Well this is a show that premiered last night on TV each episode will be about a certain member during the situation leading up to, during and after, so far what I saw that kid deserved a good spanking and then some, and the parents should be shot for being such idiots in how they raised him. as to the slapping, lets face it, it was a slap and not a hard one and the kid kicked him first after almost hitting the guys kid with a baseball bat.
the child is spoiled and will only bear rotten fruit.
Slapping get your kid is a traumatic experience for a child, and anyone that does it should not be allowed to parent.
I thought we moved past this babarism.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Slapping get your kid is a traumatic experience for a child, and anyone that does it should not be allowed to parent.
I thought we moved past this babarism.
trust me if you watched the show you would have been tempted to slap the kid, hell his mother still breasts feed him
hotsauceman1 wrote: At three? So whahaat. and, you never slap a kid, ever especially one that is not yours
don't think he was 3 if so a big 3 year old, especially one that was swinging a bat at his kid, kicking his leg, throwing records around and tearing up plants, while the parents were effectively not doing much.
I may have not slapped that kid but family or not would have told them to get the "bleep" out of my house
Still, you never strike a child. There are better ways to parent then force. Also, the book said he was 3. I guess you can't get a good 3 yr old actor.
And you would be damn sure if someone hit my kid, I would sue them from house and home
hotsauceman1 wrote: Still, you never strike a child. There are better ways to parent then force. Also, the book said he was 3. I guess you can't get a good 3 yr old actor.
And you would be damn sure if someone hit my kid, I would sue them from house and home
Kid, have some kids of your own before you start telling others how to parent.
Shh twas, the old, you can't comment because you never did it.
Boo, hitting your kids is wrong, especially on the head where it can cause damage. There is a reason cps exist
And hitting other peoples kids is wrong.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Still, you never strike a child. There are better ways to parent then force. Also, the book said he was 3. I guess you can't get a good 3 yr old actor. And you would be damn sure if someone hit my kid, I would sue them from house and home
Kid, have some kids of your own before you start telling others how to parent.
In his defense I'm in complete agreement with someone hitting my family.
"A man was eaten alive today but what can only be described as a herd of wiener dogs led by a gorilla dressed in a Hawaiian shirt"
hotsauceman1 wrote: Shh twas, the old, you can't comment because you never did it.
Boo, hitting your kids is wrong, especially on the head where it can cause damage. There is a reason cps exist
And hitting other peoples kids is wrong.
There is a reason CPS exists. It's not for what people commonly confuse it for though.
I've had CPS called on my family twice. Both times it was found to be bogus claims, and the 2nd time it happened, said person who called us got in trouble for it.
I presume it's about punishing children through skelping/spanking/smacking?
On another note the people that go on to these kind of programs with their family problems are 100% scum.
It is not reality TV. It is a DRAMA. It is a Series based off a Australian Series based off a book.
The long and the short of it is a bunch of people are at a picnic. There is a misbehaving child which is attacking other children with a baseball bat. A parent of another child sees his child at risk and steps in to protect his child. When he does, the attacker child begins to attack him where upon he SLAPS the kid.
The series is an individual episode for each person there and seeing the event (and the aftermath) through their eyes. So the kid being attacked gets a whole episode, the parents of the bad kid get an episode, the person doing the slap gets an episode. You get to see all the angles and points of view via a DRAMA series. Basically think Law and Order where you see one version via the opposing council, one from the defendant, one from the victims family and so on.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Still, you never strike a child. There are better ways to parent then force. Also, the book said he was 3. I guess you can't get a good 3 yr old actor.
And you would be damn sure if someone hit my kid, I would sue them from house and home
Kid, have some kids of your own before you start telling others how to parent.
In his defense I'm in complete agreement with someone hitting my family.
"A man was eaten alive today but what can only be described as a herd of wiener dogs led by a gorilla dressed in a Hawaiian shirt"
Oh totally, a man will learn what his fist tastes like if that were to happen. Granted, I raise my children in such a manner that no reasonable man would ever feel the need to step in as an authoritative figure. I was referring more towards the opening comments of his.
I presume it's about punishing children through skelping/spanking/smacking?
On another note the people that go on to these kind of programs with their family problems are 100% scum.
It is not reality TV. It is a DRAMA. It is a Series based off a Australian Series based off a book.
The long and the short of it is a bunch of people are at a picnic. There is a misbehaving child which is attacking other children with a baseball bat. A parent of another child sees his child at risk and steps in to protect his child. When he does, the attacker child begins to attack him where upon he SLAPS the kid.
The series is an individual episode for each person there and seeing the event (and the aftermath) through their eyes. So the kid being attacked gets a whole episode, the parents of the bad kid get an episode, the person doing the slap gets an episode. You get to see all the angles and points of view via a DRAMA series. Basically think Law and Order where you see one version via the opposing council, one from the defendant, one from the victims family and so on.
So it's scripted? It's actually a drama, and not even pretending to be reality?
Bottom line is, you don't hit kids. It doesn't teach them anything, it merely gives you an outlet for your own frustrations. I've got kids - they drive you nuts, but if you don't have control, what hope is there for them to learn it?
Besides, there are far more productive teaching methods, like changing the wifi password or removal of phone chargers. =P
Delakar wrote: So it's scripted? It's actually a drama, and not even pretending to be reality?
Bottom line is, you don't hit kids. It doesn't teach them anything, it merely gives you an outlet for your own frustrations. I've got kids - they drive you nuts, but if you don't have control, what hope is there for them to learn it?
Besides, there are far more productive teaching methods, like changing the wifi password or removal of phone chargers. =P
It was never pretending to be a reality TV show. It is not trying to teach anything. It is basically showing all the different sides of an issue from multiple points of views. I am sure if another kid smashed your child's head in with a baseball bat and gave him life-long brain damage that 'removing wifi access' would not console you one bit.
Poorly raised kid meets hot-head protective parent = everyone loses, hence the point of the show... No matter your personal beliefs you will like someone and hate someone else, and it will be different for every viewer.
Asterios wrote: Well this is a show that premiered last night on TV each episode will be about a certain member during the situation leading up to, during and after, so far what I saw that kid deserved a good spanking and then some, and the parents should be shot for being such idiots in how they raised him. as to the slapping, lets face it, it was a slap and not a hard one and the kid kicked him first after almost hitting the guys kid with a baseball bat.
the child is spoiled and will only bear rotten fruit.
whats your thoughts on this controversial show?
You didn't really do a good job presenting what the show was about. I had to watch the trailer. I'm going to be holding that against you for some time. The causing me to have to watch the trailer part.
I... I don't think anything I saw in that trailer reflected how I've seen human beings act in reality, which is not to say that all human beings DO act as if they are a part of reality, but still. Wow.
Do yourselves a favor: Turn it off and go DO something.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Shh twas, the old, you can't comment because you never did it.
Boo, hitting your kids is wrong, especially on the head where it can cause damage. There is a reason cps exist
And hitting other peoples kids is wrong.
problem is when even spanking your child for doing wrong, is breaking the law, I'm not advocating beating a child, but a firm hand must be taken when raising children, when you have 12 and 13 year olds killing people now a days, you have to wonder if a hands off approach is worth it, and yes several instances of 13 year olds killing people, and these kids were raised in a enlightenment way too (no spankings or slappings), and that's just in my town, things are getting ugly all over, and seriously taking away a kids wifi doesn't do anything, they just go to a friends or McDonalds or any place and get free wifi.
furthermore the slap depicted in the show, was only enough to leave a red mark, not cause any form of injury.
Ehm...so...what is thet show's point? The trailer pretty much is the show in a nutshell...it raises a conflict and that's about it. To me, it looks like a "Look at me, I am edgy!" show with little plot.
...and don't say "You never hit a child!". It's just a wrong statement. There are situations where hitting a child is perfectly viable - and those situations are extremely scarce (fortunately...) at the same time. Like, if a kid is armed and about to inflict harm on others, then yes, physical force is absolutely fine in order to avoid any consequences.
Sigvatr wrote: Ehm...so...what is thet show's point? The trailer pretty much is the show in a nutshell...it raises a conflict and that's about it. To me, it looks like a "Look at me, I am edgy!" show with little plot.
pretty much, its a show about a controversial topic to make it water cooler talk.
That sounds about right. It's enough, just on face value alone, to get people all fired up and aggressive (see this thread) but in terms of substance, it's hard to see them doing much with it. Now, it is possible they COULD by showing how complex the situation is, and how there is no room for a 100% clear black-and-white standing and all that, but this is network TV, that ain't gonna happen.
curran12 wrote: That sounds about right. It's enough, just on face value alone, to get people all fired up and aggressive (see this thread) but in terms of substance, it's hard to see them doing much with it. Now, it is possible they COULD by showing how complex the situation is, and how there is no room for a 100% clear black-and-white standing and all that, but this is network TV, that ain't gonna happen.
No, the meat of it is you find out a bunch of horrible things about the people all because of the legal action taken.
Spoiler:
The Slapper was having an affair with a teenager.
The affair person lied about being raped as payback for ending the affair.
The Mother of the slapped child was negligent and left the child home unattended to go hook up in hotels and it is all brought out in court.
The wife of the slapper knows the husband of the slapped child has a history of domestic violence and is probably beating the wife leading to misbehaving child.
Seeing the political sway of the family politics as the family mostly backs the Slapper.
A lot of issues about domestic abuse, cheating, airing dirty laundry in court and so on so seeing all the different 'sides' to this shows no one is good or bad. Pretty much everyone is awful.
Not sure if the series is good or not, the book was boring and kinda dumb. I basically didn't care about anyone, thought they were all monsters and just needed to finish it to see everyone was a POS.
Asterios wrote: problem is when even spanking your child for doing wrong, is breaking the law, I'm not advocating beating a child, but a firm hand must be taken when raising children, when you have 12 and 13 year olds killing people now a days, you have to wonder if a hands off approach is worth it, and yes several instances of 13 year olds killing people, and these kids were raised in a enlightenment way too (no spankings or slappings), and that's just in my town
And yet violence in general and violent crime in specific has been declining for generations. Murders, robberies, assaults, you name it, there's a lot less of it now. If you look at that compared to the fact corporal punishment has been similarly going out of favor, it's hard to reconcile the idea that "hitting your kids is an effective means of deterring crime" with what the reality has shown.
I'm in the camp that hitting your kids doesn't teach them discipline, it only teaches them to fear you; and that violence is an acceptable solution.
hotsauceman1 wrote:Slapping get your kid is a traumatic experience for a child, and anyone that does it should not be allowed to parent.
I thought we moved past this babarism.
I was slapped a couple times when I was out of line by both my parents. I turned out just fine because it was explained why I was slapped by my parents afterwards.
Ouze wrote:
Asterios wrote: problem is when even spanking your child for doing wrong, is breaking the law, I'm not advocating beating a child, but a firm hand must be taken when raising children, when you have 12 and 13 year olds killing people now a days, you have to wonder if a hands off approach is worth it, and yes several instances of 13 year olds killing people, and these kids were raised in a enlightenment way too (no spankings or slappings), and that's just in my town
And yet violence in general and violent crime in specific has been declining for generations. Murders, robberies, assaults, you name it, there's a lot less of it now. If you look at that compared to the fact corporal punishment has been similarly going out of favor, it's hard to reconcile the idea that "hitting your kids is an effective means of deterring crime" with what the reality has shown.
I'm in the camp that hitting your kids doesn't teach them discipline, it only teaches them to fear you; and that violence is an acceptable solution.
I think in some situations yes it does teach fear but as I said above, when it was explained after the fact that it wasn’t just fear that was instilled in me but respect for my parents as well. With that being said I only was ever slapped once or twice becasue I learned very quickly not to act that way again.
Look. There is nothing wrong with slapping your children. Beating and slapping are two very different things.
Discipline is a necessary part of raising a child. And if verbal warnings don't work, then slap will suffice.
When I lived in Lebanon, an entire school of over a thousand pupils was kept in line by one man with a cane. Did it help? Damn straight, no bullying, no truancy, no misbehaving of any kind.
hotsauceman1 wrote: The book touched on the problems of raising a kid in an multicultural and varied enviroments
So you've read the book?
Care to share with us how it approaches the topics and the multiple points of view?
No, I read up on reviews of the book, from what I read, it is very Australian. And touched Aussie problems so IM guessing things got lost in translation.
I don't hit my kid. And no one else better hit my kid. Things would get very ugly very quickly, without question. And i'm not talking about getting physical (as that will just get me arrested). I'm talking making that persons life fething miserable with the full extent of the law humanly possible. Pressing charges. Restraining order. Possible civil suit if necessary. Calls to local news agencies.
Let me handle my kid, thanks.
That said, i am the first person to react when my kid shows even a glimmer of a hint of acting up ; to the point where most often i just have to look at my kid, and he calms right down. I get compliments on how well behaved he is. I have on a couple of occasions of dire need brought him to work, sat him at a desk in my office, and he's been content to quietly draw when I can't show him what i do for work, etc., never making a peep.
Parent your kids, people. You can do it without slapping the gak out of them.
And before anyone gets all asshurt about my stance on this, in my state, even slapping a kid on the face or the butt is technically child abuse. The laws are very clear. If that's not something you like, don't live in this state.
Watching the trailer, I have a question, at one point, an adult says he deserved it.
Does that mean that if I think some adult needs to get hit I should do it free of consequences? Why are kids the only ones it is OK to hit if they misbehave?
Asterios wrote: problem is when even spanking your child for doing wrong, is breaking the law, I'm not advocating beating a child, but a firm hand must be taken when raising children, when you have 12 and 13 year olds killing people now a days, you have to wonder if a hands off approach is worth it, and yes several instances of 13 year olds killing people, and these kids were raised in a enlightenment way too (no spankings or slappings), and that's just in my town
And yet violence in general and violent crime in specific has been declining for generations. Murders, robberies, assaults, you name it, there's a lot less of it now. If you look at that compared to the fact corporal punishment has been similarly going out of favor, it's hard to reconcile the idea that "hitting your kids is an effective means of deterring crime" with what the reality has shown.
I'm in the camp that hitting your kids doesn't teach them discipline, it only teaches them to fear you; and that violence is an acceptable solution.
May I ask in what fantasy world you live in? seriously, when I'm seeing more and more kids well under 18 killing others, and this is documented as increasing, furthermore murders have been increasing, so I repeat in what country do you live that what you said is true?
hotsauceman1 wrote: The U.S. the only reason you are thinking that is true is because we are more exposed to it now, Violent crime has gone down.
actually according to the FBI underage violent crime has increased steadily over the years.
Also I live in Stockton California so don't tell me violent crime is dropping cause I will call BS on that.
oh yes, because one small area is indicative of the country. Take a research class one of these days
its not just here either, but go ahead and believe the NYtimes all you want, I had to laugh when I saw that one.
but as it goes I've lived here for over 40 years and I've seen crime expand and violent crime increase, are you saying I'm in a unique vortex which defies logic? or that the surrounding cities are in that same vortex? are we in the twilight zone? or shall we talk about columbine and other school massacres? seeing as how they were all the fad 30 years or so ago. and school shootings have been reducing.
So you are saying stockton, an entire city known for crime is more indicative of the nation's woes then the official FBE crime statistics?
Someone needs to learn to think critically.
Asterios wrote: but as it goes I've lived here for over 40 years and I've seen crime expand and violent crime increase, are you saying I'm in a unique vortex which defies logic?
I'm saying your local anecdotal evidence doesn't translate to the rest of the country at large, an idea that isn't especially complex. "I just ate a sandwich, so we solved world hunger" would be the shorthand.
Asterios wrote: or shall we talk about columbine and other school massacres? seeing as how they were all the fad 30 years or so ago
Funny you should say that. Are you truly ignorant of the fact that the deadliest school shooting in this country was up until recently in 1966? And in fact, to circle back to the thought that corporal punishment somehow reduces criminality, that shooter was physically disciplined by his father? This would be in the 40s, mind you.
Asterios wrote: but as it goes I've lived here for over 40 years and I've seen crime expand and violent crime increase, are you saying I'm in a unique vortex which defies logic?
I'm saying your local anecdotal evidence doesn't translate to the rest of the country at large, an idea that isn't especially complex. "I just ate a sandwich, so we solved world hunger" would be the shorthand.
oh i'm not saying the arrest rate is not lower (you do realize that's the link you gave was for arrest rate?) but also for crime committed by children 16 and under has increased furthermore, some of the most horrendous murders, did not lead to an arrest. tell me how many multiple shootings in schools occurred in the 60's? 70's? 80's? 90's? 2000's? 2010's? you'll notice that number drastically increased. also in all those school shootings how many of those kids were arrested?
hotsauceman1 wrote: One little anecdotal evidence like school shootings do it mean we have become more violent
considering 20 - 30 years ago they were unheard of but now are going off too much as of late, yes it does mean we are becoming more violent, because kids are no longer learning that each action comes with an equal or greater reaction, and I've seen the effects of both types of raising children as of lately and what happens, I've seen a child raised with punishments doing good and a child raised with a its not your fault attitude grow up to be a rapist and such, so yes, I can also speak from experience and knowledge on that, can you?
