Gw are in the process of downsizing staff overheads by laying off large numbers of retail management. The company has downsized retail staff before and introduced one man stores, but are looking to produce even more savings by removing a tier of management and replacing with cheaper staff. That sounds good on paper but many of those going are managers of one man stores. There are also rumours of store closures accompanying this, but I have no confirmation of that.

As for the manager layoffs apparently it occurred this weekend This was sourced by someone who knew two of the manager concerned, but I haven't double sourced this yet..

Forgive me if this questions seems daft, but if you're laying off managers of one man stores, how could you possibly not be closing the stores? Who would be running them?

Without particulars, this seems sort of like "the sky is falling" sort of stuff. It's possible a couple of managers who weren't getting the job done were fired as a normal part of the ongoing business process. Happens all the time.

Maybe it's a ferryman scenario, you buy something you become the manager until you can get someone else to buy. A bold move.

New job title, cheaper salary, same gak.

They could shut down every gw store in the usa and that would be a step in the right direction

 Azreal13 wrote:
New job title, cheaper salary, same gak.

I know, right?

[Insert "How exactly does this qualify as news or rumors?" joke here!]

Hasn't this been going on since 2010 at least?

 Orlanth wrote:
Gw are in the process of downsizing staff overheads by laying off large numbers of ....management. ..

Can they start from the top down?

After they relocated prodution in China, increased prices, reduced distribution costs, what comes next ?

Relocating design team in China maybe ? Blister vending machine ? Collectable miniatures ( you don't know what is inside the box ) ?

Sure there is room for creativity ..

eflix29 wrote:
Blister vending machine ?

All stores become automats, you can book tables online and skype with a guy in India if you have rules questions.

eflix29 wrote:
After they relocated prodution in China, increased prices, reduced distribution costs, what comes next ?

Duh, increase prices some more. Someone flunked out of GW executive training school.

eflix29 wrote:
After they relocated prodution in China, increased prices, reduced distribution costs, what comes next ?

Relocating design team in China maybe ? Blister vending machine ? Collectable miniatures ( you don't know what is inside the box ) ?

Sure there is room for creativity ..

Books are done in China, the rest is mostly done in the UK.

 Kirasu wrote:
They could shut down every gw store in the usa and that would be a step in the right direction

This. Getting rid of all of the store management is just the first step, now GW needs to get rid of all of the stores.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:


All stores become automats, you can book tables online and skype with a guy in India if you have rules questions.

That sounds like a significant improvement, at least in terms of getting consistent rulings and FAQ updates.

 Ian Sturrock wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:


All stores become automats, you can book tables online and skype with a guy in India if you have rules questions.

That sounds like a significant improvement, at least in terms of getting consistent rulings and FAQ updates.

Don't be daft, GW would just install a magic 8 ball with a slot to deposit pound coins!

"My sources say no"
"please ask again later"
"Reply hazy try again"

No different really.

"Has a rule dispute? Roll a D6 for it."

True gaming gentlemen should ignore our lack of follow through on rules writing and balance.

Still don't like it? Well you're just not being gentlemanly enough.

All GW stores dying off would benefit the industry more than people realize. The reason why there's mainly localized clubs in the UK is as much because GW has been doing their best to put local stores out of business as it is issues with gaming space.

 Vertrucio wrote:
...All GW stores dying off would benefit the industry more than people realize. The reason why there's mainly localized clubs in the UK is as much because GW has been doing their best to put local stores out of business as it is issues with gaming space.

I think that's a load of old tosh.

The reason why there are so many clubs in the UK is that there is a history of having private clubs in the UK. This is true of all interests. It just take one individual to take up the mantle and do some organising.

Gaming in store is very rare here, the exception being were GW offers demo tables . They still do this even in their one man operations so I'm not sure where you get that from.

 plastictrees wrote:
Maybe it's a ferryman scenario, you buy something you become the manager until you can get someone else to buy. A bold move.

Lol! It would explain why they can be so pushy.

My local store isn't open on Monday or Tuesday.

Sign of the times i guess.

The cost of operating a store with tables is actually pretty pricey.

I am friends with the owner of the FLGS and am very familiar with his books. He pays $13 a square foot monthly to rent his location and has 6 gaming tables. That's $312 a month per table, and a total of $22,464 annually just to have tables on the floor. It cuts into his revenue significantly and, some years, means his store is more of a labor of love than a business.

Last I heard, GW store managers are expected to bring in $100,000 per year in revenue. There aren't that many with 6 tables anymore, the most I have seen in the last few years is 2. Either way, a significant amount of operating expenses can be attributed to the costs of in-store gaming. Whether it's a fifth or a tenth, it's still a big figure for a store that's just hitting it's annual revenue quota.

For GW to cut costs while still maintaining an in-store gaming experience, it's hard to see where this happens other than by letting management go. Store managers don't really make a lot more than living expenses, so I don't see where there's much room to cut back at the store level.

The US is cheap!

But you are right. So for UK comparison I have been looking at quite a few commercial properties to rent out over the last 6 months and a price I got for a GW type location (fringe of central shopping district) of a decent size UK town was £22/sqft for 1,560sqft property, that included office floors (so reduced the average £/sqft rate). Add a 1/4 for business rates then convert to your currency of choice.

Actually notprop the $13 a month rent above is much more expensive than secondary UK locations. I'd assume it must be in a mall else it would be lower.

We have been looking at UK retail expansion lately so are sensitive to prices, we also have been looking in the US to open an Operations centre. The cost differences are generally very wide.

One thing you guys are forgetting is a return on that investment. The tables let people play which in many cases means they buy stuff at the store. Even if they are doing their bulk purchases online they are still buying snacks, drinks, some models, paints, etc. I know a guy that broke even on his table top gaming costs but having people in store generated thousands of dollars of revenue on food and drink.

The Order 66 from GW is stupid.

They already gutted themselves to the point of "1 man stores", a euphemism for ferrymen stores. "I don't have it, but I can have it here next week."

They try to pull that "London Business Hours" joke when they ARE open.

They put ridiculous goals on them, creating a perceived challenge, that inexperienced young managers with stars in their eyes are supposed to make.

WHAT WORKED-

Creating a real hobby center, with a couple of tables to model and paint on, a couple to play on.

