So last night after getting stomped by two unexpected Lord of Wars I've decided its time to get one of my own. I'm conflicted over whether to make my first purchase a baneblade (probably the hellhammer varient) or an IK crusader.
In terms of the baneblade, I know the hellhammer is the most expensive option but I like the idea of the turret being able to pivot without having to face my front armor in the direction I want to shoot.
I will end up picking up both eventually and I am more leaning on getting the baneblade first. Is the hellhammer worth the points or is it better to go with something like a shadowsword?
Game wise, the Imperial Knight is better. On the other hand, a Baneblade looks much cooler, and you can paint it in the same colour scheme as your IG regiment without it looking tacky.
Depends. The Knight is a better all-rounder, while also being more durable and faster.
The Baneblade kit can focus on a specific role, with magnetization, and have a longer range. Also you can get ranged StrD with the Volcano cannon variant.
Baneblade. It looks better, and if anyone in a pickup game yells "CHEESE", you can point out that if anything, the Baneblade is slightly overcosted.
Use said 'blade to rampage around the table, running over troops, bashing through terrain, blowing up large chunks of enemy forces and being a big general problem, while the rest of your army does more specific things.
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Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote: Is the hellhammer variant even worth taking? I see a lot of people who play a baneblade always go with that volcano cannon.
Yes. I say that, but I face mechanized MEQ lists.
But turreted psuedo Str D is terrifying, and anyone who uses cover save shenanigans can kiss your beautiful panzer-division arse.
Selym wrote: But turreted psuedo Str D is terrifying, and anyone who uses cover save shenanigans can kiss your beautiful panzer-division arse.
Pseudo? I'm pretty sure the Shadowsword's cannon is ACTUALLY Strength D, it's the first D-weapon I ever heard of actually and it was what introduced me to the concept.
Of course, if you magnetise your Baneblade, learn your tanks. Remember which turrent goes with which combination of "Bane", "Hell", "Shadow", "Storm", "Hammer", "Blade", "Sword", or "Lord". And be aware that some combinations can be made with the kit, some are FW models, and some don't yet exist.
SickSix wrote: As a tread head I have to say the Baneblades look awesome and are fun to put together. And you can magnetize just about the whole damn thing.
Gaming wise, an IK maybe better, but you will find opponents much more agreeable to the Baneblade and uttering 'CHEESE' much less often.
This is my thought as well, although I think the guys in my FLGS are relatively ok with running LoW above 2k pt games as it seems. The chaos player yesterday used a proxy for the lord of skulls and literally stomped my inquisition detachment to death...
Selym wrote: But turreted psuedo Str D is terrifying, and anyone who uses cover save shenanigans can kiss your beautiful panzer-division arse.
Pseudo? I'm pretty sure the Shadowsword's cannon is ACTUALLY Strength D, it's the first D-weapon I ever heard of actually and it was what introduced me to the concept.
The Hellhammer has a turret with this:
36" Range // Str 10 // Ap 1 // 7" Blast, Ignores Cover, Primary 1
The Shadowsword gets a hull mounted D cannon. With 120" range, and a 5" blast.
Selym wrote: The Shadowsword gets a hull mounted D cannon. With 120" range, and a 5" blast.
So the Volcano Cannon is real D (not sure what "pseudo D" would actually be...)? That's all I disputed in his post.
The Hellhammer is "Psuedo D".
There's a reason I quoted the question about their viability.
In some ways the Hellhammer cannon is more reliable than D. It's essentially Str D-1, as it's literally the strongest possible shot in the game, barring actual D and larger blasts.
SickSix wrote: As a tread head I have to say the Baneblades look awesome and are fun to put together. And you can magnetize just about the whole damn thing.
Gaming wise, an IK maybe better, but you will find opponents much more agreeable to the Baneblade and uttering 'CHEESE' much less often.
This is my thought as well, although I think the guys in my FLGS are relatively ok with running LoW above 2k pt games as it seems. The chaos player yesterday used a proxy for the lord of skulls and literally stomped my inquisition detachment to death...
Long story short I'm salty as gak...
Prepare to get more salty - Did he stomp you? 'Cause if he did, he needs to recheck his rules as the LoS can't stomp, only thunderblitz, which is pretty terrible.
So far I've only really seen a bunch of knights. One guy runs the formation of 3 of them, I avoid playing against him lol. Pretty sure one of the necron players there have an obelisk, there was some kind of huge tyranid thing with 4 legs that looked like a daddy long legs...
I may end up going with the baneblade first, I just love the look of the thing. At least it looks more intimidating than a knight... It also has 9 hp opposed to the knights 6 correct?
Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote: I may end up going with the baneblade first, I just love the look of the thing. At least it looks more intimidating than a knight... It also has 9 hp opposed to the knights 6 correct?
And that hell hammer cannon....
Give 'em a good licking with it, but prepare to get mobile. The Hellhammer variant works best on the move, and it's going to need active support.
