Hey all, just found this game and glad to hear the minis look great in person because I like the images. Can anyone who has the rules or the figs give me the quick and dirty explanation of playstyles for each of the four factions?
I'm assuming Ares are the "Space Marines" (token elite good guys with better stat lines and lower model count) is that fair? The others?
Time 2 Roll wrote: Hey all, just found this game and glad to hear the minis look great in person because I like the images. Can anyone who has the rules or the figs give me the quick and dirty explanation of playstyles for each of the four factions?
I'm assuming Ares are the "Space Marines" (token elite good guys with better stat lines and lower model count) is that fair? The others?
Thanks in advance.
So Ares are the superhumans who are not of Earth, but the ex-slaves of some other alien race. They have good armour, good ranged weapons, and good combat stats. But they have poor logistics, meaning that they don't have many tactical options available from the card deck. They also don't suffer fatigue as easily (the turn sequence punishes armies that take a certain number of phases in a row with fatigue).
Riff are definitely middle of the road, with good combat, average guns, and little armour.
Sayx are less combat based, but the best logistics in the game, and have a lot of guns that allow moving and firing, making them far more mobile than other armies. Low armour like the Riff, and shorter ranged guns than the Riff.
The Harvesters, from what I know, are generally the rubbish troops in the game. Low armour, combat, and ranged weapons. Also easy to hit. But! They never suffer fatigue, giving you a tactical element on pushing enemy armies into fatigue. Typically numerous army, with ways to generate new troopers from the dead. So classic Borg.
Were there still people here without their pledges? May wanna check you filled in the pledge manager properly as it seems Scale are deciding they just own your money if you didn't?
Probably written more to make people who do not fill their form to fill it than an evil plan for world dominance, people not filling their pledge survey is a major issue for many kickstarters many creators have complained that they have people not filled their survey up two two years ago.
PsychoticStorm wrote: Probably written more to make people who do not fill their form to fill it than an evil plan for world dominance, people not filling their pledge survey is a major issue for many kickstarters many creators have complained that they have people not filled their survey up two two years ago.
You missed reading the BGG link where it's been enforced on at least one guy.
PsychoticStorm wrote: Probably written more to make people who do not fill their form to fill it than an evil plan for world dominance, people not filling their pledge survey is a major issue for many kickstarters many creators have complained that they have people not filled their survey up two two years ago.
Here is the thing... A pledge manager is not needed to fulfill nor is part of Kickstarter. The agreement for Kickstarter doesn't involve a pledge manager but only involves a survey (which is supposed to be required).
Now a pledge manager does make it easier to facilitate, deliver and organize pledges for "creators" not the backers.
With that in mind. Not completing one does not mean your pledge becomes a "donation". Someone can't change the terms of agreement, that they did not agree too, by saying if you do not complete a pledge manager then it is a donation and sorry you are SOL. Honestly any KS creator who creates an order only based on 100% of the pledge manager, that doesn't account for lost shipping, damages, other issues and doesn't properly order excess stock... then that is on the creator. I would think as a Project Manager, that is par basis and usually part of planning.
Yes it is too bad if someone didn't complete a pledge manager. However I have never EVER had that been an issue with receiving or sorting it out. Both Mantic and CMON have had hiccups in their pledge managers (and they use a more official pledge manager program, than one they created) which I had confirmation and proof one time and another wasn't sure. Unfortunately it happens but never had an issue getting fulfilled.
I will say that apparently I didn't complete my pledge manager. I honestly thought I did and I had two pledges (my wifes and mine). However since the pledge manager is offline, I have nothing to go off but their word it wasn't completed. They are currently working through it, although I probably won't be getting everything on my list. I still don't understand if they cast in-house how this is an issue, but whatever. There are some people though who have flat out been told "sorry, but it is considered a donation". As a customer service they will send a retail version which I still don't agree is adequate.
Edit: I do want to add most pledge manager programs continually email you reminders until it is officially closed. In which case you have to email the creator and they can fix the rest of it. They also are kept online until fulfillment is complete. Even as buggy and horrible as AvP's one is, it is still accessible.
PsychoticStorm wrote: Probably written more to make people who do not fill their form to fill it than an evil plan for world dominance, people not filling their pledge survey is a major issue for many kickstarters many creators have complained that they have people not filled their survey up two two years ago.
Exactly. If a person fails to fill in their pledge manager in time then their money is considered as just a donation. This is the case for every kickstarter I have ever been involved in. The reason for filling in the pledge manager on time is so the company can then appropriately created the required amount of rewards. So really it is the backer's own fault for not fulfilling the requirement in order to claim the reward for backing.
PsychoticStorm wrote: Probably written more to make people who do not fill their form to fill it than an evil plan for world dominance, people not filling their pledge survey is a major issue for many kickstarters many creators have complained that they have people not filled their survey up two two years ago.
