If i'd only sculpted a half dozen minis before, and then made these then, other than the feet, i'd be pretty happy. I wouldnt expect anyone to pay cash money for them. I feel genuinely sorry for the people who pledged on this based on the original sculpts.
The people who pledged on the sea monster one, well they took their chances.

what I cant comprehend is the people who are still defending them. My guess is some kind of wargaming Stockholm Symdrome.

edited for clarity

Pete Melvin wrote:


what I cant comprehend is the people who are still defending them. My guess is some kind of wargaming Stockholm Symdrome.

Or sockpuppet accounts from the scammers perhaps?
Though the spelling seems a bit too good for that.

Escalation of commitment. They can't admit that they were wrong in backing this project, so have to defend their position.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escalation_of_commitment

Seeing those awesome sculpts, i am sure mierce is worried

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Seeing those awesome sculpts, i am sure mierce is worried

Well I'm sure Rob Lane is taking notes in any case

FINAL SCULPTS

Ahahahahaha

I do feel for the poor shmos who backed this train wreck. ADW are without shame.

I don't know what to say...

I seem to remember saying ITT that the worst possibility could very well be fulfillment of this KS.

That nightmare scenario could still happen guys.

Sweet mother of Jeebus those sculpts are terrible. :O

Maybe these models will be line the old Nagash model in that people try to make them look decent with a spectacular paint job.

About this kickstarter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxyRh9c8IcM&t=0m36s

These are just awful.

I think I've seen gak come out of my wife's elementary school that are more competent....

Wow... Yeah.. those models.. um.. I'm almost speechless. The only thing that would make them more sad would be if they cast them in 2012 quality finecast. I do have to admit though that I actually LOL'ed when I saw the Black Panther Yeti at the bottom. Fight the power!

 warboss wrote:
Wow... Yeah.. those models.. um.. I'm almost speechless. The only thing that would make them more sad would be if they cast them in 2012 quality finecast. I do have to admit though that I actually LOL'ed when I saw the Black Panther Yeti at the bottom. Fight the power!

I thought the exact same thing.

That casteline was wasted.


Still, if all goes to plan this is another successful Kickstarter project to add to the list.

oh boy... oh wow...

Well then, those will make rather fine, uh, erm.

I suppose you could... I mean...



Maybe just leave that particular package closed when it arrives. Preferably under 3" of concrete.

This could probably be turned into propaganda for GW:

"See, this is what you get if you don't buy from us. We have the best sculpted models in the world"

There have been "progress" on the SeaMonsters kickstarter as well a few days ago. I assume it's showing some activity to stop chargebacks to go through, since there may still be time for refunds on this one.

It's not looking much better there though. In fact I think those sculpts are even worse than what has been shown on IAM.


What in god's name is that "Kelpie" even supposed to be? A horse/lion/tree hybrid with giant fangs?

Allegedly the sculptor has 20 years experience at Disney (although apparently in a field other than sculpting)

He probably spent 20 years at the ticket window at Disney World.

How do they explain the difference between these pictures (aka, 'reality') and their campaign promises/words?

Ouch!

For what it's worth, isn't a kelpie supposed to be some sort of lion/ dog/ tree with giant fangs?

Really wish I backed that Sea Monster campaign. That's all sorts of awesome!

I can't wait for the Carnival campaign next month! How about you guys?

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
For what it's worth, isn't a kelpie supposed to be some sort of lion/ dog/ tree with giant fangs?

Really wish I backed that Sea Monster campaign. That's all sorts of awesome!

I can't wait for the Carnival campaign next month! How about you guys?

I forget the specifics, but aren't you...The Most Interesting Miniature Critic in The World?!?

 Alpharius wrote:
How do they explain the difference between these pictures (aka, 'reality') and their campaign promises/words?

Ouch!

Devils Advocate hat on:

What were the promises, really? their were backer expectations but as always caveat emptor!

Quality is subjective.

And from the initial sculpts they would be seen as concepts and subject to change - they have changed.

Backers look like they are getting their minis, this KS will eventually complete. ADW gets a project completed and KS have another win on their books to brag about and a percentage of the funds in their bank.

Its win all round folks.

Slow hand claps for all!

Oh...muh...gerd. (Not 'god', gerd...I just threw up a little.)

Those remind me of premolded children's bath bar soap. After being used heavily by grubby fingered toddlers. Possibly even after being fished from a P trap by coat hanger. Did Fido bite them? I mean...

...wow. Not a fan. My cat's kitty litter leavings give those a run for the money. Yikes.

