In a decade or so's time, when the majority of homes have a 3D printer, I imagine GW going the way of HMV and Virgin megastores. These stores went into gradual decline due to the public being able to spend 20p on a CD of music you have chosen rather than on a £10/£15 chart CD. So when it costs £30 in ten years time for a tactical squad from GW, or less than £10 on a home 3D printer, then many people (who don't care about copyright law), will surely go the way of homebrew. Now I'm not advocating this illegal practice, but it must be taken into account when considering the future of GW. Nobody thought laser drives on home pcs would have the effect on the music industry that it did, so lets not underestimate the impact 3D printers may have. The templates will be all over the net. (And GW won't be the only ones)
What do you think?
GW should not be worried yet. 3d printers are still very far from being available to the average household, and what you get from a 3d printer is still inferior to the products GW makes.
In time, GW will have to adapt, like all companies have to.
Besides that, I'm not sure what people would print, the free files floating around online are absolute crap, and anyone with a decent amount of skill knows the real value that their output is worth, they aren't going to make 3d design files freely available to the masses unless they have a way to make money off of it.
People claimed copied cds would be inferior, whether this is true or not, it made no difference. Now it won't start to have an effect until 3D printers are common place, and even then it will only be a gradual decline. But it will happen, not just in the minitures industry either.
When everybody has a 3D printer, there will be far more people with a large amount of experiance and skill with them. That alone will bring prices for templates down, some people will even do it for fun, like they do with program and mmorpeg design (I have a friend who created a parallel tibia so we could go hunting via LAN without spawning grounds being overcrowded for example.).
Automatically Appended Next Post: And he did that 8 years ago!!!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
lord_blackfang wrote: We have this thread every week. No. Not now, not until we have actual replicators and post-scarcity socialism and stuff.
Sorry I hadn't seen this thread the entire time i've been on dakka. I must have been very unobservant.
Probably in a couple decades we'll have affordable 3D printers. Also, versatile and powerful home PCs will be no more, replaced by lame tablets, cloud nodes and I-somethings with built-in DRM and the processing power of a dishwasher.
I think real competition from 3d printers is closer than you might think. GW is probably looking at how they might make $$$ using this technology. If they are not already doing it they should start in my opinion. Here are a few example I have made using a Makerbot. It is a pretty low end 3d printer and can't do really great detail but I think for some models it is serviceable.
Thunderfire Cannon
One of these weapon mounts/shrounds is printed, the other came from the kit.
An ADL. Proportions are off (I did not have the actual model to work from) but otherwise servicable.
I was the "artist" on these adn my skills are not great. With more talent I think these could be even better right now.
That's amazing! I estimated over a decade... but if you can do that now with what you claim is little experiance and a low quality printer...
You'r not pulling my leg are you? You did really make these on a 3D printer right?
It's not a matter of quality. Even garage hobby companies tend to 3D print their master models nowadays and then recast them in resin or metal.
But printers of this quality will never be common household items, they simply aren't useful enough for the majority of people. Who needs them? Artists, hobbyists, designers, architects. Not enough to make them affordable on the level of everyday tech like gaming consoles or dishwashers.
Well yes, but im sure when the regular printer was invented the same thing was said. Who needs to print things? I myself could think of plenty of things the 3d printer could be used for.
Well how many people thought the same thing about computers, house hold printers, tablets, and PDA (now just smart phones)
Technology is limited at first because people seem unsure of how a new device will affect their lives, because people are fond of the status quo. Then when you realize that your smart phone can give you driving directions right to the tiny blue tooth in your ear while you're driving, or buy tickets for anything while waiting on a bus, or... you get the idea.
3D printers will probably find a spot in the average home. Missing a small peg for a shelf? Print out a new one. The people will find a use for it, just because the market hasn't realized it yet doesn't mean it won't become a high demand.
lord_blackfang wrote: It's not a matter of quality. Even garage hobby companies tend to 3D print their master models nowadays and then recast them in resin or metal.
But printers of this quality will never be common household items, they simply aren't useful enough for the majority of people. Who needs them? Artists, hobbyists, designers, architects. Not enough to make them affordable on the level of everyday tech like gaming consoles or dishwashers.
Of this quality? No. Give it a couple years, 3D printed materials will be indistinguishable from something professionally cast.
It might be a while before we see people with 3d printers in their homes, but I can certainly see where it's possible to make models today for costs on par with buying them new from GW.
There's still an issue of fine detail, but the ones I have seen coming out of my local university's imaging labs are very close to the real thing. Part of the detail issue has to do with the fact they were scanned through a 3d scanner.
In the states we have maker spaces cropping up all over the place. Split the cost of the printer and scanner with your community. Buy your plastic and go to town.
Until you get into very expensive printers, the quality is just not there yet.
It will be eventually, but it will be a while.
Do a search, this thread does indeed come up regularly.
Here is how it goes;
1 - Wow, 3d printing! I just discovered this, do you think this will change our game?
2 - wow, look at what we can make?
3 - Wait a second, that quality is terrible. Well how much is it for the better quality?
4 - Better quality is very expensive and very slow, but has its uses for masters for casting or such.
5 - hmmm...guess this was not as big deal as we thought....
They will get there, they are not there now if you want quality.
Don't get me wrong - for making custom bits or masters.....it may be a good thing, and will get better.
Or if you want low quality prototypes....then yes.
Print a marine at high quality, he will take an hour, and cost over $10. Although, if gw keeps raising their prices....
GW, just like most producers of small easily manufactured items, need to take notice and get in front of the coming changes.
GW needs to make files compatible with certain 3D printers then licenses users to print their own armies. Perhaps you spend $50 for a space marine template or $10 for a special character. This would be nearly 100% profit to GW as they wouldn't have to produce, package and ship those models. Meanwhile regular consumers would gladly pay to print their own.
Will files show up on the internet? Absolutely. However, the software industry has already dealt with pirating and figured out that you can't stop it so focus on the paying clients. This attitude change has worked wonders. Heck, GW could even provide some basic marines for free while charging for certain poses etc.
Point is, there is a viable way forward for GW. The only question is whether they will learn from other industries that have gone through this or if they will repeat the old mistakes of trying to sue everyone to keep the cat in the bag... Interestingly, the oldest affected industry were the first books that were hand copied by monks. The monks were ultimately put out of business by the printing press; if they had gone ahead and become typesetters then they could have kept with it for a few hundred more years... Old habits die hard though .
Some of the more current ones include book publishers (they just can't catch a break), music and software. Essentially book publishers and software makers found out that most people want to pay for the product. Yes, people will happily copy, distribute and otherwise steal it. So you make it reasonably difficult to do that while making it far easier for someone to give you their money. The honest people will stay honest and the crooks, well, there are always crooks anyway. The music industry is a little different. Most people know that Amazon and iTunes is a great distribution method while the RIAA hasn't figured out that going that route is far better for them. In part it's due to how that industry is structured, which makes the mob look downright nice. So, it'll still take them awhile to figure it out.
I'm only slightly worried that GW management has no clue what to do. Their recent litigation against a few companies, along with trade terms they like to impose shows that they don't really think globally and simply don't understand how tech really works. However, I do have hope that they'll hire the right people at some point that can show them the way.
Regarding quality. The pace of innovation in today's world is simply astounding. I can walk into about 3 local stores that sell 3D printers; meanwhile the number of 3D printing related kickstarters is just insane. You can bet that the quality level is going to go up in a very short amount of time and that prices will drop like a rock. I wouldn't estimate 10 years. Instead it's probably closer to 2; 3 at the most.
Yep, 3D printers have a bright future ahead. Internet piracy? Not so much.
Our generation has enjoyed a high degree of online freedom, but we're moving into an internet environment where controls are becoming tighter, and technical barriers are erected to limit what we can and can't do with our devices. Actually, a future dominated by the Itunes App Store strikes me as more likely than the post-capitalist free for all envisioned by the maker culture.
3D printing won't find the lawless environment p2p networks and CD copiers found in the 90-00s. By the time it becomes popular and affordable, industries affected by this technology would have plenty of time and resources to adapt.
davethepak wrote: Until you get into very expensive printers, the quality is just not there yet.
It will be eventually, but it will be a while.
Do a search, this thread does indeed come up regularly.
Here is how it goes;
1 - Wow, 3d printing! I just discovered this, do you think this will change our game?
2 - wow, look at what we can make?
3 - Wait a second, that quality is terrible. Well how much is it for the better quality?
4 - Better quality is very expensive and very slow, but has its uses for masters for casting or such.
5 - hmmm...guess this was not as big deal as we thought....
They will get there, they are not there now if you want quality.
Don't get me wrong - for making custom bits or masters.....it may be a good thing, and will get better.
Or if you want low quality prototypes....then yes.
Print a marine at high quality, he will take an hour, and cost over $10. Although, if gw keeps raising their prices....
I've actually known about 3D printing for quite a while. It was months and months ago that one printed an ak47, and months before that that it was first shown on tommorrows world on Euro News. I've also had discussions about it with my friends, I fancied one to do with GW this time (you know it being dakka dakka and all) though and decided to bring it up after posting on another thread. So I am not an overly impressed teenager.
This is the first time I have seen evidence of such good quality printing avaliable to the general public though.
Lastly, If you think 3D printing not a big deal... remember this thread in 20 years time...
10 years ago it would have taken me an hour with the processor of a huge desktop computer plugged into the internet to download a 118page pdf document. 3 weeks ago it took me a few seconds on a wireless device that is primarily designed for communication and also fits snuggly into my hand, whilst at half signal, to download the 118page cypher data slate.
