Article

Former pro football player Brian Holloway's Labor Day weekend was ruined after he discovered that hundreds of teens had broken into his upstate NY home for a massive party which caused thousands of dollars of damage. Holloway, a former Patriots and Raiders offensive lineman, ended up re-posting photographs of many of the teens on a site called HelpMeSave300.com in an attempt to "teach our kids to be accountable." He expected to get apologies from parents and the teens—but he told us that to his shock, he's now been threatened with lawsuits from many of the parents: "I don't really understand how they can be upset with me for things their children did."

"I don't really understand it," he told us over the phone today. "They say 'you ruined our kids' life.' If my child was breaking into your home and you posted them on the website, posted the material that THEY posted, I would come there and thank you, and I would have my child be an indentured servant until everything was repaired and cleaned up."

Holloway was in Tampa three weeks ago about to launch his new website Herleague.net, a social media platform for women who love football, when his son spotted Twitter updates about the party and alerted him. "I went right from shock, blew right past furious, and was like, 'Wait a minute, they are so way out there,'" Holloway said. As he watched more and more photos from the party show up on Twitter and Facebook, he was appalled: "This isn't just alcohol. This is alcohol and meth and crack and heroin. It didn't even make sense."

He estimates there is $20-40K in damage, including smashed windows and glass doors, an "enormous amount" of graffiti, urine-soaked carpets, holes in the ceilings, and a stolen eagle statue (which has since been returned). On his website (which he referred to as a "warning disclosure"), he asked the teens to come to a picnic for veterans at the home and help clean it up. "These 300 lives are in real jeopardy," he said. "Why don't you help clean it up, let's turn it into something good. Because I don't want this place to be remembered by the scar of this ridiculous situation."

He said that so far, only one teen and parent have come forward to help him clean up the damages. He's already turned over hundreds of the pictures to the local sheriff: "We have names of probably 220 kids so far, we'll have 300 by this weekend." He added that he's not scared of the threats he's received so far: "They have so much documented evidence, the only term I can use to describe what is going to happen to these teens is 'shock-and-awe.'"

"And how do you intimidate me?" he asked. "I've lined up against Lawrence Taylor!"

Only 1 out 300 of the entire group came forward to help out and face what they had done, how sad is that? Probably not as sad as threatening to sue the guy who's house your kid just wrecked, but but still pretty sad.

This article showcases just about every single thing wrong with my generation.

It is sad that this happened. And even more the delusional parents

What kind of parents would hear about their children taking part in that and the SUE THE HOMEOWNER!?

 Ahtman wrote:
Article
"I don't really understand it," he told us over the phone today. "They say 'you ruined our kids' life.' If my child was breaking into your home and you posted them on the website, posted the material that THEY posted, I would come there and thank you, and I would have my child be an indentured servant until everything was repaired and cleaned up."

What? They trash his house, and he is the the that ruined their lives? I honestly am unable to understand how some people can think things like this...

Only 1 out 300 of the entire group came forward to help out and face what they had done, how sad is that? Probably not as sad as threatening to sue the guy who's house your kid just wrecked, but but still pretty sad.

It is terrible. The others should be there to, and if they won't do so voluntarily, the kids' parents should be making them resolve this.

_e

I can't believe these parties actually exist lol. Good job to the kid that came out and helped clean up, but I bet more will end up coming forward. The example in the article was just one parent's reaction, I bet most parents have no idea this even happened - when they are contacted there will be some beatings going down.

Child services is going to have to unplug their phones that week .... hopefully....

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
What kind of parents would hear about their children taking part in that and the SUE THE HOMEOWNER!?

one that wants to settle for a measily hundred thousand dollars or so

 Grundz wrote:

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
What kind of parents would hear about their children taking part in that and the SUE THE HOMEOWNER!?

one that wants to settle for a measily hundred thousand dollars or so

Yeah! That's little Timmy's college fund right there.

Grundz you have to have something to settle first. It's very hard to win a lawsuit when you're suing for an individual in the middle of committing a crime.

He should sue them first.

All of these parents threatening to sue should have been sterilized before they had kids. It's still no too late to sterilize the teens though.


That should get an angry rant from Dakka against me.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
All of these parents threatening to sue should have been sterilized before they had kids. It's still no too late to sterilize the teens though.


That should get an angry rant from Dakka against me.

Nah, I'm against Eugenics, but not sterilization of dumbasses.

This comic sums up this attitude nicely:

Kids 10 years younger than me are pulling this gak and I still can't find a job, WTF.

"urine-soaked carpets"
Where these kids raised by wolves or something WTF?

cincydooley wrote:This comic sums up this attitude nicely:

Pretty much.

Desubot wrote:"urine-soaked carpets"
Where these kids raised by wolves or something WTF?

Mostly, raised by parents who believe their spawn is somehow more sacred and important than all the other people on the planet. Things must be just so for their spawn, and we can't have anything that might sully their innocent little angel. The phrase "Won't someone think of the children?" has a strength in this generation of parents that borders on psychosis.

Don't get me wrong, parents are supposed to think their kid is amazing and special. Otherwise children wouldn't survive "the terrible twos". But today's feel-good society has done its damnedest to make sure that children are coddled and protected from life.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Grundz you have to have something to settle first. It's very hard to win a lawsuit when you're suing for an individual in the middle of committing a crime.

I must live in some other dimension where you aren't allowed to reveal the identity of adolescent offenders

All he did was repost pictures that they themselves put up on the internet. It's not like posted contact information.

 Grundz wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Grundz you have to have something to settle first. It's very hard to win a lawsuit when you're suing for an individual in the middle of committing a crime.

I must live in some other dimension where you aren't allowed to reveal the identity of adolescent offenders

He can do what every he want with his pictures. He isn't a law enforcement officer or the news.

P.S. Hope there is video, I love to see it on Ridiculousness.

 streamdragon wrote:
All he did was repost pictures that they themselves put up on the internet. It's not like posted contact information.

