The other day a guy showed up to my flgs with a space marine army and the infantry were all GW models, but all the land raider and rhino models were clearly 3D printed. Curious what the community thinks.
Yep, it is none of my business how my opponent reconciles the cost of playing with what their income allows. As long as it is clear what it represents, and preferably doesn't look like crap, I have no issue at all.
For the person who already voted "no not at all" have a word with yourself would you?!
Depends on how it looks. I've seen a 3D printed Leman Russ and it didn't look all that great. If it's covered in lines from a poor print job and/or not even painted then I would probably not look on it too favourably.
I play miniature games for the tactile and visual aesthetic. So if they do a good job of it I will be happy to.
Actually, I have a handful of models I have printed myself (you get a significant discount on 3D printers for being in the education field). I have 3 eldar void shield generators made of clear plastic tinted with enamels and some dragons teeth tank traps. GW doesn't make them, thus I ported models from Dawn of War: Soulstorm, lol.
If the model is recognizable, obvious and correctly proportioned, I don't care where it came from and would even use it myself. I wouldn't fault someone for it any more than I'd fault someone for sculpting a model from Green Stuff or Resin at home.
Honest question for the whippersnappers...how would I know if an opponents model was 3D printed?
I play with peoplewho scratch build alot of stuff...so what would the giveaway be? (to answer your question though, I wouldn't care one bit. What do I care if British tycoons who're attempting to screw me into poverty over a line of toys earn enough dough for their thirteenth Bentley?)
Azreal13 wrote: Yep, it is none of my business how my opponent reconciles the cost of playing with what their income allows. As long as it is clear what it represents, and preferably doesn't look like crap, I have no issue at all.
For the person who already voted "no not at all" have a word with yourself would you?!
As the first person to vote "no, not at all", I'll share my reasoning.
The main reason is that I personally feel that it is unethical (it can be compared to stealing IMO) to print copies of models.
As posted by calamarialldayerrday:
I wouldn't buy recasts. I have no problem buying things that look similar, with "borrowed" ideas (think Puppets of War) etc., but the recasts are just straight up stolen. I pirate digital material all the time, but not physical objects. It is different. Digital information is designed to be copyable, propagating, but physical things are different. You are doing a disservice to the original creators.
I find 3D printed models to be akin to recasts.
However, I don't mind 3D printing certain parts of the model.
BoomWolf wrote: Reasoning of the print. wanting to get some unique shoulder pads and poses is one thing, printing an identical looking rhino is another.
If someone wants to make unique shoulder pads, rhino doors, and other minor aesthetics is great, and I would play against that.
However, if someone was to print entire models, I wouldn't play against it.
BoomWolf wrote: 2-reasoning of the print. wanting to get some unique shoulder pads and poses is one thing, printing an identical looking rhino is another.
How does your opponents motivations and reasoning impact on your game?
The game directly? none at all. the community in general? it does.
We got our local shop, who does plenty of discount sells maintain a large club for us to play for minimal fees in and are generally awesome guys, a printer who does it just to "feth the system" and does not even make anything of unique value (or even save any meaningful amount of money, the printers aint cheap), is not the type of folk I'd like to hang around with.
Again, its a case-by-case scenario here, no hard line that I can point at, but if I run into it, I'd recognize it.
Azreal13 wrote: Yep, it is none of my business how my opponent reconciles the cost of playing with what their income allows. As long as it is clear what it represents, and preferably doesn't look like crap, I have no issue at all.
For the person who already voted "no not at all" have a word with yourself would you?!
As the first person to vote "no, not at all", I'll share my reasoning.
The main reason is that I personally feel that it is unethical (it can be compared to stealing IMO) to print copies of models.
As posted by calamarialldayerrday:
I wouldn't buy recasts. I have no problem buying things that look similar, with "borrowed" ideas (think Puppets of War) etc., but the recasts are just straight up stolen. I pirate digital material all the time, but not physical objects. It is different. Digital information is designed to be copyable, propagating, but physical things are different. You are doing a disservice to the original creators.
I find 3D printed models to be akin to recasts.
However, I don't mind 3D printing certain parts of the model.
BoomWolf wrote: Reasoning of the print. wanting to get some unique shoulder pads and poses is one thing, printing an identical looking rhino is another.
If someone wants to make unique shoulder pads, rhino doors, and other minor aesthetics is great, and I would play against that.
However, if someone was to print entire models, I wouldn't play against it.
Firstly, it is never to correct to refer to IP violations as theft. Theft requires the physical removal of property, and is a criminal act, IP violation does not and is a civil offence.
Secondly, yet again, as with the recast debate, we have people (not just you) drawing arbitrary lines in the sand with very little hard logic to back it up. Firstly, prints are not akin to recasts, unless you think people are hacking into GW's server and stealing the 3D models off their system, any printed material is likely to be based off of a CAD model designed from scratch. Now, if that model happens to look like an existing model, how do you differentiate between any of the "not-whatever" alternate models out there and a printed model? At what point does a model become too much like the model it is representing to be acceptable?
I guess someone could buy and build the model, laser scan it into a 3D modelling program then make the files available for free online, that might be more akin to recasting, but I can't really see that being a huge issue in the current climate.
Also, morally, there's not really a huge distinction between playing someone who has a single, 3D printed shoulder pad with some IP infringing iconography on it and an entire army, it is akin to being ok with someone stabbing a person a bit and condemning them for stabbing them a lot.
BoomWolf wrote: You ask if we play against printed, but two valuable pieces of info are mising:
1-quality of the print. if its looks like lego and if it looks proper makes two different cases.
Why, do you refuse to play people with poorly painted/assembled models too? How it looks is not important as long as what it represents is clear.
Because the quality CAN be that low that I'm having a hard time to understand what I'm seeing.
There is low quality, and there is unreasonable quality, when you see the latter, you'd recognize it.
But that's not an issue specific to printed models is it? Scratch built models, or even extreme examples of kitbashes, paint jobs or poor assembly could make a model difficult to identify, not wishing to play against models that are hard to identify is a legitimate opinion, but not inherently to do with 3D models.
BoomWolf wrote: 2-reasoning of the print. wanting to get some unique shoulder pads and poses is one thing, printing an identical looking rhino is another.
How does your opponents motivations and reasoning impact on your game?
The game directly? none at all. the community in general? it does.
We got our local shop, who does plenty of discount sells maintain a large club for us to play for minimal fees in and are generally awesome guys, a printer who does it just to "feth the system" and does not even make anything of unique value (or even save any meaningful amount of money, the printers aint cheap), is not the type of folk I'd like to hang around with.
Again, its a case-by-case scenario here, no hard line that I can point at, but if I run into it, I'd recognize it.
