(AP) Emergency manager: Detroit won't pay $2.5B it owes
By COREY WILLIAMS
Associated Press
ROMULUS, Mich.
Detroit's emergency manager says the city is defaulting on about $2.5 billion of debt.
Kevyn Orr said Friday that Detroit is asking creditors to take about 10 cents on the dollar of what they're owed. Underfunded pension claims will get less.
Orr spent about two hours Friday morning with dozens of people representing banks, insurers and companies holding Detroit debt. He told reporters earlier at an airport hotel in Romulus he wants to fix fiscal problems that have made the city insolvent.
He has instituted a moratorium on all of Detroit's payments on unsecured debt, seeking forgiveness of millions of dollars owed by the city.
He also said $1.25 billion will be set aside over 10 years for public safety, lighting and neighborhood blight elimination.
Perhaps the banks and creditors could return the money we taxpayers bailed their asses out with in 08, and then we could lend that money,with more favorable terms, to Detroit?
MeanGreenStompa wrote: Perhaps the banks and creditors could return the money we taxpayers bailed their asses out with in 08, and then we could lend that money,with more favorable terms, to Detroit?
Banks-most did actually. The other ones don't exist any more.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: Perhaps the banks and creditors could return the money we taxpayers bailed their asses out with in 08, and then we could lend that money,with more favorable terms, to Detroit?
You realize the only banks that haven't are the federally sponsored ones, right? Most paid them back within the fiscal year.
Alfndrate wrote: Have Kid Rock just buy the city? He's already doing everything else he can to help save the city, why not own it?!
He's touring right now...
He'll get to it.
(btw, he's touring with Uncle Kracker and ZZ Top )
I know, he was in Cleveland 2 weeks ago... And he's doing 8, count them 8 sold out shows in Detroit... Like I said, the man is trying the best he can to bring money into the place.
Hopefully they can use bankruptcy to re-organize. One thing I think they desperately need to do is move forward with their plans to blight & bulldoze a lot of those vacant homes - all those abandoned neighborhoods do nothing but breed crime, which feeds flight, which hastens the death spiral. I don't know how to deal with the rest of their problems, but this would help at least some.
I wonder if they're not eventually going to wind up under some sort of federal receivership; the problems here are too big for a single city to fix; hell, maybe too big for even the state.
SlaveToDorkness wrote: I'm thinking we wall it in and create a super-prison a la Escape from NY/LA.
I was so close to suggesting this. Instant income for the city in terms of money from the government for taking the worst criminals and keeping them locked away, as well as extra cash from reality shows!
Ouze wrote: Hopefully they can use bankruptcy to re-organize. One thing I think they desperately need to do is move forward with their plans to blight & bulldoze a lot of those vacant homes - all those abandoned neighborhoods do nothing but breed crime, which feeds flight, which hastens the death spiral. I don't know how to deal with the rest of their problems, but this would help at least some.
I wonder if they're not eventually going to wind up under some sort of federal receivership; the problems here are too big for a single city to fix; hell, maybe too big for even the state.
Detroit - the only city in American history to surrender to a foreign power, and now the largest city to ever file for bankruptcy. Also a bit of a gak hole these days, judging from the pictures people keep sending me of their libraries.
Anyhow, Detroit can restructure its debt through the bankruptcy and it'll likely also force the city in to making some hard choices that'll move it back to long term financial stability. But I think the issue is that this isn't really the end of Detroit's problem. I think there's probably a pretty big question to be asked about exactly what the city offers to encourage jobs and growth long term. The car industry made the city very rich, but car manufacturing just isn't centralised like that any more. So what industry and activity can actually be brought to the city to provide jobs and give the city a decent revenue base. Anyone?
sebster wrote: Detroit - the only city in American history to surrender to a foreign power, and now the largest city to ever file for bankruptcy. Also a bit of a gak hole these days, judging from the pictures people keep sending me of their libraries.
Anyhow, Detroit can restructure its debt through the bankruptcy and it'll likely also force the city in to making some hard choices that'll move it back to long term financial stability. But I think the issue is that this isn't really the end of Detroit's problem. I think there's probably a pretty big question to be asked about exactly what the city offers to encourage jobs and growth long term. The car industry made the city very rich, but car manufacturing just isn't centralised like that any more. So what industry and activity can actually be brought to the city to provide jobs and give the city a decent revenue base. Anyone?
