I took a look at my 4th ed rulebook today.

Remember when GW taught us how to paint in their rulebooks?
Remember when rulebooks cost $30?
Remember when GW recommended painting models in batches?
Remember when GW showed us how to make terrain instead of saying "RoB lel"
Remember when there was no Overwatch?
Remember when CC was good?
Remember when Rulebooks included showcases of fan and developer armies?
Remember when GW gave us free Bunker and Ruin templates we could scan and trace?
Remember when campaign running strategies were part of the Rulebook?
Remember when there was individual model XP in campaigns?
Remember when Golden Demon winning models and conversions were in the back of the rulebook?
Remember when Serpent Shield was represented by giving Wave Serpents AV14?
Remember when free templates were included with the Rulebook?
Remember when there were 10 armies?
Remember when community members were honored on the last page?
Remember when GW encouraged playing only one army?
Remember when Codex: Sisters of Battle was the most recent Codex?
Remember when the Grey Knights were in Codex: Daemonhunters?
Remember when a LRMBT cost $35?
Remember when GW did sales?
Remember when the central pic for Space Marines was a Crimson Fist?
Remember when Ordnance Barrages were a thing?
Remember when the player being shot at chose who died?

Be nostalgiac here.

Yes to all. Actually found two 3rd Edition Rulebooks for sale at my local store. Did a double take on them and browsed through the pictures. Everything was so simple then. Simpler times. 40k makes me feel old...

I remember being excited for Codex releases instead of dreading them.

$90 Cadian battleforce got you 20 guardsmen, three HW teams, a Leman Russ and two ruined buildings. Now that was a starter set.

I read though the 3.5 guard dex doctrines section recently and sighed.

Also remember when Grey Knights were fearless and so shiny you couldn't see them? lol

Remember when non Space Marine armies had a selection of special characters test were useful, varied, and flavorful?

I remember when overwatch was an order you gave a squad. It skipped it's own shooting phase and shot in your opponent's movement phase. That's back when terminators had a 3+ save on 2d6 and a lascannon had a -6 armour save mod, transports were literally a death trap, and a walker's legs had different amour than it's arms, which were different from it's body. The box set came with a cardboard square with a picture of an Ork dredd on it. Each race had a different base movement speed and you drew a different mission card than your opponent. Also, weapons like assault cannons and shuriken catapults rolled dice for the amounts of shots they could take and they could jam.

I remember when 40k was about playing the actual game. And not about whining every time gw tried to do something. I remember when I built the lists based solely on the models I had finished and did not care about the next op build only. I remember when if a unit was so broken they removed it and no one whined. I think the problems with 40k is less to do with gw and more with every one having to be a special snowflake.

I was looking through my brothers 4th edition orks codex. Remeber when they use to give advice though they were bad ones( put a tactical squad in a stormraven).

I remember that when I started playing 40k, I was younger.

Now? Now I am older.

*shakes fist at the universe*

Fireraven wrote:
I remember when 40k was about playing the actual game. And not about whining every time gw tried to do something. I remember when I built the lists based solely on the models I had finished and did not care about the next op build only. I remember when if a unit was so broken they removed it and no one whined. I think the problems with 40k is less to do with gw and more with every one having to be a special snowflake.

The good old days

Fireraven wrote:
I remember when 40k was about playing the actual game. And not about whining every time gw tried to do something. I remember when I built the lists based solely on the models I had finished and did not care about the next op build only. I remember when if a unit was so broken they removed it and no one whined. I think the problems with 40k is less to do with gw and more with every one having to be a special snowflake.

I remember when people didn't constantly whine about people discussing 40K in the 40K Discussion forum.

No Joke Kilkrazy I feel the same way.

But to the topic. I remember when Gas was 89 cents a gallon. And you could take 100 dollars to the store and buy a months worth of grocery's and not a weeks.

Petrol has hit a four year low at 125.9 pence per litre in the UK.

There were public protests back in 2007 when the price hit 100 pence per litre for the first time.

I remember when...

... there were rules for AdMech units in the starter box.

... the starter box was a balanced game.

... Space Marine models were small enough to fit in Rhinos.

... Land Raiders could carry Dreadnoughts.

... Life-eater Virus was the only counter to Space Wolf Cyclone Terminator Spam.

... Cyclone Missile Launchers had limited ammunition.

... Gauss Cannons had 72" range.

... standing next to a Necron was enough to make all your equipment stop working.

... Four different models was enough for a full codex release.

... Genestealers had eight attacks and ignored armour.

... The rulebook was two slim softcovers, one of which was just extended fluff and unit/weapon stats.

... a 25% support cap increase was a fair compensation for not being able to take a high-level commander.

... you could take a sergeant as your "warlord" (General).

Verviedi wrote:

Remember when there was no Overwatch?

I remember when there was overwatch.

They wasted space in books showing how to paint poorly and giving bad advice.

I don't miss that...

 Chumbalaya wrote:
I remember being excited for Codex releases instead of dreading them.

I hadn't realized this.....but, oh. so much, this!

I remember thinking; "I am really looking forward to what new stuff the next codex is going to add to my army".
Then, for a period of time, I thought; "I am really pensive about what the incompetent idiots at the Design Studio is going to screw us over with this time"

Now I am thinking;".....I don't care. It is much more fun for me to play X-Wing anyway."

I am not sure which attitude is worse for GW.

Oh and it was perfectly acceptable to take a vortex grenade in a 1000 point game. Also, refractor fields game you a 5++, conversion fields gave you a 4++ but really converted the energy into light and could bling those nearby, a displaced field gave you a 3++ and on a successful save it teleported you d6 inches to avoid the shot.

When they first added the psy powers it was in a huge expansion called Dark Millennium and each discipline had 8 powers I think.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh oh oh oh oh. Hand flamers, flamers and heavy flamers each had their own sized template

OP, you remember 4th Edition?!!!

How old were you when you started?!!

 PhillyT wrote:
They wasted space in books showing how to paint poorly and giving bad advice.

I don't miss that...

Oh, this. Especially the 3rd edition Space Marines codex (first one) where there's a page showing you how to paint the ugliest Ultramarines in the universe.

Remember when you had to waste your time discussing with your opponent about the categories of area terrain?

