May be I'm just expecting something I shouldn't be entitled to but i thought if you buy a box set of something you'll get a small discount for buy bulk. So went on line and saw the "Iyanden Ghost Warrior 1-Click Miniatures Collection" and though that looks great I wonder how much that will save me ... add every thing it has to the basket and ... Nothing. Now its a one day sale and you'd think you'd get something special ... but no.

So I just can't see any reason in buying a box set. No discount ... so i might as well buy them separately. Any one got any idea about this? Is expecting a discount on a box set wrong?

(edit for the epic typo in the title)

Expecting a discount for buying something in bulk is absolutely normal. Companies do it all the time. Remember, however, that you are buying something from GW. The fact that they continually exploit their customers may be morally wrong to some, but the fact that we keep coming back for more makes them geniuses.

In other words, GW products are actually addictive drugs like Heroin. The FDA just doesn't have time to look into it right now.

 Icarusthepilot wrote:

In other words, GW products are actually addictive drugs like Heroin. The FDA just doesn't have time to look into it right now.

+1 - My new Signature

I remember the GW sales in the UK in 1997/1998.

They were kick ass.

I got a mahusive SoB army for £50.

It was at least 3000 points in 3rd Ed.

Gutted it got stolen two years later.

They do, war walkers come in packs of 3 for 75$.
It just if you buy an entire army at once, it isnt a discount.

Puscifer wrote:
I remember the GW sales in the UK in 1997/1998.

They were kick ass.

I got a mahusive SoB army for £50.

It was at least 3000 points in 3rd Ed.

Gutted it got stolen two years later.

that sale sounds amazing........ i am deeply sorry for your loss

I'm normally right up there to deride a thread for being "yet another GW whine" thread, but this even got to me.

"BUY LARGE PILE OF STUFF WE SELL NORMALLY. BUY NOW IN THE NEXT 24 HOURS AND GET IT AT 100% REEEEETAIL!!!"

Hilarious!

... so i look for another dealer and www.waylandgames.co.uk have a look at there miniatures and guess what? GW £407 ... WLG £298.40 ... saving of £108.60 ... saving a quarter by not supporting Games workshop directly.

WHY THE ON EARTH IS THAT SAVING NOT ON THEIR WEBSITE?!?

oh and

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
They do, war walkers come in packs of 3 for 75$.
It just if you buy an entire army at once, it isnt a discount.

Games work shop £47.50 for three ...WLG its £15.36 per war walker for 3 its £46.08 .... still saving you money

1 click bundles and the batrep armies are sold at normal price.

You will only get discount on the usual army box's
Not sure why they started this, because im yet to see one where i'll actually want everything included.

 Tri wrote:
... so i look for another dealer and www.waylandgames.co.uk have a look at there miniatures and guess what? GW £407 ... WLG £298.40 ... saving of £108.60 ... saving a quarter by not supporting Games workshop directly.

WHY THE ON EARTH IS THAT SAVING NOT ON THEIR WEBSITE?!?

oh and

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
They do, war walkers come in packs of 3 for 75$.
It just if you buy an entire army at once, it isnt a discount.

Games work shop £47.50 for three ...WLG its £15.36 per war walker for 3 its £46.08 .... still saving you money

It is different here. war walker pack of 3=75, 30 dollars by themselves.

 Icarusthepilot wrote:
Expecting a discount for buying something in bulk is absolutely normal. Companies do it all the time. Remember, however, that you are buying something from GW. The fact that they continually exploit their customers may be morally wrong to some, but the fact that we keep coming back for more makes them geniuses.

In other words, GW products are actually addictive drugs like Heroin. The FDA just doesn't have time to look into it right now.

Dude's right.

They are there so mom and dad and grandma can make an easy purchase for a gift for their kid's complex hobby.

Happens all the time in hobby/nerd retail - (from game stop to comic book stores) parents wanting to buy stuff, but not knowing the difference between such esoteric products.

They don't offer a discount because they don't have to. They know that if you're going to start an iyanden army, that you're going to buy a whole bunch of wraith stuff anyways. They don't need to entice you buy what you were already going to purchase with things like special sales and discounts.

I mean, it's sort of like going to a gun store, buying a gun, and then asking why there isn't a special deal on ammunition.

Why are we entitled to discounts? No other industry discounts when you buy more of a product

You get discounts from local retailers and other second hand online shops.

My FLGS gives a basic 20% reduction on everything GW.

And many dont, You are not entitled to a discount on things just because you buy alot.

 Tri wrote:
... so i look for another dealer and www.waylandgames.co.uk have a look at there miniatures and guess what? GW £407 ... WLG £298.40 ... saving of £108.60 ... saving a quarter by not supporting Games workshop directly.

WHY THE ON EARTH IS THAT SAVING NOT ON THEIR WEBSITE?!?

Just read this and thought "Ooo! Wonder if they have Wood Elf Wild Riders on a discount?"

waylandgames.co.uk wrote:RRP: £36.00 Now: £41.40

Sigh.

Az

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
And many dont, You are not entitled to a discount on things just because you buy alot.

You are not, however most offer deals on bulk costs in order to entice you to actually buy it.

GW seems to be trying to entice you to think these deals are just like other discounters, and thus you are getting a deal discount. Why would it be trying to entice you with "24 hours only!" for a specific deal?

 Ailaros wrote:
They don't offer a discount because they don't have to. They know that if you're going to start an iyanden army, that you're going to buy a whole bunch of wraith stuff anyways. They don't need to entice you buy what you were already going to purchase with things like special sales and discounts.

I mean, it's sort of like going to a gun store, buying a gun, and then asking why there isn't a special deal on ammunition.

not quite. Even most gun stores will give you a deal on bulk ammunition.

What this is akin to is if you walked into Sam's club, priced a 48 pack of toilet paper, and saw it costs the exact same as six 8 packs from Walmart. On most items, you'll get at least a small break for buying in bulk. GW has apparently come up with some sort of ingenious way to trick people into buying full price bundles.

it probably takes all of 5 seconds to set one of those bundles up. If they trick just one person with it, its paid off more than likely.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
it probably takes all of 5 seconds to set one of those bundles up. If they trick just one person with it, its paid off more than likely.

