I enjoy watching a T.V. show on Animal planet called "pit bulls and Parolees". The last episode I watched had a touching story about a US Veteran who moved across country and begged the Villalobos Rescue center to transport his dogs for him because he wasn't able to. He on Camera and on the Phone claimed to have been deployed to Afghanistan for 9 years, had PTSD and was a USAF veteran.
This immediately set off my bull excrement sensor so I looked into it. And I came across his professional Resume http://joshuabaines.com/experience/
Can any USAF Veterans give me a heads up, I know for a fact that in the USMC you can't deploy for 9 years straight but maybe the airforce is more hardcore then i thought
its stolen valor btw because he is using it in a professional resume and used it to gain a benefit from the T.V. show to transport his dogs
...which doesn't necessary indicate foul play, but I'll call BS on anybody claiming to have done "hundreds" of combat jumps. In addition, he says he got his training at Andrews AFB, while the USAF link clearly does not list that location as a place where they do combat controller training.
And to parrot the point a bit from Nuggz... if we base anything on the claims.... In order to get "hundreds" of combat jumps, he'd have to have over 44 combat jumps with other countries, spanning all the way back through WW2.... Yeah, Sorry, but there's simply no way anyone can serve from WW2 through the present
So judging by the responses my BS detector seems to be working just fine. So what do you all think about the "Stolen Valor" claim then? Do you consider receiving favors or consideration for a job to qualify as fraud?
Ghazkuul wrote: So judging by the responses my BS detector seems to be working just fine. So what do you all think about the "Stolen Valor" claim then? Do you consider receiving favors or consideration for a job to qualify as fraud?
Might as well. The guys on the Stolen Valor FB group live for stuff like this. They aren't going to drag a good guy through the mud, but if the guy is going to go on TV then he warrants investigation.
Ghazkuul wrote: So judging by the responses my BS detector seems to be working just fine. So what do you all think about the "Stolen Valor" claim then? Do you consider receiving favors or consideration for a job to qualify as fraud?
If you say you served/did something and it turns out you never did it, it's obviously fraud. I think whether that merits firing/dismissal will depend on the employer and what it is they expect of the employee. Does anyone really care that a UPS delivery man said he served when he never did (aside from the initial outrage of "you lied to me!")?
Ghazkuul wrote: So judging by the responses my BS detector seems to be working just fine. So what do you all think about the "Stolen Valor" claim then? Do you consider receiving favors or consideration for a job to qualify as fraud?
If you say you served/did something and it turns out you never did it, it's obviously fraud. I think whether that merits firing/dismissal will depend on the employer and what it is they expect of the employee. Does anyone really care that a UPS delivery man said he served when he never did (aside from the initial outrage of "you lied to me!")?
Actually no, according to the supreme court, lying about serving in the military is protected by the 1st amendment. So it is completely legal to act like a donkey cave. However, they came out with a law about Stolen Valor which says that the second you gain a benefit from your lie you are committing fraud. So would the Resume and the benefit of having his dogs shipped across the country (Free of charge) be enough to be found guilty of fraud?
Did you guys also think he is overexxagertaing himself? Maybe he used "Hundreds" because to the layman that could be considered impressive. And again, he could have meant over nine years he has been deployed.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Did you guys also think he is overexxagertaing himself? Maybe he used "Hundreds" because to the layman that could be considered impressive. And again, he could have meant over nine years he has been deployed.
"I was deployed to afghanistan for 9 years" kind of hard to misinterpret that. Also, a Combat drop means dropping into hostile territory by parachute. Even in 04 it wasn't really a combat drop. He is attempting to say he was USAF special forces.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Did you guys also think he is overexxagertaing himself? Maybe he used "Hundreds" because to the layman that could be considered impressive. And again, he could have meant over nine years he has been deployed.
"I was deployed to afghanistan for 9 years" kind of hard to misinterpret that. Also, a Combat drop means dropping into hostile territory by parachute. Even in 04 it wasn't really a combat drop. He is attempting to say he was USAF special forces.
And the Special Operations community just loves to out these guys.
It's almost as when you're retired from that community, you're bound by blood oath to be some combination of fitness instructor, private military contractor, weird outdoors nut recluse, author and token Special Forces (tm) celebrity on mainstream news outlets, or Youtube celebrity who spends his days outing posers.
"I was deployed to afghanistan for 9 years" kind of hard to misinterpret that.
Afghan lasted for 16 years so it it theoretically possible. I met an US Army RSM equivalent in Iraq in 2009, just before the UK withdrew, who had deployed there almost continually since 2003; IIRC he said that he had only spent about 18 months at home in 6 years.
"I was deployed to afghanistan for 9 years" kind of hard to misinterpret that.
Afghan lasted for 16 years so it it theoretically possible. I met an US Army RSM equivalent in Iraq in 2009, just before the UK withdrew, who had deployed there almost continually since 2003; IIRC he said that he had only spent about 18 months at home in 6 years.
14 years as of right now. not 16. Also after the invasion of Iraq the main effort switched and Afghanistan was on the back burner until about 08-09. And even with continuous deployments the rule we have is double time. For every day you are deployed they have to keep you in the US For 2 days. If they dont they have to pay you extra. Also, in the US military you earn leave at 2.5 days a month so this guy would have wracked up an incredible amount of leave and Deployment leave. Don't get me wrong, the USMC never cared if you wasted your leave (Only allowed 60 days of leave on the books, anymore was literally wasted). And lastly, this guy was USAF,they don't deploy that much, even during the height of the wars. And even more importantly he claims to be SF, the USMC and US Army SF do multiple deployments but they are always short deployments due to OP tempo. So it would have been impossible to deploy that often
In this end this guy is a Donkey cave who got caught on national television lying.
Ghazkuul wrote: Actually no, according to the supreme court, lying about serving in the military is protected by the 1st amendment. So it is completely legal to act like a donkey cave. However, they came out with a law about Stolen Valor which says that the second you gain a benefit from your lie you are committing fraud. So would the Resume and the benefit of having his dogs shipped across the country (Free of charge) be enough to be found guilty of fraud?
The big issue here is can you prove that the resume, and specifically the claim about military service, is what got him the job?
"I was deployed to afghanistan for 9 years" kind of hard to misinterpret that.
Afghan lasted for 16 years so it it theoretically possible. I met an US Army RSM equivalent in Iraq in 2009, just before the UK withdrew, who had deployed there almost continually since 2003; IIRC he said that he had only spent about 18 months at home in 6 years.
14 years as of right now. not 16. Also after the invasion of Iraq the main effort switched and Afghanistan was on the back burner until about 08-09. And even with continuous deployments the rule we have is double time. For every day you are deployed they have to keep you in the US For 2 days. If they dont they have to pay you extra. Also, in the US military you earn leave at 2.5 days a month so this guy would have wracked up an incredible amount of leave and Deployment leave. Don't get me wrong, the USMC never cared if you wasted your leave (Only allowed 60 days of leave on the books, anymore was literally wasted). And lastly, this guy was USAF,they don't deploy that much, even during the height of the wars. And even more importantly he claims to be SF, the USMC and US Army SF do multiple deployments but they are always short deployments due to OP tempo. So it would have been impossible to deploy that often
In this end this guy is a Donkey cave who got caught on national television lying.
Not saying this guy is or is not telling the truth but I;m fairly sure that our LDHD personnel (Low Density/High Demand) were violating the double time rule at multiple times the last decade plus (and if his resume is accurate he was). It got so bad the entire AF automatically got an increase in carryover leave that is only now going away.
"I was deployed to afghanistan for 9 years" kind of hard to misinterpret that.
Afghan lasted for 16 years so it it theoretically possible. I met an US Army RSM equivalent in Iraq in 2009, just before the UK withdrew, who had deployed there almost continually since 2003; IIRC he said that he had only spent about 18 months at home in 6 years.
14 years as of right now. not 16. Also after the invasion of Iraq the main effort switched and Afghanistan was on the back burner until about 08-09. And even with continuous deployments the rule we have is double time. For every day you are deployed they have to keep you in the US For 2 days. If they dont they have to pay you extra. Also, in the US military you earn leave at 2.5 days a month so this guy would have wracked up an incredible amount of leave and Deployment leave. Don't get me wrong, the USMC never cared if you wasted your leave (Only allowed 60 days of leave on the books, anymore was literally wasted). And lastly, this guy was USAF,they don't deploy that much, even during the height of the wars. And even more importantly he claims to be SF, the USMC and US Army SF do multiple deployments but they are always short deployments due to OP tempo. So it would have been impossible to deploy that often
In this end this guy is a Donkey cave who got caught on national television lying.
Not saying this guy is or is not telling the truth but I;m fairly sure that our LDHD personnel (Low Density/High Demand) were violating the double time rule at multiple times the last decade plus (and if his resume is accurate he was). It got so bad the entire AF automatically got an increase in carryover leave that is only now going away.
Trust me I know, my MOS in the USMC was LDHD as well, and the entire USMC got the same increase in leave, I think it went to 90 days, but its gone now as well. But, nobody would be deployed 9 years in a row, hell I knew personnel who have 1 deployment in those same years and in a LDHD job.
Ghazkuul wrote: So it is completely legal to act like a donkey cave. However, they came out with a law about Stolen Valor which says that the second you gain a benefit from your lie you are committing fraud. So would the Resume and the benefit of having his dogs shipped across the country (Free of charge) be enough to be found guilty of fraud?
Hmm. While we don't have the same laws here there are employers who like their male employees to have done their mandatory service (and the police actually demand it), and some also give you an extra dose of "benefit of a doubt" for leadership positions if you produce your reserve officer credentials. But it's all inofficial (except the police) so they couldn't really kick a guy just for lying about his military record. The only fraud we've seen is some scum dressing up for Veteran collections and pocketing the money they manage to collect, which is a criminal offense.
Getting a free dog lift could qualify as fraud, but it does depend on whether the provider does it free for any veteran or was just talked into it by a nice story. Would they have done it for a poor single mother, or a disabled child? Do they actually have any criteria listed for giving someone a freebie?
Ghazkuul wrote: So it is completely legal to act like a donkey cave. However, they came out with a law about Stolen Valor which says that the second you gain a benefit from your lie you are committing fraud. So would the Resume and the benefit of having his dogs shipped across the country (Free of charge) be enough to be found guilty of fraud?
Getting a free dog lift could qualify as fraud, but it does depend on whether the provider does it free for any veteran or was just talked into it by a nice story. Would they have done it for a poor single mother, or a disabled child? Do they actually have any criteria listed for giving someone a freebie?