Exactly. If a person fails to fill in their pledge manager in time then their money is considered as just a donation. This is the case for every kickstarter I have ever been involved in. The reason for filling in the pledge manager on time is so the company can then appropriately created the required amount of rewards. So really it is the backer's own fault for not fulfilling the requirement in order to claim the reward for backing.
Uhm no, that is absolute nonsense. You have seemingly been involved in some dodgy ass kickstarters.
As DS points out, the pledge manager is 'not' a part of the Kickstarter. It is simply a tool to aid the creator.
I have never heard of anyone using 'You didn't fill in the pledge manager' to steal somebody's pledge before. I hope it isn't as widespread as you seem to claim and somehow I've missed this ridiculously dodgy practice spreading through the industry.
Edit -
Sorry DS, I just remembered who you were. They are giving 'you' the run around, of all people? That's just mental.
Uhm no, that is absolute nonsense. You have seemingly been involved in some dodgy ass kickstarters.
As DS points out, the pledge manager is 'not' a part of the Kickstarter. It is simply a tool to aid the creator.
I have never heard of anyone using 'You didn't fill in the pledge manager' to steal some donation before. I hope it isn't as widespread as you seem to claim and somehow I've missed this ridiculously dodgy practice spreading through the industry.
Agreed!
I've been involved in...WAY too many Kickstarters, and this type of nonsense rarely pops up.
Unfortunately it is probably to them losing Jorge Lopez. He was usually who I dealt with at Scale 75 and with his unfortunate accident resulting in his death, the project and company hasn't been the same in my opinion. I honestly don't know if part is due to culture and translation as well... which did plague the first campaign.
I know at least three people who have been told they are SOL though and only being sent a retail version (they at least only had basic pledges). I am still waiting to see what the results end up being as they said they are working on getting me things and what can't be 'found' can be turned into value into their store (although Fallen Frontiers is all I really wanted). I'm not being told you are out of luck but it also isn't what I would consider the best option, but at least it isn't the worst. I will say it probably effects my feelings though in the future on how I interact with this game.
Reading the comments lately in the KS though... it doesn't look good for some.
I am not sure it is an odd behaviour I have heard from creators that use the pledge manager as the survey since kickstarter survey is so bad (as odd as it may be, I mean KS should do their best to help creators but... ) and have heard quite a few stories from creators of backers remembering they did not complete their survey two years after the delivery time is done and there is nothing for them to send from the exclusives.
I am not sure what percentage of creators actually make a statement like that, it sure is a bad PR and for me coming a bit too soon, if they did not send reminders its bad form from them.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I am not sure it is an odd behaviour I have heard from creators that use the pledge manager as the survey since kickstarter survey is so bad (as odd as it may be, I mean KS should do their best to help creators but... ) and have heard quite a few stories from creators of backers remembering they did not complete their survey two years after the delivery time is done and there is nothing for them to send from the exclusives.
I am not sure what percentage of creators actually make a statement like that, it sure is a bad PR and for me coming a bit too soon, if they did not send reminders its bad form from them.
Will it impact after KS sales? I don't know.
Will stealing people's pledges affect their PR and sales? I'm gonna go with yes
Everyone's payment was taken at the end of the KS, everyone will have a record of what was paid. The KS is still there for everyone to see. It takes 5 minutes to check someone's claim and then work out with them what they want for the money they paid and charge them shipping etc.
If they are claiming to have only made the exact amount of KS boxsets for the pledge manager numbers then they are idiots or lying. What were they going to do if one was damaged or lost in the mail? And even if they are idiots and don't have any spare actual boxsets they should be going out of their way to fix such problems, these people funded their damn game. They 'owe' them.
I'm pretty sure if Games Workshop did something like this people would be up in fething arms.
"Hey, that thing you paid us for a couple years ago, well you didn't fill in some arbitrary questionnaire we sent out 9 months after you paid for it so we're just stealing your money. Have a good day"
I would go absolutely mental if someone tried that on me.
I know that you like to have a pop at scale every so often, and it does seem that they should be doing more to satisfy the people that, for whatever reason, did not fill out their pledge managers, but referring to the pledge manager as an "arbitrary questionnaire" is a little unfair, don't you think?
I know that you like to have a pop at scale every so often, and it does seem that they should be doing more to satisfy the people that, for whatever reason, did not fill out their pledge managers, but referring to the pledge manager as an "arbitrary questionnaire" is a little unfair, don't you think?
No, it is one. Pledge managers are not part of the Kickstarter system, they use their own survey.
They might have become associated with Kickstarters because so many people use them but despite being so useful they are still just arbitrary. You certainly can't just add terms and conditions to the already completed Kickstarter in them.
Essentially it is an order form, so the creator can see what items the "customer" wants.
In that respect it is very much not arbitrary, unless you think that pledgers would be happy receiving any random figures that add up to their pledge total?
Undead_Love-Machine wrote: Essentially it is an order form, so the creator can see what items the "customer" wants.
In that respect it is very much not arbitrary, unless you think that pledgers would be happy receiving any random figures that add up to their pledge total?
I'm saying that your analogy was unfair.
