As Rihgu said, also Stryx, some Orders, Mounted Squires are supposed to come this year. Centaur Avatara were delayed for unknown reasons, and were originally supposed to release march 2020.
Found out how difficult it is to crack Dweghom today. Even with flurry, couldn't lay a scratch on their shiny armor. Guess I need to figure out how to get more cleave/ap in an orc list.
I work at Tabletop Gaming and Miniature Wargames magazine/website and we talk with the team at Parabellum regularly. What sort of content would interest you most for Conquest?
We've just done an unboxing on the new W’adrhŭn Warband Set over on YouTube and ran a paint workshop 2 weeks back with their pro painter on the Rage X Fire set, we love showcasing their stuff but want to make sure it's more of what you'd want so let me know below and I'll try to make some of it happen!
Recurring comments on Discord mention there aren't many battle reports on youtube, particularly First Blood or how to play (explaining all the steps from the start).
I barely watch any wargame stuff on youtube, but maybe that could be a good option?
emanuelb wrote: Wow, I've got to have those sentinels !!. Are they gonna be released this summer ?
They are part of the current catalogue which is up to June but there were already some delays, like with the Warbred, so summer may or may not be a good guess. Although because they are resin, which is produced in Greece, unlike plastics, it may actually not matter and they will be available sooner.
Got a sprue of Pheromancer and here he is. Never liked the blade on the end of his staff so I cut it off. Also, decided not to glue that piece with vials etc.
Hey guys. I recently quit 40k mainly because of the absolute dumpster fire that is Games Workshop. Looking for a non-GW mini game that has a low model count and doesn't require 4-6 hours for a single match. I prefer the fantasy scene over sci-fi. Does this game fit the bill?
BDBurrow wrote: Hey guys. I recently quit 40k mainly because of the absolute dumpster fire that is Games Workshop. Looking for a non-GW mini game that has a low model count and doesn't require 4-6 hours for a single match. I prefer the fantasy scene over sci-fi. Does this game fit the bill?
Rules, army lists and army builder are free. You can check out here the Skirmish version (First Blood):
First Blood can easily be played with a dozen minis (sometimes up to 30 or even more, depending on the list and points... up to you!).
Games are faster and more interactive than the standard gw.
BDBurrow wrote: Hey guys. I recently quit 40k mainly because of the absolute dumpster fire that is Games Workshop. Looking for a non-GW mini game that has a low model count and doesn't require 4-6 hours for a single match. I prefer the fantasy scene over sci-fi. Does this game fit the bill?
Guys here already mentioned First Blood which is a skirmish version of rank&file Conquest, but there is nothing preventing you playing Conquest with smaller points limit and still enjoy it. There are even battle reports on YT that are played with like 4 Regiments (squads) and 2 Characters (heroes) per side. Rules are really felxible, and as mentioned they are free so you can read them and test them with your existing minis (creating some proxy stands or even simply counting every 4 minis as a stand). Go visit their site and read the lore, which is great and may influence your choice of army/armies
I go over balance quite a bit. Here I have dug out Conquest vs Age of Sigmar to highlight just how much better the balance in Conquest is vs AOS with a visual representation of actual data.
The first graphic with all the pink dots... thats my AOS data. Notice how it truly looks like a shotgun blast across the screen.
The blue line represents based on output what something SHOULD cost. In Age of Sigmar... that blue line is basically ignored and the point costs seem very arbitrary (believe it or not 40k is about 1.5x worse and even more spread out)
The next graphic overlays AOS with Conquest. The green dots in the second graphic are the currently released Conquest points. Notice how they are a lot closer to the blue line.
While neither is perfect, this is showing visually based off of math output the actual mathematical difference in the tightness of balance between the two games.
I went over this system on my youtube channel. Tomorrow will discuss where the new spire centaur models land on this line and how the spires are doing overall:
https://youtu.be/U410yfaEAYI
Interested to hear your thoughts on the Centaur Avatara!
I saw that you had rated the Ice Jotnar as overcosted but hadn't factored in a few things... did you change your algorithm to reflect that at all? Or do you think the Ice Jotnar is a unique enough case that it can be ignored for the purposes of what this graph is meant to showcase?
The Ice Jotnar is slightly above what I consider to be "in parity". So its not a bad choice, just not the cutting edge of optimal. Also important to note, that the analysis on him does not reflect his spell casting as he is kind of a hybrid monster / character. His spell casting is definitely something that I feel brings him more in line with point costed just right, but again even without spell casting included, he's only marginally above the "efficiency line" so I would still include one in my games. With items like this I am considering adding entries to include individual spells so you can see what adding the spell does.
My army builder I had written for the game does all of that but I mothballed it due to no interest because of their official online builder, and I had to move my efforts to a different project. I may dust that off for some future battle reports.
EDIT: also I found a mistake in my beastpack analysis (i miskeyed an input) that I found this morning which changed the shape of my graph a bit which I will talk about in tomorrow's analysis. (whoops!) - that did affect the ice jotnar's placement.
Correct, playtesting has not begun yet. They just finished several versions of the rules (so the playtesters are going to be playing with multiple variations of the army rules). They have been playtesting the newly restructured First Blood rules primarily up until today.
Apex Predator is forthcoming I have a battletech series I'm doing, then I plan on circling back and doing the Apex Predator.
I have a prediction on how they'll play (at least with the early released units) but since there's no way anybody would confirm/deny my predictions posting them would just be a risk of egg on my face if they turn out wrong!
I just started a 100k side army but gosh I probably should have saved myself some money and held off for Old Dominion.
They did give hints on how they will play during the happy hour video, with their core mechanic being getting extra bonuses as the units start dying.
Lore-wise, these undead contain a portion of Hazlia's power and release it when destroyed. But it is not lost, rather it seeks a new entity.
auticus wrote: There are quite a few UK players. I'm in a UK facebook chat group with some. Look up the Resin Bunker.
It does not look like The Resin Bunker have an online shop.
Last posts on FB seem to be June.
Took the step into the game and have ordered the main starter set along with the Dwarf and Nord start collecting boxes along with quite a few other bits and pieces.
Anyone have forces for these faction and could give some tips on what to get as must have characters or units?
Nords competitively are centered around the trolls. Mountain Jotnars got a nice boost so are pretty good. That likely changes as things start getting more fleshed out.
Sounds like i will be needing some Mountain Jotnars then .
Got a pack of Trolls on the way.How many packs do people normally run?
Any idea on where the three buildings are from in tone of the old videos?House,ruined house and what looks to be a Dweghom building?
When I was playing against the competitive guys earlier this year they would typically run two blooded and each had six troll stands with them (so four boxes). That was on TTS though where cost and everything wasn't an issue.
Also bear in mind that with each release of the model lines, things change. So I'd advise against going all hog wild on something only to have it get kicked in the chuff a bit on another future release.
My friend runs a truly nasty list with an Eccentric (it's a mastery upgrade for a character) Blooded packing 2 troll units and an Ice Jotnar. This is the warlord's warband.
Then he brings a second Blooded with stalkers and Fenr beastpacks. 100% of the army has flank, so it all comes in entirely predictably and he can plan his turns out very well. Super nasty.
Thanks for the reply's and tips on what people are using.
I think i would like to have a good mix of troops rather then just certain types that make the game less interesting.
Also wondering about the Holiday Bonus sets.It say's that there is a surprise in them.Any idea on what that is?
auticus wrote: Sadly the rest of the nord army is kind of left behind the blooded and his zoo lol.
For now. Ulfhednar and Bearsarks will add a little life to Jarls/Konungyrs/Shamans. So maybe latter half of 2022 we'll see those and Nord players can finally buy something new
Just got my Ice Jotnar and Fenr Beast pack boxes.Also got the card set and was wondering if you are supposed to get two double cards in the set?
Going to start on the Fenr Beastpack Today.They look like really nice figures.
auticus wrote: Sadly the rest of the nord army is kind of left behind the blooded and his zoo lol.
For now. Ulfhednar and Bearsarks will add a little life to Jarls/Konungyrs/Shamans. So maybe latter half of 2022 we'll see those and Nord players can finally buy something new
Steelchosen also seem to be a bit tasty but I have not crunched their numbers.
auticus wrote: Sadly the rest of the nord army is kind of left behind the blooded and his zoo lol.
For now. Ulfhednar and Bearsarks will add a little life to Jarls/Konungyrs/Shamans. So maybe latter half of 2022 we'll see those and Nord players can finally buy something new
Steelchosen also seem to be a bit tasty but I have not crunched their numbers.
Blade-chosen with savage seem insanely good. Can't really figure out what Steel-chosen are supposed to be/do (mechanically/gameplay-wise)? In talking with my friend who plays Nords he doesn't have any interest in them. They're a poor man's trolls if you for some reason refuse to play a Blooded.
Flavor / narrative gamer. I fall into that category. I wanted to do a viking themed nord army, thats what got me excited about them.
However right now all of the things that prevent me from getting tabled are in the blooded camp, so I can't really run the army I want to run.
Same thing happened to me in the warhammer world. I loved chaos warriors, and they have basically always been trash and you had to run other things instead.
Ohhh that's pretty fair. I guess I'm pretty much in a similar camp with W'adrhun where I want to run infantry with dinos as support but all of their infantry are... very not good.
Are huscarls not working for you to stop being tabled? D2+shield+bastion upgrade is preetty sturdy.
Huscarls are like men at arms for 100k. They are an ok baseline platforming unit but you need to have some solid hammer units as well, which is why nords need the blooded and his troops.
I'd like to get some hammer viking units in there.
Whadrun infantry can get pretty jacked when those warchants start going, especially their chosen.
manic _miner wrote: What size games do you normally play and what are your force lists like?
I have mostly played 1500 point games but the most common I've seen is 2000. I've been playing in an escalation league so haven't gotten a high point game in in a while but my list usually looks like:
Predator riding Raptor (Warlord)
Raptor riders regiments until I run out of points
things change as models come out (didn't used to run the Apex Predators, will run Drum Beasts and Quatl as soon as they come out. Will revamp the list a LOT when the good infantry (veterans, chosen) come out for my faction
I think i will aim to get a force together for the First Blood game.That maybe a better starting point for me to get into the larger scale game later on.
There is a tournament that will be doing games with 750 points.Might make it easier to get to grips with the miniatures that way.Instead of trying to get larger forces together and painted.
More miniatures due to arrive Today.Going to be very busy building it all.
The Dwarf Thane kit is really nice.Made up a Dragon Slayer from it so far.Got two more clipped off that need cleaning and put together.They are quite tall for Dwarves.but i have to say i do like the style of them.
manic _miner wrote: I think i will aim to get a force together for the First Blood game.That maybe a better starting point for me to get into the larger scale game later on.
