta while Tank Shocking or Ramming, they must declare it's use during the movement phase and still move in a straight line.

Elites in part 3

 Dakkamite wrote:
Got a PDF by any chance?

Just an Excel file.

On another note, while the old days of borrowing vehicles from other codices for looted vehicles was fun it did add to the confusion. The problem is the current looted vehicle isn't flexible enough, so we made a basic version but gave it loads of options, including an armor upgrade. Dropped the 'don't press dat' rule though.

P.S. We also altered the Ramshackle rule. When the scatter die is rolled to determine which direction a trukk moves after getting destroyed you roll 2D6" if the die is pointing in the general direction it was heading and only 1D6" if the die points the opposite way. Inertia matters (at least a little)!

 The Shadow wrote:
The old Ork Codex, or one of them anyway, allowed you to actually purchase a unit (such as a Rhino - it gave you a list of possibilities) from other books, like the Guard or Marine Codex/ices. That could be the path we take for looted stuff, perhaps not going as far as that though.

I believe it was 'ere we go' and the Blood Axe Clan had this, Originally taken from the Freebooters Codex, were there were Pirates filled with mixed army list. Blod Axe could also take a Freebooter Squad. I was thinking that we could do this with Flash Gitz and make them Part of a Freebooter Codex. I started the Thread Making the Flash Gitz Useful

@Luke

I like the addition of the Big Choppa to the boyz. I hadn't thought of using it like that myself.

Rather than a new character I'd just make the Speed King an Evil Suns warboss. I reckon the klan affiliation of da boss should have important effects

Forgeworld has already done Snotlings, not sure how their stats compare. They've also done a Snotling / SAG thing. I believe it was just 1d3 Snotlings for a similar effect but not certain

Would make the Squigs WS2. This has a precedent in the Squiggoth. But could work either way. Definitely agree that Runtherds are not living up to their potential. I reckon that supa serum is pushing it though

Finally, the turbo-booster should probably immobilize the trukk if it fails. Has precedent in the Mekboy junka which can become a fast vehicle or immobilize itself. Makes people have to actually choose if they will use it rather than auto-use until it fails

Make Killa kanz and deff dredds have a 5+ inv save

Give a Deffdredd IWND as well and make if front AV 13.

Give all Ork units 6+ FNP

Also KFF should give all friendly units within 6" the Shrouded rule.

Make Big choppas AP 4 but AP 3 on the charge.

Imo Orks gameplay style are that there the toughest Xeno army out there and they hit hard when they do hit with anything, as well as having mad creations as well. I think Orks need this kind of thing back into the next Ork codex, but that's just my opinion

Also bring Mega derdds into it, the bigger the better and I would rather have big walkers for my army than having an oversized squig tbh but again that's just my opinion.

 happygolucky wrote:
Make Killa kanz and deff dredds have a 5+ inv save

I would be happy if they gave them a 6+ inv save, basically anything to stop them from getting glanced to death. It's why lootas seem to do better than Tank Bustas against vehicles. What I would give both Killa Kanz and Def Dreads is the Bikers smoke cloud 4+ cover

 happygolucky wrote:
Give a Deffdredd IWND as well and make if front AV 13

Personally, I would do something like Clunky d6 on every glancing blow - 1.extra glance point, 2. penetrating shot, 3. immobilized, 4. 6" of movement 5. No glance 6. remove 1 hull point of damage. I would also make them cheaper.

 happygolucky wrote:
Make Big choppas AP 4 but AP 3 on the charge.

actually I would reverse them 3 AP normally 4 AP on charge. The reason is when they are in the fight they are more focused on the weaknesses. Whe they are charging it more of a hit it where ever.

Big choopa:
+2S, unwieldly and a 1pt replacement for choopa.
Grouped with other special weapons (Big Shoota, Rokkit Launcha.. Burna when applicable)

Mob up:
Any unit may add a Slugga/Shoota boy to their unit for 7 pts for each Slugga/Shoota added.
This, I imagine, would be used as ablative wounds for various units. And I think that is fine.

Ork vehicles:
Can get Imperial Guard type smoke launchers for 5 pts.

Grot riggers act at the end of the Ork movement phase.


Weird boy:
Move to Elites; cheaper.
Rename 'Frazzle' to 'Stomp'

Nobz:
18 points

MegaNobz:
Allow bosspole, Waaagh! banner.

Lootas: Move to heavy. I think that hurts us, but they look more like a Heavy choice then an Elite choice.
Deff guns go from D3 to special D6
1: jam, no shots.
2: Heavy 1
3-4 heavy 2
5-6: heavy 3
Also, make them AP5 or AP6.
Allow one of the Meks to become the mob leader with Bosspole, Power Klaw, armour, etc.

Burnas:
Allow one of the Meks to become the mob leader with Bosspole, Power Klaw, armour, etc.

Tankbustas:
Remove glory hog
Gain Tank Hunter

Kommandos:
8 Pts per model.
4 of them may take special weapons.
The Burna costs +10

Trukks:
30pts, available for every unit.

Warbuggies:
25 points

DeffKopta:
30 points

Flash Gitz:
Allow Klaw, Boss Pole, etc..
Snazzguns:
range: 30" S: D6 AP4 assault 2
More Dakka: +1 shot
Shootier: +1 Strength
Blasta ammo: AP3, gets hot. *The unit may choose when to use Blasta ammo (including overwatch)

Big Gunz
Zapp Gun.
Each Zapp Gun rolls for strength separately.



With the large amount of 5+ cover saves and the KFF being reduced to 5+, it needs to change. Either reduce the price or it gives Stealth.


As for the SAG.. my suggestion:
It rolls 4 D6. Your opponent removes one roll, you remove another.
Tweak the SAG table.
Every '1' that remains, the Big Mek takes a wound.
Every '6' the remains, the squad the Big Mek is part of, takes a wound.

I like the 4d6 thing for the SAG, not sure about the 1 and 6 results though. I think if 1 hurts the Mek, perhaps 6 should help it. Random is only good if it awards both penalties *and* bonuses.

Not sure about the Flash Gits tbh. Even if they roll a 6, they'll still be pretty crap. Better AP is far more important for them than better S, and as you've made them they are kind of like crappier Lootas.

Zapp Guns should totally roll seperately. I'd make them d6+X rather than 2d6, just because it's faster if rolling many.

 Dakkamite wrote:
I like the 4d6 thing for the SAG, not sure about the 1 and 6 results though. I think if 1 hurts the Mek, perhaps 6 should help it. Random is only good if it awards both penalties *and* bonuses.

6: The final strength would still be 2d6, if one of those d6 is a 6, that means a minimum of S7
The '1' is bad workmanship, so it makes sense that it hurts the Bigmek. The 6 is not just a powerful value, its a Bzzaapful value. If the BigMek's Squad mates get hit by arcs of plasma/microwarps/etc.. meh, that is acceptable.

Not sure about the Flash Gits tbh. Even if they roll a 6, they'll still be pretty crap. Better AP is far more important for them than better S, and as you've made them they are kind of like crappier Lootas.

Looks like I forgot an edit.
I like Lootas (they tend to eat 20% of my army list points) but I think they are too good for what they are. I believe they should have AP5 (or even AP6).. they are not Autocannons. That would then leave the lower AP job to Flash Gitz, KMB and Big Gunz. That they also ignore cover and have decent AP would make them a nice unit to oust objective squatters. An ability that you are paying through the nose for too.

Zapp Guns should totally roll seperately. I'd make them d6+X rather than 2d6, just because it's faster if rolling many.

