OK, so until a few years back GW made some decent multipart character model kits. The Empire General and Wizards for example are spectacular kits with tons of uses.

On the 40k side we didn't get too many good ones, the SM commander was a big disappointment (one lighting claw? seriously?) and the Chaos Termi lord was meh at best. Did anyone else in 40k ever get a multipart hero kit?

But even so, they were useful products for conversions.

But now the move is to one-post plastics replacing several metal/finecast figures. The new plastic commissar comes to mind, replacing a half dozen monopose figures with different weapons and poses. But he has one pose and one set of weapon options. Sure he's easier to convert but...

Why?

Why?

Why?

Why is GW making models that combine the worse of both worlds, monopose with no options and much more expensive to produce?

My only theory is the premium price they command, most plastic kits are 2-4 sprues for $30-$40, but now GW is selling 1/4 of a sprue for $20. But since character models sell fewer units, especially if they all have the same pose that can't be profitable.

Maybe it's about the sculpting? Monopose models allow for more dramatic poses vs the limited options in a multipart kit?

Seriously, any thoughts?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Monopose models allow for more dramatic poses vs the limited options in a multipart kit?

I suspect that's the main reason. Sculpting for a specific pose lets them work with more dramatic, characterful poses more easily.

Not that it couldn't be done with multi-posable kits, but it's certainly easier this way.

But again, the problem is most players won't buy multiple ones.

The new plastic Commissar is decent enough, but I'd only buy one. A plastic Commissar kit with multiple weapon and head options, I'd buy 3 or 4. GW would have to include more/larger sprues but would sell more.

Why would GW choose art over commerce?

Or do they really think we'll buy several of the same monopose plastic model?

The one that burns my bacon is the Painboss. I realize that the pose that he is in would not be attainable with a head and neck that is compatible with the Ork boy/nob bits, but, unlike the Flash Gits, they made no effort to fix that. Even the new Big Mek has a wrench arm that is compatible with other ork sprues (as well as his head). It's a real disappointment given the general kitbash friendliness of the orks.

I have two major suspects. GW's disengagement with their customer base, and their seemingly maniacal reliance on accounting.

On their mania for accounting, I really feel, from speaking to people formerly in the company, that GW's decisions to, among others, split Chaos into three books for fantasy, and into two books for 40k, and to drop Lost and the Damned, and Tau Auxiliaries, and drop old-style lootas (where they could have SM or IG weapons), was because bean-counters wanted to make sure that they could account for 'which army' people were buying. With multipart characters, it is impossible to say whether someone is buying a model because they want that model, or because they want "those bitz". I know that sounds ridiculous, but hey, they used to be able to sell IG troops to Tau players, and Devastator kits to Ork players, so who's ridiculous now?

With allies and summonable daemons I'm hoping that the pendulum is swinging the other way, but who knows?

On top of that, GW doesn't hold Games Days or tournaments any more. They don't attend tournaments. They don't have a forum, nor a Facebook page. Aside from my own (very low) opinion of that, it also means that GW gets really limited feedback on what actual fans are actually doing. They don't SEE people converting models and kitbashing them, and they don't provide many avenues for their fans to share that in such a way that GW can see it (you can post here, but their Twitter feed is kind of hidden even on their OWN site).

I think that the combination of the two has created a filter bubble where GW doesn't see any benefits of multipart characters, and doesn't see any detriment to not offering them. It's really sad, but the recent trend with the Ogryn and the Mega-nobs is heartening (where a non-character kit contains options for making characters). I think this might be a good "back door' way for GW to keep making multipart heroes.

With the infantry kits they release now, why bother with the fancy character builds like you describe? What modelling opportunities are you expecting for any army that can't be found in kits like the Ork Nobz, SW Grey Hunters, DE Wyches and Warriors, or AM Militarum Tempestus? There's nothing they would put in the kits you want they don't already include in other kits.

PS the new commissar comes with bolt and plasma pistols.

A single monopose plastic mould is cheaper than a larger mould with multiple poses or separate parts.

However perhaps this is only a first wave and more poses will be done in the future.

GW may also be sticking it to bitz sellers. HQ options usually have the best looking stuff. By making it mono pose you cant cut and resell.

When the alternative is probably making a monopose finecast model I'm not going to complain. At least a monopose plastic model is probably going to be cast correctly and won't bend/break as soon as I look at it too hard.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
A single monopose plastic mould is cheaper than a larger mould with multiple poses or separate parts.

I see this as very much the reason, and I don't disagree with it in theory.

They can get 4 monopose plastic characters onto a single mold. If they break this up between different armies, they have 1 mold reaching potentially 4 different customer bases, which makes the return on the mold a lot easier to work off. If they wind up with a character that doesn't sell, they have 3 others selling. Though this does mean they will have piles of a character that doesn't sell and they can't not cast.

Where I disagree with it is in pricing, but that's a whole other discussion.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
But again, the problem is most players won't buy multiple ones.

The new plastic Commissar is decent enough, but I'd only buy one. A plastic Commissar kit with multiple weapon and head options, I'd buy 3 or 4. GW would have to include more/larger sprues but would sell more.

Why would GW choose art over commerce?

Or do they really think we'll buy several of the same monopose plastic model?

I doubt they're looking at it that way, but rather just that these were designed specifically as a replacement for an equivalent metal/'Fine'cast model. Character models have never really been aimed at getting people to buy multiples... they make up for it with the insane pricing.

Unless it's warhammer fantasy, where multiples are normal.

Vampire Counts can easily run 4-5 Cairn Wraiths or Banshees, and even 2-3 Necromancers.

This is where monopose hurts though, since it gets pretty boring.

On top of that, GW doesn't hold Games Days or tournaments any more. They don't attend tournaments. They don't have a forum, nor a Facebook page. Aside from my own (very low) opinion of that, it also means that GW gets really limited feedback on what actual fans are actually doing. They don't SEE people converting models and kitbashing them, and they don't provide many avenues for their fans to share that in such a way that GW can see it (you can post here, but their Twitter feed is kind of hidden even on their OWN site).

Has anyone actually ever seen GW do a customer survey or ask for feedback? I've never known them once do a survey of any kind, so how do they know anything about their customer base? I think they use assumptions and guesswork , and have the arrogance that people will simply buy what they make because it's Warhammer.

GW has always had monopose figures, mainly done in metal. Almost all Warhammer Fantasy characters are monopose and always have been.

This new "kit" format seems to be an outgrowth of the Space Hulk/Dark Vengeance type of model making. People buy lots of both just for the models and GW hears that from their store owners. Competition like Infinity, Wyrd, and PP sell tons of monopose figures.