Asterios wrote: considering 20 - 30 years ago they were unheard of
Seriously, you have no idea what you are talking about and you need to google a little before you post. There were an average of like 2 school shootings a year between 1900 and 1920. 20 years ago was 1995, a year that saw 3 school shootings. 30 years ago was 1985, a year that saw 6.
It sounds stupid I don't approve. Don't beat your kids punish them by making do choirs or work on a farm. Nothing is worse then shoveling cow gak for a couple hours. Gives you time to think and learn from you mistakes.
Asterios wrote: considering 20 - 30 years ago they were unheard of
Seriously, you have no idea what you are talking about and you need to google a little before you post. There were an average of like 2 school shootings a year between 1900 and 1920.
quick, move the goalposts somewhere else!
really school shootings committed by kids where more then one student was killed, where is your evidence? I'm calling you out, show up or shut up.
also i'm not talking adults, or accidents, or suicide but intentional shooting of others by kids, better go check your facts before responding.
and you didn't read what I wrote, I know all about those schools shootings and not all in a kids school or even committed by kids, and most of those that were were accidents or suicide if any, you lost sight of the goal post.
Asterios wrote: really school shootings committed by kids where more then one student was killed, where is your evidence? I'm calling you out, show up or shut up.
also i'm not talking adults, or accidents, or suicide but intentional shooting of others by kids, better go check your facts before responding.
So now we're redefining what constitutes a "school shooting" and again moving the goalposts some more. I see how this is going, and virtually anything I can do tonight is better that playing logic calvinball with you.
Asterios wrote: really school shootings committed by kids where more then one student was killed, where is your evidence? I'm calling you out, show up or shut up.
also i'm not talking adults, or accidents, or suicide but intentional shooting of others by kids, better go check your facts before responding.
So now we're redefining what constitutes a "school shooting" and again moving the goalposts some more. I see how this is going, and virtually anything I can do tonight is better that playing logic calvinball with you.
no it is about violence amongst kids, and I just checked, only 2 incidents involved minors(17 and younger) as the shooters in a school during school hours, from 1900 - 1920 this does not include those that were accidents (which were quite a few) or those committed by adults (which were a lot).
you never saw the goal post thru your rose colored glasses.
Since it seems like he refused to follow the link, there's a similar list from a different source, quoted:
1700s
The earliest known United States shooting to happen on school property was the Pontiac's Rebellion school massacre on July 26, 1764, where four Lenape American Indian entered the schoolhouse near present-day Greencastle, Pennsylvania, shot and killed schoolmaster Enoch Brown, and killed nine or ten children (reports vary). Only two children survived.[17]
[edit] 1800s
• November 2, 1853 Louisville, Kentucky A student, Matthew Ward, bought a self-cocking pistol in the morning, went to school and killed Schoolmaster Mr. Butler for excessively punishing his brother the day before. Even though he shot the Schoolmaster point blank in front of his classmates, he was acquitted.[18]
An April 30, 1866 editorial in the New York Times argued against students carrying pistols, citing "...pistols being dropped on the floor at balls or being exploded in very inconvenient ways. A boy of 12 has his pantaloons made with a pistol pocket; and this at a boarding-school filled with boys, who, we suppose, do or wish to do the same thing. We would advise parents to look into it, and learn whether shooting is to be a part of the scholastic course which may be practiced on their boys; or else we advise them to see that their own boys are properly armed with the most approved and deadly-pistol, and that there may be an equal chance at least of their shooting as of being shot."[19]
• June 8, 1867 New York City At Public School No. 18, a 13 year old lad brought a pistol loaded and capped, without the knowledge of his parents or school-teachers, and shot and injured a fellow classmate.[20]
• December 22, 1868 Chattanooga, Tennessee A boy who refused to be whipped and left school, returned with his brother and a friend, the next day to seek revenge on his teacher. Not finding the teacher at the school, they continued to his house, where a gun battle rang out, leaving three dead. Only the brother survived.[21]
• March 9, 1873 Salisbury, Maryland After school as Miss Shockley was walking with four small children, she was approached by a Mr. Hall and shot. The Schoolmaster ran out, but she was dead instantly. Hall threw himself under a train that night.[22]
• May 24, 1879 Lancaster, New York As the carriage loaded with female students was pulling out of the school's stables, Frank Shugart a telegraph operator shot and severely injured Mr. Carr, Superintendent of the stables.[23]
• March 6, 1884 Boston, Massachusetts As news of Jesse James reached the east coast, young kids started to act in the same manner. An article from the New York Times reads, "Another "Jesse James" Gang - "Word was brought to the Fifth Police Station to-night that a number of boys were using the Concord-street School-house for some unknown purpose, and a posse of officers was sent to investigate. The gang scattered at the approach of the police, and in their flight on drew a revolver and fired at Officer Rowan, without effect, however. William Nangle, age 14, and Sidney Duncan, age 12, were captured, but the other five or six escaped, among them the one who who did the shooting. The boys refused to disclose the object of their meeting, but it is thought that another "Jesse James" organization has been broken up."[24]
• March 15, 1884 Gainsville, Georgia In the middle of the day, a group of very drunk Jackson County farmers left the Jug Tavern drinking and shooting their revolvers as they headed down the street driving people into their homes. As they approached the female academy, the girls fled the schoolyard into the school where the gang followed swearing and shooting, firing several rounds into the front door. No one was hurt.[25]
• July 4, 1886 Charleston, South Carolina During Sunday school, Emma Connelly shot and killed John Steedley for "circulating slanderous reports" about her, even though her brother publicly whipped him a few days earlier.[26]
• April 12, 1887 Watertown, New York Edwin Bush, a student a the Potsdam Normal School committed suicide by shooting himself in the head.[27]
• June 12, 1887 Cleveland, Tennessee Will Guess went to the school and fatally shot Miss Irene Fann, his little sister's teacher, for whipping her the day before.[28]
• June 13, 1889 New Brunswick, New Jersey Charles Crawford upset over an argument with a school Trustee, went up to the window and fired a pistol into a crowded school room. The bullet lodged in the wall just above the teacher's head.[29]
The first known mass shooting in the U.S. where students were shot, was on April 9, 1891, when 70 year old, James Foster fired a shotgun at a group of students in the playground of St. Mary's Parochial School, Newburgh, New York, causing minor injuries to several of the students.[30] The majority of attacks during this time period by students on other students or teacher, usually involved stabbing with knives, or hitting with stones.
[edit] 1900–1930s
There are very seldom reports of mass or multiple school shootings during the first three decades of the 20th Century, with the three most violent attacks on schools involving either arson or explosions.
February 26, 1902 Camargo, Illinois teacher Fletcher R. Barnett shot and killed another teacher, Eva C. Wiseman, in front of her class at a school near Camargo, Illinois. After shooting at a pupil who came to help Miss Wiseman and wounding himself in a failed suicide attempt he waited in the classroom until a group of farmers came to lynch him. He then ran out of the school building, grabbed a shotgun from one of the farmers and shot himself, before running away and leaping into a well where he finally drowned. The incident was likely sparked by Wiseman's refusal to marry Barnett.
February 24, 1903 Inman, South Carolina Edward Foster, a 17-year-old student at Inman High school, was shot and fatally wounded by his teacher Reuben Pitts after he had jerked a rod from Pitts' hands to resist punishment. According to the teacher, Foster struck the pistol Pitts had drawn to defend himself, thus causing its discharge. Pitts was later acquitted of murder.
October 10, 1906 Cleveland, Ohio Harry Smith shot and killed 22-year-old teacher Mary Shepard at South Euclid School after she had rejected him. Smith escaped and committed suicide in a barn near his home two hours later.
March 23, 1907 Carmi, Illinois George Nicholson shot and killed John Kurd at a schoolhouse outside of Carmi, Illinois during a school rehearsal. The motive for the shooting was Kurd making a disparaging remark about Nicholson's daughter during her recital.
March 11, 1908 Boston, Massachusetts Elizabeth Bailey Hardee was shot to death by Sarah Chamberlain Weed at the Laurens School, a finishing school in Boston. Weed then turned the gun on herself and committed suicide.
April 15, 1908 Asheville, North Carolina Dr. C. O. Swinney shot and fatally wounded his 16-year-old daughter Nellie in a reception room at Normal and Collegiate Institute. He then committed suicide by shooting himself in the head.
February 12, 1909 San Francisco, California 10-year-old Dorothy Malakanoff was shot and killed by 49-year-old Demetri Tereaschinko as she arrived at her school in San Francisco. Tereaschinko then shot himself in a failed suicide attempt. Tereaschinko was reportedly upset that Malakanoff refused to elope with him.
January 10, 1912 Warrenville, Illinois Sylvester E. Adams shot and killed teacher Edith Smith after she rejected his advances. Adams then shot and killed himself. The incident took place in a schoolhouse about a mile outside of Warrenville after the students had been dismissed for the day.
March 27, 1919 Lodi Township, Michigan 19-year-old teacher Irma Casler was shot and killed in her classroom at Rentschler school in Lodi Township, Michigan by Robert Warner, apparently because she had rejected his advances.
April 2, 1921 Syracuse, New York Professor Holmes Beckwith shot and killed dean J. Herman Wharton in his office at Syracuse University before committing suicide.
May 18, 1927 Bath, Michigan School treasurer Andrew Kehoe, after killing his wife and destroying his house and farm, blew up the Bath Consolidated School by detonating dynamite in the basement of the school, killing 38 people, mostly children. He then pulled up to the school in his Ford car, then blew the car up, killing himself and four others. Only one shot was fired in order to detonate dynamite in the car. This was deadliest act of mass murder at a school in the United States.
February 15, 1933 Downey, California Dr. Vernon Blythe shot and killed his wife Eleanor, as well as his 8-year old son Robert at Gallatin grammar school and committed suicide after firing three more shots at his other son Vernon. His wife, who had been a teacher at the school, had filed for divorce the week before.
September 14, 1934 Gill, Massachusetts. Headmaster Elliott Speer was murdered by a shotgun blast through the window of his study at Northfield Mount Hermon School. The crime was never solved.
December 12, 1935 New York City, New York, Victor Koussow, a Russian laboratory worker at the School of Dental and Oral Surgery, shot Prof. Arthur Taylor Rowe, Prof. Paul B. Wiberg, and wounded Dr. William H. Crawford at Columbia Presbyterian Hospital, before committing suicide.
April 27, 1936 Lincoln, Nebraska, Prof. John Weller shot and wounded Prof. Harry Kurz in a corridor of the University of Nebraska, apparently because of his impending dismissal at the end of the semester. After shooting Kurz Weller tried to escape, but was surrounded by police on the campus, whereupon he killed himself with a shot in the chest.
June 4, 1936 Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, Wesley Crow shot and killed his Lehigh University English instructor, C. Wesley Phy. Crow went to Phy's office and demanded that Mr. Phy change his grade to a passing mark. Crow committed suicide after shooting Phy.
September 24, 1937 Toledo, Ohio 12-year-old Robert Snyder shot and wounded his principal, June Mapes, in her office at Arlington public school when she declined his request to call a classmate. He then fled the school grounds and shot and wounded himself.
[edit] 1940s
May 5, 1940 Dallas, Texas. Two youths shot and killed 38 students and seriously injuried 3 teachers when they were suspended from school for using inapporiate language toward a teacher.[citation needed]
May 6, 1940 South Pasadena, California. After being removed as principal of South Pasadena Junior High School, Verlin Spencer shot six school officials, killing five, before attempting to commit suicide by shooting himself in the stomach.
May 23, 1940: New York City, New York Infuriated by a grievance, Matthew Gillespie, 62-year-old janitor at the junior school of the Dwight School for Girls, shot and critically wounded Mrs. Marshall Coxe, secretary of the junior school.
July 4, 1940: Valhalla, New York Angered by the refusal of his daughter, Melba, 15 years old, to leave a boarding school and return to his home, Joseph Moshell, 47, visited the school and shot and killed the girl.
September 12, 1940 Uniontown, Pennsylvania, 29-year-old teacher Carolyn Dellamea is shot to death inside her third grade classroom by 35-year-old William Kuhns. Kuhns then shot himself in the chest in a failed suicide attempt. Kuhns had reportedly been courting Dellamea for over a year but the relationship was ended when Dellamea discovered that Kuhns was already married.
October 2, 1942: New York City, New York “Erwin Goodman, 36-year-old mathematics teacher of William J. Gaynor Junior High School, was shot and killed in the school corridor by a youth...
February 23, 1943: Port Chester, NY Harry Wyman, 13-year-old, shot himself dead at the Harvey School, a boys’ preparatory school.
June 26, 1946: Brooklyn, New York A 15-year-old schoolboy who balked at turning over his pocket money to a gang of seven Negro youths was shot in the chest at 11:30 A.M. yesterday in the basement of the Public School 147 annex of the Brooklyn High School for Automotive Trades.
November 24, 1946: New York City A 13-year-old student at St. Benedict’s Parochial School, shot and fatally wounded himself while sitting in an audience watching a school play.
December 24, 1948: New York City A 14-year-old boy was wounded fatally by an accidental shot from the .22-caliber rifle of a fellow-student … the youth was shot in the head when he chanced into range where Robert Ross, 17, of Brooklyn, was shooting at a target near a lake on the school property.
March 11, 1949: New York City A 16-year-old student at Stuyvesant High School was accidentally shot in the arm by a fellow student who was ‘showing off’ with a pistol in a classroom.
November 13, 1949 Columbus, Ohio, Ohio State University freshman James Heer grabbed a .45 caliber handgun from the room of a Delta Tau Delta fraternity brother and shot and killed his fraternity brother Jack McKeown, 21, an Ohio State senior.
[edit] 1950s
July 22, 1950 New York City, New York A 16-year-old boy was shot in the wrist and abdomen at the Public School 141 dance… during an argument with a former classmate.
November 27, 1951 New York City, New York David Brooks, a 15-year-old student, was fatally shot as fellow-pupils looked on in a grade school.
April 9, 1952 New York City, New York A 15-year-old boarding-school student shot a dean rather than relinquish pin-up pictures of girls in bathing suits.
July 14, 1952 New York City, New York Bayard Peakes walked in to the offices of the American Physical Society at Columbia University and shot and killed secretary Eileen Fahey with a .22 caliber pistol. Peakes was reportedly upset that the APS had rejected a pamphlet he had written.
September 3, 1952 in Lawrenceville, Illinois After 25-year-old Georgine Lyon ended her engagement with Charles Petrach, Petrach shot and killed Lyon in a classroom at Lawrenceville High School where she worked as a librarian.
November 20, 1952 New York City, New York “Rear Admiral E. E. Herrmann, 56 years old, superintendent of the Naval Post-Graduate School, was found dead in his office with a bullet in his head. A service revolver was found by his side.
October 2, 1953 Chicago, Illinois 14-year-old Patrick Colletta was shot to death by 14-year-old Bernice Turner in a classroom of Kelly High School in Chicago. It was reported that after Turner refused to date Colletta he handed her the gun and dared her to pull the trigger, telling her that the gun was “only a toy.” A coroner’s jury later ruled that the shooting was an accident.
October 8, 1953: New York City, New York Larry Licitra, 17-year-old student at the Machine and Metal Trades High School, was shot and slightly wounded in the right shoulder in the lobby of the school while inspecting a handmade pistol owned by one of several students.
May 15, 1954 Chapel Hill, North Carolina, Putnam Davis Jr. was shot and killed during a fraternity house carnival at the Phi Delta Theta house at the University of North Carolina. William Joyner and Allen Long were shot and wounded during the exchange of gunfire in their fraternity bedroom. The incident took place after an all-night beer party. Mr. Long reported to the police that, while the three were drinking beer at 7 a.m., Davis pulled out a gun and started shooting with a gun he had obtained from the car of a former roommate.
January 11, 1955 Swarthmore, Pennsylvania After some of his dorm mates urinated on his mattress Bob Bechtel, a 20-year-old student at Swarthmore College, returned to his dorm with a shotgun and used it to shoot and kill fellow student Holmes Strozier.
April 17, 1956 New York City, New York 18-year-old Henry Smith, a student at a Bronx vocational high school, is stabbed to death by 16-year-old Randolph Lawrence, a fellow student. The stabbing was reportedly sparked over a dispute about a basketball game.
May 4, 1956 in Prince George's County, Maryland, 15-year-old student Billy Prevatte fatally shot one teacher and injured two others at Maryland Park Junior High School in Prince George's County after he had been reprimanded from the school.
October 20, 1956: New York City, New York A junior high school student was wounded in the forearm yesterday by another student armed with a home-made weapon at Booker T. Washington Junior High School.
October 2, 1957: New York City, New York “A 16-year old student was shot in the leg yesterday by a 15-year old classmate at a city high school.”
March 4, 1958: New York City, New York “A 17-year-old student shot a boy in the Manual Training High School.”
May 1, 1958: Massapequa, New York A 15-year-old high school freshman was shot and killed by a classmate in a washroom of the Massapequa High School.
