This has probably been brought up before at some distant point in the past but here it is. Why do superheroes have abs? Superheroes need to overpower, outmuscle, outsmart and curbstomp large numbers of people. Abs aren't useful at all in any practical application and the enourmous amount of time it takes to grow them is time that can be taken to double both your arm and leg strength. I know how hard it is to grow abs and they donate very little. I've actually doubled by bench limit from 180 to 290 in the amount of time a trainer said it would take to grow some abs .There's no known limit to how strong you can get if you do it through training and the proper diet so why would you donate time to abs? I'm kinda just looking for a conversation and we all know the answer is marketing, but let's get some comments.
I remember a scene from Watchmen where Ozymandias catches a bullet in his hand by positioning and applying force to the proper areas with almost literally lightining quickness. That's probably possible & herein lies what batman style superheroes need. Lightning reflexes, a fearsome reputation, & the smarts to never end up in that situation. I look at it this way. If you go into the gym overweight but still fit you'll develop massive strength in the same amount of time it would take to get abs.
You've never read or heard of Watchmen? Naked omnipotent blue man ring a bell? I started the thread when I saw the trailer for Kickas* 2 and the abs on the main hero who still can't hold his own in a fight. I just thought it would be an interesting topic.
You already have abs ... they just are not showing as you have a fat percentage that is too high to show them. Can you work out your midsection to help reduce the fat cells in that area? Yes you can. Will the same amount of work show better in other areas? Yes it will.
The thing about working out is that you have to be serious about it and keep to a good regiment. When I joined the Air Force I was 121 pounds .... at 6 foot tall I was just able to enter into service ... if I weighed 2 pounds less I would not have been able to join. I got into working out while I was on active duty and bulked up to 180 pounds ... I was RIPPED up and it only took 2 years of hard work to get there. I had 4 of my six pack showing and I did very little abdominal work. Proper diet and hitting the gym was all I needed.
Superheroes have abs because comics are about idealised characters. They are smarter, stronger, better looking and braver than normal people, live vastly more interesting lives and in most cases have loads of money to spend on cool toys as well.
Drawing that fantasy means showing people in their idealised form - ie showing them with the kinds of muscle and shape that represents the idealised human form.
The idea that anyone writing these comics sat down and tried to plot out what the most effective exercise regime might be, and whether that should include abs or not is honestly just kind of silly. That's not how comics work.
Abdominal muscles are actually quite important for a wide range of activities. Not only are they supporting muscles, they provide protection for organs, as well as aiding in the rotation of the body when throwing elbows, punches, and kicks. This rotation is actually where most of the power comes from. Without strong abdominal muscles you'd be severely lacking in the strength department, despite strong arms or legs. I'd be quite skeptical of someone's true power if they did not have strong abs. So "donating" time to develop them is very important.
Barksdale wrote: Abdominal muscles are actually quite important for a wide range of activities. Not only are they supporting muscles, they provide protection for organs, as well as aiding in the rotation of the body when throwing elbows, punches, and kicks. This rotation is actually where most of the power comes from. Without strong abdominal muscles you'd be severely lacking in the strength department, despite strong arms or legs. I'd be quite skeptical of someone's true power if they did not have strong abs. So "donating" time to develop them is very important.
Whenever you throw a punch or a kick you twist and move your entire body in the direction of the punch and follow through. strong abs would help but I can tell ya they're not necessary to getting the maximum twist and follow through you can achieve. "severly lacking" didn't say I didn't have a well developed chest. And with high pain tolerance abs are useless in minimizing damage. Compared to strong legs or arms they donate very little.
121 pounds at 6 foot? Did you have an interesting relationship with gravity?
ThePrimordial wrote: Whenever you throw a punch or a kick you twist and move your entire body in the direction of the punch and follow through. strong abs would help but I can tell ya they're not necessary to getting the maximum twist and follow through you can achieve. "severly lacking" didn't say I didn't have a well developed chest. And with high pain tolerance abs are useless in minimizing damage. Compared to strong legs or arms they donate very little.
121 pounds at 6 foot? Did you have an interesting relationship with gravity?
Believe what you want about their contribution mate. I wouldn't believe someone was really that strong without a strong core. Anyway, I'd imagine superheros would have strong and well developed, well, everything. They are superheros after all.
