So, all the primarchs get the chance to go toe to toe per heresy. 1v1 matches were the winners advance and the losers duke it out .

Who would come out on top? Who is second? Third? Who then comes in last?

Aragon is the angrist guy in universe, and former gladiator with duel chain axes.....

This is him at home....deranged bloody close combat

Well, pre-heresy, no question vulkan would win.

He cant die, and is phsyically stronger than the others. Its a slight advantage.


Magus is also a top teir contender, assuming he makes use of his psychic powers judiciously.

If your talking about swordplay, Fulgrim, guilliman, sangy, and horus are the top contenders.

Eihnlazer wrote:
Well, pre-heresy, no question vulkan would win.

He cant die, and is phsyically stronger than the others. Its a slight advantage.


Magus is also a top teir contender, assuming he makes use of his psychic powers judiciously.

If your talking about swordplay, Fulgrim, guilliman, sangy, and horus are the top contenders.

I agree with Magnus, most powerful Primarch. Look at what an unarmed(er as much as a psycher can be I guess) emotionally and spiritually broken Magnus did to Russ, let alone the titans.

I hadn't thought about Vulkan though, he kind of cheats in a to the death battle

It comes down to Vulkan and Magnus.

And Vulkan can just wait until Magnus exhausts himself.

well let's stipulate that the fights are to the first death, so Vulkan can't just keep coming back. In that case Magnus wins due to his psychic powers. If we further stipulate no (overt) psychic powers, but rather melee combat, then I believe Angron would win, followed by Horus in second place, and Sanguinius in third. Those three are typically mentioned as the top dogs in terms of personal combat, though the order is uncertain. This is my take on it, though.

Last is Lorgar, who was the weakest of the primarchs pre-heresy.

Aragorn is powerful, brutal, maybe his sheer aggressive nature could be used against him. He,s not fully stable.

Others may be more tactical than he is though.

jhe90 wrote:
Aragorn is powerful, brutal

Aragorn really isn't.

tgjensen wrote:
well let's stipulate that the fights are to the first death, so Vulkan can't just keep coming back. In that case Magnus wins due to his psychic powers. If we further stipulate no (overt) psychic powers, but rather melee combat, then I believe Angron would win, followed by Horus in second place, and Sanguinius in third. Those three are typically mentioned as the top dogs in terms of personal combat, though the order is uncertain. This is my take on it, though.

Last is Lorgar, who was the weakest of the primarchs pre-heresy.

"If Mike Tyson had both hands tied behind his back and weights attached to his feet Peewee Herman could totally take him in a fight."

 Kain wrote:
"If Mike Tyson had both hands tied behind his back and weights attached to his feet Peewee Herman could totally take him in a fight."

OP is free to correct me, but most of these topics are about prowess in melee and so those restrictions make sense. Nobody cares that Vulkan would eventually win because he can't die; that's trivial.

 Kain wrote:
It comes down to Vulkan and Magnus.

And Vulkan can just wait until Magnus exhausts himself.

Or Magnus could crush Vulkan's mind like a grape fruit.

Lorgar or Magnus should be able to take out Vulkan with their psychic abilities.

And I frankly don't buy "Vulkan is the physically strongest Primarch". He at the very least has a rival in Ferrus Manus.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Kain wrote:
It comes down to Vulkan and Magnus.

And Vulkan can just wait until Magnus exhausts himself.

Or Magnus could crush Vulkan's mind like a grape fruit.

Lorgar or Magnus should be able to take out Vulkan with their psychic abilities.

And I frankly don't buy "Vulkan is the physically strongest Primarch". He at the very least has a rival in Ferrus Manus.

Where the hell have you been man?

I missed you.

I lose interest in Dakka every now and then (And I haven't read a single 40k-related thing save things I am linked to in months) and stop posting for a while, only to come back.

I can say the same here.

I've lost a lot of faith in the game itself, but I'm already kind of heavily tied to Dakka so I always come back in.

Strongest I think is Ferrus, he had hands/lower asrms coated in what I think in necron metal, and one of phisicaly largest.

And necron metal is armour in itself

Is it that time of the week again?

Russ was the only one to have ever defeated Horus in single combat (a training match, I believe).
But it really depends on the kind of contest. If it's a fencing match with strictly enforced "fairness" rules, then Fulgrim or Sanguinius. If it's unarmed combat, Russ, Angron or Ferrus. If it's armed combat with fewer or no rules, then Horus, Rus or Magnus.

Also, completely disregarding the BL series.

Bran Dawri wrote:

Russ was the only one to have ever defeated Horus in single combat (a training match, I believe).

Source?

Vulkan and Magnus are pretty much the only two that matter. The question is how the hell either party wins.

 Kain wrote:
I can say the same here.

I've lost a lot of faith in the game itself, but I'm already kind of heavily tied to Dakka so I always come back in.

I tend to take a vacation every time one of those damn "genitalia" threads shows up in 40K Background. We might have to forcibly drag Dakka's head out of the gutter eventually.

If Perpetuals can be killed by a strong enough Psyker could Magnus permanently kill Vulkan?

Sanguinius is the best swordsman IMO. He is also one the stronger ones and he can FLY. Lol.

Let's make it more specific- to first death, no psyhcic attacks (buffing themselves is fine!)
Gladiator ring with a really high roof and lots of "terrain" guns are allowed!

 raiden wrote:
Sanguinius is the best swordsman IMO. He is also one the stronger ones and he can FLY. Lol.

Let's make it more specific- to first death, no psyhcic attacks (buffing themselves is fine!)
Gladiator ring with a really high roof and lots of "terrain" guns are allowed!

Except the entire point of Magnus is being a psyker powerhouse. You can't call it a "Primarch Battle Royale", implying the most powerful and best Primarch will win, you have to call it "Primarch Battle Royale with very silly, pointless, and incredibly arbitrary rules to specifically spite one opponent".

Strongest is between vulkan, purturabo and ferris.
Vulkan once pushed a stormlord backwards a few metres.

That's not particularly impressive to be honest.