And that is the part that I find hilarious. These kids took the pictures themselves and posted them online of them committing trespass, and potential criminal damage. Now their parents are up in arms that their precious darlings are getting in trouble? If the parents put as much effort into raising their kids as they are putting into trying to get off the hook then their kids would not be in trouble.

If I had been caught doing something like that I'd have been marched back to apologise and clean up the mess. If I was really lucky I'd still be here to post about it The fact that only one kid and parent from the group of 300 had the decency to come and clean up the mess is a sorry state of affairs.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
All he did was repost pictures that they themselves put up on the internet. It's not like posted contact information.

And that is the part that I find hilarious. These kids took the pictures themselves and posted them online of them committing trespass, and potential criminal damage. Now their parents are up in arms that their precious darlings are getting in trouble? If the parents put as much effort into raising their kids as they are putting into trying to get off the hook then their kids would not be in trouble.

If I had been caught doing something like that I'd have been marched back to apologise and clean up the mess. If I was really lucky I'd still be here to post about it The fact that only one kid and parent from the group of 300 had the decency to come and clean up the mess is a sorry state of affairs.

Not just tresspass and criminal damage, but hard drugs including Meth!

If I was a parent and someone handed me a picture of my kid doing Meth...

 streamdragon wrote:
If I was a parent and someone handed me a picture of my kid doing Meth...

I'd be calling the cops on them before I killed the kid myself

 Grundz wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Grundz you have to have something to settle first. It's very hard to win a lawsuit when you're suing for an individual in the middle of committing a crime.

I must live in some other dimension where you aren't allowed to reveal the identity of adolescent offenders

I didn't read anything about their ages.

Also, THEY posted this information. It's publicly available on their twitter pages. All he did was snap a picture of them hanging by their own ropes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I did stupid, questionably legal stuff when I was a youngin, but something of this magnitude would have completely been beyond me.

A group B&E and vandilism charge would be nice. Is that just a fine or is that some time in the government hotels?

I think the worst thing I did was kick a shopping cart into a canal. The audacity of this is amazing.

 streamdragon wrote:
All he did was repost pictures that they themselves put up on the internet. It's not like posted contact information.

Dont get me wrong, these kids are idiots and should be taken to the cleaners, all I was stating was that there was a thin enough face that it might actually go to court, which is what the parents would be shooting for, so he would take the cheaper settlement option.

 Grundz wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
All he did was repost pictures that they themselves put up on the internet. It's not like posted contact information.

Dont get me wrong, these kids are idiots and should be taken to the cleaners, all I was stating was that there was a thin enough face that it might actually go to court, which is what the parents would be shooting for, so he would take the cheaper settlement option.

Why? I mean, he could easily take them all to the cleaners...I bet if he showed a lawyer what was done to his place, told him how many families were attempting to sue him, the lawyer would probably charge a cheap, flat rate. Then on the other side of that, I'm sure that the judges would probably be be borderline harsh on both the teens and parents of those things.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
the lawyer would probably charge a cheap, flat rate.

Wow
You dont know any lawyers do you

 Grundz wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
the lawyer would probably charge a cheap, flat rate.

Wow
You dont know any lawyers do you

A couple... but both are quite literally the most Pro-mIlitary guys I know, so that is going to severely skew their "going rates" in regards to any services that I may need them for.

 Grundz wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
the lawyer would probably charge a cheap, flat rate.

Wow
You dont know any lawyers do you

I think the point, Grundz, is that a lawyer seeing this case sees an easy win, and with so many people becoming involved, a cheap rate on that many actions will garner him far more money than a single case that could become tricky. A lawyer won't want a different lawyer to get the case, as it's like printing your own money, so he's going to make himself as marketable as possible. Economics 101.

 streamdragon wrote:
All he did was repost pictures that they themselves put up on the internet. It's not like posted contact information.

And thus the true core of the issue arises. Clearly these idiots parents are fierce advocates of copyright protection laws and are merely trying to protect their childrens' property...

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
If I was a parent and someone handed me a picture of my kid doing Meth...

I'd be calling the cops on them before I killed the kid myself

Yeah I wouldn't be bothering with the cops. I dunno if I'd kill him or just issue the Scar edict.

Just bear in mind that, if you were born after 1980 or so, this is exactly how you're going to raise your kids, too.

 Seaward wrote:
Just bear in mind that, if you were born after 1980 or so, this is exactly how you're going to raise your kids, too.

Speak for yourself.

Every generation is the one that will kill society...

Overall I'm not as disappointed this time around as I was expecting to be. So far we haven't gone back to using shoes as metaphors for our penises, thus making every male look like a clown.

 djones520 wrote:

 Seaward wrote:
Just bear in mind that, if you were born after 1980 or so, this is exactly how you're going to raise your kids, too.

Speak for yourself.

Yeah, thanks for that insult, Seaward. I was raised properly and intend to raise my kids the same way. And I was born in 1985. If I got bad grades, my dad grounded me, not my teacher. If I made a bad choice in life, I was grounded. Of course, my dad would also ask what I'd do differently the next time, accept my answer, and life would go on. I'd still be grounded, but my punishment might be lessened if I learned the proper lesson. Or does your "or so" comment mean up to 5 years after 1980? If so, that's quite a bit of leeway you're giving yourself.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Yeah, thanks for that insult, Seaward. I was raised properly and intend to raise my kids the same way. And I was born in 1985. If I got bad grades, my dad grounded me, not my teacher. If I made a bad choice in life, I was grounded. Of course, my dad would also ask what I'd do differently the next time, accept my answer, and life would go on. I'd still be grounded, but my punishment might be lessened if I learned the proper lesson. Or does your "or so" comment mean up to 5 years after 1980? If so, that's quite a bit of leeway you're giving yourself.

You're welcome to prove me wrong, of course. It doesn't exclusively have to do with how you personally were raised, either.

 djones520 wrote:

 Seaward wrote:
Just bear in mind that, if you were born after 1980 or so, this is exactly how you're going to raise your kids, too.

Speak for yourself.

Im with Djones here... As a parent of 2 youngins, I do the best with what I got, but know that once they reach school age, things will be exactly how my parents raised me.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Im with Djones here... As a parent of 2 youngins, I do the best with what I got, but know that once they reach school age, things will be exactly how my parents raised me.