ThePrimordial wrote: The thread would come to an argument over the usefulness of abs because there's little to say. Its not rocket science.
Not just the usefulness of abs, but they're usefulness to superheroes.
Which is like trying to discuss if Tony Stark is really operating his research company in the most efficient manner, or if Batman might be better off reforming Gotham through good works programs. They're questions that make no sense given what comics are.
A strong core is pretty important for running too. Of course, having a strong core and having six pack abs isn't necessarily the same thing, but it can be.
ThePrimordial wrote:I remember a scene from Watchmen where Ozymandias catches a bullet in his hand by positioning and applying force to the proper areas with almost literally lightining quickness. That's probably possible & herein lies what batman style superheroes need. Lightning reflexes, a fearsome reputation, & the smarts to never end up in that situation. I look at it this way. If you go into the gym overweight but still fit you'll develop massive strength in the same amount of time it would take to get abs.
Why do Superheroes exist? Surely open carry weapons and extended capacity mags for all the AR-15's Americans own would stop any super villans?
Theres no known limit to the amount of genocidal aliens you can shoot. My weapons trainer told me this and I have doubled the amount of dead evil entities he said I would be able to destroy.
. And with high pain tolerance abs are useless in minimizing damage
I think it is supposed to work on the same premise of being able to catch an extremely fast moving baseball without a glove and still avoiding injury. Basically, your hand has to move at a slightly slower speed than the object moving, while cushioning it's velocity and slowing it down. It is doable with a baseball. I do not recommend trying a bullet. Only an idiot would make an attempt with a bullet. I can personally attest to the fact that it works with a baseball though.
I'm pretty sure a baseball doesn't reach 1/4th the speed of a bullet(depending on calibre etc.), it also isn't made of metal, nor is it you know.. a bullet, it's not made for damaging.. things.
Through the miracles of science, we do know pretty much the limits the human body reach. Strong men for example are roughly as strong as a human can get without cheating (I e chemicals and robotics) watching the Olympics shows roughly how fast a human can run and watching a master martial arts instructor roughly shows the limits of the human reflexes.
No we can clearly see the limits, and no we certainly cannot catch a bullet, even cheating that isn't possible by a long shot. Also, high pain tolerance only limits how bad that bat to the gut hurts. It's does frack all to limit the damage caused by it, which surprisingly it limited by how strong your Core is. Do you think before posting or does it just vomit out of you?
<snip>It is doable with a baseball. I do not recommend trying a bullet. Only an idiot would make an attempt with a bullet. I can personally attest to the fact that it works with a baseball though.
Apples and oranges doesn't even remotely begin to describe the comparison you made.
ThePrimordial wrote: Whenever you throw a punch or a kick you twist and move your entire body in the direction of the punch and follow through. strong abs would help but I can tell ya they're not necessary to getting the maximum twist and follow through you can achieve. "severly lacking" didn't say I didn't have a well developed chest. And with high pain tolerance abs are useless in minimizing damage. Compared to strong legs or arms they donate very little.
121 pounds at 6 foot? Did you have an interesting relationship with gravity?
Believe what you want about their contribution mate. I wouldn't believe someone was really that strong without a strong core. Anyway, I'd imagine superheros would have strong and well developed, well, everything. They are superheros after all.
I won't get into how awesome I am like everyone else in this thread seems to need to, but it depends on your punching style, boxing draws a lot of power from the core on power shots where a less finessey mma style approach has you fire using your upper chest and back more so you don't broadcast and also delivers less power but you are less vulnerable since you are firing from a farther distance and are expecting to miss.
A lot of punching isn't following through it is snapping (which is much harder) which is harnessing the "reaction" of your punch hitting to "reload" your arm faster. if you were planning on following through and miss you are now off balance and a good opponent is going to lay you out in a heartbeat. With how superheroes fight all limbs are always at full extension so I imagine abs are pretty important, all we get are still frames but I'm thinking they just windmill their arms and legs and walk at eachother while talking.
Oh I'm also ripped get all the ladies and am the world high 5 champion... or so I say, this is the internet.
Whenever you throw a punch or a kick you twist and move your entire body in the direction of the punch and follow through.
