In case anyone is currently unaware of the situation War Machine (an MMA fighter known for having mental problems) recently beat his girlfriend, Christy Mack (a fairly well known pornstar) into a bloody pulp recently and is now on the lam.
Edit: I just now read her account of the assault and apparently this is not the first time her beat her...
Police are looking for MMA fighter War Machine -- aka Jon Koppenhaver -- after he reportedly delivered a savage beating to his ex-girlfriend, 23-year-old adult film actress Christy Mack.
I bet right about now he wishes he would've come up with another name.
The pair broke up in May, which apparently didn't keep him from showing up at her home Aug. 8. He allegedly assaulted Mack and a male friend, who managed to escape.
Mack wasn't so lucky. She tweeted Monday that she suffered "18 broken bones around my eyes, my nose is broken in 2 places, I am missing teeth and several more are broken. I am unable to chew, or see out of my left eye. My speech is slurred from my swelling and lack of teeth. I have a fractured rib and severely ruptured liver from a kick to my side. My leg is so badly injured I have not been able to walk on my own. I also attained several lesions from a knife he got from my kitchen. He pushed the knife into me in some areas such as my hand, ear, and head. He also sawed much of my hair off with this dull knife. After some time, the knife broke off of the handle and he continued to threaten me with the blade. I believed I was going to die. He has beaten me many times before, but never this badly."
Mack wrote that she escaped to a neighbor's house when Koppenhaver went to the kitchen to find a sharper knife. The neighbor took her to a hospital.
If you're feeling nauseous, you aren't the only one.
Koppenhaver is reportedly missing, according to HollywoodLife.com. Las Vegas Police told MMAFighting.com he's currently wanted as the "primary suspect," after leaving two victims with "severe but nonlife threatening injuries."
According to TMZ, there are seven arrest warrants issued: two felony batteries, one strangulation, two felony domestic violence with great bodily injury, felony coercion with the threat of force, felony assault with a deadly weapon, and misdemeanor assault with a deadly weapon.
Mack frequently worked with adult product company Fleshlight, which is offering a $5,000 reward for "any information that leads to his apprehension and arrest."
Koppenhaver defended himself Sunday on Twitter, writing that he went to Mack's home Aug. 8 to surprise her with an engagement ring.
"I'm not a bad guy, I went to surprise my gf, help her set up her show and to give her an engagement ring and ended up fighting for my life," he wrote.
He later wrote a series of tweets, saying, "The cops will never give me fair play, never believe me. Still deciding what to do but at the end of the day it's all just heart breaking. I only wish that man hadn't been there and that Christy & I would be happily engaged. I don't know y I'm so cursed. One day truth will come out."
Yes, he's the one who's cursed. It must have been that other guy's fault that a trained fighter named War Machine beat a woman into the hospital.
He also tweeted directly to Mack, writing (pasted together by HollywoodLife) "love you and hope you're okay. I came home early to surprise you and help you set up for your convention. I can't believe what I found and can't believe what happened. All I wanted was to surprise you and help and do something nice ... now this.. I'm so heart broken ... in all ways. I will always love you. I just wanted to see your face when I surprised you with the ring ... this is a nightmare. You're in my thoughts."
His employers don't seem to agree; MMA tournament group Bellator terminated War Machine's contract.
"We have a zero-tolerance policy here at Bellator when it relates to any form of domestic violence," Bellator president Scott Coker told TMZ. "After learning of this latest incident involving (Jon Koppenhaver) War Machine, Bellator is releasing him from his promotional contract with the organization."
Now Dog Chappman of Dog the Bounty hunter fame has tossed his ring into the hat and declared that he is going to bring War Machine down. He's stated that their efforts to catch War Machine will be aired as an episode even if unsuccessful.
He is living up to the stereotypes of MMA well then... Christy Mack seems like a very nice person from her twitter account in the past (Ye, I follow porn stars on twitter.) Hopefully he will do the right thing and turn himself in.
I suspect this is mostly about publicity for Dog. I find it amusing how many people on the comments on that site are saying "He'll get himself killed chasing an MMA fighter"... Ye, really helping the stereotype there...
Anyway, for anyone who is interested, here is Christys full statement. Be warned though, the images on the site (not in the spoiler) are a little graphic, but nothing horrific (Bruising and swelling) but the statement from Christy is brutal. She does not sugar coat it at all, so don't read if you are likely to be upset.
What I will say is the statement makes it clear this was not just an angry rage and went on far longer than just lashing out in anger (not that this is an excuse).
"At about 2 a.m. Friday morning, Jon Koppenhaver arrived announced to my home in Las Vegas, NV. After he broke up with me in May, he moved out of my house and back to San Diego. When he arrived, he found myself and one other fully clothed and unarmed in the house. Without a single word spoken, he began beating my friend; once he was finished, he sent my friend away and turned his attention to me. He made me undress and shower in front of him then dragged me out and beat my face. I have no recollection of how many times i was hit. I just know the injuries that resulted from my beating. My injuries include 18 broken bones around my eyes, my nose is broken in 2 places. I am missing teeth and several more are broken. I am unable to chew, or see out of my left eye. My speech is slurred from my swelling and lack of teeth. I have a fractured rib and severely ruptured liver from a kick to my side. My leg is so badly injured, I have not been able to walk on my own. I also attained several lesions from a knife he got from my kitchen. He pushed the knife into me in some areas including my hand, ear and head. He also sawed much of my hair off with his dull knife.
After some time, the knife broke off of the handle and continued to threaten me with the blade. I believed I was going to die. He has beaten me many times before, but never this badly. He took my phone and cancelled all of my plans for the following week to make sure no one would worry about my whereabouts. He told me he was going to rape me, but was disappointed in himself when he couldn't get hard. After another hit or two, he left me on the floor bleeding and shaking, holding my side from the pain of my rib. He left the room and went to the kitchen where I could hear him ruffling through my drawers. Assuming he was finding a sharper, more stable knife to end my life, I ran out the back door, shutting it behind me so the dogs did not run inside to tip him off. I hopped the fence to the gold course behind my house and ran into a neighboring house. naked and afraid he would catch me, I kept running through the neighborhood running through the doors. Finally, one answered and I was brought to the hospital and treated for my injuries.
I would like to thank everyone for their support through this rough time. I am healing fast and well, and I appreciate a lot of the prayers and visits I have received over the past few days. After many months of fear and pressure to keep this man happy, although I fear for my life, I feel that I can no longer put myself in this situation. The cheating by him nearly everyday, and almost weekly abuse, is now more than I can stand. There is a $10k reward for the capture of Jonathan Koppenhaver at this time. Please report any information to your local police.
He deserve to be caught, He clearly is either a massive a-hole, who is now lying through his teeth to gain support, or he needs mental help, I hope he gets caught quickly
Hordini wrote: Dog and his crew have access to a lot of equipment. It's not going to be a one-on-one fist fight between this guy and Dog.
They don't have guns. It still won't be even.
Don't get me wrong, I want him nailed, Christy Mack is small as hell and he unleashed the machine on her, she is going through utter misery right now - but Dog coming out of retirement to blab about getting him is just comedy. War Machine will be able to one-shot most of them, he doesn't 'miss' or 'glance' like your typical moron throwing fists at people.
Hordini wrote: Dog and his crew have access to a lot of equipment. It's not going to be a one-on-one fist fight between this guy and Dog.
They don't have guns. It still won't be even.
Don't get me wrong, I want him nailed, Christy Mack is small as hell and he unleashed the machine on her, she is going through utter misery right now - but Dog coming out of retirement to blab about getting him is just comedy. War Machine will be able to one-shot most of them, he doesn't 'miss' or 'glance' like your typical moron throwing fists at people.
I'm pretty sure they have bear mace and tazers though. Dog knows his business well enough to not let it turn into a fist fight.