Awful lot of assumptions here. What you're essentially saying is if the guy is a douche, you wouldn't want to play him? Agreed. But if he is a "feth the system" type guy, who is willing to, as you point out, do it for no significant saving, then how is he damaging a community by not buying models from the local store he wouldn't have bought anyway? Now, bringing your 3D printed models into a LGS is a douchey move, but that's more of a separate issue.
Personal taste or distaste needs no logic, we are not making a scientific argument here.
And as said, there is no strict line we can point at, yet the cases are obvious once encountered.
Alternate models for alternate appearance sake are fine, cool and nice.
COPIES, even lousy attempted ones, are insulting.
And there is a massive difference between a single shoulder plate and an entire army, and you know it damn well.
When someone has a single sholder pad the question that immediately rises is WHY-and most likely, he is missing one specific bit, getting it off bit shops was not possible so he went to print/cast it.
An entire army does not fall into the "no point buying a 75$ kit for a single tiny bit" stance. its not that without the ability to print/cast it himself he would have bought the entire kit, he would just give up that tiny stylization, no ACTUAL product sells were denied because of that pad. many sells were denied in the army.
And the printed models does not "happen to look like", it was DESIGNED to. it was its purpose.
As for kitbash being unrecogniseable-who said I'm accepting these? the model, whatever its source MUST be recognizable at the point minimum.
And the assumptions clause-this is why I said there is no clear line I can point at, its TOO case relative, too many virables you can only look at once a case appears in your eyes.
But bringing a printed copy-type army to the very gaming club that sells said models is a jerk action, and as I don't approve of it, I don't approve playing against it. by that tiny act I am putting my own small influence of "don't do that stuff"
And there is a massive difference between a single shoulder plate and an entire army, and you know it damn well.
Not if you're taking the stance that it is "wrong" there isn't.
Saying "I wouldn't play against a whole because I think it looks rubbish and it would mean I wouldn't enjoy the game" is a fine and valid viewpoint.
Making some sort of moral objection about the legality of it, then saying "but I'm ok with it if it is only a little bit illegal" is not, which is the point I was making.
Again, you are asking questions in a void that cannot be answered BECAUSE its in a void. and you are doing it on purpose.
Reasons matter, intentions matter, thats why attempted murder lands you more jailtime than accidental manslaughter (extreme example, but the point stands)
My problem is not the legality of it, a single unobtainable bit is just as illegal (less so in fact, due to its far lesser value than a full kit, but whatever), but it does not send the same message across, nor does it donate to the same behavior.
A scratch built unit? sure, no problem. as long there is a valid REASON. heck, I got my own. and my reasoning is as simple as "shame to waste all these bits I already had from other kits, might as well do SOMETHING with it", and it goes fine with the surrounding.
Recast weapons? depends. is it easily massed-obtained bolters? or is it a specific hard to get gun that is the only bit he needed? (like getting grav guns for his old marines)
Maybe its a weapon that only comes in metal, and he wanted one he can actually use properly? that's cool.
A replica meltagun just so he can run multiples off a single kit, less appreciative, but not likely to be a gamebraker on its own.
I'm not making a moral stance here, I'm making a tasteful stance. replicating the works of others in order to avoid paying them is distasteful to me and I refuse to go along with it, but when its made in small scale, for things that are obviously not making a difference, its not enough to pull me off.
There is no "line in the sand", there is a small slope, and when I feel uncomfortable of where I stand, I leave.
And the printed models does not "happen to look like", it was DESIGNED to. it was its purpose.
In that case, is be interested to know your stance on 3rd party minis that are quite clearly designed to be stand-ins for 40k? For example, Vic Minis not-Guardsmen or Anvil's not-SM? In the case of either those or 3d printed stuff, the following in true:
They are made, by design, to be a substitute for something in 40k There are no real savings over GW kits
They are generally only available online, so do not support an LGS They went through a design and manufacture process from scratch
In other words, how is Anvil making a CAD model that looks like a SM, printing it, casting it in resin and selling it any different from someone else following the same first 2/3 steps? The process is the same, the product is the same or similar, the only difference is that the individual is not selling it himself.
As far as the OP goes, my stance is that I game with the player, not the minis. If you're a decent guy, you can play with 3rd party, recasts, scratch builds, 3D prints, paper cutouts, whatever. I'd you're not, then you feth off even if you have a fully painted, GW only army.
If someone recast their whole army I may play against them, but I'm likely to be annoyed. I find those who recast entire armies to have a TFG mentality oftentimes. Those around where I am who would 3d print are the same who will try to play with entire recast armies.
It's going to depend on why they printed, what they printed, if it looks like the model in question, and where we're playing.
Azrael: There doesn't need to be some magic logic behind it. Your logic is influenced by your "don't tell me what to do" lens. Others are influenced by the logical lens that reproduction instead of buying means that money is not going to the company, and if stores are being played at then those stores. There are plenty of other lenses you need to see through to have a comprehensive argument, and if you're going to be THAT argumentative you need to start looking through all of them.
I personally wouldn't use 3d printed models, but I guess if an opponent chose to use an inferior product that's their choice, in the same way they can use third party models (not saying third arty are necessarily inferior or superior to gw)
At the same time I wouldn't approve of the illegal use
Not everyone can afford the real models. I wouldnt want one myself because of the effort and fragility of it but it it looks decent and I know whats what at a glance. Meh, I dont care.
I wouldn't care really, for a number of reasons, but ultimately, as of right now there's nothing particularly great out that doesn't look like Lego (and thus is an inferior product), and by the time there is great looking stuff out at economical prices, there isn't going to be anything anyone will really be able to do about it, especially, once painted, identifying such may be impossible.
And the printed models does not "happen to look like", it was DESIGNED to. it was its purpose.
In that case, is be interested to know your stance on 3rd party minis that are quite clearly designed to be stand-ins for 40k? For example, Vic Minis not-Guardsmen or Anvil's not-SM? In the case of either those or 3d printed stuff, the following in true:
They are made, by design, to be a substitute for something in 40k There are no real savings over GW kits
They are generally only available online, so do not support an LGS They went through a design and manufacture process from scratch
In other words, how is Anvil making a CAD model that looks like a SM, printing it, casting it in resin and selling it any different from someone else following the same first 2/3 steps? The process is the same, the product is the same or similar, the only difference is that the individual is not selling it himself.
As far as the OP goes, my stance is that I game with the player, not the minis. If you're a decent guy, you can play with 3rd party, recasts, scratch builds, 3D prints, paper cutouts, whatever. I'd you're not, then you feth off even if you have a fully painted, GW only army.
Again you focus at the LEAST important factor, the WHAT.
When I time and time again say that the most important factor is the WHY.
Is there something special in the anvil look the wanted? there are quite a few rather unique things in anvil who I find it completely plausible he wants due to sheer looks, be it guns, the robed figures, the super-poseable bionic legs, or many other cool bits.
