Switch Theme:

Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit  [RSS] 

12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 02:11:42


Post by: Gentleman_Jellyfish


http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/9/12/bullied-12-year-oldusgirlcommitssuicide.html

A 12-year-old Florida girl has committed suicide after she was allegedly bullied online by more than a dozen other girls, and a sheriff said Thursday that he is investigating whether he can file charges under a new state law that deals with cyber-bullying. The case follows several suicides by teens who were bullied through anonymous trolling on social media websites.

Sheriff Grady Judd said that Rebecca Ann Sedwick jumped to her death on Monday at an old cement facility in Lakeland, Fla. Investigators said she had been despondent after other girls had posted hateful messages about her online.

Sedwick was "absolutely terrorized on social media," Judd said.

The Lakeland Ledger reported that detectives found multiple social media applications in which Sedwick was frequently bullied with messages including "Go kill yourself," and "Why are you still alive?"

Judd said that the parents of all 15 girls believed to have been involved in the bullying have cooperated with detectives, and that several cellphones and laptops have been confiscated. He said charges -- including cyber-stalking -- could be filed.

"If we can get any evidence of a criminal offense, the person or persons involved will be punished," he said.

Students and parents from Sedwick's school said bullying is a problem, local news reported.

Other students complained that reporting bullying earns them the title of “snitch” among fellow students, and that school authorities have ignored their concerns.

Warning signs

Local media also reported that Sedwick's mother had complained to school officials and had filed a bullying report with the district before her daughter's death.

Before her death, Sedwick had searched questions online related to suicide, including "How many over-the-counter drugs do you take to die?" and "How many Advil do you have to take to die?"

Judd said a 12-year-old boy in North Carolina, whom Sedwick met through social media, had known of her plan. Sedwick messaged him only hours before her death, saying she was dead and "I'm jumping, I can't take it anymore."

Judd said that detectives are trying to investigate the social media applications that Sedwick might have used, but that some of them are based in other countries.

"If you bully somebody online and it's reported to us and we can build a credible case, we will charge you," he said.

Anonymous trolling

Segwick had been active on a social media site which is based outside the United States and through which users can ask eachother questions. It has about 60 million users worldwide, many them anonymous and under 18 years old.

The site had earlier come under fire after it was linked to suicides of at least five teens who allegedly suffered harassment on it.

Critics say the fact that users can remain anonymous is one factor that leads to extreme bullying, because the users do not see their victims’ reactions.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 02:28:12


Post by: Forar


Not sure what there is to say that hasn't already been said at length during the last cyber-bullying thread.

Well, aside from how sad it is that there's another one, and another life is lost.

Oh well, I'm sure someone will come by soon to tell us all how much worse they had it, that clearly these people just need to grow a thicker skin, etc, etc.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 02:32:36


Post by: Mathieu Raymond


I'm curious to see if there will be charges.

Finally a Florida case that does not involve stand your grounds.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 02:57:40


Post by: xole


 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I'm curious to see if there will be charges.

Finally a Florida case that does not involve stand your grounds.


...

This is another in a long line of tragedies generated by the lack of empathy in youth, and the predatory us-and-them attitudes.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 03:02:50


Post by: Firehead158


Firehead:

Ya know, its sad that this little girl lost her life as a result of "cyber bullying". This must be completely devastating for the parents, and I would lose it on some parents if this happened to my child.

Now, this is the other side of Firehead:

Are you kidding me? Someone bullied you... on the internet, and you smoked yourself? Thats stupid. I really do feel bad for the parents, but its not like you were physically assaulted every day. Can't handle someone talking trash behind a keyboard? You're going to have a rough time in the real world. I'd much rather see someone who is bullied take a bat to their "assailants", then to kill themselves. What have we as Americans come to? Start standing up for yourselves. We all had to deal with bullies, and there isn't a single one I haven't stood up to. Maybe its just the way I was raised. This is the pussification of Americans. RIP little lady, the rest of you need to stop being such cowards.

(yes please tell me why I'm wrong now)


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 03:13:43


Post by: Jihadin


Your wrong. Remove the bat portion. That way it doesn't sound way to much like your advocating violence among kids. Replace it with, say, dodgeball


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 03:13:59


Post by: SlaveToDorkness


There's a part of me wondering how we've reached the point where our children cannot deal with someone telling them to kill themselves.

When did we stop telling them that everybody else their age is a complete moron like my Dad did?


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 03:16:08


Post by: Ouze


 Firehead158 wrote:
Can't handle someone talking trash behind a keyboard? You're going to have a rough time in the real world.


It's almost like a 12 year old is a child who hasn't developed an adult sense of perspective yet.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 03:22:42


Post by: Jimsolo


Funny, I was just wondering how we'd reached a point where we raised our children to EVER believe it was acceptable to tell someone to kill themselves. (You know, someone who wasn't a child molester, nazi, or juggalo.)

I'm kind of torn. Following someone to their home and screaming that they should kill themselves can be a chargeable crime. I mean, frequently, these "cyber-bullying" (I really hate that term, by the way) things seem to be very analogous to real world stalking, and I wonder if they should be viewed in a similar light. I really feel for those parent, though. (Of all the kids, actually. How bad would you feel if your kids had goaded someone into killing themselves?) I don't really think there's a whole lot of clear cut answers available here, just a lot of questions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ouze wrote:
 Firehead158 wrote:
Can't handle someone talking trash behind a keyboard? You're going to have a rough time in the real world.


It's almost like a 12 year old is a child who hasn't developed an adult sense of perspective yet.


Indeed. This.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 03:24:19


Post by: Kanluwen


 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
There's a part of me wondering how we've reached the point where our children cannot deal with someone telling them to kill themselves.

When did we stop telling them that everybody else their age is a complete moron like my Dad did?

The problem is that it is not simply "someone telling them to kill themselves".

The online component to cyber-bullying is influential but it is also accompanied by constant harassment/bullying at school, ostracizing individuals from social groups and basically making someone feel like they are completely worthless.

Get informed before commenting on matters like this please.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 03:32:11


Post by: SlaveToDorkness


Kan, I went to High School.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 04:54:18


Post by: Jihadin


Actually thinking "Karma" need to be taught in school. Like around middle school or something....


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 05:00:13


Post by: cincydooley


Okay, so I'll ask the stupid question:

Is it really so hard to turn off the computer? I mean, really.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 05:13:24


Post by: Ouze


So we're 100% fully into Blame The Victim now, right?.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 05:28:35


Post by: d-usa


 Ouze wrote:
So we're 100% fully into Blame The Victim now, right?.


Bingo?

Just another thread full of replies that make me loose faith in humanity.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 05:53:14


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 cincydooley wrote:
Okay, so I'll ask the stupid question:

Is it really so hard to turn off the computer? I mean, really.


Knowing that people are smearing your name day and night, planning ways to humiliate you and starting rumors behind your back are all pretty terrible whether or not the computer is on.

Also, it is totally acceptable to tell the victim to retreat from living a normal modern life and to live like a relative Mennonite and risk further alienation from her peers? That is the right thing to do?


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 05:55:59


Post by: sebster


 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
There's a part of me wondering how we've reached the point where our children cannot deal with someone telling them to kill themselves.

When did we stop telling them that everybody else their age is a complete moron like my Dad did?


Seriously? 'Kids these days...' That's what you're going with?


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 06:04:15


Post by: wana10


 Jimsolo wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ouze wrote:
 Firehead158 wrote:
Can't handle someone talking trash behind a keyboard? You're going to have a rough time in the real world.


It's almost like a 12 year old is a child who hasn't developed an adult sense of perspective yet.


Indeed. This.


I'm not going to jump onto the victim blaming bandwagon, there's a dead kid who really has no reason to be dead and that is incredibly depressing. That said, if these kids don't have a developed sense of perspective maybe they shouldn't have unfettered access to the web and social media. If the parents knew this was happening and filed complaints why did they keep allowing her to hang out online where the abuse was happening before anything was resolved through the school channels?


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 06:06:30


Post by: cincydooley


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 cincydooley wrote:
Okay, so I'll ask the stupid question:

Is it really so hard to turn off the computer? I mean, really.


Knowing that people are smearing your name day and night, planning ways to humiliate you and starting rumors behind your back are all pretty terrible whether or not the computer is on.

Also, it is totally acceptable to tell the victim to retreat from living a normal modern life and to live like a relative Mennonite and risk further alienation from her peers? That is the right thing to do?


The article states that the cyber bullying was the issue, not the real life bullying. As such, it takes about 15 seconds to turn off the PC. You can block mean people on Facebook.

I'm not blaming the victim, but Jesus. Lets not pretend cyber bullying isn't fully preventable by the absolute smallest amount of effort.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 06:26:26


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 cincydooley wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 cincydooley wrote:
Okay, so I'll ask the stupid question:

Is it really so hard to turn off the computer? I mean, really.


Knowing that people are smearing your name day and night, planning ways to humiliate you and starting rumors behind your back are all pretty terrible whether or not the computer is on.

Also, it is totally acceptable to tell the victim to retreat from living a normal modern life and to live like a relative Mennonite and risk further alienation from her peers? That is the right thing to do?


The article states that the cyber bullying was the issue, not the real life bullying. As such, it takes about 15 seconds to turn off the PC. You can block mean people on Facebook.

I'm not blaming the victim, but Jesus. Lets not pretend cyber bullying isn't fully preventable by the absolute smallest amount of effort.


The article is pretty vague, but are you really suggesting these kids bullied her online and were completely civil to her in real life?

If cyber bullying were as trivial and easily blocked as you seem to think, it would not be such an issue. It's also pretty naive to believe that there was no real world component to the bullying.

And one more time, are you suggesting that the way to prevent bullying from ruining her life is to make her the only "unplugged" kid at school, a.k.a. the weird kid who sticks out and makes an easy target? Wouldn't that sort of reaction be a victory for the bullies? Should she have to give up participating in her own social life (social media is now a part of most children's lives in ways we can't fully understand, not having grown up with it) because we don't want to get aggressive in stopping cyber bullying? Basically, "she was asking for it" for being online?


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 06:40:32


Post by: sebster


 cincydooley wrote:
The article states that the cyber bullying was the issue, not the real life bullying. As such, it takes about 15 seconds to turn off the PC. You can block mean people on Facebook.

I'm not blaming the victim, but Jesus. Lets not pretend cyber bullying isn't fully preventable by the absolute smallest amount of effort.


If bullying was a stimulus response thing - person said mean thing, victim is sadder, then yeah, your answer would work.

But the problem is that bullying isn't that simple, the means things said will be part of a larger program of ostracization and getting former friends to abandon the victim. Simply turning off your computer might stop a person hearing a mean comment, but the rest of it, the really damaging stuff, is still there.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 06:41:22


Post by: Jihadin


Twelve years old and her life evolve around a social media site....twelve year olds need to do what twelve year olds do.....play outside...


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 06:44:55


Post by: cincydooley


I didn't say there wasn't any real life bullying. The article even states the mom had reported it to the school. The article does place the blame for the suicide on the cyber bullying, however.

Quite frankly, I do think cyber bullying is trivial because there's a pretty easy solution to it. I also know that in the vast anonymity of the Internet there are plenty of ways to interact with social media. feth, through Twitter you can literally be whoever of whatever the feth you want to be. The dude that writes the Peyton's head Twitter could literally be a one legged dwarf that never played football in his life. We don't know because its anonymous. So please, don't pretend there aren't plenty of avenues for someone to interact online aside from whatever site this kid was getting cyber bullied on.

And you want to "get aggressive in stopping cyber bullying?" Oh feth me sideways. So, you want people to stop being mean on the Internet? My brother, if you can figure that out Ill band together a militia to help crown you Tzar of Earth.

Kids are going to be fething mean to each other. That's reality. Do you know the only way to curb it? Foster kindness in popular kids. That's the easiest way to stop bullying. If the captain of the football team doesn't put up with bullying, it happens far more infrequently.

You know the way to curb kids killing themselves from inevitable bullying? Be a fething parent, take part in their lives, and teach them how to cope.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 06:45:14


Post by: Haemonculus


 cincydooley wrote:
Okay, so I'll ask the stupid question:

Is it really so hard to turn off the computer? I mean, really.


Because you have to turn that computer back on, and that turning the computer off does not make the bullies vanish. Why should the victim suddenly have to change her lifestyle around simply because of the actions of others?

I was the object of significant bullying when I worked for the ambulance service, and actually contemplated killing myself after being abused one night shift and then being informed that the witnesses were not going to support me out of fear of retaliation (the bully got away with it). Some people could say that I could have just left my job, but why should I be the one who leaves?

Kids are going to be fething mean to each other. That's reality. Do you know the only way to curb it? Foster kindness in popular kids. That's the easiest way to stop bullying. If the captain of the football team doesn't put up with bullying, it happens far more infrequently.


Yet the research actually shows that this does not work. Teaching people to be kind is counter-productive for those who simply have no empathy. You really just skill them up to be better bullies.

You know the way to curb kids killing themselves from inevitable bullying? Be a fething parent, take part in their lives, and teach them how to cope.


Not everyone who kills themselves have parents that do not take an active, supporting role in their children's lives. It does not matter if you have caring parents; the child may not actually have spoken to their parents, due to being embarrassed. But having supportive people is not the only (or most effective) protective factor against suicide. Suicide is a complex thing, and your assessment of what victims go through (or what they need to do to prevent it) strikes me as being rather simplistic.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 06:48:13


Post by: cincydooley


So.... You got bullied as a working adult? I'll put my callous bastard hat back on and say that if you're unable to cope with people being mean to you as an adult you might want to seek some professional counsel.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 06:49:43


Post by: Imposter101


 cincydooley wrote:
So.... You got bullied as a working adult? I'll put my callous bastard hat back on and say that if you're unable to cope with people being mean to you as an adult you might want to seek some professional counsel.


Harassment is an incredibly easy thing to ignore apparently.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 06:52:47


Post by: cincydooley


 Imposter101 wrote:
 cincydooley wrote:
So.... You got bullied as a working adult? I'll put my callous bastard hat back on and say that if you're unable to cope with people being mean to you as an adult you might want to seek some professional counsel.


Harassment is an incredibly easy thing to ignore apparently.


You know the cool thing about harassment in the workplace? There are like, legal ways to curb it. Pretty crazy right?

I mean, I don't know if Austalia is as gloriously litigious as the US, but as a westernized country I'm sure there's plenty of opportunity for legal recourse.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 06:53:06


Post by: Haemonculus


 cincydooley wrote:
So.... You got bullied as a working adult? I'll put my callous bastard hat back on and say that if you're unable to cope with people being mean to you as an adult you might want to seek some professional counsel.


I'll counter that and say that you're making a comment about an internet stranger. Yes, I got severly bullied at work, and yes I was suicidal. You can wear that callous hat, for all I care. You still really aren't in a position to make the call on what a stranger needs.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 06:55:14


Post by: Imposter101


 cincydooley wrote:
 Imposter101 wrote:
 cincydooley wrote:
So.... You got bullied as a working adult? I'll put my callous bastard hat back on and say that if you're unable to cope with people being mean to you as an adult you might want to seek some professional counsel.


Harassment is an incredibly easy thing to ignore apparently.


You know the cool thing about harassment in the workplace? There are like, legal ways to curb it. Pretty crazy right?



It's not that easy for people. We also don't know the full situation, and which members of the workplace engaged in it. People end up getting fired for trying to report stuff like this.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 06:57:23


Post by: cincydooley


 Haemonculus wrote:
 cincydooley wrote:
So.... You got bullied as a working adult? I'll put my callous bastard hat back on and say that if you're unable to cope with people being mean to you as an adult you might want to seek some professional counsel.


