Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Hi SirAngry
I didn't make my comment simply to criticise Kanners, but because that discussion was sidetracking the real problem. As I said whether it melted or simply flopped doesn't matter much if the model is knackered.
Will agree that the melting into a pile of goo is overstating the case, however.
No your right, the fact remains that, my Gandalf became an ex-Gandalf whether that was because of warping or melting might be a moot point, but I feel its important to clarify these things. As I've said my original batch Gyrocopter has also shown some warping, so at the very least it is an issue with the initial batch. I've had managers of local stores in the West Midlands say as much themselves and they're open about the issues they've had and all are telling people to check their product before leaving the store.
@htj I don't think the GW will ever admit to a fault or a problem, they've never really done it before and as an ex-employee we were told the GW 'never makes mistakes'. I know from speaking to people at head office that they hate the internet and forums because people don't just get the White Dwarf viewpoint anymore and that forums like Dakka Dakka and blogs and podcasts are able to put out an alternative view, something they've not had to deal with in the past as they've had a monopoly on their hobby coverage really. However at this stage admitting something has gone wrong with production would be shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. No I think they should just concentrate on stepping up their QC and getting things right.
SirAngry wrote:
... snip ... I know from speaking to people at head office that they hate the internet and forums because people don't just get the White Dwarf viewpoint anymore and that forums like Dakka Dakka and blogs and podcasts are able to put out an alternative view, something they've not had to deal with in the past as they've had a monopoly on their hobby coverage really.
... snip ...
SirAngry wrote:
... snip ... I know from speaking to people at head office that they hate the internet and forums because people don't just get the White Dwarf viewpoint anymore and that forums like Dakka Dakka and blogs and podcasts are able to put out an alternative view, something they've not had to deal with in the past as they've had a monopoly on their hobby coverage really.
... snip ...
Telling.
To be fair I bet all companies feel like that at some point. I'm sure Sony Computer Entertainment weren't exactly chuffed with the coverage they got on the internet during the PSN downtime. lol. I guess the GW's problem is that they don't really hide that fact very well or play the game very well either. PP and others I could mention seem to handle bloggers, forums and podcasts etc just a little bit better. They see the internet as a tool to help them, albeit one they can't control, but they can influence. I get the feeling that the GW wishes the internet didn't exist and they certainly view it as a problem not an opportunity.
SirAngry wrote:
... snip ... I know from speaking to people at head office that they hate the internet and forums because people don't just get the White Dwarf viewpoint anymore and that forums like Dakka Dakka and blogs and podcasts are able to put out an alternative view, something they've not had to deal with in the past as they've had a monopoly on their hobby coverage really.
... snip ...
Telling.
To be fair I bet all companies feel like that at some point. I'm sure Sony Computer Entertainment weren't exactly chuffed with the coverage they got on the internet during the PSN downtime. lol. I guess the GW's problem is that they don't really hide that fact very well or play the game very well either. PP and others I could mention seem to handle bloggers, forums and podcasts etc just a little bit better. They see the internet as a tool to help them, albeit one they can't control, but they can influence. I get the feeling that the GW wishes the internet didn't exist and they certainly view it as a problem not an opportunity.
Couldn't agree more. The internet has been embraced by GW with both hands rolled into fists, and with an expression like the screaming bald man from the cover of DoW.
BTW I think you should link your blog in your signature SirAngry, have really enjoyed reading it especially your infinity stuff
I wonder how bad does a model need to be damaged???
how high does the price for a model need to be???
how many crazy marketting lies d
....for some people to realise that FAILCAST is all a big ripp-off?????
LOL, I'm surprised that the guy was satisfied with a very noticable mold line across both sides of the model, extra flash on the crozius, and a big bubble obliteration of his jump pack front vent. As long as people think that is "ok overall" like he did, GW won't change a thing. Also, as noted in the video, the next who-knows-how-many models from his mold will have not only the crozius defect (probably from a bit of mold sticking to the model during release in a prior batch) but also the two extra defects that his rubber sticking and tearing off with his model will cause. Bravo GW! Finecast indeed!
edit: Lol, the second video has the replacement blister sent to replace a miscast one has an entire sprue missing for draigo. I guess they thought that no one actually wants his shield!
