Completely setting aside the issue of how good or bad the rules are, is there any new significant background or is it all rehashed from previous Codices and Epic: Hive War?

Iracundus wrote:
Completely setting aside the issue of how good or bad the rules are, is there any new significant background or is it all rehashed from previous Codices and Epic: Hive War?

Well, the previous Tyranid Codex changed the fluff considerably vis-a-vis Epic: Hive War (which was "how it was" up until and including the 5th Edition Space Marines Codex), mostly through the inclusion of the Swarmlord (which didn't exist in the Hive War fluff) and was introduced in the 5th Nid Edition Codex (and the entire Hive War fluff basically turned on its head to give the Swarmlord a place in the story, complete with "epic" end-duel with Calgar).

The new Nid Codex basically sticks with the 5th Edition Nid Codex version of Macragge and does not return to the 5th Edition Space Marines/Hive War version of it.

Obvious fluff changes in the 6th Edition book is that Malan'tai is gone (since the Doom of Malan'tai is gone).

I thought there was a side blurb about Malantai from one of the scans?

The reason I ask the fluff question at all is the apparent bad rules and lackluster Codex writing by an apparently unenthusiastic design team makes me have second thoughts about spending the $ and effort on acquiring the Codex at all.

It is pretty clear the GW team was cannibalizing Hive War from the revamping of the Exocrine, Haruspex, and even the introduction of the new variation of Instinctive Behavior, which is a revamp of the old Nest, Hunt, and Rampage instincts from Hive War. All told, I get the feel of a lack of creativity and simple rehashing of the past, except then making it worse. The Exocrine used to be a decent long ranged unit, and now its range is a joke for its supposed role of bio-artillery.

I've had the codex for five hours. Besides the new Units, their are no fluff changes. not a fething one. THEY KILLED OFF MY fething PARASITE, AND DIDN'T EVEN fething ADD ANYTHING TO THE STORY, feth!!!!!!!!!!!!
Edit: wow. Sorry . It's 3:00 am here, see.

This lack of new fluff makes me sad. I know that a lot of 40k is a setting, not a story, but copy and pasting old fluff without adding anything new is so boring and lazy. You can compare old editions to newer editions and it's clear there was at least SOME progression back then in an attempt to remind players that things are ALIVE. They just don't have the spirit anymore, I guess :|

So in the 6th ed SM codex Calgar kinda ties then pwns the Swarmy. How does it go down in Nid 6th ed.

 Lobukia wrote:
So in the 6th ed SM codex Calgar kinda ties then pwns the Swarmy. How does it go down in Nid 6th ed.

I heard the swammy gave calgar a run for his money.

They added a big fight between Nids and Daemons.

And, if memory serves, they changed the means by which the Inquisitor first found the fate of Tyran. Instead of going deep underground,t he data got shot into space.

 Zweischneid wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Completely setting aside the issue of how good or bad the rules are, is there any new significant background or is it all rehashed from previous Codices and Epic: Hive War?

Obvious fluff changes in the 6th Edition book is that Malan'tai is gone (since the Doom of Malan'tai is gone).

The Doom of Malan'tai has a paragraph of fluff on the Zoanthrope page.

The Doom is in there, just not his rules. The best and most noteworthy part was a conflict between Nids and a full Daemonic invasion, which finally answers that question of "Does the Shadow affect Daemons?" Spoilers below...










Nids win, crush the Daemons, who can't corrupt them and lose power due to shadows and lack of fear. Ichor is a poor offer to Khorne and Nids can out-evolve Nurgles plagues, and Nids hate eating Daemons and don't see their corpses as biomass.

So the 3rd army to hard counter daemons, the 6th army to be hyper resistant to daemons (either eldar that rarely fall to gk and sob level to necron and nid level). I'll admit I find it a bit of a bummer. Woulda kinda found it fun to have some warped nids that have these crazy mutations before being crushed but an experiment blah what fun. Still though, heard it was 3 pages so hopefully it was kinda cool!

iirc nurgle once corrupted a hive ship. ok Ive had a proper read of the codex, a few changes include:
the daemon fight, which was lol worthy to say the least.
recording pod went into space.
malenthrope are mentioned, making them official.
the lyanden craftworld awoke the ghost warriors BEFORE the battle started.

lol worthy? Like good or bad? If that makes sense blaaargh. I actually kinda have hope that doom will be in some supplement or some digital copy maybe. It's honestly cheap but maybe it would even mean extra fluff?

 StarTrotter wrote:
lol worthy? Like good or bad? If that makes sense blaaargh. I actually kinda have hope that doom will be in some supplement or some digital copy maybe. It's honestly cheap but maybe it would even mean extra fluff?

Lol worthy in that me and my friend had a his chaos vs. My nids just before we read it. And I won.

 Truth118 wrote:


The Doom of Malan'tai has a paragraph of fluff on the Zoanthrope page.

True. I had just been reading the background section before the actual units. I stand corrected.

Hive Crones are space-borne, and guard the Hive Ships against enemy craft. This might actually be a little bit of fridge brilliance when it comes to their shape; the wings fold away (not much use in space) and the creatures look like chunky space-snakes.

It's pretty poor. Bear in mind I've not read 'Nid fluff since 2nd ed but :

The Tyran invasion is really sketchy and not nearly as good at conveying the sheer scale of a Nid invasion. Was much better in the older versions. Unsure why they changed putting the data codex into space too.

The Hivemind is now much more of a calculating, intelligent being, whereas before it was literally just a term for the Nid superconciousness, that didn't think about much other than eating.

The Swarmlord is a stupid piece of fluff, its meant to be a race of anonymous swarms, there should not be some character that magically gets "reuploaded" every time he died and spawned out again, its stupid. The Nid's don't have a supreme commander, thats the while point, its a hive.