Given that GW honestly believes they're selling models to collectors who just love to paint, it's pretty understandable that they would go this route. I expect that multipose models will only be found in kits that make units and not in any kit that makes a character or other special figure.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

On top of that, GW doesn't hold Games Days or tournaments any more. They don't attend tournaments. They don't have a forum, nor a Facebook page. Aside from my own (very low) opinion of that, it also means that GW gets really limited feedback on what actual fans are actually doing. They don't SEE people converting models and kitbashing them, and they don't provide many avenues for their fans to share that in such a way that GW can see it (you can post here, but their Twitter feed is kind of hidden even on their OWN site).

Has anyone actually ever seen GW do a customer survey or ask for feedback? I've never known them once do a survey of any kind, so how do they know anything about their customer base? I think they use assumptions and guesswork , and have the arrogance that people will simply buy what they make because it's Warhammer.

They used to. It is another of the things they gave up during the past 10 years, presumably to save money.

The thing is you can do customer surveys and stuff much easier and cheaper now with the internet than in the old days when you had to do everything on paper.

GW don't do any e-marketing at all, as far as I can see, despite trying to build a huge database of registered users through their web store site. Perhaps they aim to start doing it at some future time.


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 Breotan wrote:
GW has always had monopose figures, mainly done in metal. Almost all Warhammer Fantasy characters are monopose and always have been.

This new "kit" format seems to be an outgrowth of the Space Hulk/Dark Vengeance type of model making. People buy lots of both just for the models and GW hears that from their store owners. Competition like Infinity, Wyrd, and PP sell tons of monopose figures.

Given that GW honestly believes they're selling models to collectors who just love to paint, it's pretty understandable that they would go this route. I expect that multipose models will only be found in kits that make units and not in any kit that makes a character or other special figure.

That was then and this is now. In the early days when most models except the original plastic Beakies were metal monopose, they at least did a variety of different monopose SMs and so on, so you could get variety into a unit.

In historicals people always used to be fairly happy with ranks of identical monopose figures, particularly for regular troops, but most manufacturers offered some kind of variation to stop units being totally boring. As time went on and technology improved, companies began to offer figure codes which had several variations on the base pose and equipment. This was even achieved in 15mm, which is quite a feat.

Nowadays, of course, there are increasing numbers of plastic historicals on the market, so GW really seem to be working backwards from what looked like a leading position.

What makes it more strange is that GW buyers are very enthusiastic about plastic multi-pose figures and deride stupid old metal and mono-pose and tend to see multi-pose as a necessity for a modern game.

When you look at the small numbers of figures needed for 40K, I agree that they look nicer if they are all posed differently.

I've no problems with them as monopose plastics but, like Loki, I have problems on their price. I'd take a good-looking pose over customization any time. But if you can combine both somehow.... that'd be best.

Reason is simple easier to make molds for and cheaper to produce means more profit for the treasure chest!

Because sculpting is hard guys!!!


I'd love multi-part multi-option kits for character models. Imagine a full-blown Warboss kit? Or plastic Autarch kit? Archon? They'd be great.

Instead we get a Nurgle Herald that costs almost as much as 10 Plaguebearers. WTF???

Howard A Treesong wrote:Has anyone actually ever seen GW do a customer survey or ask for feedback?.

in the late 90s, they had a survey in White Dwarf about their games. To encourage people to full out out and return it, one random survey respondent won a tour of the factory and one of every single boxed set they had in production at that time.

I think there may have been a similar survey during 3rd edition, but I think that one has a less impressive prize...

Knowing GW it's likely to give bits sellers the finger. Make it impossible to convert or salvage for the bits. Something like the new SM Captain though is ridiculous. $30 for a mono-pose dude with an odd loadout, and sculpted in such a way that you can't even do a weapon swap. I hate assembling multi-part kits sometimes but at least you get some variety.

 Breotan wrote:
GW has always had monopose figures, mainly done in metal. Almost all Warhammer Fantasy characters are monopose and always have been.

The difference however is that metal/resin molds are relatively cheap to make but plastic costs $1000s of dollars per mold.

So the economics for years was that you did plastics for what you would sell a lot of, metal/resin for things you'd sell a few of.

Which is why I just can't wrap my head around making plastic commissars/SM commanders/chaos champs that you'll sell one per player. And if a player doesn't like the look of that particular model you'll sell zero. I don't like the current plastic commissar so no sale, but if it was a kit that let me make my own...

I guess in the end it's frustrating to me because I got into mini gaming due to GW's multipart plastics, the old RT beakies. Then I got back into it when the Catachans and Zombies came out (my second army was an IG zombie force).

I don't want to correctly assemble Lord Hugesword Asskicker and paint him in the right colors.

I want to create my own heroes and characters and cannon fodder. So GW's current line of good-looking but hard to convert plastics is a total turn off.

GWs cost in mold making is relatively little as it's all done in-house. So the cost will be limited to labour and I imagine any small character kit will be in multiples per mold and using spare capacity in existing plastic manufacture.

Generally I think that these kits are really very good. IG already have lots of character options in the various HQ boxsets. Indeed these combined with the Commisar example give a great swath of options as the character kits are immensely convertable by virtue of being plastic.

Over time hopefully the character ranges will be expanded by both more monopose and either individual multipose kits or options in unit boxes.

Obviously historically there was a huge range of monopose metals it will take time to reach those levels of choice.

The idea of multi-pose plastic would be to replace multiple mono-pose metal figures with a single flexible kit.

Apart from the utility to the end user, GW would save by not having to carry multiple SKUs. For example, they could do a Space Marine Captain with enough optional heads, shoulder pads and accoutrements to customise the same kit to any of the variant chapters.

Or at least that would be my business reckoning, perhaps not GW's.

The last GW I bought was the Sternguard box, which gives youi enough bits to assemble every marine in possibly infinite number of ways. So I'm not getting your complaint that GW is mainly monopose these days.

 Peregrine wrote:
When the alternative is probably making a monopose finecast model I'm not going to complain. At least a monopose plastic model is probably going to be cast correctly and won't bend/break as soon as I look at it too hard.

Maybe a monopose plastic will be those things, but it will certainly cost every bit as much as a 1/16 scale [compared 1/56] miniatures from a traditional model, that likely comes with some option as well. GW needs to understand Plastic miniatures are worth a lot less than resin and metal

On a similar note, I was enthused for the Wild West Exodus plastics but I hear they too are monopose with each set of arms only fillng one body.

Sigh...


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 sing your life wrote:
The last GW I bought was the Sternguard box, which gives youi enough bits to assemble every marine in possibly infinite number of ways. So I'm not getting your complaint that GW is mainly monopose these days.

I've been mostly getting metal the last few years (yeah I know, I know) but I hear the new Ogryns can only be put together one way. The right way. The GW way.

Yeah files and knives and bitz and green stuff can turn anything into anything, but GW does not seem to want to make it easy.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
On a similar note, I was enthused for the Wild West Exodus plastics but I hear they too are monopose with each set of arms only fillng one body.