Nearly reflex purchased the deal myself ... I'm just glad i checked.

 Somedude593 wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
I remember the GW sales in the UK in 1997/1998.

They were kick ass.

I got a mahusive SoB army for £50.

It was at least 3000 points in 3rd Ed.

Gutted it got stolen two years later.

that sale sounds amazing........ i am deeply sorry for your loss

I had my SoB, Noise Marines, DE and Iron Warriors pinched. All in the same day, except my IW which was 2002.

Then I had my Iron Hands pinched in 2005.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Those Iron Warriors were my pride and joy. Fully converted up and won me two tournaments in Canada and forth at a uk GT.

I remember the buy two get one free blister pack/box set deals :(

Aben Zin wrote:


Just read this and thought "Ooo! Wonder if they have Wood Elf Wild Riders on a discount?"

waylandgames.co.uk wrote:RRP: £36.00 Now: £41.40

Sigh.

Az

Yep it looks like they get a discount for ordering bulk and then pass some of that discount on. Older ranges don't seem to get all that much business so go up in price. That said hats off to them for actually listing GW price so you know which is better.

Isn't there now some sort of law in the UK that stops monopoly's from having discount and sales? That's what I heard.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
And many dont, You are not entitled to a discount on things just because you buy alot.

You're missing the point, I think.

It's not that GW owes people discounts. It's that GW is very obviously trying to trick people into thinking that they're getting an unusually good price on something. It's like when a store doubles the price of paper towels and then advertises a 50% off sale. It's a dishonest practice that they shouldn't be allowed to do without very clearly noting that the price is just the sum of all the individual prices.

I'm of the opinion that the ability to purchase on the GW site AT ALL is an option predominantly used by non-players wanting to buy things for us.

I mean for feths-sake "Support your FLGS" is a creed followed by most within the hobby, and most FLGSs that I've seen offer occasional deals on minis.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Isn't there now some sort of law in the UK that stops monopoly's from having discount and sales?

Even if there was some law GW isn't a monopoly just for selling their own stuff. There's plenty other miniatures manufacturers on the market. If GW told independent retailers they can't sell other lines or how they have to price those compared to GW then there might be a problem. Discounts are fine, as long as you're not having a permanent "discount" on items just to make people think it's cheap when in fact that's the standard price.

Spetulhu wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Isn't there now some sort of law in the UK that stops monopoly's from having discount and sales?

Even if there was some law GW isn't a monopoly just for selling their own stuff. There's plenty other miniatures manufacturers on the market. If GW told independent retailers they can't sell other lines or how they have to price those compared to GW then there might be a problem. Discounts are fine, as long as you're not having a permanent "discount" on items just to make people think it's cheap when in fact that's the standard price.

I meant a monopoly / largest miniatures company in the UK.

That was what I heard, anyway. It was a long time ago.

The One-Click Bundles had me a bit puzzled at first but I'm completly lost as to why this is a "Super Duper One-Off Deal that you have to buy within 24 hours or your life will be void".

pantsonhead wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
And many dont, You are not entitled to a discount on things just because you buy alot.

You're missing the point, I think.

It's not that GW owes people discounts. It's that GW is very obviously trying to trick people into thinking that they're getting an unusually good price on something. It's like when a store doubles the price of paper towels and then advertises a 50% off sale. It's a dishonest practice that they shouldn't be allowed to do without very clearly noting that the price is just the sum of all the individual prices.

But...they aren't? It doesn't say anywhere that you are saving money.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

But...they aren't? It doesn't say anywhere that you are saving money.

They aren't what? They're not obviously trying to trick people into thinking they're getting an unusually good price on something? It's pretty silly to think that "it doesn't say anywhere that you are saving money" means that that's not the impression they're trying to create.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

pantsonhead wrote:
It's that GW is very obviously trying to trick people into thinking that they're getting an unusually good price on something.

But...they aren't? It doesn't say anywhere that you are saving money.

The limited time offer and big letters make you think it's a special deal, when in fact all you get is all the products added to your shopping basket with one click instead of several. Savings are never offered but the bundle did make people think there's an offer, either in money savings or something extra added.

Spetulhu wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

pantsonhead wrote:
It's that GW is very obviously trying to trick people into thinking that they're getting an unusually good price on something.

But...they aren't? It doesn't say anywhere that you are saving money.

The limited time offer and big letters make you think it's a special deal, when in fact all you get is all the products added to your shopping basket with one click instead of several. Savings are never offered but the bundle did make people think there's an offer, either in money savings or something extra added.

So? Did it flat out say that money is being saved? People making assumptions is not GW's fault.

I'm confused by your confusion. In the post of mine that you replied to, I went on to give an example of a practice I considered similarly dishonest - doubling the base price and advertising a half-off sale, which is likewise not actually claiming that you're saving money on the usual price even though it is creating that impression. I clarified further and said that GW needs to actually note clearly that you're not saving money on it. So obviously I was aware that they weren't saying explicitly that it was cheaper than it would usually be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

So? Did it flat out say that money is being saved? People making assumptions is not GW's fault.

This is probably not the place to hash out your peculiar views about what counts as dishonesty. Suffice to say that most people actually think that it's possible to be dishonest without saying anything which is technically untrue, merely by relying on people to make false but reasonable assumptions on the basis of what you do say.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

pantsonhead wrote:
This is probably not the place to hash out your peculiar views about what counts as dishonesty. Suffice to say that most people actually think that it's possible to be dishonest without saying anything which is technically untrue, merely by relying on people to make false but reasonable assumptions on the basis of what you do say.

This is the case in Australia. A complaint can be upheld if it is thought to be taken a certain way by a reasonable person. For example - advertising "unlimited broadband" plans that didn't have unlimited download quotas is not allowed, saying things like "but we were referring to unlimited time, not quota!" doesn't cut it.