I don't know all that much about 3d printing, except that they're quite expensive compared to a bucket of casting resin and some moulding wax, but I think the possibility is there. I'd give it five years before they're in regular use for home copying of GW products, but that depends on the availability of accurate files needed to make the products, and I think that's where the stranglehold will be - GW is litigious enough without people copying their minis en masse, and they'll have to expand their legal department fivefold...
That didn't work for the music industry or the movie industry though. Now Agent_Tremolo makes a very valid point that industries affected by the 3D printer will have learnt from these mistakes, but I'm not convinced. The internet makes it far too easy to get hold of templates, even non-official ones that are very close to the real thing. Combine that with technological advancement and the dramatic price reduction of technological hardware once it has been in the market for a while and refined and I honestly see it as a losing battle for GW if they decide to go down the route of sue sue sue.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Much like what clively says ^, they can benefit greatly from it if they instead embrace it and join in by selling the templates themselves.
Poly Ranger wrote: That's amazing! I estimated over a decade... but if you can do that now with what you claim is little experiance and a low quality printer...
You'r not pulling my leg are you? You did really make these on a 3D printer right?
Not pulling your leg. The printer I used for these models cost about $2000. Material is next to nothing. I think the Thunderfire is abut $1.50 in plastic. As for my modeling skills I have worked as an Architect for 16 years so I do have CAD experience, but the skills I used to make these models could be learned in a week or less of study. The CAD models probably have 20 hours or so of work in them. Up close you can really tel a difference but on the table they look fine.
It will happen, and I personally believe it will happen quicker than most seem to think. 20 years? You're kidding yourself if you think it will take that long. A few years is my guess. 5 at the most and I think that's being pessimistic.
The question really is whether GW will attempt to do something to take advantage of the situation, or stick their fingers in their ears humming a tune and praying it never happens. Given how long it has taken them to catch up in the online era, I rather suspect the latter.
But I don't think 3D printing will kill all model companies (or any other manufacturers of goods susceptible to reproduction). People thought that about the music industry, and iTunes is now flourishing, along with a bunch of other paid services that have cropped up recently.
There will be piracy of course. That's a reality of the world as it currently exists. Savvy companies will find ways to continue operations.
Will it kill GW? I doubt it. It might have an impact, perhaps even a significant one. Plenty of people still buy CDs at a brick & mortar store though, and so will people continue to buy GW kits. I personally think they will be way behind the curve and it will hurt them more than it really needs to, but they'll survive.
lord_blackfang wrote: It's not a matter of quality. Even garage hobby companies tend to 3D print their master models nowadays and then recast them in resin or metal.
But printers of this quality will never be common household items, they simply aren't useful enough for the majority of people. Who needs them? Artists, hobbyists, designers, architects. Not enough to make them affordable on the level of everyday tech like gaming consoles or dishwashers.
This sounds like what I hear right before every other tech step forward. 2d printers used to print good awful slow and people saw industrial printers that could make copies and print 20 pages a minute and said "the average consumer will never need those features. "
Now most people won't buy a printer that couldn't do those things
Poly Ranger wrote: That didn't work for the music industry or the movie industry though. .
That's because the music and movie industries are dominated by groups who stubbornly resisted moving to new technology because they couldn't see any way to make money from it, rather than embracing it and accepting that some people will still pirate anyway but the majority will buy if a legit option is available and the prices are right.
It's worth pointing out that when desktop PC printers were first released, people predicted that they would spell the doom of the printing industry. And yet printed books have only just (comparitively) started to decline due to the growth of (not all illegally obtained) eBooks rather than because of everyone printing off the Lord of the Rings on their PC, and there are still plenty of companies out there offering specialised printing services... because no matter how much home-PC-ready technology advances, commercial machines are still better.
3D printing will be the same for quite some time. Yes, desktop units are coming down in price, and are getting better. Commercial machines will still be far superior. And by the time the gap has closed enough to not matter, smart companies will have figured out ways to profit from the new technology.
Agent_Tremolo wrote: Yep, 3D printers have a bright future ahead. Internet piracy? Not so much.
Our generation has enjoyed a high degree of online freedom, but we're moving into an internet environment where controls are becoming tighter, and technical barriers are erected to limit what we can and can't do with our devices. Actually, a future dominated by the Itunes App Store strikes me as more likely than the post-capitalist free for all envisioned by the maker culture.
3D printing won't find the lawless environment p2p networks and CD copiers found in the 90-00s. By the time it becomes popular and affordable, industries affected by this technology would have plenty of time and resources to adapt.
Dont forget that while you are right that the internet is getting more and more sanctioned there are people already having solutions against that. Look at the well known torrent search site which is switching to hosting its website only via p2p among its users. This way they simply avoid the world wide web through clustering. Its not like the last word on internet freedom is already spoken.
This guy thinks that printing has taken off, I tend to agree with him. Even NASA are developing a 3d printer for the ISS to print out spare parts when they're needed so you don't need to keep all spares in stock.
They way I see it going is that gamers will take their apocalypse sized models, superheavies and formations and 3d print them. Why spend that much money on one or two forgeworld models when you can buy the printer and then print as many as you like!
If GW went back to metal moulding [and ditch the bad job that is failcast] then they'll make the best quality miniatures again, but 3d printing will take over for large vehicles and superheavies.
I've even talked with a few friends, if 10 of us split the cost then it's very very affordable. Sure we couldn't use the models that we used in official tournaments or in the store, but we don't play there anyway. I'd still want to see the potential irl before I'd invest in it.
Last time I heard GW discuss this subject they replied with (Paraphrasing) "If we thought 3D printing was the future, we would be investing in it." Which concerns me greatly. I'm concerned that the massive rush of content we have seen as of late is out of desperation to sell as much product as possible before the mini bubble explodes. Sure the quality right now is inferior. In 5-10 years time however, I'd wager you won't be able to tell this difference from what we are using now & something 3d printed.
A very scary thought for those of us who have thousands of dollars invested in the hobby.
It's worth pointing out that when desktop PC printers were first released, people predicted that they would spell the doom of the printing industry. And yet printed books have only just (comparitively) started to decline due to the growth of (not all illegally obtained) eBooks rather than because of everyone printing off the Lord of the Rings on their PC, and there are still plenty of companies out there offering specialised printing services... because no matter how much home-PC-ready technology advances, commercial machines are still better.
This is the important point. People are pointing to home printing, but only in the last few years has it become possible for non printing businesses to produce anything of publishable quality at a reasonable price themselves in house. Until very recently anything you wanted of reasonable quality went to an external printer who had the tools and skill needed to make something you would want the public to see, unless you were a large enough company to justify a specialist printing department. Now we are just starting to see more and more companies produce high quality printed materials in-houes, but it is still not the norm.
For all the shouting about 3D printing I think we will see the same as normal printing. What people print at home will remain the equivalent of the 3 color ink jet to miniature makers offset lithography for a long time.
Poly Ranger wrote: People claimed copied cds would be inferior, whether this is true or not, it made no difference. Now it won't start to have an effect until 3D printers are common place, and even then it will only be a gradual decline. But it will happen, not just in the minitures industry either.
When everybody has a 3D printer, there will be far more people with a large amount of experiance and skill with them. That alone will bring prices for templates down, some people will even do it for fun, like they do with program and mmorpeg design (I have a friend who created a parallel tibia so we could go hunting via LAN without spawning grounds being overcrowded for example.).
Automatically Appended Next Post: And he did that 8 years ago!!!
There is a huge gulf of difference between burning a CD and printing a physical object, that you are comparing the two implies to me that you don't really have any idea what you're talking about. Beyond that, yes, burned (audio/video) CD's are generally inferior unless its done via a lossless format. Granted, its not terribly difficult to do that, but you'd be surprised by the number of people out there who have no idea what they're doing. And no, having 3D printers does not mean everyone will have experience and skill with them. Chances are people will be paying other people for limited download rights off a website or something like that. Do you know how to 3D model or use CAD software? It's not something you really just 'learn'. I've been doing this stuff for over a decade now and I'm still learning and getting better at it. And I've seen those homebrewed mmorpg's/computer games... hate to break it to you, but they're generally gakky quality.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
lord_blackfang wrote: We have this thread every week. No. Not now, not until we have actual replicators and post-scarcity socialism and stuff.
Sorry I hadn't seen this thread the entire time i've been on dakka. I must have been very unobservant.
Among other things
Of this quality? No. Give it a couple years, 3D printed materials will be indistinguishable from something professionally cast.
And still prohibitively expensive and inefficient for anything other than a one-off or master model.
It might be a while before we see people with 3d printers in their homes, but I can certainly see where it's possible to make models today for costs on par withbuying them new from GW.
I just wanted to make clear the issue with this statement. "Buying them new from GW" aside from the fact that I don't know anyone that pays retail prices for GW (hell, I buy my stuff from China at 60% off retail value), the problem is that it's only really worth doing against GW's ridiculously high pricing, Warhammer 40K isn't the entire miniatures industry, not even by a longshot, there are far more non-40k gamers than there are 40k gamers out there, and a lot of those other games don't make it practical for 3D printing to be a real threat to them.
GW, just like most producers of small easily manufactured items, need to take notice and get in front of the coming changes.
No, they really don't.
GW needs to make files compatible with certain 3D printers then licenses users to print their own armies. Perhaps you spend $50 for a space marine template or $10 for a special character. This would be nearly 100% profit to GW as they wouldn't have to produce, package and ship those models. Meanwhile regular consumers would gladly pay to print their own.