No, they handle it on a case-by-case basis. However, they are hemorrhaging money like its going out of style (they never turn down a dog, and don't make alot from the adoptions). My wife and I actually just sent a box of throw blankets for the dog's kennels.
So if he's being a lying scumbag, not only is he committing fraud, but he's putting an amazing rescue/rehabilitation program that much further in the hole.
If the guy is being honest about what is AFSC was (thats MOS to you non USAF types), then you seriously do have egg all over your face, particularly if he was part of the 24th STS.
Im also not seeing where it says he was deployed for 9 years.
Ghazkuul wrote: And even with continuous deployments the rule we have is double time. For every day you are deployed they have to keep you in the US For 2 days.
At the height of our rotations in the army, it was quite common for a unit to go year on, year off. They only really started cracking down on "down time" when they instituted the absurd 15 month rotation. The nice thing with those rapid deployments was that during my second one, the army instituted "administrative leave" where you could go from your base 60 days leave, to 90, depending on how long and how often you had deployed since 03.
chaos0xomega wrote: If the guy is being honest about what is AFSC was (thats MOS to you non USAF types), then you seriously do have egg all over your face, particularly if he was part of the 24th STS.
Im also not seeing where it says he was deployed for 9 years.
Im just lauhing that he is getting so worked over over one thing which could be an exaggeration and 2 which may be mis-remembering.
I mean really, there are people out there that put this much effort into exposing someone as a fraud(that they dont know) that they never met.
Exaggerating and mis-remembering in order to gain free things from charitable organizations. And in a time where there is less and less help to go around to veterans. I'd hardly say it is a laughable thing, hotsauce.
chaos0xomega wrote: If the guy is being honest about what is AFSC was (thats MOS to you non USAF types), then you seriously do have egg all over your face, particularly if he was part of the 24th STS.
Im also not seeing where it says he was deployed for 9 years.
Im just lauhing that he is getting so worked over over one thing which could be an exaggeration and 2 which may be mis-remembering.
I mean really, there are people out there that put this much effort into exposing someone as a fraud(that they dont know) that they never met.
On the flip side of that, there's paperwork for EVERYTHING in the military, and I'd bet the AF is no different. If he really did deploy, he'd simply have to look at his record brief to see how long it was. For instance, If I forgot that I spent just a hair under 2 years in Iraq, I could look at the last copy of my ERB (enlisted record brief) to see that time. Also, in that regard, I tend to say I was deployed for "about 2 years", because honestly it's easier to say than "21 months"... and I hate it when people do that gak with their kids, so rounding is just easier.
Also, while I'm just a casual commenter in this thread, I think you'd be VERY hard pressed to find an actual vet who didn't know the exact number of months (if not days) they spent "in country"
Yeah, I could care less about people claiming to do this or that when it comes to military service. But if they claim it to take benefits that should be going to people that serve it's a different story.
As a sidenote it always amazes me how many people try to claim they were in some form of special operations.
Hulksmash wrote: As a sidenote it always amazes me how many people try to claim they were in some form of special operations.
It's a good story, and some people just have to tell stories. Some of them are called pathological liers. We had one at work who even seemed to believe his own stories about his qualifications for this and that better job, but in the end he was just an overweight uneducated man. Foreman for airport security, harbor diver in Barcelona... Last I heard he was selling vacuum cleaners door-to-door.
Ofc, a few of these veteran impersonators claim they do it out of respect for the service. Maybe, possibly, if they don't use it to get free food or other benefits.
chaos0xomega wrote: If the guy is being honest about what is AFSC was (thats MOS to you non USAF types), then you seriously do have egg all over your face, particularly if he was part of the 24th STS.
Im also not seeing where it says he was deployed for 9 years.
Im just lauhing that he is getting so worked over over one thing which could be an exaggeration and 2 which may be mis-remembering.
I mean really, there are people out there that put this much effort into exposing someone as a fraud(that they dont know) that they never met.
He claimed his 9 years deployed in the actual television show. And in the show the hosts even said they were doing the favor for him because he was a veteran.
So anyway back on topic. The highest OP tempo of anyone was the Army/Marine infantry units and certain other specialty MOSs such as Intel. SF are high tempo but usually do short rotations in and out. nobody, and I repeat NOBODY stays deployed for 9 years. I begged and pleaded to be the stay behind element for my battalion and they wouldn't let me or anyone else because of money constraints. The fact that even the army would only do 1 year on 1 year off tells you how much BS this guy was full of.
JSOC (which he would have been part of if he was in 24STS) operates under different rules (and a somewhat different budget) than the rest of the military. Also, from what I've been told by a few secret squirrel types that I know personally is that while they rotate in/out at a high frequency, a lot of the time when they rotated out they were going to an undisclosed base in an undisclosed country not far from the AO for a bit of downtime, rather than back to the States or a base in Germany/Korea/Diego Garcia.
Also, did he say that he was deployed to Afghanistan for 9 years, or just deployed for 9 years? The two are different things. He could very well have been 'deployed' for 9 years, rotating in and out of Afghanistan, Germany, South Korea, etc. and he would have technically been correct, though it is still a bit misleading since most people wouldn't consider Germany or S. Korea to be 'deployed' (I'm not sure the military does either anymore though back in the early 90s and through the Cold War they were, as such I know several retirees who were "deployed" their entire career/for 10-20 years/never served at all stateside).
Germany most definitely is not a "deployed" location. IIRC, S. Korea is a bit of a grey area, because we're still technically at war with N. Korea, but anyone who's been stationed there, feel free to let us know.
That said, there are a VERY small number of people who "deploy" to Germany. I've met about a dozen people from the 82nd, 101st, 4ID, etc. who were "deployed" to Landstuhl hospital, but they were there because their unit was in Iraq/Afghanistan, and if someone was medivac'd there, there needed to be a unit rep to do organic paperwork and such.... So they were away from family, as deployed soldiers, but not technically deployed.
chaos0xomega wrote: If the guy is being honest about what is AFSC was (thats MOS to you non USAF types), then you seriously do have egg all over your face, particularly if he was part of the 24th STS.
Im also not seeing where it says he was deployed for 9 years.
Im just lauhing that he is getting so worked over over one thing which could be an exaggeration and 2 which may be mis-remembering.
I mean really, there are people out there that put this much effort into exposing someone as a fraud(that they dont know) that they never met.
He claimed his 9 years deployed in the actual television show. And in the show the hosts even said they were doing the favor for him because he was a veteran.
I have been in school for 6 years.Oh wait no, only like 35 months. But I ay 6 years. You are assuming Malicious intent for two things and nothing else. It looks to me like you want a witch hunt. I mean, you called the police one someone you never freaking meet and saw on TV and online. that is some Busy Body Behaviour.
chaos0xomega wrote: If the guy is being honest about what is AFSC was (thats MOS to you non USAF types), then you seriously do have egg all over your face, particularly if he was part of the 24th STS.
Im also not seeing where it says he was deployed for 9 years.
Im just lauhing that he is getting so worked over over one thing which could be an exaggeration and 2 which may be mis-remembering.
I mean really, there are people out there that put this much effort into exposing someone as a fraud(that they dont know) that they never met.
He claimed his 9 years deployed in the actual television show. And in the show the hosts even said they were doing the favor for him because he was a veteran.
I have been in school for 6 years.Oh wait no, only like 35 months. But I ay 6 years. You are assuming Malicious intent for two things and nothing else. It looks to me like you want a witch hunt. I mean, you called the police one someone you never freaking meet and saw on TV and online. that is some Busy Body Behaviour.
Aye, I was thinking about this. If I asked how long someone has been at University/school, I will get an answer along the lines of "5 years" or "two and a half years". But the actual time spent at uni/school is only about half of that.
I think Germany is an Accompanied Remote Tour? Although I seem to remember certain stations were switched over to Unaccompanied not too long ago. I know Korea is (or at least was until very recently) considered an Unaccompanied Remote Tour. Sidenote - I dont know if this is nomenclature anyone outside the USAF would be familiar with.
Wording is important and without exact quotes... Deployed for 9 years could be deployed for the last 9 years straight (what you're thinking), deployed for the majority of the last 9 years (what I originally thought) or deployed for a total of 9 years in his career. For the AFSCs listed on the link you provided earlier yes those last two are possible.
Jerram wrote: Wording is important and without exact quotes... Deployed for 9 years could be deployed for the last 9 years straight (what you're thinking), deployed for the majority of the last 9 years (what I originally thought) or deployed for a total of 9 years in his career. For the AFSCs listed on the link you provided earlier yes those last two are possible.
Not only is it possible, but I would be surprised if it wasn't the case.
I have been in school for 6 years.Oh wait no, only like 35 months. But I ay 6 years. You are assuming Malicious intent for two things and nothing else. It looks to me like you want a witch hunt. I mean, you called the police one someone you never freaking meet and saw on TV and online. that is some Busy Body Behaviour.
The difference between claiming a school year and a full calendar year are minimal, the difference between claiming a full year deployed and part of a year deployed are minimal. Claiming to have been deployed for 9 years is a big deal.
Those who have served, and been deployed, and actually have PTSD find it extremely rude bordering on the insulting when people claim to have done similar things but didn't. The courts rules that Pretending to be a Veteran is legal under the 1st amendment, EXCEPT when gaining a favor or benefit due to the lie, then it becomes fraud. So what your doing is calling me out for reporting someone who very probably lied and is committing fraud.
I don't understand why you would defend this type of behavior.
chaos0xomega wrote: Because you have absolutely no evidence to support the argument that this is a case of Stolen Valor?
Which is why i reported it to the police/USAF to investigate. I am not the police nor the courts, I wont be the one who decides to act on this. I am just the guy who saw someone who most likely is lying through his teeth to get a benefit out of it.
Go watch the episode of Pitbulls and parolees where he very clearly states he was deployed for 9 years to afghanistan. And since he says he got out of the military in 2010 that means he was deployed every single year of the war, but only to Afghanistan. I don't know a single person who was deploying during that same time period who didn't spend at least one tour in Iraq . Nor do I know anyone with that much experience who didn't get forced into a training billet of some sort. Hell my Gunny in Afghanistan had to beg, plead and threaten to get onto our deployment.
chaos0xomega wrote: Because you have absolutely no evidence to support the argument that this is a case of Stolen Valor?
Pretty much. I think people who do participate in that behavior are MEH. but he is attempting to drag someones name through the mud having
1: Only seen him on TV
2: Based of two things that might be exxageration/mis-remembering.