I'm thinking WWX is a skirmish game, so you're only use only going to use one set of plastics, consequently you're not really going to see any repeats of a miniature.

Not a popular opinion but I prefer the monopose HQ figures as it gives the collector a reference of date and value of the model. I know this has little value to gamers but GW is not all about gaming.

Case in point the limited release SM when the webstore is redone. The model holds more value in a single pose rather than made with miltiple flexible poses.

Really it seems like plastic for bulk units, resin/metal for characters would have been the way to go, with all actual units being done in plastic (as opposed to the old days when some of them were all metal). But the problem with monopose is that as was said if you don't like the kit, then you won't buy any. It should have been a character kit with different heads, weapon loadouts and other bits. So like the SM Captain should have had different weapons, heads, sculpted shoulderpads for different Chapters; the Chaos Champion could have the same with different looks for each god.

My Herald of Nurgle is a monopose plastic, and after assembling it I can't help but feel like monopose allows them to hide the seams between the different pieces even better than they used to. I barely had to touch it.

I wouldn't be surprised if GW makes monopose miniatures so that it makes it that much more difficult for third party bits suppliers to have their pieces added to the original GW model.

 Quarterdime wrote:
My Herald of Nurgle is a monopose plastic, and after assembling it I can't help but feel like monopose allows them to hide the seams between the different pieces even better than they used to. I barely had to touch it.

I'm thinking this is one of reason they're doing this.

 sing your life wrote:

 Quarterdime wrote:
My Herald of Nurgle is a monopose plastic, and after assembling it I can't help but feel like monopose allows them to hide the seams between the different pieces even better than they used to. I barely had to touch it.

I'm thinking this is one of reason they're doing this.

As somebody who hates cleaning figures because of the mold lines and seams, I could approve of this if it wasn't that the preconfigured options tend to suck.

It probably does.

Whether the reduction in modelling effort justifies the reduction in modelling potential is of course a personal viewpoint.

Some might say that individual special character models are relatively uncommon compared to bulk infantry and do not need to be specially easy to put together.

 Quarterdime wrote:
My Herald of Nurgle is a monopose plastic, and after assembling it I can't help but feel like monopose allows them to hide the seams between the different pieces even better than they used to. I barely had to touch it.

Good point the usual torso/legs/arms/head leaves some obvious seams.

Other than the price, the single-pose characters are pretty great from what I've seen. The only ones I don't like are the Painboy and Commissar (simply due to aesthetics), the rest all look as good as metals and just as detailed. This does come at the expense of options, I grant you, but this was also the case with metal/finecast, the difference being that plastic is by far easier to convert.

The issue comes when the Forge World resin is the budget alternative and the single-pose plastics cost as much as a squad.

 Paradigm wrote:
Other than the price, the single-pose characters are pretty great from what I've seen. The only ones I don't like are the Painboy and Commissar (simply due to aesthetics), the rest all look as good as metals and just as detailed. This does come at the expense of options, I grant you, but this was also the case with metal/finecast, the difference being that plastic is by far easier to convert.

The issue comes when the Forge World resin is the budget alternative and the single-pose plastics cost as much as a squad.

I agree on the detail but sometimes I think they go way overboard. Like the Chaos Chosen from DV have (IMO) way too many fiddly bits and bobs on them.

Actually I love the DV chosen, I think they're among some of the best-made minis I've ever had, and the detail is well-defined enough that it doesn't become overbearing. I'd hold them up, along with the DFG Leviathan and the Malifaux 2E plastics as the shining examples of what plastic can do these days in term of detail and crispness.

I guess that's just a matter of aesthetic taste, so I can see why you don't like them.

 Paradigm wrote:
Actually I love the DV chosen, I think they're among some of the best-made minis I've ever had, and the detail is well-defined enough that it doesn't become overbearing. I'd hold them up, along with the DFG Leviathan and the Malifaux 2E plastics as the shining examples of what plastic can do these days in term of detail and crispness.

I guess that's just a matter of aesthetic taste, so I can see why you don't like them.

As far as the sculpt I think they look amazing (although I'm not a fan of the "Let's add weird faces!" motif on a few of them), just when I look at all the fiddly bits first thing isn't "How awesome" it's "How on earth am I going to paint that tiny thing?!" so that's likely why

GW's plastic models have always been a bit soft, thick and lacking detail compared to say Tamiya or Bandai.

That is partly to save moulding costs but also because you don't want a lot of fine detail on models that are to be used for wargaming.

And from the "What's New Today" article about the new plastic Mekboy:

The Mek comes with two right-arm options, one holding a huge wrench, the other wielding a killsaw. Kunningly, both the Mek’s head and right arm can be interchanged with any other Boy-sized model. I reckon a kit-bash with the Mek in the Lootas kit is in order.

 Ghaz wrote:
And from the "What's New Today" article about the new plastic Mekboy:

The Mek comes with two right-arm options, one holding a huge wrench, the other wielding a killsaw. Kunningly, both the Mek’s head and right arm can be interchanged with any other Boy-sized model. I reckon a kit-bash with the Mek in the Lootas kit is in order.

And that's exactly how they should be done.

Wanting a librarian on a bike with a force axe for my White Scars, the monopose plastic librarian is totally useless. So I've bought an old metal one on eBay, have to spend ages grinding it down, and GW have lost my business... Everyone loses!

 WarOne wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if GW makes monopose miniatures so that it makes it that much more difficult for third party bits suppliers to have their pieces added to the original GW model.

I'm wondering if that's it. In between every piece of terrain and board you fight the game on being purchasable and this, I wonder if they are trying to do away entirely with the 'convert your own' and modelling/conversion side of the hobby.

They've launched new paint names, new names for existing armies, and I can easily imagine a similar thought process being behind this (or at least, it could be seen as a perceived benefit). So - you get none of the benefits of the material, which is multiple weapon options and layouts, none of the advantages of resin/metal which can hold more detail for the character sculpts, and then you have to pay more for it to boot. Not saying that the character sculpts are bad, but the bar seems to have been lowered somewhat.

I actually think that's why WD sucks so much these days. Much smaller number of games to write about, with less variation within those games and people doing less to the miniatures, and almost no room for creativity and ideas. It's like if you had a film magazine dedicated to only rom-coms starring Gerard Butler - doesn't matter how good the quality of the journalism or the insight offered by features, you're severely limited by the subject material.

Any one notice that stupid rock they keep putting under characters etc too? So dumb.

I think (like many things) they are killing off creativity by streamlining things. White dwarf, rules/books and characters are being streamlined and it leaves little room to play around or go wild.

It must hurt sales too. I dont know why anyone would buy more than one of the new commissars for example. Even with weapon and head swaps having the same stance and ceremonial rock to stand on kinda kills any idea of having multiples.

