J.J. Abrams and “Star Wars” veteran Lawrence Kasdan have taken over screenwriting duties on “Star Wars: Episode VII,” replacing “Toy Story 3″-scribe Michael Arndt, who was originally hired to pen the project.
“I am very excited about the story we have in place and thrilled to have Larry and J.J. working on the script,” said Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy. “There are very few people who fundamentally understand the way a ‘Star Wars’ story works like Larry, and it is nothing short of incredible to have him even more deeply involved in its return to the big screen. J.J. of course is an incredible storyteller in his own right. Michael Arndt has done a terrific job bringing us to this point and we have an amazing filmmaking and design team in place already prepping for production.”
Disney and Lucasfilm released the news on StarWars.com.
The companies announced Arndt (whose credits also include “Little Miss Sunshine”) was hired on the project in November 2012, an announcement they also made on StarWars.com. To land the job, Arndt wrote a 40- to 50-page treatment for the film.
Shooting on “Episode VII” is scheduled to begin Spring 2014 at Pinewood Studios for an expected 2015 release.
Kasdan had been serving as a consultant on the film, and has had a long relationship with Lucasfilm, having written the screenplays for “Raiders of the Lost Ark” and co-written “The Empire Strikes Back” and “Return of the Jedi.”
The screenwriter was brought on last fall by George Lucas to write and produce future installments of the “Star Wars” saga. Simon Kinberg is also developing upcoming “Star Wars” pics to produce.
Disney and Lucasfilm added that location scouting, production design, casting, and costume design are already underway on “Episode VII” with Dan Mindel (“Mission: Impossible III,” “Star Trek,” “Star Trek Into Darkness”) serving as director of photography; and Rick Carter (“Lincoln,” “Avatar”) and Darren Gilford (“Oblivion,” “Tron: Legacy”) as production designers.
Michael Kaplan (“Star Trek Into Darkness”) serves as costume designer, while Chris Corbould (“Skyfall,” “The Dark Knight Rises”) will serve as special effects supervisor, with Roger Guyett (“Star Trek Into Darkness” and “Star Wars: Episode III Revenge of the Sith”) as visual effects supervisor at Industrial Light & Magic.
“Star Wars” franchise vet Ben Burtt returns as sound designer, with Gary Rydstrom (“Jurassic Park”) tapped as re-recording mixer and Skywalker Sound’s Matthew Wood (“Star Trek Into Darkness”) as supervising sound editor.
Kennedy, Abrams, and Bryan Burk are producing, with Tommy Harper and Jason McGatlin serving as executive producers.
John Williams is returning to the series to score the soundtrack.
Shooting is scheduled to begin Spring 2014 at Pinewood Studios, in the U.K., for an expected 2015 release.
Yeah, this. ST: Into Darkness was not only a poor film in its own right, it also made a joke of the original it was 'based on'. I really, really hope he doesn't do the same to Star Wars (as then he would be responsible for ruining 2 of the greatest franchises ever, and the trekkies and warsians would unite in their rage.)
My thought process about this film is basically along these lines:
Disney -> POTC/ Avengers franchises -> JJ Abrams -> ST: ID -> Therefore ...
Yeah, this. ST: Into Darkness was not only a poor film in its own right, it also made a joke of the original it was 'based on'. I really, really hope he doesn't do the same to Star Wars (as then he would be responsible for ruining 2 of the greatest franchises ever, and the trekkies and warsians would unite in their rage.)
My thought process about this film is basically along these lines:
Disney -> POTC/ Avengers franchises -> JJ Abrams -> ST: ID -> Therefore ...
Well if its post SW he's not messing with canon so a lot of that is out. He's good with action etc (ironically doesn't seem very good with big space battles at least to moi, but thats hard to do). Could we pay off Michael Stracynski and have him do any space battles? (and maybe sneak in a shadow cruiser...).
Also get some manlier men. All the ST guys looked like they couldn't bench press a flea of be seen outside with a mocha latte and a manicure.
The Star Trek reboot was the first Star Trek thing I ever watched. Into Darkness was the second. Both were decent. I'm told this is because I have no idea what the original source material is, but I question just how good movies with tubby AARP members wandering around bad sets in form-fitting shirts could possibly have been.
Frazzled wrote: Yes, I cannot express the level of nerdrage I had with that movie. Interestingly, the wife who knows not the greatness of Wrath of Khan, liked it.
Seaward wrote: The Star Trek reboot was the first Star Trek thing I ever watched. Into Darkness was the second. Both were decent. I'm told this is because I have no idea what the original source material is, but I question just how good movies with tubby AARP members wandering around bad sets in form-fitting shirts could possibly have been.
Yes, I cannot express the level of nerdrage I had with that movie. Interestingly, the wife who knows not the greatness of Wrath of Khan, liked it.
My wife has seen Wrath several times(several years before any Abrams Trek was released, I make sure she knows these things) and still likes Into Darkness.
Yes, I cannot express the level of nerdrage I had with that movie. Interestingly, the wife who knows not the greatness of Wrath of Khan, liked it.
Is it bad of me that I (and my wife) actually enjoyed WoK Redux? (Into Darkness basically being Wrath )
The good news for JJ Abrams, is that with Star Wars, there are Jedi, and with Jedi are Lightsabers, and with Lightsabers there are about a Billion and a half opportunities for a lens flair shot.
I anticipate a collaboration between Abrams and Bay. Nothing but explosions and lens flares as far as the eye can see, all culminating in the ultimate lens flaresplosion.
I anticipate a collaboration between Abrams and Bay. Nothing but explosions and lens flares as far as the eye can see, all culminating in the ultimate lens flaresplosion.
The amount of fire power being thrown around with blasters from Storm Troopers the safest place is in the cross hair unless its Han on the trigger and sitting at a table....
Hrmm I liked the new trek. There were some things at which I cringed... but meh thats probably just a part of me getting older and not keeping up with whats new and shiny for all of the kids.
I'm usually fairly accepting of stuff too, so I wouldn't make a great critic. Flying through space in a jetpack.... could have done without that though. Really really could have done without that. I mean I sat through most of the newer star wars without complaining. Explaining the force as bacteria and vader's nigh-impotent noooooooo... however...
We'll see, will give me something to do for an afternoon anyway.
I anticipate a collaboration between Abrams and Bay. Nothing but explosions and lens flares as far as the eye can see, all culminating in the ultimate lens flaresplosion.
Decades from now, someone will discover the link between Star Wars fandom post-2015 and blindness or other eye conditions.
I hope this is a step in the right direction. Too bad they don't have Irvin Kerschner around to direct it. PLEASE refrain from using lens flares!.
As for the Trek reboots, The first one was ok, I could live with that. The second one was just absolute gak. Abrams took what Star Trek is and gutted it, stapled lens flares everywhere, and had a 13 year old write the script.
Seaward, if you want to see the essence of what Star Trek is, just start with the Original Series, and go from there. TOS lays the foundation for the future shows which improve upon. I would say DS9 is my favorite for the character development and interaction. Also for the chance to see the darker side of the Federation.
The one redeeming thing about JJ is that he put the adventure back into Star Trek. That was missing all they way since the original TV show. The "next gen" movies all felt like television episodes shown on the big screen, too. Can't say that about JJ's films.
Breotan wrote: The one redeeming thing about JJ is that he put the adventure back into Star Trek. That was missing all they way since the original TV show. The "next gen" movies all felt like television episodes shown on the big screen, too. Can't say that about JJ's films.