Blight and Bulldose TM
And then what? Entice more manufacturing? Change the Union laws to make it more business friendly?
OH! I KNOW!
DISNEY LAND! That's what they need! A northern DisneyLand/World and move the Movie Productions there. It ought to be cheaper for sure than California/Florida.
They still have those close vehicle manufacture plants there right? Think instead of having all our MRAP's, MATV's, new Frag Eights. Possible ammo plant. Granted its military hardware gear but sliding a few manufacture plants there is cheaper then building one from the ground up. Also components for them.....wondering if anyone in the Pentagon/government picking up on that idea.
Isreal picked up a buttload of Frag Eights uparmor HUMVEE's from Afghanistan
South Korea looking into it (Frag Eights
Romanian government outright loves the MRAP and MATV and last I heard planning on extending their battalion to regiment size.
Poland inquiring about them.(MRAPS)
Germany might take a few Frag Eights...
UK looking at the Uparmor SF vehicles....Dune Buggies on steroids and speed
Couple Latin American country as interest in the Strykers.
88N pool is small so info pretty much passed along on our grape vine as heads up when we go into Afghanistan. Right now it seems we're trying to leave NOTHING.
Didn't some Rep there demanded Obama for help since they won the state for him or something silly?
edit
Not that I'm really concern. Couple years I be buying up property up there and commence the Caste System.....as I work on my Clan Widowmaker Assualt and Tactical Marines
I recall they just got something to the scale of 10 billion from the Fed Gov to slash and burn significant portions of the city that had been declared abandoned/condemned. It can definitely use it. There are portions of Detroit that aren't bad. Investment has gone into it, and it's nice. It's mostly along the river front though. Once you head inland across E. Jefferson Ave... well it's like entering a Mad Max movie.
My father grew up in Detroit. A couple of years ago we were there, and I had him take me through some of the area's he lived in. Let me tell you, I'd rather take a trip to Afghanistan then to do that again.
SlaveToDorkness wrote: I'm thinking we wall it in and create a super-prison a la Escape from NY/LA.
Having been through Detroit in the last couple of weeks I don't get it. Wipe aout all the buildings and just let them return to forest. You could make that a beautiful city.
Based upon this, why as Detroit not spamming out Zombie and post-apocalyptic disaster movies at a rate of knots? I'm looking at these picture and thinking if they tidied some of thiose streets up it would be a perfect Fallout set.
BBC are reporting the actual final debt to be nearer $21bn. That's allot of 4th July parades!
purplefood wrote: Everyone moves out of Detroit and the military get a great new urban warfare training environment/urban target range/weapons testing range.
Done.
Seeing as it started out as a series of British forts, returning it too its military roots might not be a bad idea.
Very sad to see a city like that go down the pan, I feel sorry for the decent folk trying to scrape by.
Question for those Americans in the know: what are gun control laws like in that part of the world? Was looking at the crime stats earlier and they are shockingly bad. The average police response is 90 minutes. Please tell me that law-abiding people are allowed to drive around in Sherman tanks, because this is a clear case of decent citizens needing guns.
purplefood wrote: Everyone moves out of Detroit and the military get a great new urban warfare training environment/urban target range/weapons testing range.
Done.
Seeing as it started out as a series of British forts, returning it too its military roots might not be a bad idea.
Very sad to see a city like that go down the pan, I feel sorry for the decent folk trying to scrape by.
Question for those Americans in the know: what are gun control laws like in that part of the world? Was looking at the crime stats earlier and they are shockingly bad. The average police response is 90 minutes. Please tell me that law-abiding people are allowed to drive around in Sherman tanks, because this is a clear case of decent citizens needing guns.
They're held by at least the same standards as the rest of us, no shermans, but if the citizens and police were allowed Shermans, the criminals would just get Abrams
But a quick glance at gun control laws in Detroit seem to suggest that it's highly regulated and discouraged.
Maybe unfortunate. that means city workers. I don't have a lot of sympathy for city workers' pensions. Thats a major problem across the country with unionized government employees. (looks at California)
Imagine your local big city selling off all of the art collections in its museums, possibly to other museums, but probably mostly to private collectors where such things may never be seen by the public again.
What's funny to me is that someone brought up OCP. I find that funny because the OCP headquarters was Dallas City Hall.
Lansing — Ruling the governor and Detroit’s emergency manager violated the state constitution, an Ingham County Circuit judge ordered Friday that Detroit’s federal bankruptcy filing be withdrawn.