Angron picked a mountain up off of him one time.

Primarch power depends heavily on the writer.

Bran Dawri wrote:
Is it that time of the week again?

Russ was the only one to have ever defeated Horus in single combat (a training match, I believe).
But it really depends on the kind of contest. If it's a fencing match with strictly enforced "fairness" rules, then Fulgrim or Sanguinius. If it's unarmed combat, Russ, Angron or Ferrus. If it's armed combat with fewer or no rules, then Horus, Rus or Magnus.

Also, completely disregarding the BL series.

Nah, that thing gets brought up all the time and nobody ever has the source. Its just a bit of fanfiction that has circulated enough for people to believe it was legit.

 PrehistoricUFO wrote:

jhe90 wrote:
Aragorn is powerful, brutal

Aragorn really isn't.

yeah, but... viggo mortensen!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
corax.

 Wyzilla wrote:
very silly, pointless, and incredibly arbitrary rules to specifically spite one opponent".

So the Council of Nikaea, then?

EDIT: As an Alpha Legion player, I feel it is my duty to make the obligatory "Alpharius would win because he would make the other Primarch realise that he is also Alpharius" joke.

Epic Fight of Ultimate Destiny or whatever wrote:Primarch: Alpharius I will kill you
Alpharius: No brother, you are the Alpharius
Primarch: *is Alpharius*

When it comes to a discussion of 'Who's the Besterest?" ground rules (arbitrary seeming or not) must be established, otherwise there is no criteria to base "Besterest" off of in the first place.

So it seems to me, that when it comes to "Besterest Everester" that you don't necessarily make rules that inhibit all or certain fighters, but instead make rules that enable such a battle to continue in some sort of linear fashion.

Ex: Someone said Sanguinus could win. Except that Horus killed him. Then the idea of "Well what about psychic powers?" Can't take that away because then where does that leave guys like Magnus? A "fair fight?" What is a "fair fight" anyways? Do you mean "fair" as in not taking hostages? Because Angron could lose a fight like that, even if it were just taking the nearby spectators hostage by not killing them. Or how about a "fair fight" where one could not damage or remove the other from his weapon of choice? Now Ferrus and probably Vulkan are in trouble. Not to mention the fact that, again, we've got a Primarch who has already met their demise (Ferrus Manus).

So you've gotta let it all out there and think realistically. Who would be at the end of a Primarch Battle Royal?

I say Magnus, right up to the point where someone like Mortarion unexpectedly resists his Psychic prowess with (post-heresy) Nurgle's Rot or some other foul concotion of decay that makes Mortarions very presence, both physical and psychic, unbearable. But that's just me, and just one of an infinite number of perspectives.

The argument there would be that Horus was all tanked up on Chaos juice, though.

I think horus would be strongest, being the whole warmaster guy, killing sanguinus and nearly killing the emperor.

But, at the same time the great wonderful and powerful Lion El'jonson was never at that final battle, and if I remember correctly was born fighting gigantic beast monsters. and later knocked out leman russ for being an donkey-cave.

so, according to the lore, horus was the strongest

according to my opinion, Lion el'jonson

Horus was never the strongest he beat sangy for two reasons.

1. Sangy was dead tired after the nonstop defense of Terra.
2. Horus was basicly possessed by the chaos gods and so several times stronger. Than normal

 Wyzilla wrote:
Vulkan and Magnus are pretty much the only two that matter. The question is how the hell either party wins.

 Kain wrote:
I can say the same here.

I've lost a lot of faith in the game itself, but I'm already kind of heavily tied to Dakka so I always come back in.

I tend to take a vacation every time one of those damn "genitalia" threads shows up in 40K Background. We might have to forcibly drag Dakka's head out of the gutter eventually.

The internet loves it's dicks. In every sense of the term.

everyone is talking about who's the strongest. that's not all that relevant, they're all superhumanly strong. any of the primarchs possesses enough raw strength to land a fatal blow on any other. the key is speed and skill in combat, not just power. after all, ya can't kill what ya can't hit. ferrus's big hammer might be impressive, but it'd be hard to recover quickly enough from swinging and missing fulgrim to avoid a blade through the neck, for example.

 Kain wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Vulkan and Magnus are pretty much the only two that matter. The question is how the hell either party wins.

 Kain wrote:
I can say the same here.

I've lost a lot of faith in the game itself, but I'm already kind of heavily tied to Dakka so I always come back in.

I tend to take a vacation every time one of those damn "genitalia" threads shows up in 40K Background. We might have to forcibly drag Dakka's head out of the gutter eventually.

The internet loves it's dicks. In every sense of the term.

As an aspiring biologist*, I find the anatomy of fictional genitalia quite interesting. Much more so than what they're used for.

EDIT: * I have to challenge everyone I meet to single combat. If I win, I sometimes grow a pair of safety goggles.

I think it would very much depend on who was drawn against who in some circumstances as much as anything else. Assuming pre-heresy with no Chaos trickery involved then a lot of the matches are fairly 50/50.

We know from canon that it was reckoned that the only Primarchs that could beat Angron going toe-to-toe would be Horus and possibly Sanguinius. However, that is just a straight up knife fight. I doubt Corax or Kurze would fight him in that fashion. They might beat him by striking from the shadows unexpectedly. However if they don't either kill him in that attack or successfully escape after making a pass then they are probably done for.

Similarly Magus is a really powerful psyker. However Angrons rage and sheer bloody-mindedness may allow him to throw of Magnus' psychic attacks.

Long story short we don't really know enough about all the primarchs pre-heresy to really make an informed decision.

If you plumped all of them in some kind of battlefield, all with their preferred gear and abilities, only the 18 of them?

Gotta say, either Horus(If he's high on Chaos juice) Sangy or Magnus.

He did beat an eldar titan in h2h combat once, remember?

 Dylanj94 wrote:
I think horus would be strongest, being the whole warmaster guy, killing sanguinus and nearly killing the emperor.

