FarseerAndyMan wrote: I saw some guys playing with these huge units that had graveyards and little houses in the unit and they called it "filler"...
Can someone enlighten me please?
Its called how to make your money go farther you take a large piece and put in the back of your unitto fill in and make a bigger unit if you can't or don't want to afford all the models.
Yeah, unit fillers are used to add a bit of variety to units as well as showing off your modelling skills and saving a bit of money in the process. With a few extra bits, you can mount, say, two model on a base for six, saving you some money, as well as meaning that your unit isn't the same model repeated over and over again, rank after rank. It's more aesthetically pleasing, and some look really good.
Common ones are graveyards and your unit stomping on banners/bodies of the enemy.
There are no official rules, but a general rule of thumb is that the majority of the unit should still be the generic rank and file. This is mainly to avoid anyone wondering just what that unit tray of scenery with 5 Skaven in front of it is.
Unit fillers aren't even mentioned in the rules. Your entire unit could be filler. It would be legal, but very hard to show damage and annoying for your opponent.
So, make sure there are a number of models behind your unit filler, equal to however many places your unit filler takes up, minus one. So, if your unit filler takes up the space of six regular guys, make sure there are at least five guys further back in the unit that can be removed as casualties before the unit filler. That way, when the unit filler takes damage, you replace the six man unit filler with the five regular guys, which is one less "space" in your unit, hence one casualty.
Unit fillers are great although Idon't care for them if they break the theme of the arm or are done half assed.
Using six bases and putting 1 0r 2 tombstones on it is a bit of a cop out IMO.
That's not to say you cant do it, it's just my taste..kind of like when people just airbrush 3 colors on their models.
Modeling and painting is a large part of the hobby, if you're not going to make an effort just use cardboard squares.
Just my opinion.
Iwouldn't exceed 30 or 40% fillers though. Even that is almost too many IMO.
Check out the great skaven fillers from 'Kefas skaven'
Incredible work
I have some in my dwarf army, including a brain damaged ogre who thinks he's a dwarf (and dressed accordingly, including a fake beard) and a drunk who had to be dragged in his sleeping bag to the battle. They both fit nicely on a 40mm base, and take up the space of 4 men.
I've been told that 40k miniatures are great because you can make each one a work of art and, with 2" unit coherency, you've got plenty of space to show it off. WHFB armies are so crowded that you don't get much individual artwork, and that where fantasy armies really look great is when you have big blocks of models.
If that's true, then why is it a good thing to break up those big blocks with filler? Isn't that counterproductive? Isn't the point of a unit of spearmen looking cool is because they look like:
You know, the giant block of angry dudes?
No offense to the creator here, but it looks like things like this:
are running pretty much completely counter to what is supposed to be the aesthetic of the game.
Also, I would note that if you had a unit with this big rat stone or some tombstones, or whatever, well, certainly the guys wouldn't be carrying something like that around. Something with immobile unit fillers would only make sense on a unit that you have no intention of moving. Unless those zombies are picking that entire mausoleum up and moving it around...
Though perhaps this is all a problem with execution, rather than design.
Very true, Ailarios. Big blocks of models can be impressive, but they can be very repetitive and dull. Normally, they're fine as they are, but with certain models, or very large units, they can start to lose their appeal. In 40k, you'd convert a model to be unique. No-one else will have the model. Unit Fillers are the same in WHFB. They add a bit of variety to units, which is always nice. At the end of the day though, many people use them simply to save money.
Thanks for the feedback fellas!
@pitties2005 -- Im putting together a Roman themed Empire army.
My buddies play WFB alot and I want to get in, but the current rules really put me off...the magic is too much, the terrain rules are absurd and the dumb rule about being unbreakable if you have X amount of troops is kinda silly, but im sure they will get fixed. Anyway, I want to put together this army to play Ancients as well. My plan is to use Wargames Factory Romans for my rank and file and bring on Elephants..the roman list in ancients allows them!!
So with the unit filler, im trying to figure out what would be an appropriate filler....any ideas...Ive got one block of 16 centurion legionaires, one block of 36 regulars and a block of 16 cavalry to start the army. I want to get some bolt throwers..im thinking the High Elf BT would work, just replace the crew...
I've been told that 40k miniatures are great because you can make each one a work of art and, with 2" unit coherency, you've got plenty of space to show it off. WHFB armies are so crowded that you don't get much individual artwork, and that where fantasy armies really look great is when you have big blocks of models.
If that's true, then why is it a good thing to break up those big blocks with filler? Isn't that counterproductive? Isn't the point of a unit of spearmen looking cool is because they look like:
You know, the giant block of angry dudes?
No offense to the creator here, but it looks like things like this:
are running pretty much completely counter to what is supposed to be the aesthetic of the game.
Also, I would note that if you had a unit with this big rat stone or some tombstones, or whatever, well, certainly the guys wouldn't be carrying something like that around. Something with immobile unit fillers would only make sense on a unit that you have no intention of moving. Unless those zombies are picking that entire mausoleum up and moving it around...
Though perhaps this is all a problem with execution, rather than design.
Yeah, that is a problem with execution.
Fillers should at least make sense.
A unit of skeletons/zombies with a base of tombstones and a couple models clawing their way out of the graves = awesome
Tomb King Skeletons rising from the Desert Sands = awesome
A unit of Empire troops with a couple guys hauling around extra supplies = awesome
Some Beastigors running through some trees or shrubs = awesome
Skaven emerging from the sewers = awesome
A couple Orks/goblins going at it fisticuffs = very awesome
Some gnoblars squabbling over something shiny = awesome
Easy. Instead of buying 4 minatures, get 1 on a 50x50mm base (that takes up 4 25x25mm troops, throw it in the back or middle.... Builds big units with less miniatures, saves time & money!
1) The rule of cool: If it looks cool, it's fine. If it looks like rubbish, don't bother.
2) You can't go wrong with 4 figures on a unit filler replacing 4 minis. You can go VERY wrong with one figure on a unit filler replacing ten minis.
3) Put some thought and effort into it. Don't just have a tree; have a goblin or two in that tree either hiding from the unit, or spotting for the unit.
My white lion unit for my HE army has a single lion (from the chariot kit) replacing 6 models in the block of 20 as a filler. It is a lion, it is painted white, and it is called "KIMBA".
It reminds my opponents that this block with +2s choppy weapons are white lions.
My spearmen don't have a filler as such I just have blocks of 5 troops for the most part (front and back ranks are singles, but the other ranks are in 5's. Makes removing casualties easier.)
after reading this thread ive decided to make some unit fillers for my Lizardmen using the snakes from the cold one riders and one Lizardmen on a 75/50mm base. what do you think?
I did this mostly with my Vampire counts as the units are VERY boring to continue to paint. Skeletons stink to continue painting, especially when you're at 50 of them. I ended up using 3 seperate 40x40 bases with skeletons climbing out of the dirt. 2 - 3 skeletons cut down and smaller dragging themselves from the dirt.
My other filler was one using the statue that comes with the graveyard, this filler was large, but I've never had anyone complain, it takes up 16 spots of a 40 block of ghouls but I used the wraiths from the Mortis Engine to be spilling out of the cracks in the statue, and then there are blood covered ghouls crawling all around it with little blood footprints up the statue to where the ghouls stand. I really don't mind how big the filler is as long as it fits with the unit.