September 24, 1959: New York City, New York Twenty-seven men and boys and an arsenal were seized in the Bronx last night as the police headed off a gang war resulting from the fatal shooting of a teenager Monday at Morris High School.
[edit] 1960s
February 2, 1960 Hartford City, Indiana Principal Leonard Redden shot and killed two teachers with a shotgun at William Reed Elementary School in Hartford City, Indiana, before fleeing into a remote forest, where he committed suicide.
June 7, 1960 Blaine, Minnesota Lester Betts, a 40-year-old mail-carrier, walked into the office of 33-year-old principal Carson Hammond and shot him to death with a 12-gauge shotgun.
April 20, 1961 Chicago, Illinois Teacher Josephine Keane, 45, is sexually assaulted and stabbed to death inside a storeroom at Lewis-Champlin elementary school in Chicago. Lee Arthur Hester, a 14-year-old student, is later convicted of the murder and sentenced to 55 years in prison.
October 17, 1961 Denver, Colorado Tennyson Beard, 14, got into an argument with William Hachmeister, 15, at Morey Junior High School. During the argument Beard pulled out a .38 caliber revolver and shot at Hachmeister, wounding him. A stray bullet also struck Deborah Faith Humphrey, 14, who died from her gunshot wound.
August 1, 1966 University of Texas Massacre Charles Whitman climbs atop the observation deck at the University of Texas-Austin, killing 16 people and wounding 31 during a 96-minute shooting rampage.
November 12, 1966 Mesa, Arizona Bob Smith, 18, took seven people hostage at Rose-Mar College of Beauty, a school for training beauticians. Smith ordered the hostages to lie down on the floor in a circle. He then proceeded to shoot them in the head with a 22-caliber pistol. Four women and a three-year-old girl died, one woman and a baby were injured but survived. Police arrested Smith after the massacre. Smith had reportedly admired Richard Speck and Charles Whitman.
January 30, 1968 Miami, Florida 16-year-old Blanche Ward shot and killed fellow student Linda Lipscomb, 16, with a .22-caliber pistol at Miami Jackson High School. According to Ward, she was threatened with a razor by Lipscomb during an argument over a fountain pen, and in the ensuing struggle the gun went off.
February 8, 1968 Orangeburg, South Carolina In the days leading up to February 8, 1968, about 200 mostly student protesters gathered on the campus of South Carolina State University, located in the city of Orangeburg, to protest the segregation of the All Star Bowling Lane. The bowling alley was owned by the late Harry K. Floyd. That night, students started a bonfire. As police attempted to put out the fire, an officer was injured by a thrown piece of banister. The police said they believed they were under attack by small weapons fire. The officers fired into the crowd, killing three young men: Samuel Hammond, Delano Middleton, and Henry Smith, and wounding twenty-seven others.
May 22, 1968 Miami, Florida Ernest Lee Grissom, a 15-year-old student at Drew Junior High School, shot and seriously wounded a teacher and a 13-year-old student after he had been reprimanded for causing a disturbance.
January 17, 1969 Los Angeles, California Two student members of the Black Panther Party, Alprentice Carter and John Huggins, were fatally shot during a student meeting inside Campbell Hall at the University of California, Los Angeles. The motive of the shooting regarded who would own the school's African American Studies Center. The shooter, Claude Hubert, was never to be found but three other men were arrested in connection with the shooting.
November 19, 1969 Tomah, Wisconsin Principal Martin Mogensen is shot to death in his office by a 14-year-old boy armed with a 20 gauge shotgun.
[edit] 1970s
The two most notable U.S. school shootings in the early 1970s were the Jackson State killings in May 1970, where police opened fire on the campus of Jackson State University and the Kent State shootings also in May 1970 where the National Guard opened fire on the campus of Kent State University.
The mid to late 1970s is considered the second most violent period in U.S. school history with a series of school shootings, most notably were;
• December 30, 1974 Olean, New York, Anthony Barbaro, a 17-year-old Regents scholar armed with a rifle and shotgun, kills three adults and wounds 11 others at his high school, which was closed for the Christmas holiday. Barbaro was reportedly a loner who kept a diary describing several "battle plans" for his attack on the school.[31]
• June 12, 1976 California State University, Fullerton massacre, where the school's custodian opened fire with a semi-automatic rifle in the library on the California State University, Fullerton campus killing 7, and wounding 2.
• February 22, 1978 Lansing, Michigan After being taunted for his beliefs, a 15-year-old self-proclaimed Nazi, kills one student and wounds a second with a Luger pistol.[31]
• January 29, 1979 Grover Cleveland Elementary School Shootings, California, where a 16yr old girl opened fire with the rifle, a gift from her father, killing 2 and wounding 9.
[edit] 1980s
The early 1980s saw only a few multi-victim school shootings including;
• January 20, 1983 St. Louis County, Missouri the Parkway South Middle School, eighth grader brought a blue duffel bag containing two pistols, and a murder/suicide note that outlined his intention to kill the next person heard speaking ill of his older brother Ken. He entered a study hall classroom and opened fire, hitting two fellow students. The first victim, was fatally shot in the stomach, and the second victim received a non-fatal gunshot wound to the abdomen. Then he said, "no one will ever call my brother a pussy again" then committed suicide.
According to the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence, in the United States, from September 1986 to September 1990 (four year period):[32] At least 71 people (65 students and 6 school employees) had been killed with guns at school.
201 were severely wounded by gun fire.
242 individuals were held hostage at gunpoint.
According to a 1987 survey conducted by the American School Health Association,[33]" 3% of the boys reported having carried a handgun to school at least once during the school year; 1% reported carrying a handgun on a daily basis."
The late 1980s began to see a major increase in school shootings including;
• September 4, 1985 Richmond, Virginia At the end of the second day of school from the East End Middle School a 12yr old boy shot a girl with his mother's gun.[34]
• October 18, 1985 Detroit, Michigan During halftime of the homecoming football game between Northwestern High School and Murray-Wright High School. A boy who was in a fight earlier that day, pulled out a shotgun and opened fire injuring six students.[35]
• November 26, 1985 Spanaway, Washington A 14yr old girl shot two boys dead then kills herself with a .22-caliber rifle at the Spanaway Junior High School.[36]
• December 9, 1985 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania At the Archbishop Ryan High School for Boys, a 22yr old Mental health patient took 6 students hostage with what ended up being a starter pistol. No one was hurt in the ordeal.
• December 10, 1985 Portland, Connecticut At the Portland Junior High School, the Principal was having a heated discussion with a 13-year-old male eighth-grader when he locked the boy inside an office. The student then pulled out a 9mm assault rifle and opened fire. The bullet shattered the glass door and struck the left forearm of the secretary and the glass injured the Principal. The boy fled for the 2nd floor, were he encountered the janitor, and he shot him in the head. The boy then took a seventh-grader hostage. The boy's father and another family member came to the school and talked to him over the intercom system. After 45 minutes, he tossed the gun out a school window and was taken into custody.[37]
• May 16, 1986 The Cokeville Elementary School hostage crisis In a ransom scheme, David and Doris Young, both in their forties, took 150 students and teachers hostage on this spring day. Their demand for $300 million dollars came to an abrupt end when Doris accidentally set off a bomb, killing herself and injuring 78 students and teachers. David wounded John Miller, a teacher who was trying to flee, then killed himself.
• March 2, 1987 Missouri an honours student Nathan Ferris, 12, killed a classmate and then himself.[38]
• May 20, 1988 Winnetka, Illinois 30yr old Laurie Dann shot and killed one boy, and wounded five other kids, in an elementary school, then took a family hostage and shot a man before killing herself.
• September 26, 1988 Greenwood, South Carolina In the cafeteria of the Oakland Elementary School 19 year-old James William Wilson Jr., shot and killed Shequilla Bradley, 8 and wounded eight other children with a 9-round .22 caliber pistol. He went into the girls restroom to reload where he was attacked by Kat Finkbeiner, a Physical Education teacher. James shot her in the hand and mouth. He then entered 3rd grade classroom and wounded six more students.
• December 16, 1988 Virginia Beach, Virginia Nicholas Elliott, 15, opened fire with a SWD Cobray M-11 semiautomatic pistol on his teachers at the Atlantic Shores Christian School. His first shots struck teacher Karen Farley in the arm; when she went down he killed her at point blank range. Nicholas then injured Sam Marino. He turned the Cobray toward his classmates, but the gun jammed and he was quickly subdued by M. Hutchinson Matteson, a teacher, before he could fire another round.
• January 17, 1989 Cleveland School massacre of Stockton, California where 5 school children were killed and 29 wounded by a single gunman firing over 100 rounds into a schoolyard from an AK-47[39]
[edit] 1990s
you missed the ones from 1990 and on, and if you read the list like I did you will see very few involved kids doing the shooting (as the other poster indicated from 1900 - 1920), unlike from 1990 on which involved kids doing the shooting (80's on with an increase occurring in the late 80's).
Asterios wrote: you missed the ones from 1990 and on, and if you read the list like I did you will see very few involved kids doing the shooting (as the other poster indicated from 1900 - 1920), unlike from 1990 on which involved kids doing the shooting (80's on with an increase occurring in the late 80's).
Dude, just stop...
DarkLink wrote: Since it seems like he refused to follow the link, there's a similar list from a different source, quoted:
(many many many more)
April 20, 1961 Chicago, Illinois Teacher Josephine Keane, 45, is sexually assaulted and stabbed to death inside a storeroom at Lewis-Champlin elementary school in Chicago. Lee Arthur Hester, a 14-year-old student, is later convicted of the murder and sentenced to 55 years in prison.
October 17, 1961 Denver, Colorado Tennyson Beard, 14, got into an argument with William Hachmeister, 15, at Morey Junior High School. During the argument Beard pulled out a .38 caliber revolver and shot at Hachmeister, wounding him. A stray bullet also struck Deborah Faith Humphrey, 14, who died from her gunshot wound.
August 1, 1966 University of Texas Massacre Charles Whitman climbs atop the observation deck at the University of Texas-Austin, killing 16 people and wounding 31 during a 96-minute shooting rampage.
November 12, 1966 Mesa, Arizona Bob Smith, 18, took seven people hostage at Rose-Mar College of Beauty, a school for training beauticians. Smith ordered the hostages to lie down on the floor in a circle. He then proceeded to shoot them in the head with a 22-caliber pistol. Four women and a three-year-old girl died, one woman and a baby were injured but survived. Police arrested Smith after the massacre. Smith had reportedly admired Richard Speck and Charles Whitman.
January 30, 1968 Miami, Florida 16-year-old Blanche Ward shot and killed fellow student Linda Lipscomb, 16, with a .22-caliber pistol at Miami Jackson High School. According to Ward, she was threatened with a razor by Lipscomb during an argument over a fountain pen, and in the ensuing struggle the gun went off.
May 22, 1968 Miami, Florida Ernest Lee Grissom, a 15-year-old student at Drew Junior High School, shot and seriously wounded a teacher and a 13-year-old student after he had been reprimanded for causing a disturbance.
November 19, 1969 Tomah, Wisconsin Principal Martin Mogensen is shot to death in his office by a 14-year-old boy armed with a 20 gauge shotgun.
• December 30, 1974 Olean, New York, Anthony Barbaro, a 17-year-old Regents scholar armed with a rifle and shotgun, kills three adults and wounds 11 others at his high school, which was closed for the Christmas holiday. Barbaro was reportedly a loner who kept a diary describing several "battle plans" for his attack on the school.[31]
• February 22, 1978 Lansing, Michigan After being taunted for his beliefs, a 15-year-old self-proclaimed Nazi, kills one student and wounds a second with a Luger pistol.[31]
• January 29, 1979 Grover Cleveland Elementary School Shootings, California, where a 16yr old girl opened fire with the rifle, a gift from her father, killing 2 and wounding 9.
[edit] 1980s
• January 20, 1983 St. Louis County, Missouri the Parkway South Middle School, eighth grader brought a blue duffel bag containing two pistols, and a murder/suicide note that outlined his intention to kill the next person heard speaking ill of his older brother Ken. He entered a study hall classroom and opened fire, hitting two fellow students. The first victim, was fatally shot in the stomach, and the second victim received a non-fatal gunshot wound to the abdomen. Then he said, "no one will ever call my brother a pussy again" then committed suicide.
According to a 1987 survey conducted by the American School Health Association,[33]" 3% of the boys reported having carried a handgun to school at least once during the school year; 1% reported carrying a handgun on a daily basis."
• September 4, 1985 Richmond, Virginia At the end of the second day of school from the East End Middle School a 12yr old boy shot a girl with his mother's gun.[34]
• October 18, 1985 Detroit, Michigan During halftime of the homecoming football game between Northwestern High School and Murray-Wright High School. A boy who was in a fight earlier that day, pulled out a shotgun and opened fire injuring six students.[35]
• November 26, 1985 Spanaway, Washington A 14yr old girl shot two boys dead then kills herself with a .22-caliber rifle at the Spanaway Junior High School.[36]
• December 10, 1985 Portland, Connecticut At the Portland Junior High School, the Principal was having a heated discussion with a 13-year-old male eighth-grader when he locked the boy inside an office. The student then pulled out a 9mm assault rifle and opened fire. The bullet shattered the glass door and struck the left forearm of the secretary and the glass injured the Principal. The boy fled for the 2nd floor, were he encountered the janitor, and he shot him in the head. The boy then took a seventh-grader hostage. The boy's father and another family member came to the school and talked to him over the intercom system. After 45 minutes, he tossed the gun out a school window and was taken into custody.[37]
• March 2, 1987 Missouri an honours student Nathan Ferris, 12, killed a classmate and then himself.[38]
• September 26, 1988 Greenwood, South Carolina In the cafeteria of the Oakland Elementary School 19 year-old James William Wilson Jr., shot and killed Shequilla Bradley, 8 and wounded eight other children with a 9-round .22 caliber pistol. He went into the girls restroom to reload where he was attacked by Kat Finkbeiner, a Physical Education teacher. James shot her in the hand and mouth. He then entered 3rd grade classroom and wounded six more students.
• December 16, 1988 Virginia Beach, Virginia Nicholas Elliott, 15, opened fire with a SWD Cobray M-11 semiautomatic pistol on his teachers at the Atlantic Shores Christian School. His first shots struck teacher Karen Farley in the arm; when she went down he killed her at point blank range. Nicholas then injured Sam Marino. He turned the Cobray toward his classmates, but the gun jammed and he was quickly subdued by M. Hutchinson Matteson, a teacher, before he could fire another round.
zombiekila707 wrote: It sounds stupid I don't approve. Don't beat your kids punish them by making do choirs or work on a farm. Nothing is worse then shoveling cow gak for a couple hours. Gives you time to think and learn from you mistakes.
Then victory will be yours.
I guarantee it.
And if they refuse to do the chores? What do you do? Not give them dinner? Child cruelty. Take away their toys? Mental cruelty. And the list goes on.
Raising a child is one of the hardest things that we can ever do, and the authorities are constantly looking over our shoulders for the slightest infractions 'against the rights of the child'. Child misbehaves and the parents don't do anything, bad parents! Not capable of controlling a child. Child misbehaves and gets a smacked backside. Bad parents! Physical punishments are child abuse.
Either stance taken to the extreme does more harm than good. But finding that middle path is next to impossible with all these backseat drivers who think they know best, even though they don't have children of their own.
Asterios wrote: really school shootings committed by kids where more then one student was killed, where is your evidence? I'm calling you out, show up or shut up.
also i'm not talking adults, or accidents, or suicide but intentional shooting of others by kids, better go check your facts before responding.
So now we're redefining what constitutes a "school shooting" and again moving the goalposts some more. I see how this is going, and virtually anything I can do tonight is better that playing logic calvinball with you.
Not that I'm defending him, but, if *you* (not you, Ouze personally, but more the royal you) are getting your facts from a place like Moms Demand Action, or other pro gun-control groups, they really do go out of their way to make it look like school shootings are a World War Z level epidemic. If you look closely at THEIR incidents that they list, around 2/3rds of the incidents are nowhere near a school, nowhere near school hours, and/or having nothing to do with schools (for instance, a drug deal gone wrong at 9pm across the street from a high school was counted as a "school shooting" to help them inflate numbers)
Also, FWIW, I cannot agree or disagree that school shootings as most people think of them (columbine, sandy hook, etc) are going down or up... What I CAN agree with is that even if the actual numbers haven't changed much, the media coverage of them sure as hell has over the last 20-30 years.
Not give them dinner? Child cruelty. Take away their toys? Mental cruelty. And the list goes on.
See, I never, EVER "not give them dinner" with my kids, I put food on their plate and they will either eat it or they won't. If they wont eat it, they get no dessert or anything till the next official meal time. Not cruelty.
Seriously.. taking toys away from kids is a "CPS" worthy offense in Australia? Fething A man, you guys have enough to worry about with all the drop bears, and millions and billions of species of flora and fauna that will kill you... Does CPS put surveillance equipment on the drop bears to spy on you before they take you out??