Yeah, but using multiple, stretched out action scenes to cover up plot holes and a bad story, is a time honoured film maker's trick. See the films of Michael Bay for more details!
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KingCracker wrote: I'm expecting the new STARWARS to be fun again at least. And that's hugely important
I bet you watched Phantom Menace 10 times, with each time you hoped the previous screening was a bad dream you'd wake up from.
Guess I'm just a bad nerd, because I really liked the JJ Abrams Star Trek movies. The only Star Trek I had seen before that was a handful of episodes from each TV series, none of which I had really been able to get into.
Of course, I also have trouble enjoying much Doctor Who from before season 5(I even liked season 6!), which according to basically everybody I've ever talked to makes me valid for labeling as mentally challenged.
Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote: Guess I'm just a bad nerd, because I really liked the JJ Abrams Star Trek movies. The only Star Trek I had seen before that was a handful of episodes from each TV series, none of which I had really been able to get into.
Of course, I also have trouble enjoying much Doctor Who from before season 5(I even liked season 6!), which according to basically everybody I've ever talked makes me valid for labeling as mentally challenged.
~Tim?
Lol, minus the Dr. Who thing, I'm in the same boat as you. I am loving the ST reboot. IMO, it is closer to what a 22nd or 23rd Century Starship should look like
It does a big disservice to equate JJ to the level of badness of Michael Bay and George Lucas. Lucas is a terrible film maker when allowed to play dictator like he has the least 20 years. Michael Bay... Well at least JJ can effectively hide the plot holes with filmmakers tricks. Bay can't even get that right.
Breotan wrote: The one redeeming thing about JJ is that he put the adventure back into Star Trek. That was missing all they way since the original TV show. The "next gen" movies all felt like television episodes shown on the big screen, too. Can't say that about JJ's films.
Yeah, but using multiple, stretched out action scenes to cover up plot holes and a bad story, is a time honoured film maker's trick. See the films of Michael Bay for more details!
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KingCracker wrote: I'm expecting the new STARWARS to be fun again at least. And that's hugely important
I bet you watched Phantom Menace 10 times, with each time you hoped the previous screening was a bad dream you'd wake up from.
That's fairly true. The only thing I took away from that film was that Darth Maul was robbed by Lucas and his good awful writing
Buyers of a rare LaserDisc used to demonstrate an 80s-vintage film editing system have found it full of raw footage from Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi, graciously posting clips to a Facebook account over the course of the past several days. Most of the clips are from Luke Skywalker's last visit to Yoda on Dagobah, but another gem features a full minute (without audio, unfortunately) of R2-D2 repairing Skywalker's damaged X-wing
The origin of the LaserDisc isn't entirely clear, but it was purchased for $699 off eBay, apparently once used to demonstrate Lucasfilm's EditDroid station — one of the first digital film editing systems sold nearly 30 years ago. Ironically, George Lucas himself never used EditDroid to make a movie; the Star Wars clips were loaded simply to show off its capabilities to prospective buyers.
Lucasfilm, of course, is no stranger to fiercely protecting Star Wars copyrights, and it's reasonable to assume the disc buyer's clips may not stay online for long — particularly considering that they'd make a great addition to a future Blu-ray bundle.
Breotan wrote: The one redeeming thing about JJ is that he put the adventure back into Star Trek. That was missing all they way since the original TV show. The "next gen" movies all felt like television episodes shown on the big screen, too. Can't say that about JJ's films.
Quoted for extreme truthiness. The ST franchise had become almost impossibly dull and bland, with the exception of DS9.
I fully expect these new movies to be a significant improvement and blast of fresh air. Of course, that doesn't mean SW fans will be happy with them. From my perspective, there were many, many people very, very into those terrible prequel movies, even if they carped about them publicly.
Genre fans sometimes seem to care about keeping the status quo and checking all the boxes rather than making good films/series.
Breotan wrote: The one redeeming thing about JJ is that he put the adventure back into Star Trek. That was missing all they way since the original TV show. The "next gen" movies all felt like television episodes shown on the big screen, too. Can't say that about JJ's films.
Quoted for extreme truthiness. The ST franchise had become almost impossibly dull and bland, with the exception of DS9.
I fully expect these new movies to be a significant improvement and blast of fresh air. Of course, that doesn't mean SW fans will be happy with them. From my perspective, there were many, many people very, very into those terrible prequel movies, even if they carped about them publicly.
Genre fans sometimes seem to care about keeping the status quo and checking all the boxes rather than making good films/series.
They could avoid a lot of that if they put it substantially in the past or the future. Aka pre or early Republic or maybe a few decades post empire. Make your own space in the SW empire.
Would be nice to see something not heavily focused on jedi though. SW was a romp and only had the one jedi fight in it. making another uber jedi for entire movie movie would be boring.
Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote: Guess I'm just a bad nerd, because I really liked the JJ Abrams Star Trek movies. The only Star Trek I had seen before that was a handful of episodes from each TV series, none of which I had really been able to get into.
Of course, I also have trouble enjoying much Doctor Who from before season 5(I even liked season 6!), which according to basically everybody I've ever talked to makes me valid for labeling as mentally challenged.
Breotan wrote: The one redeeming thing about JJ is that he put the adventure back into Star Trek. That was missing all they way since the original TV show. The "next gen" movies all felt like television episodes shown on the big screen, too. Can't say that about JJ's films.
Quoted for extreme truthiness. The ST franchise had become almost impossibly dull and bland, with the exception of DS9.
I fully expect these new movies to be a significant improvement and blast of fresh air. Of course, that doesn't mean SW fans will be happy with them. From my perspective, there were many, many people very, very into those terrible prequel movies, even if they carped about them publicly.
Genre fans sometimes seem to care about keeping the status quo and checking all the boxes rather than making good films/series.
They could avoid a lot of that if they put it substantially in the past or the future. Aka pre or early Republic or maybe a few decades post empire. Make your own space in the SW empire.
Would be nice to see something not heavily focused on jedi though. SW was a romp and only had the one jedi fight in it. making another uber jedi for entire movie movie would be boring.
This is basically what I have hated about a lot of the non cannon star wars stuff. All the sudden there are a million Jedis everywhere?
Breotan wrote: The one redeeming thing about JJ is that he put the adventure back into Star Trek. That was missing all they way since the original TV show. The "next gen" movies all felt like television episodes shown on the big screen, too. Can't say that about JJ's films.
Quoted for extreme truthiness. The ST franchise had become almost impossibly dull and bland, with the exception of DS9.
I fully expect these new movies to be a significant improvement and blast of fresh air. Of course, that doesn't mean SW fans will be happy with them. From my perspective, there were many, many people very, very into those terrible prequel movies, even if they carped about them publicly.
Genre fans sometimes seem to care about keeping the status quo and checking all the boxes rather than making good films/series.
They could avoid a lot of that if they put it substantially in the past or the future. Aka pre or early Republic or maybe a few decades post empire. Make your own space in the SW empire.
Would be nice to see something not heavily focused on jedi though. SW was a romp and only had the one jedi fight in it. making another uber jedi for entire movie movie would be boring.
I expect JJ will simply remake existing material like he did with Into Darkness. Imagine the central shaft of Sky City where Jar Jar Binks chops off Anakin's hand with a lightsaber and says, "Meeza yor fa-tha." then Anikan cries out, "Noooooooo!"
The prequels have some good points in terms of the SW setting but as movies they have poor pacing, awkward and melodramatic dialog, wooden acting, and extremely limited character development.
Manchu wrote: The prequels have some good points in terms of the SW setting but as movies they have poor pacing, awkward and melodramatic dialog, wooden acting, and extremely limited character development.