As any competitive fighter will tell you, throwing everything you have behind a punch is usually very foolish. Not only is it extremely tiring, it leaves you vulnerable in the event that the punch does not connect. As such most punches involve leg strength in only a very minimal sense, instead relying on upper body and core strength.
Strong abs would help but I can tell ya they're not necessary to getting the maximum twist and follow through you can achieve.
If strong abs would aid in throwing a more powerful punch or kick, then they would absolutely be necessary for achieving the most powerful strike possible within the hard, physical limits of your physique.
Additionally, the notion that abdominal strength is more difficult to develop than any other form of strength is incorrect. It is more difficult to develop muscular definition in that area of the body, due the fact that humans use the core as the primary location for the storage of excess fat, but abdominal muscles are not especially different from any other skeletal muscle. They are, of course, smaller than several other muscles in the body, and therefore incapable of moving as much mass in isolation, but their physiological location makes them critical to any athletic movement.
Another thing to consider is that strength and power are different things. A person who can bench press 290 pounds may be very strong, but lacking in power due to a focus on the development of type IIA muscle fibers, as well a failure to develop the muscle memory necessary to properly leverage the muscle fibers they do possess.
And with high pain tolerance abs are useless in minimizing damage.
This is simply wrong. The ability to tolerate pain has no impact on the ability of the body to resist damage. A person may be able to tolerate the pain of a ruptured spleen, but their spleen will still be ruptured, and the consequences of such an injury will still exist.
I think it is supposed to work on the same premise of being able to catch an extremely fast moving baseball without a glove and still avoiding injury. Basically, your hand has to move at a slightly slower speed than the object moving, while cushioning it's velocity and slowing it down. It is doable with a baseball. I do not recommend trying a bullet. Only an idiot would make an attempt with a bullet. I can personally attest to the fact that it works with a baseball though.
The bullet dug itself into his hand about an inch and he was incredibly lucky.
gak like that isn't possible without a couple dozen pounds of luck
I don't like the plastic rings that go on top. If you don't twist them on all of the way, then the drink will dribble under the ring and onto your shirt.
Edit: Also, the turny thingy that turns the blade broke after less than a few months of usage.
xole wrote: I see it's a real slow day on dakka OT.
What is this about catching a bullet with your hand Mr. Primordial? Are you trolling?
The bullet dug itself into his hand a little over an inch, it was a .22, he had absurd quantities of luck, & he reacted to the shooter, not the bullet.
Yeah with absurd luck that's possible.
Random particles turning into gold spontaneously is possible & this is quite a bit less outstanding than that.
xole wrote: I see it's a real slow day on dakka OT.
What is this about catching a bullet with your hand Mr. Primordial? Are you trolling?
The bullet dug itself into his hand a little over an inch, it was a .22, he had absurd quantities of luck, & he reacted to the shooter, not the bullet.
Are you talking about the Watchman Comic book here?
xole wrote: I see it's a real slow day on dakka OT.
What is this about catching a bullet with your hand Mr. Primordial? Are you trolling?
The bullet dug itself into his hand a little over an inch, it was a .22, he had absurd quantities of luck, & he reacted to the shooter, not the bullet.
Are you talking about the Watchman Comic book here?
Yes I was referring to that. I even dropped the name "Watchmen".
People take the time to read all the comments when there's only 2 pages before commenting.
That was in the 3rd post in the thread.
1. This conversation has moved all over.
2. The Watchmen is a comic book. What happens in comic books is not always possible.
3. The bullet would have passed through a normal man's hand.
I don't like the plastic rings that go on top. If you don't twist them on all of the way, then the drink will dribble under the ring and onto your shirt.
Edit: Also, the turny thingy that turns the blade broke after less than a few months of usage.
kronk wrote: 1. This conversation has moved all over.
2. The Watchmen is a comic book. What happens in comic books is not always possible.
3. The bullet would have passed through a normal man's hand.
Not neccesarily. It would normally do that, but anything within reason is possible with luck as well as things that shouldnt be like spontaneous transmutation & combustion. The universe is primarily random splitting of atoms. He could have had freakishly thick skin on his hands & there was nothing stopping it from hitting a knuckle.
Theoretically, people can just fall through the earth- after all, there is space between all of our atoms, and if they aligned just right they should be able to pass through each other. Really, the idea of anyone catching a bullet and stopping it with their hand would have to a combination of dumb luck, solid steel bling, or extreme range. Just keep a bible in your breast pocket- that'll stop them.