I know what a pledge manager is That's irrelevant, they are 'not' part of the Kickstarter process therefore they are arbitrary. Companies don't have to use them, some don't. You can fill one in by writing the word fish a hundred times if for some reason you want to, as long as you email the Kickstarter creator with your details then you should get what you pledged for. Kickstarter pledges don't come with the caveat 'you also have to fill in this form we're going to send you in 9 months that has nothing to do with Kickstarter itself or you get nothing'.
These people are clearly in contact with the company, they have been replied to. They gave the company money for something, They should get that something.
That's good to know, as a backer of the Hasslefree KS I was getting a little concerned
Artemis Black wrote: That's irrelevant, they are 'not' part of the Kickstarter process therefore they are arbitrary. Companies don't have to use them, some don't. You can fill one in by writing the word fish a hundred times if for some reason you want to, as long as you email the Kickstarter creator with your details then you should get what you pledged for. Kickstarter pledges don't come with the caveat 'you also have to fill in this form we're going to send you in 9 months that has nothing to do with Kickstarter itself or you get nothing'.
We seem to be talking about two different things. I agree with everything that you say here (except the part about the fish ), it just seems to be a semantic issue regarding how you were applying the word "arbitrary", knowing how you love an argument I think I will just leave it there.
Artemis Black wrote: These people are clearly in contact with the company, they have been replied to. They gave the company money for something, They should get that something.
Of course. I don't think anyone is arguing against that are they?
Artemis Black wrote: These people are clearly in contact with the company, they have been replied to. They gave the company money for something, They should get that something.
Of course. I don't think anyone is arguing against that are they?
*grin* Well you did start by saying I was being unfair - to a company that is basically using a made up technicality to steal from people, so I admit I was a bit on the 'what the feth' side of my sarcasm
PsychoticStorm wrote: ...have heard quite a few stories from creators of backers remembering they did not complete their survey two years after the delivery time is done and there is nothing for them to send from the exclusives.
Two years after delivery and fulfillment of a KS is completely different than 30 days after they just finished fulfillment. When the first response was all pledges have been sent, just give it a few weeks and wait. Two years later that is definitely an issue with with the backer not following up in a timely manner and completely forgetting about it.
I had an issue with one of Mantic's where my order was completely lost due to a database issue. The way it was explained was the list was exported from backerkit but somehow when they transferred it to fulfillment it was misplaced. That was within 30 days of me noticing everyone was receiving their stuff but I was not. With CMoN I didn't notice it until months later, as there were multiple CMoN KS going on. I noticed others with product and hadn't realized that they were fulfilling. I was able to check login into my pledge manager to see what I was expecting and status. That was when I found out that for whatever reason there was a $4.00 balance for shipping that somehow didn't get charged. I received no notification. It was most likely after a Con when I had to have my credit cards replaced. I fixed it, emailed them and they said no problem (because most people plan for lost products, replacements and typically create an excess of 5-15%.
Artemis Black wrote: If they are claiming to have only made the exact amount of KS boxsets for the pledge manager numbers...
From what I've seen and been told, they ordered enough "Exclusive" boxes as pledges. Those that added additional pledges to their order, only received one actual "Exclusive" box, the rest of the pledges were intact but just only one box. I already said I didn't care about the box. The printing and boxes were created out of house. We were lead to believe that casting is done in-house so in terms of miniatures and even exclusive (since this is resin and not plastic), creating what they need isn't that difficult.
Undead_Love-Machine wrote: Essentially it is an order form, so the creator can see what items the "customer" wants.
In that respect it is very much not arbitrary, unless you think that pledgers would be happy receiving any random figures that add up to their pledge total?
Technically speaking the "Kickstarter survey" is the actual order form. If you notice when other companies do a KS, even those that use pledge managers, they send a survey. The survey is what is used to determine manufacturing as it tends to start way before the PM is completed and closed. That is why when you get a Kickstarter survey from CMoN, it asks what you plan on purchasing but also includes "You not tied down to purchase, this is just so they know roughly to produce".
Even Amazon just as a retail example, says when you utilize them that you plan for 5-10% of extra stock. That stock is used to fulfill damaged goods, mis-shipped, etc. It is completely unheard of to count on 100% accuracy. Just recently Antenocitis Workshop has had to pull retail sales to the US due to male fraud issue. It won't effect the delivery of their KS, but it does effect their retail end and web orders.
I'll give another example. You go to the Furniture and Mattress store to purchase something. You look at the products they offer, pick something out and pay for it. They let you know they'll contact you to facilitate delivery later. That is a KS. You saw a product, promise and had a pledge outlined which you purchased. They already roughly know what I want. (If my money was used for the order, then there should be 2 "extra" boxes. If it wasn't then they should refund it.) Now you wonder why you haven't been contacted in 30 days. You call the store and they say, "Sorry. We left a voicemail mailed out a statement saying if you didn't respond, your money was a donation. Since you didn't respond we had no idea how to delivery it. Sorry".