Ork kulture has a lot of randomness to it (oh 2nd ed. Pulsa rokkits), and randomness is made useful by numbers. The current mechanic for Zapp guns (target a unit, then roll once for strength) means that their strength results are too unreliable for attacking AV, and their few shots make them expensive and very situational Terminator poppers. Allowing each to roll 2d6 means more chances of getting a useful result for kicking in armour. And if a few extra grots have to die, then so be it.
An alternative could be to roll for strength before you choose a target.

How would you incorporate Dawn of War 2's beamy deffguns in keeping with the differences Deffguns have with autocannons?

^ for what its worth, I am making a squad of 'Lootas' from ~scratch, and I am basing their Deffguns on the idea of them being energy weapons (failed/cheap zapp guns). So for me, the idea of deffguns having beam-like shots is entirely within the norm of the standard Loota.

And should the next codex nerf Lootas and make Flash gitz better, I can then claim they are flash gitz.

Every time I play orks in Dark Crusade and Soulstorm I look at how awesome those flash gits are and how terrible they are on the tabletop and cry.

When the codex comes out... I'm thinking we will probably have to leave the Lootas on the shelf...They are going to get majorly nerfed...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
....and Kommandos will get better and actually become worth it... I've always wanted to run a squad of kommandos but there to expensive (money wise) to be worth it :(

I just gave some regular slugga boys a stealthy knife in a sneaky pose and painted them in mute colors with camouflage stripes across the skin. They look pretty cool to me. The official Kommando models, apart from the nob, are just so incredibly fugly to me. I'll never buy those or the tankbustas. Yikes.

tgjensen wrote:
I just gave some regular slugga boys a stealthy knife in a sneaky pose and painted them in mute colors with camouflage stripes across the skin. They look pretty cool to me. The official Kommando models, apart from the nob, are just so incredibly fugly to me. I'll never buy those or the tankbustas. Yikes.

You git, purple is the sneaky color!

'Cause you've never seen a purple Ork eh?

Admittedly, nobody would see a purple Ork coming. Sounds proppa!

tgjensen wrote:
Admittedly, nobody would see a purple Ork coming. Sounds proppa!

The Ork colors and their effects are as follows

Black='arder/tougher
Green=meaner/stronger
Red=Faster
Orange=More dakka
Yellow=Bigger boom
Blue=Luckier
Purple=sneakier.

Hey...we could make rules for those!

 Kain wrote:

tgjensen wrote:
Admittedly, nobody would see a purple Ork coming. Sounds proppa!

The Ork colors and their effects are as follows

Black='arder/tougher
Green=meaner/stronger
Red=Faster
Orange=More dakka
Yellow=Bigger boom
Blue=Luckier
Purple=sneakier.

Hey...we could make rules for those!

Sounds more like clan rather than colours, anyway.. i dont want to repaint 90% of my army xD

They are going to nerf the Lootas and still keep the Flash GItz fairly useless.
I would not give Lootas "Gets Hots" I would make lootas, Heavy Support and see if they stay usefull when they are stacked against BigGunz and Battlewagons.

Orange is a problematic color. Simply adding an additional shot for more dakka grossly overpowers certain weapons (especially one shot guns or weapons used in enormous numbers) while doing very little for others (big shootas rarely are fielded in enough numbers for one more shot to do diddly)

Hrmmm...

A lot of great stuff here, great work everyone.

Meks getting boss poles would be helpful along with giving Lootas, Burnas, and FLash gitz dedicated transports. They're the ones building them/converting them right?

I think the Waggghh could be kept simple:

Once per game until the start of the next Ork turn, all models with this rule (Orks) have the Pereferred Enemy rule against all enemy units for shooting, assault, and Overwatch. Simple, powerful, and useful. I almost never call a Waghhh currently.

Also, as been mentioned in previous posts, any Ork should always have 6+FNP with Painboyz (bought like Wolf Guard or Royal Court) upping a unit they join to 4+FNP for 50 points per model. Weird boyz would also be bought and assigned to units for 50 points each.

Basically any unit could add on an IC, a Painboy, a Weirdboy, and still be lead by a Nob/Mek. 4 Characters in a unit would allow you more flexibility in accepting/issuing challenges while not breaking the game and fully conforming to 6th edition rules and Ork Fluff.

Every boyz mob is just a roving gang seeking a good fight which Either hires or draws the attention of Painboyz, weird boyz, and the like.

Also the idea of paying for every Kan and Dred to have a 5+ Inv is a good one. Maybe expand that to Trukks, BW's and Looted Vehicles as well? Meks are just that awesome!!!

Okay, so how to compile all this into a big list into the OP?

How to compile? 1 post for everything in the Current Codex, in order so first Warboss etc. and then list everyone's ideas about how the Warboss should be listing current stats, but not points costs of course .

Then the next post could be about Big Meks. Yeah, I don't envy the OP here.

I just want a stats increase, such as base str 4 on my Boyz, and str5/T5 on my Nobz.. I'd like Kanz to be 12/12/10 and my Dreads to be 13/13/10 like in the Space Marine codex. Maybe a 4+ from my KFF to make footsloggin an option. And lastly some way to avoid and/or win challenges so that Nobz w/Powerklaws are actually useful like in 5th.

I just want to be on par with the other new codexes and be able to run more than just the trukk list. And that said I really like the ideas they're coming out with Grots, I hope they follow through with them.

 Kain wrote:
Playing space marine really makes me wish stormboyz and other jump infantry could assault fliers. Because hot damn was the valkyrie ride sequence awesome.

I kind of wish they repeated it later with some Chaos raptors to shoot down though.

I actually love this idea could be something like that:

Rule: Aim for the flyboy:

A squad of Stormboyz may elect to fly and attack a zooming flyer or swooping monstrous creature in the assault phase if they pass a LD check, if the check is failed the Boyz have had a change of heart and look for another target (may assault a target they can assault normally without any penalty). If the Leadership check is passed and the Boyz make their charge do the following:

-Count how many Boyz are within assault range (as per normal assault rules) every boy that is in assault range gets a auto S6 hit on the flyer, the boyz out of combat are considered to have flown up but missed their target.

-No matter the result of the combat, if the flyer is destroyed or if the flyer manages to survive the combat all the Boyz that were able to assault the flyer are removed as casualties as they have ended up as greasy green smears decorating the enemy flyer or caught in the dramatic explosion of the destroyed flyer or crushed by the monstrous flyers dead body.

Between you and me that seems pretty decent and sounds awesomely orky

I dunno if we need to make it more complicated than this;

>Death from da skies!: Stormboyz may assault fliers as though they were any other unit. The Stormboyz simply target the base of the flier, and make a dangerous terrain check in order to attempt the charge. In all other regards treat the flier as a Skimmer for the purposes of this assault.

Perhaps to this, add overwatch fire or turret weapon fire (perhaps turrets can overwatch at full BS?) and I guess any flier that can Vector Strike can perhaps do so before the melee is resolved.

 Dakkamite wrote:
I dunno if we need to make it more complicated than this;

>Death from da skies!: Stormboyz may assault fliers as though they were any other unit. The Stormboyz simply target the base of the flier, and make a dangerous terrain check in order to attempt the charge. In all other regards treat the flier as a Skimmer for the purposes of this assault.

Perhaps to this, add overwatch fire or turret weapon fire (perhaps turrets can overwatch at full BS?) and I guess any flier that can Vector Strike can perhaps do so before the melee is resolved.

Definitely less complicated I agree, just loved the imagery of orks with rocket packs slamming into a flyer trying to get their "rockets" to blow up

I'd also let stormboyz take tankbusta bombz for some added oomph against enemy flyboyz. For a cost per model of course lest we get a vehicle and MC devouring jump assault horde of doom for too cheap.

 happygolucky wrote:
Make Killa kanz and deff dredds have a 5+ inv save

Give a Deffdredd IWND as well and make if front AV 13.

