if you could bring back 1 gamethat GW would support which 1 would it be

1. necromunda
2. bloodbowl
3. mordheim
4. epic
5. man o war
6. Warhammer Quest
7. Battle fleet gothic

You mean would like GW to support again? Don't know...I played Epic last week, and have another game lined up for next week. Got a game of 40k 2nd edition on Monday. GW's support or lack of hasn't really made the slightest difference. If they started producing Epic minis again I still couldn't afford them! The rules for all these games are available, somewhere.

If Warhammer Quest was brought back as a board game and re-released then they would make ludicrous money. I'm quite lucky that I'm enough of an old sod to have the game and the Warrior packs but would still love a re-launch. These young un's don't know what they're missing. Amazing game. The app leaves a lot to be desired.

EDIT: Apologies WQ isn't on your list but that would be my first choice.

2nd Place: Necromunda rules are also in bad need of an update. A lot of people I know use the Mordheim rules but never tried it myself. Love all the gang development and behind the scenes stuff, sadly
the games rules have not aged well unfortunately.

3rd Place: Epic, always wanted to get into Epic, even had me an army back in't day. Unfortunately no-one I knew played it so never really got the chance. Mini's all sold now and me a sad bunny.

Battlefleet Gothic.

Mordhheim for me has to come first before Necromunda though I have a feeling that if both were brought back it would be in reverse order.

AndrewChristlieb wrote:
Battlefleet Gothic.

Epic for me.

Why isn't Battlefleet Gothic in the list?

I'd love to see a combination of Battlefleet Gothic and Epic!

Personally I would like BFG at the top of the list: the 2010 FAQ is great but I'd like to see new models perhaps more Demiurg or more ships for DE. Necromunda is second on that list

Bloodbowl would be there but the fact we have the PC version and BB2 coming out soon means it's being supported fine (Just not by GW)

I would say Battlefleet Gothic or Necromunda.

As long as you can get the models, there are rules on the web that are far superior to what GW has put out. The fan-updated rules for Epic Armageddon contain five times the army lists as the base game, and they have all been playtested by the community that put them together.

necromunda for me

I know theres a reason why it's not here anymore but i'd love Dark Future to comeback, mainly because it's so different to everything else they did.

BFG.

I would bring back the vast majority of SG's - they all stand alone on their own merits. The sad thing is, it's not like they would require much support or upkeep really; just an acknowledgement of their existence.

I know they would never do it but it is really frustrating that GW just couldn't be a bit smarter with the situation. They could license some of the SG's out to subsidiary 3rd party games companies and help keep the games alive and growing that way whilst still retaining control over the IP and generating a potentially profitable line of business.

I would love to see Aeronautica Imperialis come back, but handled by GW and properly promoted. I love aircraft and didn't even know AI existed until a year before they discontinued it

Epic/Space Marine/Adeptus Titanicus

I want them all back. In this order...

1. Warhammer Quest
2. Battle fleet gothic
3. necromunda
4. epic
5. man o war
6. mordheim
7. bloodbowl

You forgot Space Hulk, they need to re-release the game (general release - not limited) and expand it (Deathwing/Genestealer/and more)

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I would love to see Aeronautica Imperialis come back, but handled by GW and properly promoted. I love aircraft and didn't even know AI existed until a year before they discontinued it

Seconded. I love AI, and by the time I was getting into it... it died. All I really want is some models though. I can handle the rest myself thank you.

My conspiracy theory is that GW's decision to put flyers into 40K meant that they no longer allowed FW to make aircraft as it would "compete" with 40K. Then, the death of Specialist Games applied to it as well.

Edit: Still play and enjoy Gorkamorka, Necromunda, BFG, and Inquisitor.

BFG.

Mordheim, just loved the atmosphere

I loved the Dark Future, the models were great, I think it was 15mm. Cool cars...

Necromunda was great! So was Mordheim. The models of Necromunda were rather lacking, but if they did it now I think they would be 110% better. Still have my gangs.

Would have to say BFG and Space Hulk. Both excellent games! Plus I'd love to see new models for the Dark Eldar fleet. The current editions just look like a lumpy turd with some raider blades attached.

Mordheim.

To be honest I preferred most of the specialist games to the main games. They were just better.

Bring-Them-Back-Now -Tier.

1. Warmaster. A really, really nice system, very streamlined and quite elegant. The 10mm minis where quite fine. Don't update orchange anything, just bring the minis BACK !

2. Man O War. It was very nice game, and unfortunately, the minis are so hard to find the game's basically dead.

3. Epic. Same things applies. Not to mention the very positive effects it would have on 40k : no more flyers, no more stupid SuperHeavies.

4. Necromunda. The rules would need a good clean-up, and new minis would be nice too.

5. Space Hulk. Of course.

Don't-Need-GW-Anymore-We're-Fine-Thanks-Tier.
Mordheim and BloodBowl.