Its the kind of streamlining that cuts corners and denies room for change. Which to me seems like they are trying to reduce 3rd party input on their designs while at the same time cutting costs (is it cheaper to make non modular models in terms of design?).

I hate it. Especially that stupid rock many beasts and characters like to stand on.

On a related note, I've bought a couple of recent kits, the first new GW kits in some time, and I'm noting a trend for not only mono pose, but an apparently deliberate attempt to limit a kit's flexibility. Although, weirdly, it doesn't seem to be consistent.

The Burning Chariot is almost, to my eye, impossible to magnetise as both Herald and Exalted Flamer, unless one wishes to have a toe less Herald, or random Herald feet on the Disc when using an Exalted Flamer.

Similarly, the WoC Champion Of Tzeentch (the recent mono pose, plastic one) has part of it's feet moulded into the base, and part on the end of the legs, meaning, without GS work, one cannot use the model on an alternate base (such as a circular one for 40K for instance.)

Conversely, the Skull Cannon/Blood Throne kit is simplicity itself to magnetise.

Also, I think having plastic characters like that fits into the whole "We make toys for kids" kind of mentality.

If the rules didn't allow for variety (which would suck for everybody, admittedly) the monopose would make sense. e.g. if your SM Captain ONLY came with one of: Storm Bolter/Powerfist, Power Sword/Combi-Bolter and Power Fist/Plasma Pistol (going off of the monopose ones available now IIRC). But that seems too far-fetched even for GW to try, having set options for everything instead of variety.

Do the people complaining about monopose plastics realize that everything they're complaining about is true of the monopose metal/finecast models GW has been producing for decades? There seems to be this ridiculous assumption that "plastic" means "lots of customization options", when in reality these are just a replacement for awful metal/finecast stuff.

 Peregrine wrote:
Do the people complaining about monopose plastics realize that everything they're complaining about is true of the monopose metal/finecast models GW has been producing for decades? There seems to be this ridiculous assumption that "plastic" means "lots of customization options", when in reality these are just a replacement for awful metal/finecast stuff.

Yeah but the problem is that a single monopose plastic dude is replacing 4-5 different monopose failcast dudes, so if you have any repeats in your army list they will look like identical twins in an identical action pose.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Any one notice that stupid rock they keep putting under characters etc too? So dumb.

Foot on rock is a fairly standard pose amongst miniatures when sculptors are given free reign to dynamically pose something. Go have a browse through the Infinity range - they're really fond of it too.

 Quarterdime wrote:
My Herald of Nurgle is a monopose plastic, and after assembling it I can't help but feel like monopose allows them to hide the seams between the different pieces even better than they used to. I barely had to touch it.

Your Herald of Nurgle also cost nearly as much as 10 Plaguebearers and that makes no damned sense.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Yeah but the problem is that a single monopose plastic dude is replacing 4-5 different monopose failcast dudes, so if you have any repeats in your army list they will look like identical twins in an identical action pose.

One pose that is a useful model is much better than having a 4-5 pretty catalog pictures of models that no sane person would ever buy. If the cost of getting rid of finecast is reducing the number of "options" I'm quite happy with that trade.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
Any one notice that stupid rock they keep putting under characters etc too? So dumb.

Foot on rock is a fairly standard pose amongst miniatures when sculptors are given free reign to dynamically pose something. Go have a browse through the Infinity range - they're really fond of it too.

I find infinity models yuck as well (not quality just look)

But it doesnt make me hate it any less. I was pretty annoyed to find my first rock character when I got given a Skink priest. Shortly after the commissar and bastilidon had one too. I wanted more bastilidons but I cant bring myself to buy another one its got that silly rock pose.

Some may like it, but I definitely do not.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I've been mostly getting metal the last few years (yeah I know, I know) but I hear the new Ogryns can only be put together one way. The right way. The GW way.

Yeah files and knives and bitz and green stuff can turn anything into anything, but GW does not seem to want to make it easy.

Tempestus Scions are the same.
You've got to cut off the cables to fit special weapons, and each option only fits on a single model. This means that a squad with 3 meltaguns will have 3 identical models, with the same pose.
The 'captain' model is the worst, with the cloak. He's holding a knife! I mean, who throws a knife?

I was so pissed by the Scions price ($35 for FIVE!) and lack of options (ONE of each special weapon?) they were the first IG kit I didn't buy.

Probably never will, there are so many other good sci-fi infantry out there now.

 Peregrine wrote:
Do the people complaining about monopose plastics realize that everything they're complaining about is true of the monopose metal/finecast models GW has been producing for decades?

because the monopose resin/metal don't more than some multipose 1/16 figures

I hated the MT box set, not just because of the price and lack of customization but also because the design look. I wanted 40k SS not Panociena expies!

IDK if they offer a monopose plastic Tau Ethereal but over the years GW have done at least six different metal Ethereal figures (plus Space Pope).

Obviously you can't use more than two in an army without breaking the FOC (if that counts for anything any more...)

 Kilkrazy wrote:
GW have done at least six different metal Ethereal figures (plus Space Pope).

But they're all at least very hard to find compared to plastic, if even currently available at all.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
GW really seem to be working backwards from what looked like a leading position.

I think you have summed up GW's apparent mission statement since 5th edition quite well. The 2009 (?) Space Wolf release was IMO the highlight of GW plastics in terms of quality AND value and it has sadly gone steadily downhill since then.


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 Kilkrazy wrote:
The idea of multi-pose plastic would be to replace multiple mono-pose metal figures with a single flexible kit.

Apart from the utility to the end user, GW would save by not having to carry multiple SKUs. For example, they could do a Space Marine Captain with enough optional heads, shoulder pads and accoutrements to customise the same kit to any of the variant chapters.

Or at least that would be my business reckoning, perhaps not GW's.

Or even a single space marine "power armor HQ box" with bits for them all. Some variant librarian bits, some variant chaplain bits, etc... all on one standard unit sized sprue. It could still make only two models but that IMO would be worth a $30 kit that leaves you with additional bits to bling out normal models with. $20 for a monopose model like a tau fireblade? Hell no... I just cut off a cape from a batman clix model I somehow picked up free a decade ago (can't even remember when) and added a sword to his hip instead. The new commissar is visually a downgrade from the old metal ones and I'm glad I've got a few spare of the old metal bolt pistol ready to execute version to plop into squads if I ever find the need (and the space in my case more importantly). I wasn't entirely happy with the space marine commander box but at least it came with plastic bits that were of alot of use (especially when I started making my Deathwatch truescale squad).

I'm dragging up an old thread but plenty of scope to convert the monopose plastics even with my limited skills;

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/378516.page

I thought the Space Marine and Ork releases were the best stuff GW has been doing recently. Everything else was average with some truly terrible business decisions.

 notprop wrote:
I'm dragging up an old thread but plenty of scope to convert the monopose plastics even with my limited skills;

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/378516.page

I have an acrylic cube I got given as a sample



This is Great News! because there is plenty of scope to convert it to anything I like, including a Stealth Suit.

