So... in the Stormies Dex are the 55th Alphic Hydras, a Strormie batalion that's getting BFF with ultramarines with the most capable candidates being conscripted by the Smurfs into their ranks.
Am I the only one to assume that the whole lot is working for the Alpha Legion?

Everything is a plot of the Alpha Legion.

Burn them. Purge them with fire. Exterminatus their world.

Bharring wrote:
Everything is a plot of the Alpha Legion.

Burn them. Purge them with fire. Exterminatus their world.

Better still, call the inquisition! Destroy the whole Sector... just as planned...*whisper*

Scions getting conscripted into the UM ranks? Like being turned into marines?

If I completed misinterpreted what you're saying then ignore me. But if that is what they're implying, I figured Scions would be too old to undergo indoctrination/manipulation to become a Space Marine.

Although if they're not, and these guys *are* Alpha Legion, AND we see maybe a whole company of UM becoming secret Alpha guys....ho, ho, ho, that would be a pretty good story for GW to cook up!

 Kosake wrote:
So... in the Stormies Dex are the 55th Alphic Hydras, a Strormie batalion that's getting BFF with ultramarines with the most capable candidates being conscripted by the Smurfs into their ranks.
Am I the only one to assume that the whole lot is working for the Alpha Legion?

Yeah, it was obvious...firstly But, despite that, there are other Alphic regiments, so i just guess the name is from parental Schola Progenium. Still...would be classy from Omegon

 UlrikDecado wrote:

 Kosake wrote:
So... in the Stormies Dex are the 55th Alphic Hydras, a Strormie batalion that's getting BFF with ultramarines with the most capable candidates being conscripted by the Smurfs into their ranks.
Am I the only one to assume that the whole lot is working for the Alpha Legion?

Yeah, it was obvious...firstly But, despite that, there are other Alphic regiments, so i just guess the name is from parental Schola Progenium. Still...would be classy from Omegon

Or Alpharius, considering both may still be alive

Definitely a cool theory.

 Accolade wrote:
Scions getting conscripted into the UM ranks? Like being turned into marines?

If I completed misinterpreted what you're saying then ignore me. But if that is what they're implying, I figured Scions would be too old to undergo indoctrination/manipulation to become a Space Marine.

There are "whispers in Tempestus the young Scions from the regiment are recruited by Ultramarines"...so...its "rumor" and maybe they just make auxiliaries. Also, Scions are already indocrinated - brutally chemically brainwashed, so...

I have no idea what you guys are talking about. No idea at all.

 reiner wrote:
I have no idea what you guys are talking about. No idea at all.

Move along, nothing to see here!

Fluff for one of the regiments of stormtroopers in the new Militarum Tempestus codex.

As to the recruited into the UM, I think it's supposed to mean the best children that get brought in are rumored to be picked up and made into SM instead of stormtroopers.

Alphic Hydras?
There is no way Alpharius isn't all of them.

 Accolade wrote:
Scions getting conscripted into the UM ranks? Like being turned into marines?

If I completed misinterpreted what you're saying then ignore me. But if that is what they're implying, I figured Scions would be too old to undergo indoctrination/manipulation to become a Space Marine.

Although if they're not, and these guys *are* Alpha Legion, AND we see maybe a whole company of UM becoming secret Alpha guys....ho, ho, ho, that would be a pretty good story for GW to cook up!

I think its misinterpretation, and what it implies is they are conscripted into UM naval armsman forces/Ultramars PDF kind of deal... Haven't read the fluff too much, but its also possible that if the regiment/battalion or whatever operates its own Schola or whatever its called to train their recruits, perhaps the UM are selecting their most capable child-soldiers?

There are "whispers in Tempestus the young Scions from the regiment are recruited by Ultramarines"...so...its "rumor" and maybe they just make auxiliaries. Also, Scions are already indocrinated - brutally chemically brainwashed, so...

This would confirm what I said, operative/key word is 'young'.

Alpha Legion is known to infiltrate other chapters by pre-training recruits to increase their chances of being chosen at trials and to complete the training. They have a historical "love" for the Smurfs, Alpharius and Guilman being BFF from the start.... really, I bet half of the ultramarines are Alpha Legion by now..

So wait, half of all space marines are descended from ultramarines and half of the ultramarines might be alpha legionnaires (based on no fluff whatsoever, but this is a fun train of thought so roll with it), so... 1/4 of all space marines in the galaxy are Alpha Legion?

Alphic Hydras? Really?


How the heck would the Inquisition/Ultramarines not find that painfully suspicious.

Hey, I didn't make this up. I was idly reading some fluff in the Stormie-Dex and there it was.

55th Alphic Hydras... bla bla bla... close ties to the ultrasmurfs, have been deployed alongside 2nd 3rd 5th 7 th 8th... companies, some Progena are rumoured to be taken by the chapter and turned into full Astartes.

Now, I don't think that heresy spreads via geneseed but looks like at least a good few of the smurfs are now Alphas.

 Darth Bob wrote:
Alphic Hydras? Really?


How the heck would the Inquisition/Ultramarines not find that painfully suspicious.

Because GW for the last 6 years has been terrible at writing fluff.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Darth Bob wrote:
Alphic Hydras? Really?


How the heck would the Inquisition/Ultramarines not find that painfully suspicious.

Because GW for the last 6 years has been terrible at writing fluff.

Yeah, GW has taken to beating us over the head with "secret" information. Heck, the children's book "Howl's Moving Castle" is more subtle than 40k fluff!

Well, as long as it does move the story forward. Guilman returns only to find out that half his chapter are secret Alpha Legions would be too sweet.

So obvious a plot that nobody thinks it could possibly be a plot.

How would they be Alpha legion though? They would have to have Ultramarine geneseed, not to mention the mindwipes they go through (a good old dirus wash is hard to fight).

Actually, I think that the Alpha Legion is all a ruse. There is just one old Legionnaire in a shack somewhere, spreading so much misinformation that it seems like they are everywhere. It is all lies!

Why aren't they blue and green?

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Why aren't they blue and green?

They're in disguise

 purplefood wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Why aren't they blue and green?

They're in disguise

They need those nose/moustache/glasses disguises, that are attached to eachother

How could those storm troopers be Alpha Legion?
Are they known to use mortal followers, who have extensive ties to the military?
Wouldn't that also mean that the Alpha Legion have infiltrated the Schola?

It just doesn't add up.
I think the writer just thought it sounded cool, and didn't think of the Legion.

Am I missing something? What's the supposed link? Just because they have "Alpha" in their name?

Couldn't this be just because, at least according to that list on the Lexicanum wiki, all those new regiments have a greek character in their name?

But maybe the Deltic Lions are actually connected to the Celestial Lions, and the Iotan Dragons have a history with the Black Dragons Space Marine Chapter! *gasp*


... honestly, I don't think the Alpha Legion has a trademark on "Alpha". They're not GW.

 Lynata wrote:
Am I missing something? What's the supposed link? Just because they have "Alpha" in their name?

Couldn't this be just because, at least according to that list on the Lexicanum wiki, all those new regiments have a greek character in their name?

But maybe the Deltic Lions are actually connected to the Celestial Lions, and the Iotan Dragons have a history with the Black Dragons Space Marine Chapter! *gasp*

^

Yep. It just doesn't add up.
Of course, this is going to spawn another silly fan theory, like Tyranids being made by the Outsider / Old Ones / Flying Spaghetti Monster

We know for one that there is an Alpha Legion agent picking off Ultramarine descendents for one, he killed off an entire chapter via an intricate plot of indoctrinating the youth of the planet they drew recruits from via psyker mindfething. Once he gave the signal, all those who were turned into sleeper agents, near the entire chapter, let themselves be killed off and the entire ~1,000 Space Marines were wiped out in a swift blow (though it should be noted that he was supported by a full warband of the Black Legion with their resources).



Not only does "Alphic Hydras" scream Alpha Legion, they seem to make every attempt to please the Ultramarines, to the point that the Ultramarines draw recruits from them. So it's quite likely that the Ultramarines themselves have been infiltrated by the Alpha Legion, possibly even having sleeper agents in their own number. Which explain a lot of the utterly idiotic moves they've been pulling in Black Library books like McNeil's Ultramarines series, where Ventris is simply a terrible commander ad the Ultramarines almost don't even bother to think things through, like sending two people on a penitent crusade into the Eye of Terror.

And yes, the Alpha Legion are ridiculously good at infiltrating. Off the top of my head they brought down an entire chapter with sleeper agents, had at least one guy in the Inquisition IIRC, and work in small terrorist cells using cultists, although I can't find where that was stated, but I always hear about how the Alpha Legion uses mortals in its affairs. Either way, Ultramarines might need to do some purging, and make sure it's not Ultramarines they're purging, but sleeper agents.

EDIT, found it on the lexicanum, from Index Astartes and Legion apparently.