Knowledgeable staff on the products. some specialized in fantasy, some in 40K, some in other types of gaming.

Rogue Trader events/ special guest stars.

Good locations, and encouraging people to come in the store, look around.

interaction with family oriented fun, talk to parents right there with the kiddies.

Of course LGS's work, but when your working with a one trick pony that has 3 broken legs, you do what you can, you don't just stab it in the neck and kill your golden goose.


I think back in fondness on the old store model. I can't tell you how much fun that stuff used to be.

GW may be onto something here. Just think how many savings they can make by not paying wages at all!

Soon GW stores will be literally empty rooms where you go after ordering and paying online to pickup your parcel.
You walk into the empty store and see your parcel has magically appeared on the floor with your name on it and you can take it.

What movie is this from again? I swear I've seen this before

 plastictrees wrote:
Maybe it's a ferryman scenario, you buy something you become the manager until you can get someone else to buy. A bold move.

If your GW store manager looks like this, don't choose poorly OR wisely...just choose immediate egress.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
They could shut down every gw store in the usa and that would be a step in the right direction

This. Getting rid of all of the store management is just the first step, now GW needs to get rid of all of the stores.

I've always felt that a small number of larger, destination stores in selected metro markets could work, though.

Right now it's admittedly hard to see a coherent plan for the GW store chain (at least in the US). I think it gets even more confusing when you factor in their approach toward retailers these days. At some point soon, they'll probably "re-remember" the stuff that's worked for them in the past and return to it. GW seems to operate in cycles with regards to their retail and trade sales operations.

 BrookM wrote:
"Has a rule dispute? Roll a D6 for it."

I've always hated this- you play against an idiot and you have a 50/50 chance of being wrong even if you are right. 'you can't roll 2d6 to assault' ... 'yes you can!' 'judge' 'roll a d6 for it'

Me : WTFBBQ?

"We'll roll a dice, on a 4+ I get to cheat."

I wish I could remember who it was wrote that.

 Orlanth wrote:
Another sign of the End Times?

As for the manager layoffs apparently it occurred this weekend This was sourced by someone who knew two of the manager concerned, but I haven't double sourced this yet..

Can we not include such gross assumptions in thread titles while basing the info off very questionable sources?

They are probably just trimming the fat, as in getting rid of all the managers that aren't performing to standards and they will already have them replaced. They used to do it back in the day, they used to call it "exterminatus" where the regional manager would walk in, fire all the employees and already have all the new staff behind him.

Its like Ive always said, GW is a fun job, until upper management gets involved and they ruin what is a very simple and enjoyable job.

 notprop wrote:
The US is cheap!

Wow, indeed. Back when I was working as a redshirt (about... 8 years ago... now I feel old >_> ) we paid 3.000 euros/month for our hole-in-the-wall store in a pretty out o the way mall (read: cheap)

GW has a giant problem with those stores.

On the one hand, they're a giant money sink. On the other hand, they're their only chance to stay at the market in the long run - if going fully online, GW would have zero chances as they'd suddenly face actual competition and couldn't compete anymore.

Gamesworkshop moving to online only preorder culture. No surprise.

 Azreal13 wrote:
"We'll roll a dice, on a 4+ I get to cheat."

I wish I could remember who it was wrote that.

Who indeed?

 Kirasu wrote:
They could shut down every gw store in the usa and that would be a step in the right direction

Why would that be, exactly? The local GW store I play in (Kent, Washington State) is largely responsible for my boys and I playing the game at all. The combination of a good community of people to play with and 6 tables with good terrain has been a huge help for us. If we didn't have somewhere to go to play initially to get to know the game and have other people to play against, I don't think we would have stuck with the hobby.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

eflix29 wrote:
Blister vending machine ?

All stores become automats, you can book tables online and skype with a guy in India if you have rules questions.

Nope. GW does not believe in the existence of social media like Skype, so you'll never be able to call a guy in India via the interwebz, which GW still can't figure out beyond a source of inexplicable revenue for their business. The rules question line will become a 1-900 line, where they charge you £3 per minute.

BrookM wrote:

eflix29 wrote:
After they relocated prodution in China, increased prices, reduced distribution costs, what comes next ?

Relocating design team in China maybe ? Blister vending machine ? Collectable miniatures ( you don't know what is inside the box ) ?

Sure there is room for creativity ..

Books are done in China, the rest is mostly done in the UK.

Only the books are done in China. Models are produced in regional production centers around the world. I know there is one in Memphis, TN in the US, and I thought there was one in Germany, and another one somewhere in the Far East (like China of all places? LOL). Wasn't there one in Italy too? Or have they shut all those down to save money?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 undertow wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
They could shut down every gw store in the usa and that would be a step in the right direction

Why would that be, exactly? The local GW store I play in (Kent, Washington State) is largely responsible for my boys and I playing the game at all. The combination of a good community of people to play with and 6 tables with good terrain has been a huge help for us. If we didn't have somewhere to go to play initially to get to know the game and have other people to play against, I don't think we would have stuck with the hobby.

Just out of curiosity, have you visited any other game stores in the area? Or is it that an FLGS is an "unfriendly place" for 10 year old kids playing against the Neckbeards? I HATE playing at a GW shop because of the tolerance for children that don't know the rules, pick up, drop and break random models during a game, and in general have the attention span of a gnat- as in, they don't have any. No other place do I acutely feel like it's a game of Little Toy Soldiers then in a GW store. I know, a bit hypocritical, but when I sink hundreds of dollars into an army and countless hours of assembly and painting, the last thing I want to do is play a kid that has no concept of money or the amount of effort it takes to field a fully painted army that Dad didn't buy/assemble/paint for them.

I am glad you have a place you and your boys can go to and feel welcomed though.

 Tamwulf wrote:
[......

Only the books are done in China. Models are produced in regional production centers around the world. I know there is one in Memphis, TN in the US, and I thought there was one in Germany, and another one somewhere in the Far East (like China of all places? LOL). Wasn't there one in Italy too? Or have they shut all those down to save money?

Nope, All GW miniatures are made in the UK. There was once a US line doing the most common lines but that shut down some years ago.