SirAngry wrote:
... snip ... I know from speaking to people at head office that they hate the internet and forums because people don't just get the White Dwarf viewpoint anymore and that forums like Dakka Dakka and blogs and podcasts are able to put out an alternative view, something they've not had to deal with in the past as they've had a monopoly on their hobby coverage really.
... snip ...
Telling.
To be fair I bet all companies feel like that at some point. I'm sure Sony Computer Entertainment weren't exactly chuffed with the coverage they got on the internet during the PSN downtime. lol. I guess the GW's problem is that they don't really hide that fact very well or play the game very well either. PP and others I could mention seem to handle bloggers, forums and podcasts etc just a little bit better. They see the internet as a tool to help them, albeit one they can't control, but they can influence. I get the feeling that the GW wishes the internet didn't exist and they certainly view it as a problem not an opportunity.
Couldn't agree more. The internet has been embraced by GW with both hands rolled into fists, and with an expression like the screaming bald man from the cover of DoW.
BTW I think you should link your blog in your signature SirAngry, have really enjoyed reading it especially your infinity stuff
Cheers Pacific, I'll be dabbling with the look of the blog and I might put a link in my signatures on forums, but I'm not too sure its needed. My blogs getting enough daily hits atm so its all good.
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Presumably the model would have to go through the temperature range at which it might warp before it got the the vulanisation point?
So it would vulcanise in its bent condition.
No idea, but his ranges include:
30 C - no effect
40 C - slight warping
60 C - major warping
90 C - material softned but due to its 'memory' less weighty pieces reverted back to its original state
120 C - no change
Although I am completely speculating and could be wide of the mark (due the fact I am no scientist or materials specialist) perhaps it did warp, but as the temperature climbed the materials memory reverted it to its original shape and as it hit 120+ vulcanisation occured?
That would be a solid guess, as far as I'm concerned. Of course, since vulcanized resin is theoretically more sturdy, this begs the question of whether we should bake ALL of our finecast just to ensure it doesn't crap out on us.
if you bake it it will deform/melt
resin is two components mixed that harden after a certain time
once they hardend there is no reversing the prozess
also their is no way of makeing the resin harder later
GW uses more resin compnent and less hardener component (maybe even adding softener) thats why it is more like rubber and not as hard as FW resin
if they made it harder like FW resin it would be more likelly to brake... wich is prob the main reason for it being soft
if you look at the new DE models you can see that they will not fix the issue of bubbels or misscasts
they can´t... they can only pull out the miscasts.... but as they have not done so with metall wich is less likely to misscast.... why woud they with resin?
not every customer asks for a refund so they can just keep going on... that is less expensiv than highering staff to check for misscasts
i bet they knew the problems with finecast and just went for it anyways out of profit reasons
and to avoid any los due to decreasing sales they upped the price
a GW termi charekter is the same price as a FW one!!!!!
Just some info about moulds. The rubber doesn't actually stick as such, it's more of a case that the mould dessicates. The more it is used the more the silicone degrades and becomes brittle to the point that it tears, and also with the tension used by the caster person to demould the model. that is what is happening when chunks are stuck in the models.
The reason for all the airbubbles vary a lot but range from:
1) Not enough pressure to drive out the air.
2) The resin/plastic mix is too thick for the mould.
3) The air channels are way too small. They may have to cut more and widen them.
4) Perhaps their method is wrong for the amount of detail? They should maybe consider using a vaccum chamber.
5) I don't think the faults can be put down to a bad batch. It is more of a technical problem which will continue until they realise that they've got a problem.
I saw a Astorath the Grim at my FLGS, his armor was incredibly detailed, (his eye sockets were empty, kinda weird there) but his wings has slight thin spots on several places where you could see through them. A little green stuff could be an easy fix on that. Most of the Finecast I have seen looks pretty damn nice. It does also help that my FLGS owner does thorough checks for screwed up ones.
Stormrider wrote:I saw a Astorath the Grim at my FLGS, his armor was incredibly detailed, (his eye sockets were empty, kinda weird there) but his wings has slight thin spots on several places where you could see through them. A little green stuff could be an easy fix on that. Most of the Finecast I have seen looks pretty damn nice. It does also help that my FLGS owner does thorough checks for screwed up ones.
While it might be just the thing to fix it, it is disappointing that you'd have to do anything other than clean flash from it at these prices.