Pete Melvin wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Seeing those awesome sculpts, i am sure mierce is worried

Well I'm sure Rob Lane is taking notes in any case

Oooh, I see what you did there . Zing...

As to these sculpts - yeah, crikey.

 Alpharius wrote:
I don't know what to say...

KS is not a store. That's what I say.

Sure, it's a "mantra" but I like money. I saw their first KS for 15mm miniatures. This KS was not only badly organized, but, when I asked about the ruleset (use that Contact Creator button before the KS ends!), the creator said they did not show the ruleset because they though another party would steal it (wrong, if you know what BGG and PnP mean) and that they weren't aware of any other game KS that provided the rules free (totally and thoroughly wrong). And, during their second KS, they had, in the FAQ, this ranty borderline nutso statement that they would report anyone making misogynist statements about the creator. I was going to give *my* money to *these* people? Yeah. No. Turns out, they were even crazier on the Reaper forum message boards, but, per Reaper policy, all negative posts are deleted. Yes, some forum members *did* back ADW because they did not read these posts.

More importantly, they were pretty much giving away miniatures are fire-sale prices. Stores do that and KS is not a store. Repeat the mantra: KS is not a store. [MOD EDIT - No Expletive Filter 'Workarounds' - Alpharius] not a store. Stores do that because they have excess inventory and need the cash. Projects typically don't have inventory at funding, so you need to ask questions why they are willing to lose money. If you don't get this information, save up your money for the next KS. I wasn't *that* interested in the miniatures, so didn't pursue further. I'm not giving away my money to someone who's ranting like the toothless guy at the end of the street.

Anyway, much like the 1/2 cent missing from the bank account, I eventually dug into this ADW stuff, and you can see the results in this thread. So repeat after me the g*ddamn mantra: KS is not a store.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
How do they explain the difference between these pictures (aka, 'reality') and their campaign promises/words?

Ouch!

Devils Advocate hat on:

What were the promises, really? their were backer expectations but as always caveat emptor!

Quality is subjective.

And from the initial sculpts they would be seen as concepts and subject to change - they have changed.

Backers look like they are getting their minis, this KS will eventually complete. ADW gets a project completed and KS have another win on their books to brag about and a percentage of the funds in their bank.

Its win all round folks.

Slow hand claps for all!

To a certain degree there might be a case to be made in ADW's favor using that argument.
Still, there is a substantial difference in the style and quality of the sculpts shown before (which ADW were never in posession of) and the lumps of castelline that has been shown after funding were completed. I think that it could also be ruled that the presentation of the kickstarter were intentionally misleading and that ADW never had the means or the intention to produce the product that they were giving backers reason to believe they would be recieving.

Of course it probably will never see a court anyway and I seriously doubt that the sculpts will ever be produced and shipped. The cost of material and postage alone would seriously eat into any profit they would make if they just keep the cash and stay on the run from the law.

Any updates are probably just made to stall, confuse and avoid chargebacks from credit card companies.

There's a reason why the term Devil's Advocate has the word, Devil, in it.

Zywus wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
How do they explain the difference between these pictures (aka, 'reality') and their campaign promises/words?

Ouch!

Devils Advocate hat on:

What were the promises, really? their were backer expectations but as always caveat emptor!

Quality is subjective.

And from the initial sculpts they would be seen as concepts and subject to change - they have changed.

Backers look like they are getting their minis, this KS will eventually complete. ADW gets a project completed and KS have another win on their books to brag about and a percentage of the funds in their bank.

Its win all round folks.

Slow hand claps for all!

To a certain degree there might be a case to be made in ADW's favor using that argument.
Still, there is a substantial difference in the style and quality of the sculpts shown before (which ADW were never in posession of) and the lumps of castelline that has been shown after funding were completed. I think that it could also be ruled that the presentation of the kickstarter were intentionally misleading and that ADW never had the means or the intention to produce the product that they were giving backers reason to believe they would be recieving.

Of course it probably will never see a court anyway and I seriously doubt that the sculpts will ever be produced and shipped. The cost of material and postage alone would seriously eat into any profit they would make if they just keep the cash and stay on the run from the law.

Any updates are probably just made to stall, confuse and avoid chargebacks from credit card companies.

Zywus has it, I think.

Also, let's say they do somehow, miraculously, ship these models. This is a clear case of a bait and switch, which is defined on good ol' google as:

the action (generally illegal) of advertising goods that are an apparent bargain, with the intention of substituting inferior or more expensive goods.
"a bait-and-switch scheme"

It's that "inferior" part that's the clincher, here.

