So the new codex is out.

Some things got toned down, somethings got cheaper, some things improved.
St. Celestine in typical GW fashion went from auto take to maybe take
Jacobus - got hella better, his weapon got a little better, he still has the same buffs to squads, but also while in CC can roll a leadership test and then choose from 3 options - which is really nice

I think Cannonesses have become much more viable with the relic choices

I think the guard squads for both cannoness and priests are appealing now... I think with St. Celestine's power getting nerfed she will be taken less, people may say, but she gets all her wounds back, but 1st she has to pass a leadership test (which is not autosuccess) then can be instagibbed again. She is only T3 and without eternal warrior I think she is really fragile... If they would have given her EW I think the decrease in the amount of times she could get back up nerf would be more acceptable

I think Immolators became a better option. Rhinos are more for the sisters - I am guessing this is tax for the 6up invuln.

Adamantium will is REALLY nice - so everyone has a 5up deny the witch....

What is notibly lacking is NO SKYFIRE options... yikes - I thought maybe one of the heavy supports would get it, but no

I think the warlord traits are nice and the relics, I just don't think they went down enough in price to make them competitive - not at T3.. Just my opinion what are yours... will post more specifics later.

Jacobus... got nerfed massively.

His shotgun is exactly the same. His Banner of Sanctity is pretty useless now - it duplicates other easily gained abilities and no longer grants +1A or FnP - and without the reroll to faith points and a +10 point tax, he's just not worth it over a regular Priest.

Not that the Battle Conclave is quite so worth it any more now that they can only have swords and can't get Feel No Pain.

Adamantium Will is pretty pointless, only Chaos use psi-powers as anything except buff spells.

Canoness is more awesome again. Sororitas Command Squad is a whole new unit, it's so much better. They get the +1 Attack banner, only it not only affects every unit within 12", it also lets them reroll Fear, Pinning and Morale tests. They can take power weapons and pistols now, too, and you don't have to take a Dialogous (but if you do, she can carry a Relic and grants a flat reroll to faith tests within 12").

The Condemnor Boltgun is pretty crazy as the girls can mass it with a Canoness and a Command Squad. 6 Condemnor shots can kill most of the psychic MCs with one volley and can wreak havoc among the psychic buffer characters (Sorcerers, Librarians, Farseers).

Bad thing is that I don't think it has any AP

I guess I don't agree about Jacobus... yes you can buy some of the extras but why pay for it if you can have it with one model - add a cannoness with EW and rosarius and put in a CC squad and it isn't terrible..

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
Bad thing is that I don't think it has any AP

It doesn't matter because it only needs to hit the psyker or his unit and the psyker suffers a perils of the warp. That's, like, the most awesome thing since the mindshackle scarabs !

I don't agree with Adamantium Will, there is plenty out there that affect the enemy, not just chaos - Eldar, SM, IG psychers, CSM

Yes, but Eiluj... when was the last time you saw any of those armies use those powers?

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Yes, but Eiluj... when was the last time you saw any of those armies use those powers?

I agree it with you and see your point, however as a big Eldar player myself - go for guide, doom and fortune, but many games I can not get them and will use things like doom, Eldritch storm and Misfortune frequently if I get them
For my Nids I will use them every game - Enfeeble, life leech etc depending on the other powers I get, but I see your point too..

Adamantium Will was a must-have simply because it's a rather important part of the army's "totally incorruptible" theme and because it got stolen from us with the WD Minidex.
I kind of miss that we don't have it apply against friendly psykers and their benign effects too, though. That was rather characterful.

The Condemnor boltgun (aka bolter-stake crossbow in 3E) we already had before received a nice buff in that it is 5 points cheaper and only needs to hit rather than to wound, compared to the WD Minidex. It actually is a viable, if not rather attractive option now, when you know there is even just a chance that there's a psyker in the other army.

I am loving that the Exorcist is Toughness 13, has 11 Wounds and an Initiative of 10. They are really taking that everyone gets a monstrous creature thing to the extreme.

Similar for the Penitent Engine.
Toughness 11, 11 Wounds, and Initiative 10.

Also they both have armor saves of 3. Not 3+ mind you, they only make the armor save if you roll a 3 exactly.

lol, nicely caught, Danny. It's only the Reference section, but... lol.

 Dannyevilguy wrote:

Also they both have armor saves of 3. Not 3+ mind you, they only make the armor save if you roll a 3 exactly.

So do I have to have AP3 to deny this save, or will AP6 do? And what do Grav Guns wound it on?

I really want to know, because it's going to be important if I'm going to take down all those wounds....

So in the Acts of Faith rules explanation it says they can be used before they act in a phase "I.E. immediately before it moves in the Movement phase..."

I cannot find any Acts of Faith that take effect in the movement phase? Am I blind?

The army is finished. Celestine can only be rez'ed once, Uriah is now only useful during assault, each unit can only use one AoF per game.....and the list goes on. GW has been trying to get rid of the SoB for years, and now they are not even useful allies. GW finally won. I can only hope that I can sell my units on eBay. Sad.

salgod wrote:
The army is finished. Celestine can only be rez'ed once, Uriah is now only useful during assault, each unit can only use one AoF per game.....and the list goes on. GW has been trying to get rid of the SoB for years, and now they are not even useful allies. GW finally won. I can only hope that I can sell my units on eBay. Sad.

Drama.

I for one am glad the SCs got reigned in. An army should not be built around special snowflake characters, especially when they are not even representative of the army itself. Custom HQs ftw.
Canoness needs more love - and she got it! <3

 Dannyevilguy wrote:
So in the Acts of Faith rules explanation it says they can be used before they act in a phase "I.E. immediately before it moves in the Movement phase..."

I cannot find any Acts of Faith that take effect in the movement phase? Am I blind?

There aren't any that I noticed either, but I suspect that's for possible future units if GW sticks with this model for AoF.

Which I really hope they don't.

On the upside:

Most units are cheaper, letting you take more.

Units have more access to wargear in general. In specific, new wargear make Canonesses useful again (yay!), such as the Blade of Admonition (power weapon that's +2 strength), and new rules makes Sororitas Command Squads heavily customizable (can give all the celestians in the squad power weapons, for example), plus more stuff for VSSs.

Battle Sister Squads can be taken in units of five. Dominion Squads can have four special weapons in a squad of five, and their Meltaguns can be made to ignore cover (which is VERY useful against certain vehicles). Immolators can be taken for all squads, letting you take immolators for battle sister squads even if you have twenty members in the squad (they just can't enter it). Repentia can have a transport, though we have no assault transports so you have to be careful with them.

All in all, I'd say it's arguably better than what we had before.

I'm not familiar with GWs e-pubs how long does it take them to to come out with a finished product after this seeming "beta" release? I would like my Hand Flamers to have a profile please

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Yes, but Eiluj... when was the last time you saw any of those armies use those powers?

Nids often use witchfire or cast a malediction.

Demons with nova's can be very mean.

Vanilla marines without going ultra are limited to mostly offensive spells.

Getting puppet master is a GREAT way to knock a wave serpent out of the game.

Space wolves with jaws are still mean.

So just out of curiosity, how does the Contemptor Boltgun do if it was shooting at, say, grey knights?

Are those melee celestians str 4 , because str3 power weappons kind of a suck . Sad to here that the saint was nerfed was thinking about here as a tar pit unit , now she just dies from everything it aint worth to take her.

On the bright side can't wait to tell my friend that SoB can get EW , just like marines and his csm can't.

 Bookwrack wrote:
So just out of curiosity, how does the Contemptor Boltgun do if it was shooting at, say, grey knights?

If it fires at a unit then they suffer one perils for each hit. So you hit them three times with condemnors and the Judicator plus two Grey Knights die. If you hit a squad that has a Librarian then both the unit and the librarian suffer perils separately because the unit counts as one psyker and the joined librarian counts as another psyker. So you hit three times with condemnors, the Judicator and two Grey Knights leaves the battlefield then the Libarian follows them too.

Or at least that's my interpretation .

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Bookwrack wrote:
So just out of curiosity, how does the Contemptor Boltgun do if it was shooting at, say, grey knights?

If it fires at a unit then they suffer one perils for each hit. So you hit them three times with condemnors and the Judicator plus two Grey Knights die. If you hit a squad that has a Librarian then both the unit and the librarian suffer perils separately because the unit counts as one psyker and the joined librarian counts as another psyker. So you hit three times with condemnors, the Judicator and two Grey Knights leaves the battlefield then the Libarian follows them too.

Or at least that's my interpretation .

I really like this gun. I wish necrons had it

I'd be willing to bet that the Condemnor is going to be FAQ'd. A weapon that has to hit a Seer Council once to kill all the Warlocks (without even rolling to wound!) is one of the most situationally broken items that has ever existed.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I'd be willing to bet that the Condemnor is going to be FAQ'd. A weapon that has to hit a Seer Council once to kill all the Warlocks (without even rolling to wound!) is one of the most situationally broken items that has ever existed.

Although, as ridiculous as it is, it's also very situational. Against 2/3 of the armies out there, you're spending 10 points on essentially a bolter shot. Not to mention that killing a massive deathstar in a single shot is insane...but so is a unit containing 10+ individual psykers. I don't think it's any worse than Mindshackle Scarabs forcing a 300 point monstrous creature to kill itself.

As for +1 Deny the Witch. It's not great, but it's a free bonus. Misfortune, Enfeeble, Hallucination, Psychic Shriek, Terrify, Flickering Fire, Doom, Jaws, etc...Not worthless either.

Siphen wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I'd be willing to bet that the Condemnor is going to be FAQ'd. A weapon that has to hit a Seer Council once to kill all the Warlocks (without even rolling to wound!) is one of the most situationally broken items that has ever existed.

Although, as ridiculous as it is, it's also very situational. Against 2/3 of the armies out there, you're spending 10 points on essentially a bolter shot. Not to mention that killing a massive deathstar in a single shot is insane...but so is a unit containing 10+ individual psykers. I don't think it's any worse than Mindshackle Scarabs forcing a 300 point monstrous creature to kill itself.

Not to mention that the Condemnor is a one-shot weapon .

I thought that the psy bolt had to wound before it caused a perils? I know that it is AP - so did not think it was that great, but if it only has to hit, holy cow! Will have to look tonight when have rules in front of me!

If they would have made Saint Celestine EW then I think the nerf would be fair, but so many things instakill T3 creatures that her power is really not valuable

 Lynata wrote:
Custom HQs ftw.

Because you really feel like you can customize your canoness ? Yeah, canoness with jump pack, canoness with bike, tanky canoness with artificer armor and storm shield, support canoness with wargear that buff nearby unit… oh, wait, no, you can't. You will have a canoness with a rosarius, an eviscerator and then you get to choose one relic. If you don't pick Eternal Warrior, there are huge chances you'll get instakilled by pretty much every other combat character in the game. Cool !

 Melissia wrote:
Most units are cheaper, letting you take more.

My basic sisters will be more expensive if I keep the same layout, my dominions without simulacrum too, my HB retributors cost so much more, Celestine cost more, my conclave cost the same, Uriah cost more, my rhinos cost more, my seraphims cost more. My exorcist cost less, and my dominions with simulacrum cost 5 point less, but now the simulacrum is totally useless because they use flamethrower.
Units are cheaper if you don't outfit them the same way as you used to do.

 Melissia wrote:
In specific, new wargear make Canonesses useful again (yay!), such as the Blade of Admonition (power weapon that's +2 strength)

Seriously ? Marines have the same, except as a regular wargear and they get better relics. We are still looking at a T3 model, with nothing good in it's profile. You won't slay any monstruous creature or any enemy character with it.

Well I am determined to play them. I doubt I will play them competively. It is just a little annoying, if you are going to take the time GW why make them worse. Don't you want people to play them!?

Oh well, I intend to play them... It is nice at least now that we can run 5 woman troop squads now instead of the manditory 10.... I was really hoping for something sky fire, an easy fix would have been to give one of the heavy supports skyfire or even skyfire for one turn (a power), but alas no.... If you want to play competitively play IG or SM, not sisters...

 Dannyevilguy wrote:
I am loving that the Exorcist is Toughness 13, has 11 Wounds and an Initiative of 10. They are really taking that everyone gets a monstrous creature thing to the extreme.

Similar for the Penitent Engine.
Toughness 11, 11 Wounds, and Initiative 10.

Also they both have armor saves of 3. Not 3+ mind you, they only make the armor save if you roll a 3 exactly.

Ahh good old standard GW editing protocols still in use.

Skriekr

I think people are overrating the condemnor gun already.

1) It is one shot only. Then regular bolter for the rest of the game.

2) Perils doesn't mean auto kill for multi-wound psykers. Daemons FMCs will have to be grounded and then you will have to spam the gun to knock one out and flying circus lists usually have 3-4. That's a lot more effort than if SoB had just gotten something with Skyfire.

3) Eldar can still mitigate perils with Ghosthelm. .

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Most units are cheaper, letting you take more.