You might be thinking of regional offices, which don't exist anymore either. All Europe is run from UK, USA has an office too.

Printing (boxes and books) is done in China. This sort of printing isn't really done in the UK anymore, I believe it has something to do with technology meaning high quality printing can be done with lower skilled (cheaper) labour.

 undertow wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
They could shut down every gw store in the usa and that would be a step in the right direction

Why would that be, exactly? The local GW store I play in (Kent, Washington State) is largely responsible for my boys and I playing the game at all. The combination of a good community of people to play with and 6 tables with good terrain has been a huge help for us. If we didn't have somewhere to go to play initially to get to know the game and have other people to play against, I don't think we would have stuck with the hobby.

Just out of curiosity, have you visited any other game stores in the area? Or is it that an FLGS is an "unfriendly place" for 10 year old kids playing against the Neckbeards? I HATE playing at a GW shop because of the tolerance for children that don't know the rules, pick up, drop and break random models during a game, and in general have the attention span of a gnat- as in, they don't have any. No other place do I acutely feel like it's a game of Little Toy Soldiers then in a GW store. I know, a bit hypocritical, but when I sink hundreds of dollars into an army and countless hours of assembly and painting, the last thing I want to do is play a kid that has no concept of money or the amount of effort it takes to field a fully painted army that Dad didn't buy/assemble/paint for them.

I am glad you have a place you and your boys can go to and feel welcomed though.

Well you just sound like a barrel of laughs don't you.

If children don't learn you don't have new gamers, your community will die.

Also I hate to break it to you like this but your a grown man that plays with little toy soldiers. Embrace this fact, don't begrudge children the chance to enjoy it too.

 Norn King wrote:
My local store isn't open on Monday or Tuesday.

Sign of the times i guess.

Isn't that normal for all the 1 man stores? The one near me is closed the same days but since it's only 1 person working there it's only open 40 hours/5 days a week.

 notprop wrote:

If children don't learn you don't have new gamers, your community will die.

Other games (every other game over here actually), seem to be growing quite nicely without any children involved so that assumption of yours seems to be a bit flawed.

 Azreal13 wrote:
New job title, cheaper salary, same gak.

How is this different from whats going on everywhere else? This isn't new or exclusive to GW. The first ranks culled are always middle management.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
They could shut down every gw store in the usa and that would be a step in the right direction

This. Getting rid of all of the store management is just the first step, now GW needs to get rid of all of the stores.

This situation reminds me of a Stephen King story about a man stranded on a desert isle. At first he eats all the plump seagulls and fish, but then he breaks his leg on a rock. He can no longer catch the fat birds, so he is truly starving when he realizes that his foot is gangrenous and needs to come of anyway... By the end of the story, he has amputated and eaten all of his middle managers and frontline staff. Truly a chilling work of fiction.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
They could shut down every gw store in the usa and that would be a step in the right direction

This. Getting rid of all of the store management is just the first step, now GW needs to get rid of all of the stores.

This situation reminds me of a Stephen King story about a man stranded on a desert isle. At first he eats all the plump seagulls and fish, but then he breaks his leg on a rock. He can no longer catch the fat birds, so he is truly starving when he realizes that his foot is gangrenous and needs to come of anyway... By the end of the story, he has amputated and eaten all of his middle managers and frontline staff. Truly a chilling work of fiction.

I remember that story. IIRC he was a drug mule and used the cocaine as a painkiller for his DIY amputations.

Would be interested to know where they are cutting these jobs from. Germany and the US got slashed well over a year ago. As well as a restructure of titles and pay as well.
US no longer have regional management or any legit training staff for that matter as well as a down sized Customer services staff when those combined used to be a staff of about 15 people. Not to mention the shut down of the US manufacturing section a few years back and selling off the casting machines .

The US and Canada have VERY few shops left with staff I think less then 5 currently. They are closing shops in States that were hubs that had more than 1 store in them. MD still has 4 with in 1 hrs drive of each other down from 8 a few years ago. VA is down to just 2. Dallas and Huston still have several and Seattle as well I believe. But as they close those up they open new shops in areas that don't have or have not had a GW shop in years or ever.

I have said for years they probably would be better served turning their shops in to giant vending machines ( i realize its not piratical but it sure looks like that's what they are going towards most times)

With all the cuts they have made in the past few years I really dont know where else they could cut, the staff is pretty skeletal as it is now. Wonder what rabbit they will pull next year to disguise the profit loss when they cant smoke and mirror the increase from not having to pay all these people they have let go.

Prestor Jon wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
They could shut down every gw store in the usa and that would be a step in the right direction

This. Getting rid of all of the store management is just the first step, now GW needs to get rid of all of the stores.

This situation reminds me of a Stephen King story about a man stranded on a desert isle. At first he eats all the plump seagulls and fish, but then he breaks his leg on a rock. He can no longer catch the fat birds, so he is truly starving when he realizes that his foot is gangrenous and needs to come of anyway... By the end of the story, he has amputated and eaten all of his middle managers and frontline staff. Truly a chilling work of fiction.

I remember that story. IIRC he was a drug mule and used the cocaine as a painkiller for his DIY amputations.

Just like GW.

In areas where there are alternatives, I'd be just fine with them shutting down GW retail stores, concentrating on Internet, and letting local hobby and gaming shops do the retail end of it.

I have nothing against GW stores, but not selling hobby supplies other than GW's own (very limited selection), not to mention higher prices than everyone else, makes them a little pointless.

The "problem" with letting the local shops do it for GW is the local shops wont tow the party line of GW they will suggest or carry alternatives and sell the product in their own way. In GW's mind, that costs them money. GW will maintain the Darth Vader death grip on all things as long as it can, believe that.

The few things you can count on in the GW shops is no distractions from all stuff related to the game you are into. You will find someone else who plays your game and you are going to pay full price. (money is not the driving factor in every ones hobby) Unfortunately thats about all you can count on anymore. You cant get every thing you need for you army that day ( neither can you from most hobby shops I have been in) You may or may not get a guy/gal you can stand behind the counter ( still true in hobby shops) your probably wont be able to play a game on the very few tables now in the smaller shops. ( again this could be the same situation in a local shop as well.)