Give all Ork units 6+ FNP

Also KFF should give all friendly units within 6" the Shrouded rule.

Make Big choppas AP 4 but AP 3 on the charge.

Imo Orks gameplay style are that there the toughest Xeno army out there and they hit hard when they do hit with anything, as well as having mad creations as well. I think Orks need this kind of thing back into the next Ork codex, but that's just my opinion

Also bring Mega derdds into it, the bigger the better and I would rather have big walkers for my army than having an oversized squig tbh but again that's just my opinion.

I agree with all of that, except the bottom possibly. I'd love a bigger Mega Dread as the Ork answer to the Dread Knight and derivatives, however, only if it's actually designed like the Forge World model.

I don't want any more goofy stuff like the Stompa. >_>

To those thinking of changing the Ork Deff Dread/Kans.. The problem is not in the Ork codex, but with the rules for walkers and vehicles.


*ponders*
It would be nice if they too could be red.

Another idea, especially with regards to helping footsloggers, would be to bring in the Dawn of War style "Tellyportas" as an option for Big Meks, so you can deep strike boyz mobs.

 Maurepas wrote:
Another idea, especially with regards to helping footsloggers, would be to bring in the Dawn of War style "Tellyportas" as an option for Big Meks, so you can deep strike boyz mobs.

Well, Orkz are described as having some of the best teleporation systems in the galaxy...yes, I like this idea.

Certainly a lot of interesting ideas being thrown around. Perhaps when I'm better rested, I can join in. Orks need some lovin'. And some WAAAGH!in'.

Welcome aboard. Next stop, KRUMPIN' GITZ!

I havent seen anything about Weird boy power changes but as they are my favorite characters I would like to comment.

I think Old Zogwort being the best weird boy should have 3 warp charges and warphead should have 2 while regular weird boys have 1.


Old Zogwort definitely needs at least a 3++ involve save and higher strength and initiative, it does not even remotely make sense that his initiative is only 2. I like his attack system but it would be nice if he had the option to discard nest of deadly vipers for a force weapon, or something similar. In terms of spells, I would love the option to have biomancy for the orks.

Finally I Old zogwart is taken as a War lord you should have the option to take more weird boys then usually and this would constructivly work as the nids with shadow in the warp. This would work perfectly with ork fluff since high concentrations of weird boyz disrupt other psycher powers.

I would also like to see extra power included when Waaaagh declared which I also agree should be restricted to War lord, which as mentioned early could be Old Zogwort. this would booast DTW or act as shadow in warp for other psycers. As an ork player Im just tiered of have no answer to strong psycher armys.

Ew, warp charges. When I found out Zogwart has to use these I never used him again. CBF learning the psyker rules.

With regards to the Weirdboy, I reckon they should give warpaint saves (6++) to any one unit for 1 point per model. I also like the idea mentioned way back in the thread of your Warboss influencing the type of WAAAGH you get depending on various (clearly clan defined) upgrades he could get. The Goff Bigga Boss would get a toughness bonus or FNP or something, and transfer a meaner and greener bonus of some kind to the boys on the WAAAGH (6+ FNP?)

For powers, I'd love to see assault from 'ere we go. Give me that and I will use these dudes every game.

Mainly though, would like to see them perhaps as an elites choice, with 1-3 Weirdboys per slot. Warphead could perhaps be the HQ variation or just an upgrade for any old Weirdboy to take. Non-warpheads also need to be cheaper, because really, even with better powers they'd still be pretty suck.

 gmaleron wrote:
Definitely less complicated I agree, just loved the imagery of orks with rocket packs slamming into a flyer trying to get their "rockets" to blow up

Pfft, no reason why it has to be fliers only that can be targeted by such an attack. They could have a suicide bomb attack like in DoW 2. If they fly over a unit, sacrifice models to perform bombing attacks. They can take a wargear option that makes the explosion bigger.

Edit: Oh look, another "me". This avatar is too damn popular.

 Dakkamite wrote:
Ew, warp charges. When I found out Zogwart has to use these I never used him again. CBF learning the psyker rules.

With regards to the Weirdboy, I reckon they should give warpaint saves (6++) to any one unit for 1 point per model. I also like the idea mentioned way back in the thread of your Warboss influencing the type of WAAAGH you get depending on various (clearly clan defined) upgrades he could get. The Goff Bigga Boss would get a toughness bonus or FNP or something, and transfer a meaner and greener bonus of some kind to the boys on the WAAAGH (6+ FNP?) .

I dont think it would be war paint save but more of a power generating save. Thats why I wouldn't say armour save. But at his price and with the fluff of being the most powerful weird boy I think a strong involve save is still warranted. He proble still die at the drop of hat even with a 3++

I didn't read every post but here are my ideas

Flasgitz are mercenaries so adding rules that allow you to take them as troops is silly. I think the best idea would be to remove flasgitz from the foc completely and treat them as elites but they can't ever score.

Second thing is that flashgitz are generally hired as crews and not as individual pirates so making a single flasgit unit cost:

300pts
10 flashgitz
all have snazzguns, ammo runt, eavy armor and nob statline.
The unit also has a chinork (basically a skimmer trukk)
Lastly unit may choose 1 snazzgun upgrade for free to represent why a warboss would want to hire a specific gang of flashgitz.

For 400pts unit flasgit unit maybe the famous Kaptin Badrukk's crew which has 9 flashgitz (with the above bling) and kaptin himself. Unit may also pick 2 free snazzgun upgrades.

Snazzgun's stats are 5str, 1 attack, 24 range assault, ignore cover, d3+2 ap

Snazzgun upgrades are

more killy = +1 str
more dakka = extra shot
more melty = -2 ap (basically snazzgun ap is d3), gets hot

Idk, I think 30pts a model would still force them into irrelevance with just what you're saying.

I think Three for the base squad(like Nobz), and the Snazzguns having 36" inch range, maybe 6 strength, and two base shots in addition to what you're saying should be done. Basically a suped up Shoota, which was the point.

I mean, why pay extra for something a Big Shoota will do more reliably for cheaper?

3 big issues with flashgitz are that they are in hs, lack transport and cost alot.

Taking them out of foc is fluffy and makes them free of competition.

Giving them a free trasport also solves the fact that you don't need to buy a separate trasport from hs.

300 points is pretty cheap for what you get.

Giving snazzguns more range, str and attacks makes them deffgunz.

 illuknisaa wrote:
3 big issues with flashgitz are that they are in hs, lack transport and cost alot.

Taking them out of foc is fluffy and makes them free of competition.

Giving them a free trasport also solves the fact that you don't need to buy a separate trasport from hs.

300 points is pretty cheap for what you get.

Giving snazzguns more range, str and attacks makes them deffgunz.

I think it would be better to make them Big shootaz as base and let you mod them from there.

 illuknisaa wrote:
3 big issues with flashgitz are that they are in hs, lack transport and cost alot.

Taking them out of foc is fluffy and makes them free of competition.

Giving them a free trasport also solves the fact that you don't need to buy a separate trasport from hs.

300 points is pretty cheap for what you get.

Giving snazzguns more range, str and attacks makes them deffgunz.

I would actually applaud having Flashgitz Snazzguns be the new Deffgunz in any new codex. Fluff-wise that's what they should be in every single respect. There's no justification in the fluff whatsoever for the Lootas to have a standard gun. I really, really hate that about them, it's one of the few things I thought was a step backward from the previous Ork Codex.