3: Cause he seems to have to always come to the defense of the military.
chaos0xomega wrote: Because you have absolutely no evidence to support the argument that this is a case of Stolen Valor?
Which is why i reported it to the police/USAF to investigate. I am not the police nor the courts, I wont be the one who decides to act on this. I am just the guy who saw someone who most likely is lying through his teeth to get a benefit out of it.
I bet the police/ASAF just laughed when the hung up.They have better things to do.
Ghazkuul wrote: The difference between claiming a school year and a full calendar year are minimal, the difference between claiming a full year deployed and part of a year deployed are minimal. Claiming to have been deployed for 9 years is a big deal.
Except, as noted, a school year is about 50% of a calendar year. That's not minimal.
Those who have served, and been deployed, and actually have PTSD find it extremely rude bordering on the insulting when people claim to have done similar things but didn't.
They can insult whoever they want. I believe it's your First Amendment?
The courts rules that Pretending to be a Veteran is legal under the 1st amendment,
Ah, it was the 1st.
EXCEPT when gaining a favor or benefit due to the lie, then it becomes fraud.
Yep. Do you have any proof of fraud, or that the benefit was only obtained due to the specific claim of "9 years deployed"? That is, would the benefit still exist if he were only deployed for 5 years, and exaggerated?
So what your doing is calling me out for reporting someone who very probably lied and is committing fraud.
Possibly lied. You have only vague circumstantial evidence to support this.
I don't understand why you would defend this type of behavior.
Possible fraud? Nobody here condones that. It's the rather exreme reaction that some of us find a little odd, given the evidence to support your claim.
Ghazkuul wrote: The difference between claiming a school year and a full calendar year are minimal, the difference between claiming a full year deployed and part of a year deployed are minimal. Claiming to have been deployed for 9 years is a big deal.
Except, as noted, a school year is about 50% of a calendar year. That's not minimal.
Those who have served, and been deployed, and actually have PTSD find it extremely rude bordering on the insulting when people claim to have done similar things but didn't.
They can insult whoever they want. I believe it's your First Amendment?
The courts rules that Pretending to be a Veteran is legal under the 1st amendment,
Ah, it was the 1st.
EXCEPT when gaining a favor or benefit due to the lie, then it becomes fraud.
Yep. Do you have any proof of fraud, or that the benefit was only obtained due to the specific claim of "9 years deployed"? That is, would the benefit still exist if he were only deployed for 5 years, and exaggerated?
So what your doing is calling me out for reporting someone who very probably lied and is committing fraud.
Possibly lied. You have only vague circumstantial evidence to support this.
I don't understand why you would defend this type of behavior.
Possible fraud? Nobody here condones that. It's the rather exreme reaction that some of us find a little odd, given the evidence to support your claim.
The solution to that is to fill out a SF-180 and wait a few weeks/months. And I will let the AF/PD do that instead of wasting my time with SFs.
chaos0xomega wrote: Because you have absolutely no evidence to support the argument that this is a case of Stolen Valor?
Which is why i reported it to the police/USAF to investigate. I am not the police nor the courts, I wont be the one who decides to act on this. I am just the guy who saw someone who most likely is lying through his teeth to get a benefit out of it.
Go watch the episode of Pitbulls and parolees where he very clearly states he was deployed for 9 years to afghanistan. And since he says he got out of the military in 2010 that means he was deployed every single year of the war, but only to Afghanistan. I don't know a single person who was deploying during that same time period who didn't spend at least one tour in Iraq . Nor do I know anyone with that much experience who didn't get forced into a training billet of some sort. Hell my Gunny in Afghanistan had to beg, plead and threaten to get onto our deployment.
He may be exaggerating his deployment time, but I don't think that really qualifies as "stolen valour" if they're exaggerating some kernel of truth. I've known more than a few ex-military guys who constantly make stuff up about their time in service, sometimes for giggles & a good story, sometimes for attention, sometimes to compensate & compete, sometimes for free stuff, etc. A friend of mine was deployed to Iraq doing IT work aand the closest thing he ever had to deal with was a mortar landing a few hundred feet away (and never left the main Baghdad base), but his former roomie who was deployed in his same unit always talks about how he did street patrols outside the base and engaged in multiple firefights. Everyone just sort of nods and thinks "yeah right", and moves on.
-Shrike- wrote: ? Nobody here condones that. It's the rather exreme reaction that some of us find a little odd, given the evidence to support your claim.
What's wrong with the evidence? It's casual recollection of a one-off comment made on a low-rent mostly-staged reality TV show, how is that not stone-cold-lock-of-the-century indication of guilt? They could be hanging a man on less than that and still being overly generous with the presumption of innocence. That you can even question this can only lead me to think you hate America, hate Veterans and are possibly a terrorist.
-Shrike- wrote: ? Nobody here condones that. It's the rather exreme reaction that some of us find a little odd, given the evidence to support your claim.
What's wrong with the evidence? It's casual recollection of a one-off comment made on a low-rent mostly-staged reality TV show, how is that not stone-cold-lock-of-the-century indication of guilt? They could be hanging a man on less than that and still being overly generous with the presumption of innocence. That you can even question this can only lead me to think you hate America, hate Veterans and are possibly a terrorist.
Curses, you've discovered my secret - I'm actually a communist Russian planning a glorious attack for the motherland!
Ghazkuul wrote: [MOD EDIT - YES, IT DOES VIOLATE RULE #1 - ALPHARIUS]
You probably wouldn't take it very well, would you? Yet that statement basically sums up your current behavior and your dogged determination to slander others whom you dont even know. Seriously brah, go have a brew and read some Terminal Lance. Maybe some of Max's commentary about how stupid the Stolen Valor witchhunt is will sink in and you can find a less confrontational hobby.
I know an ex-Army guy who is now an officer with the Public Health Service. Which means he wears a naval uniform with PHS markings and PHS ribbons in addition to the Army ribbons he is entitled to wear. If you have no idea about the PHS it looks like a random uniform with ribbons that you picked out of a big bowl before you slapped them on.
He has had some muttering, but he just knows that one day someone on a stolen valor crusade is going to try and call him out on his fake uniform.
It is rather amusing to me to see how many people in dakka's community will take something they support without any factual evidence to back up there position and run with it. But god help you if you go against anything they say.
I started this thread because I wasn't sure if it was someone openly lying or if it was someone who is apparently a super human SF Operator. Having seen the guy on the show, having seen his reaction to talking about combat and then having read his resume im going to assume he is lying through his teeth, he very well might have been in the USAF which is not at all hard to do. But I will wager a months wages that he is lying about his "Deployments" to afghanistan. He said he deployed to afghanistan for 9 years, Even being generous and saying he meant to say he did 9 short 3-6 month deployments over the space of 9 years he would still be one of the most decorated USAF airmen from this last war. In the end what you say and what I say doesn't mean anything. The Matter is being handled by the USAF and the PD, if they decide to look into it good, if not, ohh well.
Ghazkuul wrote: He said he deployed to afghanistan for 9 years, Even being generous and saying he meant to say he did 9 short 3-6 month deployments over the space of 9 years he would still be one of the most decorated USAF airmen from this last war.
You might be surprised by that. Unlike the SEALS (and the Marines, not that they warrant mention here), AFSOC ARE actually 'quiet professionals', you would be surprised by what some of our Air Commandos have accomplished and done, and probably wonder why you've never heard about it. Generally speaking, the Air Force keeps even quieter about its contributions to the special operations community than the Army does.
Ghazkuul wrote: He said he deployed to afghanistan for 9 years, Even being generous and saying he meant to say he did 9 short 3-6 month deployments over the space of 9 years he would still be one of the most decorated USAF airmen from this last war.
You might be surprised by that. Unlike the SEALS (and the Marines, not that they warrant mention here), AFSOC ARE actually 'quiet professionals', you would be surprised by what some of our Air Commandos have accomplished and done, and probably wonder why you've never heard about it. Generally speaking, the Air Force keeps even quieter about its contributions to the special operations community than the Army does.
There is a reason they put them in charge of the stargate....
And its no coincidence that in the alternate history explored in Stargate Continuum in which the Navy WAS in charge of the Stargate program, everything goes tits up, the Russians are the dominant military power, and the world explodes, or something like that.
Trained Special Operations Forces Certified FAA Air Traffic Control Trained in motorcycle and snowmobile operations Performed hundreds of parachute jumps into hostile areas Trained in rappelling, fast-rope and various climbing techniques Performed Water Operations using both scuba and amphibious techniques Highly skilled technician with both supervisory and training responsibilities Responsible for subordinates and effective accomplishment of all assigned tasks Ensured proper use of all equipment, material and personnel under my command Deployed undetected into combat and hostile environments by various means over land and sea Established assault zones and airfields while simultaneously conducting air traffic control, fire support, command and control, direct action, counter-terrorism, foreign internal defense, humanitarian assistance and special reconnaissance
The above is from his professional experience. He is indeed claiming 9 years deployment, hundreds of combat jumps and so on. It wasn't just some off hand exaggeration, he has it on his professional page (or whatever his page is for).
Personally, given the evidence, I too would have notified people to look into these claims. Especially the combat jumps. I mean what is the likely hood even the best soldiers in the world perform hundreds of combat jumps into hostile territory in 9 years...?
You must be extremely thin skinned in order to let that get under your skin.
Seriously, its just a guy lying.
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chaos0xomega wrote: And its no coincidence that in the alternate history explored in Stargate Continuum in which the Navy WAS in charge of the Stargate program, everything goes tits up, the Russians are the dominant military power, and the world explodes, or something like that.
Which is weird, cause you think the Navy would be a great. Watching over a giant hole you send dozens of men through.
hotsauceman1 wrote: You must be extremely thin skinned in order to let that get under your skin.
Seriously, its just a guy lying.
When your local politician lies to get votes is it a problem?
When someone sets up a charity and takes the money is it a problem?
When someone tries to sell you something that doesn't work is it a problem?
When someone creates a false past to get sympathy and help is that a problem?
The answer to all of those is... yes. Yes it is a problem.
It may not be huge in the grand scheme of things. But imagine 50 people doing this, or 500! It's important to eliminate frauds of all kinds because although individually these people may not do a lot of harm, as a group they do.
hotsauceman1 wrote: I wish people hounded politicians who lie like they do here. Cause in that case, they are hurting someone, here they are mostly not
People do, you see news articles and so on whenever politicians lie (which is a lot by the way). Its just so normal maybe nobody does much about it?