“It’s absolutely needed,” said Judge Rosemary Aquilina, observing she hopes Gov. Rick Snyder “reads certain sections of the (Michigan) constitution and reconsiders his actions.”
The judge said state law guards against retirement benefits being “diminished” but there will be no such protection in federal bankruptcy court.
State-level legal skirmishing over the Chapter 9 bankruptcy effort by Snyder and Detroit Emergency Manager Kevyn Orr now will quickly move to the Michigan Court of Appeals.
Attorney General Bill Schuette, on behalf of Snyder, filed an application for Appeals Court consideration of Aquilina’s order an hour after it was issued.
Schuette asked the Appeals Court to put a hold on present and future lower-court proceedings and was planning to seek emergency consideration to expedite the process, said spokeswoman Joy Yearout.
While experts say federal proceedings take precedence, state-level legal maneuvering could delay the process. Pension board attorneys said their pleadings ultimately could wind up in federal court, too.
Snyder authorized Thursday’s bankruptcy filing in U.S. District Court in Detroit by Orr and his legal team. That was to set in motion a process, normally taking 30- to 90 days, in which the court determines whether Detroit qualifies for bankruptcy.
The filing involved a bit of courtroom drama.
With rumors it was eminent Thursday afternoon, attorneys representing the pension boards hurried into Aquilina’s court in Lansing to ask for a temporary restraining order.
But Snyder and Orr beat them by a few minutes. Aquilina, informed by phone, allowed the pension board lawyers to revise their restraining order request, then granted it.
Prior to her ruling on Friday, the judge criticized the Snyder administration and Attorney General’s Office over its hasty move to outflank pension board attorneys.
“It’s cheating, sir, and it’s cheating good people who work,” the judge told assistant Attorney General Brian Devlin. “It’s also not honoring the (United States) president, who took (Detroit’s auto companies) out of bankruptcy.”
Aquilina said she would make sure President Obama got a copy of her order.
“I know he’s watching this,” she said, predicting the president ultimately will have to do something to make sure existing city workers’ pension agreements are honored.
Pension board lawyers are contending federal bankruptcy proceedings shouldn’t put city workers’ retirement benefits at risk.
Southfield attorney John Canzano, representing several pension plan members, said bankruptcies of cities such as Stockton, Calif., have been handled in a way that didn’t compromise pensions.
Bailing out the auto companies (who, as I understand, were able to repay the loan with interest) would be a bit different than bailing out an entire major city.
Judge Rules That Detroit's Bankruptcy Is Unconstitutional, Ruling That It "Dishonors" Obama...
What you wrote, and placed in bold, implies that the ruling was predicated on the honor of the President of the United States. Of course this is not the case, as the article you cited notes. I hope that you are aware of this.
I think the issue is this blurb in the state constitution:
This is the specific Michigan State Constitutional provision at play. Section 24 of the Michigan State Constitution reads as follows:
Section 24: Public Pension Plans and Retirement Systems, Obligation - The accrued financial benefits of each pension plan and retirement system of the state and its political subdivisions shall be a contractual obligation thereof which shall not be diminished or impaired thereby. Financial benefits, annual funding. Financial benefits arising on account of service rendered in each fiscal year shall be funded during that year and such funding shall not be used for financing unfunded accrued liabilities.
Which... seems to be unconstitutional... basically that would give Detroit voters the right to vote themselves the wealth of Michigan taxpayers.
But remember, the bankruptcy is filed in FEDERAL courts, which has supremacy over the states (unfortunately ). This will get overturned.
Anyone find it creepy that a sitting judge would say this:
“It’s also not honoring the (United States) president, who took (Detroit’s auto companies) out of bankruptcy.”
Aquilina said she would make sure President Obama got a copy of her order.
Judge Rules That Detroit's Bankruptcy Is Unconstitutional, Ruling That It "Dishonors" Obama...
What you wrote, and placed in bold, implies that the ruling was predicated on the honor of the President of the United States. Of course this is not the case, as the article you cited notes. I hope that you are aware of this.
...basically that would give Detroit voters the right to vote themselves the wealth of Michigan taxpayers.
No, no it doesn't. It gives the employees of the state and its political subdivisions the the ability to vote themselves the "wealth" of anyone that is not an employee of the state, or one of its political subdivisions.