Have you considered that you'll be putting your kids at a disadvantage compared to other comparable children?

 Seaward wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Im with Djones here... As a parent of 2 youngins, I do the best with what I got, but know that once they reach school age, things will be exactly how my parents raised me.

Have you considered that you'll be putting your kids at a disadvantage compared to other comparable children?

How is instilling discipline a disadvantage? How is teaching them a version of right and wrong a disadvantage? How is actually diving a crap about my kids' education going to put them at a disadvantage?

 Seaward wrote:
Just bear in mind that, if you were born after 1980 or so, this is exactly how you're going to raise your kids, too.

I know plenty of people that were born after 1980 that are not raising kids like that.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
How is instilling discipline a disadvantage? How is teaching them a version of right and wrong a disadvantage? How is actually diving a crap about my kids' education going to put them at a disadvantage?

Say you've got two equally capable (or troublesome, if you like) children. Child A's parents are doing that instilling discipline thing. Child B's parents are doing the modern parenting, get-my-kid-ahead-at-all-costs thing. You do the math on which one's going to end up with more advantages.

The first one the second will be in jail for being a sociopath

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
The first one the second will be in jail for being a sociopath

this one... Because:

The one with discipline will not be breaking and entering another persons home, in order to have a party
the one with discipline will study at least occasionally, and do well in school
The one with discipline will have good friendships with people that are not based solely on "what can they do for me"
The teachers of the one with discipline will not be verbally attacked by their parents for not getting successful grades, the "modern" parent will.



To me, you can be a "get your kid ahead" parent, without being a modern parent. Unconditional love, discipline, and active participation will make your kid so much better than the alternative. Do I personally care if one of my kids is "only" a plumber or electrician with no actual college degree? NO, I care more that they do what they want to, are successful at it, and are a productive, contributing member of society. Would I like for them to go to college? Sure, but its ultimately up to them. My job is to instill in them the values that if they are going to do something, they are not going to halfass it, that they are going to put forth real effort,etc. They may decide to follow in my footsteps and go into the military, and there's nothing wrong with that.

None of those sorts of things are really all that possible with the "modern parent" as seen by the article in the OP.

 Seaward wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
How is instilling discipline a disadvantage? How is teaching them a version of right and wrong a disadvantage? How is actually diving a crap about my kids' education going to put them at a disadvantage?

Say you've got two equally capable (or troublesome, if you like) children. Child A's parents are doing that instilling discipline thing. Child B's parents are doing the modern parenting, get-my-kid-ahead-at-all-costs thing. You do the math on which one's going to end up with more advantages.

In all fairness, I had kids with parents like that in my school, and most of them amounted to less than gak when put out on their own. Suddenly, everything wasn't being given to them on a silver platter, excuses or coverups for bad behavior included. They grew up thinking it was all going to be alright, no matter what they did, and then reality came as a cold slap in the face.

Relapse wrote:
In all fairness, I had kids with parents like that in my school, and most of them amounted to less than gak when put out on their own. Suddenly, everything wasn't being given to them on a silver platter, excuses or coverups for bad behavior included. They grew up thinking it was all going to be alright, no matter what they did, and then reality came as a cold slap in the face.

I'm not saying they'll necessarily amount to anything, simply that, in the example I gave, they're likely to wind up having more advantages during their school years.

Seaward, your example MIGHT get them a little bit further in high school, which amounts to Jack gak. Get them into the real world, and they're toast. They won't get ahead at all, they'll be screwed.

They'll be on the Internet blaming the economy for why they got fired from Starbucks.

I hate my Generation...

 Seaward wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Yeah, thanks for that insult, Seaward. I was raised properly and intend to raise my kids the same way. And I was born in 1985. If I got bad grades, my dad grounded me, not my teacher. If I made a bad choice in life, I was grounded. Of course, my dad would also ask what I'd do differently the next time, accept my answer, and life would go on. I'd still be grounded, but my punishment might be lessened if I learned the proper lesson. Or does your "or so" comment mean up to 5 years after 1980? If so, that's quite a bit of leeway you're giving yourself.

You're welcome to prove me wrong, of course. It doesn't exclusively have to do with how you personally were raised, either.

Seriously dude? What bug crawled up your ass so hard your going to criticize how we parent our children when you know absolutely nothing about us or how we raise our children? I don't need to prove a damn thing to you, but you certainly just took a few hits in the "why I should give you any respect" category.

 d-usa wrote:
Every generation is the one that will kill society...

Oddly, I think we can lay the blame for this one on the baby-boomers.

Much respect for that one kid who did come forward, anyway. Plenty of people mess up and do stupid things, not enough will square up and accept responsibility for it.

 Ouze wrote:
Much respect for that one kid who did come forward, anyway. Plenty of people mess up and do stupid things, not enough will square up and accept responsibility for it.

This

If only that kid could peer pressure people into doing the right things.

 Monster Rain wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Every generation is the one that will kill society...

Oddly, I think we can lay the blame for this one on the baby-boomers.

Damn Dr. Spock and his child raising advice!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Spock

I can't wait for my 3 week old to spit up on somebody so that I can sue them!

 d-usa wrote:
I can't wait for my 3 week old to spit up on somebody so that I can sue them!

I'll see your spitup and raise you gushing diarreha. Aside from that, belated congratulations on the new addition.

 d-usa wrote:
I can't wait for my 3 week old to spit up on somebody so that I can sue them!

How dare they infringe on your parental barfing privileges!

 Grey Templar wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
I can't wait for my 3 week old to spit up on somebody so that I can sue them!

How dare they infringe on your parental barfing privileges!

Their complaining robbed my daughter of a wonderful and natural experience!

She will never be the same!

I can't imagine what my dad would have done to me if I had even been remotely involved with something like this. It would have been ugly, I might be dead and he might be in jail, IDK. Maybe that's why I never did?