NO!!! NONONONONONONONO!!! A MILLION TIMES NO! Are you kidding me? You think people would pay $50 for a file, most likely DRM'd to be a one-time use only thing, to then have to pay another $10-$15 in materials costs to print what is currently a $40 (retail, can be purchased for much less elsewhere) squad of tactical marines??? ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?? And thats assuming you HAVE your own printer, if you're utilizing a service, forgetaboutit, its another $50. Beyond that, its not 100% profit to GW. Truly skilled 3d artists command a pretty high salary in the video game and film industries. GW's designers are good, but they're still pretty much in the realm of amateur (which is why they still utilize a hybrid process between 3D and hand sculpting). For GW to go to an all digital model, they would basically just be shifting the production costs to the sculpting end. On top of that, due to the nature of 3D printing being decentralized and thus impossible to enforce quality control, GW would never go this direction, because too many people would go the 'el cheapo' route and show up with gakky miniatures. GW relies on (theoretically) high quality miniatures attracting people to their product, gakky 3d prints aren't going to do that.
The monks were ultimately put out of business by the printing press; if they had gone ahead and become typesetters then they could have kept with it for a few hundred more years... Old habits die hard though .
Apples to Oranges. Monks wrote books one at a time by hand. GW currently produces a good chunk of its minis using a mixed workflow process of 3d design and hand sculpting, and then industrially manufactures miniatures at a rate that no 3D printer will be capable of producing in the near future. If anything, by saying GW should go to 3D printing, you're saying that the typesetters should become monks.
Regarding quality. The pace of innovation in today's world is simply astounding. I can walk into about 3 local stores that sell 3D printers; meanwhile the number of 3D printing related kickstarters is just insane. You can bet that the quality level is going to go up in a very short amount of time and that prices will drop like a rock. I wouldn't estimate 10 years. Instead it's probably closer to 2; 3 at the most.
Sadly, most of those kickstarters really haven't delivered what they promised, and the printers you can buy in local stores are nowhere near what you need to print a 28mm miniature to a level that can compete with a traditional cast model. And I'd say 2-3 years is a hopelessly optimistic estimate from someone who doesn't have any familiarity with the industry.
This is the first time I have seen evidence of such good quality printing avaliable to the general public though.
Then you've been under a rock, that's hardly 'good quality' in fact its pretty much crap, especially considering the things that companies like Dreamforge games were producing almost a decade ago.
Lastly, If you think 3D printing not a big deal... remember this thread in 20 years time...
Yea... about 10 years ago someone told me 'a decade from now 3D printing will have changed the world' after I told him it wouldn't. Well looky here, 10 years later and I'm still right.
Question is, how long does it take to print something in 3D?
I thought a simple gun bits could take an hour or two to do.
It depends on size, shape, structure, etc. For something like a marine you're looking at a couple hours, for a squad considerably more.
10 years ago it would have taken me an hour with the processor of a huge desktop computer plugged into the internet to download a 118page pdf document. 3 weeks ago it took me a few seconds on a wireless device that is primarily designed for communication and also fits snuggly into my hand, whilst at half signal, to download the 118page cypher data slate.
Then you had a really poor internet connection a decade ago, considering that a 118 page pdf document is only a couple megabytes.
Not pulling your leg. The printer I used for these models cost about $2000. Material is next to nothing. I think the Thunderfire is abut $1.50 in plastic. As for my modeling skills I have worked as an Architect for 16 years so I do have CAD experience, but the skills I used to make these models could be learned in a week or less of study. The CAD models probably have 20 hours or so of work in them. Up close you can really tel a difference but on the table they look fine.
Don't be misleading, the things you printed are very simple geometrically speaking. Personally, I don't think there is much of a market for printed box shapes... then again GW's been selling people Rhinos for 2 decades now, so what do I know?
^^^ so which of the razorbacks weapons are fake? i cant tell and its bugging me
It's the one on the right, it (should be) really obvious, you can clearly see the printer marks on it, especially the bezeled/angled piece.
Now most people won't buy a printer that couldn't do those things
Y'know, I really gotta wonder what you are all going on about in regards to 2D printers. I only ever use one at work, and prior to that I used one at school. I personally have yet to find the need for a printer in my personal life which would warrant me going out and spending $150 on something that I would guess most people already have access to (via work/school)
3d printing is good for little stuff, but you really see the lack of detail in big stuff.
Wrong, other way around. Good for big stuff, cannot print little stuff. The 'lack of detail' you refer to is a result of people not putting the details in when they design a part.
They way I see it going is that gamers will take their apocalypse sized models, superheavies and formations and 3d print them. Why spend that much money on one or two forgeworld models when you can buy the printer and then print as many as you like!
If GW went back to metal moulding [and ditch the bad job that is failcast] then they'll make the best quality miniatures again, but 3d printing will take over for large vehicles and superheavies.
Well, a few problems... first is that printers have size limits, very few of the commercially available printers are capable of printing something the size of a baneblade in one go, and if they can, its probably not to a sufficient level of detail, and if it is, you can bet that you're still looking at a 5-6 figure price tag. Yes, the price will go down eventually, but it's still going to cost more (barring price hikes) to print a baneblade than it will to just buy one.The second is, where exactly do you propose to get a file to print a large vehicle? Are you able to model them yourself? Are you able to engineer them correctly for print, ensuring they are watertight, hollowed out properly, have a thick enough wall thickness to not fall apart, etc?
In 5-10 years time however, I'd wager you won't be able to tell this difference from what we are using now & something 3d printed.
Thats already the case today. The only telltale sign would be the material. The problem is that the printers that can do this (today) cost $100,000.00 or more, and take hours if not days to print something at a decent enough quality, and often times you still have to do some post-print cleanup (sand down striation lines, etc.), and the material costs for these printers are much higher than something like makerbot.
For all the shouting about 3D printing I think we will see the same as normal printing. What people print at home will remain the equivalent of the 3 color ink jet to miniature makers offset lithography for a long time.
Thank you for being the (seemingly) lone voice of reason.
Not pulling your leg. The printer I used for these models cost about $2000. Material is next to nothing. I think the Thunderfire is abut $1.50 in plastic. As for my modeling skills I have worked as an Architect for 16 years so I do have CAD experience, but the skills I used to make these models could be learned in a week or less of study. The CAD models probably have 20 hours or so of work in them. Up close you can really tel a difference but on the table they look fine.
Don't be misleading, the things you printed are very simple geometrically speaking. Personally, I don't think there is much of a market for printed box shapes... then again GW's been selling people Rhinos for 2 decades now, so what do I know?
^^^ so which of the razorbacks weapons are fake? i cant tell and its bugging me
It's the one on the right, it (should be) really obvious, you can clearly see the printer marks on it, especially the bezeled/angled piece.
As for me being misleading, I am not being misleading at all. I posted some 3d models I created and printed. I stated which 3d printer I used and how much experience I have with CAD. I am also a teacher so i think my estimate of the amount of learning you would need to do to create what I did is about right. The pictures show the items next to "official" models I have painted so you can see exactly what is possible. Nothing mis-leadinjg about the post at all. You might take issue with the fact the models I created are "simple geometrically" but I never said they were anything other than that. Just example of what I have done.
You are actually wrong about which of the Razorback tops is 3d printed. It is the one on the left (the lascannon). So I guess the 3d printer is good enough to fool you. Or perhaps that is your way of telling me my painting is so bad it looks like a 3d printer?
I think many of your responses to things in this thread are a bit condesending and rude. They also show a lack of understanding on some of the issues related to 3d printing. You should be more aware of how you respond and treat people. I don't think anyone is here to pick a fight.
This sounds like what I hear right before every other tech step forward. 2d printers used to print good awful slow and people saw industrial printers that could make copies and print 20 pages a minute and said "the average consumer will never need those features. "
Now most people won't buy a printer that couldn't do those things
Those features aren't comparable. Paper printers of a level that would compare to what we expect from 3D printers are not what I'd call affordable for home use even today.
Dakka informed me that the automotive horseless carriage was just a passing fancy of the landed gentry. Never would they have the means to afford such a complex machine nor need to travel since the market is within walking distance. So I invested in over 1000 shares of the Brixton Horse and Buggy company for the incredible price of $8.50. Now I am ruined
Seriously though, if you honestly think something is ever too complex or expensive for the average person just think back a decade ago. I remember laughing at PDAs because they were so needlessly complex compared to a simple schedule book. Now every highschooler has an iPhone. Go back further and nobody honestly thought cars would have caught on. Home computers were thought to be an excess that nobody would have practical use for. The iPod was originally a joke to lots of people because it "had more space than realistically usable" and costed way more than a standard CD player, and look where Apple is now.
Don't make assumptions as to what the market will want/need because you will be regularly proven wrong.
ChaosOxomega:
The gulf between 3D printing and burning a CD might be huge, so was the gulf between creating a mixed tape (cassette) and burning a cd. Technology moves on. Oh and I used it as an analogy. Don't get stuck in the past.
Now you're right, about one thing, I may have read up extensively on 3D printers, but I have never seen one in 'the flesh' or used one (unless you count the machine which cut our boxes in Design Tech at school a decade ago) and the last time I used CAD was in Systems and Control 10 years ago. So I am inexperienced with them (but that doesn't nessessarily mean I totally don't know what I am talking about). I brought it up on Dakka to get feedback from people who had more experiance, so thank you for your response despite it being highly rude.
Oh and 10 years ago my village was one of the last areas in Britain to get broadband so we were on modem, so yes my internet was increadibly slow.
Do not misjudge the pace of technological advancement because it gets exponentially quicker year upon year.
Dakka informed me that the automotive horseless carriage was just a passing fancy of the landed gentry. Never would they have the means to afford such a complex machine nor need to travel since the market is within walking distance. So I invested in over 1000 shares of the Brixton Horse and Buggy company for the incredible price of $8.50. Now I am ruined
Seriously though, if you honestly think something is ever too complex or expensive for the average person just think back a decade ago. I remember laughing at PDAs because they were so needlessly complex compared to a simple schedule book. Now every highschooler has an iPhone. Go back further and nobody honestly thought cars would have caught on. Home computers were thought to be an excess that nobody would have practical use for. The iPod was originally a joke to lots of people because it "had more space than realistically usable" and costed way more than a standard CD player, and look where Apple is now.