I have been is some super well run retailers who do it all and its awesome. I have also been to shops where they stock GW and know NOTING about it. The retail chain (at least north America) makes a pretty penny from the shops there and until that penny aint so shinny those are not going any where. For better or worse. There are still WAY more areas with out GW shops. You just have to hope the ones near you are awesome!

 Tamwulf wrote:

 undertow wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
They could shut down every gw store in the usa and that would be a step in the right direction

Why would that be, exactly? The local GW store I play in (Kent, Washington State) is largely responsible for my boys and I playing the game at all. The combination of a good community of people to play with and 6 tables with good terrain has been a huge help for us. If we didn't have somewhere to go to play initially to get to know the game and have other people to play against, I don't think we would have stuck with the hobby.

Just out of curiosity, have you visited any other game stores in the area? Or is it that an FLGS is an "unfriendly place" for 10 year old kids playing against the Neckbeards? I HATE playing at a GW shop because of the tolerance for children that don't know the rules, pick up, drop and break random models during a game, and in general have the attention span of a gnat- as in, they don't have any. No other place do I acutely feel like it's a game of Little Toy Soldiers then in a GW store. I know, a bit hypocritical, but when I sink hundreds of dollars into an army and countless hours of assembly and painting, the last thing I want to do is play a kid that has no concept of money or the amount of effort it takes to field a fully painted army that Dad didn't buy/assemble/paint for them.

I am glad you have a place you and your boys can go to and feel welcomed though.

The Kent store is about 15 minutes from my house. Most of the other non-GW stores in my area are smaller, and are primarily playing MTG on the weekends, so there's not much of a community in those places from what I've seen and read. There are a couple of really great stores that are just out of convenient travel range for me (Olympic Cards and Comics in Olympia, and Mugu Games in Everett, WA). So part of the reason we play at the Kent Station store is convenience, but a lot of it is the atmosphere there. People don't just drop their kids off there, my youngest (age 13) is generally only there with his older brother (age 19) and/or me.

 Captain Vyper wrote:
The retail chain (at least north America) makes a pretty penny from the shops there and until that penny aint so shinny those are not going any where. For better or worse.

Well, I'm not so sure that's the case actually.

The amount of GW shops... sorry, "Hobby Centres" in North America decreased by 13% from May 2013 to May 2014. And those, combined, bring in a revenue of £10,122,120. Meanwhile, operating expenses in North America are £12,507,000. Now, it could be that some (or all) of the expenses from dealing with independent retailers are part of that, but since North American autonomy was removed, and the sales rep for the region is located in Nottingham, I suspect most of their trade expenses for the region are covered under the £9 million their Service Centre is costing them.

I'm expecting a lot less GW storefronts in North America in the future.

Prestor Jon wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
They could shut down every gw store in the usa and that would be a step in the right direction

This. Getting rid of all of the store management is just the first step, now GW needs to get rid of all of the stores.

This situation reminds me of a Stephen King story about a man stranded on a desert isle. At first he eats all the plump seagulls and fish, but then he breaks his leg on a rock. He can no longer catch the fat birds, so he is truly starving when he realizes that his foot is gangrenous and needs to come of anyway... By the end of the story, he has amputated and eaten all of his middle managers and frontline staff. Truly a chilling work of fiction.

I remember that story. IIRC he was a drug mule and used the cocaine as a painkiller for his DIY amputations.

Reminds me of an old Greek myth as well as a Michael Moorcock story that featured that happening to someone.

Talys wrote:
In areas where there are alternatives, I'd be just fine with them shutting down GW retail stores, concentrating on Internet, and letting local hobby and gaming shops do the retail end of it.

First of all, GW has burnt down all bridges concerning FLGS cooperation. Secondly, GW cannot shut their stores down. They are what makes their games more popular than the others. If GW goes fully online, they could no longer compete with other retailers and would go down.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Secondly, GW cannot shut their stores down. They are what makes their games more popular than the others.

Maybe in the UK, but certainly not in the US. GW's own stores contribute almost nothing in the US because there are so few of them and they're rarely more appealing than the local independent store. There wasn't even a single GW store in my state 5 years ago, and yet somehow there was already a 40k community and GW games were the most popular. The GW stores around here are parasites on an existing community, and the sooner they disappear the better.

So how long after the last store closes until everything goes webstore exclusive?

I think GW should just put a trust box at the door and do away with the staff...........we are an honest bunch??!

Yeah, purchasing miniatures on the honour system. What could possibly go wrong?

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
So how long after the last store closes until everything goes webstore exclusive?

Won't happen. Webstore exclusive + no advertisement...how would GW persuade people to shop at them and not at an online retailer selling at -20% or more?

boyd wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
New job title, cheaper salary, same gak.

How is this different from whats going on everywhere else? This isn't new or exclusive to GW. The first ranks culled are always middle management.

It isn't.

It's just if Washers R Us are doing it, it isn't so likely to warrant discussing on, y'know, the worlds largest wargaming site.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Won't happen. Webstore exclusive + no advertisement...how would GW persuade people to shop at them and not at an online retailer selling at -20% or more?

By not selling stock to the other webstore. The emphasis is on the exclusive part of "web exclusive".

They have to make the bottom line look better and, according to a thread in dakka discussions, they've already announced an EXTRA dividend payout before the normally scheduled (and over the top one) in another month. That money has to come from somewhere and it seems that the customer and the little guy (normal employees) are always the ones who end up paying.

 scuzz_bucket wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
Another sign of the End Times?

As for the manager layoffs apparently it occurred this weekend This was sourced by someone who knew two of the manager concerned, but I haven't double sourced this yet..

Can we not include such gross assumptions in thread titles while basing the info off very questionable sources?

The source isn't 'very questionable' the guy I got this from is close friend of one of the managers concerned. He is a good source.
15 managers in one region is a rather a lot.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Won't happen. Webstore exclusive + no advertisement...how would GW persuade people to shop at them and not at an online retailer selling at -20% or more?

By not selling stock to the other webstore. The emphasis is on the exclusive part of "web exclusive".

Yea, because who needs distributors? Those fething middle men just want to scrape off their percentage, eating into your profit margin! And besides, when you work through those distributors, you have to sell to more customers to make as much revenue. It's a total racket. Cutting out the retailers and distributors really is the best way forward for GW.