I'll counter that and say that you're making a comment about an internet stranger. Yes, I got severly bullied at work, and yes I was suicidal. You can wear that callous hat, for all I care. You still really aren't in a position to make the call on what a stranger needs.


Oh, I don't know. You're an adult that says you were suicidal because you were "bullied". Id say the simple fact that you were suicidal would be enoug to warrant the notion from an Internet stranger that you need some professional help.

Honestly, I didn't know you could be "bullied" as an adult. You really learn something new every day.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 06:57:36


Post by: Fafnir


Bullying is always going to be a part of growing up, and with social media, it's only going to get more intrusive. You can add as many rules and restrictions as you want, but it doesn't change the fact that kids (and, let's face it, adults) will bully and ostracize one another.

When I went to school, we'd always have assemblies, classes, lectures, and other presentations all about bullying, being bullied, and being resilient to bullying. I think that education concerning reactions to bullying needs to be seriously updated to fit the times, and that will require a considerable amount of research and thought into the issue. Growing thicker skin isn't enough these days, you need to be prepared to lose some. It's harsh, but in an environment containing a concentration of hundreds upon hundreds of undeveloped sociopaths in one building, bullying will always be an inevitability. What's also important is that, by and large, almost everyone will probably end up bullying someone else, or at least trying, themselves.

To be pragmatic, we can't just encourage kids to stop bullying, but help develop tools to cope with it.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 07:02:05


Post by: Haemonculus


 cincydooley wrote:
Oh, I don't know. You're an adult that says you were suicidal because you were "bullied". Id say the simple fact that you were suicidal would be enoug to warrant the notion from an Internet stranger that you need some professional help.

Honestly, I didn't know you could be "bullied" as an adult. You really learn something new every day.


I was bullied, harassed, intimidated, abused, threatened, etc etc. I could easily exhaust my thesaurus in trying to explain what happened. But again, you just aren't the expert here, cincydooley. Sorry, I am not trying to belittle you, but trying to get you to see that you're analysis of my situation is fundamentally lacking given that you are commenting about a stranger's experiences you know nothing about. An example: "I didn't know you could be "bullied" as an adult." Yes, yes you can. Many many countries ackowledge it, in policy, law,even research (my area). Adults can be bullied, adults can experience one of the synonyms I noted at the start of my message.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 07:06:38


Post by: -Loki-


 cincydooley wrote:
So.... You got bullied as a working adult? I'll put my callous bastard hat back on and say that if you're unable to cope with people being mean to you as an adult you might want to seek some professional counsel.


This comment is hilarious because yesterday at work I sat through a lengthy meeting put on for the while IT department about workplace bullying and harrassment and why it is unacceptable, and the legal methods of getting around it.

Bullying and harrassment happen every day, to people of all ages, and it can and does have long lasting mental and social affects. I've seen and experienced it myself.

'Get thicker skin' is such a fething cop out 'Mr Tough Guy' response that makes me think you've never seriously experienced it. It's not as simple as someone at work or school occasionally making fun of your haircut.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 07:08:33


Post by: StyleXHobby


This is sad. :-(


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 07:08:57


Post by: cincydooley


My word association with "bullied" is "child". My guess is that if you're using the phrasing "bullied" as an adult you were probably "bullied" as a child. And because you're using it now, and the reaction you had to it which you freely shared, it's likely you didn't develop any coping mechanisms to deal with people being mean to you. That's your parents fault IMO

My word association for "harassed" is "adult". And again, as a harassed adult, especially in the workplace, there are loads of options for legal recourse.

My initial reaction when someone says they were suicidal is "go see a psychiatrist". Hell, I see one twice a year simply because its fething great to unburden yourself to someone that is completely objective. I highly recommend it.

And you're right. I know nothing about you aside from what you shared. This is simply an Internet strangers non-professional assessment.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 07:09:11


Post by: -Loki-


 cincydooley wrote:
Honestly, I didn't know you could be "bullied" as an adult. You really learn something new every day.


have you never worked a full time job? They don't have all of these methods of legal counsel for workplace harrassment for nothing. It's a real thing.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 07:10:48


Post by: Jihadin


Jebus. What job and how old are you to be getting bullied at work?


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 07:13:25


Post by: Haemonculus


 cincydooley wrote:
My word association with "bullied" is "child". My guess is that if you're using the phrasing "bullied" as an adult you were probably "bullied" as a child. And because you're using it now, and the reaction you had to it which you freely shared, it's likely you didn't develop any coping mechanisms to deal with people being mean to you. That's your parents fault IMO


Only bullying is not the province of children. You're making a major assumption here. Quite a few, actually.

My word association for "harassed" is "adult". And again, as a harassed adult, especially in the workplace, there are loads of options for legal recourse.

My initial reaction when someone says they were suicidal is "go see a psychiatrist". Hell, I see one twice a year simply because its fething great to unburden yourself to someone that is completely objective. I highly recommend it.


Haha, I am a psychologist. Yes, they help. Absolutely. And I am pleased you have benefitted from seeing a psychiatrist.

If someone is suicidal, seeing a professional is the best response. But I took issue with the way you worded your initial reaction to my post.

And you're right. I know nothing about you aside from what you shared. This is simply an Internet strangers non-professional assessment.


Thanks cincydooley. Despite the tension, I have enjoyed debating/arguing this with you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Jihadin wrote:
Jebus. What job and how old are you to be getting bullied at work?


Curious as to why you think only children are bullied. The term is used in plenty of organisations in context of adults . . .

One example: http://www.humanrights.gov.au/workplace-bullying-violence-harassment-and-bullying-fact-sheet


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 07:17:52


Post by: Seaward


Man. Never set foot in a squadron ready room, that's all I'll say.

On topic, I think blaming the victim is a tad harsh in this particular case, but I'm perfectly fine with blaming all involved parents.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 07:18:49


Post by: cincydooley


 -Loki- wrote:


'Get thicker skin' is such a fething cop out 'Mr Tough Guy' response that makes me think you've never seriously experienced it. It's not as simple as someone at work or school occasionally making fun of your haircut.


I don't know if I've "seriously" experience it. I was picked on plenty as a chubby, freckled 6-10 year old with a name that could easily be turned into "Seen Drooling". But my parents taught me to cope with it. Early. So that very Irish name I have became a point of pride. Instead of being upset when someone couldn't pronounce "Sean" it became their fault because that's the real Irish way to spell it, so my mom told me.

I know in high school I had self esteem issues due to, well, what every 14 year old boy does that isn't the best looking dude in school has issues with: girls. And I learned how to fix those things. Because my parents helped me learn how to. They didn't blame. They didn't bitch to the school. They helped me learn to cope. They helped me become a well adjusted person, despite the fact that we'd later learn (8 years after high school) that I'm bi-polar.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 -Loki- wrote:
 cincydooley wrote:
Honestly, I didn't know you could be "bullied" as an adult. You really learn something new every day.


have you never worked a full time job? They don't have all of these methods of legal counsel for workplace harrassment for nothing. It's a real thing.


Yeah. Like I said about 3 times, there's tons of legal recourse for it. If you let it perpetuate, that's on you.

And like I said before, I've never heard it referred to as "bullying" from an adult. That's why I was taken aback.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 07:31:57


Post by: sebster


 cincydooley wrote:
Quite frankly, I do think cyber bullying is trivial because there's a pretty easy solution to it. I also know that in the vast anonymity of the Internet there are plenty of ways to interact with social media. feth, through Twitter you can literally be whoever of whatever the feth you want to be. The dude that writes the Peyton's head Twitter could literally be a one legged dwarf that never played football in his life. We don't know because its anonymous. So please, don't pretend there aren't plenty of avenues for someone to interact online aside from whatever site this kid was getting cyber bullied on.


You failed your reading. The issue isn't 'this person can't go on-line because they are bullied', the issue is 'the bullying extends beyond on-line in to their personal lives' so simply turning off the computer doesn't solve the issue.

And bullying is more than just saying something mean. You are, and always will be allowed to say something mean on the internet. I could, for instance, tell you that your opinions on this subject are extremely poorly considered and it's the most incredible hubris that you think you think can rail against common opinion on the issue armed with nothing but your personal opinions... and if you went and killed yourself because of it, I wouldn't be in any kind of trouble.

Bullying is a pattern of behaviour, over an extended period of time. If I was to follow you from thread to thread attacking you, and contact all your friends on dakka and convince them to turn on you, then that's bullying. And if I did the same to you in the real world, well then you've got the kind of thing that can ruin young people's lives, and sometimes causes them to attempt suicide.

You know the way to curb kids killing themselves from inevitable bullying? Be a fething parent, take part in their lives, and teach them how to cope.


Just hoping that all the other parents in the world start doing their jobs is pie in the sky.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 cincydooley wrote:
My word association with "bullied" is "child". My guess is that if you're using the phrasing "bullied" as an adult you were probably "bullied" as a child.


Or more likely you haven't worked in a large corporate environment in the last 10 to 15 years. Seriously, workplace bullying is talked about so often these days, I'm more than a little surprised that someone outside of the corporate environment wouldn't have heard of it, at least in passing.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 07:44:37


Post by: Ouze


Yeah, they say violence never solves anything, but in my experience it actually totally solves lots of things.

Your mileage may vary.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 07:45:01


Post by: sebster


 Jihadin wrote:
Jebus. What job and how old are you to be getting bullied at work?


Seriously?

Consider a senior manager gets dropped in to a department. He's insecure in his abilities and quickly adopts a divide and conquer approach among the managers underneath him - manipulating the managers underneath him in to turning on each other. When the senior manager's ideas and direction are challenged by managers, he belittles them publically. When one manager shows the strength of his convictions and doesn't become a yes man in this new system, the senior manager really turns on him. His projects are cancelled and his best staff are moved to other areas. His abandoned projects are constantly mocked by the senior manager and his new lackeys. The manager is eventually moved to a new office, where he remains for two months without ever having a connected telehpone.

He leaves the company, and then sues. He wins millions. Because courts recognise workplace bullying is a hostile work environoment, and don't tolerate that gak anymore.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Seaward wrote:
Man. Never set foot in a squadron ready room, that's all I'll say.


Nah, because just saying mean things isn't bullying.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 07:46:26


Post by: cincydooley


 sebster wrote:
 cincydooley wrote:
Quite frankly, I do think cyber bullying is trivial because there's a pretty easy solution to it. I also know that in the vast anonymity of the Internet there are plenty of ways to interact with social media. feth, through Twitter you can literally be whoever of whatever the feth you want to be. The dude that writes the Peyton's head Twitter could literally be a one legged dwarf that never played football in his life. We don't know because its anonymous. So please, don't pretend there aren't plenty of avenues for someone to interact online aside from whatever site this kid was getting cyber bullied on.


You failed your reading. The issue isn't 'this person can't go on-line because they are bullied', the issue is 'the bullying extends beyond on-line in to their personal lives' so simply turning off the computer doesn't solve the issue.

And bullying is more than just saying something mean. You are, and always will be allowed to say something mean on the internet. I could, for instance, tell you that your opinions on this subject are extremely poorly considered and it's the most incredible hubris that you think you think can rail against common opinion on the issue armed with nothing but your personal opinions... and if you went and killed yourself because of it, I wouldn't be in any kind of trouble.

Bullying is a pattern of behaviour, over an extended period of time. If I was to follow you from thread to thread attacking you, and contact all your friends on dakka and convince them to turn on you, then that's bullying. And if I did the same to you in the real world, well then you've got the kind of thing that can ruin young people's lives, and sometimes causes them to attempt suicide.


I'm fully aware of what bullying is. I was a teacher for 5 years. I've seen actual bullying happen in school. We suspend the bullies and then--and this is the key--teach the bullied kids how to cope with it in the inevitable case it happens again. We were also trained to provide an outlet for bullied kids to talk to.

With all that in mind, I firmly maintain my stance on "cyber bullying". It's easy, embarrassingly so, to avoid without becoming a technology pariah. Like, for instance, if you did all that "dakka cyber bullying stuff you mentioned" it would take me a whole 20 seconds to eliminate and I could go about my business. The website itself has avenues to do this. In fact, many.


Or more likely you haven't worked in a large corporate environment in the last 10 to 15 years. Seriously, workplace bullying is talked about so often these days, I'm more than a little surprised that someone outside of the corporate environment wouldn't have heard of it, at least in passing.


I work for a Fortune 500 company. We call it harassment because, you know, we're adults. I've never been subject to it nor have I ever seen it in my workplace. Because, you know, we're adults and we know that you can dislike someone and still work with them.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 07:49:15


Post by: reds8n


Firstly people need to watch their language. The language filters are there as we don't want certain words or terms used on the site. If you persist in working round them then we'll simply suspend your account.

Secondly, take a moment before posting, especially if you're responding directly to another user. There's no need to be insulting or belittling.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 07:51:00


Post by: sebster


 cincydooley wrote:
With all that in mind, I firmly maintain my stance on "cyber bullying". It's easy, embarrassingly so, to avoid without becoming a technology pariah. Like, for instance, if you did all that "dakka cyber bullying stuff you mentioned" it would take me a whole 20 seconds to eliminate and I could go about my business. The website itself has avenues to do this. In fact, many.


You just keep ignoring the part where I point out that the cyber-bullying doesn't exist in isolation, and that just turning off the computer doesn't solve the greater problem. I don't know why you keep ignoring that, but its making this really boring.


I work for a Fortune 500 company. We call it harassment because, you know, we're adults. I've never been subject to it nor have I ever seen it in my workplace. Because, you know, we're adults and we know that you can dislike someone and still work with them.


You should listen more closely in those seminars. Company spend a lot of money on those things, and I think they'd be pretty disappointed to learn you weren't aware of the differences between harassment and bullying (pro-tip - bullying is motivated by malice/insecurity, and is about establishing positions of power.... just like childhood bullying.)


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 07:53:24


Post by: cincydooley


 sebster wrote:
 Jihadin wrote:
Jebus. What job and how old are you to be getting bullied at work?


Seriously?

Consider a senior manager gets dropped in to a department. He's insecure in his abilities and quickly adopts a divide and conquer approach among the managers underneath him - manipulating the managers underneath him in to turning on each other. When the senior manager's ideas and direction are challenged by managers, he belittles them publically. When one manager shows the strength of his convictions and doesn't become a yes man in this new system, the senior manager really turns on him. His projects are cancelled and his best staff are moved to other areas. His abandoned projects are constantly mocked by the senior manager and his new lackeys. The manager is eventually moved to a new office, where he remains for two months without ever having a connected telehpone.

He leaves the company, and then sues. He wins millions. Because courts recognise workplace bullying is a hostile work environoment, and don't tolerate that gak anymore.

.

This is a well and nice scenario that is about as likely to happen in a corporate work environment as I am to grow a uterus and birth a child. There's a reason HR departments in any large company (and many small ones too) exist autonomously. So this gak doesn't happen. Staff can't simply be moved like rearranging fruit in your fridge. Etc. etc. gak, if I had a manager belittle me in public and I couldn't deal with it like a grown ass man, i could go to HR, the complaint would be filed anonymously, and would exist on his file until he no longer worked for the company.

Besides, there's legal protection and recourse for it in the incredibly unlikely event it did happen.

And quite frankly, I still can't fathom that you're calling this "bullying".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 sebster wrote:
 cincydooley wrote:
I work for a Fortune 500 company. We call it harassment because, you know, we're adults. I've never been subject to it nor have I ever seen it in my workplace. Because, you know, we're adults and we know that you can dislike someone and still work with them.