Don't-Even-Bother-Tier.
Warhammer Quest, Inquisitor, Gorgamorka, Battlefleet Gothic, Aeronautica Imperialis and Dreadfleet.

Litcheur wrote:
Don't-Even-Bother-Tier.
...Gorgamorka...

Litcheur wrote:
Don't-Even-Bother-Tier.
Inquisitor

I both disagree and agree.

Inquisitor gets a lot of undeserved flak, mostly from people who thought it was something other than what it was.

What it wasn't was the kind of competitive play-to-win game that most of GW's audience were used to. What it was was an uncompetitive gaming experience that, while very rough around some of the edges, provided some pretty darn unique opportunities. The number of games that permit players to build a character without the drudgery of levelling up or rote adherence to filling out one's allotted value of XP or GP with skills or equipment is relatively rare, but the games that allow someone to play the part of several characters (and their interactions) is even slimmer.

Inquisitor is very much a wargame for authors and comfortably the best at what it actually tries to do. Not to say it couldn't be better, but it's not a lacking game by any stretch of the imagination.

That said, I don't want the current design attitude of GW anywhere near it.

A relaunch of Mordheim would really be something.

Can I throw in a vote for Inquisitor? It would be great to see some new rules/ models, and the presence of a GM mitigates GW's annoying habit of power creep.

Battlefleet Gothic

 horizon wrote:
Battlefleet Gothic

+9000

Battlefleet Gothic 198%

What about inquisitor? The models for that were sweet and you could be super imaginative with your characters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And necromunda.. I always preferred the aesthetics of necromumda to 40k itself.. The whole gang underworld, bounty hunters, judge dredd type feel.

Surely Dark Heresy is a suitable replacement for Inquisitor?
The models looked nice but being 54mm they don't fit in with the rest of the GW range making it harder to kitbash

 Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:
Surely Dark Heresy is a suitable replacement for Inquisitor?

No. It's a reasonable game, but it is not any kind of replacement for Inquisitor.

To take up my earlier point again, Inquisitor is a game where I can envision a cast of characters and then write them as I want them. Dark Heresy is a system designed for each player to have one character - who tends to need months or even years of levelling up to get to the point where the player envisions them ending up. While I enjoy Dark Heresy, the character creation is a lot more limited.

For an example of what I've been able to do with Inquisitor's options, I wrote Inquisitrix Katlien Vance as something of an internal affairs Inquisitor, hunting down rogue members of the Ordos. But the story is so much more interesting when alongside Interrogator Nyi Laysen - formerly a pupil of an Inquisitor who Katlien executed, but who was herself spared to become Katlien's mentee (being seemingly untainted by her previous master and far too talented as an investigator to simply kill).
This has developed into one of my favourite interactions - while the two manage to get along most of the time, the somewhat rocky past between them makes for some fantastic tensions.

These are themes and possibilities I can't explore with Dark Heresy, at least without having to ask an unreasonable amount of cooperation from another player, but there are no problems doing it with Inquisitor.

I enjoy Dark Heresy, but it offers something really very different and shares only superficial similarities.

 Kelly502 wrote:
I loved the Dark Future, the models were great, I think it was 15mm. Cool cars...
.

It was 20mm to fit with Matchbox cars.

Litcheur wrote:
Bring-Them-Back-Now -Tier.

1. Warmaster. A really, really nice system, very streamlined and quite elegant. The 10mm minis where quite fine. Don't update orchange anything, just bring the minis BACK !

2. Man O War. It was very nice game, and unfortunately, the minis are so hard to find the game's basically dead.

3. Epic. Same things applies. Not to mention the very positive effects it would have on 40k : no more flyers, no more stupid SuperHeavies.

4. Necromunda. The rules would need a good clean-up, and new minis would be nice too.

5. Space Hulk. Of course.

Don't-Need-GW-Anymore-We're-Fine-Thanks-Tier.
Mordheim and BloodBowl.

Don't-Even-Bother-Tier.
Warhammer Quest, Inquisitor, Gorgamorka, Battlefleet Gothic, Aeronautica Imperialis and Dreadfleet.

I would add Aeronautica Imperialis to the Don't Need-GW-Anymore tier as well except for the models side of things. other than that, the community has done a fine job making up rules, missions, scenarios, factions, etc.

Out of curiosity, what criteria did you use to determine the Don't-Even-Bother-Tier?

After playing Mice and Mystics, Last Night on Earth (and derivatives) and other similar games it feels like the market would respond well to a Warhammer Quest/Heroquest style game? Of course, it would need some revamping and updating to bring it up to the standards of the new century.

No one care to mention Dreadfleet?

wufai wrote:
No one care to mention Dreadfleet?

Why? Even being charitable, it is by far one of the weakest games GW have ever produced. Not being charitable; it's utter crap. If you want to scratch the Fantasy sailing itch, play Man O' War. Why GW thought it best to reinvent the wheel, I don't know.