There is no mention of savings here, but the intent and "limited time, act now!" could very well get them a "don't do that again" in Australia if people complained to the ACCC (Australian Competition & Consumer Commission) about it due to the intent being to deceive regardless of what was said. Maybe not though as they didn't profess any savings at all so it might fall below the "reasonable" threshold required. No reasonable person that I know would buy one of these.

pantsonhead wrote:
I'm confused by your confusion. In the post of mine that you replied to, I went on to give an example of a practice I considered similarly dishonest - doubling the base price and advertising a half-off sale, which is likewise not actually claiming that you're saving money on the usual price even though it is creating that impression. I clarified further and said that GW needs to actually note clearly that you're not saving money on it. So obviously I was aware that they weren't saying explicitly that it was cheaper than it would usually be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

So? Did it flat out say that money is being saved? People making assumptions is not GW's fault.

This is probably not the place to hash out your peculiar views about what counts as dishonesty. Suffice to say that most people actually think that it's possible to be dishonest without saying anything which is technically untrue, merely by relying on people to make false but reasonable assumptions on the basis of what you do say.

We all know GW has a legal department, it's the only business concept they endorse over editors, R&D, and play testing. So what they post on their site, be it deceptive or not, is legal.

 Goat wrote:
We all know GW has a legal department, it's the only business concept they endorse over editors, R&D, and play testing. So what they post on their site, be it deceptive or not, is legal.

Their legal team has recently proven to be fallible. Also, possession of lawyers in no way correlates with legality. If anything, possession of lawyers could be proportional to the prevalence of unethical and/or illegal acts ; p

 Yonan wrote:

 Goat wrote:
We all know GW has a legal department, it's the only business concept they endorse over editors, R&D, and play testing. So what they post on their site, be it deceptive or not, is legal.

Their legal team has recently proven to be fallible. Also, possession of lawyers in no way correlates with legality. If anything, possession of lawyers could be proportional to the prevalence of unethical and/or illegal acts ; p

Touche

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
And many dont, You are not entitled to a discount on things just because you buy alot.

No, I don't think anyone said you were entitled (I keep seeing that word applied out of turn, and it's troubling) to one. It is a common enough practice though such that people expect it when they hear the word bundle.

Phone companies give you a couple bucks off when you buy the phone/charger/case/fluffy throw-in "bundle".

Microcenter gives you a discount when you buy their processor/motherboard "bundle".

DirectTV et. al. gives you discounted service when you "bundle" multiple services.

It's a little different, but I can buy 100 DC voltage transformers for 3 bucks when one transformer runs me about 4.

Hell, GW used to give you discounts when you bought their bundles, except they called it a "Battleforce".

The expectation (which they have even previously set) is not an unreasonable one. Especially when this ultrahot 0% off offer is going on only for 24 hours, as if they're actually doing the customer a favor.

Games workshop should be more open about this, i don't think i would have been this upset if i'd known ... No what am i saying, Games Workshop should take at least 10% off, every where else give a discount hell even other companies selling GW products do discount. If they want to do 1 click items they should go into the basket as the individual items so people can make their own changes.

 Valkyrie wrote:
The One-Click Bundles had me a bit puzzled at first but I'm completly lost as to why this is a "Super Duper One-Off Deal that you have to buy within 24 hours or your life will be void".

Assuming you didn't buy it, how do you feel about your life now? I can feel a gapping void in my heart that could only be filled by a £407 Iyanden army bundle(total saving 0%), even though I don't play Eldar!

 shamikebab wrote:
I remember the buy two get one free blister pack/box set deals :(

Same.

That's actually how I got into the hobby.

Hospy wrote:

 shamikebab wrote:
I remember the buy two get one free blister pack/box set deals :(

Same.

That's actually how I got into the hobby.

That was a thing? When did they stop doing that?

 Ailaros wrote:
They don't offer a discount because they don't have to. They know that if you're going to start an iyanden army, that you're going to buy a whole bunch of wraith stuff anyways. They don't need to entice you buy what you were already going to purchase with things like special sales and discounts.

I mean, it's sort of like going to a gun store, buying a gun, and then asking why there isn't a special deal on ammunition.

I sure get a discount on ammo when buying in quantity, buying 50 rounds of 9mm is way more expensive (per round) than buying 100/200/500/1000 rounds of 9mm.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
They don't offer a discount because they don't have to. They know that if you're going to start an iyanden army, that you're going to buy a whole bunch of wraith stuff anyways. They don't need to entice you buy what you were already going to purchase with things like special sales and discounts.

I mean, it's sort of like going to a gun store, buying a gun, and then asking why there isn't a special deal on ammunition.

I sure get a discount on ammo when buying in quantity, buying 50 rounds of 9mm is way more expensive (per round) than buying 100/200/500/1000 rounds of 9mm.

Also, my previous example of getting transformers cheaper per unit depending upon the order of magnitude for which I order them.

I guess they don't because they don't have to.



No but seriously, why would they when they sell enough as it is? If their sales go through the floor, we might see a price cut, but that doesnt look like happening because we fething LOVE IT

But they don't HAVE to.

Also, I've always wondered how much the fact that bulk is cheaper isn't because by-unit has been arbitrarily made more expensive, not that bulk has been made arbitrarily cheaper.

Plus, there are plenty of things you don't get bulk rates on. If I go to the jeweller's and ask to buy a pair of wedding rings, they're not exactly going to offer me 10% discount if I buy three...

 Ailaros wrote:
But they don't HAVE to.

Also, I've always wondered how much the fact that bulk is cheaper isn't because by-unit has been arbitrarily made more expensive, not that bulk has been made arbitrarily cheaper.

Plus, there are plenty of things you don't get bulk rates on. If I go to the jeweller's and ask to buy a pair of wedding rings, they're not exactly going to offer me 10% discount if I buy three...

http://www.dollardays.com/wholesale-jewelry.html

Course it's not common, but still.

 Ailaros wrote:
But they don't HAVE to.

Also, I've always wondered how much the fact that bulk is cheaper isn't because by-unit has been arbitrarily made more expensive, not that bulk has been made arbitrarily cheaper.

Plus, there are plenty of things you don't get bulk rates on. If I go to the jeweller's and ask to buy a pair of wedding rings, they're not exactly going to offer me 10% discount if I buy three...