Making a complete model and complete armies out of them is also quite possible, not that I know why, its so darn expensive-but its a possibility, and as long its done because of reasons that do not bother me, than the act itself does not bother me.
Same goes for the victoria models, they have their own styles and apperances that differ from the GW ones, sure they represent the same units, but they differ in appearance and offer selections not available through GW,
There is also a great difference between copies, and alternates.
The main reason is that I personally feel that it is unethical (it can be compared to stealing IMO) to print copies of models.
Firstly, it is never to correct to refer to IP violations as theft. Theft requires the physical removal of property, and is a criminal act, IP violation does not and is a civil offence.
I never said it was stealing/theft, just comparative.
If someone wants to make unique shoulder pads, rhino doors, and other minor aesthetics is great, and I would play against that.
However, if someone was to print entire models, I wouldn't play against it.
Secondly, yet again, as with the recast debate, we have people (not just you) drawing arbitrary lines in the sand with very little hard logic to back it up. Firstly, prints are not akin to recasts, unless you think people are hacking into GW's server and stealing the 3D models off their system, any printed material is likely to be based off of a CAD model designed from scratch. Now, if that model happens to look like an existing model, how do you differentiate between any of the "not-whatever" alternate models out there and a printed model? At what point does a model become too much like the model it is representing to be acceptable?
I guess someone could buy and build the model, laser scan it into a 3D modelling program then make the files available for free online, that might be more akin to recasting, but I can't really see that being a huge issue in the current climate.
Also, morally, there's not really a huge distinction between playing someone who has a single, 3D printed shoulder pad with some IP infringing iconography on it and an entire army
There is a major distinction.
One means that someone originally paid for the models, and just wants to add some flair. Morally, that if fine by me.
The other means that they didn't pay for the models, and just wanted to play without spending money. Morally, that does not sit well with me.
In fact, several people have suggested producing a 3D model offers little to no saving over buying the original, so price doesn't appear to be a major component.
Are you saying that someone who 3D prints a shoulder pad with IP infringing iconography is ok because they legitimately obtained the rest of the model?
I'm pretty sure that's not how that law works.
If that's what you're ok with, that's fine, but I'm really struggling to see how the conversation would go where you established how much of your opponents army was 3D printed, decided whether that comprised of things you found acceptable or not and then let them know if you were or were not happy to play them.
"Ok, so it's just some Rhino doors, that chapter logo on the Drop Pod and the shoulder pads on the veterans? Ok, I'm happy to say....wait, where'd you go?"
But bringing a printed copy-type army to the very gaming club that sells said models is a jerk action, and as I don't approve of it, I don't approve playing against it. by that tiny act I am putting my own small influence of "don't do that stuff"
thats my thoughts. I useally play at my FLGS, if I'm doing so I;'m not going to wanna play against someone who 3D printed all their models, it's just a bit insulting really
I don't know, depends on how accurate it is. I play warhammer to face warhammer armies not copies. If someone has a stand in army of slightly differently looking 3d printed models I wouldn't feel like I was playing 40k. I'd feel like I was playing some alternative game just using the rules.
But I don't like stand in models either much so I guess its a personal preference (even worse when they sub another model in their army so half way through a game you think your charging a lowly unit when actually its 'supposed' to be a demon prince and you get caked)
I am trying to wrap my head around how some one could be insulted by a 3D Army.
1] It was not cheap.
2] Work had to go into it.
3] If it is painted there was some more work.
It is not like they are bringing out little green army men.
They Put in Time, Money and Work into it.
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AtomicEngineer wrote: I don't know, depends on how accurate it is. I play warhammer to face warhammer armies not copies. If someone has a stand in army of slightly differently looking 3d printed models I wouldn't feel like I was playing 40k. I'd feel like I was playing some alternative game just using the rules.
But I don't like stand in models either much so I guess its a personal preference (even worse when they sub another model in their army so half way through a game you think your charging a lowly unit when actually its 'supposed' to be a demon prince and you get caked)
So you would have an issue with my 20% GW Guard Army even though everything was painted and WYSIWYG?
I don't think that 3D printing models will really do anything to the industry. I actually think it will help it because as 3D printers will become more available, people will 3D print models more as GWs prices are insane. Assuming they don't go full slow, they will then lower their prices and everything will fall back into balance. Think about it, has pirating CDs destroyed the music industry? Has pirating movies destroyed the film industry? Has pirating video games destroyed the video game industry? Then why will pirating models destroy the war gaming industry?
It does not bother me a single bit, if my opponent chooses to field official GW models, 3D copies, Lego minifigs, or blocks of wood as their force. Just so long as his army list is written out completely, and I can refer to it as needed, in determining what unit is what.
Consider this, if a good 3D printer goes for $3000, that is almost 2 full 92nd Cadia army deals. They are $1635 each. And the person has not spent money on plastic materials yet.
Smotejob wrote: The other day a guy showed up to my flgs with a space marine army and the infantry were all GW models, but all the land raider and rhino models were clearly 3D printed. Curious what the community thinks.
Would you refuse to play against an all second hand army?
As long as it's clear what every model is supposed to be and it is of appropriate size on a proper base then I don't really care. I'm quite happy with counts as etc.
Bonus points if stuff is painted and modelled etc. slightly annoying if the whole army was recast and 3D prints with no attempt at paint.
You can hide behind "it's not technically theft" all you want. Piracy is wrong and I would not play someone who pirated their army.
Second hand is different because the models were still purchased at some point and the original buyer has more or less passed on his right to use the models to someone else.
3D printing is not piracy. Unless you are suggesting that the files originated at GW and are the ones used to make the actual minis, the printed models have gone through the same design process from scratch. To use a musical analogy, it's the difference between illegally downloading a track (piracy) and recording your own cover version of it which you don't even sell and is in no way illegal.
Just because copyright infraction have no fancy name like "piracy" and "theft" does not mean its legal, or acceptable.
Imagin that you spend years developing some sort of new technology, just to have some other people copy your hard work while paying you no respects and ignoring you, making it so you get nothing for your time and effort.
In a world where the norm is that copying is alright, there is no interest to ever produce anything that can be replicated-because you'll get screwed over doing all the work, yet will reap no profits.
Just as much as you wont make paper prints of a board game, despite it being totally possibly and not even hard, but you'll buy the actual game so I expect as much of minis, and just as reprinting a handful of lost cards off a massive bulk won't make me twitch, so wont minor recreations of bits who might be too hard to acquire on their own.
If you are playing 40k, it means you enjoy the system and at the very LEAST like the style and setting, having a "well, you made it so now I don't need you anymore and got no reason to pay you" mentality might not be illegal (it is), but it is still unpleasant and makes me want to avoid contact with the one practicing it.