There are lots of folks that slap a filler together and roll with it, but I can't blame them on this, especially when you consider hoard armies with Goblins, Gnoblars, etc. I've also been putting together an idea for a Marauder block that has marauder Ogres, and a Marauding giant for my WoC. I never discourage creativity in model use for fillers. Some folks are better at it then others, and even in the skaven example, I'm not going to tell someone that their filler sucks and I'm not playing against it, for all you know that could have been made by a 12 year old kid.
ahh yeah i agree, having the same height would be better then to have a semi large hole in the unit. i was thinking of adding maybe one Lizardmen amungst them. If I added banners wouldn't that become confusing with the BSB/SB?
I'm sadly not that inspirational when it comes to creation. so my fillers might be dull. maybe a small Aztec pyramid with the snakes?
i was thinking of doing a similar thing with my WoC. but i only run 6/3 units of 18 so a unit filler might be a tad pointless. but i was thinking of throwing in a Knight? risen so he stands above the units? as if hes giving the orders?
I'm pro unit filler. I play night goblins, working on about 12,000 points of them.. 700 goblins in my core alone + 22 fanatics or so.. I have a lot of unit fillers...
I use like 5-6 of those battle for skull pass shaman tents on screaming bell bases (takes up 15 goblins!)
few mushrooms sculpted from prescription pill bottles/foam half-balls. ( taking up 9 models)
shaman casting a spell turning a dwarf slayer into the heroquest squig with a mohawk with weapons dropped at his side and another slayer running up on shaman
screaming bell base with a nuclear mushroom cloud explosion
screaming bell base with cauldron/floating island above cauldron with magnetized slots for a prisoner and fanatic up on island with stink lines forming a cage around the 2
half of foam balls with squigs scuplted over popping through ground attacking goblins/goblins poking them in eyes (these take up 25 models and have a 3 measly goblins on them mwa hahaha!)
granted a couple of these are works in progress but idea is there solidly enough
I have so so so so many goblins to paint and am trying to keep a decent standard so to me, its only logical to use fillers... To break up monotony also. 700 BFSP goblins is booooooooring.
I also think its egregious some of the prices people are expected to pay to play certain units. How about a horde of 30 witch elves? Isn't that like $180 USD+ tax retail now? thats 1 unit of core, that doesn't even fulfill your entire core requirement for a 2500~ list right? (wants me to go on a squig rant but I won't... You try fielding hundreds of squigs at GW prices! ok maybe a little one)
I personally think that skaven filler is fine. It may not be the best looking or executed thing ever, but i would play against it happily, and compliment the person for their efforts. Their's doesn't look like anyone else's ya know?
as far as rules wise go, I know fantasy doesn't have a written rule to ignore basing elements etc, but some of my unit fillers could easily screen some stuff/block LOS so we always play them as if filler wasn't present and was just the height of the unit it is in
if you go to this blog , you will be able to see some armies with fillers. The very first picture notably, a crazy and amazing project (took the guy 3 years) of a Fimir army, with some nice fillers
A large zombie horde on another picture has some fillers as well
A shame the gobbo army is not on here, had some crazy brawls and large Mushrooms (Night Goblins) within the unit as fillers
edit: for a closer look at the fimir army with fillers, click here!
St1mp0 wrote: does anyone have any pictures of their unit fillers they'd be happy to share with the class?
sorry for bad pic, was just a progress update of my tourney army
you can make out the mushroom filler, floating island (pretty raw still)
just beyond the red mushroom is 2 yellow mushrooms with shaman morphin a dwarf, can't see it worth a crap. will take some shots tonight
pretty rough miscast still, need to smooth parts out/fill gaps and haven't decided if going to add goblin bits shooting out all over.. also need a colorscheme for it
couple more shots of the island w/ my captured chaos dwarf lord / fanatic (magnetized/removable)
rough shot of a squig, this guy is finished up nearly. has 3 colors and gobllins added poking his eyes/ throwing nets on him
So you have to sculpt them your own :( That would cost more then actual models ? Someone mentioned using stuff like chariot lions from HE and tomb stones from skeleton boxs etc . do dwarfs have stuff like that too ?
It should easy enough to find a suitable barrel. Craft stores often have them for dioramas. Then you just need to find a dwarf you can either repose or who is already posed appropriately.
Really you use your imagination with these things.
Never done modeling and don't want to destroy models I already have . From what I have seen in modeling stores around here they have only modern stuff and it scaled different.
All the dwarfs I own are from skull pass , so reposing them would be too hard for me.
In what boxs can I ind dwarfs , that are posed well for fillers ?
Only you can answer that question. Make a filler that you like. Come up with your own ideas. My keg carrier was only an example of potential fillers. Your own will be better because they'll be yours.
yeah the problem is I don't want to risk messing up models and ending up with something people won't let me use .I can't remember seeing anyone using fillers around here and I want it to be all legal . I don't have the money to buy stuff and pay someone to build it , only to find out I just wasted money.
Makumba wrote: yeah the problem is I don't want to risk messing up models and ending up with something people won't let me use .I can't remember seeing anyone using fillers around here and I want it to be all legal . I don't have the money to buy stuff and pay someone to build it , only to find out I just wasted money.
look up 28mm or 25mm scale dungeon accessories (barrels and stuff) and you could use those for your beer barrels.
my friend who has skull pass dwarves uses the pony car in the middle of a block, and the dwarven ruin-wall things are a rank of 5 guys.
You could build a platform and have a dwarf posing up on top of it like he's giving a speech, really all up to your imagination.
you can get away with doing it a lot cheaper than models.
my 9 goblin mushroom cost maybe $2.50 in total. I cut the base from plastic, used an old pill bottle, hot glued half a styrofoam ball on top, then covered foam with putty and painted it. that's pretty cheap.
a good start would be to go ahead and ask members of the group you play with regularly about it and get ideas as to what they think is acceptable.
Those tikis are neat! My buddy has aquarium foliage in his lizards. Well 2 friends do! So pretty common for lizards. Hell even my 3rd frames beats of nurgle are hanging out in aquarium foliage like its a swamp.
The mushroom is big. I can't tell you exactly how big but big. The diameter of the shockewave is about 9-10" I think?
Thanks!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Makumba wrote: Did it today . They said fillers that aren't made out of GW models are illegal :( Still would like to thank everyone for advice.
Well you could use the pony cart from the skull pass set and dwarf stone wall things? Hope that helps!
You could make a carried platform, and cut axe heads off warriors and convert axe handles into poles.. Poles connect into bottom of or ate platform? Then could throw you a dwarf lord or runesmith up there ? So you'll have 5 gw models take up 9 or more?
The only time I but multipart night goblins is when I want to pose them for fillers or to have them posed for riding a mount.
I assume you are playing a gw store, sorry to hear they being that way. If you sculpt or create it from scratch, should be good to go.
Automatically Appended Next Post: At a second look at tikis, I could totlly see skinks shootin from stop those or clinging to them, hangin out the mouths...
Could see forest goblins doin same.... *whistles to self*
Makumba wrote: Did it today . They said fillers that aren't made out of GW models are illegal :( Still would like to thank everyone for advice.
