Well, two new SW flyers will be available next time.
Not sure about their stats.
But do you like their look? Look too cubic for me.

Space Marine vehivles and ships always have that look. It's very blocky, bulky and doesn't really look like it should be effective.

But it is. Like a supersonic sledgehammer.

These gunships/transports descend on your world, your firepower bounces off of its hull plating and huge, super-fast giants jump out of the front of it to tear up your battleline.

It's all very Space Marine, and I think it works fine with their current aesthetic

It may be my internal aversion to anything wolfish, but I think it's the ugliest flier GW produced. It looks like fusion of the worst elements of previous fliers combined. It could have looked more like stormtalon.

Isn't there already a 38 page thread about these in another sub forum?

Toofast wrote:
Isn't there already a 38 page thread about these in another sub forum?

Here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1110/605383.page#7059492

But it is in the rumor's board and will eventually be locked when the boxes will come out.

Love it, big fan of the aesthetics. Also, cheap Caestus, or just use it as per the rules. The guns seem pretty potent in both loadouts.

It's not really a cheap Caestus when 2 of these are the same cost as a Caestus.

I like 'em, especially the stormwolf. I'll most likely end up looting one and turning it into an ork blitza-bommer.

As for their stats, they are in WDW.

BS 4 F12 S12 R12 HP3, 215 points. Flyer, Hover, Transport, can carry 16 models. Fast attack.

The stormwolf comes with a twin-linked helfrost cannon, a twin-linked lascannon and two twin-linked heavy bolters that can be replaced with a skyhammer missile launcher (free) or two twin-linked multi-meltas for 20 points.

It has ceramite plating, Power of the Machine Spirit and is an Assault Vehicle. The helfrost cannon has two profiles: dispersed and focused. Dispersed is 24" S6 AP3 Heavy 1, Helfrost, Blast; while focused is 24" S8 AP1 Heavy 1 Helfrost.

Helfrost: When a model suffers one or more unsaved Wounds from this weapon, it must pass a separate Strength test for each Wound suffered or be removed from play.

The skyhammer missile launcher is 60" S7 AP4 Heavy 3.

The stormfang has the same profile as the stormwolf, is also a flyer, can hover and has a transport capacity of 6. It costs 220 points and is a heavy support unit.

It is armed with a helfrost destructor, two twin-linked heavy bolters and two stormstrike missiles. Also has ceramite plating. It has Power of the Machine Spirit. It can replace its twin-linked heavy bolters with skyhammer missile launcher (free) or twin-linked multi-meltas (20 pts.) and it can replace the stormstrike missiles with a twin-linked lascannon for 15 points.

The helfrost destructor also has two profiles. Dispersed is 24" S6 AP3 Heavy 1, Helfrost, Large Blast. Focused is 24" S8 AP1, Heavy 1, Helfrost, Lance. The stormstrike missiles are 72" S8 AP2 Heavy 1, Concussive, One Use Only.

Overall, they seem pretty strong, but not overly so for their points cost. Helfrost seems like a really nasty rule against multi-wound targets like nobs and centurions.

I looked over the WDW for a while today and was reasonably happy with the rules. Pretty powerful but also pretty expensive.

Model wise, I don't like it, for many reasons that have been beaten to death in the rumours thread.

How about the fact that 99% of leagues and tournaments don't allow FW?

They look like Sucide gliders

The opposite of elegant and streamlined.

What about space wolves screams "elegant and streamlined" to you?

Toofast wrote:
What about space wolves screams "elegant and streamlined" to you?

Indeed, beer and being frosty and clumsy comes to my mind.

Y'know, I really like the Stormwolf, but not the other variant. The Stormwolf brings to mind something of a Higgins Boat IN SPACE--and I kinda like that, especially seeing as it's looking like the Land Raider Crusader of flyers. The turret seems kinda odd, I would've probably liked it better without it or with it being some sort of rear-facing anti-air weapon, but other than that I love the space-lander look the vehicle has. I could see one of these careening out of orbit to disgorge a pack of terminators all over a bunker complex.

The Stormfang, however, doesn't look like a proper gunship to me. It looks too much like the lander it shares a kit with!

 Likan Wolfsheim wrote:
Y'know, I really like the Stormwolf, but not the other variant. The Stormwolf brings to mind something of a Higgins Boat IN SPACE--and I kinda like that, especially seeing as it's looking like the Land Raider Crusader of flyers. The turret seems kinda odd, I would've probably liked it better without it or with it being some sort of rear-facing anti-air weapon, but other than that I love the space-lander look the vehicle has. I could see one of these careening out of orbit to disgorge a pack of terminators all over a bunker complex.

The Stormfang, however, doesn't look like a proper gunship to me. It looks too much like the lander it shares a kit with!

I totally agree with you. I love the stormwolf. Its looks perfect for its role. The stormfang on the other hand... I suppose it just doesn't look like the flying cannon it's supposed to.

The rumours about the Stormwolf being a dedicated transport for Space Wolves really makes me want to get a few, especially for Terminators, 8 in the box and a good tank killer afterwards

Toofast wrote:
How about the fact that 99% of leagues and tournaments don't allow FW?

Who and what is this a reply to..?

Looks ridiculous to me, both from aesthetics (a flying shoebox) and price ($81? Are they fething kidding?). A couple of weeks ago I was excited to look at buying Stormclaw, and since then it's just vanished. Gak like that doesn't help.