That and most of the movies take place either sitting on couches or walking down hallways. Its pretty crazy.
Manchu wrote: The prequels have some good points in terms of the SW setting but as movies they have poor pacing, awkward and melodramatic dialog, wooden acting, and extremely limited character development.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: While we're on the subject, what's the deal with everyone hating the prequels? Can someone explain to me why they're supposedly so awful?
Highlights of the prequels:
Count Dooku - Sir Christopher Lee. In space. With a lightsaber.
Jango Fett - A bounty hunter who beat a Jedi in a straight fight.
Chancellor Palpatine - I can't remember who played him, but I quite liked the overall character.
Downfalls:
Hayden Christansen Anakin Skywalker - Actually, both actors for Anakin were dreadful.
A lot of other things I'm too tired to list.
With the exception of Liam Neeson and NOSNAKESON THEM ^&(&(**ING PLANE Jackson, the only other non cringe worthy characters were the Sith and rogue Jedi Dracula er Lee.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: While we're on the subject, what's the deal with everyone hating the prequels? Can someone explain to me why they're supposedly so awful?
Grey Templar wrote: The biggest trajedy for me was when Windu died and that whiny bi-, I mean, Anakin turned.
Talk about the lamest death scene ever, and a total 360 turn.
First you cut off his hand and help kill him. Then you say "what have I done?" And then you go "let's kill them Jedi fethers!"
I'd argue that Mauls death was worse. He single handedly kicked 2 Jedi's assess without breaking a sweat, the when he got bored, killed the Jedi master, and quickly took out Obi Wan without batting an eye..... THEN suddenly gets his RTard on and gloats like a moron, let's obi want super flip behind himself and get cut in half.......... er...... WHAT?!?
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gossipmeng wrote:It would be nice if SW became more dark and dropped challenged comedy drones.
Mr Morden wrote:Good news - at least they will be fun to watch unlike the dire prequals
Really enjoyed Into Darkness so looking forward to seeing how he puts the SW films back on track for fun
At 6:54, I just love that bit and I'm not 100% sure why. The dive into the teeth of the guns just seems so damn cool. How it gets hit and just comes apart
The only two interesting things in the prequels (excluding things outside the world like soundtrack) were Qui Gon and Darth Maul, and they got rid of them both in the first movie, and in awful ways.
King Cracker already covered Maul for the most part so I'll go on relentlessly about Qui Gon. He is an iconoclast Jedi Master and shaped Obi Wan and Anakin, we really should have got more time with the guy. He was supposed to be a Jor El like character that was out of step with the council and should have been warning them that shennanigans were about but they didn't believe him. His dieing is important but it should have happened in the second film, as that is when the heroes are supposed to get hit more, but also to give us time to learn about the guy and see how he made his learners into who they were. The second film should have had the Jedi trying to track down Maul (with him having killed lots of Knights along the way) leading to a final confrontation between Qui Gon and Maul with an epic battle between Qui Gon, Obi, and Maul. The fight goes the same, though less lame at the end, but the loss of Anakin's adopted dad just makes him that much angrier. After losing his mom, then his master/father figure he later has visions that his wife will die in childbirth and lose the kids at the same time and he just snaps, not wanting to lose one more person in his life. It allows the audience to also think that all that is left is the Sith Master since we have had two films of Maul and Sidious, but then you find out he had other apprentices. Dooku shouldn't have been a Jedi that left the order but an retired Senator (or even ex-Chancellor) that (pretends) to believe the Republic has moved away from its ideals and is leading the people in rebellion, which is more empathetic, and then later it turns out that he is actually another Sidious apprentice and that they are playing both sides against the middle.
Ahtman wrote: The only two interesting things in the prequels (excluding things outside the world like soundtrack) were Qui Gon and Darth Maul, and they got rid of them both in the first movie, and in awful ways.
King Cracker already covered Maul for the most part so I'll go on relentlessly about Qui Gon. He is an iconoclast Jedi Master and shaped Obi Wan and Anakin, we really should have got more time with the guy. He was supposed to be a Jor El like character that was out of step with the council and should have been warning them that shennanigans were about but they didn't believe him. His dieing is important but it should have happened in the second film, as that is when the heroes are supposed to get hit more, but also to give us time to learn about the guy and see how he made his learners into who they were. The second film should have had the Jedi trying to track down Maul (with him having killed lots of Knights along the way) leading to a final confrontation between Qui Gon and Maul with an epic battle between Qui Gon, Obi, and Maul. The fight goes the same, though less lame at the end, but the loss of Anakin's adopted dad just makes him that much angrier. After losing his mom, then his master/father figure he later has visions that his wife will die in childbirth and lose the kids at the same time and he just snaps, not wanting to lose one more person in his life. It allows the audience to also think that all that is left is the Sith Master since we have had two films of Maul and Sidious, but then you find out he had other apprentices. Dooku shouldn't have been a Jedi that left the order but an retired Senator (or even ex-Chancellor) that (pretends) to believe the Republic has moved away from its ideals and is leading the people in rebellion, which is more empathetic, and then later it turns out that he is actually another Sidious apprentice and that they are playing both sides against the middle.
Yeah, it certainly should have been more personal, with a focus on personal betrayals. Too much time was spent with the characters talking about the fight they had with the trade federation no-one really cared about, and too little time was spent on relationships that would be torn apart in the end.
I think that's one part that gives me some hope, Star Wars is all about the personal melodrama and Abrams loves to put that stuff first and foremost in his movies.
KingCracker wrote: I don't think knowing when to withdrawal makes one a coward
It was not as if he retreated to try and come back with whatever force he could muster amongst the thousands of planets. That I feel would have been a withdrawl............. if its a withdrawl it lasts what 30 years? Thats a long time to hide and do nothing!
Running off alone and burying your head in a jungle hole sure seemed like cowardice to me? He lost one lightsaber duel and is on the next ship to the back of beyond in the hope that everyone will forget he existed.
No lets try and rally the republic, lets actually try and save some people - you know like being a Jedi Knight - no I am more than happy to run and hide.
It seemed to me that Yoda talked big but when it came to it - he had nothing............. He should have practiced what he preached!
Also I thought a great bit of writting was Anakin happy to leave his mother as a slave.................right..................
Mr Morden wrote: if its a withdrawl it lasts what 30 years? Thats a long time to hide and do nothing!
At that point he was pretty much alone and isolated from the very few other remaining Jedi, and Sidious had Vader and the entire Republic, excuse me, Imperial army behind him. He was biding his time and trying to avoid detection. If he had joined the Rebellion it would have been like setting up a beacon to Vader and Sidious as to where the rebels where hanging out, and they really aren't prepared for a full out battle with the entire Imperial Army and Navy. The reason he was on Degobah was because there was a strong Dark Side presence there that nullified his own Light Side presence. Sure they could have executed it better, like practically everything else in the prequels, but he wasn't really in a position to fight back at the time.
Even if these films are written and directed by Michael Bay, they would still be better than the absolute unremitting shower of poop that was the 'first' three films. I have to admit that I don't really enjoy the original films that much.
With these films I am hoping for a clean break in terms of setting and style... I think Abrams can deliver on style as I did enjoy both of the new ST films (the first more than the second) and I hope that they are taking the entire story in a new direction.