The legality of GW models falls off if you supplies from craft stores or build your own and add a GW model or 2. If they still say no, then they are just being douche bags and don't understand the hobby. IMO Check stores like Hobby Lobby and Michaels. (If you are not in the US I can't recommend stores).
Hobby Lobby has a large selection of wood craft and there are small barrels that are a good size. They are relatively cheap, about $3 for 9 I think.
You can also use Balsa wood, and snaps from the sewing section dirt cheap, and make a wheelbarrow. Then take a small rod and cut to the right size to fill the wheelbarrow with crossbow bolts. This would take up about a 40mm square, i.e 4 models.
Or take the same Balsa strips and make a weapons rack. Add any extra crossbows or hammers lying around.
Go on ebay, find a busted up terrible bunch of orc models for cheap, cut them up add a little blood and gore stick a couple on a 40mm base with a dwarf.
There are many ways to fill in space and keep to the theme of the army.
Just practice. Make a few, read some hobby blogs. Search dwarf unit fillers on google (or whatever search you prefer) Use the first ones til you can make better ones.
I find it tons of fun and adds great character. I found this one on google for you. Very simple. Sorry about the size of the pic Not the best at the computer stuff.
Makumba wrote: Did it today . They said fillers that aren't made out of GW models are illegal :( Still would like to thank everyone for advice.
Where are you playing?
If it's at a GW store, they (should) have no qualms with scratch-built stuff. They only dislike models from other suppliers because they lose them money (a box of dwarves bought from mantic is a box of dwarves less bought from GW). Scratch building stuff is not really losing them money. I play with Battlewagons that have Deffrollas made from loo roll on them at my local GW regularly, they're fine with that, and technically I'm depriving them of the sale of 3 Battlewagon upgrade sprues.
If it's at a GW store, they (should) have no qualms with scratch-built stuff. They only dislike models from other suppliers because they lose them money (a box of dwarves bought from mantic is a box of dwarves less bought from GW). Scratch building stuff is not really losing them money. I play with Battlewagons that have Deffrollas made from loo roll on them at my local GW regularly, they're fine with that, and technically I'm depriving them of the sale of 3 Battlewagon upgrade sprues.
Also, remember the rule of cool.
either at my friends home or at a FLGS , there is one GW shop in Poland , but it puts "special" in to special . There are 3 tables there , but you can only play the demo starter sets on those or you can participate in events . Those apo gone wrong games, with stuff like bring an sm hero and only an sm hero who is painted to play , you can't bring a non marine HQ , hell you can't even bring a SW or DA one . The WFB ones are the same bring your units of Dark elfs and have a huge battle dark elfs on dark elfs , only the huge is 5 people playing with one dudes army to get the promo plastics for his army.
The problem with balsa here is that it is sold in two places . Specialists stores where you can buy it , if you are an architect or student and hardware stores , but they sell only it in bulk .
My friends are against counts as or using models from other firms or systems for any game. They do use fillers , but only if they are made out of models that were in actual boxs. So a lion from a chariot is ok , but the pony cart is not , because they say it is a non gaming pice.
Go on ebay, find a busted up terrible bunch of orc models for cheap, cut them up add a little blood and gore stick a couple on a 40mm base with a dwarf.
buying online is not an option for me .
I checked my codex and couldn't find death rollers , are they a FW unit or limited edition stuff?
Wow!!
I'd probably never go in the GW store with those kind of restrictions.
As for hobby materials it sounds like you have a hard out there..maybe google a few things and see what you can come up with.
Check hardware or crafts stores. Sewing shops, wood working. Any scale model places if you have any shops that do model railroads.
Look at pictures and try to find things of similar size and shapes. Lego can be useful with a bit of tweaking and a coat of paint.
Remember all the fancy materials now, although they generate great results they are not required.
20 years ago we made do with card board and cereal packets and leftover sprues
Looks like you've got a rough gaming group to boot.
The deathroller was an old dwarf model. Basically a steamroller with a spikey instead of smooth roll.
cool thing about the death roller . Thanks to comunism we skiped on the whole cardboard box for cereal , when they arrived here it was plastic bags all the way. It is actualy hard to get materials to build stuff , because you either have to buy a lot of it or you need to buy it in specialist shops which sell them to architects and students of architecture only..
In that case they don't really have any right to enforce such harsh GW model-only rules. Not at the FLGS and certainly not at someone's house. If it's a group of friends, then there should be a relaxed, calm, accommodating atmosphere where you're free be be creative and just have fun. Not some GW-run tournament round at Warhammer World!
Now, if you're playing a GW games system then I can totally understand not wanting third party miniatures like mantic etc, that's okay. But saying you can't use the pony cart or any scenic pieces (from a GW box!!) because they're not a "gaming piece" is, frankly, a ridiculous attitude to have.
I hate to say it because they're your mates and all, but to me it seems like they've totally lost touch with the heart and spirit of what the hobby is supposed to be about...
wow, so your friends, Makumba would not play you unless your army was made entirely from GW models?
All armies here for all systems are played under tournament rules , even the FAQ we use are not the GW or PP ones , but the one used in tournaments here. As far as the shop goes , because it doesn't run non GW stuff you can only play GW stuff there. Aside for demons it is not even allowed to use WFB or w40k models in the other game.
I must be the only player in Midgard that thinks that unit fillers are terrible.
To me, if you are running a block of 20 spearmen, it should be 20 spearmen, not 12 with two 4 model fillers. If I have taken the time to collect, build and paint a unit, I would be ticked if someone showed up to play me with fillers in theirs
I don't play competitively. it just looks wrong to have a house moving around with your soldiers!
Th0rh4mm3r wrote: I must be the only player in Midgard that thinks that unit fillers are terrible.
To me, if you are running a block of 20 spearmen, it should be 20 spearmen, not 12 with two 4 model fillers. If I have taken the time to collect, build and paint a unit, I would be ticked if someone showed up to play me with fillers in theirs
I don't play competitively. it just looks wrong to have a house moving around with your soldiers!
And I would be just as ticked if you had a fit about the unit filler that I worked hard to make look good and provide some variety from endless ranks of the same model over and over again.
Different people have different tastes, and emphasize different parts of the hobby. If someone loves the modeling aspect and plays the game to show off his work as much as to... well, play the game, does that mean they're playing the game wrong? IF someone hates painting minis but loves playing the game, so he does a bare-minimum paint job of marginal appearance so he can get down to playing the game, is he playing the game wrong?
No, they are not. They may be falling afoul of your personal preferences, but the hobby involves more than just putting metal (and plastic) on the table. If it bothers you that much, just don't play them.
If you really WANT to limit the pool of people willing to play you, be my guest. I prefer to play as many different players as possible, to match my tactics against theirs as well as make some new friends along the way (the unstated THIRD part of the hobby - it is a SOCIAL hobby, after all!)
Th0rh4mm3r wrote: I must be the only player in Midgard that thinks that unit fillers are terrible.
To me, if you are running a block of 20 spearmen, it should be 20 spearmen, not 12 with two 4 model fillers. If I have taken the time to collect, build and paint a unit, I would be ticked if someone showed up to play me with fillers in theirs
I don't play competitively. it just looks wrong to have a house moving around with your soldiers!