ImAGeek wrote:

Toofast wrote:
How about the fact that 99% of leagues and tournaments don't allow FW?

Who and what is this a reply to..?

Welcome to Dakka, where every single thread is an opportunity to have the FW legality argument yet again. But snark aside, he was referring to the Caestus discussion.

They look like shoes to me. However the fast attack variant look like it could be worth the points as it in the fast attack slot so you could still take long fangs and predators.

I think it looks like the worst aspects of the Caetus and the Stormtalon, which were both horrible-looking models, rolled into a single miniature. But obviously all SW players will have to have at least 2 because the rules are so OP.

Hated Stormtalon and the other one - refuse to buy one- I like these

 Avatrass wrote:
It may be my internal aversion to anything wolfish, but I think it's the ugliest flier GW produced. It looks like fusion of the worst elements of previous fliers combined. It could have looked more like stormtalon.

+1. But you can forge a great narrative with that centerpiece of junk.

That flyer was originally built by Mek Specialist Garlen Tygrol who tried to build his very own Viper (Mork II) out of an old cockpit, a couple spare engines and the spoiler he once salvaged from a truck wreck... he told his grots he needed a frame, and was just appalled when he saw what they'd found... a dumpster bin. He proceded to thouroughly kick their asses...
"What am I going to do with that piece of crap? * "
"Hey... Seems to fit... somehow. Why not?"
Specialist Tygrol just proceded to convert the flyer to a mini-landa, and called her the StormOrk (Mork I).

During the Great War, the StormOrk was looted by Space Wolves, who found that flyer to be wonderful and quite elegant (we're talking about Space Wolves...) and named her "FluffyPuppy". They procedeed to build more of these highly advanced ships (remember, they're just Space Wolves...), and found the original name engraved in the ship's hull.

- Sto... Stor... Stormo...
- We should ask the Wolf-Sergent. That reading thing is good for Ultramarines...
- You're right, Wolf-Brother.
- I think it's an A. Stormak.
- There's an... errr... R, that's it? Yeah, StormArk!
- Nice job, Wolf-Sergent. Maybe welf should give her a true Wolf-Name, if we really want to integrate Wolf-Squadrons of these Wolf-Flyers so they can carry the Wolf-Units of our Wolf-Company.
- What about StormArkWolf? WolfStormArk ?

Three hours later, the StormWolf was born.

I was on board until I saw that they come equipped with freeze guns, because well, Space Wolves are totally like vikings who are associated with snow, right?

Ugh. My god, at least they could have made it some sort of "Heavy Grav Gun", or something, to at least keep a *little* distance from space-fantasy.

There should be a special rule where you have to yell "Everybody Freeze" in your best Ahhhnold voice when you fire it.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I was on board until I saw that they come equipped with freeze guns, because well, Space Wolves are totally like vikings who are associated with snow, right?

Ugh.

There should be a special rule where you have to yell "Everybody Freeze" in your best Ahhhnold voice when you fire it.

Could've been worse.

They could've been Canis Wolf missiles.

You do have me there. That is actually a little surprising that they missed that chance, seeing as this model debuts alongside a special character called "Murderfang".

They should have had it equipped with a catapult that fires smaller catapults, which in turn fire wolves.

Given the Imperium is sci-fi ww2 aesthetics, I don't mind the ships chunkiness, it's basically a water landing craft:


The freeze/cold stuff is annoying and "Murderfang" bollocks is just ridiculous, but I was never a SW fan. If these flyers are similar sized to Caestus and the wolf crud is easy to avoid or shave off I might just pick some up from a US discounter.

That being said, it does look undoubtedly "Astartes". They nailed that aesthetic just fine.

I'm just not sure why the Space Wolves don't just use Stormravens for the exact same roles as the Stormfang, other than for the direct purpose of it giving Space Wolves a huge $80 model like all the other "races" have, as that's the latest GW goal.

Looks like my space Vikings are finally getting a space long boat. Might get rid of the wolf's head icon.

Oh my, ...well.....it definitely looks like... it was built with ramming in mind.

Picture the top down view.

I like the look of it.

pm713 wrote:
I like the look of it.

Why? It's a flying box with guns.

 sing your life wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I like the look of it.

Why? It's a flying box with guns.

So?

pm713 wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I like the look of it.

Why? It's a flying box with guns.

So?

Because the rules appear to say it can travel at about 700mph, despite the obvious effects of air resistance.

I really have to look into the issue on sci-fi vehicles later, but this is probably one of the worst ones I've seen. When I look at a sci-fi ship there's always the look that it can fly, even if it's non-atmospheric. The X-wing for example has a decent engine&wing/hull ratio that right off the bat looks fit to fly. Even something without wings like the Millennium Falcon has larger engines in the main hull to look like it's capable of propelling itself.

This is just a mess. Four very small engines for such a large and clunky body that are fastened to the very rear end. A larger rear jet and smaller forward one would probably have fixed this issue. If they wanted to do a single set it should have been moved forward more to at least attempt to look like it's balanced out. The wings are so small that they are completely irrelevant, either give them a larger size or just cut them entirely.

I get that it's sci-fi. I know they have anti-grav generators and that really they could make a flying seamless cube with guns strapped to it if they wanted to. The problem is that it won't look appealing or efficient. The problem with this is that it looks like someone tried to convert a dumpster into a missile in as many embarrassing steps as possible and then for no reason people decided to ride in it.

 sing your life wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I like the look of it.