Ahtman wrote: At that point he was pretty much alone and isolated from the very few other remaining Jedi, and Sidious had Vader and the entire Republic, excuse me, Imperial army behind him. He was biding his time and trying to avoid detection. If he had joined the Rebellion it would have been like setting up a beacon to Vader and Sidious as to where the rebels where hanging out, and they really aren't prepared for a full out battle with the entire Imperial Army and Navy. The reason he was on Degobah was because there was a strong Dark Side presence there that nullified his own Light Side presence. Sure they could have executed it better, like practically everything else in the prequels, but he wasn't really in a position to fight back at the time.
The problem was that over the course of three movies a stupid amount of screen time had been given over to stupid bs. Pod races and a small child accidentally winning a giant space battle. The entirety of Attack of the Clones.
So by the time you get to the third movie and the actual events of the prequel are meant to happen, there's barely enough screentime to show most of it properly. The failed attempt to unmask Palpatine and Anakin's decision to join him is given good screen time, but the rest is handled off screen. Order whatever it was, in which the Jedi are betrayed and killed is a montage. Yoda has a light sabre battle that ends in a draw. The future of the rebellion is just kind of mentioned by some peripheral characters while they're being handed a baby.
Really, all of that stuff should have represented half of the second movie and all of the third movie, instead of just being the last act of the final movie. End the second film with Anakin's betrayal, the Republic collapsing and the Jedi order hunted. Then spend the third movie showing the Jedis and the rebels escaping Palpatine, and laying the foundations for the last movie. Centre this around Obi-Wan getting the twins away from Vader, key members of the senate escaping to lead the rebellion, and Yoda realising he cannot fight and win, but if he escapes and hides he will be there to guide another who can fight and win.
That way the screen time would better represent the relative importance of the film's events, and you'd end the trilogy on a more positive note.
Ahtman wrote: At that point he was pretty much alone and isolated from the very few other remaining Jedi, and Sidious had Vader and the entire Republic, excuse me, Imperial army behind him. He was biding his time and trying to avoid detection. If he had joined the Rebellion it would have been like setting up a beacon to Vader and Sidious as to where the rebels where hanging out, and they really aren't prepared for a full out battle with the entire Imperial Army and Navy. The reason he was on Degobah was because there was a strong Dark Side presence there that nullified his own Light Side presence. Sure they could have executed it better, like practically everything else in the prequels, but he wasn't really in a position to fight back at the time.
The problem was that over the course of three movies a stupid amount of screen time had been given over to stupid bs. Pod races and a small child accidentally winning a giant space battle. The entirety of Attack of the Clones.
So by the time you get to the third movie and the actual events of the prequel are meant to happen, there's barely enough screentime to show most of it properly. The failed attempt to unmask Palpatine and Anakin's decision to join him is given good screen time, but the rest is handled off screen. Order whatever it was, in which the Jedi are betrayed and killed is a montage. Yoda has a light sabre battle that ends in a draw. The future of the rebellion is just kind of mentioned by some peripheral characters while they're being handed a baby.
Really, all of that stuff should have represented half of the second movie and all of the third movie, instead of just being the last act of the final movie. End the second film with Anakin's betrayal, the Republic collapsing and the Jedi order hunted. Then spend the third movie showing the Jedis and the rebels escaping Palpatine, and laying the foundations for the last movie. Centre this around Obi-Wan getting the twins away from Vader, key members of the senate escaping to lead the rebellion, and Yoda realising he cannot fight and win, but if he escapes and hides he will be there to guide another who can fight and win.
That way the screen time would better represent the relative importance of the film's events, and you'd end the trilogy on a more positive note.
For once, I think we're in agreement!
The mess that was Revenge of the Sith, with its wooden acting and poor plot, was probably the biggest, steaming pile of Bantha fodder that I have ever seen! The scene where Anakin becomes Vader had me cringing so much, that even after all these years, my face is still red!
There is a danger that people are setting up Abrams to be the new white hope of Hollywood. Has everybody forgotten that car crash of a TV series called Lost? Or the mess he made of into darkness? And to think that some people were saying that it's better than wrath of Khan!
I'll make a prediction. Star Wars VII will be a two star film, that will make millions from kids and fan boys watching it 15 times in a row. When the hype subsides, we'll wonder what the fuss was about. The only winners will be Disney laughing all the way to the bank.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: I'll make a prediction. Star Wars VII will be a two star film, that will make millions from kids and fan boys watching it 15 times in a row. When the hype subsides, we'll wonder what the fuss was about. The only winners will be Disney laughing all the way to the bank.
Make that a .5 star* film and you just described Avatar more than Abrams films.
*There are some bigger people in the film but really it only focused on Tatum, who wasn't that big before Avatar, and we all know the only good character was Quatrich.
chromedog wrote: I think he has him mixed up with Sam Worthington.
A bit like mixing up Mortimer mouse and pinky, really.
I get the two mixed up frequently. I don't find either all that interesting, though Tatum was good in Haywire. I can never hate someone who smashes a mug of hot coffee in someone's face.
Ahtman wrote: At that point he was pretty much alone and isolated from the very few other remaining Jedi, and Sidious had Vader and the entire Republic, excuse me, Imperial army behind him. He was biding his time and trying to avoid detection. If he had joined the Rebellion it would have been like setting up a beacon to Vader and Sidious as to where the rebels where hanging out, and they really aren't prepared for a full out battle with the entire Imperial Army and Navy. The reason he was on Degobah was because there was a strong Dark Side presence there that nullified his own Light Side presence. Sure they could have executed it better, like practically everything else in the prequels, but he wasn't really in a position to fight back at the time.
The problem was that over the course of three movies a stupid amount of screen time had been given over to stupid bs. Pod races and a small child accidentally winning a giant space battle. The entirety of Attack of the Clones.
So by the time you get to the third movie and the actual events of the prequel are meant to happen, there's barely enough screentime to show most of it properly. The failed attempt to unmask Palpatine and Anakin's decision to join him is given good screen time, but the rest is handled off screen. Order whatever it was, in which the Jedi are betrayed and killed is a montage. Yoda has a light sabre battle that ends in a draw. The future of the rebellion is just kind of mentioned by some peripheral characters while they're being handed a baby.
Really, all of that stuff should have represented half of the second movie and all of the third movie, instead of just being the last act of the final movie. End the second film with Anakin's betrayal, the Republic collapsing and the Jedi order hunted. Then spend the third movie showing the Jedis and the rebels escaping Palpatine, and laying the foundations for the last movie. Centre this around Obi-Wan getting the twins away from Vader, key members of the senate escaping to lead the rebellion, and Yoda realising he cannot fight and win, but if he escapes and hides he will be there to guide another who can fight and win.
That way the screen time would better represent the relative importance of the film's events, and you'd end the trilogy on a more positive note.
For once, I think we're in agreement!
The mess that was Revenge of the Sith, with its wooden acting and poor plot, was probably the biggest, steaming pile of Bantha fodder that I have ever seen! The scene where Anakin becomes Vader had me cringing so much, that even after all these years, my face is still red!
There is a danger that people are setting up Abrams to be the new white hope of Hollywood. Has everybody forgotten that car crash of a TV series called Lost? Or the mess he made of into darkness? And to think that some people were saying that it's better than wrath of Khan!
I'll make a prediction. Star Wars VII will be a two star film, that will make millions from kids and fan boys watching it 15 times in a row. When the hype subsides, we'll wonder what the fuss was about. The only winners will be Disney laughing all the way to the bank.
The thing about the prequels is that almost everything in them was great - good production, good effects, good cast for the most part, great setting and design that expanded on the originals. The things that let it down, really let it down, was the writing and plot. However good the rest of the production is, if the writing is poor, the movie will be too. Same thing with the new Star Trek movie to my mind - brilliant production and great casting, piss poor writing and plot.