So, really, my ideal situation would be for Flash Gitz to take the current Deffgun role, and Lootas go back to having the option of taking weapons from other codexes with a stats decrease, as their fluff would entail.

The same for Looted Vehicles, imo.

I'd like that. It'd make Lootas more interesting and fluffy, and make the "new Lootas" less efficient (who needs Nob stats on a gun platform?) and so no longer an auto-include

Replacement for "Gretchin Mob", first draft.

Runtz Mob

"Runtz" is a word used by Orks to describe all the small, annoying creatures that infest any given Greenskin camp. When the time comes for battle, Ork Slavers (known as Runtherds) and Squig-Farmers (Pigdoks) assemble da runtz into mobz and use them for mine clearance, mobile cover, and any number of other horrible tasks



~Unit Type: Troops, Infantry
~Unit Size: One Runtherd or Pigdok, and between five and thirty Gretchin or Squigs (unit may contain a mixture of these)
~Wargear: Gretchin are equipped with a Grot Blasta. Runtherds have a Slugga, Grabba Stikk, and Squig Hound. Pigdoks have an 'urty syringe and Pigdok's tools

Grabba Stikk: Runtherds may choose to exchange all of their attacks in a melee phase for the same number of Grabba Atakks. Grabba Atakks are resolved at initiative step 10 against any model within 2" of the Runtherd, and roll to-hit like any other melee attack. However, if you hit, no wounds are inflicted ~ instead reduce the INT and attacks of the target by 1 (to a minimum of 1). This does not work on any model with a Strength value double or higher that of the Runtherd. You may freely choose which model or models within 2" to target, there is no need to spread the attacks evenly, though you must decide who to attack before rolling any to-hit dice.

Squig Hound: If you fail a morale test, remove 1d3 Gretchin to attempt the test again. A Squig Hound also counts as a Squig for the purposes of Get 'em boy and Gone Wild - note that it *will* be removed in the latter case.

Pigdok's Toolz: Pigdok's spend their whole lives raising Squigs, and the frequent and bloody fights in the Squig Pens have taught them a thing or three about patching up wounded beasts! Each set of Pigdok's tools confers a 6+ Feel No Pain effect on the Squigs in the unit. This effect will stack, becoming 5+ with two sets, and 4+ with three sets Remember, you cannot take Feel No Pain saves against Instant Death, which will affect Squigs a heck of a lot with only T2.

~Special Rules: Furious Charge (Orks, Squigs), Beasts (Squigs), Stealthed (Gretchin), It's a Runts Life (Gretchin, Squigs), Get 'em boy! (Squigs), Gone Wild! (Squigs)

It's a Runts Life: If a Runtz Mob is in close combat with the enemy, any number of your units may shoot at that enemy unit as per usual with non-template weapons. Any shots fired in this fashion are resolved as snap-shooting in every regard, except on a to-hit roll of 1 or 2, remove the closest model from the Runtz unit as a casualty. If any units choose to shoot in this fashion, even if no hits are scored and no Runtz removed, the Runtz Mob must pass a morale test at the end of the shooting phase or flee from combat. Count all casualties recieved from shooting into this combat towards Combat Resolution in the following melee phase.

Errata: If any other friendly unit is in the combat, or any IC attached to this unit, then you cannot fire into the combat. If multiple Runtz units are involved in the same combat, only remove one model per to-hit roll of 1, not one from each unit. A Runtz mob cannot fire while in close combat to take advantage of this rule!

Get 'em boy!: If an enemy unit of infantry attempts to flee a combat with a Runtz mob, roll 3d6 and compare this value to the number of Squigs in the unit. If it is lower, reduce the opponent's INT value by half (round up) for the purposes of attempting to break from combat, and in addition, inflict a number of wounds on the fleeing unit equal to the amount you beat this roll by (armour saves may be taken as usual)

Gone Wild!: If a Runtz mob ever fails a morale test and flees, the Squigs in the unit go wild and attack everything around them! Remove every Squig model from the unit as a casualty, and for every three squigs removed in this fashion, inflict 1d6 S3 automatic hits on every unit (friend or foe) within 6" of a model from the Runtz mob as well as the Runtz mob itself!

Errata: Roll all the dice only once, not seperately for each unit

~Options
Add Gretchin or Squigs to the unit for...........................................................3 points per model

For every ten Squigs in the unit, you may add one Pigdok for.........................10 points
For every ten Gretchin in the unit, you may add one Runtherd for...................10 points

For every ten Gretchin in the unit, you may join two of them into a weapons team armed with;
A Grotzooka..............................................................................................20 points
A Rokkit Launcha.......................................................................................10 points
A Big Shoota.............................................................................................5 points

Gretchin Weapons Teams

Gretchin Weapon Teams count as regular Gretchin for the purposes of being attacked, though they may only suffer Instant Death from blast and template weapons. If a wound is recieved by the unit (and doesn't cause Instant Death), roll a dice on the following chart;
1-2: A Grot has been cut down, but another takes his place! Remove one Gretchin from the unit and the team remains intact
3-4: The gun has been smashed! Remove the team, but add two Gretchin to the unit
5-6: The entire team has just gone SPLAT. Remove it as a casualty

If a Runtz mob runs during the shooting phase, any Grot Weapons Teams it possesses will be dissolved, adding two Grots to the unit. If a Runtz mob flees at any point, dissolve all Grot Weapons teams in the same manner.

Thoughts?

^ A few things:

Firstly, for every 10 Gretchin/Squigs it should be that you MUST take a Runtherd/Pigdok. That keeps in line with the background of these sorts of mobs.

Secondly, I'm not agreeing with some of your points values. It's the same number of points for a Grot as it is for a Squig. One has 1 S2 attack, and the other has 2 S3 attacks. Even so, I personally think Squigs should be tougher anyway.

Thirdly, while I like the idea of the weapon teams (and some BS3 Weapon Teams is a nice niche in an Ork army), your rules are far too overcomplicated. For starters, I'd stick with just offering Grotzookas as an option. Grotzookas are, after all, guns of stuff gathered together by Grots. They're good guns, so there's no problem there. I would, however, forget about the ID and the chart and all those shenanigans. Just say the gun gets hot or something. And as a final note, "dissolved" is a weird word to be using in wargaming rules...

My biggest problem is that buying a Nob a PK makes him moar expensive than a Meganob.

Thoughts on giving Gazghkull a carnifex sized model and a monstrous creature statline? He is twenty feet tall after all.

Just had a thought that just popped up:

Why not give a BW a massive Chainsaw upgrade, about the size as one of those Stompa Chainsaws lobbed onto the back? like a massive battering ram to open really heavy duty gates that a normal BW with a deffrolla simply wouldn't be able to do?

I have lots of Epic Ork stuff, and there seemed to be an upgrade you could get back in the day to equip what look like massive deff dread arms to the front of the vehicle.

Would be so keen to be able to do that

 Dakkamite wrote:
I have lots of Epic Ork stuff, and there seemed to be an upgrade you could get back in the day to equip what look like massive deff dread arms to the front of the vehicle.

Would be so keen to be able to do that

Perhaps it could give the deffrolla AP2 and armor bane?

Maurepas wrote:

 illuknisaa wrote:
3 big issues with flashgitz are that they are in hs, lack transport and cost alot.

Taking them out of foc is fluffy and makes them free of competition.

Giving them a free trasport also solves the fact that you don't need to buy a separate trasport from hs.

300 points is pretty cheap for what you get.

Giving snazzguns more range, str and attacks makes them deffgunz.

I would actually applaud having Flashgitz Snazzguns be the new Deffgunz in any new codex. Fluff-wise that's what they should be in every single respect. There's no justification in the fluff whatsoever for the Lootas to have a standard gun. I really, really hate that about them, it's one of the few things I thought was a step backward from the previous Ork Codex.