But, they don't have to explain anything. Because, you see, it's "caveat emptor" and "kickstarter is not a store," so bait and switch scams are apparently a-ok

 Gymnogyps wrote:
Because, you see, it's "caveat emptor" and "kickstarter is not a store," so bait and switch scams are apparently a-ok

Well, it worked for HeroQuest! Man, what if ADW ran the HQ crowdfunding project and not Gamezone?

Funny how the "guy from Disney" has the exact same sculpting style as Lars/Susan/Lord Lucan and all of the other "sculptors" they have used...

I think the only successful KS they could fulfill is one for "Dark Age Poop Golems".

Again, I've seen first year students, just starting out, and with no particular talent for sculpting, turn in better final projects than this mess.

This mess takes effort to make it look this bad. It's the kind of effort where the sculptor is literally slapping stuff together as fast as he can to fulfill a deadline.

 Alex C wrote:
I think the only successful KS they could fulfill is one for "Dark Age Poop Golems".

Some days I wonder why I spend so much time on the internet.

Then I read posts like this. :-)

-S'Cipio

 Vertrucio wrote:
. It's the kind of effort where the sculptor is literally slapping stuff together as fast as he can to fulfill a deadline.

I strongly suspect that the problem is more that there isn't an actual sculptor involved at all. Just someone who thought it looked easy to do...

 insaniak wrote:

 Vertrucio wrote:
. It's the kind of effort where the sculptor is literally slapping stuff together as fast as he can to fulfill a deadline.

I strongly suspect that the problem is more that there isn't an actual sculptor involved at all. Just someone who thought it looked easy to do...

All you haters....

Clearly there are sculpts, thereby allowing the guy/gal/bath salt smoking ebola monkey that sculpted them to use the title "Sculptor".



Good sculptor? Well, maybe not.

 CptJake wrote:
Clearly there are sculpts, , thereby allowing the guy/gal/bath salt smoking ebola monkey that sculpted them to use the title "Sculptor".

By 'sculptor' in this context I meant 'someone who knows how to sculpt, and has probably actually done some sort of other sculpting before taking on this project...'


The sort of 'technique' on show here is about on par with some of the work that we might see in the P&M section from people just trying out putty for the first time. Certainly not the work of someone with any idea of what they are doing.

Anyone can see that these are high quality sculpts.

We are just blind to their (pukes in mouth) inner beauty?


Insaniak - you do first time users of putty a disservice. Their work is honest.

Wait wait....they claimed they had a former Disney sculptor working for them?!
'

 cincydooley wrote:
Wait wait....they claimed they had a former Disney sculptor working for them?!
'

It was a typo. Should have read 'Drunk Hobo'.

 Mr. Burning wrote:
Anyone can see that these are high quality sculpts.

We are just blind to their (pukes in mouth) inner beauty?


Insaniak - you do first time users of putty a disservice. Their work is honest.

Everyone knows mid-sentence sarcasm (especially in parentheses) is the online equivalent of locker room towel snapping bullying. Lars, Dina, and Scott do not appreciate you towel snapping them and are likely raising their hands now (since the yield button is inherently mysogynistic) to get the mods attention to report your online violence equivalent. It will not be tolerated by them nor Disney.

Another misconception.

Larsdinascott - one name - one person. Not 3 separate persons.

What the feth is a Soto T?

And why is it trying to sculpt?

Did it decapitate the Disney sculptor, yelling "there can be only one!", Highlander-style?

And why does it always stop at "99% finished" to take pics of it's work, instead of getting pics when it's done?

And finally, is ADW still trying to convince people it's legit?

Mythological Circus KS with random gak nobody wants should be coming along soon, right?

When I saw the pictures I was like "hey, these are some okay 6mm miniatures... oh... wait."

Rhinos sculpted with rhino poop. Brilliant!!!

WOW. Those sculpts are orgasmically bad. If they ever arrive and someone wants to offload a piece or two, let me know - I'd like to own a piece of this epic failure and help you recoup some of your losses. At this point, you have to wonder why they'd even bother making molds of that trash, since that would certainly eat into their scam profits.

Some fancy mood lighting sure doesn't save those sculpts, no sir.

" ...rather than the hyper-stylized, overly violent pop-sculptor tropes (which we never set out to recreate, or compete with, in the first place)."

That is just....just fantastic. I'm sure I'd be a lot less entertained if I'd dropped some green on this but still. Just pure genius.