I'm not familiar with bounty hunters, but does every fugitive carry a reward if they are apprehended?
From what I've heard, they often hunt people who've skipped bail, and the reward comes from the person who paid their bail, as they can stand to lose money as a result of the criminal skipping bail.
Seems like this would just be a stunt then? I'm sure there are better equipped people to take this guy down.
I'd think approaching this guy would be a bad idea, couldn't he have his guns on him? If he's got internet access he'll know about this and it might just push him further over the edge. It's all fun and games when Dog is running his mouth until somebody gets shot because they escalated the situation by bringing it to the world stage.
Seems like this would just be a stunt then? I'm sure there are better equipped people to take this guy down.
I'd think approaching this guy would be a bad idea, couldn't he have his guns on him? If he's got internet access he'll know about this and it might just push him further over the edge. It's all fun and games when Dog is running his mouth until somebody gets shot because they escalated the situation by bringing it to the world stage.
Although he's got his TV show now, Dog is a real bounty hunter and was one before the show started. He's dealt with high risk bounties before, plenty of which have been likely to have been armed. I don't think he'd go into a situation if he thought it was too dangerous for himself or his crew (several of which are family members of his).
trexmeyer wrote: And just like that America got a little bit stranger.
Are the U.S.A. trying to hit on Japan's turf? That was a fairly nice try, but Japan is a freaking master at the art of being strange. The U.S. just will not be able to hold the distance.
I'm not familiar with bounty hunters, but does every fugitive carry a reward if they are apprehended?
I'm not sure how it works in this particular situation, but most bounty hunters work with a bail bondsman.
Though in this situation half of the $10,000 bounty has supposedly been put forward by the company that makes Fleshlights, for some reason.
I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but either way that's pretty funny.
No. She works with them allot apparently, doing allot of publicity etc with them. Give them some cheap publicity, and they have an interest in this given that she is now unable to work for them at the moment, and more importantly she is a colleague and possibly a friend of the people who work there.
The only fist on fist he would be doing with him is spraying a fist full of tazer or bear mace etc on him. In a 1 on 1 fist fight it would be suicide, but he wont go that route.
Sidebar though, Dog is crazy himself. Fun to watch crazy but crazy none the less.
I'm not familiar with bounty hunters, but does every fugitive carry a reward if they are apprehended?
I'm not sure how it works in this particular situation, but most bounty hunters work with a bail bondsman.
Though in this situation half of the $10,000 bounty has supposedly been put forward by the company that makes Fleshlights, for some reason.
I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but either way that's pretty funny.
No. She works with them allot apparently, doing allot of publicity etc with them. Give them some cheap publicity, and they have an interest in this given that she is now unable to work for them at the moment, and more importantly she is a colleague and possibly a friend of the people who work there.
It makes sense that they would want to help then. It's still somewhat humorous.
Seems like this would just be a stunt then? I'm sure there are better equipped people to take this guy down.
I'd think approaching this guy would be a bad idea, couldn't he have his guns on him? If he's got internet access he'll know about this and it might just push him further over the edge. It's all fun and games when Dog is running his mouth until somebody gets shot because they escalated the situation by bringing it to the world stage.
Although he's got his TV show now, Dog is a real bounty hunter and was one before the show started. He's dealt with high risk bounties before, plenty of which have been likely to have been armed. I don't think he'd go into a situation if he thought it was too dangerous for himself or his crew (several of which are family members of his).
Yeah, if you watch the show enough, which is admittedly on the cheesy side (my wife is a big fan so I've seen alot), you do come to realize these guys figured out the Bounty Hunter game way before they became celebrities. This "War Machine" guy is a trained MMA fighter, not a trained criminal.
I'm sure she's quite capable of covering her own bills.
There are plenty of women in worse situations that could use that money. Donate to a woman's shelter instead.
It's possible she doesn't have health insurance, especially if her primary income comes from freelance work. Quite a few entertainment industry jobs are like that, even outside of the pr0n industry.
Hordini wrote: That's true, depending on the insurance and what kind of treatment she needs. When they catch MMA boy, hopefully they can make him pay for it.
If I had to guess, he probably doesn't have much money either.
The title made me think it was some kind of awesome Stephen King's Dark Tower reboot with Marvel's War Machine being pursued, a bit like the new era League of Extraordinary Gentlemen updates you find.
I'm sure she's quite capable of covering her own bills.
There are plenty of women in worse situations that could use that money. Donate to a woman's shelter instead.
She's a celebrity, of sorts. I'm sure there are avenues for her to get it paid or as stated by others it might well come out of Mr MMA's monies. She's not going to be left twisting in the wind.
Seems like this would just be a stunt then? I'm sure there are better equipped people to take this guy down.
I'd think approaching this guy would be a bad idea, couldn't he have his guns on him? If he's got internet access he'll know about this and it might just push him further over the edge. It's all fun and games when Dog is running his mouth until somebody gets shot because they escalated the situation by bringing it to the world stage.
Good. I hope he takes a long walk off a short cliff
TheMeanDM wrote: It is a sad story and what's sadder still is that it takes some "celebrity" to have it done to them to raise awareness about it.
How many thousands of nameless women (and even some guys) are abused every day and nobody hears about it.
How about we report on THEM instead.
I think most people are aware of domestic violence, its just that these are minor celebrities as you have stated and therefore made national media on the simple basis that some people know who one or the other is. If you'd like to help out, I'd recommend contributing to your local women's shelter, as well. These really are invaluable services setup to help everyday, non-rich, non-celebrity women in these exact type of situations.
Medium of Death wrote:I'm not sure why anybody would give money to that?
I'm sure she's quite capable of covering her own bills.
There are plenty of women in worse situations that could use that money. Donate to a woman's shelter instead.
There are some so obsessed with "adult entertainment" stars that they actually go to conventions, follow them on Twitter and Facebook, etc and the most obsessed of those would gladly give money to her in this scenario.
It's not that unlike these guys donating money to watch gals play video games on TwitchTv...
jasper76 wrote:I'm not disagreeing with you, but media is reporting that she is broke.
Whether that means "Mike Tyson-broke", or "never had much money to begin with broke" I don't know.
Google search is suggesting her net worth is around $500,000. She is fairly popular, but has only been involved in the business for a couple of years according to Wikipedia. She's only 23. Talk about an insane life to have lived already. Damn.
Easy E wrote:This entire story is horrifying.
What makes it worse is that it happens all too often to people who never get any media attention.
Yep and for some reason it's the exact same scenario. The women stays with the abuser until he finally snaps and kills her or beats her half to death.
It's probably worth noting that this is probably a good lesson for young ladies who think its desireable to date a person who chooses attempting to beat another person unconscious as a hobby or career, generalizations be damned.
jasper76 wrote: It's probably worth noting that this is probably a good lesson for young ladies who think its desireable to date a person who chooses attempting to beat another person unconscious as a hobby or career, generalizations be damned.
I'm not sure that has much to do with anything. I'm in no way involved in a violent profession, and I could still quite easily beat my girlfriend half to death if I ever flipped. A persons career has little to do with the fact that men tend to be bigger and stronger than their partners.
jasper76 wrote: It's probably worth noting that this is probably a good lesson for young ladies who think its desireable to date a person who chooses attempting to beat another person unconscious as a hobby or career, generalizations be damned.
I'm not sure that has much to do with anything. I'm in no way involved in a violent profession, and I could still quite easily beat my girlfriend half to death if I ever flipped. A persons career has little to do with the fact that men tend to be bigger and stronger than their partners.
One should marry your equal. I'm good with a chainsaw. She can run me over with a van. True love.
jasper76 wrote: It's probably worth noting that this is probably a good lesson for young ladies who think its desireable to date a person who chooses attempting to beat another person unconscious as a hobby or career, generalizations be damned.