Now, for the new Star Wars movie, I know Disney is very competent at making movies, and what comes out will be excellently produced. The thing that'll make it into either an "eh" movie that's soon forgotten or a great movie that really adds to the setting will be almost completely in the writing. And there's nothing much in JJ Abrams back catalogue that really inspires confidence in his abilities as a writer.
chromedog wrote: I think he has him mixed up with Sam Worthington.
A bit like mixing up Mortimer mouse and pinky, really.
I get the two mixed up frequently. I don't find either all that interesting, though Tatum was good in Haywire. I can never hate someone who smashes a mug of hot coffee in someone's face.
Watch Gettin' Square. Its a pretty good movie with Worthington in it and he's good in it (from memory).
Good production, not great. To many sycophants around Lucas and to much navel gazing by Lucas to elevate it. It was certainly an expensive production.
good effects
Time has been unkind. The original King Kong has a greater sense of verisimilitude than the first two prequels. Now it just looks like a bunch of people in front of green screen, in the worst way possible.
good cast for the most part
That gave awful performances, almost universally. Though this highlights something you didn't mention, which was direction, and that was quite awful.
great setting
Well it was a preestablished setting, and one they went and made bland and unengaging. They turned a gold mine into a turd factory.
I've been reading the original screenplay for Star Wars and my god is it awful. He needs people to filter his ideas through.
d-usa wrote: The Prequels did bring us one of the best pieces of Star Wars soundtrack:
Can we really credit the prequels for that though? I mean it's just proof that John Williams is the MAN.
Ahtman wrote: The only two interesting things in the prequels (excluding things outside the world like soundtrack) were Qui Gon and Darth Maul, and they got rid of them both in the first movie, and in awful ways.
King Cracker already covered Maul for the most part so I'll go on relentlessly about Qui Gon. He is an iconoclast Jedi Master and shaped Obi Wan and Anakin, we really should have got more time with the guy. He was supposed to be a Jor El like character that was out of step with the council and should have been warning them that shennanigans were about but they didn't believe him. His dieing is important but it should have happened in the second film, as that is when the heroes are supposed to get hit more, but also to give us time to learn about the guy and see how he made his learners into who they were. The second film should have had the Jedi trying to track down Maul (with him having killed lots of Knights along the way) leading to a final confrontation between Qui Gon and Maul with an epic battle between Qui Gon, Obi, and Maul. The fight goes the same, though less lame at the end, but the loss of Anakin's adopted dad just makes him that much angrier. After losing his mom, then his master/father figure he later has visions that his wife will die in childbirth and lose the kids at the same time and he just snaps, not wanting to lose one more person in his life. It allows the audience to also think that all that is left is the Sith Master since we have had two films of Maul and Sidious, but then you find out he had other apprentices. Dooku shouldn't have been a Jedi that left the order but an retired Senator (or even ex-Chancellor) that (pretends) to believe the Republic has moved away from its ideals and is leading the people in rebellion, which is more empathetic, and then later it turns out that he is actually another Sidious apprentice and that they are playing both sides against the middle.
Good production, not great. To many sycophants around Lucas and to much navel gazing by Lucas to elevate it. It was certainly an expensive production.
good effects
Time has been unkind. The original King Kong has a greater sense of verisimilitude than the first two prequels. Now it just looks like a bunch of people in front of green screen, in the worst way possible.
good cast for the most part
That gave awful performances, almost universally. Though this highlights something you didn't mention, which was direction, and that was quite awful.
great setting
Well it was a preestablished setting, and one they went and made bland and unengaging. They turned a gold mine into a turd factory.
I've been reading the original screenplay for Star Wars and my god is it awful. He needs people to filter his ideas through.
Now I'm agreeing with Ahtman!
You've got is spot on regarding casting. Look at the role call Lucas had at his disposal: Ian McDiarmid (top UK Shakespearian actor) Natalie Portman (another good actress) Liam Neeson!!! And Samuel 'The Man' Jackson. And some guy called Ewan!
Point is, how did Lucas conspire to feth up that wealth of acting talent? Answer: urine poor scripts!
My major complaint about the prequels is episode 3's rapid change from Anikan to Vader.
In episode 4 luke is what 16? 18? I always had the impression that it took the majority of that time for Vadar to get his bad reputation and grow into the evil guy we know when he first walks onto the Tantive IV. But no thats not how it happens. It is almost instantaneous from "oh no I am a goody toshoe Jedi" to "I am the most evil thing ever and it feels great lets slaughter some children."
I think it would have been better if at the end of episode 3 he was half Vader and half Anikan still. We all know what he is going to become but letting us know that it takes some time to become that way lends more credence to there being good in him then Padme saying it as she dies of a broken heart (read neck).
Seaward wrote: The laser sword battles were pretty cool, everything else sucked. We walked out of Attack of the Clones.
Jango Fett was the ONLY good part of that movie. And honestly the light saber battles got fracking ridiculous the further the prequels went on. I mean the Vader vs. Obi Wan show down in number 3 is yawn inducing. Really Lucas.... a whole fracking planet for a sword fight? I'm pretty sure if they were THAT skilled it would of ended like the original movies show down between them. Very calculated and almost slow looking for a flaw in the others form. Not a 30 minute romp all over the frigging place
Yes a good laser duel-original Star Wars for something masters might do, or ESB for two experts. Having the fights go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on please just die already.
Maddermax wrote: Now, for the new Star Wars movie, I know Disney is very competent at making movies, and what comes out will be excellently produced. The thing that'll make it into either an "eh" movie that's soon forgotten or a great movie that really adds to the setting will be almost completely in the writing. And there's nothing much in JJ Abrams back catalogue that really inspires confidence in his abilities as a writer.
I don't share your feeling about Abrams, but I think this really is a case in which anyone other than Lucas is an improvement. From the prequels and his changes to the original trilogy, he didn't even seem able to grasp how dialogue even works in a movie anymore.
Contrast the beginning of the lightsaber duel between Luke and Vader in TESB to the beginning of the lightsaber duel between Yoda and Dooku in AoTC. One lets its characters be silent and have their actions do the talking, building the tension. The other is filled with dumb chatter that detracts from the tension.
And forget about handling actors. Lucas made casts filled with great actors look like dinner theater troupes. Lucas just spent too many years holed up in Skywalker Ranch thinking about merchandising and playing with technological doo-dads.
It's almost 35 years later, but Kasdan's work on TESB -- writing and direction -- is still the best work that anyone's done on Star Wars ever. So he gets the benefit of the doubt from me.
Frazzled wrote: Yes a good laser duel-original Star Wars for something masters might do, or ESB for two experts. Having the fights go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on please just die already.
They always start in fifth gear too, as if the key to a good sequence is protracted intensity; I get a headache just remembering the Obi vs Anakin fight in RotS.
Again, look at TESB in comparison. Luke and Vader start out slow, and it creates buildup and helps drive Vader's aura of menace.
The fights in the prequels are technically better in terms of the footwork and sheer amount of cuts and parries and ballet moves. But they lack good pacing and end up soulless and exhausting somehow.
It's the same thing over and over again with Lucas...technical wizardry over acting, dialogue, pacing, and all the other elements of filmmaking.
Another disaster waiting to happen... bringing back the OT cast members.
Outside of Harrison Ford, they basically look awful.