I mean...I hate GW, so I really don't want GW to make the smart, business savvy move of cutting out all retailers and distributors. Because then GW would dominate the market...and...uh...GW's IP would be invincible!

 Orlanth wrote:

 scuzz_bucket wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
Another sign of the End Times?

As for the manager layoffs apparently it occurred this weekend This was sourced by someone who knew two of the manager concerned, but I haven't double sourced this yet..

Can we not include such gross assumptions in thread titles while basing the info off very questionable sources?

The source isn't 'very questionable' the guy I got this from is close friend of one of the managers concerned. He is a good source.
15 managers in one region is a rather a lot.

Not to mention this is news and rumours not BBC News 24.

Point.

buckero0 wrote:




What movie is this from again? I swear I've seen this before

Automats were real things, no waiters you put coins in the slots and there were cooks and staff behind them putting food in the windows.

There was one in NYC called Horn and Hardarts till the 80s.

buckero0 wrote:


What movie is this from again? I swear I've seen this before

You might be remembering Dark City.

They're actually making a comeback with hipsters in urban areas... but we should probably discuss that in another subforum.

weeble1000 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Won't happen. Webstore exclusive + no advertisement...how would GW persuade people to shop at them and not at an online retailer selling at -20% or more?

By not selling stock to the other webstore. The emphasis is on the exclusive part of "web exclusive".

Yea, because who needs distributors? Those fething middle men just want to scrape off their percentage, eating into your profit margin! And besides, when you work through those distributors, you have to sell to more customers to make as much revenue. It's a total racket. Cutting out the retailers and distributors really is the best way forward for GW.

I mean...I hate GW, so I really don't want GW to make the smart, business savvy move of cutting out all retailers and distributors. Because then GW would dominate the market...and...uh...GW's IP would be invincible!

I thought GW distributed their own product. There was no middleman.

GW does sell direct, either to retailers of consumers. However there are also a number of distributors that also have GW product (Alliance Games, for an example).

Been a member of Dakka for 7 years....been hearing "It's the death of GW!" for seven years now.... Gonna hear "It's the death of GW!" for another 7 years.....

krazynadechukr wrote:
Been a member of Dakka for 7 years....been hearing "It's the death of GW!" for seven years now.... Gonna hear "It's the death of GW!" for another 7 years.....

Been a member of Dakka for 3 1/2 years, been hearing people decry the people who aren't predicting the demise of GW as predicting the demise of GW for 3 1/2 years, also been reading people who claim GW are going to go on forever despite all the evidence that they need to turn things around for just as long.

krazynadechukr wrote:
Been a member of Dakka for 7 years....been hearing "It's the death of GW!" for seven years now.... Gonna hear "It's the death of GW!" for another 7 years.....

I've been hearing it since the days of usenet and something called Second Edition...

But, much like Battle Sister rumors, it's gonna be right someday.

krazynadechukr wrote:
Been a member of Dakka for 7 years....been hearing "It's the death of GW!" for seven years now.... Gonna hear "It's the death of GW!" for another 7 years.....

You realize that corporations tend to degrade and lose value instead of outright failing? The world isn't so black and white.. especially in the world of finance.

How i love this kind of post´s

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

buckero0 wrote:




What movie is this from again? I swear I've seen this before

Automats were real things, no waiters you put coins in the slots and there were cooks and staff behind them putting food in the windows.

There was one in NYC called Horn and Hardarts till the 80s.

Still goes on in the Netherlands pretty regularly (and HK).

 Breotan wrote:

buckero0 wrote:


What movie is this from again? I swear I've seen this before

You might be remembering Dark City.

Nah, the whole point of Dark City was that nobody remembers.

 Grot 6 wrote:
... a real hobby center, with a couple of tables to model and paint on, a couple to play on.
Knowledgeable staff on the products. some specialized in fantasy, some in 40K, some in other types of gaming.
Rogue Trader events/ special guest stars.
Good locations, and encouraging people to come in the store, look around.
interaction with family oriented fun, talk to parents right there with the kiddies.
Of course LGS's work, but when your working with a one trick pony that has 3 broken legs, you do what you can, you don't just stab it in the neck and kill your golden goose.

I think back in fondness on the old store model. I can't tell you how much fun that stuff used to be.

This post hits home for me too. I really feel bad for the guys that are relatively new to the game. They enjoy it, but have the impression that GW is nothing but the corporate machine. Makes me feel like an old geezer when I describe the way things used to be:
People going to the store to paint and hang out just to be around other people that play the game.
Getting tips on how to paint and play from knowledgeable employees (note the plural).
Employees not shoving the newest product down your throat when you walk through the door.
Oh man, the old campaigns where you submitted results and affected the fluff, that was EPIC. Coolest idea ever...

I was lucky enough to "grow up" with 40k in a GW store during the good times. I do miss it. But I make due with a good FLGS now and am working on getting a tight knit group together with leagues and tournaments. Here's hoping the game doesn't tank and feth us all thanks to their poor business (not caring for existing customers) decisions.

I tip my glass to the old days...

Ah, fine, the GW is going down sing along I will bite:

If true: It makes sense to change the title to justify a cost cut. They are now store "minders" it is little more than a kiosk, what do they pay those people in the halls of the mall?

If false: I figure store closures at least are a real possibility just as a means of controlling overhead cost to get those profits for dividends. More GW fat to trim for money.

With the way their reports look it would be the next logical step if they think their website is pulling in money more effectively than their shops.

Two points:

Who in this thread has said they're going down? It's just another round of cuts to keep treading water.

I don't know how they would think the website is pulling in more money, as mail order generates half what the stores do, and that includes FW and BL.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Who in this thread has said they're going down? It's just another round of cuts to keep treading water.

I think that's the whole point... if you get rid of employees/shops it's usually not a sign of a good state of buisness. They will keep afloat for a while through cutting costs, but that will most likely lead to a slow death rather than an improved buisness model. It's not impossible. Other companies managed to trim a lot of fat, change their setup and continue in a different fashion, but my gut feeling says GW will rather go belly-up at some point or other.