So, really, my ideal situation would be for Flash Gitz to take the current Deffgun role, and Lootas go back to having the option of taking weapons from other codexes with a stats decrease, as their fluff would entail.

The same for Looted Vehicles, imo.

Orks lack a mid range shooting unit. I still prefer my suggestion but lootas could use some tweaking:
------------------------------------------------
Lootas

unit composition 5-15 models, heavy support
15pts per model
wargear
autocannon

Any loota may replace his autocannon for
missile launcher with flakk for 15pts
lascannon for 10 pts

up to 5 lootas may replace autocannon for 30pts with plasma cannon

One model maybe a mekboy for free with kustom mega blasta
Mekboy may install "extra gubbins" for 25pts

Extra gubbins
A mek has "improved" looted gunz with his own designs. Before the lootas fire on a 4+ lootas gain 1 extra shooting dice (ie two plasma blasts, 3 autocannon shots etc.) If the roll fail the loota may not fire and suffers a str 3 hit for his weapon doing something other than shooting.

Looted weapons
Due to the non-ork tech. All looted which roll 1 during roll to hit may not fire the next time they are about to shoot (aka overwatch or normal shooting).

-----------------------------------------------------

Kain wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
I have lots of Epic Ork stuff, and there seemed to be an upgrade you could get back in the day to equip what look like massive deff dread arms to the front of the vehicle.

Would be so keen to be able to do that

Perhaps it could give the deffrolla AP2 and armor bane?

That is just silly.

Perhaps it could give the deffrolla AP2 and armor bane?

Nah I'd rather the arms were more dynamic, not just an upgrade to something thats already on the vehicle.

What would make the most sense is their being DCCW, but that would make Dreads useless. Maybe they could simply be wrekker ball/grabber klaw combined. Each turn for each such klaw on the vehicle you can pick a target within 2" of the klaw model and roll a d6 on the following table;

~1; The klaw has missed, no effect
~2-3; The target, if it is a vehicle, has been grabbed as per a Grabber Klaw effect
~5-6; The target recieves a S9 hit like a wrekker ball
~6; The target is both grabbed and struck with a S9 hit

Lootas

unit composition 5-15 models, heavy support
12pts per model
wargear
autocannon

Any loota may replace his autocannon for
missile launcher with flakk for 15pts
lascannon for 10 pts

up to 5 lootas may replace autocannon for 30pts

One model maybe a mekboy for free with kustom mega blasta
Mekboy may install "extra gubbins" for 25pts

Extra gubbins
A mek has "improved" looted gunz with his own designs. Before the lootas fire on a 4+ lootas gain 1 extra shooting dice (ie two plasma blasts, 3 autocannon shots etc.) If the roll fail the loota may not fire and suffers a str 3 hit for his weapon doing something other than shooting.

Not super keen on this. Would prefer, if Imperial Weapons are an option, to essentially go back to the days of using any or at least most Imperial weapon options. An "extra gubbins" style rule should not be optional.

Lootas certainly don't need to be made cheaper and more powerful either, though they definitely need to shift to heavy support

 Dakkamite wrote:


Not super keen on this. Would prefer, if Imperial Weapons are an option, to essentially go back to the days of using any or at least most Imperial weapon options. An "extra gubbins" style rule should not be optional.

Lootas certainly don't need to be made cheaper and more powerful either, though they definitely need to shift to heavy support

How are lootas more powerfull? While they are cheaper (by 3pts) they lose 1 potential shot and get moved to heavily contested heavy support.

I don't think it is smart to have a wide range of weapons for lootas to pick. What would happen to burnas? or tankbustas when lootas can take meltaguns and flamers?

Also not every loota pays a mek to pimp his gun. Some guns may even be fresh loot so thats why "gubbins" is optional.

-They aren't just "3 points" cheaper but rather 20%, which is an enormous price drop.

-Going from D3 shots to 2 shots is at least equal and more likely an improvement. I know I'd take 2 shots per turn over D3 and I imagine most other players would as well.

-They can now take Lascannons. Lascannon style shooting is the gaping hole in the Ork codex.

-Theres no chance of a misfire without the gubbins rule. Old style Lootas had a misfire rule, and I feel that any Orks using Imperial Tech definitely should have such a rule, and as your rules stand non-gubbins Lootas have very little about them thats Orky at all

-The point about Burnas and Tankbustas is valid, but we can simply restrict those weapons (ie, the guys who looted flamers are now Burnas not Lootas) as opposed to allowing just three different ones

-I'd be interested to see what Lootas are able to swap their autocannon for at a 30pt cost, you seem to have not added that part in

-The heavy support/elites thing isn't necessarily a nerf, though I would argue they are worse off for it. It definitely doesn't offset a 20% points drop nor the more reliable shooting or the Lascannon and flakk options

Honestly, if they just did a massive overhaul on how orks get into and behave in assault but got rid of Lootas entirely (or changed their role) i'd be happy. I only use them because i HAVE to, i dont like them. They are the only unit in the entire dex that you do NOT want in melee whatsoever, which goes against the orky code. The amount of changes i think would be needed for this though would be far more than i could pull out of my arse in a half hour or so, so im not going to bother.

Ive always been a fan of the idea that orks should be able to steal vehicles that have been wrecked, but not exploded, during a battle. I mean, Looted Wagons are literally shiny vehicles with a big gun the orks liked and decided to steal. Why not give Meks (or maybe Big Meks) the option to repair a fallen vehicle, friend or foe, and cause some chaos.
Obviously it wouldnt be AS strong as it was before, nore would it be a solid revival. Say roll a D6 and do the following...
1: Krap! - The Big Mek accidentally welded something he shouldnt have, and the wrecked vehicle explodes following normal exploding rules. (Vehicles with Ramshackle do not Ramshackle)
2: Botched it - Repairs unsuccessful and the ork accidentally damaged the vehicle further, preventing any further attempts.
3: So Close! - The Big Mek didnt revive the vehicle, but he can try again later.
4: Wirrrrr! - The Big Mek repairs the vehicle, but it goes berserk. Resolve a Ramshackle regardless of what the vehicle is, and it may tankshock both enemy and friendly units as it has no driver. If the vehicle does not explode after a Ramshackle, the Mek may try again. Vehicles that normally cannot tank shock or ram may still perform this action.
5: Sub-par Workmanship - The vehicle is revived with 1 HP, but is immobilized and can fire 1 of its weapons at BS2.
6: Orkish Satisfaction - The vehicle is repaired with 1 HP and may behave normally, but has BS2 instead of what it had before.

This would be done like normal Mek Tools so it would be in the shooting phase. It wouldnt be able to move unless your opponent didnt pop the vehicle again, but depending on the vehicle it could still cause a bit of trouble that shooting phase, or go Flat Out to get in cover for future repairs. Obviously it would give you a small point advantage depending on what the vehicle was (reviving a wrecked Railhead for instance could be ... devastating) so it has more chances to fail than succeed, but face it what Big Mek does anything anyway? Unless he has a SAG, in which case he wont be anywhere near a vehicle to repair, hes not doing anything but walking around.

I like Lootas, I just hate that the least choppy unit in the whole dex is an auto-include in every Ork army. Plus Deffguns are so lame compared to looted Imperial Guns

Ive always been a fan of the idea that orks should be able to steal vehicles that have been wrecked, but not exploded, during a battle. I mean, Looted Wagons are literally shiny vehicles with a big gun the orks liked and decided to steal. Why not give Meks (or maybe Big Meks) the option to repair a fallen vehicle, friend or foe, and cause some chaos.