I cannot recall hearing of, or even fathom a situation in the US where parents had their children taken away by the State for disciplining a child via "grounding" them from toys.... I do it all the time, with specific toys. Most commonly, I tell my kids, "The Legos stay in the bucket when your not playing with them, or they get taken away" Very clear guidelines of "clean up after yourself"
Ensis Ferrae wrote: What I CAN agree with is that even if the actual numbers haven't changed much, the media coverage of them sure as hell has over the last 20-30 years.
No argument from me. School shootings make great TV for the ever ravenous, 24 hour coverage beast. You might get 3 days worth of filler out of a good one.
I can do that too, mind you all these listed are just ones where kids are the shooters (age 17 or younger):
April 23, 1991 Compton, California 1 0 A teenager aimed and fired a handgun at a security guard who had chased him and three friends off the grounds of Ralph J. Bunche Middle School. However, instead of hitting his intended target, the bullet struck 11-year-old bystander Alejandro Vargas, a student at the school, killing him.[235]
November 25, 1991 Brooklyn, New York 1 0 Thomas Jefferson High School A stray bullet kills a 16-year-old student during an argument between two other teens. Shooter Jason Bentley, 14, is sentenced in 1992 to three to nine years in prison.[192]
February 26, 1992 Brooklyn, New York 2 0 Thomas Jefferson High School was the scene of its second shooting of the school year, when a 15-year-old shot and killed two other students. The shooter, Khalil Sumpter, is sentenced in 1993 to between 6 2/3 and 20 years in prison and is released in 1998.[192]
January 18, 1993 Grayson, Kentucky 2 0 East Carter High School shooting Scott Pennington, 17, fatally shot his teacher, Deanna McDavid, and head custodian Marvin Hicks.[236]
February 22, 1993 Los Angeles, California 2 0 Robert Heard, 15, fatally shot 17-year-old Michael Shean Ensley in the corridor of the Reseda High School's science building[237]
May 24, 1993 Pennsburg, Pennsylvania 1 0 Upper Perkiomen High School, 15-year-old student Jason Smith shoots and kills another student who had bullied him. He is sentenced to between 12 and 25 years in prison.[192][239]
April 12, 1994 Butte, Montana 1 0 10-year-old Jason Osmanson, teased because his parents have AIDS, shoots and kills an 11-year-old on the playground of Margaret Leary Elementary School. Osmanson is sent to a private residential treatment center.[192]
January 12, 1995 Seattle, Washington 0 2 A 15-year-old Garfield High School student left school during the day and returned with his grandfather's 9mm semiautomatic handgun. He wounded two students.[244]
September 29, 1995 Tavares, Florida 1 0 Tavares Middle School student Keith E. Johnson, 14, shot and killed Joey Summerall, 13, with a 9mm semiautomatic handgun that he had stolen from his neighbors home. He is now serving life in prison without the possibility of parole.[245]
October 12, 1995 Blackville, South Carolina 2 1 Blackville-Hilda High School shooting: Anthony Sincino, 16, killed one teacher and wounded another before committing suicide.
November 15, 1995 Lynnville, Tennessee 2 1 Richland High School shooting: James Rouse, 17, killed a student and teacher and seriously wounded another teacher with a .22 caliber rifle.
January 19, 1996 Washington 1 0 Winston Education Center, Two masked gunmen kill 14-year-old Damion Blocker in a stairwell. 16-year-old shooter Darrick Evans is given a sentence of 41 years to life in prison.[192]
February 2, 1996 Moses Lake, Washington 3 1 Frontier Middle School shooting: Barry Loukaitis, 14, killed a teacher and two students and wounded another student when he opened fire on his algebra class. Loukaitis was sentenced to life in prison.
September 25, 1996 Decatur, Georgia 1 2 Dekalb Alternative School, 16-year-old David Dubose Jr. shoots and kills English teacher Horace Morgan on the steps of the school. Dubose is found not guilty by reason of insanity and is committed indefinitely to a state mental hospital.[192]
February 19, 1997 Bethel, Alaska 2 2 Bethel Regional High School shooting: Student Evan Ramsey, 16, shot and killed the school's principal and one student, and wounded two other students.
October 1, 1997 Pearl, Mississippi 3 7 Pearl High School shooting: Luke Woodham, 16, murdered his mother at home before killing his ex-girlfriend and another student and wounding seven others at Pearl High School. The perpetrator attempted to flee police and continue his killing spree at a nearby middle school, but he was stopped and detained by the Vice Principal,[247] Joel Myrick, who had retrieved his .45 caliber handgun from his coat after hearing the shots fired. Woodham and his friends were said to be outcasts who worshipped Satan.
November 27, 1997 West Palm Beach, Florida 1 0 Conniston Middle School student Tronneal Magnum, 14, fatally shot Johnpierre Kamel, 14, outside school after an argument over a wristwatch.[248]
December 1, 1997 West Paducah, Kentucky 3 5 Heath High School shooting: Three students were killed and five wounded by Michael Carneal, 14, as they participated in a prayer circle. Carneal was sentenced to life in prison.
December 15, 1997 Stamps, Arkansas 0 2 Joseph “Colt” Todd, 14, concealed in a wooded area on school grounds, shot and wounded two students as they were entering Stamps High School.[249]
March 24, 1998 Craighead County, Arkansas 5 10 Westside Middle School massacre: Mitchell Johnson, 13, and Andrew Golden, 11, killed four students and one teacher and wounded ten others as Westside Middle School emptied during a fire alarm intentionally set off by Golden.[250]
April 24, 1998 Edinboro, Pennsylvania 1 3 Parker Middle School dance shooting: Andrew Wurst, 14, fatally shot teacher John Gillette, 48, and wounded two students and a teacher at an 8th grade graduation dance.[251] He is serving a 30 to 60-year sentence in a prison for young offenders.[252]
May 21, 1998 Springfield, Oregon 4 23 After killing his parents at home, Kip Kinkel, 15, drove to Thurston High School where he shot and killed two students and wounded 23 others. He was sentenced to 111 years of prison.
June 15, 1998 Richmond, Virginia 0 2 A 14-year-old student of Armstrong High School wounded a teacher and a school volunteer.[254]
April 16, 1999 Notus, Idaho 0 0 Shawn Cooper, 15, fired two shots from a 12 gauge shotgun, in the hall near the front desk at Notus Jr. Sr. High School. There were no serious injuries, but some students were close enough to the blast to catch some shrapnel from the tile floor. Shawn Cooper had been undergoing treatment for Bipolar disorder.[256]
April 20, 1999 Littleton, Colorado 15 21 Columbine High School massacre: Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, killed 14 students (themselves included) and one teacher, and wounded 21 others before committing suicide.
May 20, 1999 Conyers, Georgia 0 6 Heritage High School shooting: Six students were shot and injured by student Thomas "T.J." Solomon Jr., 15. A 15-year-old girl was hospitalized in critical condition, and the other victims suffered from non-life-threatening injuries. Solomon initially faced up to 351 years of prison if convicted of aggravated assault and other charges,[257] but in 2000 he was found guilty but mentally ill and was sentenced to 40 years in prison and 65 years of probation.[258][259][260]
November 19, 1999 Deming, New Mexico 1 0 A 13-year-old girl fatally shot at Deming Middle School by Victor Cordova Jr., 13. Cordova stated he had intended to commit suicide but was jostled by others and the gun moved.[261]
December 6, 1999 Fort Gibson, Oklahoma 0 6 12-year-old Seth Trickey opened fire in front of the middle school in the courtyard in the pre-school hours. While there were no fatalities, several students felt sparks from the bullets hitting the building walls, and six were injured, including a girl who was shot in the face. Another 7th grade student found a bullet lodged in his algebra book that was in his backpack. Trickey brought the gun from home.[262]
2000s
February 29, 2000 Flint, Michigan 1 0 At Buell Elementary School, 6-year-old Dedrick Owens, the youngest school shooter ever, shot and killed classmate Kayla Rolland.[263]
May 26, 2000 Lake Worth, Florida 1 0 Lake Worth Middle School Florida teacher Barry Grunow was fatally shot by his student, 13-year-old Nathaniel Brazill, who had returned to school after being sent home at 1 p.m. by the assistant principal for throwing water balloons. Brazill returned to school on his bike with a 5-inch Raven semiautomatic pistol and four bullets stolen from his grandfather the week before. Brazill was an honor student. Grunow was a popular teacher and Brazill's favorite.[263]
September 26, 2000 New Orleans, Louisiana 0 2 Darrel Johnson, 13, and Alfred Anderson were initially charged with Louisiana attempted second degree murder in a school shooting where both were shot with the same gun.[267]
March 5, 2001 Santee, California 2 13 Santana High School shooting: Charles Andrew Williams, a 15-year-old student, opened fire at Santana High School, killing two students and wounding 13 others. He was arrested and convicted of murder and attempted murder. He was sentenced to life with the chance of parole after serving 50 years.[268]
March 7, 2001 Williamsport, PA 0 1 Elizabeth Catherine Bush, 14, wounded student Kimberly Marchese in the cafeteria of Bishop Neumann High School; she was depressed and frequently teased.[269]
March 22, 2001 El Cajon, California 0 5 Jason Hoffman opened fire at Granite Hills High School, El Cajon, CA injuring five people. Hoffman committed suicide in prison in 2002.[270][271]
January 15, 2002 New York City 0 2 17-year-old Vincent Rodriguez shot and wounded two students at Martin Luther King, Jr. High School in Manhattan, with a .380-caliber semi-automatic pistol. The motive was that the victims had harassed Rodriguez's girlfriend.[273][274] In February 2003, Rodriguez was sentenced to 10 years in prison on charges of assault and attempted assault.[275]
October 7, 2002 Bowie, MD 0 1 A victim of the Beltway sniper attacks, 13-year-old Iran Brown was shot and wounded as he arrived at Benjamin Tasker Middle School in Bowie, Maryland. His aunt, a nurse who had just brought him to school, rushed him to a hospital emergency room. Despite serious injuries, including damage to several major organs, Brown survived the attack.
April 24, 2003 Red Lion, Pennsylvania 2 0 On April 24, 2003, eighth-grade student James Sheets entered Red Lion Area Junior High School armed with his stepfather's pistols and subsequently killed the school's principal, Eugene Segro, before killing himself.[278]
September 24, 2003 Cold Spring, Minnesota 2 0 Rocori High School shooting. John Jason McLaughlin, aged 15, fatally shot two students at Rocori High School. A 17-year-old was killed immediately, and a 15-year-old died from his wounds on October 11, 2003. McLaughlin was sentenced to life in prison with the chance of parole in 2038.[263]
February 2, 2004 Washington, D.C. 1 0 Unidentified offender in Washington, DC school shooting with one student fatality.[263]
February 9, 2004 East Greenbush, New York 0 1 Jon W. Romano in East Greenbush, New York fired two rounds from a shotgun loaded with bird shot, wounding one teacher. He was tackled by the assistant principal and charged with one count of attempted murder[282]
May 7, 2004 Randallstown, Maryland 0 4 Two students were charged with a school shooting after a basketball game that arose from a dispute, but left 4 injured, 2 where were serious, at Randallstown High School. One student was paralyzed from the waist down.[283]
October 2004 Memphis, Tennessee 0 1 At Hamilton High School, one student fires a single shot at another student (who was not armed at the time) in the school's basement. None of the two students were hurt in the basement.
March 21, 2005 Red Lake, Minnesota 10 7 Red Lake massacre: Jeffrey Weise, a 16-year-old student, opened fire at the Red Lake Indian Reservation, first killing his grandfather and grandfather's companion. He drove his grandfather's police vehicle to his high school, Red Lake Senior High School. Weise was armed with his grandfather's police weapons—a .40 caliber Glock 23 pistol, Ruger .22 caliber pistol, and a Remington 870 12-gauge shotgun. He shot and killed five students, one teacher, one security guard, and then committed suicide. Seven other people were wounded in the shooting.[284][285][286]
September 13, 2005 Chicago, Illinois 0 1 At Harlan Community Academy High School, a fight broke out between two 15-year-old boys in the gymnasium. One of the boys took out a .25-caliber pistol and shot the other one in the leg. A police officer on duty at the school arrested the gunman. The suspected shooter was charged as an adult with aggravated battery with a firearm.[263][287]
November 8, 2005 La Follette, Tennessee 1 2 Campbell County High School shooting. Inside the Campbell County High School office, Kenneth Bartley, aged 15, brandished a firearm and said "Yes, it's real. I'll show you. I never liked you anyway", and shot the school principal, Gary Seale. He then shot assistant principals Ken Bruce and Jim Pierce. Bruce later died from his gunshot wound.[288] Bartley was sentenced to 45 years of prison with chance of parole after serving 29 years.[263][289]
February 23, 2006 Roseburg, Oregon 0 1 14-year-old freshman Vincent Wayne Leodoro shot 16-year-old Joseph Monti four times in the back with a 10mm semi-automatic handgun, in the courtyard of Roseburg High School. Leodoro then walked away from the school campus and stood in front of a restaurant where he was confronted by six police officers. Leodoro then placed the handgun to his head and threatened suicide, while customers inside the restaurant and police officers convinced him to not pull the trigger. Afterward, Leodoro surrendered. He was found guilty of attempted murder and assault in July 2006, and will be held in prison until he turns 25 years old.[290][291]
March 14, 2006 Reno, Nevada 0 2 Pine Middle School shooting. In the hallway of Pine Middle School, 14-year-old James Scott Newman shot and injured two 14-year-old eighth grade classmates with a .38-caliber revolver that had belonged to his parents. A male student received minor injuries to his arm and torso. A female student was hit by a bullet that ricocheted, and received superficial wounds. Newman was subdued by a physical education teacher. Newman was arrested and initially charged as an adult on charges of attempted murder, use of a deadly weapon and use of a firearm by a minor but later plead guilty to different charges of two counts of battery with a deadly weapon, in which he had received sentencing as a juvenile. James Newman was sentenced to house arrest until he completed 200 hours of community service.[292]
August 30, 2006 Hillsborough, North Carolina 0 2 After killing his own father in a non-school shooting, teenager, Alvaro Castillo, wounded two students at his school in Hillsborough, North Carolina. He was reportedly obsessed with the Columbine shootings of 7 years earlier and had even written an email to the then-Columbine principal before committing his own crime.[294][295]
September 29, 2006 Cazenovia, Wisconsin 1 0 Weston High School shooting: Eric Hainstock, a 15-year-old student, walked in the school building of Weston High School and shot the high school principal with a handgun after a custodian disarmed him of a shotgun in Cazenovia, Wisconsin. The school principal died, and Hainstock was charged and convicted of murder. He is serving a life sentence and will be eligible for parole in 2037.[297][298]
December 12, 2006 Erdenheim, Pennsylvania 1 0 An 11th-grader brought a rifle to school and fired several shots at the ceiling. He then turned the gun on himself and took his own life.[299]
February 4, 2008 Memphis, Tennessee 0 1 At Hamilton High School, a 16-year-old student was shot in the leg during an argument with another student over rap music. The victim's injury was not life-threatening.[304]
February 11, 2008 Memphis, Tennessee 0 1 A 19-year-old high school senior student was shot in his school's gym by a 17-year-old high school sophomore student, following a feud that started off campus earlier in the week; after the shooting, the suspect hands his gun to a coach, saying, "It's over now."[citation needed]
February 12, 2008 Oxnard, California 1 0 Murder of Larry King: Brandon McInerney, 14, shot Lawrence "Larry" King, 15, in the head twice in the computer laboratory of E.O. Green Junior High School. McInerney was apprehended in a nearby neighborhood. King, who was homosexual, died two days later from his gunshot wounds. McInerney was initially charged with a hate crime, but that enhancement was later dropped. McInerney plead guily to second-degree murder and was sentenced to 21 years in prison.[307][308][309]
February 14, 2008 DeKalb, Illinois 6 21 Northern Illinois University shooting: Steven Kazmierczak, 27, shot multiple people in a classroom of Northern Illinois University with a 12 gauge Remington Sportsman 48 shotgun, killing five and injuring 21. He then committed suicide. Kazmierczak was not a student at the university, but had attended it the years prior to the attack.[310][311][312]
August 21, 2008 Knoxville, Tennessee 1 0 Central High School, 15-year-old Jamar Siler shoots and kills 15-year-old Ryan McDonald. In 2011, Siler receives 30 years in prison in a plea agreement.[192]
October 16, 2008 Detroit, Michigan 1 3 Christopher Walker, 16, was killed, and three other teenagers were seriously wounded during a drive-by shooting at a primary school lawn adjacent to Henry Ford High School, where Walker and the other students were just dismissed from after classes ended. Three teenagers were arrested and charged in connection with the shooting.[315] William Morton, 15, the shooter, was sentenced to life without parole, and Devon Bell was sentenced to 42 years of prison.[316]
November 13, 2008 Fort Lauderdale, Florida 1 0 15-year-old Amanda Collette was shot to death at a hallway floor at Dillard High School. The shooter, 15-year-old Teah Wimberly, was sentenced to 25 years to life on a first-degree murder charge.[318]
May 18, 2009 Larose, Louisiana 1 0 At Larose-Cut Off Middle School, Justin Doucet, a 15-year-old student, asked his teacher if he could use the restroom. While in the restroom, Doucet took out a .25 caliber semi-automatic handgun from his backpack and donned on camouflage clothes. The gun was registered to his father. Doucet entered a classroom that was not his, and pointed the handgun at the teacher. While walking towards the teacher, he demanded her to say "Hail Marilyn Manson!" and she did not respond. Doucet fired a shot at her, narrowly missing her head. Doucet walked back into the restroom where he shot himself in the head. He was transferred to Terrebonne General Medical Center in critical condition, and died one week later from his wounds.[325][326]
June 16, 2009 San Francisco, California 0 3 After students were being let out of International Studies Academy on the first day of summer school classes, a man exited a car and opened fire, wounding three people, including a 17-year-old female student. An 18-year-old man was arrested for being an accessory in the crime.[