They removed all mention of Nids adapting using DNA from our galaxy (Biovores being made from Orks, Zoanthropes being made from Eldar , Guard being made from Marines), none of these bio-forms are supposed to exist until after the Nids have had a chance to accrue biomass from our galaxy.

They removed the fluff about Genestealer cults emitting a psychic beacon which attracts the Nids. Now they lurk in the sewers and don't do very much. They also fail to mention that Genestealers were around way before the rest of the Nids showed up.

 Stormphoenix wrote:
They removed the fluff about Genestealer cults emitting a psychic beacon which attracts the Nids. Now they lurk in the sewers and don't do very much. They also fail to mention that Genestealers were around way before the rest of the Nids showed up.

I know this one at least isn't correct but it's not that easy to spot, I think. In the first Tyranid War timeline, the very first event, years before the Tyran invasion, is how the Blood Angels eliminated the Genestealer presence from a Space Hulk but no one figured out they were the Vanguard for a much bigger invasion from an unknown Xenos.

So if the Tyranids are quite resistant to Chaos then does it make sense that the Tyranids could have been "made" by someone or something that has a deep hatred for the Ruinous Powers?



C'tan?

Mellow wrote:
So if the Tyranids are quite resistant to Chaos then does it make sense that the Tyranids could have been "made" by someone or something that has a deep hatred for the Ruinous Powers?



C'tan?

From another galaxy.

Meh, I enjoyed reading through the fluff in the book. The major disappointment for me was that the Tyranids are always beaten in the stories. There's truly nothing that dark about the Tyranids because they always lose. I also didn't like that Calgar beats the Swarmlord on their 2nd encounter because despite what we've written in the rest of this book, the Tyranids just can't adapt to Calgar.

Anyone else think that the Parasite and the Doom are going to be getting their own data slates? My money is on Data Slates with more flushed out fluff for them. I've been thinking that the reason a lot of the units got removed was for Data Slates but we'll see... (I hope they get them anyway)

The only addition that I saw was actually a good fluff piece about demons and tyranids having an epic war on some saint world.

After the 5ed Necron codex I'm surprised nothing was added about the Necrons and Nids duking it out.

 Flinty wrote:

Mellow wrote:
So if the Tyranids are quite resistant to Chaos then does it make sense that the Tyranids could have been "made" by someone or something that has a deep hatred for the Ruinous Powers?



C'tan?

From another galaxy.

Has it been explicitly stated that C'tan are from the Milky Way?

 Matt1785 wrote:
Meh, I enjoyed reading through the fluff in the book. The major disappointment for me was that the Tyranids are always beaten in the stories. There's truly nothing that dark about the Tyranids because they always lose. I also didn't like that Calgar beats the Swarmlord on their 2nd encounter because despite what we've written in the rest of this book, the Tyranids just can't adapt to Calgar.

Anyone else think that the Parasite and the Doom are going to be getting their own data slates? My money is on Data Slates with more flushed out fluff for them. I've been thinking that the reason a lot of the units got removed was for Data Slates but we'll see... (I hope they get them anyway)

Parasite maybe, because it did not have much of a third party presence. Doom for get it, Chapterhouse pretty much insured that it was gone from the codex. Spores and Doom were the 2 biggest thrid pary models. Something to beef up stealers, Lictors and maybe one around Old One Eye I can see....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Ocatavius Sector war with the Orks got some beefing up.

I never got that bit about Chaos only being in this galaxy. The Warp doesn't just exist in the galaxy alone, so surely sentient life in other galaxies must generate their own Chaos Gods...

 Stormphoenix wrote:
I never got that bit about Chaos only being in this galaxy. The Warp doesn't just exist in the galaxy alone, so surely sentient life in other galaxies must generate their own Chaos Gods...

Maybe, maybe not. The Chaos gods are very "human", in a sense. They embody humanoid emotions and concepts, and draw their power from humans (and other humanoids, see the Orks and Gork/Mork). Other life may not function as we do, and as the Tyranids clearly show it is quite possible to be alive, incredibly complex and also have a completely different effect on the Warp.

Also, who's to say that although the Warp is a parallel dimension of sorts, that its scale is the same as our universe? Perhaps the Warp is like a blister on the skin of reality, and the blister only covers our galaxy? It's never been stated one way or another.

Tyranids created My Little Pony and they don't eat people any more, they just force them to watch episodes of Friendship is Magic.

Truly, this new lore makes them more grimdark.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Xyptc wrote:
They embody humanoid emotions and concepts, and draw their power from humans (and other humanoids, see the Orks and Gork/Mork)

Orks don't feed Chaos, and are, in fact, quite resistant to it due to their psychology.

Anything with the second bestest fight in da ooniverse?(octavius/octarius.)

 Stormphoenix wrote:
It's pretty poor. Bear in mind I've not read 'Nid fluff since 2nd ed but :

They removed all mention of Nids adapting using DNA from our galaxy (Biovores being made from Orks, Zoanthropes being made from Eldar , Guard being made from Marines), none of these bio-forms are supposed to exist until after the Nids have had a chance to accrue biomass from our galaxy.

They removed the fluff about Genestealer cults emitting a psychic beacon which attracts the Nids. Now they lurk in the sewers and don't do very much. They also fail to mention that Genestealers were around way before the rest of the Nids showed up.

I can tell.

The DNA-stealing thing has been gone since the 4th edition book was released. The Genestealer Cult references are actually a slight increase from the 5th edition book, which IIRC only has a single mention of a Genestealer infestation on Ichar IV. The GCult mentions in the 6th ed rulebook, etc. actually represent an upswing of sorts for Cults, which had basically disappeared from all fluff during 5th edition.

 Matt1785 wrote:
Meh, I enjoyed reading through the fluff in the book. The major disappointment for me was that the Tyranids are always beaten in the stories. There's truly nothing that dark about the Tyranids because they always lose.

I talked about this in the rumor thread. IMO, the studio doesn't see Tyranids as a proper hero or villain, but something more like a natural disaster to be overcome. That viewpoint then makes its way into all their writing, from fluff to rules.