Even less is known about the internal organisation of the Alpha Legion since the Heresy than was known before. On occasions there have been successful assassinations of members of the Legion thought to be high-ranking officers, but their removal has had little visible effect on Alpha Legion operations.[1] It is believed that since the Heresy the Alpha Legion operates as independent cells hidden throughout the Imperium, coordinating various Cultist activity to subvert Imperial rule. While these cells operate independently of one another and destroying one will not effect the effort of their overall mission, the Legion still loosely coordinates its actions across the Galaxy. Who is coordinating these efforts and how they are doing so is largely a mystery to the Imperium, but many believe they achieve this through "Operatives". These figures are apparently human, but have undergone limited psycho-hypnotic therapy to make them absolutely loyal to the Legion. These operatives, fully infiltrated into Imperial society, act as the link between Alpha Legion cells and Cultists, and are their primary method of galaxy-wide communication.[1a]

So not only are the Alpha Legion really really good at infiltrating the Imperium, they're able to maintain communication across the entire fething galaxy between their cells via their operatives. That's probably a more efficient and bloody amazing system than the Imperium itself manages to pull off, what with barely FTL comms that are often garbled by the warp, yet Alpha Legion cells displaced across the entire galaxy can maintain communication with each other.

SECOND EDIT

Looked up the Chapter that got wiped out in one fell swoop by the Alpha Legion, it was the Crimson Consuls, Ultramarine descendent.

Ok, so? That still doesn't answer the question how the Legion got their human minions into the schola. Just sounds like speculation.

chaos0xomega wrote:
So wait, half of all space marines are descended from ultramarines and half of the ultramarines might be alpha legionnaires (based on no fluff whatsoever, but this is a fun train of thought so roll with it), so... 1/4 of all space marines in the galaxy are Alpha Legion?

Not really... keep in mind that 1/3 of the Alpha Legionnaires are not really Alpha Legionnaires, but Alpha Legionnaires that are just pretending to be Alpha Legionnaires.

Not the same at all.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Lynata wrote:
Am I missing something? What's the supposed link? Just because they have "Alpha" in their name?

Couldn't this be just because, at least according to that list on the Lexicanum wiki, all those new regiments have a greek character in their name?

But maybe the Deltic Lions are actually connected to the Celestial Lions, and the Iotan Dragons have a history with the Black Dragons Space Marine Chapter! *gasp*

^

Yep. It just doesn't add up.
Of course, this is going to spawn another silly fan theory, like Tyranids being made by the Outsider / Old Ones / Flying Spaghetti Monster

I LOVE silly fan theories. They are fun.

Also, if the Legion can infiltrate an organisation such as the Schola, wouldn't that mean they can infiltrate everywhere? What's to stop them from installing their own high lords?

I feel this meme sums up this thread

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ok, so? That still doesn't answer the question how the Legion got their human minions into the schola. Just sounds like speculation.

Check the updated post. Apparently the Alpha Legion makes use of normal human operatives who are completely loyal to the Legion and are dispersed throughout the galaxy and in such number that they are capable of maintaining active communication between multiple cells, which is a distance likely in the range of tens of thousands of lightyears. Which means that they must be quite substantial in number.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ok, so? That still doesn't answer the question how the Legion got their human minions into the schola. Just sounds like speculation.

By training them previous to submission into the Schola and then having them excel above everyone else because they were trained by the masters of guerrilla warfare? Then they'd join the Stormtroopers, infiltrate the upper ranks and then have the highest up guy let in all the Alpha Legion recruits and keep out any non-indoctrinated ones and just turn the Scions regiment into a big AL Cell. After that they'd buddy up with the Ultramarines, prove their worth and get accepted into the UMs and then destroy them from the inside.
JUST AS PLANNED

 Wyzilla wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ok, so? That still doesn't answer the question how the Legion got their human minions into the schola. Just sounds like speculation.

Check the updated post. Apparently the Alpha Legion makes use of normal human operatives who are completely loyal to the Legion and are dispersed throughout the galaxy and in such number that they are capable of maintaining active communication between multiple cells, which is a distance likely in the range of tens of thousands of lightyears. Which means that they must be quite substantial in number.

As I typed before, if they could infiltrate an government organization such as the Schola to the point where they can raise a Stormtrooper regiment loyal to them, then they should have no problems infiltrating other parts of the government as well. Like...everything. High Lords, even.

The implications are just too absurd, and effectively turn the Alpha Legion into a bunch of implausible, Dan Brown-esque Mary Sues.

 Wyzilla wrote:
(...)

And yes, the Alpha Legion are ridiculously good at infiltrating. Off the top of my head they brought down an entire chapter with sleeper agents, had at least one guy in the Inquisition IIRC, and work in small terrorist cells using cultists, although I can't find where that was stated, but I always hear about how the Alpha Legion uses mortals in its affairs. Either way, Ultramarines might need to do some purging, and make sure it's not Ultramarines they're purging, but sleeper agents.
(...)

As you already read on Lexicanum, the infiltration experts ("operatives") are described in Index Astartes.

The infiltration in the Inquisition happens in "We Are One", a short story by John French, part of the anthology Treacheries of the Space Marines ( what a lame name)

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ok, so? That still doesn't answer the question how the Legion got their human minions into the schola. Just sounds like speculation.

By training them previous to submission into the Schola and then having them excel above everyone else because they were trained by the masters of guerrilla warfare? Then they'd join the Stormtroopers, infiltrate the upper ranks and then have the highest up guy let in all the Alpha Legion recruits and keep out any non-indoctrinated ones and just turn the Scions regiment into a big AL Cell. After that they'd buddy up with the Ultramarines, prove their worth and get accepted into the UMs and then destroy them from the inside.
JUST AS PLANNED

Ok then, wouldn't that mean that ALL Stormtroopers are minions? Why stop with 1 regiment? Why not all of them?
Why even stop at Stormtroopers? Why not sisters, or commissars?
Also, doesn't the Schola have a very strict screening process? I mean, it is where the military elite is trained.

It's just such a convoluted scheme. There's so many plot holes it makes swiss cheese look like solid lead.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
As I typed before, if they could infiltrate an government organization such as the Schola to the point where they can raise a Stormtrooper regiment loyal to them, then they should have no problems infiltrating other parts of the government as well. Like...everything. High Lords, even.

That sounds kind of silly to me. A single Tempestus regiment is a whole different level to the higher echelons of Imperial government. They don't even compare.

 Trickstick wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
As I typed before, if they could infiltrate an government organization such as the Schola to the point where they can raise a Stormtrooper regiment loyal to them, then they should have no problems infiltrating other parts of the government as well. Like...everything. High Lords, even.

That sounds kind of silly to me. A single Tempestus regiment is a whole different level to the higher echelons of Imperial government. They don't even compare.

If they have the manpower and the skill to create a loyal stormtrooper regiment (trained from an prestigious academy, no less), then they would have the resources to go further.

To put it simply, if they are that good at infiltration, why don't they own the Imperium?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
As I typed before, if they could infiltrate an government organization such as the Schola to the point where they can raise a Stormtrooper regiment loyal to them, then they should have no problems infiltrating other parts of the government as well. Like...everything. High Lords, even.

That sounds kind of silly to me. A single Tempestus regiment is a whole different level to the higher echelons of Imperial government. They don't even compare.

If they have the manpower and the skill to create a loyal stormtrooper regiment (trained from an prestigious academy, no less), then they would have the resources to go further.

To put it simply, if they are that good at infiltration, why don't they own the Imperium?

And they have and do go further, but not to the point of infiltrating all of the Stormtrooper regiments or the High Lords.

Wyzilla wrote:We know for one that there is an Alpha Legion agent picking off Ultramarine descendents for one, he killed off an entire chapter via an intricate plot of indoctrinating the youth of the planet they drew recruits from via psyker mindfething. Once he gave the signal, all those who were turned into sleeper agents, near the entire chapter, let themselves be killed off and the entire ~1,000 Space Marines were wiped out in a swift blow (though it should be noted that he was supported by a full warband of the Black Legion with their resources).

Just for the records - was this in a Codex or some novel?

Wyzilla wrote:Not only does "Alphic Hydras" scream Alpha Legion [...]

Again, why? Because they have "Alpha" in their name?

Look at the other formations on that list: Alphic, Beltic, Deltan, Epsilic, ... the connection between these names should be evident, and the Alphic Hydras (as well as the Alphic Lions) have their name because that's the first letter in the alphabet, obviously following a designation pattern established by the parent organisation.

Unless you want to suggest that the Alpha Legion has somehow infiltrated the entire Scions program and is responsible for establishing this naming pattern, because no-one else in the entire galaxy is allowed to have "Alpha" in their name without it having to do with the Alpha Legion, no matter that "Alpha" is not a proper name but just a letter in the alphabet. This is equivalent to saying the United States Army has infiltrated the German Bundeswehr, because both militaries have a regiment that uses the number "1" in its name.

As to why they work well together with the Ultramarines, maaaybe that might just be because the Ultras have a good reputation when it comes to working with people?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
As I typed before, if they could infiltrate an government organization such as the Schola to the point where they can raise a Stormtrooper regiment loyal to them, then they should have no problems infiltrating other parts of the government as well. Like...everything. High Lords, even.

That sounds kind of silly to me. A single Tempestus regiment is a whole different level to the higher echelons of Imperial government. They don't even compare.

If they have the manpower and the skill to create a loyal stormtrooper regiment (trained from an prestigious academy, no less), then they would have the resources to go further.

To put it simply, if they are that good at infiltration, why don't they own the Imperium?

You seriously seem to have absolutely no sense of scale. Owning the Imperium would be an incredibly difficult procedure to execute, and then there's the whole thing of the Emperor still being aware of what's going on. Sending an infiltrator right onto Terra itself would simply risk everything they've built up. Plus it's much less resource intensive to control a single regiment than it is to take over the entire Imperium. For all we know right now they're at their logistical limit of infiltration and the system they've built is straining under all the weight.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
As I typed before, if they could infiltrate an government organization such as the Schola to the point where they can raise a Stormtrooper regiment loyal to them, then they should have no problems infiltrating other parts of the government as well. Like...everything. High Lords, even.