I hope Finecast 2.0 works out a lot better than this...
I think Finecast will improve once they start to make masters specifically for resin moulding.
I am sure some of the trouble comes from the fact that they recycled models intended for a different method of production.
The other main variable is the quality of mixing and pouring the resin. The quality of resin seems to be a bit variable, possibly due to discrepancies in the amounts of components (resin, filler and hardener) mixed together.
That is presumably a key flaw in the production process. You can't make massive batches of resin because it starts to react as soon as it is mixed. There will always be more variation in small batches.
I've actually had several problelms with the finecast minis myself. Three of five I purchased had multiple airbubbles and defects... I called gw and got new ones shipped straight to my house--free of charge.
I appluad this store for setting high standards.. though I don't think the customers would complain if they spent five minutes to call gwand got brand new models free of charge(and got to keep the old ones--some greenstuff to fix the holes &&good as new)
Automatically Appended Next Post: And they were from multiple armies-- de showing the most ammount of messups.
SirAngry wrote:I'm sure Sony Computer Entertainment weren't exactly chuffed with the coverage they got on the internet during the PSN downtime.
The key difference here is that when E3 rolled around a week or two later, one of the Sony suits got up on stage and dealt with that particular room-filling elephant, apologised for the problems, thanks all their developers and customers for being patient, and promised to do better in the future.
GW on the other hand just banned all previews, even to their own damned stores, negated the point of pre-orders (and WD subscriptions for that matter), shut down international sales, shovelled gak down our throat by telling us Failcost is the second coming of Christ, did an across-the-board price rise (on things like books, for crying out loud!) and did everything it could to, essentially, throw its toys out of the pram. And now they've started selling re-rolls.
SirAngry wrote:I'm sure Sony Computer Entertainment weren't exactly chuffed with the coverage they got on the internet during the PSN downtime.
The key difference here is that when E3 rolled around a week or two later, one of the Sony suits got up on stage and dealt with that particular room-filling elephant, apologised for the problems, thanks all their developers and customers for being patient, and promised to do better in the future.
GW on the other hand just banned all previews, even to their own damned stores, negated the point of pre-orders (and WD subscriptions for that matter), shut down international sales, shovelled gak down our throat by telling us Failcost is the second coming of Christ, did an across-the-board price rise (on things like books, for crying out loud!) and did everything it could to, essentially, throw its toys out of the pram. And now they've started selling re-rolls.
Yeah. Pretty big difference here.
I dont know why GW keep sending out White Knights to challenge you, mate...
SirAngry wrote:I'm sure Sony Computer Entertainment weren't exactly chuffed with the coverage they got on the internet during the PSN downtime.
The key difference here is that when E3 rolled around a week or two later, one of the Sony suits got up on stage and dealt with that particular room-filling elephant, apologised for the problems, thanks all their developers and customers for being patient, and promised to do better in the future.
GW on the other hand just banned all previews, even to their own damned stores, negated the point of pre-orders (and WD subscriptions for that matter), shut down international sales, shovelled gak down our throat by telling us Failcost is the second coming of Christ, did an across-the-board price rise (on things like books, for crying out loud!) and did everything it could to, essentially, throw its toys out of the pram. And now they've started selling re-rolls.
Yeah. Pretty big difference here.
The banning of all previews is probably directly related to the upcoming Hobbit movies and associated miniatures GW will be making for them. GW had to sign non-disclosures and aren't allowed to leak early info on the models as that would give info on the movies. There are large fees associated with such leaks. We all know GW is historically crap about keeping info under wraps. I think this banning of previews is their first step towards controlling unauthorized leaks which cause no problems when they're of GW IP, but would be very expensive if they're of Hobbit IP.
Kriswall wrote:The banning of all previews is probably directly related to the upcoming Hobbit movies and associated miniatures GW will be making for them.
1. It really probably isn't.
2. You're the first person I've seen suggest that anywhere.
Kriswall wrote:The banning of all previews is probably directly related to the upcoming Hobbit movies and associated miniatures GW will be making for them.
1. It really probably isn't.
2. You're the first person I've seen suggest that anywhere.
1. It really probably is. We didn't start seeing the 'complete' crackdown until GW's contract with New Line was renewed. New Line got (understandably) upset with GW before Return of the King because the Army of the Dead models and accompanying photos from the finished movie got leaked when a rulebook was supposedly lost.
