David Tran is the founder and CEO of Huy Fong Foods, the maker of the famously tasty Sriracha hot sauce. Grappling for months with regulators and politicians in southern California about the spicy scents that his factory emits, Tran recently compared meddlesome government to that of a communist country.
It might sound hyperbolic, but he does know a thing or two about living under the nightmarish bureaucracy of a red utopia. NPR explains that Tran "escaped" Socialist Republic of Vietnam and "its many intrusions" three decades ago to start a new life in The Land of the Free.
"Today, I feel almost the same. Even now, we live in [the] USA, and my feeling, the government, not a big difference," Tran said on Monday from his factory outside of Los Angeles.
It's not the first time he's spoken out about the issue. He previously accused the local government of hating him and wanting to shut him down and said that the Irwindale City Council acts like a "local king."
Last month the city council deemed the $80 million business a "public nuisance" for giving off a peppery odor. In 2013, the city sued Tran (despite lobbying to get him to move Huy Fong Foods there in the first place) and California's health regulators shut down the factory for thirty days based on specious claims.
Tran has received offers from public officials throughout the country that want to court Huy Fong Foods. Texas, which is far more business-friendly than California, has made the biggest push. But, because his peppers are grown locally, Tran said he won't move the current operation. He did indicate that he may open another factory elsewhere to meet the growing demand for the sauce.
Check out Reason TV's coverage of this saucy situation here:
They're fining him because the whole business of processing potent chilis is not as well controlled as they expected. There would've been statutes and regulations he would've been aware of going in, like, 'fumes should not be heavy enough to trigger X reaction with Y meters of facility.'
timetowaste85 wrote: So, wait...they requested he moved there, then tried to shut him down and fine him because he did as he was asked? California. Tis a silly place.
They tried to move him there to create jobs. He did, but the process of grinding chilis also effectively pepper sprayed entire communities nearby. The council wanted him to try to capture the stuff that was escaping during the cooking process. The council didn't plan well when they asked him to move, but his temper tantrums and "why don't you just kill me" rants are equally inane.
timetowaste85 wrote: So, wait...they requested he moved there, then tried to shut him down and fine him because he did as he was asked? California. Tis a silly place.
They tried to move him there to create jobs. He did, but the process of grinding chilis also effectively pepper sprayed entire communities nearby.
Indeed. Tobasco is made on its own island. Years ago, if you got near it, as in within a few miles, you would start to feel it. I don't know if that has changed.
timetowaste85 wrote: So, wait...they requested he moved there, then tried to shut him down and fine him because he did as he was asked? California. Tis a silly place.
They tried to move him there to create jobs. He did, but the process of grinding chilis also effectively pepper sprayed entire communities nearby.
Indeed. Tobasco is made on its own island. Years ago, if you got near it, as in within a few miles, you would start to feel it. I don't know if that has changed.
I'm growing hot peppers this year to try to make my own sauce. I have a respirator, goggles and gloves all ready to go. I still feel underprepared.
Medium of Death wrote: So the attempts to contain the irritants has failed or has the company not even bothered trying?
The 30 day shutdown was supposed to be time to put the filters in place. From the continuance of this issue, I assume they either failed or that no attempt was made.
Why not run the story as "California stands by local home owners". The articles "Texas, which is far more business-friendly than California" made me laugh. As if not wanting people to be exposed to irritants or substances that cause harm to their health makes you less business friendly and as if that would be a bad thing anyway.
timetowaste85 wrote: So, wait...they requested he moved there, then tried to shut him down and fine him because he did as he was asked? California. Tis a silly place.
They tried to move him there to create jobs. He did, but the process of grinding chilis also effectively pepper sprayed entire communities nearby.
Indeed. Tobasco is made on its own island. Years ago, if you got near it, as in within a few miles, you would start to feel it. I don't know if that has changed.
I think it was 'Modern Marvels' or some other Discovery channel show that did an episode about hot sauces, and went inside the Tabasco plant. The fumes from vinegar and other ingredients in the air are so prevalent that their forklifts go from 'factory new' to 'corroded to the point of disintegration' in three years.