If you saw Mark Hamil back in the Spring on the Criminal Minds finale... geez Luke, the treadmill isn't with you! (let alone The Force anymore)
But lets be realistic, how old is the cast now? Outside of having a few "hey look its so and so" I hope it stays that way, because I dont want to start seeing the Arnold syndrome. You konw, where the actors are 60+ and are pretending they are in their 30s or 40s.
I would love this even more if it was Zahn's clone Luke vs Luke, and it sort of devolves into a laugh contest of Mark Hamill trying to outcackle himself for a few minutes.
Of course, any such film would have the artistic integrity of Kung Pow.
They could avoid a lot of that if they put it substantially in the past or the future. Aka pre or early Republic or maybe a few decades post empire. Make your own space in the SW empire.
Would be nice to see something not heavily focused on jedi though. SW was a romp and only had the one jedi fight in it. making another uber jedi for entire movie movie would be boring.
That's what I think, though to be honest and to have a minor spoiler, a few decades post-Empire actually puts you right back into the days of the Empire, so to speak, though it's a "good" Empire this time. But yeah, sometime between the Vong war and the Legacy graphic novel period would be really cool. That's about 75 years of uncharted territory.
Experiment 626 wrote: If you saw Mark Hamil back in the Spring on the Criminal Minds finale... geez Luke, the treadmill isn't with you! (let alone The Force anymore)
Spoiler:
Hamill and Fisher have already said that both have been sent personal trainers to get them into movie shape for the film. Personally, even as much as I like the Heir to the Empire trilogy, I am glad they are ignoring the trainwreck that is the EU.
Experiment 626 wrote: Another disaster waiting to happen... bringing back the OT cast members.
Outside of Harrison Ford, they basically look awful.
If you saw Mark Hamil back in the Spring on the Criminal Minds finale... geez Luke, the treadmill isn't with you! (let alone The Force anymore)
They can also do all kinds of magic with film. Which is not to say that they won't look old. They will. But they'll have them looking better than they look IRL.
Besides, their children will almost certainly be the main characters.
I feel a strong urge to disagree with that, but I can't think of how
The mess that was Revenge of the Sith, with its wooden acting and poor plot, was probably the biggest, steaming pile of Bantha fodder that I have ever seen! The scene where Anakin becomes Vader had me cringing so much, that even after all these years, my face is still red!
I enjoyed Revenge of the Sith the most out of the prequels. It wasn't good, but it was the one where stuff actually happened. it was also the one with the most wasted potential, because it had at least as many awful bits as the earlier films, and those bits felt even worse because they were in the midst of scenes that actually mattered. For instance, Obi Wan killing Darth Maul by slowly jumping over him, landing and taking a massive baseball swing while Darth Maul seemed to just kind of forget to turn around was really stupid, but ultimately it was just a fight scene with guy that was made up as a purely physical adversary for one movie, so who really cares. But the 'you can't win Anakin, I have the higher ground' bit in RotS was possibly a bit less stupid, but it matters more because this was the big showdown between Anakin and Obi Wan, one of the key points of the mythology.
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Maddermax wrote: The thing about the prequels is that almost everything in them was great - good production, good effects, good cast for the most part, great setting and design that expanded on the originals. The things that let it down, really let it down, was the writing and plot. However good the rest of the production is, if the writing is poor, the movie will be too. Same thing with the new Star Trek movie to my mind - brilliant production and great casting, piss poor writing and plot.
I would argue that not even the writing was a problem, or at least no the dialogue. Not because it was good, because it sure wasn't, but because good dialogue has never really been a Star Wars thing. In the original trilogy the dialogue is kind of formal and awkward. I mean, think of the line 'only a master of evil, Darth'. Alec Guiness sells that line like only Alec Guiness can, and it's in the middle of a good scene that fits perfectly in to the movie, but of itself the line is bad.
But I'm right with you when you talk about the problems with plotting. The structure of the prequels was just all wrong. Way too much time spent on macguffins peripheral to the main plot - I'm pretty sure investigating the clone army in the second movie had more time invested in it than the betrayal of the Jedi got in the third movie. When the plot is plodding along worrying about pointless stuff then you notice the bad parts a whole lot more. For instance, I think the final battle in Attack of the Clones is one of the better action sequences in a Star Wars film, as it expands from the main characters fighting monsters in an arena, to the Jedi fighting throughout the arena, to a massive land battle between two armies, but it's not really any fun because it's all really pointless to the overall story.
Now, for the new Star Wars movie, I know Disney is very competent at making movies, and what comes out will be excellently produced. The thing that'll make it into either an "eh" movie that's soon forgotten or a great movie that really adds to the setting will be almost completely in the writing. And there's nothing much in JJ Abrams back catalogue that really inspires confidence in his abilities as a writer.
Disney's recent record with blockbusters isn't that great. Their last three big budget efforts aimed at the young adult market were the Lone Ranger, Oz the Great and Powerful, and John Carter. Star Wars is different enough and big enough that there's reason to believe this could be different, but Disney's record can't really be used to predict this will be good, or even competent.
Honestly, JJ Abrams is the reason I think this most likely won't be bad. It probably won't be great either, but I have a hard time thinking it will be prequel level bad. The guy makes slick, well polished movies.
I would honestly like a movie set in the Star Wars universe that didn't deal with "big" events. Yeah, maybe that isn't Star Wars enoug; but I would like the setting dug into a bit more to tell good stories from other film styles.
You know like a Stormtrooper crime procedural, a gangster looking to retire from jabba's syndicate but has to do one last job, basically take any formula from other famous movies and imprint it into the Star Wars universe with aliens, robots, and FTL travel.
You just pitched JAG Storm Trooper edition. It might have just enough twist to not be anywhere near as boring as JAG Hardly lame sir.
I personally loved the original pitch behind Star Wars Clones Wars. An animated TV series not centered on someone named Skywalker and his lame punky sidekick? TOo bad that's the exact opposite of what the series became A damn shame.
My guess is that its a remnant of the Empire being controlled from the shadows by a new Sith. Maybe the Sith will be a former Jedi trained by Luke who went missing many years prior.
Grey Templar wrote: My guess is that its a remnant of the Empire being controlled from the shadows by a new Sith. Maybe the Sith will be a former Jedi trained by Luke who went missing many years prior.
What evs, we all know the movies are gonna be all about Jacen and Jaina. Two young adults connected to the original characters by blood? It's almost like they were invented for sequels.
Easy E wrote: I would honestly like a movie set in the Star Wars universe that didn't deal with "big" events. Yeah, maybe that isn't Star Wars enoug; but I would like the setting dug into a bit more to tell good stories from other film styles.
You know like a Stormtrooper crime procedural, a gangster looking to retire from jabba's syndicate but has to do one last job, basically take any formula from other famous movies and imprint it into the Star Wars universe with aliens, robots, and FTL travel.
Easy E wrote: I would honestly like a movie set in the Star Wars universe that didn't deal with "big" events. Yeah, maybe that isn't Star Wars enoug; but I would like the setting dug into a bit more to tell good stories from other film styles.
You know like a Stormtrooper crime procedural, a gangster looking to retire from jabba's syndicate but has to do one last job, basically take any formula from other famous movies and imprint it into the Star Wars universe with aliens, robots, and FTL travel.
I know. I'm lame.
They made two Ewok movies just for you.
And me.
Don;t forget the christmas special or the Droids cartoon!
Grey Templar wrote: My guess is that its a remnant of the Empire being controlled from the shadows by a new Sith. Maybe the Sith will be a former Jedi trained by Luke who went missing many years prior.
What evs, we all know the movies are gonna be all about Jacen and Jaina. Two young adults connected to the original characters by blood? It's almost like they were invented for sequels.