They may however throw in related services (refitting, polishing etc) for free or at a discount.


Ultimately, however, no, nobody *has* to, but in general bulk discounts are common, and serve to entice people to order greater quantities. I certainly wouldn't own my Eldar or Tau armies were it not for the Apocalypse packages released for them ~2006/2007ish.

 Ailaros wrote:
But they don't HAVE to.

Also, I've always wondered how much the fact that bulk is cheaper isn't because by-unit has been arbitrarily made more expensive, not that bulk has been made arbitrarily cheaper.

Plus, there are plenty of things you don't get bulk rates on. If I go to the jeweller's and ask to buy a pair of wedding rings, they're not exactly going to offer me 10% discount if I buy three...

Well, for custom stuff and things that require production runs, the manufacturing cost is overall cheaper the more of them you can do in a run. You see this a lot in made-to-order stuff like print on demand, screen printing on tshirts or other items, and shot glasses. I'd imagine electronics are similar. You batch print the PCB and have some Chinese guy who looked at the schematic earlier just churn out 100 of them in a day, rather than losing time making him stop to memorize another one.

Not to mention that the time spent packing them reduces somewhat as quantity increases to an extent. Finally, for large enough orders, the profit is great enough that you can let margin slip a tiny bit to allow for a competitive edge.

That last bit is probably the cause of our discussion, as GW appears to fail to realize they have the need for any sort of competitive price-point, as they fancy themselves the Lamborghini of what's already a luxury good.

So, in that case, if GW offered the same price, then GW would make more profit due to lower production costs, etc.

Of course, if you work for GW, you wouldn't be able to read past the part where I said "GW would make more profit". Really, there's no disincentive to just take the money, rather than to offer a discount.

I will agree, though, that it is in poor taste to pitch it as if it were at a discount when it isn't, even if that discount is only vaguely implied.

 Ailaros wrote:
But they don't HAVE to.

Also, I've always wondered how much the fact that bulk is cheaper isn't because by-unit has been arbitrarily made more expensive, not that bulk has been made arbitrarily cheaper.

Plus, there are plenty of things you don't get bulk rates on. If I go to the jeweller's and ask to buy a pair of wedding rings, they're not exactly going to offer me 10% discount if I buy three...

We're not talking about one, two or three models/boxes ... its 11 items. I would put good money on most shops being able to negotiate a discount ... heck if you go into a jeweler and ask for 10 weddings with a discount they'll be open to the idea.

pantsonhead wrote:
I'm confused by your confusion. In the post of mine that you replied to, I went on to give an example of a practice I considered similarly dishonest - doubling the base price and advertising a half-off sale, which is likewise not actually claiming that you're saving money on the usual price even though it is creating that impression. I clarified further and said that GW needs to actually note clearly that you're not saving money on it. So obviously I was aware that they weren't saying explicitly that it was cheaper than it would usually be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

So? Did it flat out say that money is being saved? People making assumptions is not GW's fault.

This is probably not the place to hash out your peculiar views about what counts as dishonesty. Suffice to say that most people actually think that it's possible to be dishonest without saying anything which is technically untrue, merely by relying on people to make false but reasonable assumptions on the basis of what you do say.

That's what i was thinking. It's dishonest and sleazy tactic.

He sounds like he's defending a scammer. If there was some guy selling bad product or faulty used cars or something he would probably defend that guy too.

kb305 wrote:

pantsonhead wrote:
I'm confused by your confusion. In the post of mine that you replied to, I went on to give an example of a practice I considered similarly dishonest - doubling the base price and advertising a half-off sale, which is likewise not actually claiming that you're saving money on the usual price even though it is creating that impression. I clarified further and said that GW needs to actually note clearly that you're not saving money on it. So obviously I was aware that they weren't saying explicitly that it was cheaper than it would usually be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

So? Did it flat out say that money is being saved? People making assumptions is not GW's fault.

This is probably not the place to hash out your peculiar views about what counts as dishonesty. Suffice to say that most people actually think that it's possible to be dishonest without saying anything which is technically untrue, merely by relying on people to make false but reasonable assumptions on the basis of what you do say.

That's what i was thinking. It's dishonest and sleazy tactic.

He sounds like he's defending a scammer. If there was some guy selling bad product or faulty used cars or something he would probably defend that guy too.

No, I'm not. I did not get any impression from that offer that you got any sort of monetary discount, and please don't resort to ad hominem.

I think offering a 24 hour short lived offer is slightly misleading in that people would normally expect a discount. That is what is typically suggested by the short period of availability after the new product is released, the exciting presentation, you think it's some introductory deal when it's nothing but a time saver.

GW don't mention a discount because there isn't one, there's nothing wrong in what they've done but presenting it in the manner they do, does play somewhat on customer expectations, meaning they think there's a discount involved.

Simply, buyer beware, know what you're getting. If they aren't trumpeting a discount then there probably isn't one of much note.

I don't think GW do sales or offers because they see themselves as a premium brand that has to maintain perceived value. Like expensive makeup or perfume, to discount it like they used to (drastic new year sales shifting dead stock) reveals the margin on these things and just how cheap they are to make. Also like clothing manufacturers that don't make large sizes because they don't want fat people to be seen wearing their brand, I feel there's an element of GW not wanting poor players. They don't want to encourage people buying cheap or getting into the game cheaply, they don't want third party manufacturers providing cheaper alternatives (a big part of their argument against Chapterhouse was devaluing their product image) kitbashing tables and scenery and doing things that are cheap and free. What they want is to sell everything at top prices, no discounts, to people with deep pockets who don't moan. People want to play but aren't rich aren't for them.

Vaktathi wrote:

Also, I've always wondered how much the fact that bulk is cheaper isn't because by-unit has been arbitrarily made more expensive, not that bulk has been made arbitrarily cheaper.

They may however throw in related services (refitting, polishing etc) for free or at a discount.

Once again, I question how much this is actually free. It seems more likely that you're paying the same amount for a ring and it's attendant services, but they just increased the price of the ring so that they could offer the services for "free".