It honestly comes across as some sort of interactive performance piece at this point.

It would be a lot less frustrating if they didn't have large amounts of good people's money though.

I loved the wikipedia link at the bottom, for us ignorant peasantfolk who aren't accustomed to such big words.

"Animalier."

Pete Melvin wrote:
Some fancy mood lighting sure doesn't save those sculpts, no sir.

" ...rather than the hyper-stylized, overly violent pop-sculptor tropes (which we never set out to recreate, or compete with, in the first place)."

That is just....just fantastic. I'm sure I'd be a lot less entertained if I'd dropped some green on this but still. Just pure genius.

Someone should refer them back to their basic KS page and the images including concept art contained within...

How are they ever going to get the sculpts past 99% done if we keep exposing all these flaws in their cunning plan?

From IAM comments:

Website http://adwgames.com/ has changed to only a placeholder page.

Leadjunkie looked up this Soto T. sculptor. He's dead. "Google indicates Soto T. is a modern art sculptor that died a few years ago."

If the sculpts are being done by a zombie, that would certainly explain a lot.

ced1106 wrote:
From IAM comments:

Website http://adwgames.com/ has changed to only a placeholder page.

Leadjunkie looked up this Soto T. sculptor. He's dead. "Google indicates Soto T. is a modern art sculptor that died a few years ago."

To be fair it does say a new site will be coming on the 10th. Probably welcoming their true fans and not the snarky want something for nothing moaners of the IAM KS campaign. Sculpts will still be 99% done.

 Mr. Burning wrote:
To be fair it does say a new site will be coming on the 10th. Probably welcoming their true fans and not the snarky want something for nothing moaners of the IAM KS campaign.

The true and devoted fans of ADW...

AKA "the silent majourity"

Zywus wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:
To be fair it does say a new site will be coming on the 10th. Probably welcoming their true fans and not the snarky want something for nothing moaners of the IAM KS campaign.

The true and devoted fans of ADW...

AKA "the silent majourity"

They have still got to have some fans though, right?

 Mr. Burning wrote:

Zywus wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:
To be fair it does say a new site will be coming on the 10th. Probably welcoming their true fans and not the snarky want something for nothing moaners of the IAM KS campaign.

The true and devoted fans of ADW...

AKA "the silent majourity"

They have still got to have some fans though, right?

And the **** is hitting them.

The Auld Grump

I think that's the casteline.

I think you two just described ADWs secret sculpting techniques. It chews through the casteline fast, but it sure produces a lot of models.

The Kickstarter comments are somewhat informative / interesting. There were a few like this:

Jarrod O 3 days ago
I got a similar response from KS: it is "out of their hands" but they will "not allow this creator to run another campaign".
I relayed my concern that these are professional scam artists who will change their identities to a point where KS will struggle to identify them during another vetting process in the future.

It's disappointing on Kickstarter's side, since several of us informed them that the second campaign was a scam while it was still running, and they did nothing. But now they want to sweep it under the rug (not acknowledge that they were warned ahead of time, yet did not cancel the project) and only privately tell backers this creator is not allowed to make new projects, instead of posting that publicly.

I know it doesn't benefit their business model to admit wrongdoing, but they obviously know they were wrong here now, and are just kind of trying to get away with it / move on without consequences. Backers of the newer campaign are recent enough that they should still have some recourse... unfortunately, the first campaign was disguised well enough that I don't think anyone could have known for sure that it was a scam, even though it was super sketchy since the deal was way too good to be true. It was their allowing the second campaign that was a major error on Kickstarter's part, imo.

 RiTides wrote:
Backers of the newer campaign are recent enough that they should still have some recourse... unfortunately, the first campaign was disguised well enough that I don't think anyone could have known for sure that it was a scam, even though it was super sketchy since the deal was way too good to be true. It was their allowing the second campaign that was a major error on Kickstarter's part, imo.

Well, "sketchy" is enough for me!

KS is not a store, and all that. You can't have clearance prices without stuff to clear out. If a project does sound too good to be true, use that Contact Me button and ask them directly until you get a satisfactory answer.

I should, though, mention that I did just that with Fairytale Games, who did not even show their additional miniatures in their first campaign. They responded that they had an "investor" but since I wanted to see the mini's, I didn't press for more information and did not back the campaign, since I deemed the risk too high. The project looks to eventually fulfill, although they're still 1.5 years into post-fulfillment, some backers want refunds, the creator ended up managing multiple game projects (the scope of the original card game kept expanding), and the mini's have friggin' explosive collars around their necks. Their Update 81 discusses some definite problems the project went into (inexperience, staff turnover, accidental death of one of the staff). The mini's look great, so if you don't mind the cliche-ridden collars, drop them a line and offer to take over someone else's pledge. See Update 74.