I'm not sure that has much to do with anything. I'm in no way involved in a violent profession, and I could still quite easily beat my girlfriend half to death if I ever flipped. A persons career has little to do with the fact that men tend to be bigger and stronger than their partners.
One should marry your equal. I'm good with a chainsaw. She can run me over with a van. True love.
Don't worry man. We all know who's in charge in your house, and it's not a human
Ketara wrote: I'm in no way involved in a violent profession, and I could still quite easily beat my girlfriend half to death if I ever flipped. A persons career has little to do with the fact that men tend to be bigger and stronger than their partners.
I'd guess that if violence is your hobby or career, there's a better chance of violence being part of your domestic equation.
Its not like domestic violence rap-sheets are uncommon for boxers...I'd imagine same pattern may be true for competitors in MMA sports.
jasper76 wrote: It's probably worth noting that this is probably a good lesson for young ladies who think its desireable to date a person who chooses attempting to beat another person unconscious as a hobby or career, generalizations be damned.
I'm not sure that has much to do with anything. I'm in no way involved in a violent profession, and I could still quite easily beat my girlfriend half to death if I ever flipped. A persons career has little to do with the fact that men tend to be bigger and stronger than their partners.
But if your career does involve violence, and has a culture of violence built in, it seems to bring out the violent tendencies latent in people. I think there is some validity to what jasper76 was saying. If your significant other bashes in heads for a living there is an increased chance that your head will get bashed in at some point. I am absolutely not saying that Ms. Mack is responsible for what happened to her, but acknowledging that some occupations carry that risk should be done.
jasper76 wrote: It's probably worth noting that this is probably a good lesson for young ladies who think its desireable to date a person who chooses attempting to beat another person unconscious as a hobby or career, generalizations be damned.
I'm not sure that has much to do with anything. I'm in no way involved in a violent profession, and I could still quite easily beat my girlfriend half to death if I ever flipped. A persons career has little to do with the fact that men tend to be bigger and stronger than their partners.
One should marry your equal. I'm good with a chainsaw. She can run me over with a van. True love.
Don't worry man. We all know who's in charge in your house, and it's not a human
We have a multilevel shelf in the launrdy room where the young wiener dog's bed is. He's a jumper and has taken to using it as a condo. You'll walk in and like a fat cat he'll be laying halfway up it, just staring at you. .
PrehistoricUFO wrote: War Machine's business is to close the gap and damage people, he will ensure it becomes a fist fight.
They will definitely need high-end equipment for this mark. I'm anxious to see how it turns out (assuming it isn't just a PR stunt by Dog).
If they get the drop on him, and they will, he won't have a chance to make it a fist fight. And even if it does he won't land many punches till he gets taser'd. One zap and he's done for.
MMA fighting is still staged in a ring and doesn't completely translate well to running from someone who is well equipped and is actively chasing you. Dog has got the homefield advantage 100%.
PrehistoricUFO wrote: War Machine's business is to close the gap and damage people, he will ensure it becomes a fist fight.
They will definitely need high-end equipment for this mark. I'm anxious to see how it turns out (assuming it isn't just a PR stunt by Dog).
If they get the drop on him, and they will, he won't have a chance to make it a fist fight. And even if it does he won't land many punches till he gets taser'd. One zap and he's done for.
MMA fighting is still staged in a ring and doesn't completely translate well to running from someone who is well equipped and is actively chasing you. Dog has got the homefield advantage 100%.
But being a professional MMA fighter makes you invincible! They will have to nuke him from orbit, and even then his superior skills and fitness may keep him alive.
Sounds like she had the living hell beat out of her and is going to require a lot of corrective surgery and recovery time. I have a feeling she'll likely end up a bit disfigured from it.
I hope that catch that douchebag as there's lot of dudes in prison who'd like to see just how tough he is outside the ring. As for Dog, the guy makes/made a living tracking down criminals who skipped bail if he can find him great but I don't think he's any special consideration that makes him any more scary then having the police after you. I hope he gets caught soon and without any further incidents causing harm to anyone else.
1 The excessive tats
2 super douche boyfriend
3 porn
The girl clearly has some serious daddy/self-esteem issues going on, all that's missing in the article is drugs and alcohol and it hits all the key points on the roadmap to disaster. Not placing any blame as the boyfriend is clearly a whack job, but I hope that as terrible as this experience is that in end it helps provide a turning point that she can use to get things turned around in her life and hopefully get off that path.
I worked at a women's rehab clinic and in many, many cases substance abuse, violence, and chaotic life choices all went hand in hand. This stuff is far too common but we tend not to hear much about it until it involves a highly publicized case. I hope she not only recovers from her injuries but also has access to the help she'll need in getting her life back together, there's a lot of mental wounds created in an incident like this that can be much greater then the injuries inflicted on the body itself.
Ketara wrote: I'm in no way involved in a violent profession, and I could still quite easily beat my girlfriend half to death if I ever flipped. A persons career has little to do with the fact that men tend to be bigger and stronger than their partners.
I'd guess that if violence is your hobby or career, there's a better chance of violence being part of your domestic equation.
Its not like domestic violence rap-sheets are uncommon for boxers...I'd imagine same pattern may be true for competitors in MMA sports.
So maybe people should be afraid to date military and police as well then?
FWIW, I wouldn't be surprised if there were higher rates of domestic violence among military and law enforcement compared to the general population, because perpetrating violence and being witness to violence over time has a well-recorded desensitizing effect on humans.
Ketara wrote: I'm in no way involved in a violent profession, and I could still quite easily beat my girlfriend half to death if I ever flipped. A persons career has little to do with the fact that men tend to be bigger and stronger than their partners.
I'd guess that if violence is your hobby or career, there's a better chance of violence being part of your domestic equation.
Its not like domestic violence rap-sheets are uncommon for boxers...I'd imagine same pattern may be true for competitors in MMA sports.
So maybe people should be afraid to date military and police as well then?
The data is a little old (decade or so), but this is interesting:
Two studies have found that at least 40% of police officer families experience domestic violence, (1, 2) in contrast to 10% of families in the general population.(3) A third study of older and more experienced officers found a rate of 24% (4), indicating that domestic violence is 2-4 times more common among police families than American families in general. A police department that has domestic violence offenders among its ranks will not effectively serve and protect victims in the community.5, 6, 7, 8 Moreover, when officers know of domestic violence committed by their colleagues and seek to protect them by covering it up, they expose the department to civil liability.7
If someone has more recent studies to provide that would be great.
Still, it seems that research into the matter indicates that if you operate in a violent profession there is a statistically significant increase in the odds that you will inflict violence in the home.
stanman wrote: The girl clearly has some serious daddy/self-esteem issues going on, all that's missing in the article is drugs and alcohol and it hits all the key points on the roadmap to disaster.
stanman wrote: The girl clearly has some serious daddy/self-esteem issues going on, all that's missing in the article is drugs and alcohol and it hits all the key points on the roadmap to disaster.
Stay classy.
Seriously. My dakkadakka bingo card is getting full way too quickly lately.
Ketara wrote: I'm in no way involved in a violent profession, and I could still quite easily beat my girlfriend half to death if I ever flipped. A persons career has little to do with the fact that men tend to be bigger and stronger than their partners.
I'd guess that if violence is your hobby or career, there's a better chance of violence being part of your domestic equation.
Its not like domestic violence rap-sheets are uncommon for boxers...I'd imagine same pattern may be true for competitors in MMA sports.
Maybe?
So maybe people should be afraid to date military and police as well then?