Remember... this is the city of Detroit. Let's say the Detroit's pension / benefits plans are truly shielded. How is Detroit going to pay for that? Will they ask the rest of the state to honor that now? (as the State law implies).
Did the rest of MI sign off those contracts? Did the rest of MI vote for the Detroit leaders? No...
...basically that would give Detroit voters the right to vote themselves the wealth of Michigan taxpayers.
No, no it doesn't. It gives the employees of the state and its political subdivisions the right to vote themselves the ability to vote themselves the "wealth" of anyone that is not an employee of the state, or one of its political subdivisions.
And that... spookey.
Bankruptcy is actually a good thing here as it reorganizes the finances to get on a more stable footing.
I did, and it was horribly written.
Right... so, they're "putting words" into the judge's mouth here?
She also ordered that a copy of her declaratory judgment be sent to President Barack Obama, saying he “bailed out Detroit” and may want to look into the pension issue.
Obama didn't "bail out Detroit"... it bailed out the Automakers there...
As some of you, I had to file bankruptcy personally. While I'm not an attorney, there's a gak ton of information on the web. The reason why what this state judge is doing won't stick is that the federal court system has exclusive and original jurisdiction over bankruptcies (28 USC § 133)... So this judge cannot order the case dismissed nor make a determination that the city of Detroit cannot file bankruptcy. The right to file is not impacted nor is the bankruptcy court bound by her order. The only input that states has is that they have rules which assest/credit can be discharged and by how much.
In fact, this is a good lesson in federal preemption... the federal law preempts the state law here. The MI constitution cannot strip any person or entity from it's *right* to *file* for relief under Title 11 (the US bankruptcy code); the best this judge can do is have the case before her stayed by the bankruptcy judge (which can happen) while the Detroit city bankruptcy is resolved.
But... for the sake of argument, let's say she's right. Then, I still don't understand how the MI constitution could have this extra-special authority to nullify Federal law to wish themselves unlimited amounts of other people's money. If it really works that way, what's to stop Arizona, say, from simply amending their state constitution to override Federal voter ID laws? Or Ohio from barring the enforcement of EPA coal-burning regulations?
azazel the cat wrote: Dammit, Canada has done relatively well about not buying toxic investments... and now you go an suggest we buy freakin' Detroit.
Don't worry, it'll be the Ontario Liberals who try and buy it up...
I mean, you're talking here about the morons who bought 3 seats in the legislature for $600million and counting buy illegally cancelling 2 gas-fired power plants.
Detroit in comparison looks like a real bargain!
Ouze wrote: Hopefully they can use bankruptcy to re-organize. One thing I think they desperately need to do is move forward with their plans to blight & bulldoze a lot of those vacant homes - all those abandoned neighborhoods do nothing but breed crime, which feeds flight, which hastens the death spiral. I don't know how to deal with the rest of their problems, but this would help at least some.
I wonder if they're not eventually going to wind up under some sort of federal receivership; the problems here are too big for a single city to fix; hell, maybe too big for even the state.
Remember... this is the city of Detroit. Let's say the Detroit's pension / benefits plans are truly shielded. How is Detroit going to pay for that? Will they ask the rest of the state to honor that now? (as the State law implies).
Did the rest of MI sign off those contracts? Did the rest of MI vote for the Detroit leaders? No...
See my drift?
No, I don't.
Please point specifically at the part of the constitution you think it violates.
You know....40K fans can have their very own Armageddon style Hive to play IG...or Orks....or SM....Detroit could be ground zero for the Zombie Apocalypse to.....
Every Canadian could now own their very own piece of the "American Dream". Just for $9.99 with a limit of two additional purchases plus shipping and handling, This once in a life time offer will never come again......
Jihadin wrote:Every Canadian could now own their very own piece of the "American Dream". Just for $9.99 with a limit of two additional purchases plus shipping and handling, This once in a life time offer will never come again......
The American Dream is well-past its 1976 expiry date.
Remember... this is the city of Detroit. Let's say the Detroit's pension / benefits plans are truly shielded. How is Detroit going to pay for that? Will they ask the rest of the state to honor that now? (as the State law implies).
Did the rest of MI sign off those contracts? Did the rest of MI vote for the Detroit leaders? No...
See my drift?
No, I don't.
Please point specifically at the part of the constitution you think it violates.
Is said "seems to be unconstitutional"... but, that's probably too strongly worded.