Rule of thumb-if I would not enjoy people doing the same with a product of my own design, I do not approve of them doing it with the games I play. (theoretically speaking naturally, I have yet to make a product, being just a student these days and not yet an engineer)
And I won't pretend to be a saint, I've done my fair share of piracy in my life, but never as a end deal, only to try things out and decide, had I liked the game-I bought it, if not-erased it. the only exception are games I bought and for some reason can no longer play regularly (disc damaged/lost/incompatible with new tech/etc)
Printing your own replica models is a very clear indication you got no intention to ever buy them.
I still don't see how it's any different to using non-GW models to play the game in that regard. In either case, GW (the people who made the game) get nothing, and you can still play that game. It's also the same as scratch-building from plasticard and with no GW bits, you're getting an equivalent product similar to the original, but without paying the people that 'originated' the design. Would you play against something like that?
I think if you have the skill, ability and equipment to make something for yoursel, be it a scratch-built Chimera or a printed Space Marine, then all power to you. You're not 'stealing' anything other than a concept (human in power armour is hardly an original idea on GW's part), and as has been pointed out, there are companies out there doing just that that you said you'd be happy to face.
I can understand wanting to be loyal to an LGS, but that's really the only reason I can see that you could have a real issue with it.
Please note that I'm not trying to start an argument, I just can't quite see where you're coming from.
BoomWolf wrote: Just because copyright infraction have no fancy name like "piracy" and "theft" does not mean its legal, or acceptable.
You're framing a moral argument as a legal one.
It is not legal to reproduce a company's protected works without permission. A Rhino (for instance) is not protected in it's entirety, although there may be key features that are (such as chapter iconography.)
It is perfectly acceptable, legally speaking, to design and print an APC which looks a lot like a Rhino, as long as there are some differences, which in the case of a 3D printed model designed from scratch are likely to exist naturally. There is the whole "likely to cause confusion" element, but as we are talking, ostensibly, about someone who has made them for themselves and not trying to sell them, isn't really applicable.
You can say that you find the idea of someone producing something themselves to look like something sold commercially wrong, that's your choice, but to call it illegal in this context is not an argument on solid footing. Yes, it could be illegal, but it is in no way a slum dunk in the way recasts are.
Personally I'd have no issue playing vs. anyone using 3rd party, 3d printed or recast models as long as they look good.
Especially for less homogenous forces like Chaos Orks or Guard there just is too much variety in there for non-gw models (regardless of their provenance) to not fit or even be required in somebody's idea of army.
Personally I own a few 3d printed gaming aids (blast templates, as I find my local price of 8€ for a cut sheet of plastic a bit ridiculous and if I were to spend some real cash on templates I'd nuy something like Pyrkol's who actually looks a cerain way to justify the cash) but I wouldn't buy 3d printed units because I don't feel the quality is good enough yet. I will buy 3rd pary models however at some point in the not very distant future when I get around to startung an IG army simply because I don't like the aesthetics of any of GW's guard infantry lines.
In our group nobody is too opposed to 3d printing, but we all like the models due to their quality. And 3d printing models is far far away from looking as good as the originals. And according to a friend of mine who works for a 3d printer company it will stay like this for a while due to physical constraints.
We're using more and more 3d printed terrain, though. If you use the right material you can spray it with acetone and melt it a bit. This would ruin any detail on models, but gives great organic forms, like stones, trees or hills.
i think one assumption that is bad to have here is that each person with a 3D printed army made the 3d renders themselves before printing.
Let's not lie to ourselves, there is definitely databases that have premade renders of warhammer 40k models out on the net.
Sure they may call it "Sci-Fi APC" instead of Rhino transport, but we all know what it is supposed to be. There is also people who will straight up call it what it is and make it readily available to anyone searching.
If people are just downloading these files and printing them off, is it really ok?
i dont think it is and i am willing to bet more people will be downloading files than making their own.
Oh one simple, practical reason should not be forgotten: You can print only about one, two at best, models per day in (current) high detail with a layer thickness of 0.1mm
That means you will only get one squad in 10 days. Printing your basic Space Marine army would take months. And that in gruesome detail level. I think this discussion is still rather theoretical.
edit: this just inspired me to create a thread for collecting ideas how you can best use your 3d printer legally for the hobby.
I have a few 3d printed models in my army. I have access to a printer at work and it was not terribily expensive. A number of us at work pitched in $100 to have a "share" of the printer.
Here is a Thunderfire cannon I modeled myself and a techmarine wich i made from a regular marine and added some 3d printed arms. Both models are not great, but work fine in my games and have never had anyone complain or refuse to play me. Total cost to print the techmarine and the cannon ~$1.75 worth of material.
I recently found this model online and gave it a try and it came out pretty well. It was printed in 6 pieces and glued together. I need to get it painted up, but I think it will look pretty good when finished. Total printing cost ~$5.00.
This is my best result from the printer so far. I use it as a looted wagon or battle wagon. The base is the printed portion and then I added the bits from the turret up to have a platform. Most people I play against with this do not know it is a 3d printed model unless I tell them, so that indicate to me the quality is good enough to "fool" most people when looking at it from a tables distance. of course if they pick up and look they could see the differences pretty easy. This was printed all as one piece total cost ~$6.50
I have also printed a number of bases for an ork army I bought off a guy that was missing a lot of bases. I probably based 1/2 of them with a 3d printed base. Those can't be detected on the tabel at all even if I told someone some of them are 3d printed and some are not, without picking them up they would never know. I think I saved about 1/2 of what I would have spent if I purchased the bases instead of printing them.
I think I have more than made up the cost of my $100 investment on the printer and have been reasonably happy with the results. I have never had anyone refuse to play with me because of 3d printed models.
As for the moral concerns, for me the thunderfire is easy, I have no issues with that, I modeled the cannon and the techmarine parts based off of looking at an "original" and then made the 3d model from that so it is no different than scratch building my own version from bit or whatever, I am just using a different media. Now the tank models, I simply downloaded them from someone else, so i don't know the exact source of the model, but I suspect the person who modeled it did it like I did the Thunderfire, so again it is a bit like scratch building, it is just a lot easier to share you work with others. So not exactly stealing, but it probably does tread upon intelectual property a bit.
Assumption: In a couple of years when 3D Printers become ubiquitous (a "good" one allready costs merely 300 USD) and of good quality (no layer lines, the resolution is allready almost good enough), 3D printed models will be 90% of what you see. There are a lot of good 3D artists out there who are putting their work up for free. With a community as huge as dakka, I bet there will be more than enough people who will contribute their own unique models GW can't even put a claim to.
Kosake wrote: Assumption: In a couple of years when 3D Printers become ubiquitous (a "good" one allready costs merely 300 USD) and of good quality (no layer lines, the resolution is allready almost good enough), 3D printed models will be 90% of what you see. There are a lot of good 3D artists out there who are putting their work up for free. With a community as huge as dakka, I bet there will be more than enough people who will contribute their own unique models GW can't even put a claim to.