Intimate partner violence (IPV) is a significant problem in
military populations. In a review of the literature, Marshall et
al. (2005) indicate that studies using military samples not
selected on the basis of psychopathology report annual IPV
prevalence rates that are up to 3 times higher than prevalence
rates typically reported in representative studies of the general
population. This review also indicated that in military samples, IPV has been associated with increased injuries, somatic
symptoms, musculoskeletal problems, cardiovascular problems, depression, and anxiety among abused partners, and
behavior problems, poorer academic performance and social
competence, and increased aggression and hostility among
exposed children. IPV and other family problems also may
contribute to increased healthcare utilization (Meis et al.2010)
and compromised job safety and performance (Raschmann et
al.1990).
stanman wrote: The girl clearly has some serious daddy/self-esteem issues going on, all that's missing in the article is drugs and alcohol and it hits all the key points on the roadmap to disaster.
Stay classy.
We're going to just sit here and pretend that pornstars that remain in relationships with abusive men after the first assault (let alone several more) are one hundred percent mentally stable?
stanman wrote: The girl clearly has some serious daddy/self-esteem issues going on, all that's missing in the article is drugs and alcohol and it hits all the key points on the roadmap to disaster.
Stay classy.
We're going to just sit here and pretend that pornstars that remain in relationships with abusive men after the first assault (let alone several more) are one hundred percent mentally stable?
So, specifically, only pornstars that remain in abusive relationships are mentally unstable, and anyone else who is in an abusive relationship is perfectly normal? That is your contention?
stanman wrote: The girl clearly has some serious daddy/self-esteem issues going on, all that's missing in the article is drugs and alcohol and it hits all the key points on the roadmap to disaster.
Stay classy.
We're going to just sit here and pretend that pornstars that remain in relationships with abusive men after the first assault (let alone several more) are one hundred percent mentally stable?
So, specifically, only pornstars that remain in abusive relationships are mentally unstable, and anyone else who is in an abusive relationship is perfectly normal? That is your contention?
Did you take courses on how to twist statements or does that ability come naturally?
Edit: The mental and emotional problems of many "adult entertainment" stars are well known, or at least they should be. It's certainly higher than the average population. I'm sure some truly enjoy their line of work and don't give a feth, but pretending there aren't unstable people in that line of work is absolutely asinine.
Ouze wrote: I know several women that have stayed in abusive relationships for several beatings over time, no porn career needed.
Apparently I missed the memo that today is disingenuous posting day. Thread should probably be locked at this point because it's going to go downhill fast.
PrehistoricUFO wrote: War Machine's business is to close the gap and damage people, he will ensure it becomes a fist fight.
They will definitely need high-end equipment for this mark. I'm anxious to see how it turns out (assuming it isn't just a PR stunt by Dog).
His job is to close the gap and use his fists to damage other guys who are using their fists.
He's not trained to close the gap against dudes armed with tech that can drop a lion with the push of a button.
Martial arts is a useful tool to have, but even the strongest hand-to-hand fighters are no match against someone armed with a weapon who has even a modicum of training on how to use it.
Ahtman wrote: But being a professional MMA fighter makes you invincible! They will have to nuke him from orbit, and even then his superior skills and fitness may keep him alive.
Pretty much, there seems to be some logic in this thread that MMA fighters are muscly and good at fighting and therefore they will beat up all who dare oppose them.
Except the reality is that while strange things happen sometimes, the advantage in any encounter is with the guy who is turning up prepared and with gear and a bunch of mates, while the guy on the crapper who just heard three dudes kick down the door of his motel room is at a massive disadvantage, no matter how muscly he is.
Hordini wrote: So maybe people should be afraid to date military and police as well then?
As already noted, rates of domestic violence are extremely high in the military.
The point is not to make a moral judgement about MMA fighters or soldiers or anyone else, but just to accept the reality of the situation and adjust as you need to. In this case it means being aware that those jobs train a violent response in to people, as well as coming with a large amount of stress that doesn’t exist in other jobs. This means spouses need to be a little more alert to possible warning signs that in other jobs.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
trexmeyer wrote: We're going to just sit here and pretend that pornstars that remain in relationships with abusive men after the first assault (let alone several more) are one hundred percent mentally stable?
Exactly why many women stay in relationships after being assaulted is complex and has been extensively studied, with many possible reasons offered, none of which are because the women are mentally unstable… for the simple reason that most women who stay are mentally stable.
So just please... stop. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
Hordini wrote: So maybe people should be afraid to date military and police as well then?
As already noted, rates of domestic violence are extremely high in the military.
The point is not to make a moral judgement about MMA fighters or soldiers or anyone else, but just to accept the reality of the situation and adjust as you need to. In this case it means being aware that those jobs train a violent response in to people, as well as coming with a large amount of stress that doesn’t exist in other jobs. This means spouses need to be a little more alert to possible warning signs that in other jobs.
Unfortunately, I'm well aware that domestic violence rates are higher in the police and military communities. I was more trying to play a bit of devil's advocate with the idea that a woman should be scared of or "should know better" than to date an MMA fighter or something of the sort.
I agree with you though - a bit of awareness and alertness to warning signs would be in order.
Hordini wrote: I agree with you though - a bit of awareness and alertness to warning signs would be in order.
Cool. I do agree that comments about girls 'knowing the risks' or whatever when dating MMA fighters aren't useful, because most MMA fighters aren't like that, and trying to make a blanket statement to that effect will probably do more harm than good. I just wanted to point out that like soldiers and some other professions, a greater than average number probably are, and without judging any individual in the profession, it does mean women need to be a little more conscious of warning signs.
Though the sad reality is that women need to be very aware of those warning signs no matter what their spouses do, because domestic violence is shockingly common.
[Edit= removing all of the stuff I agree with]
*snip*
[/edit]
Exactly why many women stay in relationships after being assaulted is complex and has been extensively studied, with many possible reasons offered, none of which are because the women are mentally unstable… for the simple reason that most women who stay are mentally stable.
So just please... stop. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
I absolutely disagree with your use of an absolute here. You say "none" which is incorrect. Also, studies have shown that while the reasons may be many, people who choose to stay in such relationships are usually suffering from being at the extremes of the self esteem scale.
(Too low self esteem = the powerless mentality of they deserve such or can't do better)
and
(Too high self esteem = the god/arrogance complex of I can fix him/her or others aren't able to understand him/her like I do.).
Additionally, many who choose to stay in abusive relationships suffer from denial that is extreme enough that it prevents them from seeing/dealing with the reality of their situation.
Finally, individuals who constantly choose to enter into or to stay in abusive relationships generally require "counseling" in order to overcome/break the cycle of their behavior.
To sum up:
Individuals who are 100% mentally stable generally don't stay in abusive/life-endangering situations.
100% mentally stable people generally don't require psychological counseling in order to stop self-destructive behaviour.
*Please to note that mental instability does not automatically refer to mental illnesses that are physiological in nature. It can refer to psychological/emotional based problems that are enviromentally induced.
1) Mentally unstable is in no way a medical term. It is a pejorative term people use for people with mental health problems (Including emotional and psychological problems). It is unhelpful, inaccurate and adds to the problem as the abused are made to feel more at fault. Your using "mentally unstable" as a euphemism for weak.
2) Of course many people need help to escape and recover from abuse. Abusers are manipulative and controlling. They gain control over their victims (This goes for domestic violence, pedophiles, bullies and other types of abusers) and braking this control is hard. They brake down peoples will and self esteem slowly and carefully. People can go in to relationships perfectly happy, healthy people and be slowly broken down. The control and manipulation is the gap between being a violent/aggressive dick and being an abuser.
I suggest doing some research in to abuse and abusive relationships. The idea that "mentally stable generally don't stay in abusive situations" is one of the damaging things that perpetuates abuse. People hear this false idea again and again and don't leave telling themselves "I'm fine. I'm not like that. I can leave when I want. If I was it would be my fault. I'm strong, so it can't be abuse, I can leave when I want. If I'm not strong it is my fault so I can't put that on them and must stay". It's like an addict saying "I'm not addicted. I can stop when I want". Abuse is a complex matter and not a case of someone being "Mentally Unstable". It is a matter of manipulation, societal pressures, fear, and other issues. Yes, some people, due to past abuse (often in childhood), are more likely to enter an abusive relationships, partly because they are not aware of the warning signs, but anyone is at risk. The control and manipulation are slowly introduced and ramped up. The risk for people with childhood abuse or other issues is they do not notice the less subtle people, for want of a better phrase, less skilled abusers.