Spartak wrote:
I can't imagine what my dad would have done to me if I had even been remotely involved with something like this. It would have been ugly, I might be dead and he might be in jail, IDK. Maybe that's why I never did?

I don't think I'd be dead, personally, but my ass would have been beaten so hard I wouldn't be able to sit down for a month. I'd also have had every book I owned thrown out, all my action figures burned when I was a kid, and my warhammer stuff (starting when I was 16) would have been chucked as well. I'd be removed from school sports, and never see my friends. My dad would still send me to Tae Kwan Do though, as the instructor would use me as his own personal punching ba-I mean, uh, sparring partner. Yeah, I wasn't stupid enough to think I could get away with something like that.

Oh, and that would all be deserved too. Kinda want a picture from Batman: UtRH with Joker saying "You kids today..."

 Ouze wrote:
Much respect for that one kid who did come forward, anyway. Plenty of people mess up and do stupid things, not enough will square up and accept responsibility for it.

Agreed.

I would've fething frog marched my kids and made them clean/repair that gak up.

And Seaward... quit being that old guy

I am about... *does the math*... 99.7% (rounded) disappointed in humanity right now.

To weigh in on the sub-conversation that's going on here - I was born in '84. I know I wouldn't let any kids of mine get away with that crap - they would be punished in some form. Absolutely no way would I be trying to sue the homeowner, I'd be apologising profusely to him.

Then again - the thought of other parents and their vile, spoilt, self-entitled offspring to share school with is just one of many reasons why I don't actually want kids, and won't be having any any time soon, if ever...!!

 Seaward wrote:
Just bear in mind that, if you were born after 1980 or so, this is exactly how you're going to raise your kids, too.

And that is why I removed myself from the gene-pool. Now I don't have to lay awake at night hoping my kids aren't doing stupid stuff, and I can smuggly comment on internet forums about it.

I was born in '83, and I know that if I ever did anything this stupid & selfish, the cops would still be looking for my corpse... Okay, maybe not quite that far, but my dad would definitely have split my lip and left my arse so soundly spanked I'd be forced to stay standing for a year or so!
And as others have mentioned, every single toy I owned at the time would have been thrown into the garbage/given away to the SallyAnn and my hockey coach would have been informed that I'd no longer be playing for the rest of that year, and he could give my spot away to someone more deserving of it the following year. (and every subsequent year afterwards since I'd be quitting sports altogether due to being a fethhead who needed learn some damned respect!)

I've found that the average teens today simply have 0 respect - either for others or themselves. It's pretty sad when I'm out running an errand or three at the mall and I can literally see up some 15 year old girl's bikini line while her nipples are almost hanging out of her top...
Add to it a childhood of over entitlement where they can do no wrong and never having been taught that their actions have consequences.

IF my kids did that? Sell all their expensive phones/comps/ ipads and give it to him to help pay for the damages(It would be a token gesture.
They would also have all electricity cut off tfo their room for a yeah. And they would have those GPS chips they put in dogs installed on them

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
IF my kids did that? Sell all their expensive phones/comps/ ipads and give it to him to help pay for the damages(It would be a token gesture.
They would also have all electricity cut off tfo their room for a yeah. And they would have those GPS chips they put in dogs installed on them

Yep, that would be about right. I'm wonder how many of these parents realize they are ripe to get hit with a fat lawsuit themselves?

Relapse wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
IF my kids did that? Sell all their expensive phones/comps/ ipads and give it to him to help pay for the damages(It would be a token gesture.
They would also have all electricity cut off tfo their room for a yeah. And they would have those GPS chips they put in dogs installed on them

Yep, that would be about right. I'm wonder how many of these parents realize they are ripe to get hit with a fat lawsuit themselves?

I wonder if a sufficiently motivated DA could pull off a contributing to the delinquency of a minor case in this circumstance.

When I have kids. I have a great place to send them to. Summer School and Scouting.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:

 Seaward wrote:
Just bear in mind that, if you were born after 1980 or so, this is exactly how you're going to raise your kids, too.

And that is why I removed myself from the gene-pool. Now I don't have to lay awake at night hoping my kids aren't doing stupid stuff, and I can smuggly comment on internet forums about it.

And then you can go back to counting the MASSIVE amount of money you've saved by not raising a tiny larva for 18 odd years, not to mention paying for that larva's college education.

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

 Seaward wrote:
Just bear in mind that, if you were born after 1980 or so, this is exactly how you're going to raise your kids, too.

Speak for yourself.

Yeah, thanks for that insult, Seaward. I was raised properly and intend to raise my kids the same way. And I was born in 1985. If I got bad grades, my dad grounded me, not my teacher. If I made a bad choice in life, I was grounded. Of course, my dad would also ask what I'd do differently the next time, accept my answer, and life would go on. I'd still be grounded, but my punishment might be lessened if I learned the proper lesson. Or does your "or so" comment mean up to 5 years after 1980? If so, that's quite a bit of leeway you're giving yourself.

Yeah, I was born in 1993 and this happened to me as well.

 Asherian Command wrote:
When I have kids. I have a great place to send them to. Summer School and Scouting.

IME that stuff does little to actually stop it, you have to be pro active and squash any behavior like that. Besides Summer School is the worst IMO. All your friends are off doing things while you are stuck at school learning stuff you already learned. And because it is so short(Day wise) you really do not learn anything

 djones520 wrote:
Seriously dude? What bug crawled up your ass so hard your going to criticize how we parent our children when you know absolutely nothing about us or how we raise our children? I don't need to prove a damn thing to you, but you certainly just took a few hits in the "why I should give you any respect" category.

More power to you if you're a paladin of parenthood. I guarantee you the parents of these kids feel that way about themselves, too.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:

 Seaward wrote:
Just bear in mind that, if you were born after 1980 or so, this is exactly how you're going to raise your kids, too.

And that is why I removed myself from the gene-pool. Now I don't have to lay awake at night hoping my kids aren't doing stupid stuff, and I can smuggly comment on internet forums about it.

And then you can go back to counting the MASSIVE amount of money you've saved by not raising a tiny larva for 18 odd years, not to mention paying for that larva's college education.