Grundz wrote: With how superheroes fight all limbs are always at full extension so I imagine abs are pretty important, all we get are still frames but I'm thinking they just windmill their arms and legs and walk at eachother while talking.
It might just have something to do with a lot of them not being able to draw well.
And then you have melon-fethers like Greg Land. (I'm going to warn for NSFW just on the basis of... God dammit, Greg Land, stop tracing porn).
Theoretically, people can just fall through the earth- after all, there is space between all of our atoms, and if they aligned just right they should be able to pass through each other. Really, the idea of anyone catching a bullet and stopping it with their hand would have to a combination of dumb luck, solid steel bling, or extreme range. Just keep a bible in your breast pocket- that'll stop them.
Actually, the reason why we don't fall through the earth is because the electromagnetic fields from the 2 surfaces repel each other.
That sort of thinking isn't new; some military guy in the 80s iirc came up with the same idea, and thought it was possible to walk through walls.
I remember reading some article somewhere, it's been a while so I can't really find it, about him thinking to himself to the affect "there are spaces between atoms. So that means if I were to try hard enough, I can force my way through walls" So he got up out of his chair, walked over to the nearest wall...and whacked straight into it. I believe this incident may have been covered in the film "the men who stare at goats."
timetowaste85 wrote: I think it is supposed to work on the same premise of being able to catch an extremely fast moving baseball without a glove and still avoiding injury. Basically, your hand has to move at a slightly slower speed than the object moving, while cushioning it's velocity and slowing it down. It is doable with a baseball.
Given there's a sport called cricket where you have to catch a ball that's travels as fast as, and is as hard as a baseball, and you don't get a glove, I can tell that it's not only possible, it gets done every weekend on a regular basis And the technique isn't to move your hand before the ball comes - that's soft and leads to dropped catches. Instead you just let the ball come in to your hands, and on impact your fingers instinctively grip around the ball, while your hands move back with the speed of the ball.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Cricket balls are fast? I remember them being quite slow.
Did you ever play any of the silly positions when fielding? That'd change your mind right quick.
Quick wiki work says that baseball and cricket have similar highest speeds (169 and 161km/h respectively) for pitching/bowling with baseball apparently "higher on average", but that's probably because you don't get spinners being quite as important in baseball as in cricket, and also don't baseball games just last the night? Cricket balls are heavier (156-164g) compared to baseballs (146-149g)
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Cricket balls are fast? I remember them being quite slow.
They're as fast as the bowler releases them, or as fast as the batsman hits them. And, thanks to the work down by motyak, we can see the speed of the bowler compares more or less with the speed of the pitcher (with an advantage to the pitcher, as being able to bend your arm is a bigger advantage than getting a run up).
But then you don't catch what's bowled/thrown, you catch what is hit, and so then the question is how fast it comes off the bat. And the answer to that, again, is about the same. The longest home runs come in around 450 feet, while the longest hits in cricket come in over 150 metres (likely due to the cricket bat being bigger than a baseball bat but its much of a muchness).
Not that that's really the measure either, because the hardest chances aren't taken out on the boundary, but in close, so well... just watch this. Close in catching, with a ball absolutely belted and the field reacting and plucking the catch in barely no
In Superman's case maybe the super strength (generated by exposure to the sun) is given to him by his muscles. I mean if we accept that an alien looks exactly like a Human then it's actually quite simple.
WarAngel wrote: In Superman's case maybe the super strength (generated by exposure to the sun) is given to him by his muscles. I mean if we accept that an alien looks exactly like a Human then it's actually quite simple.
Actually, in his case, it may be habit. In several variations of the continuity, Clark played sports both before and after his powers developed. He probably developed the habit to keep up appearances in high school during training.
Despite the fact that he can't draw to save his life, and probably hasn't ever actually seen a human in real life, he also happens to be one of the most famous and well paid artists in comic history.
He really has the worst perception of human anatomy. It isn't even stylized, they seem like genuine attempts to capture good figures but exaggerate it so badly they don't even look human.
I'm not a comic connoisseur, only own some piles of Star Wars/Trek/Alien/Predator Omnibuses, and those series don't really go nuts with idealized superhero physiques - but this dude is just mad.