I must admit that the "single pose" models look very nice and take little work for the average modeler that just wants to "get 'er dun". There is a problem of only using them once if not wanting to risk hacking up an expensive model.

For me, I look at it as "challenge accepted".
I still like metal figures but plastic in comparison makes modifications insanely easy.

At $20+ a pop, you shouldn't have to feel obligated to drastically convert it just to get a second one with a bit of variety. At $20 for a single plastic model, you should have options to vary it up significantly right out of the box just like the space marine commander.

 Kilkrazy wrote:


This is Great News! because there is plenty of scope to convert it to anything I like, including a Stealth Suit.

It was an answer to the OPs suposition that the plastic monopose a were more difficult to convert, this morning I remembered it had been put to the test. I suggest it isn't anymore difficult than any othe conversion work.

Anyway you shouldn't have any trouble converting anything you like; what with that diamond sharp wit you should be able sculpt whatever you like old chap.

I have already designed a squad of Invisiods, what do you think of the concept photo?

It is hard to tell. Can you pose it next to some other minis to gauge the size/scale? You made the rookie mistake of assuming everyone knows how it will look alongside their own collections. Also, you didn't tell us what material the final product will be made out of.

Duh! It's a concept not a finished piece!!

You wag KK, they're quite clearly hidden behind the flower pots at the top of the picture.

GW has started doing monopose models because they are deathly afraid that I might ever be tempted to buy anything from them again.

Making a single pose, single sprue, no options, overpriced piece of plastic is the best way that they could figure to prevent me from ever buying from them.

And they were right... except for Finecast - that still beats even the plastic one pose wonders.

The Auld Grump

 Skinnereal wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I've been mostly getting metal the last few years (yeah I know, I know) but I hear the new Ogryns can only be put together one way. The right way. The GW way.

Yeah files and knives and bitz and green stuff can turn anything into anything, but GW does not seem to want to make it easy.

Tempestus Scions are the same.
You've got to cut off the cables to fit special weapons, and each option only fits on a single model. This means that a squad with 3 meltaguns will have 3 identical models, with the same pose.
The 'captain' model is the worst, with the cloak. He's holding a knife! I mean, who throws a knife?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNhYJgDdCu4

Here is your answer

However, I agree it's BS about the lack of poseability and options as well. I have waited since 2ed for plastic Ogryns as well and I was so disappointed with the mono-posed plastic kit we got (that and poor rules).

 warboss wrote:
I think you have summed up GW's apparent mission statement since 5th edition quite well. The 2009 (?) Space Wolf release was IMO the highlight of GW plastics in terms of quality AND value and it has sadly gone steadily downhill since then.

Yeah. If released today that box'd have 5 models in it and cost the same price.

Actually... the Space Wolf Marine sprue makes 5 models, so I guess we can expect them to get "Dire Avenger'd" come the next release.

Because they are trying to close down the finecast production line like they did the metal one to rationalise their production lines. Just using plastic will make their lies easier

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 warboss wrote:
I think you have summed up GW's apparent mission statement since 5th edition quite well. The 2009 (?) Space Wolf release was IMO the highlight of GW plastics in terms of quality AND value and it has sadly gone steadily downhill since then.

Yeah. If released today that box'd have 5 models in it and cost the same price.

Actually... the Space Wolf Marine sprue makes 5 models, so I guess we can expect them to get "Dire Avenger'd" come the next release.

I agree totally that they'd be a 5 man kit instead like Sanguinary Guard and Grey Knights if remade today. I don't think though that they can split without being completely useless due to missing bits. When they're rereleased, I suspect they'll instead just up the price with some new box art but no sprue change like they did with chaos marines recently.

 warboss wrote:
I don't think though that they can split without being completely useless due to missing bits. When they're rereleased, I suspect they'll instead just up the price with some new box art but no sprue change like they did with chaos marines recently.

They can though. Look at the sprue:



That's the complete sprue. Makes 5 minis. The box just has two of those in it. They can take one of the sprues out, just like they did with Dire Avengers, and keep the price the same.

You are indeed correct. I was forgetting that the 5 guys come on those two and for some reason was thinking that the two plasma weapon sprues were connected instead of one of each. They can indeed screw over players.

That is a great kit for spare bits! I hadn't seen it on sprue before. Aside from some of the derpier heads that's a really well designed product. (Until it is cut in half)

 Eldarain wrote:
That is a great kit for spare bits! I hadn't seen it on sprue before. Aside from some of the derpier heads that's a really well designed product. (Until it is cut in half)

It is absolutely great. When I was assembling a space wolf army (or parts of it to match what I bought assembled), I had *plenty* of choices on those sprues. There are probably twice as many heads and at least 50% more arm/weapon combos then you need with a great selection for close combat weapons (although the shooty options are limited to bolt and plasma weapons only). I figured the GK line would be the same as it was the next completely redesigned line of marines but it instead mirrored the blood angels more. I expected the death co and sanguinary guard to be 5 man kits but GK somehow I expected to be sold in groups of 10 as power armor troops core choices. I guess we should be happy since a 5 man kit with alot of posability is still better than a 1 model kit with NO poseability.

 warboss wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
That is a great kit for spare bits! I hadn't seen it on sprue before. Aside from some of the derpier heads that's a really well designed product. (Until it is cut in half)

It is absolutely great. When I was assembling a space wolf army (or parts of it to match what I bought assembled), I had *plenty* of choices on those sprues. There are probably twice as many heads and at least 50% more arm/weapon combos then you need with a great selection for close combat weapons (although the shooty options are limited to bolt and plasma weapons only). I figured the GK line would be the same as it was the next completely redesigned line of marines but it instead mirrored the blood angels more. I expected the death co and sanguinary guard to be 5 man kits but GK somehow I expected to be sold in groups of 10 as power armor troops core choices. I guess we should be happy since a 5 man kit with alot of posability is still better than a 1 model kit with NO poseability.

I agree that the SW kit is probably the best SM plastic, both in terms of awesomeness and sheer value for money.

The GK kit I was OK with simply as there were so many options in it; if I recall correctly, there were about 20+ CCW in the box as well as an absolute ton of extras, details and special weapons.

There are some things that can’t be done in multi-pose. Like the SoB pulling out a grenade pin with her teeth. That said, in the sternguard kit there is an arm resting on a sheathed powersword, a bit I never thought I’d see in a multi pose kit.

The pricing is all over the place though. If I wanted a Space Marine captain, I have a number of options.