And I would be just as ticked if you had a fit about the unit filler that I worked hard to make look good and provide some variety from endless ranks of the same model over and over again.
Different people have different tastes, and emphasize different parts of the hobby. If someone loves the modeling aspect and plays the game to show off his work as much as to... well, play the game, does that mean they're playing the game wrong? IF someone hates painting minis but loves playing the game, so he does a bare-minimum paint job of marginal appearance so he can get down to playing the game, is he playing the game wrong?
No, they are not. They may be falling afoul of your personal preferences, but the hobby involves more than just putting metal (and plastic) on the table. If it bothers you that much, just don't play them.
If you really WANT to limit the pool of people willing to play you, be my guest. I prefer to play as many different players as possible, to match my tactics against theirs as well as make some new friends along the way (the unstated THIRD part of the hobby - it is a SOCIAL hobby, after all!)
QFT
Nothing more boring than 100 monopose models painted substandard. I can't paint very well but can ring a lot of uniqueness/wow factor with sculpting/unit fillers nd I find not only more enjoyment, but has allowed me to accumulatea more models to make different armor of, which led to me bringin friends into hobby with extra models..
When I hear the attitude put forth about this sort of thing all I think... "Well it's not my fault you didn't do this also and save $$".... It's like a driver of a rolls Royce or Bugatti, "hey I dropped over half a million to drive on this road.." I don't want to share it with these pintos, beaters, and kias."
It doesn't take a half million dollar car to go a to b, nor does anyone have to love up to someone else's standards on how thy play with their toy soldiers. It's more than unfortunate that makumba has to deal with these people.
Like quite honestly, is everyone anti filler rich? I'm scraping by, despite living fiscally conservative and working full time, but due to family needs I never had more than a few bucks for hobby... $5 of plasti. $10 of putty so I can make $100+ of models? Seems like a lot better deal than 20 witch elves for $120..
Different strokes for different folks, if you act like it's laziness that is factor then youre a bit misguided i think. Someof us can't afford to buy the models hence we use fillers. Some people do it to boycott gw but that's a seperate group/reasoning.
We could just quit playing make y'all happy, or continue right the hell on with how de do things already as sure most of us have no problems gettin games.
Still sorry abou your mates and shop makumba.
Anyways sorry if I'm ranting. Edit: pardon fat finger no glasses wearing poor spelling and grammar. It should be understandable still.
I don't understand why there is so much hate for unit fillers as long as they aren't just slopped together. I mean seriously why should i have to go spend $ on another box of models if i only need 1 more guy? Unit fillers exist for just such an occasion and I know a bunch of guys who also use unit fillers.
Hell even for tournaments around here we have people that only use half (sometimes not even that) of the correct models for a unit. When I look at a unit of empire greatswords and see half of them being high elf swordmasters that's just not right. But a unit filler would work and fit in much better.
Honestly if people wanted to be a dick over the fact that I have a unit filler then i just wouldn't play them. It's not in the spirit of the game. People need to remember it's about having fun and not being TFG.
I've seen white lions use the lion from the chariot, I've seen chosen and warriors of chaos use the beast from their newer chariot model. There are many ways you can use filler. I've seen skaven unit fillers for slaves use a couple of storm vermin pushing the slaves around with a pack master. I've seen clan rats swarming a fountain, dwarf miners coming up from a big hole in the ground with an excavator/drill looking thing (something similar for the skaven as well). With VC, you can get the grave yard terrain and make a small grave site behind the front line, you can do this with grave guard, etc. just as long as it looks good and when you start to take casualties you can replace them with actual models, it will be fine.
I love 'reasonable' filler. Like someone said, having a 4x4 base of orcs punching each other? Awesome! My VC friend has some great fillers for his zombies and ghouls with graveyards and things crawling up out of the ground. It's when I see giant monsters or buildings moving with a unit that I go o.O. They can look awesome, for sure, but they kind of muddy things up. Like the griffon with the spearmen idea... it would keep making me go "Oh god that thing is scary! ....oh right", which would get old fast. The giant buildings moving along also get a little weird with LoS and just general aesthetics for me. That being said, I would never refuse a game or even whine about any of this. I'd get over it and play. Just sharing what goes through my head when I see some of the crazy big stuff.
a friend of mine sculpted a lizardmen saraus warrior for me as a birthday gift. unfortunately he is a little top heavy for a 25mm base! so im going to attach him to a 50/50mm base and have some sort of scenic display to fill in the gaps and that then fills up my missing 3 saraus warriors. saved me spending money to get 3 guys!
i love the idea of fillers and anything which encourages people to be creative in their collection is ok by me!
just as long as it doesnt become cofusing when adding up the wounds in combat
i.e:
"ok, youve killed 14 guys. i have to take 4 away, then remove my unit filler (50/100mm) which makes 8! now i take 2 guys away... oh wait i cant, my army isnt in order. hang on ill put 4 back. then take 8 from the front rank and then place the chariot filler in and then take the remaining 4 guys... how many is that now?"
o.O
"ummm, ive lost count!"
o.O
"right, all sorted but my chariot is facing sideways and we must pretend i have 2 more guys there!"
St1mp0 wrote: a friend of mine sculpted a lizardmen saraus warrior for me as a birthday gift. unfortunately he is a little top heavy for a 25mm base! so im going to attach him to a 50/50mm base and have some sort of scenic display to fill in the gaps and that then fills up my missing 3 saraus warriors. saved me spending money to get 3 guys!
i love the idea of fillers and anything which encourages people to be creative in their collection is ok by me!
just as long as it doesnt become cofusing when adding up the wounds in combat
i.e:
"ok, youve killed 14 guys. i have to take 4 away, then remove my unit filler (50/100mm) which makes 8! now i take 2 guys away... oh wait i cant, my army isnt in order. hang on ill put 4 back. then take 8 from the front rank and then place the chariot filler in and then take the remaining 4 guys... how many is that now?"
o.O
"ummm, ive lost count!"
o.O
"right, all sorted but my chariot is facing sideways and we must pretend i have 2 more guys there!"
that type of scenario would annoy me lol
Not sure what types of people you play but the unit filler shouldn't get in the way of the front rank and the back rows of the unit should be enough to replace all unit fillers. Unit filler should not make up more than half of the unit because then you can remove casualties. It's why most people use it for small units like 4 models. If you kill 4 just remove the filler. If you kill 3, just remove 3 models until you lose 1 more. It's not hard unless you're used to playing liars and cheats.
i know
i was merely giving an example of what i wouldn't allow when it came to the size of fillers. and how they should be used/designed to avoid confusion/unit formation
Wow, I think the only thing worse than people hating on unit fillers is the people who are hating on people who are hating on unit fillers. "It's a social game, so don't be rude, you jackass" doesn't come across very becoming, much less a strong argument for anything.
skyfi wrote:Nothing more boring than 100 monopose models painted substandard.
But that's a problem with the game or with the painter, not with a lack of unit fillers. Plus, if the person can't make nice looking minis then it's HIGHLY dubious that they're going to be making nice unit fillers. At least with the models, the stuff on the table is representing what the stuff on the table is supposed to be. A bunch of crudely painted hardware store fixtures sloppily glued together and slathered in bitz is way worse than monopose, poorly-painted real models.