2. Other than Reds8n, who made a note awhile back that GW has the concept art and production art in hand now.
It's probably not one single reason, however. There's been a lot of factors going on about previews. From sculptors getting understandably upset that people kept 'leaking' photos of the upcoming stuff from Games Day--I say photos very generously, as more often than not they were blurry shots of a glass case with the reflection of the photographer and flash in it--to the attempts that people made of trying to photograph the entirety of a preview Codex at Games Days just so they can smugly say "Yep, here you go guys".
With the advent of the LoTR license--GW had the perfect reasoning to implement 'Sneak Peeks'. Why those were ever taken away, I do not know, but they were a good idea.
I think it probably is related to the forthcoming Hobbit movie, and I've read the same thing elsewhere as well (although don't want to disclose who told me it). Security at GW is razor tight at the moment now (I have even heard about security guards on a door), and I think even though the company is frightfully banal about releasing information early (perhaps coming from the arrogance that they are alone in the marketplace), in this case it is justified because New Line have taken it even further in the past.
Case in point, when they released the early versions of LoTR at the Cannes film festival, on those 50 special disks, and one of them got leaked onto the internet. AFAIK the guy who did it ended up going to jail.
Pacific wrote:
Case in point, when they released the early versions of LoTR at the Cannes film festival, on those 50 special disks, and one of them got leaked onto the internet. AFAIK the guy who did it ended up going to jail.
I'm sure then if thats the case, you can find us a link to that story, and then the subsequent link to the story f the guy getting jailed for it....
SirAngry wrote:I'm sure Sony Computer Entertainment weren't exactly chuffed with the coverage they got on the internet during the PSN downtime.
The key difference here is that when E3 rolled around a week or two later, one of the Sony suits got up on stage and dealt with that particular room-filling elephant, apologised for the problems, thanks all their developers and customers for being patient, and promised to do better in the future.
GW on the other hand just banned all previews, even to their own damned stores, negated the point of pre-orders (and WD subscriptions for that matter), shut down international sales, shovelled gak down our throat by telling us Failcost is the second coming of Christ, did an across-the-board price rise (on things like books, for crying out loud!) and did everything it could to, essentially, throw its toys out of the pram. And now they've started selling re-rolls.
Yeah. Pretty big difference here.
The banning of all previews is probably directly related to the upcoming Hobbit movies and associated miniatures GW will be making for them. GW had to sign non-disclosures and aren't allowed to leak early info on the models as that would give info on the movies. There are large fees associated with such leaks. We all know GW is historically crap about keeping info under wraps. I think this banning of previews is their first step towards controlling unauthorized leaks which cause no problems when they're of GW IP, but would be very expensive if they're of Hobbit IP.
Even though Peter Jackson is giving in depth making-of video blogs about said film and posting them on Youtube?
The film is over a year away yet we're seeing previews about it already and unauthorised leaks and rumours have been flying around months prior to this. I understand that they did this when LOTR came out but that was a decade ago nearly. The Internet (and how information was distributed) has changed a lot since then, PJ obviously understands this, hence his vid blogs updating fans on the films progress, something that could not have been done 10 years ago (Youtube did not exist until 2005). GW do not. They think and act like North Korea or some other Orwellian state WRT info.
Ironically jealously keeping their precioussssss like a certain character from the Hobbit.
What's to stop GW from coming out and saying, yes we are working on a Hobbit exapansion for LOTR, if anything this would give LOTR a much needed shot in the arm. But GW is all about the NOW and impulse buys. They don't care about their long term customers. (said purely in context and in relation to another Youtube vid in this thread) Hitler was right.
Yes, that must be it. All the concerns are about preventing spoilers for a movie based on a book published in 19 fething 37. Yes, that's definitely it.
Kriswall wrote:The banning of all previews is probably directly related to the upcoming Hobbit movies and associated miniatures GW will be making for them.
I could see this being true for the LotR game, but across the board?
Grimtuff wrote:Even though Peter Jackson is giving in depth making-of video blogs about said film and posting them on Youtube?