From what I got told from inside the 3d printing industry this is not very likely to happen. There are already resin printers which allow higher detail, but it seems to be slower, more expensive in terms of 3d printer technology and printing material, making printing with it less attractive. The "regular" printers seem to have reached a physical barrier in terms of layer lines and z-axis stability. If you want to improve quality with that you're talking of industry scale printers, regarding size, ease of usage and especially price. Paying 3k for a printer will be a barrier for most 40k players. It seems that high detail 3d printers will not be available for prices <1k € within quite some years.
So you would have an issue with my 20% GW Guard Army even though everything was painted and WYSIWYG?
Dunno really depends on where we were battling too. I mean if it was in a local club room I probably wouldn't mind as long as they looked the part but I'd probably have a problem if it was say in a proper club because its kind of disrespectful to the group and game. You don't wander around a Nike shoe shop wearing your counterfit 'Mike' shoes
Then again maybe its just that I don't like having to pay full price for gw stuff when someone just prints there stuff out. We must all suffer high prices if we want to play 40k
I'd play against some 3D printed models, mostly because I'm desperate to get ANY games of 40k these days. I'll be honest and say that I would probably not enjoy looking at the army that much, because the quality on most of them are garbage. A vast majority of people couldn't afford a super high quality printer for it anyway, and most models I've seen online are barely passable. I'd rather see proxies most of the time. And that's saying something.
So you would have an issue with my 20% GW Guard Army even though everything was painted and WYSIWYG?
Dunno really depends on where we were battling too. I mean if it was in a local club room I probably wouldn't mind as long as they looked the part but I'd probably have a problem if it was say in a proper club because its kind of disrespectful to the group and game. You don't wander around a Nike shoe shop wearing your counterfit 'Mike' shoes
Then again maybe its just that I don't like having to pay full price for gw stuff when someone just prints there stuff out. We must all suffer high prices if we want to play 40k
Well places that do not want Non-GW Models is what my Space Marine Army fore so it is not that much of an issue.
Funny enough the only time I have an opponent refuse to play me is when I pulled out my old Primer Grey Space Wolves [They were fully based with a 3 color Paint Job] and the guy refused to play me because they were not "Space Wolf Grey" and I would not stop calling them Space Wolves.
I personally have way more issues with "proxy companies", such as Kromlech. And the reason is quite simple: they make money out of it. Their business model consits on copying GW's design and selling proxies. It's legal, and I wouldn't refuse playing anyone using their models, but they are the ones really hurting the company they copy.
CAD is the equivalent of modelling your army with greenstuff, just with the help of a computer and a 3D printer. Anyone designing models for their personal use, that's ok for me.
I think if you can afford a 3d printer, you can instead support your local hobby store and keep the game we love alive.
I generally have no problem with proxies because, maybe you have stuff on order, or it's sitting on your paint table, or you just haven't gotten a chance to buy/convert that model yet - but 3d printing is a different animal to me.
Melevolence wrote: I'd play against some 3D printed models, mostly because I'm desperate to get ANY games of 40k these days. I'll be honest and say that I would probably not enjoy looking at the army that much, because the quality on most of them are garbage. A vast majority of people couldn't afford a super high quality printer for it anyway, and most models I've seen online are barely passable. I'd rather see proxies most of the time. And that's saying something.
I'm on the same boat.
I haven't played for like two months and I have 25.000 points of models that want to be played.
Hell, I've even allowed an opponent to use a tobacco can as a proxy for a Stompa so I could play a game.
Denying an opponent is a luxury that not everyone can afford.
I did not have time to read every single reply here, so I apologize if I am regurgitating the same thing that others have already said, but..
I look at this situation similar to speeding. I am okay with people that speed only a little. 70 miles per hour in a 65, or 40 in a 35. It's no big deal. I imagine most people do it and don't mind if others do it as well
The problem arises when it starts to become reckless and hazardous. If someone is doing 50 in a 25 or 95 in a 55 mile per hour zone, I think most people would be very upset about being put in danger like that.
3d printing is much the same way. A little bit is fine, printing a single unit, or individual pieces, or even a person starting an army with it while they decide if they like the hobby. These things are not hazardous to the hobby or community.
But imagine if a large amount of people started using armies that were 100% printed. Prices would skyrocket. Kits would be expensive, rules would be even more expensive, which would just further propagate the cycle encouraging more people to print, until eventually there would be either no product at all, or a damaged sub-optimal product.
So in my limited scope of viewing, I would say that it varies from situation to situation, and while there may be a lot of gray in the middle, there is definitely black and white on both ends of the spectrum.
I prefer to play against legit GW models, painted and appropriately based. I am generally a polite human being and do not fuss when people show up to participate in warhammer night with something less than what I prefer. I would never refuse to have fun with someone because they didn't follow my internal preferences.
For the person who already voted "no not at all" have a word with yourself would you?!
Why? because people choose something different than you, or because they have their reason to choose no or, you gonna force them to play when they dont like the idea of printed models? you are the one who should have a word with yourself and your single minded ideas.
This is a question similar when they ask about to play with someone with unpainted models, at the end neither answer is wrong, you are in you right to not play with someone whose printed his model, wheterever the reason, but always give your reasons, even its not nescessary to explain why, but always make it in a respectfully way, never insult and respect the way other choose to enjoy the game and hobby, something a lot of people forget, especially in the forum disciosiones.
Short answer: personally, i dont, because i am more a purist in the terms of models, i accept comversions but not models from others game systems, for me it breaks the ambient of the game and the background, at the end is a question of taste. But hey, that does not stop us to talk and even ask you if you can print the models i desing for the game system of my own creation or apreciate the effort put in the models
Anpu42 wrote: I am trying to wrap my head around how some one could be insulted by a 3D Army.
1] It was not cheap.
2] Work had to go into it.
3] If it is painted there was some more work.
It is not like they are bringing out little green army men.
They Put in Time, Money and Work into it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AtomicEngineer wrote: I don't know, depends on how accurate it is. I play warhammer to face warhammer armies not copies. If someone has a stand in army of slightly differently looking 3d printed models I wouldn't feel like I was playing 40k. I'd feel like I was playing some alternative game just using the rules.
But I don't like stand in models either much so I guess its a personal preference (even worse when they sub another model in their army so half way through a game you think your charging a lowly unit when actually its 'supposed' to be a demon prince and you get caked)
So you would have an issue with my 20% GW Guard Army even though everything was painted and WYSIWYG?