Reasons of "But I'm an artist, look at my snowflake", and "But I'm cheap, look how I can avoid buying models" doesn't mean you're immune to getting called out for doing things in poor taste. There's nothing wrong with using unit fillers, but there's nothing sacrosanct about them either.
Ailaros wrote: Wow, I think the only thing worse than people hating on unit fillers is the people who are hating on people who are hating on unit fillers. "It's a social game, so don't be rude, you jackass" doesn't come across very becoming, much less a strong argument for anything.
skyfi wrote:Nothing more boring than 100 monopose models painted substandard.
But that's a problem with the game or with the painter, not with a lack of unit fillers. Plus, if the person can't make nice looking minis then it's HIGHLY dubious that they're going to be making nice unit fillers. At least with the models, the stuff on the table is representing what the stuff on the table is supposed to be. A bunch of crudely painted hardware store fixtures sloppily glued together and slathered in bitz is way worse than monopose, poorly-painted real models.
Reasons of "But I'm an artist, look at my snowflake", and "But I'm cheap, look how I can avoid buying models" doesn't mean you're immune to getting called out for doing things in poor taste. There's nothing wrong with using unit fillers, but there's nothing sacrosanct about them either.
I'm not sure what you mean by us hating those who hate unit fillers. I have heard reasoning for why, some iseasure in support of the fellows whose friends require filler be made o playable gw models only, etc.
Frankly, it's a social contract to play game. If you have a problem with my fillers, there are other people to play. I'm not shy o stating that I don't think fillers are a bad thing. I haven't tried to come across rude, but the notion that people are only doing it to be lazy, or that it's unfai because try should have to pay as much as you..
That's what seems to bother people, when its insinuated tey are a lesser being for using filler, and they are right to be upset I feel. I don't insinuate that people who don't use filler are flashing their money around.
People are not created equal, and people aren't all equally good painters.. So you can't just expect everyone to paint to high standards. They may want to employ other methods to make their army stand out like fillers.
Do you know any electricians? Are they also equally competent carpenters?
Just because you can't paint well, does NOT mean you can't make good filler. It's like people can have different strengths and weaknesses.
The concept I need to buy 7 35$ boxes of goblins to fill out my core, that's a problem. People have to address it one way or another
I can understand not being fond of certain poorly made filler, but quit generalizing. How many bad fillers in thread do you see vs how many
pardon me if I've been blunt, there's
Just no reason for people to call people cheap/insinuate negative things. I don't think "oh fillers for the sake of fillers Is the best thing ever" but I would try and convince anyone to utilize them to make the financial portion o the game lighter.
100 battle for skull pass goblins, is boring as all get out man. There's very little you can do aside from paint them differently, base them up differently etc, but them you break uniformity you may want to keep. Filler is a great wait to break up monotony, remove casualties quicker etc
Maybe it's a problem with the game, but as I said,'you have to deal with it one way o another.
I don't feel like people usin filler should be brow beaten for doing so. If you don't like filler, that's fine and dandy. If you then say I don't like fillers because you guys are cheapskates, well... It's natural for people to get offended when you do that,
You keep making assumption that all unit filler is destined to look like gak... Because why? Why would it matter if I didn't take my time to do tabletop level jobs on my 100 goblins? Does that mean I'm going to rush on my arachnarok? Makes no sense. Fillers can be used as centerpieces / dioramas and it doesn't make sense that just because I rushed to paint -100 3 point models, that I will also rush the center piece... That distracts you from their "3 foot" paint jobs?
Quit being rude ya jackass wasnt quite expressed until after makumba explained what his friends behaved like, but requiring filler be 100% playable models ie. no pony cart or stuff like that...
Again your issue is with a particular execution, as opposed to idea of filler it seems.
In any case, I hope when re reading thru thread you'll see that people weren't quite up in arms until we felt makumba was being held to an arbitrary and definately non-universal standards regarding composition of his unit fillers...
I have nothing but compassion for people who play hordes, or want to save money, or want to create a centerpiece.
Without fillers I would not be able to have an army or 2. Simply can't logically spend hard earned money on extra figs I DON'T need, when I can easily get by with what I already have.
Never once had someone complain about my fillers , and again I apologize if I have come off rude, not my intent.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Th0rh4mm3r wrote: I must be the only player in Midgard that thinks that unit fillers are terrible.
To me, if you are running a block of 20 spearmen, it should be 20 spearmen, not 12 with two 4 model fillers. If I have taken the time to collect, build and paint a unit, I would be ticked if someone showed up to play me with fillers in theirs
I don't play competitively. it just looks wrong to have a house moving around with your soldiers!
And this is what set me off, more than anything. I respect everyone's right to hold an opinion, but doesn't mean I have to agree with it. I think this expressed a believed superiority over ones use of fillers. It's a generalization.. Yeah the guy might not have put as much time and effort in if its done in a piss poor way... But what if its not? What if it is executed beautifully!? Added depth and character to army etc!? Would you not then concede he had put in as much time as you? What takes more time 1 aracknaraok spider or 100 goblins? Same point values, but easily 100 goblins if done to equal standards will take longer.
I agree some fillers look out of place such as houses etc. even my mushroom fillers or ones with goblins hangin from trees really only could be perceived as the location on board where tey are just so happening to have a tree or mushroom there, not nearly as well blended into a unit as say a quarrel breaking out, or a miscast etc.
Generalizations never helped me that I can recall, short of "OH GAK FLYING THINGS WITH STINGERS" making me feel like the Death Star.
edit: pardon the grammatical/spelling errors/sentences that just stop. I was on my phone, it was very late, and I was inebriated.
To each his own. I am all for converting units, like the aforementioned skeletons, to individually convert/model those shows your love for the army and the hobby.
I just don't feel it's appropriate to put a rock with a goblin on it and call that unit filler. That's terrain at that point.
I see no reason you couldn't even mount an appropriate number of models on a monster base to make set up faster, or removing casualties. When I looked at the unit I would see 20 goblins even if it's 12 individual and 2 sets of 4.
WYSIWIG if it's 20 dudes it should look like 20 dudes. Not 12 dudes with an outhouse.
Please don't hate me because I want to play with armies that look right.
Th0rh4mm3r wrote: To each his own. I am all for converting units, like the aforementioned skeletons, to individually convert/model those shows your love for the army and the hobby.
I just don't feel it's appropriate to put a rock with a goblin on it and call that unit filler. That's terrain at that point.
I see no reason you couldn't even mount an appropriate number of models on a monster base to make set up faster, or removing casualties. When I looked at the unit I would see 20 goblins even if it's 12 individual and 2 sets of 4.
WYSIWIG if it's 20 dudes it should look like 20 dudes. Not 12 dudes with an outhouse.