When it comes to marketing and licensing, what is good for the goose is NOT necessarily good for the gander. New Line owns the rights to the movie and licenses it out to other corporations and individuals like GW... if New Line want to competely release every single piece of concept art and up to date photos of what they're doing with them (obviously a stupid idea that isn't going to happen) while at the same time forbidding GW to say anything until the contractually obligated date, they have that right unless there is a separate stipulation in their contract with GW. GW, on the other hand, shouldn't be douches about cutting off all access to previews more than 2 weeks prior to release of their OWN wholey owned IP (40k and WHFB). I could accept the preview policy as valid in regard to LOTR stuff (although I'm not sure that they were ever a part of black boxes.. can anyone confirm or deny that?)... but in regards to 40k and Fantasy, I think its an entirely botched move that will have no net positive result for them.
I'm not really seeing how much that they can do to butter up a turd and sell it as a crepe.
Finecrap won't do thier sales any favors, either. When NEW GUY hobbit buyer pays 100 bucks for a starter set, gets craptastic looking models and looks back at the pricetag... looks back at the models- Thats all its going to take.
The Hobbit, wasn't even a be all end all, either- Who needs another model varent of Golum reaching around scratching his hindquarters?
TO the new movie, all I can say is that I hope they can pimp it out to offset the costs, or I can see Deja Vu all over again.
Umm...hate to burst your bubble but the hobbit was written in the thirties. They can't exactly spoil the movie's plot as the book is almost 75 years old. I just think GW is incapable of saying "sorry guys. We messed up." I understand they send free replacements, but many times there's something wrong with them too.
Rozgarth wrote:Umm...hate to burst your bubble but the hobbit was written in the thirties. They can't exactly spoil the movie's plot as the book is almost 75 years old. I just think GW is incapable of saying "sorry guys. We messed up." I understand they send free replacements, but many times there's something wrong with them too.
The plot is not what is being protected, just like with LOTR that came before it, what is being protected is New Line's/WETA's/Peter Jackson's IP.
How this extends to GW's Warhammer and 40k line we'll never know.
Pacific wrote:
Case in point, when they released the early versions of LoTR at the Cannes film festival, on those 50 special disks, and one of them got leaked onto the internet. AFAIK the guy who did it ended up going to jail.
I'm sure then if thats the case, you can find us a link to that story, and then the subsequent link to the story f the guy getting jailed for it....
I read it in a movie magazine (either Hotdog or Empire, I can't remember which) years ago. I can't be bothered to go trawling the internet to find news of the story sorry.
Kanluwen wrote:There were security guards on a specific door during the production of the LoTR games as well. The Perry Brothers had commented as much.
They're not GW security either, it's security from New Line.
Kan! Your wounds are healed and you have returned to the field of battle once more...
I hope you came prepared to slay the Tyrant of Truth!
PS. What would they really be protecting? They arent hiding the plot twists or the ending... and the lotr and hobbit minis have never been anything worth hiding.
Kanluwen wrote:There were security guards on a specific door during the production of the LoTR games as well. The Perry Brothers had commented as much.
They're not GW security either, it's security from New Line.
Kan! Your wounds are healed and you have returned to the field of battle once more...
I hope you came prepared to slay the Tyrant of Truth!
More like the Fallacious Fools.
PS. What would they really be protecting? They arent hiding the plot twists or the ending... and the lotr and hobbit minis have never been anything worth hiding.
It's never been about hiding the plot twists or the endings. It's about 'hiding' how the creatures in question will look.
Does that sound silly? Sure. But let's not forget that when there was a leak about no Ents during the Battle of Helm's Deep, there was a fairly big uproar about it.
There was the same about how the Ents actually looked.
Kanluwen wrote:There were security guards on a specific door during the production of the LoTR games as well. The Perry Brothers had commented as much.
They're not GW security either, it's security from New Line.
Kan! Your wounds are healed and you have returned to the field of battle once more...
I hope you came prepared to slay the Tyrant of Truth!
PS. What would they really be protecting? They arent hiding the plot twists or the ending... and the lotr and hobbit minis have never been anything worth hiding.
This was stipulated in the contract with New Line, not done by GW. To make the models, they needed stills from the film, obviously, as the miniatures had to match the films. New Line didn't want any of the material leaking out from GW, or from any other liscensee. New Line and Jackson controlled every aspect of the films, and any info being released before hand.
Kanluwen wrote:There were security guards on a specific door during the production of the LoTR games as well. The Perry Brothers had commented as much.