Well, I have or have had all the games that have been listed, and honestly not sure how many would really get any more attention than they already have (and eventually lost) when they were originally released. The only thing I can think of would be Epic, even though Epic 40k and Epic A were bombs, regardless of whether you liked the rules. I have always thought that the emphasis should be titans and gargants, with infantry and vehicles, as opposed to infantry and vehicles, with a single titan. But GW would prob screw up Epic v5 anyway.

If you kept the game as close as to the original as possible, I guess Epic Space Marine/Titan Legions. If was far more successful than any other game mentioned here.

I love Man O War, Warhammer Quest, and the original Necromunda box set. There were a lot of games in those game boxes.

When it comes to specialist games, I would be very happy if GW relaunched Battlefeet Gothic, Necromunda or Space Hulk. Having built up a good collection of each, I would be ecstatic if I could add some of the newer models... especially if they were in plastic.

It is going to be Mordheim 1st,

And a tie between Necromunda and BFG... I miss the Craftworld Eldar, and being able to buy the Redeemer for non insane eBay prices.

Gorkamorka! followed closely by an updated necromunda. We still play most of those games except Epic and man'o'war (both of which I've never played, to my shame), I find the rules for bloodbowl and mordheim do fine but have very fond memories of my digga's running around and failing to be orks!

bfg is awesome
inquisitor is awesome
space hulk is awesome
necromunda is awesome
epic is awesome
mordheim is awesome
i imagine ia, gorka morka, man o war, warhammer quest and war master are also awesome
gw dropping specialist games = not awesome
how hard would it be to have 3 or 4 blokes on the staff keeping these games running and at least providing some competition for the newer games companies that are producing similar sized/priced games? star trek/star wars/infinity etc

Hmm, how about some rule system which could be used for both GorkaMorka and Necromunda? Basically a system in which you could take 40k units, and 'translate' them into stats for those games. Basically a 40k skirmish game.

Necromunda 100% I love the game and would love to see a revamp of the minis.

Hmm, how about some rule system which could be used for both GorkaMorka and Necromunda? Basically a system in which you could take 40k units, and 'translate' them into stats for those games. Basically a 40k skirmish game.

That's basically 2nd edition 40K, if you just build tiny "armies" using the points costs of individual models (for instance, 300pts of 2nd edition Space marines is a single tactical squad). The core ruleset is the same.

Necromunda! As much as i enjoy kit bashing gangs together i would love to have house gangs already made again

 AegisGrimm wrote:

Hmm, how about some rule system which could be used for both GorkaMorka and Necromunda? Basically a system in which you could take 40k units, and 'translate' them into stats for those games. Basically a 40k skirmish game.

That's basically 2nd edition 40K, if you just build tiny "armies" using the points costs of individual models (for instance, 300pts of 2nd edition Space marines is a single tactical squad). The core ruleset is the same.

Hmm, perhaps something more akin to Kill Team then, so still based on the more contemporary rule systems, but with more narrative elements like Necromunda/Gorkamorka/Mordheim en Inquisitor had.

True, but if you like the gameplay/rules of Necromunda, 2nd edition is the way to go.

Hmm, I'm more interested in the narrative and character development aspect of Necromunda. The rules are more of a secondary thing to me.

If we can only have the one, then I would choose necromunda. However, if we can make a list to be released in an order, then it would be;
1) necromunda
2) warhammer quest
3) mordenheim

 AegisGrimm wrote:

Hmm, how about some rule system which could be used for both GorkaMorka and Necromunda? Basically a system in which you could take 40k units, and 'translate' them into stats for those games. Basically a 40k skirmish game.

That's basically 2nd edition 40K, if you just build tiny "armies" using the points costs of individual models (for instance, 300pts of 2nd edition Space marines is a single tactical squad). The core ruleset is the same.

Leaving out some very important differences.

Experience
Injury
Individual equipment
Vehicle handling as a skill set
Individual skills at all.
Morale is handled by individuals instead of groups - but can affect nearby individuals....

So, no... not the same thing, except in a very broad stroke.

I was not at all unhappy to switch to 3rd edition WH40K - I like it much better than 2nd.

But I like Necromunda better than either.

The Auld Grump

Mordheim and necromunda

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:

Hmm, how about some rule system which could be used for both GorkaMorka and Necromunda? Basically a system in which you could take 40k units, and 'translate' them into stats for those games. Basically a 40k skirmish game.

That's basically 2nd edition 40K, if you just build tiny "armies" using the points costs of individual models (for instance, 300pts of 2nd edition Space marines is a single tactical squad). The core ruleset is the same.

Leaving out some very important differences.

Experience
Injury
Individual equipment
Vehicle handling as a skill set
Individual skills at all.
Morale is handled by individuals instead of groups - but can affect nearby individuals....

So, no... not the same thing, except in a very broad stroke.