But, at the same time the great wonderful and powerful Lion El'jonson was never at that final battle, and if I remember correctly was born fighting gigantic beast monsters. and later knocked out leman russ for being an donkey-cave.

so, according to the lore, horus was the strongest

according to my opinion, Lion el'jonson

Horus only nearly killed the Emperor because the Emperor didn't want to kill his favorite son. Of actual power, Vulkan and Magnus would likely be the two most powerful primarchs. Hell TT wise Vulkan IS the most powerful primarch.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Dylanj94 wrote:
I think horus would be strongest, being the whole warmaster guy, killing sanguinus and nearly killing the emperor.

But, at the same time the great wonderful and powerful Lion El'jonson was never at that final battle, and if I remember correctly was born fighting gigantic beast monsters. and later knocked out leman russ for being an donkey-cave.

so, according to the lore, horus was the strongest

according to my opinion, Lion el'jonson

Horus only nearly killed the Emperor because the Emperor didn't want to kill his favorite son. Of actual power, Vulkan and Magnus would likely be the two most powerful primarchs. Hell TT wise Vulkan IS the most powerful primarch.

That's because Vulkan makes Mortarion look like a chump when it comes to the "not dying" department.

GDI.

Lorgar with invisibility is troll worthy though.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

Bran Dawri wrote:

Russ was the only one to have ever defeated Horus in single combat (a training match, I believe).

Source?

There isn't one, Russ admits himself in vengeful spirit he couldn't take out horus.

 Kain wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Dylanj94 wrote:
I think horus would be strongest, being the whole warmaster guy, killing sanguinus and nearly killing the emperor.

But, at the same time the great wonderful and powerful Lion El'jonson was never at that final battle, and if I remember correctly was born fighting gigantic beast monsters. and later knocked out leman russ for being an donkey-cave.

so, according to the lore, horus was the strongest

according to my opinion, Lion el'jonson

Horus only nearly killed the Emperor because the Emperor didn't want to kill his favorite son. Of actual power, Vulkan and Magnus would likely be the two most powerful primarchs. Hell TT wise Vulkan IS the most powerful primarch.

That's because Vulkan makes Mortarion look like a chump when it comes to the "not dying" department.

GDI.

Lorgar with invisibility is troll worthy though.

Also, I just remembered that Curze can't be counted out too easily. Same with Lorgar. Curze survived in the mantle of Nostramo upon landing as a baby and was likely exposed to temperatures around 2,000 degrees Celsius. Lorgrar tanked a Titan plasma blaster IIRC, which is around the twenty million degrees Celsius mark, if not greater as that's just the temperature for standard Plasma Guns, not titan-grade weapons.

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
A "fair fight?" What is a "fair fight" anyways?

If we decide that a fight is only fair when the two contestants are evenly matched, then all fair fights will end in a draw. Does this make sense? I don't know about everyone else, but my definition of a fair fight is one in which the two contestants have to play by the same rules. The two contestants don't have to be evenly matched. If Lennox Lewis fights Pee Wee Herman, I consider it a fair fight as long as both fighters wear the same gloves and obey the same rules. It would be an incredible mismatch, but it would still be a fair fight.

 Happyjew wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
A "fair fight?" What is a "fair fight" anyways?

If we decide that a fight is only fair when the two contestants are evenly matched, then all fair fights will end in a draw. Does this make sense? I don't know about everyone else, but my definition of a fair fight is one in which the two contestants have to play by the same rules. The two contestants don't have to be evenly matched. If Lennox Lewis fights Pee Wee Herman, I consider it a fair fight as long as both fighters wear the same gloves and obey the same rules. It would be an incredible mismatch, but it would still be a fair fight.

You stole that from Stardestroyer.net, didn't you?

 Kain wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
A "fair fight?" What is a "fair fight" anyways?

If we decide that a fight is only fair when the two contestants are evenly matched, then all fair fights will end in a draw. Does this make sense? I don't know about everyone else, but my definition of a fair fight is one in which the two contestants have to play by the same rules. The two contestants don't have to be evenly matched. If Lennox Lewis fights Pee Wee Herman, I consider it a fair fight as long as both fighters wear the same gloves and obey the same rules. It would be an incredible mismatch, but it would still be a fair fight.

You stole that from Stardestroyer.net, didn't you?

Yes, yes I did. Honestly I'm surprised somebody recognized it.

 Happyjew wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
A "fair fight?" What is a "fair fight" anyways?

If we decide that a fight is only fair when the two contestants are evenly matched, then all fair fights will end in a draw. Does this make sense? I don't know about everyone else, but my definition of a fair fight is one in which the two contestants have to play by the same rules. The two contestants don't have to be evenly matched. If Lennox Lewis fights Pee Wee Herman, I consider it a fair fight as long as both fighters wear the same gloves and obey the same rules. It would be an incredible mismatch, but it would still be a fair fight.

You stole that from Stardestroyer.net, didn't you?

Yes, yes I did. Honestly I'm surprised somebody recognized it.

My history with the intertubez is vast.

Here be the rules then:

No weapons, no armor, no psychic shooting attacks or internal organ rupturing. Also no flying higher than 8m.

Everyone starts 50m away from each other in a circle going clockwise in alphabetical order.

Alpharius and Omega are considered a single entity.



Winner is either the last one standing or the last one conscience.

Well, Forgeworld has given us stats for a number of Primarchs. Why not assume two deep strike on a 4x8 table and play out a few iterations with the equipment provided. Then add in as new Primarchs are released. That could make some good photoshopped pictures at minimum.

There is no sure winner, just because Vulkan is the strongest doesn't mean he is going to win, or Magnus because he is the most powerful psyker. There are egos, friendships and rivalries that should be taken into consideration, double teaming and dirty tricks.

Because Mortarion and Russ don't like witches they might double team Magnus only to kill each other afterwards. Or Ferrus falls to his doom after the ground he is standing on can't take the weight of his big head and metal arms.

Maaybe Magnus uses his psychic might and causes a nearby volcano to erupt that kills everyone with the lava flow, including him, but Sanguinius and Corax go into hover mode. Poor Sanguinuis though falls into the lava and dies after a rogue piece of ash falls on his wings and causes them to burn away.