Regardless, if someone asked for some money to buy lettuce and bread to feed their family, and you gave it to that person because they are a friend of yours would you be angry to see him walk out of a store with the latest CD, or maybe he got some ice cream instead, what if he used to to play arcade games instead?
It's not hard to see the problem dude.
Or a better example. He did the same as above but had no family to feed.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Um.....hat does any of that have to do with stolen valor?
Because thats what stolen valor is... when some lies about their service history for benefits. One could argue it's when someone lies about their service history, but I think legally it's when they try use these lies for benefits. Like the dude in the OP was doing.
He is trying to get charity from others on a TV show clearly using his service history (false history maybe) to gain charity help. Which is most certainly stolen valor yes?
The only thing that seems fishy in his resume is his hundreds of combat jumps. If he is talking about combat heavy jumps it could be legit. Combat heavy jump is at night with all your gear jumping for practice if the real thing ever happens. If he is talking about actual Combat jumps there has only been one done by the 75th Ranger Regiment in Afghanistan and that was in the beginning of the war.
Which is exactly why he was reported so people who have the ability can check up on this...
Which then means its not an over reaction yes? If you think someone did a crime you report them. If he is innocent then we can all laugh at the ghaz.
Im laughing now because he called the police in likely another state, to investigate a man for possibly lying.
Which means he had to look all this stuff up, just to catch a guy who never did anything to him
To me, that a busy body nannying right there.
Which is exactly why he was reported so people who have the ability can check up on this...
Which then means its not an over reaction yes? If you think someone did a crime you report them. If he is innocent then we can all laugh at the ghaz.
Im laughing now because he called the police in likely another state, to investigate a man for possibly lying.
Which means he had to look all this stuff up, just to catch a guy who never did anything to him
To me, that a busy body nannying right there.
No that is what citizens of a nation should do when there is legitimate reason to suspect crime. What he is doing is what all people should do when they see or hear suspicious activity. Like Ghaz said if they don't see its worth looking into they wont. I would say that is the right thing to do in this instance.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Cool, Im gonna go report my neighbors for every crime I see now
Good. Honestly if you didn't then I would be shocked.
Underage drinking, weed, and illegal downloads are three crimes that I certainly don't bother reporting, because if I did 95% of the people I know would have a criminal record. Does that shock you?
His resume doesnt actually say combat jump, it says "parachute jump into hostile areas". Yall are seriously just lookin to crucify someone at this point, to the extent that youre making up accomplishments *for* him.
Once again, since yall dont seem to get it, CCTs (Combat Controllers) and PJs (Pararescue Jumpers), which is what this gentleman is claiming to be, are special operations forces. They are not "infantry" or "grunts" or anything else short of honest-to-goodness-snake-eating-steely-eyed-stone-hearted-cold-blooded killers. Specifically, these are the types of Spec Ops that are attached to SEALs, Delta, and other more shadowy units that youve probably never even heard of, that engage in combat operations you dont know existed, in countries you dont know that were operating in. PJs, BY DEFINITION, insert by parachute or helicopter to save other peoples lives, depending on the unit they are in, the people they are saving might be honest-to-goodness-snake-eating-steely-eyed-stone-hearted-cold-blooded killers themselves. Yes, sometimes even SEALs need backup.
CCTs exist to coordinate airdrops of both man and materiel into hostile territory, something which often necessitates that Combat Controllers jump into the gak beforehand. The Rangers combat junp in 04? You can thank a CCT for that.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Cool, Im gonna go report my neighbors for every crime I see now
Good. Honestly if you didn't then I would be shocked.
Underage drinking, weed, and illegal downloads are three crimes that I certainly don't bother reporting, because if I did 95% of the people I know would have a criminal record. Does that shock you?
If you think a crime is not worth reporting thats for you to decide. But if someone thinks a crime is worth reporting then is it worth being annoyed, upset or confused as to why they are reporting it?
My original point is, Ghaz is doing nothing wrong by reporting something he sees as suspicious. You may disagree, but if you disagree then you don't have to report.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Cool, Im gonna go report my neighbors for every crime I see now
Good. Honestly if you didn't then I would be shocked.
Surem, nothing like creating an atmosphere where everyone is afraid someone might report them for something minor.
Again it may be minor individually but if thousands do it then it no longer is a minor problem is it. It becomes a big problem. If people could get away with stolen valor because some people think it's not a big deal then the problem would get worse as people exploit it (like has and does happen).
...which is why Ghaz referred the matter to others who will investigate.
Also, while I have no *proof* that he lied, I'm fairly certain that he did given my own subject matter expertise, and the subject matter expertise of other veterans in this thread. For example, there's no way he's executed "hundreds" of jumps, which he claims very clearly on his resume.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Cool, Im gonna go report my neighbors for every crime I see now
Good. Honestly if you didn't then I would be shocked.
Surem, nothing like creating an atmosphere where everyone is afraid someone might report them for something minor.
Out of curiousity Hotsauceman, have you or someone you know lied about serving in the military? because you really are trying hard to defend pretending to be a veteran.
hotsauceman1 wrote: You must be extremely thin skinned in order to let that get under your skin.
Seriously, its just a guy lying.
This has to be one of the most ignorant things I have read in a long time. I have never been in combat, but consider, if you will, what it is like for someone who on a possibly weekly or more often basis has friends killed and maimed, been wounded them self or have combat related disabilities that cause them pain on a daily basis. Then imagine what runs through their mind when they see some douche playing dress up and bull gaking tales of battle field heroics, building their reputation on the sacrifice of real soldiers.
Do you understand at least a little bit how this can piss some people that have been through this off?
So, how does them getting benefits(and quite alot less then actual veterans) make their scarfice any less "Noble" if you can call it that.
They are being thin skinned when someone possibly naybe, could be lying to get their dog transported is enough to get them in a huff.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Cool, Im gonna go report my neighbors for every crime I see now
Good. Honestly if you didn't then I would be shocked.
Surem, nothing like creating an atmosphere where everyone is afraid someone might report them for something minor.
Out of curiousity Hotsauceman, have you or someone you know lied about serving in the military? because you really are trying hard to defend pretending to be a veteran.
Wow, Ad Hominen attack, good one.
No, im just saying you are looking for a witch hunt to hurt the reputation of someone YOU NEVER MET and did nothing to you.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Cool, Im gonna go report my neighbors for every crime I see now
As you should if you suspect a crime, as Ghaz did.
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hotsauceman1 wrote: So, how does them getting benefits(and quite alot less then actual veterans) make their scarfice any less "Noble" if you can call it that.
They are being thin skinned when someone possibly naybe, could be lying to get their dog transported is enough to get them in a huff.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Cool, Im gonna go report my neighbors for every crime I see now
Good. Honestly if you didn't then I would be shocked.
Surem, nothing like creating an atmosphere where everyone is afraid someone might report them for something minor.
Out of curiousity Hotsauceman, have you or someone you know lied about serving in the military? because you really are trying hard to defend pretending to be a veteran.
Wow, Ad Hominen attack, good one.
No, im just saying you are looking for a witch hunt to hurt the reputation of someone YOU NEVER MET and did nothing to you.
Wow, just wow. So you're the type of person that would never go to the cops or anyone else if you thought something illegal was going on. Just go on your way and let people be victimized?
I really like your comment mocking the sacrifice of veterans, so I gave it a special prize. I really don't understand you, and how you can mock these guys like that.
Now you are putting words in my mouth.
No, I am saying that
1: You are attempting a witch hunt for a guy who you dont know, never met and trying to get a trouble for some stupid notion "He is lying" in which you do not know
2: Wasting peoples time.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Now you are putting words in my mouth.
No, I am saying that
1: You are attempting a witch hunt for a guy who you dont know, never met and trying to get a trouble for some stupid notion "He is lying" in which you do not know
2: Wasting peoples time.
No, you are the one getting all over Ghaz and calling him thin skinned because he suspected someone of doing something illegal and called on the proper authorities to investigate, as any citizen has a right to do. He's not Swatting, but has a reasonable suspicion.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Now you are putting words in my mouth.
No, I am saying that
1: You are attempting a witch hunt for a guy who you dont know, never met and trying to get a trouble for some stupid notion "He is lying" in which you do not know
2: Wasting peoples time.
It's mildly ironic that you accuse him of an ad homenim attack, then in the next post state that he's "attempting a witch hunt" and "wasting people's time"...
hotsauceman1 wrote: Now you are putting words in my mouth.
No, I am saying that
1: You are attempting a witch hunt for a guy who you dont know, never met and trying to get a trouble for some stupid notion "He is lying" in which you do not know
2: Wasting peoples time.
It's mildly ironic that you accuse him of an ad homenim attack, then in the next post state that he's "attempting a witch hunt" and "wasting people's time"...
Astute observation.
Some people in this thread, not naming any names, need to consider having a brief breather before posting more, else they'll get the thread locked, or worse they could get a warning
hotsauce, several people here who served in the military thought it was highly suspicious and thought he was probably lying, a lot of us agreed he might actually be a veteran and is just exaggerating his military record to either inflate his ego or to try and get benefits.
I understand you want to jump on anyone defending the military or veterans but if you really think that is unreasonable I ask you to only go research the units and men/woman who fought in this last war to understand why it is unreasonable to assume someone can deploy that many times in a row without a break.
So, you think I want to jump on people defending the military?
No, What I dislike are busybodies who try everything they can to get people in trouble. You seem to think I dislike the military. No I do not. I dislike the attitude of worshipping the military. Which Stolen Valor is a part of. It was easily covered under fraud. but for some reason it needed a special law because people feel that those who go into the military are special and deserve special things.
Ghazkuul wrote: I understand you want to jump on anyone defending the military or veterans but if you really think that is unreasonable I ask you to only go research the units and men/woman who fought in this last war to understand why it is unreasonable to assume someone can deploy that many times in a row without a break.
Depends on what sort of deployment we're talking about. Not sure about USAF (I'll ask tomorrow when i talk to the chairforce guys I'm working with atm) but USN considers you forward deployed almost indefinitely if your duty station is someplace like Japan or Korea. I doubt he was in country the whole time, but his duty station might have still been in theater.
hotsauceman1 wrote: So, you think I want to jump on people defending the military?
No, What I dislike are busybodies who try everything they can to get people in trouble. You seem to think I dislike the military. No I do not. I dislike the attitude of worshipping the military. Which Stolen Valor is a part of. It was easily covered under fraud. but for some reason it needed a special law because people feel that those who go into the military are special and deserve special things.