I was not at all unhappy to switch to 3rd edition WH40K - I like it much better than 2nd.

But I like Necromunda better than either.

The Auld Grump

Precisely the reason I never find 40K as fulfilling - it lacks most of the emergent narrative elements that make Gorkamorka/Necromunda/Mordheim campaigns special. It's a great game but there's more to the SGs than just their in-game similarity to 2nd edition.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:

Hmm, how about some rule system which could be used for both GorkaMorka and Necromunda? Basically a system in which you could take 40k units, and 'translate' them into stats for those games. Basically a 40k skirmish game.

That's basically 2nd edition 40K, if you just build tiny "armies" using the points costs of individual models (for instance, 300pts of 2nd edition Space marines is a single tactical squad). The core ruleset is the same.

Leaving out some very important differences.

Experience
Injury
Individual equipment
Vehicle handling as a skill set
Individual skills at all.
Morale is handled by individuals instead of groups - but can affect nearby individuals....

So, no... not the same thing, except in a very broad stroke.

I was not at all unhappy to switch to 3rd edition WH40K - I like it much better than 2nd.

But I like Necromunda better than either.

The Auld Grump

I haven't played Necromunda in years, but as far as I can remember unless you are specifically playing a Necromunda campaign, which I never got to do, than with a little work you can take everything you would get from a one-off game of Necromunda other than skills, and put them in games of 2nd edition.

Take 2nd edition, remove all rules for squad cohesion and unit cohesion. Buy troops for your skirmish force with their individual points values (so a Tactical Space Marine with bolter is 30pts). Designate a "leader" at the start of the game, which functions for leadership and bottle tests just like a gang leader. All equipment is handled the same mechanical way as in Necromunda, minus the ammo tests. Add in the Necromunda rules for being "downed" and getting Flesh Wounds during a fight.

You aren't going to be able to easily use the experience system for campaigns, but using the Necromunda rules with the 2nd edition 40K codexes and tiny point value games gives you the same control (and effects) over individual models as Necromunda.

It's not "Necromunda with Space Marines and Eldar" but it makes for a very solid skirmish-based enhancement of the 2nd edition 40K rules.

 MarcoSkoll wrote:

 Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:
Surely Dark Heresy is a suitable replacement for Inquisitor?

No. It's a reasonable game, but it is not any kind of replacement for Inquisitor.

To take up my earlier point again, Inquisitor is a game where I can envision a cast of characters and then write them as I want them. Dark Heresy is a system designed for each player to have one character - who tends to need months or even years of levelling up to get to the point where the player envisions them ending up. While I enjoy Dark Heresy, the character creation is a lot more limited.

For an example of what I've been able to do with Inquisitor's options, I wrote Inquisitrix Katlien Vance as something of an internal affairs Inquisitor, hunting down rogue members of the Ordos. But the story is so much more interesting when alongside Interrogator Nyi Laysen - formerly a pupil of an Inquisitor who Katlien executed, but who was herself spared to become Katlien's mentee (being seemingly untainted by her previous master and far too talented as an investigator to simply kill).
This has developed into one of my favourite interactions - while the two manage to get along most of the time, the somewhat rocky past between them makes for some fantastic tensions.

These are themes and possibilities I can't explore with Dark Heresy, at least without having to ask an unreasonable amount of cooperation from another player, but there are no problems doing it with Inquisitor.

I enjoy Dark Heresy, but it offers something really very different and shares only superficial similarities.

This is very true. I have the actual dead tree Inquisitor rulebook sitting on my shelf (I had the BFG rules too but I sold them at a yard sale for $5...moron that I was). It is the only game I can think of offhand that really falls into the niche of the "Narrative Wargame". It is incredible how it straddles the line between wargame and RPG. I don't think that it was ever capable of being popular even by Specialist Game standards because you really had to understand both wargames and RPGs to get at the kind of game it was trying to be. Even then it didn't really do either of those too well on its own.

I could probably talk quite a bit about the game design that I feel like went into it, but that most likely wouldn't be a productive use of anybody's time

If you guys really want a 40k skirmish game, check these guys out:

http://heralds-of-ruin.blogspot.com/p/kill-team-rules.html

They are constantly updating and taking suggestions, play testing. It's a great (and much better) alternative to GW's kill team rules.

Mordheim hands down. The best gw game they have made. I think its better than necromunda although thats a fun game too.

I wouldn't trust GW with any of those games nowadays. Leaving them out in the rain only looks neglectful until you look at what they were up to inside the house. Poor 40k, no game deserves that treatment :(

Battlefleet then Mordheim, but they would find a way to ruin the rules...

I could not decide as each game brings a different aspect of play style and tactics.
It would be impossible to choose as i would want a bit of each so ill have to go with all of them im afraid.

Necromunda for sure! With proper support it could challenge any other sci-fi skirmish game in the marker currently.