I mean, the STATE could conceivably step in and assume the debt... but, it doesn't appear so.
Looks like this is going through and one thing I didn't realize... the state/municipal's pension are not covered by that pension protection entity. That's going to be ugly. o.O
They could rent out the city to studios making post-apocalyptic movies.
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azazel the cat wrote: Dammit, Canada has done relatively well about not buying toxic investments... and now you go an suggest we buy freakin' Detroit.
Think of it this way. the place can't get worse. 30 years and it will have to have increased in value.
It's definately a fixer-upper. Some are suggesting we could do a flip this house move and sell it back at a profit. A flip-this-Detroit if you will but I still think Southern Ontario needs those Red Wings. You can keep the Lions though.
Jihadin wrote:Every Canadian could now own their very own piece of the "American Dream". Just for $9.99 with a limit of two additional purchases plus shipping and handling, This once in a life time offer will never come again......
The American Dream is well-past its 1976 expiry date.
1976? If the 80s weren't just a weird dream I don't know what they were.
Interesting to make the comparison between Pittsburgh and Detroit. Not that long ago the two cities were both in largely the same place, having lost their core industries (cars and steel). For a bunch of reasons that I don't think I've heard anyone properly describe just yet, Pittsburgh found itself new economic reasons for existing, while Detroit has not.
sebster wrote: Interesting to make the comparison between Pittsburgh and Detroit. Not that long ago the two cities were both in largely the same place, having lost their core industries (cars and steel). For a bunch of reasons that I don't think I've heard anyone properly describe just yet, Pittsburgh found itself new economic reasons for existing, while Detroit has not.
Well you'd first have to decide which fate is worse. Spiraling into bankruptcy, or becoming hipster central
sebster wrote: Interesting to make the comparison between Pittsburgh and Detroit. Not that long ago the two cities were both in largely the same place, having lost their core industries (cars and steel). For a bunch of reasons that I don't think I've heard anyone properly describe just yet, Pittsburgh found itself new economic reasons for existing, while Detroit has not.
Well you'd first have to decide which fate is worse. Spiraling into bankruptcy, or becoming hipster central
This is a quandary. To quote Billy Zane: "what to do, what to do."
Now Taiwan is getting into the act. Man, this video wouldn't be allowed to be made in today's politically correct America.
CBS Detroit wrote:
Taiwan Video Pointedly Mocks Detroit’s Bankruptcy Filing
DETROIT (CBS Detroit) The city’s bankruptcy filing has put Detroit in the crosshairs of every comedian from Chicago to Chattanooga.
And now Taiwan is laughing.
A company called NMA Animation, a Taiwanese animation company that pokes fun at the news of the day in satiric fashion, posted a pointed You Tube video mocking Detroit and its financial troubles.
At one point, an M&M gets shot and it takes police an hour to show up; in another scene, the RenCen swirls into a toilet. President Barack Obama takes the city’s request for a bailout, rolls it into a joint and smokes it.
What do you think? Perhaps the best takeaway is to not take it personally. The same animators posted take-downs of the new royal baby, the steroid scandal in Major League Baseball, and protests in Egypt.
This group also famously produced a video “recreating” the time Elin Nordegren did/did not attack a philandering Tiger Woods with his own golf club.
sebster wrote: Interesting to make the comparison between Pittsburgh and Detroit. Not that long ago the two cities were both in largely the same place, having lost their core industries (cars and steel). For a bunch of reasons that I don't think I've heard anyone properly describe just yet, Pittsburgh found itself new economic reasons for existing, while Detroit has not.
Looking at various media outlets, blogs, etc. They are blaming the downfall of Detroit on a combination of paranoid white people who "fled" the city whenever the mass of african-americans moved into it seeking economic opportunities during the perceived height of the auto industry. When the legal economic opportunities dried up, the illegal ones opened up, bringing a huge swell in crime rates. Of course, once all the "good" people left, and the majority of the drugs went with them, so too did a lot of the crime (apparently)... Now we're left with a shell of a once great city, waiting to refind, and rebuild itself.
Honestly, I doubt that it will be rebuilt on the back of a newly energized steel industry coupled with a booming art community as Pittsburgh was. Though, if we (America) can save some of the great landmark architectural pieces of the City (United Artists Theater, the Michigan Central Station or whatever it was called, that huge tower that's been basically vacant since the 90s) there are a good number of buildings that one could rebuild a great city on.