So because its a type of Fraud that has a special name you think its terrible? So should we also change the name to just rape then for Statutory rape? Just because they are underage they think they are special and deserve a special name for their types of rape....... who cares about what it is called its fraud.
As far as me being a "Busybody" I do find it offensive when someone impersonates a Veteran, I DO take it rather more seriously then you do because I have a bracelet I haven't taken off since 2011 with the name of my friend who stepped on an IED and didn't make it. I have a friend who was shot in the head by a Sniper (he lived believe it or not) and Another buddy who lost both his legs to an IED. And that was just from my one deployment. I have several other friends who are disabled for the rest of their lives because they served our country. So when someone tries to impersonate a veteran, especially to gain benefits of some sort it bugs me to no end and I will be a "Busy Body" to fix that problem.
I understand your point, you think its just a job and we signed up for it so why should we get more attention then you and your friends doing whatever you do. Regardless of what you think of the politics behind the wars we fight a lot of us signed up to SERVE our country, to shield our nation with our very lives if necessary. Yes we haven't been invaded since WWII but that doesn't change why we enlist. I have in the course of my enlistment and since then, run into a number of people who think that the only reason people join the military is because they are to stupid to get into college, wanted to steal from the government, wanted a place to live and all sorts of other demeaning and rude reasons. The fact is that this propagates a whole lot of problems that once led to how we treated our veterans of the Vietnam war. In the end you can think whatever the hell you would like of me. The law is on my side if he is fraudulent and if I ever suspect others I will report them as well.
Ohh and as a side note, go ahead and smoke pot in front of me or do something reckless behind the wheel because i'll report you for that as well. Going directly against popular belief, Rules were not meant to be broken. (I actually want Pot to be legalized so we can tax it, I dont smoke )
Ghazkuul wrote: I understand you want to jump on anyone defending the military or veterans but if you really think that is unreasonable I ask you to only go research the units and men/woman who fought in this last war to understand why it is unreasonable to assume someone can deploy that many times in a row without a break.
Depends on what sort of deployment we're talking about. Not sure about USAF (I'll ask tomorrow when i talk to the airforce guys I'm working with atm) but USN considers you forward deployed almost indefinitely if your duty station is someplace like Japan or Korea. I doubt he was in country the whole time, but his duty station might have still been in theater.
The only Air force base near Afghanistan that was considered in Theater was Manass, and it was (For some weird reason) considered a hardship post and was VERY short term. I understand what you mean though. But according to his resume and his comments on the T.V. show it isn't a case of a forward base but him actively saying he was in Afghanistan being a high speed operator for 9 years straight :p
So, you think that just because you decided on a career that is dangerous, you deserve more respect from people you never met? And answer me this, without an appeal to emotion, why is lying over military service worse then lying over something else? Such as lets say Tow Truck Drivers. They have it hard. My friend lost two of his co-workers this year because we decide driving doesnt come with an IQ minimum.
Ghaz, do you even read what I post? JSOC. The J stands for "joint", and unlike SEALs and Delta, CCTs deploy almost exclusively with units that *arent* part of the AF.
Beyond that, despite Manass being the only *base* in the vicinity of Afghanaland, the AF actually has quite a few remote outposts (the exact locations of which, as I understand it, are classified) that are used for SIGINT and air traffic control dotted throughout the region, usually only staffed by a handful of comm techs & radar operators and a small detachment of Security Force personnel. When I say remote, I really do mean * remote*, as in hours from the nearest FOB or Outpost, even by helo. I dont know if they are still there, but I know at least 1 of them was still in operation as of 18 months ago.
I understand your point, you think its just a job and we signed up for it so why should we get more attention then you and your friends doing whatever you do. Regardless of what you think of the politics behind the wars we fight a lot of us signed up to SERVE our country, to shield our nation with our very lives if necessary. Yes we haven't been invaded since WWII but that doesn't change why we enlist. I have in the course of my enlistment and since then, run into a number of people who think that the only reason people join the military is because they are to stupid to get into college, wanted to steal from the government, wanted a place to live and all sorts of other demeaning and rude reasons. The fact is that this propagates a whole lot of problems that once led to how we treated our veterans of the Vietnam war. In the end you can think whatever the hell you would like of me. The law is on my side if he is fraudulent and if I ever suspect others I will report them as well.
In certain countries, its a law you can stone people to death. The Law is on their side, why not let them do it?
chaos0xomega wrote: Ghaz, do you even read what I post? JSOC. The J stands for "joint", and unlike SEALs and Delta, CCTs deploy almost exclusively with units that *arent* part of the AF.
Beyond that, despite Manass being the only *base* in the vicinity of Afghanaland, the AF actually has quite a few remote outposts (the exact locations of which, as I understand it, are classified) that are used for SIGINT and air traffic control dotted throughout the region, usually only staffed by a handful of comm techs & radar operators and a small detachment of Security Force personnel. When I say remote, I really do mean * remote*, as in hours from the nearest FOB or Outpost, even by helo. I dont know if they are still there, but I know at least 1 of them was still in operation as of 18 months ago.
I read what you posted Chaos and mostly ignored it, not trying to be rude but I have a better understanding of whats going on then you do.
The AF has exactly Zero remote outposts in Afghanistan. They are limited to a few LARGE airbases and thats about it, they do have some guys that go out forward with the grunts for CAS but they never stay very long.
As a rule US OPs, FOBs and COPs are only classified when shown on a map with grids and such to keep the enemy from getting a pace count on the base. It is pretty easy for a bunch of Pastuns to figure out that those white guys living in the compound aren't from around here, so classifying an OP is only hurting our side. Hell I can show you Wiki pages for most of the FOBs, OPs and COPs I was on .
I was SIGINT, I had a TS clearance, I worked hand in hand with JSOC and Task force units in theater.
the kind of OPs you are talking about "Hours from the nearest FOB or Outpost, even by helo" those do exist but they are only used for extremely short periods of time. You don't leave small garrisons around because they will get over run. I would also love to know how you have info on a remote outpost operating 18 months ago, PM me the details and I can tell you if your friend is full of it or not .
I understand your point, you think its just a job and we signed up for it so why should we get more attention then you and your friends doing whatever you do. Regardless of what you think of the politics behind the wars we fight a lot of us signed up to SERVE our country, to shield our nation with our very lives if necessary. Yes we haven't been invaded since WWII but that doesn't change why we enlist. I have in the course of my enlistment and since then, run into a number of people who think that the only reason people join the military is because they are to stupid to get into college, wanted to steal from the government, wanted a place to live and all sorts of other demeaning and rude reasons. The fact is that this propagates a whole lot of problems that once led to how we treated our veterans of the Vietnam war. In the end you can think whatever the hell you would like of me. The law is on my side if he is fraudulent and if I ever suspect others I will report them as well.
In certain countries, its a law you can stone people to death. The Law is on their side, why not let them do it?
So your argument is, since this guy may have committed fraud and I informed the local PD, that other countries should be allowed to stone people to death.....And that makes sense because reasons? did you help right the Eldar codex?
Ghazkuul wrote: I understand what you mean though. But according to his resume and his comments on the T.V. show it isn't a case of a forward base but him actively saying he was in Afghanistan being a high speed operator for 9 years straight :p
I'll ask around. There may be some weird assed rule in the USAF that makes it technically true, even if it isn't what you or I might consider deployment in country. (Mihail Kogalniceanu (Romania) [which replaced Manass] and PSAB (Saudi Arabia) were also in theater, IIRC)
chaos0xomega wrote: Ghaz, do you even read what I post? JSOC. The J stands for "joint", and unlike SEALs and Delta, CCTs deploy almost exclusively with units that *arent* part of the AF.
Beyond that, despite Manass being the only *base* in the vicinity of Afghanaland, the AF actually has quite a few remote outposts (the exact locations of which, as I understand it, are classified) that are used for SIGINT and air traffic control dotted throughout the region, usually only staffed by a handful of comm techs & radar operators and a small detachment of Security Force personnel. When I say remote, I really do mean * remote*, as in hours from the nearest FOB or Outpost, even by helo. I dont know if they are still there, but I know at least 1 of them was still in operation as of 18 months ago.
I read what you posted Chaos and mostly ignored it, not trying to be rude but I have a better understanding of whats going on then you do.
The AF has exactly Zero remote outposts in Afghanistan. They are limited to a few LARGE airbases and thats about it, they do have some guys that go out forward with the grunts for CAS but they never stay very long.
As a rule US OPs, FOBs and COPs are only classified when shown on a map with grids and such to keep the enemy from getting a pace count on the base. It is pretty easy for a bunch of Pastuns to figure out that those white guys living in the compound aren't from around here, so classifying an OP is only hurting our side. Hell I can show you Wiki pages for most of the FOBs, OPs and COPs I was on .
I was SIGINT, I had a TS clearance, I worked hand in hand with JSOC and Task force units in theater.
the kind of OPs you are talking about "Hours from the nearest FOB or Outpost, even by helo" those do exist but they are only used for extremely short periods of time. You don't leave small garrisons around because they will get over run. I would also love to know how you have info on a remote outpost operating 18 months ago, PM me the details and I can tell you if your friend is full of it or not .
I understand your point, you think its just a job and we signed up for it so why should we get more attention then you and your friends doing whatever you do. Regardless of what you think of the politics behind the wars we fight a lot of us signed up to SERVE our country, to shield our nation with our very lives if necessary. Yes we haven't been invaded since WWII but that doesn't change why we enlist. I have in the course of my enlistment and since then, run into a number of people who think that the only reason people join the military is because they are to stupid to get into college, wanted to steal from the government, wanted a place to live and all sorts of other demeaning and rude reasons. The fact is that this propagates a whole lot of problems that once led to how we treated our veterans of the Vietnam war. In the end you can think whatever the hell you would like of me. The law is on my side if he is fraudulent and if I ever suspect others I will report them as well.
In certain countries, its a law you can stone people to death. The Law is on their side, why not let them do it?
So your argument is, since this guy may have committed fraud and I informed the local PD, that other countries should be allowed to stone people to death.....And that makes sense because reasons? did you help right the Eldar codex?
No, You say the law is one your side. The way things are =/= the things should be. Just because the law says it is right/wrong doesnt mean it actually is right/wrong. And you never answered my question
So the position of your argument hotsauce that I'm getting here is either
a) Ghaz has to support people getting stoned to death so that he can support wanting people to have to obey the law in this context
or b) Ghaz is a hypocrite for not supporting stoning while supporting people having to obey this law.
