Slayer le boucher wrote:
I'm pretty sure the Grimoir text is a typo, it does make little sens, no matters how many time i try to wrap my head around it.

So I'm reading the grimoire, as basically, take a grimoire bearer (a herald) and he allows your warlord(whoever) to get all of the tzeentch powers, if he Only rolls up tzeentch powers. Which is a very weird item..

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
I'm pretty sure the Grimoir text is a typo, it does make little sens, no matters how many time i try to wrap my head around it.

So I'm reading the grimoire, as basically, take a grimoire bearer (a herald) and he allows your warlord(whoever) to get all of the tzeentch powers, if he Only rolls up tzeentch powers. Which is a very weird item..

Yep that's pretty much the RAW as I read it too. Which is indeed weird as it's an artefact giving a personal benefit but which can affect a completely different model other than the bearer. And for it to work your Warlord must be a ML1 Tzeentch Daemon.

It doesn't have to be mastery level 1.

Perhaps the way to use it is to have one herald with the unending grimoire, and another ML1 herald being your Warlord and taking the Paradox artefact for guaranteed casting of Prismatic Gaze or WC3 Flickering Fire with 5 psychic dice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
It doesn't have to be mastery level 1.

Doesn't it have to generate a power from a different discipline if it's more than ML1?

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
It doesn't have to be mastery level 1.

From this example taken from CD codex i disagree. The true question is can I take unending Grimoire to my HoT and take a LoC lvl 2 so he can learn the whole discipline? Plus add paradox to him, profit afterwards.

 avedominusnox wrote:

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
It doesn't have to be mastery level 1.

From this example taken from CD codex i disagree. The true question is can I take unending Grimoire to my HoT and take a LoC lvl 2 so he can learn the whole discipline? Plus add paradox to him, profit afterwards.

No because the ML2 LoC would have to generate one power from either Divination or Malefic meaning he won't qualify for the Unending Grimoire benefit. Which is unfortunate.

Yeah.. for the grimoire to make sense, it has to override that restriction.

 Tonberry7 wrote:

 avedominusnox wrote:

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
It doesn't have to be mastery level 1.

From this example taken from CD codex i disagree. The true question is can I take unending Grimoire to my HoT and take a LoC lvl 2 so he can learn the whole discipline? Plus add paradox to him, profit afterwards.

No because the ML2 LoC would have to generate one power from either Divination or Malefic meaning he won't qualify for the Unending Grimoire benefit. Which is unfortunate.

Yes this is correct. So ML 1 LoC? Damn.

I'm becoming more and more of the opinion that RAI for Daemons now no longer includes the half generation restriction. For example, the unending grimoire doesn't make any sense otherwise because you can't ever generate all of your powerS <- emphasis on the "s" from tzeentch. Ever. Period. You can only ever do just one, which would not be powers plural. It'll be interesting to see how things shake out in that respect because it would definitely be a Daemons buff if the community adopts that interpretation; however its hardly like Daemons really needed it. So much good stuff in the Codex already and now the Daemonic Incursion and relics and new psychic powers only add to that, even if you use the half generation interpretation.

Is that restriction still there? Or has it been removed in the newest printing?

It's still there.

 avedominusnox wrote:

 Tonberry7 wrote:

 avedominusnox wrote:

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
It doesn't have to be mastery level 1.

From this example taken from CD codex i disagree. The true question is can I take unending Grimoire to my HoT and take a LoC lvl 2 so he can learn the whole discipline? Plus add paradox to him, profit afterwards.

No because the ML2 LoC would have to generate one power from either Divination or Malefic meaning he won't qualify for the Unending Grimoire benefit. Which is unfortunate.

Yes this is correct. So ML 1 LoC? Damn.

Sadly it's a no to this as well as the LoC is ML2 as standard. Which is also unfortunate.

 Tonberry7 wrote:

 avedominusnox wrote:

 Tonberry7 wrote:

 avedominusnox wrote:

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
It doesn't have to be mastery level 1.

From this example taken from CD codex i disagree. The true question is can I take unending Grimoire to my HoT and take a LoC lvl 2 so he can learn the whole discipline? Plus add paradox to him, profit afterwards.

No because the ML2 LoC would have to generate one power from either Divination or Malefic meaning he won't qualify for the Unending Grimoire benefit. Which is unfortunate.

Yes this is correct. So ML 1 LoC? Damn.

Sadly it's a no to this as well as the LoC is ML2 as standard. Which is also unfortunate.

stomping on our dreams at every corner!

 avedominusnox wrote:
From this example taken from CD codex i disagree. The true question is can I take unending Grimoire to my HoT and take a LoC lvl 2 so he can learn the whole discipline? Plus add paradox to him, profit afterwards.

Quick question to anyone that might already have the Curse of the Wulfen book: does it have any "Generating Psychic Powers" section like this one? Or any explanation on how to use the new Psychic Powers whatsoever? Or does it simply list them?