Why? It's a flying box with guns.

So?

Because the rules appear to say it can travel at about 700mph, despite the obvious effects of air resistance.

Again so? I'm not going to say it makes sense but that doesn't make any difference to how it looks. Regardless of realism I like the look.

pm713 wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I like the look of it.

Why? It's a flying box with guns.

So?

Because the rules appear to say it can travel at about 700mph, despite the obvious effects of air resistance.

Again so? I'm not going to say it makes sense but that doesn't make any difference to how it looks. Regardless of realism I like the look.

I like models to look at least slightly realistic. This miniature abomination has none of that.

 sing your life wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I like the look of it.

Why? It's a flying box with guns.

So?

Because the rules appear to say it can travel at about 700mph, despite the obvious effects of air resistance.

Again so? I'm not going to say it makes sense but that doesn't make any difference to how it looks. Regardless of realism I like the look.

I like models to look at least slightly realistic. This miniature abomination has none of that.

YOU do. I don't care much overall.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
That being said, it does look undoubtedly "Astartes". They nailed that aesthetic just fine.

I'm just not sure why the Space Wolves don't just use Stormravens for the exact same roles as the Stormfang, other than for the direct purpose of it giving Space Wolves a huge $80 model like all the other "races" have, as that's the latest GW goal.

I thought it was a Stormraven variant based on the name, I haven't really looked at the model closely but I see now that it is infact a new model

I mean it is an AV12 assault vehicle..

 Bludbaff wrote:

ImAGeek wrote:

Toofast wrote:
How about the fact that 99% of leagues and tournaments don't allow FW?

Who and what is this a reply to..?

Welcome to Dakka, where every single thread is an opportunity to have the FW legality argument yet again. But snark aside, he was referring to the Caestus discussion.

Yeah but no one said anything about FW legality... Someone said 'cheap Caestus' cos I'm guessing they meant converting two of these into a Caestus, but two of these are the same price as a Caestus.

I was actually just reminded of this. This, for those unfamiliar, is Shockwave's vehicle mode in Transformers: War for Cybetron.

This is a very efficient design to me. It has short wings, but decently sized compared to the overall body, large engine directly connected to the main hull, slim body but still with the look of a big flying gun. The space wolf flyer is too thick, wings way too small for the body, the engines look too small and are too poorly placed for efficient balance since it appears to be the only thing keeping it flying.

 Captain Avatar wrote:
Oh my, ...well.....it definitely looks like... it was built with ramming in mind.

Picture the top down view.

That's the first time I've heard that critique.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 Captain Avatar wrote:
Oh my, ...well.....it definitely looks like... it was built with ramming in mind.

Picture the top down view.

That's the first time I've heard that critique.

Now picture the gunship in an eight-bit video game.....firing its cannon.

Just talking about the rules a minute - these things are INSANE for their points cost.

Look at the stormraven:
-Tl assault cannon or tl lascannon
-Tl multimelta
-2 tl hurricane bolters
-Cap of 12
230pts
I personally think the mm is the most scary thing on this as you can place a mm shot pretty much anywhere on the table with it being a flyer.

Now the new girls (how I would take them):
Stormwolf:
-TWO tl multimeltas
-Tl lascannon
-Tl hellfrost cannon (24" st6 ap3 blast or 24" st8 ap1 shot)
-Cap of 16.
235pts
So for the price of 6 tl bolters and 5pts you get, 1 extra tl mm, a tl hellfrost cannon and a capacity of 4 more. For the mm alone that is more than worth the points!

Stormfang:
-TWO tl mulitmeltas
-Tl lascannon
-Hellfrost destructor (24" st6 ap3 large blast or st8 ap1 lance shot)
-Cap of 6
255pts
So for the cost of 6 tl bolters, 25pts and a loss in capacity of 6, you get 1 extra multimelta and a weapon which is amazing against both tanks, infantry (all the way up to 2+ saves) and flyers.

Not to mention that the stormwolf is a FA choice and the stormfang is a HS choice so you can have 3 of each in 1 FOC.

They have been hailed as the best AA out there. Scrap that - they are the best anti-superheavy out there! Lets look at that. An ork stompa with a kff big mek inside with the fixer uppaz, grot riggers and 2 extra super rokkits (what I reckon the most common build will be for the stompa not including burna boys with 3 meks), costs 940pts. For just 20pts more you can have 3 stormwolves and one stormfang fully upgraded like above, giving you EIGHT twin linked multimelta shots, 4 twinlinked lascannon shots, 3 st8 ap1 shots and a st8 ap1 lance shot... That will smash the stompa in one turn of shooting!
What else for 1000pts can take out a stompa with huge overkill in ONE turn? Remember - they will be bubblewrapped against normal melta, but nobody can bubblewrap 12" in every direction if they jave just spent half their points on a superheavy!
Best bit is that most superheavies are pants against flyers ao usually just ignore them - they certainly cant do that now.

Against ANYTHING with an armour value, either form of these are gold and make a raven look like a pyrovore in comparison (and the raven is ok for its points).

And for the years that people were annoyed at helldrakes - well now we have another flyer with a st6 ap3 (large blast instead of template).

And don't forget hover - if your opponent hasn't moved, once it has done one attack run it can simply drop into hover, move 6" and do an about turn, melting all that rear armour.