Yes, for various reasons and variables:
1. you have a only 20% "official" army, the rest is 3d print, and it takes you only one month to get all the models, then you have all the realeases and strongest units, while the other player, whose whole army is gw, have three years in the hobby and its hard to get the recent realeses, and if he gets one new model, he then spend weeks building and paint it to just reach the table top level, you have the advantage of time.
2. again, a man save, or even a kid, he cant afford a 3w printed, so he has to save a whole month to buy a new model (i dont going to discuss the fairness of cost, this is a hobby and and the buidget comes from the surplus money) then he takes a couple of weeks to build and paint the model to play with it, then you come and in one single night you get the same model, again you have the advantage of time and money.
3. the same man buy his model from the local store, with that money the stroe affort to keep on business and give a space with tables for people that wants to play, then you come, with nothing buy it from the store and the play there, again, you have the advantage of time money and convenience.
Of course this would cause problems to some and infuriate others , and they are in their right to feel in this way
Anpu42 wrote: I am trying to wrap my head around how some one could be insulted by a 3D Army.
1] It was not cheap.
2] Work had to go into it.
3] If it is painted there was some more work.
It is not like they are bringing out little green army men.
They Put in Time, Money and Work into it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AtomicEngineer wrote: I don't know, depends on how accurate it is. I play warhammer to face warhammer armies not copies. If someone has a stand in army of slightly differently looking 3d printed models I wouldn't feel like I was playing 40k. I'd feel like I was playing some alternative game just using the rules.
But I don't like stand in models either much so I guess its a personal preference (even worse when they sub another model in their army so half way through a game you think your charging a lowly unit when actually its 'supposed' to be a demon prince and you get caked)
So you would have an issue with my 20% GW Guard Army even though everything was painted and WYSIWYG?
Yes, for various reasons and variables:
1. you have a only 20% "official" army, the rest is 3d print, and it takes you only one month to get all the models, then you have all the realeases and strongest units, while the other player, whose whole army is gw, have three years in the hobby and its hard to get the recent realeses, and if he gets one new model, he then spend weeks building and paint it to just reach the table top level, you have the advantage of time.
2. again, a man save, or even a kid, he cant afford a 3w printed, so he has to save a whole month to buy a new model (i dont going to discuss the fairness of cost, this is a hobby and and the buidget comes from the surplus money) then he takes a couple of weeks to build and paint the model to play with it, then you come and in one single night you get the same model, again you have the advantage of time and money.
3. the same man buy his model from the local store, with that money the stroe affort to keep on business and give a space with tables for people that wants to play, then you come, with nothing buy it from the store and the play there, again, you have the advantage of time money and convenience.
Of course this would cause problems to some and infuriate others , and they are in their right to feel in this way
I paid more for my Imperial Guard army than most would and they arent GW models. It would have been way easier and faster to just buy those ugly GW Imperial models instead. Would you hate to play me because of that? With no context beyond that, how can you say its immersion breaking?
Also 3d printing takes ages to design the model, then to print it overnight (it took me 6 hours to assemble my reaver titan, assembling GW models is easy), then he painted it, plus he had to buy a computer, printer and material to print it yet you say its easier? If anything it sounds more fun but stupidly expensive. To get even a GW army it would only take a week to have a 1500 point army assembled and ready to play You cant 3d print an army painted. Ultimately it would take longer to 3d print an army than it would to assemble them.
Anpu42 wrote: I am trying to wrap my head around how some one could be insulted by a 3D Army.
1] It was not cheap.
2] Work had to go into it.
3] If it is painted there was some more work.
It is not like they are bringing out little green army men.
They Put in Time, Money and Work into it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AtomicEngineer wrote: I don't know, depends on how accurate it is. I play warhammer to face warhammer armies not copies. If someone has a stand in army of slightly differently looking 3d printed models I wouldn't feel like I was playing 40k. I'd feel like I was playing some alternative game just using the rules.
But I don't like stand in models either much so I guess its a personal preference (even worse when they sub another model in their army so half way through a game you think your charging a lowly unit when actually its 'supposed' to be a demon prince and you get caked)
So you would have an issue with my 20% GW Guard Army even though everything was painted and WYSIWYG?
Yes, for various reasons and variables:
1. you have a only 20% "official" army, the rest is 3d print, and it takes you only one month to get all the models, then you have all the realeases and strongest units, while the other player, whose whole army is gw, have three years in the hobby and its hard to get the recent realeses, and if he gets one new model, he then spend weeks building and paint it to just reach the table top level, you have the advantage of time.
2. again, a man save, or even a kid, he cant afford a 3w printed, so he has to save a whole month to buy a new model (i dont going to discuss the fairness of cost, this is a hobby and and the buidget comes from the surplus money) then he takes a couple of weeks to build and paint the model to play with it, then you come and in one single night you get the same model, again you have the advantage of time and money.
3. the same man buy his model from the local store, with that money the stroe affort to keep on business and give a space with tables for people that wants to play, then you come, with nothing buy it from the store and the play there, again, you have the advantage of time money and convenience.
Of course this would cause problems to some and infuriate others , and they are in their right to feel in this way
1] And if they don't have the Best, they just liked lets say Rough Riders and due to the in ability and looks made an 80% Rough Rider Army of the Printer?
2 &3] They still had to clean them up and paint them. I have been given two armies over the years [Orks and Chaos Marines]. I still have to repair, rebuild and make adjustments to them especially to the 2nd Edition Ork Army, I still worked on them.
As far as the LFGS, I have a physical disability and find it ever difficult to get to my Not-So-FLGS. Most of my Stuff now comes from Amazon and 3rd Party. I did buy a few things form GW, one of them was a Pre-Order Space Wolf Codex that did not get here until after a week after the release that I could have gotten for $20 cheaper on the day of release if I could have made it to a Games Store more than 20 miles away.
For me a 3d Printer is almost a necessity that I have no access to.
anyeri wrote: 1. you have a only 20% "official" army, the rest is 3d print, and it takes you only one month to get all the models, then you have all the realeases and strongest units, while the other player, whose whole army is gw, have three years in the hobby and its hard to get the recent realeses, and if he gets one new model, he then spend weeks building and paint it to just reach the table top level, you have the advantage of time.
2. again, a man save, or even a kid, he cant afford a 3w printed, so he has to save a whole month to buy a new model (i dont going to discuss the fairness of cost, this is a hobby and and the buidget comes from the surplus money) then he takes a couple of weeks to build and paint the model to play with it, then you come and in one single night you get the same model, again you have the advantage of time and money.
You seem to think that building an army is some sort of race.
Someone who has more money than someone else can also build an army faster. Someone who has been collecting for longer will have more models. I'm not really seeing how 'You can build an army faster than someone else' is any sort of reason to not want to play against them.
3. the same man buy his model from the local store, with that money the stroe affort to keep on business and give a space with tables for people that wants to play, then you come, with nothing buy it from the store and the play there, again, you have the advantage of time money and convenience.