The Emperor watching from his space ship decides that he was wrong to create the stupid, bickering cretins below and hadoukens the planet, killing all of the Primarchs. Valdor is now numero uno and the Imperium lives happily ever after.

jhe90 wrote:
Aragon is the angrist guy in universe, and former gladiator with duel chain axes.....

This is him at home....deranged bloody close combat

Aragon sure looks angry on this picture. Or at least the King of Aragon does. And a king is supposed to represent his country, so I guess you are right. Not sure if he is an angrist though.

Most of these guys have stats. Let's place them 24" from each other with a piece of terrain in between and then have a go at it

Johnnytorrance wrote:
Most of these guys have stats. Let's place them 24" from each other with a piece of terrain in between and then have a go at it

That wouldn't work as those stats are from the time of the heresy when some of them are tanked on Chaos juice, so it wouldn't necessarily be representative of pre-heresy as the OP asked.

When it comes to Magnus, I'd like to point out a few things.

Firstly, after Horus pretty much DtW'd on him, he didn't really have friends anymore. Magnus and the 1k Sons is above all the saddest story of all the Chaos Legions. They were the group that truly (and to this day) were using their powers for "good" and mastering the Warp for the Imperium. Now they do it, well out of spite for Tzeentch who tricked them all that way, but also to make sure no one else gets caught in their trap with the exception of maniacs like Amon. So his ego and mindset in this contest are focused as is necessary for a psyker of his caliber in the first place.

Secondly, about that focus? Before the 1K sons became walking urns, in the battle for Prospero, I'm told Magnus managed all of the psychic disciplines of his legion from a single post, issuing out commands and such to the thousands+ that made up his legion. He also hit the eject button to send them into the warp as well and it has been argued, to send of the Blood Ravens predecessors.

Finally, those disciplines I was talking about. It's not just Warpfire and Lava exploding from the ground. It's Telekinesis, Hallucinations, physical manifestations like clone images, it's sensory deprivation it's whatever his mind basically wants it to be. So before the battle even starts, Magnus could end up making everyone think that they're fighting these really intense battles that gets them all killed down to a man, then Magnus walks up and beams him over the head with a 2x4, because K-OS.

It's like that song, "Anything you can do, I can do better." -Magnus the Red.

Interesting to note in the new book Vengeful Spirit it is claimed Leman Russ defeated any Primarch but Horus in training battles.

 Harriticus wrote:
Interesting to note in the new book Vengeful Spirit it is claimed Leman Russ defeated any Primarch but Horus in training battles.

If you are referring to Russ' statement about Horus being the only one he wasn't sure if he could kill, I don't think he meant in personal combat so much as if he and his legion could make the kill on another Primarch if they were tasked with it. That doesn't have to come down to a one-on-one. Much like Betrayer made it clear that Russ wasn't equal to Angron in a fight, but the Space Wolves still could have killed him if they had to.

Probably Sangy, as even Horus (hed come second) stated that Sangy was the only other Primarch he belived could defeat Horus. Angron was tough and violent, but most of the top tier primarchs (papa smurf, horus, sangy) believed that they would easily beat him in a fight.

1 on 1....Horus

Horus was declared Warmaster by the Emperor for a reason, Military Genius and he was the greatest of the Primarchs. Yeah he was favored by the Emperor for a reason and It took the Emperor himself to stop him. The Emperor was mortally wounded doing so.

Alpharius/Omegon.

'Cause there's two of them and the battle would've been rigged.

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
1 on 1....Horus

Horus was declared Warmaster by the Emperor for a reason, Military Genius and he was the greatest of the Primarchs. Yeah he was favored by the Emperor for a reason and It took the Emperor himself to stop him. The Emperor was mortally wounded doing so.

That was Chaos Horus, the one powered up by all 4 Chaos gods, and even then he didn't actually stand a chance once the Emperor finally took the fight seriously.

 Orblivion wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
1 on 1....Horus

Horus was declared Warmaster by the Emperor for a reason, Military Genius and he was the greatest of the Primarchs. Yeah he was favored by the Emperor for a reason and It took the Emperor himself to stop him. The Emperor was mortally wounded doing so.

That was Chaos Horus, the one powered up by all 4 Chaos gods, and even then he didn't actually stand a chance once the Emperor finally took the fight seriously.

I can't deny the first part of you statement, however I doubt the Emperor thought the battle wasn't worth taking seriously. I also agree if the Emperor fought pre-chaos Horus it would be no contest. Still Pre-chaos Horus would walk out winner 1 on 1 against all the Primarchs. There was a reason he was the Emperors favorite, all you need is reread 3rd and 4th edition rulebook fluff. I can’t say for 5th or 6th fluff, since I stopped buying the BRB. Maybe the fluff changed since then, or those Black Library books changed something. I wouldn't know since I can't stand reading novels in the Grim Sci-fi genre. I prefer to read fantasy based material.

Eihnlazer wrote:
Here be the rules then:

No weapons, no armor, no psychic shooting attacks or internal organ rupturing. Also no flying higher than 8m.

Everyone starts 50m away from each other in a circle going clockwise in alphabetical order.

Alpharius and Omega are considered a single entity.

Winner is either the last one standing or the last one conscience.

You're not the thread maker.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Pilau Rice wrote:

Because Mortarion and Russ don't like witches they might double team Magnus only to kill each other afterwards.

Read the OP.

This is a gauntlet, not a battle royale.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
Still Pre-chaos Horus would walk out winner 1 on 1 against all the Primarchs.

Tell that to Lorgar. He telepathically made Horus his nancy.

In terms of martial skill Horus is indeed up there with the best, but he was hardly unbeatable.

Sanguinius > horus 1v1. That's in the fluff. Said so by horua iirc. Ornhinted at.

 raiden wrote:
Sanguinius > horus 1v1. That's in the fluff. Said so by horua iirc. Ornhinted at.

I'm not so sure about that. Pre-chaos buff I think Horus would have had much more trouble with Sanguinius but I wouldn't count out Horus in that fight.