Maybe if we recycle the city.....go green or something to that effect......wonder how much copper been stolen out the abandon houses....actually never mind. I've a feeling the copper industry would boast in production for a couple months...
Ensis Ferrae wrote: They are blaming the downfall of Detroit on a combination of paranoid white people who "fled" the city whenever the mass of african-americans moved into it seeking economic opportunities during the perceived height of the auto industry.
Ensis Ferrae wrote: Looking at various media outlets, blogs, etc. They are blaming the downfall of Detroit on a combination of paranoid white people who "fled" the city whenever the mass of african-americans moved into it seeking economic opportunities during the perceived height of the auto industry. When the legal economic opportunities dried up, the illegal ones opened up, bringing a huge swell in crime rates. Of course, once all the "good" people left, and the majority of the drugs went with them, so too did a lot of the crime (apparently)... Now we're left with a shell of a once great city, waiting to refind, and rebuild itself.
Honestly, I doubt that it will be rebuilt on the back of a newly energized steel industry coupled with a booming art community as Pittsburgh was. Though, if we (America) can save some of the great landmark architectural pieces of the City (United Artists Theater, the Michigan Central Station or whatever it was called, that huge tower that's been basically vacant since the 90s) there are a good number of buildings that one could rebuild a great city on.
Honestly, I think race is a just a massive red herring, either in the 'white people left as black people came looking for jobs' sense above, or in the 'we all know but we're not going to say it' sense that SlavetoDorkness was playing at.
And the legal opportunities drying up and leading people into illegal opportunities isn't so much the why of the issue, but the what. The question is why those legal opportunities dried up and nothing was found to replace them (as happened in Pittsburg).
Like everything, I think much of the issue comes down to structural drivers that mostly get ignored, because identifying them prevents us from blaming someone and scoring some political points. Exactly what those drivers are in this case is the question. One interesting thing I read about Detroit, in comparison to Pittsburg, is that Pittsburg remains a mostly urbanised city, while Detroit is a more of a suburban sprawl. It's fairly intuitive to see that large city centres attract major business investment in a way that suburban sprawl just doesn't. People want their company HQs in vibrant city centres, not in the midst of large housing developments.
There's also the observation that sprawl plays a part in reducing social mobility - the economics of suburban sprawl tend to locate poor families in poor suburbs, which are almost always quite a distance from where the jobs are. It also tends to poduce high differentials in rates of pay, as you can afford to pay less if your business is located in a poor area. This means less poor people work their way up the economic ladder, as David Leonhardt discusses in this article http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/22/business/in-climbing-income-ladder-location-matters.html?hp&_r=0. From there, the argument can be made that social stratification can lead to economic decline (though that part is a fairly contentious claim).
There's also an issue of 'out of sight, out of mind'. Town renewal projects are highly political at the best of times, and well, if the poor communities are right next to the rich communities, the power players in government planning are going to be aware of those issues and want to solve them, if only so they don't have to walk past a crackhouse on the way to work But when there's sprawl those poorer communities can be out of sight, and therefore entirely out of mind of the politics of the city. Leave enough of those communities alone for long enough, and maybe you have a bigger chance of ending up like Detroit.
Those aren't complete answers, nor are they absolutely, 100% certain to be true. Because I'm really not sure at all how one city can lose its key industry and basically invent a new reason to continue existing, while another city cannot. But those ideas are maybe a start at why this sort of thing really does happen.
Those aren't complete answers, nor are they absolutely, 100% certain to be true. Because I'm really not sure at all how one city can lose its key industry and basically invent a new reason to continue existing, while another city cannot. But those ideas are maybe a start at why this sort of thing really does happen.
I think that, in a sense, nearly every "major" city will go through this throughout its life. Obviously Detroit is the most extreme example of this. Obviously I don't really have the best answer to fix their problems, but I personally would think that it could start with their art school/art community. I've also looked at some of the photo essays out there on the city's decay, and I think that with the right sorts of initiatives, many of the art deco period buildings could be saved, renovated and revamped, and then be used as a sort of lure, to get people to come back to the 'new' Detroit.
I don't really think that race had much to do with it either (it's just where many fingers pointed in many blogs and whatnot), and more to do with political policy and the fall on effects from those policy changes,etc.