I came up with a unit dedicated to this task a while back, you can see it here; http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/524390.page

 Dakkamite wrote:
-They aren't just "3 points" cheaper but rather 20%, which is an enormous price drop.

Hmm I guess you are right.

-They can now take Lascannons. Lascannon style shooting is the gaping hole in the Ork codex.

Lootas would also cost five bigshootas per model and shoot once per turn with bs 2.

-Theres no chance of a misfire without the gubbins rule. Old style Lootas had a misfire rule, and I feel that any Orks using Imperial Tech definitely should have such a rule, and as your rules stand non-gubbins Lootas have very little about them thats Orky at all

I personally would like to keep gubbins as an optional wargear. Maybe every roll of 1 during roll to hit prevents the model from shooting next ork turn (or firing overwatch during enemy's assault phase). This would make it stack with gets hot and extra gubbins

-I'd be interested to see what Lootas are able to swap their autocannon for at a 30pt cost, you seem to have not added that part in

Oops. I intended lootas were able to take plasma cannons for 30pts. I'll edit my post.

-The heavy support/elites thing isn't necessarily a nerf, though I would argue they are worse off for it. It definitely doesn't offset a 20% points drop nor the more reliable shooting or the Lascannon and flakk options

On a hilarious factor, it would be interesting if ork lootas Misfiring ended up firing at a different target within 10" of the unit originally being fired at. Just decide which units there are and roll a dice to find which one is hit, but it would of course require your own units to be a possibility since its representing an ork going "Ohhh, gak!"

Be something like Dont Press Dat! most likely. Roll a D6 before shooting but after declaring your target, if its a 1 something happened to the weapon unexpectedly and the ork veered off target, surprised at what his big gun just did. Cannot misfire onto units out of range or sight. If there are no other units within 10" if the intended target, the Lootas automatically miss instead.

That, or every To Hit of 1 veers off to a random unit nearby. That would be a little more lengthy of a shooting phase though unless you just had them all hit the same unit, rather than each 1 roll is randomized who got hit.

yaknow, something unlikely but if it happens something zany just happened lol.

So I drew up this after going through the entire thread, compiling many other peoples ideas and adding a few ideas of my own.

DISCLAIMER: I didn't come up with many of these. Some are my ideas, most aren't. So there

All units +1 str (Boyz str 4, Nobz str 5 etc)
Warboss, Ghazzy, Wazdakka, Zagstruk, Grotsnik, Snikrot+1 WS. (Ghazzy having lower WS than a Company master? Seriously?)

Special Rule: Orks don’t aim, they point and shoot. Orks use BS 2 for anything including snapshots

I’z da boss! Special rule: If a mob with led by a character fails a charge roll then you may choose to inflict a wound on the mob and re-roll the charge. If you fail again you may NOT inflict another wound and roll again

‘Eavy Armor price reduced to 2 points per model

Nobz PK now 20 points That goes for Nobz in boys mobz and Nobz mobz

Warboss upgrades +10 points each
(You may only pick one. You buy them during list making so no picking them before a match)
Dead 'ard: The wasboss has +1 toughness. When a unit successfully Waaagh!s, they gain +1 toughness for that combat round
Poison drinka: The warboss and the unit he is attached to is immune to the Posion special rule (any poison weapon that does not have a Str characteristic counts as str 3. When a unit successfully Waaagh!s, they are immune to the Poison special rule. for that combat round
Loota: Designate a Vehicle at the beginning of the match. If that vehicle is immobilized, wrecked, or explodes, place a marker next to that vehicle. This marker counts as a separate objective for the Ork army, and may be captured by any troops, Lootas squads, or the warboss with this rule
Flash Boss: The warboss's weapons and the unit he is attached to have their AP reduced by 1. When a unit successfully Waaagh!s, their melee weapons have their Ap reduced by 1 for that combat round (this stacks with the Choppas rule)
Speed King: the warboss and the unit he's attached to and any vehicle he is embarked on have skillful rider. All vehicles in the army may add +1 inch to their move in their movement phase but do not incur penalties for this extra inch. This stacks with Red Paint Job.
Sneaky: During deployment, d3 ork units in the Warboss' detachment may move 6 inches immediately after all units have been placed (including infiltrating units). When a unit successfully Waaagh!s, they count as having assault grenades

New Independent character: The Arch Arsonist of Charadon. Equipment: Skorcha, ‘Eavy Armor, Big mek statline with +1 wound, Bosspole, Powered Power Klaw, (Counts as Chainfist) Same special rules as a warboss. 190 points?

Kaptain Baddruk now HQ choice, Unaltered Warboss statline, 190 points, Assault Weapons +1 Attack for the mob he’s currently in.

Boss Zagstruk now HQ choice, Unaltered Warboss statline, 120 points

Boss Snikrot now HQ choice. Unaltered Warboss statline. Gives move trough cover to unit. Gives Infiltrate if he starts in a unit with out any armor upgrades. (6+ save) 110 points

Old Zogwort has Warp charge 3

Warboss on bike allows for one Warbikers mob to be troops

Big Mek +20 points Teleporta: A mek and any unit he is attached to may be moved to another location on the board as if they had deep-striked. If the Mek is held in reserved, the Mek and one unit of the play's choice may deep strike when he is deployed from reserve

Weirdboy price reduction to 45 points. Warp heads have warp charge 2

Nobz 15 points per model

Meganobz Bosspole upgrade

Burnas. Option for Trukk transport. Option for Nob with Skorcha

Tankbustas price reduce to 10 points per model. Option to take Trukk, Tank Hunters

Kommandos have stealth special rule. Price reduction to 8 points

Trukk price reduction to 30 points

Stormboyz price reduction to 10 points.

Warbikers Fearless special rule

Deffcoptas Nob and BP upgrade options

Battlewagon Kilkannon has 30” inches range

Dread has 13 AV on front

Kans unit size 1-5 Kustom Mega blasta +15 points, Rokkit Launcha +10 points

Looted wagon 12AV on front

FLASH GITZ
Price reduce to 20 points
Gitfinda: Flash Git weapons are twin linked
~Shootier: +1 strength
~More Dakka: +1 shots
~Blasta: As per usual, but the Gitz can choose not to fire it by passing a leadership test.
+5 points ~Longa Barrel: Weapon range increased by 6"

I'd love to see a squiggoth with rules like in dawn of war (but obviously smaller) where it can ram, basically i'm thinking a deffrolla-equivalent impact hits when it charges. I'd love for orks to get loads of extra, quirky options for low costs with low likelihoods of success.

I'd also like to see nobs and flashgits being built from the same unit, in elites - lootas should be moved to heavy, as they're the only orks with heavy weapons, and the heaviest firepower orks have.

can you imagine the fun of bringing flashgits, with snazzguns, on bikes. or have the option to include a flashboss, who boosts the nobs shooting, or a warboss, which is obviously the close-combat buff. warboss becomes WAAAGH!lord, to avoid confusion. I'd love to have nobs on bikes with snazzguns.

lootas as troops should never, ever, EVER be alllowed. ever. just because panzees are bringing massed S7 shots for troops doesn't mean we all have to.

the best thing they could do for orks, though, is have them as a parody race - they saw a stormraven, decided to make their own, it doesn't work so well 'cos they didn't stop adding armour and guns to it - a skimmer gunship, not a flier, with 1 turn of being a flier due to rokkit boostas.

if weirdboys could get a power which makes any vehicle within 6" (or the one their in, if they're embarked) a flier for 1 turn. as soon as the power stops working, they vehicle lands heavily, taking D6 S6 hits to the rear armour - you'll get to the enemy, but the vehicle probably won't survive.

i think lootas should have a random chart to roll on to see what gun they fire, like a weak, unreliable version of an obliterator. 1 it's a grot blaster, 2 a twin-linked big shoota, 3 it's an assault cannon type gun, 4 a deffgun, 5 it's a rokkit and 6 it's something mega, like a lascannon, or even a zzapp gun. roll after you declare a target, long as you're in 24" range, you'll probably get to shoot it. it just stops them from being the orks overpowered unit of doom, the go-to guy for standing a chance in a competitive game - with an updated codex, they hopefully won't need to be so good.

man i wish GW would read threads like this...