There are the new mono-pose plastics at $30
The mono-pose finecast captains at $22.25 (came out with apoc)
The old multi-pose plastic also at $22.25
A selection of named finecast characters in the $20 range.
The old masters of the chapter box with 4 finecast captains for $33

Or if I want something more modern then the old multi pose captain box, either of the sternguard or vanguard veteran boxes will make 5 marines worthy of leading a company for $50 or $40 depending on which one you grab.

For the $30 plastic I would have like to see more options then just a head swap. Some of the other mono-pose kits (for other armies) have a nice number of options, even for a static mini. But for a cost that’s vastly higher then anything similar, for no options, my mind boggles.

I think they're trying to cut down on bits because they don't like bits sellers on eBay making money off GW's stuff.

 Breotan wrote:
I think they're trying to cut down on bits because they don't like bits sellers on eBay making money off GW's stuff.

You've got something there I expect.

The sheer facepalmery of trying to shut down a mini-industry that is wholly dependent on the purchase of your product, and then failing to fulfil the demand yourself cannot be understated, but it does seem to be their aim, both in word and deed.

At the risk of re-igniting the rather tedious price argument, doesn't $30 seem rather a lot of money for a single 28mm figure that doesn't have any options at all?

I mean, inflation and everything but at the start of 40K you could buy 60 multi-pose Space Marines with a bunch of equipment options for $30.

Not wanting to sound whiney but it looks a complete rip-off. Who would be idiot enough to buy one when you can get a Scibor model for half the cost?

 Kilkrazy wrote:
At the risk of re-igniting the rather tedious price argument, doesn't $30 seem rather a lot of money for a single 28mm figure that doesn't have any options at all?

I mean, inflation and everything but at the start of 40K you could buy 60 multi-pose Space Marines with a bunch of equipment options for $30.

Not wanting to sound whiney but it looks a complete rip-off. Who would be idiot enough to buy one when you can get a Scibor model for half the cost?

More to the point, you can head over to Forge World and buy any of the following for within £1.50 of the plastic mono-pose:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Red_Scorpions/COMMANDER_CULLN_OF_THE_RED_SCORPIONS_.html
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space_Marine-Infantry-and-Accessories/TYBEROS_THE_RED_WAKE.html
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space_Marine-Infantry-and-Accessories/RAVEN_GUARD_SHADOW_CAPTAIN_KORVYDAE.html
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space_Marine-Infantry-and-Accessories/LUGFT_HURON_CHAPTER_MASTER_OF_THE_ASTRAL_CLAWS.html

Or you can spend a few pounds more and get two models, an awesome captain and a Standard Bearer/other command model, or even legion-specific markings:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space_Marine-Infantry-and-Accessories/MKII_COMMAND_SET.html
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space_Marine-Infantry-and-Accessories/MKIII_COMMAND_SET.html
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space_Marine-Infantry-and-Accessories/SPACE_MARINE_MkIV_COMMAND_SET.html
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/The_Horus_Heresy/Legiones_Astartes/Space_Marine_Legion_Army_List/Legion_HQ/LEGION_CHAMPION_AND_MASTER_OF_SIGNAL.html
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/The_Horus_Heresy/Legiones_Astartes/Space_Marine_Legion_Army_List/Legion_HQ/LEGION_PRAETORS.html
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/The_Horus_Heresy/Legiones_Astartes/Sons_Of_Horus/SONS_OF_HORUS_LEGION_COMMAND.html

Since when was Forge World and 'premium' GW resin the budget option?

 Breotan wrote:
I think they're trying to cut down on bits because they don't like bits sellers on eBay making money off GW's stuff.

I doubt it. The metal/finecast monopose models these replace didn't have any bits for the ebay sellers. Plus, shutting down bits sellers by removing bits is just suicidal stupidity. If a customer is buying single parts from a third-party seller then they're obviously working on some kind of conversion that needs the part. The only way GW wins is if they can force the customer to buy a whole kit from GW to get that part. So whatever GW does they have to keep manufacturing the same part, or that customer just doesn't buy anything at all. And I don't think GW is so spiteful that they'd reduce the quality of their own products just to make sure that someone else doesn't make any money either.

Reducing the amount of official bits available just fuels the market for Chapter House and other makers to produce bits.

Yeah, it's still a shame though, because CHS and their ilk will make alt weapons, shoulder pads etc, but they'll never make fiddly bit X from sprue B of this or the other kit, which is what I often find myself trawling Bitz sellers for.

Maybe they will in future.

It is not clear right now if extremely expensive single mono-pose character figures are to become the GW standard.

The market may accept this GW offering, or not, how difficult would it be to make a resin set of option parts to make a Librarian, Captain, Tech Marine and so on?

If customers are looking at $30 each for the official monopose versions, it gives 3rd party companies a lot of scope for selling variation kits to convert standard SM figures.

I suspect there are many greens, sketches and CAD files just waiting for the final outcome of the CHS case...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 warboss wrote:
I don't think though that they can split without being completely useless due to missing bits. When they're rereleased, I suspect they'll instead just up the price with some new box art but no sprue change like they did with chaos marines recently.

They can though. Look at the sprue:

That's the complete sprue. Makes 5 minis. The box just has two of those in it. They can take one of the sprues out, just like they did with Dire Avengers, and keep the price the same.

Well then - that's exactly what is going to happen sometime in the next 12 months at the current rate. Better grab some while you can, for anyone interested.

Even before this monopose plastic trend, it seemed almost criminal to me that incredible plastic HQ kits like the Empire General don't have 40k analogues. Imagine being able to make a foot or bike SM captain from one box with tons of great bits? It nearly beggars the imagination.

I don't understand a $30 mono pose kit. I understand less the people that would buy it.

 MWHistorian wrote:
I don't understand a $30 mono pose kit. I understand less the people that would buy it.

Sigged

Yeah, just compare it to Empire Wizards. Two models with tons of options.... versus one SM Librarian with no options. I don't get it.

 eohall wrote:
Even before this monopose plastic trend, it seemed almost criminal to me that incredible plastic HQ kits like the Empire General don't have 40k analogues. Imagine being able to make a foot or bike SM captain from one box with tons of great bits? It nearly beggars the imagination.

THAT would be worth $30 for a single dude: If you got all the bells and whistles to make him basically however you want: It could include things like all five types of combi-weapons (Storm Bolter, Plasma, Flamer, Melta, Grav), Thunder Shield or w/e that one thing is called, Relic Blade, a big-ass chainsword (Teeth of Terra or w/e it's called), a jump pack, a bike, 2x claws, and a variety of heads.

Instead you get... one different head, and everything else is identical.

 heartserenade wrote:
Yeah, just compare it to Empire Wizards. Two models with tons of options.... versus one SM Librarian with no options. I don't get it.

GW doesn't raise the prices for all their models in one go, which is why we have the above, and also a Dwarf powerful troop unit unit costing twice as much as the equivalent for Skaven.