Good choice! Whichever you choose (guessing the Baneblade), I'm sure there'll be tutorial up the wazoo, if they're even necessary.
If you have picked/do pick the Baneblade, here's your army's new theme song:
What makes the IK more competitive over the baneblade? Can both fire at different targets or is it the fact the IK has two main weapons over the baneblade a one cannon shot?
Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote: What makes the IK more competitive over the baneblade? Can both fire at different targets or is it the fact the IK has two main weapons over the baneblade a one cannon shot?
Cheaper price, invuln save, good shooting attacks plus deadly in combat with the versatility of a d-weapon and stomps.
I'm a fan of the stormlord. It's massive transport capacity is awesome along with being able to fire that gun twice if you don't move can be pretty devastating to hoard armies.
I voted for the IK crusader, that's what I'm building right now for my army and I have a shadowsword still in the shrinkwrap sitting next to my hobby table. The IK crusader is a mobile weapons platform with an inv save and possible D3 stomp attacks, I'm equipping mine with the thermal cannon and the stormspear rocket pod updrade, there won't be anything alive within 3 feet of this beastie.
I'd imagine if you're playing against blob or horde armies you can just park the baneblade on top of enemy troops and tank shock half the unit to death considering how large the model is.
Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote: I'd imagine if you're playing against blob or horde armies you can just park the baneblade on top of enemy troops and tank shock half the unit to death considering how large the model is.
Bear in mind that there are two very specific Bane Blade kits, each capable of building several variations of specific Bane Blade variants.
There's the Bane Blade kit, which of course makes the Bane Blade as well as any other free-turning turreted version (and by that I mean the turret can turn independently from the hull).
Then there is the shadow sword kit, which makes all Bane Blade kits that have fixed forward facing main guns. This includes the Shadow Sword, Storm Lord, and at least three or four others in this kit.
If you want a shadow sword, be sure to get the right kit, as you can't build a shadow sword with the Bane Blade kit, or vice versa.
I voted the Banelade as I run the SPG hulled variant. I got mine before they began to include both in the same kit and it is a beast.
Last night I used it in a 2K match against GK and DA. Even though my poor Stormlord lost its main gun to the first shot of the game it proceeded to survive everything they threw at it (Grandmaster and Paladin with Demon hammers, Melta bombs, Lascannons, etc) I won the game in the end and my Stormlord managed to claim the DA Termie captain with a lucky lascannon shot as well as inflicting blistering broadsides with its sponsons and pintle Heavy Stubbers.
The IK would provide area denial for a Baneblade rampage.
If I were in a game with a Baneblade, I'd run it around, crushing infantry and dakka-ing everything it can see, until my opponent blows it up. Hopefully in proximity to valuable enemy units. Killing them.
With an IK in that game, the Baneblade would have to play keepaway all game. Still, 12" movement is a fun thing to have.
Putting aside model coolness (I think baneblade is a super awesome tank model), the Imperial Knight is just so much better competitively, IMO -- for many of the reasons already listed above.
@Crash - a Shadowsword is only nice if you play with little meaningful terrain (like a RoB outdoor set with just a few trees sprinkled on it). In most of the games we play, a Shadowsword is pointless, because the number of firing lanes is highly limited.
@Blacksails - yeah, I'm with you: inv save, d-weapon & stomps, and good shooting attacks makes it my pick hands down. It also physically fits more of the boards that we play better (the baneblade has a really, really large footprint)
CrashGordon94 wrote: On the other hand, I'm guessing that if it was far enough away, a Shadowsword would probably wreck a Knight before it could do too much?
If it hits, then probably.
The only thing stopping me from taking a Shadowsword (besides str D whining from old 4E players) is that Large Blasts with Bs3 (or even 4 with the targeters upgrade) always seem to miss when I use them.
More accuracy or larger blasts are about the only thing I can reliably use in blast form.
Also you ARE playing IG and a lot of people take issues with Allies, or will at least suggest stuff that doesn't require Allies before stuff that does.
Also I probably would try to play your Hellhammer + Crusader list in a large enough game, though I realize that means bugger all since I'm in a different country and deathly afraid of meeting internet people.
aronthomas17 wrote: The shadowsword is great tbh, hide it in some cover and snipe knights and other LOW's
Yeah, it seems to be one of the most popular BANEBLADES, if not the most popular.
Funnily enough, the IG-playing guy who introduced me to 40k hates the Shadowsword for this reason (his favorite is the Stormlord, though he also likes the Hellhammer).
The stormlord is good in apoc for taking ground when your IG platoon would normally get flattened by whatever scary guns your opponent has, I wouldn't recommend one in a normal game!!! Just my opinion though
Any of the IKs are better overall, but people love the Baneblade based platforms. I've owned a resin Baneblade for over 20 years (Armourcast), yet the entire time I've dreamed of fielding Knights. Now I can. Knight's rule, Baneblade's drool.