Why does every SM chapter master get access to Eternal Warrior, while monstrous Tyranid creatures don't? Because it's heroic to have a SM character shrug off wounds that should have easily killed him. It's heroic to have some lowly psyker get lucky with a force toothpick and drop a Tyrannofex or Trygon in one blow. What isn't particularly cinematic or heroic is "Tyrannofex steps on SM officer."

*shrug* It's just the nature of the army.

The Chaos Gods are only very Human from a Human perspective. But from a Xeno race from another Galaxy they may also be relevant.

 gorgon wrote:

 Matt1785 wrote:
Meh, I enjoyed reading through the fluff in the book. The major disappointment for me was that the Tyranids are always beaten in the stories. There's truly nothing that dark about the Tyranids because they always lose.

I talked about this in the rumor thread. IMO, the studio doesn't see Tyranids as a proper hero or villain, but something more like a natural disaster to be overcome. That viewpoint then makes its way into all their writing, from fluff to rules.

Why does every SM chapter master get access to Eternal Warrior, while monstrous Tyranid creatures don't? Because it's heroic to have a SM character shrug off wounds that should have easily killed him. It's heroic to have some lowly psyker get lucky with a force toothpick and drop a Tyrannofex or Trygon in one blow. What isn't particularly cinematic or heroic is "Tyrannofex steps on SM officer."

*shrug* It's just the nature of the army.

On the bright side, now I can have several Tyrannofex for the price of one (well not quite, but you know what I mean) so the "avalanche of bugs" is a bit easier to pull off, and really, what's more "Tyranid" than that?

Xyptc wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

 Matt1785 wrote:
Meh, I enjoyed reading through the fluff in the book. The major disappointment for me was that the Tyranids are always beaten in the stories. There's truly nothing that dark about the Tyranids because they always lose.

I talked about this in the rumor thread. IMO, the studio doesn't see Tyranids as a proper hero or villain, but something more like a natural disaster to be overcome. That viewpoint then makes its way into all their writing, from fluff to rules.

Why does every SM chapter master get access to Eternal Warrior, while monstrous Tyranid creatures don't? Because it's heroic to have a SM character shrug off wounds that should have easily killed him. It's heroic to have some lowly psyker get lucky with a force toothpick and drop a Tyrannofex or Trygon in one blow. What isn't particularly cinematic or heroic is "Tyrannofex steps on SM officer."

*shrug* It's just the nature of the army.

On the bright side, now I can have several Tyrannofex for the price of one (well not quite, but you know what I mean) so the "avalanche of bugs" is a bit easier to pull off, and really, what's more "Tyranid" than that?

Coca cola?

Xyptc wrote:

 Stormphoenix wrote:
I never got that bit about Chaos only being in this galaxy. The Warp doesn't just exist in the galaxy alone, so surely sentient life in other galaxies must generate their own Chaos Gods...

Also, who's to say that although the Warp is a parallel dimension of sorts, that its scale is the same as our universe? Perhaps the Warp is like a blister on the skin of reality, and the blister only covers our galaxy? It's never been stated one way or another.

I can't remember which book its from but it clearly stated that realspace is a bubble in the sea of warp space, which suggests that the warp is everywhere.

 Melissia wrote:
Tyranids created My Little Pony and they don't eat people any more, they just force them to watch episodes of Friendship is Magic.

Truly, this new lore makes them more grimdark.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Xyptc wrote:
They embody humanoid emotions and concepts, and draw their power from humans (and other humanoids, see the Orks and Gork/Mork)

Orks don't feed Chaos, and are, in fact, quite resistant to it due to their psychology.

If memory serves me doesn't it explain orks do still feed chaos? Especially considering the gods don't really have that much of a focus (they like humanity because of ease of corruption and slaanesh has the eldar theming but xenos aren't past being gobbled up. Also, the god of magic, the god of change, god of war, etc.... why would they not benefit if they are feeding off of Eldar, humans, and an assortment of others. Why not orks as well then? Though perhaps I am wrong it just seems rather odd that they would not.


Psssht not grimdark enough. Come now if you want to go MLP you need to bring out the big guns. 3.5, 2. Nail them with that and watch them squirm. Okay fine maybe nids will die from not eating them but gosh darn it will it be glorious to see them squirm like a zoanthrope mwahahaha

Seems pretty much the same as 5th ed except some changes albeit minor in plot. One I managed to infer from reading from the artefact Ymgarl factor.

In 5th ed, the fluff states that the Ymgarl genestealers are usually not assimilated into the swarm as the hive ship may not wish to deal with their unstable mutations.

The exclusion of the ymgarl genestealers with a artefact called the ymgarl factor that grants their mutation to any in the swarm seems to sughest they've been finally assimilated back into the hive.

 jifel wrote:
The Doom is in there, just not his rules. The best and most noteworthy part was a conflict between Nids and a full Daemonic invasion, which finally answers that question of "Does the Shadow affect Daemons?" Spoilers below...










Nids win, crush the Daemons, who can't corrupt them and lose power due to shadows and lack of fear. Ichor is a poor offer to Khorne and Nids can out-evolve Nurgles plagues, and Nids hate eating Daemons and don't see their corpses as biomass.

That doesn't make sense i can't see how alien bugs could beat daemons, extremely powerful beings made up of pure chaos.

VampireDeLaVega wrote:
That doesn't make sense i can't see how alien bugs could beat daemons, extremely powerful beings made up of pure chaos.

The quote explains it. The Daemons suffer due to being unable to corrupt the Tyranids, and the shadow in the warp hurts the Daemons a little (since they're beings made up entirely of warp energy).

IIRC, its stated somewhere that the warp doesn't exist beyond the boundaries of our galaxy and that the interstellar void is reflected in the immaterium as an unfathomable nothingness (though this doesn't necessarily mean that other galaxies don't have their own instances of the warp).