Unless there's something more to your argument, that's an incredible argument, you could divvy that up and keep England in stock for Guy Fawkes day for years to come.
motyak wrote: So the position of your argument hotsauce that I'm getting here is either
a) Ghaz has to support people getting stoned to death so that he can support wanting people to have to obey the law in this context
or b) Ghaz is a hypocrite for not supporting stoning while supporting people having to obey this law.
Unless there's something more to your argument, that's an incredible argument, you could divvy that up and keep England in stock for Guy Fawkes day for years to come.
Hotsauce, this is the point where you need to concede. Motyak hates me and he just defended me.
My point is that just because the law is on your side, doesnt mean the law is RIGHT.
Its that Stolen Valor is a law that was a stupid law that came up because of the veteran worship that seems to exist. it was a law created to placate people, while allowing others to be busy bodies and report other people for what MIGHT be a POSSIBLE tiny LIE.
hotsauceman1 wrote: My point is that just because the law is on your side, doesnt mean the law is RIGHT.
Its that Stolen Valor is a law that was a stupid law that came up because of the veteran worship that seems to exist. it was a law created to placate people, while allowing others to be busy bodies and report other people for what MIGHT be a POSSIBLE tiny LIE.
Im guessing you didn't read what I posted at all. Stolen valor is just a name given to a specific type of Fraud. It was already against the law, they just made a fancy name for it because it pissed off a lot of veterans.
And yeah, Fraud is wrong. What is your deal about "Veteran worship" Im actually confused by you, you have an actual hatred for military personnel and veterans and I don't get it.
Again, I do not hate Military personel. I hate how they they they need to be treated better then others, nay DEMAND they be treated better because their job is dangerous. Case in point, they demanded that a law for an existing crime be made because it made them upset. I hate veteran worship because it is used to shut down arguments such as this because "It makes them feel bad" and appeals to emotion.
No, You say the law is one your side. The way things are =/= the things should be. Just because the law says it is right/wrong doesnt mean it actually is right/wrong. And you never answered my question
Since you quoted a logical fallacy in part of your earlier arguments, here's another one: false equivalence. Your statement that Ghaz is wrong is based on the presumption that 1) the stolen valor law is "wrong" (and as an extra appeal to emotion you imply it's as wrong stoning people to death), and 2) that reporting a possible violation of the law to the authorities so that said authorities can assess the situation and deal with it as appropriate is equivalent to supporting any law regardless of right or wrong. Neither is a reasonable statement.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Again, I do not hate Military personel. I hate how they they they need to be treated better then others, nay DEMAND they be treated better because their job is dangerous. Case in point, they demanded that a law for an existing crime be made because it made them upset. I hate veteran worship because it is used to shut down arguments such as this because "It makes them feel bad" and appeals to emotion.
Regardless of your personal hatred for "Veteran Hero Worship" the fact remains that this guy very probably broke the law, a fact that you have debated with several veterans who know what they are talking about. So if the Stolen Valor act hadn't been enacted it would still be fraud and I still would have reported him, so how does a useless law change any of this?
hotsauceman1 wrote: On the flip side then, why was the law needed? IF it was still fraud, then why pass it, if other then, as your own words, to appease the veterans.
So politicians could garner votes of course, do you live in the United States? nothing a politician ever does is for any other reason then to gain votes.
Probably to appease the businesses and small business owners who have been taken advantage of?
Plus, from what I remember of the time period the SVA was enacted, there was actually more pressure from Right Wing, Conservative group types than there was from actual veterans.
Ensis Ferrae wrote: Plus, from what I remember of the time period the SVA was enacted, there was actually more pressure from Right Wing, Conservative group types than there was from actual veterans.
Which does make sense, at least to me. Real veteran soldiers don't usually make much noise about themself - my own grandfathers never talked about it (WW2). My old neighbor never talked about the war even if he was there together with my current employer's father (who also refused to talk about it). The wizened old veteran my dad used to take into town every day on his bus route spoke about his experiences exactly once. My friend's grandfather pretty much drank himself to sleep every day of his life after the war so he wouldn't see the faces of the people he killed with that Suomi SMG.
It's usually people who worship "heroes" that demand specific laws, not the veterans. I don't hate that, but I do think it's wrong for people who never saw war to wear necklaces, tattoos or whatever depicting the national symbol. Over here it's usually neonazis and the local version of rednecks that do it.
Ghazkuul wrote: So because its a type of Fraud that has a special name you think its terrible? So should we also change the name to just rape then for Statutory rape? Just because they are underage they think they are special and deserve a special name for their types of rape....... who cares about what it is called its fraud.
Statutory rape is a different crime, with a different list of things you need to prove to establish the case. With rape you need to prove that no consent was given. With statutory rape you need to prove the victim was under the legal age, and then prove some measure of standard that the alleged knew the victim was under the legal age.
Whereas stolen valour is no different to fraud in any way. You still have to prove the person made a fraudulent claim with the intent of receiving some kind of benefit.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
hotsauceman1 wrote: On the flip side then, why was the law needed? IF it was still fraud, then why pass it, if other then, as your own words, to appease the veterans.
The reason stolen valour exists in it's current, pointless form is because the much more powerful version previously created was struck down by the supreme court. In 2005 a version was passed that made fraudulently representating yourself as a veteran a crime, whether you were trying to get anything out of it or not. That was shot down as an infringement of freedom of speech, because of course it was.
But by that point there was momentum set up, and congress wanted a law about stolen valour that would pass the SC. So they write a new version that now required you to be making some kind of gain from the fraud. That this version was basically no different in any way to the existing fraud laws didn't seem to bother anyone involved.
chaos0xomega wrote: Ghaz, do you even read what I post? JSOC. The J stands for "joint", and unlike SEALs and Delta, CCTs deploy almost exclusively with units that *arent* part of the AF.
Beyond that, despite Manass being the only *base* in the vicinity of Afghanaland, the AF actually has quite a few remote outposts (the exact locations of which, as I understand it, are classified) that are used for SIGINT and air traffic control dotted throughout the region, usually only staffed by a handful of comm techs & radar operators and a small detachment of Security Force personnel. When I say remote, I really do mean * remote*, as in hours from the nearest FOB or Outpost, even by helo. I dont know if they are still there, but I know at least 1 of them was still in operation as of 18 months ago.
I read what you posted Chaos and mostly ignored it, not trying to be rude but I have a better understanding of whats going on then you do.
The AF has exactly Zero remote outposts in Afghanistan. They are limited to a few LARGE airbases and thats about it, they do have some guys that go out forward with the grunts for CAS but they never stay very long.
As a rule US OPs, FOBs and COPs are only classified when shown on a map with grids and such to keep the enemy from getting a pace count on the base. It is pretty easy for a bunch of Pastuns to figure out that those white guys living in the compound aren't from around here, so classifying an OP is only hurting our side. Hell I can show you Wiki pages for most of the FOBs, OPs and COPs I was on .
I was SIGINT, I had a TS clearance, I worked hand in hand with JSOC and Task force units in theater.
the kind of OPs you are talking about "Hours from the nearest FOB or Outpost, even by helo" those do exist but they are only used for extremely short periods of time. You don't leave small garrisons around because they will get over run. I would also love to know how you have info on a remote outpost operating 18 months ago, PM me the details and I can tell you if your friend is full of it or not .
I didnt say the existence of the base/outpost was classified, in fact there was a rather interesting article in the news (IIRC it wasn't in something like the New York Times, rather it was defense industry specific, I'm trying to relocate it but not having much luck) about it about 18 months ago (by my estimation, could be longer/shorter, caveat: I'm terrible at judging the length of time when it comes to past events), hence why I said "in operation as of 18 months ago", if I recall correctly they were in the process of shutting it down. I said its location was classified (even the reporter didn't know where it was, only that he/she had been taken there essentially blindfolded), one of those 'on a remote mountaintop in the Korangal valley' type affairs (not that it was on a mountaintop or in the korangal valley).
As for your credentials, all I will say is "if you say so". I dont know anyone with a clearance who would brag about it like you did (and you might say Im not a stranger to clearances), and I would think someone involved with SIGINT would know better than to broadcast it.
chaos0xomega wrote: Ghaz, do you even read what I post? JSOC. The J stands for "joint", and unlike SEALs and Delta, CCTs deploy almost exclusively with units that *arent* part of the AF.
Beyond that, despite Manass being the only *base* in the vicinity of Afghanaland, the AF actually has quite a few remote outposts (the exact locations of which, as I understand it, are classified) that are used for SIGINT and air traffic control dotted throughout the region, usually only staffed by a handful of comm techs & radar operators and a small detachment of Security Force personnel. When I say remote, I really do mean * remote*, as in hours from the nearest FOB or Outpost, even by helo. I dont know if they are still there, but I know at least 1 of them was still in operation as of 18 months ago.
I read what you posted Chaos and mostly ignored it, not trying to be rude but I have a better understanding of whats going on then you do.
The AF has exactly Zero remote outposts in Afghanistan. They are limited to a few LARGE airbases and thats about it, they do have some guys that go out forward with the grunts for CAS but they never stay very long.
As a rule US OPs, FOBs and COPs are only classified when shown on a map with grids and such to keep the enemy from getting a pace count on the base. It is pretty easy for a bunch of Pastuns to figure out that those white guys living in the compound aren't from around here, so classifying an OP is only hurting our side. Hell I can show you Wiki pages for most of the FOBs, OPs and COPs I was on .
I was SIGINT, I had a TS clearance, I worked hand in hand with JSOC and Task force units in theater.
the kind of OPs you are talking about "Hours from the nearest FOB or Outpost, even by helo" those do exist but they are only used for extremely short periods of time. You don't leave small garrisons around because they will get over run. I would also love to know how you have info on a remote outpost operating 18 months ago, PM me the details and I can tell you if your friend is full of it or not .
I didnt say the existence of the base/outpost was classified, in fact there was a rather interesting article in the news (IIRC it wasn't in something like the New York Times, rather it was defense industry specific, I'm trying to relocate it but not having much luck) about it about 18 months ago (by my estimation, could be longer/shorter, caveat: I'm terrible at judging the length of time when it comes to past events), hence why I said "in operation as of 18 months ago", if I recall correctly they were in the process of shutting it down. I said its location was classified (even the reporter didn't know where it was, only that he/she had been taken there essentially blindfolded), one of those 'on a remote mountaintop in the Korangal valley' type affairs (not that it was on a mountaintop or in the korangal valley).