They're not GW security either, it's security from New Line.
Kan! Your wounds are healed and you have returned to the field of battle once more...
Taking advantage of GWs customer service has been a possibility for an age. I would assume that they do record this sort of thing though so reposted claims would probably be met with increased requested for evidence or actually returning the product.
Back OT, I bought two finecast models with no defects from GW Lakeside on Saturday, that’s about 20 miles form Wayland Games.
I looked at most of the 40k blisters they had and a quick scan did not show any others with obvious problems either.
Assuming deliveries at the same time, Wayland should have their 2nd batch finecast by now. Have they announce that they are selling it again, as I only picked stuff up from GW since WG stated they were not?
It seems to me that the initial rushed/botched run is passed and the expected better produced is getting out there.
To be fair this is what GW/Mark Wells have intimated in the letters sent to various posters.
I'm going to need more confirmation before I start buying Finecast models again, though. If it is true then that's good, but there's still a lot of bad product out there and you never know if you're going to be getting something from a new batch or not, so it might be a good idea to wait a few more months (or longer) anyway for the old stuff to disappear.
notprop wrote:Assuming deliveries at the same time, Wayland should have their 2nd batch finecast by now. Have they announce that they are selling it again, as I only picked stuff up from GW since WG stated they were not?
It seems to me that the initial rushed/botched run is passed and the expected better produced is getting out there.
To be fair this is what GW/Mark Wells have intimated in the letters sent to various posters.
Well unfortunately your experience is not the norm. I have just received a couple of the boxed sets from the latest "controlled" release being Eldar Rangers and Wracks (of Dirz). First the Wracks. Majority of the Hexrifle barrel was a thinly skinned bubble, when I tried to remove the seam it broke off. The forearm spines/tips of the faceplates and even some of the armour rivets on all the minis were basically the same, hollow and fragile. Majority also had excessive bubbles on the underside of the skirt. Now the Rangers. Words cannot describe how rubbish these were. Pictures will follow, I only posted this to ensure peolple do not get the wrong idea on any supposed increase in quality control. One can only imagine the chain of frustration that would come from this...I can't be bothered going through the hassle of returning them honestly, for the time being I am finished with Finecast.
I don't care very much, cause I didn't order any finecast stuff, just bought it in the local store and opened it all right there with the clerk. No problems with like 6 purchases so far, though.
Why would I care about the ratio of defective miniatures as an end customer? If it is damaged I exchange it for an intact model.
notprop wrote:Assuming deliveries at the same time, Wayland should have their 2nd batch finecast by now. Have they announce that they are selling it again, as I only picked stuff up from GW since WG stated they were not?
It seems to me that the initial rushed/botched run is passed and the expected better produced is getting out there.
To be fair this is what GW/Mark Wells have intimated in the letters sent to various posters.
Well unfortunately your experience is not the norm. I have just received a couple of the boxed sets from the latest "controlled" release being Eldar Rangers and Wracks (of Dirz). First the Wracks. Majority of the Hexrifle barrel was a thinly skinned bubble, when I tried to remove the seam it broke off. The forearm spines/tips of the faceplates and even some of the armour rivets on all the minis were basically the same, hollow and fragile. Majority also had excessive bubbles on the underside of the skirt. Now the Rangers. Words cannot describe how rubbish these were. Pictures will follow, I only posted this to ensure peolple do not get the wrong idea on any supposed increase in quality control. One can only imagine the chain of frustration that would come from this...I can't be bothered going through the hassle of returning them honestly, for the time being I am finished with Finecast.
Of course that's entirely understandable.
Naturally there will be a lag. I think he fact that they are all being produced in Nottingham would mean that the first batches would have been sent to to further afield places explaining why Sidstyler has had multiple similar defects from 3 boxes. Equally it would explain why those in the South East of England have found better quality stock arriving in store.
Think of my post as an indicator that there may well be light on the horizon.
Kilkrazy wrote:Because you as a paying customer have to pay for the proportion of products that fail quality control.
Basically right, but I have the choice to accept the price for a given good or not. Nobody's forcing me to buy. And if I accept the price all I ask for is an intact item.
Kilkrazy wrote:Because you as a paying customer have to pay for the proportion of products that fail quality control.
Basically right, but I have the choice to accept the price for a given good or not. Nobody's forcing me to buy. And if I accept the price all I ask for is an intact item.