The shadow doesn't affect deamons at all, it's when the nids work out that warp energy and big guns can kill deamons they start to lose, the deamons up to that point are crushing the nids, the interesting point is that nids consider deamons a rival predator that competes for a food source.

Seems the thing to take from this is that if the deamons can maintain a stable warp rift then the nids simply cannot win, and on the flip side if the nids work out how to destabilise said warp rift deamons can't possibly win.

I wanted some fluff where they invaded a tomb world, that woulda been fun

I remember in the last Daemons codex, or possibly the last Tyranids codex there was a short paragraph about Tyranids fighting Daemons and they Grey Knights used exterminatus on the planet as it was implied their was some kind of horrific mutations going on and the world was far beyond redemption. Does that story hint at any of these kinds of things?

 Formosa wrote:
The shadow doesn't affect deamons at all, it's when the nids work out that warp energy and big guns can kill deamons they start to lose, the deamons up to that point are crushing the nids, the interesting point is that nids consider deamons a rival predator that competes for a food source.

Seems the thing to take from this is that if the deamons can maintain a stable warp rift then the nids simply cannot win, and on the flip side if the nids work out how to destabilise said warp rift deamons can't possibly win.

I wanted some fluff where they invaded a tomb world, that woulda been fun

I doubt they'd bother. Not much organic life to be had on one of those worlds.

 Formosa wrote:
The shadow doesn't affect deamons at all, it's when the nids work out that warp energy and big guns can kill deamons they start to lose, the deamons up to that point are crushing the nids, the interesting point is that nids consider deamons a rival predator that competes for a food source.

Seems the thing to take from this is that if the deamons can maintain a stable warp rift then the nids simply cannot win, and on the flip side if the nids work out how to destabilise said warp rift deamons can't possibly win.

I wanted some fluff where they invaded a tomb world, that woulda been fun

Hmm not quite true - the codex says:

"...the city was smothered by blanket of muffling psionic static that caused the Daemons to flicker and fade"

"The Hive Mind was leeching their energies, servering the Daemons from the sustaining powers of the Empyrean"

It also smothers their pyskchic powers like any other psyker.....

 Formosa wrote:
The shadow doesn't affect deamons at all, it's when the nids work out that warp energy and big guns can kill deamons they start to lose, the deamons up to that point are crushing the nids, the interesting point is that nids consider deamons a rival predator that competes for a food source.

Seems the thing to take from this is that if the deamons can maintain a stable warp rift then the nids simply cannot win, and on the flip side if the nids work out how to destabilise said warp rift deamons can't possibly win.

I wanted some fluff where they invaded a tomb world, that woulda been fun

Makes sense, it's a case of which side gets to deploy the infinite numbers card (or rather, counter the other side's infinite numbers card). I'm glad they put this in, it's one of those things that players have speculated on and it's nice to see it being looked at in the fluff. It's just a single encounter too, so it's not a hard and fast "Tyranids always win" or "Daemons always win" either; plenty of wiggle room depending on story and situation.

The Great Four are limited to the Milky Way. The "dead space" between galaxies apparently acts as a "buffer zone" between regions of the Warp and the area the Chaos Gods can effectively influence.

It should also be noted that 3 out of 4 of the Great Four were created by humans or as a direct result of actions on Terra.

The odds of the C'Tan having been the creators of the Tyranids seems... slim, as it is very much unlike the C'Tan. They were not really creators of anything, they just drifted about, being all star-goddish and unknowable, eating stars and such before they noticed the Necrontyr.

 Medium of Death wrote:
I remember in the last Daemons codex, or possibly the last Tyranids codex there was a short paragraph about Tyranids fighting Daemons and they Grey Knights used exterminatus on the planet as it was implied their was some kind of horrific mutations going on and the world was far beyond redemption. Does that story hint at any of these kinds of things?

They have a new daemon/tyranid battle. It is pretty good.

VampireDeLaVega wrote:

That doesn't make sense i can't see how alien bugs could beat daemons, extremely powerful beings made up of pure chaos.

It was in the material realm. Presumably, within the warp, pretty much nothing has any chance against daemons if the gods are really serious about it (I'll assume they're letting Draigo stomp around there because it's entertaining. After all, nothing he does in there has any real consequence so why not see how many of your servants he can bop on the head if it's giving you a good show?)

On a planet outside the warp however? Daemons only have limited time there in the first place without a constant source of the right type of emotional/soul energy, which Tyrannids don't provide (the things aren't even sentient in most cases).

I don't think the Gods are limited to one galaxy or even just one universe. In Dead Sky Black Sun they talk about another galaxy having being butchered for Khorne and the Daemon Codex talks about Tzeentch hearing the dreams of every sentient in the universe.

Black Library books are not known for their adherence to the information presented in the Codices.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
The shadow doesn't affect deamons at all, it's when the nids work out that warp energy and big guns can kill deamons they start to lose, the deamons up to that point are crushing the nids, the interesting point is that nids consider deamons a rival predator that competes for a food source.

Seems the thing to take from this is that if the deamons can maintain a stable warp rift then the nids simply cannot win, and on the flip side if the nids work out how to destabilise said warp rift deamons can't possibly win.

I wanted some fluff where they invaded a tomb world, that woulda been fun

Hmm not quite true - the codex says:

"...the city was smothered by blanket of muffling psionic static that caused the Daemons to flicker and fade"

"The Hive Mind was leeching their energies, servering the Daemons from the sustaining powers of the Empyrean"

It also smothers their pyskchic powers like any other psyker.....

Wait... so the hive mind can now leech daemon energy huh? Thought it was biomass and how do you smother the psychic power of a daemon if a daemon is not a psyker but instead is just warp stuff massed together? And I still don't quite get if the shadow is just a blotter or void. Void really doesn't make much sense but I've heard it that way many a time.