You should listen more closely in those seminars. Company spend a lot of money on those things, and I think they'd be pretty disappointed to learn you weren't aware of the differences between harassment and bullying (pro-tip - bullying is motivated by malice/insecurity, and is about establishing positions of power.... just like childhood bullying.)


I guess I can't fathom what kind of adult would put up with that. I mean, I can, but I think stating it here would violate rule #1 and get me an insta-ban.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 sebster wrote:


You just keep ignoring the part where I point out that the cyber-bullying doesn't exist in isolation, and that just turning off the computer doesn't solve the greater problem. I don't know why you keep ignoring that, but its making this really boring.
.)


I'm not ignoring it. I've said at least twice now that kids have to be taught to cope with "real world" bullying. If you simply get the "bully" in trouble and don't teach the bullied kid to cope with the situation, as a parent or teacher you've not done your job. And yes, sadly part of that coping is teaching kids to have thicker skin.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 08:02:46


Post by: sebster


 cincydooley wrote:
This is a well and nice scenario that is about as likely to happen in a corporate work environment as I am to grow a uterus and birth a child.


Congratulations on the child, because that was a real case study.

There's a reason HR departments in any large company (and many small ones too) exist autonomously. So this gak doesn't happen.


Because simply setting up a paid position automatically means the problem can't happen, no need to worry about org culture or anything like that.

Staff can't simply be moved like rearranging fruit in your fridge. Etc. etc. gak, if I had a manager belittle me in public and I couldn't deal with it like a grown ass man, i could go to HR, the complaint would be filed anonymously, and would exist on his file until he no longer worked for the company.


Yeah, because management has no ability to use unofficial, informal connections to side step formal process. And a nasty note on a HR file is such a negative for a senior manager...

Besides, there's legal protection and recourse for it in the incredibly unlikely event it did happen.


Yes there is, and that's how the individual in said case study eventually got some measure of fairness. Did you read to the end?

Anyhow, that was one instance, with a happy ending. I know of a few people from personal experience who had no such joy, they just left to some other job, frustrated and stressed. Because establishing something like this in a court of law is incredibly hard, and will take a long time.

And quite frankly, I still can't fathom that you're calling this "bullying".


There's a whole industry of business books on the subject. Go to amazon and enter 'workplace bullying' - you get 1,500 responses.

And you just sit there blithely asserting that because you were ignorant of the term, that it must not be common terminology. Man, you've got some moxie, I'll give you that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 cincydooley wrote:
I guess I can't fathom what kind of adult would put up with that. I mean, I can, but I think stating it here would violate rule #1 and get me an insta-ban.


Nah, it just means you don't really understand bullying and how it works. The kids don't just put up with it because of any personal failing, and nor do adults.

I'm not ignoring it. I've said at least twice now that kids have to be taught to cope with "real world" bullying. If you simply get the "bully" in trouble and don't teach the bullied kid to cope with the situation, as a parent or teacher you've not done your job. And yes, sadly part of that coping is teaching kids to have thicker skin.


And when there's a real world situation going on, then thinking that just turning off the computer will achieve anything is stupid. As stupid as 'Ignore it and it'll stop', which is sadly an all too common piece of terrible advice given to victims of bullying.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 08:25:08


Post by: cincydooley


 sebster wrote:
 cincydooley wrote:
This is a well and nice scenario that is about as likely to happen in a corporate work environment as I am to grow a uterus and birth a child.


Congratulations on the child, because that was a real case study.


Link, por favor?

There's a reason HR departments in any large company (and many small ones too) exist autonomously. So this gak doesn't happen.

Yeah, because management has no ability to use unofficial, informal connections to side step formal process. And a nasty note on a HR file is such a negative for a senior manager...


At any corporation with said autonomous HR division, It literally could not happen. For this very reason.

Besides, there's legal protection and recourse for it in the incredibly unlikely event it did happen.

Yes there is, and that's how the individual in said case study eventually got some measure of fairness. Did you read to the end?


Yes. Seems like a pretty amiable solution to me.

Anyhow, that was one instance, with a happy ending. I know of a few people from personal experience who had no such joy, they just left to some other job, frustrated and stressed. Because establishing something like this in a court of law is incredibly hard, and will take a long time.


So what you're saying is there are solutions. They're just not easy or necessarily fair. Huh. Sounds like life in general. How about that.



There's a whole industry of business books on the subject. Go to amazon and enter 'workplace bullying' - you get 1,500 responses.


Scientology has 2100 hits. Astrology has 37000. Jussayin.




Nah, it just means you don't really understand bullying and how it works. The kids don't just put up with it because of any personal failing, and nor do adults.


Getting bullied isn't a personal failing. In fact, it often has more to do with the bully than the child being bullied. Not being able to cope with it, however, is a personal failing.



12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 08:37:26


Post by: Ouze


ITT, we're arguing that the existence of HR departments has eliminated workplace harassment.

I think you're intentionally displaying a level of obtusity here to prove some point we can't glean. Obtusity - is that a word? It should be.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 08:37:43


Post by: Jimsolo


 cincydooley wrote:
There's a reason HR departments in any large company (and many small ones too) exist autonomously. So this gak doesn't happen.

At any corporation with said autonomous HR division, It literally could not happen. For this very reason.

Besides, there's legal protection and recourse for it in the incredibly unlikely event it did happen.



I might have missed something in this back and forth, but just to clarify. Are you taking the stance that workplace harassment is a functional impossibility? Something so outlandish as to be classified as "incredibly unlikely?" That an "autonomous" HR department (which seems unlikely in and of itself) is a virtual guarantee against such shenanigans? That seems to be your stance, I'm just clarifying for my own curiosity.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 09:03:25


Post by: cincydooley


 Jimsolo wrote:
 cincydooley wrote:
There's a reason HR departments in any large company (and many small ones too) exist autonomously. So this gak doesn't happen.

At any corporation with said autonomous HR division, It literally could not happen. For this very reason.

Besides, there's legal protection and recourse for it in the incredibly unlikely event it did happen.



I might have missed something in this back and forth, but just to clarify. Are you taking the stance that workplace harassment is a functional impossibility? Something so outlandish as to be classified as "incredibly unlikely?" That an "autonomous" HR department (which seems unlikely in and of itself) is a virtual guarantee against such shenanigans? That seems to be your stance, I'm just clarifying for my own curiosity.


Nope. That was in direct response to all of the personnel maneuvering that seb stated from his case study. Workplace harassment isn't uncommon at all. I (apparently poorly) was stating that those autonomous HR depts exist to provide recourse. That's my fault for not making it more clear.

It's becoming apparent that as an ENTJ Alpha adult that I'm lacking some perspective here when it comes to "bullying" in the adult world. Or maybe my vernacular is more inclined to consider it harassment. Either way, I'm going to recuse myself from the conversation before I make any really offensive comments. I'll end it with my final thoughts on the OP. I'll read the thread still, but I won't be replying anymore.

1. Bullying is a very real occurrence in schools and with kids. IMO, parents and teachers not only need to hold the bullies accountable, but they also need to teach bullied kids how to cope. I firmly believe (based on my own experience growing up) that kids that are taught to cope can become well adjusted adults. Additionally, I think it's the responsibility of parents, especially those with athletic or popular kids, to encourage them to call out people that are bullying. When I was in high school all those years ago, that's how it went. We didn't put up with it and as a result it didn't happen. Admittedly, it probably helped that about half of our starting defensive front 7 was also in choir and theatre. I've come to understand this is rarely the case

2. I think cyber bullying is 100% preventable. There are lots of ways for a kid to participate in social media under the guise of anonymity if people are mean to them online. Additionally, they can simply choose to not participate in it. It may not be fair, but few things are.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 09:09:00


Post by: chromedog


I'm thinking if they killed themselves, then there was more at play than JUST the bullying. Yes, pre-teens have all kinds of self-image issues, not to mention self-worth, self-control and self-pity.

Underlying psych issues to start with. Yeah, 12 year olds haven't learned how to form an adult view of the world yet - but they have these two (sometimes one) adults in their lives that should be doing their part to assist with this. It's called parenting.

I was bullied at school. There was no web, there was no always connected society, there was no myface bookspace. If you wanted to IM someone you went over to them and spoke to them. If you wanted to 'escape' them, you physically moved to where they couldn't get you.

I retreated to a 'safe place' and ignored them (school library - they seemed to mostly be afraid of books and that learning stuff). I found my friends there, who also found sanctuary in the library. I'm friends with several of them still, some 30 years later. Only some of them. Others developed drug habits (mary jane) and then psych issues and killed themselves.

(But those suicides weren't as the result of bullying. They were undiagnosed scizophrenics where bipolar disorder also ran in the family).

Suicide doesn't solve any problems, it just passes them on to other people.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 09:10:11


Post by: reds8n


 cincydooley wrote:

And quite frankly, I still can't fathom that you're calling this "bullying".


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/01/growing-push-to-halt-workplace-bullying/1955847/



A recent survey found that 56% of companies have some kind of anti-bullying policy.


http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/workplace/2010-12-28-bullyboss28_CV_N.htm


One in three adults has experienced workplace bullying, according to surveys conducted earlier this year by research firm Zogby International for the Workplace Bullying Institute (WBI). Nearly three-fourths of bullying is from the top down, according to a 2007 study.

Some tyrannical managers scream and send out scathing e-mails. But often, an oppressor uses a more subtle — and easily covered — collection of behaviors. These actions could include purposely leaving a worker out of communications so they can't do their job well, mocking someone during meetings and spreading malicious gossip about their target, says Catherine Mattice, a workplace consultant who specializes in this issue.

The acts may seem trivial, but as they build up over time, the ramifications can be monumental.

Bullied workers often feel anxious and depressed, can't sleep and are at increased risk for ailments such as hypertension. Some employees feel so overwhelmed, they just can't see a way out. "Sometimes, unfortunately, suicide is the result," Mattice says.



http://www.shrm.org/hrdisciplines/safetysecurity/articles/Pages/Workplace-Bullying-Laws.aspx

http://www.epspros.com/NewsResources/Newsletters?find=12205


The statistics are staggering: according to the 2010 U.S. Workforce Bullying Institute Survey,1 over 53 million Americans, 35 percent of the U.S. workforce, report having been bullied at some point in their career. An additional 15 percent report witnessing bullying at work. Today, workplace bullying is estimated as four times more prevalent than illegal harassment. Is bullying the “silent epidemic”2 of today’s U.S. workforce?




12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 11:20:53


Post by: Frazzled


Well that sucks balls in a big way. Prayers to the family and curses on all her tormentors. May they feel god's wrath for this.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 11:31:15


Post by: Kelly502


I agree, that bullying is wrong period, yet there had to be mental issues going on.
For instance, everyone has suffered, if you will, a break-up, yet one morning I responded to a 911 call of a 14 year old girl threatening to kill herself, unfortunately she did take her own life with a shotgun just before I arrived and as the negotiator was trying to make contact. The young lady had been upset over her boyfriend breaking up with her. Tragic, yet there had to be some issues there also. So I guess what we can all learn from this is to observe our kids behavior and reactions to seemingly normal situations, if there are over-reactions then perhaps there are some issues that need professional help.



12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 11:44:47


Post by: Frazzled


Of course there were mental issues, she was 12 dude. They are a walking mental issue until they hit about 17.

Twelve.

I'm sorry but if I am the dad I am rampaging with a shotgun.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 11:53:54


Post by: Iranna


 Frazzled wrote:
Of course there were mental issues, she was 12 dude. They are a walking mental issue until they hit about 17.

Twelve.

I'm sorry but if I am the dad I am rampaging with a shotgun.


Shotguns and Wiener Attack Dogs* Frazzled.

Iranna.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 12:20:37


Post by: Alfndrate


 Firehead158 wrote:
Now, this is the other side of Firehead:

Are you kidding me? Someone bullied you... on the internet, and you smoked yourself? Thats stupid. I really do feel bad for the parents, but its not like you were physically assaulted every day. Can't handle someone talking trash behind a keyboard? You're going to have a rough time in the real world. I'd much rather see someone who is bullied take a bat to their "assailants", then to kill themselves. What have we as Americans come to? Start standing up for yourselves. We all had to deal with bullies, and there isn't a single one I haven't stood up to. Maybe its just the way I was raised. This is the pussification of Americans. RIP little lady, the rest of you need to stop being such cowards.

(yes please tell me why I'm wrong now)

Huh, we've been Ehrenstein'd on the first page...

It's a terrible shame this little girl died because her peers are idiots and don't know how to be civil human beings


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 12:29:50


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


 Jihadin wrote:
Your wrong. Remove the bat portion. That way it doesn't sound way to much like your advocating violence among kids. Replace it with, say, dodgeball



how else are we to win the next war we get into, if our youths are un-used to violence?


Maybe its just a generational gap, but the way I was raised, suicide was never "on the table" so to speak. You either bore through it, because it's school, and it shall pass, or you personally did something about it (as in confronting the bully, or doing something that makes them look utterly ridiculous/ and shame them in public)


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 12:37:19


Post by: Seaward


"Adult bullying." You learn something new and ludicrous every day.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 12:44:35


Post by: motyak


 Alfndrate wrote:
 Firehead158 wrote:
Now, this is the other side of Firehead:

Are you kidding me? Someone bullied you... on the internet, and you smoked yourself? Thats stupid. I really do feel bad for the parents, but its not like you were physically assaulted every day. Can't handle someone talking trash behind a keyboard? You're going to have a rough time in the real world. I'd much rather see someone who is bullied take a bat to their "assailants", then to kill themselves. What have we as Americans come to? Start standing up for yourselves. We all had to deal with bullies, and there isn't a single one I haven't stood up to. Maybe its just the way I was raised. This is the pussification of Americans. RIP little lady, the rest of you need to stop being such cowards.

(yes please tell me why I'm wrong now)

Huh, we've been Ehrenstein'd on the first page...

It's a terrible shame this little girl died because her peers are idiots and don't know how to be civil human beings


Come on alf, while that was bad it was hardly an Ehrenstein. For one, there were no Nazis.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 13:02:49


Post by: Ouze


Yet.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 13:08:02


Post by: Alfndrate


 motyak wrote:
Come on alf, while that was bad it was hardly an Ehrenstein. For one, there were no Nazis.

I guess :-\ I still think that trying to argue with that poster would be arguing with crazy, which is what Ehrenstein's law is.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 13:10:37


Post by: Frankenberry


Man, this sucks, such a waste of life.


Now all we need to do is wait for the "ban the internet" policies that I'm sure will appear.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 13:24:07


Post by: Alfndrate


 Frankenberry wrote:
Man, this sucks, such a waste of life.


Now all we need to do is wait for the "ban the internet" policies that I'm sure will appear.

No, that won't happen because unlike guns people are a little more level headed in our country. They will seek to advocate against bullying, do a PSA, and say we need to stop it, but offer no real solutions.

The best way to stop bullying is to teach kids to develop positive coping methods, suicide is a coping method... It's a terrible coping method, but it is one.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 13:26:00


Post by: Seaward


Nah. I vote we send every 10 year-old in America to a modified version of SERE.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 13:28:18


Post by: sebster


 cincydooley wrote:
Link, por favor?


CPA study case. I could get the name of article writer, if you're that interested. Or you could just go and find one of the hundreds of reported cases available through your nearest google machine. Seriously, being amazed at the existance of workplace bullying is like being amazed at the existance of risk management. They're so discussed they're basically cliche.

At any corporation with said autonomous HR division, It literally could not happen. For this very reason.


Autonomous HR is a bit like the perfect market. It's nice to aim for it, and the closer we get the better, but it will never exist in its pure state, and you'd be a damn fool if you just wander about relying on it.