Don't make assumptions as to what the market will want/need because you will be regularly proven wrong.
You seem to be misunderstanding a key point though 3D printers are not the same thing as 3D modeling software. While the printer may become progressively more usable, the software isn't being developed along the same lines, and 'professional' level software (besides being really expensive) isn't really getting any simpler to use. Yes, there is google sketchup and similar low-end stuff which will be useful for odds n ends, but as of yet I haven't seen anyone make something in sketchup that really impresses me or would really even come close to comparing to something like a GW miniature.
Do not misjudge the pace of technological advancement because it gets exponentially quicker year upon year.
Ehhh... not really, its actually fairly linear in the grand scheme of things, thats a different conversation though.
You can begin by looking at actual measures, like the number of patents issued every year, etc. rather than things like computing power (which is increasing exponentially, unfortunately it seems that despite doubling our available processor power something like every 18 months, its still mostly just being used for porn).
1. The quality of results with 3D printing (the hi-end "not yet available to the public kind) are pretty much there
2. Most (not all but MOST) of the people claiming this will put GW out of business (or at least severely hurt them) don't understand 3D printing OR business
3. There is still no cheaper easier way to create minis than recasting them. None. And yet that hasn't even put a dent in GW (or even lesser mini companies)
4. It will be a LONG LONG time before an in-home 3D printer gets to the point that the average person can use them reliably and easily enough to make them worth while (they will need to be "microwave-simple" AND "microwave-cheap" before they catch on wide-spread enough to worry anyone)
5. There are so many ways GW can and will monetize this that it's not going to be an issue
6. GW is already using some very advanced manufacturing and engineering processes. Adaptation in this area (despite what the internet would have you believe) will not be an issue for them
I do believe 3d printers will become a common household item in the next 10 years. I do think that as far as printing models for us hobbyists, it will mostly be special weapons and wargear we print off as opposed to entire units.
With the obvious exception of Titans. Going to be so many home made versions of those with custom rules it will be crazy. GW needs to make a rule system for making your own superheavies.
Just because you have a 3D printer doesnt mean you can make a tact squad...you need the files, which you either make yourself in autocad or solid works or whatever, which would take hours and hours and certainly not everyone is capable of doing, or
illegally obtain the files, which i dont believe are floating around anywhere, so you'd have to steal them from some GW factory, which is very, very illegal.
The 3D printer poses no threat to miniature companies unless their models 3D image files are available for torrenting online.
1. The quality of results with 3D printing (the hi-end "not yet available to the public kind) are pretty much there
2. Most (not all but MOST) of the people claiming this will put GW out of business (or at least severely hurt them) don't understand 3D printing OR business
3. There is still no cheaper easier way to create minis than recasting them. None. And yet that hasn't even put a dent in GW (or even lesser mini companies)
4. It will be a LONG LONG time before an in-home 3D printer gets to the point that the average person can use them reliably and easily enough to make them worth while (they will need to be "microwave-simple" AND "microwave-cheap" before they catch on wide-spread enough to worry anyone)
5. There are so many ways GW can and will monetize this that it's not going to be an issue
6. GW is already using some very advanced manufacturing and engineering processes. Adaptation in this area (despite what the internet would have you believe) will not be an issue for them
This. Exalted, I wish I could exalt again and again and again.
With the obvious exception of Titans. Going to be so many home made versions of those with custom rules it will be crazy. GW needs to make a rule system for making your own superheavies.
Given the time, cost, and process involved with that, I really don't think thats going to be the case.
BTW, you guys are aware that 3D printing isn't a monolithic technology, right? There are actually about a half dozen (maybe more?) subtypes of 3D printers, with different properties etc. Most of the focus is on fused deposition modeling (FDM) type printers, and most of the focus on them is being used to make them faster and cheaper for use in manufacturing things that don't require anywhere near the 'resolution' or detail of a miniature. In other words, what I'm trying to say to you, is that the focus of the industry, at least for the time being, isn't on miniature hobbyists or even anything remotely comparable. Miniature hobbyists are not, for the time being, the future of the 3D printing industry, and very little is being done right now which is going to make 3D printing anywhere near viable for what you are talking about.
SLA (stereolythography) and DLP (digital light processing printers) are the technologies that you want for a 3D printer. They AREN'T the focus of the industry right now, because they are more expensive, more dangerous (the material they use is highly toxic until cured), slower, and are used only in specialist applications (like high resolution finely detailed models). While there have been some advances made for these type printers (Form 1 amongst others), they aren't the focus and not what anyone is really expecting to end up in everyones living room for the time being.
In other words, while 3D printing might become commonplace in 5+ years, it won't be in a form that miniature hobbyists will really be able to utilize to maximum effect (unless you like playing with crappy models that lack definition and detail), since the SLA/DLP type are only really being developed for 'enthusiasts' and industry (who can find use for sub-25 micron resolutions) whereas FDM is being developed for mass market (who don't have need for printing things smaller than 50-100 micron resolution). A 'cheap' SLA type printer right now costs about $2,000, and hits 25 microns in a very limited space, there is a slightly more advanced one available for about $5,000 that can (supposedly) get down to .1 micron (which is phenomenal), but again, none of the 'big names' are really pursuing that avenue, and the materials (aside from being highly toxic) are still something like $200/ounce or something ridiculous like that (and not going down) and they literally take forever to print anything.
changerofways wrote: ...unless their models 3D image files are available for torrenting online.
There are some out there. This was modeled by someone who took measurements off the original model. I have printed it and it came out fairly decent. I am currently working on turning it into a looted wagon. I will post pics when done.
changerofways wrote: ...unless their models 3D image files are available for torrenting online.
There are some out there. This was modeled by someone who took measurements off the original model. I have printed it and it came out fairly decent. I am currently working on turning it into a looted wagon. I will post pics when done.
Please share once its completed. I am very excited to see the results!
changerofways wrote: ...unless their models 3D image files are available for torrenting online.
There are some out there. This was modeled by someone who took measurements off the original model. I have printed it and it came out fairly decent. I am currently working on turning it into a looted wagon. I will post pics when done.
Do you have a pic of the print? In any case, while there are a handfull of models available online (leman russ, dreadnought, rhino iirc), its not enough to build an army from, and they arent exact copies of the original, that Russ for example is missing all the rivets and tiny little fiddly bits found on the actual leman russ (although in some respects I do think it actually looks better).
You seem to be misunderstanding a key point though 3D printers are not the same thing as 3D modeling software. While the printer may become progressively more usable, the software isn't being developed along the same lines, and 'professional' level software (besides being really expensive) isn't really getting any simpler to use. Yes, there is google sketchup and similar low-end stuff which will be useful for odds n ends, but as of yet I haven't seen anyone make something in sketchup that really impresses me or would really even come close to comparing to something like a GW miniature.
You are so stuck in the "now" it is funny. 3D modelling software continually improves, and gets continually easier for users to create with. It is inevitable that 3D design software will become a near-standard hobbyist's tool, unless 3D printers are replaced with some greater technology before then.
Imagine an application like DAZ Studio combined with a 3D printer. With user-created content, the basic enduser could benefit from the work of others by using pre-created modules to assemble the 3D model of a desired figure. This would include all the detailed bits, modeled wargear, pose, armor pattern, everything.
He then hits "print" and it's done. He can, should he desire, create an entire army of these soldiers (or vehicles or weapons or whatever), or he can save the file format and use it as simply one pose of soldiers, and then assemble others with the bits and pieces of these modular design models that he's acquired.
While there's an initial investment in the software and the printer, after that point? He's got SM (or IG, Eldar, whatever) armies for ever. He just needs to provide the raw materials for the printer. He can even mix-and-match, adding Eldar helmets to Space Marine bodies, boltguns to IG soldiers, all kinds of things.
... and after the initial investment? That's it. It's now just the cost of supplies.
Actual model is on the workbench at home right now being converted into a looted wagon. I will post a pic later this evening. Yes there are plenty of details left off, BUT it is a reasonable alternative. Not so far out there that everyone would be off put by it. It is actually pretty close and the differences might not be discernable from 3 feet away. Whatever floats your boat. I have access to a printer, so I only pay for the consumables. I am going to give it a go for lots of stuff. It is for sure the cutting edge, but I think to dismiss outright is a mistake.
You seem to be misunderstanding a key point though 3D printers are not the same thing as 3D modeling software. While the printer may become progressively more usable, the software isn't being developed along the same lines, and 'professional' level software (besides being really expensive) isn't really getting any simpler to use. Yes, there is google sketchup and similar low-end stuff which will be useful for odds n ends, but as of yet I haven't seen anyone make something in sketchup that really impresses me or would really even come close to comparing to something like a GW miniature.
You are so stuck in the "now" it is funny. 3D modelling software continually improves, and gets continually easier for users to create with. It is inevitable that 3D design software will become a near-standard hobbyist's tool, unless 3D printers are replaced with some greater technology before then.
Imagine an application like DAZ Studio combined with a 3D printer. With user-created content, the basic enduser could benefit from the work of others by using pre-created modules to assemble the 3D model of a desired figure. This would include all the detailed bits, modeled wargear, pose, armor pattern, everything.
He then hits "print" and it's done. He can, should he desire, create an entire army of these soldiers (or vehicles or weapons or whatever), or he can save the file format and use it as simply one pose of soldiers, and then assemble others with the bits and pieces of these modular design models that he's acquired.