@Overlord Thrakka

Glad to see people are reading our ideas! Just seeing them here like this, I looked at everything in that post and thought "hell yes, give me that gak and Orks will be amazing"

As for the above post, I think the 1 turn fliers are the single best idea in this entire thread

I'm liking what I see there Thrakka.

Why Thank you

What did you 2 think of my transformation of Snikrot, Badrukk, and Zagstruk to normal HQs? Are they priced well for they're power? Are they TOO powerful?

And I love to hear opinion on my creation of the Arch Arsonist of Charadon!

And what of the heroes weapon skill? I find it silly that Ghazzy, the most powerful ork known to us, is no better in close combat than a Company Master with a Power Fist

Also I was considering making the warboss upgrades Warlord traits

Finally are the Flash gitz useful now? with the Edits that were made?

If meganobz don't gain the 5++ invuln like a termi , option for mekboy (pain boy equivalent)

Prefer Snikrot, Baadrukk & Zags to remain unit upgrades. But if they do become HQs..... make them 1/4 like daemon heralds.

Snikrot should have special rule to assault out of reserve.

Weird boys in an elite slot 1-3 & can join units like wolf guard would be sweet.

Boys mobz should be able to join if under the max # and retreating units could regroup if passing within x" of another unit.

 Overlord Thraka wrote:
Why Thank you

What did you 2 think of my transformation of Snikrot, Badrukk, and Zagstruk to normal HQs? Are they priced well for they're power? Are they TOO powerful?

And I love to hear opinion on my creation of the Arch Arsonist of Charadon!

And what of the heroes weapon skill? I find it silly that Ghazzy, the most powerful ork known to us, is no better in close combat than a Company Master with a Power Fist

Also I was considering making the warboss upgrades Warlord traits

Finally are the Flash gitz useful now? with the Edits that were made?

I think Gazghkull should not only get a higher WS, but also monstrous creature statlines, he's as big as a carnifex, S5 and T5 do not cut it.

As for your stats, they look pretty balanced considering the other characters that populate the herohammer scene.

"Follow me Lads!"

Any Ork boss worth following leads from the front, spurring the boyz under his command to greater feats of krumpin'. If a character or independent character is attached to a unit they may make a leadership test (alternatively a toughness test) to allow the unit to both run and charge in the same turn. They must end the run movement as the closest model in the mob to the enemy they intend to assault in the coming movement phase.

We could also add a rule where several characters who attempt this in the same turn end up fighting each other

 Dakkamite wrote:
"Follow me Lads!"

Any Ork boss worth following leads from the front, spurring the boyz under his command to greater feats of krumpin'. If a character or independent character is attached to a unit they may make a leadership test (alternatively a toughness test) to allow the unit to both run and charge in the same turn. They must end the run movement as the closest model in the mob to the enemy they intend to assault in the coming movement phase.

We could also add a rule where several characters who attempt this in the same turn end up fighting each other

I like this, being able to run and assault actually helps out the Orks get into chopping range a lot, and as this edition doesn't seem to like allowing you have anything be certain, a leadership on a mob rule's LD10 seems like a good compromise.

I hadn't even thought of Mob Rule.

Another thing I'd like to see (sure I've mentioned this already) is klan markings. They'd work like Chaos, though you'd probably have to purchase one for each unit. If your warlord and 50% of the units in your army are the same klan you can choose to make your army a klan army of that affiliation. If you do so, certain restrictions come into play and models with the associated klan affiliation get bonuses.

For instance
-Evil Sunz [Red]: Any Evil Sunz vehicle has RPJ (inc. in klan cost)
-Evil Sunz Klan: If your army is an Evil Sunz klan, your vehicles may also fire snap shots after turbo boosting and recieve the stealth USR. You may not take any walkers, big guns, or non-transported infantry in an Evil Sunz force.

-Bad Moonz [Yellow]: Bad Moonz add +1 S to all weapons, but gain the Gets Hot! special rule (lol)
-Bad Moonz Klan: Gain +1 to armour and +6" range on all weapons.

Those are some examples of what I mean, though I haven't attempted to balance them at all.

 Dakkamite wrote:
I hadn't even thought of Mob Rule.

Another thing I'd like to see (sure I've mentioned this already) is klan markings. They'd work like Chaos, though you'd probably have to purchase one for each unit. If your warlord and 50% of the units in your army are the same klan you can choose to make your army a klan army of that affiliation. If you do so, certain restrictions come into play and models with the associated klan affiliation get bonuses.

For instance
-Evil Sunz [Red]: Any Evil Sunz vehicle has RPJ (inc. in klan cost)
-Evil Sunz Klan: If your army is an Evil Sunz klan, your vehicles may also fire snap shots after turbo boosting and recieve the stealth USR. You may not take any walkers, big guns, or non-transported infantry in an Evil Sunz force.

-Bad Moonz [Yellow]: Bad Moonz add +1 S to all weapons, but gain the Gets Hot! special rule (lol)
-Bad Moonz Klan: Gain +1 to armour and +6" range on all weapons.

Those are some examples of what I mean, though I haven't attempted to balance them at all.

Brb my badmoon shootas greentide gonna go kill em self

 Dakkamite wrote:
I hadn't even thought of Mob Rule.

Another thing I'd like to see (sure I've mentioned this already) is klan markings. They'd work like Chaos, though you'd probably have to purchase one for each unit. If your warlord and 50% of the units in your army are the same klan you can choose to make your army a klan army of that affiliation. If you do so, certain restrictions come into play and models with the associated klan affiliation get bonuses.

For instance
-Evil Sunz [Red]: Any Evil Sunz vehicle has RPJ (inc. in klan cost)
-Evil Sunz Klan: If your army is an Evil Sunz klan, your vehicles may also fire snap shots after turbo boosting and recieve the stealth USR. You may not take any walkers, big guns, or non-transported infantry in an Evil Sunz force.

-Bad Moonz [Yellow]: Bad Moonz add +1 S to all weapons, but gain the Gets Hot! special rule (lol)
-Bad Moonz Klan: Gain +1 to armour and +6" range on all weapons.

Those are some examples of what I mean, though I haven't attempted to balance them at all.

Bad moonz 'ard shootaz may just win a shooting war against Tau fire warriors. That's pretty impressive.

Now I really want to see how our book is going to stack up against the seeming pile of absurdity that is the new space marines book, although luckily due to our generally poor armor saves we won't have to worry too much about Graviton guns.

Until we get our new codex, we could run those new BS super terminators as MANz

 Dakkamite wrote:
Until we get our new codex, we could run those new BS super terminators as MANz

Beakiez in Beakiez.

Even the Mekboyz thought it was a dumb idea.

Powered Choppa. Up grade for Boyz Nobz, Nobz, Big Meks and Warbosses. +15 points counts a power sword?

I kind of like not having power weapons. Orks are inefficient like that - instead of a handful of powered attacks they throw a bucket of regular ones or a bunch of overkill in the form of power fists.

That being said I think big choppas could do with the mace, axe, and sword division.

Big axe: +3S, AP4 I1
Big sword: +2S AP5
Big 'amma: +4S AP6

+4S at initiative may just be worth taking over power klawz if they're cheap enough.