Remember when you had to roll for that god awfull target priority test?

Remember when your opponent build a melee blender death star unit, which bounced around in between your units, screwing you over the moment the first charge was declared?

Remember when skimmers (mostly Eldars) were near unkillable to the point that it makes the current Wave Serpent look like a frail old man, suffering from brittle bone disease?

Remember Fish of Fury?

Remember when CC was good? Like, it was literally just Fantasy in space, with power swords and bikes for horses. Shooting, immobile armies with lots of rapid fire/heavy weapons was a handicap in the distant future of year 40k and the armies with better CC, was ironically better equipped with better shooting weapons than shooting armies (guns with 'assault' profiles).

Remember when GW made god awfull painting suggestions? Like, the current doesn't even compare. They were literally showing the wrong colors used and explained no other techniques than drybrushing and basecoating.

Remember when 3rd and 4th edition was such a messy game, with external balance that made 6th edition power creep look like a fething balanced game of chess that GW was record low in sales, rumours about selling to Hasbro and doomsday prophecies about how GW was going bankrupt due to the absurdly bad annual report prior to 5th edition release, which famously made GW to turn to help and make War of the Ring in order to bail them out?





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Thud wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
They wasted space in books showing how to paint poorly and giving bad advice.

I don't miss that...

Oh, this. Especially the 3rd edition Space Marines codex (first one) where there's a page showing you how to paint the ugliest Ultramarines in the universe.

Also, I second this.

Remember waiting half a decade for your book to be released or some model for it?

Other than cost, pretty much everything is better about the game right now.

Some people are missing the point of 'nostalgia', lol. The whole point is that you remember the good bits and pretend the bad never happened.

Here! *hands out free rose-tinted hindsight glasses*

 Azreal13 wrote:
OP, you remember 4th Edition?!!!

How old were you when you started?!!

9 or 10ish. I remember for a year playing with my brother's models while he was at college, and not owning a codex.

Oh right, my bad!

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Some people are missing the point of 'nostalgia', lol. The whole point is that you remember the good bits and pretend the bad never happened.

Here! *hands out free rose-tinted hindsight glasses*

Ah.. I feel embarrassed then.

In retrospect, I did enjoy my Marines being bad mother fethers who took power weapons galore and hopped into to Rhinos, rushing forward and only used those pesky bolters when you weren't in assault distance. Jesus Christ, I seriously miss being able to charge out of a Rhino.
Also, I miss when I used to able to take power weapons on my sergeants, without people laughing at me. This is mostly due to the fact that I think the Power Fist, in all it's stupid and outrageous glory, is the most awesome power weapon ever. They could even almost always be justified due to the "hidden power weapon" system.

These threads make me think:
Why didn't I start earlier!!!

Verviedi wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
OP, you remember 4th Edition?!!!

How old were you when you started?!!

9 or 10ish. I remember for a year playing with my brother's models while he was at college, and not owning a codex.

Aiya, now I feel old. I started a few months before 3rd came out.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Some people are missing the point of 'nostalgia', lol. The whole point is that you remember the good bits and pretend the bad never happened.

Here! *hands out free rose-tinted hindsight glasses*

There was 4 times as many people playing w40k in my area and small shop tournaments were skiming on 40 people. I wish I could go back to those times.

Then there are fething stupid people like me who didn't see how things were ending and started playing a month or two after 6th came out. Not that I say it's all bad, but... What was I thinking.

Oh well, in a few decades I can look back and feel old too. I don't know how I feel about that, actually.

 The Wise Dane wrote:


Oh well, in a few decades I can look back and feel old too. I don't know how I feel about that, actually.

That will happen to you anyway.

I remember when Chaos was Chaos, rather then some sort of generic list that copied most of SM.

When Chaos lords could take psyker powers, when Daemon Princes were just when you had enough mutations.

When Chaos Plasma was stronger then Space Marine, but had the only instances of getting hot due to old age technology.

When we had Champions of Chaos, and if they died they could become imbued Skeleton Knights to continue their campaign of conquest.

Yeah, I read through some of those older codices.
The terrain-making parts were absolutely awesome!

I remember when the main rulebook was the same size, but the rules were simple and concise enough that about half of it was some or all of the rules for each of the armies, plus some nice photos of each.

I remember even as late as 5th, there were suggestions for playing the army. Which at least gave the impression that fellow hobbyists might have been involved in writing the book.

I remember when the fluff was interesting.

I remember Void Whales.

I remember when the GW website actually had articles about the armies, as opposed to being a £4000000 webstore.

I remember when there were stats for movement, willpower, cool, and intelligence.

 vipoid wrote:
I remember when the GW website actually had articles about the armies, as opposed to being a £4000000 webstore.

Why can't I exalt this more?

You guys sound like my grandma. Always that "things aren't what they used to be". Learn to live in the present, guys

Remember when Warhammer 40K had _______? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

 Murenius wrote:
You guys sound like my grandma. Always that "things aren't what they used to be". Learn to live in the present, guys

Never!

This could be a ridiculously long list. I remember when a Tactical Marine with a Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Frag and Krak Grenades was 33pts per model. The majority of points costs for units have decreased by about 40% since 2nd Edition and IMHO the amount of models you get on a table now for 1500-2000pts affects game play negatively if you have any sane amount of terrain on the table top. I remember when armies had customisable flavour, when missions weren't largely asinine affairs and when 'Forging a Narrative' happened as a natural consequence of more detailed game play rather than existing only as a vague concept ignored by the majority of players.

If I felt things were genuinely better with 40k/GW in general I'd be more than happy to say so but anyone who's played 40k across 3 to 5 editions will know things aren't better, they may still be relatively fun, just not as good subjectively or, indeed, objectively.

 Happyjew wrote:
Remember when Warhammer 40K had _______? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

Ha! I know that reference was going to be made, at least once. It had to happen. Now, it has been done.

Anyhow

 vipoid wrote:
I remember when the GW website actually had articles about the armies, as opposed to being a £4000000 webstore.

I sort of miss that a lot!

I do not miss the forum... which was awful.

I just remember when 40K was a ton more fun to play, paint, and model.

I believe it was the mid-90's to the early 2000's.