That sounds kind of silly to me. A single Tempestus regiment is a whole different level to the higher echelons of Imperial government. They don't even compare.

If they have the manpower and the skill to create a loyal stormtrooper regiment (trained from an prestigious academy, no less), then they would have the resources to go further.

To put it simply, if they are that good at infiltration, why don't they own the Imperium?

And they have and do go further, but not to the point of infiltrating all of the Stormtrooper regiments or the High Lords.

Ah, but that contradicts your theory of there being a high ranking operative in the Schola - surely if they have that much power, they would try to extend their influence further over the other regiments?

 Lynata wrote:

Wyzilla wrote:We know for one that there is an Alpha Legion agent picking off Ultramarine descendents for one, he killed off an entire chapter via an intricate plot of indoctrinating the youth of the planet they drew recruits from via psyker mindfething. Once he gave the signal, all those who were turned into sleeper agents, near the entire chapter, let themselves be killed off and the entire ~1,000 Space Marines were wiped out in a swift blow (though it should be noted that he was supported by a full warband of the Black Legion with their resources).

Just for the records - was this in a Codex or some novel?

Wyzilla wrote:Not only does "Alphic Hydras" scream Alpha Legion [...]

Again, why? Because they have "Alpha" in their name?

Look at the other formations on that list: Alphic, Beltic, Deltan, Epsilic, ... the connection between these names should be evident, and the Alphic Hydras (as well as the Alphic Lions) have their name because that's the first letter in the alphabet, obviously following a designation pattern established by the parent organisation.

Unless you want to suggest that the Alpha Legion has somehow infiltrated the entire Scions program and is responsible for establishing this naming pattern, because no-one else in the entire galaxy is allowed to have "Alpha" in their name without it having to do with the Alpha Legion, no matter that "Alpha" is not a proper name but just a letter in the alphabet. This is equivalent to saying the United States Army has infiltrated the German Bundeswehr, because both militaries have a regiment that uses the number "1" in its name.

As to why they work well together with the Ultramarines, maaaybe that might just be because the Ultras have a good reputation when it comes to working with people?

The use of the Hyrda iconography and the fact that they're Alphic, how could somebody write this and not see the connection?

 Wyzilla wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
As I typed before, if they could infiltrate an government organization such as the Schola to the point where they can raise a Stormtrooper regiment loyal to them, then they should have no problems infiltrating other parts of the government as well. Like...everything. High Lords, even.

That sounds kind of silly to me. A single Tempestus regiment is a whole different level to the higher echelons of Imperial government. They don't even compare.

If they have the manpower and the skill to create a loyal stormtrooper regiment (trained from an prestigious academy, no less), then they would have the resources to go further.

To put it simply, if they are that good at infiltration, why don't they own the Imperium?

You seriously seem to have absolutely no sense of scale. Owning the Imperium would be an incredibly difficult procedure to execute, and then there's the whole thing of the Emperor still being aware of what's going on. Sending an infiltrator right onto Terra itself would simply risk everything they've built up. Plus it's much less resource intensive to control a single regiment than it is to take over the entire Imperium. For all we know right now they're at their logistical limit of infiltration and the system they've built is straining under all the weight.

Ok then...if it is draining that much resources, wouldn't it be better to use all those operatives in that regiment in some bureaucratic position? Like as a Planetary governor, someone close to some general?
It just seems to be an awfully complex plot to undermine a chapter.

 Lynata wrote:

Wyzilla wrote:We know for one that there is an Alpha Legion agent picking off Ultramarine descendents for one, he killed off an entire chapter via an intricate plot of indoctrinating the youth of the planet they drew recruits from via psyker mindfething. Once he gave the signal, all those who were turned into sleeper agents, near the entire chapter, let themselves be killed off and the entire ~1,000 Space Marines were wiped out in a swift blow (though it should be noted that he was supported by a full warband of the Black Legion with their resources).

Just for the records - was this in a Codex or some novel?

Wyzilla wrote:Not only does "Alphic Hydras" scream Alpha Legion [...]

Again, why? Because they have "Alpha" in their name?

Look at the other formations on that list: Alphic, Beltic, Deltan, Epsilic, ... the connection between these names should be evident, and the Alphic Hydras (as well as the Alphic Lions) have their name because that's the first letter in the alphabet, obviously following a designation pattern established by the parent organisation.

Unless you want to suggest that the Alpha Legion has somehow infiltrated the entire Scions program and is responsible for establishing this naming pattern, because no-one else in the entire galaxy is allowed to have "Alpha" in their name without it having to do with the Alpha Legion, no matter that "Alpha" is not a proper name but just a letter in the alphabet. This is equivalent to saying the United States Army has infiltrated the German Bundeswehr, because both militaries have a regiment that uses the number "1" in its name.

As to why they work well together with the Ultramarines, maaaybe that might just be because the Ultras have a good reputation when it comes to working with people?

So obviously a space marine chapter or a guardsmen regiment could name themselves the Children of Horus. Because the Luna Wolves don't have a trademark on their names or anything.

No, all those who know of the Horus Heresy would likely have alarm bells going off at anything associated with the traitor legions, especially one that is well known for having a knack for infiltration, to the point that even the Inquisition itself was compromised. It's amazing that they weren't smoked for having a name that sounds remotely similar to the Alpha Legion, let alone a play on their icons and heraldry that should be causing alarm bells to go off all over the place. Plus there's the addition of the Alpha Legion having agents everywhere and one cell already targeted an Ultramarine descendent and wiped them clean off the map.

And yes, it was from the Space Marine omnibus, I forget which "book" it was in though.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
As I typed before, if they could infiltrate an government organization such as the Schola to the point where they can raise a Stormtrooper regiment loyal to them, then they should have no problems infiltrating other parts of the government as well. Like...everything. High Lords, even.

That sounds kind of silly to me. A single Tempestus regiment is a whole different level to the higher echelons of Imperial government. They don't even compare.

If they have the manpower and the skill to create a loyal stormtrooper regiment (trained from an prestigious academy, no less), then they would have the resources to go further.

To put it simply, if they are that good at infiltration, why don't they own the Imperium?

You seriously seem to have absolutely no sense of scale. Owning the Imperium would be an incredibly difficult procedure to execute, and then there's the whole thing of the Emperor still being aware of what's going on. Sending an infiltrator right onto Terra itself would simply risk everything they've built up. Plus it's much less resource intensive to control a single regiment than it is to take over the entire Imperium. For all we know right now they're at their logistical limit of infiltration and the system they've built is straining under all the weight.

Ok then...if it is draining that much resources, wouldn't it be better to use all those operatives in that regiment in some bureaucratic position? Like as a Planetary governor, someone close to some general?
It just seems to be an awfully complex plot to undermine a chapter.

It's the Alpha Legion. They utterly despise the Ultramarines and want revenge upon them above all. You might as well criticize the extreme blood feud between the Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists. There's a lot of bad blood between the two Legions before the Alpha Legion even turned traitor, it's not surprising at all to find out that they're targeting the Ultramarines, hell I'd be shocked it they weren't. It also might explain why the plot in-universe is so painfully obvious if you actually analyzed it for a bit. An Alpha Legion cell desperately wants to kill the Ultramarines or cripple them, so they're focusing on speed ahead of stealth.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
As I typed before, if they could infiltrate an government organization such as the Schola to the point where they can raise a Stormtrooper regiment loyal to them, then they should have no problems infiltrating other parts of the government as well. Like...everything. High Lords, even.

That sounds kind of silly to me. A single Tempestus regiment is a whole different level to the higher echelons of Imperial government. They don't even compare.

If they have the manpower and the skill to create a loyal stormtrooper regiment (trained from an prestigious academy, no less), then they would have the resources to go further.

To put it simply, if they are that good at infiltration, why don't they own the Imperium?

And they have and do go further, but not to the point of infiltrating all of the Stormtrooper regiments or the High Lords.

Ah, but that contradicts your theory of there being a high ranking operative in the Schola - surely if they have that much power, they would try to extend their influence further over the other regiments?

Why does it contradict the theory of there being a high ranking operative? They only infiltrate the things they need to achieve goals, and they don't need to spend resources infiltrating other regiments, their only goal here is to get in with the Ultramarines and they're achieving it.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 Lynata wrote:

Wyzilla wrote:We know for one that there is an Alpha Legion agent picking off Ultramarine descendents for one, he killed off an entire chapter via an intricate plot of indoctrinating the youth of the planet they drew recruits from via psyker mindfething. Once he gave the signal, all those who were turned into sleeper agents, near the entire chapter, let themselves be killed off and the entire ~1,000 Space Marines were wiped out in a swift blow (though it should be noted that he was supported by a full warband of the Black Legion with their resources).

Just for the records - was this in a Codex or some novel?

Wyzilla wrote:Not only does "Alphic Hydras" scream Alpha Legion [...]

Again, why? Because they have "Alpha" in their name?

Look at the other formations on that list: Alphic, Beltic, Deltan, Epsilic, ... the connection between these names should be evident, and the Alphic Hydras (as well as the Alphic Lions) have their name because that's the first letter in the alphabet, obviously following a designation pattern established by the parent organisation.