While there's an initial investment in the software and the printer, after that point? He's got SM (or IG, Eldar, whatever) armies for ever. He just needs to provide the raw materials for the printer. He can even mix-and-match, adding Eldar helmets to Space Marine bodies, boltguns to IG soldiers, all kinds of things.
... and after the initial investment? That's it. It's now just the cost of supplies.
You call it 'stuck in the now', I call it having actual experience with the technology and the industry for over a decade, having first hand experience with the advances in said industry over that period of time, and knowing what the focus in that industry is currently on. What you describe is not where the technology is headed, sorry. I have been waiting for something like what you described for the better part of that timeframe, and it has yet to materialize. Rigging a model for pose (and then being able to repose it without issue in regards to the clothing and equipment associated with it) is still one of the most difficult things you can do with a 3D model, and still commands big $$$ in the film and video game industry if you know how to do it at all well.
BTW, while it is possible to print models produced in DAZ studio, it is by no means easy, nor is it supported natively. It actually requires a lot of cross-flow involving other (more expensive) software for said model to be ready for print, let alone be ready for a repose without repeating the process again.
You are so stuck in the "now" it is funny. 3D modelling software continually improves, and gets continually easier for users to create with. It is inevitable that 3D design software will become a near-standard hobbyist's tool, unless 3D printers are replaced with some greater technology before then.
In fact, it does NOT. I use it every day. Both CAD style DCC programs as well as Entertainment design programs. The software is actually getting MORE complex and MORE convoluted every year. There are minor exceptions to this as things like C4D isn't TOO bad but then it's also not quite what you would need for 3D printing either. An evolution needs to happen before the software gets to the point you're mentioning. It IS possible for it to get there, but it will take a while which is why I said earlier that it will take longer than people think for these to enter wide-spread home use.
Imagine an application like DAZ Studio combined with a 3D printer. With user-created content, the basic enduser could benefit from the work of others by using pre-created modules to assemble the 3D model of a desired figure. This would include all the detailed bits, modeled wargear, pose, armor pattern, everything.
I can certainly understand the point you're driving at but here's my standard DAZ Studio response as it illustrates a lot of the current issues (which are significant):
"That's really not a solution. You're going to hit several hundred dollars by the time you're done kitting out ONE model. On top of that, the DAZ products aren't even good for their intended purpose (simple, home made animations done by beginners/hobbyists). It might *look* like a reasonable solution if you don't have a lot of experience with this sort of thing, but you're going to get very frustrated very quickly when you get errors like "model not water tight", "incorrect edge thickness", "improperly terminating edge loops" or my personal favorite "vertex normals inverted. Terminating program" right before the the model implodes on itself and your software crashes."
He then hits "print" and it's done. He can, should he desire, create an entire army of these soldiers (or vehicles or weapons or whatever), or he can save the file format and use it as simply one pose of soldiers, and then assemble others with the bits and pieces of these modular design models that he's acquired.
I think one thing you're going to see (because we are WAY MORE THAN 10 years away from machines that produce models that need no clean up) is a lot of really crappy looking models if/when 3D printing becomes that wide spread. I don't think a lot of people are going to bother with the clean up and given how many people will currently refuse to play anyone using unpainted models, I can just imagine the response to stair-stepped/parting line models (and yeah, I know "parting line" is a mold making term, but FDM machines apply material in layers and this tends to leave a similar kind of imperfection at times).
While there's an initial investment in the software and the printer, after that point? He's got SM (or IG, Eldar, whatever) armies for ever. He just needs to provide the raw materials for the printer. He can even mix-and-match, adding Eldar helmets to Space Marine bodies, boltguns to IG soldiers, all kinds of things.
After software/printer? The cost varies but is still WAY more than some elmers glue, resin, a bucket and the mold compound of your choice. Again, there is no cheaper, faster, easier way than to produce minis than this and it has barely been a dent in GW's bottom line. A more expensive, more difficult to use, less accessible method that GW themselves will be able to monetize/utilize MUCH better than the average hobbyist is not likely to hurt them either.
This is all not to mention what the I.P., copyright and patent police will do to 3D printing if/when it becomes that widely available. I can see things like security locks being placed on them so that you have to check your models in with a "I.P. protection service" before they will print or even simply being locked into only being able to use source material that you need to purchase from a pre-approved website etc.
You are so stuck in the "now" it is funny. 3D modelling software continually improves, and gets continually easier for users to create with. It is inevitable that 3D design software will become a near-standard hobbyist's tool, unless 3D printers are replaced with some greater technology before then.
The software is actually getting MORE complex and MORE convoluted every year.
Oh thank god, sometimes I worried that it was just me that thought so lol
Oh thank god, sometimes I worried that it was just me that thought so lol
lol nope. There's a reason places like Dreamworks and Pixar have a surprisingly high TD to artist ratio. Not to mention on the engineering/product design side places tend to have to have at least one "Tech Lead" per department (I recently heard #'s as high as one tech lead for every five people) just to keep these "simple" 3D programs up and running correctly.
If 3D printing is going to be all the rage, why is GW still designing moulds? Wouldn't it be cheaper to be using 3D printing to produce their minis?
I asked the question, didn't see it answered if it was. How long does it take to print something? I guess, 3D printing will not be cost effective as moulds, for mass production.
Also, how soon does a 3D printer needs to be replaced? How about wear and tear? I know it doesn't use ink, but since I don't know anything about 3D printers, what does it use? Plastic? Is this cheap? I know when I needed to buy ink, it was just cheaper to buy a new printer.
What are the costs for a 3D printer, besides buying it?
There is a type of resin printer coming out soon that, IIRC, does very, very fine detail, but the materials for it are something like 150 bucks a liter.
BaronIveagh wrote: There is a type of resin printer coming out soon that, IIRC, does very, very fine detail, but the materials for it are something like 150 bucks a liter.
You're referring to UV reactive resin. You can build one for substantially less than an extruded plastic printer, and the quality is way better. It's what the B9 creator uses, among others.
Do you have a pic of the print? In any case, while there are a handfull of models available online (leman russ, dreadnought, rhino iirc), its not enough to build an army from, and they arent exact copies of the original, that Russ for example is missing all the rivets and tiny little fiddly bits found on the actual leman russ (although in some respects I do think it actually looks better).
Here are a couple of shots of this 3d printed L. Russ. I am not using the turret and turning it into a looted wagon. I think it works fine for this purpose.
I will just add as a footnote here I have been approached both in person and from folks online to buy the 3d files and the printed models themselves. So there is SOME kind of demand for 3d printed 40k stuff. I would expect to see this increase over time as printer get better and more 3d models are made available.
BaronIveagh wrote: There is a type of resin printer coming out soon that, IIRC, does very, very fine detail, but the materials for it are something like 150 bucks a liter.
You're referring to UV reactive resin. You can build one for substantially less than an extruded plastic printer, and the quality is way better. It's what the B9 creator uses, among others.
Do you have a pic of the print? In any case, while there are a handfull of models available online (leman russ, dreadnought, rhino iirc), its not enough to build an army from, and they arent exact copies of the original, that Russ for example is missing all the rivets and tiny little fiddly bits found on the actual leman russ (although in some respects I do think it actually looks better).
Here are a couple of shots of this 3d printed L. Russ. I am not using the turret and turning it into a looted wagon. I think it works fine for this purpose.
I will just add as a footnote here I have been approached both in person and from folks online to buy the 3d files and the printed models themselves. So there is SOME kind of demand for 3d printed 40k stuff. I would expect to see this increase over time as printer get better and more 3d models are made available.
That looks amazing. I would have absolutely no issue with you fielding that. It may be missing some of the fine details, but I highly doubt anyone would notice once its painted. As neat at it is, it also concerns me as I don't know how this could not impact GW profits in the next 5-10 years. As more & more 3d printers because mainstream & improved, the cost will decrease for public use. Meaning this will be a very plausible alternative to spending 1-2k for an army.
Davor wrote: If 3D printing is going to be all the rage, why is GW still designing moulds? Wouldn't it be cheaper to be using 3D printing to produce their minis?
I asked the question, didn't see it answered if it was. How long does it take to print something? I guess, 3D printing will not be cost effective as moulds, for mass production.
It takes like 3 seconds to cast a mould. Printing that Russ probably took 3 hours. That's all that needs to be said.
Davor wrote: If 3D printing is going to be all the rage, why is GW still designing moulds? Wouldn't it be cheaper to be using 3D printing to produce their minis?
I asked the question, didn't see it answered if it was. How long does it take to print something? I guess, 3D printing will not be cost effective as moulds, for mass production.
It takes like 3 seconds to cast a mould. Printing that Russ probably took 3 hours. That's all that needs to be said.
For mass production a molded process is still the fastest and cheapest way to go. There is no way to really scale mass production via 3d printing.
I still think there is an opportunity here to alter or create a new way to market and sell miniatures (or anything for that matter). The 3d printing process can offer infinite customization options. A single "one of" type of object is basically the same cost as a run of thousands. This can fundamentally change the entire delivery chain of many things, not just miniatures. Very custom objects which previously prohibilitivily expensive is all of a sudden accessible to everyone at essentially the same price as mass produced objects. Money does not need to be spent on tooling, transportation, import/export fees, warehousing, distribution, inventory mgmt., shelf space, brick and mortar stores, etc... The economics of selling stuff is fundamentally changed.
This is the kind of thing GW (and other industries) need to begin thinking about as 3d printing/replication technologies advance in the near future. If you don't begin thinking about this now, then you will be caught flat footed because someone else IS thinking about this now and is thinking about a way to disrupt your business using this technology.
Just for the record I think the L. Russ. took about 18 hours to print.