My basic sisters will be more expensive if I keep the same layout, my dominions without simulacrum too, my HB retributors cost so much more, Celestine cost more, my conclave cost the same, Uriah cost more, my rhinos cost more, my seraphims cost more. My exorcist cost less, and my dominions with simulacrum cost 5 point less, but now the simulacrum is totally useless because they use flamethrower.
Units are cheaper if you don't outfit them the same way as you used to do.

New books and updates means you can't play units exactly the same way you used to. This is a constant of 40k. You cannot expect when an edition changes or a new book (or update) drops to play your lists exactly the same.

Yes, if you want to play the exact same list you did pre-update in the exact same way, with the exact same tactics than this new book is a nerf to that list.

Guess what? That happens to everyone.
I'm not mad that I can't field 60 redemptionists with 15 eviscerators and have them walk through an entire turn or two of fire and still assault you.
I'm not mad that my Axes of Retribution (which were on all my superiors) had to be trimmed off and put in the bits box.
I'm not mad that all my superiors have books on top of their backpacks to represent the BOSL and they can't all take it anymore.
Why? Because the book changed, I adapted and made new lists.

That isn't nerfing, that is changing. Now if the power level of the book dropped, that would be a nerf.

I think petre has a good handle the whole thing. We can bemoan what we lost, but the fact is that we gained a lot too. This isn't a straight nerf, it's at least a complicated matter and it'll take a bit to figure out what to play now. I'm still looking at things and scratching my head. Guess it's time to start sitting down and looking at building lists and seeing what they look like then.

It's a straight nerf if you think that the only way for Sisters to win is by comboing the Immortal Warlord with the Jacobus Bomb.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I think petre has a good handle the whole thing. We can bemoan what we lost, but the fact is that we gained a lot too. This isn't a straight nerf, it's at least a complicated matter and it'll take a bit to figure out what to play now. I'm still looking at things and scratching my head. Guess it's time to start sitting down and looking at building lists and seeing what they look like then.

Play enough 40k and you get well used to it. Every edition and new codex, I have a snap off bits and fit on new bits party. Repaint a bunch of dudes, strip some others , move some stuff to the 'not used' shelf, dust some other stuff off. This is just the way it is.

 pretre wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I think petre has a good handle the whole thing. We can bemoan what we lost, but the fact is that we gained a lot too. This isn't a straight nerf, it's at least a complicated matter and it'll take a bit to figure out what to play now. I'm still looking at things and scratching my head. Guess it's time to start sitting down and looking at building lists and seeing what they look like then.

Play enough 40k and you get well used to it. Every edition and new codex, I have a snap off bits and fit on new bits party. Repaint a bunch of dudes, strip some others , move some stuff to the 'not used' shelf, dust some other stuff off. This is just the way it is.

I'm used to things change, it's just ekeing out what works for me that takes me a little time.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I'm used to things change, it's just ekeing out what works for me that takes me a little time.

Yeah, definitely. I'm going to try to get a game in this weekend with the 40 arco list and see how that goes.

It's weird not being the most cynical person in the thread for once. I... kind of like the new codex? the changes made it much better than the 5th edition WD dex, and I might even try to get back in to the game because of it.

I kind of want to take a couple full sized units of Arcos to screen my army with. But that might be better for foot-horde Sisters.

I like them for under 400pts , I can get a lot of cheap meltas in rhinos ,the fact the some scout and can potentialy ignore cover is just a bonus .

 pretre wrote:
New books and updates means you can't play units exactly the same way you used to.

It's true. But still, I don't think the global change has been toward lower point cost per model. Some models went down (most notably arcoflagellants, heavy flamers, Exorcist and, above all, priests), other went up (most notably Sister Superior Veteran, rhinos, heavy bolter, and above all Celestine), but I don't feel like I will field more model. I tried a list, and it has actually the very same number of models, even though not with the same repartition or wargear.
Too bad I won't get the chance to play it in the few next weeks.

 pretre wrote:
Play enough 40k and you get well used to it. Every edition and new codex, I have a snap off bits and fit on new bits party. Repaint a bunch of dudes, strip some others , move some stuff to the 'not used' shelf, dust some other stuff off. This is just the way it is.

Well, it's just my second codex change, even though I've been playing 40k for 9 years .

 Melissia wrote:
It's weird not being the most cynical person in the thread for once.

That's because I'm around !

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 pretre wrote:
New books and updates means you can't play units exactly the same way you used to.

It's true. But still, I don't think the global change has been toward lower point cost per model. Some models went down (most notably arcoflagellants, heavy flamers, Exorcist and, above all, priests), other went up (most notably Sister Superior Veteran, rhinos, heavy bolter, and above all Celestine), but I don't feel like I will field more model. I tried a list, and it has actually the very same number of models, even though not with the same repartition or wargear.
Too bad I won't get the chance to play it in the few next weeks.

Not everything is about cost though. Even if your cost stays the same or drops, if your role changes that's a change in the type of list you can field. Simply taking a WD list and making it with the Digital dex is not going to work out too well.

You need to start over and build new lists.

I agree every codex things change 4th edition nids to 5th then 6th,

But I do think overall Sisters has always been a hard one to compete with and I think this codex make it harder. I understand that lists change, but I think as a whole the sisters got worse.. but I am just being cynical I guess. Will I still play them? yes

Thanks for all the feedback guys

People said that about the White Dwarf dex though and I proved them wrong.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 pretre wrote:
New books and updates means you can't play units exactly the same way you used to.

It's true. But still, I don't think the global change has been toward lower point cost per model. Some models went down (most notably arcoflagellants, heavy flamers, Exorcist and, above all, priests), other went up (most notably Sister Superior Veteran, rhinos, heavy bolter, and above all Celestine), but I don't feel like I will field more model. I tried a list, and it has actually the very same number of models, even though not with the same repartition or wargear.
Too bad I won't get the chance to play it in the few next weeks.

Want to know a secret?

The Veteran upgrade on the Superior isn't worth it. She can take a combi-weapon without it, and it's just a +1 attack +1 Ld bonus... considering that for the price of four Veterans, you can get rerolls to Morale, Fear and Pinning tests, it's really not that good an upgrade on a shooty squad.

Eiliuj is a very negative person. I think he's an Eldar spy sent to demoralise us.

Veteran Superior is occasionally useful for units that need to make their faith check reliably. (Dominions, is my thought)

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 pretre wrote:
New books and updates means you can't play units exactly the same way you used to.

It's true. But still, I don't think the global change has been toward lower point cost per model. Some models went down (most notably arcoflagellants, heavy flamers, Exorcist and, above all, priests), other went up (most notably Sister Superior Veteran, rhinos, heavy bolter, and above all Celestine), but I don't feel like I will field more model. I tried a list, and it has actually the very same number of models, even though not with the same repartition or wargear.
Too bad I won't get the chance to play it in the few next weeks.

Want to know a secret?

The Veteran upgrade on the Superior isn't worth it. She can take a combi-weapon without it, and it's just a +1 attack +1 Ld bonus... considering that for the price of four Veterans, you can get rerolls to Morale, Fear and Pinning tests, it's really not that good an upgrade on a shooty squad.

Eiliuj is a very negative person. I think he's an Eldar spy sent to demoralise us.

Probably still mad about those Warp Spiders. I can't imagine getting run over by an Immolator is good for Spirit Stones.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 pretre wrote:
New books and updates means you can't play units exactly the same way you used to.

It's true. But still, I don't think the global change has been toward lower point cost per model. Some models went down (most notably arcoflagellants, heavy flamers, Exorcist and, above all, priests), other went up (most notably Sister Superior Veteran, rhinos, heavy bolter, and above all Celestine), but I don't feel like I will field more model. I tried a list, and it has actually the very same number of models, even though not with the same repartition or wargear.
Too bad I won't get the chance to play it in the few next weeks.

Want to know a secret?

The Veteran upgrade on the Superior isn't worth it. She can take a combi-weapon without it, and it's just a +1 attack +1 Ld bonus... considering that for the price of four Veterans, you can get rerolls to Morale, Fear and Pinning tests, it's really not that good an upgrade on a shooty squad.

Eiliuj is a very negative person. I think he's an Eldar spy sent to demoralise us.

How am I such a negative person?

My first love is to the Eldar, so in a way I guess I am a spy....
Those warp spiders did not like getting flamed and run over by the immolator, but their pride prevented them from seeing the threat... Though that 3up armour should have saved a few of them... Nice reference to the the paragraph in there
Did anyone notice that a certain Priest is no longer in the codex army list, but he got a little side paragraph next to Jacobus?

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
Did anyone notice that a certain Priest is no longer in the codex army list, but he got a little side paragraph next to Jacobus?

Yeah, there's been a lot of back and forth on that one. No concrete info but a lot of theories.

Yeah, we all noticed Kyrinov is gone. I think it's in reaction to his mold not getting renewed.

I mean Eldrad got killed off and he is still in all the codexes

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
I mean Eldrad got killed off and he is still in all the codexes

Most of the theories have more to do with the actual physical model being retired and not the fluff character.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Yeah, we all noticed Kyrinov is gone. I think it's in reaction to his mold not getting renewed.

What does that mean? GW owns all the molds don't they? Why would they stop making a character... I was looking forward to seeing what they did with him

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Yeah, we all noticed Kyrinov is gone. I think it's in reaction to his mold not getting renewed.

What does that mean? GW owns all the molds don't they? Why would they stop making a character... I was looking forward to seeing what they did with him

Molds cost money and ehen they wear out they have to consider to make a new one or not. If they plan on putting Sisters out in full plastic then they will likely not renew molds unless they have too (Bolter Sisters for instance) so they don't waste money on something they won't use for its full lifespan.

That is speclation though.

pretre wrote:Veteran Superior is occasionally useful for units that need to make their faith check reliably. (Dominions, is my thought)

In a way, that even fits to the fluff. Dominions are more elite than rank and file Battle Sisters. VSS should never have been regarded as "the standard" - that was a poor representation of how an Order is run.

Now it feels more like an option, and you having to decide where to apply a Veteran's expertise precisely - or just living with the consequences of running a smaller, but more experienced army.

ClockworkZion wrote:I think petre has a good handle the whole thing. We can bemoan what we lost, but the fact is that we gained a lot too. This isn't a straight nerf, it's at least a complicated matter and it'll take a bit to figure out what to play now.

Yeah. I don't like all the changes, and I think the new Acts of Faith are the worst version of them we ever had (which is a bit critical, given that they are a rather important mechanic of the army), but all in all I still think that this list is better than the 5E Minidex. Getting back most of the wargear we lost alone is worth a lot, and together with the changes to the Command Squad it makes the Canoness viable again. <3

D6Damager wrote:I think people are overrating the condemnor gun already.

The biggest hype on the net seems to come from those that are utterly unaware of it not being a new piece of gear, and I agree that the the craziest comments about "omg wicked OP!" do overrate it. Still, with the lower point cost and the fact you only need to hit, not even wound, to trigger Perils is a huge change that will surely make this weapon something that is actually picked by people, unlike previously.

Furyou Miko wrote:

Is ... is that a beard?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Yeah, we all noticed Kyrinov is gone. I think it's in reaction to his mold not getting renewed.

What does that mean? GW owns all the molds don't they? Why would they stop making a character... I was looking forward to seeing what they did with him

Molds cost money and ehen they wear out they have to consider to make a new one or not. If they plan on putting Sisters out in full plastic then they will likely not renew molds unless they have too (Bolter Sisters for instance) so they don't waste money on something they won't use for its full lifespan.

That is speclation though.

Thanks for the info. I had not thought of that, thank you for taking the time to explain it... In my ignorance I thought once you had a mold, it did not have to be redone. I am glad I have a Kyrinov then, but will not get to use him now...

 Lynata wrote:
I think the new Acts of Faith are the worst version of them we ever had (which is a bit critical, given that they are a rather important mechanic of the army),

Start of 3rd edition black book rules. That was the worst.

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Yeah, we all noticed Kyrinov is gone. I think it's in reaction to his mold not getting renewed.

What does that mean? GW owns all the molds don't they? Why would they stop making a character... I was looking forward to seeing what they did with him

Molds cost money and ehen they wear out they have to consider to make a new one or not. If they plan on putting Sisters out in full plastic then they will likely not renew molds unless they have too (Bolter Sisters for instance) so they don't waste money on something they won't use for its full lifespan.

That is speclation though.

Thanks for the info. I had not thought of that, thank you for taking the time to explain it... In my ignorance I thought once you had a mold, it did not have to be redone. I am glad I have a Kyrinov then, but will not get to use him now...

Molds for metal models wear out the fastest because their rubber and get bent and flexed to empty them, so they develop tiny craks and lose bits and eventually have to get replaced. That's part of the reason the models have flash.

Kyrinov can still get use....as a generic priest who nicked his stuff.

pretre wrote:Start of 3rd edition black book rules. That was the worst.

That's actually the one version of their rules that I have never seen! I have the codices, I have the Chapter Approved list, I even have the pre-codex White Dwarf rules where a Battle Sister still had T4 (take that, Space Marines ) ...

How did faith work in the 3E rulebook version?

Sisters were T4 in 2nd as well, but they had a different mechanic than Faith back then.