Unless you want to suggest that the Alpha Legion has somehow infiltrated the entire Scions program and is responsible for establishing this naming pattern, because no-one else in the entire galaxy is allowed to have "Alpha" in their name without it having to do with the Alpha Legion, no matter that "Alpha" is not a proper name but just a letter in the alphabet. This is equivalent to saying the United States Army has infiltrated the German Bundeswehr, because both militaries have a regiment that uses the number "1" in its name.

As to why they work well together with the Ultramarines, maaaybe that might just be because the Ultras have a good reputation when it comes to working with people?

The use of the Hyrda iconography and the fact that they're Alphic, how could somebody write this and not see the connection?

Unfortunate coincidence? It happens.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
As I typed before, if they could infiltrate an government organization such as the Schola to the point where they can raise a Stormtrooper regiment loyal to them, then they should have no problems infiltrating other parts of the government as well. Like...everything. High Lords, even.

That sounds kind of silly to me. A single Tempestus regiment is a whole different level to the higher echelons of Imperial government. They don't even compare.

If they have the manpower and the skill to create a loyal stormtrooper regiment (trained from an prestigious academy, no less), then they would have the resources to go further.

To put it simply, if they are that good at infiltration, why don't they own the Imperium?

And they have and do go further, but not to the point of infiltrating all of the Stormtrooper regiments or the High Lords.

Ah, but that contradicts your theory of there being a high ranking operative in the Schola - surely if they have that much power, they would try to extend their influence further over the other regiments?

Why does it contradict the theory of there being a high ranking operative? They only infiltrate the things they need to achieve goals, and they don't need to spend resources infiltrating other regiments, their only goal here is to get in with the Ultramarines and they're achieving it.

But that's just thinking small, isn't it? They are in position to achieve so much more than undermining a single chapter.

Example: If there was an SM chapter called the Ultra Guillimans you'd say they were related to the Ultramarines right? No, they're nothing to do with the Ultramarines. They just use the same iconography and their name has so much to do with them, gawd.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The AL don't have the resources to infiltrate the High Lords, most of the AL split into thousands of cells after they lost Alpharius..

It's really simple. The Alpha Legion have become really bad at infiltrating and couldn't think of a better name than "Alphic Hydras". This pathetic attempt was spotted almost instantly, but the Ultramarines thought they would pretend not to notice. It is all an elaborate sting operation, trying to get the higher levels of the scheme to reveal themselves.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Example: If there was an SM chapter called the Ultra Guillimans you'd say they were related to the Ultramarines right? No, they're nothing to do with the Ultramarines. They just use the same iconography and their name has so much to do with them, gawd.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The AL don't have the resources to infiltrate the High Lords, most of the AL split into thousands of cells after they lost Alpharius..

But they do have the resources to infiltrate the Schola and form a whole military regiment? I'm sorry, it still doesn't add up.
If the Alpha Legion is that fractured, how did they get organized to start such a monumental operation?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Trickstick wrote:
It's really simple. The Alpha Legion have become really bad at infiltrating and couldn't think of a better name than "Alphic Hydras". This pathetic attempt was spotted almost instantly, but the Ultramarines thought they would pretend not to notice. It is all an elaborate sting operation, trying to get the higher levels of the scheme to reveal themselves.

Just as planned?

The way this theory is going, that's probably likely

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 Lynata wrote:

Wyzilla wrote:We know for one that there is an Alpha Legion agent picking off Ultramarine descendents for one, he killed off an entire chapter via an intricate plot of indoctrinating the youth of the planet they drew recruits from via psyker mindfething. Once he gave the signal, all those who were turned into sleeper agents, near the entire chapter, let themselves be killed off and the entire ~1,000 Space Marines were wiped out in a swift blow (though it should be noted that he was supported by a full warband of the Black Legion with their resources).

Just for the records - was this in a Codex or some novel?

Wyzilla wrote:Not only does "Alphic Hydras" scream Alpha Legion [...]

Again, why? Because they have "Alpha" in their name?

Look at the other formations on that list: Alphic, Beltic, Deltan, Epsilic, ... the connection between these names should be evident, and the Alphic Hydras (as well as the Alphic Lions) have their name because that's the first letter in the alphabet, obviously following a designation pattern established by the parent organisation.

Unless you want to suggest that the Alpha Legion has somehow infiltrated the entire Scions program and is responsible for establishing this naming pattern, because no-one else in the entire galaxy is allowed to have "Alpha" in their name without it having to do with the Alpha Legion, no matter that "Alpha" is not a proper name but just a letter in the alphabet. This is equivalent to saying the United States Army has infiltrated the German Bundeswehr, because both militaries have a regiment that uses the number "1" in its name.

As to why they work well together with the Ultramarines, maaaybe that might just be because the Ultras have a good reputation when it comes to working with people?

The use of the Hyrda iconography and the fact that they're Alphic, how could somebody write this and not see the connection?

Unfortunate coincidence? It happens.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
As I typed before, if they could infiltrate an government organization such as the Schola to the point where they can raise a Stormtrooper regiment loyal to them, then they should have no problems infiltrating other parts of the government as well. Like...everything. High Lords, even.

That sounds kind of silly to me. A single Tempestus regiment is a whole different level to the higher echelons of Imperial government. They don't even compare.

If they have the manpower and the skill to create a loyal stormtrooper regiment (trained from an prestigious academy, no less), then they would have the resources to go further.

To put it simply, if they are that good at infiltration, why don't they own the Imperium?

And they have and do go further, but not to the point of infiltrating all of the Stormtrooper regiments or the High Lords.

Ah, but that contradicts your theory of there being a high ranking operative in the Schola - surely if they have that much power, they would try to extend their influence further over the other regiments?

Why does it contradict the theory of there being a high ranking operative? They only infiltrate the things they need to achieve goals, and they don't need to spend resources infiltrating other regiments, their only goal here is to get in with the Ultramarines and they're achieving it.

But that's just thinking small, isn't it? They are in position to achieve so much more than undermining a single chapter.

The Alpha Legion and Ultramarines hate each other, it goes back all the way to the rivalry between Alpharius and Guilliman and their differing stances on how war is to be conducted, with the Ultramarines preferring the direct path while the Alpha Legion prefers subterfuge and Xanatos Gambits. This finally boiled over when the Ultramarines attacked the Alpha Legion and possibly killed either Alpharius or Omegon. This would be a case of either a cell or maybe even the entire legion wanting to exact final revenge on the Ultramarines, and tainting their recruitment pool is a great way to start.

BrotherOfBone wrote:The use of the Hyrda iconography and the fact that they're Alphic, how could somebody write this and not see the connection?

And how would this tie in to all those other regiments, whose name is also a connection of a Greek letter + animal?

1. The Alpha Legion would have to control this entire branch of the Imperial Guard in order to influence the naming convention
2. The scale of infiltration necessary to influence both the name and the unit itself and the many sources of recruitment (the Ecclesiarchy Scholae) shipping orphans to the military seems way out of line
3. As someone else has already pointed out, it would be a bit silly to risk discovery by painting your infiltration unit with a name that is associated with the renegade military unit you are working for

And last but not least - what's the long term goal here? Because I do not think that the Tempest Scions have been around for only a few years. They've probably been retconned to have existed for several millennia, including the many "Alphic" units.

The Alpha Legion and Ultramarines hate each other, it goes back all the way to the rivalry between Alpharius and Guilliman and their differing stances on how war is to be conducted, with the Ultramarines preferring the direct path while the Alpha Legion prefers subterfuge and Xanatos Gambits. This finally boiled over when the Ultramarines attacked the Alpha Legion and possibly killed either Alpharius or Omegon. This would be a case of either a cell or maybe even the entire legion wanting to exact final revenge on the Ultramarines, and tainting their recruitment pool is a great way to start.

Huh, well we have a motive at least. It's a silly motive and a squandering of their resources if they did, in fact, undergo such a convoluted plot, but it's a plausible motive.
Of course, this is undermined by the fact they decided to name their pawns after the Ultramarine's worse enemy.

It would be like infiltrating the Soviet Union with a spy who has the alias of "Ronald Reagan."

The reason the AL can do something on that scale is because the individual cells spend a number of decades ensuring their plans come to fruition. And, we know how little things are checked in the Schola, it only takes one person to punch in some keys to start recruiting from such and such world, and then call them the Alphic Hydras.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lynata wrote:

BrotherOfBone wrote:The use of the Hyrda iconography and the fact that they're Alphic, how could somebody write this and not see the connection?

And how would this tie in to all those other regiments, whose name is also a connection of a Greek letter + animal?

1. The Alpha Legion would have to control this entire branch of the Imperial Guard in order to influence the naming convention
2. The scale of infiltration necessary to influence both the name and the unit itself and the many sources of recruitment (the Ecclesiarchy Scholae) shipping orphans to the military seems way out of line
3. As someone else has already pointed out, it would be a bit silly to risk discovery by painting your infiltration unit with a name that is associated with the renegade military unit you are working for

And last but not least - what's the long term goal here? Because I do not think that the Tempest Scions have been around for only a few years. They've probably been retconned to have existed for several millennia, including the many "Alphic" units.

The long term goal is to infiltrate the Ultramarines, something they couldn't really control otherwise.