Just want to mention...

In Unremembered Empire, Curze kicked every Primarch he fought - Roboute, Lion and Vulkan's but. In fact he fought Lion and Roboute simultaneously and they couldn't put him down. He killed Vulkan twice and injured him so badly when not killing him, which would have killed any other Primarch out-right many times over.

DO NOT DISCARD THE NIGHT-HAUNTER

If your talking about practice fights where its controlled and with rules, sure, it's going to favour one individual over the rest as it's playing to their strenghts. BUT... If you let each Primarch bring his own unique talents to to ring... DIfferent fight all together.

Vulkan was raving mad and dying at the drop of a hat, and the Lion & Guilliman vs Curze fight was cut short by boobytraps. Not dismissing his skills, but those feats basically count for nothing.

And on Tsagualsa, Curze was smashing in Lion's skull and would have killed him until he was stabbed in the back by Lion's bodyguard Corswain.

Theres been a few actual "to the death" battles between Primarchs. Curze has been involved in many of them and has never been bested.

Some confrontations with results (kinda):

Alpharius gets killed by Roboute
Manus killed by Fulgrim (not sure if it counts as Fulgrim was demon possessed)
Magnus back broken by Russ
Curze smashing in Lion's skull
Corax ripped Lorgars guts out on Istvan
Curze nearly disembowling Dorn (pre-heresy)
Lion knocking out Russ
Angron beating Russ at Gehenna
Khan beat Mortarion

Loppie wrote:


Alpharius gets killed by Roboute

It's unknown if Guilliman killed Alpharius, Omegon, or simply some gak Alpha Legion Marine who decided to pull a Spartacus and pose as them. (They have also been known to let their marines drink some of their blood and "become" like the primarch for a short amount of time... yeah, crazy stuff). Or both. OR NEITHER. So you can see where the memes come from. Who the hell did Guilliman kill?

Loppie wrote:
Theres been a few actual "to the death" battles between Primarchs. Curze has been involved in many of them and has never been bested.

Vulkan beat him in their previous confontration. Curse is definitely a contender, but he does seem to have a bad habit of leaving himself open.

Ultimately i'd say he's at or near the top of the second tier, but the top tier would be Angron, Sanguinius and Magnus. At pre-heresy power levels I'd give it to Angron.

Seems like this could be answered just by math hammering the FW primarch rules...

clively wrote:
Seems like this could be answered just by math hammering the FW primarch rules...

Well except certain individuals would automatically fail from the get go due to not having models, the fight arguably forgetting some of their wits and tactics that might help, and, above all, even FW is going to mess up balance here and there. For example, I very much doubt Magnus will be fluffy and even if he does only if they give him two forms with one being him magic big and one normal. Bloody sake, Magnus annihilated titans even without going all chaos traitor mode.

All-out, only one Primarch can raze the surface of planets with his mind and overpower the second most psychically powerful Primarch from the other side of the galaxy.

It's Magnus.

I'm throwing my hat in either the Vulkan or Sanguinius ring.
Vulkan can not die. He will always come back. He will eventually triumph due to this fact. On top of that he is a very tough and powerful competitor, making it so he can take most primarchs before his first time down.
Sanguinius because even Horus has admitted that Sanguinius is the most masterful with a blade and the most skilled fighter. On top of that he flies, and can see flashes of the future.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
I'm throwing my hat in either the Vulkan or Sanguinius ring.
Vulkan can not die. He will always come back. He will eventually triumph due to this fact. On top of that he is a very tough and powerful competitor, making it so he can take most primarchs before his first time down.
Sanguinius because even Horus has admitted that Sanguinius is the most masterful with a blade and the most skilled fighter. On top of that he flies, and can see flashes of the future.

I don't buy the Vulkan argument at all, especially in this case since the argument is about who would win the fight. Getting killed means you lost, whether you come back or not. Regardless, resurrecting does not guarantee that Vulkan will eventually win anyways.

 Orblivion wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
I'm throwing my hat in either the Vulkan or Sanguinius ring.
Vulkan can not die. He will always come back. He will eventually triumph due to this fact. On top of that he is a very tough and powerful competitor, making it so he can take most primarchs before his first time down.
Sanguinius because even Horus has admitted that Sanguinius is the most masterful with a blade and the most skilled fighter. On top of that he flies, and can see flashes of the future.

I don't buy the Vulkan argument at all, especially in this case since the argument is about who would win the fight. Getting killed means you lost, whether you come back or not. Regardless, resurrecting does not guarantee that Vulkan will eventually win anyways.

If he comes back, would he actually have ever been dead? And while yes, he may surrender in the end he would still be fighting until such a time. It is a battle to the death; Vulkan can not die. Cheating? Yes. As fair as being able to destroy planets or control your opponent with your mind? Arguably so. If we don't limit Magnus's psychic powers why should we limit Vulkan's ever-living ability?

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:
I'm throwing my hat in either the Vulkan or Sanguinius ring.
Vulkan can not die. He will always come back. He will eventually triumph due to this fact. On top of that he is a very tough and powerful competitor, making it so he can take most primarchs before his first time down.
Sanguinius because even Horus has admitted that Sanguinius is the most masterful with a blade and the most skilled fighter. On top of that he flies, and can see flashes of the future.

I don't buy the Vulkan argument at all, especially in this case since the argument is about who would win the fight. Getting killed means you lost, whether you come back or not. Regardless, resurrecting does not guarantee that Vulkan will eventually win anyways.

If he comes back, would he actually have ever been dead? And while yes, he may surrender in the end he would still be fighting until such a time. It is a battle to the death; Vulkan can not die. Cheating? Yes. As fair as being able to destroy planets or control your opponent with your mind? Arguably so. If we don't limit Magnus's psychic powers why should we limit Vulkan's ever-living ability?

I'm not saying we should limit it, but the OP stipulates 1v1 and it is not a fight to the death. "Killing" Vulkan, or knocking him out or whatever means he lost, end of story. My point still stands that nonstop resurrection is no guarantee of his eventual victory anyways.