My wife and I spend it on us and our dogs instead

 Seaward wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
Seriously dude? What bug crawled up your ass so hard your going to criticize how we parent our children when you know absolutely nothing about us or how we raise our children? I don't need to prove a damn thing to you, but you certainly just took a few hits in the "why I should give you any respect" category.

More power to you if you're a paladin of parenthood. I guarantee you the parents of these kids feel that way about themselves, too.

I swear, you're trying to win the "most hated person on Dakka" award today, aren't you? The fact that you don't know any (or at least 99%) of us in real life and actually think you know better how we'll raise our current/future children than we do is pretty pants on head. You must be trolling-nobody is that stupid. Most people here are talking about how we'd have been punished as kids, and how our kids would meet a similar reaction for screwing up like that. These parents are blaming everybody else. Just from the conversation you should be able to figure out the difference.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I swear, you're trying to win the "most hated person on Dakka" award today, aren't you? The fact that you don't know any (or at least 99%) of us in real life and actually think you know better how we'll raise our current/future children than we do is pretty pants on head. You must be trolling-nobody is that stupid. Most people here are talking about how we'd have been punished as kids, and how our kids would meet a similar reaction for screwing up like that. These parents are blaming everybody else. Just from the conversation you should be able to figure out the difference.

I simply think you talk a good game, but won't ultimately let your kid end up with a record if you can prevent it, or miss out on getting into a better school if you can prevent it. I'm curious as to why you're getting so angry, though. If I don't know what I'm talking about, why the furious rush to the defensive?

 timetowaste85 wrote:

I swear, you're trying to win the "most hated person on Dakka" award today, aren't you? The fact that you don't know any (or at least 99%) of us in real life and actually think you know better how we'll raise our current/future children than we do is pretty pants on head. You must be trolling-nobody is that stupid. Most people here are talking about how we'd have been punished as kids, and how our kids would meet a similar reaction for screwing up like that. These parents are blaming everybody else. Just from the conversation you should be able to figure out the difference.

To be fair, if I could get my hypothetical kids out of "official" trouble, I would via any way possible. Having a juvenile record CAN'T look good when applying for schools, jobs, etc. I mean, the internet never forgets, and it's a bad, bad place to cultivate negative PR. Privately? Oh, there would be hell to pay for years to come. Years.

The problem here is that the above conditional has already been failed. You CAN'T save them, because the kids have dug their own grave by bragging about their crimes, and by threatening a lawsuit, the parents are effectively broadcasting it to the world loudly from the rooftops. Proper parenting at this point mandates forcing your kids to go forward and pay their dues.

This is just reactionary brandishing of lawyers in the name of protecting their spoiled little rich white brats, and it's going to go to gak deliciously.

Also, you would be best to just ignore him and get on with life. He's the barometer of wrong by which we calibrate our instruments. If you disagree, you know you're doing something right.

 daedalus wrote:
Also, you would be best to just ignore him and get on with life. He's the barometer of wrong by which we calibrate our instruments. If you disagree, you know you're doing something right.

That's a relief!

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
Also, you would be best to just ignore him and get on with life. He's the barometer of wrong by which we calibrate our instruments. If you disagree, you know you're doing something right.

That's a relief!

Amen to that. I'm bowing out and ignoring him.

 Grundz wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
All he did was repost pictures that they themselves put up on the internet. It's not like posted contact information.

Dont get me wrong, these kids are idiots and should be taken to the cleaners, all I was stating was that there was a thin enough face that it might actually go to court, which is what the parents would be shooting for, so he would take the cheaper settlement option.

Again he should immediately sue them first for:
1. trashing his place.
2. attempted balckmail and harassment.

he has deep pockets. They don't.


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 d-usa wrote:
Every generation is the one that will kill society...

Some generations are better then others.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

 Seaward wrote:
Just bear in mind that, if you were born after 1980 or so, this is exactly how you're going to raise your kids, too.

Speak for yourself.

Yeah, thanks for that insult, Seaward. I was raised properly and intend to raise my kids the same way. And I was born in 1985. If I got bad grades, my dad grounded me, not my teacher. If I made a bad choice in life, I was grounded. Of course, my dad would also ask what I'd do differently the next time, accept my answer, and life would go on. I'd still be grounded, but my punishment might be lessened if I learned the proper lesson. Or does your "or so" comment mean up to 5 years after 1980? If so, that's quite a bit of leeway you're giving yourself.

Wow I feel really old now.

We had a dinner party. One couple brought their 6 year old. It was like wow, what is this alien dwarf in my house? I ended up showing him what the moon looks like through a rifle scope and then giving it to him.
Corrupt 'em when they're young!


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 Seaward wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
How is instilling discipline a disadvantage? How is teaching them a version of right and wrong a disadvantage? How is actually diving a crap about my kids' education going to put them at a disadvantage?

Say you've got two equally capable (or troublesome, if you like) children. Child A's parents are doing that instilling discipline thing. Child B's parents are doing the modern parenting, get-my-kid-ahead-at-all-costs thing. You do the math on which one's going to end up with more advantages.

The one with discipline. Helicopter parents are only needed when their kids suck.


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 Jehan-reznor wrote:
The first one the second will be in jail for being a sociopath

or President.


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 d-usa wrote:
I can't wait for my 3 week old to spit up on somebody so that I can sue them!

Three weeks 'eh? I hope you threw sleep a party before it left town. It won't be back for a few years. But have faith, it leaves again when your kids become teenagers...


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 Asherian Command wrote:
When I have kids. I have a great place to send them to. Summer School and Scouting.

Coal mine. 18 tons a day before eight or its already too late!


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 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:

 Seaward wrote:
Just bear in mind that, if you were born after 1980 or so, this is exactly how you're going to raise your kids, too.

And that is why I removed myself from the gene-pool. Now I don't have to lay awake at night hoping my kids aren't doing stupid stuff, and I can smuggly comment on internet forums about it.

And then you can go back to counting the MASSIVE amount of money you've saved by not raising a tiny larva for 18 odd years, not to mention paying for that larva's college education.