Why not run the story as "California stands by local home owners". The articles "Texas, which is far more business-friendly than California" made me laugh. As if not wanting people to be exposed to irritants or substances that cause harm to their health makes you less business friendly and as if that would be a bad thing anyway.
Well yeah, it does. I mean if some place let corporations summarily execute anyone they deemed a threat to their business plan would strictly speaking, be more business friendly than a place that didn't.
Starts another plant in Texas. Five years later when he acquire enough locally grown peppers there he moves the entire operation to Texas costing California more jobs
On one hand, this reminds me of a story I heard in the news recently about how people like to move out to the country where it is quieter, and then complain about the manure smell coming from the nearby farms (you know, that whole "fresh country smell").
Anyway, I'm not a big fan of Sriracha. I prefer Frank's Red Hot (has flavor I like).
Once again hotsauceman1 is bring to the forums attention that he loves hot cock sauce. *( and I'm bring the forums attention to the fact i cannot spell or grammar )
Frazzled wrote:Great another Californian bringing their hippy tree hugger culture to God's country.
The Sriracha God cares not from whence the sauce flows, only that it flows.
Tannhauser42 wrote:Anyway, I'm not a big fan of Sriracha. I prefer Frank's Red Hot (has flavor I like).
I like them both on different things. I can't imagine buffalo chicken wings without Frank's. On the other hand, if it's breaded chicken, I like it with Sriracha.
Frazzled wrote: Great another Californian bringing their hippy tree hugger culture to God's country.
You know the drought started when Californians really started coming to Texas. They're turning us into Barstow!!!
Out here, we call it Barstool.
Automatically Appended Next Post: We have a rendering plant that was way out in the willy whacks for decades processing road kill and other dead animals.
People decided it would be a great idea to head out to the country and build $200,000 houses right next to the place. Strangely enough, they decided they didn't like the smell and filed a law suit, forcing the business to spend millions on a move from the plant it had run for 30+ years.
Tannhauser42 wrote: On one hand, this reminds me of a story I heard in the news recently about how people like to move out to the country where it is quieter, and then complain about the manure smell coming from the nearby farms (you know, that whole "fresh country smell").
Anyway, I'm not a big fan of Sriracha. I prefer Frank's Red Hot (has flavor I like).
I think what you're talking about is some recent conflicts between housing developments that have gone up, and pig farms that were there previously, and I will admit, the pig farm was there first, but when you're down wind of one, good god, the stench. I'd thought mucking horse stalls in 100 degree heat and high humidty had been awful, but a pig farm, especially a big commercials one, is its own special grade of hellishly awful.
Also, the houses might've gone up what seemed like a safe distance away, with winds generally leaving them upwind, so it seemed generally okay, but you get a strong wind to carry it and that stink will go for miles.
I like them both on different things. I can't imagine buffalo chicken wings without Frank's.
It is the base for pretty much every generic buffalo sauce in this country, and probably most others, so I would be surprised if someone didn't find it palatable at the very least.
timetowaste85 wrote: So, wait...they requested he moved there, then tried to shut him down and fine him because he did as he was asked? California. Tis a silly place.
They tried to move him there to create jobs. He did, but the process of grinding chilis also effectively pepper sprayed entire communities nearby.
Indeed. Tobasco is made on its own island. Years ago, if you got near it, as in within a few miles, you would start to feel it. I don't know if that has changed.
I'm growing hot peppers this year to try to make my own sauce. I have a respirator, goggles and gloves all ready to go. I still feel underprepared.
Whoa
I'm all about both Sriracha and Frank's Red Hot Sauce. As Ouze says, I like them on different things.
But I will buy Sriracha wherever they make it... an island might not be a bad idea
Honestly I am kinda offended by all the hate to California you guys obviously (especially people from Texas) but really this guy could move his facility a couple miles. Honestly im not gonna argue for or against this sauce problem I like the stuff and hate to see it go!