Going from spending $480 on a ring and $20 in services to spending $500 on a ring and then getting free services isn't actually a discount.

In fact, one could make the argument that it's even less honest than what GW is doing at the moment.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

No, I'm not. I did not get any impression from that offer that you got any sort of monetary discount, and please don't resort to ad hominem.

Not the fact it was limited time only? Maybe i buy from e-buyer too often but limited time offer = discount.

Then again what was exactly limited? Being able select them all in one go? isn't that more of a negative? I know i wouldn't pick extra Wraith lords since i all ready have 4.

GW might still offer bulk discounts. 3 models, however, is hardly a bulk purchase. Try buying 300 of a 3-in-box models and see if that gets you anything.

 Tri wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

No, I'm not. I did not get any impression from that offer that you got any sort of monetary discount, and please don't resort to ad hominem.

Then again what was exactly limited? Being able select them all in one go? isn't that more of a negative? I know i wouldn't pick extra Wraith lords since i all ready have 4.

Not the fact it was limited time only? Maybe i buy from e-buyer to often but limited time offer = discount.

Does the limited time offer you are familiar with tell you that there's a discount? In my experience, whenever there is a discount it's mentioned somewhere. So to me limited time event =/= discount, discount mentioned = discount. The fact that it's for a limited amount of time does not matter to me. I look for numbers, not marketing hype.

It was limited because it went on for 24 hours. Kinda like their other so called "limited time offers" (you know, get this "special edition of this special bag / codex / whatever, that costs more and is just slightly prettier thing" they like to do these days)

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Tri wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

No, I'm not. I did not get any impression from that offer that you got any sort of monetary discount, and please don't resort to ad hominem.

Not the fact it was limited time only? Maybe i buy from e-buyer to often but limited time offer = discount.

Does the limited time offer you are familiar with tell you that there's a discount? In my experience, whenever there is a discount it's mentioned somewhere. So to me limited time event =/= discount, discount mentioned = discount. The fact that it's for a limited amount of time does not matter to me. I look for numbers, not marketing hype.

I counter this with the fact that GW had never openly told people how much their box set save. Eldar Battleforce is £70 and to buy them sperately it would cost £89 ... you will not find this figure on this page Eldar Battle Force. This is the whole reason i checked the price of the individual products, to see if it was a good saving ... it wasn't.

 Tri wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Tri wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

No, I'm not. I did not get any impression from that offer that you got any sort of monetary discount, and please don't resort to ad hominem.

Not the fact it was limited time only? Maybe i buy from e-buyer to often but limited time offer = discount.

Does the limited time offer you are familiar with tell you that there's a discount? In my experience, whenever there is a discount it's mentioned somewhere. So to me limited time event =/= discount, discount mentioned = discount. The fact that it's for a limited amount of time does not matter to me. I look for numbers, not marketing hype.

I counter this with the fact that GW had never openly told people how much their box set save. Eldar Battleforce is £70 and to buy them sperately it would cost £89 ... you will not find this figure on this page Eldar Battle Force. This is the whole reason i checked the price of the individual products, to see if it was a good saving ... it wasn't.

Not really a discount though, imo. It's just that the battleforce is cheaper than the individual kits, just as a pack of 3 sponges at the supermarket are cheaper than individual ones combined, or a 500g bag of shredded cheese is slightly cheaper than 2 bags of 250g cheese. I've never seen these larger bags say they are slightly cheaper than the individual kind; just like in the case of the battleforce, you have to do a bit of math yourself to work out how much cheaper it is. In the case of the one click offer, it is not a special set like the battleforce; it's just a way to add all of these things in one go. So continuing my analogy, instead of getting a 3 pack of sponges, you are getting 3 individual ones.

That said, the one click offer is a waste of time, and a clear case of GW having no sense of marketing. It is not, however, the greatest scam ever, nor does it warrant 2 threads full of ire.

The difference is that while one day you may use up all 3 sponges and eating 2x250 cheese is probably healthier then 1x500 , the battle forces are full of stuff you will never use. who cares if you get 2/3 of a unit for free , if it will never see play.

Makumba wrote:
The difference is that while one day you may use up all 3 sponges and eating 2x250 cheese is probably healthier then 1x500 , the battle forces are full of stuff you will never use. who cares if you get 2/3 of a unit for free , if it will never see play.

Only if you aren't creative. There's a reason why conversions exist.

Besides, warhammer isn't solely about the game; there's also the hobby aspect as well.

Out of curiosity, in what battleforce do you not use everything? In the battleforces I got (Orks and Lizardmen), I incorporated every single model into my collection.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Isn't there now some sort of law in the UK that stops monopoly's from having discount and sales? That's what I heard.

The monopoly law there is for predatory price and price gouging. Predatory would be when they sell it for below cost consistently to kill off any competition. Gouging would be raising the price to obscene levels and forcing people to buy it via the situation (AKA selling food after a natural disaster and obscene prices). This means that they can have special offers but it mustn't be a method by which to kill of other companies (take a hit now to solidify their stance later).

 Blaggard wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Isn't there now some sort of law in the UK that stops monopoly's from having discount and sales? That's what I heard.

The monopoly law there is for predatory price and price gouging. Predatory would be when they sell it for below cost consistently to kill off any competition. Gouging would be raising the price to obscene levels and forcing people to buy it via the situation (AKA selling food after a natural disaster and obscene prices). This means that they can have special offers but it mustn't be a method by which to kill of other companies (take a hit now to solidify their stance later).

Ah, I see. Well then, I guess there's no reason why GW can't have sales :/

That's kinda annoying...

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ah, I see. Well then, I guess there's no reason why GW can't have sales :/

... yep. Now just humor me and go look here www.waylandgames.co.uk .

Notice that many of the products are discounted. In order to do this Games Workshop must be making a profit and so must Wayland Games ... So if Games Workshop is happy to take a smaller cut ... why don't we ever see that? As i mention earlier i add every thing that was in the Games Workshop 24hour bundle and got it for £298.40. Now if i went and placed that order, Games Workshop would get much less as they are sharing less money with another company.