I'll take any part of editions 2nd through 4th, over the present. They absolutely all contained their own unique flavors of crap/broken, but the general "feel" around the hobby made up for that in spades. It was the point in time when the 40K universe was truly the richest. We had the golden age containing Warhammer 40K, Necromunda, Gorkamorka, all the editions of Epic (from Titan legions all the way to Epic: Armageddon), Battlefleet Gothic, Space Hulk, etc.

I swear, back then we were all like little kids with green plastic army men letting our imaginations and enthusiasm run hog wild. Now the modern community is.....well, not that at all.

Some of you need to go chase some kids off your lawn.

Verviedi wrote:
Remember when GW encouraged playing only one army?

Yes I do...

Yes, I remember 3rd and 4th. I remember actually having a community. Or having more than one store that stocked models and had tournaments. Have tournaments so large that the store need to rent out another place to play because the FLGS was too small to host a game with 70 people playing.

I remember Necrom warriors, immortals and monoliths being good. I remember the only flyers being a thunderbolt and ork bombers.

I remember Inquisitors in terminator armour. And Space Wolves with Leman Russes

I remember being excited when the new land raider came out, and the new rhino chassis before CAD.

I remember Andy Chambers and all his faults but his goods he brought to the game as well.

I remember 40k before Logan Claus and the Khorne mower...

I was just thumbing thru my 3rd ed IG codex to look for references of classic-style painting for IG tanks. That was a pretty thin codex. But it was packed with all kinds of fun. I particularly like the army highlight in that book - it was a Cadian army (the metal ones) showcase on a Stalingrad-inspired table. That was pretty awesome.

 spunkybass wrote:
I was just thumbing thru my 3rd ed IG codex to look for references of classic-style painting for IG tanks. That was a pretty thin codex. But it was packed with all kinds of fun. I particularly like the army highlight in that book - it was a Cadian army (the metal ones) showcase on a Stalingrad-inspired table. That was pretty awesome.

Best GW codex ever in my opinion.

I personally like the page with all the different regiments shown and a little fluff on each one. Also the letter from a Guardsmen also is a cool page in that book.

We wrote:
Some of you need to go chase some kids off your lawn.

I can surf Dakka on my iPad while sitting on my porch, keeping an eye on the lawn, waiting for the pesky kids. As for chaseing them off, I'm sure there is an app for that.

Who says us old folk can't use technology?

I do get a chuckle about people refering to the "old" days of 4th edition though.

 vipoid wrote:
I remember when the GW website actually had articles about the armies, as opposed to being a £4000000 webstore.

Right?

They had tons of fluff and background stuff, PDF's for all sorts of things, and more.

Unfortunately now, it's just a lame webstore, a badly organized and poorly laid out one at that.

 PhillyT wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
I remember when the GW website actually had articles about the armies, as opposed to being a £4000000 webstore.

I sort of miss that a lot!

I do not miss the forum... which was awful.

They had some redeeming features, though. Like talking to the studio guys, and the Stealth Marines.

I remember when I was such a newb that after going up against my first Ork-playing opponent, I thought that all flamethrower weapons could be used as power weapons in melee. : D

Remember when they started cranking out beautiful vehicles with the proper scale and made of styrene ?

Remember when they replaced the single pose gakky base units with models you could assemble in any pose you wanted ?

Remember when they broke the barrier between 40K and FW so that people could one day play their favorite huge models ?

Remember when they failed that and tried again by adding beautiful big robots to 40K ?

Remember when they accelerated improvement on their rulesets while also simplifying the rules ?

Remember when, for the first time ever, there was not a single codex outdated by 2+ game editions ? (it's going to happen soon)

Remember when GW realized people needed better tools and created a drybrush paintbrush, the washes, and then more ?

Remember when GW got rid of Baron Sathonyx, when that model would've sold thousands ?

Remember when GW tried to improve on white metal and failed miserably ?

Remember when GW managed for the first time ever to balance 5 armies against each other ?

 Pouncey wrote:
I remember when I was such a newb that after going up against my first Ork-playing opponent, I thought that all flamethrower weapons could be used as power weapons in melee. : D

Wow, the flamer would be even more deadly when charged then!

Remember when they accelerated improvement on their rulesets while also simplifying the rules ?

When did they do that?

Remember when GW managed for the first time ever to balance 5 armies against each other ?

They did it all the time in 4, 5 and 6th. They just balanced them in being bad.

I remember 40k before Logan Claus and the Khorne mower...

So you never played Epic I take it?

 Nevelon wrote:
I remember when there were stats for movement, willpower, cool, and intelligence.

Wow, I also remember these days, so I will carry on with this.

I remember when you needed to pass a CL (Cool) test to overcome fear
I remember when you needed to pass a WP (willpower) test to overcopme a psychic power.
I remember when you had virus grenades, (which could wipe out half my ork army if they stood to close)
I remember before Orks had found squigs
I remeber when you could buy 'Frog Grenades' (Slaves to Darkness typo)
I remember when you had to roll for how your ork mek wepons worked each battle.
I remember when the number of Orks which could ride in a battlewagon were how many you could fit inside it.
I remember when orks could get weapons other than basic guns and rockits.
I remember a time before Terminator armour existed! (but only just)

I remember when I was a White Knight....



I don't miss that.

I remember third edition, which is what I got in at. It is quite much the same as 7th if you ask me. I dont miss the painting sections of the army books, it always seemed so toylike.

What I DO remember best is Grey knights being in the daemonhunter codex, and obsessing over them to the point of reading about them in bed to my gfs frustration.

Remember when people started complaining about gw?
seriously...

Remember when they sold bitz?

Remember when they sold bitz at Games Day?

Remember when they sold bitz by the pound at Games Day?

They brought bins and bins of metal bitz and loose plastic sprues straight from the warehouse in Glen Burnie. They setup tables in the store area with these wooden display boards that had dozens of little bitz glued to the board with a corresponding code. You took an order sheet and little pencil from the table, filled it with the code numbers you wanted, and handed it to a staff member. They picked your order, weighed it, and you took it to the cashier.

You got exactly what you wanted (no mistakes), you could see it before you bought it (no miscasts), and you got all sorts of conversion ideas just by looking at the hundreds of cool bitz. You want 30 meltaguns? No problem. You just want the plastic wheel sprue from the Chimera? Sure. You just want the metal bitz to convert a standard Leman Russ into a Leman Russ Demolisher? Okey dokey artichokey.