Just pointing out the Alpha Legion has destroyed 2 Space Marine Chapters this way. Also while some members have fallen to Chaos, the original intention of the Alpha legion was to have Horus win and then this would eventually lead to the destruction of the human race and the elimination of Chaos. They're pretty evil.

BrotherOfBone wrote:And, we know how little things are checked in the Schola, it only takes one person to punch in some keys to start recruiting from such and such world, and then call them the Alphic Hydras.

Unless they've invalidate that piece of Codex fluff, the Scholae Progenium are quite thorough in their checks. The name of a military formation also gets decided at a higher level than the unit itself. And it would not recruit from a single Schola but multple.

That's some conspiracy theory!

BrotherOfBone wrote:The long term goal is to infiltrate the Ultramarines, something they couldn't really control otherwise.

So they've been doing this for ... how many millennia now? And to what effect? Other than, y'know, helping the Ultras win their wars.

Best plan ever. Destroy a chapter by keeping them alive.
I see no logical inconsistencies here.

 Lynata wrote:

BrotherOfBone wrote:And, we know how little things are checked in the Schola, it only takes one person to punch in some keys to start recruiting from such and such world, and then call them the Alphic Hydras.

Unless they've invalidate that piece of Codex fluff, the Scholae Progenium are quite thorough in their checks. The name of a military formation also gets decided at a higher level than the unit itself. And it would not recruit from a single Schola but multple.

That's some conspiracy theory!

BrotherOfBone wrote:The long term goal is to infiltrate the Ultramarines, something they couldn't really control otherwise.

So they've been doing this for ... how many millennia now? And to what effect? Other than, y'know, helping the Ultras win their wars.

To gain their trust, and they've been helping them against Orks and Eldar, they're not exactly slaughtering Alpha Legionnaires.

Hollismason wrote:
Just pointing out the Alpha Legion has destroyed 2 Space Marine Chapters this way.

Not exactly. Those two examples were masterful strokes of genius that involved directly tainting the recruitment pool of the Chapter via psyker indoctrination and turning everyone from there on to a sleeper agent. Not only did it work fiendishly well, it was nigh undetectable and nobody could see it coming. This however seems a lot more sloppy than the guy who executed that plan, so either that Alpha Legion Agent/Lord has gone nuts or somebody else tried to copy him and is doing a poor job at it. Sure they infiltrated, but I don't think it'll take long for an inquisitor to put two and two together and get right to purging. Because you've got to either be a moron or the Riddler from Batman to decide that leaving a glaringly obvious clue in the face of the guy you're trying to dupe is a good idea.

Yeah, that's why I don't think it's an AL plot;
Because it's so unbelievably stupid if it were, and it involves a lot of speculation, conditions and "what if" scenarios.

You'd have to be Tzeentch to pull something like this off.
Wait...maybe it was the demon parrot all along...

So are the Alphic Lions a sleeper regiment as well?
Or the Beltic Hydras?

It is a fun theory but you can't really prove it in any way, it seems like a large stretch. It would be fun if true but I doubt it.

It'd make sense for them both to be..

Maybe the Alphic Hydras just have a strange name and the guy who wrote their fluff really likes the Ultramarines. After all, it seems like they were always named that. I would buy the conspiracy theory if they had a name change.

On the other hand, it's a little weird how the same Storm Trooper regiment fights alongside the same space marine chapter repeatedly to the point where they are buddy buddy.

Hollismason wrote:
It'd make sense for them both to be..

It really wouldn't. See my previous argument about how ridiculous it would be if they had resources to form multiple complete regiments of minions.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, that's why I don't think it's an AL plot;
Because it's so unbelievably stupid if it were, and it involves a lot of speculation, conditions and "what if" scenarios.

You'd have to be Tzeentch to pull something like this off.
Wait...maybe it was the demon parrot all along...

Need I remind you that Bale and Carron were Alpha Legionnaires? Simply being in the Alpha Legion does not make one smart.

They also ended up dead.

Anyway, there are not enough hints in their background to support the AL theory other than their name. If it mentioned something like disappearing Ultramarines or curious inconsistencies with their paper work, then I might be more receptive to this theory.

They don't have to form complete regiments just a few well placed sleeper agents.

Where can they place a sleeper agent in a fighting unit in such a way that it is guaranteed that he won't die?

 Wyzilla wrote:
Need I remind you that Bale and Carron were Alpha Legionnaires? Simply being in the Alpha Legion does not make one smart.

Well, to be fair, they came from DoW. And DoW has taken liberties with the fluff before.

Besides, who's to say that Bale and Carron weren't mere puppets for the real Alpha Legion?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Where can they place a sleeper agent in a fighting unit in such a way that it is guaranteed that he won't die?

Behind everyone else?

This seems kind of dumb. If true it would seem ridiculously obvious. I'd find it more interesting if a name with a somewhat heretical sound actually turns out to be the most loyal of all. Of course inquisitors will probably ruin the party by anal probing each and every member of this regiment and possibly finding some Loh sticks and a map of the scion's base. Of course in-conclusive evidence is probably enough for them to sentence them as traitors and kill them anyway.

So yeah maybe it would be more interesting if inquisitors declared them rogues and forced them into exile and possibly turning traitor to survive. Inquisitors can really suck sometimes.

 Lynata wrote:
So are the Alphic Lions a sleeper regiment as well?
Or the Beltic Hydras?

Probably not but everybody instantly hates anything attributed to them. Kind of like how the names 'adolf' and 'hitler' have been completely ruined for all future generations, as well as the Nazi symbol which used to be a good luck sign and hitler's moustache. I could be wrong but I think once Arnold while running for governor commented on liking something hitler liked like his shoes. Apparently even hitler's shoes were evil. I can't remember what it was but it was something extremely ridiculous.

Shame this is now obviously not right...
Would have been entertaining to have it as a little easter egg...

 purplefood wrote:
Shame this is now obviously not right...
Would have been entertaining to have it as a little easter egg...

My issue is it's almost as bad as somebody writing their name backwards or forming a name out of their name. It just feels really cheesy like some death guard guardsmen being called the 666th cadian 'Death' guard-smen. In fact maybe all death-worlders are also sub-ordinates of the death guard since they all have 'death' in the name.

I'm not saying this isn't true. I just think it would be incredibly lame like when it was stated and later pretty much proven in 'heart of the swarm' than Narud from starcraft 2: wings of liberty is probably Duran because the name is the same spelled backwards. It's also like the whole 'alucard' being 'dracula' spelled backwards. I just don't want Dr. Live to really be Dr. Evil over here although normally it's infinitely less clever and more obvious.

 Lynata wrote:

BrotherOfBone wrote:And, we know how little things are checked in the Schola, it only takes one person to punch in some keys to start recruiting from such and such world, and then call them the Alphic Hydras.

Unless they've invalidate that piece of Codex fluff, the Scholae Progenium are quite thorough in their checks. The name of a military formation also gets decided at a higher level than the unit itself. And it would not recruit from a single Schola but multple.

That's some conspiracy theory!

BrotherOfBone wrote:The long term goal is to infiltrate the Ultramarines, something they couldn't really control otherwise.

So they've been doing this for ... how many millennia now? And to what effect? Other than, y'know, helping the Ultras win their wars.

They really are evil because they're helping out the ultramarines and therefore mat ward's ego. This will increase hatred of ultramarines and eventually lead to an exodus of 40k and warhammer in general. The universe is in a state of permanent chaos and stops completely when GW goes bankrupt. Just as planned!

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
Shame this is now obviously not right...
Would have been entertaining to have it as a little easter egg...

My issue is it's almost as bad as somebody writing their name backwards or forming a name out of their name. It just feels really cheesy like some death guard guardsmen being called the 666th cadian 'Death' guard-smen. In fact maybe all death-worlders are also sub-ordinates of the death guard since they all have 'death' in the name.

I'm not saying this isn't true. I just think it would be incredibly lame like when it was stated and later pretty much proven in 'heart of the swarm' than Narud from starcraft 2: wings of liberty is probably Duran because the name is the same spells backwards. It's also like the whole 'alucard' being 'dracula' spelled backwards. I just don't want Dr. Live to really be Dr. Evil over here although normally it's infinitely less clever and more obvious.

40k is a universe where there is a forgeworld named Metallica and there is an Ork warlord named after the only female (and also highly controversial) female uk politician.
There isn't much in 40k that is clever and even less that is subtle.

No real counter statements here purple. I'm not saying it wouldn't fit 40k and you're probably right. I just think it'd be one more really stupid thing to have.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
No real counter statements here purple. I'm not saying it wouldn't fit 40k and you're probably right. I just think it'd be one more really stupid thing to have.

Frankly it'd be better than perpetuals...
Least it'd kinda make sense.

 purplefood wrote:
Frankly it'd be better than perpetuals...

Those are not real. Just an Alpha Legion ruse, for some unknown and nefarious purpose.

 Trickstick wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
Frankly it'd be better than perpetuals...

Those are not real. Just an Alpha Legion ruse, for some unknown and nefarious purpose.

All is right with the world now.

I'm paying less and less attention to 40k. I'm more into fantasy. Not super subtle but more so and less obsessed with grim-dark. At least fantasy can be humorous even if it can be childish humor sometimes (ogres).

I dunno I like the imperial guard. Maybe what turned me off of 40k is hearing the epic ballad of Dr. Kill-face vs Pube-onicus the pestilent's great fight where infinity trillion people died and everything was composed of a bajillion skulls.

Sorry for going a bit off topic.