They both also have the advantages of the raven being an assault vehicle (risky I know) and having ceremite plating.

If you are a competative SW player, why WOULDNT you want multiples of each of these?

What is the obsession with "pretty" war machines? I think it looks functional and was purpose built to be crude brutal and frosty. ;-) fits a barbaric war band. " Them pretty boys from the BA chapter got a nice new Roll Royce flyer, let's build a big ass Ford 4X4 flying Hog and grab a keg or two and got mess something up" for the wolf time!

Given its size i suspect it will have stormraven statistics, AV12 all around with possible melta-resistance (which is actually getting less and less important as Armorbane is getting common, and thats not Melta).

That thing has to be the largest non-FW flier so far. Wingspan may not be the widest (by a longshot) but its definitely got the length and girth.....wow did i seriously just compare it to a cubic dick? lol.

Personally i think it looks kinda stale. Then again, all space marine crap looks pretty similar across the armies. Space Wolves may have a lot of differences to non-chaos marines, but theyre still very similar.
Theres a reason i dont play marine armies lol. The marine armor looks cool, i hate the rest of their models with a passion.

I am a Space Wolf player, and I've been getting tired of people bitching about Space Wolves being SM+1 for years.
That being said: It really feels like a Stormraven+1. For a slight points bump you get a huge bump in transport capacity and a small damage boost, or else a slight decrease in transport capacity but a huge damage boost. Why do Space Wolves only use these weapons? Why don't Space Marines have these rather better weapons? Why don't Space Wolves use Stormravens instead, possibly with changed weapons?

Why don't we all have Fast Vehicles? Why don't we all get jetbikes? Why don't we all get Force weapons? No point in different people using the same stuff.

pm713 wrote:
Why don't we all have Fast Vehicles? Why don't we all get jetbikes? Why don't we all get Force weapons? No point in different people using the same stuff.

Considering how many people usually end up going from SM to Space Wolves because of their power level, pretty sure many are going to be using the same stuff in the end,.

Waaaghpower wrote:
I am a Space Wolf player, and I've been getting tired of people bitching about Space Wolves being SM+1 for years.
That being said: It really feels like a Stormraven+1. For a slight points bump you get a huge bump in transport capacity and a small damage boost, or else a slight decrease in transport capacity but a huge damage boost. Why do Space Wolves only use these weapons? Why don't Space Marines have these rather better weapons? Why don't Space Wolves use Stormravens instead, possibly with changed weapons?

They probably think it doesn't matter now cos of unbound.

This is actually one fo the few new SM models that I really like. I don't know it just looks ominous. That being said, of course since I like it is just for SW, which I don't play.

I understand that the chapters need to be different, but they are all SM. If one chapter figures out how to get a type of vehicle, another should be able to as well. I know I've said this before, like DA standing next to BA, and saying, "Oh, you guys put flamers and assault cannons on a predator. Good idea. Too bad we can't do that, that's BA only"

They should be separated by choice of structure and tactics.

Anyway, tirade aside, I really do like these. I was thinking about getting on to convert and use as a StormRaven (I only play casual so no one will care), but they are probably about 30 - 40 $ too much.

I like the look but the hull mounted lascannon/missiles just looks off to me, I would have to mount them on the wings.

I might have been watching clouds with my kid too much this summer, but I see oversized flying wolf heads. With the right paint job it could actually look cool.

If this were a boarding craft for ship-to-ship in space, then it'd be cool. Or if it were an amphibious landing craft.

But for a flyer, this thing is ugly. It looks like it's about to tip forward on it's nose and get stuck that way. It's worse than the Taurox.

Looks like a BFG space ship.

looks like it could fly in space, but not in any atmosphere.

makes the stormtalon look good, now im thinking about buying a stormtalon...maybe that was GWs plan all along.

All of GW SM flyers looks really good if you're doing something like the Space Sttion battle from Crusade of Fire, they're just ugly if they're in the atmosphere.

every time the Imperium gets a new codex and the new vehicle is unveiled the complaints start. "ohh it's too blocky!"

well yes it's blocky and inellegent, why would you expect a complete change in Aestetics?

folks, let's take a look for a moment at the Aestetic of Imperium vehicles.



First up the Rhino. it's a friken metal box. no smooth lines not elegence.



Next up the Land Raider (crusader pattern) it's more or less an upsized rhino aesteticly speaking. a box of metal on treads.



Next up moving away we have the lemen russ, The IoMs favorite battletank. likewise it's pretty block, it's not smooth it's very squarish.



of particular note here is the Land speeder. a design that, reasonably should be aerodynamic but it's not.



the storm raven, it has wings but if you tried to claim this sucker was aerodynamic you'd be laughed out of the room.it's still very very blocky.



the Storm talon. it;s pretty blocky as well. you can if you look at it actually see a relation to the stormtalon.


the dark angels actually have tried to produce fliers that look semi aerodynamic, but at it's core you can still see that blocky design aestetic.



In a nutshell the IoM just doesn't build their units fluid and nice (in fact I'm beginning to wonder if they can, perhaps one of the limits of their STC fragment based tech base is a tendancy towards block modularity?) it's not their aestetic. never will be.

METAL BAWKSES!

blaktoof wrote:
METAL BAWKSES!

exactly

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, two new SW flyers will be available next time.
Not sure about their stats.
But do you like their look? Look too cubic for me.