 The Wise Dane wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
I remember when I was such a newb that after going up against my first Ork-playing opponent, I thought that all flamethrower weapons could be used as power weapons in melee. : D

Wow, the flamer would be even more deadly when charged then!

Well, it was 3rd at the time, so Overwatch wasn't a current rule.

 Pouncey wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
I remember when I was such a newb that after going up against my first Ork-playing opponent, I thought that all flamethrower weapons could be used as power weapons in melee. : D

Wow, the flamer would be even more deadly when charged then!

Well, it was 3rd at the time, so Overwatch wasn't a current rule.

Yeah, I guess. Looking back (As far as I can, Uncharted Territory after all), it all sounds kinda swell. Not better, but... Better. Hard to explain. For example, I kinda hate that I'll never get to play Epic, because I feel that is the actual scale 40K works best on, or at least the scale represented in stories about Vraks, Damocles Crusade, Defence of Ultramar and so forth. The small games we have with a few hundred models at best being lead by big-time leaders like Creed or Eldrad just seems... Off.

I remember when I actually looked forward to the monthly release of WD. When there was always at least 1 battle report, interviews of players and usually some article on army collection.

I remember a time when you bought equipment with points you had to role a table to see what you got.

I remember a time when smoke grenades were nasty (spam smoke grenades then jump over them attacking the enemy)

I remember a time when i could afford GW just with side jobs in school.

I remember a time when people accepted that other people have different opinion than their own.

I remember a time when genestealers were not associated with the tyranids and had covens.

I remember a time when Imperial guard had beastmen

They had a blog that gave insight into GW?

This diorama was my favorite thing on the blog, showcasing the conversion used in its making:
http://apocalypse40k.blogspot.ca/2012/11/space-wolves-fortess-at-warhammer-world.html

 Crimson Devil wrote:
I remember when I was a White Knight....

I'll tell thee everything I can;
There's little to relate.
I saw an aged, aged man,
A-sitting on a gate...

Exalted my good man.

Remember when Black templars had their own codex?
Remember when there were tons of kickbutt quotes in every few pages of your codex?
Remember the potms vindicators?
Remember the Chappy with termi armor and 6 powerfist attacks on the charge, paired with EW, for only 195 pts?
Remember when you were anticipating, not soiling your pants in fear for the new codex? (Sorry i am newb here, and i am looking at the posts about shooting armies like tau being UP...)Yup, i picked both the wrong army and time to enter hobby...

I remember genestealer cultists

I remember getting a bonus to hit with shooting if you were in closer range

I remember Lictor's flesh hooks grabbing a model and dragging it closer

I remember (and still have) the cardboard ork dreadnaught

I remember Squats

I remember Feral Orks

I remember vortex grenades were tossed around like it was no big deal

I remember when Old One Eye was the most unstoppable thing in my army....he ate so many tanks, and monoliths.

I remember when Chaos Marines had this lovely little thing to look forward to:



I also remember opening the 4th Edition book and the pain that came with it.

Remember when an Alaitoc Ranger Force could kill/pin/put units into reserve even before the game started?
Remember when you could just buy BFG, Necromunda, Epic, etc from GW?

Remember when there were no army lists? I do.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Remember when there were no army lists? I do.

What do you mean?

 vipoid wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Remember when there were no army lists? I do.

What do you mean?

Rogue Trader or Second Edition, I think.

There were army lists in Second Edition.

Remember when you could play a full scale system invasion in BFG followed by a planetary assault in Epic followed by a vital battle over an important objective in 40K followed by a tense skirmish over a small complex using necromunda or Inquisitor?

 Da Boss wrote:
There were army lists in Second Edition.

Remember when you could play a full scale system invasion in BFG followed by a planetary assault in Epic followed by a vital battle over an important objective in 40K followed by a tense skirmish over a small complex using necromunda or Inquisitor?

Yes. Never played Necromunda, Gorkamorka, or Inquistor though.

Remember when...

Index Astartes had special rules for (almost) every founding Space Marine Chapter?

A 1,500 point Space Marine army was around 25 guys?

VORTEX GRENADES. That is all.

Stacking conversion fields, displacer fields and the other kind whose name I forget to get consecutive rerollable invuln saves (This actually might have been illegal, can't remember)

Buying Combat Squads was allowed via White Dwarf for the purposes of playing 500 point 40k games

White Dwarf told you to basically rip up the Virus Outbreak strategy card because it could wipe out your opponent's entire army before the game began

Strategy Cards in general, and Mission Cards with each player having a different objective (if anything should have come back, it should have been these)

Tyranids had special mission cards including one that was basically the game lasted 6 turns, the Tyranid player got to recycle units and if his opponent had anything alive at the end, he won otherwise the Tyranid player won (I still fondly remember a game versus my brother's Nids where I had one guy left at the tail end of Turn 6, and rolled one less on his save than I needed for him to survive)

Tyranids got special effects at the start of the game. Jones is Acting Strangely...

The Eldar Falcon was available only from Armorcast in a resin kit and had different rules that required your opponent's permission to field

Verviedi wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Remember when there were no army lists? I do.

What do you mean?

Rogue Trader or Second Edition, I think.

Just Rogue Trader and only in the early days. White Dwarfs and supplements added army lists (actually several versions). By the end of Rogue Trader, the rules were almost second edition.

I loved playing RT in the early days. We'd roll up some random squads with random equipment and go at it!

I remember toughness 3 marines with 4+ saves (5+ more often than not, since nearly every basic weapon had a -1 save modifier) and them being more psychotic killers who where psycho-conditioned to behave, rather than warrior monks (though there was a little of that feel).

I remember when Eldar were pirates and mercenaries because they got bored on the craftworld, rather than aspect warriors and farseers guiding the universe in secret.

I remember Squats (and I loved the lil buggers).

I remember power fields on every vehicle worth it's salt (gave it a 2+ invulnerable save) and I remember the rules for sneaking a shot through while the power field was flickering to let outgoing fire through.

I remember Ogryns with memorable quotes like: "Dib dib dib. Dob dob dob." Lol

I remember Orks as mean and hateful creatures and then as awesome, fun and ridiculous (Waaaargh Da Orks! anyone?). I remember Orks who were better at getting in short range and shooting, than getting in 'and ter 'and.'