I would also have been a happy customer because the one click bundle would have saved me £108.60. So the other way of looking at this is every body that purchased the bundle was ripped off by at least £108.60 if not more.

That is a good point...out of curiosity, did you factor in shipping?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
That is a good point...out of curiosity, did you factor in shipping?

£7 Uk, £18 Usa ... oh and £11 France

Only? Odd, I thought it would be higher. I might have to start looking at Wayland then.

Its not only GW. the local sound and lighting company does the same. I had much the same experience with my old Djing hobby. Two mates and I calculated between us to purchase about $16k worth of gear figuring we could get a sizable discount for such a large purchase. We go into the local retailer, explain what we're after - salesman adds it up - ok that comes to $16,000 guys.
We ask - really? Can you offer us any kind of discount?
No..
Not even a dollar?
Not even a dollar guys.
Ok... Bye
Next day we order from an interstate website, save 30%. That was 7 years ago, never bothered with them since.

There's a reason why conversions exist.

\
And you convert a sentinal or a vyper in to what ?

Out of curiosity, in what battleforce do you not use everything? In the battleforces I got (Orks and Lizardmen), I incorporated every single model into my collection.

eldar-vyper
chaos csm-raptors/warptalons
space marines- assault space marines
tyranids-tryranid warriors
imperial guard-sentinal

For the viper, I would place the cannon on the bottom and use it as a special jetbike. It might not be the right size, but hey, it works. Sentinals are a tad trickier though.I guess it could work as a HWP in a admech army.

I've seen people use tyranid warriors, raptors and Assault marines, so I don't see how those are useless.

Just a recap on this because i don't want to start another i hate GWs Pricing thread ...

Don't buy the Apocalypse Formations.

Windrider Host £210.00 ... Contence 1 Eldar Autarch on Jetbike Upgrade Pack; 1 Eldar Jetbike; 6 Eldar Vyper Jetbikes; and 4 Jetbike Squadrons.

If you buy separately on the GW website that's £194.00 ... it also raises the question why would any one buy a single jetbike even for an autarch upgrade. Its only an extra £12 for 2 more jet bikes ... oh and £206 so still cheaper then the one click select...

I think I've given up on the GW website now.

I buy exclusively from Ebay and have for the last year or so...predator "one click collections" aside, I'm not going to buy from them when i can get 20-30% off elsewhere.

I work in sales for a living, I know what different tactics are employed by marketing types and I know how salespeople spin stuff. What GW is doing would be considered slimy by ANY reputable sales or marketing rep. It's deceptive, end of story.

 Tri wrote:
Just a recap on this because i don't want to start another i hate GWs Pricing thread ...

Don't buy the Apocalypse Formations.

Windrider Host £210.00 ... Contence 1 Eldar Autarch on Jetbike Upgrade Pack; 1 Eldar Jetbike; 6 Eldar Vyper Jetbikes; and 4 Jetbike Squadrons.

If you buy separately on the GW website that's £194.00 ... it also raises the question why would any one buy a single jetbike even for an autarch upgrade. Its only an extra £12 for 2 more jet bikes ... oh and £206 so still cheaper then the one click select...

I think I've given up on the GW website now.

Yeah, that is pretty dodgy. It's either they made a miscalculation, or they deliberately increased the price. Either way, this isn't good.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Tri wrote:
Just a recap on this because i don't want to start another i hate GWs Pricing thread ...

Don't buy the Apocalypse Formations.

Windrider Host £210.00 ... Contence 1 Eldar Autarch on Jetbike Upgrade Pack; 1 Eldar Jetbike; 6 Eldar Vyper Jetbikes; and 4 Jetbike Squadrons.

If you buy separately on the GW website that's £194.00 ... it also raises the question why would any one buy a single jetbike even for an autarch upgrade. Its only an extra £12 for 2 more jet bikes ... oh and £206 so still cheaper then the one click select...

I think I've given up on the GW website now.

Yeah, that is pretty dodgy. It's either they made a miscalculation, or they deliberately increased the price. Either way, this isn't good.

They based the price on individual jetbike and viper boxes, not the squadron boxes which save you money, hence the higher price.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Tri wrote:
Just a recap on this because i don't want to start another i hate GWs Pricing thread ...

Don't buy the Apocalypse Formations.

Windrider Host £210.00 ... Contence 1 Eldar Autarch on Jetbike Upgrade Pack; 1 Eldar Jetbike; 6 Eldar Vyper Jetbikes; and 4 Jetbike Squadrons.

If you buy separately on the GW website that's £194.00 ... it also raises the question why would any one buy a single jetbike even for an autarch upgrade. Its only an extra £12 for 2 more jet bikes ... oh and £206 so still cheaper then the one click select...

I think I've given up on the GW website now.

Yeah, that is pretty dodgy. It's either they made a miscalculation, or they deliberately increased the price. Either way, this isn't good.

They based the price on individual jetbike and viper boxes, not the squadron boxes which save you money, hence the higher price.

Now that's just silly. Understandable, but silly.

Even their marketing team have trouble believing that there are bundles, official, on GW site, that actually offer a discount. They probably shut it out of their mind in case they get a severe case of cerebral explosion.

GW doesn't discount on their retail prices because they don't have to. They know full well that people who want to can and will buy for less from FLGSes and online discounters. So you have to ask what does the 1 click bundle get them? They wouldn't do it if it didn't help them do something, and in this case I think it's a sales tool. It is directing traffic to the site, getting people a sneak peek at available formations, and getting people to supplement their armies by knowing what they need from FLGSes in the days before the book releases.

I have said this before, but GW doesn't actually care about new players as primary or secondary goals. They are pricing, designing and marketing to pre-existing customers thus they don't need to discount for you or the newbie. The newbie will buy full price cause they don't know any better, and you will buy at 20% discount but still buy cause your army is just slightly off. $100-$300 impulse upgrade purchase is all they need. GW is living off of pre-existing clients because this strategy ensures steady income. If they wanted to grow the base you'd see really entry level access points and deals. GW has settled into a business model that works. How many new model kits have they released this year? Maybe 20-25 total? Most of them $100-$300 army "upgrades" too expensive for newbies, but just right for us all to upgrade with.