The shops as they are seem to be less and less profitable. Yet, those are the places where Little Timmy comes into contact with GW in the first place (no, telling them that there's a tabletop-boardgame-thingie for Dawn of War won't do the trick). So once they close the shops, the ammount of little timmies will drop. And if people are going to buy online, they are bound to find out about other sites like waylandgames or freaking amazon (had space hulk 30$ cheaper than GW at some point, lol). Not to mention other sources overseas.

Hardly, a good business will always look to reduce costs.

notprop wrote:Hardly, a good business will always look to reduce costs.

And so will Games Workshop.

Bah-dum, tshh!

 Kosake wrote:
I think that's the whole point... if you get rid of employees/shops it's usually not a sign of a good state of buisness.

Depends on the reason for the cuts. Is GW cutting redundant employees/stores that don't fit its business model? Is it closing stores that aren't meeting performance standards because the region they're in doesn't have enough customers? Is it a concession that the business model needs to change? Even in that last scenario admitting defeat and getting rid of a broken business model is a sign of a healthier business than if they just kept going as usual because they were too stubborn to accept the inevitable. And IMO that's quite possibly where GW is: in a lot of places (the US especially) their retail chain is not a good strategy. I'd consider it a favorable sign if GW decided to get rid of all of their US stores because that's what they need to do.

So once they close the shops, the ammount of little timmies will drop.

Not necessarily. In the US there would be very little, if any, drop because the few GW stores are vastly outnumbered by the independent stores selling GW products. Most GW customers in the US have never been to a GW store, and most of the ones that do shop there regularly would move to an independent store with minimal disruption. It might have been different years ago when GW had stores in high-traffic malls where lots of customers could walk in without looking for a GW store, but now they're all in random strip malls where you'll never find them unless you've already decided to buy something from GW.

Don't know about the US but here in Germany I've literally never seen a GW product outside a GW store.

Even in gaming stores?

I haven't seen GW outside of gaming/toy/craft stores in about 20 years in the UK, but they usually have reasonable coverage in the places that do stock them.

Gaming stores? I've learned about the concept from dakkadakka. We have some stores that specialize in geeky stuff - D&D, Shadowrun, MTG, Munchkin, some other Tabletop like Warmachine. But the ones I've been to don't have a table you could play on and as I said, they usually don't sell GW stuff.

As for the model shops, they sell trains, cars, planes, tanks etc, but they usually don't have any "playable" miniatues at all.

I'd well believe it. This came up a few months ago in a thread and someone pointed out that it would make more sense for them to close down 90% of their stores (or all but the most central ones) and run their products almost entirely via FLGSs. While such a move means loss of control for GW (and we all know how much they hate that!) it makes perfect economic sense, as their store and retail staff is undoubtedly one of their biggest overheads (if not their biggest). God forbid the saving they'd make might even allow them to drop their prices a little, which would be nice.

I reckon we should all keep in mind that the US, UK and Continental European markets are all pretty different to each other.

The UK is heavily saturated with GW stores and there are only a few (but growing) FLGS, usually with limited table space because of high retail rent. GW tends to be in fairly decent "high street" locations.

The US has few (and shrinking) GW stores but many FLGS with a lot of space. GW store location seems to be somewhat more dubious here. Is there such thing as a "High Street" (ie. the main shopping street of a town) in most US towns and cities?

Continental Europe has a similar set up to the UK, but with far fewer GW stores (limited to the main cities usually). Games stores generally do not have much playing space and are really just places to go and buy things. There are also model shops and so on that might stock some GW stuff but not a wide range.

So in the US, GW could probably close all their stores with minimal impact. In the UK it would be a big risk, because they'd lose their presence and the main thing that makes the game attractive over competition. On the continent it might also be a bit of a disaster.

 notprop wrote:
Hardly, a good business will always look to reduce costs.

Yes, and a poorly run one will make false economies for short term gain, to it's med-long term detriment.

 Da Boss wrote:
Continental Europe has a similar set up to the UK, but with far fewer GW stores (limited to the main cities usually). Games stores generally do not have much playing space and are really just places to go and buy things. There are also model shops and so on that might stock some GW stuff but not a wide range.

Well, there's kind of a "hobby inn" or pub or whatever you want to call it that I know off. They don't sell any games but play host to local clubs for wargaming, LARP, p&p and suchlike. It's a great place to meet with some friends for a nice game (they even have a nice big battlefield terrain) but it's the only one I know in a 200 km radius and it's not a retail store...

Speaking of independent stockists, I was surprised to notice that the local branch of Forbidden Planet International (Belfast) is gearing up to sell GW products. The shelf space isn't huge, but it's going to be there, in view of all the other roleplayers, boardgamers, and X-Wingers. Anyone know if it's just a local thing, or is FP as a whole stocking GW? I can't see any minis on their site barring the usual clix and X-Wing stuff.

 tekk_45 wrote:

This post hits home for me too. I really feel bad for the guys that are relatively new to the game. They enjoy it, but have the impression that GW is nothing but the corporate machine. Makes me feel like an old geezer when I describe the way things used to be:
People going to the store to paint and hang out just to be around other people that play the game.
Getting tips on how to paint and play from knowledgeable employees (note the plural).
Employees not shoving the newest product down your throat when you walk through the door.
Oh man, the old campaigns where you submitted results and affected the fluff, that was EPIC. Coolest idea ever...

I was lucky enough to "grow up" with 40k in a GW store during the good times. I do miss it. But I make due with a good FLGS now and am working on getting a tight knit group together with leagues and tournaments. Here's hoping the game doesn't tank and feth us all thanks to their poor business (not caring for existing customers) decisions.

I tip my glass to the old days...

Funny, you describe just exactly how my local GW is to me, currently. Excluding the employees part, but I don't really mind that. We've got a hobby table and people are painting and building there, we've got two play tables. The manager organises campaigns, kill team days, painting contests, apocalypse battles, gaming challenges. Are the other GW's as bad as you say and am I just lucky?

I've only been to one GW store in my life and it was open for only one year. FLGS are superior because they offer so much. (Cheaper hobby supplies as a cherry on top.)
I feel sorry for the people that only have one tiny GW with one table surrounded by twelve year olds.

Meanwhile in the US.