Davor wrote: If 3D printing is going to be all the rage, why is GW still designing moulds? Wouldn't it be cheaper to be using 3D printing to produce their minis?
I asked the question, didn't see it answered if it was. How long does it take to print something? I guess, 3D printing will not be cost effective as moulds, for mass production.
Also, how soon does a 3D printer needs to be replaced? How about wear and tear? I know it doesn't use ink, but since I don't know anything about 3D printers, what does it use? Plastic? Is this cheap? I know when I needed to buy ink, it was just cheaper to buy a new printer.
What are the costs for a 3D printer, besides buying it?
Given that *INDUSTRY* is pursuing advanced metal printing technologies and capabilities, I believe that the future of manufacturing actually lies in 3D printed molds (rather than the current methodology of taking a big chunk of metal and milling it to shape/size). The production time will probably be very similar, but the advantage is that you're not necessarily going to waste significant amounts of money in materials if you have to cut away large chunks of metal.
You're referring to UV reactive resin. You can build one for substantially less than an extruded plastic printer, and the quality is way better. It's what the B9 creator uses, among others.
You had me excited for a second, but it doesn't look like its capable of sub-50 micron levels of detail, which makes it largely useless to us as miniatures hobbyists for anything other than basic polygonal designs.
It takes like 3 seconds to cast a mould. Printing that Russ probably took 3 hours. That's all that needs to be said.
In defense of printing, having experimented with the dark arts of casting and molmaking... that gaks a pain in the ass.
Davor wrote: If 3D printing is going to be all the rage, why is GW still designing moulds? Wouldn't it be cheaper to be using 3D printing to produce their minis?
I asked the question, didn't see it answered if it was. How long does it take to print something? I guess, 3D printing will not be cost effective as moulds, for mass production.
It takes like 3 seconds to cast a mould. Printing that Russ probably took 3 hours. That's all that needs to be said.
That's hardly the last thing that needs to be said. Will a manufacturer that produces hundreds (or thousands..) of models a day switch over to use a 3D printer? No they won't. Why? because no matter how fast they get, shooting hot plastic into a mold and letting it cool is going to be far and away the fastest/cheapest option for mass producing items.
However, the costs of injection molding aren't really coming down and certainly aren't anywhere near the amount of money that a person who might want 30 marines would be interested in dealing with. On the other hand, a home user would be willing to buy a low cost (let's say $500) machine that could produce the items even if it takes 3 hours...
Putting it into perspective, if I can save money printing things on my own even if it takes a WEEK to get a full army printed up then I'm sold. I can't paint them that fast anyway.
Do you have a pic of the print? In any case, while there are a handfull of models available online (leman russ, dreadnought, rhino iirc), its not enough to build an army from, and they arent exact copies of the original, that Russ for example is missing all the rivets and tiny little fiddly bits found on the actual leman russ (although in some respects I do think it actually looks better).
Here are a couple of shots of this 3d printed L. Russ. I am not using the turret and turning it into a looted wagon. I think it works fine for this purpose.
I will just add as a footnote here I have been approached both in person and from folks online to buy the 3d files and the printed models themselves. So there is SOME kind of demand for 3d printed 40k stuff. I would expect to see this increase over time as printer get better and more 3d models are made available.
Actually, zoom in folks. The layers are plainly and easily visible.
3d printing is here, but it is going to be a long time before quality is afforadble. Why do long? Because physical technology does not advance as fast as electronics technology.
This involves chemistry and physical processes ....yes, it will get better, but its still a ways off.
Check out shapeways or other 3d printing services for details on materials and prices and quality.
I am not slamming this guy for making his own stuff....and heck, orky stuff (which is ok to be rough) if fine for it. But want some high quality, and its very very expensive now to do anything large.
Once we get to a point where less than 100 microns is affordable, THEN we will have good quality. But that will be a bit...
You mean once less than 50 microns is affordable (that printer was probably already going at 50-100 microns), you really do want sub-25 microns for our uses (and as I pointed out in a previous post, thats a different technology entirely from what is being pursued for commercial grade consumer use).
This is very wrong as this year's CES proved that with an affordable 3D printer you can make vastly superior sculptures than GW ever made.
LOL at "vastly superior". This is the issue with these discussions. Too much hyperbole, too many voices jumping all over the "hot new thing" without enough knowledge of it, too many people wanting to just burry GW for the sake of it ....
Look, I was there. I saw those models. Not only is that not an "apples to apples" comparison. It's not even an "apples to oranges" comparison. They are in a COMPLETELY different scale than what GW does and they STILL lacked the detail GW can get in MUCH smaller parts. Additionally, those models, while nice, lacked even the quality you would have gotten from a traditionally produced figure of the same scale. Additionally what you don't see is the clean-up needed to get them to "show-room" quality. Call me when someone produces a Coven Throne in the same scale as GW's with the same amount of detail.
EDIT:
I should add that it's very likely you will see someone get there at some point. But to pretend that you're going to get "Coven Throne" levels of complexity/detail in a machine that is available for home use, AFFORDABLE for home use and easy enough for home use that is also not going to be locked down in some way by DRM any time soon is just dreaming.
I think some people really don't understand how fast physical technology can change, especially in a greenfield market where you have a good amount of investor funding available.
Yes, there have been kickstarters to get some things going but those are small shops that put together proof of concept stuff with almost no funds. Now, think about what a company with a good sized warchest ($1m plus) can do. They exist, but you probably haven't heard from them yet as they've been working on the next wave of printers. It won't take 5 years; it probably won't even take another 2 for a reasonably priced, high quality device.
The fact that at least one company has managed to get their product packaged up and is currently selling them in a retail chain (office depot in the US), should tell you a lot. Combine that with the fact that a couple heavy hitters, like HP, have publicly stated that they have been working on 3D printers should also tell you a lot.
This isn't pie in the sky "vaporware"; it's here and only getting better at an incredibly fast rate.
The price point will be in the $350 to $600 range. That's already being established and is certainly within reach of a large number of households.
The real difference between the various offerings is going to come down to ease of use of associated software. While the long term viability of each company will boil down to what they do to protect designer IP.
Expect to hear more manufacturers raise a stink about their IP during 2014 and for groups to come together to create a common standard for it's protection. Also expect to see several companies change hands depending upon what part of the process they've managed to patent.
I think some people really don't understand how fast physical technology can change, especially in a greenfield market where you have a good amount of investor funding available.
Yes, there have been kickstarters to get some things going but those are small shops that put together proof of concept stuff with almost no funds. Now, think about what a company with a good sized warchest ($1m plus) can do. They exist, but you probably haven't heard from them yet as they've been working on the next wave of printers. It won't take 5 years; it probably won't even take another 2 for a reasonably priced, high quality device.
The fact that at least one company has managed to get their product packaged up and is currently selling them in a retail chain (office depot in the US), should tell you a lot. Combine that with the fact that a couple heavy hitters, like HP, have publicly stated that they have been working on 3D printers should also tell you a lot.
People act like this tech just popped up yesterday. It's been around for a number of years. While it's progressed faster than some other physical technologies, it still hasn't progressed as fast as many seem to think it has. I really feel that 2 years is way too optimistic for the kind of printer everyone here is expecting. I've seen the "next level of printers" and yeah, for easy affordable home use? 2 years is WAY too soon imo.
Yes, one company has gotten something to market. That said, LOTS of companies get new technologies to market and die out fairly quickly (along with their tech) soon after. That one company has gotten something to market is an interesting sign. But to pretend it's the herald of a new wave of tech? That's a little naive at this point. It certainly COULD be, but it's WAY too soon to tell for sure.
Also, heavy hitters like HP? Heavy hitters like Toyota have also mentioned working on flying cars. I know that's a bit out there, but my point is that companies will say they're working on just about anything. Rarely, if ever, do the things they say their R&D dept. is working on come to actual fruition. Again, it certainly could be that HP is going to turn out something incredible. But it's also not something you can hold up as a definitive sign.
This isn't pie in the sky "vaporware"; it's here and only getting better at an incredibly fast rate.
There's quite a bit more that has to happen here before the tech gets to the point we're talking about. Quite a bit more.
The price point will be in the $350 to $600 range. That's already being established and is certainly within reach of a large number of households.
Agreed on that. At least as far as the U.S. goes. I don't know what the threshold would be for other countries.
The real difference between the various offerings is going to come down to ease of use of associated software. While the long term viability of each company will boil down to what they do to protect designer IP.
Expect to hear more manufacturers raise a stink about their IP during 2014 and for groups to come together to create a common standard for it's protection. Also expect to see several companies change hands depending upon what part of the process they've managed to patent.
And these are the two things everyone else is missing. IP protection and software. Thus far there's not been enough of a demand for any of the high-end developers to change their paradigms and make the "dumbed down" software that would be needed for the average home user. Trust me, it's going to need to be almost exactly as easy as a microwave for most people before it catches on and making software that easy to use while keeping it powerful enough to accurately drive a 3D printer is going to be harder than making the printers.
In a generation or two the people who have lived their entire lives with smart phones and google won't need things dumbed down nearly so much (I don;t think so anyway), but then you still have the IP issues ...
The quality appears hit or miss (although a few of the examples are quite nice), you are limited to the design options they give you through their UI and unless I'm missing something, they aren't selling the printers. They are selling the service. There are already 3D printers like Shapeways who can do even better levels of detail with whatever models you supply them ...
EDIT:
I should add that when I say the quality is "hit or miss", my standard for comparison is the stuff GW has been putting out in recent years. The quality for everything on that page is going to be more than acceptable for the average gamer imo.
Hence "matter of time". This is not, overnight, going to replace GW... but give it a couple years and a couple small steps forward of technical evolution, and you can (theoretically) have an entirely custom-built army that all you need to do is paint (though they have printers that can do colors for you, too).