But shame on you for hating CA just because of stereotypes you dont know gak about this state and how important it is not only to the country but the world! Hell we produce 10 to 25 percent of the worlds agriculture dont believe look it up!
Also lots of other countries use this site way to make America look devided and ignorant!
zombiekila707 wrote: Honestly I am kinda offended by all the hate to California you guys obviously (especially people from Texas) but really this guy could move his facility a couple miles. Honestly im not gonna argue for or against this sauce problem I like the stuff and hate to see it go!
But shame on you for hating CA just because of stereotypes you dont know gak about this state and how important it is not only to the country but the world! Hell we produce 10 to 25 percent of the worlds agriculture dont believe look it up!
Also lots of other countries use this site way to make America look devided and ignorant!
Dude, Chill pill, we make fun of texans and New Yorkers ALOT to
Jihadin wrote: Ever smell a Fish Sauce factory? Sircacha is nothing to it.
It's not about the smell, it's about the fact that you're essentially walking around in pepper spray.
Sounds delicious.
And Zombiekila? Relax. We bust on every state when it does something stupid. Today it happens to be your state. It's not being disrespectful to bash on everyone, it's disrespectful to exclude certain places/people from bashing. If we made fun of every state except California, we'd be intolerant. Instead we make fun of every state. Git your big-boy britches on, and join in the fun.
zombiekila707 wrote: Honestly I am kinda offended by all the hate to California you guys obviously (especially people from Texas) but really this guy could move his facility a couple miles. Honestly im not gonna argue for or against this sauce problem I like the stuff and hate to see it go!
But shame on you for hating CA just because of stereotypes you dont know gak about this state and how important it is not only to the country but the world! Hell we produce 10 to 25 percent of the worlds agriculture dont believe look it up!
Also lots of other countries use this site way to make America look devided and ignorant!
My experience with Californians has all been the same. I meet them, they seem friendly and intelligent, and I inevitably mention that every Californian I've met believes there are no beaches in American except for in California. They then look at me like I'm stupid and tell me that of course there are no American beaches outside of California. I tell them that there are. There is even a beach not ten miles from us. They then (without exception) tell me I'm either wrong or lying. Two of them have even gone on to ask me if I'm trying to trick them.
I think that if I had a large number of Californians wanting to move to my area, I'd oppose it too.
zombiekila707 wrote: Honestly I am kinda offended by all the hate to California you guys obviously (especially people from Texas) but really this guy could move his facility a couple miles. Honestly im not gonna argue for or against this sauce problem I like the stuff and hate to see it go!
But shame on you for hating CA just because of stereotypes you dont know gak about this state and how important it is not only to the country but the world! Hell we produce 10 to 25 percent of the worlds agriculture dont believe look it up!
Also lots of other countries use this site way to make America look devided and ignorant!
My experience with Californians has all been the same. I meet them, they seem friendly and intelligent, and I inevitably mention that every Californian I've met believes there are no beaches in American except for in California. They then look at me like I'm stupid and tell me that of course there are no American beaches outside of California. I tell them that there are. There is even a beach not ten miles from us. They then (without exception) tell me I'm either wrong or lying. Two of them have even gone on to ask me if I'm trying to trick them.
I think that if I had a large number of Californians wanting to move to my area, I'd oppose it too.
Well, Jim, there are no beaches outside of California. What the rest of America has are stretches of accumulated sand on their shoreline on which various beach like activities take place but they aren't true beaches. Real beaches have water contaminated by raw sewage, trash lining the ocean floors just off the coast and Oil Rigs in sight. God, you non-Californians are missing out.
As for the topic... why not just install the air scrubbers, apologize to the community and just take the loss?
zombiekila707 wrote: Honestly I am kinda offended by all the hate to California you guys obviously (especially people from Texas) but really this guy could move his facility a couple miles. Honestly im not gonna argue for or against this sauce problem I like the stuff and hate to see it go!
Isn't "I'm offended' the new state motto in California?