BFG! (reading through the rule book again - you just feel the fun leaking off the pages)

 rockgod2304 wrote:
if you could bring back 1 gamethat GW would support which 1 would it be

With GW's penchant of doing everything in plastic again, and then loading the starter boxes with goodness... I choose Battlefleet Gothic.

I strongly wanted to say Bloodbowl, which I honestly feel is the strongest of all the specialist games, but BB actually has an active community that produces models for it.

Another strong conteder wouild be Neccromunda, but only if they didn't just do another lazy reprint and actually revised the rules and produced plastic terrain for it. Seriously, if Mantic can produce DEADZONE with beautiful plastic terrain and 4 full factions with a kickstarter, I think GW has deep enough pockets.

Incidently, I would throw buckets of money at a Kicstarter that would revive any of these games

I would say Mordheim. But then again, the original rulebook and fan-made expansions are available online, along with a dozen new warbands. Mordheim was well developed and good, quick, easy fun.

I love the idea of BFG, but have never played it. I would love a streamlined version of BFG and Necromunda to integrate into 40k campaigns.

 TheSilo wrote:
I would love a streamlined version of BFG and Necromunda to integrate into 40k campaigns.

BFG would make sense, but not Necromunda. Some Hive Gangs having a shoot out won't jive with any of the big players on a scale level. A single marine could wipe out any gang pretty easily.

i never played it, but gorkamorka always looked like fun.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:
I would love a streamlined version of BFG and Necromunda to integrate into 40k campaigns.

BFG would make sense, but not Necromunda. Some Hive Gangs having a shoot out won't jive with any of the big players on a scale level. A single marine could wipe out any gang pretty easily.

We've got rules for Kill Team (small scale 40k) but its not much fun. Having small-scale special operations rules along the lines of Necromunda would be cool. I've seen lots of campaign battle reports with those.

Battlefleet Gothic.

Beautiful game.

Can I have just one more run of Space Hulk? I'd like to get a physical game and not have to fork out $300 for it on ebay... Talk about getting into the hobby too late to the party.

I've seen kickstarters for games that look similar to Bloodbowl, some succeed, some fail. It depends on how big the company is that's trying to do it.

Otherwise, probably either BFG, or Bloodbowl. I've seen BFG played at our store by a few people. There's maybe four or five people in the community that have the stuff for it.

I know I am getting my Necromunda gameplay itch by using one of the "2nd edition Battle Bibles" you can find online to play retro games of 2nd edition 40K, just with squad cohesion removed and by having each player buy models at the individual level rather than the per-squad level, and capping the points levels of games at 4-500 points.

It's not Necromunda per se, because of the lack of a campaign and skill system, but the individual games have the same mechanical feel, because Necro used 90% of the 2nd edition 40K rules as a basis.

I still miss being able to get my hands on gangs and models that I don't already have from way back when (luckily I have lots), but at the same time it lets me experience the same gameplay that made me love Necromunda with all my Space Marines, Orks, Eldar etc. It even can give the bike-riding and small vehicle feel of Gorkamorka!

Necromunda for sure.

I am definitely interested in playing Epic: Armageddon, but for sure, when I think of my favorite experiences with the glory days of Specialist Games, I think of Battlefleet Gothic and Necromunda. Those games make me want to be 18 again.

Unfortunately, because I am 32 now, I have a problem believing those games will return, much to my sadness. Playing Battlefleet Gothic with flat sprite printouts of the ships as tokens is just not the same as seeing the models on the board.

I'd go for Epic and possibly BFG.

Epic. I don't have any miniatures for it anymore and they can be pretty expensive to try and buy, but I'd love to see models produced for it. Not sure why they quit. Also, love Mordheim, but the rules are out there and really any fantasy minis will work for the war bands, so it is still there.

Epic then BFG for me, just wish I was clever enough to convert inches to CM for 40k when I was younger..

Necromunda was a pretty epic game, but it's showing it's age. Mordheim had superior rules for damage and close combat.

Necromunda + Mordheim's close combat + damage table = W1N !!

I've actually thought of editing the Necromunda PDF's to include just that, but the project got derailed.

Also, it would be great to see a Necromunda Reboot with official rules for some of the Alien races, and the vehicle rules from Gorkamorka.

Orks, Dark Eldar Pirates, Grots, Stranded Tau Emmisaries, Genestealer Cult, etc.. would all be awesome inclusions to Necromunda......... Man, I should really work on that.

Necromunda would be my choice. Some revised rules, new terrain, and most importantly, some plastic kits to construct your own gangs next to new kits of the original gangs. But that has already been said a couple of times.

But knowing GW, they would make a limited boxset that is overpriced. The kind you'll need to sell a liver for.

Vehicle rules are already there for necromunda. Just look at the ash waste ruleset. Ah, they should add those rules to Necromunda rulebook. Better then releasing it as an add on which costs as much as a night out drinking

I would say BB, but it's doing fine on it's own.