It's easy...

At the end, the winner gets his arm raised by the ref who promptly stabs him under the arm into the hearts with the shard of erebus.

The ref reveals himself to be Omegon.

It doesn't matter who will win the fight, because Alpharius will steal the winner's armor and claim the trophy at the awards ceremony.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Erik_Morkai wrote:
It's easy...

At the end, the winner gets his arm raised by the ref who promptly stabs him under the arm into the hearts with the shard of erebus.

The ref reveals himself to be Omegon.

^ Guess I should have read to the end. I like my scenario better, though.

Alpharius is too much of a little guy to fit Magnus' armour.

It should be pre chaos, one death/ko. Natural talent and melee weapons only.

Lorgar try's to get everyone to make peace, Is booed by everyone, run's off and sulks in his room.
Alpharius and Omegon cant decide what to do and stab each other in the back, while whispering plans to each other.
Russ thinks he can take everyone, struts in, takes out Magnus, who's forgotten what's going on again, then gets ko'd by the Lion. Who get's his throat slit by Kurze.
Dorn leans against a wall while Perturabo punches himself exhausted. Dorn ko's Perturabo, then gets gutted by Kurze while catching his breath.
Vulkan takes exception to this, so Kurze borrows his head.
While Kurze is fiddling with his eyes, he gets chopped to bits by Guilliman, who had to stop to write about it in his diary, gets got by Fulgrim.
Ferrus, enraged by Fulgrim's victory dance is completely ineffective against Fulgrim's flashy sword play and has his head removed.
The Khan spins out of his tiring duel with Mortarion, to take the dancing Phoenician's head and gets scythed down in return.
Corax who's been hiding under the ring, finally shows himself and eviscerates Morti, from behind.
Angron finally wakes up and stops attacking the wall to bury his axes into Corax.
Sanguinius, tears streaming down his face, crying for his brothers to stop it gets impaled on Horus' talon.
Angron and Horus face off. For all Horus' skill, he cannot overcome the sheer brute force of the red angel.
Raising the blood drenched Gore family above his head, He declares himself the victor.
Lorgar pokes his head out of his room to see Agron roaring his delight to the sky. Sneaks up and stabs Angron with the Anathame.

VICTOR LORGAR.

Picture him if you will. Little skip's on the spot. Both hands clenched, shaking to side to side. Saying I am the greatest

 Void__Dragon wrote:
All-out, only one Primarch can raze the surface of planets with his mind and overpower the second most psychically powerful Primarch from the other side of the galaxy.

It's Magnus.

Source?

Eihnlazer wrote:
Well, pre-heresy, no question vulkan would win.

He cant die, and is phsyically stronger than the others. Its a slight advantage.


Magus is also a top teir contender, assuming he makes use of his psychic powers judiciously.

If your talking about swordplay, Fulgrim, guilliman, sangy, and horus are the top contenders.

Hes right vulkan is Perpetual but if it was during heresy Horus would win considering he gets a bunch of gifts from the chaos gods but saying Vulkan will win because he cant die is kinda lame.
I think Angron and Sanguinius it would come down to because of Sanguinius can see into the future and predict attacks he also slays greater daemons like its going out of style while Angron is slowly dying from the nails

But Vulkan win sense he cant die...

VULKAN LIVES!!! (read it)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I forgot Magnus but Russ puts him down and most primarchs are protected by psychic.

Russ down a depressed and defeated (internally) Magnus, who also didn't want to hurt Russ because he knew that if he destroyed the Wolves (of which he doubtless had the power, as Tzneetch's plan revolved around both legions wiping each other out...or did it?) then he'd really cock-up the future of the Imperium.
I have no doubts that an "unbound" Magnus could beat the tar out of everyone.
He is the guy who won a fistfight with a Eldar Titan after all.

 Inky wrote:
Russ down a depressed and defeated (internally) Magnus, who also didn't want to hurt Russ because he knew that if he destroyed the Wolves (of which he doubtless had the power, as Tzneetch's plan revolved around both legions wiping each other out...or did it?) then he'd really cock-up the future of the Imperium.
I have no doubts that an "unbound" Magnus could beat the tar out of everyone.
He is the guy who won a fistfight with a Eldar Titan after all.

In a Thousands sons he almost died from those titans dude if it wasn't for one of his sons with a awesome kind shield. And he actually never "punched" a titan just threw warp fire at it.

Not saying magnus is not epic but Vulkan literally was stabbed burned and even corrupted by evil davinite priests yet still lives i think in the end magnus could open a portal and shoot him into space or something but vulkan will be back!

(though vulkan dies so many times by Konrad that he is driven insane so if magnus just kept killing him soon vulkan would get as angry and insane as Angron)

 zombiekila707 wrote:


(though vulkan dies so many times by Konrad that he is driven insane so if magnus just kept killing him soon vulkan would get as angry and insane as Angron)

Yeah, that's one niggling reservation I have about people saying Vulkan would win.

Resurrection can be a right proper bitch in the wrong circumstances.

Why can't someone just plant a blade in Vulkans head and just...

Leave it there?

Surely he can't just regrow around it?

 Redcruisair wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
All-out, only one Primarch can raze the surface of planets with his mind and overpower the second most psychically powerful Primarch from the other side of the galaxy.

It's Magnus.

Source?

For which one?

The first happens at the end of A Thousand Sons, the latter happens in Aurelian when he gets into a telepathic duel with Lorgar from the other side of the galaxy, while maintaining a psychic projection. Lorgar was psychically applying pressure to Magnus' mind, who eventually got fed up and blasted him down to his knees, giving him a nosebleed and destroying the architecture of the room. In Betrayer, Lorgar actually notes that Magnus' projection alone is so powerful that even being near it hurts his head.

The Heresy books are garbage in terms of consistent representation of primarchs, whether the individual capabilities or in comparison to each other.

The real answer is: The Emperor.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
All-out, only one Primarch can raze the surface of planets with his mind and overpower the second most psychically powerful Primarch from the other side of the galaxy.