Update on the Ice Age Miniatures.

Sending masters to China to make resin and metal figures???

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dinaandrewswalker/miniature-ice-age-mammal-adventure-set/posts/1047948

Choose your own (mis)adventure time!
If you believe ADW really sent Master Models to "Asia" go to page 89
If you're a misogynist and don't appreciate the quality of their sculpts go to page 82
If you are a well educated individual with great taste and truly love what they've done with sixty-seven years of collected experience go to page 89


Page 82
You drown in your own vomit after realizing how wrong you were. The world is a better place without another Philistine like you in it.

Page 89
Oh noes! Pirates glimpsed the pure beauty captured in Casteline, immediately stole the masters, were shown the secrets of the universe through our masterfully crafted objects 'de art and got Rapture'd away...and they stole all the money. Sorry guys, project is over;(

I am so glad I didn't back this.

Originally I was looking for some random creatures for a diorama but decided to set it aside for another day.

I'm so glad I didn't back this. My SO would have never let me hear the end of it.

To anyone in the know - Any updates on this bad boy?

metal and/or fine metal minis,

As a philistine I don't understand the difference. Please help.

No updates. Website was supposed to be up on Nov 10, didn't happen. Whomever is using the creator account hasn't logged in since Nov 11 2014.

Update #127

Nov 28 2014

Sculpts Delivered

Happy Thanksgiving

I am writing to inform you that all sculpts have been handed to the agent for the Asian manufacturer and we expect a timeline early next week for delivery. We will post that timeline as soon as we have that information. All other details and conditions remain the same since the lost update.

How long does shipping to 'Asia' usually take? Just wondering when we should listen out for the first intercontinental incredulous snort-laugh.

Expect update #128 to be 'Sculpts tragically lost in the mail' or 'The 'Asian' casting company that we were dealing with has ripped us off, stolen our sculpts, and our savings, and our Dalmation puppy. Woe is us, we are bereft!'

Lol. I got a fiver that says Somali pirates, utilizing nothing but a trolling motor, make it clear to China and intercept/hold hostage the sculpts.

Maybe they're going for a reverse scam,

use absolutely terrible sculpts, communications etc to con backers into thinking this is all a scam,

but confound them by actually delivering, and then take everybody who mocked and accused them to court for libel/slander/damages etc

This still rumbling on? How depressing that they still think people are fooled by this whole thing.

Pinmini's sculpts available from other sources:

Andrea Sfiligoi(SongOfBlades&Heroes) on December 10

Just a quick note to all you guys that I received the master for the bunny-riding gnome that Pinmini had sculpted for the aborted gnomes kickstarter. Pinmini was so kind and sent me the sculpt as a gift. I am looking at casting it and sending it ( at cost, no profit for me but I need to recoup casting costs and shipping) to anyone who was stung by adwgames. The casting should happen in late January but I have no set date yet as this is quite complicated for me living in Italy (the figures will be cast in the US to have cheaper costs and shipping). You can contact me at andreasfiligoi@gmail.com if you want to be on the list (expect the figure to be about $2 plus shipping).

Scott Maurer on November 28

https://hearthstoneminiatures.squarespace.com/ice-age-animals/45sh8sc64vur3pe0fbfagnr9mhv62c
I've got the Woolly Rhino up in the store now in case someone wants to actually get their hands on something they were promised.
zoroaster's paint jobs: http://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/58314-pinminis-woolly-rhino-from-hearthstone-fenrylls-rhino-and-tres-belegast-the-bloodthirsty/
other IA sculpts: https://hearthstoneminiatures.squarespace.com/ice-age-animals/

...and ADW's webpage still to be updated in November! : http://www.adwgames.com/

That rhino from hearthstone looks quite nice. Good to see something came out of this, although not due to the Kickstarter creators themselves, of course.

That's the first decent ice age mammal I've seen in this topic.

I was wondering if anyone knew any updates to this drama?

Nothing that I can see. They never started their gnome-circus-voodoo-scam KS either. Looks like they finally did a runner.

I think we're all still waiting on the Chinese factory to manufacture those display quality pieces of resin.

You would think that the 3rd grader they had sculpting those playdoe animals would have been able to finish them over Christmas break but I guess not.