There is a tournament that will be doing games with 750 points.Might make it easier to get to grips with the miniatures that way.Instead of trying to get larger forces together and painted.
This is what a friend and I did -- if we ever get it on the table. Love the models, the lore, but wanted something more manageable. Plus it is a bit beyond a skirmish game in its own right,
it scales up to "platoon" or small-squad skirmish it seems. Not just 7 models on the table in First Blood, you've got plenty to paint depending on point size.
Let us know how you like it. We're really trying to get it on the table in January.
Looking forward to seeing what i can use in a 750 point game of First Blood.Should have plenty of things to choose from when all of my orders arrive.
Any idea on what will be next for the Nords?
Is the campaign book still usable or will it be redundant when the new rules come out?
Details no; cannot go over those. When it comes out I will happily go over my thoughts on my conquest channel on youtube though.
I'm hoping it shapes out great because I love weaving in skirmish scale battles with my main battles. I wrote a skirmish system for conquest before the first first-blood for campaign - attaching here.
A couple of the scenarios here made its way to their scenario contest and won - I *think* those will be released in an "official" scenario pack.
Rihgu wrote: Nords are going to be waiting until Q3-Q4 for new stuff since they got so many recent releases. Same for Spires.
Well that should give me time to get what i have and what is still to come put together at least .
Had three different orders arrive Today.So happy about the Nord faction.The Huscarl miniatures are really well detailed and great figures in general.The sculpting seems to be getting better all of the time.Got one made-up along with a Troll ( I thought they might have been bigger).
Going to have to put the Dweghom away to concentrate on the Nords.
Also ordered the Conquest Companion book to read about the setting.
Watched/listened to some of Aticus's video's.Shame the Nord player forgot to deploy him Giants until later on in the game.
Been flicking through the rule book which came with the two player starter set.Some very nice artwork in it.Is that a picture of a Werewolf at around page 58 or so?
1.5.1 rules dropped and hoo boy does it feel like they took Nords down a peg too far. Dweghom deserve the bump up but it feels like Dweghom are going to ignore objective play in the opposite direction and go for tabling via ranged attacks every game which seems poor for overall game health.
W'adrhun, Spires, and 100k changes seem fine and mostly neutral that I've looked at.
auticus wrote: 100k - longbowmen got volley 3. I know what my next 100k hobby kit is going to be doing.
UUUUGGGH! So many more ranged units for my Hunters to have to compete with. I'm already dreading the "Chapter Mage with Restricted Crossbowmen" now I have to worry about Longbowmen who even at short range outrange me by 1"?? Darn!
I dont keep Underspire logs anymore but here are the unit changes I saw:
HUNDRED KINGDOMS
Officer - add Militia and Militia Bowmen to Mainstay
Mounted Noble Lord - add brutal impact (2)
Priest - added Cleave 1, Holy Fire from 25 to 30 points
Mage - Water from 40 to 55 points, add Court Squires to Mainstay, add Crossmow mercs as restricted
Standard of Steel 65 drop to 50
INdomitable Plate 25 to 15
Mask of Eaklides 10 to 5
The Unwrought 10 to 5
House Colors 10 to 20
Wedge 20 to 30
Laurean Lance - characte re-roll failed to hit rolls when making impact hits and gains Brutal Impact +1
Longbowmen - Volley 2 to 3
Gilded Legion - Clash from 2 to 3
SPIRES
Lineage Highborn from 4 to 6 attacks
Pheromancer, Siphon Strength from 45 to 25, Accelerated Hibernation from 35 to 25, Pheromantic Drive from 35 to 25, Induced Vigor from 25 to 15, Pheromantic COmpulusion from 25 to 15
Assassin - from 80 to 90
Chameleonic Epidermis - 40 pts
Architects Touch from 30 to 25
Plaguelord from 40 to 30
Learned in the Occult - removed
Magus - removed
Cautious Casting - removed
Focused - removed
Stryx - clash from 1 to 2
Vanguard Clone Infiltrators from 180 to 195
Marksmen Clones from 180 to 165
Brute Drones - add Oblivious rule
Centaur Avatara - from 165 to 180
DWEGHOM
Tempered Steelshaper - supremacy Living Metal - heal each regiment from 4 to 6 wounds
Hold Raegh - supremacy changed. Hold Thanes go from changing their weight to medium to gain Hardened(1)
Flame Berserkers - go from Aura of Death to Aura of Death (1)
Hold Warriors - Herald of Stone from 50 to 30
Fireforged gain strong arm
Dragonslayers from 225 to 210, and add Fiend Hunter special rule
Hold Thanes - move from heavy to medium
Inferno Automata - move from Evasion 1 to Evasion 2, gain Aura of Death (2), gain Fluid Formation
NORDS
Blooded Call of the Hunt - cleaned up language
Jarl - reinforcement rolls modified by -1
Blooded - up from 70 to 90
Jarl - up from 60 to 70, Defense up from 2 to 3
Shaman up from 35 to 50 - doesn't pay points for spells anymore and knows them all
Jarngreiper from 25 to 20
The Hunt's Instinct Mastery from 15 to 10
Headhunter Mastery from 30 to 20
Curse of the Vargr - from 5 to 10
Stalkers - from 18 to 20" range
Huskarls - from 135 to 150,
Trolls - from 70 to 80 points per additional stand
Fenr Beastpack from 105 to 120
Ugr from 150 to 165
Mountain Jotnar from 16 to 14 wounds
WADRHUN
Learned in the occult - removed
Blooded from 130 to 115, Aberration from 35 to 20
Slingers from 160 to 145, M from 5 to 6, Bullet Carrier from 50 to 25
Most of the unit point changes were what I had suggested on my youtube as well - so needless to say I'm overly positive about this balance update and its good to see others drawing similar or same conclusions based on their own methods of determining point values.
Ordered all of the special edition this year... they shipped finally. Looking forward to getting to the noble lord and tournament champion for campaign in 2022.
auticus wrote: Ordered all of the special edition this year... they shipped finally. Looking forward to getting to the noble lord and tournament champion for campaign in 2022.
How many special editions have been released this Year and what others have been released in previous Years?
Placed another order for more figures.Nords,Dweghom and Spires coming along nicely.Still been making up the figures.Got three more Huscarl done Today so now have one stand done .
Just found out/realized that if I take a Scion of Conquest with Mantle of the Devoted in a huge block of Blooded, I can have near constant E2 on my flurrying infantry.
Activate Scion (place token), Crescendo (place token) into Blooded (chant Conquest tier 2 because Fanatic), enjoy +3" to Marches and +1E until next activation!
Got the Troll unit finished being built Today.Not the easiest to rank up on the bases.They would work really well for 15mm scale games as Giants.
Next Unit to complete will be the Huscarls.
Got a (free) copy of the 1.5 companion, enjoying reading through the fluff right now.
So we know that Old Dominion, Weaver Courts, and City States are the next 3 factions out of the gate, but I'm guessing "the Quiet" (which I'm guessing are the dark elves to the Spires high elves and the weavers wood elves - although I suspect the spires are actually the dark elves in this story) are going to be one of the factions after that, representing the Exile laborer and warrior castes that disappeared way back when.
Yep. Scibor shields. I'm finishing up the third stand tonight, should have finished pictures soon I need to get to work on my longbowmen for campaign and start working on my tournament champion and limited ed noble lord.
Did you get the third stand finished Auticus?
Got the third base of figures for the Raiders done Today including the standard.Shame you dont get more weapon options in the set.
Nice looking unit of Huscarls.I was wondering what the Heads from the Frostgrave Barbarians would look like on them.Need to find my box of them to see how they fit.
Archer looks good.Is that a standard head?
Which force are you using in the campaign then?
My memory of ASOIAF minis is that they're smaller, smaller than GW even. But that could be because the details are finer/less heroically scaled. Haven't held any of the models in my hands just remember seeing a painted army as a convention prize and thinking "wow! those are teeny!"
Got a ticket for an OP event on Tomorrow.
This will be my first go at the game.
It will be First Blood at 750 points.Been busy trying to get a force together for it.
Just wondering about the Trolls regenerate effect.Do they get four wounds back in total?
Rihgu wrote: My memory of ASOIAF minis is that they're smaller, smaller than GW even. But that could be because the details are finer/less heroically scaled. Haven't held any of the models in my hands just remember seeing a painted army as a convention prize and thinking "wow! those are teeny!"
Other way around, the ASOIF are larger than GW minis by a good bit, they stand up next to stormcast pretty well in size, some of them are ginormous too
manic _miner wrote: Thanks for that Auticus.
The wording on the rule is not very clear.Maybe having the wording read "Regenerate 4" would be better.
There is an entirely different First Blood system being playtested now (well its on hold for Old Dominion but they will be going back to it after Old Dominion wraps up) that has cleaner language.
And those ASOIAF models look like they will fit in great with Conquest
Good to hear about the rules wording being made clearer.
The Game of Thrones figures do look like they will fit in well.Wildlings for extra raiders .
Any tips on how to play First Blood?
Got a Nord force sorted.Bare bones at 748 points.
Blooded
Jarl
Huscarls
Trolls
Raiders
Fenr
The only real First Blood experience I have is when we playtested it. I didn't like the mechanics since it was basically the core game only skirmish.
I would say the first question is to ask are you playing competitively or are you playing casually?
Nords are one of those forces that are very bipolar in that they are either really powerful (blooded, trolls, etc) or are lacking.
The new balance stuff for them giving them fury helps out quite a bit but I'm not sure how that translated down to First Blood.
My ASOIAF models are bowmen and crossbows that I integrate with the PB models (I bought them originally before those existed as PB models). The wildling idea is pretty solid though.
I also use Arena Rex models for my retinues and characters
It is casual from what i know of the event as most are new players.So lots still learning the game
I have the ASOIF Stark bowmen and Lanister crossbowmen.
The Grey-Joy faction seems to have a lot that would work well in the Conquest game.The Nightswatch have some good figures too.
Going to have to dig-out my Norsgard figures to see how they scale upto the Conquest figures.
For those interested in battle reports - here is one I did in 2020 showing Nords vs 100 kingdoms. This was a photo play by play illustrating how the game works.
auticus wrote: For those interested in battle reports - here is one I did in 2020 showing Nords vs 100 kingdoms. This was a photo play by play illustrating how the game works.
I enjoyed this, and sent it to a friend who is playing his first game in Sacramento this month. Thanks man.
I had watched this video before.Would have been interesting to have seen what the out would have been if the Giants had came on when they should have.
I could have used the Jarls Surprise attack Yesterday.One of the other players had two Giants then only two characters and a small unit of Bowchosen.
Also forgot to add an extra attack dice for the Leaders in game and also for the re-rolls for wounding.Need to remember the Flurry rule that the raiders have.That too could have changed the last game for me.
Having your cards stacked right does help but then again you never know what your opponent will do with his.