Well, here's my interpretation. The new tables in CotW replace the Psychic Powers section from Codex Daemons, and don't reprint that rule. So if you take it as the whole section is replaced, then you can roll 3 powers from the same table. If you take it as just the tables got replaced, then maybe that rule is still in place? I don't know how to interpret it.

Either way, I wouldn't take it. If I'm playing Tzeentch, I'm taking Kairos as my Warlord and he makes it worthless.

Requizen wrote:
Well, here's my interpretation. The new tables in CotW replace the Psychic Powers section from Codex Daemons, and don't reprint that rule. So if you take it as the whole section is replaced, then you can roll 3 powers from the same table. If you take it as just the tables got replaced, then maybe that rule is still in place? I don't know how to interpret it.

Either way, I wouldn't take it. If I'm playing Tzeentch, I'm taking Kairos as my Warlord and he makes it worthless.

Yeah, but it would be nice to have two strength D shots on FMC platforms.

Avadar wrote:

 avedominusnox wrote:
From this example taken from CD codex i disagree. The true question is can I take unending Grimoire to my HoT and take a LoC lvl 2 so he can learn the whole discipline? Plus add paradox to him, profit afterwards.

Quick question to anyone that might already have the Curse of the Wulfen book: does it have any "Generating Psychic Powers" section like this one? Or any explanation on how to use the new Psychic Powers whatsoever? Or does it simply list them?

From the leaked scans it just looks to be the tables with no instructions on how to generate powers. So unfortunately it looks like the codex instructions will still apply.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vercingatorix wrote:

 Tonberry7 wrote:

 avedominusnox wrote:

 Tonberry7 wrote:

 avedominusnox wrote:

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
It doesn't have to be mastery level 1.

From this example taken from CD codex i disagree. The true question is can I take unending Grimoire to my HoT and take a LoC lvl 2 so he can learn the whole discipline? Plus add paradox to him, profit afterwards.

No because the ML2 LoC would have to generate one power from either Divination or Malefic meaning he won't qualify for the Unending Grimoire benefit. Which is unfortunate.

Yes this is correct. So ML 1 LoC? Damn.

Sadly it's a no to this as well as the LoC is ML2 as standard. Which is also unfortunate.

stomping on our dreams at every corner!

Believe me, I wish this weren't the case. But it does mean the warlord is free to take a different artefact like Paradox.

A level 1 Prince with all the tzeentch powers and the impossible robes, would be alright as a warlord. Especially if he got the +1 invun trait.

Avadar wrote:

 avedominusnox wrote:
From this example taken from CD codex i disagree. The true question is can I take unending Grimoire to my HoT and take a LoC lvl 2 so he can learn the whole discipline? Plus add paradox to him, profit afterwards.

Quick question to anyone that might already have the Curse of the Wulfen book: does it have any "Generating Psychic Powers" section like this one? Or any explanation on how to use the new Psychic Powers whatsoever? Or does it simply list them?

Have the book in hands, nothing is ever mentioned on how you generate those powers, or even if there is any change in any form about how you generate your powers, unlike with the Traits and Artifacts where it is explained, Psy powers as no mention of it.

So Mono-Slaanesh:

Am I wrong in thinking that Seeker Chariots might actually be worth it now? Move 12", Flat out +6", Fast +6", Daemon of Slaanesh +3", Cavalcade Formation + 6" = 33" of movement turn 1. With 3D6 S4/AP-/Rending hits at I10 for a mere 40 pts each. Then you have the Warpstorm manipulation granting in a 4+ invulnerable save 25% of the time. Even before taking into account Psychic powers. All for 310 pts?

Or drop a 120 daemonettes with the 12" of re-rolling to hit bubble from the first formation for 1,100 pts. Then take 35 pts of Furies, and....3 KOS for under 1,800 pts. I'd take 4 but the hosed us on the command option, so no monster mash. I guess I'll have to run a CAD if I want to go really MC heavy.

It's 1D6 per remaining hull point. Not 1 plus 1D6 for each hull point. Also yes they are damn fast. And rhino equivalent armor. I said it before and will do again, mono Slaanesh for decurion is the name of game. Fiends are not worth it though. 6 x 10 daemonettes, 2 steed heralds with upgrades, 20 seekers and 5 seeker chariots. Fill the rest and boom, so many bodies and amazingly fast. I m not convinced from KoS yet.

 avedominusnox wrote:
It's 1D6 per remaining hull point. Not 1 plus 1D6 for each hull point. Also yes they are damn fast. And rhino equivalent armor. I said it before and will do again, mono Slaanesh for decurion is the name of game. Fiends are not worth it though. 6 x 10 daemonettes, 2 steed heralds with upgrades, 20 seekers and 5 seeker chariots. Fill the rest and boom, so many bodies and amazingly fast. I m not convinced from KoS yet.