That statement sounds ridiculous because it puts responsibility and blame solely on a customer, their customer. It is just as bad as AvP Kickstarter where they state, close your pledge managers or we can send. It isn't like they don't have people's emails and in some cases phone numbers. It isn't like they don't have a website (Kickstarter) which gives them direct access to their customers. It is their responsibility to say, "Hey we noticed this is done or completed. We noticed that this hasn't been completed. Can we get your info, etc". It would be completely different situation if they had no way to contact someone but they do. The call from the Furniture store should be, "Sorry we've been trying to get a hold of you and haven't. We just need to confirm that you ordered X,Y and your address for delivery. Great! We'll get that out to you by Z.".
To go a bit further, I'll be quoting and referring direct from Kickstarter.
Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.
Can Kickstarter refund the money if a project is unable to fulfill?
Spoiler:
No. Kickstarter doesn't issue refunds, as transactions are between backers and the creator. In fact, Kickstarter never has the funds at all. When a project is successfully funded, money is transferred directly from backers' credit cards to the project creator's Amazon Payments account. It's up to the creator to issue a refund, which they can do through their Amazon Payments account. (Like PayPal, Amazon Payments allows refunds for 60 days from the date of charge. After 60 days, creators cannot reverse the same charge to backers' credit cards, so to issue refunds they'll need to initiate a new transaction to send money via Amazon Payments or PayPal, send backers a check, or use another method. Our support team has guided creators in how to issue refunds like these before.)
What is Kickstarter doing about fulfillment?
Spoiler:
As Kickstarter has grown, we've made changes to improve accountability and fulfillment. In August 2011 we began requiring creators to list an "Estimated Delivery Date" for all rewards. This was done to make creators think hard about when they could deliver, and to underline that Kickstarter is not a traditional shopping experience.
In May 2012 we added additional guidelines and requirements for Design and Technology projects. These include requiring creators to provide information about their background and experience, a manufacturing plan (for hardware projects), and a functional prototype. We made this change to ensure that creators have done their research before launching and backers have sufficient information when deciding whether to back these projects.
We've also allocated more staff to trust and safety. We look into projects reported by our community for guidelines violations and suspicious activity, and we take action when necessary. These efforts are focused on fraud and acceptable uses of Kickstarter, not a creator's ability to complete a project and fulfill. On Kickstarter, people ultimately decide the validity and worthiness of a project by whether they decide to fund it.
Project creators will send an email survey to request any information they need to deliver you and your fellow backers’ rewards. Survey questions may include shipping address, size, color, or other project-specific preferences.
Surveys are sent by the creator only after a project has been successfully funded, and the funding period is over. Some creators send surveys right away; others wait until they’re ready to deliver rewards. If you think you might have missed a survey email, please log in to your Kickstarter account to check — you’ll see a yellow notification bar at the top of the site for any missed surveys. Once you complete a survey, you'll receive an email confirmation that includes a copy of your responses.
How can I view or change my survey responses?
Spoiler:
If you’ve already submitted your backer survey, you can review your response by visiting the project page and clicking the 'View Pledge' button next to the project image.
Once clicked, if the creator of this project has enabled address changes, you’ll notice an option at the top of this modal (under the Survey tab) that will allow you to edit your shipping information. If the creator has not enabled address changes, or you’d like to modify your responses to any other questions on this survey, reach out to the project creator directly to request your changes.
I haven't gotten my reward yet. What do I do?
Spoiler:
The first step is checking the Estimated Delivery Date on the project page. Backing a project is a lot different than simply ordering a product online, and sometimes projects are in very early stages when they are funded.
If the Estimated Delivery Date has passed, check for project updates that may explain what happened. Sometimes creators hit unexpected roadblocks, or simply underestimate how much work it takes to complete a project. Creators are expected to communicate these setbacks should they happen.
If the creator hasn’t posted an update, send them a direct message to request more information about their progress, or post a public comment on their project asking for a status update.
Most of our Terms of Use explain your relationship with Kickstarter. This section is different — it explains the relationship between creators and backers of Kickstarter projects, and who’s responsible for what. This is what you’re agreeing to when you create or back a Kickstarter project.
Kickstarter provides a funding platform for creative projects. When a creator posts a project on Kickstarter, they’re inviting other people to form a contract with them. Anyone who backs a project is accepting the creator’s offer, and forming that contract.
Kickstarter is not a part of this contract — the contract is a direct legal agreement between creators and their backers. Here are the terms that govern that agreement:
When a project is successfully funded, the creator must complete the project and fulfill each reward. Once a creator has done so, they’ve satisfied their obligation to their backers.
Throughout the process, creators owe their backers a high standard of effort, honest communication, and a dedication to bringing the project to life. At the same time, backers must understand that when they back a project, they’re helping to create something new — not ordering something that already exists. There may be changes or delays, and there’s a chance something could happen that prevents the creator from being able to finish the project as promised.