Yes. Seems like a pretty amiable solution to me.


Yes, because of the awareness of workplace bullying in courts.. Which is the point.

Scientology has 2100 hits. Astrology has 37000. Jussayin.


Yeah, and I'd be dumbfounded to learn there's someone out there who didn't know they existed. Just saying.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 13:36:48


Post by: Forar


 Seaward wrote:
"Adult bullying." You learn something new and ludicrous every day.


I'm learning all kinds of things today.

The first one being that the US military's suicide rate went up 15% in 2012.

It'd be really callous of me to say something like "wow, guess even hardened individuals who've seen combat need to grow a thicker skin, since relationship problems seem to be one of the top issues reported. Yeah, yeah, strain of combat, separation from family and loved ones, horrible sights and situations, but if hundreds of thousands of others make it through just fine, I guess those 300-400 per year were just sissies", right?

Or maybe mental health issues are a massive elephant in the room, and instead of belittling those who need help and are failed by those around them (the system, their teachers, their parents, their friends, whomever), we should take a step back and ask what can be done to stem the loss of life? Children are gakheads, no doubt about it. We all made it through elementary and high school with our own scars, mental and physical alike. That doesn't mean these kids aren't suffering in ways we can't even dream of, nor that we need to make it some kind of competition. People deal with the same stimuli differently, that doesn't make them wrong or bad or broken, it makes them human. The absolute crappiest day you've ever had, when you were at your absolute lowest, is just another day that ends in Y to someone else out there. And similarly, a 'meh' day for you might be one that another person would consider ending it all over.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 14:02:01


Post by: Ouze


Wow, Forar.... well said. Have an exalt.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 14:17:31


Post by: Seaward


 Forar wrote:
 Seaward wrote:
"Adult bullying." You learn something new and ludicrous every day.


I'm learning all kinds of things today.

The first one being that the US military's suicide rate went up 15% in 2012.

It'd be really callous of me to say something like "wow, guess even hardened individuals who've seen combat need to grow a thicker skin, since relationship problems seem to be one of the top issues reported. Yeah, yeah, strain of combat, separation from family and loved ones, horrible sights and situations, but if hundreds of thousands of others make it through just fine, I guess those 300-400 per year were just sissies", right?

Relationship issues is one of the top ones reported, eh? Where's "adult bullying" come in?



12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 14:23:42


Post by: scarletsquig


There's a distinct lack of being able to see things from another person's perspective in this thread.

The "get thicker skin, sissy" thing is the most useless bit of advice anyone can offer. I got that from my Dad when I was being bullied, he generally just advised me "go thump em", and was completely useless, not bothering to spend a second of time taking the concerns seriously, or even think about the practicalities/ consequences of actually doing so.

Never mind that I'm extremely slim-built, and the bullies in question were a gang of knife-weilding chavs (all expelled from school a long time ago) in an area of urban decay who would attack on sight.

Never mind that I'd seen someone else retaliate the previous year against the same people, he ended up with concussion, detached retinas and a 6-inch scar across his scalp.

I essentially viewed them as a pack of feral dogs, only more dangerous.

In the end it came down to my mother to offer some practical help in terms of:

a) Taxi to and from school. I didn't leave the house other than for school.
b) Moving the feth out of the godforsaken chav-infested craphole we were living in as soon as I turned 16. Moved to a different place, where I was totally happy and surprised to discover that people are actually quite nice and decent towards me and like me... which completely fixed any lingering doubts I might have had that I was to blame.

If you have kids that are being bullied, actually DO something, don't just give them some high and mighty pep-talk about how hard it was back in your day and to stop being a baby. It should be plainly blatantly obvious how that will come across to the kid, they will feel like it's "their fault" for not being tough enough if you start saying crap like that.

The realities of school life are a lot more brutal than you might realise, especially if you're living in a heavily urbanised or deprived area. I mostly learnt nothing from high school and the teachers in classes were primarily pre-occupied with trying to get the pupils to stop throwing chairs across the room for 5 minutes so they could make an attempt at teaching something. It was more like a zoo than a school, everything I learnt was from books.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 14:33:32


Post by: Alfndrate


I remember that second story, he was about my age.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 14:36:26


Post by: Seaward


 reds8n wrote:
http://www.ibtimes.com/danny-chen-suicide-8-army-soldiers-charged-racial-bullying-video-386630

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/08/private_keiffer_wilhelm_of_ohi.html


So your contention is it's two?

The reason I asked, of course, is because saying, "Hey, military suicide rates went up, 'adult bullying' is a problem!" is more than a tad disingenuous when you admit in the very same sentence that relationship issues were the top reason rather than, you know, 'adult bullying.'

But you knew that already.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 14:38:29


Post by: PhantomViper


 scarletsquig wrote:
There's a distinct lack of being able to see things from another person's perspective in this thread.

The "get thicker skin, sissy" thing is the most useless bit of advice anyone can offer. I got that from my Dad when I was being bullied, he generally just advised me "go thump em", and was completely useless, not bothering to spend a second of time taking the concerns seriously, or even think about the practicalities/ consequences of actually doing so.

Never mind that I'm extremely slim-built, and the bullies in question were a gang of knife-weilding chavs (all expelled from school a long time ago) in an area of urban decay who would attack on sight.

Never mind that I'd seen someone else retaliate the previous year against the same people, he ended up with concussion, detached retinas and a 6-inch scar across his scalp.

I essentially viewed them as a pack of feral dogs, only more dangerous.

In the end it came down to my mother to offer some practical help in terms of:

a) Taxi to and from school. I didn't leave the house other than for school.
b) Moving the feth out of the godforsaken chav-infested craphole we were living in as soon as I turned 16. Moved to a different place, where I was totally happy and surprised to discover that people are actually quite nice and decent towards me and like me... which completely fixed any lingering doubts I might have had that I was to blame.

If you have kids that are being bullied, actually DO something, don't just give them some high and mighty pep-talk about how hard it was back in your day and to stop being a baby. It should be plainly blatantly obvious how that will come across to the kid, they will feel like it's "their fault" for not being tough enough if you start saying crap like that.

The realities of school life are a lot more brutal than you might realise, especially if you're living in a heavily urbanised or deprived area. I mostly learnt nothing from high school and the teachers in classes were primarily pre-occupied with trying to get the pupils to stop throwing chairs across the room for 5 minutes so they could make an attempt at teaching something. It was more like a zoo than a school, everything I learnt was from books.


That is not bullying, that is criminal assault and what you should have done, and mainly what your parents should have done is report them to the cops, I feel sorry if when faced with the treat of armed assault all your mother and father had to offer was "get a cab" and "hit them back", those sound like some lousy parents.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 14:39:09


Post by: KalashnikovMarine


 Forar wrote:
 Seaward wrote:
"Adult bullying." You learn something new and ludicrous every day.


I'm learning all kinds of things today.

The first one being that the US military's suicide rate went up 15% in 2012.

It'd be really callous of me to say something like "wow, guess even hardened individuals who've seen combat need to grow a thicker skin, since relationship problems seem to be one of the top issues reported. Yeah, yeah, strain of combat, separation from family and loved ones, horrible sights and situations, but if hundreds of thousands of others make it through just fine, I guess those 300-400 per year were just sissies", right?

Or maybe mental health issues are a massive elephant in the room, and instead of belittling those who need help and are failed by those around them (the system, their teachers, their parents, their friends, whomever), we should take a step back and ask what can be done to stem the loss of life? Children are gakheads, no doubt about it. We all made it through elementary and high school with our own scars, mental and physical alike. That doesn't mean these kids aren't suffering in ways we can't even dream of, nor that we need to make it some kind of competition. People deal with the same stimuli differently, that doesn't make them wrong or bad or broken, it makes them human. The absolute crappiest day you've ever had, when you were at your absolute lowest, is just another day that ends in Y to someone else out there. And similarly, a 'meh' day for you might be one that another person would consider ending it all over.


22 Veterans a day suicide. I don't remember the rate for active duty, but it's high.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 14:41:04


Post by: reds8n


No, my contention is that bullying can, has and does have a part to play in some cases.





The reason I asked, of course, is because saying, "Hey, military suicide rates went up, 'adult bullying' is a problem!" is more than a tad disingenuous when you admit in the very same sentence that relationship issues were the top reason rather than, you know, 'adult bullying.'

But you knew that already.


I've said nothing of the sort.

I'd suggest rereading who said what




12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 14:43:48


Post by: Seaward


 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
22 Veterans a day suicide. I don't remember the rate for active duty, but it's high.

High compared to what? There were 349 total active duty suicides last year, which is tragic, but as a percentage, not terribly up there. It's 0.02%.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 reds8n wrote:
No, my contention is that bullying can, has and does have a part to play in some cases.





The reason I asked, of course, is because saying, "Hey, military suicide rates went up, 'adult bullying' is a problem!" is more than a tad disingenuous when you admit in the very same sentence that relationship issues were the top reason rather than, you know, 'adult bullying.'

But you knew that already.


I've said nothing of the sort.

I'd suggest rereading who said what

I did. I assumed by offering a grand total of two examples, you were standing in support of the original argument.

If not, I'm glad we're in agreement.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 14:52:43


Post by: KalashnikovMarine


 Seaward wrote:
 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
22 Veterans a day suicide. I don't remember the rate for active duty, but it's high.

High compared to what? There were 349 total active duty suicides last year, which is tragic, but as a percentage, not terribly up there. It's 0.02%.



Compared to the rest of the American population the military and veterans are an extremely at risk category. Personally I don't know about you and how you do things in the Navy, but losing just one we don't have to is too damn many. Maybe it's an officer thing.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 14:54:18


Post by: Captain Fantastic


I'd like to use words like "weak" and "pathetic", but I consider suicide on an hourly basis for no other reason than to end the monotony and boredom of daily life, so I'm in no position to talk.

Suicide really isn't a hard decision. When that's where your mind is, you can rationalize any repercussions you might think up, or wipe your regret beforehand. It's sad, but that's how it goes. I don't think these kids really realize how much their death impacts those around them.

I blame evolution. We've become smart enough to decide when to voluntarily end our lives. It makes me wonder about our higher purpose, and other things.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 14:55:40


Post by: Jihadin


The US Military’s suicide rate grew a startling 15 percent in 2012. The Pentagon, which has put great effort into lowering military suicide rates, has acknowledged that battle casualties are no longer the primary reason for soldiers’ deaths.

­Modern US warfare is Internet-centric and relies heavily on drones and robots, which has helped bring combat losses to historic lows; suicide now accounts for more deaths of US soldiers than battlefield conflict.

The official website of the US Department of Defense has published preliminary reports of at least 177 potential active-duty suicides and 126 potential non-active-duty suicides in 2012. The report reveals a marked surge in suicides since 2011, when 165 confirmed active-duty and 118 non-active-duty suicides were registered.

In all, 349 servicemembers in all branches of the US Military committed suicide in 2012, up 15 percent from 301 suicides in the military in 2011, AP reported, citing a Pentagon source. The number of US Military suicides in 2012 exceeded the total combat fatalities in Afghanistan in 2012, which the AP calculated at 295 deaths.

Reports on US military suicides have revealed that the US Army, the largest body within the US military (around 562,000 personnel), has the highest number and rate of military suicides: Over 32 per 100,000 troops.


The US Marines Corps (over 202,000 personnel) was second with nearly 24 suicides per 100,000 troops. The US Navy (around 323,000 personnel) and US Air Force (around 330,000 personnel) have practically identical suicide rates of 18 per 100,000 troops.


­US military suicide rate 2012

US Army – 182 suicides
US Marines Corps – 48 suicides
US Navy – 60 suicides
US Air Force – 59 suicides

The average suicide rate in the US military – 24 suicides per 100,000 soldiers – is lower than the civilian suicide rate for men aged 17 to 60 – 25 suicides per 100,000 in 2010.

The latest US military suicide statistics for 2011 suggest that a suicidal soldier is usually an unmarried white man under the age of 25, recently enlisted and with less than a college education. Around 60 percent of military suicides are committed with firearms, though in most cases the guns are personally owned, not military-issued.

The Pentagon has instated several measures in a bid to curb the rising number of suicides. For example, soldiers and their family members can receive professional psychological help from the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline, where “trained consultants are available 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year.”

The US Army sponsors research into medications to prevent suicides, such as a nasal spray that eliminates suicidal thoughts. But despite these breakthroughs, the problem has continued to grow.

David Rudd, a military suicide researcher and dean of the College of Social and Behavioral Sciences at the University of Utah, told AP that he is not optimistic about further anti-suicide developments. “Actually, we may continue to see increases,” Rudd explained, adding that Iraq and Afghanistan war veterans commit suicides because of PTSD, depression, alcohol and substance abuse, while those not deployed take their lives because of problems with relationships, finances or the law.

The suicide rate among veterans vastly exceeds that of active-duty troops. According to estimates last year by the US Department of Veterans’ Affairs, a US military veteran commits suicide every 80 minutes – totaling 18 veterans a day.


In 2010, the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America nonprofit reported that veterans account for 20 percent of the 30,000 annual US suicides, though only 1 percent of Americans have served in the military.

“Despite the increased efforts, the increased attention, the trends continue to move in a troubling and tragic direction,” Defense Secretary Leon Panetta acknowledged at a joint suicide prevention conference between the Pentagon and Department of Veterans’ Affairs in June 2012.


Should have posted the article.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 14:58:12


Post by: reds8n


I'm sure there are other examples.

As to the %s involved I've no idea.


One would imagine that the tasks, sights etc that people suffer through and things like the affect of distance on relationships and so forth would be responsible for the greatest % of difficulties.

But that doesn't mean it's not an issue. hence why they have all those anti hazing policies and the like.


Mr. Phantom Viper stop spamming the thread with off topic stuff.



12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 14:59:43


Post by: Seaward


 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Compared to the rest of the American population the military and veterans are an extremely at risk category. Personally I don't know about you and how you do things in the Navy, but losing just one we don't have to is too damn many. Maybe it's an officer thing.

It's not an "officer thing." It's simply disagreeing that the active duty suicide rate is particularly high. It's quite low, compared to the civilian rate.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 15:09:07


Post by: d-usa


This thread makes pretty clear that there are a number of people that are just not worth listening to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Seaward wrote:
 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Compared to the rest of the American population the military and veterans are an extremely at risk category. Personally I don't know about you and how you do things in the Navy, but losing just one we don't have to is too damn many. Maybe it's an officer thing.

It's not an "officer thing." It's simply disagreeing that the active duty suicide rate is particularly high. It's quite low, compared to the civilian rate.


The veteran rate is twice as high as the civilian rate.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 15:10:59


Post by: Alfndrate


 d-usa wrote:
This thread makes pretty clear that there are a number of people that are just not worth listening to.

Oh... I'm sorry d-usa I'll go back to my corner.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 15:13:27


Post by: Seaward


 d-usa wrote:
This thread makes pretty clear that there are a number of people that are just not worth listening to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Seaward wrote:
 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Compared to the rest of the American population the military and veterans are an extremely at risk category. Personally I don't know about you and how you do things in the Navy, but losing just one we don't have to is too damn many. Maybe it's an officer thing.

It's not an "officer thing." It's simply disagreeing that the active duty suicide rate is particularly high. It's quite low, compared to the civilian rate.


The veteran rate is twice as high as the civilian rate.

But the active duty rate is lower.

Tell me where the breakdown in comprehension's occurring and I'll do my best to explain. All veterans are not currently active duty, for one thing. I was simply disagreeing that the active duty rate is particularly high. If you've numbers to the contrary, you're more than welcome to provide them.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 15:15:33


Post by: Ahtman


If you parse that down even more to only the active duty who have never committed or attempted suicide that number drops even more.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 15:20:28


Post by: Seaward


 Ahtman wrote:
If you parse that down even more to only the active duty who have never committed or attempted suicide that number drops even more.