 Lynata wrote:
How did faith work in the 3E rulebook version?

Oh, it was our simplest faith system. There was none.

 Lynata wrote:

Furyou Miko wrote:

Is ... is that a beard?

It's a fake beard. you can see the strap.

Decided that the little girl smile was a little too creepy for a trollface.

I have a SoB army collecting dust for years. After reading through the codex, I didn't find ANYTHING that I would say "OOOoooh, I wanna play with that!"
Why the hell do they nerf an army, that's the bottom of the shelf?

I don't intend to play competively, I just don't want an army that goes "puff" the minute it encounters:
- Serpent Spam (bye bye Rhino/Immolator, instakill IC)
- FMC daemon, heldrake CSM
- Riptides with plasma crisis suits (instakill)
- assault cannon lists
- grav bikers

That was just the local boys I will encounter in our FLGS.

OK, so after reading through the codex, can you come up with a list that can play a decent match against the above?

Sorry, I'm really pissed, the last straw was the 1-click deal on their page (50 pounds for a BSS, 41 pounds for 5 celestians, really?).
They made a joke of us, and I don't think this is gonna change in the next 5-6 years, until 7th edition.

The one clicks are the same price as our normal stuff just like every other one click, how is that making a joke of us?

Tyrpak wrote:
I don't intend to play competively, I just don't want an army that goes "puff" the minute it encounters:
- Serpent Spam (bye bye Rhino/Immolator, instakill IC)
- FMC daemon, heldrake CSM
- Riptides with plasma crisis suits (instakill)
- assault cannon lists
- grav bikers

That was just the local boys I will encounter in our FLGS.

OK, so after reading through the codex, can you come up with a list that can play a decent match against the above?

Grav bikers? Good luck with those cover saves.
Assault Cannon lists? What is this?
Riptides? good luck with the scouting meltas and gatling S8 AP1.
Serpent Spam? Please, use your shields on me so you start getting popped like crazy. Not to mention scouting doms can drop them before they get a chance to get movement from cover.

As I've said before, start thinking about the book before giving up about it. Make some lists that aren't just carbon copies of the old ones.

Tyrpak wrote:
I have a SoB army collecting dust for years. After reading through the codex, I didn't find ANYTHING that I would say "OOOoooh, I wanna play with that!"
Why the hell do they nerf an army, that's the bottom of the shelf?

I don't intend to play competively, I just don't want an army that goes "puff" the minute it encounters:
- Serpent Spam (bye bye Rhino/Immolator, instakill IC)
- FMC daemon, heldrake CSM
- Riptides with plasma crisis suits (instakill)
- assault cannon lists
- grav bikers

That was just the local boys I will encounter in our FLGS.

OK, so after reading through the codex, can you come up with a list that can play a decent match against the above?

Sorry, I'm really pissed, the last straw was the 1-click deal on their page (50 pounds for a BSS, 41 pounds for 5 celestians, really?).
They made a joke of us, and I don't think this is gonna change in the next 5-6 years, until 7th edition.

Instakill? Who cares? Most of our good stuff only has one wound anyway... and is more resilient against Riptides than Space Marines are, since we at least get a save.

Riptides are so quaint.

3 Exorcists (10.5 Shots, 7 hits, 35/6 wounds, 35/12 wounds if they have 4+ cover from something)

1 Dominion Squad (4 shots, 8/3 Hits, 40/18 Wounds, no cover)

Good luck if we get first turn.

As much as I like this book, I think I'll still do a fandex thing....but I might mail it into Cruddace wrapped around the largest brick of chocolate I can get as a bribe instead of posting it online.

I think the Dominion squads are sweet, I would like to put a simulacrum in the squad, my thoughts are though, after they get out and kill something, they are probably dead anyway so it is probably not worth the points. I think squads of flamers are good too, however you can get two in your troop squads anyway so probably best to keep the melta in the dominion squads...

I have 3 penitent engines and want to play them, but with their speed and how good the Exorcist is, I doubt I will be taking them. I think the dominion squads will be good against serpent spam and tau gunlines


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hell even the girls with bolters in the dominion squad will be good to ignore cover..

My thought on Dominions is to run them in a rhino. I know that is counter-most people's thoughts but that way they don't die as soon as they do their job.

 pretre wrote:
My thought on Dominions is to run them in a rhino. I know that is counter-most people's thoughts but that way they don't die as soon as they do their job.

Yeah, doing the math the Dominions are kind of pricey with an Immolator to just shoot once and lose immediately. I'd rather keep them in a Rhino and only get to shoot 2 and have them longer than shoot 4 and lose them the next turn.

Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. And it'll let you put more battle sister squads in the list, too. Besides, you can still have a five member squad in a rhino anyway. THey'll just have more room

If run them and keep them in the rhino are you using a simulacrum then? Are you just buying 2 meltas and not 4?

 Melissia wrote:
Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. And it'll let you put more battle sister squads in the list, too. Besides, you can still have a five member squad in a rhino anyway. THey'll just have more room

You can give them a Priest to reduce their chances of being pinned when their ride spontaneously explodes in a ball of fire and awesome under enemy anti-tank fire!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
If run them and keep them in the rhino are you using a simulacrum then? Are you just buying 2 meltas and not 4?

Buying 1+ Simulacrum is still a better plan then an Immolator mostly because the Rhino has Fire Points. The Immolator would be a better bet if it did too.

 pretre wrote:

Grav bikers? Good luck with those cover saves.
Assault Cannon lists? What is this?
Riptides? good luck with the scouting meltas and gatling S8 AP1.
Serpent Spam? Please, use your shields on me so you start getting popped like crazy. Not to mention scouting doms can drop them before they get a chance to get movement from cover.

As I've said before, start thinking about the book before giving up about it. Make some lists that aren't just carbon copies of the old ones.

Ok, so I was thinking about 3 exorcists, 2 dominion with full melta and MM, 5 sister +1 plasma priest MM immolators (some with flamers, some with meltas). The only difference from the old one is the priest I think. Oh and not taking Celestine and her seraphim retinue. :(

Against:
(just the last month, against my space wolves, ok?)

- 5 wave serpents, and 2 knights. If you go first, and you are lucky, 1 knight, or maybe 2 serpents. After his shooting, you lost prolly both dominion squads and 2 exorcists. And than he is on the move. If you go second...
- 3 riptides, 12 crisis suits, 2 pathfinder squads, broadsides. First turn I got the pathfinders, he hid behind LoS blocking terrain. On his turn, jumped over the terrain, and just barraged everything. Even if you put everything, so 3 exorcists and 2 dominion is needed for 1 riptide, he still has 2-4 remaining. Plus 12 suits with 4 plasma shots each.
- FMC I think is doable, weight of fire will probably crash land them, and a nearby squad can melta them.
- DA Deathwing player who thinks, bringing 5 assault cannons and 3 AC land speeders is funny. (and he rolls 5+ pretty good) That would probably be a war of attrition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry guys, I was a bit rash there. /repent

I was just thinking about older dexes, like the Witchhunter one, where I had an Inquisitor with 2 plasma cannon servitors, in a Land Raider...
Something, that's more interesting than 3 exorcists and 7 exploding rhinos/immolators.

Like taking an IG Storm Troops, and stealing their chimera for the repentia squad.

I'm just nostalgic, and underwhelmed. :(

How are the Dominons getting MM? They can't take them on their own.

Immolator.

 Melissia wrote:
Immolator.

I thought so, but I always like to confirm first.

 Crevab wrote:
I'm not familiar with GWs e-pubs how long does it take them to to come out with a finished product after this seeming "beta" release? I would like my Hand Flamers to have a profile please

Page 56 of the BRB not enough for you?
Sure, it'd be cool to have it in the codex as well, but it's not like it doesn't exist.

They're in the iPad version. Strange how the same book has different errors based on which version you download.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
It's a straight nerf if you think that the only way for Sisters to win is by comboing the Immortal Warlord with the Jacobus Bomb.

Warhammer....even our women are beardies .

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
It's a straight nerf if you think that the only way for Sisters to win is by comboing the Immortal Warlord with the Jacobus Bomb.

Warhammer....even our women are beardies .

Only if you play Dwarves.

 pretre wrote:
You need to start over and build new lists.

That's what I did. It ended up quite similar because I don't have a lot of model, and there are some things I just like to field for fun/fluff/model reasons. Just like I refused to take 3 exorcists for fluff reasons.
I previously had two ten-women-strong troops and one ten-women-strong dominion flamer unit (with simulacrum, 4 flamers and a combi-flamers. It was awesome, because of the act of faith. Now, it's not. I managed to kill some 10 marines squad with that !).
Now I have three five-women troops (one with nothing, just camping on an objective, and two in rhinos, with two meltas), one ten-women troop (with flamer and heavy flamer, but no rhino because not enough immolator models), and a five-women-strong flamer dominion.
The rest of the difference was rhino morphing into immolators for dominions, Jacobus becoming a simple priest, SS being V or not V and getting or not getting combi-melta, the melta dominion becoming a 4 melta combi-melta squad, that kind of small change.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The Veteran upgrade on the Superior isn't worth it.

Depends on which squad. I obviously didn't take any into my 4 flamers one combi-flamer squad (the squad I still take for fluffy fun), for instance. On unit in which passing the Act of Faith is quite important (melta dominion, heavy bolter retributor (yet another bad choice, I know, but I love the models, and also I have only 2 heavy flamers, so...)), I did take them, though.

 pretre wrote:
My thought on Dominions is to run them in a rhino. I know that is counter-most people's thoughts but that way they don't die as soon as they do their job.

What the point ? You can get a 5 women troop squad with two melta in a rhino that will do just the same work.

ClockworkZion wrote:Sisters were T4 in 2nd as well

Oh goddess, you're right. I think I never actually looked at their profile, I have that book just for its fluff.
I got into Sisters at around 3E.

pretre wrote:Oh, it was our simplest faith system. There was none.

Ow.

Not even the pre-battle rites they had earlier? Lame.

 pretre wrote:
My thought on Dominions is to run them in a rhino. I know that is counter-most people's thoughts but that way they don't die as soon as they do their job.

I was in this camp in 5E, but I think the vehicle changes in 6th make it less good. If that Rhino gets shaken or stunned your shooty squad is no longer worth a damn, so it makes sense to try and get out of the tank asap.

Other issues with staying in the tank are that you lose 6" of range from your first turn of shooting and you can only fire with two of your four specials. Those two guns (lets assume they're meltas) aren't twin linked anymore so there's a pretty good chance that you're looking at one melta hit on your first turn strike. Paying the extra 20 pts for a twin-linked MM shot seems like a good deal.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 pretre wrote:
My thought on Dominions is to run them in a rhino. I know that is counter-most people's thoughts but that way they don't die as soon as they do their job.

What the point ? You can get a 5 women troop squad with two melta in a rhino that will do just the same work.

They won't be able to scout which is kind of a big deal.

Amerikon wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 pretre wrote:
My thought on Dominions is to run them in a rhino. I know that is counter-most people's thoughts but that way they don't die as soon as they do their job.

What the point ? You can get a 5 women troop squad with two melta in a rhino that will do just the same work.

They won't be able to scout which is kind of a big deal.

Dominions can also ignore cover and can get four meltas in a squad (five with a combi melta), so they're still one of the best ways we have to deal with torublesome enemy vehicles.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Lynata wrote:

Furyou Miko wrote:

Is ... is that a beard?

It's a fake beard. you can see the strap.

Decided that the little girl smile was a little too creepy for a trollface.

Can you make an avatar with shades in 'the matrix' Morpheus style?

Sadly, the reflections are a little beyond my skill. ^^;

I think Furyou Miko needs a "Deal With It" emote image.

Back on topic, I had a thought about Dominions, and I think their AoF might not be to benefit the Flamer Doms, but rather everyone else in the Squad. Take a full squad and that's 6 Bolters Rapid Firing and ignoring cover on top of the flamer templates. They could murder things out of cover that way I think.

 Furyou Miko wrote:


Eiliuj is a very negative person. I think he's an Eldar spy sent to demoralise us.

Either way he is burning himself alive in the avatar. This means if he is a heretic he's getting rid of his sin of being one or if he isn't then he's a sister that likes fire and is just plain crazy.

Speaking of him and sisters have there ever been any sex-changed sisters? I think I just opened a chapter to a book better left un-opened and burned. Belongs more on 4chan I bet.

---------------------

You could also do a heavy metal version of your avatar. It'd definitely be weird but awesome.

Anyway I think i'll stop posting in this thread lol. I go off topic too much and that's best left to PM's.

ClockworkZion wrote:I think Furyou Miko needs a "Deal With It" emote image.

I agree.
Here, Sister Miko. Take these:

flamingkillamajig wrote:Speaking of him and sisters have there ever been any sex-changed sisters?

Wha-?

Why would ... how ...

Hehe sorry lynata I just saw that in my head when I said 'him' and 'sisters'. My mind drifts to weird places sometimes. I think we both know that. It's a fun ride though.

How should I put it? Do you remember that scene in 'rat race' where there's a male lucy on the 'I love lucy' tour bus? It's kind of like that.