Well, 2HP = 2D6 S4/AP-/Rending Attacks +1D6 additional hits from the formation rule = 3D6 HOW attacks assuming they don't lose any HP. While that's not likely to happen given AV11 open topped. Its still far better than before. Mine used to die horribly, or make combat with 1HP remaining. 1D6 HOW does nothing really. But at least with the formation it preserves their leathality if they survive to make combat. Which should be easier now.

I pretty much agree on Feinds, they haven't been worth it since their nerfing. Man, if we had the old version now: 6 S5 attacks on the charge, hit & run, and S6 on the pack leader. That said -5I is still useful if you combo charge especially with the formations -1WS/-1I; plus they'll be in range of the Loci of Beguilement as well. Maybe run 3X MSU units up the board with your chariots and seekers. Charge them in first to reduce the enemies I and eat the over-watch. Then deep strike in 3 20X Daemonette squads of the seekers icon.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

Avadar wrote:

 avedominusnox wrote:
From this example taken from CD codex i disagree. The true question is can I take unending Grimoire to my HoT and take a LoC lvl 2 so he can learn the whole discipline? Plus add paradox to him, profit afterwards.

Quick question to anyone that might already have the Curse of the Wulfen book: does it have any "Generating Psychic Powers" section like this one? Or any explanation on how to use the new Psychic Powers whatsoever? Or does it simply list them?

Have the book in hands, nothing is ever mentioned on how you generate those powers, or even if there is any change in any form about how you generate your powers, unlike with the Traits and Artifacts where it is explained, Psy powers as no mention of it.

In a system with just 3 spells and a primaris, I can see the point of restrictions so a lv3 psycher cant aoutomaticly get all the powers.
But with these larger tables, I really dont see the point. And it should not be hard to ignore it in friendly games at least.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

Avadar wrote:

 avedominusnox wrote:
From this example taken from CD codex i disagree. The true question is can I take unending Grimoire to my HoT and take a LoC lvl 2 so he can learn the whole discipline? Plus add paradox to him, profit afterwards.

Quick question to anyone that might already have the Curse of the Wulfen book: does it have any "Generating Psychic Powers" section like this one? Or any explanation on how to use the new Psychic Powers whatsoever? Or does it simply list them?

Have the book in hands, nothing is ever mentioned on how you generate those powers, or even if there is any change in any form about how you generate your powers, unlike with the Traits and Artifacts where it is explained, Psy powers as no mention of it.

Given that this is basically a new codex then, you would use the standard way of generating that's in the BRB? With all they've re-printed from the old codex, it seems odd they would specifically require you to have it _just_ for generating the powers.

 Sersi wrote:

 avedominusnox wrote:
It's 1D6 per remaining hull point. Not 1 plus 1D6 for each hull point. Also yes they are damn fast. And rhino equivalent armor. I said it before and will do again, mono Slaanesh for decurion is the name of game. Fiends are not worth it though. 6 x 10 daemonettes, 2 steed heralds with upgrades, 20 seekers and 5 seeker chariots. Fill the rest and boom, so many bodies and amazingly fast. I m not convinced from KoS yet.

Well, 2HP = 2D6 S4/AP-/Rending Attacks +1D6 additional hits from the formation rule = 3D6 HOW attacks assuming they don't lose any HP. While that's not likely to happen given AV11 open topped. Its still far better than before. Mine used to die horribly, or make combat with 1HP remaining. 1D6 HOW does nothing really. But at least with the formation it preserves their leathality if they survive to make combat. Which should be easier now.

I pretty much agree on Feinds, they haven't been worth it since their nerfing. Man, if we had the old version now: 6 S5 attacks on the charge, hit & run, and S6 on the pack leader. That said -5I is still useful if you combo charge especially with the formations -1WS/-1I; plus they'll be in range of the Loci of Beguilement as well. Maybe run 3X MSU units up the board with your chariots and seekers. Charge them in first to reduce the enemies I and eat the over-watch. Then deep strike in 3 20X Daemonette squads of the seekers icon.

What formation give the chariots an extra D6 hammer of wrath?
Also about to generate powers. Let's take this example, before the FAQ allowing daemons to learn malefic, horrors new only change discipline. Ok if they are lvl 1 the know one. If the get 11 they learn a second one which could be rolled on where? Assuming they got 16 and then lvl 3 then they could roll two powers on change and the third?

Deleted, wrong page

 avedominusnox wrote:

Also about to generate powers. Let's take this example, before the FAQ allowing daemons to learn malefic, horrors new only change discipline. Ok if they are lvl 1 the know one. If the get 11 they learn a second one which could be rolled on where? Assuming they got 16 and then lvl 3 then they could roll two powers on change and the third?

Horrors are only ever ML1 - their special rule just changes the number of Warp Charges they generate.

As this is now out this thread is locked.

Further discussions in the relevant boards please.

New thread(s) as/when/if there's anything new.