It's Magnus.

Really, this is the only answer here.

It's like, not even close.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
For which one?

The first happens at the end of A Thousand Sons, the latter happens in Aurelian when he gets into a telepathic duel with Lorgar from the other side of the galaxy, while maintaining a psychic projection. Lorgar was psychically applying pressure to Magnus' mind, who eventually got fed up and blasted him down to his knees, giving him a nosebleed and destroying the architecture of the room. In Betrayer, Lorgar actually notes that Magnus' projection alone is so powerful that even being near it hurts his head.

I find the first one to be a questionable. I know Magnus raised hell on Prospero; on that part we are clear. The problem for me is that your comment makes out to be like Magnus could use that power you described onto a single target, a Primarch etc.

There seem to be little to no basis for such a belief. Against Russ Magnus only used his psychic abilities to boost his close combat prowess (considerably I might add), and they came nowhere near the scale you claimed he was capable of.

If Russ managed to ward off the majority of Magnus psychic powers, then surely the other Primarchs could do the same with the right kind of knowledge and preparation?

I love these threads

For me in a 1vs1 fight with their designated wargear its between Horus, Angron and Corax. I think the hh short story says Corax views the other two as nigh on unstoppable.
Throw in Magnus at full power though....hmmm. I recall Russ resisted his psychic blast in TS with his own wolf howl? Gotta check that, point being Horus armor and Angrons white rage might counter it?

Cant count Vulkan imho,just because youre immortal, its cheating :p

 Ratius wrote:
I love these threads

For me in a 1vs1 fight with their designated wargear its between Horus, Angron and Corax. I think the hh short story says Corax views the other two as nigh on unstoppable.
Throw in Magnus at full power though....hmmm. I recall Russ resisted his psychic blast in TS with his own wolf howl? Gotta check that, point being Horus armor and Angrons white rage might counter it?

Cant count Vulkan imho,just because youre immortal, its cheating :p

Corax believed that only Horus and maybe Sanguinius could defeat Angron, so how does that put Corax himself in the top 3?

 Redcruisair wrote:


I find the first one to be a questionable. I know Magnus raised hell on Prospero; on that part we are clear. The problem for me is that your comment makes out to be like Magnus could use that power you described onto a single target, a Primarch etc.

There seem to be little to no basis for such a belief. Against Russ Magnus only used his psychic abilities to boost his close combat prowess (considerably I might add), and they came nowhere near the scale you claimed he was capable of.

If Russ managed to ward off the majority of Magnus psychic powers, then surely the other Primarchs could do the same with the right kind of knowledge and preparation?

He could create psyflame hurricanes that destroyed Gargants and could blast hundreds or thousands of Space Wolves into nothing (While fighting Russ). He could with a gesture turn an ocean into corrosive acid, and destroy the remains of Tizca with Earthquakes. All while tearing open the veil and razing the surface of Prospero.

But he can't do these things one on one against a Primarch... Why? Magnus was warding off the entire Space Wolves Legion, not just Russ. And he did this while emotionally broken.

With preparation? Sure, they could come fight Magnus with a bunch of powerful pariahs and armour that turns back psychic powers on the owner like Russ. Who still had a hell of a time fighting the cyclops, whose attention was focused on fighting Russ, devastating the Space Wolves, destroying Prospero (I'm still not sure why he did that admittedly), and channeling a spell to save his sons. Russ is also the only anti-psyker psyker of the Primarchs, which did indeed make him more able to combat Magnus.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
He could with a gesture turn an ocean into corrosive acid.

Yes I recall him turning a large puddle of water into a pool of deadly acid. Saying it was an ocean is stretching it a bit though. Besides what would turning the ocean into acid accomplish anyway? I’m pretty sure all the fighting on Prospero took place on the main continent.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
But he can't do these things one on one against a Primarch... Why? Magnus was warding off the entire Space Wolves Legion, not just Russ. And he did this while emotionally broken.

Hmm common sense would normally dictate that you focus your efforts on the primary threat first. Considering that Russ was fellow Primarch and out for Magnus blood, there really shouldn’t be any doubt as to what Magnus needed to focus on first.

Yet for some reason Magnus decides to gamble it all on fighting Russ and his legion on the same time. Why? Why not just snipe Russ and then take care of the space wolves? He would probably have won the war if he had done so.

It is this problem that makes me question whether Magnus really could casually mind crush a fellow Primarch.

 Redcruisair wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
He could with a gesture turn an ocean into corrosive acid.

Yes I recall him turning a large puddle of water into a pool of deadly acid. Saying it was an ocean is stretching it a bit though. Besides what would turning the ocean into acid accomplish anyway? I’m pretty sure all the fighting on Prospero took place on the main continent.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
But he can't do these things one on one against a Primarch... Why? Magnus was warding off the entire Space Wolves Legion, not just Russ. And he did this while emotionally broken.

Hmm common sense would normally dictate that you focus your efforts on the primary threat first. Considering that Russ was fellow Primarch and out for Magnus blood, there really shouldn’t be any doubt as to what Magnus needed to focus on first.

Yet for some reason Magnus decides to gamble it all on fighting Russ and his legion on the same time. Why? Why not just snipe Russ and then take care of the space wolves? He would probably have won the war if he had done so.

It is this problem that makes me question whether Magnus really can casual mind crush a fellow Primarch.

I believe it's because he wanted to protect his sons. Also, if you read the fight Russ is getting pounded up until he luckily hits Magnus' eye.

The whole dumbass vulkan thing runed the whole series for me he should of just died and been over with it.

Also so he comes back to life? They never really said how, he dies so that is confirmed so can't you just cut off his head and keep it on your belt. Poof he is immortal but headless or a head screaming from your belt. He still is dead. Plus curse could of just chucked him into outer space in the wrong direction and let him float away forever or throw him into a sun. Immortal or not he comes back dies again and again and no one will find him on a sun every then it supernovas and he disapperas in a wormhole "he dead". Big plot hole.