I do not like it, the hobby is expensive, but...I'm addicted to the plastic crack and my dealer knows how to string me along. There is no advantage to discounts no matter how much I want them. Their business model is locked in and working.

@YakManDoo.
GW plc are not marketing to anyone.(They do not have a marketing department! )
Kirby wants the rules (codex) to pimp the latest minature releases to 11 to 16 year old boys.

GW plc charge over 4 times what it cost to develop and manufacture the products.
Because there are people out there who buy GW rules that do not care about game play, and people who buy GW product to keep their kids quiet.
And the addicts who can not quit their expencive plastic crack habit.

^ Actually a website is a marketing device as is WD

They produce marketing videos, and they produce t-shirts and swag...they have a marketing department. A marketing department's job is to increase sales and visibility in whatever form possible.

If you go to their site to look at models or deals, you have just participated in their marketing. No one wants these prices, and if it were really hurting them, then they would stop doing it as they are still a business that likes to make money. They haven't stopped doing it, so something must be working for them.

GW has a discount system it's called Wayland Games, The Warstore and others...THEY ARE THE DISCOUNT PROGRAM. The website works on existing players by driving traffic, showing off the Apocalypse formations, then having people say, "Hey, you know what? I only need unit X, Y, Z the new book, those new templates, and I can play Apoc! Whew I got away with a $300 investment and I'm still up to date! And I will pay 20% less with Wayland or some other discounter." GW still sells product, and oh look! The existing player base still bought models. The newbie, the under-a-rock living, or the non-cash conscientious buys direct and pays zero shipping. The pre-existing playerbase buys from Wayland and low and behold! GW sold you models either way.

My point to the OP is that GW is in fact discounting by having resellers. That is their discount program and their direct sales aren't as much about direct sales as they are a marketing tool to drive traffic that may or may not buy directly. They don't discount? They absolutely do, just not through their direct marketing channel.

If they weren't so hostile toward 3rd party retailers I would agree with that hypothesis

 shamikebab wrote:
I remember the buy two get one free blister pack/box set deals :(

I took advantage of one of those when the Sydney City store had its grand opening. Picked up 6 Chimeras for the price of 4. It was fantastic.

Last sale GW every had in this country.

YakManDoo wrote:
words

EA is The Worst Company in America ... however they do discount.

I have on and off been a supporter of GW since 3rd Edition of 40k ... that's almost 15 years. In the old days ...
I got discounts in from staff for buy lots of stuff
They would help the kid make their army (often letting them use glue and spray models)
If they wanted to shift more of X, they reduce the price a bit and/or have a painting/modeling competition (popular one had a prize of a dread)
If you got a box set there was a discount.
There were sales.
You could order individual parts for conversion.

In short I felt GW was a small company, that cared about having me as a customer. That's gone all that's left is the smiling people behind the till.

Have a nice day now.

YakManDoo wrote:
They produce marketing videos, and they produce t-shirts and swag...they have a marketing department. A marketing department's job is to increase sales and visibility in whatever form possible.

If you go to their site to look at models or deals, you have just participated in their marketing. No one wants these prices, and if it were really hurting them, then they would stop doing it as they are still a business that likes to make money. They haven't stopped doing it, so something must be working for them.

Marketing videos? You know that those videos are 100% private. You cannot find them on YouTube unless you have the link. They only show up because GW puts them on their website. Having a website is not advertising. Selling T-shirts (on your own website) is not advertising.

Advertising is ad-banners on high profile sites like Dakka, Whineseer, Taco Bell and TTGN.

YakManDoo wrote:
GW has a discount system it's called Wayland Games, The Warstore and others...THEY ARE THE DISCOUNT PROGRAM.

No. Those are stockists. Please learn the difference.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

pantsonhead wrote:
It's that GW is very obviously trying to trick people into thinking that they're getting an unusually good price on something.

But...they aren't? It doesn't say anywhere that you are saving money.

The limited time offer and big letters make you think it's a special deal, when in fact all you get is all the products added to your shopping basket with one click instead of several. Savings are never offered but the bundle did make people think there's an offer, either in money savings or something extra added.

So? Did it flat out say that money is being saved? People making assumptions is not GW's fault.

I'm a bit late on the convo but here's my take.

GW is basically hanging a sign outside of a bar that reads FREEofBEER!!!!

its just sad that they cant offer even a SLIGHT break on things like the apocalypse formations sets, you look at it like woah thats a lot of stuff and possibly a good deal, then you total its all up normally and its the same....

They now see themselves as a premium brand, and premium brands don't discount because it makes their product look less valuable and more obtainable than it actually is. GW seem to be thinking that like the perfume and makeup market, people feel they are getting quality when they pay a lot. They pay cheap and they don't value the product. GW would rather destroy excess stock than discount and clear it.

This works, and it is the only reason I can think of that explains why they are still making money. They sell trash like Finecast but insist on telling people it's great, that they are the world's best and that you can pay way more than is reasonable. But people buy in significant quantities so their strategy isn't that wide of the mark unfortunately. People like buying premium product, even when it's rubbish. Works for plenty of other industries.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
They now see themselves as a premium brand, and premium brands don't discount because it makes their product look less valuable and more obtainable than it actually is. GW seem to be thinking that like the perfume and makeup market, people feel they are getting quality when they pay a lot. They pay cheap and they don't value the product. GW would rather destroy excess stock than discount and clear it.

This works, and it is the only reason I can think of that explains why they are still making money. They sell trash like Finecast but insist on telling people it's great, that they are the world's best and that you can pay way more than is reasonable. But people buy in significant quantities so their strategy isn't that wide of the mark unfortunately. People like buying premium product, even when it's rubbish. Works for plenty of other industries.

The problem with that strategy is we've seen GW's financial reports, and their profit is effectively stagnant ever since the LOTR bubble burst. All the price rises and design changes since then have effectively amounted to nothing but lost sales. Considerable lost sales, in fact, given the scale of their price increases. I'm very curious as to what the next report indicates, as they've seen released the Hobbit to much, ahem, fanfare, changed their codex release rate completely, introduced 1-click bundles for the less savvy customer and aggressively gone after independent stockists.