Yeah, I don't think anyone is arguing that the quality won't get there. It's the issue of all of the other factors converging, and doing so favorably that is in question. Again, you can actually have a printing service print your army right now. Provided the production manager is asleep at the wheel you can even get away with violating IP (I'm NOT condoning it btw - it's just something that's happening occasionally), AND the price really wouldn't be that bad when compared to buying the same army outright. Yet it's not hurting anyone at all.
Add to that how long it's going to take to get that quality of printer readily, easily, and affordably into a very large number of homes (because unless they make one that prints iCrap this is not going to be an item that the "mainstream" consumers needed to make it popular are going to buy any time soon) is what the trick is going to be. Now add in DRM, IP protection and probable attempts at various types of legal intervention by companies who are making money selling printing services to the same consumers the in-home printers would be targeted for and you're looking at quite a while before the "future" arrives. And when it does there's a much better chance it looks like an over-regulated "pay-for-play" version of Napster than the "everything is free and there are no rules" version everyone wants ...
Say someone (GW or someone else) purpose builds a character posing/customization type of software where a user can custom create their own minitatures. Giving them specific war grear, posing them in specific ways and then on-demand printing those miniatures. I think there is some money to be made on a setup like that.
You could create a community around the character customization by encouraging people to upload and share custom models. Credits to print could be given away for models uploaded and printed by other users. So those not artisticaly inclined or who don't want to learn the software can simply browse the models and then print. People who are interrested in customizing can make their own and upload hoping to get some credits for later or print out right away.
Something like this could be licensed or be done by GW itself to get away from IP issues. Printing done by a service could net higher quality because higher end (better than consumer grade printers we have been talking about) printers could be used.
I think somethign like this could be just about achieved today and I think there is probably some profit in it as well. If not now it will be soon.
Tycho wrote: Yeah, I don't think anyone is arguing that the quality won't get there. It's the issue of all of the other factors converging, and doing so favorably that is in question. Again, you can actually have a printing service print your army right now. Provided the production manager is asleep at the wheel you can even get away with violating IP (I'm NOT condoning it btw - it's just something that's happening occasionally), AND the price really wouldn't be that bad when compared to buying the same army outright. Yet it's not hurting anyone at all.
Add to that how long it's going to take to get that quality of printer readily, easily, and affordably into a very large number of homes (because unless they make one that prints iCrap this is not going to be an item that the "mainstream" consumers needed to make it popular are going to buy any time soon) is what the trick is going to be. Now add in DRM, IP protection and probable attempts at various types of legal intervention by companies who are making money selling printing services to the same consumers the in-home printers would be targeted for and you're looking at quite a while before the "future" arrives. And when it does there's a much better chance it looks like an over-regulated "pay-for-play" version of Napster than the "everything is free and there are no rules" version everyone wants ...
I think that, once a desktop 3D printer comes along that can get the details done "close enough" to FW/GW, there will be someone who creates a program (or series of programs) that allows the mix-and-match idea that I mentioned previously (and that is evidenced in the KS thing I linked).
Sure, we're a few years away from that being a potential reality, but the fact is that this KS indicates that it's possible, and with that proof, well, that's all some people need to see if they can kitbash something together as a proof-of-concept, and from there build it into an actual application.
Shoot, look at the guys who set up the Nexus network for video game mods. They figured out how to build an application to manage all your mods for a broad range of games, that can download, update, install, organize and troubleshoot mods for all manner of PC games. And they do this virtually for free.
I really think the scenario Loborocket put forth is the more likely (by far). What you describe IS certainly possible. I just don't think it's going to happen like that. The issue with your video game example is the part where you say "for free". A lot of people do that type of thing for fun as a hobby and a lot of people also do it as a way to build their portfolios and work experience in order to land games jobs. The point is it costs next to nothing to do simple game mods. Depending on what you use, even the more complex mods don't cost a lot of money. 3D printers are expensive to make. Even when the price for the higher end models comes down, they still won't be free to make. If the people making the printers are getting paid, the people making the software (which will arguably be a more complex task) sure as hell aren't going to volunteer their time ...
Oh these people won't be making the printers, they'll just be making the software that lets Jimmy and Janey Average make use of their own 3D printer in an easy, user-friendly manner.
They'll be the ones building an individual sculpt (like the people who do armor and weapon mods for Skyrim, for example) and letting other people download and use it, while others work on the "nuts and bolts" of the program that lets the end-user take that mod-file and plug it into their 3D Printer and get something kickass out of it... or blend it with other files from other creators to make something semi-unique.
Oh these people won't be making the printers, they'll just be making the software that lets Jimmy and Janey Average make use of their own 3D printer in an easy, user-friendly manner.
They'll be the ones building an individual sculpt (like the people who do armor and weapon mods for Skyrim, for example) and letting other people download and use it, while others work on the "nuts and bolts" of the program that lets the end-user take that mod-file and plug it into their 3D Printer and get something kickass out of it... or blend it with other files from other creators to make something semi-unique.
I get that you were being soft-ware specific there. From the comment above though, I'm a little unclear as to whether you mean these people will be making the software to run the printers, whether you mean they will be content makers (producing just the 3D models) or some combination thereof.
If you are referring to the software that actually runs the machines, no. Just no. That software is going to come bundled with the printers and the people who coded it are getting paid.
If you mean content providers - yeah. Good luck with that. Did you see my comment earlier about how well services like that are currently working? I can't see that situation getting any better ...
Again, comparing it to modding for games just isn't an apples to apples comparison.
If GW knew what 3D printers were they might be worried. I imagine the execs are simply saying "printers? Ha! Nobody will want paper minis! We might be able to make a good profit from the 3D glasses though! Why didn't we think of that!".
Then one day some GW exec, realizing that something seems off here, will get on the internet. That thing that's for the gross nerds that still try to buy their mini's. Then they will get on their HP Pavilion a705w, dial-up their AOL browser, get on ask jeeves, and find out what 3D printing is. Then they'll get worried.
Harriticus wrote: If GW knew what 3D printers were they might be worried. I imagine the execs are simply saying "printers? Ha! Nobody will want paper minis! We might be able to make a good profit from the 3D glasses though! Why didn't we think of that!".
Then one day some GW exec, realizing that something seems off here, will get on the internet. That thing that's for the gross nerds that still try to buy their mini's. Then they will get on their HP Pavilion a705w, dial-up their AOL browser, get on ask jeeves, and find out what 3D printing is. Then they'll get worried.
I know its hip and cool to pick on GW, but come on.
They are a multimillion dollar company, and the major player in miniature wargaming. Saying they don't know exactly what 3D printing is and the threat it could pose to them in the future is just silly.
Harriticus wrote: If GW knew what 3D printers were they might be worried. I imagine the execs are simply saying "printers? Ha! Nobody will want paper minis! We might be able to make a good profit from the 3D glasses though! Why didn't we think of that!".
Then one day some GW exec, realizing that something seems off here, will get on the internet. That thing that's for the gross nerds that still try to buy their mini's. Then they will get on their HP Pavilion a705w, dial-up their AOL browser, get on ask jeeves, and find out what 3D printing is. Then they'll get worried.
Envisotec ( a manufacturer for resin 3D printers) lists GW as a customer.
And as far as I remember The first "live" 3D printed object I ever saw was at the GW studio in the UK, back in 2005 or 2006.
Something to keep in mind would also be, there is a certain section of people that only buys models for painting/ games with friends. I don't see why anyone would waste the extra 20-40 on a GW model when it'll never be scrutinized by some tournament judge. in ~20 years a low end 3d printer+ some commonly circulated basic designs and boom, you've got something I'm about to pay $400 for.
I received an investment brochure in the mail today. It was touting a unique opportunity to invest in Maksim 3D printing and get in on the ground floor before it was too late. It was from a guy named Andy Chambers.
No, not that one. Some other one. Unless he moved to North Carolina and became an options trader.
Poly Ranger wrote: In a decade or so's time, when the majority of homes have a 3D printer, I imagine GW going the way of HMV and Virgin megastores. These stores went into gradual decline due to the public being able to spend 20p on a CD of music you have chosen rather than on a £10/£15 chart CD. So when it costs £30 in ten years time for a tactical squad from GW, or less than £10 on a home 3D printer, then many people (who don't care about copyright law), will surely go the way of homebrew. Now I'm not advocating this illegal practice, but it must be taken into account when considering the future of GW. Nobody thought laser drives on home pcs would have the effect on the music industry that it did, so lets not underestimate the impact 3D printers may have. The templates will be all over the net. (And GW won't be the only ones)
What do you think?
Not at all. For several reasons.
3-D printers do not, nor will they in the foreseeable future, have great detail work. It will likely be decades before they do, and then it will be high end industrial printers that have price tags in the 6 digits that will. Printers for your home will just be making things like containers or very simply plastic parts like cell phone cases.
And even once it is possible to do that sort of thing with a printer, it will still be more economical to use molds. This is because a printer can only make one thing at a time and it takes a while to make that one thing. With a mold you can make a dozen+ things in only a few minutes. Its the only way to mass produce things like this.
3-D printing will not do to miniature companies what DVDs did to VHS tapes. I'm not going to spend a week printing out a tactical squad on my 3-D printer, I'm going to shell out the $30 to GW and use my printer to make a bowl shaped like a penguin.
People predicted that the internet would make newspapers extinct. Yet they're still around and doing fine.
Now, when it becomes affordable for the average person to own (or at least make use of someone else's) one... then they might get worried.
Yeah and at that point its not just GW that needs to worry. The entire industry will likely find itself forced to adopt a new business model to adapt to the change. Even before it happens I expect that to start changing. We'll probably see a shift to a model made up of core rules and models where the models can be made to order in the store itself, which would save massive amounts of money in distribution and warehousing as well as never having product that isn't selling.