Undoubtedly.

But let's look at this another way. Let's pretend someone said that suicide rates among the elderly were high. You had numbers suggesting they were actually quite low, and said as much. Suppose then that I came into the thread and said, "Actually, suicide rates among Americans are quite high." That may very well be true, but it's not what was initially being argued.

Regardless, something tells me that not a lot of those discharged veteran suicides are due to 'adult bullying,' which makes the entire tangent irrelevant. Which guarantees it'll be chased for another day or two.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 15:20:42


Post by: Jihadin


I've an appointment to hit up but I want to see where the military topic of suicide leads to. Just want to see what is everyone perception is first.

Red I get back to you on the hazing. I blame the USMC Recon for that exposure. When some of the members came back from Airborne school at Ft Benning GA and got "Cherry Blasted"


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 15:20:56


Post by: whembly


 Seaward wrote:
Man. Never set foot in a squadron ready room, that's all I'll say.

On topic, I think blaming the victim is a tad harsh in this particular case, but I'm perfectly fine with blaming all involved parents.

Exactly... this, THIS is where it needs to start.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ouze wrote:
Yeah, they say violence never solves anything, but in my experience it actually totally solves lots of things.

Your mileage may vary.


I...
Um...

That's like saying "money talks"... all it ever said to me was "good bye".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Frazzled wrote:
Of course there were mental issues, she was 12 dude. They are a walking mental issue until they hit about 17.

Twelve.

I'm sorry but if I am the dad I am rampaging with a shotgun.

Agreed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Seaward wrote:
Nah. I vote we send every 10 year-old in America to a modified version of SERE.



Uh... I'm sure that'll shock their worldview a bit. That is... most of them are going to realize just HOW GOOD THEY HAVE IT.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 15:23:26


Post by: Ahtman


 Jihadin wrote:
I blame the USMC Recon for that exposure.


I blame Aaron Sorkin.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 15:26:40


Post by: reds8n


.... guessing I don't want to Google that whilst at work maybe ..?

I think there's always going to be a thin line a'twixt hazing and bullying.

You'll never entirely eliminate the former through any realistic means -- and to a certain extent I'm not sure that would even be desirable. One can appreciate that a certain amount of espirit de Corps, bonhomie or however one wishes to phrase it is a good thing.

But, of course, there needs to be procedures in place for as/when/if this goes too far.

Which there appear to be and one assumes they generally work.

But like all policies they'll need to be looked at or reconsidered every now and again.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 15:45:38


Post by: Jihadin


Hazing on that one I mention was "Blood Wings"
Think the US Army got nailed with "Blood Ranks"
Navy got nailed with "Shellback"
Think the Air Force is denied the Hotel Suite for one week.....




Red. Jump to 1:55. Turn the volume down and try not to cringe or laugh or whatever

edit 2
Yes. A lot of Alcohol is involved


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 15:47:12


Post by: Ouze


 Jihadin wrote:
Think the Air Force is denied the Hotel Suite for one week.....


They get the suite, but there is no mint on the pillow.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 15:48:51


Post by: Seaward


 Jihadin wrote:
Navy got nailed with "Shellback"

Which is a little ridiculous. Crossing the line ceremonies are downright ancient, and crawling through grease ain't the worst thing in the world, but whatever.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 15:50:35


Post by: Ahtman


Even the glorious Emperor of Mankind understood the dangers of the warrior lodge. Loken was the hero we deserved but not the one that we needed.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 15:50:49


Post by: Jihadin


Oi? What's this I hear about eating an olive out of a belly button a Chief or something...and off to my appt.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 15:52:06


Post by: Seaward


 Jihadin wrote:
Oi? What's this I hear about eating an olive out of a belly button a Chief or something...and off to my appt.

Officially, I'd say such things do not occur.

Unofficially, I'd ask how cute she is before deciding.

Besides, we've already covered "it's an officer thing" in this thread already, and going from pollywog to shellback as a commissioned officer just means having to make your own martinis and do your own pedicures for a day.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 16:35:02


Post by: Captain Fantastic


 Jihadin wrote:
Hazing on that one I mention was "Blood Wings"
Think the US Army got nailed with "Blood Ranks"
Navy got nailed with "Shellback"
Think the Air Force is denied the Hotel Suite for one week.....




Yes. A lot of Alcohol is involved


Sorry, there was nothing really funny about that. I could feel his drunken pain after about five or six elbow thrusts into the chest. Luckily, gold wings are probably made out of the same crappy anodized brass as collar EGAs, so they probably got dull after three or four punches...

I have mixed feelings about hazing. Yes, it builds charisma among the unit and crap like that, but it's really just embarrassing nonsense. We have internet in the barracks to keep ourselves occupied now.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 19:53:47


Post by: Da Boss


ITT i.ternet tough guys disparage 12 year old suicide victim and win Victim Blaming award.
Cyberbullying is difficult because it follows the kid home, can involve potentially dozens of students outside the normal group and is generally not taken seriously by adults as they are too old to have experienced it. I am on my phone so typing is a pain, but in 4 years of teaching I have seen multiple cases that resulted in students (usually vulnerable girls) suffering serious ill effects.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 20:12:57


Post by: daedalus


I'm still just blown away that we allow this kind of unrestricted access to the internet to 12 year olds.

I've SEEN the internet. It's not something I'd let my 12 year old close to, were I to have one.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 20:40:31


Post by: whembly


 daedalus wrote:
I'm still just blown away that we allow this kind of unrestricted access to the internet to 12 year olds.

I've SEEN the internet. It's not something I'd let my 12 year old close to, were I to have one.

This!

My eldest is on a minecraft kick and watching youtube videos... I'm keeping an eye on my squiggy. o.O



12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 22:23:44


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


 Frankenberry wrote:



Now all we need to do is wait for the "ban the internet" policies that I'm sure will appear.



No no... first we regulate against the "Assault internet" and "high capacity download clips" or some such nonsense


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 22:29:35


Post by: whembly


 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
 Frankenberry wrote:



Now all we need to do is wait for the "ban the internet" policies that I'm sure will appear.



No no... first we regulate against the "Assault internet" and "high capacity download clips" or some such nonsense

Actually, it's
"We need to CRASSIUS ASSAULT TRANSPORT, against "CRASSIUS ASSAULT TRANSPORT internet" and "high CRASSIUS ASSAULT TRANSPORT download clips."

Am I doing that right?


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 22:39:36


Post by: hotsauceman1


 daedalus wrote:
I'm still just blown away that we allow this kind of unrestricted access to the internet to 12 year olds.

I've SEEN the internet. It's not something I'd let my 12 year old close to, were I to have one.

That is harder then you think. first do you have a computer in the house? Second are you always there? Third can you regulate what they do online w/o constant watching? Third can you see what they do at school? what about hat a friends house or library or internet cafe?


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/13 22:42:21


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
 daedalus wrote:
I'm still just blown away that we allow this kind of unrestricted access to the internet to 12 year olds.

I've SEEN the internet. It's not something I'd let my 12 year old close to, were I to have one.

That is harder then you think. first do you have a computer in the house? Second are you always there? Third can you regulate what they do online w/o constant watching? Third can you see what they do at school? what about hat a friends house or library or internet cafe?



At 12, they will have a "Kids" user account which they will be able to log into... the internet filter will be so strict, they'll be lucky if they can get to Wikipedia. School is different, of course, but that's where I get onto their teachers... Library/internet cafe will not happen without either myself or the wife. And they won't be allowed to friends houses without my prior meeting the parents... and should they go to that friends house without permission... well, they'd best hope they can summon all the Cavalry Heroes resting at Fiddlers Green.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/14 00:23:59


Post by: daedalus


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
 daedalus wrote:
I'm still just blown away that we allow this kind of unrestricted access to the internet to 12 year olds.

I've SEEN the internet. It's not something I'd let my 12 year old close to, were I to have one.

That is harder then you think. first do you have a computer in the house? Second are you always there? Third can you regulate what they do online w/o constant watching? Third can you see what they do at school? what about hat a friends house or library or internet cafe?


From a technical point of view, you can configure whitelists for sites allowed to be accessible through the child's device that would be safe enough. Want more? Come ask me like a mature adult, and we'll discuss what and when. I don't need to always be there, because the whitelist is.

I can regulate where they go. I can also capture network traffic to search for keywords or applications that would be disturbing. It's disturbingly easy, especially when you have access to the home router.

You have third out there twice, but schools used to police that kind of stuff, and I would hope still do.

As far as friend's houses, well, if my parents were actually able to monitor and control 100% of what I did as a kid, I'd probably be more screwed up than I am now. Occasional peeks into the stuff shuffled under the rug isn't evil, the important part is that they're not saturating themselves with it.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/14 00:30:23


Post by: hotsauceman1


I get defensive about bullies,sorrt with being bullied myself I thought suicide.
I just dont get why we are blaming everyone here but the bullies. People thend to think it makes you strong when it really doesnt. Sure brushing off the occasional fat joke or off hand comment is possible and does build thicker skin. But when you are relentlessly hammered over and over again by bullies it breaks your spirit, especially if you have a narrow world view like most teens. For teens, the world begins and ends at school. It consumes their life and they sometimes grow a mindset that this is what the world is like, confining and tortourous What we really need to do is get schools to crack down on this kind of stuff


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/14 00:37:13


Post by: daedalus


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I get defensive about bullies,sorrt with being bullied myself I thought suicide.
I just dont get why we are blaming everyone here but the bullies. People thend to think it makes you strong when it really doesnt. Sure brushing off the occasional fat joke or off hand comment is possible and does build thicker skin. But when you are relentlessly hammered over and over again by bullies it breaks your spirit, especially if you have a narrow world view like most teens. For teens, the world begins and ends at school. It consumes their life and they sometimes grow a mindset that this is what the world is like, confining and tortourous What we really need to do is get schools to crack down on this kind of stuff


Well, the problem with bullies is that they:

- Like the internet, can't be policed 24/7.
- Require public servants to utilize their own discretion, personal judgement, and common sense. For some reason, we don't want to let this happen.
- Operate in ways that we don't actually fully understand. Why do people, not just kids, but people in general, bully? How do you "fix" them?


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/14 00:39:37


Post by: Jihadin


I don't like bullies myself. Most bullies are all air and no substance. My little guy pounded Chucklehead two times. Suspended both times. As long as he doesn't take it beyond common sense then he's alright. Common sense is stopping the pounding knowing you won and not inflicting pain just to inflict pain.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/14 01:31:13


Post by: KalashnikovMarine


I got blood winged and ranked, in addition to the usual hazing that just goes with being a Marine. That gak hurt. I missed out on Corporal though because of my medical separation, so I got to skip the ancient ritual of blood striping. Wherein all the NCOs in your shop beat your "blood stripes" into your legs. (Blood stripes being the famous red trouser stripe on Marine Corps dress blue uniforms, only NCOs and above wear the stripe, thus the ceremony regarding the transition)


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/14 02:49:59


Post by: Forar


... you guys have some weird traditions.

What? I couldn't be the only one thinking it. :-P


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/14 04:12:25


Post by: Jihadin


Forar. Look up why the Canadian Airborne force was deactivated in early-mid nineties


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/14 15:37:25


Post by: Forar


 Jihadin wrote:
Forar. Look up why the Canadian Airborne force was deactivated in early-mid nineties


Oh, I'm aware of their bull...gak.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/14 16:36:11


Post by: daedalus


Relevant:


Student arrested for using phone app to “shoot” classmates

http://wgno.com/2013/09/12/a-student-accused-of-using-a-mobile-app/#ixzz2esy5e8pa

Kid cites bullying as reason for using phone app to pretend shoot classmates.

He [Major Malcolm Wolfe] says the student was arrested for terrorizing and interference of the operation of a school.

Bullies, presumably, laugh about it.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/14 19:56:10


Post by: BuFFo


 cincydooley wrote:
Okay, so I'll ask the stupid question:

Is it really so hard to turn off the computer? I mean, really.


Actually, yes, it is.

When I read these threads, I see a bunch of old people who are out of touch with the complex social situations of young children.

My niece is 18. When she was 5, she had her own phone and other electronic devices. That was around 1999. Now imagine a 12 year old. Roughly, people who are 20 years or younger have lived and are living a life COCOONED within technology and online society. Sorry to be the bearer of new news, but times have changed my old grump friends.

Kids live a life enveloped within online social tendrils that permeates their entire lives to an extend we never did. When 'we' were bullied (I am 33) it was typically either at school, or at worst, in my neighborhood, outside my house. You know what kind of fear I lived in? I lived in fear of going to school and seeing the people bullying me on the bus, during recess, and after school. That was it. When I was HOME, I was safe. I played with my nintendo, gi joes, my next door neighbor, swam in my pool, etc... I had sanctuary to keep me safe and sane.

You know what kind of sanctuary these kids have now a days? None. Kids go home and everything social is done on their computers, on their phones, their handheld devices. Kids are wrapped in their social lives 24/7, literally. It is all around them, and they really can't escape it. The only way life when we were kids came close to this is when people called our house constantly, but eventually our parents would tell them to stop, or call their parents and that would normally end.

Kids these days don't have it that easy. They log on their computer to do research for the homework their teachers gave them, and they are receiving constant bombardment of hate and evil beeping, never ending. Alert! Jan says kill yourself. Alert! Jamahl wants you to die! Email! Marrissa says you are ugly and you aren't invited to any birthday parties in the neighborhood.

Basically, kids live in a world most of you say you understand, but obviously don't, due to the ignorant remarks always made here about "toughen up" or "turn your electronics off and play with dirt in the yard". Times are always changing, and 12 year olds have to live with the change, not us. How about we be a little more enlightened here?



12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/14 20:06:04


Post by: d-usa


The bullied kid can turn have every single one of their electronic devices turned off, no problem there.

But the problem with cyber bullying is that it is not a 1-on-1 type of situation. Cyber Bullying includes the targeting of somebody in front of a huge audience.

The bullied kid might turn off his computer and not go on Facebook for a week. But during that week the bullies continue to post stuff, which continues to get shared to the rest of the school, which continues to get lots of comments and likes, which continues to contribute to real-life bullying when the kid goes to school the next day and has to deal with the 500 kids that saw the latest post making fun of him online and laughing at him in person now and continuing the taunts.

"Old school bullying" stopped once you got home. Cyber bullying doesn't stop.

"Turn off the computer, how hard can that be" is just as effective as telling a kid that is standing in front of an auditorium full of people screaming and laughing at him to "just stick your fingers in your ear and stop listening, how hard can that be".



12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/14 20:50:01


Post by: Ahtman


I'm working on a new book: Suicidal Children: Why Don't They Man Up and Get Over It.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/14 20:51:32


Post by: SlaveToDorkness


But isn't there some component of victim reaction to it? Like old bullying?


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/14 21:06:31


Post by: Ahtman


You don't need 'victim reaction' as long as you are getting some kind of reaction, and if you are posting on social media site the odds are someone will be reacting, even if it is someone saying to leave him/her alone or others encouraging them. Any form or audience will do, not just the victim.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/14 21:18:44


Post by: Inquisitor Ehrenstein


For some reason this makes me think of Bloodreaper... It would not have anything to do with his cyberbullying my Autistic friend in any way.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/14 21:22:48


Post by: -Shrike-


 BuFFo wrote:
 cincydooley wrote:
Okay, so I'll ask the stupid question:

Is it really so hard to turn off the computer? I mean, really.