Except haven't they stated they will be making entirely original story and not using the EU at all? They will probably have children for the characters, but they will be different completely different characters.
Grey Templar wrote: Yeah, probably going to be some inspiration drawn from the EU. They'd be stupid not to at least use it as an idea source.
Having read some of the EU I wouldn't mind if they ignored it completely. I'm not sure "Han and Liea had kids" is such a radical idea that only one person thought of it, so I doubt they need to read any of those books to create a road map for the story. I don't think they need to delve into what we would now call fan fiction to try and come up with a story.
FirePainter wrote: My major complaint about the prequels is episode 3's rapid change from Anikan to Vader.
In episode 4 luke is what 16? 18? I always had the impression that it took the majority of that time for Vadar to get his bad reputation and grow into the evil guy we know when he first walks onto the Tantive IV. But no thats not how it happens. It is almost instantaneous from "oh no I am a goody toshoe Jedi" to "I am the most evil thing ever and it feels great lets slaughter some children."
I think it would have been better if at the end of episode 3 he was half Vader and half Anikan still. We all know what he is going to become but letting us know that it takes some time to become that way lends more credence to there being good in him then Padme saying it as she dies of a broken heart (read neck).
In ep 4, Luke is 20.
He may whine like a 15 year old, but according to the scripts and screenplay, he is 20. So ep3 is set about 20 years prior to ep4.
I hope they keep lightsaber use to a minimum in the new films. The prequel trilogy took most of the tension out of the confrontations; even more so when chopping up droids by the legion.
FirePainter wrote: My major complaint about the prequels is episode 3's rapid change from Anikan to Vader.
In episode 4 luke is what 16? 18? I always had the impression that it took the majority of that time for Vadar to get his bad reputation and grow into the evil guy we know when he first walks onto the Tantive IV. But no thats not how it happens. It is almost instantaneous from "oh no I am a goody toshoe Jedi" to "I am the most evil thing ever and it feels great lets slaughter some children."
I think it would have been better if at the end of episode 3 he was half Vader and half Anikan still. We all know what he is going to become but letting us know that it takes some time to become that way lends more credence to there being good in him then Padme saying it as she dies of a broken heart (read neck).
In ep 4, Luke is 20.
He may whine like a 15 year old, but according to the scripts and screenplay, he is 20. So ep3 is set about 20 years prior to ep4.
Well he may be older than I thought but I think that makes my point stronger. The transformation of Anakin to Vader happened so fast in ep3 that there is nothing for him to do in that 20 years. If he got to pure (with a little bit of good) evil so fast then how did he keep upping his reputation and inspiring fear throughout the empire for all those years? I really think that only a partial transformation to Vader would have been better: show us the mask or 1 arm and a leg don't just go full on and cut off everything but his torso.
Also I knew that ESB was 3 years after New Hope but I though ROJ was only a year after ESB. That was why it was such a desparation move to attack the death star 2 because they were still recovering from Hoth.
Well he may be older than I thought but I think that makes my point stronger. The transformation of Anakin to Vader happened so fast in ep3 that there is nothing for him to do in that 20 years. If he got to pure (with a little bit of good) evil so fast then how did he keep upping his reputation and inspiring fear throughout the empire for all those years? I really think that only a partial transformation to Vader would have been better: show us the mask or 1 arm and a leg don't just go full on and cut off everything but his torso.
I would have thought that the physical damage could have happened all at once, however I do agree with you... you don't just go full evil because you're a torso and head combo that can use the force. I would think of it in terms of the usual grieving process... Ie. at first, he realizes that he was acting like a gakker and deserved what he got (blame the victim?), but then, due to the pain and fear, possibly of never functioning properly, or of losing everything, he begins to blame his former teachers. Once he begins to blame them, he begins to resent them, which leads to full on hatred. As he's lost sight of what "really" happened, he slips further and further down the dark path until we get to A New Hope and he force chokes his own naval officers
Frazzled wrote: really? I had thought ROJ was shortly after ESB.
You are correct. He was still 22-23 in RotJ - it didn't take them four years to get around to rescuing Han.
I meant to post the link to the where it was said. I don't know, and I agree that I don't think that much time had passed. Nineteen seemed to have consensus as his age at the time of Star Wars, and I went back and looked for a timeline eslewhere and it shows a year between Battle for Hoth and the Battle of Endor so it should probably be 22 and 23, respectively.
I wouldn't have expected all the damage at once. Vader's job was to hunt down rebels and jedi knights they missed during the purge. Some of them had to have gotten shots in from time to time. I'd assumed he'd lost enough to suit up to Obi-wan but the majority was lost over the next 20 years of being the attack dog of the empire.
The Rebel Alliance came a long way in that year. They lost a major Battle at Hoth, but somehow had the resources that we see in the Death Star 2 attack? Impressive.
Of course, the fleet was 80% Mon Calamari, so I guess they just sealed a big alliance in the nick of time!
And what a gak fest it was. From bad script to way to long battles to wtf moments. My personal favorite, Yoda the most powerful jedi fights the most powerful sith to a standstill and then...
Hulksmash wrote: I wouldn't have expected all the damage at once.
Why not? They pretty much told us at some point Vader was the way he was due to a fight with Obi Wan ending by falling into a volcano/lava. That's been pretty common knowledge since around the 90's at least.
RossDas wrote: I hope they keep lightsaber use to a minimum in the new films. The prequel trilogy took most of the tension out of the confrontations; even more so when chopping up droids by the legion.
Well if they new jedi order is around your wish won't come true
Hulksmash wrote: I wouldn't have expected all the damage at once.
Why not? They pretty much told us at some point Vader was the way he was due to a fight with Obi Wan ending by falling into a volcano/lava. That's been pretty common knowledge since around the 90's at least.
Don't remember that from the movies. Only the "He's more machine now than a man" bit by Obi-Wan. But hey, it's been years since I watched any of the films and at least a decade since I read any of the books.
Hulksmash wrote: I wouldn't have expected all the damage at once.
Why not? They pretty much told us at some point Vader was the way he was due to a fight with Obi Wan ending by falling into a volcano/lava. That's been pretty common knowledge since around the 90's at least.
Don't remember that from the movies. Only the "He's more machine now than a man" bit by Obi-Wan. But hey, it's been years since I watched any of the films and at least a decade since I read any of the books.
It's not from one of the films. Canon statements exist outside of them, y'know.
" After writing the second and third drafts in which the point[Vader being Luke's father] was introduced, Lucas reviewed the new backstory he had created: Anakin had been Obi-Wan's brilliant student and had a child named Luke, but was swayed to the dark side by Palpatine (a Sith and not a politician). Anakin battled Kenobi on the site of a volcano and was badly wounded, but was then reborn as Vader. Meanwhile, Kenobi hid Luke on Tatooine while the Galactic Republic became the tyrannical Galactic Empire and Vader systematically hunted down and killed the Jedi." - paraphrasing from Secret History of Star Wars
RossDas wrote: I hope they keep lightsaber use to a minimum in the new films. The prequel trilogy took most of the tension out of the confrontations; even more so when chopping up droids by the legion.
Well if they new jedi order is around your wish won't come true
I won't be too gutted, just so long as any indulgent choreography is held in place with above competent directing, a decent script and some memorable characters this time around.
RossDas wrote: I hope they keep lightsaber use to a minimum in the new films. The prequel trilogy took most of the tension out of the confrontations; even more so when chopping up droids by the legion.