Hands down would be Angron or Curse. They both tried and succeeded in killing primarchs, they both have the will to kill. They are known far and wide for this stuff where vulkan has a book where he gets owned for god knows how long then says I was faking it since I was found HAHA. Kinda lame sause. Maybe magnus but I can't see him having the will to kill anyone even arahiman disapointed him he came down fixed his mistake and said get going thats that.

p.s. anyone else remember him Angron taking on the 2 primarchs before he daemons out? So much for the scrub of ultramar.

I believe in order for the true answer to be found, the true test is to enable all abilities, or limit them so all are equal.

1- no holds barred. This means everyone is in peak condition, with no exceptions or limitations and also no upgrades (looking at you Horus with your God-like possession powers, and Daemon Primarchs). So each at the height of their GC power. Not only that, but everyone is out for blood. Ferrus Manus died because he didn't expect Fulgrim to be out for his head, and Sanguinius died because he was exhausted and Horus had superpowers. Magnus wins because Alpha+ Psyker.

2- Everyone wears only Power Armour (its Primarch equivilent) and wields a bolter and chainsword. No psychic powers and no revivals or anything else. Just straight up combat to Sanguis Extremis. Angron wins because he was born into this.

3- everyone has their own equipment and stuff, except Magnus' powers, Horus's possession, Vulkan's revival, Lorgar's Chaos upgrades, Daemonhood, etc. Just straight up combat with choice of wargear.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

OgreChubbs wrote:
The whole dumbass vulkan thing runed the whole series for me he should of just died and been over with it.

Also so he comes back to life? They never really said how, he dies so that is confirmed so can't you just cut off his head and keep it on your belt. Poof he is immortal but headless or a head screaming from your belt. He still is dead. Plus curse could of just chucked him into outer space in the wrong direction and let him float away forever or throw him into a sun. Immortal or not he comes back dies again and again and no one will find him on a sun every then it supernovas and he disapperas in a wormhole "he dead". Big plot hole.

Hands down would be Angron or Curse. They both tried and succeeded in killing primarchs, they both have the will to kill. They are known far and wide for this stuff where vulkan has a book where he gets owned for god knows how long then says I was faking it since I was found HAHA. Kinda lame sause. Maybe magnus but I can't see him having the will to kill anyone even arahiman disapointed him he came down fixed his mistake and said get going thats that.

p.s. anyone else remember him Angron taking on the 2 primarchs before he daemons out? So much for the scrub of ultramar.

Angron never killed a Primarch, and Curze only killed a Primarch who was strapped to a chair, not in combat. Only 4 Primarchs are confirmed dead, all by other Primarchs. Ferrus Manus was killed by Fulgrim, Sanguinius killed by Horus, Horus by Big E, and Guilliman by Fulgrim. It is also reported but not confirmed that Alpharius (one of them at least :L) was killed by Guilliman. Not confirmed even by Guilliman, and could have been Omegon or even just another Alpha Legionaire.

Angron never killed a Primarch.


Also, Perpetuals respawn, like in CoD or other video games. A short distance away just enough to be out of danger. So he would no respawn in space or a star but on the nearest inhabitable world or ship, away from the killer.

 Happyjew wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
A "fair fight?" What is a "fair fight" anyways?

If we decide that a fight is only fair when the two contestants are evenly matched, then all fair fights will end in a draw. Does this make sense? I don't know about everyone else, but my definition of a fair fight is one in which the two contestants have to play by the same rules. The two contestants don't have to be evenly matched. If Lennox Lewis fights Pee Wee Herman, I consider it a fair fight as long as both fighters wear the same gloves and obey the same rules. It would be an incredible mismatch, but it would still be a fair fight.

When someone hits someone 100 lbs heavier than them in self defense with an equalizer there is nothing unfair about that. When someone hits someone 150 lbs smaller than them without notice... that's not really fair. Apparently our definitions of fair fights aren't the same. Give Pee Wee Herman a tazer and a t-ball bat and you're closer to fair. I've been in a lot of fights and none of them were ever fair. The idea of a fair fights is a losers idea. I mean that in a literal sense. If you fight fair you either lose or are fighting someone you outmatch so bad it might as well be cheating and holds just as little honor. So I say the battle Royale must be "no holds barred" because the only fair fight is the kind where every persons strengths are available. A big guy has physical prowess, and the little wiley guy might have intelligence but it you bar everything but hand to hand fighting you effectively take away all the wily guys skills making the fight even less fair.

Ramble


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Redcruisair wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
All-out, only one Primarch can raze the surface of planets with his mind and overpower the second most psychically powerful Primarch from the other side of the galaxy.

It's Magnus.

Source?

For which one?

The first happens at the end of A Thousand Sons, the latter happens in Aurelian when he gets into a telepathic duel with Lorgar from the other side of the galaxy, while maintaining a psychic projection. Lorgar was psychically applying pressure to Magnus' mind, who eventually got fed up and blasted him down to his knees, giving him a nosebleed and destroying the architecture of the room. In Betrayer, Lorgar actually notes that Magnus' projection alone is so powerful that even being near it hurts his head.

In Aurelian Magnus also says how much stronger Lorgar is. Pre heresy Lorgar wouldn't stan a chance but in the Heresy after the Isstvan system and after Ultramar... I think he would be in the top 3. Magnus, Russ, Lorgar. I only think Russ is in it because he is protected against psychic attacks by his own latent ability.

OgreChubbs wrote:


Hands down would be Angron or Curse. They both tried and succeeded in killing primarchs, they both have the will to kill..

Russ didn't "kill" Magnus, but he did shower in psychic storm magnus unleashed on his face during the fight. I swear every telling of that fight has it different. Sometimes magnus only boosted his combat powers, other readings are that magnus realized it was over, but didn't want to go down without a fight and went buckwild. In any event, Magnus was mortally wounded and no longer has a physical body. The stuff about Russ being Ko'ed by the lion, that was a sucker punch and everyone knows it!

For all the savage tactician stuff Russ has going for him, 1V1 is Angrons thing, and I don't see many beating him.

Sangy>angron.

Think skilled swordsman vs hulking brute.