I remember Zoats.

I remember when the Imperial Mantra was: "Purge the Mutant"

I remember a book FULL of homages to popular Sci-Fi books and movies.

I remember amazing, unique and fun b&w art that came straight from the artists' imaginations.

That's the good stuff.

I also remember games that took all day with only a handful of models.

The equivalent of overwatch but at BS -1 on EVERY darn charge.

Vehicles that never died (RT) and Vehicles that died to just about any hit strong enough to bust the armor and then exploding turrets on top of your own general (2nd edition).

I remember close combats worked out one model at a time (2nd).

I remember the pain of models in a unit blocking LOS to each other.

I remember half my army being removed by Tyranids before the game starts (2nd)


I remember too much.

Remember when units had additional stats, including Intelligence, Willpower and, yes, "Cool"?

Verviedi wrote:
Rogue Trader or Second Edition, I think.

Ah.

I started late into 3rd edition, so I don't actually remember that. :S

Mozzamanx wrote:
I remember when Chaos Marines had this lovely little thing to look forward to:

Spoiler:

I also remember opening the 4th Edition book and the pain that came with it.

What are you talking about? There was no 4th Edition Chaos Codex. It never, ever happened. Ever. There was the 3.5 Codex, and the one we have now.

I've never been one for nostalgia. I started in RT but I don't long for the return to it. Some things are better, some things are worse. For me, the bad now outweighs the good, by a large margin.

For the price, I expect a much better product.

I remember loving the game.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Mozzamanx wrote:
I remember when Chaos Marines had this lovely little thing to look forward to:

Spoiler:

I also remember opening the 4th Edition book and the pain that came with it.

What are you talking about? There was no 4th Edition Chaos Codex. It never, ever happened. Ever. There was the 3.5 Codex, and the one we have now.

There's a new Chaos Codex? When did that happen? I've been playing with the 3.5 book since forever and lamenting the fact that Tau, Necrons, and Dark Eldar all got new army books before Chaos did.

Ooh. Just remembered some stuff.

I remember when Leman Russ was a simple space marine commander with an osmotic gill and the Space Wolves were the example chapter of a typical Space Marine Chapter.

I remember when Marneus Calgar was so physically broken, that he never left Macragge.

I remember when Orks were interested in stealing jewels from a farm on Rynn's world.

I remember when IG actually got a discount on melee weapons, compared to marines.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Mozzamanx wrote:
I remember when Chaos Marines had this lovely little thing to look forward to:

Spoiler:

I also remember opening the 4th Edition book and the pain that came with it.

What are you talking about? There was no 4th Edition Chaos Codex. It never, ever happened. Ever. There was the 3.5 Codex, and the one we have now.

Wow I had forgotten that they had separate costs for aspiring champions rather then base IC's, wish they'd do that again considering that a 15 point investment on an aspiring champ isn't as good as one on a Chaos Lord..Ditto Astra Militarium.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Wow I had forgotten that they had separate costs for aspiring champions rather then base IC's, wish they'd do that again considering that a 15 point investment on an aspiring champ isn't as good as one on a Chaos Lord..Ditto Astra Militarium.

It's almost as if they factored in what model would use the weapon when working out its cost, rather than just looking at the weapon itself. What a novel idea.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's almost as if they factored in what model would use the weapon when working out its cost, rather than just looking at the weapon itself. What a novel idea.

Ha! What madness. Next you'll be telling me that a 35pt Rhino shouldn't pay the same for Extra Armour as a 240pt Land Raider.

...When all my Marine sergeants could carry multiple Vortex grenades and the power fist was a valuable melee weapon instead of something that makes you hit last...

...the first game against Ork Hop-Splat artillery...

... coming up with a house rule that if Hop-Splat shells landed on a functioning Vortex that it was the same as rolling a 6 on the Vortex chart...

... the "walking fire" template for the Thudd Gun...

... the acetate "aiming grid" and armored vehicle datasheets for shooting vehicles...

... when Tyranid players weren't immune to Toxin missiles.

Yes. I remember quite a bit from the old days.

...the first game against Ork Hop-Splat artillery...

Oh man those things were so cool, kinda wish they'd bring them back.

All of this makes me think back to those times...

3rd edition with city fight rules...Vogen campaign at my local store!

Black Templar Armageddon codex...Mmm..I miss that thing. Always hitting on 3+!

Salamanders were I3.

SoB being a tough nut to crack! They were always one of my hardest opponents. Them and Demon bomb chaos..

Fear of the CSM demon prince with a crap ton of gifts running up into my line.

Area terrain was nice for blocking LOS. Good and bad, didn't have to deal with the.."I think I can shoot your squad through these 4 pieces of hanging wires, trees, buildings and that window." (Nice cover save tax for that shot.)

I sometimes miss my 3.5E Chaos Lord

2+/5++ T5 W4 with 7 S8 I6 attacks on a charge.

'twas hilarious.

But yeah it's probably a good thing those got toned down.

I chuckle when nearly all of the Black Templars freaking out about not having their own Codex are not old enough to remember when they were simple Vanilla marines, and didn't even become a unique chapter on their own until the Armageddon world campaign codex. When four pages of rules that just supplanted parts of the vanilla codex gave you an extremely cool unique chapter. And came alongside three other unique armies.

But I digress.

I honestly don't think I would be such a 40K fan if I was just coming into wargaming now, instead of in the GW environment of 1996.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I chuckle when nearly all of the Black Templars freaking out about not having their own Codex are not old enough to remember when they were simple Vanilla marines, and didn't even become a unique chapter on their own until the Armageddon world campaign codex. When four pages of rules that just supplanted parts of the vanilla codex gave you an extremely cool unique chapter. And came alongside three other unique armies.

But I digress.

I honestly don't think I would be such a 40K fan if I was just coming into wargaming now, instead of in the GW environment of 1996.

I was, and I do remember. The Emperor's Champion was in the 3rd edition codex before he was in the Armageddon book as well. Besides now Black Templar players are at an all time low, even when we had our codex I was that token BT player at my store.