It looks like the worst possible and laziest example of what I would imagine to be the accidental lovechild-abortion of a Stormtalon and Caestus ram.

It's like someone was just messing around with autocad files and stuck a shoebox with Caestus details where the Stormtalon's turret weapon was supposed to be and threw it into the Space Wolves release for a laugh. Either that or GW is just really desperate to get a flyer out for each codex book without putting much design effort into it.

Guys guys guys..... chill out for just a second, mmmmmkay?

It's a frickin' sci-fi universe we are talking about here. The rules of physics simply do not, and should not apply, at least as we know and understand them.

Who the hell cares if it looks like it wouldn't be able to fly? It's the aesthetic that matters, not if it would actually work as a subsonic aircraft.

It's a game!

If you don't like the look of it, that's fine. But don't feel like you have to justify your opinion by bitching about its ability as an aircraft. Remember, it doesn't actually exist

 sarpedons-right-hand wrote:

It's a frickin' sci-fi universe we are talking about here. The rules of physics simply do not, and should not apply, at least as we know and understand them.

Who the hell cares if it looks like it wouldn't be able to fly?

It's the aesthetic that matters, not if it would actually work as a subsonic aircraft.

But the problem is that your mind views ability alongside the aesthetics. You can just look at something and imagine all the engineering problems that it's going to have to overcome just to be able to get off the ground. That's also kind of the problem with this.
Yes you could put in something that makes it overcome air friction.... or... just make the nose a bit less like a brick wall.
You could say it has omni-directional thrusters and anti-grav devices... or give it larger wings, larger standard engines, and better balanced design.
Most people can see the design and realize the glaring flaws that a could be easily overcome in the design phase to make it more efficient.

Yes with anti-grav magic you could literally have flying sofas and have them traveling at mach 8 with some magic air resistance negation field.
But that doesn't mean that you're going to like the look of a hovering sofa without maneuvering equipment getting into a dog fight. Just because you can make a giant flying wolfhead with a nose gun, doesn't mean you should expend all available resources to make it possible.

Yes, having a boxy APC or tank is one thing. But this is supposed to be a straight up flyer. The existing flyers don't look particularly aerodynamic, which is fine for game mechanics since it helps with the AV facings and helps them fit on the table better. But how is this thing supposed to hover? It's engines aren't anywhere close to its center of mass. It has no steering mechanism! These things look awful. And for the record, the storm raven is awful too.

The ad mech rubs it down with secret emperor oil that is obtained from the golden throne itself from a secret dark age of technology means, and mixed with Stormcheetah blood [matt ward did tell me this himself] Stormcheetahs are much like fenrisian wolves, but are actually fenrisian cats that are very fast. Thay are armed with frostfangs and frostclaws. That aside. It is well known that Magnus the Red, prior to falling to chaos was an avid stormcheetah collector, and his apartment boasted not 3 but 9 stormcheetahs. He took them with him when prospero burned but they turned on him and while he slept urinated their names on his books, and found there way into the warp to meet up with Draigo. Draigo has trained them to henceforth pee on any daemon primarchs hearts he might carve his name into from here on out, as that is his new thing.

when the holy oil is anointed unto any metal bawkses, they will be capable of anti gravity and flight.

true story.

Imperium vehicles appeal to people without imagination.

ImAGeek wrote:

Toofast wrote:
How about the fact that 99% of leagues and tournaments don't allow FW?

Who and what is this a reply to..?

The comments about 2 of them being the same price as a caestus. Good luck using a caestus in anything but friendly games. If I spent $180 on a model I would like to be able to use it whenever I want.

It looks too much like a caestus assault ram and a Storm talon had a lovechild.



+



looks rather silly. much like the Stormtalon and its stubby wings do.

I'm not sure I'd say "it has design hallmarks in common with other imperium fliers" is a bad thing though. it hints at a common ancestory

 TheSilo wrote:
Yes, having a boxy APC or tank is one thing. But this is supposed to be a straight up flyer. The existing flyers don't look particularly aerodynamic, which is fine for game mechanics since it helps with the AV facings and helps them fit on the table better. But how is this thing supposed to hover? It's engines aren't anywhere close to its center of mass. It has no steering mechanism! These things look awful. And for the record, the storm raven is awful too.

Maybe its because I am an ork at heart, but if they think it works, it will.

I'll just repost what I posted on the previous thread, to me, if it actually behaved like an assault ram, I'd probably be fine with it.

The Stormtalon looks stupid because, to me, it looks like an underwater vehicle. It looks like a fat little fish more than it looks like an aircraft. Canis Wolfborn's TW looks like a friggen pomeranian. No matter how much you tell me it's a giant vicious wolf, it looks like a pomeranian. The Thunderbolt and Marauder could not fly, or if they could they could only fly at very low speeds and extremely uncomfortably for the pilots, but they have the proportions of a WW2 plane so to me, they look kinda cool. The Thunderhawk and Stormeagle push the limits of wacky proportions (to me) but they still manage to pull it off and look cool. The Stormraven pushes those limits too far and looks stupid (for some reason Forge World typically manages to get better proportioned vehicles to my eye than GW proper).

We all have different limits and no amount of "space magic" can take something we perceive as stupid as suddenly looking awesome. To me, the Storm-wolfy-mc-wolf looks like a front heavy brick crossed with an irish terrier with tiny little wings that serve no purpose. It looks like something that might have a place being fired from one ship at another ship as a form of boarding and it looks maybe like something you'd fire at a giant futuristic fortification to do as much damage as possible (like a brick would do...) and then unleash some troops.