Steve steveson wrote: 1) Mentally unstable is in no way a medical term. It is a pejorative term people use for people with mental health problems (Including emotional and psychological problems). It is unhelpful, inaccurate and adds to the problem as the abused are made to feel more at fault. Your using "mentally unstable" as a euphemism for weak.
2) Of course many people need help to escape and recover from abuse. Abusers are manipulative and controlling. They gain control over their victims (This goes for domestic violence, pedophiles, bullies and other types of abusers) and braking this control is hard. They brake down peoples will and self esteem slowly and carefully. People can go in to relationships perfectly happy, healthy people and be slowly broken down. The control and manipulation is the gap between being a violent/aggressive dick and being an abuser.
I suggest doing some research in to abuse and abusive relationships. The idea that "mentally stable generally don't stay in abusive situations" is one of the damaging things that perpetuates abuse. People hear this false idea again and again and don't leave telling themselves "I'm fine. I'm not like that. I can leave when I want. If I was it would be my fault. I'm strong, so it can't be abuse, I can leave when I want. If I'm not strong it is my fault so I can't put that on them and must stay". It's like an addict saying "I'm not addicted. I can stop when I want". Abuse is a complex matter and not a case of someone being "Mentally Unstable". It is a matter of manipulation, societal pressures, fear, and other issues. Yes, some people, due to past abuse (often in childhood), are more likely to enter an abusive relationships, partly because they are not aware of the warning signs, but anyone is at risk. The control and manipulation are slowly introduced and ramped up. The risk for people with childhood abuse or other issues is they do not notice the less subtle people, for want of a better phrase, less skilled abusers.
1) Take another look at my post. I merely clarified that the term was not descriptive of a specific condition bit was mote "general" in that it is often used to describe various mental issues.
Also, I never tried to claim that it was any form of official terminology. Why?
Because obsessing on how wrong it is to use "general use" terms like "unstable/instability" is usually off putting. It makes one come across as attempting to assume the mantle of authority in an environment where verification of credentials is difficult.
As to the weakness comment. If an individual has an emotional or mental issue that leads to flawed decision making or perceptions then I have no problem in calling a flaw a flaw.
2)Except that we are talking about adults who choose to knowingly enter and/or knowingly stay in abusive relationships rather than children stuck with an abusive family member or classmate.
Really your analogy is just so wrong here that it boggles the mind.
In the case of children, when they are forced into an abusive situation it is without any choice in the matter. This is because they are not allowed to legally be in control of their lives. Same reason why they receive extra protections against abuse.
Spouse/partner abusive relationships often begin with the victim knowingly making the choice to enter into and/or stay with an abuser. Also, the victims are of an age where they should be developed enough to choose to get away from an abuser.
Point being, adults are supposed to be assertive enough to be able to tell the potential abusers "No" and if the abuser persists then take steps to remove themselves from the danger such as "Calling the police or leaving".
Any individual that is an adult but not able to assert themselves in self defense will likely have many issues and will need help.
3) Yes! I agree, that people who constantly return to abusive relationships have much in common with addicts. If you knew as much about the subject as you try to claim you would have noted that such was the direction I was going.
Btw, going off half cocked and (somewhat rudely)suggesting that someone go and research(read as-educate themselves) the topic is not conducive to good communication. It makes you come across as trying to assume and use the mantle of authority as a tool to silence someone who merely has a different opinion.
As to the term being the overwhelming reason as to why people stay in abusive relationships, "as you imply". I not only disagree, I feel that you are being incredibly contradictory as to your addiction analogy.
First thing an addict has to do in order to get help is to admit that they have a problem. That they are making bad decisions that they can not seem to stop themselves from making. When they admit such, they also have to admit that they have a problem(flaw).
If an addict tries to stop using without being able to admit these problems then their chances for recovery are almost zero. Basically, they have to realize, acknowledge and admit to the destabilizing influence of their addiction.
In this instance, the term mentally unstable is no worse or more pejorative than the addict having to admit that they are, indeed, an addict.
Now back your last part about those in abusive relationships. You are completely failing to recognize that a large number of the victims in these relationships have a pattern of seeking out such relationships and in more than a few cases will try to induce the abuse if the other person fails to become the abuser.
Really, the focus should be on getting treatment and help for the victims and the abusers. This is because both victim and abuser will often try to continue the cycle unless they receive treatment/counselling.
1) Take another look at my post. I merely clarified that the term was not descriptive of a specific condition bit was mote "general" in that it is often used to describe various mental issues.
Also, I never tried to claim that it was any form of official terminology. Why?
Because obsessing on how wrong it is to use "general use" terms like "unstable/instability" is usually off putting. It makes one come across as attempting to assume the mantle of authority in an environment where verification of credentials is difficult.
As to the weakness comment. If an individual has an emotional or mental issue that leads to flawed decision making or perceptions then I have no problem in calling a flaw a flaw.
The term "Mentally unstable" is pejorative and inappropriate. As inappropriate as using the term "slowed" or "slow" or "cripple". Thats not about assuming a mantle of authority, but disagreeing with an inappropriate and insulting term. It's not about "official terminology" but about applying inappropriate and incorrect labels to people that lessen them and place blame on them when they are wrong.
2)Except that we are talking about adults who choose to knowingly enter and/or knowingly stay in abusive relationships rather than children stuck with an abusive family member or classmate.
Really your analogy is just so wrong here that it boggles the mind.
In the case of children, when they are forced into an abusive situation it is without any choice in the matter. This is because they are not allowed to legally be in control of their lives. Same reason why they receive extra protections against abuse.
Spouse/partner abusive relationships often begin with the victim knowingly making the choice to enter into and/or stay with an abuser. Also, the victims are of an age where they should be developed enough to choose to get away from an abuser.
Point being, adults are supposed to be assertive enough to be able to tell the potential abusers "No" and if the abuser persists then take steps to remove themselves from the danger such as "Calling the police or leaving".
Any individual that is an adult but not able to assert themselves in self defense will likely have many issues and will need help.
Seriously, it is not that simple. Most abused people DO leave abusive relationships, once they realize they are abusive. You don't seem to understand the power abusers have over their victims. They often don't feel they can leave. Many issues mean they feel powerless and stay, from control, fear, housing, money, whatever. This is NOT the same as being weak or "mentally unstable".
3) Yes! I agree, that people who constantly return to abusive relationships have much in common with addicts. If you knew as much about the subject as you try to claim you would have noted that such was the direction I was going.
Btw, going off half cocked and (somewhat rudely)suggesting that someone go and research(read as-educate themselves) the topic is not conducive to good communication. It makes you come across as trying to assume and use the mantle of authority as a tool to silence someone who merely has a different opinion.
I suggested you do some research as your reasoning and understanding is so flawed. That people who are abused have mental and personality problems. The abuse may result in mental health issues, but that is not the same as assuming people entering or in abusive relationships are "mentally unstable". Your use of pejorative terms and "just walk away" attitude (assuming that people knowingly chose to stay in abusive relationships) makes me think you don't understand the issues.
As to the term being the overwhelming reason as to why people stay in abusive relationships, "as you imply". I not only disagree, I feel that you are being incredibly contradictory as to your addiction analogy.
First thing an addict has to do in order to get help is to admit that they have a problem. That they are making bad decisions that they can not seem to stop themselves from making. When they admit such, they also have to admit that they have a problem(flaw).
If an addict tries to stop using without being able to admit these problems then their chances for recovery are almost zero. Basically, they have to realize, acknowledge and admit to the destabilizing influence of their addiction.