I remember when you could take a 30 point Space Marine Leader as your HQ.

 triplegrim wrote:
I remember when you could take a 30 point Space Marine Leader as your HQ.

Yes to this day I don't get why they took away the lesser HQ choices for most armies. Why is a Company Captain or the Chapter Master himself leading most SM engagements?

It was nice to have what was basically a jumped up sergeant for small games.

Or just a regular sergeant like in 2nd...

I wish. This makes me tear up. Though I wasn't even born... Wait, when was 3rd ed? I was born in 2002 so tell me. It makes me tear up to see GW so kind and caring and actually giving us FREE templates.

I remember when Thudd Guns had linked templates.

I remember when orks had bolters.

i remember when Madboyz had ten tables of random events to roll on so you could never predict what they would do.

i remember when bo0x sets had 'Chapter Approved' stamped on them.

I not only remember Squats, I still got 'em.

For nostalgia, I only have to look at my unpainted stuff...

Here's a little bit of my oldest! Plastic boxes of Space Orks and Imperial Guard, a set of Grey Knight Terminators, an original Terminator with a Cyclone (wheee only 25mm base bwahaha), an original Harlequin Troupe, and, will you look at that, a premium box of 5 Eldar Aspect Warriors, wings and all, for $12 Canadian.

My thoughts on the first post. Also, I still have my first model: Warrior of Chaos Lord old old sculpt

WayneTheGame wrote:

 triplegrim wrote:
I remember when you could take a 30 point Space Marine Leader as your HQ.

Yes to this day I don't get why they took away the lesser HQ choices for most armies. Why is a Company Captain or the Chapter Master himself leading most SM engagements?

Yeah that was back in the day when Chaos had Lieutenants/Aspiring Champions instead of sorcerers, and they could upgrade to sorcerers instead

I remember when we all complained about these thing (at least the ones that applied to 5th ed), lamenting the ridiculous things GW was doing.

I have heard at some point or another, people complain about all the things listed.

Some things never do change. I understand some people missing this stuff but honestly this website seems to be locked in a pessimistic downward spiral, ready to announce the end of worlds at the slightest proverbial tremor.

EDIT: Misread parts of it.

Talys wrote:
For nostalgia, I only have to look at my unpainted stuff...

Here's a little bit of my oldest! Plastic boxes of Space Orks and Imperial Guard, a set of Grey Knight Terminators, an original Terminator with a Cyclone (wheee only 25mm base bwahaha), an original Harlequin Troupe, and, will you look at that, a premium box of 5 Eldar Aspect Warriors, wings and all, for $12 Canadian.

Those were my first two boxes of plastic you have sitting there! Great stuff.

 docdoom77 wrote:

Talys wrote:
For nostalgia, I only have to look at my unpainted stuff...

Here's a little bit of my oldest! Plastic boxes of Space Orks and Imperial Guard, a set of Grey Knight Terminators, an original Terminator with a Cyclone (wheee only 25mm base bwahaha), an original Harlequin Troupe, and, will you look at that, a premium box of 5 Eldar Aspect Warriors, wings and all, for $12 Canadian.

Those were my first two boxes of plastic you have sitting there! Great stuff.

The first box of plastics I bought were space marines. Sadly, I don't have any of those boxes anymore :(

I remember the Imperium having robots and you had to program them before the game with logic gates. (Sadly, that didn't last long for either)


Unfortunately I also remember my marines getting turned into pink horrors and bulldozered by a chaos lord on a juggernaut somewhere in 2nd/early 3rd, and not playing again until the revised Necrons came out... (they were what got me back collecting & playing).

I remember when Hydras were the best source of Dakka for guard.

....When Land Raiders were $50.

....When GW had actual articles on their website.

....When Forgeworld sold GW plastics on their site.

....When the Mars Alpha Leman Russ ( ) was still available.

Talys wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:

Talys wrote:
For nostalgia, I only have to look at my unpainted stuff...

Here's a little bit of my oldest! Plastic boxes of Space Orks and Imperial Guard, a set of Grey Knight Terminators, an original Terminator with a Cyclone (wheee only 25mm base bwahaha), an original Harlequin Troupe, and, will you look at that, a premium box of 5 Eldar Aspect Warriors, wings and all, for $12 Canadian.

Those were my first two boxes of plastic you have sitting there! Great stuff.

The first box of plastics I bought were space marines. Sadly, I don't have any of those boxes anymore :(

I don't have the boxes anymore, but I do have a ton of RT era Marines. Some are still on the sprue. It's all part of my RT era Crimson Fists I've been working on. Some of those old minis are just great!

 docdoom77 wrote:

I don't have the boxes anymore, but I do have a ton of RT era Marines. Some are still on the sprue. It's all part of my RT era Crimson Fists I've been working on. Some of those old minis are just great!

I have 8 or so painted squads of beakies, and I still have a ton of bits from RT marines I still remember how much I loved them because of how posable they were LOL. The box was such a good value.

Happy days!

WHQ: rolling consecutive 1s in the Power Phase and drawing Monster after Monster Event cards...filling every empty tile space with Monsters. Fun times!

Remember when... there were this Black and White Space Marine on a Black and White Bike who wanted to marry commander's daughter?

Remember when people didn't spout vitriol at something they were going to spend money on anyways? Oh wait, no one does. Soo... Either play old rules or get with the times. And find a way to enjoy the game again.

Spaz431 wrote:
Remember when people didn't spout vitriol at something they were going to spend money on anyways? Oh wait, no one does. Soo... Either play old rules or get with the times. And find a way to enjoy the game again.

Huh.

I didn't know Games Workshop's PR department visited these forums.

Spaz431 wrote:
Remember when people didn't spout vitriol at something they were going to spend money on anyways? Oh wait, no one does. Soo... Either play old rules or get with the times. And find a way to enjoy the game again.

7th edition seems to be rather popular though. And like many people have written in this thread; earlier editions have been horribly unbalanced, and 40k is better now in many ways.

lliu wrote:
I wish. This makes me tear up. Though I wasn't even born... Wait, when was 3rd ed? I was born in 2002 so tell me. It makes me tear up to see GW so kind and caring and actually giving us FREE templates.

It came out the end of 1998 if I recall my dates correctly, because I was still in high school. It might have been 1999.