I played against a Hundred Kingdoms force that had quite a few small units of four figures.Then lots of mages casting fire spells.
Got a pack of resin Stalker heads and a coin from the event and picked-up the Campaign book.
manic _miner wrote: Another good little video.
Squires have quite a good movement on them.
Close to the Stalkers for getting to the center objectives.
The Squires are a bit faster than Stalkers, even with the Stalkers having Vanguard. 21" with banner vs 19" with banner. And once they're there, squires are harder to shift!
I must say, I'm getting to a rough spot with list building. There's too many advantages to having multiple cards of the same unit, and too many units I'd like to run. And for theme/flavor I don't like doubling up on heroes, which makes it even harder. When looking at Mounted Squires, for example, I either take 1 of them and the obligatory Household Knights, and lack the advantages of running 2 cards of each, or I run 2 noble lords and confuse my theme (and add more mainstay burden to my army!)
The problem is even worse for my W'adrhun, who I feel have even GREATER advantages to taking multiple cards of the same unit due to warchanting and rigidity of their turn structure caused by that.
I am starting to see a lot of spam yes for that reason - you can mitigate / bypass the card system by having multiples of the same unit since you get to pick what unit goes.
Which is a shame but... it is what it is.
For me personally I stick to theme and narrative over mechanical list power. That means I will be playing at a disadvantage a lot but for me personally I'm not interested in reliving my powerlisting glory days of warhammer and sigmar lol. I got burnt out on those games because I tuned everything all the time and I really just enjoy running what I enjoy.
My list will likely include a unit of mounted squires with a unit of knights. I like my infantry and I like to see different units so my list right now really has no duplicates in them at all - but I do so knowing that if I run into a tuned power list that I'm going to have my lunch taken from me and I'm going to be shoved headfirst into a toilet and given the equivalent of a swirlee. (but I also don't play in tournaments any longer so it is my hope that that isn't a regular occurance for me like it was when I was trying to run sigmar campaigns)
I'd be skewered if I suggested this on the official discord, I think, but me and my friend have long been discussing the idea of a "Limited" keyword, which would be added in addition to Mainstay/Restricted for some units. This keyword would limit said regiment to 1 per warband.
So you could make Raptor Riders or Warbred Mainstay (Limited), Mountain/Ice Jotnars Restricted (Limited). And perhaps even some characters, who thematically exist as one-offs for a given organization Limited to mean they can only be taken once per army.
This would cut back on spam and make list building a bit more interesting overall.
But this seems like the opposite of what people want within the community-at-large.
One thing that I'm glad to see is that Para Bellum mostly seems to have unit balance down. It's not super egregious where I feel locked out based on unit choice (except for when I bring currently released W'adrhun Infantry to a match...). But the meta-game optimizations, like duplicating cards, maximizing restricted slots, army bonus rule choices, etc. can really, REALLY make the difference in lists.
You would be skewered because when I was vanguarding I offered that same idea up and was fragged by a big part of the competitive community lol.
Raptor riders in a lot of the playtesting were medium mainstays and I was very very very vocal in them needing to change to either lights so they can't contest, or restricted otherwise they were opening the door to 7th edition whfb all-cavalry army.
There was enough support from the community to make them light but there was quite a cost in some of the arguments (and one reason I don't miss that discord to be honest).
The competitive crowd will usually always lean toward spamming because thats the natural conclusion of min/max gaming ... find the best and take as many as you can.
Your idea has merit in say a campaign or something though - which is where I spend almost all of my time and have for a great many years now.
auticus wrote: You would be skewered because when I was vanguarding I offered that same idea up and was fragged by a big part of the competitive community lol.
Raptor riders in a lot of the playtesting were medium mainstays and I was very very very vocal in them needing to change to either lights so they can't contest, or restricted otherwise they were opening the door to 7th edition whfb all-cavalry army.
I wish the Movement stat had a larger point cost above 6 or so, because it seems to be hugely undervalued by whatever algorithms they're using. Most of the reason w'adrhun infantry feels bad to me is that cavalry control the engagements and between Household Knights and Centaur Avatara the only time I'm not dying from impact hits is against Dweghom. If cavalry units were like, 5pts more expensive per stand per movement above 6 I'd be like, "sure, all-cav armies, let's go!"
The competitive crowd will usually always lean toward spamming because thats the natural conclusion of min/max gaming ... find the best and take as many as you can.
Honestly why I want a rule that restricts how many you can take. If it was just me and my buddy playing, we're pretty good at limiting ourselves for theme/matching power, but a semi-local community is actually forming and because Conquest (or at least locally?) organizes itself in the form of tournaments, it's bringing the competitive spirit. I can't show up to a 3-4 round event with prizes and expect anything but good lists.
On an unrelated note, it sure is funny hearing people's opinions on what are/are not good. It's so wildly varied from person to person. And if any unit is bad for what somebody is suggesting to use it for, well, there's a specific combo you can put to buff them through the roof! (Ignore that you can employ that on a unit that's better to begin with...) but that's enough from me, I think.
Excited to get to play Conquest for the first time since before Xmas tonight. 1500 points, W'adrhun vs Nords I think it's going to be. Over TTS, so time to come up with a list with as little wheeling as possible...
I'm more in favor of my own system's rules which give anti-cavalry bonuses to pikes and spears.
It means if my opponent goes all cav they risk facing all spears so it incentivizes taking a more balanced force instead of spam skew.
More expensive cavalry only stops that when it becomes suboptimal to take (and then you never see cavalry which is going too far)
because Conquest (or at least locally?) organizes itself in the form of tournaments, it's bringing the competitive spirit.
PB's goal is a robust tournament scene so yes... as the months and years roll on and as our community's grow which encourages the tournament gw crowd to consider it... you will start to see some hard skew in the next 2-3 years even in for fun lists.
For fun will be like sigmar for fun events - just another word for tournament tuning lol. (which is why campaign organization and deviation from standard is so important to me lol)
On an unrelated note, it sure is funny hearing people's opinions on what are/are not good
Indeed - its all about their local meta. Which is fun... and if you're a game designer trying to playtest it can be hard to get through all that noise to find the true reoccuring pattern!
But it is fun to listen to.
I spent a ton of time on the TTS platform so yeah it can be a pain but I'm glad to hear you get to get some games in.
Not sure I understand what the problem is with taking multiple identical units, thats the way this game - and most others *should* be played. I always, regardless of the game, build my armies around redundancy with multiple identical units equally capable of fulfilling the desired role within my army, and *surprise* thats also how real world military forces are organized too. Frankly it just feels more realistic to have multiple instances of the same unit within my army, rather than each and every unit being a one-off/one-of-a kind unique single instance. The only time I would take a one-off if its a big centerpiece kind of model or unit (or character) in which case I usually build my army around that.
I was a 19k in the army - tanker. At Warsteed in 1996 in Korea (wargames involving the south korean army, the united states army, and we had some folks from New Zealand and the UK as well that year) we had about 40 different unit types in the wargame (I know that because I was a part of the S-3 regiment that had to set up the sand tables and put the models where they needed to go)
There were a dozen tank-types there alone.
Real war can and often does highlight various unit types fulfilling similiar if not same role - the dependency is on cash and supply.
If everyone could have the best tank for the job, everyone would just spam that. That's just not how the real military worked though - hell the ROK army was still running some Refitted Sherman Tanks straight out of 1944. The North Koreans (not a part of the wargame for obvious reaosns) were mainly fielding T-38s and T-55s (very old WW2 tanks) with a handful of soviet 1980s era T-72s. If they could... you damn well better believe they'd have been spamming the T-80s and better but they didn't have the economy for that.
In our batallion alone we were rocking M1 Abrams, the M1A1, and the M1A2s. Those involved different calibre main guns (105s and 125s), one had an auto loader and differing smaller arms.
In game terms that would produce differing results and therefore differing unit profiles and points - but all of our tanks were fulfilling the same role.
The benefit of spam in tabletop gaming is take the best, repeat it over and over. If your opponent pops it - no big deal. You have redundancy (as you mentioned).
The problem with spam in tabletop gaming is that it also leads to burn out and player attrition due to boredom and losing interest in facing the same thing over and over, which is counter to trying to community build.
In games like 40k that's not a big deal because you have tens of thousands of people wanting to join the ranks every day to replace the people who quit.
In smaller games it becomes more noticeable.
That all being said - is it bad? Does it make you bad by doing it? No. Its a playstyle and one I don't ever see going away short of rules forcing it out, which while I would love something like that personally (and I have BattleTech for things like that where you can run simulation style campaigns where you have a finite money supply so can't just spam the best over and over because you run out of money) - it is not a wise business venture because from a gameplay standpoint - the spam style is very popular from a gamist perspective due to its massive benefits. It does however contribute high to player burn out and you need to be able to churn new players to replace those getting bored and leaving.
But thats also why we have narrative campaigns. In those events we can enforce economies etc. Whereas tournament style gaming shoudl IMO be left to min max and spam however it needs to because both of those events cater to two very different mindsets and thats good, it gives something for everyone.
chaos0xomega wrote: Not sure I understand what the problem is with taking multiple identical units, thats the way this game - and most others *should* be played. I always, regardless of the game, build my armies around redundancy with multiple identical units equally capable of fulfilling the desired role within my army, and *surprise* thats also how real world military forces are organized too. Frankly it just feels more realistic to have multiple instances of the same unit within my army, rather than each and every unit being a one-off/one-of-a kind unique single instance. The only time I would take a one-off if its a big centerpiece kind of model or unit (or character) in which case I usually build my army around that.
My specific problem is that it's not SUPER fun when building a list to click Matriarch Queen, then Apex Master because taking an infantry unit is a terrible idea, then add 2 Apex Predators and.. oh the only mainstay I have that's not infantry is Warbred, so add 2 of those. Cool that's 1000 points. What's next? A predator on raptor, so now I have to add two raptor rider units... there's 1500. Well, what restricted do they have released? Apex Predator and Slingers? Okay, add 2 more Apex Predators to the list. There we go, 2000. If I give myself artificial constraints, I'm weakening myself and I'll get rolled by people not following those constraints. If I don't the list literally builds itself.
The second problem is if I want to take a Drum Beast... so I take a Warband which has the Matriarch Apex Queen, give her her two mainstay Warbred, and add a Drum Beast. Now I don't have any redundancy for my Apex Predator or my Drum Beast! So I take a second Matriarch Apex Queen, give her two mainstay Warbred, and add a Drum Beast. Phew, perfect, realistic army.
The third problem is my relatively tiny army consists of 2 of the Matriarch Queens in the entire world. Nice, hope I don't lose! Granted this problem is exacerbated by my suggestion of "Limited" units because it directly encourages more duplicate characters.