The new stormtrooper army is kind of cool. I used to love the imperial guard and a stormtrooper army sounds kind of nice. I would've preferred more heavy weapons types myself and possibly a huge titanic flying ship that spews out ordnance. It'd be like the movie 'titanic' except less romance and singing and instead more explosions everywhere. In short it'd be glorious. I'd cry at the end of that rather than titanic every time.

A Scion regiment doesn't decide it's own name as far as I know. Therefore, not only would the Alpha Legion have to infiltrate some orphans into the Scions and hope those orphans don't "go native" somehow, they'd also have to infiltrrate the one who NAMED the regiment of those infiltrators in order to have pulled this off.

As pointed out, the ones who NAME the regiments are much higher level than the ones int he regiment itself, so this would be quite a lot of effort. And when all that is said and done, WHY?

Yes, okay, WHY they'd infiltrate the Scions and get them buddy buddy with the Ultramarines is obvious. But WHY would they also infiltrate the guys who NAMED their Scion regiment and then name it "55th Alphic Hydras"? Isn't that just a bit... STUPID? It's like Russia spending a ton of resources and manpower infiltrating America's government just so it could get America's government to name Russia's spy "Mr Russian Spy".

...that said, I wouldn't be too surprised if the writer of this fluff didn't realize that. Cause Games Workshop.

 Lynata wrote:

Wyzilla wrote:We know for one that there is an Alpha Legion agent picking off Ultramarine descendents for one, he killed off an entire chapter via an intricate plot of indoctrinating the youth of the planet they drew recruits from via psyker mindfething. Once he gave the signal, all those who were turned into sleeper agents, near the entire chapter, let themselves be killed off and the entire ~1,000 Space Marines were wiped out in a swift blow (though it should be noted that he was supported by a full warband of the Black Legion with their resources).

Just for the records - was this in a Codex or some novel?

Short story. "The Long Games at Carcharias" by Rob Sanders. From the "Victories of the Space Marines" anthology.

TiamatRoar wrote:
(...)
...that said, I wouldn't be too surprised if the writer of this fluff didn't realize that. Cause Games Workshop.

I think this is the truth. It was sort of an unwilled easter egg.
Anyway, it is still funny. And perhaps whoever wrote the Codex was an Alpha Legion Marine in disguise. (Or an Alpha fanboy).

Well, the Legion does not need to infiltrate the whole Regiment, though maybe faking their IDs would be possible. Something along the lines of:

"eleventyfirst Pyjama warriors? There was a recent change of plans in the administratum, your reinforcements will consist of this other regiment, the Alphic Hydras".

Though in this case, the whole recruiting process is interesting. And having just one or two bigwigs in the schola - which wouldnt be that difficult to pull off would allow the legion to send in pre-trained recruits into the schola, maybe even shifting their mindwipe order in a fashin that the right candidates are brainwashed on paper only. And since both, Schola training and Space marine selection consists to a good chunk of "we put you in a surprising situation and see how you do", people who come prepared and actually know the challenge and have trained beforehand what they have to do would have an advantage.
That is, if it's not running like this
Ultrasmurf: "Abbot, who's the best this year?"
Alpha Legion Operative: "Well, noble Spess Muhreen, Alphicus, Alphonsius, Alpharionius and Hydralphius are the most capable this year"
Ultrasmurf:"Fair enough, send them over"

Well, I, for one, will be painting my Scions in these colors. Awesome colour scheme, and some pretty neat background in my opinion!

Also, someone on the beloved /tg/ pointed out this:

>The 32nd Thetoid Eagles command structure is wiped out fighting the Alpha Legion. The regiment disappears.
>The 55th Alphic Hydras deploy alongside the Ultramarines repeatedly
>Men from the Alphic Hydras are recruited into the Ultramarines chapter.

 thenoobbomb wrote:
Well, I, for one, will be painting my Scions in these colors. Awesome colour scheme, and some pretty neat background in my opinion!

Also, someone on the beloved /tg/ pointed out this:

>The 32nd Thetoid Eagles command structure is wiped out fighting the Alpha Legion. The regiment disappears.
>The 55th Alphic Hydras deploy alongside the Ultramarines repeatedly
>Men from the Alphic Hydras are recruited into the Ultramarines chapter.

Interesting.
Were the Eagles renamed the Hydras?
The problem with this whole conspiracy theory is that in order for the AL to start naming regiments, they would have to have a good hold on the Schola.
It would be like if Putin owned the Pentagon.

What's so difficult about infiltrating a Schola Progenium?
Basically, that's just a bunch of Drill Abbots, some servitors, maybe some Administratum Bigwig. It's just a glorified boot camp. I think it very well within the capability of the AL to infiltrate a single Schola. From then on it's just a matter of establishing ties to a chapter you want to corrupt.

Could some one please fill me in on this theory, i have no idea as to what you all are talking about haha. Thank you

 tko75 wrote:
Could some one please fill me in on this theory, i have no idea as to what you all are talking about haha. Thank you

Read the thread?

I can't believe nobody brought this up yet, but the piece itself if your read it carefully says that the incidence of them working with the ultramarines has recently increased manifold. Consider please that the naming sequence could have already been in place for hundreds of years if not much longer. If I were an alpha legionaire , and I am not saying that I am or denying it for that matter, I would find it a delicious irony to infiltrate this scion regiment just because it is already called the Alphic Hydras. Is already respected beyond reproach or else it would have been purge long ago as others have pointed out. And I would simply step in and twist the dagger that others have so carelessly left lying around. Heck I would do this because it can be done with the dedication of a single alpha legionaire and a bunch of indoctrinated little orphans. How easy is it really in the imperium to forge some documents claiming this random kid i picked up and mindwiped is the infant son of some dead imperial guard officer that we get 100 of every emperor-be-damned minute. Geting to the ultramarines if they are stupid enough to let me get that far is just a bonus, the real objective is that this IS such a visible and suspect course of action. Let them see me comming if they can. They won't notice the other 15 daggers I have ready to stab in their backs if they are only looking at me.

Alright, that's a good point. it's a lot more plausible that the Alpha Legion did NOT name this regiment, but instead singled it out eventually because of its name. It's still the equivalent of being a devil in plain sight and painting a big red bullseye on their infiltrators, but Book 3 Extermination states that the Alpha Legion purposefully makes things harder than they have to just to challenge themselves.

Yes, that outcome seems more likely.

TiamatRoar wrote:
Alright, that's a good point. it's a lot more plausible that the Alpha Legion did NOT name this regiment, but instead singled it out eventually because of its name. It's still the equivalent of being a devil in plain sight and painting a big red bullseye on their infiltrators, but Book 3 Extermination states that the Alpha Legion purposefully makes things harder than they have to just to challenge themselves.

Maybe they want to see how gullible the sons of gullibleman really are..? Or at least, how oblivious?

I love everyone in this thread claiming the logistics of it are impossible and its just too obvious the Alpha Legion would never do that as if this is real life and not 40k.

The writers of this setting are not awesome they write simple sci fi for a simple theme so we can make up our own stories without needlessly worrying about stepping on the fluff. It is completely reasonable they would name an Alpha Legion Cell the Alphic Hyrdas and have them target the UMs, it makes fluffly sense if you don't nitpick it and that's what 40k is built on things making "kinda sense". None of 40k makes any sense if you look into too much, from the Heresy to Tau existing you can nitpick it apart.

Just like I think Blood Ravens are loyalist Thousand Sons, The Sons of Anteus are loyalist descendants of the Deathguard, Minotaurs are loyalist World Eater descendants and Carachadons are loyalist Night Lords, I'm going to now assume the 55th Hydras are a Alpha Legion cell that are attempted to destroy the UMs.

Does it make sense if you look into to much, of course not because this is a game not real life.

I mean I'm not sure because I don't check those forums but are fans of Halo complaining the Chief can solo entire armies when earlier in the setting a whole bunch of Spartans died to the same Covenant armies?

Now if you excuse me I'm off to paint my newly converted Female Chaos Grey Knights with Deamon infested Tau allies, don't worry I made them all true scale so as to be "realistic"

2x210 wrote:
I love everyone in this thread claiming the logistics of it are impossible and its just too obvious the Alpha Legion would never do that as if this is real life and not 40k.

The writers of this setting are not awesome they write simple sci fi for a simple theme so we can make up our own stories without needlessly worrying about stepping on the fluff. It is completely reasonable they would name an Alpha Legion Cell the Alphic Hyrdas and have them target the UMs, it makes fluffly sense if you don't nitpick it and that's what 40k is built on things making "kinda sense". None of 40k makes any sense if you look into too much, from the Heresy to Tau existing you can nitpick it apart.

Just like I think Blood Ravens are loyalist Thousand Sons, The Sons of Anteus are loyalist descendants of the Deathguard, Minotaurs are loyalist World Eater descendants and Carachadons are loyalist Night Lords, I'm going to now assume the 55th Hydras are a Alpha Legion cell that are attempted to destroy the UMs.

Does it make sense if you look into to much, of course not because this is a game not real life.

I mean I'm not sure because I don't check those forums but are fans of Halo complaining the Chief can solo entire armies when earlier in the setting a whole bunch of Spartans died to the same Covenant armies?