But shame on you for hating CA just because of stereotypes you dont know gak about this state and how important it is not only to the country but the world! Hell we produce 10 to 25 percent of the worlds agriculture dont believe look it up!
Oh boy! As much as I enjoy avocado, I'm sure we'd be just fine in Ohio without you. ;-).
Also lots of other countries use this site way to make America look devided and ignorant!
Yes. We certainly wouldn't want to look DIVIDED or ignorant, would we.
My experience with Californians has all been the same. I meet them, they seem friendly and intelligent, and I inevitably mention that every Californian I've met believes there are no beaches in American except for in California. They then look at me like I'm stupid and tell me that of course there are no American beaches outside of California. I tell them that there are. There is even a beach not ten miles from us. They then (without exception) tell me I'm either wrong or lying. Two of them have even gone on to ask me if I'm trying to trick them.
I think that if I had a large number of Californians wanting to move to my area, I'd oppose it too.
In their defense the "beaches" in the Midwest pale in comparison to the coastal beaches in California.
As for the topic... why not just install the air scrubbers, apologize to the community and just take the loss?
Thing is, I think that it may be too little too late... or it'd take so long to take effect (it may actually be working, those new filters)... I mean if the pepper particulates are as pervading as it would seem, then, like the Military training "CS Gas" that we use in the gas chambers, once its out, there really aint much that can be done about it.
Right, but the issue at hand is the factory's immediate closure to solve the community's issues with the particulates and whether this should be done or not. If the community will not get relieved either way, why not just let the factory continue operation while they research better air filters?
TheCustomLime wrote: Right, but the issue at hand is the factory's immediate closure to solve the community's issues with the particulates and whether this should be done or not. If the community will not get relieved either way, why not just let the factory continue operation while they research better air filters?
Because if the factory closes the community knows it will eventually receive relief, if the factory researches better air filters (assuming they are ever actually installed) there is no such guarantee; or even a reliable timetable.
I like them both on different things. I can't imagine buffalo chicken wings without Frank's.
It is the base for pretty much every generic buffalo sauce in this country, and probably most others, so I would be surprised if someone didn't find it palatable at the very least.
You can't even buy Franks in Australia unless you either find a specialty store that sells imported food or import it yourself.
Once I found out about Buffalo wings and wanted to make my own, you know how hard it was trying to find that gak?
There's actually very little American food that makes it outside of America through normal distribution.
zombiekila707 wrote: Honestly I am kinda offended by all the hate to California you guys obviously (especially people from Texas) but really this guy could move his facility a couple miles. Honestly im not gonna argue for or against this sauce problem I like the stuff and hate to see it go!
But shame on you for hating CA just because of stereotypes you dont know gak about this state and how important it is not only to the country but the world! Hell we produce 10 to 25 percent of the worlds agriculture dont believe look it up!
Also lots of other countries use this site way to make America look devided and ignorant!
My experience with Californians has all been the same. I meet them, they seem friendly and intelligent, and I inevitably mention that every Californian I've met believes there are no beaches in American except for in California. They then look at me like I'm stupid and tell me that of course there are no American beaches outside of California. I tell them that there are. There is even a beach not ten miles from us. They then (without exception) tell me I'm either wrong or lying. Two of them have even gone on to ask me if I'm trying to trick them.
I think that if I had a large number of Californians wanting to move to my area, I'd oppose it too.
You haven't heard of this game? Longest record time is 10 hours.
But I can't really believe you. Anyone who's ever watched a late-night, spring-break-themed, 80's T-n-A comedy knows that Florida has beaches, too. And that's everybody, right?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Where do they think Revenge of the Nerds 2 took place? Mars?
zombiekila707 wrote: you guys are right im just gonna use Dakka Dakka for what its for questions about rules for 40k, looking at models, finding local games...
Not gonna hear a bunch of Inbreed donkey-caves give me gak!
HELL I LISTEN TO TUPAC YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID!
DIVIDED!
You might want to simply stay away from the Off Topic section. It does not appear to align with your tender sensibilities.
zombiekila707 wrote: you guys are right im just gonna use Dakka Dakka for what its for questions about rules for 40k, looking at models, finding local games...