2010's
February 5, 2010 Madison, Alabama 1 0 14-year-old Hammad Memon shot to death 14-year-old Todd Brown in a crowded school hallway of Discovery Middle School, during changing of classes. The shooting was possibly motivated by gang activities. In May 2013, Memon plead guilty to the murder of Brown, and was sentenced to 30 years of prison. After Memon is released from prison, he is likely to be deported to his native Pakistan.[329][330]
September 8, 2010 Detroit, Michigan 0 2 Mumford High School shooting. Two students were shot and wounded in front of Mumford High School. A 17-year-old man, Steven Jamal Hare, was tried as an adult and charged with assault with intent to kill. In 2012, Hare was sentenced to 27 years of prison.[331]
November 29, 2010 Marinette, Wisconsin 1 0 Samuel Hengel, 15, took 23 students and a teacher hostage inside a classroom of Marinette High School for five hours. Before the hostage situation, Hengel stormed in the classroom with a handgun and fired shots at a movie projector while a movie was playing. After releasing all the hostages, police entered the building and Hengel shot himself in the head. He died the next day.[334][335]
December 6, 2010 Aurora, Colorado 0 1 In a gang-related attack outside Aurora Central High School, a 17-year-old girl was shot and wounded. The wounds caused her to be paralyzed. Luis Enrique Guzman-Rincon, 20, fired shots from a car while students were standing outside the high school, trying to shoot at a group of students who were believed to be gang rivals. Guzman-Ricon was sentenced to 35 years in prison.[336]
March 25, 2011 Martinsville, Indiana 0 1 Michael Phelps, a 15-year-old suspended student, returned to Martinsville West Middle School with a 9mm handgun. In the entrance of the school, Phelps shot 15-year-old Chance Jackson twice in the abdomen. Phelps fled the school and dropped the handgun in a field and was arrested shortly after.[341] As a result, Jackson suffered from life-threatening injuries and underwent surgery three times, and suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder. Phelps was convicted of attempted murder in August 2011, and was sentenced to 30 years in prison and 5 years of probation.[342][343] He will be eligible for parole in 2026.[344]
May 23, 2011 Pearl City, Hawaii 0 1 A 14-year-old male student is accused of firing a handgun on the campus of Highlands Intermediate School, wounding one student. The gunman was arrested on suspicion of attempted murder. Two other suspects were arrested in connection with the shooting.[346]
October 24, 2011 Fayetteville, North Carolina 0 1 A 15-year-old girl was shot in the neck at Cape Fear High School. She was hospitalized for two months at Duke University Hospital in serious condition. A .22-caliber rifle was used in the attack. A student of the school,15-year-old Charles Underwood, was arrested and charged with attempted murder.[347] Underwood was convicted of attempted first-degree murder and was sentenced to 15 years in prison.[348]
January 10, 2012 Houston, Texas 0 1 One student was shot and injured after another student opened fire at North Forest High School. The student said that he was being confronted by three other students who were bullying him, and he took out a handgun and fired at them in self-defense. A 16-year-old bystander was unintentionally hit in the leg. The 18-year-old suspect was charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon.[352][353]
February 22, 2012 Bremerton, Washington 0 1 Third-grader Amina Kocer-Bowman was accidentally shot when a fellow student brought a 9mm handgun to school and it went off when he dropped his backpack. She survived after 6 weeks in the hospital and a surgery to remove the bullet from her spine.[354]
February 27, 2012 Chardon, Ohio 3 3 Chardon High School shooting: Thomas "T. J." Lane, 17, took a Ruger MK III .22 caliber semi-automatic handgun and a knife to Chardon High School and fired ten shots at a group of students sitting at a cafeteria table. Three students died in the attack; a 16-year-old boy died immediately, and two other male students died from their wounds the following day. Three other students were injured. Lane was arrested when he was standing near his car parked near the school, and was charged as an adult with murder, attempted murder, and firearms offenses. In March 2013, he was sentenced to three life sentences without the possibility of parole.[355]
August 16, 2012 Memphis, Tennessee 0 2 Two Hamilton High School students were shot and wounded in the parking lot of the school. The attack was believed to be gang-related.[363]
August 27, 2012 Perry Hall, Maryland 0 1 Robert Gladden, 15, took a double barrel shotgun to Perry Hall High School and fired two shots inside the school cafeteria. A 17-year-old senior with Down syndrome was hit in the lower back while he was sitting at a table and suffered critical wounds. Gladden was immediately subdued by two school faculty members, and was arrested. In February 2013, he was sentenced to 35 years in prison on attempted murder charges.[364][365][366]
September 7, 2012 Normal, Illinois 0 0 A student fired multiple gunshots in the ceiling of Normal Community High School, and was tackled by a teacher. Nobody was injured. A 14-year-old student was arrested and is charged with 16 felony counts.[367]
January 10, 2013 Taft, California 0 2 A gunman entered a science classroom of Taft Union High School with a 12 gauge shotgun and opened fire. A 16-year-old male student, identified as Bowe Cleveland, was shot in the chest and critically wounded. Another student was shot at, but was not hit. The classroom teacher, Ryan Heber, convinced him to drop his weapon, and the gunman followed his order and was later arrested. Additionally, Heber suffered a minor wound from being grazed by a shotgun pellet during the ordeal. The gunman was suspected to be a 16-year-old student of the school, Bryan Oliver. Cleveland and the other student that was shot at are both believed to be intended targets of the gunman. On January 14, Oliver was charged with two counts of attempted murder and assault with a firearm.[376][377]
January 16, 2013 Chicago, Illinois 1 0 A 17-year-old boy, Tyrone Lawson, was shot to death in a parking lot of Chicago State University. The shooting happened after high school basketball games were being held on the university campus, and Lawson was a spectator at the event. Police arrested two people after the shooting and recovered a weapon.[380]
January 31, 2013 Atlanta, Georgia 0 2 A 14-year-old male student was shot and wounded in the back of the neck at Price Middle School. The gunman, a student, was believed to be arguing with the other student before taking out a handgun and firing multiple shots at him. In addition, a teacher was injured during the shooting. Afterward, the gunman was disarmed by a school resource officer and subsequently apprehended. He was charged with aggravated assault.[383][384]
August 23, 2013 Sardis, Mississippi 1 2 A student, Roderick Bobo, 15, was shot during a football game at North Panola High School in what was termed as a gang-related shooting. Two others were injured in the shooting, and three men were charged as being responsible for the crime.[402][403]
October 4, 2013 Pine Hills, Florida 0 2 A 16-year-old student was shot in the hip at Agape Christian Academy after a fight broke out at 2 pm. An innocent bystander was hit in his ankle by a stray bullet or shrapnel. The two victims were treated for non-life-threatening injuries. The suspected shooter reportedly fled in a car with several other males. He was not caught.[406][407][408]
October 21, 2013 Sparks, Nevada 2 2 12-year-old seventh-grade student Jose Reyes opened fire with a semi-automatic handgun at the basketball courts of Sparks Middle School, injuring one student in the shoulder. A teacher, Michael Landsberry, who was trying to intervene with the gunman was then shot and killed by Reyes, as he was standing on a playground. Reyes shot and wounded student who tried to come to Landsberry's assistance after he fell onto the ground. That student suffered an injury to his abdomen. Reyes then committed suicide by shooting himself in the head. The shooting happened before classes, and the school was evacuated and was closed for the week.[409][410][411]
November 3, 2013 Lithonia, Georgia 0 2 A Stephenson High School student and a janitor were shot in an apparent confrontation between team members and a group of teens who were not attending the school. Both were innocent bystanders in the ordeal.[414]
December 4, 2013 Winter Garden, Florida 0 1 A 15-year-old student was shot and wounded by a 17-year-old student near a soccer field on the campus of West Orange High School. The shooting occurred after a fight broke out between the two students. The 17-year-old suspected shooter was taken into custody several miles away from the school, and is charged with attempted murder, aggravated battery with a firearm, possession of a firearm by a minor and possession of a firearm on school grounds.[416][417]
December 19, 2013 Fresno, California 0 1 Four teens went into Edison High School in what was believed as a gang-initiation process. After accosting a 62-year-old woman about a mile away from school grounds, they found an athletic trainer who taught at Edison High and shot him several times in the leg and stomach. It took a few days for the youths to get caught, and this was cinched when the 62-year-old woman and some surveillance video gave police the information they needed.[421][422]
January 9, 2014 Jackson, Tennessee 0 1 A student was charged with bringing a gun to school at Liberty Technology Magnet High School and shooting a classmate in the thigh. The incident occurred outside the front of the school.[423][424]
January 13, 2014 New Haven, Connecticut 0 1 A 14-year-old boy was shot outside of a basketball game at the Hillhouse High School athletic facility, suffering wounds in his hand and leg.[425]
January 14, 2014 Roswell, New Mexico 0 3 Two people were shot and wounded inside the gymnasium of Berrendo Middle School, at about 8:10 am. An 11-year-old boy and a 13-year-old girl were airlifted to a hospital in Lubbock, Texas in critical condition. The 12-year-old suspected shooter, Mason Campbell, a seventh grade student, was apprehended at the scene after he was talked down by a staff member and dropped the shotgun. A staff member received minor injuries. Campbell is facing charges of three counts of aggravated battery with a deadly weapon. He faces a maximum sentence of confinement in a juvenile detention facility until he is 21 years old.[426][427][428]
January 17, 2014 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 0 2 A student allegedly shot two other students in the gymnasium at Delaware Valley Charter School. Both victims, a male and a female, were shot in the arm. They were taken to a nearby hospital and are in stable condition, police say. Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey said at a news conference that the shooter ran out of the school after the shooting but was taken into custody near his home. 17-year-old Raisheem Rochwell was arrested and charged as an adult for aggravated assault, recklessly endangering another person and firearms offenses.[429][430]
January 28, 2014 Honolulu, Hawai'i 0 2 A 17-year-old boy was shot in the wrist after attacking police officers with a kitchen knife at President Theodore Roosevelt High School. The 17-year-old was charged with attempted murder.[437]
January 31, 2014 Des Moines, Iowa 0 1 After a basketball game at North High School, there was gunfire in a parking lot of the school. Six males in a black jeep had came moments before the shooting and returned at the time it happened. A 15-year-old girl was injured by a ricocheting bullet. While officers were gaining control of the area, teachers on the scene led students into the school building for safety.[440]
February 10, 2014 Salisbury, North Carolina 0 1 A 16-year-old student was shot in the stomach on the campus of Salisbury High School during a dispute in the school gym. 17 year old suspect was charged with assault with a deadly weapon with intent to kill inflicting serious injury, possession of a firearm on school property and discharging a weapon on school property.[441]
March 25, 2014 College Park, Georgia 0 0 An argument between students led to shots being fired in a Benjamin Banneker High School parking lot during the afternoon. Investigators believe multiple people were present when shots were fired, but it was not known how many could face charges for the incident. No one was injured in the shooting.[448]
June 10, 2014 Troutdale, Oregon 2 1 At around 8:30 am, shots were fired at Reynolds High School. 14-year-old freshman Emilio Hoffman was killed,[462] a physical education teacher was injured, and the gunman, 15-year-old Jared Padgett, exchanged gunfire with police officers and then committed suicide in a restroom stall.[463][464]
September 9, 2014 Miami, Florida 0 1 Towards the end of the school day, one alternative school student in Miami was shot as a small group of students tussled. The injury was minor, requiring hospitalization, and five young adults were later questioned.[465]
September 30, 2014 Albemarle, North Carolina 0 1 Two students got in an argument at Albemarle High School around 7:30am on Tuesday, and one of the students shot the other twice including once in the leg. The student who committed the shooting was allegedly involved in a stabbing of a football player last year at West Montgomery High Schoo], which is only 20 miles (32 km) away in Mount Gilead, North Carolina. The school had held an active shooter training over the summer, which prepared the school for this incident.[467][468][469][470]
September 30, 2014 Louisville, Kentucky 0 1 One student was shot and injured at Fern Creek Traditional High School. The incident occurred around 1pm, reportedly after student became enraged in a hallway and pulled out a gun. The student was arrested later that day.[471][472]
October 24, 2014 Marysville, Washington 5 1 Marysville Pilchuck High School shooting. On October 24, 2014, at around 10:39 a.m. PST, officials ordered a lock-down of the school due to a "emergency situation." A gunman, later identified as Jaylen Fryberg, who was a student in the school, shot five students, fatally wounding four, in the school cafeteria before committing suicide.[475]
ok shall we count down how many now? and taking into account my area of coverage is about the same as yours but I had more factors involved like the shooter had to be 17 years old or younger unlike yours where you were not so discerning.
Do you that Scotland is presently forging ahead with its proposals that every child there has a named social worker/contact point whether or not it required?
But you didn't answer the points, what do you do if the child refuses to do any of the chores that you have given them? What do you do if the child refuses to eat the food put in front of them? Now you have said that they receive nothing until the next official meal time. Could that not be considered starvation? Because, somewhere, someone does.
While my examples are a bit extreme, some so called experts have opined that these forms of 'affection withdrawal' is a form of mental cruelty. Which leaves as many if not more scars than physical punishment, and tbh I consider mental cruelty even more abhorrent than I do physical cruelty.
Raising children is hard enough without someone else telling us how to do it.
So we now know that children shot up schools at a pretty similar rate over the past 40 years.
How does that prove that kids are worse now ever since we stopped beating them as much? Especially considering that the overall rate of childhood violent crime is decreasing decade by decade?
AndrewC wrote: What do you do if the child refuses to eat the food put in front of them? Now you have said that they receive nothing until the next official meal time. Could that not be considered starvation? Because, somewhere, someone does.
While my examples are a bit extreme, some so called experts have opined that these forms of 'affection withdrawal' is a form of mental cruelty. Which leaves as many if not more scars than physical punishment, and tbh I consider mental cruelty even more abhorrent than I do physical cruelty.
Raising children is hard enough without someone else telling us how to do it.
Cheers
Andrew
I'll address your last sentence first.... I completely agree that raising children is hard enough, and is only exacerbated by outside "help".
In my own experience, hunger ALWAYS takes over. With my kids, if they refuse to eat breakfast, they will chow down on lunch. If they didn't eat lunch, they chow down on dinner.... And I could be wrong, but everywhere that I've lived, if you can prove that you put enough food for kids to live and be healthy on in front of them, and they won't eat it, there isn't much the State can do to remove them (unless there are other, more egregious things going on)
See, I agree with you that mentally abusing kids is dead wrong, and quite often worse in the long run than physical... It's been my experience in having friends who grew up in a wide variety of houses that the ones who were physically abused "made it" much better than those who were mentally/emotionally abused. A couple of my buddies who bear the physical scars of alcoholic parents are among the best parents I've ever come across, AND their kids are well behaved.
I just disagree with you that taking toys away from kids, as a punishment for some offense is necessarily "wrong", much less abusive. However, I personally DO explain to my kids exactly why they are losing that particular toy, and what they have to do in order to get it back.
d-usa wrote: So we now know that children shot up schools at a pretty similar rate over the past 40 years.
How does that prove that kids are worse now ever since we stopped beating them as much? Especially considering that the overall rate of childhood violent crime is decreasing decade by decade?
actually do the math and remove the ones from their list that involve 18 year olds or older doing the shooting and you will see a sharp increase, furthermore the other graph which showed kids being arrested, when most school shootings of late the kids were not arrested but killed or commited suicide, if you compare my list to the other list and they say violent crimes have reduced, you have to wonder about that.
In the 90's an average of 210,000 10-19 year olds a year commited violent crimes.
In 2010 roughly 84,000 10-19 year olds a year commited a crime.
That means that 125,000 less children are commiting a violent crime each year than 2 decades ago.
Now if you want to continue to argue that this number is nonsense because a couple kids each year kill themselves instead of getting arrested then be my guest. It's a stupid argument, but you can keep on making it.
d-usa wrote: In the 90's an average of 210,000 10-19 year olds a year commited violent crimes.
In 2010 roughly 84,000 10-19 year olds a year commited a crime.
That means that 125,000 less children are commiting a violent crime each year than 2 decades ago.