As for your credentials, all I will say is "if you say so". I dont know anyone with a clearance who would brag about it like you did (and you might say Im not a stranger to clearances), and I would think someone involved with SIGINT would know better than to broadcast it.
I was also an SSO for the last year and a half that I was in the USMC im aware of what can and can not be said a lot more then your average analyst/operator.
chaos0xomega wrote: Ghaz, do you even read what I post? JSOC. The J stands for "joint", and unlike SEALs and Delta, CCTs deploy almost exclusively with units that *arent* part of the AF.
Beyond that, despite Manass being the only *base* in the vicinity of Afghanaland, the AF actually has quite a few remote outposts (the exact locations of which, as I understand it, are classified) that are used for SIGINT and air traffic control dotted throughout the region, usually only staffed by a handful of comm techs & radar operators and a small detachment of Security Force personnel. When I say remote, I really do mean * remote*, as in hours from the nearest FOB or Outpost, even by helo. I dont know if they are still there, but I know at least 1 of them was still in operation as of 18 months ago.
I read what you posted Chaos and mostly ignored it, not trying to be rude but I have a better understanding of whats going on then you do.
The AF has exactly Zero remote outposts in Afghanistan. They are limited to a few LARGE airbases and thats about it, they do have some guys that go out forward with the grunts for CAS but they never stay very long.
As a rule US OPs, FOBs and COPs are only classified when shown on a map with grids and such to keep the enemy from getting a pace count on the base. It is pretty easy for a bunch of Pastuns to figure out that those white guys living in the compound aren't from around here, so classifying an OP is only hurting our side. Hell I can show you Wiki pages for most of the FOBs, OPs and COPs I was on .
I was SIGINT, I had a TS clearance, I worked hand in hand with JSOC and Task force units in theater.
the kind of OPs you are talking about "Hours from the nearest FOB or Outpost, even by helo" those do exist but they are only used for extremely short periods of time. You don't leave small garrisons around because they will get over run. I would also love to know how you have info on a remote outpost operating 18 months ago, PM me the details and I can tell you if your friend is full of it or not .
I didnt say the existence of the base/outpost was classified, in fact there was a rather interesting article in the news (IIRC it wasn't in something like the New York Times, rather it was defense industry specific, I'm trying to relocate it but not having much luck) about it about 18 months ago (by my estimation, could be longer/shorter, caveat: I'm terrible at judging the length of time when it comes to past events), hence why I said "in operation as of 18 months ago", if I recall correctly they were in the process of shutting it down. I said its location was classified (even the reporter didn't know where it was, only that he/she had been taken there essentially blindfolded), one of those 'on a remote mountaintop in the Korangal valley' type affairs (not that it was on a mountaintop or in the korangal valley).
As for your credentials, all I will say is "if you say so". I dont know anyone with a clearance who would brag about it like you did (and you might say Im not a stranger to clearances), and I would think someone involved with SIGINT would know better than to broadcast it.
RC North of Afghanistan. Believe near Kumdaz(sp). AF has a Communication setup on top a damn peak. Only accessible by Hawks. Its like the highest damn peak in RC North to cover that region linking every comm gear and satellite connection known to US Military up in there
You won't being the article I believe your looking for contain pictures of the site and surrounding area. By photo's alone you can tell exactly where it is at. Also the equipment being used up there. Putin will shoot his favorite horse barechested just for 15 minutes up there unescorted.
Mind you the highest peak there they might not actually be on but a remote automated relay antenna setup to facilitate flow comms
If he lied to get benefits, then yes, that's illegal.
But otherwise, why does it matter?
If I found out that someone wearing a clown suit, walking around and telling people he's a clown isn't actually one, I wouldn't really be that bothered.
I doubt it counts as fraud unless he deceived his employers at the programme, and that's where his wages come from. They'll spin any embellishment on the TV show as artistic license or somesuch.
If I found out that someone wearing a clown suit, walking around and telling people he's a clown isn't actually one, I wouldn't really be that bothered.
Maybe not the best example. If you are wearing a Clown Suit, you are a Clown.
Jihadin wrote: You won't being the article I believe your looking for contain pictures of the site and surrounding area. By photo's alone you can tell exactly where it is at. Also the equipment being used up there. Putin will shoot his favorite horse barechested just for 15 minutes up there unescorted.
Mind you the highest peak there they might not actually be on but a remote automated relay antenna setup to facilitate flow comms
Im guessing by your response that you are aware of the article I am referencing, and that its been pulled for OPSEC purposes?
Ok, so we shouldn't report crimes if we think the law being broken is stupid? Well, I just killed a guy* for eating my sandwich. I think the murder being illegal is stupid. Even though some of you may disagree, I entrust that no one will call this in because my opinion is what should drive how things work, right?
Lord Corellia wrote: Ok, so we shouldn't report crimes if we think the law being broken is stupid? Well, I just killed a guy* for eating my sandwich. I think the murder being illegal is stupid. Even though some of you may disagree, I entrust that no one will call this in because my opinion is what should drive how things work, right?
I think this whole thing is going in circles atm. I'll go out on a limb though and say that if this guy committed a crime on TV, I'm willing to bet more service personnel saw it than just our merry band here on Dakka. So, let's all calm down.
I asked our resident airmen at work, and they said that, yes, it was possible he was forward deployed in the region that long, though his tales of what he did there were highly suspect, it was not actually impossible, due to some of the shenanigans going on with USAF deployments at the time Their theory, and this sort of meshes with my own, was that he was deployed at someplace like PSAB and they rotated him between the airbase and Afghanistan. Throw in the usual 'there I was', and mystery solved.
However, the truth will out eventually. If he's a fraud, then he'll get his name up on a wall of shame someplace.
If he lied to get benefits, then yes, that's illegal.
But otherwise, why does it matter?
If I found out that someone wearing a clown suit, walking around and telling people he's a clown isn't actually one, I wouldn't really be that bothered.
Not a lot of glory to steal.
Because if he is cutting real Veterans out of benefits that adds to the douche nature of his activities, if he really is doing the stolen valor thing.
Ashiraya wrote: No. If you are working as a clown or practicing the clown profession (even if unpaid), you are a clown.
For a better comparison, then, let's say a schoolbus driver.
If the impersonator was standing in line collecting handouts from the Schoolbus Driver's Union then you can rest assured that real bus drivers are going to have a problem with it.
Ashiraya wrote: No. If you are working as a clown or practicing the clown profession (even if unpaid), you are a clown.
For a better comparison, then, let's say a schoolbus driver.
If the impersonator was standing in line collecting handouts from the Schoolbus Driver's Union then you can rest assured that real bus drivers are going to have a problem with it.
If he lied to get benefits, then yes, that's illegal.
But otherwise, why does it matter?
If I found out that someone wearing a clown suit, walking around and telling people he's a clown isn't actually one, I wouldn't really be that bothered.
If the OP is such a big fan of the show, you do remember that Tia Torres is former military herself yeah?
Even if the guy is full of crap about being a badass SpecOps Ninja, she still would have gone out of her way to help him--or more importantly to her, his dog.
Well I also found his facebook page. Pretty sure it's him, lots of photos of the dogs. His "about me" says that during the time he claimed to be in Afghanistan he was working at Dewey's Pizza, and the St Vincent Hotel. Doesn't say anything about the USAF.
Chute82 wrote: The only thing that seems fishy in his resume is his hundreds of combat jumps. If he is talking about combat heavy jumps it could be legit. Combat heavy jump is at night with all your gear jumping for practice if the real thing ever happens. If he is talking about actual Combat jumps there has only been one done by the 75th Ranger Regiment in Afghanistan and that was in the beginning of the war.
He claimed 'into hostile territory'.
There have been other small insertions via parachute which since they were in Afghanistan could theoretically be considered combat jumps, but nowhere near 'hundreds'.
chaos0xomega wrote: Pretty sure thats him based on the work history only, but nothing else (photo/bio/present location) matches up?
The photo is the guy from the video, and the two dogs are the dogs from the video. In the video it said he used to live in New Orleans, that's why he needed his dogs transported cross country to Cali. That's him.
EDIT: He also has a new professional facebook page, so perhaps this one just isn't being updated.
Maybe you guys can find the video somewhere else. It's season 6 episode 13 "Saving each other".
Automatically Appended Next Post: Heh, people really aught to sort out their privacy settings before they lie on TV, found this gem looking through his posts: "Destroyed phone lost all my numbers trying to find some smoke anyone holding?"
So far his life story is:
Wayne High School Class of 1996 · Huber Heights, Ohio
Sinclair Community College Dayton, Ohio
St Vincent Hotel 2005 to 2008 · Dayton, Ohio
Dewey's Pizza
McCormick and Schmick's Chef · 2012 ~ 2013· Beavercreek, Ohio
From 2013 onwards, he has some posts about life in New Orleans, and then around 2014 he starts posting from LA. Don't see many that look like army buddies on his friends list, but he has quite a few friends from Dewey's pizza.
Not sure when during all that, he found time for 9 years in Afghanistan.
Lord Corellia wrote: Ok, so we shouldn't report crimes if we think the law being broken is stupid? Well, I just killed a guy* for eating my sandwich. I think the murder being illegal is stupid. Even though some of you may disagree, I entrust that no one will call this in because my opinion is what should drive how things work, right?
Um, yes. People have personal opinions on laws, and they don't get too fussed when people break laws they don't actually agree with.
If this really has you perplexed, consider that many people think laws against marijuana are wrong, and they won't report someone who's smoking it in their home.
Ensis Ferrae wrote: Dewey's must've opened a branch in the 'Stan... Pizza delivery on combat jump at a time!
Man! I laughed so hard, my drink came out my nose. The idea of him doing combat jumps into hostile territory to deliver pizza for Dewey's... Exalt, well earned!
chaos0xomega wrote: Pretty sure thats him based on the work history only, but nothing else (photo/bio/present location) matches up?
The photo is the guy from the video, and the two dogs are the dogs from the video. In the video it said he used to live in New Orleans, that's why he needed his dogs transported cross country to Cali. That's him.
EDIT: He also has a new professional facebook page, so perhaps this one just isn't being updated.
Maybe you guys can find the video somewhere else. It's season 6 episode 13 "Saving each other".
Automatically Appended Next Post: Heh, people really aught to sort out their privacy settings before they lie on TV, found this gem looking through his posts: "Destroyed phone lost all my numbers trying to find some smoke anyone holding?"