It's boring. Open up the playing field for other options. Give me constraints to work around. If I can't take 2 Warbred or Apex Predators in my Matriarch Queen's regiment I have to decide whether a second mainstay (and therefore restricted) is even worth it, or even if I'd rather take the "hit" and use Braves/Blooded over Warbred simply because I can more easily bring multiple cards of Braves/Blooded.
The benefit of spam in tabletop gaming is take the best, repeat it over and over. If your opponent pops it - no big deal. You have redundancy (as you mentioned).
It's not even about taking the best. If you're taking anything in Conquest and you're only bringing one of it, whether it's even a good unit in the grand scheme of things, you are harming the overall list. Like, tonight I'm going to be bringing W'adrhun Blooded, a unit which I think isn't great. My list only has room for 1 unit of them. My opponent, assuming he's savvy, has the intrinsic advantage of being able to guess when/how my activations are going to go because when I draw a Blooded card, I *have* to activate that unit. He can stack a deck in such a way to make it likely that when I draw that card I have to take a bad activation with it because I don't have a "backup" Blooded unit to stall their stall with.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Game went.... okay for me . Great for him!
Battle Report here. 1500 points Maelstrom mission. W'adrhun vs Nords. 2 Apex predators and 2 mountain jotnars!
my list:
Spoiler:
=== The Last Argument of Kings ===
The W'adrhŭn - 1500/1500
ScionBloodedEvade
Scion of Conquest [265]: Select as Warlord, Long Lineage, Tier 2, Tier 3, Tier 1, Crescendo, Mantle of the Devoted, Death's Gaze, Famine
- Blooded (8) [315]: Skirmisher, Standard Bearer, Leader
Characters: 2
Light Regiments: 2
Medium Regiments: 2
Heavy Regiments: 2
Spoiler:
First turn I had no lights, he had 2 units of Stalkers flank+vanguard up the field to claim the side objectives. Turn 2 I only get my flanking Blooded deathstar megaunit, he gets 2 units of trolls (1 flanked from Blooded Warlord, 1 lucky roll).
I make a bad decision, and Fanatic Tier 3 Conquest chant to march-march-charge his unit of stalkers and kill them with impact hits from Death's Gaze
His jotnars flank on, I conquest march my Apex Queen up the field to threaten his Stalkers and my Blooded unit gets flank charged by trolls.
They disappear
My Apex Queen makes Stalkers disappear
My entire army finally comes on all at once but it isn't enough. They form a battle line (should've, uh, started with that). The mountain jotnar flank charges my Apex Queen through the woods (Hindering!). The trolls did a reform+charge to its front just to make sure it dies.
I lose initiative next turn, so the mountain jotnar kills my Apex Queen so when I draw the Apex Predator card, I have to activate my center Apex before he moves anything into better positions. I fail my charge into his trolls with a 2 into a 1 (re-roll from unstoppable)
His mountain jotnar march+charges my warbred, killing 1 of them. His trolls march up but do not charge my warbred, to keep them off the objective. My warbred do 13 damage.
We decide the game is over because his trolls move up and are standing on both objectives, meaning regardless of anything else he hits 12 points and wins at the end of the turn.
(You can watch our game as a VOD including post-game talk on our twitch channel, https://twitch.tv/tableitgaming)
Good game! Took 1.5 hours total. I amended my list, realizing that I had 0 reinforcement mitigations and if the list has good dice days and bad dice days, it's not a good list.
New List
Spoiler:
=== The Last Argument of Kings ===
The W'adrhŭn - 1500/1500
ScionBloodedEvade
Scion of Conquest [265]: Select as Warlord, Long Lineage, Tier 2, Tier 3, Tier 1, Crescendo, Mantle of the Devoted, Death's Gaze, Famine
- Blooded (8) [315]: Skirmisher, Standard Bearer, Leader
Honestly, having built about 4k points of W'adrhun for a friend and local store, I would *only* every field Apex and Warbred units if I had them for myself. The rest of the infantry in the army is just a miserable slog to build and don't fit on the stands (especially the slingers and the hunters).
Raptor Riders might be okay, haven't built those, but of all the kits I've built for Conquest I think the Apex is my favorite, its just well designed, fits together well, looks great, etc. Its a true joy to assemble and I'd gladly field an army of them.
Raptor Riders are awesome models- and I love the look of the army led by a Predator on a...Predator with tons of Raptor Riders. The downside assembly wise is that those tails really make ranking up difficult.
caladancid wrote: Raptor Riders are awesome models- and I love the look of the army led by a Predator on a...Predator with tons of Raptor Riders. The downside assembly wise is that those tails really make ranking up difficult.
I've found that you have to put the raptors at a 45 degree angle on the base to get any form of ranking up. and god forbid if you get flanked, rear-charged, or even charge somebody yourself because there is spillover in every direction but 1!
I think i like to have a good mix of unit types in my forces.Just seems a better fit for the story element.
Only played 750 point games so far in First Blood.Using Nords.Had a Blooded,Jarl,Huscarls,Raiders,Fenr and Trolls.
I think i will add Stalkers and another Raider unit to the force to expand it in the future.
One thing that I hope gets some balance love is the Jarl's forces.
Playing with the blooded and the troll torpedos feels incredibly more powerful than the jarl and his viking forces... which is why I really only see the blooded troll torpedos in the wild which is a huge shame.
*caveat - narrative players that don't care about power will still do raider themed forces so it will depend in your group and what they want out of the game.
My friend (who mostly plays trolls/blooded because blooded has the most released unit diversity and trolls are super important for the objective-holding game) says that when Ulfhednar/Bearsarks release it opens up both Jarls and Shamans enough for him to branch out.
A force of nothing but Raiders and Huskarls, which are mainstay, is not an exciting force by any measure.
I think if Huscarls were jacked up in power you'd see them more. As they are now, they just don't compete with trolls.
My nord force is raiders, huscarls, bow chosen, steel chosen, and some giants. It is a lot of fun to run but in terms of power its about C+ at best, so it gets owned pretty hard against most of the lists I have had to face.
Going back to how funny it is too see different people's views on what's good and what's not, Huscarls were recently increased in points because they were apparently one of the best units in the game.
At the same time, Trolls didn't see any increase in points or decrease in power.
edit: to be clear, I agree that huscarls aren't great especially after the points hike. I had just barely convinced my friend to give them a try on the basis that D4 after Bastion could be very strong. Then the points changed happened and he said "nope, absolutely not"
Huscarls baseline are RIGHT ON that blue line I video. They are like dead up what they should cost.
But the problem is... the other things like trolls are way below that line and there is no competition there. None at all.
The difference in total output you can get is very telling when you add all your units up and sum their output scores.
Thats the same problem in Sigmar. Units costed correctly are still garbage if you have units way below cost, because the things way below cost are going to be what competitive crowd is going to hone in on and spam.
I think if they had done just two or three character types per force with the units to play them would have been a good idea.
It could then keep the game more balanced with the next release for each faction being a new character type and a couple of new units.
A unit type with the support rule might come in handy for the Nords.
Still need to play more games to get more of a feel for the force and the different rules.
With none of the Chosen released yet it makes it hard to take the characters that could take them like the Konungyr who needs them for his mainstay options.
Looking at the options for the Nords force builder it seems like the only two good options are the Blooded and Jarl for now.The other characters are waiting for units to be released to make them playable.This could be the reason for not seeing many different force builds for the Nords so far.
Bow-chosen have been out for a bit. Though that was resin, and I heard they got pulled so maybe they don't exist today until their plastic version is out.
They just aren't overly amazing. They are functional but again when you compare them to trolls... there is no real comparison.
Heck, Bow-chosen don't even compare to Stalkers, imho.
I think if they had done just two or three character types per force with the units to play them would have been a good idea.
This is basically how their releases have gone so far, unless you mean they shouldn't have even released stats for units outside of what they were planning on supporting.
I sort of agree with that.
The discussion around unreleased models is so full of drama lol. I sort of wish PB made a hardline statement that Vanguards were expected to abide by, since their official tournament stance seems pretty soft but no event I've been to has abided by it and instead taken a hard no-unreleased-units stance.
For anything I run I'm allowing for proxies. So long as the models are representative.
But I also haven't been a vanguard for a few months now so I don't know what their official rules are regarding that.
I know when it comes to vanguards and rules PB is mostly hands-off and lets the vanguard build their community how they see fit.
Caveat: I can get away with that since my public events are always going to be narrative and not competitive, so its a different mindset and different angle.
It is a shame that the Bow-Chosen were a limited release in resin.They are great looking miniatures.
I think i have two troop type boxes for all of the Nords released so far.With three of the Raiders.Only got one of each Jotnar released so far.Nords players seem to run two in games from what i have seen.
It is hard for new games coming-out with a small range to get things started.Maybe not showing the other unit/character types until they are released would have been a good way to go.
Still plenty of options with what i have so far to keep me busy for awhile.
auticus wrote: I think if Huscarls were jacked up in power you'd see them more. As they are now, they just don't compete with trolls.
My nord force is raiders, huscarls, bow chosen, steel chosen, and some giants. It is a lot of fun to run but in terms of power its about C+ at best, so it gets owned pretty hard against most of the lists I have had to face.
Friends have recently jumped into the full game of Conquest: LAoK and I am tempted to join them when I can up North. But this imbalance discussion is worrisome; do you
foresee the game getting the attention it needs from designers in the future, to ensure unit variety and less regretful purchases by players?
So far I have Nords and 100 Kingdoms assembled for First Blood, but if I advance into the full game I'm uncertain which of the two I'll expand.
I know the designers are constantly doing tuning and that they do seem to legit care about balance.
I think that their intentions are good. The playtesting process is what needs worked on. My prediction is that until there is a proper tournament meta breaking the game though that you won't see that really in effect because right now you'll get 12 different opinions on what balance should even mean and the playtesting process lacks organization (IMO - its one of the reasons I backed out of the program).
For example: I know a couple people that will say the nords are perfectly fine right now and in a great place with their jarl and huskarls etc... and that the troll / blooded torpedo bomb you see commonly is just people latching on to the easier way to play...
but those people also tend to be primarily about club play with their mates and just having a good time and aren't really trying to bust the game either.
auticus wrote: I know the designers are constantly doing tuning and that they do seem to legit care about balance.
I think that their intentions are good. The playtesting process is what needs worked on. My prediction is that until there is a proper tournament meta breaking the game though that you won't see that really in effect because right now you'll get 12 different opinions on what balance should even mean and the playtesting process lacks organization (IMO - its one of the reasons I backed out of the program).
For example: I know a couple people that will say the nords are perfectly fine right now and in a great place with their jarl and huskarls etc... and that the troll / blooded torpedo bomb you see commonly is just people latching on to the easier way to play...
but those people also tend to be primarily about club play with their mates and just having a good time and aren't really trying to bust the game either.