If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:
they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;
they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe that’s communicated to backers;
they’re able to demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised;
they’ve been honest, and have made no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers; and
they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form.
The creator is solely responsible for fulfilling the promises made in their project. If they’re unable to satisfy the terms of this agreement, they may be subject to legal action by backers.
Artemis Black wrote: If they are claiming to have only made the exact amount of KS boxsets for the pledge manager numbers...
From what I've seen and been told, they ordered enough "Exclusive" boxes as pledges. Those that added additional pledges to their order, only received one actual "Exclusive" box, the rest of the pledges were intact but just only one box. I already said I didn't care about the box. The printing and boxes were created out of house. We were lead to believe that casting is done in-house so in terms of miniatures and even exclusive (since this is resin and not plastic), creating what they need isn't that difficult.
Indeed. And even if it were difficult, you work with the backer to get them whatever you can. Writing in your own 'get out of responsibility free' card is pretty damn shady. Blocking the people you're trying to wave off is just as shady.
( I also had a nose at the 'supporters group' and people seem fine with it. I can only assume FF have laced their pledges with some kind of drug Weirdest group of supporters I've seen yet. )
I understand your point of view entirely, for the avoidance of any doubt I very much hope that you will receive all that you pledged for in a timely fashion. I would be feeling a bit sick if I was in your position.
( I also had a nose at the 'supporters group' and people seem fine with it. I can only assume FF have laced their pledges with some kind of drug Weirdest group of supporters I've seen yet. )
Where is this "supporters group"? It sounds wonderful, maybe I should join?
I understand your point of view entirely, for the avoidance of any doubt I very much hope that you will receive all that you pledged for in a timely fashion. I would be feeling a bit sick if I was in your position.
( I also had a nose at the 'supporters group' and people seem fine with it. I can only assume FF have laced their pledges with some kind of drug Weirdest group of supporters I've seen yet. )
Where is this "supporters group"? It sounds wonderful, maybe I should join?
Dark Severance wrote: Two years after delivery and fulfillment of a KS is completely different than 30 days after they just finished fulfillment. When the first response was all pledges have been sent, just give it a few weeks and wait. Two years later that is definitely an issue with with the backer not following up in a timely manner and completely forgetting about it.
I had an issue with one of Mantic's where my order was completely lost due to a database issue. The way it was explained was the list was exported from backerkit but somehow when they transferred it to fulfillment it was misplaced. That was within 30 days of me noticing everyone was receiving their stuff but I was not. With CMoN I didn't notice it until months later, as there were multiple CMoN KS going on. I noticed others with product and hadn't realized that they were fulfilling. I was able to check login into my pledge manager to see what I was expecting and status. That was when I found out that for whatever reason there was a $4.00 balance for shipping that somehow didn't get charged. I received no notification. It was most likely after a Con when I had to have my credit cards replaced. I fixed it, emailed them and they said no problem (because most people plan for lost products, replacements and typically create an excess of 5-15%.
I am sure we all agree that it is too short of a notice, I am amazed it is not simply a warning shot aimed to motivate people to finally fill their form and the fact they did not sent emails to remind people is quite bad on their part, from the two companies you mention Mantic still owns me miscasts missing models and a dreadball pitch from their first dreadball kickstarter (personally I have stopped caring, but still ask about them from time to time), CMON needed a year to respond to my emails but send most of the missing stuff n the end (ok a 3D door is still missing but I will not be bothered by it).
@Artemis Black
I am not sure about it, it should, but I am not entirely sure it will, time will tell if it will have a significant impact or be a minor thing.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I am sure we all agree that it is too short of a notice, I am amazed it is not simply a warning shot aimed to motivate people to finally fill their form and the fact they did not sent emails to remind people is quite bad on their part...
Yeah it definitely wasn't a warning, that is the default answer that is the fallback. But again the bigger issue for me is since their pledge manager was taken down, no one has a way to verify anything.
PsychoticStorm wrote: Mantic still owns me miscasts missing models and a dreadball pitch from their first dreadball kickstarter (personally I have stopped caring, but still ask about them from time to time), CMON needed a year to respond to my emails but send most of the missing stuff n the end (ok a 3D door is still missing but I will not be bothered by it).
Mantic I resolved my issues by emailing them from their website via their customer service form. It was the only way to get a response and resolution as other methods didn't get a response. With CMoN I did the same thing. I make sure that when I reply, the subject line is changed so they don't "accidentally" thread as a previous email which does contribute to a lot of mail not being responded to in most companies.
I understand your point of view entirely, for the avoidance of any doubt I very much hope that you will receive all that you pledged for in a timely fashion. I would be feeling a bit sick if I was in your position.
( I also had a nose at the 'supporters group' and people seem fine with it. I can only assume FF have laced their pledges with some kind of drug Weirdest group of supporters I've seen yet. )
Where is this "supporters group"? It sounds wonderful, maybe I should join?