Actually, yes, it is.

When I read these threads, I see a bunch of old people who are out of touch with the complex social situations of young children.

My niece is 18. When she was 5, she had her own phone and other electronic devices. That was around 1999. Now imagine a 12 year old. Roughly, people who are 20 years or younger have lived and are living a life COCOONED within technology and online society. Sorry to be the bearer of new news, but times have changed my old grump friends.

Kids live a life enveloped within online social tendrils that permeates their entire lives to an extend we never did. When 'we' were bullied (I am 33) it was typically either at school, or at worst, in my neighborhood, outside my house. You know what kind of fear I lived in? I lived in fear of going to school and seeing the people bullying me on the bus, during recess, and after school. That was it. When I was HOME, I was safe. I played with my nintendo, gi joes, my next door neighbor, swam in my pool, etc... I had sanctuary to keep me safe and sane.

You know what kind of sanctuary these kids have now a days? None. Kids go home and everything social is done on their computers, on their phones, their handheld devices. Kids are wrapped in their social lives 24/7, literally. It is all around them, and they really can't escape it. The only way life when we were kids came close to this is when people called our house constantly, but eventually our parents would tell them to stop, or call their parents and that would normally end.

Kids these days don't have it that easy. They log on their computer to do research for the homework their teachers gave them, and they are receiving constant bombardment of hate and evil beeping, never ending. Alert! Jan says kill yourself. Alert! Jamahl wants you to die! Email! Marrissa says you are ugly and you aren't invited to any birthday parties in the neighborhood.

Basically, kids live in a world most of you say you understand, but obviously don't, due to the ignorant remarks always made here about "toughen up" or "turn your electronics off and play with dirt in the yard". Times are always changing, and 12 year olds have to live with the change, not us. How about we be a little more enlightened here?



I'm 16, and the only interaction I have with people on the Internet is on a couple of forums which cannot be traced back to me (without some serious work). It's possible to distance yourself from it in such a way that you are almost looking at the Internet though a mirror - no one you know can find you.

I'm not disagreeing with you as such, I'm just pointing out that it is definitely possible to avoid the barrage of hate you mentioned above whilst still being able to use the internet.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/14 21:24:35


Post by: motyak


 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
For some reason this makes me think of Bloodreaper... It would not have anything to do with his cyberbullying my Autistic friend in any way.


You need to provide irrefutable proof of this, or else you are just slandering another user in a very serious way, which is against Dakka's rules.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/14 21:30:49


Post by: Inquisitor Ehrenstein


 motyak wrote:
 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
For some reason this makes me think of Bloodreaper... It would not have anything to do with his cyberbullying my Autistic friend in any way.


You need to provide irrefutable proof of this, or else you are just slandering another user in a very serious way, which is against Dakka's rules.


That would involve posting his dox. Besides, he already posted harassing comments against him here.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/14 21:32:34


Post by: -Shrike-


Dox? Could you explain?


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/14 21:35:22


Post by: motyak


 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
 motyak wrote:
 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
For some reason this makes me think of Bloodreaper... It would not have anything to do with his cyberbullying my Autistic friend in any way.


You need to provide irrefutable proof of this, or else you are just slandering another user in a very serious way, which is against Dakka's rules.


That would involve posting his dox. Besides, he already posted harassing comments against him here.


Whereabouts? I haven't seen him cyberbully an autistic person, but I may have just missed the posts. You should link to it. Until you do, your justification is "I can totally prove it but I won't", which isn't good enough.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/14 21:42:54


Post by: BuFFo


-Shrike- wrote:
 BuFFo wrote:
 cincydooley wrote:
Okay, so I'll ask the stupid question:

Is it really so hard to turn off the computer? I mean, really.


Actually, yes, it is.

When I read these threads, I see a bunch of old people who are out of touch with the complex social situations of young children.

My niece is 18. When she was 5, she had her own phone and other electronic devices. That was around 1999. Now imagine a 12 year old. Roughly, people who are 20 years or younger have lived and are living a life COCOONED within technology and online society. Sorry to be the bearer of new news, but times have changed my old grump friends.

Kids live a life enveloped within online social tendrils that permeates their entire lives to an extend we never did. When 'we' were bullied (I am 33) it was typically either at school, or at worst, in my neighborhood, outside my house. You know what kind of fear I lived in? I lived in fear of going to school and seeing the people bullying me on the bus, during recess, and after school. That was it. When I was HOME, I was safe. I played with my nintendo, gi joes, my next door neighbor, swam in my pool, etc... I had sanctuary to keep me safe and sane.

You know what kind of sanctuary these kids have now a days? None. Kids go home and everything social is done on their computers, on their phones, their handheld devices. Kids are wrapped in their social lives 24/7, literally. It is all around them, and they really can't escape it. The only way life when we were kids came close to this is when people called our house constantly, but eventually our parents would tell them to stop, or call their parents and that would normally end.

Kids these days don't have it that easy. They log on their computer to do research for the homework their teachers gave them, and they are receiving constant bombardment of hate and evil beeping, never ending. Alert! Jan says kill yourself. Alert! Jamahl wants you to die! Email! Marrissa says you are ugly and you aren't invited to any birthday parties in the neighborhood.

Basically, kids live in a world most of you say you understand, but obviously don't, due to the ignorant remarks always made here about "toughen up" or "turn your electronics off and play with dirt in the yard". Times are always changing, and 12 year olds have to live with the change, not us. How about we be a little more enlightened here?



I'm 16, and the only interaction I have with people on the Internet is on a couple of forums which cannot be traced back to me (without some serious work). It's possible to distance yourself from it in such a way that you are almost looking at the Internet though a mirror - no one you know can find you.

I'm not disagreeing with you as such, I'm just pointing out that it is definitely possible to avoid the barrage of hate you mentioned above whilst still being able to use the internet.


And I hope you understand the simple fact that you and the life you lead are not the 12 year old girl and the life she led. Most young people live online, heck, most people I know 30 - 40 years old live online in today's world.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/14 21:45:43


Post by: Inquisitor Ehrenstein


 motyak wrote:
 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
 motyak wrote:
 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
For some reason this makes me think of Bloodreaper... It would not have anything to do with his cyberbullying my Autistic friend in any way.


You need to provide irrefutable proof of this, or else you are just slandering another user in a very serious way, which is against Dakka's rules.


That would involve posting his dox. Besides, he already posted harassing comments against him here.


Whereabouts? I haven't seen him cyberbully an autistic person, but I may have just missed the posts. You should link to it. Until you do, your justification is "I can totally prove it but I won't", which isn't good enough.


He vandalized the gak out of a wiki that I made for my friend.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/14 21:53:26


Post by: -Shrike-


 BuFFo wrote:
-Shrike- wrote:
 BuFFo wrote:
 cincydooley wrote:
Okay, so I'll ask the stupid question:

Is it really so hard to turn off the computer? I mean, really.


Actually, yes, it is.

When I read these threads, I see a bunch of old people who are out of touch with the complex social situations of young children.

My niece is 18. When she was 5, she had her own phone and other electronic devices. That was around 1999. Now imagine a 12 year old. Roughly, people who are 20 years or younger have lived and are living a life COCOONED within technology and online society. Sorry to be the bearer of new news, but times have changed my old grump friends.

Kids live a life enveloped within online social tendrils that permeates their entire lives to an extend we never did. When 'we' were bullied (I am 33) it was typically either at school, or at worst, in my neighborhood, outside my house. You know what kind of fear I lived in? I lived in fear of going to school and seeing the people bullying me on the bus, during recess, and after school. That was it. When I was HOME, I was safe. I played with my nintendo, gi joes, my next door neighbor, swam in my pool, etc... I had sanctuary to keep me safe and sane.

You know what kind of sanctuary these kids have now a days? None. Kids go home and everything social is done on their computers, on their phones, their handheld devices. Kids are wrapped in their social lives 24/7, literally. It is all around them, and they really can't escape it. The only way life when we were kids came close to this is when people called our house constantly, but eventually our parents would tell them to stop, or call their parents and that would normally end.

Kids these days don't have it that easy. They log on their computer to do research for the homework their teachers gave them, and they are receiving constant bombardment of hate and evil beeping, never ending. Alert! Jan says kill yourself. Alert! Jamahl wants you to die! Email! Marrissa says you are ugly and you aren't invited to any birthday parties in the neighborhood.

Basically, kids live in a world most of you say you understand, but obviously don't, due to the ignorant remarks always made here about "toughen up" or "turn your electronics off and play with dirt in the yard". Times are always changing, and 12 year olds have to live with the change, not us. How about we be a little more enlightened here?



I'm 16, and the only interaction I have with people on the Internet is on a couple of forums which cannot be traced back to me (without some serious work). It's possible to distance yourself from it in such a way that you are almost looking at the Internet though a mirror - no one you know can find you.

I'm not disagreeing with you as such, I'm just pointing out that it is definitely possible to avoid the barrage of hate you mentioned above whilst still being able to use the internet.


And I hope you understand the simple fact that you and the life you lead are not the 12 year old girl and the life she led. Most young people live online, heck, most people I know 30 - 40 years old live online in today's world.


I know, I understand people like me are relatively uncommon. I just don't like absolutes in this context; it's not impossible to extricate yourself from the Internet, although I realise that for a lot of people, it's very hard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
 motyak wrote:
 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
 motyak wrote:
 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
For some reason this makes me think of Bloodreaper... It would not have anything to do with his cyberbullying my Autistic friend in any way.


You need to provide irrefutable proof of this, or else you are just slandering another user in a very serious way, which is against Dakka's rules.


That would involve posting his dox. Besides, he already posted harassing comments against him here.


Whereabouts? I haven't seen him cyberbully an autistic person, but I may have just missed the posts. You should link to it. Until you do, your justification is "I can totally prove it but I won't", which isn't good enough.


He vandalized the gak out of a wiki that I made for my friend.


Is this the wiki in your sig?


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/14 22:06:11


Post by: motyak


 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
 motyak wrote:
 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
 motyak wrote:
 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
For some reason this makes me think of Bloodreaper... It would not have anything to do with his cyberbullying my Autistic friend in any way.


You need to provide irrefutable proof of this, or else you are just slandering another user in a very serious way, which is against Dakka's rules.


That would involve posting his dox. Besides, he already posted harassing comments against him here.


Whereabouts? I haven't seen him cyberbully an autistic person, but I may have just missed the posts. You should link to it. Until you do, your justification is "I can totally prove it but I won't", which isn't good enough.


He vandalized the gak out of a wiki that I made for my friend.


The proof, it is missing.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/14 22:19:44


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


 BuFFo wrote:
-Shrike- wrote:
 BuFFo wrote:
 cincydooley wrote:
Okay, so I'll ask the stupid question:

Is it really so hard to turn off the computer? I mean, really.


Actually, yes, it is.

When I read these threads, I see a bunch of old people who are out of touch with the complex social situations of young children.

My niece is 18. When she was 5, she had her own phone and other electronic devices. That was around 1999. Now imagine a 12 year old. Roughly, people who are 20 years or younger have lived and are living a life COCOONED within technology and online society. Sorry to be the bearer of new news, but times have changed my old grump friends.

Kids live a life enveloped within online social tendrils that permeates their entire lives to an extend we never did. When 'we' were bullied (I am 33) it was typically either at school, or at worst, in my neighborhood, outside my house. You know what kind of fear I lived in? I lived in fear of going to school and seeing the people bullying me on the bus, during recess, and after school. That was it. When I was HOME, I was safe. I played with my nintendo, gi joes, my next door neighbor, swam in my pool, etc... I had sanctuary to keep me safe and sane.

You know what kind of sanctuary these kids have now a days? None. Kids go home and everything social is done on their computers, on their phones, their handheld devices. Kids are wrapped in their social lives 24/7, literally. It is all around them, and they really can't escape it. The only way life when we were kids came close to this is when people called our house constantly, but eventually our parents would tell them to stop, or call their parents and that would normally end.

Kids these days don't have it that easy. They log on their computer to do research for the homework their teachers gave them, and they are receiving constant bombardment of hate and evil beeping, never ending. Alert! Jan says kill yourself. Alert! Jamahl wants you to die! Email! Marrissa says you are ugly and you aren't invited to any birthday parties in the neighborhood.

Basically, kids live in a world most of you say you understand, but obviously don't, due to the ignorant remarks always made here about "toughen up" or "turn your electronics off and play with dirt in the yard". Times are always changing, and 12 year olds have to live with the change, not us. How about we be a little more enlightened here?



I'm 16, and the only interaction I have with people on the Internet is on a couple of forums which cannot be traced back to me (without some serious work). It's possible to distance yourself from it in such a way that you are almost looking at the Internet though a mirror - no one you know can find you.

I'm not disagreeing with you as such, I'm just pointing out that it is definitely possible to avoid the barrage of hate you mentioned above whilst still being able to use the internet.


And I hope you understand the simple fact that you and the life you lead are not the 12 year old girl and the life she led. Most young people live online, heck, most people I know 30 - 40 years old live online in today's world.



I don't like dealing in absolutes either... BUT there are SO MANY outlets out there for people who feel they are being bullied... There's sports like Rugby, where here in the States you don't need any great athletic ability to play, just the wilingness to show up, put in the work and be a good teammate. There's various drama clubs, reading clubs, etc. there are outlets that do not involve the internet where those who don't fit in with various idiotic social circles can go, and get support and care from like minded individuals.

Yes, there are adult bullies, I've personally seen this happen, even within the military. This is unfortunately a part of life, but there are ALWAYS positive ways to deal with it, suicide should never, ever be on the table.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 01:00:02


Post by: Inquisitor Ehrenstein


 motyak wrote:
 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
 motyak wrote:
 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
 motyak wrote:
 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
For some reason this makes me think of Bloodreaper... It would not have anything to do with his cyberbullying my Autistic friend in any way.


You need to provide irrefutable proof of this, or else you are just slandering another user in a very serious way, which is against Dakka's rules.


That would involve posting his dox. Besides, he already posted harassing comments against him here.


Whereabouts? I haven't seen him cyberbully an autistic person, but I may have just missed the posts. You should link to it. Until you do, your justification is "I can totally prove it but I won't", which isn't good enough.


He vandalized the gak out of a wiki that I made for my friend.


The proof, it is missing.


"Proof" would require that I post his personal information, which I will not.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 01:09:15


Post by: motyak


 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

"Proof" would require that I post his personal information, which I will not.


Then don't come slinging mud if all you have to go on is 'its totally the case'. But its clear that you won't, so I'm out.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 01:59:27


Post by: Inquisitor Ehrenstein


 motyak wrote:
 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

"Proof" would require that I post his personal information, which I will not.


Then don't come slinging mud if all you have to go on is 'its totally the case'. But its clear that you won't, so I'm out.


He posted in a discussion on Dakka about how hilarious the trolling was, that I shouldn't undo it, and "speculated" about methods the vandal was using to get around IP blocks. He also confessed on my Sturmkrieg talk page.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 02:45:30


Post by: Alfndrate


 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
 motyak wrote:
 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

"Proof" would require that I post his personal information, which I will not.


Then don't come slinging mud if all you have to go on is 'its totally the case'. But its clear that you won't, so I'm out.


He posted in a discussion on Dakka about how hilarious the trolling was, that I shouldn't undo it, and "speculated" about methods the vandal was using to get around IP blocks. He also confessed on my Sturmkrieg talk page.

Then help your friend get the coping methods so he can deal with it... You spout the same stuff in all of these bullying threads and it always boils down to, "I'm not going to give you the proof you need, so you just have to believe me, because reasons."

Jesus dude...