Some girls are raised as boys and perhaps the opposite is true. Now my mind has just thought of some disturbing things. To be fair 4chan has thought up way weirder crap.

Anyway if people try making female marines and joking then what about male sisters? Sorry this idea is so wrong I can't help but laugh at it.

You know what forget I even mentioned that. I'm started to weird out myself.

 Troike wrote:
Dominions can also ignore cover and can get four meltas in a squad (five with a combi melta), so they're still one of the best ways we have to deal with torublesome enemy vehicles.

Four melta is no use if you stay inside the rhino.

Amerikon wrote:
They won't be able to scout which is kind of a big deal.

Yep, but since we are very short on fast attack choices, let's make those we can take count as much as possible. So I plan on using 4 melta 1 combi-melta inside a MM immolator. For more melta goodness.

Now I have a mental image of a little boy telling his parents he wants to grow up to be a Battle Sister. Thanks.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Now I have a mental image of a little boy telling his parents he wants to grow up to be a Battle Sister. Thanks.

Perhaps a male dressing up as a battle sister in drag would be less appalling. Sorry I had some funny comments earlier and forgot them. I tried making new ones and stumbled into the alternate zone or the reverse funny zone. And then both zones combined and reality just sort of shattered and destroyed everybody's minds.

See, now I want to make a gender-reversed Adepta Sororita army.

 Happyjew wrote:
See, now I want to make a gender-reversed Adepta Sororita army.

They call them "Space Marines".

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Now I have a mental image of a little boy telling his parents he wants to grow up to be a Battle Sister. Thanks.

I just laughed at the idea of the sisters of battle during a matt ward art and fluff direction interview.

"You see I wanted to take the 'sisters' in an entirely new direction."

*All the models end up being males in drag.*

Lol worst artistic choice ever. Sisters players would write up a hit-list for whoever was involved if that happened XD.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
See, now I want to make a gender-reversed Adepta Sororita army.

They call them "Space Marines".

That was actually my plan. Use Space Marines as the Adepta. When called out on it, say "Even in the grimdark there are transgender and a number of them were able to make it into the Sisterhood. Do you have a problem with trannies?"

 Psienesis wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
See, now I want to make a gender-reversed Adepta Sororita army.

They call them "Space Marines".

Yeah, Marines are basically male Sororitas. I guess it's a niche they wanted to fill in their product line.

ClockworkZion wrote:I think Furyou Miko needs a "Deal With It" emote image.

On a related note, there should be an SoB "deal with it" pic. I can see it being useful in response to certain complaints people might make.

And the Sister in it should, of course, be from Argent Shroud. Shades would suit them the best.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Amerikon wrote:
They won't be able to scout which is kind of a big deal.

Yep, but since we are very short on fast attack choices, let's make those we can take count as much as possible. So I plan on using 4 melta 1 combi-melta inside a MM immolator. For more melta goodness.

We actually agree on this point. But putting your Dominions in a Rhino doesn't make them no better than a regular BSS.

I like how the farsight and iyanden supplements both manages to have far more fluff then the entire SOB codex. GW truly gives no feth.

 Harriticus wrote:
I like how the farsight and iyanden supplements both manages to have far more fluff then the entire SOB codex. GW truly gives no feth.

It's not so bad when you realise that the digital SoB codex is just a stopgap, they probably saw no reason to go all-out on it. Most likely we'll see tons of SoB fluff when their proper codex comes, models alongside it.

Amerikon wrote:
But putting your Dominions in a Rhino doesn't make them no better than a regular BSS.

That was a slight exaggeration from me .

 Troike wrote:
It's not so bad when you realise that the digital SoB codex is just a stopgap

Like the previous one, and the next one ?

 Troike wrote:
It's not so bad when you realise that the digital SoB codex is just a stopgap, they probably saw no reason to go all-out on it. Most likely we'll see tons of SoB fluff when their proper codex comes, models alongside it.

I've been saying that for 15 years.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Amerikon wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Amerikon wrote:
They won't be able to scout which is kind of a big deal.

Yep, but since we are very short on fast attack choices, let's make those we can take count as much as possible. So I plan on using 4 melta 1 combi-melta inside a MM immolator. For more melta goodness.

We actually agree on this point. But putting your Dominions in a Rhino doesn't make them no better than a regular BSS.

Why wouldn't they be able to scout in a rhino? They can still scout and they can still shoot out the hatch, ignoring cover without dieing the next turn. As to shaken/stunned, that is a lot less likely now that glances don't give results.

Oh, wait, with that double negative you're saying they are better than a BSS, so nevermind, I agree with you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Troike wrote:
Dominions can also ignore cover and can get four meltas in a squad (five with a combi melta), so they're still one of the best ways we have to deal with torublesome enemy vehicles.

Four melta is no use if you stay inside the rhino.

Amerikon wrote:
They won't be able to scout which is kind of a big deal.

Yep, but since we are very short on fast attack choices, let's make those we can take count as much as possible. So I plan on using 4 melta 1 combi-melta inside a MM immolator. For more melta goodness.

Just because you're in a rhino, doesn't mean you have to stay there. It gives you options which the Immo does not. Want to shoot something with your doms and you're in an immo? You disembark. Want to shoot something with your doms and you're in a rhino? Choose your method.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 pretre wrote:
My thought on Dominions is to run them in a rhino. I know that is counter-most people's thoughts but that way they don't die as soon as they do their job.

What the point ? You can get a 5 women troop squad with two melta in a rhino that will do just the same work.

The BSS can't scout and can't ignore cover. If the BSS get out of the rhino, they still only have 2 meltas.

 pretre wrote:
I've been saying that for 15 years.

And for those 15 years, GW was not able to make plastic Sisters.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Like the previous one, and the next one ?

This one and the WD ones were stopgaps because the models weren't ready. But now that they're able to make plastics at last, a real update can happen. This has what's been holding the SoB back for so long.

 Troike wrote:
This one and the WD ones were stopgaps because the models weren't ready.

Two stopgap in a row ! GW sure love us ! Were we Dark Eldar, we wouldn't have got any stopgap in between real codices.

 Troike wrote:
But now that they're able to make plastics at last, a real update can happen. This has what's been holding the SoB back for so long.

Well, that's what you think have been holding them back for so long. If it's true, we'll no doubt read it in the White Dwarf that will introduce the new plastic models and codex. If it's not, we'll likely never know.

Technically, they only said the WD one was the "stopgap", didn't they? Followed by "we have not forgotten you! just wait for it ..."
And now we got this. I'm fairly sure that there's a "Mission Accomplished" banner flying at GW HQ right now, rather than plans for something greater.

I don't want to be the Negative Nurgling, but at the same time I just cannot recommend keeping up expectations over such a prolonged time. We're better off trying to be happy with what we have - and treating anything else we may get some day as a bonus. At least until we actually see GW truly overthinking their business model for SoB.

Troike wrote:On a related note, there should be an SoB "deal with it" pic. I can see it being useful in response to certain complaints people might make.

I actually think I even saw one a couple weeks ago! I just cannot for the love of the Emperor remember where... :(

But hey, I found some other random stuff trying to locate it via a google image search:
Hell yeah.
This makes me want a Sisters anime...
Not as cool as my Centurion idea, but hey ...
This made me giggle.

I have not had a chance to play it yet, but I am guessing for the points and what it can kill, I think the 4 meltas and combi melta in the Dominion squad that exits the vehicle ASAP to shoot is probably better than 2 in a vehicle shooting. The reason I say this is because I think once the opponent or people know about the Dominion squad I think they will gun for them and I think they will be dead or snap firing after the first turn. I think that you are better at taking first full shots at what you want to kill or outflanking them.

I like the idea of flamers in the troop squads, heck even the dominion squads, but if you don't get first turn then the flamers are useless if get shaken

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Were we Dark Eldar, we wouldn't have got any stopgap in between real codices.

The DE never had any modelling issues to contend with.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Well, that's what you think have been holding them back for so long.

That's what the developers have been saying for a while.

Jes Goodwin:

He did stress that they really wanted to crack on with Sisters, but that they had been causing them technical difficulties for quite some time.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/328983.page

Phil Kelly:

Oh yeah, one last thing about the Sisters of Battle. According to Phil Kelly, the reason why they never got plastic minis was because they couldn't be plastic moulded by the current process. He wasn't really sure what the issue was, but there was something about the sculpt which meant that it could only be cast in metal.

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/sisters-of-battle.html

However, this came to light a little while ago:

A couple of these ones got some further points. It was mentioned that originally there had been a technical problem with developing Sisters plastics, but that Games Workshop would now have the technology to be able to do them.

http://the-responsible-one.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/enter-citadel-ask-audience-we-want-to.html

Which is why I think it's likely that the real update is yet to come. This digital update couldn't have been anything more than a stopgap, since the plastics obviously aren't ready yet.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
If it's true, we'll no doubt read it in the White Dwarf that will introduce the new plastic models and codex. If it's not, we'll likely never know.

Not in the next White Dwarf. We'll probably hear about it via rumours before WD mentions anything about it.

 Lynata wrote:
Technically, they only said the WD one was the "stopgap", didn't they? Followed by "we have not forgotten you! just wait for it ..."

Because the models still weren't ready. But as I linked above, the news on that has changed.

 Lynata wrote:
And now we got this. I'm fairly sure that there's a "Mission Accomplished" banner flying at GW HQ right now, rather than plans for something greater.

But what's the purpose of making this digital codex be if there weren't further plans? And we know that they've tried to make plastics in the past. Why do that if there aren't any future plans for the SoB?

 Lynata wrote:
Hell yeah.
This makes me want a Sisters anime...

You may also like:

Troike wrote:Because the models still weren't ready. But as I linked above, the news on that has changed.

No, the Codex has nothing to do with models.
Where did you hear anything about stopgaps after the WD one was released?

Troike wrote:But what's the purpose of making this digital codex be if there weren't further plans? And we know that they've tried to make plastics in the past. Why do that if there aren't any future plans for the SoB?

Because they knew the WD 'dex wouldn't suffice for the next couple years, because they knew the fans would keep pestering them, and because a digital codex is comparatively easy to make but can yield some good money in return. Even assuming there's only 1.000 Sisters players worldwide (completely off the top of my hat), this would mean $33.000 - not a bad result for something that maybe took a week to write.

What do you think was the purpose behind supplements like the Farsight Enclaves, the Black Legion, or the Sentinels of Terra? Are there new models going along with those releases?
For the Sisters players, it's even more profitable because technically - unlike with the supplements - they are "forced" to buy the new DigiDex to remain up-to-date with the current edition.

Maybe the sales numbers will convince GW that the army is worth an investment for a proper re-launch a la Dark Eldar or Necrons. Maybe this was part of the reason behind the digital codex - to see how many people are buying it. But am I expecting anything? Not for now.
And wasn't there something about that GW would do a print version of the digidex if it sells well enough? Now why would they do this if it was just a stopgap?

Troike wrote:You may also like:

Spoiler:

Ah yes, "Sister Smirk" - I like the other picture of her more, though .. more malicious.

 Lynata wrote:
No, the Codex has nothing to do with models.

Sure it does. Can't do a big hyped up release or add new units without new models.

 Lynata wrote:
Where did you hear anything about stopgaps after the WD one was released?

Don't really need to hear it said explicitly. From the past attempts at making plastics, we can infer that a big update is planned at some point. Hence, these last two "watered-down" codexes serve as stopgaps for a proper update.

 Lynata wrote:
Because they knew the WD 'dex wouldn't suffice for the next couple years, because they knew the fans would keep pestering them

People pestered them about the Squats, and the Templars. This is a common idea that I see, that GW is being "forced" to make updates for the Sisters because of fan demand. Yet they showed no qualms about doing away with the Templars.

 Lynata wrote:
and because a digital codex is comparatively easy to make but can yield some good money in return.

Right, as can a proper model/codex update. What's better, leave the army without buyable rules and the models in obscurity unitl doing such and update, or make a stopgap codex and promote the models until releasing a proper update?

 Lynata wrote:
Maybe the sales numbers will convince GW that the army is worth an investment for a proper re-launch a la Dark Eldar or Necrons. Maybe this was part of the reason behind the digital codex - to see how many people are buying it. But am I expecting anything?

It's a popular sentiment, but I'm not convinced that this is a test to determine if we get further support. For one, the models are still awkward to collect and the codex is (for now) digital only, so its hardly a fair test. Secondly, they still tried to make plastics before. If they weren't planning a relauch of any kind, then why make those?

Though I will add that it was certainly a chance to impressGW with the popularity of the SoB. Hopefully, we've done that.

 Lynata wrote:
And wasn't there something about that GW would do a print version of the digidex if it sells well enough? Now why would they do this if it was just a stopgap?

Because people will buy it, of course. And this still doesn't address the past attempts at making plastics, those quite clearly imply a real update being planned at some point.

Also, we have support within the dev team. Cruddace and Kelly have expressed enthusiasm for the Sisters, and there's reportedly three other devs with full SoB armies. I don't think that we've been given this mini-update due to a lack of enthusiasm to move them forward.