I would say BFG, but there are enough other space combat games that let me scratch that itch.

So I'll say Mordheim. I haven't found a good fantasy skirmish game that compares with what Mordheim offered. There's Deadzone and Infinity for sci fi, but nothing quite comparable for fantasy.

I wonder if rather than GW produce them they would maybe license the IP's out to a satelite company like they do with Forgeworld, that would be nice

Tied between either Necromunda. Although both would kind of need to be revised, updated, have all the rules from all of the expansions and that condensed into one ruleset.

 AegisGrimm wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:

Hmm, how about some rule system which could be used for both GorkaMorka and Necromunda? Basically a system in which you could take 40k units, and 'translate' them into stats for those games. Basically a 40k skirmish game.

That's basically 2nd edition 40K, if you just build tiny "armies" using the points costs of individual models (for instance, 300pts of 2nd edition Space marines is a single tactical squad). The core ruleset is the same.

Leaving out some very important differences.

Experience
Injury
Individual equipment
Vehicle handling as a skill set
Individual skills at all.
Morale is handled by individuals instead of groups - but can affect nearby individuals....

So, no... not the same thing, except in a very broad stroke.

I was not at all unhappy to switch to 3rd edition WH40K - I like it much better than 2nd.

But I like Necromunda better than either.

The Auld Grump

I haven't played Necromunda in years, but as far as I can remember unless you are specifically playing a Necromunda campaign, which I never got to do, than with a little work you can take everything you would get from a one-off game of Necromunda other than skills, and put them in games of 2nd edition.

Take 2nd edition, remove all rules for squad cohesion and unit cohesion. Buy troops for your skirmish force with their individual points values (so a Tactical Space Marine with bolter is 30pts). Designate a "leader" at the start of the game, which functions for leadership and bottle tests just like a gang leader. All equipment is handled the same mechanical way as in Necromunda, minus the ammo tests. Add in the Necromunda rules for being "downed" and getting Flesh Wounds during a fight.

You aren't going to be able to easily use the experience system for campaigns, but using the Necromunda rules with the 2nd edition 40K codexes and tiny point value games gives you the same control (and effects) over individual models as Necromunda.

It's not "Necromunda with Space Marines and Eldar" but it makes for a very solid skirmish-based enhancement of the 2nd edition 40K rules.

The thing is that the campaign rules are the most important part of Necromunda!

I would not play the game that you describe - for my tastes the ongoing campaign system is the backbone of games such as Necromunda and Mordheim. Making those rules less central would lose the entire point of the games.

If you have not played the campaign version of either Necromunda or Mordheim then you are missing out on what makes the games great.

For my personal list:
1. Mordheim
2. Necromunda/GorkaMorka (make them one game!)
3. Warhammer Quest
4. Battlefleet Gothic
5. Epic (I really don't care which version - I would like to see a new edition that bears similarity to WH40K 3rd ed.)

But for Epic to work they would need plastics for the bulk troops - the switch to metal miniatures for the small infantry effectively killed the game.

Realistically... I think that Necromunda would likely be above Mordheim - while I prefer Mordheim there are a lot of Necromuda players, and Necromunda would serve as a gateway to GW's best selling game.

The Auld Grump

Gorkamorka

Warhammer Quest, all day, everyday.. who wouldn't want this lot to paint up now?! (Spoilered due to huge image)



Aside from that, I'd love to see a 're-release of Man O War.

I would say both Necromunda and Blood Bowl but the community themselves have done a better and more loving job on them than GW ever did.

I honestly think we're better off without. For me it'd be like Lucas coming out and saying "Awesome news! I've decided to take the reins on Star Wars again!!!!"

epic.... but I just bought DZC!!!!!

what about Inquisitor?

 Easy E wrote:
I would add Aeronautica Imperialis to the Don't Need-GW-Anymore tier as well except for the models side of things. other than that, the community has done a fine job making up rules, missions, scenarios, factions, etc.

Out of curiosity, what criteria did you use to determine the Don't-Even-Bother-Tier?

My "bring'em back tier" is essentially made of games that work fine but just need new minis.

The "now thanks I'm fine" tier is made of games that work fine and have 3rd party minis. Thanks GW, but we don't need you anymore.

About the "Leave 'Em Dead" tier...
Well, there's that naval warfare game that just belongs to the dustbin. There are some games I didn't like, but to each one his own. There are some games that didn't age well, and some games that would really need a rewriting.

I'm not that confident in some current authors abilities to handle a Gorgamorka revamp. Better leave some games in peace.

Necromunda/Mordhiem

 JbR of the Endless Spire wrote:
what about Inquisitor?

Hmm, if they'd bring it back in some 28mm form, maybe some sort of Inquisitor/Necromunda/Mordheim hybrid? Ooooh....

Necromunda, Necromunda, Necromunda, Mordheim, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, and Necromunda. In that order.