GW used to care a lot. They had mail order people (the Mail Order Trolls) that if you called them up and said you were looking to let's say start Space Marines, they would see if they could give you any discounts and deals, like if you bought $100 worth of stuff they'd give you a blister pack for free (e.g. buy a couple boxes of Space Marines and maybe you get the Captain free), or the codex for free if you bought like $200. It was great. White Dwarf used to have catalog type pages in the back and they'd feature deals. One I remember was when the Eldar came out for 3rd: Buy two boxes of Aspect Warriors, get a third for 50% off (and they were like $25 at the time).

They would do all sorts of things like that, you just had to call the Mail Order Trolls and ask if they could give you a deal because you were looking to buy a bunch of models.

It is very sad seeing what GW used to be versus what they've become. I doubt any of us would have an issue with them if they were like the GW of old....

WayneTheGame wrote:

lliu wrote:
I wish. This makes me tear up. Though I wasn't even born... Wait, when was 3rd ed? I was born in 2002 so tell me. It makes me tear up to see GW so kind and caring and actually giving us FREE templates.

It came out the end of 1998 if I recall my dates correctly, because I was still in high school. It might have been 1999.

GW used to care a lot. They had mail order people (the Mail Order Trolls) that if you called them up and said you were looking to let's say start Space Marines, they would see if they could give you any discounts and deals, like if you bought $100 worth of stuff they'd give you a blister pack for free (e.g. buy a couple boxes of Space Marines and maybe you get the Captain free), or the codex for free if you bought like $200. It was great. White Dwarf used to have catalog type pages in the back and they'd feature deals. One I remember was when the Eldar came out for 3rd: Buy two boxes of Aspect Warriors, get a third for 50% off (and they were like $25 at the time).

They would do all sorts of things like that, you just had to call the Mail Order Trolls and ask if they could give you a deal because you were looking to buy a bunch of models.

It is very sad seeing what GW used to be versus what they've become. I doubt any of us would have an issue with them if they were like the GW of old....

The books and magazines were more personal back in the day too. I love reading my old White Dwarfs. Just seemed like a bunch of gamers doing what they loved. Not a glorified advert.

I miss the personal feel, but with success you get more impersonal companies. Just look at Wal-mart when it became popular and Walmart now.

 docdoom77 wrote:
The books and magazines were more personal back in the day too. I love reading my old White Dwarfs. Just seemed like a bunch of gamers doing what they loved. Not a glorified advert.

I miss the personal feel, but with success you get more impersonal companies. Just look at Wal-mart when it became popular and Walmart now.

My oldest White Dwarf magazines read, "The Science Fiction & Fantasy Games and Miniatures Magazine", and many, many of my White Dwarf magazines are described s "The Role-Playing Games Monthly". Back then, Games Workshop had a one page advertisement in every issue... cutout mail order forms too haha

The funny thing is, I used to buy White Dwarf to get Dungeons and Dragons content... lol. There was some Call of Cthulhu stuff that was cool as well.

And who can forget Thrudd the Barbarian!!!

Found a WD #98 in a thrift shop. It had more content in one issue than WD has had in the years I have played the hobby (5 total)

 Bronzefists42 wrote:
Found a WD #98 in a thrift shop. It had more content in one issue than WD has had in the years I have played the hobby (5 total)

I dug through my WD box, and I have this one!!! It has ultramarines on the cover, and sold for $2.50 USD

Frankly, flipping through it, minus photos of miniatures, it has more content in one issue than like..... the last 20 issues of White Dwarf hahaha. Even the 'Eavy Metal article was awesome. Someone actually WROTE a whole article.

Look at this little side tip:

"A brush reaches its height, in terms of usefulness, when enough bristles have dropped out to leave only those that come to a point. Eventually, of course ,too many bristles drop out, but to ensure as long a life as possible for your little sable familiar, revolving the tip of the brush as it rests lightly on the end of your tongue helps to keep the bristles coming to a point by wrapping them around each other. Or, moistening the bristles and running them through the folds in a curled palm will have a similar effect."

When was the last time you saw something that useful in a WD?!

Remember hen Finecast was the hot new thing with super detail - never mind the bubbles in the moulds.

I remember when GW gave the rules for SoB for free on their website...and they were awesome!

I remember when this was all fields.

Bronzefists42 wrote:Found a WD #98 in a thrift shop. It had more content in one issue than WD has had in the years I have played the hobby (5 total)

Hee. I have #2 on a shelf at my parents' house. It had rules for my favourite DnD monster in it and the most broken magic item ever (the Needle of Incalculable Power).

AdeptSister wrote:I remember when GW gave the rules for SoB for free on their website...and they were awesome!

I remember when we had to pay for the SoB rules from their website... and they were awesome! :p

Azreal13 wrote:I remember when this was all fields.

Heh. I live in a village whose name literally translates to "undeveloped land".

 ciaotym wrote:
Remember hen Finecast was the hot new thing with super detail - never mind the bubbles in the moulds.

+1

Remember when miniatures were cast in lead? That was by far the best material.

Talys wrote:

 ciaotym wrote:
Remember hen Finecast was the hot new thing with super detail - never mind the bubbles in the moulds.

+1

Remember when miniatures were cast in lead? That was by far the best material.

Fun times. A number of years ago (but after they stopped making stuff with real lead) I was cleaning the mould lines off of an old mini with a file. ZIPPPPPP. Took off a lot more then I meant to. I was so used to the harder alloys, going back to the soft lead was a shock.

Made sure to wash up good after that one. Don’t lick the minis kids.

I remember when a subscription to White Dwarf netted you a free box of miniatures (I think the limit was a $30 box, which would get you 20 Catachans).

I remember cardstock terrain, both in White Dwarf, and in separate products.

I remember Games Days (yes, days, as in it lasted more than one day) which had seminars with product leaks for stuff that was months down the road, and clearance sales on stock.

I remember bitz ordering.

I remember converting models and creating terrain and buildings being featured and emphasized in WD and the rulebooks.

I also remember fairly straightforward output from Black Library (i.e. regular edition and special edition with cool tat), rather than offering things in six different formats and compilations.

I remember (in fact, I HAVE) White Dwarf mags advertising "every Games Workshop miniature ever made is available--nothing is unavailable!".