I've worked as a volunteer / rep for numerous companies as well. Tell me, now that you've stepped back from the program, do you still play C: LAoK?
The fact that the playtesters can, with a straight face, say that people finding certain things too good/very bad due to local metas... What are you playtesting? Your own playtester meta?
When people brag about having hundreds of playtest games with faction X or Y you'd think you'd have playtested against some of these "other meta" lists.
I'm sure the game is perfectly balanced if you play exactly the same way with the same lists as the playtesters
The above probably seems too harsh, and isn't really meant to be. I think the game is in a really good state right now even if some options don't feel nice to play.
There's a lot of Timmy's in the community, it seems. By that, I mean people who find intricate combos that make bad units really strong and hyperfocus on the idea. You especially see this in Spires and W'adrhun, where pheromancy X or warchant Y makes jank units EXCELLENT!!! But... why wouldn't I just take a solid unit and then buff THAT to extremes??
Because people are finding ways to make bad units work, it seems like attention isn't being given to those bad units. W'adrhun Braves and Hunters were untouched with the last big balancing change! But Blooded and Slingers got much needed adjustments. Then you think about the commanders-corner channel of the discord and how a lot of W'adrhun players favor taking big bricks of Braves and stacking warchant buffs and expensive items on them and it all clicks in your head...
auticus wrote: I know the designers are constantly doing tuning and that they do seem to legit care about balance.
I think that their intentions are good. The playtesting process is what needs worked on. My prediction is that until there is a proper tournament meta breaking the game though that you won't see that really in effect because right now you'll get 12 different opinions on what balance should even mean and the playtesting process lacks organization (IMO - its one of the reasons I backed out of the program).
For example: I know a couple people that will say the nords are perfectly fine right now and in a great place with their jarl and huskarls etc... and that the troll / blooded torpedo bomb you see commonly is just people latching on to the easier way to play...
but those people also tend to be primarily about club play with their mates and just having a good time and aren't really trying to bust the game either.
I've worked as a volunteer / rep for numerous companies as well. Tell me, now that you've stepped back from the program, do you still play C: LAoK?
I do yes - I'm new to where I live now and we started building a community in October and are beginning my stornlands campaign that I had up on the underspire this week as a monthly map campaign event. I still love the game. The balance right now is tolerable for me because the really competitive crowd hasn't hit yet and we can still do things narratively or more for fun and everyone seems to be cool with that, which was not my experience in the aos or 40k communities. I found that same truism in battletech as well though. Battletech is a lot of fun for me for the same reason - there is no hyper optimization crowd breaking the game, but it can be broken over there as well. The moment all of my games have to be tournament-tuning games for someone else and everything is built off of meta exploitation, I will walk away same as I did with GW games.
Because people are finding ways to make bad units work, it seems like attention isn't being given to those bad units.
My experience with the playtesters there is the same as it was when i was doing azyr and doing playtesting for AOS back in 2015. They do hyper focus on what they love and a lot of the bad things were indeed not reported or tested very often in lieu of focusing on what they thought was powerful to make sure it wasn't too powerful. Most with a few exceptions were also not trying to break the game, they were playing it for fun and gauging how fun that was. One of the more prominent examples I remember was them saying something about 100 kingdoms was fine (this was before they were tuned and most players didn't think they were fine, but the playtesters thought they were ok and didn't need much) and then when pressed for a battle report, they posted on youtube a TTS game and the 100 kingdoms player was playing with militia spam and was up against the playtest whadrun using most of their bad units. The conclusion drawn was that the 100 kingdoms, which were generally seen as a bad army, did ok against whadrun when the whadrun were fielding units generally seen as also being something optimizers would avoid, and that that proved 100 kingdoms were just fine and the bad whadrun units were by virtue of the 100 kingdoms being fine, also in an ok place needing some minor adjustments. This made my tester OCD tweak off the chart
The Age of Sigmar playtesting group in 2015/2016 was several shades worse to put that in comparison though.
The raptors were another area that I died on a hill over. I was against the idea of all raptor armies because I don't want to see the return to all cavalry hammer like 7th edition warhammer. There were people aggressively FOR all raptor armies, but in that regard I think a good compromise was won (raptors went from mediums to lights so they couldn't score objectives).
Now caveat - the playtesters very rarely posted their results to the other playtesters and the PBdev team did not post any findings either so a lot of us were groping around in the dark in terms of results, and that was supposed to be a good thing because they didn't want our results influencing each other. I personally do not like that and from a software QA standpoint, the thought of hiding results from each other is aberrant. Their theory was if something was really a problem then they'd see a pattern of people reporting it as such.
Most of the playtesters (at least the vocal ones) were also very very very against using math and probabilities and some aggressively against it. To me, you can't playtest a game based on statistics and probabilities without using statistics and probabilities.
Final caveat - my opinion is only my opinion. It is not a fact, and there are 1000 ways to playtest a product, not just my own. They have something going that they think works for them so hats off to them. I'm still playing the game - I just left all that stuff behind because the way they organize it is not something that I can really enjoy doing and I'm worn out from arguing with people anymore.
Nice display base.Looks like you have used water effects too.
Fence looks a bit wonky.Is that due to the resin moulding process?
Got a mounted Lord made-up Yesterday for my son to use.Just need to do a few more units for him and get a couple of other bits to get the force sorted.
I'm going to expand my Nord army so I can play with my Northern California crew a bit. At least so I can provide my own minis when we get together. They may not be powerful units, but I will play so relatively rarely in comparison to AoS that I don't much care. Been looking for an excuse to buy the Trolls anyway. By the time I really get into the game, if I enjoy it, perhaps they will be more balanced by then. I Just discovered the army builder thanks to 2+ Tough's instructional video on YouTube. Awesome resource.
From the Conquest Discord, three online events with open participation!
Do you have painted models? Do you have a camera? Can you take pictures? If you answered yes to these questions then you could win $100 in Conquest products.
The community is trying to expand the online collection of painted 3D conquest models, and we could use the rest of the communities help!
This event will run until the end of April, so if your models aren't painted yet, they could be!
If you would like a chance to win a Founder's Exclusive model from the comfort of your home then you need to look no further than the Online Conquest Tournament.
Beginning on February 26th, this will be a 4-7 week event. In the first phase you will battle it out in a round robin with other payers in nearby time zones. The top players from each group will then battle it out to determine who will conquer the rest!
If you are looking to learn to play Conquest, or explore a new army, then the Online Conquest League is the event for you! Over 3 months you will grow from 750 to 2000 points. As a casual event, all are welcome, and you can join in, or hop out at any time.
auticus wrote: I jumped off of their discord a while ago - which one is organizing those?
I think it's Conquest Eternal, but I got the postings from the official Discord. It may not be Conquest Eternal at all and just the user Nicreap setting it up and running it, since Conquest Eternal is only mentioned in one of the linked docs?
Shrapnelsmile wrote: I'm going to expand my Nord army so I can play with my Northern California crew a bit. At least so I can provide my own minis when we get together. They may not be powerful units, but I will play so relatively rarely in comparison to AoS that I don't much care. Been looking for an excuse to buy the Trolls anyway. By the time I really get into the game, if I enjoy it, perhaps they will be more balanced by then. I Just discovered the army builder thanks to 2+ Tough's instructional video on YouTube. Awesome resource.
What do you have for your Nords so far then Shrapnelsmile?
The Trolls are nice models.They look kind of weird then they just seem to grow on you.Need to get my set that is made-up painted then make the other box up.
Shrapnelsmile wrote: I'm going to expand my Nord army so I can play with my Northern California crew a bit. At least so I can provide my own minis when we get together. They may not be powerful units, but I will play so relatively rarely in comparison to AoS that I don't much care. Been looking for an excuse to buy the Trolls anyway. By the time I really get into the game, if I enjoy it, perhaps they will be more balanced by then. I Just discovered the army builder thanks to 2+ Tough's instructional video on YouTube. Awesome resource.
What do you have for your Nords so far then Shrapnelsmile?
The Trolls are nice models.They look kind of weird then they just seem to grow on you.Need to get my set that is made-up painted then make the other box up.
I have a box of Raiders
The Shaman
Jarl
and a start playing box -- UGR x 3, Blooded, Mountain Jotnar and stalkers. If the leaders match up to the troops in Conquest the way they do in First Blood, I think I have
a solid start --- at least with Blooded.
Yes, the trolls are .... odd. So unusual I've become quite smitten with them.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
manic _miner wrote: I think i like to have a good mix of unit types in my forces.Just seems a better fit for the story element.
Only played 750 point games so far in First Blood.Using Nords.Had a Blooded,Jarl,Huscarls,Raiders,Fenr and Trolls.
I think i will add Stalkers and another Raider unit to the force to expand it in the future.
Did you enjoy First Blood? That is what I originally bought my models for, but my local opponent has not been able to get his stuff assembled.
I think the only figures i do not have yet for the Nords are the Bow Chosen.
Got all of the characters released so far and the Founders display piece.Then two of each unit box but three of the Raiders.One of each Jotnar released.
Still a lot to make-up and get painted.
First Blood was good and a learning experience too.Lots of things i kept missing and need to learn more of the rules.
Raiders you need to remember the flurry rule which i did not.Trolls the regeneration rule.
Also that the Nords are not good at sitting on objectives if the ememy has lots of missile troops or magic user's.I think i will need to be more aggressive with them the next time i play.Keep pushing the enemy and hunting magic user's.
manic _miner wrote: I think the only figures i do not have yet for the Nords are the Bow Chosen.
Got all of the characters released so far and the Founders display piece.Then two of each unit box but three of the Raiders.One of each Jotnar released.
Still a lot to make-up and get painted.
First Blood was good and a learning experience too.Lots of things i kept missing and need to learn more of the rules.
Raiders you need to remember the flurry rule which i did not.Trolls the regeneration rule.
Also that the Nords are not good at sitting on objectives if the ememy has lots of missile troops or magic user's.I think i will need to be more aggressive with them the next time i play.Keep pushing the enemy and hunting magic user's.
Nords do seem aggressive orientated. It's good I found a box of trolls to purchase recently at a fair price. We're playing in March, looking forward to it. There are company reps in Sacto as
well it seems that are doing a good job building the community. I really want to try First Blood as well, but all in due time.
I think First Blood is a good starting point to get into the game.Gets you used to the different rules and special rules which each faction/unit have.
It also means you dont need to get loads of miniatures to play the game straight away.Which can be a bonus when starting a new system.
I would suggest trying to get a few games of First Blood in if you can.
Got a big box full of Spires stuff Yesterday which i got from Ebay.All the boxes are complete and no miniatures have been put together.Think i am sorted for Spires for now with what i already had.