And I guess BFG was kinda kewl, but nobody in my neck of the woods played it.

BFG.

With Mordheim and Necromunda, you can model a number of the armies using existing models (which is what we are doing with Necromunda). With BFG, it is pretty hard to get good replacements for the ships. Luckily, we have lots and lots of ships from Way Back When, but would love to get a second or third fleet going.

Necromunda, Battlefleet and Epic. I miss new model releases for all the first two mentioned and would love a rules update for epic.

BFG and Man o war i always wanted to get into but never got a chance, and i will always adore mordheim

Battlefleet Gothic, always wanted to play it, by the time i got money they stopped supporting it

Necromunda

For me, its Blood Bowl...not because the rules need updates, but because its impossible to get new players involved (we have one now that wants to get an elf team). Ebay is not the solution because team prices on Ebay are so high, they'd make a GW CEO do a double take.

I think it's evil that to state a single game I would have to pick between BFG, Necromunda, and Epic.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
For me, its Blood Bowl...not because the rules need updates, but because its impossible to get new players involved (we have one now that wants to get an elf team). Ebay is not the solution because team prices on Ebay are so high, they'd make a GW CEO do a double take.

Not tempted by Impacts $35 16 man teams? They have a few good teams currently - Amazons, Norse (Valkyries), Wood Elves - and load more coming soon from their KS https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/674003445/17-fantasy-football-teams-new-pro-elves-and-orcs-a

 obithius wrote:
You mean would like GW to support again? Don't know...I played Epic last week, and have another game lined up for next week. Got a game of 40k 2nd edition on Monday. GW's support or lack of hasn't really made the slightest difference. If they started producing Epic minis again I still couldn't afford them! The rules for all these games are available, somewhere.

Round of applause, that man.

Battlefleet Gothic. Ship to Ship combat is so cool. There's always X-Wing though.

I am trying to bring back AI via Community support. You can join the Online Campaign to play and paint Aeronautica Imperialis here:

Sign-up here for the 5th annual Airspace online campaign.

http://z8.invisionfree.com/Airspace/index.php?showtopic=1005



This is an Online Campaign in the spirit of Games Workshop’s own The War for Armageddon, Eye of Terror, or Medusa V campaigns. In the Iurse of the White Wyrm Campaign, you can make a difference by buying, painting, modeling, or playing games related to the Aeronuatica Imperialis game system by Forgeworld.

You can find all the information you need to participate in the Curse of the White Wyrm Booklet by following the link above. The Campaign Booklet contains background, new rules, new missions, maps and more! It is a great resource for players experienced in the Aeronautica Imperialis universe and those new to the grim, dark future of aerial warfare.

The campaign will begin on September 1st, Central Standard Time and run until November 30th. To participate you can buy models, paint miniatures, build new aircraft, write exciting stories, create art or play games of Aeronautica Imperialis. You choose how you want to participate, but you will control the course of the campaign!

Thanks for your participation and good luck!

The_Real_Chris wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
For me, its Blood Bowl...not because the rules need updates, but because its impossible to get new players involved (we have one now that wants to get an elf team). Ebay is not the solution because team prices on Ebay are so high, they'd make a GW CEO do a double take.

Not tempted by Impacts $35 16 man teams? They have a few good teams currently - Amazons, Norse (Valkyries), Wood Elves - and load more coming soon from their KS https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/674003445/17-fantasy-football-teams-new-pro-elves-and-orcs-a

Most of them seem to be a bit....meh. Alot of the "big guys" models are nice, and the Ogre team is cool (would consider one of those if they get released), but it seems like some of teams were rushed and don't have a uniform look (its obvious some of the teams either had different sculptors working on the same team or models were repurposed).

Black Scorpion also has some nice alternate minis, but the teams are limited.

Yes a lot of the impact stuff is from amateur sculptors. Yes, not the best quality on some teams, but others are I think as good as GW's offerings. The new elf teams should be good and I like the mouse team. Though my favourite is the crocs, if only because I like Crocs

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
For me, its Blood Bowl...not because the rules need updates, but because its impossible to get new players involved (we have one now that wants to get an elf team). Ebay is not the solution because team prices on Ebay are so high, they'd make a GW CEO do a double take.

BB has so many "not BB" options online to buy, look up Impact! miniatures Elfball range for example or here, where I bought my elf team

For me, I'd like to see: Epic, BFG, Aeronautica Imperialis. Smaller and slightly more self-contained games.


Easy E - where would one get the Aeronautica Imperialis miniatures?

DrRansom wrote:


Easy E - where would one get the Aeronautica Imperialis miniatures?

Great question. In most case the usually sources would be needed.

However, the new factions in the Airspace Aircraft Compendium and the Curse of the White Wyrm supplement are all new aircraft so no "official" models exist. Therefore, you can use models from other game systems and manufacturers just fine.