Not gonna hear a bunch of Inbreed donkey-caves give me gak!
HELL I LISTEN TO TUPAC YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID!
DIVIDED!
Yeah, I would recommend staying away from the OT forum if this is your response.
Seriously, I can't even understand your penultimate sentence.
zombiekila707 wrote: Honestly I am kinda offended by all the hate to California you guys obviously (especially people from Texas) but really this guy could move his facility a couple miles. Honestly im not gonna argue for or against this sauce problem I like the stuff and hate to see it go!
But shame on you for hating CA just because of stereotypes you dont know gak about this state and how important it is not only to the country but the world! Hell we produce 10 to 25 percent of the worlds agriculture dont believe look it up!
Also lots of other countries use this site way to make America look devided and ignorant!
Yes, and California manages to produce all that despite, not because of, all the legislation crap we have to put up with.
I live in California and I think the state deserves most of the crap people give it.
Indeed. The Non-native is the truly jaw dropping part.
Most of the time, we're spending money trying to eradicate non-natives. Why are we protecting a fish that is both non-native and has no value economically.
Its just trying to spite the people that feed you because you can.
Grey Templar wrote: Most of the time, we're spending money trying to eradicate non-natives.
That's a bit harsh... I mean, most of even the craziest in Arizona and Texas just want to build a huge wall. Some of you guys REAAAAALLLLY don't like "non-natives" do ya?
zombiekila707 wrote: you guys are right im just gonna use Dakka Dakka for what its for questions about rules for 40k, looking at models, finding local games...
Not gonna hear a bunch of Inbreed donkey-caves give me gak!
HELL I LISTEN TO TUPAC YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID!
DIVIDED!
I have no idea what just happened. Also, Tupac is over rated.
What happened was our new member with single digit posts started crying because we made fun of California. It was hilarious. He rage-quit the off topic area of the board.
zombiekila707 wrote: Honestly I am kinda offended by all the hate to California you guys obviously (especially people from Texas) but really this guy could move his facility a couple miles. Honestly im not gonna argue for or against this sauce problem I like the stuff and hate to see it go!
But shame on you for hating CA just because of stereotypes you dont know gak about this state and how important it is not only to the country but the world! Hell we produce 10 to 25 percent of the worlds agriculture dont believe look it up!
Also lots of other countries use this site way to make America look devided and ignorant!
It's not my fault that Texas just happens to be the best state in the Union...
on topic:
I love Siriacha! It's a shame this is causing issues though. Hopefully this can get resolved in a manner that pleases everyone.
Edit: I'm also pretty sure California doesn't produce 10-25% of the worlds total Agriculture.... I think it produces somewhere around 80% of the Almonds to the world though.
Frazzled wrote: Great another Californian bringing their hippy tree hugger culture to God's country.
You know the drought started when Californians really started coming to Texas. They're turning us into Barstow!!!
One would think that a LOCALLY GROWN AND PROCESSED product would appeal to them...
If they can close down this plant for noxious fumes, why cant they close down every rock concert ever, as well as every MTG tournament.... pot fumes and noxious BO that can be felt miles away...
hotsauceman1 wrote: you are from Ohio and a conservative, yu are supposed to hate the hippity hop.
Now Biggy Smalls....
Please.
Tupac was an incredibly important hip hop artist for a multitude of reasons, the least of which being that he was very good.
Or perhaps you'd like to talk about KRS-One? Or Del? Or Slick Rick? Or maybe something a bit more contemporary like MosDef, Gang Starr, People Under the Stairs, or the. Wu?
Don't presume that simply because you're from California that you know more about hip hop than I do, or that because I'm fiscally conservative I'm not allowed to listen to it.
I will let you know how the Grieves concert is on the 22nd if you'd like, however.
zombiekila707 wrote: Honestly I am kinda offended by all the hate to California you guys obviously (especially people from Texas) but really this guy could move his facility a couple miles. Honestly im not gonna argue for or against this sauce problem I like the stuff and hate to see it go!