Now if you excuse me I'm off to paint my newly converted Female Chaos Grey Knights with Deamon infested Tau allies, don't worry I made them all true scale so as to be "realistic"

Actually it does make sense if you've bothered to read the HH series, where there were many loyalists from the traitor legions who shed their allegience and were swallowed up by other chapters or organizations. the Grey Knights were formed from the Luna Wolves and Death Guard, the Iron Skulls are likely the loyalist Iron Warriors assimilated by the Ultramarines, the Ultramarines also assimilated the survivors of one of the unknown legions after they turned traitor before the HH (or something along those lines), which is why the Ultramarines Legion is unusually large and explains why so many Ultramarine descendents are mutated despite being "pure". Hell, it's a part of the fluff.

Except that, as per GW's Index Astartes - a source written and published by the main studio itself, not a bunch of freelance writers whose ideas frequently contradict Codex material - the Ultramarines were already the largest Legion before the Horus Heresy.

"As the largest Space Marine Legion, the Ultramarines' contributions to this resource was greater than any other Legion and, as a result, their gene-seed became the stock type for many of the Second Founding Chapters. Those Chapters created from the Ultramarines geneseed stored on Terra are known, collectively, as the Primogenitors or 'first born', and they also venerate Roboute Guilliman as their founding father. The Ultramarines gene-seed is by far the purest stock and there are no known aberrations in its genetic structure."
- WD #264

Also, did anyone notice that there are at least 54 other regiments bearing the name "Alphic Hydras"? Are they secretly working for the Alpha Legion, too?

From what I'm reading here, it all comes down to "these guys are helping the Ultramarines, that means they must be traitors!" - which just sounds a little ... thin.

The main reasoning behind it is narrative convention. Outside of the fluff, using out-of-universe reasoning, any author who wrote that piece most likely knew about the Alpha Legion and its Hydra symbol. Especially if he's a GW employee that had access to Book 3 Alpha Legion info as it was in production as well. Hypothetically, this GW author might have been inspired to make this regiment as he read Book 3 in advance and saw the Legion's synopsis and its hydra motif and artworks.

In-universe, yea, it's rather nonsensical. But as a work of fiction being written by an author, narrative convention makes it at least plausible.

So it's not "these guys are helping the Ultramarines, that means they must be traitors!". It's "The fluff author gave these guys a name that just screams Alpha Legion, so they might/must be Alpha Legion!" (I'd definately go with "might", myself) Which is definately NOT rock-concrete of anything but is still a possibility. Still, it's possible that the author is just trolling people. Unlike the Blood Ravens who at this point the writers couldn't make it any more obvious short of explicitly saying so directly by now (given Arvida Revuel the loyalist Thousand Son that's still running around), there is nothing in the piece itself that really is that suspicious beyond the name right now. Really, hypothetically speaking, if the name of this regiment was almost anything else, it wouldn't be suspicious at all. So there's always the simple fact that the author maybe just liked the name "Alphic Hydras", or that the author is purposefully joking at people finding Alpha Legion conspiracies everywhere but the truth is this regiment is 100% innocent. Or maybe there is no answer at this point in time and the author just wanted to encourage discussion on the matter (as many other aspects of 40k fluff are purposefully kept vague for reasons like that)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lynata wrote:

Also, did anyone notice that there are at least 54 other regiments bearing the name "Alphic Hydras"? Are they secretly working for the Alpha Legion, too?

Like discussed earlier, it's possible the regiment and its name, as well as the 54 regiments before it, were initially entirely innocent, but one day, as the 55th one rolled around, some Alpha Legionaires looked at its name and thought "Hey, I have an absolutely hilarious idea..."

The name "Alphic Hydras" is also following a naming convention (greek letter + animal) established for an entire army troop type, though - to me, it just sounds a bit ... much ... to assume that they'd go this much out of the way just to insert a minor easter egg.

To me, it looks like simple coincidence. That being said, I also believe it is not beyond some writers in the studio to "troll" the players, considering some other fluff they have put out. Games Workshop has a long and proud history of playing with people's expectations, using ambiguity, intentionally self-contradicting material and semi-hidden meanings between printed lines to make people read a thousand different things out of their books. I could well see how this could develop into a sort of "paranoia" where fans now start seeing conspiracies where none exist. Or where others, like (possibly) me, are too blinded by their belief to be adept at discovering said hidden meanings think they've seen through the ruse, only to walk right into the trap.

 Lynata wrote:
The name "Alphic Hydras" is also following a naming convention (greek letter + animal) established for an entire army troop type, though - to me, it just sounds a bit ... much ... to assume that they'd go this much out of the way just to insert a minor easter egg.

To me, it looks like simple coincidence. That being said, I also believe it is not beyond some writers in the studio to "troll" the players, considering some other fluff they have put out. Games Workshop has a long and proud history of playing with people's expectations, using ambiguity, intentionally self-contradicting material and semi-hidden meanings between printed lines to make people read a thousand different things out of their books. I could well see how this could develop into a sort of "paranoia" where fans now start seeing conspiracies where none exist. Or where others, like (possibly) me, are too blinded by their belief to be adept at discovering said hidden meanings think they've seen through the ruse, only to walk right into the trap.

Or its that they're literally called the Alphic Hydras, and there's no ambiguity whatsoever.

I'm still of the opinion that if true it just feels really, really stupid. This would be even worse than the 'alucard' spelling 'dracula' backwards or the whole 'dr. narud' actually being 'duran' in starcraft 2 (which actually ended up being true and is just the name spelled backwards). I just sort of sigh every time that kind of happens.

Then again isn't the symbol of the hydra also on the alpha legion? That part is admittedly a little more clever. Dunno how I only just noticed this.

Oh god please don't tell me this was an easter egg.

Man this reminds me of part of something some bad guy civilizations say humorously to good guy civilizations in 'Galactic Civilizations 2'. It goes something like this.

"Do you know why evil wins? Because good is dumb!"

Seriously when don't the good guys end up doing something stupid in some way in 40k.

I liked it when things were more clever than alphic hydra consipiracy theories and people thought about the machine god techpriests worshipped actually being the void dragon (because I think that was the case). Then there was some stuff having to do with the necron artifacts discovered by the tau. There was also the coolness with the pariah gene and tyranids avoiding a necron world since there was probably no life on it. I just feel like GW can be more clever than alphic hydras being traitor. It just seems really cheesy.

Random thought, but hasn't this conversation lent itself towards belong in the Background section?

The problem is that there is no actual evidence pointing towards the conclusion. Everything presented so far has been largely supposition and coincidence. Sure, the narrative fits if you want it to but there is nothing actually proving it. Until something is released that furthers this fluff point it can be nothing more than a possibility, and a weak one at that. It really does just seem like a huge stretch to jump to this conclusion. I actually would be interested if it was a true plot point but the evidence just isn't there in any concrete way.

 Lynata wrote:
Except that, as per GW's Index Astartes - a source written and published by the main studio itself, not a bunch of freelance writers whose ideas frequently contradict Codex material - the Ultramarines were already the largest Legion before the Horus Heresy.

"As the largest Space Marine Legion, the Ultramarines' contributions to this resource was greater than any other Legion and, as a result, their gene-seed became the stock type for many of the Second Founding Chapters. Those Chapters created from the Ultramarines geneseed stored on Terra are known, collectively, as the Primogenitors or 'first born', and they also venerate Roboute Guilliman as their founding father. The Ultramarines gene-seed is by far the purest stock and there are no known aberrations in its genetic structure."
- WD #264

Also, did anyone notice that there are at least 54 other regiments bearing the name "Alphic Hydras"? Are they secretly working for the Alpha Legion, too?

From what I'm reading here, it all comes down to "these guys are helping the Ultramarines, that means they must be traitors!" - which just sounds a little ... thin.

There's "large" and then there's "ruling an entire Segmentum and accounting for nigh all Astartes Chapters post the Horus Heresy".

Also, the quote actually describes them after the Horus Heresy, and the Ultramarines also assimilated one of the unknown legions before the Horus Heresy additionally and would have had their gene seed labeled Ultramarine. So it fits perfectly.

 Trickstick wrote:
How would they be Alpha legion though? They would have to have Ultramarine geneseed, not to mention the mindwipes they go through (a good old dirus wash is hard to fight).

Actually, I think that the Alpha Legion is all a ruse. There is just one old Legionnaire in a shack somewhere, spreading so much misinformation that it seems like they are everywhere. It is all lies!

Ultrasmurfs to be Crimson Consul'd?

I think that the person who wrote the fluff about the 55th definitely knew about the Alpha Legion fluff, so it's probably like every other piece of fluff in the book in that it's meant to inspire you to create your own regiment or background.

Forging a narrative ahoy!

Also, all you naysayers who cry coincidence, why?
If anything, this theory makes the 'troopers a bit more interesting, and the Alpha Legion a lot more sneaky!

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ok, so? That still doesn't answer the question how the Legion got their human minions into the schola. Just sounds like speculation.

By training them previous to submission into the Schola and then having them excel above everyone else because they were trained by the masters of guerrilla warfare? Then they'd join the Stormtroopers, infiltrate the upper ranks and then have the highest up guy let in all the Alpha Legion recruits and keep out any non-indoctrinated ones and just turn the Scions regiment into a big AL Cell. After that they'd buddy up with the Ultramarines, prove their worth and get accepted into the UMs and then destroy them from the inside.
JUST AS PLANNED

Ok then, wouldn't that mean that ALL Stormtroopers are minions? Why stop with 1 regiment? Why not all of them?
Why even stop at Stormtroopers? Why not sisters, or commissars?
Also, doesn't the Schola have a very strict screening process? I mean, it is where the military elite is trained.