So Michelangelo's David would have been better if it was posable?

PapaSoul wrote:
So Michelangelo's David would have been better if it was posable?

I don't see why not

PapaSoul wrote:
So Michelangelo's David would have been better if it was posable?

Yes. Then you could actually see his facial expression as people would not be then confused at the size of his ding dong.

 Grimtuff wrote:

PapaSoul wrote:
So Michelangelo's David would have been better if it was posable?

Yes. Then you could actually see his facial expression as people would not be then confused at the size of his ding dong.

I don't think he realised a multipose David would probably also have a massive multiposeable wang

PapaSoul wrote:
So Michelangelo's David would have been better if it was posable?

Of course! It's be so much easier to convert/kitbash!

Still, I suppose you only need one per army, it's not like you're building squads of them...

PapaSoul wrote:
So Michelangelo's David would have been better if it was posable?

I always wanted to get Mickey's David with various 'weapon' options.

Lol, all of the responses to that were fantastic, Kudos!

I thought of this thread today after spending 2 hours gluing Catachans together.

There's posers then theres taking it too far. Those old skeletons? The pewter hormagaunts? How bout the plastic clan dwarfs that specific heads and bodies went together?

Those Catachans are terrible! Rather then having an arm with weapon attached, they decided they'd give you the gunstock attached to an arm and a full lasgun. You get to clip each lascannon to size then glue it to the arm, and with you third arm you can attach the Catachan's second arm. I'm still trying to figure out which arms are the flamer arms!

Im sorry but for rank and file guys, having legs, torso, head, two arms and a gun (with other attachable bobbins) is a little too much. Especially when your doing 100s. I'l take the orcs from Black Reach and a bucket to carry them. Thats posable enough, and they survive a trip to and from the store without regluing anything.

Too many pieces isn't better.

These are not rank and file guys they are special characters like SM captains.

The main reason I can think of for this move in manufacturing (which is what GW is: manufacturing with a tacked on front-end retail store) is due to the progression in technology and the cost-benefit analysis.

You only need a small mold plate (which is far less of an initial investment than one or two medium sized molds) so that saves on the upfront cost. The sprue would most likely be designed in the way it is (strange breaks, only fits together in one way) as a result of the CAD programs which take the 3d render and cut it up in the most efficient way to fit in the sprue. As we've seen recently whilst this saves space it makes larger sprues an absolutely nightmare to navigate for new entrants into the HHHobby. Whilst they probably could fit it for some of the models, the larger models like the Beastman Bray-Shaman would be impossible to fit inside that sprue area if it was down to arms/legs/body/head/base. Not saying this is good, but with their self-imposed size restrictions on the one-sprue characters, it's the best that they could possibly do.

I don't know if there's any savings on the plastic clam pack over the standard cardboard box, but they'd take up a lot less room and cost less for transport. So overall they'd have much less to make up for with these packs then they would with either the poseable HQ/hero/lord choices or any regular troop set.

The only one that I've bought more than one of was the Runelord/smith kit, which was because they actually have the biggest potential for conversions (easy to replace hands, 2 options of heads etc) and if they were able to just cram more onto the sprue it would actually make them half viable, but as it stands: not a fan of the whole ordeal.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
These are not rank and file guys they are special characters like SM captains.

meaning what??

 44Ronin wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
These are not rank and file guys they are special characters like SM captains.

meaning what??

Meaning there was a period when special characters came with different options (The old chaos lorde comes to mind). Even in Metal they had separate arms and sometimes head options.
I don't know if this is another GW attempt to kill 3rd suppliers from making parts, But for me it has the opposite effect.

 44Ronin wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
These are not rank and file guys they are special characters like SM captains.

meaning what??

Phydox was making the point that monopose models are a good idea because it is tiresome to have to assemble dozens of multi-part models for rank and file infantry.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 44Ronin wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
These are not rank and file guys they are special characters like SM captains.

meaning what??

Phydox was making the point that monopose models are a good idea because it is tiresome to have to assemble dozens of multi-part models for rank and file infantry.

For some - others, myself included, vastly prefer the poseable, multi-part models, whether they are for characters or rank and file.

*EDIT* I especially liked the original plastic multi-part Empire plastics

The Auld Grump

 Peregrine wrote:
When the alternative is probably making a monopose finecast model I'm not going to complain. At least a monopose plastic model is probably going to be cast correctly and won't bend/break as soon as I look at it too hard.

I'm enjoying plastics, I came into the 40K Universe where the majority of models were mono-pose metal miniatures. Producing metals in a spin caster is time consuming, and eventually the mold loses details as more models are made from it. Eventually you have to make a new mold.

The old mono-pose metals are a favorite of mine, yet they are difficult to cut up with a jeweler's saw even. Cutting up the plastic models is much easier. Plastic kit production is much much faster in the injection mold machines as compared to a spin caster. I won't miss Finecast! Although I have limited experience with it.

Really though, I think a single figure kit should be like the multi-part Space Marine tactical Marine, load of posses, and options.

The Finecast range won't be missed by me, that's for sure. The problem was that I have very limited conversion skills and wanting an Ork Warboss with Powerclaw, 'Eavy Armour, Ammo Runt and Boss Pole was not exactly an easy thing to do. Sure it would've been bad on the table but I wanted the option to do so. Many of my models spend their time sitting on a shelf somewhere as a display item. Weapon options and general variety in wargear is, IMO, important. I've bought about 4 or 5 of the SM Captain kit with all the wargear and bitz and whilst I was expecting a tiny bit more, was perfectly satisfied with what I had.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 44Ronin wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
These are not rank and file guys they are special characters like SM captains.

meaning what??

Phydox was making the point that monopose models are a good idea because it is tiresome to have to assemble dozens of multi-part models for rank and file infantry.

Really? Just buy these, you don't even have to paint them!

Believe it or not, those make great painting practice figures for beginners.
I got my mini-painting start painting old MARX figures, similar to the figures in your photo, back in the "60s.

Something to remember is GW trialled monopose plastics in Fantasy, and there it made perfect sense. Fantasy has no WYSIWIG requirement, and Fantasy gamers have gotten used to this. When characters have options that cover multiple enchanted shields, talismans, different types of weapons, books, scepters, crowns... Any semblance of WYSIWIG is right out the window.

In that situation, a dynamically posed, badass looking single pose character is much more preferable to a multipart kit that ends up looking pretty samey due to arms and heads needing to fit a common body. Compare the (actually very well made) Empire Battle Wizards to the Vampire Counts Necromancer. You can see the duplicated body across the kit, with a few different details to mark the different schools, like hands holding a ball, or the same left arm holding a staff with different heads, toilet paper hanging off their neck, etc. But the details are very flat because of the limitations of everything working with a common body. The Necromancer, however, has a much more dynamic pose, even though it's the same 'stepping forward' pose. It has more layered details, and better depth to the details due to the layers (like the cloak). Overall just a much nicer model because of the set pose and no options. In a game like Fantasy, this makes more sense, because it really doesn't matter what you equip him with, he doesn't have to reflect it.