But shame on you for hating CA just because of stereotypes you dont know gak about this state and how important it is not only to the country but the world! Hell we produce 10 to 25 percent of the worlds agriculture dont believe look it up!
Also lots of other countries use this site way to make America look devided and ignorant!
Yes, we do....
In the Bread Basket, also known as the Mid-West, also known as North Dakota, The Lesser Dakota, Minnesota, Montana, and a couple other states that shall not be named.
Every time I've been to California, I found it highly over-rated. Too busy, too crowded, and EVERYONE thinks they are a beautifuler and uniquer snowflake than you.....
On topic, I really hope that everything gets sorted out. I loves me some Sriracha.
Me against the world. Don killuminati. All eyez on me.
Three pretty universally lauded fantastic albums. Other very good individual tracks spread out over other albums. Huge influence on west coast hip hop as a whole.
i hate to say this but yeah California's state government is messed up and the central valley cant get water not because of the fish ordeal but because of the fact that 75 percent of our states water goes to southern California to the dirty gak hole in L.A truly the fish crap is just used for political backing and most people from CA actually don't realize that we are wasting our water feed south california.
Not saying CA should abandon LA or anything but we need to buy more water from other states.
And yeah I know we in debt and such.
What I i find stupid and offensive is the stereotype CA gets.
LA is NOT taking 75% of the State's total water. Agriculture actually does that, but we actually need agriculture to have that water. Unlike those stupid LA'ers watering their lawns and washing their cars.
Though maybe I'm just too old for it these days....
Waiting in line the amusement park. Come pay several hundred dollars to wait in line or be on your way to wait in the next line! Hours and hours of standing around doing feth all while your kids bug you about when they'll get to ride the 5 minute rides!
Meh at least we have decent weed and yeah i guess a good percentage of people from CA are idiots, but I've been to other states and cause of these stereotypes I am harassed all the time either they think i put myself on a high horse and talk mad gak about the states.
But I have talked to the farmers who are in the central valley hell i was a farmer for a bit or worked on a farm like i said people don't get how much water is burned to help with the cities down south.
Hey and southern hospitality only works in Texas I think Texas is great they all seem nice treat me with respect. BUT GEORGIA been there 4 times each time almost got into a fight cause i am from CA.
one time i just got into a fight for talking to a chick at a bar the guy didn't even know her just straight up hated to see a guy from CA getting some.
I may be over reacting to all this and to be honest nothing on this form is gonna effect my life sorry for being so defensive
Also the beaches i live by suck they are not soft sand but harsh jagged rock only southern California has good beaches.
Well i kinda i have some beef with Disney at this point they are a hive fleet eating up all that i love (star wars, marvel) and i find that if you take your kids somewhere take them somewhere local there are theme parks all over.
I GOTZ TO LEAVE THIS THREAD OR ME EyEz WILL EXPLODED!
zombiekila707 wrote: Well i kinda i have some beef with Disney at this point they are a hive fleet eating up all that i love (star wars, marvel) and i find that if you take your kids somewhere take them somewhere local there are theme parks all over.
I GOTZ TO LEAVE THIS THREAD OR ME EyEz WILL EXPLODED!
If disney never got star wars or marvel, we wouldnt be getting the movies from them.
zombiekila707 wrote: Well i kinda i have some beef with Disney at this point they are a hive fleet eating up all that i love (star wars, marvel) and i find that if you take your kids somewhere take them somewhere local there are theme parks all over.
I GOTZ TO LEAVE THIS THREAD OR ME EyEz WILL EXPLODED!
Then please...by all means stay in. If your eyes explode, you won't be able to see to type again. I'm gonna forgo rule #1... As you're just an obnoxious troll, and you don't seem to have any showing of being a positive addition. If you decide to leave, you won't be missed.
Never will I ever be caught dead in Cali.