As an aircraft that's actually supposed to "fly" above a battlefield, making strafing runs and what not, it just looks too ill suited to the task which makes it look ugly as hell to me.

Yeah, sure, as a seaborne or spaceborne landing craft it looks fine (even if it still does look like a fething irish terrier), it just doesn't work for me as an aerial combat vehicle.

To me it looks like a rocket thats fired from a base or ship. It looks like it either bounces along the ground with the rockets propelling it forward until it reaches its target (if its accurately fired) and the surviving crew jump out and fight.

Or for the 'gunship' its fired in the same manner but the ship attempts to shoot the targets as it flies over them before it crashes into the ground.

They enforced my theory by adding armoured plating to the underside of the craft to help protect the cargo from being too harmed in transit.

In short, this thing cannot fly (which is expected) but it also doesnt look even remotely flyable (which is not fine).

For people who dont enjoy putting thought into designs or how things work etc, they may be fine with this vehicle. But for many who think about how things should work or could work this vehicle is probably a disaster.

In my opinion this flyer looks better than ALL THE OTHER GW flyers but I think those suck as well.

Overall, the one design bit they got right was its nose tilted to the ground. Because thats the only believable thing about this 'craft'.

Anything can fly with enough thrust.

Perhaps in the far future and grim darkness, engines are stupidly powerful to such a degree that the concept of aerodynamics can be for the most part ignored. Even with tiny little wings some aircraft can still fly due to their sheer power.
The real X-15 comes to mind, stubby wings and a massive Rocket Engine. That alongside anti-grav tech and multiple VTOL thrusters all over the place must keep them flying.

Reminds me of my Gmod Days where "aircraft" made my players had thrusters placed on the bottom of the wings and fuselage to keep them flying (as they were too lazy to use the "Fin" tool to give objects some semblance of lift). Where sheer brute force thrusters were used to fly and steer aircraft. besides that Hover balls welded to the aircraft made them into instant hover craft.

Stormflang still kinda silly though.

Looks more like an F-Zero racer than some sort military craft.

Also, if you take the top off the front section, it'll look like a dump/garbage space truck.

Its better than the Stormraven at least. With some larger wings, and more thrusters under the nose (it looks like its going to nose dive) it might look good.

Yet another opportunity for Chapter House Studios.

 Engine of War wrote:
Anything can fly with enough thrust.

Perhaps in the far future and grim darkness, engines are stupidly powerful to such a degree that the concept of aerodynamics can be for the most part ignored. Even with tiny little wings some aircraft can still fly due to their sheer power.
The real X-15 comes to mind, stubby wings and a massive Rocket Engine. That alongside anti-grav tech and multiple VTOL thrusters all over the place must keep them flying.

Reminds me of my Gmod Days where "aircraft" made my players had thrusters placed on the bottom of the wings and fuselage to keep them flying (as they were too lazy to use the "Fin" tool to give objects some semblance of lift). Where sheer brute force thrusters were used to fly and steer aircraft. besides that Hover balls welded to the aircraft made them into instant hover craft.

Stormflang still kinda silly though.

Yes but those rockets with small wings are also not square. They also arent incredibly front heavy. The SM flyer looks very heavy too.

Everything works against it except it being propelled stupidly fast before it burns out and crashes after its short flight.

I think with enough wingspan this flyer could be very cool. But needs bigger engines and wingspan. With those it will look far better than any other SM flyer out there.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Engine of War wrote:
Anything can fly with enough thrust.

Perhaps in the far future and grim darkness, engines are stupidly powerful to such a degree that the concept of aerodynamics can be for the most part ignored. Even with tiny little wings some aircraft can still fly due to their sheer power.
The real X-15 comes to mind, stubby wings and a massive Rocket Engine. That alongside anti-grav tech and multiple VTOL thrusters all over the place must keep them flying.

Reminds me of my Gmod Days where "aircraft" made my players had thrusters placed on the bottom of the wings and fuselage to keep them flying (as they were too lazy to use the "Fin" tool to give objects some semblance of lift). Where sheer brute force thrusters were used to fly and steer aircraft. besides that Hover balls welded to the aircraft made them into instant hover craft.

Stormflang still kinda silly though.

Yes but those rockets with small wings are also not square. They also arent incredibly front heavy. The SM flyer looks very heavy too.

Everything works against it except it being propelled stupidly fast before it burns out and crashes after its short flight.

I think with enough wingspan this flyer could be very cool. But needs bigger engines and wingspan. With those it will look far better than any other SM flyer out there.

it needs the wings off the ceastus (something it didn't inherit from the love-in, it somehow inherited its stormtalon fathers piddly wings)




I think its more a modeling issue for the square wings on many models. the ork wings have a better airfoil but if I remember right, the wings come in 2 pieces (bottom and top halves)

But I agree. The thing is front heavy. I tried to model a few aircraft in a game called X-plane once. lets just say.... I had to unfortunately use the "stupidly power engine" concept. expecially with trying to have wings with the cross section of a brick....

Never made a caestus (or will) as its more a space-borne craft. plus X-plane doesn't have any "anti grav" things to attach to aircraft.

EDIT: Nevermind, not really relevant.