In this instance, the term mentally unstable is no worse or more pejorative than the addict having to admit that they are, indeed, an addict.
The word "addict" is an understood, medical term for a specific issue. However, calling it a flaw is not appropriate. An illness is a much more appropriate term.
"Mentally unstable" is a pejorative term with no clear definition, use to to imply general mental health problems and an unstable personality. It is just as pejorative as calling someone "Crazy" or "Cripple" or similar words.
We are back to the discussion had in the thread about Robin Williams. Mental health, emotional and any non physical problems problems are seen as "being a weak person" and a personal failing rather than an illness that needs to be dealt with, and a person who needs to be supported.
stanman wrote: The girl clearly has some serious daddy/self-esteem issues going on, all that's missing in the article is drugs and alcohol and it hits all the key points on the roadmap to disaster.
Stay classy.
Nice cherry picking skills bro.
Next time you might want to include the rest as it gives the context.
1 The excessive tats
2 super douche boyfriend
3 porn
The girl clearly has some serious daddy/self-esteem issues going on, all that's missing in the article is drugs and alcohol and it hits all the key points on the roadmap to disaster. Not placing any blame as the boyfriend is clearly a whack job, but I hope that as terrible as this experience is that in end it helps provide a turning point that she can use to get things turned around in her life and hopefully get off that path.
I worked at a women's rehab clinic and in many, many cases substance abuse, violence, and chaotic life choices all went hand in hand. This stuff is far too common but we tend not to hear much about it until it involves a highly publicized case. I hope she not only recovers from her injuries but also has access to the help she'll need in getting her life back together, there's a lot of mental wounds created in an incident like this that can be much greater then the injuries inflicted on the body itself.
trexmeyer wrote: We're going to just sit here and pretend that pornstars that remain in relationships with abusive men after the first assault (let alone several more) are one hundred percent mentally stable?
1) Take another look at my post. I merely clarified that the term was not descriptive of a specific condition bit was mote "general" in that it is often used to describe various mental issues.
Also, I never tried to claim that it was any form of official terminology. Why?
Because obsessing on how wrong it is to use "general use" terms like "unstable/instability" is usually off putting. It makes one come across as attempting to assume the mantle of authority in an environment where verification of credentials is difficult.
As to the weakness comment. If an individual has an emotional or mental issue that leads to flawed decision making or perceptions then I have no problem in calling a flaw a flaw.
The term "Mentally unstable" is pejorative and inappropriate. As inappropriate as using the term "slowed" or "slow" or "cripple". Thats not about assuming a mantle of authority, but disagreeing with an inappropriate and insulting term. It's not about "official terminology" but about applying inappropriate and incorrect labels to people that lessen them and place blame on them when they are wrong.
Ah, so you believe that Political Correctness > Correcting the health problem.
If you ever get into a position of being a part of a recovery/support group you might find that censorship tactics like being PC is often harmful to the process. The individuals need to feel free to honestly express themselves first and foremost. Teaching them the PC or correct clinical lingo is much lower on the priority list.
Also, side note about the term in question and the ones you mentioned. A better term might be outdated. Unstable was one of the earliest clinical diagnosis for mental or emotional problems. Same goes for slowed. Now slow was actually an early attempt at being PC(sensitive about public labels). Point I'm getting at is that the terms are not in and of themselves a problem but how society tends to use them. I suspect that with the way that average people use disabled as means of negative reference and limitation, it too will eventually become politically incorrect.
Ironic anecdote- Have an associate that is very PC and constantly jumps on anyone who uses the term "handicapped" but still calls the blue rectangle parking handicapped parking. He's not even aware of it and I don't point it out.
2)Except that we are talking about adults who choose to knowingly enter and/or knowingly stay in abusive relationships rather than children stuck with an abusive family member or classmate.
Really your analogy is just so wrong here that it boggles the mind.
In the case of children, when they are forced into an abusive situation it is without any choice in the matter. This is because they are not allowed to legally be in control of their lives. Same reason why they receive extra protections against abuse.
Spouse/partner abusive relationships often begin with the victim knowingly making the choice to enter into and/or stay with an abuser. Also, the victims are of an age where they should be developed enough to choose to get away from an abuser.
Point being, adults are supposed to be assertive enough to be able to tell the potential abusers "No" and if the abuser persists then take steps to remove themselves from the danger such as "Calling the police or leaving".
Any individual that is an adult but not able to assert themselves in self defense will likely have many issues and will need help.
Seriously, it is not that simple. Most abused people DO leave abusive relationships, once they realize they are abusive. You don't seem to understand the power abusers have over their victims. They often don't feel they can leave. Many issues mean they feel powerless and stay, from control, fear, housing, money, whatever. This is NOT the same as being weak or "mentally unstable".
A)Please stop putting words in my mouth. Have never said weak.
S) People can have weaknesses without being weak. Your outlook here is very >Black & White".
C) Never said most don't leave, just that many do stay or end up in a repeating cycle of abusive relationships until they get treatment / counselling. Apparently, you are unfamiliar with Battered Person Syndrome (originally Battered Woman/Wife Syndrome) and the emotional / psychological issues that both produce this phenomenon and arise from having such.
and
D) Notice how you said they feel powerless. Now who is calling them weak?
See this why they become unstable, The situation produces an emotional state where they incorrectly view themselves as powerless(weak).
3) Yes! I agree, that people who constantly return to abusive relationships have much in common with addicts. If you knew as much about the subject as you try to claim you would have noted that such was the direction I was going.
Btw, going off half cocked and (somewhat rudely)suggesting that someone go and research(read as-educate themselves) the topic is not conducive to good communication. It makes you come across as trying to assume and use the mantle of authority as a tool to silence someone who merely has a different opinion.
I suggested you do some research as your reasoning and understanding is so flawed. That people who are abused have mental and personality problems. The abuse may result in mental health issues, but that is not the same as assuming people entering or in abusive relationships are "mentally unstable". Your use of pejorative terms and "just walk away" attitude (assuming that people knowingly chose to stay in abusive relationships) makes me think you don't understand the issues.
I would suggest that my reasoning is less flawed and more from practical experience, while yours is more of a purely text book/ internet google nature.
Really, it is a matter of cause and effect that a decision tree would easily explain.
1)Person is in relationship and there are warning signs. They either choose:
A) To assert themselves and tell their partner to knock it off
or
B) Stay quiet/ignore the warnings to try and keep a peaceful relationship
2) If person Chose A) and partner continues abuse then they can either:
A) Demand that they both get counselling
B). Leave and get counselling
C) Both A) & B)
D) Just leave.
or
E) Choose to stay and try and live with/ignore the problem.
3)If the person chose either 1)B) or 2)E) then they are making a conscious choice to remain in said abuse relationship when they knew there was a problem. Such choices would be viewed as poor ones that denote a lack of assertiveness(passive- enabling). People who are passive in such situations are choosing to do so from what would be clinically viewed as flawed reasoning. The reasoning is flawed because they are in an emotional state that has them either denying or justifying the abusers actions/problem.
4)If the victim / potential victim chose 1)A) and then 2) A), 2)B) or 2C) then they are being assertive and making healthy decisions. Though, they have still been through a traumatic experience and should get counselling and education on how to handle the emotional issues that are possible from experiencing such.
5) If the person chose 2)D) then they run the risk of carrying that experience into their next relationship. I cannot stress enough how important getting some form of treatment is when someone has endured abuse.
As to the term being the overwhelming reason as to why people stay in abusive relationships, "as you imply". I not only disagree, I feel that you are being incredibly contradictory as to your addiction analogy.
First thing an addict has to do in order to get help is to admit that they have a problem. That they are making bad decisions that they can not seem to stop themselves from making. When they admit such, they also have to admit that they have a problem(flaw).
If an addict tries to stop using without being able to admit these problems then their chances for recovery are almost zero. Basically, they have to realize, acknowledge and admit to the destabilizing influence of their addiction.