Its on its way Detroit style down the tube
It's interesting how popular conceptions can differ so much from economic reality. California has the 10th highest median income of all US states. And while there might be a narrative that that's in decline, that income has grown by more than 9% since 2004, which is the 12th best performance of any state.
In that time, Oregon, Montana, Washington, Michigan, Arizona and Florida have all declined in household income... and yet none seem to attract that 'going to the dogs' narrative that California attracts.
See, this is why generalizations are not reliable. California is huge. It's almost two very different states separated by vast swathes of inhospitable cow country. The culture is different. The dialect is different. The cuisine is different. Even the definite article is used differently vis-a-vis freeways.
It's interesting how popular conceptions can differ so much from economic reality. California has the 10th highest median income of all US states.
It used to be 7th. It has one of the highest unemployment rates in the USA now. There has been a middle class drain out for decades now.
And while there might be a narrative that that's in decline, that income has grown by more than 9% since 2004, which is the 12th best performance of any state.
Cough Texas laughs Cough
In that time, Oregon, Montana, Washington, Michigan, Arizona and Florida have all declined in household income... and yet none seem to attract that 'going to the dogs' narrative that California attracts.
Because they aren't. Ok maybe Michigan.
Get outside of the Hollywood glitz and techie part of SF and you have an imploding middle class there, with some of the higest taxes and costs of living anywhere.
Not to mention the 100,000 or so gang members in LA.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
soundwave591 wrote: well here in Utah, everyone says cali is on the decline because it seems like every new neighbor is from there. Literally every single one.
Its a plague. Like locusts they have culled their fair land and are now moving onto to new areas to obliterate.
Taco Bell, In and Out these are the signs of the Apocalypse I tells ya!
In that time, Oregon, Montana, Washington, Michigan, Arizona and Florida have all declined in household income... and yet none seem to attract that 'going to the dogs' narrative that California attracts.
Let's be real, most people consider those states to be crap holes to begin with.
Oregon has never really had much of anything, except stoners and rain.
Montana is full of crazy right-wing militia groups.
Washington State outside of Seattle might as well not exist.
Michigan? Detroit is like the poster child for "going to the dogs".
Arizona... oh poor Arizona. You want to be a real state, so badly. But Phoenix's attempt to be a new tech city crumbled like the water reserves after the golf courses went in.
Florida? Florida is such a joke it even has its own Twitter!
Well lets be fair here. San Fran just grabs California by the ankles and drags the whole state half way into cartoon land.
Yep. Leave the cities and you'll find plenty of conservatives. Hell, come to Los Angeles and you'll find enough of them around here if you can actually get past all the damned cars and gang bangers.
Remember folks, painting a massive group of people in a huge geopolitical entity with a broad brush is inaccurate at best.
Frazzled wrote: Except of course. conservatives have absolutely no power in California.
True. It's because of all of the Hispanics here that both dominate the voter base and mostly seem to vote Democratic. I can understand why, though, most Republicans seem to hate us non-white folks.
Let's be real, most people consider those states to be crap holes to begin with.
Oregon has never really had much of anything, except stoners and rain.
Washington State outside of Seattle might as well not exist.
You speak of things you clearly no next to nothing about....
Oregon is actually one of the top exporters of electronic components and microchip (usually going to China or other Asian countries). Our logging industry is still among the tops in the country. Fishing and agriculture do well enough to sustain the state as well as provide another outlet for goods. The thing with Oregon's economy is because so much of the state's economy is tied to so few large companies that if they dip, the state really dips. What happens to Nike, HP, Intel and the like in Wall Street are magnified even greater within the state.
Washington has 2 of the top 10 ports in the US (yes, one of them is Seattle) but Washington also has huge manufacturing capabilities for companies like Boeing. So while certainly, much of the economic success/failure of the state is centered around the Puget Sound area, there is much more to the state than just Seattle.
Frazzled wrote: Except of course. conservatives have absolutely no power in California.
True. It's because of all of the Hispanics here that both dominate the voter base and mostly seem to vote Democratic. I can understand why, though, most Republicans seem to hate us non-white folks.