So nobody at all wants to talk about its abilities? Shall I start a separate thread and leave this one about the aesthetics? Not trying to be glib, just wondering if people would rather this thread be kept about its looks?

Poly Ranger wrote:
So nobody at all wants to talk about its abilities? Shall I start a separate thread and leave this one about the aesthetics? Not trying to be glib, just wondering if people would rather this thread be kept about its looks?

I second that.

Poly Ranger wrote:
So nobody at all wants to talk about its abilities? Shall I start a separate thread and leave this one about the aesthetics? Not trying to be glib, just wondering if people would rather this thread be kept about its looks?

I think looks are far more important than abilities. It could auto kill 1 squad a turn, but its so ugly I would never buy it.

Thats just me though. But yea if thats what you want by all means go ahead. Im sure Space Wolf players wouldnt mind talking about its effectiveness.

One thing I wouldnt mind having a flyer for is carrying 16 models. Which this flyer can do.

Poly Ranger wrote:
So nobody at all wants to talk about its abilities? Shall I start a separate thread and leave this one about the aesthetics? Not trying to be glib, just wondering if people would rather this thread be kept about its looks?

If you want to talk about it's rules you need to start talking about it's rules. Feel free to do so, we don't need another thread. If you have something to say, just say it.

I just did create another thread. I did start talking about its rules. A big post. Nobody replied. I don't mind that, I realise people atm are more focused upon its looks since it is a new release. I just like discussing rules and uses in-game. I have created another thread to prevent a mix up of discussions on here as it looks like people are enjoying the aesthetics discussion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not meaning to 'thread steal' (is that a thing?), just thought it would be more convenient for everybody.

It's probably because at this point no one cares about its rules, we don't even know all of what's going to be in the codex yet alone what rules the rest of the codex will have.

To me it definitely seems very shooty for the points, but I'm not really sure it's worth spamming it.

I get what you mean about not knowing what would be in the rest of the dex, but that didn't stop mek gunz or flash gitz discussions for orks.
With the potential for LOWs focussed anti-tank may become even more important in 7th. Besides - the rest of the army can deal with troops if you let multiples of these flyers be your AA/AT.
I'll leave it at that though as I don't want to derail the aesthetics discussion.

It looks like a stormraven got caught having sex with a shipping container.

 chromedog wrote:
It looks like a stormraven got caught having sex with a shipping container.

Stormtalon more, and they're still in the act.

 TheSilo wrote:
If this were a boarding craft for ship-to-ship in space, then it'd be cool. Or if it were an amphibious landing craft.

But for a flyer, this thing is ugly. It looks like it's about to tip forward on it's nose and get stuck that way. It's worse than the Taurox.

Sorry, nothing's worse than the Taurox.

Poly Ranger wrote:
I just did create another thread. I did start talking about its rules. A big post. Nobody replied. I don't mind that, I realise people atm are more focused upon its looks since it is a new release. I just like discussing rules and uses in-game. I have created another thread to prevent a mix up of discussions on here as it looks like people are enjoying the aesthetics discussion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not meaning to 'thread steal' (is that a thing?), just thought it would be more convenient for everybody.

Got a link I cant seem to find it.

Absolutely LOVE the model (but I love the cestus assault ram) - and it is AMAZING for the points.


I hope it eventually comes to other marine lists, but in looking at the sprues, it looks like prolly not (lot of the wold icons are on the main parts of the model).

davethepak wrote:
Absolutely LOVE the model (but I love the cestus assault ram) - and it is AMAZING for the points.


I hope it eventually comes to other marine lists, but in looking at the sprues, it looks like prolly not (lot of the wold icons are on the main parts of the model).

also the flier would be largely redundant for most other Marine armies as every other army of Marines (except Dark angels, poor guys) has access to the storm raven, which pretty much fills the same niche.

Oh my beloved Dark Angels...
Just comparing these SW Flyers with the DA flyers makes my eyes tear up.
You cannot be serious...

For 40 points more you gain:
+ 1 armour all around
Ceramite Plating
Power of the Machine Spirit
Transport Capacity
A Helfrost Destructor instead of a TL LC
72" S8 Ap2 Concussive Missiles instead of 36" S7 Ap4 Missiles (albeit 4 less)
and the ability to take dif. loadouts to further increase the versality of this thing.
You do loose unrelenting hunter (worthless anyway) and strafing run.

Cheesus, my grate lord.. save my codex!

 Anpu42 wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
I just did create another thread. I did start talking about its rules. A big post. Nobody replied. I don't mind that, I realise people atm are more focused upon its looks since it is a new release. I just like discussing rules and uses in-game. I have created another thread to prevent a mix up of discussions on here as it looks like people are enjoying the aesthetics discussion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not meaning to 'thread steal' (is that a thing?), just thought it would be more convenient for everybody.

Got a link I cant seem to find it.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/607401.page

 Thairne wrote:
Oh my beloved Dark Angels...
Just comparing these SW Flyers with the DA flyers makes my eyes tear up.
You cannot be serious...

For 40 points more you gain:
+ 1 armour all around
Ceramite Plating
Power of the Machine Spirit
Transport Capacity
A Helfrost Destructor instead of a TL LC
72" S8 Ap2 Concussive Missiles instead of 36" S7 Ap4 Missiles (albeit 4 less)
and the ability to take dif. loadouts to further increase the versality of this thing.
You do loose unrelenting hunter (worthless anyway) and strafing run.