Enjoy (ignore the fact they misspelled frontiers and though SS would be a good addition to the url )
I genuinely only just worked out this is a different guy to the BGG one. It didn't click late last night that the BGG guy was French and the group guy is clearly a yank (I'm recovering from the flu is my true but probably not relevant excuse )
I recieved a tasty tax rebate and was maybe going to go for the starter set, however with this donation nonsense and the somewhat rabid fans (which is why I ultimately ended up just leaving a token dollar pledge) I think I'll be giving everything Scale 75 does a wide berth until they get their act together.
Right, 'Kickstarter Exclusives', not 'Kickstarter Exclusives and We're Going to Only Make Exactly How Many Are Ordered and Then Destroy The Molds' Exclusives!
Alpharius wrote: Right, 'Kickstarter Exclusives', not 'Kickstarter Exclusives and We're Going to Only Make Exactly How Many Are Ordered and Then Destroy The Molds' Exclusives!
"Destroy the resin moulds, that we make ourselves and only take half an hr and cost peanuts."
At this time, my current pledges are being addressed. The contact whom has been my contact on the 'manufacturing' side of things for a project has said he is preparing them for me. They say it should have all the miniatures that I was looking for, we'll see how things end up.
Providing that is correct and everything is there... that does go a ways to repair my concerns with them. It may not alleviate others though, that will take time.
I did say in the future, it is in their interest to not do something like this 'donation'. If there are people who haven't closed their pledge managers then email them. Better yet have the pledge manager software have that feature (since they created their own). It should also send a reminder out that it hasn't been completed like most pledge managers do. There were some other suggestions, so hopefully it becomes a learning process that they improve.
Undead_Love-Machine wrote: I like to think it was just a kick up the arse to get people to fill in their pledge managers, rather than a serious threat.
At least, that's how I interpreted it.
I want to like Scale as a company, I really like their product.
They have made mistakes but I'm very much hoping that they eventually will rectify them,
I would definitely have interpreted it that way myself, when the update came out.
After reading that multiple people have contacted them (at least 3 I can see myself) and the 2 who aren't DS here got told 'you get nothing' first then I think that is stretching credulity well past breaking point.
And if 'We're just keeping your money' gets rectified to 'fine, we'll give you some stuff after all' following people kicking up a stink then that's not something that ,for me, earns any brownie points.
No, it certainly hasn't earned them any brownie points!
But I'm willing to give them a chance, because as I say, I like the FF line very much, it's sci fi done in a way that I love, in god's own 35mm scale too
I'm certainly not ready to throw them in my Tony Reidy / Imbrian Arts / Creature Caster don't touch with a 10 foot barge pole pile yet.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Official statement by Scale:
Posted by SCALE GAMES LLC (Creator)
[EN] Hello everyone:
We've almost finished our adventure in KS and there are still some delivery issues caused because some of our backers did not complete the Pledge Manager.
That mandatory condition for all backers caused us delays in production and even incidentals expenses because we didn't know the exact number of pieces to produce.
We did not know the precise quantities to produce, nor the addresses of many, even their gift choices. Logically we had to make a deadline to avoid harming others and we notified all twice that anyone not sending us that information would lose its pledge and money for not fulfilling that minimum information requirement.
However as proof of good will and appreciation for their support, all those backers who did not complete their PM can contact us via fallenfrontiers@gmail.com (just this way) so they can offset the cost of their pledge with products of the retail release of Fallen Frontiers. They can check them through this link and tell us which ones they wish to exchange for the value of their pledge + shipping. All of this should be sent by email before October 10, 2016. From that date we will definitely terminate FF shipments from KS.
We believe this is a more than reasonable compensation for those who breached the obligation to complete the PM. We want you to understand our position and thereby, your monetary contribution is compensated.
I call PR attempt to avoid complete fallout on their move.
I am surprised they tried to pull that, it shows an ignorance on how KS works, I might accepted that if they had the deadline put on the KS multiple times and their pledge manager sent out reminders, but out of the blue, its a bad move from their side.
I do not remember and not that interested to check but, can somebody tell me if they made multiple updates asking for people to complete their pledge manager?
I call PR attempt to avoid complete fallout on their move.
I am surprised they tried to pull that, it shows an ignorance on how KS works, I might accepted that if they had the deadline put on the KS multiple times and their pledge manager sent out reminders, but out of the blue, its a bad move from their side.
I do not remember and not that interested to check but, can somebody tell me if they made multiple updates asking for people to complete their pledge manager?
What IS in dispute is their 'donation/gift' take on things.
It is most likely NOT actually 'legal' to do that and it is definitely NOT a smart play in terms of customer service.
Especially when there's a real easy solution - email the people that haven't filled it out, and/or keep the pledge manager 'open' but 'locked' so everyone's history is still there to view.
Anyway, I hope that those affected are happy with this solution and eventually get (most of) their stuff - it is rather nice!
The minis are nice, the art is nice, everything else about this has been a total clusterfeth.
In the interest of balance I'll give my opinion on the whole thing, for what it's worth. Since I received my figures from the KS I was so pleased with them that I have since hunted down some other pledges on ebay to increase my collection, so I have a number of different units from each faction now.