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 02:51:09


Post by: d-usa


People who complain about being bullied are weak and too stupid to cope with it. Let me complain about bullying though...


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 02:58:25


Post by: Alfndrate


 d-usa wrote:
Let me complain about bullying though...

Spoiler:


This cat says it far better than I do.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 03:12:17


Post by: SlaveToDorkness


 Alfndrate wrote:
 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
 motyak wrote:
 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

"Proof" would require that I post his personal information, which I will not.


Then don't come slinging mud if all you have to go on is 'its totally the case'. But its clear that you won't, so I'm out.


He posted in a discussion on Dakka about how hilarious the trolling was, that I shouldn't undo it, and "speculated" about methods the vandal was using to get around IP blocks. He also confessed on my Sturmkrieg talk page.

Then help your friend get the coping methods so he can deal with it... You spout the same stuff in all of these bullying threads and it always boils down to, "I'm not going to give you the proof you need, so you just have to believe me, because reasons."

Jesus dude...


There is a good reason the 'Ignore' function exists. Unless someone continually quotes them...


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 04:45:01


Post by: cadbren


 cincydooley wrote:
Okay, so I'll ask the stupid question:

Is it really so hard to turn off the computer? I mean, really.

Yes it is. Have you not seen how much time many younger people spend online? Desktops, laptops, cellphones, ipads, getting online is easy and many heavily socialise this way.
Heck, people break up with text messages, some people have even been fired via text or email - yes they do get compensation for wrongful dismissal but society is a changing and not all for the better.

As for being bullied as an adult - happens all the time in the workforce. People don't stop being jerks when they leave school. Not exactly bullying, but something that is common is people badmouthing the quality of work in the hopes that they'll get more work (for free) from the person who did the work. The idea being that they'll feel embarassed that their work wasn't good enough so they put in extra to make up except of cource that there was nothing wrong with their work. Customers also do this to try and get more work out of a tradesman or get a reduced bill.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 07:20:35


Post by: dogma


 d-usa wrote:
The bullied kid can turn have every single one of their electronic devices turned off, no problem there.


I thought Marcuse was dead.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 09:25:44


Post by: Imposter101


 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
For some reason this makes me think of Bloodreaper... It would not have anything to do with his cyberbullying my Autistic friend in any way.


Your forgetting that Bloodrepear had Aspergers right? And you made a page lying about him on your wiki? And you asked when he was trolling, if you should even help Dark Emperor with the wiki, which he never actually visited. You also seem to assume everyone was knowledge that your friend had autism.

Truly, a evil mastermind.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 09:33:43


Post by: reds8n


We can drop the off topic posts abut what did or didn't happen on a different site.

Further such posts will be treated as spam.




12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 15:17:36


Post by: Inquisitor Ehrenstein


If someone is bullying you, offer to make them a website. If they thank you, tell them that you'll add every racist/sexist/homophobic/ableist thing they ever said, and ask them if they plan to get into college or job that does background checks. If they threaten you, point out that you're the only person who would be able to remove anything from the website.

You can register .tk domain names for free at my.dot.tk.

You can also create permanent free websites at sites.google.com.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 15:33:41


Post by: Ahtman


 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
tell them that you'll add every racist/sexist/homophobic/ableist thing they ever said, and ask them if they plan to get into college or job that does background checks.


And then they can sue for tortuous interference and libel where you can have fun trying to prove everything said was actually said and not you being bitter. I'm sure that would do wonders for your own college application. I think we can do better than 'become what you hate'.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 15:35:26


Post by: djones520


 Ahtman wrote:
 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
tell them that you'll add every racist/sexist/homophobic/ableist thing they ever said, and ask them if they plan to get into college or job that does background checks.


And then they can sue for tortuous interference and libel where you can have fun trying to prove everything said was actually said and not you being bitter. I'm sure that would do wonders for your own college application. I think we can do better than 'become what you hate'.


Well said.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 15:44:59


Post by: Mr. Burning


 Ahtman wrote:
 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
tell them that you'll add every racist/sexist/homophobic/ableist thing they ever said, and ask them if they plan to get into college or job that does background checks.


And then they can sue for tortuous interference and libel where you can have fun trying to prove everything said was actually said and not you being bitter. I'm sure that would do wonders for your own college application. I think we can do better than 'become what you hate'.


The laws of the land giving a helping hand to victim blaming...

As pointed out though. It's not that easy to stop a bully.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 15:57:02


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


 Ahtman wrote:
 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
tell them that you'll add every racist/sexist/homophobic/ableist thing they ever said, and ask them if they plan to get into college or job that does background checks.


And then they can sue for tortuous interference and libel where you can have fun trying to prove everything said was actually said and not you being bitter. I'm sure that would do wonders for your own college application. I think we can do better than 'become what you hate'.


Unless of course, you have audio recordings of this going on, eye witness sworn statements/afidavits, etc.


But yeah.. to go through all that, its better to not do that, as Ahtman points out.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 15:58:53


Post by: d-usa


 reds8n wrote:
We can drop the off topic posts abut what did or didn't happen on a different site.

Further such posts will be treated as spam.




Am I the only one that can read red text?



12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 16:02:34


Post by: Imposter101


 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
If someone is bullying you, offer to make them a website. If they thank you, tell them that you'll add every racist/sexist/homophobic/ableist thing they ever said, and ask them if they plan to get into college or job that does background checks. If they threaten you, point out that you're the only person who would be able to remove anything from the website.

You can register .tk domain names for free at my.dot.tk.

You can also create permanent free websites at sites.google.com.


Inquisitor, if you have a problem with trolls, instead of pointing, lying, crying, exaggerating and berating, while you list the bad and mean things they've done on some sad revenge website, or trying to get Dakka as your personal army, or be increasingly spiteful and aggressive.....

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.


Doing so will pretty much led to further trolling. Also, on a further note, more topic orientated note.


Most of the time, cyber bullying will not just end if one turns away from the computer. Most of the time, it's started within an environment such as a school, were it's simply go on until someone steps in, or something like this occurs.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 16:20:40


Post by: Inquisitor Ehrenstein


 Mr. Burning wrote:
 Ahtman wrote:
 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
tell them that you'll add every racist/sexist/homophobic/ableist thing they ever said, and ask them if they plan to get into college or job that does background checks.


And then they can sue for tortuous interference and libel where you can have fun trying to prove everything said was actually said and not you being bitter. I'm sure that would do wonders for your own college application. I think we can do better than 'become what you hate'.


The laws of the land giving a helping hand to victim blaming...

As pointed out though. It's not that easy to stop a bully.


Good point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ahtman wrote:
 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
tell them that you'll add every racist/sexist/homophobic/ableist thing they ever said, and ask them if they plan to get into college or job that does background checks.


And then they can sue for tortuous interference and libel where you can have fun trying to prove everything said was actually said and not you being bitter. I'm sure that would do wonders for your own college application. I think we can do better than 'become what you hate'.


Suing over the truth is a very bad idea. It's also a civil offense, not criminal, which means that the bully would have to spend his own money hiring a lawyer for anything to happen.

Plus you probably wouldn't have any money at this age any way, so if he sues you, it's his loss.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 16:49:42


Post by: Ahtman


 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
Suing over the truth is a very bad idea. It's also a civil offense, not criminal, which means that the bully would have to spend his own money hiring a lawyer for anything to happen.

Plus you probably wouldn't have any money at this age any way, so if he sues you, it's his loss.


No, the parents would probably sue your parents, and you would have to prove that it was the truth, which would be very difficult. Of course it is a civil offense, unless they decide to add blackmail (Do what I say or I will ruin your reputation, chances of getting into college). They might feel like spending the money because the parents rarely see their child as the bully, or they may get a contingency lawyer, or even already be a lawyer themselves. Making a public website disparaging someone is an incredibly bad idea, especially for teens. To much of your idea seems based on revenge fantasy and not based on the vagaries and goofiness of reality. And, once again, being the cyber bully isn't really a good response to cyber bullying.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 16:59:16


Post by: Inquisitor Ehrenstein


 Ahtman wrote:
 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
Suing over the truth is a very bad idea. It's also a civil offense, not criminal, which means that the bully would have to spend his own money hiring a lawyer for anything to happen.

Plus you probably wouldn't have any money at this age any way, so if he sues you, it's his loss.


No, the parents would probably sue your parents, and you would have to prove that it was the truth, which would be very difficult. Of course it is a civil offense, unless they decide to add blackmail (Do what I say or I will ruin your reputation, chances of getting into college). They might feel like spending the money because the parents rarely see their child as the bully, or they may get a contingency lawyer, or even already be a lawyer themselves. Making a public website disparaging someone is an incredibly bad idea, especially for teens. To much of your idea seems based on revenge fantasy and not based on the vagaries and goofiness of reality. And, once again, being the cyber bully isn't really a good response to cyber bullying.


Then don't give them any warning and there's no risk of blackmail. Anyway, suing for libel over the truth is a very bad idea as at least something will be provable and will lead people to believe that there is far more to the story. Once one part of the bullying is established as true in court, you can publish it on as many websites as you want. Plus if you're over 18, you probably won't have any money so any guilty verdict would still be a loss for the plaintiff.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 17:09:28


Post by: Sidstyler


 Jihadin wrote:
My little guy pounded Chucklehead two times. Suspended both times.


That's one of my biggest problems in regards to bullying: people are encouraged to "stand up for themselves" as children, but when they do they almost always get punished just as badly as the bully does, if not worse.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 17:51:06


Post by: Ahtman


 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
 Ahtman wrote:
 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
Suing over the truth is a very bad idea. It's also a civil offense, not criminal, which means that the bully would have to spend his own money hiring a lawyer for anything to happen.

Plus you probably wouldn't have any money at this age any way, so if he sues you, it's his loss.


No, the parents would probably sue your parents, and you would have to prove that it was the truth, which would be very difficult. Of course it is a civil offense, unless they decide to add blackmail (Do what I say or I will ruin your reputation, chances of getting into college). They might feel like spending the money because the parents rarely see their child as the bully, or they may get a contingency lawyer, or even already be a lawyer themselves. Making a public website disparaging someone is an incredibly bad idea, especially for teens. To much of your idea seems based on revenge fantasy and not based on the vagaries and goofiness of reality. And, once again, being the cyber bully isn't really a good response to cyber bullying.


Then don't give them any warning and there's no risk of blackmail. Anyway, suing for libel over the truth is a very bad idea as at least something will be provable and will lead people to believe that there is far more to the story. Once one part of the bullying is established as true in court, you can publish it on as many websites as you want. Plus if you're over 18, you probably won't have any money so any guilty verdict would still be a loss for the plaintiff.


Again, this seems like an idealized version of how you would like to think a case would go, and doesn't factor in human pettiness or the nature of the legal system and its tenuous relationship to justice.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 17:51:36


Post by: Jihadin


I accept his suspension. What is the school going to do? Have a sit down with them? Next thing they're after him because he's a "snitch". As long as he does not go beyond the what's required to thrash him then I am alright with it. My little guy knows how far to take it. As expected like my experience as a kid. They're buddies after a year.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 18:23:31


Post by: Inquisitor Ehrenstein


 Ahtman wrote:
 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
 Ahtman wrote:
 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
Suing over the truth is a very bad idea. It's also a civil offense, not criminal, which means that the bully would have to spend his own money hiring a lawyer for anything to happen.

Plus you probably wouldn't have any money at this age any way, so if he sues you, it's his loss.


No, the parents would probably sue your parents, and you would have to prove that it was the truth, which would be very difficult. Of course it is a civil offense, unless they decide to add blackmail (Do what I say or I will ruin your reputation, chances of getting into college). They might feel like spending the money because the parents rarely see their child as the bully, or they may get a contingency lawyer, or even already be a lawyer themselves. Making a public website disparaging someone is an incredibly bad idea, especially for teens. To much of your idea seems based on revenge fantasy and not based on the vagaries and goofiness of reality. And, once again, being the cyber bully isn't really a good response to cyber bullying.


Then don't give them any warning and there's no risk of blackmail. Anyway, suing for libel over the truth is a very bad idea as at least something will be provable and will lead people to believe that there is far more to the story. Once one part of the bullying is established as true in court, you can publish it on as many websites as you want. Plus if you're over 18, you probably won't have any money so any guilty verdict would still be a loss for the plaintiff.


Again, this seems like an idealized version of how you would like to think a case would go, and doesn't factor in human pettiness or the nature of the legal system and its tenuous relationship to justice.


I've seen examples of libel cases, and suing over the truth is a very bad idea.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 18:36:53


Post by: Ahtman


 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
I've seen examples of libel cases, and suing over the truth is a very bad idea.


You seem hung up on libel only, and missing the forest for the trees. You also keep saying 'suing over the truth' like in any given scenario a person would have absolute proof of truth on a given situation, which isn't always, if not oftentimes, likely. Having seen a few cases isn't indicative of anything beyond a few cases. We can find a few cases that go the other way as well.

If you go back to your original statement you said to threaten the other person with making a website defaming their character and trying to torpedo their college applications. It is also not a good idea to a) threaten people and b) create websites devoted to defaming people, it is even more ludicrous when does as some defense of bullying.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 18:41:42


Post by: Imposter101


 Ahtman wrote:
 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
I've seen examples of libel cases, and suing over the truth is a very bad idea.


You seem hung up on libel only, and missing the forest for the trees. You also keep saying 'suing over the truth' like in any given scenario a person would have absolute proof of truth on a given situation, which isn't always, if not oftentimes, likely. Having seen a few cases isn't indicative of anything beyond a few cases. We can find a few cases that go the other way as well.

If you go back to your original statement you said to threaten the other person with making a website defaming their character and trying to torpedo their college applications. It is also not a good idea to a) threaten people and b) create websites devoted to defaming people, it is even more ludicrous when does as some defense of bullying.


We should also factor in that almost all of the Inquisitors cases have been simple trolling, which he simply is unable to not react to in a way that only spurs the trolls further on. It's getting to the CWC stage now where any further action against such people is always made in the worst and easiest to feed off possible way. Not replying, and simply moving on would be simple.


http://bigotry.sashaweb.net/Bloodreaper

Oh god this is hilarious. Seriously, this is the most pathetic thing I've ever seen. We've just reached CWC levels.


(Deletion log); 10:01 . . Inquisitor Ehrenstein (Talk | contribs) restored page Bloodreaper ‎(5 revisions restored: Two faced lying projecting closet Nazi prick)


lel.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 19:36:37


Post by: rubiksnoob


This one time there were accidentally 30 million threads about cyber bullying. . .


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 19:53:50


Post by: MrDwhitey


Hey imposter101, that just leads to a deleted page.

This might help:



12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 19:59:51


Post by: d-usa


It's almost as if you can't just put stuff on the Internet and then just pretend it never existed...


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 20:10:20


Post by: purplefood


Can I briefly point out that footnote?


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 20:13:40


Post by: motyak


Can we obey the red writing and drop this tangent?


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 20:17:54


Post by: Inquisitor Ehrenstein


 motyak wrote:
Can we obey the red writing and drop this tangent?


Yes. I was discussing the effectiveness of a counter bullying strategy with Ahtman and a sockpuppet of Bloodreaper Imposter101 derailed it with personal attacks.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 20:19:33


Post by: Imposter101


 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
 motyak wrote:
Can we obey the red writing and drop this tangent?


Yes. I was discussing the effectiveness of a counter bullying strategy with Ahtman and a sockpuppet of Bloodreaper Imposter101 derailed it with personal attacks.


I posted an example of your counter bullying stratagem.

I'm also going to stop posting now, because it seems that this is over, and continuation is pointless.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 20:24:13


Post by: d-usa


 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
 motyak wrote:
Can we obey the red writing and drop this tangent?