In terms of the domains of the warp gods, both are right and wrong! Because there's so many claims of canon that you can't tell one over the other they might just both be propoganda xD

 Stormphoenix wrote:

Xyptc wrote:

 Stormphoenix wrote:
I never got that bit about Chaos only being in this galaxy. The Warp doesn't just exist in the galaxy alone, so surely sentient life in other galaxies must generate their own Chaos Gods...

Also, who's to say that although the Warp is a parallel dimension of sorts, that its scale is the same as our universe? Perhaps the Warp is like a blister on the skin of reality, and the blister only covers our galaxy? It's never been stated one way or another.

I can't remember which book its from but it clearly stated that realspace is a bubble in the sea of warp space, which suggests that the warp is everywhere.

I think you are conflating the description of the function of a Gellar Field around a starship and transposing it to all of reality.

Nahh I know what a Gellar field is I think it was 3rd edition Chaos? It stated that the Gods are not in any particular hurry to take over the galaxy as the warp was there before the bubble of the material universe appeared and will be there after it's gone.

Hrm... I'll have to check. The language of the passage, the whole bubble-reference, just seems so very similar to the description of how a Gellar Field works.

I mean, I like the idea of the Warp being a universe-wide thing but it's kind of contraindicated by other fluff that indicates that humanity created 3 out of 4 major Chaos Gods and that the only signs of extra-galactic, non-Tyranid life have been Orky.

It is possible that the warp is an universal thing, but that at the same time the Chaos Gods are limited to this galaxy.

Anything for the popular ork holiday destination known as the octarius war?

They do talk about how the orks and the nids are fighting it out. Neather side seems to be winning or loosing, although the tyranids are branching out to get more biomass to fuel the war.

Basicly they use the war as a backdrop to explain how a small fleet of tyranids are crasping for food in a plannet with orks on it. The nids gurilla fight the orks and they manadge to kille the pirate ork controling that plannet. The orks fall apart and the nids absorb bio mass and joins the big fight, and it is back to the backdrop. Presumably these sort of things a are played out all near this war with both teams winning some battles.

I like soup.

The Warp used to be a calm place where the Warp Xeno's lived happily ... until all the psychic races turned up and turned it into a hellish stormy sea.

Which makes sense why they hate all life I guess!

Even handier for them to realise they can feed off emotion and influence things essentially in a different universe (reality)

Can't read it for several months. Did they change anything to ymgarl? I think I heard that they still have a small excerpt in maybe (the doom does I know that). Does it change the fluff in any way?

 StarTrotter wrote:
Wait... so the hive mind can now leech daemon energy huh? Thought it was biomass and how do you smother the psychic power of a daemon if a daemon is not a psyker but instead is just warp stuff massed together? And I still don't quite get if the shadow is just a blotter or void. Void really doesn't make much sense but I've heard it that way many a time.

In terms of the domains of the warp gods, both are right and wrong! Because there's so many claims of canon that you can't tell one over the other they might just both be propoganda xD

Your not understanding things properly. To put things properly, using D&D, the Tyranids have a null field. You know, those nifty little artifacts that emit a field of "No Magic" while it is uncovered because it is so strongly imbued with negative energy? The Hive Mind doesn't leech anything, it simply directs. The Tyranids gobble up the biomass, which includes most of the planet, then move on. The Hive Mind simply is that null field. A communal intelligence so strong that it nullifies the warp in the general area by saturating it with itself beyond the warp's limits. The demons rely on those emotions used by sentient beings to empower their forms, such as rage, etc. Khornate daemons cant feed off the battle because what is being spilled is just Tyranid ichor. There are countless beasts howling and attacking, but they aren't bloodthirsty warriors angry and fighting for a home and family, etc. Simply drones attacking with a mindless attitude. Daemons of Nurgle tried to force disease onto them, but they continuously adapted. No emotions fed the daemons of Slaanesh, and I am not really sure what the daemons of Tzeentch would have gotten out of this. They all starved on a lack of emotion.

In other words, the Tyranids are just to alien to Chaos.

If only the Lord of Change didn't retreat and instead fought alongside the other two daemon lords than i think the daemons would had won the planet.

At that point the battle was to stacked in favor of the nids.

 Tyran wrote:
At that point the battle was to stacked in favor of the nids.

The Lord of charge got bored that they don't give emotions so he left. The daemons weren't even trying to really fight, if they were the alien bugs would had got roflstomp.

VampireDeLaVega wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
At that point the battle was to stacked in favor of the nids.

The Lord of charge got bored that they don't give emotions so he left. The daemons weren't even trying to really fight, if they were the alien bugs would had got roflstomp.

Demons don't need to be eaten by Tyranids. In fact, in seems that the warp materials that make up demons is actually volatile with their biology. That being said, all Tyranids have to do is force you to waste your energy, weakening yourselves, before finally overwhelming you and destroying the material form to send the daemons back to the warp.

Reply by: Hlaine Larkin mk2 - click to view full reply 

37790

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/17 19:46:49

Post by: Hlaine Larkin mk2

 StarTrotter wrote:
Can't read it for several months. Did they change anything to ymgarl? I think I heard that they still have a small excerpt in maybe (the doom does I know that). Does it change the fluff in any way?

The Ymgral infestation is recorded as wiped out ~750.M41 in the last SM codex

Reply by: TiamatRoar - click to view full reply 

73675

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/17 19:47:50

Post by: TiamatRoar

Tyrannids can kill daemons the same way everyone else kills them in the material realm (note that killing a daemon in the material realm just sends it back to the warp, but hey, at least you got rid of the bugger)

By slashing, burning, crushing, shooting, exploding, stomping, pounting, eviscerating, or any other variation of extreme physical duress. Starving counts, too, just like everything else, although what daemons "eat" is significantly different from most material beings (but still applies. In this case, the tyrannids can starve them out because there are not enough mortals around to feed them energy)

It's the immaterial realm where you're inevitably screwed against daemons (Note that Draigo is explicitly stated to be achieving NOTHING when he kills a daemon or chaos structure in the warp. It just reforms anyways. So it's a war he, as well as anything else, will never win in there). But the Battle of Shadowbrink wasn't that.