Please don't hate me because I want to play with armies that look right.
nothing but <3's brotha. just 2 things really
1. just remember $$$$ spend =/= love for your army and the hobby. it's just the amount of money you spent on something. 2. looking right is your opinion and we all are entitled to them! I just don't feel like one opinion is "right" or "better" but more of a matter of personal preference. I don't like to insinuate people are lazy, or cheap, personally. I wouldn't like to be called lazy, and would take offense. I however, would gleefully admit, that I exist on a level that is beyond cheap... (joking, i'm not that cheap. but I am very very cheap)
a lot of people aren't in positions to buy all the models for a particular army they want to play, but may have enough leftovers/remnants to fill out the force with fillers of gravestones, mushrooms, etc. Heck I am trying to build 3 armies out of scraps myself right now, so that when buddies come over, we have more variety of armies to use, and they don't have to load up their stuff. It's nice for trying to get new people into the hobby as well, as you have more armies variable to try and grab their interest with demo games... The cost of entry into hobby is a very large turn off for a lot of people, and if you show them well hey I got these $50 worth of dudes second hand, and spent $50 more to make fillers, and now have a 2500 point army... vs well I spent $500+ on that army over there... and to them, they may simply be shocked at cost of getting into game at $500 entry, while $100 is much more feasible. $100 with get you a 2 player starter set, or a battalion box, but it won't get you a tournament sized army retail from my experience, which is why I have always been on the side of people being able to use fillers.
I have a buddy who has 12,000 points of empire.. who hadn't ever built a unit filler for them... He's now making them half dozen at a time to expand his 12,000 points to closer to 20k so we can play some ridiculously large games.. At a certain point, fillers become a no brainer to me. Save $$$ to buy family member a vehicle, or expand my toy soldier collection to use once every blue moon? I hope that makes sense. I haven't tried to come across as callous or rude.
I just feel there are much better uses of our dollars than to spend needlessly so I feel I understand completely when a guy shows up with a filler taking up 1/3 - 1/2 his unit. Stuff is expensive. He may just want to really try out a horde of 50 wyches and not have the $ to spend on them.
I understand that not all filler is created equally, and is perfectly fine for the subject of criticism. I think the execution of a particular filler should be the focus of the criticism, instead of the artist's laziness/cheapness.
There are plenty of examples of filler that look great on a display/tourney tray that do not translate well to a game.
I too find it odd when a mausoleum is coming at me with a unit of ghouls, or whatnot. Not enough to really complain, but enough to make me notice.
Most filler that looks good on the table also looks good on display though. I like the previously mentioned white lion in a large group of White Lions and may see if we end up using it. ^^
I can understand not being fond of certain poorly made filler, but quit generalizing. How many bad fillers in thread do you see vs how many
But you can't put up a rule that says only good fillers are ok and bad are not. Fillers here are not accepted , not because people don't have the imagination or can't do it . There are people from Scibor and other studios playing around here. their models are on a level ,that I can't even imagine how much time and skill it takes to do them . They aren't accepted here , because if someone put a rule 1/4 unit made out of filler is ok , then all armies played by everyone would have 1/4 units made out of bases with just flock on them . If they didn't and tried to go the what looks good way , different shops would bann each other armies , same with different cities for larger tournaments. No fillers and no proxy is just a way to avoid the coke cans and "I put a skull on a base and it is my general" type of armies.
I can understand not being fond of certain poorly made filler, but quit generalizing. How many bad fillers in thread do you see vs how many
But you can't put up a rule that says only good fillers are ok and bad are not. Fillers here are not accepted , not because people don't have the imagination or can't do it . There are people from Scibor and other studios playing around here. their models are on a level ,that I can't even imagine how much time and skill it takes to do them . They aren't accepted here , because if someone put a rule 1/4 unit made out of filler is ok , then all armies played by everyone would have 1/4 units made out of bases with just flock on them . If they didn't and tried to go the what looks good way , different shops would bann each other armies , same with different cities for larger tournaments. No fillers and no proxy is just a way to avoid the coke cans and "I put a skull on a base and it is my general" type of armies.
I've never encountered coke cans aside from counting as drop pods by players experimenting with a list, which I was fine with.. I understand not wanting people to bring that stuff to a large tournament, and rules existing to that extent. I don't understand how casual play on the weekends at the friendly game store should be subject to such strict rules. I hear stories frequently of not being allowed to play with miniatures not bought at that store etc. I guess I should count my lucky stars my FLGS have all been cool as a cucumber.
I don't think there should be a ruler against fillers, good or bad. That's like making crappy paintjobs against the rules. If you are going to accept some, kinda have to accept them all. If 1/4 of a unit is the "rule", what would be so disastrous if someone just flocked bases? In big tournaments do you guys not use painting scores w/ prizes etc? that to me would be a reason to not cheap out on my unit filler.
In any event, it's a game, and everyone is entitled to play it how they like. I just don't agree with the idea people are just being lazy and cheap by using filler... You never know how many opponents you play who might not otherwise be in the hobby, if it weren't for penny stretching techniques. I try to include as many people as want to be involved in things as I can, more the merrier you know. Even if a few of them on their ways up have some crappy looking unit fillers.
just my 2c
Automatically Appended Next Post:
kirsanth wrote: There are plenty of examples of filler that look great on a display/tourney tray that do not translate well to a game.
I too find it odd when a mausoleum is coming at me with a unit of ghouls, or whatnot. Not enough to really complain, but enough to make me notice.
Most filler that looks good on the table also looks good on display though. I like the previously mentioned white lion in a large group of White Lions and may see if we end up using it. ^^
yeah I run into a problem with my giant squig coming from ground sometimes, quickly counting up the numbers of models in base to base because the 5 wide frontage isn't marked. should plant mushrooms 20mm on that side to help myself.. lol! suppose I could have cracks in rocks etc at the appropriate spots to to help mark where the divide is. Usually doesn't happen as its in middle of a bus and discarded, but if I reform to a horde I have to use its frontage, which is supremely annoying. a 25 goblin filler in a unit of 50 is a pain in the ass to work with. It was designed to go into a 10x10 100 strong horde.
didn't think of the idea until reading your comment, woohoo!
This thread inspired me to repurpose my great eagle bases to also be unit fillers. My bases were already magnetized, so I painted up some statue basing stuff and magnetized them to go on the bases. So now I have unit fillers for games I don't run great eagles.
I don't understand how casual play on the weekends at the friendly game store should be subject to such strict rules
but there are no special rules just for casuals . you can either play the normal stuff , which is what tournaments accept +/- FW stuff or you have to write pages long house rules , which no one will ever accept. Someone who already has a 2500pts army , is not suddenly going to be ok with other dudes I building armies for 700zl , when they paid 2000zl for it . The shops won't accept it either . every filler is fewer models sold and it gives , new players a bad example , bad as far as the shops view on being there to sell stuff goes. Tournaments will have a problem with them too , because while it is easy to spot and class a filler as awesome , it is much harder to do the opposite . Is two unconverted orks on a troll based awesome enough , how about a few grave stones instead of spirit hosts , snakes etc. If you say yes to one dude the other will force the judges to say yes to theirs too and if not , his whole community won't come to the next tournament . I have seen big 60man plus tournaments die , because two game groups fall out about a judge ruling .
Th0rh4mm3r wrote: I must be the only player in Midgard that thinks that unit fillers are terrible.
To me, if you are running a block of 20 spearmen, it should be 20 spearmen, not 12 with two 4 model fillers. If I have taken the time to collect, build and paint a unit, I would be ticked if someone showed up to play me with fillers in theirs
I don't play competitively. it just looks wrong to have a house moving around with your soldiers!