For example, The Phaeton and Argus rotorcraft in the PDF list can be found in Dark Realms Pax Arcadia line. The Varingyr Mercenaries can be found in a combination of Dystopian Wars an EXodus Wars line. Troublemaker Games makes some nice 10mm aircraft in theirdefeat in detail range that would make great alternative PDF aircraft. You can find a thread on alternate aircraft here: http://z8.invisionfree.com/Airspace/index.php?showtopic=945

However, if that doesn't do it for you, you willhave to get more creative. Orks and chaos are easy to scratchbuild. It is the Tau, Eldar, and Imperials that are hard. For those I recommend the usual methods of Ebay, trade sites, and other alternatives.

You can find some Airspace Compilation here: http://z8.invisionfree.com/Airspace/index.php?showtopic=970

PM me if you have more questions.

BFG and Epic would be on the top of my list. Could never really get into Necromunda, as no one around me played it.

This thread is like self torture.....

Do you remember last year all the hype over a possible re release of inquisitor or necromunda. The runours said it was all a cert. I was pumping with anticipation, but to no effect.

It never happened, but I have got 30k, some way cool heresy era models and my one chink of light a zone mortalis board;-)

So as much as I will salivate over and be disappointed by the promise of a small scale 40k game I have truthfully abandoned hope. Remaining with the game to move in new and more costly directions of moralis and 30k. Such is life.

'SEMPER REFORMANDA'

Knockagh wrote:
This thread is like self torture...

Only if you hold your hands out to GW and expect them to be filled with something good, really.

Necromunda


Or if possible

a single book with ALL specialist games

 Desubot wrote:
Necromunda


Or if possible

a single book with ALL specialist games

Epic Nectleimasitor

I'd say Necromunda or Space Hulk, people like lasers.
A $100 game in box just to get new players into the universe.

Epic (spaces marine titan legions )
Gothic
Manowar

Necromunda.

BFG. By the way, why is there no poll option in this thread? It's a poll thread without a poll.

Epic and BFG are tops for me. I still play them when I can, but I'd love to get my hands on an Epic CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT

All Specialist Games add to the richness of their respective universes. They were abandoned with so much untapped potential. Though it is entertaining to hear that Forgeworld keep getting asked if they'd consider doing 30K Battlefleet Gothic!

Mordheim and necromunda, and Man O War. Missed the boat on Man O War, and think it could be an excellent game with new rules. Mordheim and necromunda are classics.

All this talk of BFG, then show your dedication:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/590294.page#7135503

GothiComp 2014. Enter thy submissions! 10 days left...

Not sure if this really counts but......

Hero's Quest!!!!

Necromunda, Not only is it the one that I would support the most, it's also the one that I think would be able to get the most traction locally.
I'd probably be one of the folks moaning about how much the figures cost (they had gotten pretty ridiculous by the time they were retired) but, if Necromunda was supported and not just a hulk-off, I'd pony up for a rulebook to get my gangs back on the table. I might even buy some new figs.

 zedmeister wrote:
All Specialist Games add to the richness of their respective universes. They were abandoned with so much untapped potential.

Well put.

What I've often said since is that Games Workshop have bottle-necked their universes. To look at Inquisitor, this was a massive boon for the core WH40K game. It further developed previously vague concepts like the Inquisition and introduced large chunks of new background - this would later allow the development of the Daemonhunter and Witchhunter codices, which were good, lore-friendly developments of the background.

What do we get now? Spess Mahreens inside Spess Mahreens.

 MarcoSkoll wrote:
What do we get now? Spess Mahreens inside Spess Mahreens.

Don't forget Spayse Maurines

I's trying to get my nephew interested in Battle Masters as a gateway wargame. Technically a GW game!

Arggg, it really boils my piss that GW seem wholly content on ignoring gateway games. Anecdotally speaking, based on my own peer group and posters here on Dakka and other forums, the MB games like Space Crusade, HeroQuest and Battle Masters introduced pretty much an entire generation of gamers to GW games. The amount of people here on Dakka that say they got into GW games this way makes me think GW are losing so much new blood from not having an easy and accessible entry to gaming.

It has to be BIG for me, I sold all my fleets as my car failed it's MOT and I needed money....a month later GW stopped supporting the game, gutted does not begin to describe how I felt!

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I's trying to get my nephew interested in Battle Masters as a gateway wargame. Technically a GW game!

Definitely a gateway wargame and definitely a good idea! It was one of my early wargaming experiences.

If your game is missing any parts, let me know as after assembling a complete copy. I've got a fair amount of extras that I'll let go for not-much-$.

Thanks but I have all the pieces. Battlemasters and Heroquest were definitely my gateways to minis gaming, and then Tyranid Attack (nearly the same as Advanced Space Crusade) was my intro to 40K.

All of which were a really, really long time ago.

Aeronautica was my jam. Yeah Battlefleet was great and Epic was, well, pretty epic but I loved me some Aeronautica.