1) The art is well done, it helps draw me into the FF world and want to know more about it. Each race has a strong theme.
2) The figures are amazing. Many of the Riffs and some of the Harvesters are some of my favourite sci fi minis from the past 27 years. Seriously, I think that they are that good.
3) The value is amazing. As you yourself have mentioned in this very thread Arty, receiving so many hand cast resin minis for the price we paid is insane.
4) I can't talk about the rules or the scenery, I haven't looked at either in any detail. It's just gravy to me, hopefully one day I'll get a game going with a friend, but until then it's "just" a painting project.
5) Regarding the issue with people missing the pledge deadline, it was handled very very badly. I imagine it was partly born of frustration and partly due to financial reasons, but there is no real reason why they couldn't have chased up each of the backers who hadn't locked down their pledge via email. They are taking steps to rectify the issue now, so we will see how that plays out.
Having just got back from the university gaming club, I can say the game went down well. It was the 3rd game I have played of it, and it plays fairly rapidly, though there are issues here and there with translation, or an inconsistency with a use of a term. There are some other errata that I am pushing Scale for, but, playing as it is so far, with factions as close to the retail core box (I have a few different heroes to the retail set) the game comes to some very close conclusions, and is in no way one sided.
Those players who have tried it out, and have experience of 40k etc, have noted the novelty of the turn sequence leading to important, meaningful choices in game play, and how the card decks can lead to some interesting tactics and results, which adds another tactical element to the game, and a lot of replay value with just the base game. Also, the focus on objectives is good, as the resource element of the game again helps distinguish factions and powers the card part of the game.
Having played all GW games since 1994-2005, Warmachine and Hordes, Rackham games, BMG, and rpgs etc, Scale 75 has got a novel system here that makes for dynamic gameplay, with fairly simple rules where the depth comes from the turn sequence and cards, which doesn't feel clunky with too many different range modifiers etc the Infinity likes to use.
The minis are nice, the art is nice, everything else about this has been a total clusterfeth.
In the interest of balance I'll give my opinion on the whole thing, for what it's worth. Since I received my figures from the KS I was so pleased with them that I have since hunted down some other pledges on ebay to increase my collection, so I have a number of different units from each faction now.
1) The art is well done, it helps draw me into the FF world and want to know more about it. Each race has a strong theme.
2) The figures are amazing. Many of the Riffs and some of the Harvesters are some of my favourite sci fi minis from the past 27 years. Seriously, I think that they are that good.
3) The value is amazing. As you yourself have mentioned in this very thread Arty, receiving so many hand cast resin minis for the price we paid is insane.
4) I can't talk about the rules or the scenery, I haven't looked at either in any detail. It's just gravy to me, hopefully one day I'll get a game going with a friend, but until then it's "just" a painting project.
5) Regarding the issue with people missing the pledge deadline, it was handled very very badly. I imagine it was partly born of frustration and partly due to financial reasons, but there is no real reason why they couldn't have chased up each of the backers who hadn't locked down their pledge via email. They are taking steps to rectify the issue now, so we will see how that plays out.
1&2 - Yup, the art and sculpting are good to great. The sculpting is easier 'because' they're larger, which is what started the whole weirdness way back when but that doesn't take away from ti being good to great too.
3 - The KS main box was great value, even at retail it's still good value for what you get. The boxed combat sets are slightly worse but still decent. The heroes are mental 18 euros for production resin is just a straight up no. You could 'maybe' get away with that if you were just selling the heroes but on the same site as the regular stuff and being like 5-6 times the price. No. Crazy talk, that's painter prices which will kill any chance the game has of taking off.
4. Me either. I skimmed the rulebook when my pledge arrived, was annoyed by grammatical and language errors and as I had no time to play a new game anyway it went on a shelf. Hopefully the peopel who bought it enjoy it but this aint the next 40k or anything.
5. I'm about as far 'out' as can be after that. Being gak at running a KS is one thing, being shady is another. This was (and to some extent stil is) the latter.
I'll miss discussing this I think Was quite the ride.
Seems like an interesting concept that - not surprisingly - needs some additional translating/editing/FAQing/errata-ing too to really get it to where it needs to be.
Any place to get this besides strictly through Scale 75? Interested in jumping in but overseas shipping is half again as much as the game.
And yes I know those outside the States deal with this constantly and I don't mind biting the bullet on it once. Just want to make sure there's not somewhere locally to get it before I blow that extra money.
You might try the forums and or the Facebook group. There were a few people selling their pledges off as well as extras.
They used to have a warehouse in the US, it was located in Texas doing distribution. However the person doing that is no longer doing that. I am not sure it ever was transferred over to someone else in the US. Those items would ship out from scalegames.com.
I understand that they promised it and should have delivered it, I just find DVDs an odd thing to offer at the present day, most of those that will use the contents will use it on a device that does not have a DVD player like a tablet releasing it as files to download sounds like a better choice in my opinion.