Hate to necro a thread but I was wondering if there was any movement at all on these Kickstarters? I was following with interest when all the drama happened.

From the comments, looks like many backers were successfully able to file chargebacks with their credit card companies against Kickstarter, since this was obviously a scam, and are still actively monitoring this creator's movements. I doubt they'll be able to scam the wargaming community again, but worth keeping an eye out...

 judgedoug wrote:
Hate to necro a thread but I was wondering if there was any movement at all on these Kickstarters? I was following with interest when all the drama happened.

Bro, this KS died a hero's death. people rallied around her, but in the end, it went out with a bullet to the head. They still give the appearance, so that KS doesn't banhammer them, but in the end, they are not doing anything but spouting off at the hole.

Link provided for the ones that like whips and chains.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dinaandrewswalker/miniature-ice-age-mammal-adventure-set

Check THIS out-

http://www.adwgames.com/ Dead link.... still connected to the project.

And what do you think of this?

https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/dinaandrewswalker/created

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dinaandrewswalker/28mm-miniature-sea-monsters-dungeon-terrain-and-bi/comments

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dinaandrewswalker/band-of-gnomes-28mm-miniature-skirmish-game-and-te?ref=users


Vaporware, all of it. !@#$clowns like this are what lawyers are for.

What bothers me is that quite a few of us reported the second campaign (the only other successful one) while it was still running as being a scam, and Kickstarter did nothing. It was "only" for $4,600, but still, it was obvious their first campaign was not going to fulfill and Kickstarter didn't put a stop to them.

They share some culpability in that, although really the warning signs were there loud and clear for backers of the Sea Monsters campaign, so there can't be too much sympathy for the second one (unlike the first which was much harder to pick up on, although luckily because it became so obvious later on many folks' credit cards did refund them).

But the most obvious one was the Defiance Games campaign, which raised $46K and all the warnings were there, but still got almost 700 backers...

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/defiancegames/28mm-power-armor-hardsuits-defiance-games/comments

I feel like some of these fraudulent creators are just running out the clock with their updates (last one for that was Feb 2014!). They do just enough to keep Kickstarter off their backs, and then end up saying they failed despite their best efforts. They know it's a one-time shot and they're burning their reputation to the ground... but for $25K (in ADW's case between two campaigns, and without much of a long-term reputation investment in wargaming to lose) and $46K (in Defiance's case) I guess they feel that it's (unethically) "worth it".

I just think in some of these obviously high risk situations Kickstarter should be keeping the funds in escrow until enough progress is shown... I think maybe they actually do this for some really large campaigns (or is that Paypal?) but if enough people complain about a campaign being a scam it should make it onto some kind of list... they might be avoiding that because to watchdog it would imply they bear some responsibility, but these (meaning ADW's second campaign, and Defiance's) were just too obvious for them not to do something about.

 RiTides wrote:
What bothers me is that quite a few of us reported the second campaign (the only other successful one) while it was still running as being a scam, and Kickstarter did nothing. It was "only" for $4,600, but still, it was obvious their first campaign was not going to fulfill and Kickstarter didn't put a stop to them.

They share some culpability in that, although really the warning signs were there loud and clear for backers of the Sea Monsters campaign, so there can't be too much sympathy for the second one (unlike the first which was much harder to pick up on, although luckily because it became so obvious later on many folks' credit cards did refund them).

But the most obvious one was the Defiance Games campaign, which raised $46K and all the warnings were there, but still got almost 700 backers...

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/defiancegames/28mm-power-armor-hardsuits-defiance-games/comments

I feel like some of these fraudulent creators are just running out the clock with their updates (last one for that was Feb 2014!). They do just enough to keep Kickstarter off their backs, and then end up saying they failed despite their best efforts. They know it's a one-time shot and they're burning their reputation to the ground... but for $25K (in ADW's case between two campaigns, and without much of a long-term reputation investment in wargaming to lose) and $46K (in Defiance's case) I guess they feel that it's (unethically) "worth it".

I just think in some of these obviously high risk situations Kickstarter should be keeping the funds in escrow until enough progress is shown... I think maybe they actually do this for some really large campaigns (or is that Paypal?) but if enough people complain about a campaign being a scam it should make it onto some kind of list... they might be avoiding that because to watchdog it would imply they bear some responsibility, but these (meaning ADW's second campaign, and Defiance's) were just too obvious for them not to do something about.

That's the thing though.

KS bears absolutely NO responsibility, and leaves it all for backers to worry about. You hit the nail on the head though and are 100% correct.