Ensis Ferrae wrote: I think that, in a sense, nearly every "major" city will go through this throughout its life. Obviously Detroit is the most extreme example of this. Obviously I don't really have the best answer to fix their problems, but I personally would think that it could start with their art school/art community. I've also looked at some of the photo essays out there on the city's decay, and I think that with the right sorts of initiatives, many of the art deco period buildings could be saved, renovated and revamped, and then be used as a sort of lure, to get people to come back to the 'new' Detroit.
I'm not sure it's a fate every city will have, as the decline of steel and auto manufacture is not something that is necessarily going to happen to the primary reasons for being that many other cities have (unless we stretch out time to when the robots enslave us all). I mean, Chicago is a major logistics hub, and that's not really going to change so long as the rest of the country exists and moves things from place to place.
I'm also a little wary of redevelopment initiatives that give people a reason to live there (art communities, revitalising buildings) without giving businesses a reason to locate there. I mean, sure, bring back the people and businesses will come to service those people, but that's a bit like a population of sharks existing by eating other sharks in the community... there is needs to be an input, a money flow in to the community, because that community can export some good because it does it better than anywhere else.
That's complicated, of course, by the nature of the modern service economy, where there's really no geographical advantage to where you put your software or robotics industry. But somehow Pittsburg managed to attract new high tech business, and that drove its success.
I don't really think that race had much to do with it either (it's just where many fingers pointed in many blogs and whatnot), and more to do with political policy and the fall on effects from those policy changes,etc.
chaos0xomega wrote: Hmmm... detroit has lots of empty homes...
hmmm..... this country has big homeless problem....
hmmm.......
nope, should probably just bulldoze down most of it and only leave the downtown area intact.
You realize most of these homes in question aren't fit for rats to live in, let alone humans, right?
I've heard of efforts to get people to move back in, including those rumors of "$5,000 dollar homes", until I found out that apparently not only do you get the home, but all the debts that are attached to that property as well. Heck, I've seen homes as cheap as one dollar that have enough fire damage. You also have to take into account questions like "do I have running water here", "Is there electricity", and "is mad max going to drive through my living room tomorrow?".
There's a reason people haven't rushed up there to buy all that empty land. Well, reasons besides the fact that you'd be moving to Detroit.
I'm kind of wondering how long it will be until we see some sort of major incentive program in an attempt to get people to move back into the city. A kind of "Urban Reclamation" program if you will. Perhaps encouraging college students to move there with promises of a small home and a small chunk of cash to rebuild it, or perhaps some sort of tax benefit system. I'm not really educated on that kind of thing, so I have no idea how it would work, but it would be interesting to see happen. Maybe the unclaimed suburbs of Detroit will become the next wild west? If they had a really good incentive program set up I can't lie, I would have to take a look.
The construction of the new arena for the Red Wings might help a bit. The last major construction project like that in downtown Detroit was Comerica park, and that was about 15 years ago if I recall correctly.
There is also scuttlebutt that they might be trying to bring the Pistons back into Detroit as well, which could necessitate more construction, which would be a further boon for the city.
MrMoustaffa wrote: [I'm kind of wondering how long it will be until we see some sort of major incentive program in an attempt to get people to move back into the city. A kind of "Urban Reclamation" program if you will. Perhaps encouraging college students to move there with promises of a small home and a small chunk of cash to rebuild it, or perhaps some sort of tax benefit system. I'm not really educated on that kind of thing, so I have no idea how it would work, but it would be interesting to see happen. Maybe the unclaimed suburbs of Detroit will become the next wild west? If they had a really good incentive program set up I can't lie, I would have to take a look.
I also am intrigued by the possibilities of a 21st century Homestead Act.
I have to think that there is a lot of opportunity with the right training, zoning, and so forth to build an IT infrastructure there with the appropriate tax credits. Maybe insource some of those jobs that we've been sending to India for the last 15 years.
Ultimately I don't think anything can happen until the city falls under federal receivership of some sort though; which is probably it's ultimate destiny (imo). It's probably going to flounder around for a while first though; which is a real shame.
I'm actually avoiding the urge to check HUD for houses in Detroit...and the new guide lines Obama wants to apply to HUD...actually I might be wrong on that or misunderstood...still...not sure I want to see the prices on HUD.....
Jihadin wrote: I'm actually avoiding the urge to check HUD for houses in Detroit...and the new guide lines Obama wants to apply to HUD...actually I might be wrong on that or misunderstood...still...not sure I want to see the prices on HUD.....