 Lynata wrote:
Ah yes, "Sister Smirk" - I like the other picture of her more, though .. more malicious.

Other picture?

 Lynata wrote:
Technically, they only said the WD one was the "stopgap", didn't they? Followed by "we have not forgotten you! just wait for it ..."
And now we got this. I'm fairly sure that there's a "Mission Accomplished" banner flying at GW HQ right now, rather than plans for something greater.

I don't want to be the Negative Nurgling, but at the same time I just cannot recommend keeping up expectations over such a prolonged time. We're better off trying to be happy with what we have - and treating anything else we may get some day as a bonus. At least until we actually see GW truly overthinking their business model for SoB.

Troike wrote:On a related note, there should be an SoB "deal with it" pic. I can see it being useful in response to certain complaints people might make.

I actually think I even saw one a couple weeks ago! I just cannot for the love of the Emperor remember where... :(

But hey, I found some other random stuff trying to locate it via a google image search:
Hell yeah.
This makes me want a Sisters anime...
Not as cool as my Centurion idea, but hey ...
This made me giggle.

I was more laughing at the centurion's mega-boobs with spikes. Don't touch them as they inject poisons when touched.

If we're talking sisters pics I prefer the one where some sister has the goofy grin on her face with the word "Heresy" on it like she's excited to kill heretics or something but finds it fun like some kids might find going to Disneyland. If I remember a dakka member had that. Not sure who they were but they were awesome just for having that as an avatar.

Wait so you want an anime about an all female army fighting chaos.... I kind of feel bad saying it'd probably be filled to the brim with middle school to high school girls and more bouncing boobs and fan service than you'd hope for. Anime has absolutely no restraint these days. It'd also include at least one beach, shower or pool scene for the pervs. I mean they are such closet perverts (and went so far into the closet) with some animes that they've probably stumbled onto Narnia by now or you know the monsters from 'monsters inc.'. It's sad when I look tame to some anime these days.

Well I suppose if the anime was a westernized anime we might do ok. Not sure on the details but I heard 'supernatural' had an animated series and it was pretty good. Don't think it counts as anime. Some different franchises have had some very impressive cartoons or at least web series. They had a cartoon for diablo 3 near it's launch that looked impressive. If Warhammer got a decent one who knows. Then again it's not like GW is known for CGI films....erm.

Troike wrote:People pestered them about the Squats, and the Templars. This is a common idea that I see, that GW is being "forced" to make updates for the Sisters because of fan demand. Yet they showed no qualms about doing away with the Templars.

But they did not "do away" with the Templars, they put them into the Marine Codex. Some people might argue this is actually better than a Digital Codex.
Of course, the Templars are a special case in that they, too, are "just" Space Marines, and I have long been an advocate of putting any sort of Imperial Marines into Codex:SM. The new supplements present a good way to offer optional extensions down the road.
In fact, I could see this being an option for BT in the near future - but we will have to wait and see, and this doesn't belong into this thread anyways.

Troike wrote:Right, as can a proper model/codex update. What's better, leave the army without buyable rules and the models in obscurity unitl doing such and update, or make a stopgap codex and promote the models until releasing a proper update?

A model update is a huge investment - much more risky than writing a short Digital Codex that is 50% copypaste. And I'm not just talking about the pricy moulds, but also the minis themselves, shipping cost, and print codices - which see printing cost added to the investment of just writing a file.
The Sisters have buyable rules now, and they have the necessary models available. This is specifically why I'm wondering if someone at GW may not look at them and think "alright, good job, we're done here, next army!"
This need not be Jes or one of the designers, who would happily work on more Sisters stuff, but corporate decisions like these are not made by the creative people. Even if they wanted to, perhaps they cannot.

And yes, I too think that a relaunch of the SoB could pay off, but given the army's history I just see sufficient grounds to question GW's approach to the subject.
15 years of "problems" despite the supposed intention to make new models? Nonsense. If GW wanted to, they could also just make new metal minis. Or do plastics that are not multi-poseable (this is a rather new thing anyways, so where is the excuse for the first 10 years?).
Do you think it even sounds scientifically sound that GW is supposedly trying to find a way to make their robes fall from the right angles depending on how you pose their arms? How exactly is this supposed to work, even in theory?

Troike wrote:For one, the models are still awkward to collect and the codex is (for now) digital only, so its hardly a fair test.

Don't tell me. It is up to GW to put the Sisters back into boxes of 10 and sell them for the same price as metal IG.
That would actually make them cheaper than Marines.
So why won't they? This goes back to me questioning GW's course again. They just don't seem to know what they want. A short blurb in activity (5E WD Codex and articles) is followed by complete neglect (missing from Apocalypse and Damnos Crusade), followed again by activity (6E Digidex) ... will we be forgotten again for a year or so? What do you think we'll see for our next spike in GW love?

Troike wrote:Secondly, they still tried to make plastics before. If they weren't planning a relauch of any kind, then why make those?

They could have made plastic SoB for 15 years if they just wanted.
Poseable robes are not more important than having an affordable army, especially since there is no way on Earth that you can make plastic behave like actual cloth.

Troike wrote:Other picture?

This one:

flamingkillamajig wrote:If we're talking sisters pics I prefer the one where some sister has the goofy grin on her face with the word "Heresy" on it like she's excited to kill heretics or something but finds it fun like some kids might find going to Disneyland.

This one?

flamingkillamajig wrote:Wait so you want an anime about an all female army fighting chaos.... I kind of feel bad saying it'd probably be filled to the brim with middle school to high school girls and more bouncing boobs and fan service than you'd hope for. Anime has absolutely no restraint these days. It'd also include at least one beach, shower or pool scene for the pervs.

Uh? Nah. They're still making lots of good anime. I think there's just a really huge stigma against it because that is a medium literally used for anything from serious drama to fanservice and comedy. All in all, it's no different from live action movies. The Western world just isn't really used to this idea; cartoons being able to be "serious" is still considered unconventional and fresh.

Or how about some CGI?


Would there be fanservice? I guess there might. Just like there is fanservice in 40k already - from rulebook artworks like these to BL covers like these. And just like every Hollywood movie these days has fanservice. I'm sorry, but this really isn't something you can pin on the Japanese.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:


Eiliuj is a very negative person. I think he's an Eldar spy sent to demoralise us.

Either way he is burning himself alive in the avatar. This means if he is a heretic he's getting rid of his sin of being one or if he isn't then he's a sister that likes fire and is just plain crazy.

Speaking of him and sisters have there ever been any sex-changed sisters? I think I just opened a chapter to a book better left un-opened and burned. Belongs more on 4chan I bet.

Yoh.

Heh, that didn't work very well... one of the problems of using Paint is that there's no free-rotate function, so I can't line them up properly.

That said, does this look like an 'impressed' face?

I feel like the SoB got some nice goodies (as previously mentioned, the Condemnor Boltgun is pretty swanky). But overall, the problems with the new 'dex are really concerning. As a long-time SoB/Witch Hunters player, I find that GW had good ideas for the army at different times, but they never put it all together to make the Adeptas Sororitas viable against what they've been producing for the other armies...

I'll just continue painting my army of Sisters until the day comes that Sisters are actually good... so I don't think I'll be playing for awhile XD

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
I like the idea of flamers in the troop squads, heck even the dominion squads, but if you don't get first turn then the flamers are useless if get shaken

No such problem for dominion squad : put a lot of objectives near table edges in the middle of good cover, your opponent will likely put his troops near it (event though he don't need to do that before the end of the game, the fool !), and then outflank and burn his troop into oblivion .
It was one of my favorite tactics, but no more twin-link means marines will just laugh at my puny flamethrowers now . May still work on non-marines, especially those that have only a 5+ save. Or rely on good cover .

 Troike wrote:
The DE never had any modelling issues to contend with.

For all we know, maybe they had some and just didn't communicate on it.

 Troike wrote:
That's what the developers have been saying for a while.

Ok, I'm a Sisters of Battle fan,how can you expect me not to have heard of those rumors a thousand times ? I guess I must have heard about them from YOU a dozen times already.
Repeating them is no use !

 Troike wrote:
Not in the next White Dwarf. We'll probably hear about it via rumours before WD mentions anything about it.

Yeah. That's the whole point. We hear a lot of things in rumor, but I don't trust them. If it's not straight out of something official from GW, I don't trust it. If it's in the White Dwarf, I'll do.

 Troike wrote:
But what's the purpose of making this digital codex be if there weren't further plans?

Money ? Like in everything every company ever do ?

Just looking at stuff in the codex and for succeding our test on Dominions AoF i'm thinking a Laud Hailer on the DT would be better than a VS even though they cost the same.

 Lynata wrote:
But they did not "do away" with the Templars, they put them into the Marine Codex. Some people might argue this is actually better than a Digital Codex.
Of course, the Templars are a special case in that they, too, are "just" Space Marines, and I have long been an advocate of putting any sort of Imperial Marines into Codex:SM. The new supplements present a good way to offer optional extensions down the road.
In fact, I could see this being an option for BT in the near future - but we will have to wait and see, and this doesn't belong into this thread anyways.

The point was that they didn't feel like supporting the Templars so much anymore, so they stopped giving them their own codex and rolled them into the Marine one. It demonstrates that they have no qualms about removing codexes they don't want to work on.

 Lynata wrote:
A model update is a huge investment

As was the DE update. And we know they've tried making plastics before, so it's obviously something they're willing to work on.

 Lynata wrote:
Nonsense. If GW wanted to, they could also just make new metal minis.

But they don't do this anymore. maybe you don't see any problem with it, but it's quite clear that GW wants to do posable plastics now.

 Lynata wrote:
Do you think it even sounds scientifically sound that GW is supposedly trying to find a way to make their robes fall from the right angles depending on how you pose their arms? How exactly is this supposed to work, even in theory?

I'm not a model designer, I couldn't say. My thinking is that they've found a workaround of some kind. And also, didn't you express a strong desire to keep the arm robes on, when I suggested that they could be taken off if it got us plastics?

 Lynata wrote:
So why won't they? This goes back to me questioning GW's course again. They just don't seem to know what they want. A short blurb in activity (5E WD Codex and articles) is followed by complete neglect (missing from Apocalypse and Damnos Crusade), followed again by activity (6E Digidex) ... will we be forgotten again for a year or so? What do you think we'll see for our next spike in GW love?

The modelling issues were still a factor back then, so of course support was intermittent.

 Lynata wrote:

Troike wrote:Other picture?

This one:

Spoiler:

Ha, I like that one. It's useful for reaction posts.

This variant of it is also amusing:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
For all we know, maybe they had some and just didn't communicate on it.

I don't think that they did. I recall hearing that Jes worked on them between other projects, and clearly he was able to work on them and produce the plastics he wanted without issue.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Ok, I'm a Sisters of Battle fan,how can you expect me not to have heard of those rumors a thousand times ? I guess I must have heard about them from YOU a dozen times already.
Repeating them is no use !

Not rumours... Certified quotes from the developers themselves. This is quite different from a random rumour mongerer spouting something. And what we've heard from the devs has been consistent. They've been saying there were modelling issues for a while, now. And just recently, they said that they now had the capability to make them.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Yeah. That's the whole point. We hear a lot of things in rumor, but I don't trust them.

I can understand that people would be sceptical if new rumours of plastic Sisters surfaced. The way I see it happening, when they start being made, is a few rumours popping up but few people believing them, but then a WD leak comes and we start getting excited. So I guess it will be WD that wins people over.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
If it's not straight out of something official from GW, I don't trust it.

So why aren't dev quotes good enough for you?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Money ? Like in everything every company ever do ?

Then why not continue the Squats or the Black Templars? They could have kept milking those particular cows, if theyd felt like it.

 Troike wrote:
The point was that they didn't feel like supporting the Templars so much anymore, so they stopped giving them their own codex and rolled them into the Marine one. It demonstrates that they have no qualms about removing codexes they don't want to work on.

Discontinuing a codex is completely different from merging two codices together.

 Troike wrote:
And we know they've tried making plastics before, so it's obviously something they're willing to work on.

You know that. I heard rumor about that, that I don't trust overmuch.

 Troike wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
For all we know, maybe they had some and just didn't communicate on it.

I don't think that they did. I recall hearing that Jes worked on them between other projects, and clearly he was able to work on them and produce the plastics he wanted without issue.

Let me be an ass and throw your own link at yourself :
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/328983.page
“However he said that the process of creating the Dark Eldar has really pushed the limits of what they can do in plastic, and has taught them a huge amount.

Many of the problems mentioned above (hair, robes etc) were the same for the Dark Eldar, but they learnt how to manage it and would now like to take those lessons back to the Sisters. ”

 Troike wrote:
Not rumours... Certified quotes from the developers themselves.

Certified quote ?
The first one from StraightSilver (whoever that is). I have no idea about who StraightSilver is and why I should trust him blindly on that, given the number of false rumor spread around. The second one is from Enigwolf, and could very well be simply rumor-echoing. The last one is from The Responsible One, and I have no idea who that is either.
Call me overly skeptic, but still, I'ld like an official written statement from GW (or maybe talking to the dev' myself) before believing something.