A little off topic, but a super-heavy tank nevertheless... My vote goes for a Macharius Vulcan. It looks badass, you'll need a bucket of dice for all the dakka it spits, and it is arguably more common in the fluff, but more unique on the table than a Baneblade variant or IK! It eat's entire squads of MEQ from the other side of the table in a cinch and, with the right buffing, will take out flyers and AV13, including IKs, in a round or two of shooting!
Crabbit wrote: A little off topic, but a super-heavy tank nevertheless... My vote goes for a Macharius Vulcan. It looks badass, you'll need a bucket of dice for all the dakka it spits, and it is arguably more common in the fluff, but more unique on the table than a Baneblade variant or IK! It eat's entire squads of MEQ from the other side of the table in a cinch and, with the right buffing, will take out flyers and AV13, including IKs, in a round or two of shooting!
By the sounds of it he probably wants to stick to Citadel models/standard rules, not Forge World stuff.
I also was thinking of picking up a baneblade, and would love to magnetize it when I do. Is it really possible to make a single tank with all 8 variants? Anyone have a link to a good tutorial on how to do it?
Crabbit wrote: A little off topic, but a super-heavy tank nevertheless... My vote goes for a Macharius Vulcan. It looks badass, you'll need a bucket of dice for all the dakka it spits, and it is arguably more common in the fluff, but more unique on the table than a Baneblade variant or IK! It eat's entire squads of MEQ from the other side of the table in a cinch and, with the right buffing, will take out flyers and AV13, including IKs, in a round or two of shooting!
By the sounds of it he probably wants to stick to Citadel models/standard rules, not Forge World stuff.
Just letting him know there are many other cool super-heavies available as LoW for the IoM from FW. If it is 40K approved, you are good to go!
Also Selym, I have a feeling the baneblade would survive longer and be able to dish out more damage if it was supported by the rest of an IG army in say a 1850-2000 pt game. I could be wrong though.
I own both and honestly I would go for the Baneblade, reaons being after the shock facter of playing a knight (I call them Half blood titans, or Demi Titans) they are decent all arounders but the Baneblade can be talored to a role better(Case in point errant is the knight AV killer /Shadow sword is the Baneblase counter) as for the HellHamer that you are asking about it kills alot of things good and for the turreted version it has a higher chance compared to the Mars Baneblade but remember you are sacraficing range and there for have a very high chance of being charged where the bane blade loses. so think of what you want to do with it. If you are taking it to kill knights make it kill knights (Shadow) with LC sponsons you can fire at up to 3 IN units and 3 AV units and will almost alwasy remove something off the table. if you need just a pinch unit go for the BaneBlade cant put that glorious beast in a bad spot and for heavy cover tables and citys HellHammers. thats my 2 Cents though.
Crabbit wrote: Just letting him know there are many other cool super-heavies available as LoW for the IoM from FW. If it is 40K approved, you are good to go!
True enough, but I wouldn't blame him if he didn't want to deal with expensive fiddly models or new books.
All you need to do, is half the diameter, measure that out on the tape, place the tape over the center of the blast, and anything within that distance is hit.
Hey, why not go with an unbound super-heavy tank company ?
But, yeah. If you haven't got any apocalypse templates, then that's a point in favour of the shadowsword.
It's an iconic tank, and whilst it's not invincible - far from it - it does nevertheless keep people honest with the terrifying potential of that volcano cannon. Every couple of games it'll manage Dat Shot which goes straight through an imperial knight or a riptide without slowing down....
At the same time, the Imperial Knight is better. The melee destruction of a Reaper Chainsword - plus the virtual immunity to assault itself, and the benefits of an invulnerable save against melta/haywire weapons, make it a better use of points, plus it's cheaper.
All you need to do, is half the diameter, measure that out on the tape, place the tape over the center of the blast, and anything within that distance is hit.
Certainly doable, but would be a pain to do, I could imagine, particularly when dealing with scatter.
locarno24 wrote:Hey, why not go with an unbound super-heavy tank company ?
Because nobody would probably want to play against it, I could imagine.
I don't need to tailor my normal list. I assume I will see a super heavy or 3 across the table in every game. So I bring the tools to deal with them. And it doesn't hurt my effectiveness either.
In the end a super heavy is the same as any other unit. A tool, if you use it right then it will be good and if you try and use it for something its not made for it cna bite you in the but!
I is around 530 pluss a melta bomb and the Warhound is 700 plus 4 melta bombs. so a bit cheeper but you are right it becomes something you build your army around. not something you just add to an army. but it is also around the same price as a baneblade with sponsons
Nah its not that bad. now if you start throwing the upgraid stick at it on yea it will cost you an arm and a leg AND your las guns. but naked for basic boom gun its ok
Well whenever you get the 'Blade, I've found twotutorials on how to magnetize it so it can be all the different versions, there could be better ones out there but haven't looked that hard.
Imperial Knights have more utility in games, not least because they have a lower average points cost. That said, I much prefer the tanks; they are bigger, uglier, more Imperial and a helluva lot more Dakka.