I've been to lots of GW shops all over the world, and with one notable exception (GW Shanghai Puxi) none of them are places where I'd want to spend any time beyond buying stuff and getting the hell out.

 tydrace wrote:

 tekk_45 wrote:

This post hits home for me too. I really feel bad for the guys that are relatively new to the game. They enjoy it, but have the impression that GW is nothing but the corporate machine. Makes me feel like an old geezer when I describe the way things used to be:
People going to the store to paint and hang out just to be around other people that play the game.
Getting tips on how to paint and play from knowledgeable employees (note the plural).
Employees not shoving the newest product down your throat when you walk through the door.
Oh man, the old campaigns where you submitted results and affected the fluff, that was EPIC. Coolest idea ever...

I was lucky enough to "grow up" with 40k in a GW store during the good times. I do miss it. But I make due with a good FLGS now and am working on getting a tight knit group together with leagues and tournaments. Here's hoping the game doesn't tank and feth us all thanks to their poor business (not caring for existing customers) decisions.

I tip my glass to the old days...

Funny, you describe just exactly how my local GW is to me, currently. Excluding the employees part, but I don't really mind that. We've got a hobby table and people are painting and building there, we've got two play tables. The manager organises campaigns, kill team days, painting contests, apocalypse battles, gaming challenges. Are the other GW's as bad as you say and am I just lucky?

More accurately, the stores are in the process of change - being moved to a one employee per store set up.

Not all of them have changed yet.

Perhaps not all of them will.

It is also barely possible that GW will realize that stores without gaming are a false economy, and start moving back to the larger stores. (Not likely - it cost them money to move to the one manager set up, and it will cost them a lot more money going back.)

The Auld Grump, there are times when Kirby reminds me of Mike Eisner....

I feel badly for all of the people here who have such fond memories of the past but haven't found anything to replace or rekindle those past feelings. I would probably move on entirely if Games Workshop gave me anywhere near the amount of (apparent) frustration and anger that is commonly expressed here.

Note: I am not suggesting that negative comments are bad or wrong; I am merely puzzled at the volume and negativity expressed about a non-compulsory hobby.

brendan wrote:
Note: I am not suggesting that negative comments are bad or wrong; I am merely puzzled at the volume and negativity expressed about a non-compulsory hobby.

Well, let's take away your non-compulsory minis and non-compulsory rulebooks and non-compulsory gaming venue and see how chipper you are about it.

 brendan wrote:
I feel badly for all of the people here who have such fond memories of the past but haven't found anything to replace or rekindle those past feelings. I would probably move on entirely if Games Workshop gave me anywhere near the amount of (apparent) frustration and anger that is commonly expressed here.

Note: I am not suggesting that negative comments are bad or wrong; I am merely puzzled at the volume and negativity expressed about a non-compulsory hobby.

the painful thing for me is that GW/FW customers (me included) are very happy to express what we want from a store and the only supplier of our hobby and the supplier willfully ignores us!

i accept that you cant please everyone and sometimes what people want isnt workable as a business model.

however, when GW and their stores first came to my attention was because they supplied the place to buy the stuff but also a place to meet others who played the games (it was quite hard to find other people into 40k when you didnt have the internet) and a place to play the games when having scenery which wasnt old model railway trees and styrofoam sheets made into step-hills was really impressive.
you see what i'm getting at here? they nurtured the scene because the company would die if they didnt make sales and the best way to do that was to have a chain of gaming-club style shops. it forced there to be a gaming community wherever one opened.

so when you read this thread, please dont think we're just whining; because we really care abvout our hobby, the owners of the franchise don't, we can see that, and they don't want to know.

GW's relationship with us customers is in the "paranoid, delusional and abusive spouse" territory

(thanks jadenim!)

I think one reason is that, for me for example, I live in a major UK city where the only FLGS is basically giving what little space he has to Magic, and 500m away a larger GW sits empty most days because they do t do I store gaming anymore unless they organise it, and even then have to turf people out through the day so the one guy can go to the bathroom, get change, eat etc GW should be cleaning up in the UK , instead it's life support and most of us have seen existing staff replaced with high pressure sales staff who often are just interested in talking 12 year olds parents into buying realms of battle.

That's where the anger comes from.

 TwilightSparkles wrote:
I think one reason is that, for me for example, I live in a major UK city where the only FLGS is basically giving what little space he has to Magic, and 500m away a larger GW sits empty most days because they do t do I store gaming anymore unless they organise it, and even then have to turf people out through the day so the one guy can go to the bathroom, get change, eat etc GW should be cleaning up in the UK , instead it's life support and most of us have seen existing staff replaced with high pressure sales staff who often are just interested in talking 12 year olds parents into buying realms of battle.

That's where the anger comes from.

Over the next 2-3 years we should have 10 stores open around the Uk all with gaming space. First opens any day, second and third have had offers made on sites.

rich1231 wrote:

Over the next 2-3 years we should have 10 stores open around the Uk all with gaming space. First opens any day, second and third have had offers made on sites.

Very ambitious plan. I like it.

rich1231 wrote:

 TwilightSparkles wrote:
I think one reason is that, for me for example, I live in a major UK city where the only FLGS is basically giving what little space he has to Magic, and 500m away a larger GW sits empty most days because they do t do I store gaming anymore unless they organise it, and even then have to turf people out through the day so the one guy can go to the bathroom, get change, eat etc GW should be cleaning up in the UK , instead it's life support and most of us have seen existing staff replaced with high pressure sales staff who often are just interested in talking 12 year olds parents into buying realms of battle.

That's where the anger comes from.

Over the next 2-3 years we should have 10 stores open around the Uk all with gaming space. First opens any day, second and third have had offers made on sites.

That is excellent news!

When will there likely be news about the locations/opening dates of the new stores (and most importantly, do you have anything planned for the South West?! )

Come to Luton! We're a major town with no GW presence. In fact no FLGS to compete with at all.

These plans obviously subject to change. The order in which they open totally dependent on how negotiations generally go.

I would guess that we possibly have the best view of where gamers are in the UK though nearly 7 years of sales data.

It has given us quite an insight. We wont just be going to locations where there is no hobby presence as to be blunt we like competition and it benefits everyone to be compelled all the time to try and improve.