Reply by: Kovnik Obama - click to view full reply 

55600

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/17 22:33:39

Post by: Kovnik Obama

 Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:
Can't read it for several months. Did they change anything to ymgarl? I think I heard that they still have a small excerpt in maybe (the doom does I know that). Does it change the fluff in any way?

The Ymgral infestation is recorded as wiped out ~750.M41 in the last SM codex

Probably just going with the whole ''The Imperium has tried to eradicate them many times, and often thought they had succeeded, but in every cases the Ymgral re-emerged many years later..." thing, IMHO.

Reply by: the shrouded lord - click to view full reply 

74772

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/17 23:25:39

Post by: the shrouded lord

TiamatRoar wrote:
Tyrannids can kill daemons the same way everyone else kills them in the material realm (note that killing a daemon in the material realm just sends it back to the warp, but hey, at least you got rid of the bugger)

By slashing, burning, crushing, shooting, exploding, stomping, pounting, eviscerating, or any other variation of extreme physical duress. Starving counts, too, just like everything else, although what daemons "eat" is significantly different from most material beings (but still applies. In this case, the tyrannids can starve them out because there are not enough mortals around to feed them energy)

It's the immaterial realm where you're inevitably screwed against daemons (Note that Draigo is explicitly stated to be achieving NOTHING when he kills a daemon or chaos structure in the warp. It just reforms anyways. So it's a war he, as well as anything else, will never win in there). But the Battle of Shadowbrink wasn't that.

thank you.

Reply by: StarTrotter - click to view full reply 

72133

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/18 01:15:09

Post by: StarTrotter

So I read it. I do wish they didn't go for poetry with the ichor blood for Khorne. Khorne not getting emotions can explain it but ichor blood would fuel him if the spilling of blood fills somebody. That or there are probably some xenos races that don't feed him and even some marines that bleed ammo and fuel. So if they continue making books, I'd enjoy a revenge of the 4 daemons striking back at nids but making it far more horrific mwahahaha. The kind where the Imperium really doesn't want either to win. If chaos daemons win hurray the warp breaks out! And if the nids when the climactic battle..... let's just say some nasty gribblies will be crawling out bashing right into an imperial fleet.

Oh, and thank you for explaining the ymgarl part! So I assume that nids accepted the biomass again?

Reply by: TiamatRoar - click to view full reply 

73675

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/18 03:29:18

Post by: TiamatRoar

 StarTrotter wrote:
So I read it. I do wish they didn't go for poetry with the ichor blood for Khorne. Khorne not getting emotions can explain it but ichor blood would fuel him if the spilling of blood fills somebody. That or there are probably some xenos races that don't feed him and even some marines that bleed ammo and fuel. So if they continue making books, I'd enjoy a revenge of the 4 daemons striking back at nids but making it far more horrific mwahahaha. The kind where the Imperium really doesn't want either to win. If chaos daemons win hurray the warp breaks out! And if the nids when the climactic battle..... let's just say some nasty gribblies will be crawling out bashing right into an imperial fleet.

The last time that happened in the fluff, the Imperium said "Screw this." and exteriminatus'd the whole thing (they had to send in a bunch of Marines and Grey Knights to retrieve some holy artifacts first, though. Needless to say, the mission was quite hellacious)

Reply by: StarTrotter - click to view full reply 

72133

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/18 04:57:56

Post by: StarTrotter

Breaking news: First Space Marines to ever retire from duty. Space Marine: I've seen things things you could never believe man!

Reply by: TiamatRoar - click to view full reply 

73675

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/18 05:27:47

Post by: TiamatRoar

 StarTrotter wrote:
Breaking news: First Space Marines to ever retire from duty. Space Marine: I've seen things things you could never believe man!

That's very close to what happened, actually. The non-Grey Knights space marines (the Sky Sentinals chapter) submitted to a voluntary mind-wipe afterwards. At least according to the wiki, it was actually due to the horrors they saw (as opposed to having to get mind-wiped because they gained knowledge of the Grey Knights, maybe?). Which would go to show just how horrifically traumatic getting into that mess was if it could make even space marines say "Pass the brain bleach, please."

Reply by: StarTrotter - click to view full reply 

72133

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/18 06:49:09

Post by: StarTrotter

Yeah grey knights you all can enjoy those memories personally I don't want to be scrubbing my eyes with soap every day *brain bleach*

Reply by: clively - click to view full reply 

27004

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/19 02:11:30

Post by: clively

I think it was the last Cain novel where they claimed to have figured out that the galaxy had been Over run by nids once before.

I was really hoping a blurb about that would have made it into the codex. You'd think GW would have enough control over their own people to keep some of the fluf even halfway straight.

Reply by: BrianDavion - click to view full reply 

79409

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/19 02:29:00

Post by: BrianDavion

clively wrote:
I think it was the last Cain novel where they claimed to have figured out that the galaxy had been Over run by nids once before.

I was really hoping a blurb about that would have made it into the codex. You'd think GW would have enough control over their own people to keep some of the fluf even halfway straight.

I've noticed a few cases where codexes outright clash with the novels. for example the 6e SM codex says Cassus lead the SM forces at Taris Ultra

Reply by: the shrouded lord - click to view full reply 

74772

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/19 05:23:16

Post by: the shrouded lord

clively wrote:
I think it was the last Cain novel where they claimed to have figured out that the galaxy had been Over run by nids once before.

I was really hoping a blurb about that would have made it into the codex. You'd think GW would have enough control over their own people to keep some of the fluf even halfway straight.

didn't that happen in halo?

Reply by: Mr Morden - click to view full reply 

30490

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/19 10:43:12

Post by: Mr Morden

 the shrouded lord wrote:

clively wrote:
I think it was the last Cain novel where they claimed to have figured out that the galaxy had been Over run by nids once before.