Most of their recent profit in fact can be attributed to cost cutting and the fact that last year everyone who sold their paints had to dump their entire stock and re-order and entire new lineup. These aren't replicatable, at least not infinitely. They've been scrambling to cut costs and downsize their product line for years while raising prices and remain largely where they were before.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

YakManDoo wrote:
They produce marketing videos, and they produce t-shirts and swag...they have a marketing department. A marketing department's job is to increase sales and visibility in whatever form possible.

If you go to their site to look at models or deals, you have just participated in their marketing. No one wants these prices, and if it were really hurting them, then they would stop doing it as they are still a business that likes to make money. They haven't stopped doing it, so something must be working for them.

Marketing videos? You know that those videos are 100% private. You cannot find them on YouTube unless you have the link. They only show up because GW puts them on their website. Having a website is not advertising. Selling T-shirts (on your own website) is not advertising.

Advertising is ad-banners on high profile sites like Dakka, Whineseer, Taco Bell and TTGN.

YakManDoo wrote:
GW has a discount system it's called Wayland Games, The Warstore and others...THEY ARE THE DISCOUNT PROGRAM.

No. Those are stockists. Please learn the difference.

Please learn the definition of marketing.
Private or public? What?!? You know nothing about marketing. Did you go to the site? The site is a marketing tool by definition and is public by virtue of being on the web. Did you buy the video? No you didn't? Ah, then you just participated in this little thing the rest of the world would like to introduce you to...marketing. Selling T-Shirts is indeed advertising. Ever been to a concert and buy a t-shirt? Ever wear that t-shirt in a non-concert environment? You just played billboard...thus, you were the marketing.

The stockist program is the discount program. By offering a discount to a retailer, and allowing that retailer to discount (which GW is aware of) you effectively have a discount program.

GW does discount their product, and consumers can take advantage of those discounts...they happen to be with the stockists...

In Sydney Australia there used to be heaps of promotions, mind you I'm thinking back to when I was a kid maybe around 1997. I'm not sure at what point it all the discounting stopped, but here are a few offers I remember:

* For a while I remember them having a a booklet system where you got stamps and then once you reached a certain point you get a phat discount.
* I remember there being a freaking huge discount off gorkamorka when that was being phased out, something like 50-75% off
* Then there was another one where you got stamps for purchases toward your force organisation chart, then I'm pretty sure you got a huge discount.
* There was a buy 2 boxes get the 3rd for free, also buy 1 and get discount of the second.

It is kinda shameful how they treat their customers now (well particularly customers in the southern hemisphere) and I don't support them for it - I proxy all my models for GW with things like victoria's miniatures, kromlech, maximini, pig iron miniatures, king's of war etc.
When they get their act together, then they will see me return as a customer. I left the hobby for a couple of years and was brought back by the AOBR box set ($95AU), that seemed like a pretty hefty discount and a good deal. Now I consider I've stopped collecting GW at the release of DV/6th edition because it's not a good deal here in Australia ($165AU).

The reason why they have done away with all the discounting, simply put, is because most of our cohort have no self control when it comes to their wallets.

YakManDoo wrote:
GW does discount their product, and consumers can take advantage of those discounts...they happen to be with the stockists...

.... rrriigghhttt ... So that why they've changed their terms of trade, making it harder for those stockist? GW wants one price across the board. They don't want you to split up sprews, they don't want you using third party parts, they want your money. (Don't get me wrong I'm personally in favour of their idea of there being a shop to go to ... just not their method)

At the moment they're failing simply because they greedy. Little discounting here and there would make all the difference.

 Tri wrote:
.... rrriigghhttt ... So that why they've changed their terms of trade, making it harder for those stockist? GW wants one price across the board. They don't want you to split up sprews, they don't want you using third party parts, they want your money. (Don't get me wrong I'm personally in favour of their idea of there being a shop to go to ... just not their method)

At the moment they're failing simply because they greedy. Little discounting here and there would make all the difference.

Clearly, GW sees that it is for our benefit that we don't get to buy third party parts, or that heavy weapon arm from bits shop, or cheaper boxes, because they know the true value lies in you buying an extra box of marines for one extra arm, they're overdelivering values here, can't you see? If you could just take off those hate glasses, you'd be able to see how much GW cares! In fact, just add everything on their site to cart and pay, then go back to read each product's description after!

Post may contain sarcasm, and nuts, everything has nuts in it because we hate people with nuts allergy. NUTS.

Baronyu wrote:
Post may contain sarcasm, and nuts, everything has nuts in it because we hate people with nuts allergy. NUTS.

Hah. Like an old mate who bought a bag of nuts on the airport and happened to read the warnings on it. "Warning: may contain nuts!" I bloody well hope so...

It is kind of a bummer that official discounts are gone, and that prices keep going up. It sort of has priced me out of the game, but not the hobby. I used to be big into tournaments, so had several armies. Also, in order to be able to play in events like 'Ard Boyz, 100% were GW, or conversions out of GW bits. Things like that (discounts, tourneys, prize support, etc.) don't exist anymore, so why stick with GW exclusively?

Now years after selling my armies I'm slowly getting back into the hobby, but I mainly paint now. I do still like the 40k universe, but with lack of incentive to stick with GW exclusively (and my lack of playing time) I'm really branching out to other model makers. Why? For the price, GW models really aren't that good (except some scattered models and most of the Dark Eldar range). A lot of the poses are boring, the tanks are stale, and from a painters perspective, the detail is lower than what I would expect for the cost. Couple that with the lack of GW sponsored events that require GW products and I have been going more and more toward companies like Scibor and Raging Heroes for my model fix. They may even cost a little more sometimes, but the quality makes it worth it. When I paint them I feel I have to do them justice, rather than just feeling like I'm painting game pieces. Somewhere along the way GW lost that.

To be honest I don't even buy rulebooks anymore, due to how expensive they are. As a med student I understand expensive books, but a $250 Pharmacology Bible makes way more sense than a $250 game book.

Sorry, that sorta went all over the place.