 Troike wrote:
I can understand that people would be sceptical if new rumours of plastic Sisters surfaced.

I was talking about the problems with making Sisters in plastic. I'm pretty sure if it is actually the case, they'll boast in the White Dwarf about how it was incredibly difficult at first but how with their experience and R&D they managed to overcome it.

 Troike wrote:
So why aren't dev quotes good enough for you?

Because those quotes are not on an official GW-hosted website or printed in an official GW magazine .

 Troike wrote:
Then why not continue the Squats or the Black Templars? They could have kept milking those particular cows, if theyd felt like it.

Squats were really a different time, and I don't see how selling more Codex: Space Marine, and more Centurions, is going to make them earn any less money than selling Codex: Black Templars and Random Unique Unit For The Black Templars. I do see how it helps with stock and all that, though.
Pretty much like how they love to do dual kits these day.

Can we be done with the damn plastic sisters thing?

Spoiler alert: Troike is convinced they are happening soon and will debate you until the end of days.

There. Now you know how it will end, let's be done with it or start a new thread. Stop clogging up this (and every other) sisters thread with it.

 marcus.iscariat wrote:
Just looking at stuff in the codex and for succeding our test on Dominions AoF i'm thinking a Laud Hailer on the DT would be better than a VS even though they cost the same.

I think the same - you are not always going to get a second shot I am trying out 1850 pts on Wednesday and have 3 Dominion Squads

One with 4 meltas, a Priest and the Book that means all AOF and Hymns auto succeed,
One with the Canoness (her melta gun) and 3 Meltas - so LD 10 - I might use the Laud Hailer here instead of putting the Cannoness.
One with 4 Flamers who don't care about the AOF

Yeah, what's the math on reroll vs Ld9?

Or even just LD 8 and a re-roll? Not very good with the math aspect............

40pts gets you a Priest and Auto Succeed in one unit..........

Found 0,922839506 for reroll vs 0,833333333 for Ld 9. Might be wrong. Ld9 with reroll, I find 0,972222222.

Okay, so Laud Hailer is better than VSS if you anticipate getting the first turn punch. VSS is better if you think the vehicle won't survive that long.

Well if we aren't geting the first punch with Dominions we have either hidden them or outflanked or they are DEAD so i'd still probably go with the Laud over the VS

The VS has the (quite small, but still) advantage that it will also make you less likely to flee after loosing half your unit. Who knows, maybe the enemy will just kill part of the unit and then let one or two isolated melta in the middle of his/her army !

True i'll concede that the VS can help us stop running, but the amount of times I have had a minimum size Dominion survive after taking a round of shooting has been so small and I usually would ditch the VS anyway as a casualty as she doesn't have a Special and usually the Combi has already been used.

And don't forget if they run, they'll probably run back into Uriah's fearless bubble.

 marcus.iscariat wrote:
and I usually would ditch the VS anyway as a casualty as she doesn't have a Special and usually the Combi has already been used.

Forgot about that, my bad. So, Laud Hailer for me.

 marcus.iscariat wrote:
Just looking at stuff in the codex and for succeding our test on Dominions AoF i'm thinking a Laud Hailer on the DT would be better than a VS even though they cost the same.

I agree I think it will have its place in this army doesn't it have a radius too? Don't have the dex at work, but even if their ride was punked another ride could help them..

Laud Hailer is 12"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Side note: Easy condemnors. Take a fantasy Bow. Cut in half. Place one piece on each side of bolter. Slap arrow on top of bolter. Voila.

What does everyone think of our arguably most elite unit the Seraphim losing there free Simulacrum and not having the ability to buy one a mistake/oversite or deliberate

 marcus.iscariat wrote:
What does everyone think of our arguably most elite unit the Seraphim losing there free Simulacrum and not having the ability to buy one a mistake/oversite or deliberate

I imagine it is deliberate. Carrying a big box full of bones while flying around is kind of difficult.

 pretre wrote:
Laud Hailer is 12"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Side note: Easy condemnors. Take a fantasy Bow. Cut in half. Place one piece on each side of bolter. Slap arrow on top of bolter. Voila.

I really like that tip, thanks...

So what is the concensus does the bolt have to wound before a perils is dealt to a psycher, the rules seem unclear to me...

I think it's deliberate : things that makes no sense usually are with GW !
Now if you want two acts of faith for your seraphims, just add Jacobus to the unit… oh, wait !

I think it's deliberate. Shredding Flamers is on the "Kaldor Draigo Fluff Power" level of broken in 6e, so being able to do it twice...

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Laud Hailer is 12"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Side note: Easy condemnors. Take a fantasy Bow. Cut in half. Place one piece on each side of bolter. Slap arrow on top of bolter. Voila.

I really like that tip, thanks...

So what is the concensus does the bolt have to wound before a perils is dealt to a psycher, the rules seem unclear to me...

Just hit. Until it's FAQ'd, it just needs to score a hit, not a Wound.

Silly Question: Celestine dies and comes back once. Jacobus joins Celestine so they make a unit of two. Jacobus joined, so in this case he's the IC who joined. Can he allow her to come back twice?

The restriction:
" Only the unit’s Act of Faith can be used in this way, not that of any Independent Characters that have joined the unit."

Celestine didn't join the unit, Jacobus did.

 pretre wrote:
Spoiler alert: Troike is convinced they are happening soon and will debate you until the end of days.

If this tangent is annoying people, then I suppose I'll stop, even though I had some good counter-points to make. Though I don't appreciate being singled out just because I hold a minority view. Everybody was quite convinced of their stance and willing to debate about it.

And to clarify, I've never actually said that plastics are coming soon. At most, I've theorised that the earliest that they could appear is late 2014.

 Troike wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Spoiler alert: Troike is convinced they are happening soon and will debate you until the end of days.

If this tangent is annoying people, then I suppose I'll stop, even though I had some good counter-points to make. Though I don't appreciate being singled out just because I hold a minority view. Everybody was quite convinced of their stance and willing to debate about it.

And to clarify, I've never actually said that plastics are coming soon. At most, I've theorised that the earliest that they could appear is late 2014.

You've beaten it into the ground every time it has come up. We get it. I'm not singling you out because of your minority view. I'm singling you out because of your dogged persistence not to let it die.

pretre wrote:I imagine it is deliberate. Carrying a big box full of bones while flying around is kind of difficult.

"Sister Joseline! Rearrange Saint Patriq, if you please. I believe his thigh bone got stuck in the eye socket again."
"*grumbles* I told her not to show off with those damn barrel rolls again..."

 pretre wrote:

 Troike wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Spoiler alert: Troike is convinced they are happening soon and will debate you until the end of days.

If this tangent is annoying people, then I suppose I'll stop, even though I had some good counter-points to make. Though I don't appreciate being singled out just because I hold a minority view. Everybody was quite convinced of their stance and willing to debate about it.

And to clarify, I've never actually said that plastics are coming soon. At most, I've theorised that the earliest that they could appear is late 2014.

You've beaten it into the ground every time it has come up. We get it. I'm not singling you out because of your minority view. I'm singling you out because of your dogged persistence not to let it die.

And I thought we considered Zealotry to be an virtue not a flaw.

Zeal is its own excuse.

@Lynata: No it was a different avatar. It was less frightening and more ridiculous like she was half-way through eating a hamburger with a stuffed face while blurting out 'Heresy' excitedly.

Oh don't get me wrong there's good anime out there. I enjoyed 'gungrave' (I think I heard it was made by the creators of trigon). I also watched half of 'monster' before I decided the anime could've wrapped up in about half as much time. I've watched two seasons of shakugan no shana and enjoyed it. It's just that I've seen some sites for anime and watching the release of harem #246531 kind of dampens my spirits and takes away any respect I have left for anime. There are some I've been meaning to watch. I think it was called 'Take on Titans' or 'Take on giants'. Ugh but I can't remember the name. I just don't like sifting through the turds to get to the gems of anime. Now for some reason I remember that funny scene in south park where cartman eat the fake treasure and poops it out at the end of the episode.

I actually remember watching the old starship troopers show. I enjoyed what I saw but I was younger so my opinion of shows probably wasn't the best. Didn't that show include mind parasites and aliens which were similar to protoss?

I think the best idea for sisters of battle is actually sort of like a web series with art in the form of a comic book with slight action, sound effects and voices. We pretty much have audio books already for some GW stuff. Something tells me the best we could hope for is something fan-made for sisters in that form. I was going to suggest you could take one of the comics about sisters and have fan-made audio for it but there might be some legal issues stirred up. I dunno. I think there's at least one fan-made comic about sisters that could use sound effects and voices. You might have to ask the comic writer first though if it's ok.

 pretre wrote:
Silly Question: Celestine dies and comes back once. Jacobus joins Celestine so they make a unit of two. Jacobus joined, so in this case he's the IC who joined. Can he allow her to come back twice?

The restriction:
" Only the unit’s Act of Faith can be used in this way, not that of any Independent Characters that have joined the unit."

Celestine didn't join the unit, Jacobus did.

I'm going to say no if only because Celestine's act explicitly mentions that it can only be used after the first time she's removed as a casualty. So even if this little cheat did succeed in letting her use her act twice, she'd use it again and then it wouldn't work.

Jacobus's special rule explicitly mentions that you can only use the ability of the unit he's attached to and not that of any other attached IC. This is actually a completely worthless distinction since the only other IC is a Priest (with no AoF) or the Canoness whose AoF gives Hatred which the unit already has because Uriah is attached.

Oooh, good call. Her act is very specific.

I love that it allows you completely bypass slay the warlord by not using the faith power. I'm not entirely sure that was unintentional as well.

"Yay! We killed Celestine!"
"Are we sure? Did anyone see a body? Doesn't she usually just get right back up?"
"Umm...."

I don't know that I'd ever do it to anyone not expecting it, but it is still cool.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And Canoness should have given out the Passion from Codex: Chapter Approved. IIRC, it was +2 Initiative and +1 Attack. Hatred is just silly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I totally didn't notice that you roll Celestine's check immediately until now. I thought it was for the next turn. That's a nice bit.

I other news, I figured we now need some tokens to keep track of which units have used their Acts and (if you've got a Sim) how many Acts you have left. I just ordered a bunch of these:
https://www.etsy.com/listing/72713896/12-fleur-de-lis-charms-silver-beaded

They have a bunch of other little options (I think they're for charm bracelets).
https://www.etsy.com/search?q=fleur+de+lys+pendant

flamingkillamajig wrote:@Lynata: No it was a different avatar. It was less frightening and more ridiculous like she was half-way through eating a hamburger with a stuffed face while blurting out 'Heresy' excitedly.

Oh don't get me wrong there's good anime out there. I enjoyed 'gungrave' (I think I heard it was made by the creators of trigon). I also watched half of 'monster' before I decided the anime could've wrapped up in about half as much time. I've watched two seasons of shakugan no shana and enjoyed it. It's just that I've seen some sites for anime and watching the release of harem #246531 kind of dampens my spirits and takes away any respect I have left for anime. There are some I've been meaning to watch. I think it was called 'Take on Titans' or 'Take on giants'. Ugh but I can't remember the name. I just don't like sifting through the turds to get to the gems of anime. Now for some reason I remember that funny scene in south park where cartman eat the fake treasure and poops it out at the end of the episode.

Attack On Titan, and it's both excellent and somewhat disturbing. Very grimdark though.

Pretre - while her standing back up immediately may sound like a good thing, all it means is that she gets killed again before you get to use her since she's probably one of the first things that gets killed during the turn.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I think it's deliberate. Shredding Flamers is on the "Kaldor Draigo Fluff Power" level of broken in 6e, so being able to do it twice...

You're kidding right ?

 pretre wrote:
Silly Question: Celestine dies and comes back once. Jacobus joins Celestine so they make a unit of two. Jacobus joined, so in this case he's the IC who joined. Can he allow her to come back twice?

RAW, yes, no doubt. I thought about it. The only thing is that it's EXTREMELY situational. But it can win you a game .

 Troike wrote:
even though I had some good counter-points to make.

If you think it's worth it, MP me. Else, don't bother, it's okay .

I was thinking of using Fleur-de-Lys icons mounted on regular bases or perhaps the little cherub models or something.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Pretre - while her standing back up immediately may sound like a good thing

She doesn't. You roll for the Act of Faith straight after she dies. Is she fail the test, you can just put her back into her case, and go crying in a corner. If she passes it, you put a marker. She comes back at the beginning of next turn.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I think it's deliberate. Shredding Flamers is on the "Kaldor Draigo Fluff Power" level of broken in 6e, so being able to do it twice...

You're kidding right ?

The Mechanicum do not joke.

No, seriously. Those hand flamers tear through pretty much any infantry in the game, the bigger the target squad the better... and in 6e, the transports that would protect targets from it just aren't around as much.