In this instance, the term mentally unstable is no worse or more pejorative than the addict having to admit that they are, indeed, an addict.
The word "addict" is an understood, medical term for a specific issue. However, calling it a flaw is not appropriate. An illness is a much more appropriate term.
"Mentally unstable" is a pejorative term with no clear definition, use to to imply general mental health problems and an unstable personality. It is just as pejorative as calling someone "Crazy" or "Cripple" or similar words.
We are back to the discussion had in the thread about Robin Williams. Mental health, emotional and any non physical problems problems are seen as "being a weak person" and a personal failing rather than an illness that needs to be dealt with, and a person who needs to be supported.
A0 Addict is"currently" accepted, just as handicapped and slowed "used" to be. In the future it could just as easily change. The use of the word flaw/flawed is still in use and considered valid terminology for when describing an abnormal or unhealthy decision making process.
B) Unstable has a clear definition. The mentally or emotionally descriptors of the word unstable are just terms of clarification. I will admit that the term is outdated, but again, I wouldn't interrupt a group just to point that out. As its use being pejorative, I disagree in that it is no more or less so than many current terms. It all comes down to where your priority is in the treatment process.
C) What discussion are "we" back to?
I have had no discussion with you about any such thing in that thread.
You might not have such an antagonistic attitude over this if you would leave what was said by other posters in the other thread out of our discussion.
trexmeyer wrote: We're going to just sit here and pretend that pornstars that remain in relationships with abusive men after the first assault (let alone several more) are one hundred percent mentally stable?
That was very uncalled for.
Let me guess, you're one of those people that operates under the false pretense that pornography is empowering for women and not a single woman in the business has suffered emotional trauma that led to her decision to pursue that career?
trexmeyer wrote: We're going to just sit here and pretend that pornstars that remain in relationships with abusive men after the first assault (let alone several more) are one hundred percent mentally stable?
That was very uncalled for.
Let me guess, you're one of those people that operates under the false pretense that pornography is empowering for women and not a single woman in the business has suffered emotional trauma that led to her decision to pursue that career?
You're one of those people then who think that all women in porn are forced to have sex with men? Sasha Grey might want to disagree with you.
trexmeyer wrote: We're going to just sit here and pretend that pornstars that remain in relationships with abusive men after the first assault (let alone several more) are one hundred percent mentally stable?
That was very uncalled for.
Let me guess, you're one of those people that operates under the false pretense that pornography is empowering for women and not a single woman in the business has suffered emotional trauma that led to her decision to pursue that career?
I do think that the problem with your statement, as has been pointed out multiple times even though it appears to have gone over your head (gotta work on those reflexes), is that you are automatically implying that pornstars are more likely to be mentally unstable than the thousands of people who make the same choice who are employed in many different occupations. There are abused spouses in all manners of employment, many in fields with a gak-ton of authority and respect. There are abused police officers, nurses, doctors, soldiers, clergy, managers, CEOs and many others out there who are victims of partner abuse. You are basically taking the blame away from the perpetrator and laying it on the victim. It might not be your intention, but that is what your message is saying.
The other problem with your statement is that you are also pointing out the fact that she remained in the relationship as a sign that she is mentally unstable. Which also places the blame on the wrong person. A hallmark of intimate partner abuse is that the abuser doesn't just physically abuse the partner, but they physically and psychologically control the person. They are usually expert manipulators who manage to exploit pre-existing insecurities and are often able to create new ones in order to have full control over that person. They don't leave because they enjoy being beaten or because they are to mentally unstable to realize "gee, I should leave the person that abuses me", they don't leave because they have been manipulated to the extend that they truly believe that they don't have any options.
It's not like they people go out on a first date and the guy punches her in the face going "you are mine, I shall beat you and you will like it" and the woman goes "gee, that doesn't seem right. But I'm in porn so that has caused me to become to unstable to leave, I guess I will let him beat me" before inviting him in for punch.
So again, while it may not be your intention, your statement reads very much like you are taking at least part of the blame and putting it on the woman who must be unstable because of a choice she made in her career that you don't agree with and made a choice that many abused partners make due to being manipulated by their abuses.
When a person maliciously beats another person over the span of multiple hours, cuts her with a knife, tries to rape her, beats her again and again then it is 100% that persons fault, irregardless of the victims mental status, job, or previous decisions.
Easy E wrote: This thread is full of great Dakka Dakka victim blaming. It is almost a poster chld for what an OT thread should look like.
Please explain in great detail how suggesting Christy Mack might have self esteem and other emotional issues is equivalent to saying she is responsible for this? I can't wait to hear this.
Should she have stayed in that relationship after the first assault? Obviously not.
Does that mean this beating is her fault? Hell no and it's insulting that anyone would even suggest that.
This is what happens in every thread. Something bad happens. Someone suggests a reason why it happened. Someone pulls the victim blaming card. Everyone wrings their little hands and sobs loudly while expressing in no uncertain terms how good they are for not criticizing the victim in anyway because obviously everyone alive is a saint.
Easy E wrote: This thread is full of great Dakka Dakka victim blaming. It is almost a poster chld for what an OT thread should look like.
Please explain in great detail how suggesting Christy Mack might have self esteem and other emotional issues is equivalent to saying she is responsible for this? I can't wait to hear this.
Should she have stayed in that relationship after the first assault? Obviously not.
Does that mean this beating is her fault? Hell no and it's insulting that anyone would even suggest that.
This is what happens in every thread. Something bad happens. Someone suggests a reason why it happened. Someone pulls the victim blaming card. Everyone wrings their little hands and sobs loudly while expressing in no uncertain terms how good they are for not criticizing the victim in anyway because obviously everyone alive is a saint.
If her being a porn star or going back to him doesn't make her responsible for what happened to her, then why bring it up as a sign of potential mental instability.
You know, if it is 100% a non-factor.
Like I said: It might not be what you mean to say, but it is the message that comes across.
stanman wrote: Sounds like she had the living hell beat out of her and is going to require a lot of corrective surgery and recovery time. I have a feeling she'll likely end up a bit disfigured from it.
I hope that catch that douchebag as there's lot of dudes in prison who'd like to see just how tough he is outside the ring. As for Dog, the guy makes/made a living tracking down criminals who skipped bail if he can find him great but I don't think he's any special consideration that makes him any more scary then having the police after you. I hope he gets caught soon and without any further incidents causing harm to anyone else.
1 The excessive tats
2 super douche boyfriend
3 porn
The girl clearly has some serious daddy/self-esteem issues going on, all that's missing in the article is drugs and alcohol and it hits all the key points on the roadmap to disaster. Not placing any blame as the boyfriend is clearly a whack job, but I hope that as terrible as this experience is that in end it helps provide a turning point that she can use to get things turned around in her life and hopefully get off that path.
I worked at a women's rehab clinic and in many, many cases substance abuse, violence, and chaotic life choices all went hand in hand. This stuff is far too common but we tend not to hear much about it until it involves a highly publicized case. I hope she not only recovers from her injuries but also has access to the help she'll need in getting her life back together, there's a lot of mental wounds created in an incident like this that can be much greater then the injuries inflicted on the body itself.
This is the post that started it.
Somehow the following:
The girl clearly has some serious daddy/self-esteem issues going on, all that's missing in the article is drugs and alcohol and it hits all the key points on the roadmap to disaster. Not placing any blame as the boyfriend is clearly a whack job, but I hope that as terrible as this experience is that in end it helps provide a turning point that she can use to get things turned around in her life and hopefully get off that path.
Where is the victim blaming? It isn't there. He even stipulated that he isn't placing any blame on her. He even stated that he hopes she uses this as a turning point. Whether or not you think pornography is good, bad, whatever, how can you justify jumping down his throat with the victim blaming card?