My wife and I spend it on us and our dogs instead

DReadclaw's doggies all have the best bling on the block. They're all the rage at the local fire hydrant.

Frazz, was there a rifle attached to the rifle scope?

 Alfndrate wrote:
Frazz, was there a rifle attached to the rifle scope?

Not yet. His mom is a real anti gunner. Baby steps to the darkside...

 Frazzled wrote:

Wow I feel really old now.

We had a dinner party. One couple brought their 6 year old. It was like wow, what is this alien dwarf in my house? I ended up showing him what the moon looks like through a rifle scope and then giving it to him.
Corrupt 'em when they're young!

Frazzled, I wish I knew you


Back on topic:
This is a terrible thing. And quiet frankly I am sad to say that I find myself unsurprised by this behaviour-that's how far my faith in humanity has sunk.
If I ever have spawn then it will be brought up with honour and discipline, and taught right from wrong. And if it ever EVER did something like this then it would find its life reverted to a basic, dull Armish existence, for many years to come.

Frankly I am finding myself more and more disgusted with my own generation, and the ones that are emerging after. A few months ago our door was viciously kicked by some of the brats (9-13 years old) from the niehbouring street. As this was the 2nd time my mum set me on them, and I ran them down as they through themselves into one of their houses. The mother instantly emerged and started denying that they had ever been out of it, and it was only through pointing out that I had followed them and observed them enter that she admitted that they had been outside at all. They then denied all involvement, claiming it was some teenagers from another street. I eventually gave up trying to get some justice and went home (I was in my PJs)

 Frazzled wrote:
DReadclaw's doggies all have the best bling on the block. They're all the rage at the local fire hydrant.

We make sure that they have their Notre Dame jerseys on come gameday

I'd say find the kids and "speak harshly to them" with no witnesses, but that would be wrong.

As a counter. Through the kids and their stuff (especially band) the wife and I have known some great kids, now fully grown and off to college. We even had one kid I cussed out at church (long story, he was being lazy and I was busy) has matured dramatically.

I've seen teenagers rebuild houses, deliver food, and help TBone like senile citizens at a nursing home. We had a whole caravan go off to work in one of the towns in Mississippii hammered by a hurricane, and again by one hit by a tornado.


Have faith. Hope shall not pass utterly from the earth.

 Frazzled wrote:
I'd say find the kids and "speak harshly to them" with no witnesses, but that would be wrong.

Oh no Frazzled, that would involve to much risk of court action (this is the UK we are talking about here-we can break into some ones house and sue them for having slippery tiles)
I have my own plan. Currently I have taken to looking around my local airsoft suppliers, and checking out the costs of the high powered rifles.....
I would like to see one of those little feths try and run when pellets are smacking into their legs...... Or even better if they run onto the park then its time to break out the camo netting and declare a free season......

 Frazzled wrote:

Have faith. Hope shall not pass utterly from the earth.

Indeed. 90% of them will be crap, as with everything, but some kids have the ability to be almost human. Those will be our finest asset.


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 master of ordinance wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
I'd say find the kids and "speak harshly to them" with no witnesses, but that would be wrong.

Oh no Frazzled, that would involve to much risk of court action (this is the UK we are talking about here-we can break into some ones house and sue them for having slippery tiles)
I have my own plan. Currently I have taken to looking around my local airsoft suppliers, and checking out the costs of the high powered rifles.....
I would like to see one of those little feths try and run when pellets are smacking into their legs...... Or even better if they run onto the park then its time to break out the camo netting and declare a free season......

From what I understand about the UK, which is not much, doesn't that get you slapped with an ASBO?

Like, even talking about it?

 daedalus wrote:


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 master of ordinance wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
I'd say find the kids and "speak harshly to them" with no witnesses, but that would be wrong.

Oh no Frazzled, that would involve to much risk of court action (this is the UK we are talking about here-we can break into some ones house and sue them for having slippery tiles)
I have my own plan. Currently I have taken to looking around my local airsoft suppliers, and checking out the costs of the high powered rifles.....
I would like to see one of those little feths try and run when pellets are smacking into their legs...... Or even better if they run onto the park then its time to break out the camo netting and declare a free season......

From what I understand about the UK, which is not much, doesn't that get you slapped with an ASBO?

Like, even talking about it?

Indeed it does. But only if you get caught. And believe me I am that good.

 Frazzled wrote:

Have faith. Hope shall not pass utterly from the earth.

Best thing said in these forums in a while...

Have an exalt.

removed due to the fact I wrote it in a red cloud of anger.

Pro-tip; don't post anything like that online which may come back to bite you

I can understand the kids, outside of a few instigators the rest turned up out of crowd mentality, some probably didnt know that no one from the party lived there until too late and most probably didn't do any damage.

Thats not saying its right, but its understanding crowd mentality, put people in crowds with peer pressure and the do things they wont do otherwise.

However the parents who threaten to sue, they should get visits from the press. I think a rabid journalist backed up by two papparazi with flash cameras will be suitable punishment. I can see them getting real popular if their names are exposed, and I hope they are.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

Pro-tip; don't post anything like that online which may come back to bite you

What he said.

Eh, he's from Europe, guys. They aren't allowed to have those little pea-shooters over there. Tis a silly place.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Eh, he's from Europe, guys. They aren't allowed to have those little pea-shooters over there. Tis a silly place.

Yeah, and they also jail people for posting racist tweets. Imagine what they might do for threatening assault on someone via a website

 Orlanth wrote:
I can understand the kids, outside of a few instigators the rest turned up out of crowd mentality, some probably didnt know that no one from the party lived there until too late and most probably didn't do any damage.

Thats not saying its right, but its understanding crowd mentality, put people in crowds with peer pressure and the do things they wont do otherwise.

However the parents who threaten to sue, they should get visits from the press. I think a rabid journalist backed up by two papparazi with flash cameras will be suitable punishment. I can see them getting real popular if their names are exposed, and I hope they are.

So put them in the chair, under oath and hammer them with either perjury, or obstruction, because they DO know who started it, and those who did obviously deserve some punishment, mandatory volunteer service, cleaning/repairing the guys house.. something.