Now if you want to continue to argue that this number is nonsense because a couple kids each year kill themselves instead of getting arrested then be my guest. It's a stupid argument, but you can keep on making it.
d-usa wrote: In the 90's an average of 210,000 10-19 year olds a year commited violent crimes.
In 2010 roughly 84,000 10-19 year olds a year commited a crime.
That means that 125,000 less children are commiting a violent crime each year than 2 decades ago.
Now if you want to continue to argue that this number is nonsense because a couple kids each year kill themselves instead of getting arrested then be my guest. It's a stupid argument, but you can keep on making it.
(That's math by the way).
so while overall killings (whats the number of 10-17 year olds?) are down, school shootings involving the same age groups are up ? do you see the error here?
d-usa wrote: In the 90's an average of 210,000 10-19 year olds a year commited violent crimes.
In 2010 roughly 84,000 10-19 year olds a year commited a crime.
That means that 125,000 less children are commiting a violent crime each year than 2 decades ago.
Now if you want to continue to argue that this number is nonsense because a couple kids each year kill themselves instead of getting arrested then be my guest. It's a stupid argument, but you can keep on making it.
(That's math by the way).
so while overall killings (whats the number of 10-17 year olds?) are down, school shootings involving the same age groups are up ? do you see the error here?
Makes the argument that children are worse now than 20 years ago because we don't beat them as much. Evidence shows that juvenile violent crime has fallen by more than 50% in the last two decades.
Presents anectode about neighborhood gangbangers as evidence. Ignores multiple actual nationwide statistics to the contrary.
Claims that school shootings are up and that this is evidence that children are now worse. Ignores evidence showing that it has remained largely unchanged.
d-usa wrote: In the 90's an average of 210,000 10-19 year olds a year commited violent crimes.
In 2010 roughly 84,000 10-19 year olds a year commited a crime.
That means that 125,000 less children are commiting a violent crime each year than 2 decades ago.
Now if you want to continue to argue that this number is nonsense because a couple kids each year kill themselves instead of getting arrested then be my guest. It's a stupid argument, but you can keep on making it.
(That's math by the way).
so while overall killings (whats the number of 10-17 year olds?) are down, school shootings involving the same age groups are up ? do you see the error here?
Makes the argument that children are worse now than 20 years ago because we don't beat them as much. Evidence shows that juvenile violent crime has fallen by more than 50% in the last two decades.
Presents anectode about neighborhood gangbangers as evidence. Ignores multiple actual nationwide statistics to the contrary.
Claims that school shootings are up and that this is evidence that children are now worse. Ignores evidence showing that it has remained largely unchanged.
I see the error alright.
no it just shows you don't know how to count, lets see shall we count the amount of incidents from 1961 to 1989 involving 17 year olds or younger at a school : 15, the number involving 17 year old kids or younger from 1990 - 2015 (note less time then the earlier listings 26 years as opposed to 29 years) : 91 an increase of 600%
and yet according to you they remained unchanged, and that's why I have lost faith in the schooling system, since addition does not seem to be a strong suit with you does it?
furthermore I never said beat them, spank, yes, even slap if necessary, but not beat.
furthermore the school shootings are national and these numbers do not lie as opposed to the numbers some others seem to be dredging up.
d-usa wrote: So we now know that children shot up schools at a pretty similar rate over the past 40 years.
How does that prove that kids are worse now ever since we stopped beating them as much? Especially considering that the overall rate of childhood violent crime is decreasing decade by decade?
actually do the math and remove the ones from their list that involve 18 year olds or older doing the shooting and you will see a sharp increase, furthermore the other graph which showed kids being arrested, when most school shootings of late the kids were not arrested but killed or commited suicide, if you compare my list to the other list and they say violent crimes have reduced, you have to wonder about that.
Why are you assuming that list is comprehensive? You're also neglecting the fact that school shootings account for approximately 0.0003% of homicides (and homicides only account for about 0.006% of all deaths)*. Even if school shootings are up 600% or whatever, overall homicide rates have dropped 50%, which simply means that school shootings account for about 0.004%. Those are some pretty scary numbers, there.
*The leading causes of death in the USA, in order, are as follows: heart disease, cancer, chronic lower respiratory diseases, accidents, stroke, alzheimers, diabetes, influenza/pneumonia, nephritis/nephrotic syndrome/nephrosis, and suicide, which account for about 73.5% of all deaths.
The numbers some others seem to be dredging up are national crime statistics collected and reported by local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies.
The numbers you are presenting as proof are a Wikipedia article. You know how Wikipedia works right? Wikipedia can be fairly accurate as long as stuff is cited, but the problem is that you have to find sources to cite. Just by nature of Wikipedia, and the internet as a whole, it will be much easier to find online sources for schootings that happened post-introduction of the internet. There are some dedicated folks on Wikipedia, but I honestly doubt that they are sitting at the library going through microfilms of newspapers to update the article on school shootings.
So I, and many others, are just going to go ahead and put our faiths in the nationally reported and federally maintaned statistics about juvenile violent crime instead of relying on an internet article that relies on other internet articles as a source which happens to find more internet sources for events that happened after the internet was invented.
Even if the Wikipedia article was 100% correct, the fact that 75 more children murdered someone in a 26 year span (which is a 500% increase and not a 600% increase, so maybe you should have less confidence in your own schooling) does not negate the fact that ~3,000,000 fever children commited violent crimes during that same timespan.
Which is basically what you are arguing:
You: Stuff is worse now. Everyone else: 3,000,000 less kids commited violent crimes in the last 25 years, so it's better. You: But 75 more kids shot up a school, so it's worse.
It just doesn't make sense.
If you truly care about facts, here is a good starting point if you are willing to actually read and do some research:
d-usa wrote: So we now know that children shot up schools at a pretty similar rate over the past 40 years.
How does that prove that kids are worse now ever since we stopped beating them as much? Especially considering that the overall rate of childhood violent crime is decreasing decade by decade?
actually do the math and remove the ones from their list that involve 18 year olds or older doing the shooting and you will see a sharp increase, furthermore the other graph which showed kids being arrested, when most school shootings of late the kids were not arrested but killed or commited suicide, if you compare my list to the other list and they say violent crimes have reduced, you have to wonder about that.
Why are you assuming that list is comprehensive? You're also neglecting the fact that school shootings account for approximately 0.0003% of homicides (and homicides only account for about 0.006% of all deaths)*. Even if school shootings are up 600% or whatever, overall homicide rates have dropped 50%, which simply means that school shootings account for about 0.004%. Those are some pretty scary numbers, there.
*The leading causes of death in the USA, in order, are as follows: heart disease, cancer, chronic lower respiratory diseases, accidents, stroke, alzheimers, diabetes, influenza/pneumonia, nephritis/nephrotic syndrome/nephrosis, and suicide, which account for about 73.5% of all deaths.
but you missed the discussion, we are not talking about all homicides but those committed by kids, and while there is not a comprehensive list for all murders committed by kids, there is one for school shootings, and then you have the numbers, you say murders are down, and yet school shootings are up and then some, those numbers do not corroborate with each other, if murders being committed by kids was dropping it would also lead to reason school shootings committed by kids would also be dropping, but they are not, they are climbing, and increasing at an alarming rate.
but you missed the discussion, we are not talking about all homicides but those committed by kids, and while there is not a comprehensive list for all murders committed by kids, there is one for school shootings, and then you have the numbers, you say murders are down, and yet school shootings are up and then some, those numbers do not corroborate with each other, if murders being committed by kids was dropping it would also lead to reason school shootings committed by kids would also be dropping, but they are not, they are climbing, and increasing at an alarming rate.
I'm surveying the toilets in Office Building A.
There are 100 fewer people a week pooping in Office 101.
There are 50 fewer people a week pooping in Office 102.
There are 20 more people a week pooping in Office 103.
Despite Office 103 punishing the toilets at an increasing rate, the pooping rate for Office Building A is still down.
but you missed the discussion, we are not talking about all homicides but those committed by kids, and while there is not a comprehensive list for all murders committed by kids, there is one for school shootings, and then you have the numbers, you say murders are down, and yet school shootings are up and then some, those numbers do not corroborate with each other, if murders being committed by kids was dropping it would also lead to reason school shootings committed by kids would also be dropping, but they are not, they are climbing, and increasing at an alarming rate.
I'm surveying the toilets in Office Building A.
There are 100 fewer people a week pooping in Office 101.
There are 50 fewer people a week pooping in Office 102.
There are 20 more people a week pooping in Office 103.
Despite Office 103 punishing the toilets at an increasing rate, the pooping rate for Office Building A is still down.
You need to learn statistics or stop posting...
I do know statistics, furthermore, as you said the reports in Wikipedia are vetted by the post scripts, furthermore you love pointing out statistics, yet fail to mention those statistics are based on reported crimes and arrests made, and don't realize the number of crimes that go unreported which are increasing with the increase of illegal immigration and their fear of law enforcement, furthermore the increase of murder/suicide incidents where there is no arrest made, and yet these are not taken into effect, I go by what I see, you say violent crime is dropping, I don't see that.
its just like the unemployment rate, everyone says its going down, when it is not, its based on those who are collecting unemployment, which does not last forever, statistics are based on what they know, not what is fact.
Violence is a tool. It happens to be a pretty serious tool with incredibly serious consequences, if it's a tool of reflex or of first resort something's gone horribly, horribly wrong somewhere along the line.
As to school shootings they get a lot of press because a morbid public is fascinated with listening to talking heads speculate about what might have driven someone they've never met to do something so drastic with absolutely no basis in fact. I don't know about the rest of you but Monte Cook hid no secret messages in my D&D books telling me to go out and shoot people. I don't see the point in dwelling on it or claiming school shootings are on the rise; what's the conclusion? What are you going to do about it? Make the government take the flourine out of the water so nobody goes crazy? Tax people into the ground to generate yet another caste of public employees that do an ineffective job because the workload is insane? Take away privately-owned guns and put us in a country where the only people who have guns are the police?
hotsauceman1 wrote: Man, they made sure that the kid was as unlikable and hittable as they could.
If they hadn't how would you get to air? You can get to air slapping Joffrey Baratheon, but if you can't make the kid at least that bad the 'empathy' part of the brain kicks in again and people notice that a family that's deteriorated that far is fethed up and then the show goes off air because any potential target audience thinks its barbaric.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Man, they made sure that the kid was as unlikable and hittable as they could.
that's what I told other people if they saw the show they would have been tempted to slap that kid, me I would have had him kicked out of the house before it got to that point.
but you missed the discussion, we are not talking about all homicides but those committed by kids, and while there is not a comprehensive list for all murders committed by kids, there is one for school shootings, and then you have the numbers, you say murders are down, and yet school shootings are up and then some, those numbers do not corroborate with each other, if murders being committed by kids was dropping it would also lead to reason school shootings committed by kids would also be dropping, but they are not, they are climbing, and increasing at an alarming rate.
I'm surveying the toilets in Office Building A.
There are 100 fewer people a week pooping in Office 101.
There are 50 fewer people a week pooping in Office 102.
There are 20 more people a week pooping in Office 103.
Despite Office 103 punishing the toilets at an increasing rate, the pooping rate for Office Building A is still down.
You need to learn statistics or stop posting...
I do know statistics, furthermore, as you said the reports in Wikipedia are vetted by the post scripts, furthermore you love pointing out statistics, yet fail to mention those statistics are based on reported crimes and arrests made, and don't realize the number of crimes that go unreported which are increasing with the increase of illegal immigration and their fear of law enforcement, furthermore the increase of murder/suicide incidents where there is no arrest made, and yet these are not taken into effect, I go by what I see, you say violent crime is dropping, I don't see that.
its just like the unemployment rate, everyone says its going down, when it is not, its based on those who are collecting unemployment, which does not last forever, statistics are based on what they know, not what is fact.
You: Stuff is worse.
Everybody else: No it isn't rates are going down.
You: No, my neighborhood is bad.
Everybody else: It's the lowest it has been in 2 decades after declining during that time.
You: But school shootings!
Everybody else: 3,000,000 less violent crimes.
You: But 75 more school shootings [insert random wrong statistical calculation for emphasis]
Everybody else: Here are statistics showing how wrong you are.
You: Numbers that don't exist prove me right!
but you missed the discussion, we are not talking about all homicides but those committed by kids, and while there is not a comprehensive list for all murders committed by kids, there is one for school shootings, and then you have the numbers, you say murders are down, and yet school shootings are up and then some, those numbers do not corroborate with each other, if murders being committed by kids was dropping it would also lead to reason school shootings committed by kids would also be dropping, but they are not, they are climbing, and increasing at an alarming rate.
I'm surveying the toilets in Office Building A.
There are 100 fewer people a week pooping in Office 101.
There are 50 fewer people a week pooping in Office 102.
There are 20 more people a week pooping in Office 103.
Despite Office 103 punishing the toilets at an increasing rate, the pooping rate for Office Building A is still down.
You need to learn statistics or stop posting...
I do know statistics, furthermore, as you said the reports in Wikipedia are vetted by the post scripts, furthermore you love pointing out statistics, yet fail to mention those statistics are based on reported crimes and arrests made, and don't realize the number of crimes that go unreported which are increasing with the increase of illegal immigration and their fear of law enforcement, furthermore the increase of murder/suicide incidents where there is no arrest made, and yet these are not taken into effect, I go by what I see, you say violent crime is dropping, I don't see that.
its just like the unemployment rate, everyone says its going down, when it is not, its based on those who are collecting unemployment, which does not last forever, statistics are based on what they know, not what is fact.
You: Stuff is worse.
Everybody else: No it isn't rates are going down.
You: No, my neighborhood is bad.
Everybody else: It's the lowest it has been in 2 decades after declining during that time.
You: But school shootings!
Everybody else: 3,000,000 less violent crimes.
You: But 75 more school shootings [insert random wrong statistical calculation for emphasis]
Everybody else: Here are statistics showing how wrong you are.
You: Numbers that don't exist prove me right!
Your hole is getting deeper
no as in a few years ago crime was very low or non existent in my neighborhood in the past few years it has increased, my neighbor's house was robbed by a 12 and 13 year old kids, a couple of 14-16 year olds went thru my neighborhood shooting randomly at houses, a 15 year old attacked a mother and her little child at gun point, and so on, and that's just on my block which was a nice neighborhood one time, it is going downhill rapidly, and then I see you spouting FBI statistics and wonder where they are pulling those numbers from.
in fact in 2012 Stockton had a murder rate of 1 per 8,839 residents.
here you need this shovel more then me.
also if crime is dropping why is police budgets all over increasing?
I don't care what part of the US you live in, nor what you think of immigrants, etc.
A dead body is a dead body, and I cant think of too many instances where cops ARENT called due to the presence of a cold meat bag comprised of formerly "human" components.
What I'm saying is, regardless of whether a kid shoots someone else, then themselves, or whatever, the "crime" is reported. Nobody outside of John Wayne Gacy, Jefferey Dahmer or someone of that level of crazy is going to live with a dead body. There's not hundreds to thousands of unreported dead things lying around just hoping to get noticed.
hotsauceman1 wrote: So, your town is indicative of all other places in the country?
no, but why is my town different? what makes us unique? unique so much are rates are much higher then average and yet I feel much safer here then other places?
I don't care what part of the US you live in, nor what you think of immigrants, etc.
A dead body is a dead body, and I cant think of too many instances where cops ARENT called due to the presence of a cold meat bag comprised of formerly "human" components.
What I'm saying is, regardless of whether a kid shoots someone else, then themselves, or whatever, the "crime" is reported. Nobody outside of John Wayne Gacy, Jefferey Dahmer or someone of that level of crazy is going to live with a dead body. There's not hundreds to thousands of unreported dead things lying around just hoping to get noticed.
actually they are finding dead bodies quite a bit, sometimes buried in the yard and so on, so yeah there is, furthermore, its also a stated fact with several sources which state over 3 million assault crimes go unreported each year.
Please for the love of god (and I'm atheist) just take some introductory courses in Critical Thinking, Morals, Ethics, Logic and Statistics this is painful to read.
in fact in 2012 Stockton had a murder rate of 1 per 8,839 residents.
here you need this shovel more then me.
also if crime is dropping why is police budgets all over increasing?
So Stocking is a gakhole, we get it.
1. police budgets for the most part are going down.
2. Where they are going up is usually due to a couple of things
a. increased hiring to assuage fears, as well as additional public relations
b. MRAPs are expensive as feth.
Outside of a select few areas of the US, crime IS dropping. I know it's hard to see that through your armored blinds and reinforced concrete, but it is. Places that are going to be "bad" are areas where there's a whole lot of negativity going on as a whole (Detroit and Flint, MI being prime examples), but those places aren't really indicative of the whole country any more than Stockton is.
By your logic, the entire US is being overrun with hipster d-bags, because I see them everywhere around Tacoma and Seattle.
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Asterios wrote: its also a stated fact with several sources which state over 3 million assault crimes go unreported each year.
Riddle me this Batman... how the feth do you get a "concrete number" like 3 million for "unreported" crimes annually?? They are UNREPORTED!!