Which, of course, only holds true for people who play in stores...
I play against proxies all the time, and those are technically worse because they're not even the correct unit. Heck, I've even played more than one game with a dude who uses star wars minis.
Yes, the ideal is that people would use only nicely converted, beautifully painted GW products, but a vast majority of everybody fails to meet that standard. I don't see why 3D printed stuff, aesthetically, is any different than failing to paint one's models. Well, unless it's a crappy print job.
If anything, I'd prefer a painted print job to a proxy or an unpainted mini. It would be slightly less tacky.
obleeke wrote: I personally have way more issues with "proxy companies", such as Kromlech. And the reason is quite simple: they make money out of it. Their business model consits on copying GW's design and selling proxies. It's legal, and I wouldn't refuse playing anyone using their models, but they are the ones really hurting the company they copy.
CAD is the equivalent of modelling your army with greenstuff, just with the help of a computer and a 3D printer. Anyone designing models for their personal use, that's ok for me.
OFC you can look at it from a different perspective too: why do people buy from 3rd party companies instead foGW? IMO it's usually one of 2 reasons:
-Price. If a 3rd party company manages to offer same quality products at 50-60% of GW price maybe that hints at an issue with GW's pricing policy?
-They offer something GW doesn't. Take Kromlech for example. People don't buy Kromlech orks because they're cheaper (AFAIK they're not), people buy Kromlech orks because they enjoy the WW2 parody aesthetics of the Afrikakorps Orks. Now the ball on this is 100% in GW's court. If people want something it's entirely up to them if they provide it too or they accept the financial loss that comes with people buying what they want elsewhere.
In the end, competition drives a healthy market. If people stop buying for m GW in favor of 3rd party companies is a sign they percieve this companies to offer better value for money than GW.
Yes, for various reasons and variables:
1. you have a only 20% "official" army, the rest is 3d print, and it takes you only one month to get all the models, then you have all the realeases and strongest units, while the other player, whose whole army is gw, have three years in the hobby and its hard to get the recent realeses, and if he gets one new model, he then spend weeks building and paint it to just reach the table top level, you have the advantage of time.
Who forces you to print only strongest stuff? If i had access to a 3-d printer, i'd go for something i'd not buy from gw instead. And if it suddenly shows up to be worth it, i'd go for a buy cause GW quality is undoubtfully better than 3-d print. And the chance of me liking the model are higher this way than if i was proxying it with a tin can.
Things depend on a scale too.
Anywayz, if GW had their product at least 2 times cheaper, noone would even bother with 3-d printing and recasting. And don't tell me that they'd not make the same profit this way cause much more people would be buying and production cost is not that high - it's the development cost that is, but it's a constant number that doesn't grow with the ammount of produced models. Maybe the profit lost cause of easy access to alternative models will somehow be a good thing for gw price policy?..
If the 3d printed models aren't direct copies of GW models, I'd say "go for it".
As Counts-as, or custom models similar enough to be identical game-wise, I'm all for it.
But, blatant rip-offs of GW models would be frowned upon. Why make a model that looks the same as a GW model, when the whole point of 3D printers is to enable creativity to hit the table.
Skinnereal wrote: If the 3d printed models aren't direct copies of GW models, I'd say "go for it".
As Counts-as, or custom models similar enough to be identical game-wise, I'm all for it.
But, blatant rip-offs of GW models would be frowned upon. Why make a model that looks the same as a GW model, when the whole point of 3D printers is to enable creativity to hit the table.
Wysiwyg. If has to be somewhat recognizable. You don't have to follow GW in every detail, but a Rhino should resemble a rhino and a Leman Russ should look like a Leman Russ, not like a chimera with a bigger turret.
Honestly, a large chunk of GW stock model range is either very plain (rhinos), ugly (bloodthirster), technically unsound (the flying brick of the marines) or all of these combined (taurox). If I were to print these units, I'd add some decoration and change some design features anyways.
Kosake wrote: Assumption: In a couple of years when 3D Printers become ubiquitous (a "good" one allready costs merely 300 USD) and of good quality (no layer lines, the resolution is allready almost good enough), 3D printed models will be 90% of what you see. There are a lot of good 3D artists out there who are putting their work up for free. With a community as huge as dakka, I bet there will be more than enough people who will contribute their own unique models GW can't even put a claim to.
From what I got told from inside the 3d printing industry this is not very likely to happen. There are already resin printers which allow higher detail, but it seems to be slower, more expensive in terms of 3d printer technology and printing material, making printing with it less attractive. The "regular" printers seem to have reached a physical barrier in terms of layer lines and z-axis stability. If you want to improve quality with that you're talking of industry scale printers, regarding size, ease of usage and especially price. Paying 3k for a printer will be a barrier for most 40k players. It seems that high detail 3d printers will not be available for prices <1k € within quite some years.
Even if what you say is right - and I am very confident that there will be technical solutions to z-axis stability and layers etc. soon enough - there will still be print-shops with high-grade printers offering a print of your models for cheap. Cheaper than GW models in any case. And cost of "ink" for 3Ds will go down invariably, it's just a question of optimizing the polymers for the intended use and economy of scale.
Yes, for various reasons and variables:
1. you have a only 20% "official" army, the rest is 3d print, and it takes you only one month to get all the models, then you have all the realeases and strongest units, while the other player, whose whole army is gw, have three years in the hobby and its hard to get the recent realeses, and if he gets one new model, he then spend weeks building and paint it to just reach the table top level, you have the advantage of time.
2. again, a man save, or even a kid, he cant afford a 3w printed, so he has to save a whole month to buy a new model (i dont going to discuss the fairness of cost, this is a hobby and and the buidget comes from the surplus money) then he takes a couple of weeks to build and paint the model to play with it, then you come and in one single night you get the same model, again you have the advantage of time and money.
3. the same man buy his model from the local store, with that money the stroe affort to keep on business and give a space with tables for people that wants to play, then you come, with nothing buy it from the store and the play there, again, you have the advantage of time money and convenience.
Of course this would cause problems to some and infuriate others , and they are in their right to feel in this way
But....isn't warhammer a hobby of patience? I thought the whole point was taking your time, building your force and painting them up to a good standard to play. Its not about speed, its not a race to the finish its the ride. Its waiting for the new release, getting it and taking your time to finish it. Having the ability to just sit and watch a computer print out a copy of an official product months in advance takes something away from the fun of going down to your local to pick up your new model.
And not to mention not supporting your local group with buying from there to keep the gaming room running but still showing up with your copy army to use their facility to game is just abit of a dick move.
AtomicEngineer wrote: And not to mention not supporting your local group with buying from there to keep the gaming room running but still showing up with your copy army to use their facility to game is just abit of a dick move.
I don't know if I would go that far, but Having part of your Army Printed would be ok in my opinion.