This isn't reserved for plastics - the Infinity range is a good example. Squad boxes have two duplicate bodies (in one case, one duplicate body done 4 times), with arms made to make them look different. Sometimes it works, sometimes it just looks like the same model with a different gun. Sometimes it makes no sense (like the Sekban holding a pistol but still with both pistols in holsters at his hips).

The problem of bringing this type of character to 40k is purely down to 40k's WYSIWIG rules (either official or expected by the community at large) and the wealth of options available. In a situation like Fantasy, a Space Marine captain with a bolter could sub for a captain with a bolt pistol, plasma pistol, combi bolter, storm bolter or even pair of lightning claws. Games Workshop designed the 40k single pose plastic around the Fantasy character ideals. The smarter thing to do would have been to make them nicely dynamically posed, but leave the actual weapon slots blank, with weapons that could fit there if you wanted to.

Basically they took the lessons they learned from Fantasy, and incorrectly applied them to a range of 40k models.

The conspiracy theories against bits sellers and third party manufacturers in this thread are fething loony. GW's just doing them to replace old metals single pose miniatures, and they're posed the same way to reflect that. Plastic is cheaper to cast, and they can probably fit multiple character sprues on a single mold, which saves on cost. Yeah, it isn't what we want exactly, but it's not metal or Finecast. If you don't like an option on the model, convert it. It's plastic. It's not generally hard. You can't do much about the pose all the time, but weapon and head swaps are pretty easy, and in plastic they're stupid simple most of the time.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 44Ronin wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
These are not rank and file guys they are special characters like SM captains.

meaning what??

Phydox was making the point that monopose models are a good idea because it is tiresome to have to assemble dozens of multi-part models for rank and file infantry.

He'd hate this then



Yep, thats a multipart 6mm epic scale space marine...

 Brother SRM wrote:
The conspiracy theories against bits sellers and third party manufacturers in this thread are fething loony. GW's just doing them to replace old metals single pose miniatures, and they're posed the same way to reflect that. Plastic is cheaper to cast, and they can probably fit multiple character sprues on a single mold, which saves on cost. Yeah, it isn't what we want exactly, but it's not metal or Finecast. If you don't like an option on the model, convert it. It's plastic. It's not generally hard. You can't do much about the pose all the time, but weapon and head swaps are pretty easy, and in plastic they're stupid simple most of the time.

If it's cheaper why does it cost $30 for something with no extra bits?

Exactly. You seen the cost of that Nurgle Herald? Costs almost as much as a box of 10 of his closest buddies. That's highway robbery.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
The conspiracy theories against bits sellers and third party manufacturers in this thread are fething loony. GW's just doing them to replace old metals single pose miniatures, and they're posed the same way to reflect that. Plastic is cheaper to cast, and they can probably fit multiple character sprues on a single mold, which saves on cost. Yeah, it isn't what we want exactly, but it's not metal or Finecast. If you don't like an option on the model, convert it. It's plastic. It's not generally hard. You can't do much about the pose all the time, but weapon and head swaps are pretty easy, and in plastic they're stupid simple most of the time.

If it's cheaper why does it cost $30 for something with no extra bits?

He never said it was cheaper for us.

It's all about the profit margin...

It reminds me of the single sprue Commander and Libarian. At first when I saw them. Oh cool so like the old school commander set for the space marines where you are given a bunch of things.

But now its like 30$... For a single model. That is plastic. Its not even that great of a pose.

I think with a multipart kit gives alot of options. I usually save my bits for later dates and plan them out.

 Asherian Command wrote:
I think with a multipart kit gives alot of options.

That's the issue, really. Multipose kits have far more static posing (unless you put a lot of work into them), but are built to incorporate many bits, which they tend to have on the sprue or are compatible with the rest of the range. Single pose kits allow the sculptors to dictate the posing, without the restriction of requiring each arm, gun, sword or other bit to be able to fit well, which allows a lot more interesting overall models.

There's a market for both, I just don't think 40k is the right market for single pose models. At least, single pose models with hard to change weapons. The new Ork warboss is an example of a good multipart plastic character.

 Peregrine wrote:
Do the people complaining about monopose plastics realize that everything they're complaining about is true of the monopose metal/finecast models GW has been producing for decades? There seems to be this ridiculous assumption that "plastic" means "lots of customization options", when in reality these are just a replacement for awful metal/finecast stuff.

I think the beef is that they aren't making as many options as they used to, when it came to monopose metal and plastic kits.

When GW released the monopose Commissars late in 2nd edition, they released a few of them at a time. Now we've got this one guy that reminds me a bit of Captain Hook.

 Koppo wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 44Ronin wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
These are not rank and file guys they are special characters like SM captains.

meaning what??

Phydox was making the point that monopose models are a good idea because it is tiresome to have to assemble dozens of multi-part models for rank and file infantry.

He'd hate this then



Yep, thats a multipart 6mm epic scale space marine...

I think Epic was only in plastic and metal. There are no resin miniatures like that space marines made in 6mm scale.

 sing your life wrote:

 Koppo wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 44Ronin wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
These are not rank and file guys they are special characters like SM captains.

meaning what??

Phydox was making the point that monopose models are a good idea because it is tiresome to have to assemble dozens of multi-part models for rank and file infantry.

He'd hate this then



Yep, thats a multipart 6mm epic scale space marine...

I think Epic was only in plastic and metal. There are no resin miniatures like that space marines made in 6mm scale.

*buzzer*

You seem to have forgotten the many and varied released Forge World did for Epic, in rezin. Many of the aircraft were then repurposed for Aeronautica Imperialis (or whatever the plane game was called - I'm away from my books at present).

The resin multipart Epic Space Marine was a piece of Forge World insanity, which I think was a show-only model.

 Dysartes wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

 Koppo wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 44Ronin wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
These are not rank and file guys they are special characters like SM captains.

meaning what??

Phydox was making the point that monopose models are a good idea because it is tiresome to have to assemble dozens of multi-part models for rank and file infantry.

He'd hate this then



Yep, thats a multipart 6mm epic scale space marine...

I think Epic was only in plastic and metal. There are no resin miniatures like that space marines made in 6mm scale.

*buzzer*

You seem to have forgotten the many and varied released Forge World did for Epic, in rezin. Many of the aircraft were then repurposed for Aeronautica Imperialis (or whatever the plane game was called - I'm away from my books at present).

The resin multipart Epic Space Marine was a piece of Forge World insanity, which I think was a show-only model.

It was a show-only model. I've got a couple still on the sprue. They also did an entire line for Tau/Kroot infantry in resin for Epic.