Made one of the Avatar figures up Yesterday.Really cool miniatures.Eight more of them to make then the Leader for them.Got the Centaur Avatara already.
Campaign sounds awesome! Mind giving a quick go-over of the story? I'm guessing it's a "Nords invade from the North, Spires help them, 100k have to hold their own" sort of deal kinda like Riismark?
Campaign sounds awesome! Mind giving a quick go-over of the story? I'm guessing it's a "Nords invade from the North, Spires help them, 100k have to hold their own" sort of deal kinda like Riismark?
Attached is Stornlands.pdf (the map campaign which some of the items within helped go back and forth on the official map campaign book) - followed by Stornlands_2020 (the narrative campaign I wrote to support it with mostly story, extra scenarios) and the title art of both.
TLDR: The Stornlands are an abandoned northern kingdom whose former king betrayed his people by offering a deal to the spires for immortality in exchange for the first born child of everyone in the kingdom forever. The King eventually remarried and had a queen and another child which was their firstborn, and he failed to honor his end of the deal, so the Shaper (the spires biomancer) cursed the land by turning all of the people into golden fungus and the nobility were transformed into eternal life with a bad time (they can't eat, drink, sleep, feel anything which drove them mad over time and turned them into ghoulish predators)
A descendent of that king learns his birthright and heads north to reclaim it.
The Nords are there as raiders and the dweghom have been called because a shard of the horsemen of war is there, though that won't play a prominent role until next season.
Just been reading some of the story in the above files.
Sounds really good from what i have read so far.
Like the picture at the end with the Spire character and the Feral King which looks very much like Gollum .
manic _miner wrote: Just been reading some of the story in the above files.
Sounds really good from what i have read so far.
Like the picture at the end with the Spire character and the Feral King which looks very much like Gollum .
Funny thing about that. The artist of that piece is from greece and worked on some conquest pieces (i don't know if official or for something else). The fallen king IS a lot like gollum so I liked how he put that together haha.
manic _miner wrote: Just been reading some of the story in the above files.
Sounds really good from what i have read so far.
Like the picture at the end with the Spire character and the Feral King which looks very much like Gollum .
Funny thing about that. The artist of that piece is from greece and worked on some conquest pieces (i don't know if official or for something else). The fallen king IS a lot like gollum so I liked how he put that together haha.
Well you do have King Arthur in and the sword in the stone story so having Gollum in too is not a stretch.Just interesting in who finds the Ring.
Also like the base you have your character on with the stone hand on the front of the base.
I continue to use my warhammer terrain. AOS terrain i haven't noticed any issue since the new AOS models are basically almost same scale. I have a deep deep terrain collection from my warhammer days and I still use it since I no longer support Sigmar.
For the older stuff that is a few mm off... I don't care about it. No one else has cared in the games I've demo'd or played either so in my opinion just keep on keeping on.
Otherwise you can also get 3d printed models and scale them up if it tweaks you.
Playing my first game in Sacto next month. Pretty stoked. I'll probably bring some of my 2D terrain as well as battlefield in a box stuff. Thanks for the 411
Played a game against my usual Nords opponent last night. Absolutely ripped him apart. He didn't bring trolls, so I think his list was doomed from the start
The thing is, the list I went up against was a fearsome "netlist". My friend played it because somebody posted it went undefeated at an event and his mind was blown since it was the opposite of how he'd ever make a list, haha.
Still wild how differing metas impacts people's lists way more in Conquest than any other wargame I've played.
auticus wrote: I have found that when they have no trolls, I usually do very well. When they have trolls, I am crushed.
There is no in-between. Trolls are filthy.
Well I only have one box. I was hoping the Nords were a bit more balanced by now.
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auticus wrote: Awesome let us know how it went! I know some of the guys in california that are vanguards, they are pretty sharp.
Now that I live over in the southwest part of the country I'm hoping to make some trips out there.
And I definitely will thanks
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Rihgu wrote: Played a game against my usual Nords opponent last night. Absolutely ripped him apart. He didn't bring trolls, so I think his list was doomed from the start
what faction were you playing? Is he an experienced player?
Rihgu wrote: The thing is, the list I went up against was a fearsome "netlist". My friend played it because somebody posted it went undefeated at an event and his mind was blown since it was the opposite of how he'd ever make a list, haha.
Still wild how differing metas impacts people's lists way more in Conquest than any other wargame I've played.
Would need to see how its been played. There are still guys I know that lose with 40k netlists even though they dominate GTs because those players just aren't very good.
But you are correct, every one's "meta" does impact list building.
I got out of the discord and all of the social media for conquest so I'm blind to what is being netlisted these days. The dual troll torpedo + bloodeds were the nord netlist back when I was still part of all that.
Well I only have one box. I was hoping the Nords were a bit more balanced by now.
Play with all of the models its not AS bad, but Trolls are definitely still a unit that are a bit bent. They are still a bit underpriced and its hard to say no to a unit with good cleave AND that regenerates AND is a bit undercosted. They fulfil a lot of roles by themselves.
I think an army with a single unit of 4-6 stands of Trolls is a tough customer but fun to play against. Two units of those trolls and your opponent better be bringing the heat with them as well or its going to be a bad time. My lists are usually a bit of everything and are more casual and narrative for-fun than netlisted or trying to bust the game, so when I say that two troll units break my balls, its because I'm not trying to bring an optimized pain list.
auticus wrote: I have found that when they have no trolls, I usually do very well. When they have trolls, I am crushed.
There is no in-between. Trolls are filthy.
That doesn't sound like good balance, tbh.
Absolutely needing one type of unit to do well is the sort of gak that GW does.
Is there a counter to trolls, or are they just that OP?
auticus wrote: I have found that when they have no trolls, I usually do very well. When they have trolls, I am crushed.
There is no in-between. Trolls are filthy.
That doesn't sound like good balance, tbh.
Absolutely needing one type of unit to do well is the sort of gak that GW does.
Is there a counter to trolls, or are they just that OP?
So, the "problem" is, is local metas vary wildly. and the playtesters seem to have the experience that huscarls are as good or better than trolls but basically universally the experience seems to be very different. The devs are very receptive to balance changes and do a pretty good job at that but when the most "trustworthy" sources are saying Trolls Are Fine, Increase Huscarl Points you get some odd results.
There's a... small? movement. Might just be two people, at least in the Discord, of people pointing out that Trolls+Jotnar is The Nord List and if you don't skew those you don't do well. A user is collecting event data and is suggesting that every Nord list that places well involves Trolls+Jotnar. But then you have other users saying "well, I played against a huscarl list and it creamed me" or "My opponent proxied valkyries and volva and I couldn't even scratch them. Nords are fine!"
If there's one thing that I'm worried about with Conquest's balance it's that the playtesters play a very different game than it seems a lot of people do, and make balance suggestions based on that.
edit: that being said, the game is overall in a good place imho. 100k list building recently opened up a lot with the changes they made where it feels like you have actual options rather than just going with a Household Knight deathstar. Spires has always been varied and interesting. Dweghom... they're working on Dweghom, by god. It's really just Nords and Trolls+Jotnar skewing it to look like the faction is "fine" because they win making everything else wallow a bit.
The playtesters and their ideas of balance is one reason I stepped off that ship lol. I got tired of fighting that fight, especially when I had to do that same thing when I was playtesting AOS. I avoid the Discord and the Facebook now and haven't been on in about a year. I just lost the will to argue, especially when some of them get very nasty about it.
Context is everything and when balancing a game and someone says something is busted you have to look at what happened to make them say that. THe problem is ... there are no battle reports being submitted other than a couple guys that actually SHOW what happened in the game. (I know one of the uk groups does because David submits them via pdf and they use his spreadsheet that he uses to simulate the game which lets people play via diagrams and its great to show you everything that happened)
I agree with everything Rihgu said 100%. The game overall is fun. There are some issues that need resolved.
That will depend on the playtesters giving feedback. I wish I still had the endurance to argue every day and stay on that team but I don't. And I'm told you can't balance a game with math by a lot of them, so using math is useless as well.
Huscarls are like men at arms for 100k. Similar output. They are a fine unit. But no. If huscarls are creaming anyone I want to see that battle report, because I'm betting the farm that person was either playing poorly, or had really bad dice luck (or a bit of both).
I've logged according to my playsheet 128 games against nords and its a night and day comparison when trolls are there vs when they aren't there vs when they are spammed with blooded clones.
Most of my 100 kingdoms are complete. I probably want to do another unit of archers and get my tactical retinue done at some point. I just need a break to get to some battletech and... I'm not looking forward to 12 more bow strings haha.
yeah man they look fantastic. Exciting you have plans for that killer retinue as well. Lovely sculpts on those. Are they primarily produced for First Blood, or do they serve a model purpose in the full game as well?
Excited for the release of Old Dominion rules, I think the playtesters did a fairly good job this round.
Disappointed to see that mounted squires are going to mainstay and that they are more and more embracing all cavalry style armies.
In a game that often centers around capping objectives, making your fast units capable of being your only units for the most part is not a good thing IMO.
Additionally in a rank and file game, the absence of meaningful infantry other than your mandatory token couple of longbow units that often arises from letting people take all cav in a game where speed to cap objectives is crucial makes things less rank and file and more... AOS.
I remember from whadrun testing that there was a desire from a lot of the playtesters for all brute and all monster type armies (AOS style). I think thats only a matter of time :(
That's the type of list I started gravitating towards due to the relative power of it compared to taking any amount of infantry.
However, as of 1.5.1, my experiences with gimmicky Blooded infantry as the core of my army have been good. As I, too, prefer infantry in my rank and file games, this is good news.
W'adrhun I feel is less problematic for cavalry-based armies because you can't add scoring characters to your regiments (without taking Brood of Omgorah on a character who doesn't have cavalry mainstay), so you suffer on the scoring. Mounted Squires can take Noble Lords though, so...
At least Nords and Dweghom will always have a place for infantry...
Raptors used to be medium until I and a few people raised holy hell. That was probably the last fight I had in me because it was a heated one lol (and it seemed the side that wanted them scoring had more people I think I just cried the loudest =P)
Raptors got swapped to light as a concession to let people run all mounted but not be able to score everywhere.
There was a call to have an all jotnar / blooded brute list last year as well.
auticus wrote: Raptors used to be medium until I and a few people raised holy hell. That was probably the last fight I had in me because it was a heated one lol (and it seemed the side that wanted them scoring had more people I think I just cried the loudest =P)
Raptors got swapped to light as a concession to let people run all mounted but not be able to score everywhere.
There was a call to have an all jotnar / blooded brute list last year as well.
1) Thank you that raptors aren't Medium. Glad somebody was advocating for what's "right" over what's "cool".
2) You *can* bring an all jotnar/brute list right now... Blooded can take a mastery to become a Brute (curse of the Vargr) and you can take Ugr as mainstay so... woops.