Devil's Advocate: What if you just moved to the area and showed up with your army bought in your previous Game Store that you were happy with and played without buying any new Models?
I would rather they were nicely painted but it doesnt make a huge difference to me, as long as it helps avoid something like this: http://www.tsoalr.com/comics/2003-10-09-012_soda.gif I would be much happier.
At then end of the day I would rather have played and had fun.
For all the people arguing that its illegal to 3d print models for your own use you're 100% wrong.
It would be entirely illegal if that person then turned around and sold them for profit, but for your own use there is nothing in the law preventing you from doing so as the law states that infringement was committed if the material was produced "for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain"
The only other limit is you cant produce any more than $1000 of copyrighted material in 180 days (though if you're cranking out that many CAD models then you have a problem....) (Also there really wouldn't be any way for anyone to track that....)
You don't even have to 3d print them, you could recast models for your own use as long as you stay within those restrictions above.
I'd have zero problem playing against anyone using a 3d print.
Also to all those people throwing around $3000 as a figure for a 3d printer, you're years out of date. You can get a crappy 3d printer now for under $200 if you look around enough, and $500 gets you a pretty decent setup.
Not one that will handle the level of detail on some of the smaller models, but certainly one that can handle angular vehicles and terrain, and thats today. 3d printers are advancing at an astounding pace.
Terrain is great for 3D printers. Layer-lines aren't a problem when the model is laid horizontally.
Also, detail is usually less than on a person or vehicle.
Buildings would go well. You can printed vents, air-con units, etc.
Hills and things though, scratch-build instead.
Skinnereal wrote: Terrain is great for 3D printers. Layer-lines aren't a problem when the model is laid horizontally.
Also, detail is usually less than on a person or vehicle.
Buildings would go well. You can printed vents, air-con units, etc.
Hills and things though, scratch-build instead.
...and what if you print models horizontally either? Can it solve anything?
I've had no hands-on with a printer, but I expect printing a model on its back could work.
Vertical lines might be less of an issue than the more obvious horizontal.
I was meaning that printing a hut from the ground up would look like it was built that way. People aren't, and look odd with bands around them.
I'm indifferent enough towards GW that if my opponent showed up with unassembled plastic sprues covered in the blood stains of the redshirt he stabbed to steal them from, I'd probably just shrug and still play.
But....isn't warhammer a hobby of patience? I thought the whole point was taking your time, building your force and painting them up to a good standard to play. Its not about speed, its not a race to the finish its the ride. Its waiting for the new release, getting it and taking your time to finish it. Having the ability to just sit and watch a computer print out a copy of an official product months in advance takes something away from the fun of going down to your local to pick up your new model.
That assertion raises a lot of questions. What about people who get armies off Ebay, or who get them commission painted? Heck, what about people who don't like painting, or who are good at it, but paint at a really slow pace? Or would people who paint really fast have to wait to properly appreciate their miniatures before putting them on the table?
Ive been scratchbuilding for years, but ive recently got a £400 3d printer, so I thought Id see if it was possible to print a land raider
Its not perfect, bit its also possible to remove some of the lines using an acetone vapour bath.
It did also take 9 hours, but only cost a few quid in materials.
That depends. What 3d printed models are we talking about? Were they designed by the players? Did they just print several parts to get a unique look for their models? If so, sure, I wouldnt have a problem with it. But if it's a printed copy of somebody else's models (be it GW or somebody else's without their permission) then no. It's the same as recasting in my book, which I consider stealing. Me playing against them would mean I condone or willing to look away such behaviour, which I do not. So no, not at all.
montrano wrote: Ive been scratchbuilding for years, but ive recently got a £400 3d printer, so I thought Id see if it was possible to print a land raider
Its not perfect, bit its also possible to remove some of the lines using an acetone vapour bath.
It did also take 9 hours, but only cost a few quid in materials.
More power to your elbow, that one looks quite smart.
Is the Marine just for scale or being intentionally run over?
montrano wrote: Ive been scratchbuilding for years, but ive recently got a £400 3d printer, so I thought Id see if it was possible to print a land raider
Its not perfect, bit its also possible to remove some of the lines using an acetone vapour bath.
It did also take 9 hours, but only cost a few quid in materials.
I'm actually more interested in a better look at that Nurgley Minotaur looking thing in the background, or at least an ID?
montrano wrote: Ive been scratchbuilding for years, but ive recently got a £400 3d printer, so I thought Id see if it was possible to print a land raider
Its not perfect, bit its also possible to remove some of the lines using an acetone vapour bath.
It did also take 9 hours, but only cost a few quid in materials.
I'm actually more interested in a better look at that Nurgley Minotaur looking thing in the background, or at least an ID?
I think the marine just happened to be on my desk at the time, but I spun him round to be run over.
Ah, cool, thanks, it was good a I asked because it took me to the Maxmini site and reminded me of all the cool stuff they make!
Also, the fact you have a £60+ model in frame with a 3D printed Land Raider suggests you haven't printed the Land Raider just for finanical reasons, would that be fair to say?
If there is a new unit out and I or someone else wants to try it I don't care if they use a piece of paper with the unit name on it stuck onto a base with a some idea of height etc. I've done this many times. I have a large model collection and it's all painted, but I play games, the modeling is an added dimension that is totally up to each player. 3D printed models are a great idea, I just hope it doesn't lead long term to them focusing profiteering on black library were they have complete control on the IP.
As far as Im concerned, they can 3D print everything they wanna print. play it. No problem. As long as they look decent, who cares, EXCEPT GW?
This wouldnt even be a discussion if GW had been more far sighted and more market share oriented. But they arent. So i love their game, I wanna keep playing it and if someone needs to do that in order to play, so be it.
Jancoran wrote: As far as Im concerned, they can 3D print everything they wanna print. play it. No problem. As long as they look decent, who cares, EXCEPT GW?
This wouldnt even be a discussion if GW had been more far sighted and more market share oriented. But they arent. So i love their game, I wanna keep playing it and if someone needs to do that in order to play, so be it.
Just wait until 3D becomes really commonplace. Once everyone and their neighbour starts throwing around custom models that aren't even copies of GW but stuff that looks similar enough for WYSWYG, they'll be asked quite a lot of questions why their 100g of plastics costs 50€ while you can get a kilogram of 3D print plastics for 12€.
Oh it's of no concern now. the Pandoras box has been opened and GW has opened it personally.
So since they dont value market share like they should have, they must now contend with this. And Im fine with that. If they become nothing more than a publisher of rules, boy... That stock price is going to plummet. better get out now while you can.
BTW i am not a GW hater. I love their models, love their game and plan to play it for a rEALLY long time if i can. So I am more stating fact than being damning. They really have brought this on themselves.
, and they are in their right to feel in this way