Hobby shops will probably pick up on this as soon as someone in the industry realizes it and the technology has made it practical. Not to mention it'll save money when you redesign your models cause you can just modify the current sprue. EDIT: Not sure why people see GW or anyone else as just printing an entire model. They can just print the sprue.
Actually I was referring to the design aspect. A lot of companies use 3d printing in their design process, that's what it was originally developed for.
3-D printers do not, nor will they in the foreseeable future, have great detail work. It will likely be decades before they do, and then it will be high end industrial printers that have price tags in the 6 digits that will. Printers for your home will just be making things like containers or very simply plastic parts like cell phone cases.
And even once it is possible to do that sort of thing with a printer, it will still be more economical to use molds. This is because a printer can only make one thing at a time and it takes a while to make that one thing. With a mold you can make a dozen+ things in only a few minutes. Its the only way to mass produce things like this.
3-D printing will not do to miniature companies what DVDs did to VHS tapes. I'm not going to spend a week printing out a tactical squad on my 3-D printer, I'm going to shell out the $30 to GW and use my printer to make a bowl shaped like a penguin.
People predicted that the internet would make newspapers extinct. Yet they're still around and doing fine.
If we're getting this in 2014, will the next three years look like? This technology, and leveraging it for financial success, is coming. Just the thought of a mini never going "out of print" is amazing. The thought of building the rules for your custom Chapter Master and then actually getting it printed to your selected wargear visually is awesome.
Correct, just go start looking up information about the economics of Star Trek and that should put you on a good rabbit hole of post scarcity discussions.
3-D printers do not, nor will they in the foreseeable future, have great detail work. It will likely be decades before they do, and then it will be high end industrial printers that have price tags in the 6 digits that will. Printers for your home will just be making things like containers or very simply plastic parts like cell phone cases.
And even once it is possible to do that sort of thing with a printer, it will still be more economical to use molds. This is because a printer can only make one thing at a time and it takes a while to make that one thing. With a mold you can make a dozen+ things in only a few minutes. Its the only way to mass produce things like this.
3-D printing will not do to miniature companies what DVDs did to VHS tapes. I'm not going to spend a week printing out a tactical squad on my 3-D printer, I'm going to shell out the $30 to GW and use my printer to make a bowl shaped like a penguin.
People predicted that the internet would make newspapers extinct. Yet they're still around and doing fine.
If we're getting this in 2014, will the next three years look like? This technology, and leveraging it for financial success, is coming. Just the thought of a mini never going "out of print" is amazing. The thought of building the rules for your custom Chapter Master and then actually getting it printed to your selected wargear visually is awesome.
Correct, just go start looking up information about the economics of Star Trek and that should put you on a good rabbit hole of post scarcity discussions.
The Culture makes Star Trek look like cavemen banging rocks together and would be able to not only militarily defeat all of 40k fairly trivially, but then ungrimdark the entire setting without losing a single ship. The story of course, would be in how the Culture would be utterly appalled by the state of 40k and their debate on how to deal with what to them, are a bunch of heinously evil savages.
It's also a society where an orgy is a common form of greeting.
3-D printers do not, nor will they in the foreseeable future, have great detail work. It will likely be decades before they do, and then it will be high end industrial printers that have price tags in the 6 digits that will. Printers for your home will just be making things like containers or very simply plastic parts like cell phone cases.
I'll just leave this here. It was part of a demo of the Form 1 resin printer. It currently costs around $3k.
I'm surprised people are looking at this so negatively for GW. They obviously know the technology is coming and they are probably already planning how they can leverage it.
Do people still hire photographers even though they can buy a nice camera and download a ripped off copy of Photoshop? When they print their photos, do they do it at home? How about nice stationary, cards, or signs?
I think GW would like a world where they can put a 3D printer right in their store. No need to ship models to stores, or stock models that might not sell... no need to print nice glossy boxes - just print generic boxes to hold all the different orders, etc, etc ,etc...
Oh sure, your buddy might have a 3D printer at home you could borrow. But...
What if you want the monster wielding two axes and you can only find a 3D file with the one with a giant mace? What if the pose is really stupid and you want a different one? What if the file doesn't work with brand X of printer and you need to find someone with brand Y? What if your buddy doesn't take care of the printer and there are always bubbles or clumps in the models? What if you can't find the 3D file for the new awesome defibrulator-pattern dreadnought on pirate bay and you just gotta have it? Etc etc etc...
Ah screw all that... just pick the model and customize the pose on the GW website and pick it up in their store tomorrow. You can pick up some paint while you're there.
Don't even bother. You make good points but most of the people posting at this point haven't even read the thread. For example, the Kickstarter referenced by both Baronleagh and Thekbob has already been addressed in pretty good detail in the previous pages and on top of that, most of the people saying things like:
If we're getting this in 2014, will the next three years look like?
and
3-D printers do not, nor will they in the foreseeable future, have great detail work
are clearly arguing from points of fairly profound ignorance (again, for reasons that have already been covered. In detail.).
TL;DR:
No. GW should be on top of it, but not really worried. This tech may be new to some but it is in fact not really "new" at all. It has been around for quite some time and the higher-end "not available" for home use models can produce incredible quality. The tech to get the "detail" down is the absolute least of the concerns and there are a wide array of other factors standing in the way of this becoming something that "puts GW out of business". For anyone wanting deatils on why I say that ... please read the entire thread.
It took (side from the CG modeling) about 10 min. In theory you could produce as many of them as will fit in the tray at once, however. At $150 a bottle, you're looking at about $50 a box of 5 MEQs, assuming you don't have an agreement with them to buy in bulk for a discount.
I also looked at your thoughts on Daz. Daz has shortcomings, don't get me wrong. But with a platinum sub with them, you're looking at the cost of the sub and then maybe $100 if you stick to Victoria 4.2 stuff. Export the entire finished fig as a single wavefront obj, since most 3d progs can read it.
Some Only War character art for my Catachan jungle fighter done in Daz
Do you have a pic of the print? In any case, while there are a handfull of models available online (leman russ, dreadnought, rhino iirc), its not enough to build an army from, and they arent exact copies of the original, that Russ for example is missing all the rivets and tiny little fiddly bits found on the actual leman russ (although in some respects I do think it actually looks better).
Here are a couple of shots of this 3d printed L. Russ. I am not using the turret and turning it into a looted wagon. I think it works fine for this purpose.
I will just add as a footnote here I have been approached both in person and from folks online to buy the 3d files and the printed models themselves. So there is SOME kind of demand for 3d printed 40k stuff. I would expect to see this increase over time as printer get better and more 3d models are made available.
I have pretty much finished up painting the looted wagon. Turned out good enough for me to put on the table.
@Loborocket, I’m fascinated by your works, man. How did you paint those cool looted wagons? I usually spray paint my wargamer models; just so perfect with plastic PLA filament. I would also like to try if acrylic paints can do wonders with my 3d2print’s nylon filament.
Too slow, too expensive, too bad quality without spending a fortune on a printer.
You will spend >3000$ on a printer and then some more on the material to print an army that isn't of as good quality as 40k's plastic kits and needs much, much more sanding to remove imperfections and make larger areas smooth. On one block/bottle/whatever of the material you won't be able to print a big part of an army, and even if you print 3 armies, you still will be at a loss, because regular big 40k armies cost less than 1000$, and material costs add up too the more you want to print. Not to mention time and power consumed by the process.
The 3D printers will be an 'issue' at some point in future, but by the time people can make printing armies cheaper than buying them, they will have a plan developed to work around it.
3-D printers do not, nor will they in the foreseeable future, have great detail work. It will likely be decades before they do, and then it will be high end industrial printers that have price tags in the 6 digits that will. Printers for your home will just be making things like containers or very simply plastic parts like cell phone cases.
And even once it is possible to do that sort of thing with a printer, it will still be more economical to use molds. This is because a printer can only make one thing at a time and it takes a while to make that one thing. With a mold you can make a dozen+ things in only a few minutes. Its the only way to mass produce things like this.
3-D printing will not do to miniature companies what DVDs did to VHS tapes. I'm not going to spend a week printing out a tactical squad on my 3-D printer, I'm going to shell out the $30 to GW and use my printer to make a bowl shaped like a penguin.
People predicted that the internet would make newspapers extinct. Yet they're still around and doing fine.
If we're getting this in 2014, will the next three years look like? This technology, and leveraging it for financial success, is coming. Just the thought of a mini never going "out of print" is amazing. The thought of building the rules for your custom Chapter Master and then actually getting it printed to your selected wargear visually is awesome.
Correct, just go start looking up information about the economics of Star Trek and that should put you on a good rabbit hole of post scarcity discussions.
The Culture makes Star Trek look like cavemen banging rocks together and would be able to not only militarily defeat all of 40k fairly trivially, but then ungrimdark the entire setting without losing a single ship. The story of course, would be in how the Culture would be utterly appalled by the state of 40k and their debate on how to deal with what to them, are a bunch of heinously evil savages.
It's also a society where an orgy is a common form of greeting.
1. The Culture is not a real society.
2. I've only read one Culture book (and hated it on several levels), but the society described in that book was clearly socialist.
Melissia wrote: More than likely, they USE 3d printing in their design process to some extent.
Now, when it becomes affordable for the average person to own (or at least make use of someone else's) one... then they might get worried.
Welll yeah.. you hardly think that they sculpt with greenstuff then pantograph it into a mould? They are going to get the prototypes high-rez 3d printed before hand.
.
Or perhaps that is your way of telling me my painting is so bad it looks like a 3d printer?