It's just such a convoluted scheme. There's so many plot holes it makes swiss cheese look like solid lead.

I believe convoluted is the Alpha Legion's calling card.

 ChazSexington wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ok, so? That still doesn't answer the question how the Legion got their human minions into the schola. Just sounds like speculation.

By training them previous to submission into the Schola and then having them excel above everyone else because they were trained by the masters of guerrilla warfare? Then they'd join the Stormtroopers, infiltrate the upper ranks and then have the highest up guy let in all the Alpha Legion recruits and keep out any non-indoctrinated ones and just turn the Scions regiment into a big AL Cell. After that they'd buddy up with the Ultramarines, prove their worth and get accepted into the UMs and then destroy them from the inside.
JUST AS PLANNED

Ok then, wouldn't that mean that ALL Stormtroopers are minions? Why stop with 1 regiment? Why not all of them?
Why even stop at Stormtroopers? Why not sisters, or commissars?
Also, doesn't the Schola have a very strict screening process? I mean, it is where the military elite is trained.

It's just such a convoluted scheme. There's so many plot holes it makes swiss cheese look like solid lead.

I believe convoluted is the Alpha Legion's calling card.

It really is, alongside Pride.

Oh, in the fluff for another Alphic regiment they wrote that they would maintain close ties to another SM chapter. I think there's system to the whole Alpha production line...

Wyzilla wrote:There's "large" and then there's "ruling an entire Segmentum and accounting for nigh all Astartes Chapters post the Horus Heresy".

There's also exaggerated hearsay, licensed fluff, and GW fluff. In the latter, Ultramar is a small cluster of 8 systems with 8 (formerly nine, but Prandium was devastated during the 'nid invasion) major planets. In spite of the proximity in names, Ultima Segmentum is not "ruled by the Ultramarines".

And "many Chapters of the Second Founding" is also not equal to "nearly all post-Heresy Astartes Chapters ever".

Wyzilla wrote:Also, the quote actually describes them after the Horus Heresy, and the Ultramarines also assimilated one of the unknown legions before the Horus Heresy additionally and would have had their gene seed labeled Ultramarine. So it fits perfectly.

If - again according to White Dwarf - there are "no known aberrations" in the Ultramarines' geneseed, how exactly does it fit to your statement about "many Ultramarine descendants being mutated"? It doesn't seem to add up. Which Ultramarines descendants are you talking about, specifically?

Also, them having absorbed one of the unknown Legions prior to the Heresy - is this novel fluff, or from a Codex? Because contrary to popular belief, both sources are not required to deliver a consistent, compatible interpretation of the setting, and GW books have contradicted novels (and vice versa) before.
(mind you: tie-ins are possible - you just should not make the mistake to expect them)

Inky wrote:I think that the person who wrote the fluff about the 55th definitely knew about the Alpha Legion fluff, so it's probably like every other piece of fluff in the book in that it's meant to inspire you to create your own regiment or background.
Forging a narrative ahoy!

Yeah, it could be like the (probably also intentional) controversy regarding the Blood Ravens.

Thinking about it, maybe it's less about this easter egg influencing the entire naming convention of the Storm TroopersScions as I first thought, but rather the author just looked at the pattern (greek letter + animal) which had already been decided, and then got the idea about doing something with "Alphic" (which has already been there) by adding an animal that may be associated with the Alpha Legion, and then typing up a backstory that might hint at a scheme.

Inky wrote:Also, all you naysayers who cry coincidence, why?

In my view, it just boils down them having a history of helping the Ultras, which is ... thin. It can't be the name alone, because this would mean that somehow the Alpha Legion has at least 55 regiments of Schola-raised elite Imperial Guard under its control (as well as whoever decides on naming the regiments). Which seems a bit like a stretch, even for master conspirators, and certainly not in line with how the scope of their scheming had been described in earlier sources.

That said, I admit that the mere fact that they and their history with the Ultras are mentioned at all could be seen as a hint (see TamatRoar's post - also regarding the idea of a possible infiltration of a single unit rather than all of them), of course with the usual "it could be, or maybe it isn't" caveat that accompanies such pieces.

"But is it all true? Yes and no. Even though some of it is plainly contradictory? Yes and no. Do we deliberately contradict, retell with differences? Yes we do. Is the newer the stuff the truer it is? Yes and no. In some cases is it true that the older stuff is the truest? Yes and no. Maybe and sometimes. Depends and it varies."
- Marc Gascogne, (former) Chief Editor Black Library

It's worth noting by the way that the authors have said that the Ultramarines did NOT in fact absorb the lost legions. the Comment suggesting they did was made by a member of the word bearers as "jelousy fueled speculation" with no basis in fact. In short sometimes when a character in a novel spews a conspiracy theory it's not nesscarily true

BrianDavion wrote:a character in a novel

Ahh. Thank you.

What's the color scheme of these guys and their symbols anyway? Not sure it matters as pre-heresy and current traitor marines look different but I just want to see the style if nothing else.

Also I'm feeling kind of weird for liking the stormtrooper army quite a bit now. The transport can look silly sometimes but it has an interesting gothic armored transport feel. It does feel somewhat like the imperial guard WWI-WWII era armory.

------------

I feel like it's not as groan-worthy of a theory as it was before but it's still pretty bad. The alpha and hydra are both alpha legion symbols somewhat. Going along with just alpha is quite the stretch but hydra as well for the beast on their shoulder pads seems a little more possible. Still seems way too obvious though.

Like I said before it'd be much better if they were loyalist till some stupid inquisitor ruined everybody's fun by probing the regiment and declaring them heretics without any substantial proof. It's not like inquisitors don't do that sort of thing. Then they'd go rogue as renegades and may even seek refuge with chaos or the tau as they'd die otherwise. It'd be more interesting if they went with chaos though.

I just think it'd make a lot more sense that rather than have guys infiltrating the ultramarines the alpha legion was incensed by the name and planned an ironic fate for them by becoming thralls to chaos.

Red armor, golden trim, with black fatigue, white casing on their hellguns and green lights.

Their symbol is a red square on white background.

I think the stormies look good when equipped with vendettas. Those metuhl bawkses they try to position as an APC are only fit for ork conversions, if any needed at all...

 Bobthehero wrote:
Red armor, golden trim, with black fatigue, white casing on their hellguns and green lights.

Their symbol is a red square on white background.

Funny , because red square on white background is called lizards/dragon eye here.

Makumba wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Red armor, golden trim, with black fatigue, white casing on their hellguns and green lights.

Their symbol is a red square on white background.

Funny , because red square on white background is called lizards/dragon eye here.

hydras are sort of lizard/dragons...oh seriously!?Every SINGLE thing about them except for colours are alpha legion related!?It couldn't be more obvious if they did this!
Smurf says:"who is in charge here?"
Hydra Sergeant:"I am.I'm Alpharius."
"Who is in charge of the platoon?"
"Alpharius".
....."who is in charge of the regiment"?
"Alpharius"

Yeah, it's so obvious they couldn't be cultists.
It would be like in one of those stupid movies where it's so obvious who the villain is, and no one is suspicious about it.

If they were cultists, they might as well have mustaches, so they can twiddling them while kicking puppies and burning down orphanages.

Not to mention how a bunch of cultists managed to get past all of the schola's screening processes. They are very thorough when it comes to paper work.
Now if it were 1 cultist...maybe. But a whole regiment of them? That's just silly.

I am not sure if someone has already pointed this out (sorry if someone has), but there is more stuff about the Alphas in the Codex Tempestus.

It is about the 32nd Thetoid Eagles: they fought a sustained campaign against a series of cultist uprisings attributed to the Alpha Legion. They eventually disappeared after seeing their command structure and Commisars killed: "after the ash had settled (...) the Thetoid Eagles had simply vanished from the system entirely".

To me, this prove that the writer knew about the Alphas, and it hints that he/she/it is actually an Alpha fanboy. I mean, the regiment disappears after all their leaders are killed?. Doesn´t sound heroic at all, it doesn´t seem to be aimed at your average Imperial player claiming "hey what a cool background, I will pick this regiment". It looks more like "Alphas are awesome and there is something going on between them and the Thetoid Eagles".

There is more: the Warwing symbol they use is odd: "dark whispers abound that the symbol has other, veiled meaning" (...) "The truth of this matter, as well as the wider concerns regarding the regiment´s recent record, have recently become the concern of alarmingly powerful Imperial bodies". I don´t know what they mean about the symbol, it means nothing to me.

Just like the symbol of the 55th Alphic Hydras: a red triangle. "it echoes a sigil from the DAoT that has been linked to the Hydras since their inception". No idea what they mean.

Another hint: we are given the name of the place where the Alphic Hydras have their training facilities: Mount Charas. Any of you heard that name before? Just asking.



Sooooo... I know think it is an easter egg. Good reason to read all the background section with care.

er... stringent requirements for the Schola? Really?

The requirement is essentially "Be an orphan."

Now, graduating and actually becoming a Stormtrooper/Commisar etc, has requirements, but getting in ain't hard.

This is incredibly silly. I have half a mind to make my eventual planned IG allies traitor-Alphic Hydras to go with my Alpha Legion and then act like it was a total coincidence.

"I just really like hydras, okay?"

heil Hydra