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Cheesecat wrote: Please for the love of god (and I'm atheist) just take some introductory courses in Critical Thinking, Morals, Ethics, Logic and Statistics this is painful to read.
Statistics is a painful class (I know, Im in it right now)... but this thread is making me feel good about that class
no as in a few years ago crime was very low or non existent in my neighborhood in the past few years it has increased, my neighbor's house was robbed by a 12 and 13 year old kids, a couple of 14-16 year olds went thru my neighborhood shooting randomly at houses, a 15 year old attacked a mother and her little child at gun point, and so on, and that's just on my block which was a nice neighborhood one time, it is going downhill rapidly, and then I see you spouting FBI statistics and wonder where they are pulling those numbers from.
You're neighborhood is Office 103.
in fact in 2012 Stockton had a murder rate of 1 per 8,839 residents.
here you need this shovel more then me.
I'm in Office 101 and 102 with the rest of the guys that understand how statistics work, I don't need it.
also if crime is dropping why is police budgets all over increasing?
Apart from the "is crime dropping because police budgets are increasing" possibility, as well as crime including more than just violent crime, probably a mix of the following:
1) Inflation = more money spend on wages just to keep up.
2) Increased tax revenue = more money available to spend, so you spend it to justify taxing people.
3) Increased policing for profit = more money spend on police to make more money.
4) Increased populations and growing cities = a growth rate that is higher than the drop in crime rate still results in a net increase in the number of crimes, requiring more policing.
5) Corruption.
6) Spend it or loose it.
1) Inflation = more money spend on wages just to keep up.
2) Increased tax revenue = more money available to spend, so you spend it to justify taxing people.
3) Increased policing for profit = more money spend on police to make more money.
4) Increased populations and growing cities = a growth rate that is higher than the drop in crime rate still results in a net increase in the number of crimes, requiring more policing.
5) Corruption.
6) Spend it or loose it.
7) MRAPs... seriously, can't forget MRAPs. And, you know they deserve their own category
in fact in 2012 Stockton had a murder rate of 1 per 8,839 residents.
here you need this shovel more then me.
also if crime is dropping why is police budgets all over increasing?
So Stocking is a gakhole, we get it.
1. police budgets for the most part are going down.
2. Where they are going up is usually due to a couple of things
a. increased hiring to assuage fears, as well as additional public relations
b. MRAPs are expensive as feth.
Outside of a select few areas of the US, crime IS dropping. I know it's hard to see that through your armored blinds and reinforced concrete, but it is. Places that are going to be "bad" are areas where there's a whole lot of negativity going on as a whole (Detroit and Flint, MI being prime examples), but those places aren't really indicative of the whole country any more than Stockton is.
By your logic, the entire US is being overrun with hipster d-bags, because I see them everywhere around Tacoma and Seattle.
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Asterios wrote: its also a stated fact with several sources which state over 3 million assault crimes go unreported each year.
Riddle me this Batman... how the feth do you get a "concrete number" like 3 million for "unreported" crimes annually?? They are UNREPORTED!!
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Cheesecat wrote: Please for the love of god (and I'm atheist) just take some introductory courses in Critical Thinking, Morals, Ethics, Logic and Statistics this is painful to read.
Statistics is a painful class (I know, Im in it right now)... but this thread is making me feel good about that class
the 3 million is what is reported by several news agencies. furthermore the increase of police budgets is reported by the US Gov. site
and yes D-Bags are taking over the world, they are everywhere and they meet at the local Starbucks.
and I repeat statistics are only based on what is know and assumed, it is not based on facts, nobody asked me or my neighbors about the bullet holes in our houses put there by 15 year old kids, and no they were not reported since why bother, the cops won't do anything.
its like what I said about unemployment rates dropping, they only use one of the statistics for that and not the true statistic which has the unemployment rate much higher at around 22% or so according to the government site.
watching a report now how Sacramento is voting to install a shotspotter surveillance system, like we have here in Stockton. its a virus man its spreading soon the rest of the country will be messed up like Stockton.
hotsauceman1 wrote: So, your town is indicative of all other places in the country?
no, but why is my town different? what makes us unique? unique so much are rates are much higher then average and yet I feel much safer here then other places?
.
This is a normal curve
Most of america is withing the 68% when it comes to crime, being relitively low.
Stockton is ALL the way to the right, the high end of the curve. Notice how small that 2.15% is? It is small and does not represent america.
God, I suck at statistics, an I understand this.
hotsauceman1 wrote: So, your town is indicative of all other places in the country?
no, but why is my town different? what makes us unique? unique so much are rates are much higher then average and yet I feel much safer here then other places?
.
This is a normal curve
Most of america is withing the 68% when it comes to crime, being relitively low.
Stockton is ALL the way to the right, the high end of the curve. Notice how small that 2.15% is? It is small and does not represent america.
God, I suck at statistics, an I understand this.
actually the Bell Curve is very unreliable to say the least.
but everybody still ignores the fact that in the past 26 years shootings in schools committed by kids 17 or younger increased by 500% over the previous 29 years., but then that must be a fluke since statistics say crime is going down, and I repeat where?
hotsauceman1 wrote: So, your town is indicative of all other places in the country?
no, but why is my town different? what makes us unique? unique so much are rates are much higher then average and yet I feel much safer here then other places?
.
This is a normal curve
Most of america is withing the 68% when it comes to crime, being relitively low.
Stockton is ALL the way to the right, the high end of the curve. Notice how small that 2.15% is? It is small and does not represent america.
God, I suck at statistics, an I understand this.
actually the Bell Curve is very unreliable to say the least.
Well, good to know, I can tell my stats teacher all his research is bunk.
hotsauceman1 wrote: So, your town is indicative of all other places in the country?
no, but why is my town different? what makes us unique? unique so much are rates are much higher then average and yet I feel much safer here then other places?
.
This is a normal curve
Most of america is withing the 68% when it comes to crime, being relitively low.
Stockton is ALL the way to the right, the high end of the curve. Notice how small that 2.15% is? It is small and does not represent america.
God, I suck at statistics, an I understand this.
actually the Bell Curve is very unreliable to say the least.
Well, good to know, I can tell my stats teacher all his research is bunk.
actually a lot of schools stopped using the bell curve since it was unreliable, not sure how, but that's the story they are giving.
Ensis Ferrae wrote: Statistics is a painful class (I know, Im in it right now)... but this thread is making me feel good about that class
Totally agree I'm horrible at math, the only thing I really have a talent for is visual arts, cooking and consuming media and art, boy I'm going far in life.
actually the Bell Curve is very unreliable to say the least.
Now you are just precious.
but everybody still ignores the fact that in the past 26 years shootings in schools committed by kids 17 or younger increased by 500% over the previous 29 years., but then that must be a fluke since statistics say crime is going down, and I repeat where?
On Friday 10 people each punch you in the face 1 time.
On Saturday 1 person punches you 6 times.
hotsauceman1 wrote: So, your town is indicative of all other places in the country?
no, but why is my town different? what makes us unique? unique so much are rates are much higher then average and yet I feel much safer here then other places?
.
This is a normal curve
Most of america is withing the 68% when it comes to crime, being relitively low.
Stockton is ALL the way to the right, the high end of the curve. Notice how small that 2.15% is? It is small and does not represent america.
God, I suck at statistics, an I understand this.
actually the Bell Curve is very unreliable to say the least.
Well, good to know, I can tell my stats teacher all his research is bunk.
actually a lot of schools stopped using the bell curve since it was unreliable, not sure how, but that's the story they are giving.
The bellcurve is still very much alive an well. But sure, continue to ignore the facts.
Screw it, there are naked women out on my lawn so im going to go look at that.
actually the Bell Curve is very unreliable to say the least.
Now you are just precious.
but everybody still ignores the fact that in the past 26 years shootings in schools committed by kids 17 or younger increased by 500% over the previous 29 years., but then that must be a fluke since statistics say crime is going down, and I repeat where?
On Friday 10 people each punch you in the face 1 time.
On Saturday 1 person punches you 6 times.
On what day were you punched more often?
and yet you still ignore the facts, that shows in the past 26 years 76+ more shootings in schools were committed by kids 17 and under then in the 29 years before, and you say its the same, tell me where did you learn to count?
and yet you still ignore the facts, that shows in the past 26 years 76+ more shootings in schools were committed by kids 17 and under then in the 29 years before, and you say its the same, tell me where did you learn to count?
On Friday 10 people each punch you in the face 1 time.
On Saturday 1 person punches you 6 times.
hotsauceman1 wrote: My god guys, have you seen what he has done? He has gotten people on dakka who normally disagree and fight to join hands.......
Only way to complete the circle here is if sirlynchmob shows up on our side
now THAT would be a day for Dakka to remember.
I'm just waiting for that... keep it up.
And Asterios, the Bell Curve is still very much used today in statistics.
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MrDwhitey wrote: Ah, I always love the "Lets agree to disagree" line when it's used for "I'm completely wrong but still want to hold onto my wrongness".
ok you guys still say crime is down, yet you keep forgetting the all presence fact of statistics, which is they are based on a % of the population, to give you an idea, say a city in one year has 1,000 crimes with 100,000 citizens so that would be a 1% crime rate, now say the population doubles next year to 200,000 citizens, and this time there are 2,000 crimes committed, has the crime rate gone up? not according to your statistics since the crime rate is still at 1%.
now according to the FBI crime is down (which you guys keep spouting) yet that goes in the face of the fact Prisons are over crowding and new ones being made that are overcrowded, if crime was down, the prisons should not be overcrowded should they?
now here is the instance where we are both right, crime is up with more people committing crimes, but the statistics say other wise because of the increase in population.
as to the bell curve, it is flawed in that it does not account for variables and selections, the bell curve works in the perfect world, but in reality it can be altered and become permeable by just one action, and become totally wrong by the lack of another action. actions its not designed to allow for.
Asterios wrote: now according to the FBI crime is down (which you guys keep spouting) yet that goes in the face of the fact Prisons are over crowding and new ones being made that are overcrowded, if crime was down, the prisons should not be overcrowded should they?.
Well, the fact that prisons are overcrowded may be the reason that crime is going down. Here's a quote from an article I recently read:
The scholarly consensus is that mass incarceration accounted for about 10 to 20 percent of the overall crime drop since 1992. “If you did a thought experiment, let’s add a million people to the prison system, and let’s suppose 1 percent of them are really serious habitual offenders who commit 50 crimes per year, that’s a reduction of half a million crimes,” Roman says. “Whether the destruction of communities associated with mass incarceration is worth it? That’s a completely different question.”
There are quite a few theories as to why crime is falling, from abortion legalization, lead gas reduction, technology, economic boom of the 90's etc. Its really an interesting topic deserving of its own thread.
There are quite a few theories as to why crime is falling, from abortion legalization, lead gas reduction, technology, economic boom of the 90's etc. Its really an interesting topic deserving of its own thread.
I'd still say that the access of pr0n has contributed to the decrease of crime.
If you're stressed out, as the great kronkonian used to say:
Rub one out!
Asterios wrote: now according to the FBI crime is down (which you guys keep spouting) yet that goes in the face of the fact Prisons are over crowding and new ones being made that are overcrowded, if crime was down, the prisons should not be overcrowded should they?.
Well, the fact that prisons are overcrowded may be the reason that crime is going down. Here's a quote from an article I recently read:
The scholarly consensus is that mass incarceration accounted for about 10 to 20 percent of the overall crime drop since 1992. “If you did a thought experiment, let’s add a million people to the prison system, and let’s suppose 1 percent of them are really serious habitual offenders who commit 50 crimes per year, that’s a reduction of half a million crimes,” Roman says. “Whether the destruction of communities associated with mass incarceration is worth it? That’s a completely different question.”
There are quite a few theories as to why crime is falling, from abortion legalization, lead gas reduction, technology, economic boom of the 90's etc. Its really an interesting topic deserving of its own thread.
the problem is the amount of people committing crimes is not dropping, its just the population increasing, say you have 100 people and 10 commit a crime, next year you then have 200 people and 10 commit a crime, according to statistics the crime rate has dropped in half, even though the same number of people committed crimes.
There are quite a few theories as to why crime is falling, from abortion legalization, lead gas reduction, technology, economic boom of the 90's etc. Its really an interesting topic deserving of its own thread.
I'd still say that the access of pr0n has contributed to the decrease of crime.
If you're stressed out, as the great kronkonian used to say:
Rub one out!
Actually Television and especially the news has led to upticks in crime like school shootings, the way the news coverage spotlights school shootings and pretty much makes the shooter look like a rock star with his name being mentioned every minute, it causes others who are so inclined for doing something stupid to think I could do that and become famous. and the internet even adds to that.
If you are talking about crime as a whole, yes, it is generally decreasing. This is a trend we can see.
There are certain crimes that HAVE gone up, such as Identity Theft. The reason why ID theft has gone up is because guys who tried making a living on it, have now realized that the money isn't there any more. In the 1990s, it was estimated that a good, usable ID was worth around $10,000. Now, a list of 100k names and information is worth around $100.
I think that we have shown that there's not been a significant increase in actual school shootings in recent years, however, there HAS been a seismic change in how they are covered by the media. This coverage definitely gives off that they are significantly rising because it's sensational and apparently draws in viewers.
Perhaps Dakka's resident senior citizen can help us here... in the 60s and 70s, even the 80s (so basically, pre-CNN), would you EVER hear about a school shooting in, let's use the Puyallup/Spanaway location from 87, if you lived in a place other than Washington?
To my own memory, the Thurston High shooting was among the first to be really sensationalized. However, I live in Oregon where it happened, which may affect it's coverage. The next one I really remember is Columbine. And yet, according to Wikipedia, there were 2 or 3 shootings in between those.
Ensis Ferrae wrote: If you are talking about crime as a whole, yes, it is generally decreasing. This is a trend we can see.
There are certain crimes that HAVE gone up, such as Identity Theft. The reason why ID theft has gone up is because guys who tried making a living on it, have now realized that the money isn't there any more. In the 1990s, it was estimated that a good, usable ID was worth around $10,000. Now, a list of 100k names and information is worth around $100.
I think that we have shown that there's not been a significant increase in actual school shootings in recent years, however, there HAS been a seismic change in how they are covered by the media. This coverage definitely gives off that they are significantly rising because it's sensational and apparently draws in viewers.
Perhaps Dakka's resident senior citizen can help us here... in the 60s and 70s, even the 80s (so basically, pre-CNN), would you EVER hear about a school shooting in, let's use the Puyallup/Spanaway location from 87, if you lived in a place other than Washington?
To my own memory, the Thurston High shooting was among the first to be really sensationalized. However, I live in Oregon where it happened, which may affect it's coverage. The next one I really remember is Columbine. And yet, according to Wikipedia, there were 2 or 3 shootings in between those.
actually with identity theft, the internet has helped that a lot (think of the Nigerian prince), as to news, it has not made access to more school shootings to make it seem there is an uptick, it just sensationalizes it which causes more kids wanting to do it to become famous, me I've lived for well over 40 years (yeah we'll say that much) and I've seen school shootings go from maybe a couple a year to much more, with some kids seeing if they can outdo the one before by having a larger body count, then there is the ones who are going for suicide by cop, which was the prevalent way for some kids to get attention before school shootings became the new fad.
while the percentages will say crime is down, the numbers do not as said earlier. and that's going by the actual number of crimes being committed as opposed the percentage of the crimes being committed based on the population size.
Ensis Ferrae wrote: If you are talking about crime as a whole, yes, it is generally decreasing. This is a trend we can see.
There are certain crimes that HAVE gone up, such as Identity Theft. The reason why ID theft has gone up is because guys who tried making a living on it, have now realized that the money isn't there any more. In the 1990s, it was estimated that a good, usable ID was worth around $10,000. Now, a list of 100k names and information is worth around $100.
I think that we have shown that there's not been a significant increase in actual school shootings in recent years, however, there HAS been a seismic change in how they are covered by the media. This coverage definitely gives off that they are significantly rising because it's sensational and apparently draws in viewers.
Perhaps Dakka's resident senior citizen can help us here... in the 60s and 70s, even the 80s (so basically, pre-CNN), would you EVER hear about a school shooting in, let's use the Puyallup/Spanaway location from 87, if you lived in a place other than Washington?
To my own memory, the Thurston High shooting was among the first to be really sensationalized. However, I live in Oregon where it happened, which may affect it's coverage. The next one I really remember is Columbine. And yet, according to Wikipedia, there were 2 or 3 shootings in between those.
actually with identity theft, the internet has helped that a lot (think of the Nigerian prince), as to news, it has not made access to more school shootings to make it seem there is an uptick, it just sensationalizes it which causes more kids wanting to do it to become famous, me I've lived for well over 40 years (yeah we'll say that much) and I've seen school shootings go from maybe a couple a year to much more, with some kids seeing if they can outdo the one before by having a larger body count, then there is the ones who are going for suicide by cop, which was the prevalent way for some kids to get attention before school shootings became the new fad.
while the percentages will say crime is down, the numbers do not as said earlier. and that's going by the actual number of crimes being committed as opposed the percentage of the crimes being committed based on the population size.