Agreed that that all giant army is a bad idea. I like player choice but that isn't fluffy nor is the game system equipped to handle it. Jotnar are powerhouses right now anyways. I find it comical how much an ice Jotnar gets done, playing against him I always get the sense that he's carrying the team and dealing with the rest of the army is an afterthought. Huskarls just seem to pay a lot of points for nothing in particular.
Honestly whenever I look at Huskarls I can only think they really, REALLY value the combo of Clash 3 and Throwing Weapons on a Mainstay pick?
I can't find any really comparable units. Clash 3 seems to be an "elite" value and basically every unit with it has cleave and/or wildly incomparable stats/special rules to the point that comparison is pointless/impossible.
I will say, PB has done an excellent job of making units hard to compare. Special Rules on top of similar stat-lines really change what a unit is/does.
Huskarls can put out a lot of hits as when they are inspired they are Clash 4. They do a number on lighter units and anything without a ton of defense.
Throwing weapons gives them impact hits as well so they could pump out a lot of hits that your opponent had to save.
They are like veteran men at arms. Their problems are... they are infantry so slow and their zone of control is limited because of that. However I have used them to great effect and seen them used to great effect... its just that they are grossly overshadowed by other things so from an optimization standpoint its hard to want to include them when you have things that are so much better.
My group's current campaign is in its 2nd turn. The forces of King Alfred push the spires further north, securing a pair of victories against their nordic mercenary allies and the spires themselves in a Take & Hold scenario over the weekend. King Alfred has eyed some important ruined buildings to set up a forward base in, but to do that his army must take it from the spires...
Take and Hold A heavy building sits in the center of the table. Other terrain as players agree.
Objective - take and hold the building. Medium units garrisoning the unit at the end of the turn earn their side 1 point. Heavy units garrisoning the unit at the end of the turn earn their side 2 points.
Additional points: 1 point for slaying the warlord. Draw 2 random secondary objectives from the race specific card deck. Armies can score those two as well (redraw impossible objectives if applicable)
Turn limit: 10
Points to win: 10
Both games were pretty heated and close so far. The group has until the last saturday of march to continue contesting this tile.
This snippet here is one reason I still support this game. Its very refreshing to see the timeless "it works fine on top tier tables so its fine for everyone else" to get slapped down a notch. So very few people are actually "top tier players" and casual games being made to eat it unless they build a certain way is certainly not a fun experience (for me anyway).
Going live at noon Arizona time / 2:00 EST to discuss:
The helldrake and where he lands on the baseline algorithm, my opinion on top down design (designing games for the tournament crowd and then the casuals underneath can just get good) and some Old Dominion thoughts from playtesting.
This is another game I desperately want to play but can't get anyone to play with me... doesn't help I bought a bunch of nord minis and then immediately decided against playing that army, heh.
Rihgu wrote: RIP! What made you decide against Nords?
I kinda panic bought them wanting to get into an escalation league, and as soon as i got home i was like "man I don't even like the viking aesthetic." I really prefer 100k/Old Dominion.
Rihgu wrote: RIP! What made you decide against Nords?
I kinda panic bought them wanting to get into an escalation league, and as soon as i got home i was like "man I don't even like the viking aesthetic." I really prefer 100k/Old Dominion.
Same with me bulk buying the Dweghom. Loved the art style, but then the minis didn't look/feel right to me. I really like the look of Old Dominion and what we've seen of the City States.
I was at another town's LGS for an AoS tournament and saw the Hundred Kingdoms and Spires 2-player box. Love the look of Spires, so I bought the box and I'm currently looking for someone local to split.
For what's probably going to a small group, is there anything that a couple of new players doing Spires and Hundred Kingdoms ought to know, beyond the core rules? Specific things to avoid to ensure good and interesting games?
Working my way through the core rules. Struggling to find an answer to a rules question. If I have a Heavy Monster that makes a Volley action, and it has to draw it's line of sight over one of my Light Infantry to target an enemy Light Infantry, is that an Obscured Shot?
I just started painting up some of the resin Conquest characters. These are a joy to paint, the best resin ever. Even a bit better than Carnevale minis which I love.
Agreed. I recently built the Lineage Highborne and the High Clone Executor, and started painting the Executor. Great resin, didn't feel like I was at risk of snapping pieces if I put more pressure than a feather.
Can't say the same for the plastic Marksmen Clones. The arrows they come with are so so very thin, and Parabellum's sprue gates are just absolutely massive and unwieldy. It had been annoying to deal with before, but with the Marksmen's arrows, even trying to be as careful as I can, I haven't managed to not snap one when cleaning the sprue gate or filing it down.
My plastic horde grows, and yet, I haven't had a single game. Though I've roped a local friend and AoS player in to playing the game, since he too was sucked in by the models and the premise of a new gameplay style.
So finally got to try the new First Blood rules. A number of good improvements and a good core ruleset there but again suffers from strange pitfalls and errors. Stuff like the core scenarios having entirely broken VP thresholds (one of the four is easily winnable turn 1 with no dice rolling, provided one player has a slow army and the other doesn't) or units falling victim to their bloodlust and being forced to... walk up to enemies but avoid actual melee, or units with high resolve being super fast on retreat moves. I am again left absolutely baffled as to how these things get through a basic editing process let alone playtesting.
NinthMusketeer wrote: So finally got to try the new First Blood rules. A number of good improvements and a good core ruleset there but again suffers from strange pitfalls and errors. Stuff like the core scenarios having entirely broken VP thresholds (one of the four is easily winnable turn 1 with no dice rolling, provided one player has a slow army and the other doesn't) or units falling victim to their bloodlust and being forced to... walk up to enemies but avoid actual melee, or units with high resolve being super fast on retreat moves. I am again left absolutely baffled as to how these things get through a basic editing process let alone playtesting.
Good to know. I watched a few battle reports on YouTube and was not interested in First Blood at all.
It's like AOS light. I wanted a cool true skirmish game, like 10 -12 models per side. a reason to paint some of these awesome minis.
Finally got myself a game in for Conquest. It was rough and rocky with the pace of things and going through rules since I'd never played, only read the book a few times and watched some batreps, and my buddy was even less knowledgable than that. But, we managed to get through it.
It was fun, and interesting to play. Little 800pt game, Spires vs Wardruhn. For the first 2-3 rounds we barely even made contact with each other, just working on positioning and moving up the board, trying to get set up, etc.
Reinforcement rolls were not on my side, as my Marksmen clones didn't hit the table until round 4, but by that point, they got tied up by Raptor Riders. Realized later on that his Apex Predator was played wrong, and that it shouldn't have benefitted from Chants. Even with the chants being used when they shouldn't have, a Regiment of Avatara and the Lineage Highborne nearly wiped it.
So far, I like the movement and the tactical play aspects. And the lethality of the game feels at an appropriate level. Centaur Avatara charging in to some regular infantry nearly wiping them (really flubbed the Impact attacks...) felt right to me. I hit my opponent with Turn the Tides Supremacy, but it wasn't quite enough to, well, Turn the Tides enough.
Thoroughly enjoyed it, excited to get in more games of Conquest and get a better grasp of everything.
Thadin wrote: Finally got myself a game in for Conquest. It was rough and rocky with the pace of things and going through rules since I'd never played, only read the book a few times and watched some batreps, and my buddy was even less knowledgable than that. But, we managed to get through it.
It was fun, and interesting to play. Little 800pt game, Spires vs Wardruhn. For the first 2-3 rounds we barely even made contact with each other, just working on positioning and moving up the board, trying to get set up, etc.
Reinforcement rolls were not on my side, as my Marksmen clones didn't hit the table until round 4, but by that point, they got tied up by Raptor Riders. Realized later on that his Apex Predator was played wrong, and that it shouldn't have benefitted from Chants. Even with the chants being used when they shouldn't have, a Regiment of Avatara and the Lineage Highborne nearly wiped it.
So far, I like the movement and the tactical play aspects. And the lethality of the game feels at an appropriate level. Centaur Avatara charging in to some regular infantry nearly wiping them (really flubbed the Impact attacks...) felt right to me. I hit my opponent with Turn the Tides Supremacy, but it wasn't quite enough to, well, Turn the Tides enough.
Thoroughly enjoyed it, excited to get in more games of Conquest and get a better grasp of everything.
Do you feel the apparent randomness of being able to bring in reinforcements will ever be a bit disheartening or unenjoyable?
I would need to get more games under my belt to say for certain my feelings on it.
I've been iffy on the idea since I'd first heard of it, but also understanding the role it plays in the game and the theme. I don't feel like I lost my first game because of it, I chalk that up to a major misstep in the rules where the Apex Predator survived due to playing the Chants wrong... And who knows how else the dice may have settled.
Off the top of my head the order of Reinforcements was...
The reinforcements element is handled pretty artfully. A big piece is that at higher points levels there are more dice being rolled. One or two medium units I could roll badly and get screwed, but with four of them that doesn't really happen. I can also choose which ones I bring on, so situations where I have, say, two big units and two small I can get the majority of a category (points wise) onto the board with two successes.
The other big factor is the reinforcement line; coming in later gives a great opportunity to move the reinforcement line forward. I've had scenarios where I would prefer to fail in order to give myself a chance to push that line up while seeing where my opponent put their units down.
Finally, you only have to roll twice for a given category before it comes in automatically so there is some built in bad luck protection.
I would also say there is a 'hidden' element; do NOT use the scenarios in the core rules. They are mechanically broken by their thresholds and are not used for any of the playtesting* use the Organized Play scenarios (found on their website) instead.
*Why are they there then? No idea--for every smart idea PB seems to also push through something mind-numbingly stupid.
Thus far, we've been playing without a scenario. Basically, just fightin straight up, so we get a handle of the core rules and mechanics before adding on scenario play. I think we'll try to add Scenarios in for the third game.
Last weekend, I played my second game. 1000ish points. We worked out more of the core rules and things are running along more smoothly.
I had a stock unit of Vanguard Clones Burnout, Charge in, and turn the Apex Predator in to little dino-steaks. That was... surprising.
And again, the Reinforcement rolls were mostly fine still I think.
Marksmen clones managed to get on the board early. They dominated my left flank, nearly wiping two units of Braves(reinforced on different turns) and finishing them off in melee. I kept them mostly protected with a 6-stand unit of Force-grown Drones and a Biomancer.
Now with Chant Rules being played properly, we've sort of run in to what seems to be a well-known balance issue that'll be solved once we build up to 1.5k and up games, where Wardruhn are actually on the backfoot compared to some other armies, because they can't make as much use out of their Army mechanic.
Funnily enough I started having a more fun experience/winning more when I started building lists to completely ignore the chant mechanic.
That also enabled to me to start shuffling my command stack which shortens game length considerably (I used to take a long time strenuously deciding exact order of my cards but now I don't need to worry at all! hooray!)