Cheesus, my grate lord.. save my codex!

yeah the dark angels fliers are priced up there with the high end fliers, but performance wise are closer to the stormtalon.
It's a shame really, aesteticly those are some of my favorite fliers for the imperium.

I will agree that it is not pretty, but in the same way an A-10 Warthog or F-4 Phantom is not pretty.
They are a pair of ugly brutal looking aircraft and they should be.
As far as it not being able to fly in an Fantasy/Sci-Fi Setting...
>The Millennium Falcon
>Tie Fighters
>Y-Wing
>Colonial Viper
>The Lander from Space 1999
>The STF-1
>Sharks [Yes that is a Sharknado Reference]
>Star Trek Shuttles
>Voltron
>The Cab from the 5th Element
>SAMAS Suits from Rift

So have no issues with a "Flying" Cargo Container. It probably uses Contra-Grav to Hover and the engines give it thrust.

'

 Anpu42 wrote:
I will agree that it is not pretty, but in the same way an A-10 Warthog or F-4 Phantom is not pretty.
They are a pair of ugly brutal looking aircraft and they should be.
As far as it not being able to fly in an Fantasy/Sci-Fi Setting...
>The Millennium Falcon
>Tie Fighters
>Y-Wing
>Colonial Viper
>The Lander from Space 1999
>The STF-1
>Sharks [Yes that is a Sharknado Reference]
>Star Trek Shuttles
>Voltron
>The Cab from the 5th Element
>SAMAS Suits from Rift

So have no issues with a "Flying" Cargo Container. It probably uses Contra-Grav to Hover and the engines give it thrust.

'

How can you say that the A10 and F4 are ugly?

 TheSilo wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
I will agree that it is not pretty, but in the same way an A-10 Warthog or F-4 Phantom is not pretty.
They are a pair of ugly brutal looking aircraft and they should be.
As far as it not being able to fly in an Fantasy/Sci-Fi Setting...
>The Millennium Falcon
>Tie Fighters
>Y-Wing
>Colonial Viper
>The Lander from Space 1999
>The STF-1
>Sharks [Yes that is a Sharknado Reference]
>Star Trek Shuttles
>Voltron
>The Cab from the 5th Element
>SAMAS Suits from Rift

So have no issues with a "Flying" Cargo Container. It probably uses Contra-Grav to Hover and the engines give it thrust.

'

How can you say that the A10 and F4 are ugly?

They are, the A-10 was named Thunderbolt II, it was the pilot's who named it the Warthog
The F-4 is a flying Brick.

By the way I do love both of them, they are just not pretty.

 Anpu42 wrote:
I So have no issues with a "Flying" Cargo Container. It probably uses Contra-Grav to Hover and the engines give it thrust.

I sure hope an Astra Militarium Colonel didn't buy that gravity technology from the Eldar to give to the Tau who then gave it back to us for a users fee... (showing my age a bit here; look up Iran-Contra scandal).

Like everyone else, it's ugly, but it's growing on me. Comparing it to an A-10 or F-4? Hmmm. Maybe an F-111 Aardvark would be a better analogy...

 Tamwulf wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
I So have no issues with a "Flying" Cargo Container. It probably uses Contra-Grav to Hover and the engines give it thrust.

I sure hope an Astra Militarium Colonel didn't buy that gravity technology from the Eldar to give to the Tau who then gave it back to us for a users fee... (showing my age a bit here; look up Iran-Contra scandal).

Like everyone else, it's ugly, but it's growing on me. Comparing it to an A-10 or F-4? Hmmm. Maybe an F-111 Aardvark would be a better analogy...

I want one armed like this

 Anpu42 wrote:

 Tamwulf wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
I So have no issues with a "Flying" Cargo Container. It probably uses Contra-Grav to Hover and the engines give it thrust.

I sure hope an Astra Militarium Colonel didn't buy that gravity technology from the Eldar to give to the Tau who then gave it back to us for a users fee... (showing my age a bit here; look up Iran-Contra scandal).

Like everyone else, it's ugly, but it's growing on me. Comparing it to an A-10 or F-4? Hmmm. Maybe an F-111 Aardvark would be a better analogy...

I want one armed like this

Are... Are my eyes decieving me? Are those four gatling gun pods under the wings? Did someone steal my letter to Santa and make it reality?

 Savageconvoy wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 Tamwulf wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
I So have no issues with a "Flying" Cargo Container. It probably uses Contra-Grav to Hover and the engines give it thrust.

I sure hope an Astra Militarium Colonel didn't buy that gravity technology from the Eldar to give to the Tau who then gave it back to us for a users fee... (showing my age a bit here; look up Iran-Contra scandal).

Like everyone else, it's ugly, but it's growing on me. Comparing it to an A-10 or F-4? Hmmm. Maybe an F-111 Aardvark would be a better analogy...

I want one armed like this

Are... Are my eyes decieving me? Are those four gatling gun pods under the wings? Did someone steal my letter to Santa and make it reality?

Yeup!

Man, another thread that's gone the way of talking about the probability of a sci-fi vehicle flying in a sci-fi universe? Such productive discussion.

I love these things, the two coming into my FLGS already belong to me. Take a deep breath, get ready to see them on the field and be ready to find a counter because the Emperor's Executioners are going to do what they do best....now from the air.

Trying to convince me about the probability of this beast flying won't help you when it's maw opens into your ravaged front lines, so lets try to have fun with it!