"I'm not saying it's her fault, but she is clearly unstable because she is a pornstar and went back to him."
If you are not blaming her for it, then why bring it up as being relevant to the situation?
Again, it might not be your intent to blame her, but that is the message you are sending with that statement.
The written medium is complicated, and nuances are often lost.
Edit:
Again, just to clarify. I don't think that you believe that she had it coming or deserved it, or that you believe that what she does takes any responsibility away from her abuser. I'm just trying to explain why your message sounds that way.
Again, just to clarify. I don't think that you believe that she had it coming or deserved it, or that you believe that what she does takes any responsibility away from her abuser. I'm just trying to explain why your message sounds that way.
I'll second what d is saying here...
We *know* you enough that we're sure you didn't mean that... but, the message did sounded that way.
I didn't even bring it up. Stanman brought it up, had a mini victim blaming train run on him, and I just agreed with him and said this thread was about to turn into flamebait.
trexmeyer wrote: I didn't even bring it up. Stanman brought it up, had a mini victim blaming train run on him, and I just agreed with him and said this thread was about to turn into flamebait.
There is something about this crime and others like it that causes people to look for problems in the victims life, and to give her the Miley Cyrus sideline psych evaluation.
Everybody has problems. Everybody has issues. If you scour every domestic violence case for pychological problems on the part of the victim, you'll always find them, because everyone has psychological problems, period. Not everybody gets beaten near to death, and noone deserves it, no matter what problems they may have. Whatever issues this lady may have are basically irrelevant.
trexmeyer wrote: We're going to just sit here and pretend that pornstars that remain in relationships with abusive men after the first assault (let alone several more) are one hundred percent mentally stable?
That was very uncalled for.
Let me guess, you're one of those people that operates under the false pretense that pornography is empowering for women and not a single woman in the business has suffered emotional trauma that led to her decision to pursue that career?
How the hell did you get that bolded part from my message?
jasper76 wrote: There is something about this crime and others like it that causes people to look for problems in the victims life, and to give her the Miley Cyrus sideline psych evaluation.
Everybody has problems. Everybody has issues. If you scour every domestic violence case for pychological problems on the part of the victim, you'll always find them, because everyone has psychological problems, period. Not everybody gets beaten near to death, and noone deserves it, no matter what problems they may have. Whatever issues this lady may have are basically irrelevant.
I have no idea why it happens and it alot feels like an inbuilt psychological defense. People think, "This would never happen to me because the victim here has X, Y and Z." This helps them fee security and stability that every human being craves as a basic need.
jasper76 wrote: There is something about this crime and others like it that causes people to look for problems in the victims life, and to give her the Miley Cyrus sideline psych evaluation.
Everybody has problems. Everybody has issues. If you scour every domestic violence case for pychological problems on the part of the victim, you'll always find them, because everyone has psychological problems, period. Not everybody gets beaten near to death, and noone deserves it, no matter what problems they may have. Whatever issues this lady may have are basically irrelevant.
I have no idea why it happens and it alot feels like an inbuilt psychological defense. People think, "This would never happen to me because the victim here has X, Y and Z." This helps them fee security and stability that every human being craves as a basic need.
Like I said, I don't really know.
It would never happen to me because I'm a straight male exclusively interested in petite women so the odds of me being beaten to a pulp by one of them is extremely low. They could still shoot me, stab me, go baseball bat mode, drug me, cut off genitals, etc, though.
It would never happen to me because I'm a straight male exclusively interested in petite women so the odds of me being beaten to a pulp by one of them is extremely low. They could still shoot me, stab me, go baseball bat mode, drug me, cut off genitals, etc, though.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that "baseball bat* mode" involved beating someone.
I think what happened was horrible. As somebody with almost 20 years of martial arts experience I'd never raise a hand against a female (or anyone who was defenseless) and it's so infuriating to see anybody with training misusing their skills like that. Respect and self control are the core of the martial arts spirit, he clearly doesn't abide by those traditions and needs to be put down and have it done very, very painful fashion.
focusedfire wrote: *Please to note that mental instability does not automatically refer to mental illnesses that are physiological in nature. It can refer to psychological/emotional based problems that are enviromentally induced.
Then all you're really doing is redefining mental instability as poor decision making, in which case the argument becomes 'women who are making an objectively bad decision to stay in a relationship are women who are making at least one objectively bad decision'.
trexmeyer wrote: We're going to just sit here and pretend that pornstars that remain in relationships with abusive men after the first assault (let alone several more) are one hundred percent mentally stable?
That was very uncalled for.
Let me guess, you're one of those people that operates under the false pretense that pornography is empowering for women and not a single woman in the business has suffered emotional trauma that led to her decision to pursue that career?
You know how you said this early in the thread;
"Did you take courses on how to twist statements or does that ability come naturally?"
Maybe listen to your own snark in future.
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jasper76 wrote: There is something about this crime and others like it that causes people to look for problems in the victims life, and to give her the Miley Cyrus sideline psych evaluation.
Everybody has problems. Everybody has issues. If you scour every domestic violence case for pychological problems on the part of the victim, you'll always find them, because everyone has psychological problems, period. Not everybody gets beaten near to death, and noone deserves it, no matter what problems they may have. Whatever issues this lady may have are basically irrelevant.
paulson games wrote: As somebody with almost 20 years of martial arts experience I'd never raise a hand against a female (or anyone who was defenseless)
I understand the “not attacking someone defenseless”, but you would never raise a hand against a woman? You would refuse a match against a woman even if she was just as skilled as you are in martial arts?
I understand the “not attacking someone defenseless”, but you would never raise a hand against a woman? You would refuse a match against a woman even if she was just as skilled as you are in martial arts?
Back in highschool one of my wrestling teammates got destroyed by a woman. Granted she was nationally ranked, but he easily could have won had he not been so shy regarding touching her. The idea that a guy might be uncomfortable with hitting/grappling with a woman in a combative manner is very much understandable.
I think what paulson means is he wouldnt beat a spouse or fremale friend or a female he met that night etc etc, then continued to add he wouldn't been anyone, including woman, who cant fight back.
Just my opinion sorry for intruding and pretending to know what you meant Paulson :/
dogma wrote: No, he was just a competent, male wrestler.
There is such a big disparity between male and female wrestlers?
Um, obviously? Even at the same height, weight, and leverages an average male will have significantly more potential for strength and speed than a woman. Aside from the very rare genetic anomalies men will be stronger and quicker than woman.
paulson games wrote: As somebody with almost 20 years of martial arts experience I'd never raise a hand against a female (or anyone who was defenseless)
I understand the “not attacking someone defenseless”, but you would never raise a hand against a woman? You would refuse a match against a woman even if she was just as skilled as you are in martial arts?
There is a difference between a sparring match and beating somebody.
I have sparred with plenty of women when training students over the years, there is no hostile intent involved in sparring and it is an exercise and sport to develop skill. Upmost care and self control is used by all involved to avoid injuring their opponent regardless of if they are male or female.
"Raising a hand" consists of beating or assaulting someone with intent to inflict harm, pain, or injury on the other person, which is an entirely different scenario and one I would not resort to.
Hope 'War Machine' gets a proper sentence. This whole story has really opened my eye to how many scumbags there are on the internet, some of the sites I've been on the overall vibe has been she's a whore and deserves it, glad it hasn't been like that on here.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that a semi-famous man with a physique that will draw attention, who had no plans to flee and presumably no connections to the underworld to help protect him is going to be one of the easier kinds of people for a bounty hunter to catch, no matter how many muscles the semi-famous person has. This is because the actual hard bit is finding out where the person is, the bit where you and five of your mates grab descend on him while he's unaware and spray mace in his face is the easy bit.
Say what you want, that Dog character is a smart man who knows how to play things for the tv. Coming out of retirement to take on a guy that everyone thinks is a total ass, in a case that would have looked way harder than it probably really was is very smart.