I quite like the hammer idea. Double strength like a PK but bugger all AP and no Unwieldly penalty. Although we've already got the Tankhammer which is pretty much the same thing.

 Dakkamite wrote:
I quite like the hammer idea. Double strength like a PK but bugger all AP and no Unwieldly penalty. Although we've already got the Tankhammer which is pretty much the same thing.

Doesn't the Tankhammer have AP2?

I thought it was AP -, don't have my codex on me to check but if its AP2 its pretty neat

 Dakkamite wrote:
I thought it was AP -, don't have my codex on me to check but if its AP2 its pretty neat

Too bad Tankbustaz are so hard to keep a handle on.

Working on improving/creating the Ork heroes.

You'll soon have your MC Ghazzy!

Yeah TBs are AP -

Would be keen to see those Ork heroes. Been meaning to take a crack at them myself after seeing that Tuska da Daemon Killa thread

 Dakkamite wrote:
Yeah TBs are AP -

Would be keen to see those Ork heroes. Been meaning to take a crack at them myself after seeing that Tuska da Daemon Killa thread

Maybe I was thinking of those Forgeworld Superheavies that also have a Tankhamma.

How about making flash gitz better like this?

Snazzgun: 24", S5, AP3, Assault 2, Twin-linked

Whenever Flash Gitz fire their weapons, roll a D6 and apply the results before shooting:
1= Assault 3
2= +1 Str
3= Rending
4= Precision shots
5= Poisoned 2+
6= Haywire

Ok, that list definitely needs some work, but you get the idea...

Then Badrukk could have a special ability that lets your roll 2d6 or 3d6... or maybe just choose which one you want.

I've been thinking that a random table for kustom weapons might be fun too, although in my mind I pictured it being applied to a few different units: Flash Gitz would get dakkagunz or kombi-shootas with a roll on the chart, lootas would get super shootas with a roll, meks with big shootas would get a roll. Characters could get a roll on the chart for their shootas or sluggas for five points or so. Dakkajets could upgrade their guns for twenty points.

Roll a dice for each unit with this rule before deployment and apply the effects for the rest of the game.

1 - Bigshotz: all shots have +1 S.
2 - Skattashotz: twice as many shots, but -1 S.
3 - Hotshotz: all shots have the blind and melta rules.
4 - Longshotz: all shots gain rending and +12" range.
5 - Sharpshotz: all shots have the shred special rule.
6 - Potshotz: roll on this chart at the start of each shooting phase. On the roll of a 6, apply all the above effects, but also gain the 'Get's Hot' rule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A few more random ideas:

Cybork bodies could give +1 T or +1 W instead of an invulnerable save.

Kannon shell types could be renamed, slightly improved and maybe charge a little extra for the 'frag' option. Lobbas could be given a 'flakk' equivalent upgrade.

Shokk Attack Gun, Zzapp Gun and Kustom Mega Blasta could have new rules: I'm thinking something along the lines of roll 2d6 - highest result is S, lowest is AP - SAG gets large blast and Haywire, Zzapp Gun gets armourbane, KMB gets melta. Rolling doubles on the dice could cause some special result, like the current SAG.

Attack squigs should make a separate attack: I think one attack at Initiative step 5 would be good, with S 4, AP - and Concussive (representing the squig latching on to the enemy and distracting them, so the boss has a chance to get a hit n first). Squighounds can probably just use the same rules as attack squigs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Current rumours have orks building up 'waaagh points' for doing various orky things. If I was writing the book, here's how I'd do it (obviously a very rough draft):

Ork can have a Waaagh special rule. Different units have slightly different Waaagh rules, with their particular type noted in brackets.

Waaagh (Speed Freeks): units with this rule generate a Waaagh point every time they Turbo Boost or move Flat Out. You may spend a waaagh point to allow them to move an additional D6" in their movement phase.

Waaagh (Dakka Maniaks): units with this rule generate a Waaagh point every time they cause a unit to fail a morale test or be destroyed with their shooting attacks. You may spend a waaagh point in the shooting phase to allow them to make a second shooting attack, but all shots from that attack are resolved as snap shots.

Waaagh (Psyko Smashas): units with this rule generate a Waaagh point every time they successfully charge an enemy unit. You may spend a waaagh point in the assault phase to give them +1 attack per model.

Waaagh (Kompulsiv Skavengers): units with this rule generate a Waaagh point every time a vehicle (friendly or enemy) is wrecked or otherwise destroyed within 12". You may spend a waaagh point to have them grant It Will Not Die to any friendly vehicle unit within 12".

I don't see a single point there that I don't agree with. The WAAAGH points in particular sounds like it will be a blast, a bit like the SoB really

 Dakkamite wrote:
I don't see a single point there that I don't agree with. The WAAAGH points in particular sounds like it will be a blast, a bit like the SoB really

I'm thinking of the big kit being a monstrous creature warboss for the really big bosses who can throttle carnifexes and the like. It'd be a nice break from the flood of walkers and really should be walkers but are monstrous creatures because feth logic, we see.

Nobz w/ bosspoles for Lootas, Koptas, and whatever else I might've missed. Losing a squad of Koptas after one casualty is just not acceptable.

Ok here we go. Because I'm bored I decided to entirely re-write the ork codex, Or at least the Army list stuff. (part 1)

Ghazzy,


Kaptin Badrukk



Wazdakka


Old Zogwort


Moar to follow

I know that I personally would rather see Wazdakka made cheaper and weaker because the massive Wazdakka tax is one of the reasons Biker lists aren't that great.

The Blur Boyz are also pretty meh due to the Big Choppas

I like the Mad Boyz though and Zogwart getting a Force Weapon seems like a no-brainer

 Kain wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
I don't see a single point there that I don't agree with. The WAAAGH points in particular sounds like it will be a blast, a bit like the SoB really

I'm thinking of the big kit being a monstrous creature warboss for the really big bosses who can throttle carnifexes and the like. It'd be a nice break from the flood of walkers and really should be walkers but are monstrous creatures because feth logic, we see.

It could be a Mega-Mega Dredd with interchangeable option for a two handed Chainsaw or a very oversized minigun called a DakkaDakkaDakkaDakka 4000 blasta?

I just really like the thought of a Trygon being roundhouse kicked to the floor then being cut in half by an oversized chainsaw, then a really deep vice bellowing out "Here's Johnny" as he turns towards his next victim

 Dakkamite wrote:
I know that I personally would rather see Wazdakka made cheaper and weaker because the massive Wazdakka tax is one of the reasons Biker lists aren't that great.

The Blur Boyz are also pretty meh due to the Big Choppas

I like the Mad Boyz though and Zogwart getting a Force Weapon seems like a no-brainer

I personally thought he should be stronger, and the big choppas have a profile. STR + 2 AP 4 Melee, Two handed.

I thought madboys needed to be in the game and with the fact that all those weird boyz carry staffs I though they should do something

Perhaps a weaker wazdakka with the same biker are troops power can come from that gore-wheels warboss, his name currently escapes me.


Grotsnik



Boss Snikrot


Tuska Daemon Killa


Nazdreg



Boss Zagstruk

Does anyone else think Orks should have "Counter Attack" special rule. Subject to a (Leadership test)
As they would never just sit their and take a charge, they would almost certainly try and beat the enemy to the first punch.

And WAAAGH's would be good if they conferred a rule such as "rage" or "hatred" or "preferred enemy x" for the duration of the player and opponents turn. As well as the fleet rule, but the WAAGH certainly needs a buff, I never even use it most of the time.

Part 3

Warboss 80 points


Big Mek