What if someone showed up with an army painted and built by someone else? Would that be a problem.
There are many reasons someone may want filler in their units both financial and creative. As long as it doesn't prevent you from knowing which models they are I dont really see the issue. You may not like models that look like that but they are not your models, you may not like their paint scheme either.
Makumba wrote: Someone who already has a 2500pts army , is not suddenly going to be ok with other dudes I building armies for 700zl , when they paid 2000zl for it.
Umm, why the hell not? What I do with my own money/time/effort is of no concern to other hobbyists, and vice versa. If I've spent full price on an all-GW plastic army painted vanilla colours and model-for-model WYSIWYG, and another player rocks up for a friendly with a creative, heavily customised, proxy/unit filler army that they've pulled off for half the price... I don't go all sour grapes on them, start b****** about it saying "hey, it's cost you less money than me for the same amount of points! Not cool, man, get outta here!" No, I say "woah! Cool army, dude! How'd you make that? What's that kitbash involve? What, Fantasy parts mixed with 40K parts? Cool! Wow, are those OOP metals from a couple of editions ago? Awesome, I love those sculpts. I'm really looking forward to playing you."
But hey, that's just me. Maybe I've got some crazy notion about this hobby being a social exercise involving fun and creativity, and not about how much money my opponent has or hasn't spent.
What I do with my own money/time/effort is of no concern to other hobbyists, and vice versa.
Because people are like that. If his identical army cost two or three times as much he won't let you play the same for cheaper. If he would let you play with it , it would mean many things and non of them nice. First of all if he paid more he is stupid . Second of all , if he didn't veto your army it means he isn't important enough in the community , which is worse then being stupid . Then there is the natural feeling that you don't want other to have it better.
"hey, it's cost you less money than me for the same amount of points! Not cool, man, get outta here!" No, I say "woah! Cool army, dude! How'd you make that? What's that kitbash involve? What, Fantasy parts mixed with 40K parts? Cool! Wow, are those OOP metals from a couple of editions ago? Awesome, I love those sculpts. I'm really looking forward to playing you."
Unless someone is a painter or a sculptor himself or work for a studio making commision armies , why would anyone care how the models look like. They have to be legal and make a good army . I can imagine seeing someone from Scibor Studios make his own models , but what do I care . I won't be able to sculpt like him , am not going to pay the western europe rates for models to buy them from him and if they are realy good converted and painted he won't even let me touch them .
I don't understand how casual play on the weekends at the friendly game store should be subject to such strict rules
but there are no special rules just for casuals . you can either play the normal stuff , which is what tournaments accept +/- FW stuff or you have to write pages long house rules , which no one will ever accept. Someone who already has a 2500pts army , is not suddenly going to be ok with other dudes I building armies for 700zl , when they paid 2000zl for it . The shops won't accept it either . every filler is fewer models sold and it gives , new players a bad example , bad as far as the shops view on being there to sell stuff goes. Tournaments will have a problem with them too , because while it is easy to spot and class a filler as awesome , it is much harder to do the opposite . Is two unconverted orks on a troll based awesome enough , how about a few grave stones instead of spirit hosts , snakes etc. If you say yes to one dude the other will force the judges to say yes to theirs too and if not , his whole community won't come to the next tournament . I have seen big 60man plus tournaments die , because two game groups fall out about a judge ruling .
1) Firstly, the fact that another hobbyist has a similar army to you and had constructed it for a lower amount of money is most definitely not a reason to go off on one at them. I would look down very unfavourably on anyone who had the nerve to do so. It's your own fault for not being creative enough, or for not putting the effort in to think and convert. If I were someone who would do this, I'd be ashamed. If you went to the first insurance company you could think of and get your car insured for a certain amount and your mate does lots of research and gets his for cheaper (assuming you have identical/similar cars), there's no way you'd have a rant about it at him.
2) It probably depends on your shop owner, but I've taken in unit fillers to my local GW plenty of times and had no complaints, only compliments. I'm not using non-GW, I'm still giving money to his company (unless I buy from eBay - though that's a different matter) to make the fillers. New players aren't likely to attempt unit fillers.
3) As with everything in a tournament, it depends on the rulings made by your TO. If your TO says no fillers, then there's no fillers. But I've never heard of a tournament not allowing them and, usually, in my experience, the armies that take "Best Army" are ones with awesome fillers in.
I don't understand how casual play on the weekends at the friendly game store should be subject to such strict rules
but there are no special rules just for casuals . you can either play the normal stuff , which is what tournaments accept +/- FW stuff or you have to write pages long house rules , which no one will ever accept. Someone who already has a 2500pts army , is not suddenly going to be ok with other dudes I building armies for 700zl , when they paid 2000zl for it . The shops won't accept it either . every filler is fewer models sold and it gives , new players a bad example , bad as far as the shops view on being there to sell stuff goes. Tournaments will have a problem with them too , because while it is easy to spot and class a filler as awesome , it is much harder to do the opposite . Is two unconverted orks on a troll based awesome enough , how about a few grave stones instead of spirit hosts , snakes etc. If you say yes to one dude the other will force the judges to say yes to theirs too and if not , his whole community won't come to the next tournament . I have seen big 60man plus tournaments die , because two game groups fall out about a judge ruling .
Mak, your store and area is hardly the norm, and can't really judge anyone else's actions as being a bad example for new players, when you look at their current policies (at least their current policies according to you on here).
Also
or you have to write pages long house rules , which no one will ever accept.
Your area/store has heaps of house rules. That you all apparently accept. Ridiculous house rules that wouldn't fly if the community wasn't so small and limited there.
And I have to agree that looking down on another player because they haven't spent as much as you is just laughable.
Makumba wrote: Because people are like that. If his identical army cost two or three times as much he won't let you play the same for cheaper. If he would let you play with it , it would mean many things and non of them nice. First of all if he paid more he is stupid . Second of all , if he didn't veto your army it means he isn't important enough in the community , which is worse then being stupid . Then there is the natural feeling that you don't want other to have it better.
What the hell are you even talking about?
"he won't let you play the same for cheaper" ...what? Let me tell you something, "he" can't do jack about what I collect or how much I spend doing it. If "he" thinks "he" has that sort of power over me when it comes to a hobby meant for fun, then "he" is living on a different planet.
Seriously? We are talking about the same thing here, right? This is dakkadakka? I haven't wandered into some weird forum about tax evasion or some such gak...?
Im not opposed to unit fillers because they cost less. I am opposed because 90% of the ones i see are terrain, not a fighting unit.
The white lions from the chariot in with a unit of white lions is cool. Grave stones with skeletons coming out of the ground is cool
Houses, rocks, trees, statues, caves, walls...these are all terrain. They make cool objectives and look good on the display board but are not good unit filler imo.
Cost doesnt come in to it for me. I can see how it does for other people. I just think there should be some effort in it
Once again, I'd note that disliking someone's unit filler does not have to be the sign of a classist philistine that feels the need to be insulting because they don't understand art.
If someone's saying your unit fillers are tacky or poorly executed, or don't make much sense in their content, maybe that's because the person did a bad job and made bad unit fillers.