I'm planing on using more WM Trollblood tokens. The fury tokens I use for both kind of HP. I guess I'll use continuous effects and/or knockdown tokens for Acts of Faith.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Those hand flamers tear through pretty much any infantry in the game

Ahem MARINES ahem.
If killing 10 marines with 5 shredding flamers AND 10 twin-linked bolter shoots was something exceptional that I felt so happy about, I'm pretty sure 4 shredding flamers aren't going to do much.

Re-rolling hand flamers are pretty nifty. A full blast from a Seraphim squad can expect to kill about 7 MEQs in the average case. That's some pretty serious firepower. You can charge the scraps to finish them off or try and use them as a Hit and Run launch pad.

What Amerikon said. My Seraphim squad carried my entire game against a Marine Horde - I had an all-comers casual army, so I had far too many anti-armour weapons to sanely deal with that many Space Marines.

Amerikon wrote:
A full blast from a Seraphim squad can expect to kill about 7 MEQs in the average case.

Really ? I never tried them because I always preferred inferno pistol, can they be that good ?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Amerikon wrote:
A full blast from a Seraphim squad can expect to kill about 7 MEQs in the average case.

Really ? I never tried them because I always preferred inferno pistol, can they be that good ?

They really, really are that good. They're best against Orks and GEq, but they still murder Marine squads with impunity. Putting a plasma pistol on the Superior helps too.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Amerikon wrote:
A full blast from a Seraphim squad can expect to kill about 7 MEQs in the average case.

Really ? I never tried them because I always preferred inferno pistol, can they be that good ?

I like to call them my "flying bucket of dice". Depending on how the other guy's models are grouped I can usually expect to get 4 or 5 under each template. That gives you somewhere between 16 and 20 hits from your 4 Hand Flamers. That gives you 9 to 11 wounds (assuming re-rolls from Shred). Now you've got 16 shredding Bolt Pistol shots which should pile on another 9 wounds. So 18 to 20 wounds against 3+ gives an average case of 6 or 7 dead Marines.

Sometimes I'll toss a frag grenade in there for fun. And of course, if St Celestine is tagging along (and why wouldn't she be) you've got an extra S5 shredding flamer. They're pretty mean. If we could take a jump Canoness I'd be tempted to run two units of them. It's a damn shame that they're the only unit that can't take a Simulacrum.

I thought the seraphim could only take two hand flamer upgrades? If that is correct you can only fire one weapon per turn - so how does that equal 4 flamer templates hitting? Just asking because I did not think unless it specifically states (like tau suits or monstrous creatures) that you could only fire one weapon per turn..

You upgrade so that they have two hand flamers each. They're pistols so they can both be fired as per the Gunslinger ability. I think prior to 6E there was a specific allowance for Seras to fire two pistol weapons.

Once upon a time, Seraphim could choose whether to fire both their bolt pistols or hand flamers, or to combine their hand flamers to form a flamer. After third edition hit, they lost the ability to take as many hand flamers as they wanted and fire both weapons, and instead simply twin-linked their weapons. Once C:WH came into play, their twin hand flamer upgrade was downgraded to a single flamer.

Then the White Dwarf codex restored our ability to fire our hand flamers as hand flamers, and the seraphim pistols rule was changed back to allowing them to fire both pistols separately, instead of as a twin-linked weapon. Finally, after 6th edition hit, the ability to fire two pistols at once became a universal truth, and the Seraphim Pistols rule and much of the unit's badass character was swept away... but their killing power remained the same.

Then the digital codex arrived, and now our hand flamers are half the price they used to be (now costing the same as a flamer for a hand flamer, instead of twice the price for a less powerful weapon...)

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Then the digital codex arrived, and now our hand flamers are half the price they used to be (now costing the same as a flamer for a hand flamer, instead of twice the price for a less powerful weapon...)

Yet the inferno pistol still cost five point more than a melta while being inferior .

Honestly, I don't like the e-books. For me to use them I'd either have to buy an iPad or print the whole damned book out so I can have it handy at home building my army and away on the field while fighting. Neither of which I'll be doing.

I printed for 8$ at a print shop. add in 3$ for a binder and 3$ for page protectors and works great.

 conker249 wrote:
I printed for 8$ at a print shop. add in 3$ for a binder and 3$ for page protectors and works great.

yeah, I've been editing my to make it the format I want and then am going to do th same.

 conker249 wrote:
I printed for 8$ at a print shop. add in 3$ for a binder and 3$ for page protectors and works great.

I appologize for sounding stupid, but maybe not as tech savy. How do you print it off from an I-Pad, because like many of you I find the printed version more helpful..
Thanks and cheers


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I like the idea of the seraphim, but they compete with the dominion squads which are nice too.

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:

 conker249 wrote:
I printed for 8$ at a print shop. add in 3$ for a binder and 3$ for page protectors and works great.

I appologize for sounding stupid, but maybe not as tech savy. How do you print it off from an I-Pad, because like many of you I find the printed version more helpful..
Thanks and cheers

You'd have to find a way to save it locally. Most of us probably have the epub/mobi version which is easier to print.

ah got ya.... so I am probably SOL..
Thanks for the help and input though ! Cheers

A quick google of 'How to print ipad books' found some hits:

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-print-from-your-ipad.html

I have a couple of games now under my belt with the new codex and have a couple of thoughts...

St. Celestine is pretty much dead to me now. The real reason to keep her around was to have that decent CC character who just wouldn't go away. Now she is actually fairly easy to get rid of and isn't good enough in CC when she gets there to actually accomplish anything, not that she changed that much from the last codex. Her warlord trait is...useless considering how easy it is to flood the field with Laud Hailers on vehicles the difference between a 10 with rerolls and a 9 with rerolls isn't THAT big.

Uriah Jacobus is alright, I have been mostly fielding him in a backfield HB Retributor squad so they can get 3 turns of rending every game. This plan has served me decently in the games I have played but I can also see him being nice in other uses as well. Overall he is still a decent HQ choice.

Canoness is as she has always been, mediocre without much room for customization. The new relics are great but only being able to take ONE of them on any character kinda kills them for me. So I can't make my Canoness EW AND have an awesome melee weapon? Well there goes any melee viability.

Typically Battle Sisters squads stayed about the same. PE once a game is nice for when I drop my Flamer/Heavy Flamer 9 man squads out of the rhino and burn the heretics, works decently well even against Terminators. Overall still a decent troop choice.

Still haven't used Celestines. No interest in a poor melee squad.

Repentia look like they could be okay? I would put a squad of ten in a Rhino, use their AoF the turn they have to spend sitting around before charging. I don't know, don't have the models, never tried em, can't really judge.

Seraphim are awesome. Love having four flame templates in a group, tons of bolt pistols, all with shred. Killed a deamon prince in a game with JUST these guys. Tons of shooting, then was able to actually tarpit decently well with a 6++ reroll save. My last two Seraphim took off the last wound.

Dominion squads. 5 man squad with four meltas outflanking in an Immolator with MM and can ignore cover? What is NOT to like?!

Retributors can no longer add rending to a quad cannon which kinda sucks but I still think that 4 rending HB's is good enough to warrant a heavy slot. Maybe I am living in the past but I like these girls but would only ever put them with HB.

Exorcist are still the work horse of the army, these things get gak done. Sure sometimes they can't roll above a one all game but sometimes you get a six on that group of terminators and just eat them up, even doubling out any IC they might have attached.

Never fielded Penitent Engines but I have a thing against melee based vehicles like these guys and mauler fiends. If you get unlucky they can blow up first turn, or immobilized, or any other number of bad things...Maybe if I had some to field I would give them a try but I doubt I would like them. Personal preference though.

Priest and Battle Conclaves are the new bread and butter of this army. The idea of fielding 50 Arco Flagellents with 5 priest with power mauls just excites me, all for 700 points. That is a lot of bodies, a lot of melee power, and you still have plenty of points left to field Exorcist and Battle Sister squads. War Hymns are awesome, they make Sisters into tar pits, priest into vehicle/TEQ killers, or make Arco Flagellents even MORE blendery. Love everything about this EXCEPT they are not actually sisters...

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
Her warlord trait is...useless considering how easy it is to flood the field with Laud Hailers on vehicles the difference between a 10 with rerolls and a 9 with rerolls isn't THAT big.

She doesn't cost 10 points a pop though.

The new relics are great but only being able to take ONE of them on any character kinda kills them for me. So I can't make my Canoness EW AND have an awesome melee weapon? Well there goes any melee viability.

EW and the Eviscerator aren't bad. Or the reroll one and the Eviscerator.

Repentia look like they could be okay? I would put a squad of ten in a Rhino, use their AoF the turn they have to spend sitting around before charging. I don't know, don't have the models, never tried em, can't really judge.

Their act only works in the assault phase.

Retributors can no longer add rending to a quad cannon which kinda sucks but I still think that 4 rending HB's is good enough to warrant a heavy slot. Maybe I am living in the past but I like these girls but would only ever put them with HB.

Why can't they rend a quad? Also, Bastion Rets. Learn it, love it.

Priest and Battle Conclaves ... Love everything about this EXCEPT they are not actually sisters...

Conversion possibilities! Sisters of Sigmar, other company minis, etc. Make them sisters.

 pretre wrote:
A quick google of 'How to print ipad books' found some hits:

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-print-from-your-ipad.html

Hey thanks a lot Wow thanks for the foot work!




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I really like the idea of them in Bastions as two can fire out a fire point and other sisters can man the heavy bolters - even more rending awesomsauce.

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
I really like the idea of them in Bastions as two can fire out a fire point and other sisters can man the heavy bolters - even more rending awesomsauce.

2 Per Fire Point (Page 93).

Depending on how you assembled the Bastion and which side you're looking out, you can get 2-3 Fire Points and 1-2 emplaced Heavy Bolters. Which is 5-6 HB against a unit. (You could get a max of 8 if a unit completely surrounded the bastion, but that's REALLLY unlikely)

Also, don't forget that any HB that aren't fired by the unit get to auto-fire at the nearest enemy unit.

 pretre wrote:

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
Her warlord trait is...useless considering how easy it is to flood the field with Laud Hailers on vehicles the difference between a 10 with rerolls and a 9 with rerolls isn't THAT big.

She doesn't cost 10 points a pop though.

The new relics are great but only being able to take ONE of them on any character kinda kills them for me. So I can't make my Canoness EW AND have an awesome melee weapon? Well there goes any melee viability.

EW and the Eviscerator aren't bad. Or the reroll one and the Eviscerator.

Repentia look like they could be okay? I would put a squad of ten in a Rhino, use their AoF the turn they have to spend sitting around before charging. I don't know, don't have the models, never tried em, can't really judge.

Their act only works in the assault phase.

Retributors can no longer add rending to a quad cannon which kinda sucks but I still think that 4 rending HB's is good enough to warrant a heavy slot. Maybe I am living in the past but I like these girls but would only ever put them with HB.

Why can't they rend a quad? Also, Bastion Rets. Learn it, love it.

Priest and Battle Conclaves ... Love everything about this EXCEPT they are not actually sisters...

Conversion possibilities! Sisters of Sigmar, other company minis, etc. Make them sisters.

She doesn't cost 10 points a pop, she just cost as much as thirteen of them. Plus the Seraphim squad that she will undoubtedly be taking with her.

Canoness with an Eviscerator and EW is not that scary in CC against any other CC character the game can throw at you. Nor is a reroll with an Eviscerator. She is not good at Melee, she doesn't really shoot, she doesn't have much in the ways of buffs, her AoF is garbage considering Priest give it ALL THE TIME...Yet I still run a Canoness, I call her my HQ tax.

Okay, Repentia are bad. Anyone with a quarter of a brain wont let them get close to melee and they aren't exactly going to survive with t3 6++.

The new wording of the Retibutor AoF says, "[...] all weapons in the Retributor's unti gain the Rending special rule[...]" So only the weapons IN the unit get the benefit as opposed to the old wording which said the units weapons. It was questionable under the WD codex but now it is fairly explicit.

Overall I feel like this codex weakend units that exist, took away options, but made most options cheaper. It is a bad codex objectively because of the rules AND the writing which is riddled with errors, but I still intend to play my Sisters and have even won a couple of games with the new codex. It is just a crap codex that removed options and made things weaker with little insight into how they want the army to work, they put out a codex just to put out a codex so they could make money. Not that I am suprised that GW would do that.

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
She doesn't cost 10 points a pop, she just cost as much as thirteen of them. Plus the Seraphim squad that she will undoubtedly be taking with her.

She doesn't need Seraphim to be useful. She can glom onto a foot Sister Squad and still do good work.

Canoness with an Eviscerator and EW is not that scary in CC against any other CC character the game can throw at you. Nor is a reroll with an Eviscerator. She is not good at Melee, she doesn't really shoot, she doesn't have much in the ways of buffs, her AoF is garbage considering Priest give it ALL THE TIME...Yet I still run a Canoness, I call her my HQ tax.

I don't disagree but you said she had no CC options, that one gives her an okay option against some CC units.

The new wording of the Retibutor AoF says, "[...] all weapons in the Retributor's unti gain the Rending special rule[...]" So only the weapons IN the unit get the benefit as opposed to the old wording which said the units weapons. It was questionable under the WD codex but now it is fairly explicit.