Frazzled wrote: Except of course. conservatives have absolutely no power in California.
True. It's because of all of the Hispanics here that both dominate the voter base and mostly seem to vote Democratic. I can understand why, though, most Republicans seem to hate us non-white folks.
Only the illegal ones.
Well, Republicans are very against State Welfare and most programs that would heavily benefit minority groups. Democrats want expansions of these programs so it makes sense that the Minority populations would want them in power. You vote for them, you get food to feed your starving baby.
No, but in California the democrats obtain a large portion of their voter base from the urban working class which is dominantly non-white. This demographic is large in the urban centers of California especially Los Angeles. They also get it from college age and college eductated adults, admittedly, which are also common in urban centers.
So, more accurately, California is highly democratic because of its dominantly urban population. This includes working class individuals who vote for the Democrats in hopes of a better future fot themselves and educated youth to change percieved issues.
Remember folks, painting a massive group of people in a huge geopolitical entity with a broad brush is inaccurate at best.
TheCustomLime wrote: I can understand why, though, most Republicans seem to hate us non-white folks.
Ummm....
That's different because they are they and not us!
That's fair enough. I would like to redact that statement and replace it with "A few of the most vocal members of the Republican Party seem to dislike non whites while most, being conservative by nature, seek policies that go against the interests of the working class which, at least on California, has a good amount of non whites. These conservative policies are not overtly racist but can seem that way when considering their ramifications on the social and economic well being of minority groups."
Well, Republicans are very against State Welfare and most programs that would heavily benefit minority groups. Democrats want expansions of these programs so it makes sense that the Minority populations would want them in power. You vote for them, you get food to feed your starving baby.
Well, Republicans are very against State Welfare and most programs that would heavily benefit minority groups. Democrats want expansions of these programs so it makes sense that the Minority populations would want them in power. You vote for them, you get food to feed your starving baby.
Don't get it twisted: the Democratic party wants the minority votes. They don't actually care about the expansions of the programs beyond that so they can continue to keep their voter base.
So, more accurately, California is highly democratic because of its dominantly urban population. This includes working class individuals who vote for the Democrats in hopes of a better future fot themselves and educated youth to change percieved issues.
So why do the working class in non-urban centers vote differently?
So, more accurately, California is highly democratic because of its dominantly urban population. This includes working class individuals who vote for the Democrats in hopes of a better future fot themselves and educated youth to change percieved issues.
I have given up n trying to change issues radically. Things will change at aa snails pace, as it should
TheCustomLime wrote: They also get it from college age and college eductated adults, admittedly, which are also common in urban centers.
And the other parties get plenty of votes from college educated adults.
"In 2012, Obama won voters without a high school education by a 64-35 margin and voters with graduate degrees 55-42, while Romney narrowly won four-year college graduates.
I had a lot of sex for 12 years without making a baby. Its SHOCKINGLY easy to not get a girl pregnant.
Oh, so now you are saying they have to go against their religion and have to use birth control, shame on you. Dont you know that having babies is the only thing that gives their live meaning?
When's the breaking point on supporting the minority outweighs the support of the program. You have to give an incentive for those to get out of the program.
I had a lot of sex for 12 years without making a baby. Its SHOCKINGLY easy to not get a girl pregnant.
Oh, so now you are saying they have to go against their religion and have to use birth control, shame on you. Dont you know that having babies is the only thing that gives their live meaning?
I'm Catholic. My wife is even more Catholic. We figured it out.
Y'know. Im trying to make my arguments as non-sensical as possible. That says one thing. The Nonsense arguments are the same as the usual ones.
Or you cant detect sarcasm like usual
hotsauceman1 wrote: Y'know. Im trying to make my arguments as non-sensical as possible. That says one thing. The Nonsense arguments are the same as the usual ones.
Or you cant detect sarcasm like usual
We've discussed this. You're very bad at sarcasm. It's sorta hard to detect poor sarcasm through writing. Even moreso through poor writing.
)
Some of you guys REAAAAALLLLY don't like "non-natives" do ya? 