So it wouldn't be frustrating to you to order something online, wait for delivery only to get garbage, then have to call GW customer service have a new one shipped out and wait again in hopes that this one is good!
Why must you try to justify or say that this is ok, when is so obviously isn't for many people!
I maintain that this is a casting problem and nota batch problem. If a range of models are all showing problems it does not matter where in the world they are being sent first. The problem is going to show up anywhere.
But that would suggest that GW have turned to a product that will a 33% (or whatever high %) failure rate. That really doesn't make sense.
I remember someone saying that (someone quoting Mark Wells?) GW have dropped a bollock on this and didn't have the right staff in for the sudden introduction of finecast. So the initial run of products could well have been flawed.
Kilkrazy wrote:Because you as a paying customer have to pay for the proportion of products that fail quality control.
Basically right, but I have the choice to accept the price for a given good or not. Nobody's forcing me to buy. And if I accept the price all I ask for is an intact item.
So it wouldn't be frustrating to you to order something online, wait for delivery only to get garbage, then have to call GW customer service have a new one shipped out and wait again in hopes that this one is good!
Why must you try to justify or say that this is ok, when is so obviously isn't for many people!
He didn't say that at all. He said his personal experience with FC left him satisfied.
You asked if he'd be frustrated in a hypothetical (for him) situation.
You answered you're own question, and assumed he'd be frustrated
Then ask him how he can justify something that you made up and attributed to him.
He also stated it was his personal experience, and he was ok with it. What happens to other people doesn't affect his statement.
Kilkrazy wrote:Because you as a paying customer have to pay for the proportion of products that fail quality control.
Basically right, but I have the choice to accept the price for a given good or not. Nobody's forcing me to buy. And if I accept the price all I ask for is an intact item.
So it wouldn't be frustrating to you to order something online, wait for delivery only to get garbage, then have to call GW customer service have a new one shipped out and wait again in hopes that this one is good!
Why must you try to justify or say that this is ok, when is so obviously isn't for many people!
He didn't say that at all. He said his personal experience with FC left him satisfied.
You asked if he'd be frustrated in a hypothetical (for him) situation.
You answered you're own question, and assumed he'd be frustrated
Then ask him how he can justify something that you made up and attributed to him.
He also stated it was his personal experience, and he was ok with it. What happens to other people doesn't affect his statement.
Actually this is what he said.
I don't care very much, cause I didn't order any finecast stuff, just bought it in the local store and opened it all right there with the clerk. No problems with like 6 purchases so far, though.
Why would I care about the ratio of defective miniatures as an end customer? If it is damaged I exchange it for an intact model.
So I'm saying as a end customer you should care about a company that is not giving you a consistently good product. Not only for the headache it causes, but also, we still pay for the miscasts! GW has to pay for those miscasts, ie, you will pay for those miscasts with higher prices on the ones that come out correctly. So yes you should care.
Kilkrazy wrote:Because you as a paying customer have to pay for the proportion of products that fail quality control.
Basically right, but I have the choice to accept the price for a given good or not. Nobody's forcing me to buy. And if I accept the price all I ask for is an intact item.
So it wouldn't be frustrating to you to order something online, wait for delivery only to get garbage, then have to call GW customer service have a new one shipped out and wait again in hopes that this one is good!
Why must you try to justify or say that this is ok, when is so obviously isn't for many people!
He didn't say that at all. He said his personal experience with FC left him satisfied.
You asked if he'd be frustrated in a hypothetical (for him) situation.
You answered you're own question, and assumed he'd be frustrated
Then ask him how he can justify something that you made up and attributed to him.
He also stated it was his personal experience, and he was ok with it. What happens to other people doesn't affect his statement.
Actually this is what he said.
I don't care very much, cause I didn't order any finecast stuff, just bought it in the local store and opened it all right there with the clerk. No problems with like 6 purchases so far, though.
Why would I care about the ratio of defective miniatures as an end customer? If it is damaged I exchange it for an intact model.
So I'm saying as a end customer you should care about a company that is not giving you a consistently good product. Not only for the headache it causes, but also, we still pay for the miscasts! GW has to pay for those miscasts, ie, you will pay for those miscasts with higher prices on the ones that come out correctly. So yes you should care.