Like I said, first you'll see prices and go "holy crap, I can own that house for 500 bucks?".
Then you realize these houses have massive leans against them, no running water, no electricity, probable fire damage, may or may not be infested with crackheads, cockroaches, or rats, and all sorts of other goodies.
To be honest, most of these properties are probably worth more if you just demolished the house and started over with a vacant lot.
MrMoustaffa wrote: [I'm kind of wondering how long it will be until we see some sort of major incentive program in an attempt to get people to move back into the city. A kind of "Urban Reclamation" program if you will. Perhaps encouraging college students to move there with promises of a small home and a small chunk of cash to rebuild it, or perhaps some sort of tax benefit system. I'm not really educated on that kind of thing, so I have no idea how it would work, but it would be interesting to see happen. Maybe the unclaimed suburbs of Detroit will become the next wild west? If they had a really good incentive program set up I can't lie, I would have to take a look.
I also am intrigued by the possibilities of a 21st century Homestead Act.
I have to think that there is a lot of opportunity with the right training, zoning, and so forth to build an IT infrastructure there with the appropriate tax credits. Maybe insource some of those jobs that we've been sending to India for the last 15 years.
Ultimately I don't think anything can happen until the city falls under federal receivership of some sort though; which is probably it's ultimate destiny (imo). It's probably going to flounder around for a while first though; which is a real shame.
It would be interesting. Detroit isn't the only city in the US with large sections of abandoned buildings. Phillie has that too and I know some smaller cities in NC and SC are like that and some places in Miami are starting to get like it too.
If Detroit would give me housing on the cheap, and give me incentive to move there and help me find a job before I did so, I'd be willing to move there. I could still see the Cleveland Indians, the Browns, and with the changes to the Red Wings, I could see the Ottawa Senators play .
JUDGE: DETROIT ELIGIBLE FOR IMMEDIATE BANKRUPTCY PROTECTION
DETROIT TO REMAIN UNDER BANKRUPTCY COURT PROTECTION, JUDGE SAYS
As somewhat expected - though hoped against by many Detroit union workers - Judge Steven Rhodes appears to have confirmed Detroit is eligible for bankruptcy protection (after pointing out that the city's accounting was accurate and it is indeed insolvent) making this the largest ever muni bankruptcy.
JUDGE RHODES SAYS HE WILL ALLOW PENSION CUTS IN DETROIT'S BANKRUPTCY
DETROIT JUDGE: NOTHING SEPARATES PENSIONS FROM OTHER DEBT
The city will now begin working toward its next major move - the submission of a plan to re-adjust its more than $18 billion in debt - including significant haircuts for pension funds (possibly 16c on the dollar recovery) and bondholders. With Detroit as precedent, we can only imagine the torrent of other cities in trouble that will be willing to fold.
He did provide an "out" though:
RHODES WARNS THE CITY THAT JUST BECAUSE PENSION RIGHTS CAN BE IMPAIRED, DOESN'T MEAN HE WILL APPROVE A PLAN WITH STEEP CUTS
Via Bloomberg,
Before the bankruptcy, Orr proposed canceling $3.5 billion in future pension obligations and at least $1.4 billion in unsecured bonds. The debts would be replaced with a $2 billion note paying 1.5 percent interest.
But, of course:
Detroit must ask “what is necessary to invest to attract business?” Spiotto said in a phone interview. “If you don’t solve the systemic problem, you are just going to repeat it.”
Summary from Reuters:
Detroit is eligible for the biggest municipal bankruptcy in U.S. history because the city is broke and without Chapter 9 bankruptcy would continue on the path that has led it to insolvency, a federal judge ruled on Tuesday.
The judge also ruled that while the city did not negotiate in "good faith" with creditors, there were too many of them to make such negotiations practical.
Appeals are expected, but the ruling by U.S. Judge Steven Rhodes sets the stage for Detroit to file a plan of financial readjustment by March 1. The city's attorneys said they were not sure if the filing would occur before the end of the year.
The ruling came 25 days after the end of an eligibility trial during which Detroit's labor unions, retirees and pension funds argued against the city's July 18 bankruptcy filing.
But when there's sprawl those poorer communities can be out of sight, and therefore entirely out of mind of the politics of the city. Leave enough of those communities alone for long enough, and maybe you have a bigger chance of ending up like Detroit.