Well if they new jedi order is around your wish won't come true
I won't be too gutted, just so long as any indulgent choreography is held in place with above competent directing, a decent script and some memorable characters this time around.
I'd argue that Jar Jar Binks is pretty memorable, considering how references to him pops up in all kinds of popular media these days.
RossDas wrote: I hope they keep lightsaber use to a minimum in the new films. The prequel trilogy took most of the tension out of the confrontations; even more so when chopping up droids by the legion.
Well if they new jedi order is around your wish won't come true
I won't be too gutted, just so long as any indulgent choreography is held in place with above competent directing, a decent script and some memorable characters this time around.
I'd argue that Jar Jar Binks is pretty memorable, considering how references to him pops up in all kinds of popular media these days.
The trouble was he stood out like a sore thumb due to everyone around him being somewhat dull; C3P0 wasn't much better in my book, but he was just one distinct character among many.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: I'd argue that Jar Jar Binks is pretty memorable, considering how references to him pops up in all kinds of popular media these days.
Easy E wrote: The Rebel Alliance came a long way in that year. They lost a major Battle at Hoth, but somehow had the resources that we see in the Death Star 2 attack? Impressive.
Of course, the fleet was 80% Mon Calamari, so I guess they just sealed a big alliance in the nick of time!
Pretty sure they didn't have the entire rebellion on Hoth. Just the main command staff.
Like ay good resistance movement, they'd have a lot of sleeper support and hidden cashes of equipment scattered all over.
And what a gak fest it was. From bad script to way to long battles to wtf moments. My personal favorite, Yoda the most powerful jedi fights the most powerful sith to a standstill and then...
runs away.
and hides don't forget that - he not only runs away but he abandons his duty and everyone else in the galaxy to save his own skin..............he talks the talk but ........
Thinking about it more I think the X-wing series might be a good pick for the new movies. It has all the classic characters making cameos and adds in stuff right after ROJ.
Plus its got Wedge Antillies as the main guy and who doesn't like that.
And what a gak fest it was. From bad script to way to long battles to wtf moments. My personal favorite, Yoda the most powerful jedi fights the most powerful sith to a standstill and then...
runs away.
and hides don't forget that - he not only runs away but he abandons his duty and everyone else in the galaxy to save his own skin..............he talks the talk but ........
To be fair to the little guy, its not easy to walk the walk when your legs are only 6" long
isn't that just catering for all tastes - hey someone somewhere thought likely the Gammorians were sex gods..........
So if we are likely to get some more Leia style imagery thats all good - are there attractive fighter pilot gals in the X Wing stuff? Oh and guys for the girls?
It has been awhile since I have read them but I do believe there was some good candidates for eye candy
And with regards to jabbas palace its all well and good until you realize that Leia was jabbas sex slave and then realize that Han gets that after.......
FirePainter wrote: It has been awhile since I have read them but I do believe there was some good candidates for eye candy
And with regards to jabbas palace its all well and good until you realize that Leia was jabbas sex slave and then realize that Han gets that after.......
He was (almost) blind at that point - I'm not sure he really knew what was going on.
Hulksmash wrote: I wouldn't have expected all the damage at once.
Why not? They pretty much told us at some point Vader was the way he was due to a fight with Obi Wan ending by falling into a volcano/lava. That's been pretty common knowledge since around the 90's at least.
Don't remember that from the movies. Only the "He's more machine now than a man" bit by Obi-Wan. But hey, it's been years since I watched any of the films and at least a decade since I read any of the books.
It's not from one of the films. Canon statements exist outside of them, y'know.
" After writing the second and third drafts in which the point[Vader being Luke's father] was introduced, Lucas reviewed the new backstory he had created: Anakin had been Obi-Wan's brilliant student and had a child named Luke, but was swayed to the dark side by Palpatine (a Sith and not a politician). Anakin battled Kenobi on the site of a volcano and was badly wounded, but was then reborn as Vader. Meanwhile, Kenobi hid Luke on Tatooine while the Galactic Republic became the tyrannical Galactic Empire and Vader systematically hunted down and killed the Jedi." - paraphrasing from Secret History of Star Wars
I'm aware of Canon statements happening outside of the films but how does that contradict what I'd originally said. I figured he got hurt bad enough to go in the suit. But that as time wore on he got more and more beat up tracking down Jedi. Becoming more man than machine. A trained Jedi (which Luke wasn't really, even when they met in RotJ) should be a handful for him. All the damage being done at once seemed a little over the top for me. Just like his super fast fall.
It's 6 months to a year between Empire and Jedi. 3PO's comment of "Poor Lando never came back from that place" can be put down to goldenrod's propensity to over-exaggerate things (something a protocol and interpreter droid should not be doing).
The mon-cal came aboard the alliance early into the thing and were responsible for giving them several ship designs.
chromedog wrote: It's 6 months to a year between Empire and Jedi. 3PO's comment of "Poor Lando never came back from that place" can be put down to goldenrod's propensity to over-exaggerate things (something a protocol and interpreter droid should not be doing).
I recall reading somewhere that droids have their 'minds' wiped fairly frequently because if they aren't they begin to act strangely, sometimes exhibiting personalities. This is how R2D2, C3P0, IG-88, and HK-47 are usually explained. The longer they go without a wipe the more they tend to be resistant to the idea of it, meatbag.
There are also droids that are attached to a central processor that generally does most of their thinking, like the battle droids in TPM, and when cut off from that long enough they can start to exhibit odd behavior as well.
Edit: Found it. It was from Knights of the Old Republic.
"You know, if droids go to long without memory wipes they develop quirks. Personalities, and by yours, I can tell it's been quite a while" - Bao-Dur to T3-M4 aboard the Ebon hawk.
It also comes up in regards to astromechs and fighters. Without a wipe they can develop closer ties to a specific flight computer, allowing you to perform at higher levels in combat. But they bring their own quirks into it as well, something like that.
It ain't Star Wars if Lucas isn't involved. One does not simply make an entry in a franchise unless the original creator is involved (unless they're dead).
Or unless the original creator has proven that he doesn't know how to control himself when making movies...AFAIK, nobody wants Lucas to be too involved with the movie. I mean, think about what he did to the franchise with the prequels.
Besides, look at all the Marvel movies - they're all good, and I don't think Stan Lee had much to do with 'em.
Squigsquasher wrote: It ain't Star Wars if Lucas isn't involved. One does not simply make an entry in a franchise unless the original creator is involved (unless they're dead).
You do realize the original trilogy was good not because of George, but because other people were involved in the creative process who had greater authority than he did.
Squigsquasher wrote: It ain't Star Wars if Lucas isn't involved. One does not simply make an entry in a franchise unless the original creator is involved (unless they're dead).
You do realize the original trilogy was good not because of George, but because other people were involved in the creative process who had greater authority than he did.
Exactly right. Go do some research, you'll be shocked. By the time he was on episode 6 he had the most control and you started getting Ewoks and 5 different things going on at the same time.
motyak wrote: It also comes up in regards to astromechs and fighters. Without a wipe they can develop closer ties to a specific flight computer, allowing you to perform at higher levels in combat. But they bring their own quirks into it as well, something like that.
Not sure which of the novels its from though.
I'm pretty sure that was covered in the Zahn-Thrawn books. Because they were the only "EU" books that I read.
And to be fair, Lucas does need to be given credit for assembling so many talented people around him during SW and TESB. It turned out that he really needed them, but some credit is still due.
Some credit....sure. He did think the thing up.....kindda......sorta in a small way.... well. they did end up changing almost everything he planned originally, but sure. Credit and all that
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He should have practiced what he preached!