So far his life story is:
Wayne High School
Class of 1996 · Huber Heights, Ohio
Sinclair Community College
Dayton, Ohio
St Vincent Hotel
2005 to 2008 · Dayton, Ohio
Dewey's Pizza
McCormick and Schmick's
Chef · 2012 ~ 2013· Beavercreek, Ohio
From 2013 onwards, he has some posts about life in New Orleans, and then around 2014 he starts posting from LA. Don't see many that look like army buddies on his friends list, but he has quite a few friends from Dewey's pizza.
Not sure when during all that, he found time for 9 years in Afghanistan.
Yep that is the guy, so the evidence is now stacking up that he is in fact a donkey cave and might be guilty of fraud if the PD chooses to press the matter.
Maybe his 'jumps' are just an endearing term the drivers at his shop use for 'delivery run'. And as someone who once was a driver for Domino's, I can tell you 'hostile territory' accurately described one apartment complex I had to deliver to.
I've a feeling they had to Vet the guy though before they threw his dumb ass on television stating what he did. Whoever vetted him needs a caning
I don't know, people usually don't get "vetted" when they claim to be a vet . Case and point would be that scumbag who said he was a hero and went on the campaign trail with a bunch of candidates and made a bunch of speeches. only to be proven false later on. I wish I could remember that donkey cave's name.
d-usa wrote: With today's reality TV there is also always a chance that the producers themselves are the ones making up stories or faking things.
It did cross my mind that maybe he was just "acting" a vet, for the sake of entertainment, but then why also write about his service history on his professional profile?
d-usa wrote: With today's reality TV there is also always a chance that the producers themselves are the ones making up stories or faking things.
It did cross my mind that maybe he was just "acting" a vet, for the sake of entertainment, but then why also write about his service history on his professional profile?
It was more of a general statement about the industry in general, although in this particular case I would not be surprised if they knew he was a fake but went along because it made a nice story.
sebster wrote: Um, yes. People have personal opinions on laws, and they don't get too fussed when people break laws they don't actually agree with.
If this really has you perplexed, consider that many people think laws against marijuana are wrong, and they won't report someone who's smoking it in their home.
Fair, but I wouldn't really get mad at someone else for whistle blowing. Certainly not to the point of name-calling over the internet. It's their right.
chaos0xomega wrote: Well, he sure went pretty hard on the act then, I mean, claiming to be a PJ/CCT?
Most fake veterans tend to over exaggerate their accomplishments. It's what gets them caught. You never hear about a signal systems repair or heavy equipment operator stolen valor cases. It's always SF or PJ or Navy Seals with like, A BILLION medals.
chaos0xomega wrote: Well, he sure went pretty hard on the act then, I mean, claiming to be a PJ/CCT?
Most fake veterans tend to over exaggerate their accomplishments. It's what gets them caught. You never hear about a signal systems repair or heavy equipment operator stolen valor cases. It's always SF or PJ or Navy Seals with like, A BILLION medals.
Wah Waaaaa
This guy must have gotten knocked crosseyed by someone with a well calibrated BS detector.
Jihadin wrote: I've a feeling they had to Vet the guy though before they threw his dumb ass on television stating what he did. Whoever vetted him needs a caning
It's a reality show on basic cable. These shows exist because they are basically the cheapest thing you can put on the air and still be just entertaining enough that it won't make people get off their couch. It's very unlikely that they've got the staff to go about fact checking the stories they're told.
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Lord Corellia wrote: Fair, but I wouldn't really get mad at someone else for whistle blowing. Certainly not to the point of name-calling over the internet. It's their right.
Definitely. And that's all part of how it works, everyone gets to make up their own mind. If it doesn't bother you, then you don't do anything, if it does bother you then you do.
chaos0xomega wrote: Well, he sure went pretty hard on the act then, I mean, claiming to be a PJ/CCT?
Most fake veterans tend to over exaggerate their accomplishments. It's what gets them caught. You never hear about a signal systems repair or heavy equipment operator stolen valor cases. It's always SF or PJ or Navy Seals with like, A BILLION medals.
Pretty sure I remember reading that this guy committed suicide after this. Also, ironically, he was actually a Veteran, Airforce, got booted for drugs if i remember correctly.
Ive read a few stolen valor cases committed by actual veterans, they either claimed they were part of a different branch (navy guy pretending to be a mrine comes to mind) or awarded themselves rank and medals they didnt earn. The weird thing is, just like clueless civvies, they always show up with awards in the wrong spot or the incorrect ribbon order etc, and Im always like... wtf, you know better.
chaos0xomega wrote: Ive read a few stolen valor cases committed by actual veterans, they either claimed they were part of a different branch (navy guy pretending to be a mrine comes to mind) or awarded themselves rank and medals they didnt earn. The weird thing is, just like clueless civvies, they always show up with awards in the wrong spot or the incorrect ribbon order etc, and Im always like... wtf, you know better.
There was the Alabama (IRC??) guy running for state legislature that claimed he was a Green Beret. As it turned out, he was not tabbed SF, but was in a SOF unit during a period of time where everyone in the unit wore the green beret whether they were tabbed or not. (now, support people wear maroon berets due to being airborne, but only wear the green if they've earned it)
So while he wasn't literally lying about his service, but the "spirit" of what he said was untrue.
Pretty sure the guy above had some mental issues. Putting that aside, what I never understand is why these guys always seem to go so far with their "uniforms". As jingoistic as this country is, I'm pretty sure you could get the desired ego stroking just by dressing up as a normal, regular PFC and making the rounds at the food court or whatever, but no, they all have to be Audie Murphy.
Well in the eyes of the posers, nobody wants to feth the cook.
In reality, the jobniks got laid more than we did - they actually got leave to go to places where women frequent. The only women walking around company were the social worker (mishakit tash) and the company commander's secretary, and the waiting list for those two was a mile long.
Ouze wrote: Pretty sure the guy above had some mental issues. Putting that aside, what I never understand is why these guys always seem to go so far with their "uniforms". As jingoistic as this country is, I'm pretty sure you could get the desired ego stroking just by dressing up as a normal, regular PFC and making the rounds at the food court or whatever, but no, they all have to be Audie Murphy.
It might have started just with a low and fairly believable rank and service record, but once the thrill of that lie wore off they had to escalate the fantasy. It often isn't just about conning other people, but also about conning themselves.
In a sort of related thing, a girl I knew had Munchausen by proxy, claiming her child was sick because she wanted sympathy and attention. It started really mild, but by the end that kid had maybe four different terminal diseases.
I guess - I don't really have any insight into that mindset, the "I want some attention so look at my uniform" thing. To try and be clear, I'm not crapping on guys who served and are proud of it, but the service guys in my family and my friends that have served, it was job they did, and then they came home and did something else. The only friend I have who routinely brings up his veteran status is because a mule once fell on him over there and it's a pretty good story.
The mule is presumably also a USMC veteran but doesn't really talk much about it either as I understand.
Ouze wrote: I guess - I don't really have any insight into that mindset, the "I want some attention so look at my uniform" thing. To try and be clear, I'm not crapping on guys who served and are proud of it, but the service guys in my family and my friends that have served, it was job they did, and then they came home and did something else. The only friend I have who routinely brings up his veteran status is because a mule once fell on him over there and it's a pretty good story.
Yeah, I don't have a lot of insight either, outside of that one crazy story (which I only really heard through secondary sources), and some slightly crazy people I've come across on the internet.
And I should say that kind of start small and get bigger thing only works for people who are doing it for the ego hit, where there's fraud I've got absolutely no first hand experience.
The mule is presumably also a USMC veteran but doesn't really talk much about it either as I understand.
I heard the mule bragging it was on the team that killed Osama...
sebster wrote: And I should say that kind of start small and get bigger thing only works for people who are doing it for the ego hit, where there's fraud I've got absolutely no first hand experience.
Well, if you go for fraud you should always lie as much and boldly as possible for the big wins. People that ask to borrow a hundred and offer you a gold ring etc as security (in reality tin or something) only make a hundred minus the ring on that operation, someone pretending to be a big boss somewhere can manage to rack up a ton of hotel bills and other high-cost stuff before being forced to run.
As for the story telling some peope just seem to have a need for it, either some sort of Münchhaussen or other pathological liar thing. We had one of those guys at work once, and he really seemed to believe the stories he told us. He'd been a foreman in our line of work so ofc he knew everything (in reality he didn't even do the work he was supposed to do). Aye, he was studying Spanish so he could go to Barcelona and work as a harbor diver (in reality he didn't know a word of the language and someone as fat as he wouldn't be doing any diving job ever). Last I heard he was selling vacuum cleaners door-to-door.
Spetulhu wrote: Well, if you go for fraud you should always lie as much and boldly as possible for the big wins. People that ask to borrow a hundred and offer you a gold ring etc as security (in reality tin or something) only make a hundred minus the ring on that operation, someone pretending to be a big boss somewhere can manage to rack up a ton of hotel bills and other high-cost stuff before being forced to run.
As for the story telling some peope just seem to have a need for it, either some sort of Münchhaussen or other pathological liar thing. We had one of those guys at work once, and he really seemed to believe the stories he told us. He'd been a foreman in our line of work so ofc he knew everything (in reality he didn't even do the work he was supposed to do). Aye, he was studying Spanish so he could go to Barcelona and work as a harbor diver (in reality he didn't know a word of the language and someone as fat as he wouldn't be doing any diving job ever). Last I heard he was selling vacuum cleaners door-to-door.
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It's a good story, and some people just have to tell stories. Some of them are called pathological liers. We had one at work who even seemed to believe his own stories about his qualifications for this and that better job, but in the end he was just an overweight uneducated man. Foreman for airport security, harbor diver in Barcelona... Last I heard he was selling vacuum cleaners door-to-door.
Ofc, a few of these veteran impersonators claim they do it out of respect for the service. Maybe, possibly, if they don't use it to get free food or other benefits.
It was probably the same poster with a perfect example of how the truth gets twisted for sake of a better yarn.
So which was it Spethulu? Was he claiming to have been a Harbour diver in Barcelona or was he claiming that he was studying Spanish to be a Harbour Diver.
Alex Kolodotschko wrote: So which was it Spethulu? Was he claiming to have been a Harbour diver in Barcelona or was he claiming that he was studying Spanish to be a Harbour Diver.
Oh, the studying Spanish so he could go there and take the job. Funny how he didn't even manage to respond to common greetings in Spanish. I don't think he ever meant anything bad by telling stories, but if someone believed them he could potentially end up working somewhere way above his qualifications.