And his point of veiw is that he isn't being caused a headache, and doesn't care about the rest.
Your feeling is that he should care.
I care about the problems with FC because they affect me directly, probably 100 times more than any of the rest of you. But I'm not going to worry about making sure everyone else is upset about it as well.
I think the whole poor QC is a deliberate attempt to scupper internet sellers. No one will risk buying online for fear of receiving shoddy goods (and having to go through all the rigmaroll of returning the item for a replacement) and so they will be forced to go into GW's own highstreet stores.
Pacific wrote:I think the whole poor QC is a deliberate attempt to scupper internet sellers. No one will risk buying online for fear of receiving shoddy goods (and having to go through all the rigmaroll of returning the item for a replacement) and so they will be forced to go into GW's own highstreet stores.
Sheer, unadulterated brilliance
Pacific. I did not even think of that possibility. Something that GW would possibly do.
HMBC Wrote:
Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to incompetence.
I'm a bit more a optimist that there HAS to be an evil overlord in that corporation.
If you buy defective product online, can you exchange it at a GW store? It's been awhile but, I remember they had a no questions asked type returns system.
Andrew1975 wrote:
So I'm saying as a end customer you should care about a company that is not giving you a consistently good product. Not only for the headache it causes, but also, we still pay for the miscasts! GW has to pay for those miscasts, ie, you will pay for those miscasts with higher prices on the ones that come out correctly. So yes you should care.
The others have understood me perfectly right. Since I didn't order any finecast online I am only speaking about my offline store experience. And the GW shop as well as the local game shop I brought from so far both offered to open the boxes even before I actually paid. So I was sure I'd get intact models. The price was on a label so I knew what I was willing to pay for an intact model (which I got). So: my shopping experience was okay. Note that I am no apologist and will not order any finecast until the issue is solved. But I do not understand why people get on such a crusade of condemning finecast in general. Once GW manage to produce finecast without flaws I will order it online and be happy about it.
Btw I am sure they will manage to improve quality. I still have some metal models from the late 80ies and early 90ies which are miscast horribly. It took GW some years to improve their metal production as well.
AesSedai wrote:If you buy defective product online, can you exchange it at a GW store? It's been awhile but, I remember they had a no questions asked type returns system.
Generally, should be no problem. If I remember correctly, you can take in any current range GW product for exchange if it's still in the packaging, and swap for anything else. And damaged product is always exchanged. I routinely take in damaged GW product and swap it out from what I have in the store, and GW always reimburses me. Doesn't matter if someone bought it from me, a GW store, or from somewhere online.
Absolutely. I once saw an Ebay auction for a bunch of sealed GW product that went for something like 45% off the retail price. I bought it, then brought it all into a local GW to exchange for stuff I actually wanted.
I still stand by my 'non professional' review of the plesin (hehe, plastic resin) carnosaur, that i think finecast appears fine for larger monsters.
It's almost like the standard infantry/special characters have such small details that the molds don't seem to handle it well. Larger monsters don't normally have that much fine detail on them (ie. scales are larger, teeth are larger, etc) so they maybe cast easier?
*shrug*
I am staying away from finecast for now, but I'll still happy my carnosaur was fine
Murenius wrote:It took GW some years to improve their metal production as well.
lol, years? I'm not going to wait years for GW to get this right...hell, they shouldn't have even rolled this crap out at all if they don't know how to cast them properly.
Sidstyler wrote:
lol, years? I'm not going to wait years for GW to get this right...hell, they shouldn't have even rolled this crap out at all if they don't know how to cast them properly.
Well, sure. I still don't understand why people get so enraged about this topic. It's not like GW sells water and is the only source for it. If someone doesn't like the stuff they are selling he doesn't have to buy it.
Sidstyler wrote:
lol, years? I'm not going to wait years for GW to get this right...hell, they shouldn't have even rolled this crap out at all if they don't know how to cast them properly.
Well, sure. I still don't understand why people get so enraged about this topic. It's not like GW sells water and is the only source for it. If someone doesn't like the stuff they are selling he doesn't have to buy it.
Presumably because they liked the miniatures and wanted to buy them in metal. Now they can't. A large portoin of a range of miniatures that they like are likely to be miscast and at a higher price to boot. It's really not surprising that they're angry, nor is it entirely unjustified.