Or can't people critique art anymore because they might hurt someone's feelings?
Ailaros wrote: Once again, I'd note that disliking someone's unit filler does not have to be the sign of a classist philistine that feels the need to be insulting because they don't understand art.
If someone's saying your unit fillers are tacky or poorly executed, or don't make much sense in their content, maybe that's because the person did a bad job and made bad unit fillers.
Or can't people critique art anymore because they might hurt someone's feelings?
I think people aren't reacting poorly to those who are saying that they dislike seeing ghouls drag around buildings. I think they are reacting badly to people like Mak who say things like this
Makumba wrote: Because people are like that. If his identical army cost two or three times as much he won't let you play the same for cheaper. If he would let you play with it , it would mean many things and non of them nice. First of all if he paid more he is stupid . Second of all , if he didn't veto your army it means he isn't important enough in the community , which is worse then being stupid . Then there is the natural feeling that you don't want other to have it better.
That is what is getting the really forceful backlask, not the users who share the view of th0rh4mm3r and co.
What I do with my own money/time/effort is of no concern to other hobbyists, and vice versa.
Because people are like that. If his identical army cost two or three times as much he won't let you play the same for cheaper. If he would let you play with it , it would mean many things and non of them nice. First of all if he paid more he is stupid . Second of all , if he didn't veto your army it means he isn't important enough in the community , which is worse then being stupid . Then there is the natural feeling that you don't want other to have it better.
"hey, it's cost you less money than me for the same amount of points! Not cool, man, get outta here!" No, I say "woah! Cool army, dude! How'd you make that? What's that kitbash involve? What, Fantasy parts mixed with 40K parts? Cool! Wow, are those OOP metals from a couple of editions ago? Awesome, I love those sculpts. I'm really looking forward to playing you."
Unless someone is a painter or a sculptor himself or work for a studio making commision armies , why would anyone care how the models look like. They have to be legal and make a good army . I can imagine seeing someone from Scibor Studios make his own models , but what do I care . I won't be able to sculpt like him , am not going to pay the western europe rates for models to buy them from him and if they are realy good converted and painted he won't even let me touch them .
This is so ridiculous.
So for point number 1 you should I presume also be against anyone who bought the models second hand, or for less than full GW price?
For point number 2 it wouldn't make a difference to his standing in the community, maybe he didn't veto the army because he is not a petty idiot who for some reason has there own ego heavily affected by who paid the most for their toy soldiers.
So for point number 1 you should I presume also be against anyone who bought the models second hand, or for less than full GW price?
We had people being disallowed to buy table time , because their warmachine/w40k/WFB armies weren't bought at the store .
it wouldn't make a difference to his standing in the community, maybe he didn't veto the army because he is not a petty idiot who for some reason has there own ego heavily affected by who paid the most for their toy soldiers.
I don't know how 50 years of communism treated you , but here if someone gets something cheaper then you and it is the same thing , then you end up a fool . And I have yet see someone buy a high cost army , because he was effected by someone elses ego and not their own.
One of the things which most attracts me to WHFB is the ability to make up cool unit fillers. I've seen lots of awesome Orc fillers, with huge fights, building impromptu battlefield barricades, etc.
When I briefly had a VC army, I modelled loads of skeletons climbing out of the ground; just using the spare parts from the skeleton kits enabled me to build twice as many skeletons as you would otherwise using this method before you even start building up cool mini-dioramas to act as fillers.
So for point number 1 you should I presume also be against anyone who bought the models second hand, or for less than full GW price?
We had people being disallowed to buy table time , because their warmachine/w40k/WFB armies weren't bought at the store .
it wouldn't make a difference to his standing in the community, maybe he didn't veto the army because he is not a petty idiot who for some reason has there own ego heavily affected by who paid the most for their toy soldiers.
I don't know how 50 years of communism treated you , but here if someone gets something cheaper then you and it is the same thing , then you end up a fool . And I have yet see someone buy a high cost army , because he was effected by someone else's ego and not their own.
I have no idea what you are trying to say here. If you cant handle the fact someone got something for cheaper than you then that is your own ego problem. There are many reasons that someone can get something cheaper some of which are timing and opportunity. The cost of someone elses army has no bearing on the cost of your own, what the hell has communism got to do with this? Your arguments are nonsensical and sound like the rantings of someone who is very insecure, about the cost of toy soldiers of all things.
Also by refusing to allow people (who have to pay for table time) to not use armies not bought in store is a great way to alienate new customers to the store. I understand not wanting to let people play who never ever purchase in store and keep showing up with new models bought elsewhere but if you are not allowed to play models not bought there thats just ridiculous. If that is your stores policy I would never play there. I would also never play with people who feel they have to some how prove their standing in the community by preventing others from playing.
By your logic people who buy computer games full price should refuse to play multiplayer with anyone who got it on sale.
Makumba wrote: ...if he didn't veto your army it means he isn't important enough in the community , which is worse then being stupid.
You guys veto each other's armies? Or more to the point, only SOME of you are "important enough in the community" to be allowed to veto someone else's army, and the rest have to just take it?
"Sorry, dude, I'm vetoing your dwarf gunline...."
"Nope, you can't play your Slann, I'm vetoing it...."
"I'm playing a big deathstar so I'm vetoing all your chaff; you can only have big blocks of suck so I get a cheap win...."
You guys sound like a whole lot of fun to game with.... not.
Makumba wrote: ...if he didn't veto your army it means he isn't important enough in the community , which is worse then being stupid.
You guys veto each other's armies? Or more to the point, only SOME of you are "important enough in the community" to be allowed to veto someone else's army, and the rest have to just take it?
"Sorry, dude, I'm vetoing your dwarf gunline...."
"Nope, you can't play your Slann, I'm vetoing it...."
"I'm playing a big deathstar so I'm vetoing all your chaff; you can only have big blocks of suck so I get a cheap win...."
You guys sound like a whole lot of fun to game with.... not.
Acting like an donkey-cave is the best way to assert your Alpha Male gaming status.
I personally like to veto all armies bought before GW price rises to ensure no one has bought cheaper units than me.
So for point number 1 you should I presume also be against anyone who bought the models second hand, or for less than full GW price?
We had people being disallowed to buy table time , because their warmachine/w40k/WFB armies weren't bought at the store .
it wouldn't make a difference to his standing in the community, maybe he didn't veto the army because he is not a petty idiot who for some reason has there own ego heavily affected by who paid the most for their toy soldiers.
I don't know how 50 years of communism treated you , but here if someone gets something cheaper then you and it is the same thing , then you end up a fool . And I have yet see someone buy a high cost army , because he was effected by someone elses ego and not their own.
This is hilarious. You and your gaming group sounds like plugs. Have fun with that...
You would think that the modelers at gw painting for white dwarf just get a bunch of free models why would they need fillers.
But really I have skaven and don't use filler but I probably should it would save money, but i like when I have a big block of 70 slaves and im taking off handfuls at a time during combats...kind of enjoyable to watch them die (these warpstones and skavenbrew must be going straight to my head)
Not the best at the computer stuff.
vehicle, or expand my toy soldier collection to use once every blue moon? I hope that makes sense. I haven't tried to come across as callous or rude.