I was really hoping a blurb about that would have made it into the codex. You'd think GW would have enough control over their own people to keep some of the fluf even halfway straight.

didn't that happen in halo?

Is that the one about where it begins with the crash landing ? If so IIRC they found an ancient Hive ship but not that the whole galaxy had been invaded before - unless its in the Tau one as not got that one yet.

Reply by: the shrouded lord - click to view full reply 

74772

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/19 10:45:17

Post by: the shrouded lord

I meant the game franchise. There's a book called halo?

Reply by: Mr Morden - click to view full reply 

30490

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/19 11:06:39

Post by: Mr Morden

 the shrouded lord wrote:
I meant the game franchise. There's a book called halo?

Sorry I meant the Cain books - wrong quote I think

Reply by: Noctem - click to view full reply 

61535

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/19 11:16:43

Post by: Noctem

 Stormphoenix wrote:
It's pretty poor. Bear in mind I've not read 'Nid fluff since 2nd ed but :

The Tyran invasion is really sketchy and not nearly as good at conveying the sheer scale of a Nid invasion. Was much better in the older versions. Unsure why they changed putting the data codex into space too.

The Hivemind is now much more of a calculating, intelligent being, whereas before it was literally just a term for the Nid superconciousness, that didn't think about much other than eating.

The Swarmlord is a stupid piece of fluff, its meant to be a race of anonymous swarms, there should not be some character that magically gets "reuploaded" every time he died and spawned out again, its stupid. The Nid's don't have a supreme commander, thats the while point, its a hive.

They removed all mention of Nids adapting using DNA from our galaxy (Biovores being made from Orks, Zoanthropes being made from Eldar , Guard being made from Marines), none of these bio-forms are supposed to exist until after the Nids have had a chance to accrue biomass from our galaxy.

They removed the fluff about Genestealer cults emitting a psychic beacon which attracts the Nids. Now they lurk in the sewers and don't do very much. They also fail to mention that Genestealers were around way before the rest of the Nids showed up.

Actually, every single Hive Tyrant and perhaps other synapse creatures get their memory "uploaded", so that's not a stupid piece of fluff heh although having one special Hive Tyrant that gets made differently in dire times is kind of meh.

Reply by: Tyran - click to view full reply 

76888

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/19 15:20:10

Post by: Tyran

 the shrouded lord wrote:

clively wrote:
I think it was the last Cain novel where they claimed to have figured out that the galaxy had been Over run by nids once before.

I was really hoping a blurb about that would have made it into the codex. You'd think GW would have enough control over their own people to keep some of the fluf even halfway straight.

didn't that happen in halo?

What it has to do with Halo?

Reply by: CthuluIsSpy - click to view full reply 

47547

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/19 15:22:09

Post by: CthuluIsSpy

 Tyran wrote:

 the shrouded lord wrote:

clively wrote:
I think it was the last Cain novel where they claimed to have figured out that the galaxy had been Over run by nids once before.

I was really hoping a blurb about that would have made it into the codex. You'd think GW would have enough control over their own people to keep some of the fluf even halfway straight.

didn't that happen in halo?

What it has to do with Halo?

Iirc, there was a plot element that a long time ago, the galaxy suffered a flood endemic.

However, considering that Black Library (and especially Mitchell - See his portrayal of the SoB) tends to take several "liberties" with the background, that is hardly a credible source of information.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 the shrouded lord wrote:
I meant the game franchise. There's a book called halo?

Yes, actually. There have been some novelizations of the Halo game.

Reply by: Tyran - click to view full reply 

76888

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/19 15:31:29

Post by: Tyran

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Iirc, there was a plot element that a long time ago, the galaxy suffered a flood endemic.

However, considering that Black Library (and especially Mitchell - See his portrayal of the SoB) tends to take several "liberties" with the background, that is hardly a credible source of information.

Yes I know that, it is a basic element of Halo's plot. Still the Flood is one thing and the Tyranids are another different thing.

Yes, actually. There have been some novelizations of the Halo game.

There are 11 novels, several short stories, some comics and some videos.

Reply by: the shrouded lord - click to view full reply 

74772

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/19 15:38:29

Post by: the shrouded lord

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 the shrouded lord wrote:

clively wrote:
I think it was the last Cain novel where they claimed to have figured out that the galaxy had been Over run by nids once before.

I was really hoping a blurb about that would have made it into the codex. You'd think GW would have enough control over their own people to keep some of the fluf even halfway straight.

didn't that happen in halo?

What it has to do with Halo?

Iirc, there was a plot element that a long time ago, the galaxy suffered a flood endemic.

However, considering that Black Library (and especially Mitchell - See his portrayal of the SoB) tends to take several "liberties" with the background, that is hardly a credible source of information.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 the shrouded lord wrote:
I meant the game franchise. There's a book called halo?

Yes, actually. There have been some novelizations of the Halo game.

Yes I know, I own several of them including
Halo: fall of reach, halo: evolutions, halo: cole protocol, halo: the Thursday war, halo: contact harvest, halo: glass lands, and halo: primordium, halo: cryptum.

Reply by: Kain - click to view full reply 

57646

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/19 16:14:31

Post by: Kain

The only major new fluff piece is a battle between the Tyranids and a major Daemonic incursion. The fluff is otherwise rather lazy and I wish they put some more effort into it. But I suppose we can wait for the supplements to start trickling in and providing us with new material.

I also can't really picture how the Hive Crone is in anyway competitive against Star Furies or the like in space.

Those things are 70 meter long (by comparison, Godzilla has, until the new movie, ranged from 50-100 meters in height) bricks with nuclear level firepower and more guns than the entire battle of Britain and you're expecting me to believe that a harpy modification can do diddly to stop them?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 the shrouded lord wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 the shrouded lord wrote:

clively wrote:
I think it was the last Cain novel where they claimed to have figured out that the galaxy had been Over run by nids once before.