I disagree, but this is largely a HWYPI issue.

Overall I feel like this codex weakend units that exist, took away options, but made most options cheaper. It is a bad codex objectively because of the rules AND the writing which is riddled with errors, but I still intend to play my Sisters and have even won a couple of games with the new codex. It is just a crap codex that removed options and made things weaker with little insight into how they want the army to work, they put out a codex just to put out a codex so they could make money. Not that I am suprised that GW would do that.

This I flat out disagree with and have made my points on the issue clear in this thread and others. I'm not going to retread it yet again.

It does not make a lot of sense to me. I mean Sisters have always been kind of a hard to get army, because brick and mortar stores never carried them, but GW has an opportunity now to make plastics and get them out to the stores, I was hoping for more in the codex too. There are things I am happy about, but was really hoping for something that could skyfire, but alas no.

 pretre wrote:

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
She doesn't cost 10 points a pop, she just cost as much as thirteen of them. Plus the Seraphim squad that she will undoubtedly be taking with her.

She doesn't need Seraphim to be useful. She can glom onto a foot Sister Squad and still do good work.

Canoness with an Eviscerator and EW is not that scary in CC against any other CC character the game can throw at you. Nor is a reroll with an Eviscerator. She is not good at Melee, she doesn't really shoot, she doesn't have much in the ways of buffs, her AoF is garbage considering Priest give it ALL THE TIME...Yet I still run a Canoness, I call her my HQ tax.

I don't disagree but you said she had no CC options, that one gives her an okay option against some CC units.

The new wording of the Retibutor AoF says, "[...] all weapons in the Retributor's unti gain the Rending special rule[...]" So only the weapons IN the unit get the benefit as opposed to the old wording which said the units weapons. It was questionable under the WD codex but now it is fairly explicit.

I disagree, but this is largely a HWYPI issue.

Overall I feel like this codex weakend units that exist, took away options, but made most options cheaper. It is a bad codex objectively because of the rules AND the writing which is riddled with errors, but I still intend to play my Sisters and have even won a couple of games with the new codex. It is just a crap codex that removed options and made things weaker with little insight into how they want the army to work, they put out a codex just to put out a codex so they could make money. Not that I am suprised that GW would do that.

This I flat out disagree with and have made my points on the issue clear in this thread and others. I'm not going to retread it yet again.

And that is fair, I am not advocating that Sisters are dead and no one should play them, I don't play armies for power. Maybe its because I just got off the, "Ohh my favorite army was rolled into another codex and are now just black Ultramarines without any of the benefits!" that is making me a bit more bitter than usual. I love my Sisters, I will keep playing my Sisters, but this codex is a mess and my only hope is that it is a TRUE hold over until they get a real codex, not another WD situation.

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
I love my Sisters, I will keep playing my Sisters, but this codex is a mess and my only hope is that it is a TRUE hold over until they get a real codex, not another WD situation.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I've been saying this for 15 years.

 pretre wrote:

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
I love my Sisters, I will keep playing my Sisters, but this codex is a mess and my only hope is that it is a TRUE hold over until they get a real codex, not another WD situation.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I've been saying this for 15 years.

In my opinion GW don't take sisters seriously they don't have a "proper" codex and with this new release no plastic models not even the HQ I mean really now? I talked with many people and they said they would buy sisters if they had some plastic models.

shinros wrote:

 pretre wrote:

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
I love my Sisters, I will keep playing my Sisters, but this codex is a mess and my only hope is that it is a TRUE hold over until they get a real codex, not another WD situation.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I've been saying this for 15 years.

In my opinion GW don't take sisters seriously they don't have a "proper" codex and with this new release no plastic models not even the HQ I mean really now? I talked with many people and they said they would buy sisters if they had some plastic models.

And again with the same statement. I could just cut and paste at this point. lol

Maybe we need to all send an email to GW enmass in a 1-2 day time period and maybe they will get it through their skulls to take sister seriously...?

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
Maybe we need to all send an email to GW enmass in a 1-2 day time period and maybe they will get it through their skulls to take sister seriously...?

lol. Yeah, no. If the digital sales and success of this codex don't show them anything... and if the success of the line over the last 15 years doesn't show them anything... etc, so on.

Short of breaking into a boardroom meeting, I doubt you're going to change their mind on their current course.

shinros wrote:
In my opinion GW don't take sisters seriously they don't have a "proper" codex and with this new release no plastic models not even the HQ I mean really now? I talked with many people and they said they would buy sisters if they had some plastic models.

The Sisters had modelling issues. They couldn't "just make them", despite wanting to, until recently, apparently. GW employees have said this at events.

And I'll say it again, it's my opinion that this digital codex is just a stopgap until those plastics are ready.

pretre wrote:Short of breaking into a boardroom meeting, I doubt you're going to change their mind on their current course.

"For all their gaiety on occasion, the Gamers of the Sisters were still hardened nerds, and when the Executive Management of Games Workshop tried to have the Codex downgraded a few years later to rid themselves of the army, the Gamers went into the Management's meeting chambers, locked the doors, and emerged an hour later carrying the severed heads of every executive present."

 Lynata wrote:

pretre wrote:Short of breaking into a boardroom meeting, I doubt you're going to change their mind on their current course.

"For all their gaiety on occasion, the Gamers of the Sisters were still hardened nerds, and when the Executive Management of Games Workshop tried to have the Codex downgraded a few years later to rid themselves of the army, the Gamers went into the Management's meeting chambers, locked the doors, and emerged an hour later carrying the severed heads of every executive present."

Then the Gamers cleansed themselves in fire fore the taint of Management was upon them.

Pretre, your'e sounding like me

 Melissia wrote:
Pretre, your'e sounding like me

I was here first.

And I used to wonder why people said Sisters players are all grouchy whiners.


(just some friendly ribbing!)

Grouchy certainly, but whiny? Dunno, I find Chaos Marine players to be by far the whiniest.

Can't ever make them happy

 ClockworkZion wrote:
And I used to wonder why people said Sisters players are all grouchy whiners.
(just some friendly ribbing!)

I'm not grouchy. I am simply resigned to my fate. As long as I have played the army, we have had metal models and a hold over codex. I do not expect that to change anytime soon. I am simply happy with what I get, which is hopefully a slightly better hold over than the previous one.

 Melissia wrote:
Grouchy certainly, but whiny? Dunno, I find Chaos Marine players to be by far the whiniest.

Can't ever make them happy

I'd argue the Black Templar players (at least recently) have trumped any lamenting I've seen from Sisters.

Honestly I was referencing a stereotype anyways, so it's not really that true.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pretre wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
And I used to wonder why people said Sisters players are all grouchy whiners.
(just some friendly ribbing!)

I'm not grouchy. I am simply resigned to my fate. As long as I have played the army, we have had metal models and a hold over codex. I do not expect that to change anytime soon. I am simply happy with what I get, which is hopefully a slightly better hold over than the previous one.

I'm naturally a grump but I try to be a friendly grump.

I also assume when I get a codex it'll be rolled in crap, wrapped in razorwire and then set on fire before being handed to me. So I set my expectations REALLY low. I think it's made me more reasonable to deal with since I'm rarely right about how bad something will be making my mood about it pretty good.

That is a smart idea, it is GW we are dealing with. It is best to set the bar REALLY REALLY LOW and then we won't be as disappointed. Then as GW tells us, we can "forge a narrative" and make the game all flowers and candy... lol

Or we could 'Forge a Narrative' out of their bones...

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Or we could 'Forge a Narrative' out of their bones...

But who do we know is is able to engrave litanies that small?

I feel a sudden urge to label a Simulacrum as "St. Hoare"...

You give me the craziest ideas.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Or we could 'Forge a Narrative' out of their bones...

But who do we know is is able to engrave litanies that small?

There's a machine that'll do it at my old workplace. Since we're going for murder, a little unauthorised requisitioning isn't too much of a problem.

 Troike wrote:

shinros wrote:
In my opinion GW don't take sisters seriously they don't have a "proper" codex and with this new release no plastic models not even the HQ I mean really now? I talked with many people and they said they would buy sisters if they had some plastic models.

The Sisters had modelling issues. They couldn't "just make them", despite wanting to, until recently, apparently. GW employees have said this at events.

And I'll say it again, it's my opinion that this digital codex is just a stopgap until those plastics are ready.

Ok, now it's starting to feel like when I read that book some religion hold holy. I.e. I'm wondering if this is really something new, or if I'm actually just re-reading something I already read .

 ClockworkZion wrote:
And I used to wonder why people said Sisters players are all grouchy whiners.

I'm playing Sisters of Bitter, what can I say ?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Ok, now it's starting to feel like when I read that book some religion hold holy. I.e. I'm wondering if this is really something new, or if I'm actually just re-reading something I already read .

But it's still applicable. A person wondered why there weren't any plastics yet, and I pointed out what the devs had said on the matter.

 Troike wrote:
But it's still applicable.

I know. And I'll still burn in hell, too .

So what is the general consensus for the quality of the new codex? As in is it well written, balanced and/or looking like a fun army to play at the moment?

Depends. There's basically two camps from what I can tell:

"This codex is better than the WD codex, and looks to be more balanced, and more fun to play."

"This codex sucks, I hate everything in it and think that it's woefully underpowered."

I say it is very poorly edited, lacking in units, but what it does have is actually pretty decent overall. Like my priests, like my new AoF rules.

Also the new 5 man squads make the army playable for me now. I do plan on buying 2 more Exorcists since that model is beautiful, effective, and crazy cheap ($$) for what you get.

I think it is better written than the last codex, it just still is missing so many things (no flyer or no skyfire), St. Celestine Nerfed, Cannonness better, uriah decent, I think some of the faiths and littanies re pretty good.
I really wish they would have made the Penitent engine a Monstrous creature beast so that it could move. . I really think if it could move it could be viably played

 Melissia wrote:
Depends. There's basically two camps from what I can tell:

"This codex is better than the WD codex, and looks to be more balanced, and more fun to play."

"This codex sucks, I hate everything in it and think that it's woefully underpowered."

And that about sums up every new codex discussion on Dakka...

Skriker

I'm.... still not a fan of AoF being one use by default. I'm not a fan of having priests be, basically, required for any unit you can stick one in.

Really not fond of the Celestine nerf.

The rest? It's ok to decent, but there's less synergy and more just taking multiples of the same unit builds, MSU-style, as the points limit increases, because once you have a unit that can do its thing well, it's kind of a one trick pony, so you're going to need more ponies to keep doing that same trick. Even with the SImulacrum giving you another AoF, you're still going to need MSU to take on the bulk of other army builds in 6th, as unless the dice-gods are with you, after your one trick, the unit that pulls that trick off is going to get shot to pieces.

I think what they've done, overall, is make the Sisters a solid mid-tier army with no good counters against a lot of things appearing in the meta of 6th edition, and very limited options against a lot of standard army builds out there now. Being mid-tier is not so bad, but being rather extremely limited against a lot of the things that are seen in even random battles is... kind of not good. Sure, you can take allies, but, eh, that's just patching a hole that shouldn't be there in the first place.

An army doesn't need to be *awesome* against flyers (for example), but every army should have a unit of some kind that makes that its primary role, whether it's an infantry unit with some sort of SAM weapon, an AA vehicle, an MC with anti-air weapons, whatever.

I don't hate it, I just think it's rather lackluster, as Codices go.

 Psienesis wrote:
The rest? It's ok to decent, but there's less synergy and more just taking multiples of the same unit builds, MSU-style, as the points limit increases, because once you have a unit that can do its thing well, it's kind of a one trick pony, so you're going to need more ponies to keep doing that same trick. Even with the SImulacrum giving you another AoF, you're still going to need MSU to take on the bulk of other army builds in 6th, as unless the dice-gods are with you, after your one trick, the unit that pulls that trick off is going to get shot to pieces.

Umm, you know that one of the main lists that people are playing with is not MSU, right? It's blob squads for solid center with fire support.

I think what they've done, overall, is make the Sisters a solid mid-tier army with no good counters against a lot of things appearing in the meta of 6th edition, and very limited options against a lot of standard army builds out there now.

The new book is awesome against the meta right now. Screamerstar, councilstar, Riptide spam, Wraithknights and WS? All good counters to those. Flyers are really the only problem and exorcists help with that.

So far, and this may just be my experiences in a handful of games, is that mobbing up is just asking to get blast-templated off the table. Then again, artillery and ordnance is a thing with the IG players around here, or allying it in.

Space Wolves continue to be the pain in my ass they have been for the last 2 editions... not as bad as they were before, but still have far too many heavy weapons on the table for too few points for my, or my Exorcist's, liking.

I might need to break down and buy another tank or three... but that's going to depend on having spare scratch.

where does it say dominions have scout?

everyone is talking like they do, but my ebook doesnt have it listed for them

edit: NVM, found it

Yeah it is in the Army list section it says scout. Which is nice for things that ignore cover and want to get close. In this edition I am having a hard time, the dominions are awesome, but so are the seraphims, I just wish they had made them at least I4 to compete with Space Marines.