And yeah, if I were the guy whose house was broken into, I'd send those pictures over to the local news outlet, record all conversations with the parents, turn those over to the news, etc. Should get them singing a more sane tune fairly quick like.

QFT.

Master of Ordnance I read up a page to see if you were from the UK, if you were an American you could get away with that. But as a UK resident its a SHORT CUT TO A MANDATORY CUSTODIAL SENTENCE. I cannot emphasise that enough.
This is a sign of the times sadly, I have heard of any know several similar testimonies.

Ok what can you do.

First you need to be forwarned. Sorry to be cynical, but from experience of many cases known personally (so no not from reading Daily Mail) the cards are stacked against you
Accept this mantra as a sad truth, as it wont end up too far from the mark: the kids are streetsmart, it's the enforcement authorities who are dumb.

First. these kids likely are not stupid, they know you cant touch them, and will complain loud and fast if you do and their complaint will be heard. So don't give them any excuses, retaliation is no defense especially if you get a dogmatised social worker or child protection officer on you, they tend not to listen to reason. As a rule of thumb kids know how to play the system better than adults do, at least the adults who end up mattering.
Second if the offense becomes or has rumour to become firearms related expect crud to roll downhill very very fast. You have been warned. And no, it doesn't have to be a 'real' gun.
Third watch for any angle of accusation of discrimination or abuse. If you or they are ethnic, gay or disabled things change somewhat. This is the reality of our society today. If any of the kids are ethnic and you have an incident with them, expect accusations of racism to fly, then expect the burden of proof to be on you. If you or adults in your family corner a kid alone or in the dark, expect wild accusations of paedophilia from them or their parents, getting out of this will be even more difficult as even baseless accusations can be dangerous if they reach the wrong ears.

Now for the bad news. By having incidences with these kids in the past you are a target. I take it you are fairly young yourself but are over 16. Good for you to stick up for your little brother but ultimately your mum needs to call the police and lodge official complaints. Get the police to come round, which can take a while as the police will be reluctant to send a car to the area due to stretching, especially in the evenings, you can complain anonymously, and never admit to making the call to anyone not in direct authority.
The goal here is to put pressure on the local authority via the police, if these kids are in social housing, and they likely are and they cause enough of a stink, which means there is no small chance the council will evict the families to a sink estate where they belong. To achieve this you need to lodge complaints and create a paper trail, this is better off coming from a full adult taxpayer or council housing tenant.
If you are in sink estate the reason to create a paper trail is to sew the seed for having you moved to a better area instead. If the home is your own and not social housing then this wont help.
However do not otherwise expect complaints to stop the kids.

Talk softly and carry a big stick.
I know of two ex-servicemen living in the same block near to an orphanage. One serviceman got lip from the tearaway kids but stood his ground and spoke softly and firmly back, with no threats issued. He never swore at them. Now when they see him the kids run. The other guy is bigger and more physically impressive but flies into a temper when the kids taunted him, he could easily hurt any of them and could proably take on them all, but the kids respond by taunting him further and victimise his partner too and single out his property to vandalise. Work out the lesson for yourself.

 master of ordinance wrote:

I hate this fething "thou shalt not lay one fingeer the kiddys even be they brats and wholly in need of a good hiding but there incompetent parents refuse to take account for them" edict that the government has going.

I don't blame that on the current government, it came in full force with New Labour alongside other dogmas. The Social services, police and teaching establishments are all thoroughly dogmatised and it will take at least two terms with Labour out of power for any common sense to have a chance of being restored.
If you were living in Scotland it would be different, I know of one exaperated victim of teen hooligans living in Glasgow who was told by the police that so long as he didnt kill or injury them he could do whatever was needed to scare them off. Scotland got this levity because undermining Scottish culture was not part of the agenda, south of the border things are very different.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

Pro-tip; don't post anything like that online which may come back to bite you

Yeh, I sought of figured that one out once I had calmed down. :/
I guess im just angry at those parents whom cannot take responsibility for there own spawn

Thanks for this. As I said, it was my rage that got me commenting like this.
We have reported them to the police more times than I can count, and the most that happened was that we got a crime number. Once. The police in my area just don't do anything and our local station was closed to the public, so we can no longer go and report there. Our next nearest one is over 3 miles away. Frankly I am fed up and I do believe that we do go to softly on these brats but there is nothing I can do I guess.

having looked back I am going to remove my last comment, it was written in the blind rage of maddening anger.

And yes I am over 16, Im 19.

several posts edited or removed due to language.

The language filter is there as we do not want certain terms or words used on the site.

It is not acceptable or permissible for posters to work their way around the filter, this includes "cunningly" replacing letters with ! or similar for example.

This especially applies if you've been spoken to with regards to language in the past.

Kids these days, I'm ashamed to say I was born in the 90s.....

Understood red

welshhoppo wrote:
Kids these days, I'm ashamed to say I was born in the 90s.....

I'm not, quit being so pretentious like somehow you're this brilliant person in comparison to other people in your generation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I'm not really convinced about these generation gaps it seems it has more to do with age and maturity rather than one generation being better or worse than another I've read novels set in the 50's, 60's and 70's and the families seem to be dealing with unruly teenagers back then as

well.

 daedalus wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:

I swear, you're trying to win the "most hated person on Dakka" award today, aren't you? The fact that you don't know any (or at least 99%) of us in real life and actually think you know better how we'll raise our current/future children than we do is pretty pants on head. You must be trolling-nobody is that stupid. Most people here are talking about how we'd have been punished as kids, and how our kids would meet a similar reaction for screwing up like that. These parents are blaming everybody else. Just from the conversation you should be able to figure out the difference.

To be fair, if I could get my hypothetical kids out of "official" trouble, I would via any way possible. Having a juvenile record CAN'T look good when applying for schools, jobs, etc. I mean, the internet never forgets, and it's a bad, bad place to cultivate negative PR. Privately? Oh, there would be hell to pay for years to come. Years.