When I was 16 or so, my grandmother came to town for Christmas and heard from my parents that I was into this "warhammer" thing, so on the way from the airport she stopped in a local comic/rpg shop that had a few GW items and got me a present. Like many gift buyers to this day, she had no idea what army I was interested in so she got something she thought I'd find interesting. She ended up getting me the screamer-killer carnifex:



While I played marines and orks, I absolutely loved it and ended up making a tyranid force with lots of metal warriors and the first plastic genestealers.



I spent hours painting the screamer in the evenings and managed to get it done before she left in early January. It was the first time I ever tried wet blending. With my grandmother passing away earlier this year, I realized the early 90s carnifex is the only miniature I regret selling when I got out of 40k.

I love that old Carnifex model. One of the best models in the entire history of the Tyranid model range.

I remember a campaign where...

Inquisitor was played to discover a chaos cult on an imperial planet. and the fact the planetary governor is the leader

Battlefleet Gothic was played as the local marine chapter fought through the planetary defences in answer to the inquisitors call for support to..

Drop in and take out the cult leader in a game of 40k (they failed)

Battle fleet Gothic was played as imperials and chaos rush to take the planets orbitals

Culminating in a game of epic as a marine chapter (half of one) with titan support tries to breach the capital city against the PDF (space marines versus Imperial Guard)

The game of epic was a draw, so back to 40k as an eversor assassin rips through the governors bodyguards in an effort to kill him in an orgy of bloodshed in a custom game, only to find out he is a lord of change (Assassin dies spectacularly)

the Grey knights drop in to try to take him out, but fail,

Then the PDF realises whats up, another game of epic with IG, space marines and Titans versus lots of cultists, daemons and some word bearers (eek). imperials win a decisive victory. but the story isn't over yet.

our inquisitor tracks down the last remaining cultists and their word bearer leader, and with help from a Deathwatch marine, some 'questionable' weapons and a lot of luck, stamp out the chaos leader and his last supporters.

Eldar intervene to try to kill the inquisitor (he will go bad) in a game of 40k...

and then orks attack the now weakened imperial planet

Lots more games of epic, 40k, BFG and so forth followed

 PhillyT wrote:
Remember waiting half a decade for your book to be released or some model for it?

Other than cost, pretty much everything is better about the game right now.

Seconded. I love the current game. I started in 4th edition and I remember nothing but bad things about it.

 Brennonjw wrote:
My thoughts on the first post. Also, I still have my first model: Warrior of Chaos Lord old old sculpt

Spoiler:

Remember when GW taught us how to paint in their rulebooks? -
WHFB does this along with the painting book they put out, it cost me like 30 bucks
Remember when rulebooks cost $30? -
agreed
Remember when GW recommended painting models in batches? -
still do in WHFB and paitning book
Remember when GW showed us how to make terrain instead of saying "RoB lel" -
still do in WHFB
Remember when there was no Overwatch? -
I like overwatch
Remember when CC was good? -
still is IMO, its just harder to get there
Remember when Rulebooks included showcases of fan and developer armies? -
agreed
Remember when GW gave us free Bunker and Ruin templates we could scan and trace? -
WHFB still does
Remember when campaign running strategies were part of the Rulebook? -
agreed
Remember when there was individual model XP in campaigns? -
agreed, but you can still do that in campaigns, the rules exist for 7th
Remember when Golden Demon winning models and conversions were in the back of the rulebook? -
in WHFB
Remember when Serpent Shield was represented by giving Wave Serpents AV14? -
lul
Remember when free templates were included with the Rulebook? -
WHFB
Remember when there were 10 armies? -
glad there are more
Remember when community members were honored on the last page? -
agreed
Remember when GW encouraged playing only one army? -
either way I would play more then one
Remember when Codex: Sisters of Battle was the most recent Codex? -
lul
Remember when the Grey Knights were in Codex: Daemonhunters? -
lul
Remember when a LRMBT cost $35? -
agreed
Remember when GW did sales? -
whats a sale, agreed
Remember when the central pic for Space Marines was a Crimson Fist? -
eh.
Remember when Ordnance Barrages were a thing? -
agreed
Remember when the player being shot at chose who died? -
I feel current way is more tacticaly soudn and better. no super sergant who never died untill the end.

That's true! When was 3rd ad anyways?

lliu wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
My thoughts on the first post. Also, I still have my first model: Warrior of Chaos Lord old old sculpt

Spoiler:

Remember when GW taught us how to paint in their rulebooks? -
WHFB does this along with the painting book they put out, it cost me like 30 bucks
Remember when rulebooks cost $30? -
agreed
Remember when GW recommended painting models in batches? -
still do in WHFB and paitning book
Remember when GW showed us how to make terrain instead of saying "RoB lel" -
still do in WHFB
Remember when there was no Overwatch? -
I like overwatch
Remember when CC was good? -
still is IMO, its just harder to get there
Remember when Rulebooks included showcases of fan and developer armies? -
agreed
Remember when GW gave us free Bunker and Ruin templates we could scan and trace? -
WHFB still does
Remember when campaign running strategies were part of the Rulebook? -
agreed
Remember when there was individual model XP in campaigns? -
agreed, but you can still do that in campaigns, the rules exist for 7th
Remember when Golden Demon winning models and conversions were in the back of the rulebook? -
in WHFB
Remember when Serpent Shield was represented by giving Wave Serpents AV14? -
lul
Remember when free templates were included with the Rulebook? -
WHFB
Remember when there were 10 armies? -
glad there are more
Remember when community members were honored on the last page? -
agreed
Remember when GW encouraged playing only one army? -
either way I would play more then one
Remember when Codex: Sisters of Battle was the most recent Codex? -
lul
Remember when the Grey Knights were in Codex: Daemonhunters? -
lul
Remember when a LRMBT cost $35? -
agreed
Remember when GW did sales? -
whats a sale, agreed
Remember when the central pic for Space Marines was a Crimson Fist? -
eh.
Remember when Ordnance Barrages were a thing? -
agreed
Remember when the player being shot at chose who died? -
I feel current way is more tacticaly soudn and better. no super sergant who never died untill the end.

That's true! When was 3rd ad anyways?

I want to say 1998?

Yeah, 3rd came out in '98, a few months after Necrons.