I was really hoping a blurb about that would have made it into the codex. You'd think GW would have enough control over their own people to keep some of the fluf even halfway straight.

didn't that happen in halo?

What it has to do with Halo?

Iirc, there was a plot element that a long time ago, the galaxy suffered a flood endemic.

However, considering that Black Library (and especially Mitchell - See his portrayal of the SoB) tends to take several "liberties" with the background, that is hardly a credible source of information.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 the shrouded lord wrote:
I meant the game franchise. There's a book called halo?

Yes, actually. There have been some novelizations of the Halo game.

Yes I know, I own several of them including
Halo: fall of reach, halo: evolutions, halo: cole protocol, halo: the Thursday war, halo: contact harvest, halo: glass lands, and halo: primordium, halo: cryptum.

The only Halo books worth reading are the Forerunner saga and a handful of early books. Everything else ranges from poor to inhumanly terrible, If it's written by Traviss, assume it's C.S Goto level scheisse where she gets to spank to her anti-transhumanism boner.

Reply by: JeffVimes - click to view full reply 

74398

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/21 10:39:15

Post by: JeffVimes

Main change? No mention to Narvhal. And that's a good thing, because it was an idiotic change.

Reply by: Kain - click to view full reply 

57646

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/21 11:24:51

Post by: Kain

 JeffVimes wrote:
Main change? No mention to Narvhal. And that's a good thing, because it was an idiotic change.

Gravitic FTL was actually kind of cool.

Reply by: the shrouded lord - click to view full reply 

74772

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/21 11:34:45

Post by: the shrouded lord

 Kain wrote:

 JeffVimes wrote:
Main change? No mention to Narvhal. And that's a good thing, because it was an idiotic change.

Gravitic FTL was actually kind of cool.

It was stupid. Fullstop. you see that, full stop. Thats right .<that's a full stop. This is too .
And these .....>

Reply by: JeffVimes - click to view full reply 

74398

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/21 11:40:12

Post by: JeffVimes

Not even talking about the gravitic FTL, but how are you suppose to invade half the galaxy in 200 years when you rely on a slower than light vessel to travel between systems?
Tyranids going in the warp just make more sense.

Reply by: Kain - click to view full reply 

57646

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/21 12:42:03

Post by: Kain

 JeffVimes wrote:
Not even talking about the gravitic FTL, but how are you suppose to invade half the galaxy in 200 years when you rely on a slower than light vessel to travel between systems?
Tyranids going in the warp just make more sense.

The Narvhal system says that the Tyranids create gravity corridors that let the Tyranids go faster than light. It's slower than warp travel, but it's still faster than light.

What you should really ask is how you mesh the Tau "near light" drives with their timeline which requires FTL all over the damn place.

Reply by: lord_blackfang - click to view full reply 

5269

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/21 12:52:58

Post by: lord_blackfang

Shadowbrink was really cool and it shows that the Nids are so dangerous that eventually the entire galaxy will have to ally against them. With Necrons pretty much having dedicated themselves to the cause, and now even freakin' Daemons joining up, well... I can see everyone except Nids being battle brothers in 7th

Reply by: Iron_Captain - click to view full reply 

80673

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/21 13:03:09

Post by: Iron_Captain

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Shadowbrink was really cool and it shows that the Nids are so dangerous that eventually the entire galaxy will have to ally against them. With Necrons pretty much having dedicated themselves to the cause, and now even freakin' Daemons joining up, well... I can see everyone except Nids being battle brothers in 7th

And Grey Knight/Deamon armies will be the new cheese

Reply by: JeffVimes - click to view full reply 

74398

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/21 13:21:10

Post by: JeffVimes

 Kain wrote:

 JeffVimes wrote:
Not even talking about the gravitic FTL, but how are you suppose to invade half the galaxy in 200 years when you rely on a slower than light vessel to travel between systems?
Tyranids going in the warp just make more sense.

The Narvhal system says that the Tyranids create gravity corridors that let the Tyranids go faster than light. It's slower than warp travel, but it's still faster than light.

What you should really ask is how you mesh the Tau "near light" drives with their timeline which requires FTL all over the damn place.

Yes I get this point, but how is the Narvhal travelling faster than light to a new system, then? This is my main issue with this thing. At some point with this system, something has to move at a sub-luminic speed.
Tau are going in the warp, aren't they? Miniature warp travel, but still warp. And their expansion is nowhere near as comparable as the one of the tyranids.

Reply by: Kain - click to view full reply 

57646

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/21 13:37:36

Post by: Kain

 JeffVimes wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 JeffVimes wrote:
Not even talking about the gravitic FTL, but how are you suppose to invade half the galaxy in 200 years when you rely on a slower than light vessel to travel between systems?
Tyranids going in the warp just make more sense.

The Narvhal system says that the Tyranids create gravity corridors that let the Tyranids go faster than light. It's slower than warp travel, but it's still faster than light.

What you should really ask is how you mesh the Tau "near light" drives with their timeline which requires FTL all over the damn place.

Yes I get this point, but how is the Narvhal travelling faster than light to a new system, then? This is my main issue with this thing. At some point with this system, something has to move at a sub-luminic speed.
Tau are going in the warp, aren't they? Miniature warp travel, but still warp. And their expansion is nowhere near as comparable as the one of the tyranids.

...The Narvhal travels with the fleet and goes through it's own corridor.

I thought this was obvious?

Reply by: JeffVimes - click to view full reply 

74398

Is there any new significant background from the latest Tyranid Codex? @ 2014/01/21 14:13:43

Post by: JeffVimes

My bad, my expectation was that the Narwhal had to be close to the system to "harness the gravity". Just reread the 5th ed codex and it is suppose to travel with the fleet.

Still not sure about how you are suppose to harness gravity from light years away, but lets not open this can of worm.