Bah, just be like me, with terrible short-term memory. Carefully plan your stack, place it down, then immediatly forget the order when you go to draw. Makes every round a surprise!
I think the ability the Drum Beast gives in LAoK (don't have to trigger chants at 3 stacks) should be baseline. Right now as an army mechanic it requires too much planning to be viable with multiple cults, and even single-cult plans can get screwed by a unit dying.
Scenarios do make ranged bunkers a bit less viable, because you need to move forward to capture the objectives.
Went through the Bottleneck Scenario on Tuesday. Wardruhn on Spires, once again. Game felt good. I wasn't able to hold the middle of the board well enough. Expected too much damage output from 6-stand unit of Bound Clones and 3 Avatara.
I buffed the Bound Clones to high hell with Unstable Enhancement and Burnout... but, I think next time around I'm going to take them with the Assault Preceptor. Double their attacks over an extra +1 Clash/+2 movement, probably for the best? Too much quality Clash, not enough attack count.
I think we also played with too much terrain. It was very, very tight on my side of the board. Wardruhn being super fast let him have much more space to Reinforce on compared to me being more hampered by the terrain. We're both still used to AoS/40k.
One sort of question I'm toying around with myself... Buffs or more bodies? I don't have all my things built, so I had to pay for loads of upgrades. Loaded up the Biomancer in my army to buff and heal a lot, and he did well for me I think. Just, the time I wanted the buffs to perform, it wasn't enough due to having Ward Preceptor instead of Assault when I ran the 6 stands of Bound Clones in to the Apex predator. They hit 90% of their attacks, but it was only 16 hits or something.
I wasn't terribly impressed by the Incarnate Sentinels performance. Board space issues + Heavy meant I felt like they had come on too late and did too little. Not sure on them, but it was a proxy. Not like I dropped 100USD on them yet.
I generally play with 5 pieces of terrain. A forest, a lake, and a hill along the center line with gaps for 2 stands and 3 stands between them, and then an impassible in opposite corners 2-3 stands away from the board edges.
Sometimes I put a forest on the hill because a hill itself doesn't do much.
I've calibrated this setup across most of my games of Conquest and find it to be the most interesting for army building and matchups. But I also play almost exclusively the Maelstrom mission so your mileage may vary with different objective layouts.
For buffs vs more bodies - can't say for Spires because they're the one faction I don't look into much. For my W'adrhun I generally like to take bigger units and take unit upgrades that give Flank or Movement. Not a fan of things that just give Bastion or Fury or the like with them.
Spires tend to have lots of bodies. Big thing for them right now is a biomancer kitted out for healing consistently outperforms other support characters.
Tha is for that tidbit Rihgu, useful to hear other's experiences given the utter lack of official guidance for terrain.
Buying in to a list of things I find cool for Dweghom...
CC appreciated, mostly from a standpoint of not trying to make things too powerful.
1945pts. Some room for changes shifts and upgrades. I'm not too sure on including the Steelshaper. Maybe just combine the two Fireforged units in to one? Load up on upgrades elsewhere? No clue!
Hold Raegh - 120pts
- Draegbhrud relic
Hold Ballistae - 135pts 3 stands
Hold Warriors - 120pts 3 stands
Hold Thanes - 210pts 3 Stands
- Herald of Fire
Dragonslayers - 240pts 3 stands
4-5 stands of fireforged in one unit should do most jobs quite nicely. Lay them all out in one rank. Would also let you get a 4th stand of Dragonslayers and some upgrades across the other units (standards come to mind, and a herald of stone can make ballistae or hold warriors truly nasty to dislodge)
With that advice, and the advice from other locations, I've got this now. Not sure who to have the Raegh stomping around with.
Hold Raegh - 120pts
- Draegbhrud relic
Hold Ballistae - 205ts 4 stands
-Herald of Stone
Hold Warriors - 160pts 4 stands
Hold Thanes - 210pts 3 Stands
- Herald of Fire
Dragonslayers - 310pts 4 stands
Probably with the Thanes, although from what I remember there's also definite merit to putting him with one of the Warriors units, too. I'd no put him into the Dragonslayers as they can certainly hold their own offensively. You'll basically want to put him in a unit that's got good defense but not so good offense, imho.
1 - no ending the game early by scoring max points*. The one I'm least positive on, but I think I'm still positive on it.
2 - no whacky "only lights score" or "you need 2 heavies to score" missions
3 - all scenarios allowing the destruction of enemy objectives is... interesting?
What do y'all think?
edit:
*earlier I hadn't seen that there is a universal rule that you lose if you're tabled and mentioned tabling.
Also read through more thoroughly, and I think it's a little weird that Objective Markers aren't the size of the Objective Markers they've sold/included in the starter, and are also height 2.
On one hand, gives cool opportunity to convert baggage trains to represent these markers. On the other hand, having to point at that weird Spires fetus thing in the middle of a stand and saying "yea, that's Height 2..." is a little odd
What would be a good point level to start learning the game? I have the 2p starter box and 1x Marksman clones and 1x Men at arms boxes. Is the 2p starter a good way to learn the game? Or I should build to around 1000~ or more?
Game plays a bit awkwardly under 1000, honestly. Even up to ~1500 it doesn't quite give the full picture.
I'd recommend building to 1000 for your learning games. Anything less than that I would suggest First Blood which is a radically different game, anyways.
Thank you. And around what point the game gives a full experience? 2000 points is what I should aim to build?
Another question regarding terrain - how much terrain heavy is this game? Do I need lots, or just a few pieces? And about the scale - I have terrain from other games (some Azyrite ruins from AoS) - can I use it in Conquest, or the scale is too off? And where do you guys purchase terrain for Conquest? (if regular terrain doesn't work?)?
2000 points is the usual game size, although people do say it was (at least originally, been a lot of updates since then) for 2400/2500 points.
The latest mission pack has terrain guidelines. The most relevant bit here I think is that there should be 6-8 pieces of terrain, none larger than 9x6. 2 should Obscure LoS (not totally block, just make missile weapons less powerful), 2 should Obstruct (block LoS entirely), and no more than 2 should be garrisonable.
The AoS terrain will work perfectly fine, imho, but I'm not much a stickler for keeping minis and terrain in scale.
I learned this game existed on Friday, I ordered 1600 points of City States on Monday.
Impulse control! I haz it!!!
The only thing I can think of to criticize is that Broken is sitting right there as a mechanism to make units less effective, but you don't get to Broken by failing Resolve tests. That seems like an error.
Well, you sort of do. You get to Broken by taking damage in general, and failing resolve tests leads to damage. So you can lose 1 of 4 stands to a Clash, then another stand to Resolve tests, and become Broken for losing 2 of 4 stands that way.
Thadin wrote: Finally got myself a game in for Conquest. It was rough and rocky with the pace of things and going through rules since I'd never played, only read the book a few times and watched some batreps, and my buddy was even less knowledgable than that. But, we managed to get through it.
It was fun, and interesting to play. Little 800pt game, Spires vs Wardruhn.
Reinforcement rolls were not on my side, as my Marksmen clones didn't hit the table until round 4, but by that point, they got tied up by Raptor Riders. Realized later on that his Apex Predator was played wrong, and that it shouldn't have benefitted from Chants. Even with the chants being used when they shouldn't have, a Regiment of Avatara and the Lineage Highborne nearly wiped it.
Thoroughly enjoyed it, excited to get in more games of Conquest and get a better grasp of everything.
question -- do you find the reinforcement mechanic (roll) a bit too random for the game? I know some people are turned off by it. What are your thoughts?
I'm happy to say that Conquest is taking off locally all the sudden, we have about 6-9 players committing this month. Excited to try it. My son is going Old Dominion, I'm opting for City States.
I don't know what to buy beyond the one player army box, however. City states has limited unit selection and I'm afraid I will regret getting too much of one troop type in six months.
Shrapnelsmile wrote: I'm happy to say that Conquest is taking off locally all the sudden, we have about 6-9 players committing this month. Excited to try it. My son is going Old Dominion, I'm opting for City States.
I don't know what to buy beyond the one player army box, however. City states has limited unit selection and I'm afraid I will regret getting too much of one troop type in six months.
The starter box should have come with a little 'What's Next?' pamphlet outlining several directions in which you can build your army. If not, it's probably free online.
BuFFo wrote: This is my current, favorite wargame.
If anyone in the treasure coast area in Florida wants to game, hit me up!
Talk about frustrating. I am currently located in the Orlando area. According to the store finder the 2 closest stores to me are an hour away in opposite directions.
Just as a general question for everyone how is the faction diversity in your stores? I have known about the game for awhile now but have recently decided to actually purchase the models. The recent Bearsarks as well as the ice Jotnar have finally pushed me to buy nords.
Locally we have all the factions covered (in theory anyway) but turn-out tends to be a little light. What I think is interesting is how much more likely it is for Conquest on-line communities to be on Discord than an internet based forum. I guess technology marches on.
BuFFo wrote: This is my current, favorite wargame.
If anyone in the treasure coast area in Florida wants to game, hit me up!
Talk about frustrating. I am currently located in the Orlando area. According to the store finder the 2 closest stores to me are an hour away in opposite directions.
Just as a general question for everyone how is the faction diversity in your stores? I have known about the game for awhile now but have recently decided to actually purchase the models. The recent Bearsarks as well as the ice Jotnar have finally pushed me to buy nords.
I also play at The Collective in Altamonte Springs. Tuesday nights. DM your discord and I can introduce you to local groups!
BuFFo wrote: This is my current, favorite wargame.
If anyone in the treasure coast area in Florida wants to game, hit me up!
Talk about frustrating. I am currently located in the Orlando area. According to the store finder the 2 closest stores to me are an hour away in opposite directions.
Just as a general question for everyone how is the faction diversity in your stores? I have known about the game for awhile now but have recently decided to actually purchase the models. The recent Bearsarks as well as the ice Jotnar have finally pushed me to buy nords.
Man I know, a webstore over the holiday weekend had the artisan level Ice Jotnar model on sale for $100 free shipping. it was REALLY hard not to buy that.
Just as a general question for everyone how is the faction diversity in your stores? I have known about the game for awhile now but have recently decided to actually purchase the models. The recent Bearsarks as well as the ice Jotnar have finally pushed me to buy nords.
We have at least 1 of every faction except City States (store has not been able to get any City States models yet, somehow? Supposedly a supplier issue. It has also stopped be from getting models released at the beginning of the year... very frustrating). 2 Dweghom, 2 Old Dominion, 2 Hundred Kingdoms, 2 Nords, 1 Spires, 1 W'adrhun.
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![[Disk]](/dakkaforum/templates/default/images/icon_disk.gif){kind=icon}
from me, I think.