The problem here is that the above conditional has already been failed. You CAN'T save them, because the kids have dug their own grave by bragging about their crimes, and by threatening a lawsuit, the parents are effectively broadcasting it to the world loudly from the rooftops. Proper parenting at this point mandates forcing your kids to go forward and pay their dues.

But at what point "Shouldn't" your kid not have a record?

Drunken Delinquency?
Possession of Hard Drugs?
Breaking, Entering, and Trashing?

Drunk Driving into Vehicular Manslaughter?

At what point is it proper to, as a parent, say "You dun FETHED up, now live with the consequences." Not saying you don't be there for the poor kid who has to live with himself, but at what point do you say "You made your bed, sleep in it".

I don't have kids, as a disclaimer.

 Slarg232 wrote:

But at what point "Shouldn't" your kid not have a record?

Drunken Delinquency?
Possession of Hard Drugs?
Breaking, Entering, and Trashing?

Drunk Driving into Vehicular Manslaughter?

At what point is it proper to, as a parent, say "You dun FETHED up, now live with the consequences." Not saying you don't be there for the poor kid who has to live with himself, but at what point do you say "You made your bed, sleep in it".

I don't have kids, as a disclaimer.

Publicly? After you've pulled out every last legal stop to keep them from having one. The legal system is designed around the assumption that you'll be doing that, so you have to do it to get the fairest shake possible.

Privately? You ALWAYS deal with the consequences. If they were my kids, caught bragging or otherwise, I'd see them up there with a mop and bucket, helping to clean up for as long as it takes.

They already broke the first rule though: If you're going to feth up, make it as difficult to find out about as possible. The fact that these kids were bragging about it means that it's too late. They're already nasty little sociopaths.

IIRC, dont most offenses conducted by minors tend to completely disappear once they turn 18? By most I mean, just about everything short of murder, or especially violent crimes, or serious repeat offenses.

Truthfully,

I don't recognize anyone's right to exist outside of the family.

Well. I have to admit. There are many ways to raise your kids right. Some are good, some are to touchy feely lovey, and some are...denying reality. Always remember

You are the product of your environment

Your kids are in your environment

Its up to you as a parent to get your point across to them.

My best point I did. I brought a Xbox 360 and a PS3. Two failing report cards in a row. One blown up teen with a chip on his shoulder. Equal two smashed game system with a hockey stick. The other teen. I deleted all his level 80 toons from WoW.

 Jihadin wrote:
Well. I have to admit. There are many ways to raise your kids right. Some are good, some are to touchy feely lovey, and some are...denying reality. Always remember

You are the product of your environment

Your kids are in your environment

Its up to you as a parent to get your point across to them.

My best point I did. I brought a Xbox 360 and a PS3. Two failing report cards in a row. One blown up teen with a chip on his shoulder. Equal two smashed game system with a hockey stick. The other teen. I deleted all his level 80 toons from WoW.

I personally do not like that style. I think it is a waste and just causes them to resent you. If you take it the feth away then IMO it gives the kids something to work for, priviliges back and so forth.

 Jihadin wrote:
You are the product of your environment

Well I guess that answers the whole nature vs. nurture argument that has been going on for some time now.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
Well. I have to admit. There are many ways to raise your kids right. Some are good, some are to touchy feely lovey, and some are...denying reality. Always remember

You are the product of your environment

Your kids are in your environment

Its up to you as a parent to get your point across to them.

My best point I did. I brought a Xbox 360 and a PS3. Two failing report cards in a row. One blown up teen with a chip on his shoulder. Equal two smashed game system with a hockey stick. The other teen. I deleted all his level 80 toons from WoW.

I personally do not like that style. I think it is a waste and just causes them to resent you. If you take it the feth away then IMO it gives the kids something to work for, priviliges back and so forth.

Their future landlord won't see it that way

Well Im not their land lord.

I'm not out to win a popularity contest with my kids. I'm being a parent. If they can remember all the cheat codes, hidden caches, excellent hide spots, and the places to get the best gear then they should do great in school. Your "shock" because I went out and trashed 1500 worth of game systems and games and not sweat the "loss" of money. I'm not a "softy" parent. Granted I have not laid a belt on them like my dad did to me or nailed me in my head with a real Wok due to me saying the Fbomb to many times that POed my mom. Its tough love Airborne. Nothing but tough love.

Whatever you think is right. There is no "right way" to parent. But there are wrong ways.

The over board on whipping a kid is way to much of a punishment. Physically punishment to the extreme is not worth the hurt

I agree. I remember a girl telling me how her grand mother woud hit her with a broom. If she mis behaved the mther would point to a broom and she would stop. I was astonished. It didnt teach them why something was wrong, or why they should not do it. It teaches them to fear the parent. I think that no matter what a kid should never fear a parent.

 Cheesecat wrote:

welshhoppo wrote:
Kids these days, I'm ashamed to say I was born in the 90s.....

I'm not, quit being so pretentious like somehow you're this brilliant person in comparison to other people in your generation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I'm not really convinced about these generation gaps it seems it has more to do with age and maturity rather than one generation being better or worse than another I've read novels set in the 50's, 60's and 70's and the families seem to be dealing with unruly teenagers back then as

well.

What if he really is more brilliant than everyone else in his generation? I mean, someone's got to be.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I agree. I remember a girl telling me how her grand mother woud hit her with a broom. If she mis behaved the mther would point to a broom and she would stop. I was astonished. It didnt teach them why something was wrong, or why they should not do it. It teaches them to fear the parent. I think that no matter what a kid should never fear a parent.

I was taught it teaches kids that violence works and that it is ok to hurt someone you love.

 xole wrote:
I was taught it teaches kids that violence works and that it is ok to hurt someone you love.

Chris Brown is that you?

 Jihadin wrote:
I'm not out to win a popularity contest with my kids. I'm being a parent.

These 2 sentences should be remembered by EVERY parent, everywhere...

Update on the story. 6 of the kids have been arrested. Wonder how well that will help the parents sue the homeowner.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/27/police-arrest-6-people-for-vandalism-after-partying-teens-trash-ex-nfl-player/