Maybe they meant it would be a download but a DVD if they massively overfunded and just decided to say DVD as a totally understandable shortcut?
Or maybe you did get a DVD but you didn't notice because it is only 2mm wide and Europeans measure DVDs to the nose?.
Or maybe you missed the message hidden in update 712 where they said if you didn't do a tap dance wearing a sombrero then they would donate your DVD to an african village?
PsychoticStorm wrote: I understand that they promised it and should have delivered it, I just find DVDs an odd thing to offer at the present day, most of those that will use the contents will use it on a device that does not have a DVD player like a tablet releasing it as files to download sounds like a better choice in my opinion.
I'm not sure how you can make definitive statements like that.
Anyway, they said we'd get a DVD, I wanted a DVD, we're not getting a DVD.
I did not perceive it as a definite statement, but you might be right, my reasoning is that dvd as a medium is in steady decline, most people use a tablet for their media consumption.
Especially in our industries target audience tech levels are high so my assumption is that a dvd is more of a nuisance than a desired thing.
I fully agree on them promising and not delivering though, I thought I made it clear from the start.
Here you have a link for watching the 30 minutes Sayx painting process. The rest faction processes will be available very soon. Thanks all for your support
Here you have a link for watching the 30 minutes Riffs painting process. The rest faction processes will be available very soon. Thanks all for your support.
Blaze is a rock on the battlefield. His ability to increase his unit's armor turns a now fearsome Ares squad into a real nightmare. But be careful, his resistance and his heavy weapon will make him the priority target of you opponent most offensive cards and units!!
I've finally managed to go through my Kickstarter shipment and I am missing a lot of Riffs miniatures.
What is missing:
I went with the Sayx vs. Riffs box, and ALL of the Riffs minis are not here.
Fink Dradd
Sihlas Fenn
1 Officer
1 Heavy Weapon
5 Assault Troopers
10 Riffs troopers
ALL of the Riffs 'add ons' I purchased were in the box though, as were all of the Sayx and Ares add ons.
Not sure how this happened, but it looks like I was sent 'extra' Ares troopers by mistake instead.
Given how...spotty their customer service has been so far, and given that I've reported this to them 2 to 3 months since the package arrived, I am not hopeful that this will be resolved to my satisfaction!
Yes, I was late in looking through it by 2 or 3 months - but they were also 13 months late in shipping it to me!
I've finally managed to go through my Kickstarter shipment and I am missing a lot of Riffs miniatures.
What is missing:
I went with the Sayx vs. Riffs box, and ALL of the Riffs minis are not here.
Fink Dradd
Sihlas Fenn
1 Officer
1 Heavy Weapon
5 Assault Troopers
10 Riffs troopers
ALL of the Riffs 'add ons' I purchased were in the box though, as were all of the Sayx and Ares add ons.
Not sure how this happened, but it looks like I was sent 'extra' Ares troopers by mistake instead.
Given how...spotty their customer service has been so far, and given that I've reported this to them 2 to 3 months since the package arrived, I am not hopeful that this will be resolved to my satisfaction!
Yes, I was late in looking through it by 2 or 3 months - but they were also 13 months late in shipping it to me!
Anyone have anything similar happen to them here?
I haven't opened mine yet (I opened the box, I haven't opened any of the packets of resin etc)
There's enough...room for error that it is worth checking out, and they've (apparently) made good on the mistakes made for me, so...
Fine! I'll dig out the box and have a nose.
It's probably in the pile with the CMON kickstarters I just assume are all there. One of those I haven't even opened the shi[pping box , they could have mailed me a brick
As far as I know they have a wharehouse in Texas that handles US sales. I don't know if they are in with any actual distributors although awhile back I heard they had deals with Alliance but haven't followed up on that much.
Their USA website for orders did change, these are sent domestic mail via USPS.
I haven't had a chance to play the game yet - or really even get a good read of the rules in - but the miniatures are very nice, and the casts are fantastic...
Alpharius wrote: I haven't had a chance to play the game yet - or really even get a good read of the rules in - but the miniatures are very nice, and the casts are fantastic...
For sure, I could think of many games to use the models for, I just think the game itself was a flop. No ones really talking about it or playing it as far as ive seen on da webs
The fact that you can't find even one video of two people playing it on Youtube is pretty telling.
I do love the models though and want to pick it up. Just want to be sure the heavy suits come out before I do and I'll probably grab it. The rules are intriguing.
Just wondering if people are still playing this game.
Only bought my first figures two Months ago.
Got to say the quality is great.
Been finding it hard to get certain items from the range though.
Anyone selling what they got,UK based?
I was just about to pop in here and say something similar!
Love the miniatures, and the quality of the material and casts was fantastic - it's just a shame that Scale 75 doesn't appear to have any interest in doing anything more with the range...
Scale 75 USA has dropped the prices on the range.
Sayx combat forces seem to be the hardest to get a hold of.
Shame the other two vehicles were not released.