Yes. I was discussing the effectiveness of a counter bullying strategy with Ahtman and a sockpuppet of Bloodreaper Imposter101 derailed it with personal attacks.


1) You got a red text warning to drop it.
2) You didn't drop it.
3) You talked about "just making a wiki page full of personal attacks, that will teach a bully"
4) Somebody posted a link of a wiki-page that shows personal attacks against a member you always rant about.
5) Suddenly that wiki-page is deleted.
6) The log on that page shows that every edit was done by you.
7) You follow up with more personal attacks claiming sockpuppets instead of reporting the account to see if it really is a sockpuppet.

It's quite sad actually...


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 20:54:01


Post by: Mr. Burning


Perfect examples of how not to deal with bullies.

Also. The bigotry page the grand inquisitor has 'links' to has incorrect information: I'll shoot him a PM.

Maybe get some facts right and your stance may have better foundations

Just saying.

My word, my grammar is really atrocious.



12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/15 21:05:41


Post by: Alpharius


General in thread warnings ignored, so specific warnings given out.

Some suspensions too.

Stay on topic, and perhaps more importantly, follow Rule #1 at all times.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/16 10:17:04


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


After watching some national news last night (which is extremely rare, was waiting on football to come on), I am very interested in the new Florida law that may hold the bullies responsible. Im not very familiar with it, but I wonder if it's possible to get up to Manslaughter or even 3rd degree?


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/16 10:44:39


Post by: Soladrin


 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
After watching some national news last night (which is extremely rare, was waiting on football to come on), I am very interested in the new Florida law that may hold the bullies responsible. Im not very familiar with it, but I wonder if it's possible to get up to Manslaughter or even 3rd degree?


Yes! Jail time! That will certainly steer bullies on the right path!


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/16 13:45:25


Post by: d-usa


 Soladrin wrote:
 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
After watching some national news last night (which is extremely rare, was waiting on football to come on), I am very interested in the new Florida law that may hold the bullies responsible. Im not very familiar with it, but I wonder if it's possible to get up to Manslaughter or even 3rd degree?


Yes! Jail time! That will certainly steer bullies on the right path!


They will get bullied in the two-hole while they are there!


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/16 13:46:05


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


 Soladrin wrote:
 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
After watching some national news last night (which is extremely rare, was waiting on football to come on), I am very interested in the new Florida law that may hold the bullies responsible. Im not very familiar with it, but I wonder if it's possible to get up to Manslaughter or even 3rd degree?


Yes! Jail time! That will certainly steer bullies on the right path!



Bullies whose actions ultimately lead to a loss of life are no longer bullies. There's an argument to be made that if you so ruthlessly make fun of another human being that they can no longer bear it, and die because of it, then you are no longer a bully, but rather a murderer, or at least an accessory to it.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/16 13:54:17


Post by: Mr. Burning


 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
 Soladrin wrote:
 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
After watching some national news last night (which is extremely rare, was waiting on football to come on), I am very interested in the new Florida law that may hold the bullies responsible. Im not very familiar with it, but I wonder if it's possible to get up to Manslaughter or even 3rd degree?


Yes! Jail time! That will certainly steer bullies on the right path!



Bullies whose actions ultimately lead to a loss of life are no longer bullies. There's an argument to be made that if you so ruthlessly make fun of another human being that they can no longer bear it, and die because of it, then you are no longer a bully, but rather a murderer, or at least an accessory to it.


I could live with a law like this. But since the bullied almost always do not tell anyone their situation and the fact that bullying is one of those situations where its seen as best not to interfere/get involved/take interest I can't say many successful prosecutions - Cyber bullies who leave a footprint aside.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/16 13:56:37


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


 Mr. Burning wrote:

I could live with a law like this. But since the bullied almost always do not tell anyone their situation and the fact that bullying is one of those situations where its seen as best not to interfere/get involved/take interest I can't say many successful prosecutions - Cyber bullies who leave a footprint aside.


With the direction that society is taking, I honestly think that, any more, there is always going to be Real Life bullying coupled with Cyber Bullying. I do think it sad that we almost never hear anything about this sort of behavior, until after someone kills themselves because they were on the receiving end of it.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/17 18:17:03


Post by: feeder


That is a moving story. What a brother.

140 lbs in third grade, though? That can't be healthy.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/17 20:19:46


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


feeder wrote:
That is a moving story. What a brother.

140 lbs in third grade, though? That can't be healthy.



Definitely not... But they point out that she's an "emotional eater" she's in the 3rd fething grade.. be a PARENT!!!!


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/17 20:28:09


Post by: Asherian Command


*sigh*
I hate kids. No matter what generation bullying will persist. Its a sad unfortunate thing. Wish we could stop things like this.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/18 01:20:18


Post by: cincydooley


 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
feeder wrote:
That is a moving story. What a brother.

140 lbs in third grade, though? That can't be healthy.



Definitely not... But they point out that she's an "emotional eater" she's in the 3rd fething grade.. be a PARENT!!!!


No no no. You can't hold parents accountable. That's not how the US works anymore.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/18 03:50:01


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


 cincydooley wrote:

No no no. You can't hold parents accountable. That's not how the US works anymore.



Clearly not... But for those of us who just naturally are accountable to/for our children, this gak pisses me right off. It's parenting 101 to ensure that your children eat a proper diet, to include proper portion sizes...ohh, and to make sure they get off their lazy bums, go outside and play with sticks or something (ohh wait, its the modern parent we're talking about so we cant let them play with sticks, because theyll put an eye out, better to give them nerf guns and those pool 'spaghetti noodles')


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/18 04:17:29


Post by: motyak


 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
 cincydooley wrote:

No no no. You can't hold parents accountable. That's not how the US works anymore.



Clearly not... But for those of us who just naturally are accountable to/for our children, this gak pisses me right off. It's parenting 101 to ensure that your children eat a proper diet, to include proper portion sizes...ohh, and to make sure they get off their lazy bums, go outside and play with sticks or something (ohh wait, its the modern parent we're talking about so we cant let them play with sticks, because theyll put an eye out, better to give them nerf guns and those pool 'spaghetti noodles')


I just don't get those kind of comments. I grew up in the 90s so I figure my parents were part of that 'super careful' set (if you ever met my mum you'd agree), but we still got to play swords just fine. Best use for wickets (swords), cricket pads (buckler/arm shields) and my baby bath tub (gigantic shield). Man I miss swords. Same with the kids we were playing with, while their parents would also be classed as pretty protective and what not, they still allowed them to play with the rest of us. I just don't see, at least in my experience/area, anyone actually forcing their kids into bubblewrap and into using pool noodles instead of sticks, for example.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/18 04:51:47


Post by: cincydooley


There's a big diff in the States for some reason, motyak. It's actually pretty frustrating. And amazing how much different things are from 20ish years ago.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/18 05:24:55


Post by: Cheesecat


 motyak wrote:
 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
 cincydooley wrote:

No no no. You can't hold parents accountable. That's not how the US works anymore.



Clearly not... But for those of us who just naturally are accountable to/for our children, this gak pisses me right off. It's parenting 101 to ensure that your children eat a proper diet, to include proper portion sizes...ohh, and to make sure they get off their lazy bums, go outside and play with sticks or something (ohh wait, its the modern parent we're talking about so we cant let them play with sticks, because theyll put an eye out, better to give them nerf guns and those pool 'spaghetti noodles')


I just don't get those kind of comments. I grew up in the 90s so I figure my parents were part of that 'super careful' set (if you ever met my mum you'd agree), but we still got to play swords just fine. Best use for wickets (swords), cricket pads (buckler/arm shields) and my baby bath tub (gigantic shield). Man I miss swords. Same with the kids we were playing with, while their parents would also be classed as pretty protective and what not, they still allowed them to play with the rest of us. I just don't see, at least in my experience/area, anyone actually forcing their kids into bubblewrap and into using pool noodles instead of sticks, for example.


Yeah, that's been my experience as well I did some dangerous gak as a 90's kid.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/18 06:14:52


Post by: rubiksnoob


 Cheesecat wrote:
 motyak wrote:
 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
 cincydooley wrote:

No no no. You can't hold parents accountable. That's not how the US works anymore.



Clearly not... But for those of us who just naturally are accountable to/for our children, this gak pisses me right off. It's parenting 101 to ensure that your children eat a proper diet, to include proper portion sizes...ohh, and to make sure they get off their lazy bums, go outside and play with sticks or something (ohh wait, its the modern parent we're talking about so we cant let them play with sticks, because theyll put an eye out, better to give them nerf guns and those pool 'spaghetti noodles')


I just don't get those kind of comments. I grew up in the 90s so I figure my parents were part of that 'super careful' set (if you ever met my mum you'd agree), but we still got to play swords just fine. Best use for wickets (swords), cricket pads (buckler/arm shields) and my baby bath tub (gigantic shield). Man I miss swords. Same with the kids we were playing with, while their parents would also be classed as pretty protective and what not, they still allowed them to play with the rest of us. I just don't see, at least in my experience/area, anyone actually forcing their kids into bubblewrap and into using pool noodles instead of sticks, for example.


Yeah, that's been my experience as well I did some dangerous gak as a 90's kid.


One of my buddies got his nipple torn off in an accident resulting from trying to jump a ramp in a radio flyer wagon tied behind a bicycle. He slid about three feet on the pavement and when he got up the front of his shirt was gone and so was the nip!


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/18 06:28:42


Post by: motyak


I had the great idea as a child to scooter down a great big hill near my house (on the road). As I reached maximum speed I decided I wanted to break, tried it, burnt my foot because the wheel was going too fast. I was heading towards the wall at the end of the street. "Feth it" I think (although at that age I don't think I knew that word), "I am not running into that wall". I promptly jump off, crashing and burning down the last of the hill and all along the bitumen. I get up, and I've scraped my knee and elbow.

I was unkillable as a child.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/18 06:57:59


Post by: Bromsy


 motyak wrote:
 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
 cincydooley wrote:

No no no. You can't hold parents accountable. That's not how the US works anymore.



Clearly not... But for those of us who just naturally are accountable to/for our children, this gak pisses me right off. It's parenting 101 to ensure that your children eat a proper diet, to include proper portion sizes...ohh, and to make sure they get off their lazy bums, go outside and play with sticks or something (ohh wait, its the modern parent we're talking about so we cant let them play with sticks, because theyll put an eye out, better to give them nerf guns and those pool 'spaghetti noodles')


I just don't get those kind of comments. I grew up in the 90s so I figure my parents were part of that 'super careful' set (if you ever met my mum you'd agree), but we still got to play swords just fine. Best use for wickets (swords), cricket pads (buckler/arm shields) and my baby bath tub (gigantic shield). Man I miss swords. Same with the kids we were playing with, while their parents would also be classed as pretty protective and what not, they still allowed them to play with the rest of us. I just don't see, at least in my experience/area, anyone actually forcing their kids into bubblewrap and into using pool noodles instead of sticks, for example.


Yeah, when I was a kid my dad made my brother and me wooden swords - not crap toy ones, but stuff like -

and shields with heraldic devices and everything. We beat the piss out of each other. Hell, one year all we wanted for christmas was blowguns, and we got em. I'm shocked that I survived my childhood.



12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/18 11:49:30


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


 Bromsy wrote:


and shields with heraldic devices and everything. We beat the piss out of each other. Hell, one year all we wanted for christmas was blowguns, and we got em. I'm shocked that I survived my childhood.




Bromsy, were your parents the inspiration for the characters at the end of Step Brothers??


But yeah, to the other posters:

I was born in the mid-80s, so I am just old enough to vaguely remember the Atlanta Olympic games. Back then, as it was early enough in the 90s, we'd play a neighborhood game of football, on the street. the usual timeout for cars, etc. the crazy play calling all that. We'd play with sticks to have our sword fights, and if you found a particularly good stick, you'd hide it somewhere in your yard, for future use. At one house, there was a huge wild blackberry biarpatch that we'd stomp our way carefully through, and built forts and hiding places within. As my little brother came up, almost all of that sort of thing became taboo and forbidden (not by my parents), most parents were too worried about getting sued or something, if their precious little runny nosed git got a paper cut. It's fething ridiculous.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/18 15:52:55


Post by: cincydooley


No kidding, right?

Consequently, my wife has told me that the amount of kids that reported having multiple allergies has shot up in the 8 years she's been teaching. I'm trying to think about it, but I literally don't think I knew anyone with a food allergy when I was growing up. Now the primary question isn't "if" the kids have food allergies, but "what" are they.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/18 16:03:46


Post by: daedalus


My college roommate and brother are both allergic to peanuts. Roommate was born in the early 80s; my brother is a 90s kid.

They both broke out in rashes when they ate peanuts. Roommate would actually have difficulty breathing, but my brother doesn't have it that severe. They had no noticeable ill effects from eating things with trace amounts of peanut oil or what have you in it.

I do not know what to make of this brave new world that will have to cater to these people who think they can't safely exist in the same room as certain foods.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/18 16:14:32


Post by: cincydooley


 daedalus wrote:
My college roommate and brother are both allergic to peanuts. Roommate was born in the early 80s; my brother is a 90s kid.

They both broke out in rashes when they ate peanuts. Roommate would actually have difficulty breathing, but my brother doesn't have it that severe. They had no noticeable ill effects from eating things with trace amounts of peanut oil or what have you in it.

I do not know what to make of this brave new world that will have to cater to these people who think they can't safely exist in the same room as certain foods.


That's not entirely what I meant. I wholly acknowledge that these allergies do exist; I think, much like ADD, that they seem to be much more prevalent with kids now than kids born in the 80s and before.

I mean, in school in the late 80s, early 90s, wasn't there always like, that one kid that had the allergies, and he was usually a little bit sickly, had the helicopter mother, etc... Now, it seems like 1/3 kids have some sort of "serious" food allergy and helicopter mothers are everywhere....


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/18 16:25:52


Post by: Alfndrate


Well unlike other branches of the armed forces, the budgets for the Matres Cornu Retorta, have been increased during these tight times.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/18 17:53:43


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Cincy, I honestly think that the number of allergies hasn't actually increased, but awareness of them has. When I was younger, I ate just about everything, and if I didn't feel well, well who knew why? Now I know I am lactose intolerant, but that didn't stop me from eating a prodigious amount of ice cream. I also used to blow my nose all the time, but never stopped to think I might be allergic to the carpet in my school (but only in certain buildings).

My wife's entire family has allergies of one form or another. However, most of them only became a big problem once they reached their 30's and stopped being so resilient.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/18 17:56:08


Post by: Frazzled


 cincydooley wrote:
No kidding, right?

Consequently, my wife has told me that the amount of kids that reported having multiple allergies has shot up in the 8 years she's been teaching. I'm trying to think about it, but I literally don't think I knew anyone with a food allergy when I was growing up. Now the primary question isn't "if" the kids have food allergies, but "what" are they.


This is what happens when Cheetahs aren't around.


12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/18 18:02:17


Post by: daedalus


 Frazzled wrote:
 cincydooley wrote:
No kidding, right?

Consequently, my wife has told me that the amount of kids that reported having multiple allergies has shot up in the 8 years she's been teaching. I'm trying to think about it, but I literally don't think I knew anyone with a food allergy when I was growing up. Now the primary question isn't "if" the kids have food allergies, but "what" are they.


This is what happens when Cheetahs aren't around.


Ooh, I know this one!




12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide @ 2013/09/19 00:48:51


Post by: cincydooley


Oh. Don't get me started on that. I'm one of the biggest proponents of allowing a bit more Darwinism back in our lives that you'll ever meet.