We will have another store in Essex almost certainly, Almost certainly one in London. Nottingham of course for a large store. Then the others are still being identified. But Scotland is a must, South Coast (Brighton or Crawley), South West/West, Another in the Midlands and a few others that we are less sure of, Sheffield looks like a possibility as one of the stronger candidates.

We have a lot going on this year, new website is literally a few days away. New Warehouse and back office systems in March then focus on retail for rest of year.

 Kosake wrote:

The shops as they are seem to be less and less profitable. Yet, those are the places where Little Timmy comes into contact with GW in the first place (no, telling them that there's a tabletop-boardgame-thingie for Dawn of War won't do the trick). So once they close the shops, the ammount of little timmies will drop. And if people are going to buy online, they are bound to find out about other sites like waylandgames or freaking amazon (had space hulk 30$ cheaper than GW at some point, lol). Not to mention other sources overseas.

Umm, actually the first time I walked into a Games Workshop when I was a Little Timmy, I thought it was a videogame store, promptly turned on my heels and walked right out.

The second time I very nearly bought something when I was a little Timmy was when I was in a Hobbytown USA (now defunct) and I saw the cool looking art on the army books and an interesting looking game with unit stats inside. Then I looked at the blisters with chunky looking pewter pieces and rows upon rows of paint and made a wise decision not to.

Ironically the reason I ended up buying about $400 in GW models is because someone told me that there's a tabletop-boardgame-thingie for Dawn of War. Regretting that decision now.

Also, first Games Workshop model I ever owned came in this box:

rich1231 wrote:
These plans obviously subject to change. The order in which they open totally dependent on how negotiations generally go.

I would guess that we possibly have the best view of where gamers are in the UK though nearly 7 years of sales data.

It has given us quite an insight. We wont just be going to locations where there is no hobby presence as to be blunt we like competition and it benefits everyone to be compelled all the time to try and improve.

We will have another store in Essex almost certainly, Almost certainly one in London. Nottingham of course for a large store. Then the others are still being identified. But Scotland is a must, South Coast (Brighton or Crawley), South West/West, Another in the Midlands and a few others that we are less sure of, Sheffield looks like a possibility as one of the stronger candidates.

We have a lot going on this year, new website is literally a few days away. New Warehouse and back office systems in March then focus on retail for rest of year.

Would be cool if a store was going to be in Bristol or even the Gloucestershire area.

After Cut'n'Thrust closed down there isn't a store in Bristol either, which (pardon my French) is absolutely fething nuts for a city of that size!

Great to here that Wayland is doing well enough to expand, especially in this era of lots of different gaming stores closing down in the UK.

But, for the record, the Soth West doesn't finish at Bristol!!

Just sayin...

Does Privateer Press have any stores themselves? They seem to be doing quite ok,. Even IF GW closed every single store that would hardly be the end of GW

Count your blessings. Even a single one-man GW store with a table or two would be more than what's within 50-100 miles of me. I have one LGS over 20 miles away that stocks GW, PP, and some other mixed material like FFG and Spartan games, but has absolutely nowhere to play. It's not even a dedicated gamestore, but a Rider's hobby shop that just happens to have games.

Other than that its a comic store 20 miles the other way that carries boardgames but only has tables for card gaming.

I don't even have a GW store in 100 miles in any direction.

So try being a wargamer with nowhere to play but your own house.

No, PP doesn't, and nor will they if they wish to continue in the manner they currently do.

GW stores are a massive expense for GW, and i don't personally believe the represent good value, I'm not pre disposed to do the maths right now, but just from recollection, they conceivably cost as much, or almost, to run as they bring in.

rich1231 wrote:
These plans obviously subject to change. The order in which they open totally dependent on how negotiations generally go.

I would guess that we possibly have the best view of where gamers are in the UK though nearly 7 years of sales data.

It has given us quite an insight. We wont just be going to locations where there is no hobby presence as to be blunt we like competition and it benefits everyone to be compelled all the time to try and improve.

We will have another store in Essex almost certainly

Chelmsford Please!!!!!!!

 NAVARRO wrote:

rich1231 wrote:
These plans obviously subject to change. The order in which they open totally dependent on how negotiations generally go.

I would guess that we possibly have the best view of where gamers are in the UK though nearly 7 years of sales data.

It has given us quite an insight. We wont just be going to locations where there is no hobby presence as to be blunt we like competition and it benefits everyone to be compelled all the time to try and improve.

We will have another store in Essex almost certainly

Chelmsford Please!!!!!!!

Amen!

 Pacific wrote:

rich1231 wrote:

 TwilightSparkles wrote:
I think one reason is that, for me for example, I live in a major UK city where the only FLGS is basically giving what little space he has to Magic, and 500m away a larger GW sits empty most days because they do t do I store gaming anymore unless they organise it, and even then have to turf people out through the day so the one guy can go to the bathroom, get change, eat etc GW should be cleaning up in the UK , instead it's life support and most of us have seen existing staff replaced with high pressure sales staff who often are just interested in talking 12 year olds parents into buying realms of battle.

That's where the anger comes from.

Over the next 2-3 years we should have 10 stores open around the Uk all with gaming space. First opens any day, second and third have had offers made on sites.

That is excellent news!

When will there likely be news about the locations/opening dates of the new stores (and most importantly, do you have anything planned for the South West?! )

South West? You should be so lucky. it'll be London and the South East.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rich1231 wrote:

 TwilightSparkles wrote:
I think one reason is that, for me for example, I live in a major UK city where the only FLGS is basically giving what little space he has to Magic, and 500m away a larger GW sits empty most days because they do t do I store gaming anymore unless they organise it, and even then have to turf people out through the day so the one guy can go to the bathroom, get change, eat etc GW should be cleaning up in the UK , instead it's life support and most of us have seen existing staff replaced with high pressure sales staff who often are just interested in talking 12 year olds parents into buying realms of battle.

That's where the anger comes from.

Over the next 2-3 years we should have 10 stores open around the Uk all with gaming space. First opens any day, second and third have had offers made on sites.

When you say UK, do you really mean UK or will you be stopping at Watford?

And the topic has jumped the rails, and is heading into the chip shop!

Agreed though - GW messing around is allowing the local stores a chance to penetrate the market in an effective manner.

The Auld Grump