I want your sources confirming that children are trying to become famous through school shootings and that they are trying to outdo each other.
You are sounding more and more like Clint Eastwood's character from Gran Torino. DURN KIDS GET OFF MA LAWN!
actually with identity theft, the internet has helped that a lot (think of the Nigerian prince)
Helped?? How? It's more prevalent now than ever.... It just also happens to be extremely devalued.
From a book I was reading while stationed in Germany (I'll have to ask the coworker who owned it what it was called), the way "profitable" ID theft works now is quite a bit different than even 10 years ago. 10 years ago, you could pose as a Nigerian Prince, The FBI Director, etc. get people to respond to your email and get their information. Now, banks are on to that and stop it before much damage can be done.
Now, what ID Thieves have to do in order to be viable as a "profession" is go after unsecured information. The way they do that is to "intercept" the data packets sent between hospitals and insurance companies, or hospitals and banks. See, each system individually is encrypted with it's own special version of encryption, however they often travel via rather "unsecured" means (because seriously, of all the insurance companies, banks and hospitals, etc. how many of them are all going to hire the exact SAME company for encryption??) This means that the ID thieves, instead of getting one name and ruining it, they get 100,000 names, of which the people who use them can maybe get between 5-10 "usable" IDs out of it.
Hence why, instead of being able to be paid between 1-10k dollars, they can make maybe 100 off of a whole list of names.
actually with identity theft, the internet has helped that a lot (think of the Nigerian prince)
Helped?? How? It's more prevalent now than ever.... It just also happens to be extremely devalued.
From a book I was reading while stationed in Germany (I'll have to ask the coworker who owned it what it was called), the way "profitable" ID theft works now is quite a bit different than even 10 years ago. 10 years ago, you could pose as a Nigerian Prince, The FBI Director, etc. get people to respond to your email and get their information. Now, banks are on to that and stop it before much damage can be done.
Now, what ID Thieves have to do in order to be viable as a "profession" is go after unsecured information. The way they do that is to "intercept" the data packets sent between hospitals and insurance companies, or hospitals and banks. See, each system individually is encrypted with it's own special version of encryption, however they often travel via rather "unsecured" means (because seriously, of all the insurance companies, banks and hospitals, etc. how many of them are all going to hire the exact SAME company for encryption??) This means that the ID thieves, instead of getting one name and ruining it, they get 100,000 names, of which the people who use them can maybe get between 5-10 "usable" IDs out of it.
Hence why, instead of being able to be paid between 1-10k dollars, they can make maybe 100 off of a whole list of names.
no I meant the internet has made identity theft much easier, also with identity theft you are lowballing it, since the right theft could net a lot of money, my folks had their identity stolen and had credit cards opened in their name and such (this was 6 years ago) I managed to track where the thieves were and informed the local law of their location and the evidence against them, they were apprehended, but not after running up thousands of dollars of items they stuck the credit companies with.
no I meant the internet has made identity theft much easier, also with identity theft you are lowballing it, since the right theft could net a lot of money, my folks had their identity stolen and had credit cards opened in their name and such (this was 6 years ago) I managed to track where the thieves were and informed the local law of their location and the evidence against them, they were apprehended, but not after running up thousands of dollars of items they stuck the credit companies with.
I feel bad for your parents, however, for the most part, the actual ID thieves, and the people who ruin lives are two separate entities.
As an example. Just last year, when the USA Eagles played against Uruguay for a spot in the Rugby World Cup (later this year!) my friend and rugby coach, along with a group of our HS players, went out to Atlanta to watch the game... The game was on Saturday, so they drove up Friday, got a hotel and had dinner. On Saturday, at dinner, he tried swiping his card (the same one as the hotel and dinner the previous night), only to find out that it had been "stolen"
When he called up the card company, he was informed that he had spent over 6k (on a 4k limit card, somehow) at various Walmarts around the Southeastern US. He had previously informed his bank/card companies that he would be in Atlanta that weekend, so other locations should have flagged for activity. They responded with, "well sir, these charges show that your physical card was swiped at those locations)... The problem with THAT is, that the various charges were about 6 minutes apart, but they were about as far apart as you could imagine... Like, New Orleans, Birmingham Alabama, Louisville Kentucky, Raleigh NC....
Long story short, eventually the money thing got sorted out, LE called in and they had tracked the information and were tracking a "ring" of thieves.
10 people slap you once Friday.
1 person slaps you 6 times Saturday.
What day were you slapped more.
Until you can answer a simple question there is absolutely no point waiting the bandwidth on you to even try to explain rates to you, especially since your revaluations were already addressed pages ago. (Ex: your "if crime is down why more police" question and my "more people at a lower crime rate can still mean more net crime" answer).
Dreadwinter wrote: I still want your sources confirming that children are trying to become famous through school shootings and that they are trying to outdo each other.
also Psychology today is a well respected source amongst many.
While true, what you linked to was still an editorial.
The problem with this "theory", and I've seen mental health "experts" on various news programs (CNN, Faux, etc) (and the reason I put experts in quotes, is because I can't even recall the number of times I've seen these people on those shows where credentials are shown, and none have a degree in psychology, psychiatry or even related fields), postulating just such a thing... The problem with it is that there's really no scientific way to study it directly. Sure, we could look at other avenues, or other situations, but it isn't the same at all. On top of that, every human brain is different. I mean, sure, at the scientific level a thought is merely the electrical connection between two points in the brain, but the fact still remains that everyone thinks differently, everyone feels differently, etc. The one commonality most school shooters have, is having been on/taking anti-depressant medications.... And I don't really want to go down that rabbit hole (we had a whole thread on it from the last time school shootings were talked about), so suffice it to say that for the majority of people who are prescribed these drugs, they work fairly well.
d-usa wrote: Confusing "editorials" with "sources" explains a lot.
you don't read do you? if you did you would have also seen corroborating evidence in the articles (especially the second one) to said articles.
but then again you think everything is all wine and roses.
also Psychology today is a well respected source amongst many.
I could spent the next 30 minutes holding your hand and walking you through the process of actually critically evaluating an article, following the references, and seeing if there is any actual evidence to back up the conclusion of the author.
Or maybe I could have you read your own link where your corroborating evidence isn't corroborating what you are saying:
Scientific Guy wrote:Although it is not known for certain whether mass shootings also show a media-driven copycat effect.
So to continue the previous list:
You: Stuff is worse.
Everybody else: No it isn't rates are going down.
You: No, my neighborhood is bad.
Everybody else: It's the lowest it has been in 2 decades after declining during that time.
You: But school shootings!
Everybody else: 3,000,000 less violent crimes.
You: But 75 more school shootings [insert random wrong statistical calculation for emphasis]
Everybody else: Here are statistics showing how wrong you are.
You: Numbers that don't exist prove me right!
Everybody else: Why don't you provide a source showing you are right?
You: Here it is! [posts editorial and another source saying "there is no way to know if OP is right".
But hey, keep it up!
also Psychology today is a well respected source amongst many.
An editorial in a well respected journal is still an editorial and not a peer reviewed article.
10 people slap you once on Friday.
1 person slaps you six times on Saturday.
What day were you slapped more?
The science is in ™ and has been for years. Hitting kids doesn't teach them crap. They'll toe the line while the authority figure who hits them is around and not act out because they don't want to get hurt. However when they're removed from that authority figure and/or think that figure won't find out they'll act out all the same. It has basically no deterrent effect outside the immediate threat.
Anyone has the right responsibility to stop Kid A from walloping Kid B with a baseball bat, or whatever silly situation this show has cooked up. As children should not be hit with baseball bats. In most situations it's trivially easy to do without hitting the kid.
Is it a real bat or a play bat? If some kid came at my kid with a real bat I would have punted them through the field goal of Life, and likely their parents shortly after.
zombiekila707 wrote: It sounds stupid I don't approve. Don't beat your kids punish them by making do choirs or work on a farm. Nothing is worse then shoveling cow gak for a couple hours. Gives you time to think and learn from you mistakes.
Then victory will be yours.
I guarantee it.
And if they refuse to do the chores? What do you do? Not give them dinner? Child cruelty. Take away their toys? Mental cruelty. And the list goes on.
Raising a child is one of the hardest things that we can ever do, and the authorities are constantly looking over our shoulders for the slightest infractions 'against the rights of the child'. Child misbehaves and the parents don't do anything, bad parents! Not capable of controlling a child. Child misbehaves and gets a smacked backside. Bad parents! Physical punishments are child abuse.
Either stance taken to the extreme does more harm than good. But finding that middle path is next to impossible with all these backseat drivers who think they know best, even though they don't have children of their own.
Cheers
Andrew
I agree man just going off my own personal experience where my dad made me do choirs after doing something "Bad" I look back and I am glad what my dad taught me with out the use of violence. Me personally though no I am never gonna have kids I feel that is something I unprepared for.
There are plenty of people on the planet anyways why bring another into the mix.
I'm eagerly awaiting 20 years time when we aren't allowed to take things away from kids to discipline them as it causes psychological distress. /cynical
I've watched both episodes, and I have to say, I like it for the most part. The cast of the show is fething unbelievable, and I wonder what dirt did the director dig up on them to force them into the show? Otherwise for the actual story, I like it. It's a fairly simple drama (in regards to what the drama is about) compared to most other shows these days that aren't AMC, and is well acted for the most part.
The only thing I don't like about the show is the characters of the hippie parents. All I have to say is, what the feth? Those are probably some of the worst parents I've ever seen, and they're so damn bratty and irresponsible for the raising of their kid, I can't help but sympathize with the aggressive donkey-cave character who went so far as to beat his wife on the show. It really suspends my belief whenever they appear, as they just act insane/like children.
However, I'd have ot say I like the rest of the show. As somebody who has a very, very large family, it's somewhat believable (ignoring the crazy hippies), and I have seen a fair share of family drama. I could see, and have seen fallout I expect the show to contain in real life with my own family (albeit over different causes).
Although I also have to question what the hell is everyone blabbering about. The weird child of the weird couple was swinging a bat around at speeds capable of doing serious, serious damage to the children around him. I can definitely understand why the dude's anger flared enough that he smacked the kid. While I don't necessarily agree with the reaction outright, I can understand it and don't see why the hell it would warrant any prosecution. It's not like he drew blood or caused damage to the brain- that was already done by the parents who seem to take poor care of a kid that clearly has special needs.
Wyzilla wrote: I've watched both episodes, and I have to say, I like it for the most part. The cast of the show is fething unbelievable, and I wonder what dirt did the director dig up on them to force them into the show? Otherwise for the actual story, I like it. It's a fairly simple drama (in regards to what the drama is about) compared to most other shows these days that aren't AMC, and is well acted for the most part.
The only thing I don't like about the show is the characters of the hippie parents. All I have to say is, what the feth? Those are probably some of the worst parents I've ever seen, and they're so damn bratty and irresponsible for the raising of their kid, I can't help but sympathize with the aggressive donkey-cave character who went so far as to beat his wife on the show. It really suspends my belief whenever they appear, as they just act insane/like children.
However, I'd have ot say I like the rest of the show. As somebody who has a very, very large family, it's somewhat believable (ignoring the crazy hippies), and I have seen a fair share of family drama. I could see, and have seen fallout I expect the show to contain in real life with my own family (albeit over different causes).
Although I also have to question what the hell is everyone blabbering about. The weird child of the weird couple was swinging a bat around at speeds capable of doing serious, serious damage to the children around him. I can definitely understand why the dude's anger flared enough that he smacked the kid. While I don't necessarily agree with the reaction outright, I can understand it and don't see why the hell it would warrant any prosecution. It's not like he drew blood or caused damage to the brain- that was already done by the parents who seem to take poor care of a kid that clearly has special needs.
Im not sure he is special needs really. or atleast born that way, i think it is the parents mostly.
And I have to wonder, With the director puting the hippies in the dingy apartment, the guy in a big home overlooking the water, is he trying to frame this as a class war or something? If so, he somehow got me rooting for the rich guy.
Wyzilla wrote: I've watched both episodes, and I have to say, I like it for the most part. The cast of the show is fething unbelievable, and I wonder what dirt did the director dig up on them to force them into the show? Otherwise for the actual story, I like it. It's a fairly simple drama (in regards to what the drama is about) compared to most other shows these days that aren't AMC, and is well acted for the most part.
The only thing I don't like about the show is the characters of the hippie parents. All I have to say is, what the feth? Those are probably some of the worst parents I've ever seen, and they're so damn bratty and irresponsible for the raising of their kid, I can't help but sympathize with the aggressive donkey-cave character who went so far as to beat his wife on the show. It really suspends my belief whenever they appear, as they just act insane/like children.
However, I'd have ot say I like the rest of the show. As somebody who has a very, very large family, it's somewhat believable (ignoring the crazy hippies), and I have seen a fair share of family drama. I could see, and have seen fallout I expect the show to contain in real life with my own family (albeit over different causes).
Although I also have to question what the hell is everyone blabbering about. The weird child of the weird couple was swinging a bat around at speeds capable of doing serious, serious damage to the children around him. I can definitely understand why the dude's anger flared enough that he smacked the kid. While I don't necessarily agree with the reaction outright, I can understand it and don't see why the hell it would warrant any prosecution. It's not like he drew blood or caused damage to the brain- that was already done by the parents who seem to take poor care of a kid that clearly has special needs.
Im not sure he is special needs really. or atleast born that way, i think it is the parents mostly.
And I have to wonder, With the director puting the hippies in the dingy apartment, the guy in a big home overlooking the water, is he trying to frame this as a class war or something? If so, he somehow got me rooting for the rich guy.
Same here. Although considering the family is a group of Greek Immigrants, he probably didn't start out rich, and rather built that entire business up by himself.
But yeah, the writers screwed up with the artist's family if they want them to be the sympathetic characters. They come off as loons, especially how the mother is breast feeding a kid who's what, four, five years old? And drinking? No wonder why the child is messed up- his mother's milk is probably contaminated with liquor.
Wyzilla wrote: I've watched both episodes, and I have to say, I like it for the most part. The cast of the show is fething unbelievable, and I wonder what dirt did the director dig up on them to force them into the show? Otherwise for the actual story, I like it. It's a fairly simple drama (in regards to what the drama is about) compared to most other shows these days that aren't AMC, and is well acted for the most part.
The only thing I don't like about the show is the characters of the hippie parents. All I have to say is, what the feth? Those are probably some of the worst parents I've ever seen, and they're so damn bratty and irresponsible for the raising of their kid, I can't help but sympathize with the aggressive donkey-cave character who went so far as to beat his wife on the show. It really suspends my belief whenever they appear, as they just act insane/like children.
However, I'd have ot say I like the rest of the show. As somebody who has a very, very large family, it's somewhat believable (ignoring the crazy hippies), and I have seen a fair share of family drama. I could see, and have seen fallout I expect the show to contain in real life with my own family (albeit over different causes).
Although I also have to question what the hell is everyone blabbering about. The weird child of the weird couple was swinging a bat around at speeds capable of doing serious, serious damage to the children around him. I can definitely understand why the dude's anger flared enough that he smacked the kid. While I don't necessarily agree with the reaction outright, I can understand it and don't see why the hell it would warrant any prosecution. It's not like he drew blood or caused damage to the brain- that was already done by the parents who seem to take poor care of a kid that clearly has special needs.
Im not sure he is special needs really. or atleast born that way, i think it is the parents mostly.
And I have to wonder, With the director puting the hippies in the dingy apartment, the guy in a big home overlooking the water, is he trying to frame this as a class war or something? If so, he somehow got me rooting for the rich guy.
Same here. Although considering the family is a group of Greek Immigrants, he probably didn't start out rich, and rather built that entire business up by himself.
But yeah, the writers screwed up with the artist's family if they want them to be the sympathetic characters. They come off as loons, especially how the mother is breast feeding a kid who's what, four, five years old? And drinking? No wonder why the child is messed up- his mother's milk is probably contaminated with liquor.
Well, We only saw from one side, the side of the greek family. I really cant wait to see it from the Hippies side. And im not sure we are really supposed to root for anyone.
And it did mention they started out poor
Posts about show: 39
Posts about not show: 124
Not-show posts about child discipline: 55
I may be off by ~5 posts in the show/not-show category, but that's close to 75% of the thread being not about the show. X_X
I really wanted to talk more about how crappy this show seems to be and not read about child discipline, minor's committing crime, crime statistics' accuracy, or bell curves. After reading the whole thread it looks like we've gotten back on topic. I'm really interested to see how the different points of view style of storytelling pays off as the series goes onward.
This thread went to the underworld and back again.
Gandair wrote: Posts about show: 39
Posts about not show: 124
Not-show posts about child discipline: 55
I may be off by ~5 posts in the show/not-show category, but that's close to 75% of the thread being not about the show. X_X
I really wanted to talk more about how crappy this show seems to be and not read about child discipline, minor's committing crime, crime statistics' accuracy, or bell curves. After reading the whole thread it looks like we've gotten back on topic. I'm really interested to see how the different points of view style of storytelling pays off as the series goes onward.
This thread went to the underworld and back again.
